Rachel Ledet: This is the comms exchange, a podcast by 3090 marketing. Each episode we sit down with colleagues, leaders and change makers to share stories and lessons from the field of community and economic development. Together we explore how communications shapes strategy, builds trust and drives momentum because every project, every partnership, every breakthrough begins the same way with a conversation. Hi, and welcome to the comms exchange, where explore the people, the ideas shaping how we build, connect, and communicate. I'm Rachel Leday.
Christianne Brunini: And I'm Christiane Ferdini.
Rachel Ledet: Today's guest is someone who I've actually had the chance to work with. And we just really thought it would be a great opportunity to have him on the show because I've gotten to see his work firsthand. About 10 years ago, I was working for a commercial general contractor, and we brought in a presentation coaching company to bring some leadership value to our field and office teams at this contracting firm. And I have to say, The the teams were a little skeptical at
Kene: Yeah.
Rachel Ledet: first, you know, who are these outsiders and what are they gonna make us do? And so we had these technical folks, these problem solder solvers, these people who were really in the field. They're very comfortable in their jobs, but not exactly comfortable sitting in front of a stage or an audience. And so we spent this day-long process working with this coaching team. And by the end of the day, we really saw some things change. Some of those people were really reluctant. And by the end, people were participating, they were volunteering, they were practicing, they were laughing. And really, the field guys and also the project managers who work largely in offices, they were more confident, more equipped to be able to share their expertise with clients or potential clients. And so that experience was really impactful. And we were able to kind of see a beginning to end. sort of full circle moment that day. And Kenne was one of the coaches. So we thought it'd be great to bring in Kene Ilyossi to our show to talk about AEC experts and kind of that communication process.
Kene: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here and it's it's it's amazing that it's been ten years. Wow.
Rachel Ledet: It has it's amazing how time can go by.
Christianne Brunini: Well, today Kene is the author of three leadership books and co-founder of Talent Revolution, where he helps leaders and organizations build what he calls an internal leadership operating system. His work focuses on helping people understand who they are, why they lead, and how they show up so they can create greater impact with their teens, clients, and organizations.
Rachel Ledet: And we do a lot of strategic planning with our clients at 3090. And so communicating and leading, it just sort of all ends up going together. I mean, some people kind of consider leadership development like an HR thing, but we know as communicators that how people show up at work through authenticity, through being their best selves, that really ties heavily into strategic growth and to marketing. And so this is just a really great topic for us today. I would like to also mention that Kine's path to leadership. Coaching is pretty interesting. And growing up in Nigeria, which is not around the corner from Atlanta, you know, Kene has this stint as a missionary in Zambia, which is really profound to me, and then moved to the States in 2001, where he had the unique opportunity to study under leadership development guru John Maxwell, and and kind of picked career development, personal development, professional development. and people development as a really sort of a life's mission, I would say. So today, Kane works with AEC leaders and professionals in all industries really to help these people lead with confidence, kind of find their true calling and and sort of what works for them and bringing their best selves into these interactions. So we are going to let Kane talk a little bit to our audience today about some of those things. And we're just really happy to have you on the show.
Kene: Glad to be here. Glad to be here. I'm excited about this, so jump right in. Jump right in.
Rachel Ledet: Why?
Christianne Brunini: Well let's start with talking a little bit more about your journey through Africa and your internship with John Maxwell and tell us a little bit more about how those experiences shaped you and ultimately how what led you to leadership development.
Kene: The the big shaping
Rachel Ledet: Big shapy one.
Kene: What really shaped me going back to my family,
Rachel Ledet: really shake the everybody's family.
Kene: you know, seeing my parents and grandparents, the excitement they had for changing lives, you know, I I I I grew up middle income, so not like my parents were like very wealthy, but they loved to pay for people to go to school.
Rachel Ledet: Seeing my parents and grandparents, the excitement they had for changing life, you know, I I I I grew up middle income. Well not like my parents were like very wealthy, but they loved to pay for people to go to school. my parents love to pay for you know, they call them Sagenarians. I grew up Catholic.
Kene: My parents love to pay for you know, they call them seminarians. I grew up Catholic and so they love to pay for seminarians to go to school and just giving people opportunities, especially people from low income homes. And seeing the influence they wielded in our community because of what they did, not just because of what they had, made a big impression on me. And so I always say after I was a kid who believed he could change the world.
Rachel Ledet: And so they love to pay for seminarians to go to school and just giving people opportunities, especially people from low income homes. And seeing the influence they will in our community because of what they did, not just because of what they had, made a big impression on me. And so I always say after I was a kid who believed it could change the world
Kene: And one thing led to another, you know,
Rachel Ledet: and one thing led to another, like, you know.
Kene: serving as a missionary, one of my first roles was to start a campus fellowship at the University of Zambia. And I quickly learned that to make any positive impact, I could not do this on my own. and and and that was where the desire to okay, how do I develop people to help me do this job?
Rachel Ledet: serving as a missionary, one of my first roles was to start a campus fellowship at the University of Zambia. And I quickly learned that to make any positive impact, I could not do this on my own. and and and that was where the desire to okay, how do I develop people to help me do this job? and and that started to
Kene: And and that started to tie into something that I did not even realize was on the inside of me. so moving moving here to the states, to to Atlanta, I I was fortunate to get the opportunity to intern with John Maxwell's company. one of the vice presidents, Dick Wynne, became my mentor.
Rachel Ledet: tie into something that I did not even realize was on the inside of me. So moving moving here to the States, to to Atlanta, I I was fortunate to get the opportunity to intern with John Maxwell's his one of the vice presidents, Dick Green, became my mentor
Kene: and taught me so much. And so it's been you know
Rachel Ledet: and taught me so much. And so it's been, you know,
Kene: it's been taking one step and letting that step take you to the next step.
Rachel Ledet: It's been taking one step and letting that step take you to the Yeah, sometimes we don't exactly know how it's all gonna come together. And then we wake up one day, ten years later, and sort of realize there's like a stitching that has happened over time. So I always think it's fascinating when someone has the perspective of living on two sides of the world and just kind
Kene: No.
Rachel Ledet: of lot of differences but then a lot of similarities as well about how just people function and in general and what motivates them. And so speaking of motivation, you have mentioned to me that people development is your calling and that you feel like no matter how you present that in the world, that that is sort of what you're meant to do and what you're meant for. And I guess at what point did you kind of say either in your education or in working in John Maxwell's calling that you really kind of knew that that was the optimum thing for you.
Kene: I realized it was the thing that gave me the most satisfaction when I was a missionary. back in Nigeria I had I had a landscaping business. It was good but not really fulfilling. As a missionary I got to pastor churches. I did not like the advent side of being a a a lead pastor, but I loved developing people. There was just something on the inside that I was like, okay.
Rachel Ledet: gave me the most satisfaction when I was a missionary. back in Nigeria I had I had a landscaping business. It was good but not really fulfilling. As a missionary I got to pastor churches. I did not like the advent side of being a a a lead pastor, but I loved developing people. There was just something on the inside that I was like, okay,
Kene: This is what I want to do for the rest of my life.
Rachel Ledet: this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.
Kene: You know, be it in church, be it out outside the church world. I have an interest in business. But I think I said it when you when you and I talked, Rachel. I can sell widgets, but I'm not excited about selling widgets. I'm not. But developing people just tugs at my heart. And
Rachel Ledet: think you know be it in church, be it out outside the church world, I have an interesting business. But I think I said it when you when you and I talked for Rachel. I can sell widgets but I'm not excited about selling widgets. I'm not. But developing people just thugs at my heart and
Kene: Going back to what I said earlier, the kid who believed they could change the world, and seeing how seeing how generations were ch changed by my parents sending one person to school and then the change in their kids and their grandkids, I re I realized that you change one person, you're not just changing that person, it's you're changing a generation.
