LeBron and Luke?

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Speaker 1: They are Sports Illustrated. This incredible body of horse. I really appreciate the integrity. Everything you do is do. We love it. Thank he's Chris Mannix, He's employed by Sports Illustrated. The announcer's got it inform me, this is the crossover NBA podcast. You have a problem with it, Build a team that can beat them? Hosted by the one and over. Thank god Chris Mannix. All right, before we get to the main part of the podcast, which I recorded with growing that Carni on Tuesday afternoon, just hours before maybe the craziest story in what's been an NBA season full of crazy stories jumped off. I want to get into it here because Magic Johnson resigning from the Lakers stepping down as president of basketball operations is truly truly a bonker story. And if you missed this, and I don't know how you did, because it was all over social media on Tuesday night, Magic Johnson before the game against port in the season finale, he addresses the media and he unprompted, announces that he's stepping down as the team president. He didn't tell Jennie Buss, who he apparently met with for three hours on Monday as part of an organizational meeting to discuss the future. He didn't tell Jennie Buss he was doing it. He didn't tell Lebron James he was doing it. He apparently met with Lebron James and Rich Paul over the weekend. He didn't tell Rob Polanka his GM that he was doing He didn't tell anybody that he was stepping down as president of the Lakers until he went out there and actually did it. This was a wild press conference to watch from start to finish because Magic came out and I thought he was being pretty honest with all this. He came out and effectively said, I'm not having any fun anymore. I liked who I was and what I was doing before I took this Laker job, and he said didn't want to do it. He quit. Now, this isn't all that surprising if you followed the career of Magic Johnson. I got a bunch of texts about this from NBA types last night. They pointed out the sixteen game coaching stint that Magic had back in If you remember that Magic took over late in the season, had some success early, but they wind up losing like five games in a row. At the end, and Magic just said, yeah, I don't really have the heart to keep doing this. If you're old enough to remember the Magic Hour, which was Magic Johnson's talk show back that was canceled eight weeks into the run because of bad ratings, and in the aftermath of it, you heard from people that worked for the show that said that it was a complete disaster, that there was just a lack of preparation that needed to exist in the show like this, and being an NBA g M is like, it's far more difficult than any of those things combined, because being an NBA g M in today's league, it requires you to work year round. You have to travel to far flung gym's in eastern Europe to go scout somebody. You've got to try to find the next Janice, attend to compo, and to do that, you've got to get out there. You got to watch college basketball on an almost daily basis with their really trained eye. You've got to be willing to really commit, and Magic Johnson just didn't have that. So to a degree, I give him some credit for saying I'm I'm through. It's it's not worth it to me, and I'm not having any kind of fun. I'm gonna walk away. There are other parts of that press conference that were just insane. Magic Johnson he listed among the reasons that he was walking away were that he couldn't engage with players in the way he wants to engage with them, and he listed not being able to tweet at Dwyane Wade in Dwyane Wade's final game to congratulate him on a great career. Not being able to tweet at Russell Westbrook to congratulate him on his game that he had against the Lakers just last week. Uh, not being able to train Ben Simmons. Now, these things are all very different that I don't think the NBA. In fact, I know the NBA would not have had a problem with Magic Johnson congratulating Dwyane Wade on the end of his career. Dwaye Wait is a retiring player, and if you send out a congratulatory tweet, I think the NBA would let that pitch go by. I also think that they would have just kind of shrugged their shoulders at Magic, uh congratulating Russell Westbrook. Russell westbrooks a player that's been under that is under contract for the next few years. And if you just go on Twitter and say Wow, great performance, Russell Westbrook, I don't think the league off is gonna take notice. They are going to take notice when you say you want to train Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons, who is like Magic Johnson, a big point guard, would probably benefit from working with Magic Johnson the same way big men benefit from working with like Hakim Eli Juan. But you can't do that when you are the president of a team that might be recruiting Ben Simmons over the next couple of years. And Magic didn't seem to really get that, or didn't seem to to really understand why that was a big problem in the league's eyes. But the Twitter stuff I thought was funny, like this is the first casualty of of Twitter when it comes to an NBA front office job. Twitter has now become a reason that a high profile NBA executive has quit his job. Now. The Genie bus stuff is wild because not telling Genie Buss after sitting with her for three hours is just how do you sit there and go over everything for next year when you fully know that you're gonna walk away from this situation. But if you're a Genie Buss. Once your head stops spinning, and give Genie credit. She's handled this with with a lot of poise and and taking the high road, at least on social media, and I'm sure behind the scenes every single time. Uh that at least the last couple of less twenty four hours or so. But if you're a Genie Buss, this is a gift, it really is. You went out there and you hired the franchise icon. It didn't work, but it didn't cripple your franchise either. You're not partying with Maggie Johnson on bad terms. You still have a great relationship with him. He still wants to be like an ambassador for the Lakers. He still says he'll sit in on Laker free agent meetings if that would help um. But you didn't part on bad term was there? Nor did Magic Johnson leave this franchise in a state of disrepair. They still have Lebron James, who's one of the great players in all of basketball. Still, they have got a decent young core. That's in part due to the drafts that Magic Johnson has overseen. I mean, Kyle Kuzma was a good pick, good pick, Josh Hart was a good pick. Uh, Alonzo Ball good pick. They probably should have taken adjacent Tatum or Diaron Fox. But I think a Lonzo Ball can still become a pretty good player in a starting level point guard in this league. Plus, they didn't go out and spend money in the same way that Jim Buss and Mitch cup Jack did. That is smart thing this summer and signed a bunch of guys to one year deals in preparation for this offseason. Now, because of all that, Genie Bust can take this as her ownership Mulligan. She can say, all right, well we did this one way. Now let's go out and do it the right way. Let's take all our money, all our resources and go out there and hire the best executive available. That's Sam Presty. Go out and make every possible maneuver to get Sam Presty. If it's Darryl Moury, same thing, massayau Jerry. Maybe somebody should place a phone called the San Antonio and see if R. C. Buford is interested in leaving the Spurs after however long two decades with that franchise. Just test the waters there and see if he wants to to walk away. From that situation, the Lakers are a job that is still incredibly coveted. If you're at a GM out there, you are very interested in that Laker position because of the assets they currently have, the cap position that they're in, and their willingness and ability to spend money not just on you the GM, but go going deep into the tax because of all the money they have. I mean the Lakers, Forbes recently value them at well over three billion dollars. They've got a TV deal that guarantees them I think a hundred eighty million dollars per year over the next fifteen twenty years. They've got a building in the Stable Center that just