He Played for England and Went to the Olympics But Nobody Knew He Was Suffering in Silence

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If you want to be grateful for all of the positive things in your life,
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you have to also be grateful for all of the negative things in your life.
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They both of them made you do you are.
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If you're happy with who you are, then you're happy with everything that made you do you are.
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And that's part of it.
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So I'm grateful that I went through depression and those low periods of time
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as much as I'm grateful for the incredible experiences of the highs I had.
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Those are highs and the lows.
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All of everything is important and everything has allowed me to come this far
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and hopefully go a lot further.
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There's a lot of peace in there isn't there?
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Yeah.
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Acceptance, owning it, knowing as part of your journey.
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No, for me personally, you have this one life that you're running.
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I just want to make the most of it and that's what have our landish ambitions and dreams
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and why have millions of businesses and try to go down these different paths
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and try to do these crazy things because I'm just saying why not?
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Because you know, you never know when your time's up.
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The one thing that we have no control over is our time.
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You know, we know that it's going to run out at some point.
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We don't know when.
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So, you know, just I just start to make the most of all of it.
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Every man carries something.
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Expectations, silence, struggles, the way of having to look unbreakable.
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The dad project is a home for real unfiltered conversations on men's mental health,
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the kind that have been missing for far too long.
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We share powerful stories and raw perspectives from those living it
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and those guiding men through it.
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Filmed at the old court in Windsor, it's about breaking silence, reshaping strength
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and creating conversations that actually matter.
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I'm your host, Nehrupp Judy.
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Let's talk.
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Marvin, thank you for coming on the dad project podcast.
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Thanks for having me.
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Before we talk about football or mental health, tell me who is Marvin on a quiet morning
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when no one needs anything for me.
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That doesn't exist.
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Everyone always needs something for me.
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It feels like, whatever is my kids,
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when in everything, you know, this morning it was not even just breakfast,
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like breakfast and helping get ready and all that stuff is just normal,
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but like, someone is played in Nerf guns.
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Like, half seven, I was like, it's just no, it's too early for that.
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It is a challenge in the morning, isn't it?
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Yeah, I mean, you know, I've got the balance of,
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I'm trying to, I try to balance.
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When I haven't got my kids, I try to balance,
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getting enough sleep and rest,
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with getting up early enough that I can have my own time.
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Which is tricky, I don't really get them.
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I'd be, you know, you have to give something, you have to give up something,
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and my time is the thing that I'd probably give up more than anything.
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But that time with the children is special.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Something that's non-negotiable, right?
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Yeah, I mean, you know, as I was saying to you just before, that off camera,
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but I have my kids for a week and I know with them on for a week,
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so I have the best of words in a way that I get, you know,
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me time for an extended period of time.
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And then I get, you know, just my time with them,
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for an extended period of time, which is great, is me,
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structure, routine, and for them as well, as well as like, you know, just
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making sure that I'm organised, and I have to be organised,
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I'm lucky, I'm a very organised person,
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because otherwise my life would have been into chaos very quickly.
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What does me time mean for you?
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You said that a few times, me time, what does that mean?
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This is when no one wants me, which is, you know,
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again, it's not something I have much luxury of,
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but it could be just going to the gym, having an hour where I'm just
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listening to music where I could be at home watching a film or a series TV,
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watching football, cooking, which I love to do.
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Just a period of time where I'm disturbed by people wanting something,
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and, you know, that's, I've put myself into this position,
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like the nature of life I live in terms of, I have two kids,
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so they want everything, they want the whole world for me,
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and that's fine, and like, give them the whole world as much as I can.
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And I have three businesses, and they take a lot of time, so that's,
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you know, one business is enough, but like,
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juggling and threes, like dancing from one to the other,
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and also trying to create new opportunities within all of those,
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and outside of that, that's things I do as well, so,
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you know, like I said, time is a thing that I have,
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you know, everyone has to give up something to be successful in some capacity.
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I want to be successful, and time, I know is a thing that I have to give up,
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and me time is probably the main thing, you know.
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You've mentioned giving up quite a lot, even in this first five minutes,
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this idea of sacrifice,
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compromise, you know, you can't have it all.
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So when you started as a young boy playing football,
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what did you have to compromise and sacrifice to get the level
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where you got to within sport?
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I'd love to know about your journey within it,
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because I think becoming a footballer and a professional footballer
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is most people's dreams, especially young boys dreams.
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Yeah.
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I'd like to know about the mindset and what you had to do to get to that place.
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The thing is I didn't realise what I was doing at the time.
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It's only, it's probably only really, really in the last like
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five or so years, really, when I'm spoken about my path into football.
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And people have spoken to about it and all that.
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It doesn't sound like, yes, regular people do, and I just fall world.
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It's just what I had to do, you know what I mean?
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Because I was very focused on very early on.
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I said from six, seven years old that I want to be a professional footballer today.
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It doesn't just happen, you know, you don't just wake up and just be a professional footballer.
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That's not possible.
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You have to work hard, even if you are very talented and if you are like this world talented.
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I wasn't out of this world talented so I had to work harder.
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You know, so for me it was just about practicing and I practiced all the time.
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And it's not just, there's a difference between just playing football as a kick and practicing.
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Yeah, yeah, I was working on specific things all the time.
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When I say it was done, I mean literally every single day.
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If I wasn't actually going to train in, then every single other day, I would practice something,
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where there was my touch, half-foldies, my left foot, quick feet, whatever it was,
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where it's going on runs to try and get fitter because I was very unfit when I was especially when I was young.
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And you just have to do that all the time.
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There's no guarantee of a reward at the end of it.
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You just have to do it and it's the same as the performance now.
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You just have to do it.
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If you want to be successful or anything, you just have to do it and do it and do it and do it and do it.
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And hope also as well, like you get some fortune along the way,
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opportunity, but the hard you work, the luck you get.
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I read this quote recently which said,
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courage is jumping in with both feet, not knowing what the outcome could be.
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And it feels like that's a philosophy you've adopted because you're working, you're working,
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you don't know if you're going to get it, but I'm just going to do it anyway.
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Yeah.
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Where do you think that comes from?
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It sounds crazy.
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But where did that come from?
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That courage from such a young age?
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Was it something that I was instilled with you from?
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People you saw around you or was it something this in building?
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So I'm just going to do this.
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I think it's just, I genuinely don't know any other way.
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And it's like I said, everything I've been through on my path to becoming a football player
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is, it feels very similar to what I'm doing now in all of the different career pass business
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pass wherever I want to call them.
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I don't know any different, genuinely.
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I only know what if I only know, let's see, and I only know, let's give it a go.
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The outcome is the outcome, but really, and truly, you can only firl if you stop.
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When you were young, came football, you got into the full and
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youth team.
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What did that feel like at such a young age having that first win?
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Because it came very quickly after my first loss in a sense,
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I say, because I went on trial to Chelsea before that, and I didn't get in.