Rachel Ledet: Going back to what I said earlier, the kids who believe they could change the world, and see how generations were ch changed by my parents sending one person to school and then the change in their kids and their grandkids, I re I realized that you change one person, you're not just changing that it's you're changing a generation.
Kene: And so for me that's that's that's what excites me.
Rachel Ledet: And so for me that's that's that's what excites me.
Christianne Brunini: For sure, there's a ripple effect there that that is wider and deeper than that initial impact. One of the things, one of the concepts that really stands out to us when you talk about your work is that concept of a leadership operating system. what does that really mean and what should leaders think about themselves that way?
Rachel Ledet: There's a ripple effect there that that is wider and deeper than that initial impact. One of the things, one of the concepts that really stands out to us when we talk about your work is that concept of a leadership operating system. what does that really mean and what should leaders think about themselves that way?
Kene: The leadership operating system is kind of like the foundation. I I love to work at the core of things. It's just the way I keep things simple.
Rachel Ledet: The leadership operating system is kind of like the foundation. I I love to work at the core of things. It's just the way I keep things simple.
Kene: What are the core of good leadership? It's not just the skills, because I have seen people with good leadership skills who have made bad decisions, people with good leadership skills who have derailed in their leadership. And so as you start to dig deep, you find that there are certain things at the core that have to be there. And if you use one term, I would call it self-awareness.
Rachel Ledet: What's at the core of good It's not just the skills because I have seen people with good leadership skills who have made bad decisions, people with good leadership skills who have derailed in their leadership. And so as you start to deep, you find that are certain things at the core that have to be there. And if you use one term, I would call it self awareness. But
Kene: What are you becoming self-aware
Rachel Ledet: what are you becoming self awareness?
Kene: about? What's at your core? The leadership operating system, the core is simply your identity, your purpose, and your natural abilities. These are three things that I'd say come naturally to you. Identify them, become self-aware of those things.
Rachel Ledet: What's at your The leadership operating system, the core is simply your identity, your purpose, and your natural These are three things I'd say come naturally to you. Identify them, become self-aware of those things,
Kene: And learn to use them strategically so that you can build
Rachel Ledet: and learn to use them strategically so that you can build.
Kene: leadership skills on top of them. it's one of those Greek dudes, those Greek guys, there's so many of those Greek Greek sages that said, know thyself. But but you you have to know thyself. If you don't know yourself, you're prone to making so many
Rachel Ledet: leadership skills on top them. it's one of those great dudes, those great guys. Yeah. There's so many of those big big that said, know But but you have to know thyself. If you don't know yourself, you're pro to making so
Kene: Bad mistakes.
Rachel Ledet: bad mistakes. Well, think that's an interesting vantage point. And maybe a Apollo or one of those Greek gods or something. but certainly having the unique characteristic of the person and building upon that is is the mission of at least one of your books. And you and I were kind of talking about that and how you have seen a lot of different firms and a lot of different like types of professionals, but that over the years, particularly when you were working with our company, and then even since then, these like AEC experts, the technical experts that work in firms like accounting, finance, even law, those all kind of have similarities with architecture, engineering, construction, because Knowing your subject matter and doing your job well doesn't necessarily mean that you can communicate value and communicate expertise or even communicate your business process to your community, your clients, your teams, stakeholders. And so a lot of what we do at 3090 is try help people see kind of beyond their own lens and to know themselves, but then also to know their audience because you kind of have to have both to To be able to send and receive information, whether that's
Kene: Yes.
Rachel Ledet: at an event, whether that's written content, whether that is a huge ad campaign. And so I think there's like sort of this understanding of of you and the receiver that is really a key part of communicating, especially for technical people. And you and I have
Kene: Okay, but yeah.
Rachel Ledet: talked a a little bit about kind of getting into the hearts and minds of those. types of people. So I wanna just ask a little bit about what you've seen with technical folks and maybe some of the obstacles or struggles that are common when you're working with people who are kind of trying to enhance their their leadership and communication skills.
Kene: The the biggest obstacle, especially in the context of communication skills,
Rachel Ledet: So especially in the context of communication.
Kene: with technical experts, is that they are technical experts. It's like you're good but you're being good is what makes you bad. because they know so
Rachel Ledet: experts is that they are technical experts. It's like you're good but you're being good is what makes you bad. because they know so
Kene: much and you want yes, you want to work with people that know so much, but
Rachel Ledet: Yes, you want to work with people that know so much, but because they know so much, they think the person to whom they're speaking wants to know all that they
Kene: Because they know so much they think the person to whom they're speaking wants to know all that they know. That's the problem. That's the problem. People don't give a hoot how much you know. People care about themselves, but all selfish. I've got a problem. How are you going to help me solve my problem? I don't care
Rachel Ledet: That's the problem. That's the People don't give a hoot how much you know. People care about themselves, but all selfish. I've got a problem. How are you going to help me solve my problem? I don't care.
Kene: about who you've worked for. I don't care the projects you've built. I don't care about all that. How are you going to solve my problem?
Rachel Ledet: about who you've worked for, I don't care the projects you've built, I don't care about all How are you going to solve my problem?
Kene: And
Rachel Ledet: And often most people don't start with that. It's almost they're trying to validate why they're in the room. And so going back to a world that we we had both been in,
Kene: Often most people don't start with that. It's almost like they're trying to validate why they're in the room. And so going back to the world that we we had both been in, Rachel, when an RFP is sent out, or if you've made the short list, the client or the prospect knows you can do the job. Why the heck are you starting out spending 15 minutes telling them about yourself?
Rachel Ledet: When an RFP is sent out or if you made the short the client or the prospect knows you can do it Why the heck are you starting now spending fifteen minutes telling them about yourself?
Kene: They've done their research. Focus on what you are going to do to solve their key problem.
Rachel Ledet: They've done their research. Focus on what you are going to do to solve their key problem.
Kene: That's the biggest issue that technical experts have, really focusing in on what's your problem and how am I going to help you solve that problem.
Rachel Ledet: That's the issue technical experts have, really focusing in on what's your problem and how am I going to help you solve that problem.
Christianne Brunini: Yeah, I think we we all struggle with that. You know, it shows up in how people operate in social media, even they focus so much on look at all my wins, look at all the things that I did, rather than focusing on the pain points, the actual things that you're trying to solve for your customer. one of the other things we we think about through communication is the difference between
Rachel Ledet: Yeah, I think we we all struggle with that. You know, it shows up in how people operate on social media even. They focus so much on look at all my wins, look at all the things that I did, rather than focusing on the painfulness of the actual things that you're trying to solve for your customer. one of the other things we we think about through communication is the difference between
Christianne Brunini: Communication and presentation and how do you explain the difference?
Rachel Ledet: Communication and presentation and how do you explain the difference?
Kene: Communication is broader. Presentation skills is a subset of communication skills. Presentation skills means you are giving a presentation virtually in front of a room to ten people, to a thousand people, and it's time based thirty minutes, an hour, and often you have time to prepare.
Rachel Ledet: Communication is broader. Presentation skills is a subset of communication skills. Presentation skills means you are giving a presentation virtually in front of a room to 10 people to a thousand people and it's time based. 30 minutes, an hour, and often you have time to prepare.
Kene: So anyone can be a good presenter if they learn the skills. There there are simple presentational skills, organizing your content, getting to the point, telling good stories. There are a number of presentational skills that anybody can learn. The broader context of communication skills has to do with in the context of leadership or even relating with people.