prints money when the Lakers have home games. So you're in a good position there. And if it just comes down to how much an executive should get paid, Genie Buss, that front office ownership, the rest of the whoever is part of that group that controls the purse strings there should just blow them out of the water. Let's say hypothetically that Sam Presty wanted that job or was interested in that job. If you're Jennie Buss, you FedEx a blank check out to Oklahoma City, and you say Sam here's a check. You fill in the dollar about what would it take to get you there? Because fifteen million dollars a year not that consequential for the Lakers. Twenty million dollars a year not that consequential for the Lakers. They can afford to grossly overpay a great executive now, They've been doing it, Big Market team has been doing it for a long time. But the Lakers now can go out and find the best guy out there and see if they can entice them with their resources and their money. And I would think that's the way that Genie Buss really needs to go to get this situation right. So wild story in the NBA Tuesday night. I mean, go back if you want some last there, go back and watch some of that press conference. Magic Johnson was just all over the place, and look, he wears his heart on his sleeve, and I thought he was being honest. There's made a lot of conspiracy theories in the coming weeks and months about his relationship with Lebron James and maybe his relationship with Rob Polenka. Will hear a lot of of scuttle out there about what was going on behind the scenes. But I do really believe that it boiled down to the fact that Magic Johnson just didn't enjoy doing this anymore and wanted to do something else. Because Magic Johnson, more than anything, enjoys being Magic Johnson. He doesn't enjoy being Magic Johnson top executive, just like he didn't enjoy being Magic Johnson head coach and all the responsibilities that came with it. He didn't enjoy being Magic Johnson daily talk show host and all the responsibilities that came with it. He enjoys being Magic Johnson. We can have great relationships with players because of his status as one of the all time greats. Uh. He can tweet whoever he wants, he can talk to whever he wants, he can go on TV and again if he wants to. There's just a lot of things that Magic Johnson's civilian can do that he really seems to want to do. So Lakers weird moment probably an embarrassing moment for their franchise because of everything that that went into it. But I think when the dust settles, the Lakers gonna look at this is a good thing, that this is their chance to kind of turn things around and get it headed in the right direction. All right, there are my two cents of the Lakers. Now onto my conversation with Rohan dock Carney. All right, welcome back to the Crossover NBA podcast. On this episode, we're gonna get into overtime rules, Dwayne Wade's future, Lebron James is surprising, defense of Luke Walton, and what really is the most interesting storyline of these upcoming playoffs. As always, the best way to support this podcast head over to Apple Podcast, where you can post a rating or leave a comment. Maybe you can do both. It's easy, it's free, and it's the best way to make sure that we keep doing this podcast week after week. Also, if you like boxing, subscribe to the s I Boxing podcast hosted by Yours Truly. That podcast also comes out every single week. Next week my new s I t V show In the Paint that premieres on s I t V. My first guest is NBA Commissioner Adam Silver. The show will appear on the s I TV platform on Tuesday and is only available on s I t V. To subscribe, head over to s I dot tv. And one of the Piece of Business, the Webby nominations are out and Fall of the Titan The Terrific podcast, reported and hosted by Tim Rohan, is nominated for the Best Sports Podcast. A great podcast if you ever listened to it, I highly recommended. If you like that pod, please go over to Webby Awards dot com. That's Webby Awards dot com and vote for it under the sports podcast category. All right, joining me now back in studio and living proof that dreams do come true? Rohan. That Cardi whose interview with Dwayne Wade is in the pages of the magazine this past week. You'd also see the video version of it over at s I t V. What's up, Rohan? You know, Chris, I'm glad you mentioned my article with Dwayne Wade, which by the way, is a regional cover for those of them are our listeners in the great state of Florida. But you know, Chris, something that was really amazing about this Dwayne Wade story, talk about dreams come true. It wasn't just getting to write the story, but it was getting the respect of people in the industry. You know, I got a nice, a nice tweet from Chris Ballard Ben Golliver, our former colleague, sharing the story. So sweet of him. Lee Jenkins, the Clippers front office guy sending me a text congratulating me just means so much to me because I looked up to these guys so long, and yet radio silence from my podcast partner Chris Mannix. You know, not even a not even an Instagram like I just you know, I keep I keep thinking we're building something here, but just just no love. Uh. First of all, I did share the story on Twitter, so that is just your immediately inaccurate okay saying, Um, you're right, I did not reach out. I liked the story. I thought it was terrific. Um all that. Like I, I did not. I didn't know that you you so badly needed. Uh you know these kind of responses, Yes, I do. I do this purely for the validation of those I work with. To be completely honest, I get nervous every time I published something on the Internet. I'm nervous they're going to find out I'm a fraud. So I'm just constantly looking for reassurances when people I work with. Listen, twenty years from now, when you do zayre Wade's exit interview, I will be sure to send you all the praise in the world when that one comes out. I appreciate it. And and now I understand we're going head to head on s I t V. We're competing now, Uh, I believe so. Uh, the my show is I think gonna run through mid July. Maybe, I think that's the the early plan. I've been lining up some guests for it and trying to do things, trying to separate from the terrific crossover TV show that you do. I'm trying to do something little different on my end. No, No, it sounds great. I'm already genuinely excited for that Adam Silver interview. That's gonna be a lot of fun. So congrats. I'm looking forward to watch. We spent some time in his office this past week, and uh, that'll be part of the first show on Tuesday. All right, let's jump right into it all before we get to Dwayne Wade, and I do want to talk about your story there and some of the stuff that came out of it. On Monday night. Uh, college basketball's national title game was influenced in part by instant replay. Now, if you missed it down two points with the minutes plan overtime, Texas text David Murready out hustled to Virginia players to a loose ball. The ball was knocked out of his hands, and to the naked eye, it looked like it was Texas Tech ball. The officials went to replay, and after what was just an interminably long time, they ruled that the ball grazed the Barretti's fingertip and belonged to Virginia. Tech went on to lose rolland replay is a hot bucket topic in sports, not just basketball. But in the aftermath of this, do do you think there's a uniform way that replay should be used in basketball? And you know, a college basketball being championship being somewhat decided by replay just doesn't sit all that right to me. Do you think there's a solution out there for it? So, first of all, a quick confession. I did not watch the college basketball championship game. I think I watched a grand total of four minutes of it. I just watched some Top Chef reruns. I really couldn't get myself into it. And then when I saw like the commotion this morning, I didtn't replay, and I kind of caught up and I saw the play, and I'm sure it was frustrating to people watching that live just how long those replays take. Here's my issue with it. You know, it's the two sides of the same point issue because last night people were complaining about how long this replay goes, and then you have that Saints Rams game in the NFL