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I wasn't necessarily, that wasn't like devastated or anything like that,
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because I didn't think I was going to get signed anyway.
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I went on trial and I was like, I need to just learn as much as possible.
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I've got six weeks to get better, play with very, very good players,
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get coached by very good coaches, and playing as high quality opposition on a regular basis
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for this period of time. So, absorb as much as that, and leave it in a better position for the
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next one, and the next one I'll get, that's how I thought, like, you know, genuinely, my mom and I
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spoke quite extensively throughout the process of like, hey, how are we going to get to make sure
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that the next one is the one that gets signed, because I didn't think I was going to have that,
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it was going to happen. So it didn't get signed, went to full and within a week I got signed,
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and, you know, it felt great, but then as I've found the journey and continuously with the football
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journey, it's like getting, it's like trying to jump onto the ladder, you get the ladder,
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you, you cling on and you get your step on there, and it's like, right now, and he's actually
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climbing this. Yeah. So what feels like a win is just like the very beginning.
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Did you enjoy that? Did you enjoy the climb? Was it, was it fun, starting and then working
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your way out? It elements and points is fun for sure. It's more fun and enjoyable to look back on.
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Then I'd say it was all of those steps. It's a lot pressurized, a lot stress you put, you put
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that on yourself, place it upon you. They're an incredible amount of doubts from internally and
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externally, which is just, you know, that's part of life and but part of football as well, because
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it's a very eye-pressure environment where lots of people want to be in it, lots of people want
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to be successful, most people are not. No, that's the reality of it. So you have to be so thick
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skinned and so determined that failure just becomes part of your DNA. You just become so accustomed
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to failure. So in a way, like, okay, with failure, that, you know, you can just write it out and
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just keep going forward, you know. But do you think a lot of these young boys who get into football
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who face the failure, do you think they're equipped to write it out? So I think we say this is write
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it out. But what does that really mean? Are we even processing the failure? Do we understand what
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it means not to achieve? Are these football clubs and people, are even boys at a young age
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being nurtured in a way to help them understand that it's not their fault? Are they haven't
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preceded the next stage? It's difficult because in a way, you haven't got a choice
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but to get used to failure. To be successful, and I generally think in any industry, in any field,
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in any profession, failure is just a part of it. Failure is a part of success. And I think
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people who learn that and understand that quickly have a quicker route to success. And it's just
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like, right, I'm just going to fail, learn, fail, learn, fail, learn. And you just continue seeing me
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forward. And when failure slows you down or stops you and it becomes heavy, then it slows your
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progress. And it happened to me as well, like, you know, later done line in my career where where
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failure felt heavier than it had been. And maybe it just was just past failure as well,
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catching up on me. And I hadn't necessarily addressed it. But, you know, it's a part of life.
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You know, you're not going to succeed it. You're not going to succeed it's in like, you're not
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going to win all the time. Everything's going to be perfect. And like failing football looks
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like so many different things could be a bad touch, a bad shot, being in the wrong position,
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making a mistake, as well as those are the small things that are not like being dropped,
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being released, you know, getting injured, you know, these are things that are just part of it. And
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you have to get comfortable just with the fact that that is a part of it, you know.
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I find it must be challenging for a lot of these guys who pin their hopes on something.
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Right? Because if they get it, it's so big. The award is amazing, right? Fame, money, whatever
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they could want, status, respect. But then if they don't get it, then what would that life be?
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Right? Yeah. I think that's a hard thing to try to come to terms with because if you study for
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something at university, and you're going to be a doctor, something, you know, you thought you
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were going to have a job as a doctor or you can probably do something associated with medicine.
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Right? But when you want to be a top footballer, and you can't, and then you'll be able to actually
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football is no longer an option for me. I guess I could be a trainer, I could be a coach,
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but that goal has been taken away for you now. You've got to find something else which probably
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could also not be relevant at all. That's a hard pill to swallow, isn't it?
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It is, but I think we have, yeah, I never discourage young people to dream because I think
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the ability to dream is such an important thing for everyone. And, you know, as adults, most adults
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don't dream. I still dream as just like I'm a child, I have completely unrealistic ambitions
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and expectations that things that excite me and things that, you know, make me go again, what if,
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but we do have, you know, on flip side, we do have unrealistic expectations and that
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everyone wants to be messier than other and not thinking about, you know, there's tens of
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thousands, hundreds of thousands, probably jobs within football, which are all incredible opportunities,
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and all give everyone probably the same to an extent, the same level of the
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fulfillment of being an industry as a football player. But it's just like, we're not, it's just like
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win the lottery or bust, you know, and it's like, well, just because you didn't win the jackpot,
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there's all these other things that, you know, you win everything with other level beneath.
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So, I think that's, that's probably a bit of an issue in that people
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want to only be the top of the top of the top. And like, that's, it's just, it is just, I'm
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releasing because it just doesn't, it just doesn't happen. Like, from a numbers perspective,
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it's just not not possible. Listen to your story reminds me when I used to, when I was younger,
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I used to love basketball. This is what all the Michael Jordan videos come fly with me,
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all this stuff, right? And he talks about when he didn't make the cut for the team, and then he
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just double down outward, anyone, everyone around him. And I think that instilled in me this desire
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that if you want to be the best, you've got to do double triple, everyone else is doing around you.
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And yes, there is the element of talent. And Michael Jordan's case, he was tall. If he was five
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or four, he wouldn't be a basketball player, right? But do you think success in life and in football
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is purely about who can work the hardest? Or is there the element that you actually have to have
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certain elements about you, certain things about you qualities, which make you good for whatever
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you're endeavor could be? Because I'm like you, I think people should dream. I'm exactly the same.
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My goals are unrealistic to some people. But when they align with what you are naturally good at,
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then you can see the path to go towards it. If I said now, I want to be, you know, a top snooker player,
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it's probably not going to happen, right? I'm 44, like, how much time can I put into it? All these things.
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So is it just like working hard? Or is it you actually got to have those seeds of talent,
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the natural ability first? Yeah, I think seeds of talent, you know, but
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in any end of the day talent comes from most, if you look at most industries, the most talent is
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you talk about natural levels of technique and understanding. These are things that you can learn,
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you can get technically better anything, you know, whether it is snooker or football, you can get
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technically better. It just depends on how quickly you pick it up, how hard you work on it and how
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much you want to improve and improve and improve and improve. So you can work very, very, very hard.
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Will you enjoy it? Maybe not, you know, but then and also will you then get the reward at the end?
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Maybe not. That comes down to your mindset, really, because there's no guarantee for anything,
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none of us are entitled to anything in this world. So it is purely down to
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how hard you work and how determined you are, because you can be, you can work hard, but then if
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you're not as determined and, you know, so you work hard for a period of time, but it's like,
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there is no period of time that you're going to be rewarded. Maybe it's never, maybe it's
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a year, maybe it's six months, maybe it's two days. Who knows?