Rachel Ledet: So anyone can be a good presenter if they learn the There there simple presentation skills, organizing your content, getting to the point, telling good stories. There are a number of presentation skills that anybody can The broader context of communication has to do with the context of leadership rather than relating with people.
Kene: How you get your ideas across, how you how clear are you in telling stories, how clear are you in getting your ideas across or casting vision? one thing people don't even think of as a communication skill, listening.
Rachel Ledet: How you get your ideas across. How you how clear are you telling stories? How clear are you in getting your ideas across or casting vision? One thing people don't even think of as a communication skill, listening.
Kene: Listening is such a big communication skill. Sometimes the most effective thing you can do for someone is listen. So communication skills are much broader. Same thing, anyone can learn communication skills. But they're just a lot more things you have to learn.
Rachel Ledet: Listening is such a big communication skill. Sometimes the most effective thing you can do for someone is listen. So communication skills are much broader. Same thing anyone can learn communication skills. But they're just a lot more things you have to And a lot of this is sort of like learning the tools, having the tools in the toolbox and I remember some very specific things from the training session that I did with your team a decade ago that I still use. And a lot of them are just simple, but it's just applying them and kind of having a plan always helps. one thing I want to talk about is that we did a simulation on that training session that day about a specific presentation. And I think using something real life is an easier way to teach people. And that's what we experienced, which was really cool. And part of going after pursuits, you know, pursuit chasing is a good bit of work in the AEC field. and in a lot of technical experts, there's some amount of maybe RFP or interview process. And then sometimes you are on a stage of sorts having to relay information and gain trust. And so whether you're communicating or presenting I feel like trust is inherently sort of the point of it. What really separates,
Kene: Big time.
Rachel Ledet: you know, teams that are presenting in an actual pursuit format from, you know, someone who's just like presenting information well and someone who's building trust? What have you kind of seen when sort of the light switch goes on? Maybe explain a few factors that you've witnessed.
Kene: You you hit the nail on the head, trust. Trust. The the the person who is listening to you it they're asking themselves, does this person care about me? Do they understand my issue? And are they focused on solving my problem? Or are they more focused on selling me on their company?
Rachel Ledet: Who's listening to you if they're asking themselves, does this person care about me? Do they understand my issue? And are they focused on solving my problem, or are they more focused on selling me on their
Kene: If the person knows that your focus is solving their problem, you're building trust faster. And you get into that thing of okay, if they feel safe with you, they will want to find out more about you. And and and it works whether you are, you know, it's an RFP or even just talking with a group of
Rachel Ledet: the person knows that your focus is solving their problem, you're building trust faster. And you get into that thing of okay, if they feel safe with you, they will want to find out more about Yeah, and and and it works whether you are, you know, it's an RFP or even just talking with a group of
Kene: people, at a conference. It's all about what can you do for me? Trust is the big currency right there.
Rachel Ledet: at a conference. It's all what can the evil do for me. Trust that's the big currency, right?
Christianne Brunini: I think one of the other things that these technical people struggle with when it comes to presenting skills, whether that's in an audience or on at a conference or in a pursuit, is that they're not all extroverts, right? So they're used to being either behind a screen with their technical skills, or for a contractor, maybe that's in the field and more more comfortable in a physicality.
Rachel Ledet: think one of the other things that these technical people struggle with when it comes to presenting skills, whether that's in an audience or on at a conference or in a pursuit, is that they're not all extroverts, right? So they're used to being either behind a screen with their technical skills, or for a contractor maybe that's in the field and more more comfortable in a physicality.
Christianne Brunini: versus an expressive modality. So what do you do with people who are maybe aren't naturally charismatic and how do you help them, you know, communicate better without having to change their personality?
Rachel Ledet: versus an expressive modality. So what do you do with people who are maybe aren't naturally charismatic and how do you help them, you know, communicate better without having to change their perspective?
Kene: So I short answer, then I'll give an explanation because there's something that I I feel I need to correct there, which a lot of people say. Anyone can be a good presenter. Anyone. Anyone. Now extroversion, introversion, and this is a a misconception it a lot of people have. Extroverts and introverts have absolutely nothing to do with
Rachel Ledet: So I'll short answer then I'll give an explanation because there's something that I I feel I need to correct there, which a lot of people say anyone can be a good presenter. Anyone and anyone. Now extroversion, introversion and this is a a misconception if a lot of people extroverts and introverts have absolutely nothing to do with
Kene: Extroverts liking people or liking to be out front and introverts being withdrawn. Extroversion and introversion have to do with how energy is gained and how energy is lost. Extroverts are energized by people engagement. Introverts are depleted by people engagement. So you can have shy extroverts and you can have outgoing introverts.
Rachel Ledet: Extroverts liking people or liking to be outfront and introverts meaning with drawn. Extroversion and introversion have to do with how energy is gained and how energy is lost. Extroverts are energized by people engagement. Introverts are depleted by people engagement. So you can have shy and you can have outgoing introverts.
Kene: But the outgoing introvert, they might have a bandwidth of okay, I'm going to interact with people for two hours. After two hours, don't email me, don't text me, I don't want to see you. We're done. Okay. With with we're done. Now, in the context of presentation, communication, it has absolutely nothing to do with your personality.
Rachel Ledet: But the outgoing introvert, they might have a bandwidth of, okay, I'm going to interact with people for two hours. After two hours, don't email me, email me, don't text me, I don't want to see you. We're done. Okay. We're we're we're done. Now in the context of presentation, communication, it has absolutely nothing to do with your personality.
Kene: It it when people try to act out of character, that's where it gets into people say, Wow, there's something inauthentic about this person. And trust starts to erode. And so I tell people, listen, be yourself. Be yourself. Whether you're an extrovert or an introvert, you can speak with good energy because nobody wants to listen to a boring person.
Rachel Ledet: it it when people try to act out of character that's where it gets into people say wow there's something inauthentic about this person and trust starts to erode and so I tell people listen be yourself be yourself whether you're an extrovert or an introvert you can speak with good energy because nobody wants to listen to a boring person
Kene: speak with good energy, just speak with some life when you're presenting. Everybody wants to have a good time when they're listening to a presenter. The funny thing is that the interesting thing a lot of people don't know, a lot of actors, a lot of comedians, a lot of people that command stage presence are actually introverts.
Rachel Ledet: Speak with good energy, just speak with some light when you're presenting. Everybody wants to have a good time when they're listed for a presenter. The funny thing is that the interesting thing a lot of people don't know, a lot of actors, a lot of comedians, a lot of people that command age presence are actually introverts.
Kene: Because they're talking to so many people, it's not a conversation. So they can be on stage for two hours, after that they're gone. They don't want to be at parties, they don't want to go network. No.
Rachel Ledet: because they're talking to so many people it's not a conversation. So they can be on stage for two hours. After that, they're gone. They don't want to be up partying, they don't want to go network.
Kene: So so regardless of what your personality is, you can be a good presenter. Don't try to change who you are or how you are. to do that.
Rachel Ledet: So so regardless of what your personality is, you can be a good presenter. Don't try to change who you are or how you are. to do that. Well, and I think energy is sort of an interesting point because Chris and I laugh a lot about we're both more battery filled by people and activities and events and we don't get as drained. If you send us both to a conference for like a week, we sort of poop out at the end. But we we are we can talk all day long and still be talking at dinner. And so we don't get drained as as much as sort of the introverts. And I I do think as a generalization, people who aren't depleted can talk longer in public settings because they're just not having that sort of w withdrawn moment. Although we all need rest. That is true. I think the interesting thing about sort of, you know, just categorizing people who maybe get more battery refill in a quieter space is having good planning so that you know, like to your point about the comedian, you know when you're gonna be on stage. And if you're prepared for that, then you can sort of Time gather your energy points. I'm like imagining
Kene: Exactly.