playoffs where people are saying, why do we have replay? If we can't replay this stuff, I don't know that I personally need a massive overhaul to the system. It's kind of you have to take the bad with the good. You have to take the lumps. Yes, there are nights like last night where it's frustrating and maybe it's not in the spirit of the game to slow things down frame by frame. See the ball went off some guys, Pinky, I understand that that's frustrating, but I think it's a net good. The ends justify the means when it comes to instant replay. At the end of the day, what we're doing is trying to achieve the truest result possible. What we want is to get as many calls right as possible. And if anything, I'm I'm kind of like you know how Jeff van Gundy is always complaining on ESPN, Hey, why can't they review fouls if they're reviewing the ball is going out of bounds. I'm almost in favor of the last two minutes. You're you're looking at the video of something, you you correct the call as much as you can that. That's honestly what I'm in favor of. I'm not saying expand it, but in those high pressure moments of close games, yes, I do think you want to get as many calls right as possible. And I understand the frustration of fans who are watching that game last night, which had an incredible finish, and you feel like this is rapping all the momentum, taking all the excitement out of it. I get it. But at the end of the day, I think you want as many calls as possible to be the correct ones so the players are determined the outcome of the game. And I understand why it's such a hotbut issue, but I think you just kind of have to take the bad with the good. Yeah, I completely agree with you when it comes to the ability to assess the entire sequence. Because Moretti was fouled before the ball was knocked away from Kyle Guy reached in, you could see a clear foul when he came across his body looked like he slapped him on the thigh, which kind of caused Moretti to to lose a little bit of control. In that situation, the referee looking at that replay can clearly see that he or she missed the call, like they missed that call. So you should be allowed to go back and say, look, the ball did go off of the Texas Tech player, but we missed the foul call before the result is it's Texas Tech ball. They had the ball in that situation, Let's give the ball to Texas Tech. I do think that progress has been made with replay. It's not like they go to the video booth every single time there's something that they don't uh that they don't really are sure of that. There are time slots you can look at the stuff. Same thing with the NBA. You can only go to replay in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter, and I think that works pretty well. You know, for the league, there are some extra time out there and maybe you can play with it a little bit. But there has been progress. I'd just like to see at the college level and the NBA level, for the referees who are you know, experienced with decades of experience, and especially in these big games, these are the best of the best. You should allow them to use their judgment and say, well, we missed the foul. Let's say that. Let's just say it's Texas tech ball. Let's go with the totality of the situation. Yeah. I couldn't agree more like, let the refs ref in the spirit of the game, and especially in the NBA. You know, you saw what the Warriors were doing the last couple of weeks where they're so mad at the refs. There are so many calls the refs make throughout the course of the game that are incredibly difficult, calls that don't come unto the scrutiny of replay that you might see, you know, one short replay the broadcast, and then the fans get mad and they make the right cause and people will never talk about those I kind of brought this up last week when we were doing Crossover TV. But you know, there was the Warriors and Nuggets played last week and Boogie Cousins gets called for a blocking foul early in the first quarter and he's obviously very upset, and Oracles going nuts and they show a replay and it was a great call on a very fast play that happened really quickly, and that's forgotten. No one remembers a random play in the first quarter. That's a very difficult call to make, and especially for referees who come under so much scrutiny if they make the wrong call in a big moment, why aren't we giving them as many tools that they're disposable to make sure that they're not affecting the outcome of the game. So I'm with you there. If you can't call the foul, at least let's agree that in the sphere of the game it should be ex teams, ball, or whatever the case may be. So I don't I don't know that I need an overhaul. I'm fine. If anything I want to give, I'm with you. Give referees more trust to do what's correct in the sphere of the game. Yeah, people would say, well they got the call right, Well, no they didn't. They missed a previous call which was pretty blatant, and then they got the second part of the play right because they went to the replay and it did look. You know, if you want to really scrutinize it like his his pinky finger caught the edge of the ball as it was going out of bounds, but the right call would have been called the foul first stop the play. It was pretty clear they got to give these guys a little more rope to make the right call on the the entirety of the play. Now, this national title game, Rohan was criticized, not because it didn't feature the two best teams. Texas Tech came in. You know, they won their way in beating top teams. Virginia had a terrific tournament. Some nail binders they played in all throughout this tournament. But because it lacked the sex appeal, there was no you know, Zion Williamson playing on one side. Kentucky wasn't it the up two big programs weren't playing in the title game, and people have said that. Uh. I read a lot of columns of the last couple of days. Pete Damil wrote one over at Yahoo um that this is kind of like the new norm in some ways for college basketball because the one and done rule, which is expected to be eliminated sometime early next decade, is going to change college basketball, and college basketball doesn't really have a plan to, you know, kind of figure out what to do after the NBA comes in and shakes up their system once again. Let me ask you this first. You know, college basketball has always been at kind of the mercy of the NBA with all this. The one and done rule has nothing to do with college basketball. The NBA does really care what college basketball thinks when it comes. This is exclusively about making their game better. And it seems like Adam silver At Michelle Roberts with the Players Union are in favor of dropping that, uh, that one and done rule. Are you in favor of the NBA keeping the one and done rule or eliminating what they're expected to do in the next few years. Oh, this is an easy one. That rule should never have existed in the first place. I think it's better for both. Like people, some people are like scared of the one and done being gone. It's like how quickly we've forgotten that there was a world before the one and done? Like they were like when Lebron James after the NBA, the one and done didn't exist and college basketball was fine. If college basketball was worried about the effects of you know, the one and don't they need to clean up their game first, Like, it makes no sense to me how different the rules are across the levels of basketball. I understand that college wants to be its own game. It it doesn't have to be an NBA clone, but talk about the sex. These games would be better if you know, this floor was more space, the shot clock was shorter. You know we were increasing score, increasing pace, doing all these things that the NBA has going to make the game more exciting, more open. Uh, you know, that's I think what college basketball still focus on as opposed to the talent um. They're going to be fine either way. I mean, they're gonna be guys who go to college. I'm one of those people that thinks the end of the one and done could benefit college basketball from this aspect. If if you were getting guys who are incentivized to go their play two or three years, you're going to see more of what we saw in the past, which