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You awards paid off, because from full of me moved to Watford.
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Yeah, well, I got released from for them.
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I got released from for them. So in a way, my reward didn't pay off because,
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you know, and I was a failure in a way, because I got released, I didn't get off of the scholarship.
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Right. And so it was like back to the drawing board, and I could have easily gone, this is hard.
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Okay. This isn't working, but, you know, something to like just say, like, double down.
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I was like, okay, I need to, clearly, I need to work a lot harder again.
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Okay, so that's a really interesting point of your life, because you were still young, right?
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Yeah. How old are you then at that time?
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Sixty. That's a little fresher, right? To then think, okay, I'm going to keep going.
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Will there people around you who encourage you, family, friends? What was it like at that time
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to think, okay, I've been released? Maybe I can't, I'm not good enough. Talk to people about the
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mindset and your mental health at that stage. I mean, at the time as well, I feel I'm feeling
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had a, had a big first team squad, a big reserve squad, and a big, under 18 squad. So I didn't
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actually see a pathway to the first team for me anyway. So I was actually quite relieved that I
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didn't get off of it. They didn't think I was good enough. It's not like, I walked away,
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like, they didn't think I was good enough, which is fine. But I was glad that they didn't think
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that because I didn't want to stay there. I wanted to try and find a way that I could get
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create my own pathway into a first team within a few years. So I end up going to think
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what exit trials, which is every player in the country, at that age, is released from
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academy, but from professional clubs. It gets your option, by the way, not even don't have to,
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but get the option to go and play in a trial game across country. That's three of them.
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Three different dates. I just did go and play in all of them. I want to play in front of as many
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people as many people see me as possible. I didn't have anxiety, which some people did,
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which I can understand is like, it's literally like last chance to lose. Are you going to play
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60 minutes of football, and then people decide whether you're probably going to have a career or not.
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That's a lot of pressure. I was just like, well, this is it. So everything's on the line now,
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so let's get it. And you know, fortunately for me, I did quite well. And then what would
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came up and I ended up signing there and I got scholarship, but even that didn't go to where
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to start. Like, as an under 16, I was like, I signed just before my scholarship.
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Like I was playing up in the under 80s, quite a bit playing a lot football. And then I went into
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full-time as a scholar my first year. And I didn't really play much football at all. And I didn't
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do well. I don't adapt well to being full-time like the the jump from being at school training
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three evenings a week to training every day physically. It was a lot emotionally. It was a lot.
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And I really struggled and I didn't enjoy it at all. And years later, I found out that I almost
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got released as a first year, which never happens. But you have two year scholarly, like everyone
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gets challenged, but they were like, I've worked from what I've heard. The club were a bit like,
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there's no point in being here for these. He doesn't, he's not giving enough. And you don't really
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see anything more. What was it that you didn't enjoy exactly? Because it sounds like you've got what
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you, what after? What was it that was in Jennings? It was tough. I wasn't enjoying football.
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I wasn't really playing much football. And obviously the best thing that I was a player,
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like you want to be playing. You don't have freedom when you're playing. I didn't feel like I had
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freedom. I didn't feel like I was playing football very like, you know, very, you have to do this,
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exactly like this, exactly like this. And obviously, you know, that's professional football,
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what's a job? You know, you're there to even from that age, you're like, you're taught,
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you need to do certain things so that you can win games of football. That's all that matters.
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Doesn't matter. Your enjoyment is secondary. This is your job now. And I think that
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shifting mentality mindset and professionalism understanding was difficult for me. And when I
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played that first, it was just like, okay, I don't actually enjoy this so much anymore. And then
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you know, later down the line, I managed to find, you know, like very soon down the line,
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I managed to find balance in that. But that's why it was very tough. How did you find balance?
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Well, in the summer, I went away. So the increase in the offseason, I was like, okay,
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this is it now. You're even going to have a career in football. You're not like,
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this summer's going to determine that. And again, spoke with my mom quite a bit about it.
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It looks myself in the mirror. I'm just like, hey, you keep saying that you want this,
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you have to go and get it. You have to make it, you have to make it happen. So,
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I work very, very hard on, you know, the things that they wanted,
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particular to see as it being very fit, you know, very determined, just in simple,
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just in very simple terms. And then just take on board a lot of that information in terms of
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tactically and all that stuff and give away some of the freedom and stuff that in which way I
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wanted to just play my football in my way. I was just like, you're always not going to work.
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You know, I was like, okay, my way's not going to work then. And I want this in the end of day,
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that's the way to get it. So, you know, that's kind of just give that away in a bit and
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wherever game balance is later down the line when you start, when I broke into the first team,
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playing a lot of games and doing well, I can get that freedom back because I'm, you know,
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I'm a young player, I'm playing in the first scene. So, I can give people and give that side kind of
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like what they want in the sense of how they want me to play into some extent. And then I can also
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have my elements of my freedom. And it's okay because I was doing well. So, you have to adapt
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and relearn how to be part of a guest of this of the team, right? And a system. So,
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something that you adopt now and the way you run your businesses because we would want stuff
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and life to work a certain way, but it doesn't always go how we want it. We have to adapt and learn
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what it gets and evolve. And the people who do that, the quickest and the best of the ones who
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move forward and are successful. Like, that's just, you know, we've got again, regardless of what
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industry or what line of work or profession you're in. Like the same principles apply that
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if you work hard your adapt, you don't mind failing. And because, you know, to adapt and to evolve,
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you have to fail to understand in which way you evolve. And you might not fail, but
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if you're going to continuously evolve and continue to say that, you're going to fail because
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that's what teaches you how to adapt where to adapt and how to evolve. So,
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it's exactly the same principles that apply yet. So, from Bobford, your career really
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gets took off. I did well at Bobford, then you moved to Bolton, Wunderers, did really well.
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What I find really interesting what your story is when you were at, I guess, your peak,
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28 years old, doing really well, the pressure got a lot and you just didn't enjoy it. You wanted
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to change. I think, and I'm really intrigued myself, when you have all that from the outside
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and people looking and thinking, you've worked hard, all the practice you've put in, all the time
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you've put in, you got it now, dude. But what was it that people weren't seeing in your life?
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I mean, some of the worst plots of my life are at my highest point. You know, when I moved to
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Bolton, you know, Premier League, I was paying for England under Sony Ones at a time and went to
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the Olympics obviously with Team GB. I massively suffered with the pressure around that time and
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didn't understand it, understand why. I didn't understand mental health with the pressure
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until we, that was 21. I ended up going to therapy, I went to CS Psychologist and
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because she, and I said the exact same thing, I was like, it doesn't make sense. This is everything
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I've dreamed of. And she's like, well, what people don't realise is that, you know, we deal with,
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we're accustomed to dealing with failure, but we're not accustomed to dealing with success.