Rachel Ledet: like Super Nintendo, you know, 1995 or something. You have to like save the the little battery so that you can be a good energetic version of yourself and show show your personality in that way. And then also schedule to have recuperation time so that you are able to do that. And certainly the preparation. And the comfort that comes with practice. And a lot of people don't want to spend time practicing. I know that
Kene: Mm.
Rachel Ledet: practice is a sort of a big thing that you have harped on in the past. I've I've seen it. And so people don't want to practice
Kene: Yes.
Rachel Ledet: because it feels weird. But when you have practice, you are not so burnt out in the moment because your brain has kind of lived it a few times. And so I
Kene: Yeah.
Rachel Ledet: think that's like maybe an important point for anyone listening who does have. a team who does pursuits or will be doing a pursuit is really investing the time in, you know, knowing the timeline of how long you're gonna be on a stage or in front of people, knowing before and after to schedule rest or practice and kind of having a lot of thoughtfulness about it. Because just because you know how to do the thing doesn't mean you're gonna demonstrate that well in in a room. And so I think, you know, having that foresight is almost more important than like the day of because you've you've run it, you've figured out the storytelling, you know, you figured out the handoffs. There's all these like little tools when you have a a coach that can tell you, you know, you're not just shooting from the hip. So I I think that that layer of practice actually makes this authenticity part easier. Because
Kene: Right.
Rachel Ledet: because it can feel more natural. So I'm just I'm remembering some you know, my little my training things. Yeah. Yeah.
Kene: I'm like, y you're making me proud. I'm like, I I did my job well. I did my job well ten years and she still remembers this. It it's yeah. And and the funny thing is You can imagine how many pursuit coaching sessions I've been in and they're pushing back or working with a G C or going in to do one of those sessions and they tell and they you know, they always say, Well, we don't have the time to practice. We don't have time and then I always come back and say, Well, do you have the time to earn the contract? Do you want the contract? Do you want the job? They're like, Yeah, we want the job. Well.
Rachel Ledet: Don't time and then I always come back and say, Well, do you have the time to burn the contract? Do you want the contract? Do you want the job? They're like, Yeah, we want the job. Well, okay. Gotta make the time to practice. There's no shortcut. Absolutely fifty million dollar project, a hundred million dollar project, and you say you can't spare two days to practice, well go figure. Right.
Kene: Okay, you've got to make the time to practice. There's no shortcut. Absolutely it's a fifty million dollar project, a hundred million dollar project, and you say you can't spare two days to practice. Well, go figure.
Rachel Ledet: Well, it's like a put your money where your mouth is situation, you know.
Kene: Yeah.
Rachel Ledet: that's very true. Speaking of trust building and authenticity, AI is a really big topic lately. And whether you're developing content or representing your company, you know, just kind of what are your thoughts about AI in the workplace and you know, just leadership in general with this new tool that is being widely use and is changing every day and maybe just something that business leaders should think about in regards to AI from, the last six months of what you've seen.
Kene: Yeah. it's definitely changing
Rachel Ledet: It's definitely changed.
Kene: the workplace and how we do work. But what I would tell people is one, play with the tool, but trust your people more than the tool. And when I when and when I say trust your people People get things done. People are the ones that represent your brand, not the technology. You have to put emphasis on the people, empower the people with the tools. And you know, encourage your people to use the different tools out there. Figure out the tools that are relevant to your industry. Let them play with it. Pay for the enterprise version of.
Rachel Ledet: People get things done. People are the ones that represent your brand, not the technology. You have to put emphasis on the people, empower the people with the tools. And you know, encourage your people to use the different tools out there. Figure out the tools that are relevant to your industry. Let them play with it. Pay for the enterprise version of.
Kene: Whatever tool, B, Chat, GPT, Claude, whatever it is, play with it. But know that it's the human in the loop that drives your business forward.
Rachel Ledet: whatever to be chat dplaw whatever it is play with it but know that it's the human in the group that drives your business forward.
Kene: Yeah it it it hurts me when I hear all these things about companies saying okay because of AI they're eliminating ten thousand jobs. It it's and then a few months after they're like, oops, we need to hire people
Rachel Ledet: And it it it hurts me when I hear all these things about companies saying, Okay, because of AI they're eliminating ten thousand jobs. And then a few months after they're like, oops, we need to hire people.
Kene: back
Rachel Ledet: Yeah, well our joke and we use AI a good bit, but our joke is like, you know, the robots are still robots and we use it to accelerate things, but it still has
Kene: Yes.
Rachel Ledet: to have good inputs. We still have to correct it. We still have to do final edits. and so Christian is a a very big proponent of especially Claude tools lately. And we've used it not a lot for marketing,
Kene: Love love.
Rachel Ledet: but a lot for like financial projections and sort of the nerdy side of running a business. So we do a lot with you know, Claude does really well with spreadsheets. So we've been playing
Kene: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Ledet: with it lot, but it's still broken. a lot of the times and we're still fixing and and teaching it and who knows where we'll be in a few years. But s I I love you just your reminder that the people are the ones who are the doers and the AI is the tool. And there's a happy line where we can use the people and the tool to get better outcomes, maybe more efficiently, but that we can't just, you know, we're not on the Jetsons just yet. So we can't exactly trust all the robots to take over. at least not in our world. So every now and then something really weird comes out of AI and we're like, well, you know, at least we all have jobs for a while because that was not good. well thank you for that. That's some great feedback.
Kene: Yeah. The truth is the every emerging, every tech technology that has come out has there's been the panic of like, this is gonna change the world. This is people are going to lose this and that. It's shifted how people work. But again, maybe this goes back to my faith. The the earth was created for man, not for robots and machines. So man will always have a place. Human beings will always have a place. We have to
Rachel Ledet: For man, not for robots and machines. So man will always have a place. Human beings will always have a place. We have to
Kene: make space for people to learn how to use the tools. And that would make them more efficient.
Rachel Ledet: make space for people to learn how to use the tool. That will make them more efficient.
Christianne Brunini: Well, speaking of people, I heard you say you had a landscape company and then I think maybe you also ran a moving company. So tell me a little bit about how those businesses helped shape and what lessons did you learn about customer service and people through operating those businesses.
Rachel Ledet: Well speaking of people, I heard you say y you had a landscape company and then I think maybe you also ran a moving company. So tell me a little bit about how those businesses helped shape and what lessons did you learn about customer service in people through operating those businesses?
Kene: Interesting question. The biggest lesson I learned about customer service is
Rachel Ledet: Interesting question. Biggest lesson I learned about customer service is
Kene: it's not just about solving the problem. Great customer service is not about solving the problem. It it it's yes, solve the problem, but great customer service starts when the customer
Rachel Ledet: It's not just about solving the problem. Great customer service is not about solving the It it it's yes, solve the problem, but great customer service starts when the customer
Kene: feel like you care about them and you really want to solve their problem.
Rachel Ledet: feels like you care about them and you really want to solve their problem.
Kene: Because you can solve the problem but the person just feels like, Okay, I'm one in a million, all right. It's just a it's just a job. Next. But when the person feels like, Wow, this person really cares about me, it makes a big difference. It as as I don't know how many times you guys have moved.
Rachel Ledet: Because you can solve the problem but the person just feels like, Okay, I'm one in a million, alright. It's just a it's just a job. Next but when the person feels like, Wow, this person really cares about me it makes a big difference that as as I don't know how many times you guys have moved.
Kene: But moving is moving is tricky okay, okay.
Rachel Ledet: A lot. Yeah. We both moved a good bit, but but Chris has an award in her office for how many times she's moved.