was actual teams who've had you know, skin in the game, who've gone to the tournament one year, experience heartbreak and now I want to go back and win. I think that's good for the sport. I want to see more of that. Those those kind of storylines developed so I think the NBA should have never had the one and done rule and it needs to be gone, and I think it's going to ultimately benefit both sports. Yeah, I go both ways on this issue because I do agree with some of what you said there if if the one and done rule is gone, you might have teams that are more comprised of sophomores and juniors and seniors, uh the way that say Michigan State has been constructed over the years, and it will benefit college basketball because fans of the sport, fans of a particular team will have more time to kind of uh you know, developed sort of fan relationships with these players and and that would become good for college basket rather than these the cycle of you know, Zion comes in one year, and who's the next guy next year? And the years before that. There's just it's such a quick turnaround for these guys Ben Simmons and and all the stars of of years past. On the other hand, you can't prove a negative, but I do think that that the one and done rule has stopped eighteen year olds and guys that thought they were ready for the NBA from going to the NBA. I mean, I'm old enough to remember Rohan, the days of like Taj McDavid, core Leone Young. I mean, you go down the list, there were a lot of guys that entered the draft that had no business enter the draft. I'm sure over the last i mean, what has it been almost fifteen years, I'm sure over the last almost fifteen years, there have been a lot of players that if they had the opportunity to go to the NBA, they would have, but because that wasn't there, Maybe they went to college. Maybe they realized once they were in college that they weren't all that good. Maybe they stayed for four years, and they stayed for three years and became good enough to play at the NBA level. I think there's something to that. Um So, I I kind of go both ways on this issue. I'm with you there. I do think it would it would help, And I kind of put this on the NBA, like, if they really want to be proactive about it, they need to find a way to help guys transition because obviously have guys like Lebron who are ready to play right away, right comes in, you know, day one, making an impact. You know, then you have other guys who maybe need seasoning. I don't know if the G League is the ultimate answer. It probably is, but find a way to help those guys who are maybe too good for the college game but not ready to have the pressure of a franchise on their shoulders, find a way to help them transition into the league. I do think in that sense, like a minor league makes a lot of sense, and I think the G League could become that one day. Obviously, it's gonna be tough for the guys that you know that not everyone wants to take the busses. Not everyone wants to, you know, make it to the NBA but then immediately have to play in Fort Wayne. But I mean, you've seen some teams around the league who have used that G League to really develop guys. I mean the heat, You've seen what Monte Morris has done this year. I think that needs to be more realistic option. The G League is a wait for guys who are younger to get seasoning so that they can improve before they're full blown professionals in the NBA. I think some guys are scared of the G League, at least their agents are, because you know, there's a chance you could be kind of humanized in that like if you come out into the college ranks, as you know, or if you come out of high school ranks as this this high profile prospect, you go up against men, maybe you don't look quite as good, maybe your draft stock starts the tumble. But there are a lot of advantages to play in the G League. I mean, these are NBA coaches, you know, the guys coaching these teams are either veteran assistance that have been around for a while or high quality young assistants that are on the rise to eventually coach in the NBA. And look, they do have to take buses to far flung cities and they travel coach, and it's certainly not it's not the lifestyle you experience at either the NBA level, certainly or even a big time college program. But you have NBA level coaching and high level facilities, and you are given the kind of structure to build towards a pro career that you're you're you're never going. Now that you're seeing the salaries start to go up, I think the G League. I don't know if it's gonna be an option for everybody, but I think more and more you'll see one guy here, two guys there start to say, you know what, I'm not ready for the NBA, but um, you know this this, you know, playing in the G League, you know maybe makes it is a better solution for me in um, a better answer for me and trying to find out if I'm ready to play in the pro X. Plus with the salary going up, I mean it just it creates more financial opportunity for them to play at that level as well. All right, yeah, real quick, I just want to add the two way contracts are step in the right direction. But to me, and obvious fixes expanding rosters and letting teams draft guys that they can keep in the G League for a year or two, they're still getting paid their NBA salary, They're still they still get that high draft pick, and then you know, they can get seasoning under the guys of their own team. So they're being used in the right way as well. I think that, you know, I'm similar to that baseball model. I think that makes a lot of sense to me personally. Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with the with with that part of it. All right, let's talk about your hero Wayne Wade and the story you did on him. This past week n S I one thing I've been trying to look. I think I know the answer to this because he's said it publicly over and over again. But if you look at the numbers that Dwyane Wade put up this season, as we record this Tuesday afternoon, he played in seventy games this year, is averaging nearly fifteen points, playing twenty six points per game, shooting almost forty percent from the floor, and you know, knocking down thirty three percent from three, which isn't a great number, but is great his career high. Like it's it's his career high in the in the NBA. You know, Dwyane Wade rolland has said numerous times he's never reconsidered playing for another year, and it certainly would be weird if he did because of all the fanfare that his final season has been about. But do you think deep down he ever thought about it, because you know, he said, he said to you and he said to others that he could play in this role for two more years. I agree with if Dwayne Wade was a free agent right now, he would be a sought after commodity as a sixth man because he's proven that he can do it. Do you think it's ever crossed his mind that, you know, maybe I'm I'm leaving this game a little bit too early. I'm sure it's crossed his mind. I mean, especially in the month of April, the last few games. I mean the month of April is you know, barely a week old. But with the heat season on the line, he's been their best player. Something that didn't make my story was pat Riley saying, I think he's been our best player. I think what's really affected him as seeing how guys he used to play with went out, you know, whether it was Zoe's career ending an injury, um, you know, Shack kind of playing for a bunch of teams at the end of his career. I think that really affected him. I'm sure it's crossed his mind because not only are we talking about guys around the league, Scott Brooks, Steph Curry, all these guys have asked him, why why are you hanging it up? Like why aren't you still playing? Something that I asked him, you know, before the camera started rolling on our review, or not even asked him. I told him, I said, I'm glad you're walking away. You see all these not only just these new guys coming in, but you know, I didn't want you to go out like some of my my old favorite players, you know, like Shaq, who was a shell of himself and playing hurt and I he agreed, he was kind of like, yeah, I didn't want that. I think that what mattered to him was kind of leaving with his dignity