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Like there's a million books out there about how to deal with failure, but I'm really
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much out there that teach you to deal success. Success is this great thing, but you still have to
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manage it, like anything else or something. It's a big thing that happens in your life. And
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you said that it's common, very, very common that people who essentially gain a lot of success
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in a small period of time or reach their goals, their dreams, then start to have this kind of mental
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spiral because we're almost like, we're, we're problem solving things. And so when the, you know,
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these big things that are happening, like I need to do this to get to there, that's, that's our
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big problems that we're trying to solve on a daily basis in work in life, you know, where it's family
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or etc. And when those problems kind of go away, then we look deeper for other problems.
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Okay, because we need to solve those, we need to solve something because that's what we do.
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And, you know, you dig deeper and deeper and deeper, and then you get to things from
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your childhood that you may have suppressed or, or other elements of life. And then things just
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come rushing to the surface very quickly. And that was the case. For me, obviously, it took
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I was in therapy for many, many years on and off, but it took a long time of understanding to,
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to for me to be like, okay, this is why, you know, for all of these things, these emotions and stuff.
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When I got to 28 and I was like, I'd been through a long journey of, of mixed emotions, a lot of
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change. And, you know, I think I was, I just was not really in a good place. And, like, emotionally
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at all, physically, I didn't, I physically it was telling because I felt drained all the time.
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And, you know, I just knew that I couldn't continue doing like doing this. And I was like, I love football,
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I love playing football. And, you know, something that I've always loved. And I want to continue loving it.
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But right now I don't love it. So, I've done a lot of things, I've changed a lot of things,
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where it's club, circumstance, whatever it may be. The common denominator here is that
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this industry as a player just doesn't work for me. No, it's not, it's not positive for me.
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So, that's the thing that needed to change. And so, I made a decision and, you know, I've not
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looked back since really. It's not something I've, obviously people ask me like, do you regret it?
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I'm like, no, because even when I made a decision, I, I looked back and I was like, well, I've
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done so much more than I ever dreamed I would have done. I've achieved a lot of things that, you know,
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if someone told me that the kid, like, I do this, I'm like, wow, no, there's no way. So, I left
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very fulfilled, which is the most important thing because I was close to retiring when I was,
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I was like 23. I was close to retiring then because I was just, I had enough.
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I find that really fascinating, man. I appreciate you being so open about it because
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we don't talk about people at elite levels having therapy to deal with success, right? I have some,
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I've experienced success with my brother, my brother's a well-famous singer, right? So, I can see
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what it's like to have money, fame, success. But, I guess I only glimpse it from the outside,
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even as his brother, I just see when he's on stage, when he's happy with his kids, I'm not with him
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because he lives in New York when time is might be tough. Like, drink COVID, when no one's booking
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anyone for gigs. What does it feel like when you've had it all and you're trying to manage that?
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Nothing as, like you said, it's not really spoken about. When you were, when you were having,
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when you go for that time, you're having that therapy, will you talk into anybody about it?
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Were you sharing those feelings? Really, because if someone now who's paying the
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Premier League was saying, I mean, maybe it's like different, it's like different time when
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people are a bit more receptive and open to mental health, but like Premier League football player,
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something with mental health people go, I'm everywhere. You know, unfortunately that's just the,
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the world that we live in inside your, if you have, and people don't have, they just go,
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well, why do you, what do you have to be upset about? But it's obviously a lot deeper than that,
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and you know, you can have all the money in the world and you could still not be happy.
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Money doesn't quite happen as well. I think a lot of people say that, and I think it's true,
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it's hard for people who haven't experienced money and wealth understand why it would not create
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your happiness. Yeah, but what is it? What is it that would at that time have helped you to feel better?
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What would it, what would it have been? Was it a sense of meaning outside of football as well?
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Was it, if it football wasn't everything that you're doing, you could have had something else to
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shift some emotions and find happiness in different places. What was it, would you say?
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I think I just felt a bit lost at the time, like, in myself, and then,
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you know, you, as a football player, especially your tribute, or your self-worth to
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our world you're playing. And if you're not playing, if you're not playing well, then you genuinely feel
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like you're worthless for everybody and to everything. And, you know, for me, that was the case
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because I wasn't playing, I wasn't necessarily playing well. I was getting, you know, stick from
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fans and we got relegated and just continued and I was just like, I'm a failure, I've let everyone
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down, I've let my fans on them, my family, my friends down. And you just feel like every single moment,
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so heavy to carry. I can imagine how heavy it is, because I know how it feels like if I haven't
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shown up right from my door, or if something with work happens and we get feedback, which isn't
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what I wanted. I hold that weight, even though I try to process it and say to myself, it's not
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the end of the world. You feel it. And I also think about when, when there's these big world cups
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and championships and the guy who misses a penalty. Now the whole nation's hopes
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relied on that one kick and it didn't go in the ball didn't go in. How does that, what does that
400
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:52.800
man do when he goes back home? How did you handle pressure like that? What were the systems?
401
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:59.520
You're going to sit there and you eat your, it eats away at you, you know, like this, you know,
402
00:33:59.520 --> 00:34:04.080
I didn't play in big games like that to that extent, but like, he was just a normal game,
403
00:34:04.080 --> 00:34:08.720
like, miss a penalty and this is like, don't sleep for days, because he's just keep thinking about
404
00:34:08.720 --> 00:34:12.960
it, like, miss a chance. And if you don't win, you just think about it and it's just replacing
405
00:34:13.040 --> 00:34:18.240
your mind over and over and over and over and over and over. It's just, and I think that's
406
00:34:19.120 --> 00:34:26.640
probably every football player or the majority I would say, go through that, which is insane,
407
00:34:26.640 --> 00:34:33.200
but then you just hope to, you know, you just hope to make up for it in a way with having good
408
00:34:33.200 --> 00:34:38.400
moments and stuff, but that's just, I don't know that, I think that's just part of it.
409
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:44.720
Because what I think when people look at people in sports, someone misses a penalty or someone
410
00:34:44.720 --> 00:34:48.720
loses a boxing match, otherwise, they're still getting paid, you know, 10 million for it. And then
411
00:34:48.720 --> 00:34:53.440
you think they never got into the sport just to make money. They got into sport because they love
412
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:59.600
what they do. So if you now take away the win, their purpose and say, here's a right, here's some cash.
413
00:35:00.640 --> 00:35:06.320
It's not filling the size of the, the meaning is not there, right? The purpose is to win,
414
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:10.800
to do the best they can. They haven't, but we think we can substitute money and material
415
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:17.040
things as a way to compensate. I don't think it's fair. It just, that's just not the case.
416
00:35:17.040 --> 00:35:22.480
Yeah. Just like, you know, anyone can think that, but I know that's not the case. You can see any,
417
00:35:24.080 --> 00:35:30.240
even if you've watched, you know, you just see people's body language after in my
418
00:35:30.240 --> 00:35:37.680
miscellency or something, how that eats away at them, you know, they just can look and feel
419
00:35:37.680 --> 00:35:43.040
and seem completely deflated. That's how it is, you know, it just, it just takes everything out of you.