Kene: So so you have it down patch, right? You've got a system.
Christianne Brunini: Yes.
Kene: Moving is stressful. Moving is very, very, very stressful. And I realized that walking into someone's house to give an estimate, I had this opportunity to help them relax and feel good about the move. Because people are thinking about packing. Well, I get boxes. What am I gonna do with cleanup? There's so much that going through.
Rachel Ledet: Are thinking about packing, don't I get boxes? What am I going to do with there's so much they're going through? But I learned to listen, and whenever they start to raise a big concern, I'll just say, no, this is how we take care of this, and you could just sense that level of anxiety and tension coming down to the point where they were like, they're actually excited about you know.
Kene: But I learned to listen and whenever they start to raise a big concern, I was just like, no, this this is how we'll take care of this. And you could just sense that level of anxiety and tension coming down to the point where they were like they were actually excited about you know the day of the moon. They show up and they'd have coffee and all that waiting for you. that for me was a
Rachel Ledet: The day of the move, you show up and they have often all that waiting for That for me was a big lesson. It's not just about solving the but letting the person know that you care about them and you really want that problem.
Kene: Big lesson. It's not just about solving the problem, but letting the person know that you care about them and you really want to solve their problem.
Rachel Ledet: I feel like you're saying empathy, and not just showing up with the answer, but really being empathetic to the different levels of fear, concern, trepidation, all of those things. So I I love that and I wanted to make sure we brought that in and I do think that entrepreneurs of any type always have glimmers of takeaways that they've learned from their business life, even if they're in a different sort of business now. So that's a fun question to be able to ask you. Okay. So Yeah.
Kene: Thanks for asking that question. I don't nobody has ever in all the podcasts I've done, no one has ever asked me that question. No one.
Rachel Ledet: Well, we are professional question askers. So we we walk around with a clipboard just asking everyone we know questions. It's sort of it's sort of our favorite thing to do. So thank you for that compliment. okay,
Kene: I love it I love it, I love it.
Rachel Ledet: so last big question. If there was one thing that any leader could do that's a small change tomorrow that would have a great lasting impact on their team, what would it be?
Kene: I'd say Figure out the two or three people you will develop to replace you.
Rachel Ledet: That's big.
Kene: It is, it is. But figure out the two or three people you would develop to replace you because If you have two or three more people who can do everything or as much as you can, you've increased the capacity and efficiency of your team, which has increased the capacity of the company.
Rachel Ledet: increase the capacity and efficiency of your team, which has increased the capacity of
Kene: And so I always tell that whenever I work with leaders, I'm like, you have to make replacing yourself a priority. Work yourself out of a job. Now not not everybody wants to hear that.
Rachel Ledet: So I always tell whenever I work with leaders I'm like you have to make replacing yourself a priority. Work yourself out of a Now not not everybody wants to hear that.
Kene: But that is true leadership. That is true leadership. Replacing yourself.
Rachel Ledet: But that is true leadership. That is true leadership. Replacing yourself. That's powerful and and a a big part of using EOS, the entrepreneurial operating system that our team's been using and that we work with clients on is sort of like a simplified version of building for the future, building for sustainability and really getting out of your own way and It is hard to delegate. It is hard to identify that next group of people. It's it's hard to stop and teach. It's hard to, you know, spend dollars on professional development. All of those things are hard. It's really, really challenging. And I've been doing a lot of reading about sort of that entrepreneurial transfer. And so I think it's really interesting that you brought it up today. I I literally have, I think, three books I'm reading right now that deal with different things. And I I see your bookshelf behind you. it's It's so simple, but it's so hard. So I love that. And certainly you help executives with those processes. And so that's a great tidbit. So that concludes our QA session. And we have sort of a favorite part that we like to do at the end where we ask a few rapid fire questions that are just sort of like top of mind, give us give us like your quick feedback. You know, each one can just be a few seconds, but we'd love to just, you know. get to know you a little bit more. So Chris, take it away.
Christianne Brunini: Well, you're in Atlanta and so many of us end up in Atlanta for conferences. It is a huge draw for Atlanta. So when we're there, what is one restaurant, experience, or hidden gem that we need to make sure that we spend
Rachel Ledet: Huge draw for Atlanta. So when we're there, what is one restaurant, experience, or hidden gem that we need to make sure that?
Christianne Brunini: time to discover?
Kene: There's a restaurant in I think it's in Claremont right off of P T Cab Airport. It used it's called fifty seventh Fighter Battalion or something like that. It's on the runway.
Rachel Ledet: in I think it's in Claremont right off of Hab Airport. We used to call fifty seven like a battalion or something like that. It's on the runway.
Kene: It's it's it's on the runway and I love the I don't know now I hope it's still there because I haven't been there in a in a while, but it used to be somewhere we'd go like once a month.
Rachel Ledet: It's it's it's on the runway and I love I don't know now. I hope it's still there because I haven't been there in a while. But it used to be somewhere we'd go like once a month. Sunday brunch, oof. You just call an Uber because you're big out.
Kene: Sunday brunch, oof. You just call an Uber because you'd pig out. Yeah.
Rachel Ledet: Awesome. We'll have to check that out when we're in town l next time. Okay, next question. What is one leadership myth that you wish would disappear forever?
Kene: The leader knows everything. It it the the yeah, most times the leader The best leaders surround themselves with people who know more than them. So the leader doesn't know everything, the leader should not know everything, the leader should know their lane, but should also be confident enough to hire people that know more than them.
Christianne Brunini: Valuable lesson. You've also coached hundreds of professionals.
Rachel Ledet: You've also coached hundreds of professionals.
Christianne Brunini: What's one word people use to describe great leaders that you think is entirely overrated?
Rachel Ledet: leaders that you think is entirely over r rated.
Kene: Entirely overrated.
Rachel Ledet: Entirely overrated?
Christianne Brunini: Overrated.
Kene: One word that people use to describe leaders that is overrated. That's a tough one. That's a that that no that you stopped me right there. You stopped me right there.
Rachel Ledet: That's a tough one. Wait, maybe like one characteristic of of leaders that's overrated and not not as necessary as people think.
Kene: Yeah, that the the the the leader has to be bold. You know that they don't have fear. That's that's nonsense. Often a lot of leaders I work with as a fr they're they're scared as the people they're leading, they they're just
Rachel Ledet: They are scared at the people that are leading it, they're just
Kene: determined to press on.
Rachel Ledet: That's great. Yeah. Well, We have loved talking to you today, Kanae. And for anyone listening, we would love to point them in the direction of finding out more about you. So can you share how our listeners can find you online?
Kene: Talentrevolution.me www.talentrevolution.me That's my website and then you can look for me on LinkedIn Kene Iloenossi.
Rachel Ledet: Yeah. Can I light your seat? Wonderful. Well, we will share the link in our show notes. We are so appreciative of your time today. It's great to just catch up with you and also to introduce you to Christian. And we cannot wait to see what your coaching business does from here. Thank you for giving us your insights on all professionals, but specifically AEC professionals, and hopefully we'll get to see you either on this side or or your side at some point soon. We'll have to make that happen. Thank you. It's been it's been a pleasure and good to meet you, Chris. And
Kene: Thank you. It's been it's a it's been a pleasure and good to meet you, Chris, and The last time we talked, Rachel, I I th I remember the name of the restaurant I told you where they have the alligator cheesecake.
Rachel Ledet: Mm-hmm. Is it Giacomo's? Yes, the Giacomo's. Yeah. We were talking right after I spoke with you, we were we were laughing about funny Cajun New Orleans y foods and that thing. that Kenne was like, No, I can't I can't go there. I can eat all the things, but that's just weird. And I agreed because I don't like alligator either, even though I'm a Louisiana girl. But and Chris is a trained chef, so we we talk a lot about food around here and it's just weird.