on the court and not being one of those guys. He he wanted to end his career being someone who who could still contribute. He didn't want it to be a ceremony. He didn't want to be, you know, a guy who's just at the end of the bench, you know, not even playing. I think that meant a lot to him, and that that means more to him than ringing and every last drop out of his career. You know, he said, I didn't want to empty the tank. I think it meant more to him to have a little left and leave as a guy who people and players around the league still respected, as opposed to just hanging on, you know, until the very very end. I'm just speculating, but I think if the heat were good, like championship level good, I don't know if he would stick around, but I think you'd be tempted to do it a little bit more. I mean, they're not going to make the playoffs this year, and that's disappointing because we won't get, you know, a playoff Dwayne Wade. But if they were, like, you know, a top three seed in the Eastern Conference and look like a team that the next couple of years could be a top three seed, I think he might be tempted to stick around a little longer. As it is, he'd just be sticking around to play. I mean, he'd be doing it at a high level. And I can't see him ian. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see him ever considering now that the hatch has been buried with pat Riley there, I couldn't consider see him ever considering playing somewhere else. But you know, with Miami kind of at a sort of a crossroads with where they are with their roster and and and trying to to get back to at least a playoff level, I think that is part of it as well. I mean, I think if they were a championship level team, he might be more tempted. But as it is, with them being kind of a middle of the pack, lottery team. There's really no reason to hang on. I mean, he's accomplished everything. I mean it's subjective where you put him in the all time ranks, but you know, on the Mount Rushmore of shooting guards, he's got three championships. He's an all time great and and and certainly he's gonna have a lot of options when it comes to his post playing career. Without a doubt, Yeah, I do think he's he's very much at peace with what he's accomplished, even the championship thing. I haven't really considered that, but I do think part of him is a lot of those guys. It's interesting, and I think Chris Bosh felt this way to an extent to when he kind of resigned with Miami for five years that Big Three era, I think really kind of change the outlook guys like Wade and Bosch had where they were playing in that such an intense spotlight for four years that I also think part of him relish is not having to deal with that anymore. I think part of him just enjoys playing basketball again and not having that insane titl or bust pressure on him anymore. I think he kind of enjoyed probably that aspect of his last season as well, So I agree. I think he's he's kind of looking at it right now, like I have three championships. My resume is written. It doesn't really matter to add these kind of little things now here and there at the end. What do you what sense do you get about what he wants to do when his career is over, because I do think that, you know, every door is going to be open to him. If he wants to get into coaching, that'll be there. If he wants to get into a front office, I mean, Miami doesn't have the the deepest front office in terms of people in influential positions. It's you know, it's Spolster, It's pat Riley, it's it's a couple other people that are in that mix. Certainly the the Mickey A. Harrison and his son Nick are in that mix. He could jump into that situation if he wanted to eat also, and he will become I think the most sought after TV free agent that's out there. What do you think he wants to do in the next couple of years. That's a really interesting question. I was joking with him, you know, during his photo shoot. I said, you know, you left so many millions on the table. Are they going to give you one of those like ten year front office advisory roles? And he kind of laughed something that he told me once, uh that I think is gonna maybe something we're gonna see us maybe one of his focuses. He's really genuinely into fashion. That's something he cares about a lot. You know, I don't he was. He was kind of like, you know how you see Tom Ford on stuff. He's like, I, I'd love to see my name and it's in a place like that one day, just Dwayne Wade. I wonder if that's something he'll kind of focus on first. The reason I don't see him getting into coaching or front office like that every day is I don't think he wants to return to that day to day grind anymore. I think he wants to take advantage of the fact that he has so many options in front of him. So I think he's gonna do a mix of things, like I could see him doing a little TV, but not you know, I don't think he's gonna jump into an analyst roll right away or be a permanent fixture. I think he's gonna do a little bit of everything. Um, and I would bet he's like particularly excited to get involved in some fashion stuff. Yeah. I mean Kobe Bryant is kind of a blueprint for that off the beaten path sort of track that you can take after you retired. I mean Kobe got into you know, the writing, uh, you know, different scripts for stuff, and you know, writing the book and just doing sort of different things with his career. Over fashion, Dwayne Wade, that could certainly be, especially when you're kind of an icon down in Miami where you know, it's it's a lot of uh fashion going on down there. What one other thing I wanted to hit on there real quick is the Paul Pierce versus Dwayne Wade debate is like the dumbest thing I've ever like that that it's just really dumb. Like Paul Pierce has asked on National TV whose career was better his or Dwayne Wade or who's the I don't know how they phrased it, who was the better player, better career? Whatever? Like what is Paul Pierce supposed to say? You know what do you think that I'll tell you what. I'll let you jump in her a second. But do you think Paul Pierce, one of the great competitors of his era, is gonna sit there and say, yeah, Dwayne Wade was better. Do you think Paul Pierce even believes that. Like you can argue that he's he's full of it, and that's fine, but Paul Pierce. It would have shocked me Rohan if Paul Pierce said, now, yeah, Dwayne better player, better career by far than me. Well, let me give you an example of how to handle that question, Chris Mannox, because I was sitting down on the floor of the American Airlines that we know with Dwayne Wade, and he's looking up at the championship banners he helped raise in this in the city he put on the map, and I asked him, I said, did you think you were the best player on the Heat the first year of the Big Three? And he said yes so quickly that it caught me off guard. And then I said, when did you realize Lebron James was the better player? And Dwayne Wade didn't said didn't say, oh, no, I think he's better, or I didn't Dwayne Wade didn't say I still think I'm better than him. Whatever. He He went from competing against a guy and measuring himself against Lebron James to realizing he was the better player. And what Dayne Waite said to me that really struck me because you never hear a competitor of his caliber, Hall of Fame guy like him say things like this. What Dayneaite said to me about Lebron James was every day, you know, in practice, I've realized this guy could get to a level that I couldn't get to. And that didn't take away from my greatness. I knew who I was, comfortable who I was as a player, but when I saw Lebron James, I realized that he could do things on the basketball court that I couldn't do. Could Paul Paul Pierce could have handled the question that way and understand that he went head to head against these guys, and I agree. I mean, this is it's a little bit of an overreaction, and part of it is just people on the internet love to have fun at Paul Pierce's expense, So I get all that, but there is precedent forgot. I mean, we saw there's a story in the Athletic today about you know, partnerships and guys kind of talking about sacrifice and but just to hear Dwayne Wade talk about Lebron James in that