420
00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:49.920
Like I said, I don't know that thing. That's just a parcel of, you know, any sport really because
421
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:56.880
there's such highs and such lows. The football clubs offer support for players when
422
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:03.200
they've had a loss or is it you won your own? I mean, every football club is different. Like,
423
00:36:03.200 --> 00:36:10.960
football is a very broad industry. It's not like an industry wide thing where, you know, mental
424
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:20.800
health or psychology is just a topic or a part of it. Every club might have, some clubs might
425
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:25.120
have their own and have their own philosophies and thought processes of how they manage and deal
426
00:36:25.120 --> 00:36:30.960
with things in terms of well-being, mental health, but in psychology, but some just won't have
427
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:37.280
anything. It's just, you know, it comes down to who's in charge, manager, the, you know, the board,
428
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:45.280
maybe, or the directors or, or, and if they have, like, personal experiences, they care about it,
429
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:49.280
and they think it's important to make sure that these things are in place. Some that might not,
430
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:52.880
might want to, they don't have a budget, some just don't care about it. You know, they just
431
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:56.080
think it's not their issue. They just need to deal with full matters.
432
00:36:57.200 --> 00:37:02.560
Do you think that's where good manager comes into play? Because if someone did something on my team
433
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:08.160
that they weren't meant to do or didn't hold up to the level that I wanted them to,
434
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:14.640
I wouldn't punish them. I would probably let them know, look, it's okay. It's stuff happened
435
00:37:14.640 --> 00:37:19.440
like this. Next time we'll nail it. Giving them that trust that they're not being penalized,
436
00:37:19.520 --> 00:37:24.960
but actually the person in charge is showing more trust than them. I think we'll make them
437
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:30.000
perform better next time because you could easily say, what the hell man? Like, you fluffed it,
438
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.320
this happened. That happened, but if you show trust and compassion and understand we're only
439
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:38.000
human, I think next time you're probably going to get the best out of them. Does that happen
440
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:42.400
in football? It manages. Sometimes I'm like, you get different types of managers. So many
441
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:46.560
doing business, you know, you get people who like to shout and scream and people who like to
442
00:37:47.520 --> 00:37:52.480
ignore and get people to call shoulder, people who are very like hands on and are very like
443
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:58.880
arm over the shoulder. It just depends on their personality, their manager or style. I think
444
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:04.000
in the end of the day football is no different to any other industry. You're dealing with people
445
00:38:05.040 --> 00:38:09.120
and the people you're dealing with, you're trying to get the best out of them to perform. It's
446
00:38:09.120 --> 00:38:15.920
best of their abilities and everybody needs to be managed very differently. So if you're
447
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:23.680
managing, you only have one type of style in the way you approach managing people, then you're
448
00:38:23.680 --> 00:38:29.680
probably not going to be that successful. I don't think I think you need to be able to adapt and
449
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:34.560
find ways to motivate the individuals as well as the collective as a whole.
450
00:38:35.520 --> 00:38:42.640
So in 2013, all this pressure really blew up for you, right? And you attempt to take your life.
451
00:38:45.680 --> 00:38:49.920
Tell me about that time, man. Talk to me about that period. What was going through your mind?
452
00:38:50.560 --> 00:38:56.560
What happened? How you got through it? I'd love to hear some stuff.
453
00:38:56.560 --> 00:39:04.000
I mean, it was just a very heavy period of time. I was actually on an anti-depressant at the time,
454
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:09.120
which I don't necessarily think those were the right ones for me, because I think you can get
455
00:39:09.120 --> 00:39:14.080
loads of different types of anti-depressants. I felt very numb. So my emotions were very
456
00:39:15.520 --> 00:39:22.640
limited in like I didn't have a highs at all. And the lows weren't as low, but I just felt like a
457
00:39:22.640 --> 00:39:32.640
constant numbness, which you know, it just didn't feel great as well as the fact that I felt like
458
00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:40.880
my career was slipping away from me, which made me feel more of a failure. So it was like a lot of
459
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:49.760
things and then dealing with like this success that happened very quickly, all of the emotion that
460
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:54.960
would that came around that and then the, you know, traumas from my childhood and past that come
461
00:39:54.960 --> 00:40:00.320
up. And then on top of that, things slipping away and feeling like I was failing in football,
462
00:40:01.040 --> 00:40:05.120
they're not really playing so what's not playing so well. So I said, I ended up going on low and I
463
00:40:05.120 --> 00:40:11.120
fell out with the manager of the team that I was at. And then it just felt like everything
464
00:40:11.120 --> 00:40:17.040
felt like it was just spiraling out of control. And I thought I also didn't have anyone who really
465
00:40:17.040 --> 00:40:24.400
understood me all the time to even understand me or understand me and understand what I was
466
00:40:24.720 --> 00:40:32.080
dealing with or how I process things or how I dealt with things. And so I felt very alone.
467
00:40:33.600 --> 00:40:42.560
And that just felt like, you know, as many people who are in that place, in that position,
468
00:40:42.560 --> 00:40:48.800
they kind of just think that feels like the best option, even though it's not, feels like the best
469
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:56.480
option. And then, I mean, I mean, I mean, through that, I guess the other side of that,
470
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:02.160
they didn't really feel too much different. You know, it was just like, I couldn't do that. I
471
00:41:02.160 --> 00:41:10.720
feel that that as well. So I just carry on and carry on like that for a long period of time. Yeah,
472
00:41:10.720 --> 00:41:18.640
it was heavy, it felt heavy for, I'll say, on that period, maybe another year or so.
473
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:27.360
And then I try to make some drastic changes in my life. I try to give myself another crack
474
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:34.560
again at football and like, you know, try to shake things up. And then, you know, things are
475
00:41:34.720 --> 00:41:40.720
okay for the next few years. Ish. And I'll not see them then, I get to the point of like, okay,
476
00:41:40.720 --> 00:41:44.640
I need to, like, I can't do this anymore. This is not good for me emotionally. And I retire.
477
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:51.600
What did you try to do when you try to take it like, what was it? Was it overdose? Was it?
478
00:41:51.600 --> 00:41:58.080
Yeah. And overdose. And who was there when you came back? Would your family around you?
479
00:41:58.240 --> 00:42:04.560
Would you tell me? No, I was staying with my girlfriend at the time. And I went to sleep and
480
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:10.480
woke up. I had a really bad headache and felt a bit sick. I went to training and I actually,
481
00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:15.920
she never knew until maybe a couple of years later. So you didn't tell anybody yet?