Kene: around like train chef, train chef to marketing. Okay, that's that's another show. Well that's an offline conversation.
Rachel Ledet: Yes.
Kene: Yeah. My mind is running. So thank you so much.
Rachel Ledet: Well thanks.
Christianne Brunini: You. It was so pleasure to meet you.
Kene: Likewise, likewise. And I and I'm excited of
Rachel Ledet: Excited.
Kene: what you all have ahead of you at thirty ninety. congratulations on what you've you guys have achieved. It's it's it's just amazing to hear the
Rachel Ledet: Just amazing to hear
Kene: progress from the years when we met and when we
Rachel Ledet: Yeah, we've had some winning.
Kene: when when when you left your last company. I'm just excited for you.
Rachel Ledet: excited. Just excited for you. Thank you so much. It's been great and we hope to see you very soon.
Kene: Alrighty. Take care.
Rachel Ledet: Thanks for listening to the Comms Exchange, a podcast by 3090 Marketing. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please be sure to follow or subscribe so you don't miss out on an exciting new episode. We'll be back soon with more stories and strategies from the field because every breakthrough begins with a conversation.
Christianne Brunini: And I'm Christiane Ferdini.
Rachel Ledet: Today's guest is someone who I've actually had the chance to work with. And we just really thought it would be a great opportunity to have him on the show because I've gotten to see his work firsthand. About 10 years ago, I was working for a commercial general contractor, and we brought in a presentation coaching company to bring some leadership value to our field and office teams at this contracting firm. And I have to say, The the teams were a little skeptical at
Kene: Yeah.
Rachel Ledet: first, you know, who are these outsiders and what are they gonna make us do? And so we had these technical folks, these problem solder solvers, these people who were really in the field. They're very comfortable in their jobs, but not exactly comfortable sitting in front of a stage or an audience. And so we spent this day-long process working with this coaching team. And by the end of the day, we really saw some things change. Some of those people were really reluctant. And by the end, people were participating, they were volunteering, they were practicing, they were laughing. And really, the field guys and also the project managers who work largely in offices, they were more confident, more equipped to be able to share their expertise with clients or potential clients. And so that experience was really impactful. And we were able to kind of see a beginning to end. sort of full circle moment that day. And Kenne was one of the coaches. So we thought it'd be great to bring in Kene Ilyossi to our show to talk about AEC experts and kind of that communication process.
Kene: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here and it's it's it's amazing that it's been ten years. Wow.
Rachel Ledet: It has it's amazing how time can go by.
Christianne Brunini: Well, today Kene is the author of three leadership books and co-founder of Talent Revolution, where he helps leaders and organizations build what he calls an internal leadership operating system. His work focuses on helping people understand who they are, why they lead, and how they show up so they can create greater impact with their teens, clients, and organizations.
Rachel Ledet: And we do a lot of strategic planning with our clients at 3090. And so communicating and leading, it just sort of all ends up going together. I mean, some people kind of consider leadership development like an HR thing, but we know as communicators that how people show up at work through authenticity, through being their best selves, that really ties heavily into strategic growth and to marketing. And so this is just a really great topic for us today. I would like to also mention that Kine's path to leadership. Coaching is pretty interesting. And growing up in Nigeria, which is not around the corner from Atlanta, you know, Kene has this stint as a missionary in Zambia, which is really profound to me, and then moved to the States in 2001, where he had the unique opportunity to study under leadership development guru John Maxwell, and and kind of picked career development, personal development, professional development. and people development as a really sort of a life's mission, I would say. So today, Kane works with AEC leaders and professionals in all industries really to help these people lead with confidence, kind of find their true calling and and sort of what works for them and bringing their best selves into these interactions. So we are going to let Kane talk a little bit to our audience today about some of those things. And we're just really happy to have you on the show.
Kene: Glad to be here. Glad to be here. I'm excited about this, so jump right in. Jump right in.
Rachel Ledet: Why?
Christianne Brunini: Well let's start with talking a little bit more about your journey through Africa and your internship with John Maxwell and tell us a little bit more about how those experiences shaped you and ultimately how what led you to leadership development.
Kene: The the big shaping
Rachel Ledet: Big shapy one.
Kene: What really shaped me going back to my family,
Rachel Ledet: really shake the everybody's family.
Kene: you know, seeing my parents and grandparents, the excitement they had for changing lives, you know, I I I I grew up middle income, so not like my parents were like very wealthy, but they loved to pay for people to go to school.
Rachel Ledet: Seeing my parents and grandparents, the excitement they had for changing life, you know, I I I I grew up middle income. Well not like my parents were like very wealthy, but they loved to pay for people to go to school. my parents love to pay for you know, they call them Sagenarians. I grew up Catholic.
Kene: My parents love to pay for you know, they call them seminarians. I grew up Catholic and so they love to pay for seminarians to go to school and just giving people opportunities, especially people from low income homes. And seeing the influence they wielded in our community because of what they did, not just because of what they had, made a big impression on me. And so I always say after I was a kid who believed he could change the world.
Rachel Ledet: And so they love to pay for seminarians to go to school and just giving people opportunities, especially people from low income homes. And seeing the influence they will in our community because of what they did, not just because of what they had, made a big impression on me. And so I always say after I was a kid who believed it could change the world
Kene: And one thing led to another, you know,
Rachel Ledet: and one thing led to another, like, you know.
Kene: serving as a missionary, one of my first roles was to start a campus fellowship at the University of Zambia. And I quickly learned that to make any positive impact, I could not do this on my own. and and and that was where the desire to okay, how do I develop people to help me do this job?
Rachel Ledet: serving as a missionary, one of my first roles was to start a campus fellowship at the University of Zambia. And I quickly learned that to make any positive impact, I could not do this on my own. and and and that was where the desire to okay, how do I develop people to help me do this job? and and that started to
Kene: And and that started to tie into something that I did not even realize was on the inside of me. so moving moving here to the states, to to Atlanta, I I was fortunate to get the opportunity to intern with John Maxwell's company. one of the vice presidents, Dick Wynne, became my mentor.
Rachel Ledet: tie into something that I did not even realize was on the inside of me. So moving moving here to the States, to to Atlanta, I I was fortunate to get the opportunity to intern with John Maxwell's his one of the vice presidents, Dick Green, became my mentor
Kene: and taught me so much. And so it's been you know
Rachel Ledet: and taught me so much. And so it's been, you know,
Kene: it's been taking one step and letting that step take you to the next step.
Rachel Ledet: It's been taking one step and letting that step take you to the Yeah, sometimes we don't exactly know how it's all gonna come together. And then we wake up one day, ten years later, and sort of realize there's like a stitching that has happened over time. So I always think it's fascinating when someone has the perspective of living on two sides of the world and just kind
Kene: No.
Rachel Ledet: of lot of differences but then a lot of similarities as well about how just people function and in general and what motivates them. And so speaking of motivation, you have mentioned to me that people development is your calling and that you feel like no matter how you present that in the world, that that is sort of what you're meant to do and what you're meant for. And I guess at what point did you kind of say either in your education or in working in John Maxwell's calling that you really kind of knew that that was the optimum thing for you.
Kene: I realized it was the thing that gave me the most satisfaction when I was a missionary. back in Nigeria I had I had a landscaping business. It was good but not really fulfilling. As a missionary I got to pastor churches. I did not like the advent side of being a a a lead pastor, but I loved developing people. There was just something on the inside that I was like, okay.