manner to say it doesn't take away from my greatness. For me to admit that this guy could take it to another level that I couldn't go to was really striking to me because you don't hear that often from competitors or Hall of famers like Dwyane Wade. I don't blame Paul Pierce or thinking he's better. I'm sure deep down he believes he is better than Dwyane Wade, but there are ways to handle that question, So I understand where you're coming from, But I think it it's it just showed to me how secure Dwayne Wade is with his legacy and what he's done in the game. To admit that, yeah, there was another guy who I competed against, I went head to head with, who I realized, in the prime of my career was on another level than I was. Well, I think if Paul Pierce got the question about who's had the better career, who's the better player you or Lebron James, I don't think he would have said me. I think that Lebron is in a different category altogether. I mean, what do you think he's the best of all time? Second best, third best. He's on a very very short list the greatest. Paul Pierce thinks he's better. He would never think excuse me, I don't think he'd answer it that way though. Like, and here's my thing. You know, if you swapped out Paul Pierce and Dwayne Wade and the rosters they were on Paul Pierce with Shack in two thousand five when Paul was an athletic monster at that time, and Paul Pierce as the second best guy on the Big Three with Bosh and Wade, is anything different? Like is does he not have a comparable career? I mean, they do have differences, Rohan. I mean, I think Dwayne is is and has been a better defensive player than Paul Pierce. Um. I think Pierce has some advantages and his skill set as well, but at worst they're right on the same level. I think it's a subjective debate, but I think they're right on the same level. I mean, listen, Paul Pierce has never had a season like Dwayne Wade's oh eight oh nine year, which at the time you couldn't even properly appreciate because we didn't kind of have the metrics that you so easily. Now, that's what I look at. I look at what did they do when they didn't have the spotlight on anyone can win with great teams. Yeah, yeah, I agree. But Dwyane Wade, there was an argument from two thousand and six through two thousand ten that Dwyane Wade was the best or second best player in the league. I mean, he he would have made more all defensive teams if we could appreciate his defensive contributions then like we do now. I mean, Kobe Bryant was making all defense teams when frankly, he didn't deserve it. That that's what I look at. Let's let's forget the accomplishments. Let's look at what they were capable of doing on the court. What the metrics tell us. I mean, Dwyane Wade's O eight oh nine season is a an all time great season in the NBA, that that Paul Pierce at his height never really came close to replicating that. Those are the kinds of things I look at, So I understand where you're coming from. Yeah, if you had a team of of Pierce, Lebron and Boss. That team would have been really good. If you had you know, Pierce and Shack Lane together, that would have been really good. But but kind of what did they do when they were on their own? What did they kind of show? And that's what separates it for me. And again, if you're listening to this and you think Paul Pierce is a better player, I'm not judging you. Like love the NBA players you love. I think the guys that you think are great, Let them be great. That's fine. But for me, what separates to me is I just look at those years, Uh when when those guys were kind of left on their own, what did they accomplish? Uh? And just one last thing that oh six Finals the Heat second leading scorer in that series was Antoine Walker. Some people kind of forget just how much do anyway put that team on his back, even with Shack's help. So that those are the kinds of things that separated from me. Well yeah, yeah, Like I'm not gonna have any kind of debate about Dwayne Wade's greatness. I would say that the year you're talking about with Wade, you know how many games they want right, But you could say the same thing about Pierce before the Big Three arrived, you know what I mean, you know what I'm saying. So, but you're you're you're sitting there talking about how they're a you know what a great year he had. They won fifteen games that year. I mean, no, no, no, no no, Oh seven o eight was the year. You know, he had a bunch of injuries, the hit the lottery, oh eight O nine and ohine ten with the two first round exits, um and you know, just watch the two thou first round between the Celtics and the Heat and tell me Dwyane Wade wasn't playing on another level then Paul Pierson that series alone, Pierce just happen to have KG and Ray Allen on his team, right, Oh, you're right right, Oh eight o nine there were team in in that year. Yeah. Look at the bottom line is I just think it's close. I don't think that there should be the outrage on either side. I bought all this. I mean, the pierced defenders, mostly based in the Greater Boston area, believe that Pierce would have done the exact same things if, um, if he was with Miami and the Wade you know, people will say that he did some unbelievable things in critical moments, which he did. By the way, My whole point the Roland is like, it is insane if you expected anyone, not you specifically, anyone expected Paul Pierce as competitive a guy as as there has been in the last couple of decades. He played that same team with with KG and all those other lunatics. But it's insane if you thought Paul Pierce is gonna say anyone but him like, it's just I wasn't gonna happen. I agree with you there. I completely agree with you there, And all I would say to anyone, I agree that it's insane, But all I'll say to anyone is think about how insane it is for someone to admit that another player, another competitor, is better and just realize that that's exactly what Dwyane Wade did with Lebron James. And I'm not saying that you have to compare, but just appreciate Dwyane Wade a little bit more for that because he was willing to admit that this guy was better than him and and be secure enough to say that it didn't take away from his own greatness. All right, let's move along here. Uh the Lakers they are winding down, or as you listen to this podcast, will have wound down an incredibly disappointing season one that is supposedly most likely will result in the firing of Luke Walton. But Luke Walton himself some support from none other than Lebron James w an interview with the Spectrum Sports Net. He said, Luke Walton can control what you can control, and you've got to play their hand that you're dealt. I think Walton played the hand as well as he could. James went on to say, nobody expects for injuries to happen the way they did with our franchise. I'm not talking about two or three games here, everyone's back in the lineup. We're talking fifteen games. I saw something the other day where myself ingram Ball Kuzma only played twenty three games together. This year. We were fifteen and eight. James said. With that record, we had the fourth best defensive rating in the NBA seventh and offense. As good as that is, it's not enough for Luke to even be able to know what he has on a consistent basis. When you don't have a consistent roster every single night throughout a full season. Rohan, what do you make of Lebron James going to bat for Luke Walton at the very end? I mean, it feels like gets Lebron doing some damage control, right because the narrative all season long was that he was trying to get rid of rid of Luke. Here's the thing about Lebron James, man, I'm a big Lebron James fan. Everything he's done off the court, the moments that he's provided us as basketball fans on the court. Even the people who hate Lebron James can't help but watch everything that man does. Lebron needs to get a lid on all the noise that surrounds him. It's one thing when his teams are winning. It's one thing when he's still taking Cleveland with the finals if there. I I want him to come back and and be the Lebron James that we know and love next season. I wanted to destroy teams. I wanted to play all eighty two games. But what I hope he takes away from this year is he's got