482
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:24.720
No, nobody knew until years later, I started writing. And I shared some of these
483
00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:32.960
terms I'd written. That was one of my experiences, one of them. And I said, yeah, no one knew until,
484
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:39.840
you know, years later. What gave you the courage and the strength to actually tell people you've
485
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:46.000
done it? We didn't say it was courage and strength. I just like, I had of holding things in. I
486
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:52.720
think I got to about 26 when I started to talk about mental health because I was tired of, like,
487
00:42:52.960 --> 00:43:00.640
felt like I was hiding something. And I, you know, it gave a lot of context just to like, why my career,
488
00:43:00.640 --> 00:43:08.640
my life, my personality and how it was, was how it was, is when you understand, when you have the
489
00:43:08.640 --> 00:43:14.400
the backdrop of okay, suffering from depression on anti-depressants, like severely depressed,
490
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:21.680
you understand, like, why I'm not as, you know, talkative or outgoing or, you know, my mood
491
00:43:21.680 --> 00:43:27.120
is low. It gives context as to these things, you know, and so I was just like, I'm just tired of
492
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:34.160
hiding and pretending that everything's been fine. It's not. It's just, it's just, it's just
493
00:43:34.160 --> 00:43:39.680
getting off my chest and then like, you know, whatever people want to do, that information they can do.
494
00:43:40.640 --> 00:43:46.560
So when you said you just, you had to get it off your chest, you had to say, what was the,
495
00:43:46.560 --> 00:43:51.600
the had to feeling? Why was there had to? Why couldn't you just keep it in? Is it because everything
496
00:43:51.600 --> 00:43:55.280
could be, it was, it was eating up every part of the life. Yeah, that was it. It just felt heavy and
497
00:43:55.280 --> 00:44:00.080
it was just like, it was just too much to carry, you know, because I need to just get it off my chest
498
00:44:00.080 --> 00:44:05.120
and so, and get it out there. Once it's out there, then I don't have to pretend. Yeah,
499
00:44:05.120 --> 00:44:12.000
everything's less and everything's fine. And then, you know, people can take it, take it out.
500
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:16.960
They want to take it. I was like, Jamie, I don't care anymore. I just want to just say so that
501
00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:22.560
everyone knows what's what's what and like, and then you thought a lot of this idea and people
502
00:44:22.560 --> 00:44:30.320
say a lot, it feels heavy, right? It feels heavy like emotional weight. Do you think now when you
503
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:35.760
look at a man who you know struggling, you can see the weight he's carrying just by his demean
504
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:39.840
and everything about him, right? Yeah, carrying the shoulders, your neck, your head,
505
00:44:40.640 --> 00:44:45.760
your good, use people's look way down versus like when they're standing tall and they feel like,
506
00:44:46.640 --> 00:44:55.920
you know, that everything is good. So now you do a lot of work within mental health, right? Yeah.
507
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:04.240
Retiring on 28, you shifted your focus and you find, I guess, a purpose now in helping others,
508
00:45:04.240 --> 00:45:09.840
don't you? Yeah, I mean, I did before. I mean, it makes me feel good that I can help people.
509
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:15.680
Not necessarily something that I sought out. Like I said, when I spoke about mental health,
510
00:45:15.680 --> 00:45:18.880
the first time I was just like, it wasn't like I said, I'm doing this to try and
511
00:45:19.200 --> 00:45:26.880
help anyone or be an example or anything, just anything, it was just like, I'm tired of carrying this,
512
00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:32.080
that's it. And then I kind of became an advocate for mental health because
513
00:45:33.200 --> 00:45:36.720
you very quickly then realise like, you're not the only person in the world, I feel like this.
514
00:45:36.720 --> 00:45:38.080
And how do people respond?
515
00:45:38.720 --> 00:45:43.520
Very supposedly. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't really expect anything. So it's not like
516
00:45:43.520 --> 00:45:46.800
I expected negative or positive. I just didn't, I shouldn't make people would care that much,
517
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:55.120
it's just for people to go, okay, that makes sense and carry on. But I had, and still to this day,
518
00:45:55.120 --> 00:46:02.160
I have people reach out to me or stop me to talk to me and about things I've spoken about,
519
00:46:02.160 --> 00:46:06.800
my journey, the fact that a lot of people can relate to it, which I think is the biggest thing
520
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:11.200
when it's about mental health is that like, everyone thinks they're the only one,
521
00:46:11.200 --> 00:46:15.680
like everyone thinks they're the only one. That feels how they do.
522
00:46:17.200 --> 00:46:21.920
And then when you hear someone else talk about you're like, okay, I'm not the only one,
523
00:46:22.640 --> 00:46:25.760
and it's possible to get through this and deal with this.
524
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:32.720
Why do you think so many men don't share their story?
525
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:35.680
Why do you think so many men keep it within them?
526
00:46:36.640 --> 00:46:42.480
It's supposed to be tough, strong, you know, all these stereotypes of what a real man is supposed
527
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:49.680
to be. And you know, most of the time it's like, who do you speak to? Which I understand is like,
528
00:46:51.040 --> 00:46:58.400
even if we're doing a friendship group of 10 guys and all 10 will go through something none of them
529
00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:03.040
would say anything to really, most of them wouldn't say anything to any of them because they're like,
530
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:09.040
the other nine might, they might be like, how are you talking about what they might even say that,
531
00:47:09.680 --> 00:47:16.400
but deep down and I'm also going through that, but I need to look tough and so we need to be
532
00:47:17.520 --> 00:47:22.400
kind of saying the same thing of, you know, you'll be all right, just get through it kind of thing.
533
00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:29.600
You know, that's probably why it's just stereotypes that we adhere to, that we don't understand why
534
00:47:29.680 --> 00:47:37.040
we do or not, we just do. And how do your friends and your family react to you being so open
535
00:47:37.040 --> 00:47:42.240
and sharing this story? And that was different. All of my people that are close to me,
536
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:51.440
they understand, you know, lots of people have also been through stuff and I can have any
537
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:58.480
conversation with my people around me, you know, because that environment has been created, no.
538
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:04.080
You think some of it's a cultural thing as well, because I know in Indian culture,
539
00:48:05.200 --> 00:48:10.160
many are never going to talk about mental health, their feelings, it just doesn't happen.
540
00:48:10.160 --> 00:48:16.400
You see, many of my father generations who are alcoholics, you see, many of them might, who
541
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:22.080
now are maybe starting, they're starting to open up because others are leading the way.
542
00:48:22.080 --> 00:48:26.480
And I think there is something about someone who they can look at and think, oh, here's an
543
00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:31.120
Indian guy, a brown guy, here's a black guy talking about mental health. We have a response really,
544
00:48:31.120 --> 00:48:38.640
I think, being of color to show that we should actually be taking this serious, right? You go to a
545
00:48:38.640 --> 00:48:44.160
lot of addiction places and all the charities, there's hardly anyone of color. It is don't come.
546
00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:51.840
I think there's fear of what embarrassment, judgment is against the norm. What is it like within,
547
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:56.480
would you say within black culture for mental health? Is there something similar?