Rachel Ledet: gave me the most satisfaction when I was a missionary. back in Nigeria I had I had a landscaping business. It was good but not really fulfilling. As a missionary I got to pastor churches. I did not like the advent side of being a a a lead pastor, but I loved developing people. There was just something on the inside that I was like, okay,
Kene: This is what I want to do for the rest of my life.
Rachel Ledet: this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.
Kene: You know, be it in church, be it out outside the church world. I have an interest in business. But I think I said it when you when you and I talked, Rachel. I can sell widgets, but I'm not excited about selling widgets. I'm not. But developing people just tugs at my heart. And
Rachel Ledet: think you know be it in church, be it out outside the church world, I have an interesting business. But I think I said it when you when you and I talked for Rachel. I can sell widgets but I'm not excited about selling widgets. I'm not. But developing people just thugs at my heart and
Kene: Going back to what I said earlier, the kid who believed they could change the world, and seeing how seeing how generations were ch changed by my parents sending one person to school and then the change in their kids and their grandkids, I re I realized that you change one person, you're not just changing that person, it's you're changing a generation.
Rachel Ledet: Going back to what I said earlier, the kids who believe they could change the world, and see how generations were ch changed by my parents sending one person to school and then the change in their kids and their grandkids, I re I realized that you change one person, you're not just changing that it's you're changing a generation.
Kene: And so for me that's that's that's what excites me.
Rachel Ledet: And so for me that's that's that's what excites me.
Christianne Brunini: For sure, there's a ripple effect there that that is wider and deeper than that initial impact. One of the things, one of the concepts that really stands out to us when you talk about your work is that concept of a leadership operating system. what does that really mean and what should leaders think about themselves that way?
Rachel Ledet: There's a ripple effect there that that is wider and deeper than that initial impact. One of the things, one of the concepts that really stands out to us when we talk about your work is that concept of a leadership operating system. what does that really mean and what should leaders think about themselves that way?
Kene: The leadership operating system is kind of like the foundation. I I love to work at the core of things. It's just the way I keep things simple.
Rachel Ledet: The leadership operating system is kind of like the foundation. I I love to work at the core of things. It's just the way I keep things simple.
Kene: What are the core of good leadership? It's not just the skills, because I have seen people with good leadership skills who have made bad decisions, people with good leadership skills who have derailed in their leadership. And so as you start to dig deep, you find that there are certain things at the core that have to be there. And if you use one term, I would call it self-awareness.
Rachel Ledet: What's at the core of good It's not just the skills because I have seen people with good leadership skills who have made bad decisions, people with good leadership skills who have derailed in their leadership. And so as you start to deep, you find that are certain things at the core that have to be there. And if you use one term, I would call it self awareness. But
Kene: What are you becoming self-aware
Rachel Ledet: what are you becoming self awareness?
Kene: about? What's at your core? The leadership operating system, the core is simply your identity, your purpose, and your natural abilities. These are three things that I'd say come naturally to you. Identify them, become self-aware of those things.
Rachel Ledet: What's at your The leadership operating system, the core is simply your identity, your purpose, and your natural These are three things I'd say come naturally to you. Identify them, become self-aware of those things,
Kene: And learn to use them strategically so that you can build
Rachel Ledet: and learn to use them strategically so that you can build.
Kene: leadership skills on top of them. it's one of those Greek dudes, those Greek guys, there's so many of those Greek Greek sages that said, know thyself. But but you you have to know thyself. If you don't know yourself, you're prone to making so many
Rachel Ledet: leadership skills on top them. it's one of those great dudes, those great guys. Yeah. There's so many of those big big that said, know But but you have to know thyself. If you don't know yourself, you're pro to making so
Kene: Bad mistakes.
Rachel Ledet: bad mistakes. Well, think that's an interesting vantage point. And maybe a Apollo or one of those Greek gods or something. but certainly having the unique characteristic of the person and building upon that is is the mission of at least one of your books. And you and I were kind of talking about that and how you have seen a lot of different firms and a lot of different like types of professionals, but that over the years, particularly when you were working with our company, and then even since then, these like AEC experts, the technical experts that work in firms like accounting, finance, even law, those all kind of have similarities with architecture, engineering, construction, because Knowing your subject matter and doing your job well doesn't necessarily mean that you can communicate value and communicate expertise or even communicate your business process to your community, your clients, your teams, stakeholders. And so a lot of what we do at 3090 is try help people see kind of beyond their own lens and to know themselves, but then also to know their audience because you kind of have to have both to To be able to send and receive information, whether that's
Kene: Yes.
Rachel Ledet: at an event, whether that's written content, whether that is a huge ad campaign. And so I think there's like sort of this understanding of of you and the receiver that is really a key part of communicating, especially for technical people. And you and I have
Kene: Okay, but yeah.
Rachel Ledet: talked a a little bit about kind of getting into the hearts and minds of those. types of people. So I wanna just ask a little bit about what you've seen with technical folks and maybe some of the obstacles or struggles that are common when you're working with people who are kind of trying to enhance their their leadership and communication skills.
Kene: The the biggest obstacle, especially in the context of communication skills,
Rachel Ledet: So especially in the context of communication.
Kene: with technical experts, is that they are technical experts. It's like you're good but you're being good is what makes you bad. because they know so
Rachel Ledet: experts is that they are technical experts. It's like you're good but you're being good is what makes you bad. because they know so
Kene: much and you want yes, you want to work with people that know so much, but
Rachel Ledet: Yes, you want to work with people that know so much, but because they know so much, they think the person to whom they're speaking wants to know all that they
Kene: Because they know so much they think the person to whom they're speaking wants to know all that they know. That's the problem. That's the problem. People don't give a hoot how much you know. People care about themselves, but all selfish. I've got a problem. How are you going to help me solve my problem? I don't care
Rachel Ledet: That's the problem. That's the People don't give a hoot how much you know. People care about themselves, but all selfish. I've got a problem. How are you going to help me solve my problem? I don't care.
Kene: about who you've worked for. I don't care the projects you've built. I don't care about all that. How are you going to solve my problem?
Rachel Ledet: about who you've worked for, I don't care the projects you've built, I don't care about all How are you going to solve my problem?
Kene: And
Rachel Ledet: And often most people don't start with that. It's almost they're trying to validate why they're in the room. And so going back to a world that we we had both been in,
Kene: Often most people don't start with that. It's almost like they're trying to validate why they're in the room. And so going back to the world that we we had both been in, Rachel, when an RFP is sent out, or if you've made the short list, the client or the prospect knows you can do the job. Why the heck are you starting out spending 15 minutes telling them about yourself?
Rachel Ledet: When an RFP is sent out or if you made the short the client or the prospect knows you can do it Why the heck are you starting now spending fifteen minutes telling them about yourself?
Kene: They've done their research. Focus on what you are going to do to solve their key problem.
Rachel Ledet: They've done their research. Focus on what you are going to do to solve their key problem.
Kene: That's the biggest issue that technical experts have, really focusing in on what's your problem and how am I going to help you solve that problem.
Rachel Ledet: That's the issue technical experts have, really focusing in on what's your problem and how am I going to help you solve that problem.
Christianne Brunini: Yeah, I think we we all struggle with that. You know, it shows up in how people operate in social media, even they focus so much on look at all my wins, look at all the things that I did, rather than focusing on the pain points, the actual things that you're trying to solve for your customer. one of the other things we we think about through communication is the difference between
Rachel Ledet: Yeah, I think we we all struggle with that. You know, it shows up in how people operate on social media even. They focus so much on look at all my wins, look at all the things that I did, rather than focusing on the painfulness of the actual things that you're trying to solve for your customer. one of the other things we we think about through communication is the difference between
Christianne Brunini: Communication and presentation and how do you explain the difference?