to get a lit on all the noise around him. Man, He's got to find a way to to get rid of this weird Rich Paul cloud that that hangs around, this kind of shadow thing that he's working. He's got to stop feuding with his coaches. And I know maybe in year seventeen that's that's gonna be kind of weird to expect this big change for him, But for him to come out and and now defend Luke Walton, it just feels hollow, right, Like does it? Does it feel like strong to you? I mean, what what is he gonna say when Luke Walton gets fired and we can kind of go back and read these comments. It's just too little, too late, And I think Lebron just really really needs to get a lid on all the noise around him and kind of stop feeding these narratives that maybe his focus isn't really Ambassawards. When I see a quote like this, I said, you know, where was this during the season when there are all these reports that you want Luke Walton gone and you didn't address it that You know, there's just there's too many things that he didn't address during the season for this to feel impactful for him to say it now. And frankly, it feels like Luke has one and a half feet out the door. Yeah, I agree with that, and I think Lebron has to be careful because if Luke Walton goes who's up next and there's not a very long list of guys the Lakers can bring in that have gravy toss necessary to coach Lebron James. Now, if you tell me that Luke Walton is going to get fired this week and that next week we'll hear about Tyron lou taking the job, I'd understand that. I mean, tylu is a very good coach. I thought he did an excellent job both in bringing that Cavaliers team together and what he did, of course in the finals a couple of years ago to kind of help lead them back in UH in that series against Golden State. That's a solid higher. But if Tyler doesn't want the job, you know he's very close with Luke Walton, or if he just isn't offer the job, who else is out there? I mean, you can't turn around and do what some of these other rebuilding teams do, which is higher the hot assistant coach. You can't hire the Kenny Atkinson's of the world coaches that turn out to be terrific coaches, because Kenny Atkinson, the version of him that came to Brooklyn a few years ago, wouldn't have had the gravity toss necessary to coach a Lebron James. So does that mean bring in like Mark Jackson, Is that somebody you want to bring into that mix? I don't know. I mean, I think if you're Lebron and you're comfortable with Luke Walton, you should want the Lakers to retain Luke Waldon the other part of it is, can you really trust that Laker front office to make the right decision here? Because that same Laker front office in in specifically Magic Johnson, thought it was a good idea to surround you with the type of players. They did. We don't need to dissect the Lakers season here, but one of the big reasons they are where they are is because this whole idea that you surround Lebron James with playmakers didn't work, and nobody thought it was going to work when they first put it together in the off season. So I don't look, I think it's kind of hollow at this point as well. But maybe he maybe it should resonate, Maybe Luke Walton should be brought back because he's better than what the alternative could be. I think one of the the great I don't want to say tragedy, but one of the most interesting things about Lebron's career, especially when we're looking back on it ten fifteen years from now, are the head coaches he's had. Uh, you know, I'm pretty sure Eric Spilson is the only coach since Lebron entered the league that has a winning record without him, you know, after coaching him or while coaching him. It's just you know, Duncan had Popovitch, even Kobe, whatever the relationship was with Phil like listened to him to some extent. Lebron has just never had that. I mean, he's never had a coach who he seemingly truly gotten along with. I mean he forced out Black Lou. It was like, are you just hiring Lebron's friend? I mean that's something that again he has to own. He has to get a lit on that, you know, does he want to be coached? I mean that's not that they want to bring in Jowan Howard, another guy that you know he played with. What are we doing, Like, are we just bringing in guys that like have a it's in a relationship with Lebron that they're it just doesn't make sense. Mean, it's it's frustrating because this is a guy again who is so so so good, and yet there are always those ones who are like, well, what could his career of benefit stuck with one coach? Would he really allowed to push him? And things like that. It's just really frustrating to me that Lebron kind of doesn't seem to trust anyone to coach him. Uh, And he had that for a little bit in Miami, and we saw his game kind of really reach new heights there and obviously a large most of that had to do with Lebron and his talent, but there's something to say about structure and organization and how that helps guys. It's just really frustrating to me that that he can't find someone he trusts. And again, like unless the Lakers go out and get like Greg Popovich, which literally there's a zero percent chance of that happening on God's Green Earth. I just don't understand. What's this magical higher they can make that's gonna make Lebron happy. It's really really frustrating to me. That that he's never been able to just kind of settle with a coach who is allowed to push him on a daily basis. Look, great players have been coached killers before. There's a long history of it. The problem with the Lakers right now is what you said, There isn't a great pop fitch out there. Doc Rivers is not switching locker rooms in l A to take that job. If you let Luke Walton go, there is not that top tier coach out there that can replace him. So it's almost I don't want to put it this way, but it's it's like the devil, you know, and you know what Luke Walton is. He's shown at at times he's been able to be successful with this group. He's developed some of those young players. Maybe consistency is the right way to go if you're the Lakers. All right, let me finish with this rowan the playoffs. They'll get underway this weekend. A lot of storylines and will jump into that more next week. But the most interesting storyline as as these playoffs begin to you as what that's a really interesting question. I I don't know if it's maybe the most interesting swiming, but when I'm most interested in is what can Houston show us the last couple of weeks. There haven't been a much fanfare about them, you know. I think early last month is when the kind of the the talk really started, Hey could these guys beat the Warriors again? But I'm really curious if Houston can kind of recapture what they had defensively last year in the playoffs. Are kind of frustrated Golden State. I think what's interesting about Houston is their defense all year was not very good, and then they kind of started to peak, you know, over the last four or five weeks of the season. I think that's what I'm personally most interested in. Can they kind of come out of nowhere and and make that push to be that Golden State contender one more time? And just on the other side of the bracket. Another thing I'm interested in, uh, the centers. The centers in the East are kind of making a comeback, right you know, Embid Brook Lopez. You know, teams are playing bigger. I'm kind of curious if that's gonna hold in the playoffs are not the last couple of the playoffs. It's kind of like centers play almost as like a ceremony for the first four or five minutes of each half, and then teams go small, and that's kind of when the real game starts. I'm curious if teams are gonna be tempted to stay big during the playoffs. Just a couple of things I'm keeping my eye. Yeah, for me, it's it's all about Boston, of course. Literally, can we just well, can we just cut out you saying for me, it's all about Boston and make that the title of the podcast? Well, no, because I think everyone who follows basketball would agree that the Celtics are maybe the most intriguing team of the postseason because their variance level is is huge. Like, if they play poorly, they could get beat in the first round. I think it's highly unlikely, but if they play poorly, they