548
00:48:56.480 --> 00:49:00.000
It's definitely something similar, but I think it's a cultural thing, but I think generation
549
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:06.160
is different as well, like older generation. They had a lot more to do with than me, do you know what I
550
00:49:06.160 --> 00:49:15.120
mean? So I understand them going, like, your feelings are hurt, you're not happy. That's not
551
00:49:15.120 --> 00:49:25.520
a real thing that we, they had to do very, very difficult things for many different reasons.
552
00:49:25.520 --> 00:49:30.400
And we don't have to deal with those same things, the things that we're dealing with are very
553
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:36.960
different. So they're just different problems. And so I guess when from generation to generation
554
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:43.680
and looking at and going, well, why are you, why are you creating problems that don't exist? And
555
00:49:43.680 --> 00:49:47.680
say, well, there are problems and they existed for you as well, which is just you had even bigger
556
00:49:47.680 --> 00:49:53.440
problems on top of that. So that you never even got to even address these problems because you had
557
00:49:53.920 --> 00:50:01.200
these big ones there. And so, you know, I think it's going to take time culturally and from generation
558
00:50:01.200 --> 00:50:05.360
to generation to really shift that, but I think it's starting to happen for sure. I think
559
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:11.840
younger generation of people, a lot more aware of and understand their emotions,
560
00:50:12.720 --> 00:50:17.200
which I think is important, which is it's crazy to even think because human beings have
561
00:50:17.200 --> 00:50:23.280
had emotions forever. It's the first of a human being that was on earth. So the fact that we're
562
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:27.280
now getting to a point where we should talk about emotions like, well, what have we never done
563
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:33.520
this before? I love to know a bit more about life, you know, you've got three businesses, your busy
564
00:50:33.520 --> 00:50:43.680
men, your father of two amazing kids, a responsible father. I love to know a little bit more about
565
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:50.800
what drives you now, your purpose now, and how you're trying to raise your children, the values,
566
00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:56.880
and what you're trying to instill in them. The answer to the first question, my purpose is
567
00:50:58.080 --> 00:51:02.400
in everything I do is to leave things in a better place than I found them. And the world is one of
568
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:08.560
them, either more than the better place that I found it. Well, currently I'm not doing so well.
569
00:51:09.200 --> 00:51:17.440
What is that important to you? I don't know why it's important to me. It's probably easier. My
570
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:20.880
life would be a lot easier if it wasn't important to me to do that. I don't know. I just feel like
571
00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:25.760
we all have a responsibility to do something to make things a bit better. And even if it's a little bit,
572
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:32.240
we all do a little bit, a little bit collectively as a lot, when you compound it. So I don't know,
573
00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:37.520
I don't actually know the answer to the question. I just feel like that's something I have to do.
574
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:47.520
We all have to do. I just actively choose to try and find ways to do it. And for my kids,
575
00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:55.760
for them, their values and morals are incredibly important. For me, personally, they're incredibly
576
00:51:55.760 --> 00:52:08.480
important, but I want them to be polite, hard-working and honest. Those are very important things to
577
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:16.160
me. And I try to instill them. Feel those things in them every day. And they're in a very different
578
00:52:16.160 --> 00:52:25.440
position to I was when I was a child where my mum was very, very hard. But the opportunities,
579
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:30.960
I can give my kids and the life that I can give my kids is very different. So a lot of the things
580
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:37.120
that I just naturally had in terms of drive and determination and stuff, they don't necessarily have
581
00:52:37.120 --> 00:52:44.400
to have that because they're probably always going to be okay. See myself and their mum,
582
00:52:45.040 --> 00:52:53.520
they're always going to be okay. Do you think that's a good thing or not? Because I was just,
583
00:52:53.520 --> 00:53:00.000
I was listening to this podcast, which as a guy said, when when we build something,
584
00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:07.840
we learn so much through the challenge of the build. We define our character, we appreciate
585
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:16.640
our values, certain money and things that come with it. I came from this and now I'm here. So I
586
00:53:16.640 --> 00:53:22.880
really respect where I am because I don't want to go right there. And the challenge we have when we're
587
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:27.600
raising children and giving them things, I don't want you to face the things that I faced.
588
00:53:28.240 --> 00:53:33.040
But by facing the things I faced, I became the person I am now. And this is an open and question.
589
00:53:33.040 --> 00:53:38.160
I'm not saying is I was wrong or right? It's and I'm in the same position. How do I make sure,
590
00:53:38.160 --> 00:53:44.480
and how do you make sure our children build a character that teaches them how to face obstacles,
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00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:50.640
that teach them how to face challenges, that enables them to have the mindset to carry on
592
00:53:50.640 --> 00:53:55.440
going forward and life gets hard? Have you thought about that? I think about that often because
593
00:53:56.800 --> 00:54:03.280
I've been for a lot of pain and showering my life. And that's giving me everything I have,
594
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:09.600
taught me everything I have. That is my strength. I don't want my kids to go through that.
595
00:54:09.600 --> 00:54:13.200
And I don't think they will, I don't think they will go through that. I don't want to, I hope they
596
00:54:13.200 --> 00:54:19.360
don't have to go through that book. That doesn't mean that they can't learn from my journey,
597
00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:24.080
and they can't gain strength in other ways. For me, I try to,
598
00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:31.440
firstly, I try to allow them to solve their own problems as much as possible from anyone.
599
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:39.440
Sometimes it's simple things of trying to tie their shoelaces or putting them doing buttons
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00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:47.760
on the top or figuring out a toy or something, trying to figure it out, and each try. And sometimes
601
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:56.400
you can do it, but it isn't always a case of that, just do it. Because I can't just be there to
602
00:54:56.400 --> 00:55:03.840
do everything for them. They have to learn and the ability to learn is probably the strongest
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00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:09.280
ability that anyone could ever have. So I'm trying to teach them, give them the ability to learn
604
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:15.440
for themselves and to be able to solve problems for themselves by pushing them to go, okay, you do,
605
00:55:15.680 --> 00:55:19.920
you do, you do. And then sometimes when it's, it takes a lot of patience, of course, but like,
606
00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:26.720
if they do need help, of course, if they really can't do it, then I'll help and I'll show them
607
00:55:26.720 --> 00:55:31.120
so the next time they can do it for themselves. Because I'm not just going to do it, and then they've
608
00:55:31.120 --> 00:55:38.560
not learned anything what's the point. Again, all I can do is try to allow them to give them the
609
00:55:38.560 --> 00:55:44.880
space to learn and to grow and to develop and solve problems for themselves. And then as much as
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00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:49.600
possible, I teach them and show them and give them insights to my journey that I'm currently on.
611
00:55:49.600 --> 00:55:54.080
Like I said, the journey I'm on now is very similar to the one that when I played football, it was very
612
00:55:55.280 --> 00:56:01.600
very up and down. There's a lot of failure. Like I probably, I felt more now than previous
613
00:56:01.600 --> 00:56:06.000
ideas of football, but like, and I'm doing it across three different businesses and saying
614
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:12.720
them are failure. And you know, the reward's very high, but there's no guarantee of anything.
615
00:56:12.720 --> 00:56:18.080
It's just keep going. You keep pushing forward. You keep working hard. And so I try to give them
616
00:56:18.080 --> 00:56:24.240
insight as to what goes on why works are hard. Sometimes I'm up late. I'm tired. And I'm honest with
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00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:30.720
how I feel, what's going on. You know, if things are quiet, I'm like, you know, things are quite
618
00:56:30.720 --> 00:56:36.240
normal. And this is what happened. I'm trying to work hard to do this and I have meetings and I have
619
00:56:36.240 --> 00:56:42.160
this shoot at 7 a.m. or whatever it may be to give them an understanding of, okay, you know,
620
00:56:42.240 --> 00:56:48.240
dad works hard. You know, he has to work hard and that's the only way, you know, and regardless of
621
00:56:49.120 --> 00:56:56.800
not everything's perfect, but you keep going. So you're single, Dad. You was telling me of camera,
622
00:56:56.800 --> 00:57:02.000
you have your kids one week, and then they're with their mom one week. What I don't think is
623
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:09.840
discussed a lot is man's mental health when he doesn't have his children around, right? Because
624
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:16.560
we do need time to ourselves, but it's not like you ever don't miss your kids, right? You always want
625
00:57:16.560 --> 00:57:26.400
them around you. How do you cope during those times when they're not with you and you're missing
626
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:30.400
them and you come back from a tough day and you know, what's going to make you feel better is
627
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:36.160
your kids just giving you a hug and saying, Dad, sometimes I'm at home and I'm making something
628
00:57:36.560 --> 00:57:41.760
I'd hear my daughter's voice saying, Dad, can you get me this? And I'm like, I wish you was here.
629
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:48.320
It's just her hearing her say and call my name as a man, this is our purpose. I can't see something,
630
00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:53.760
let's do it for them. I wish you was here. I really miss her. And I think it's discussed a lot
631
00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:59.120
of that men, how much they miss their children. How do you deal with that? I mean,
632
00:58:00.080 --> 00:58:06.000
to be honest, I put my emotions secondary to theirs always. You do that as any parent,
633
00:58:07.200 --> 00:58:13.360
most parents do that. And for me, it's important that they have lots of time with their mom,
634
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:17.360
just as I think it's important they have lots of time with me. And their mom's a great mom, so
635
00:58:18.640 --> 00:58:22.560
and they'd love spending time with her just as much as they might love spending time with me.
636
00:58:22.560 --> 00:58:27.360
So even if I do miss them, it's like, well, this is the most important thing for them.
637
00:58:28.240 --> 00:58:34.240
And this is what makes them happy. If they're with me all the time, as much as it would be great
638
00:58:34.240 --> 00:58:39.120
for me, but it'd be selfish in a way because they wouldn't be fully happy because they're not
639
00:58:39.120 --> 00:58:43.120
getting their time with their mom. And even if it was the other way around, it'd be the same thing.
640
00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:54.080
So even when their mom and I, when we've got divorced, the kids would, it was always kids first.
641
00:58:54.080 --> 00:58:58.000
The most important thing is that to make sure that the kids are always happy and that they have
642
00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:04.160
everything that they need to be happy and whatever that's, things that they need, but all the time also
643
00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:10.960
with both of us, then that's it. So like, I'm okay because I'm like the kids are happy.
644
00:59:11.920 --> 00:59:16.320
I love that man. So you shift the focus from you onto them and through their happiness,
645
00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:20.960
you find your own. I love that. As we're coming to the end of this conversation,
646
00:59:24.240 --> 00:59:29.040
I want to ask you a question. So as we get older as men, we naturally question purpose.
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00:59:29.040 --> 00:59:32.800
What was I here for? What does this all mean? Why did I have to do all these things? Why did I have to
648
00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:40.160
go for all these challenges? I can see a lot of my story and journey in you as well. Obviously,
649
00:59:40.160 --> 00:59:45.120
different challenges, different battles, different situations. But as I reflect as a man,
650
00:59:45.120 --> 00:59:48.960
I realize that if all these things didn't happen, I wouldn't be here doing what I'm doing now.
651
00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:53.760
Do you look back at your life in exactly the same way and think, I had to go for all the challenges
652
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:58.880
of football. I had to have that moment where I nearly took my life. I had to face obstacle after
653
00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:04.800
obstacle, failure after failure to now serve a greater purpose than I could have possibly had for
654
01:00:05.200 --> 01:00:11.520
football. I wouldn't change anything to any single element. All of the highs and all of the lows.
655
01:00:11.520 --> 01:00:19.760
I've listened to a podcast with someone said that if you want to be grateful for all of the
656
01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:23.840
positive things in your life, you have to also be grateful for all of the negatives in your life.
657
01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:27.760
They both are the major that you are. If you're happy with who you are, then you're happy with
658
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:34.000
everything that made you who you are and part of it. I'm grateful that I went through depression and
659
01:00:34.160 --> 01:00:38.880
those low periods of time, as much as I'm grateful for the incredible experiences of the highs I had
660
01:00:39.520 --> 01:00:46.720
because both of them, both the highs and all those, everything is important and everything
661
01:00:46.720 --> 01:00:52.880
has allowed me to come this far and hopefully go a lot further. There's a lot of peace in that,
662
01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:57.920
isn't there? Acceptance, owning it, knowing as part of your journey.
663
01:00:58.880 --> 01:01:06.160
We only have one life. All you can do is, depending on everyone's beliefs. For me,
664
01:01:06.160 --> 01:01:12.800
personally, you have this one life that you ran and I just want to make the most of it. That's
665
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:20.560
why I have our landish ambitions and dreams and why I have millions of businesses and try to
666
01:01:20.560 --> 01:01:27.600
go down these different paths and try to do these crazy things. You never know when
667
01:01:27.600 --> 01:01:33.600
your time's up. There's one thing that we have no control over is our time. We know that it's
668
01:01:33.600 --> 01:01:40.560
going to run out at some point. We don't know when. I just try to make the most of it.
669
01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:46.480
Well, look, man, I really appreciate you having this conversation with me. It's been really
670
01:01:46.480 --> 01:01:52.480
insightful for me to ask questions to a professional athlete, someone who people look at and think
671
01:01:53.280 --> 01:02:00.080
about it all, but to realise there is so much more beneath us isn't discussed. I think it gives
672
01:02:00.080 --> 01:02:06.880
a lot of people insight into the pressures that you face with success because we're
673
01:02:08.160 --> 01:02:12.160
accustomed to pressures of failure, but the pressures of success is something only
674
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:17.200
a small handful of people really get to experience. Thank you so much for coming on.