will be out early. But they do have the ability to still be a conference finalist, maybe even NBA finalist with with how they're playing. And look, I'm I wrote about this and I got a story coming out next week in the magazine about the kind of the season that was in Boston. Why they are so uh so tough to kind of get a read on. I'm starting to come around a little bit on on the Celtics as a contender once again. Rowan before the loss to Orlando, they had won five of their last six. And it's not just that they were winning, it's that they were winning in a way that I think is sustainable. They were healthy, you know, for the first time in a while. They had some bumps and bruises. Jalen Brown had a slight back injury, but he's back. I'm a little concerned about the Marcus Smart injury. I don't know why he was even playing in the game. Why anybody's even playing the game on Sunday after they had already clinched effectively that number four seed. But this is a team that can score. They with Aaron Baines in the lineup, their defensive numbers are terrific. And Baines is healthy once again. And you know, in talking to Danny Ainge about this for a while, something he said made sense. He's like, look, everything we've done the regular season, we can go over. We dissected it, but everything we've done the regular season. The hope that he has is that when you get to the playoffs, everybody kind of forgets about the minutes envy that they've had and the role envy that they've had and when winning is what it's all about, that this team will transform once again back into the team we saw in the last two playoffs. And you can see, you know, being around Kyrie Irving the last couple of weeks, his pilot light is lit like he's ready to go for the playoffs. And the coaching staff, I mean, they've been embattled all season long. Brad Stevens said, had a rough go of it this year. But it's they didn't become dumb this season, and Brad Stevens didn't become a bad coach this season. You give that coaching staff a chance to sink their teeth into one team over a seven to ten days stretch or whatever it is, and around, I think they're gonna have a good run of it. So I look at the way the brackets shake out. It would shock me if the Celtics lost Indiana. Indiana doesn't have the firepower without Victor Oladipo. I think they can beat Toronto and then be Milwaukee, should say. And if you get to a series against Rono, who knows what can happen. So I'm starting to come around role on this Celtic team as being a real contender once again. Here's the thing and all, honestly, I know I like to give you shit about it on Twitter and on this podcast. I don't disagree. Here's what intrigues me about Boston and you've been talking about this a lot. Hayward is starting to look a lot better. Hayward is really coming around. They also have they have experience. They have that's important in the playoffs. That's what Milwaukee lacks. They like guys who have made deep runs into the playoffs. I mean we're talking to Hayward has playoff experience. Kyrie, obviously Al Horford. They have guys who have been there, who know how to expect these pressure moments. And just remember how great their execution was in that series against Philly last year in late game moments, how well they were playing down the stretch of what we're really close games. That's important they have that to fall back on. Kyrie is the kind of guy who is built for the playoffs. When the game slows down, it's a little bit more half court and you need someone who can kind of break the schemes get his own shot. Kyrie is built for the playoffs. I mean, players around the league I think respect him so much because of what he's done in the postseason. Something I'm fascinated with with Boston is Marcus Smart has to play a lot. He's so good for them. He really makes that team go in some regards you mentioned Aaron Bains. His like on off numbers are really good. I mean, he's really a positive impact on so many lineups. What I'm really curious about Boston is do they go back to that opening night starting five which struggled for so much of the season, and but that was the lineup we kind of assumed would be the Warriors antidote, right, I'm talking about Kyrie, Jalen, Jason Gordon and Al Horford together. That was the That was the lineup we were looking at his on paper. This is finally there's some kind of team that has an answer to what Golden stated building. This lineup is gonna, you know, be no one in the East can match up with it. I'm really interested to see how Brad Stevens manages that group. If he's willing to play it, are they going to be successful? They're definitely gonna be interesting, And like you mentioned, their ceiling is very, very very high. I trust them a lot more than I trust Milwaukee, to be honest, no chance they go back to that lineup. I think they learned their lesson there that you need balance in your lineup, and you know Baines being healthy. Every time you talk to Brad Stevens about the changes within this team, he brings up Aaron Baines and and you look at the numbers with Baines and Horford on the floor, their defensive rating is like ninety two, Like that's an absurd number. They've been so good in the limited time Baines and Horford have been able to play together. I'm glad you mentioned Hayward too, because I mean I had somebody around the trade deadline, somebody high ranking in the organization say to me that Gordon Hayward is our mid season pick up, Like that's the guy, and they believe that. You know, the progress he was making, you know in January is shooting numbers went up into the forties. He was in the fifties in in February and March. Uh he's in as we speak. I think he's still in the mid to high fifties and shooting in in April he he has really come around, and in the process, the progress he has made has really been remarkable. He went from a guy having no trust in his body in the first month or two of the season, and he's admitted as much, just being uncertain about, you know, how his body was going to react moving slowly to somebody that's getting back more and more to the player we once saw playing Utah. He's getting to the free throw line once again once again, which is something that the southernst coaches harp on. He's making the right place. He's a terrific passer. He's not what he was in Utah yet, but he's the closest he has been to it. So with Gordon Hayward able to give you thirty thirty five minutes of you know, five percent of what he was with the Jazz, that's huge. That's huge for this team. It's gonna cost Marcus Morris a minute. They'll tighten the rotation a little bit, but Gordon Hayward getting back to where he was, close to where he once was, is a huge addition for Boston. Dwayne Wayne had a better season than Gordon Hayward. That's true. Dwayne Wade did the better overall season. But look at the last month that played in Miami against Wade. The game he played against in Miami, he was borrowing. In Miami, he had thirteen We went to the free throw line thirteen times. And you know, that's the thing the coaching staff has been looking at. Gordon Hayward is terrific at bouncing off guys, at playing through contact. He just wasn't comfortable doing it for the first couple of months of the year and you can't blame it because his ankle was turned around eighteen months ago. But now he's just so much more comfortable out there. And if he's able to get to the free throw line four or five six times per game, it's just a huge pickup for the Celtics. I don't know. I think the Eastern Conference playoffs, the ratings are gonna suck because there really isn't, like, at least in the first round, a great series. Like what's gonna be like the prime time Eastern Conference first round series? Like what's the one you put on at you know, late at night? Is there one? Because the Nets magic? Yeah, it's not good. So but the Celtics, I think they're they're back in the mix as a potential uh NBA finalist. Rohan always appreciate your time. Man. We'll talk again real soon. Congrats on the story, terrific job. Enjoyed it and uh looking forward to the next one. I appreciate it, Chris. Good luck with your TV show, Man. I'm looking forward to that first episode Tuesday on s I t V. Thanks Man,