Rachel Ledet: Communication and presentation and how do you explain the difference?
Kene: Communication is broader. Presentation skills is a subset of communication skills. Presentation skills means you are giving a presentation virtually in front of a room to ten people, to a thousand people, and it's time based thirty minutes, an hour, and often you have time to prepare.
Rachel Ledet: Communication is broader. Presentation skills is a subset of communication skills. Presentation skills means you are giving a presentation virtually in front of a room to 10 people to a thousand people and it's time based. 30 minutes, an hour, and often you have time to prepare.
Kene: So anyone can be a good presenter if they learn the skills. There there are simple presentational skills, organizing your content, getting to the point, telling good stories. There are a number of presentational skills that anybody can learn. The broader context of communication skills has to do with in the context of leadership or even relating with people.
Rachel Ledet: So anyone can be a good presenter if they learn the There there simple presentation skills, organizing your content, getting to the point, telling good stories. There are a number of presentation skills that anybody can The broader context of communication has to do with the context of leadership rather than relating with people.
Kene: How you get your ideas across, how you how clear are you in telling stories, how clear are you in getting your ideas across or casting vision? one thing people don't even think of as a communication skill, listening.
Rachel Ledet: How you get your ideas across. How you how clear are you telling stories? How clear are you in getting your ideas across or casting vision? One thing people don't even think of as a communication skill, listening.
Kene: Listening is such a big communication skill. Sometimes the most effective thing you can do for someone is listen. So communication skills are much broader. Same thing, anyone can learn communication skills. But they're just a lot more things you have to learn.
Rachel Ledet: Listening is such a big communication skill. Sometimes the most effective thing you can do for someone is listen. So communication skills are much broader. Same thing anyone can learn communication skills. But they're just a lot more things you have to And a lot of this is sort of like learning the tools, having the tools in the toolbox and I remember some very specific things from the training session that I did with your team a decade ago that I still use. And a lot of them are just simple, but it's just applying them and kind of having a plan always helps. one thing I want to talk about is that we did a simulation on that training session that day about a specific presentation. And I think using something real life is an easier way to teach people. And that's what we experienced, which was really cool. And part of going after pursuits, you know, pursuit chasing is a good bit of work in the AEC field. and in a lot of technical experts, there's some amount of maybe RFP or interview process. And then sometimes you are on a stage of sorts having to relay information and gain trust. And so whether you're communicating or presenting I feel like trust is inherently sort of the point of it. What really separates,
Kene: Big time.
Rachel Ledet: you know, teams that are presenting in an actual pursuit format from, you know, someone who's just like presenting information well and someone who's building trust? What have you kind of seen when sort of the light switch goes on? Maybe explain a few factors that you've witnessed.
Kene: You you hit the nail on the head, trust. Trust. The the the person who is listening to you it they're asking themselves, does this person care about me? Do they understand my issue? And are they focused on solving my problem? Or are they more focused on selling me on their company?
Rachel Ledet: Who's listening to you if they're asking themselves, does this person care about me? Do they understand my issue? And are they focused on solving my problem, or are they more focused on selling me on their
Kene: If the person knows that your focus is solving their problem, you're building trust faster. And you get into that thing of okay, if they feel safe with you, they will want to find out more about you. And and and it works whether you are, you know, it's an RFP or even just talking with a group of
Rachel Ledet: the person knows that your focus is solving their problem, you're building trust faster. And you get into that thing of okay, if they feel safe with you, they will want to find out more about Yeah, and and and it works whether you are, you know, it's an RFP or even just talking with a group of
Kene: people, at a conference. It's all about what can you do for me? Trust is the big currency right there.
Rachel Ledet: at a conference. It's all what can the evil do for me. Trust that's the big currency, right?
Christianne Brunini: I think one of the other things that these technical people struggle with when it comes to presenting skills, whether that's in an audience or on at a conference or in a pursuit, is that they're not all extroverts, right? So they're used to being either behind a screen with their technical skills, or for a contractor, maybe that's in the field and more more comfortable in a physicality.
Rachel Ledet: think one of the other things that these technical people struggle with when it comes to presenting skills, whether that's in an audience or on at a conference or in a pursuit, is that they're not all extroverts, right? So they're used to being either behind a screen with their technical skills, or for a contractor maybe that's in the field and more more comfortable in a physicality.
Christianne Brunini: versus an expressive modality. So what do you do with people who are maybe aren't naturally charismatic and how do you help them, you know, communicate better without having to change their personality?
Rachel Ledet: versus an expressive modality. So what do you do with people who are maybe aren't naturally charismatic and how do you help them, you know, communicate better without having to change their perspective?
Kene: So I short answer, then I'll give an explanation because there's something that I I feel I need to correct there, which a lot of people say. Anyone can be a good presenter. Anyone. Anyone. Now extroversion, introversion, and this is a a misconception it a lot of people have. Extroverts and introverts have absolutely nothing to do with
Rachel Ledet: So I'll short answer then I'll give an explanation because there's something that I I feel I need to correct there, which a lot of people say anyone can be a good presenter. Anyone and anyone. Now extroversion, introversion and this is a a misconception if a lot of people extroverts and introverts have absolutely nothing to do with
Kene: Extroverts liking people or liking to be out front and introverts being withdrawn. Extroversion and introversion have to do with how energy is gained and how energy is lost. Extroverts are energized by people engagement. Introverts are depleted by people engagement. So you can have shy extroverts and you can have outgoing introverts.
Rachel Ledet: Extroverts liking people or liking to be outfront and introverts meaning with drawn. Extroversion and introversion have to do with how energy is gained and how energy is lost. Extroverts are energized by people engagement. Introverts are depleted by people engagement. So you can have shy and you can have outgoing introverts.
Kene: But the outgoing introvert, they might have a bandwidth of okay, I'm going to interact with people for two hours. After two hours, don't email me, don't text me, I don't want to see you. We're done. Okay. With with we're done. Now, in the context of presentation, communication, it has absolutely nothing to do with your personality.
Rachel Ledet: But the outgoing introvert, they might have a bandwidth of, okay, I'm going to interact with people for two hours. After two hours, don't email me, email me, don't text me, I don't want to see you. We're done. Okay. We're we're we're done. Now in the context of presentation, communication, it has absolutely nothing to do with your personality.
Kene: It it when people try to act out of character, that's where it gets into people say, Wow, there's something inauthentic about this person. And trust starts to erode. And so I tell people, listen, be yourself. Be yourself. Whether you're an extrovert or an introvert, you can speak with good energy because nobody wants to listen to a boring person.
Rachel Ledet: it it when people try to act out of character that's where it gets into people say wow there's something inauthentic about this person and trust starts to erode and so I tell people listen be yourself be yourself whether you're an extrovert or an introvert you can speak with good energy because nobody wants to listen to a boring person
Kene: speak with good energy, just speak with some life when you're presenting. Everybody wants to have a good time when they're listening to a presenter. The funny thing is that the interesting thing a lot of people don't know, a lot of actors, a lot of comedians, a lot of people that command stage presence are actually introverts.
Rachel Ledet: Speak with good energy, just speak with some light when you're presenting. Everybody wants to have a good time when they're listed for a presenter. The funny thing is that the interesting thing a lot of people don't know, a lot of actors, a lot of comedians, a lot of people that command age presence are actually introverts.
Kene: Because they're talking to so many people, it's not a conversation. So they can be on stage for two hours, after that they're gone. They don't want to be at parties, they don't want to go network. No.
Rachel Ledet: because they're talking to so many people it's not a conversation. So they can be on stage for two hours. After that, they're gone. They don't want to be up partying, they don't want to go network.
Kene: So so regardless of what your personality is, you can be a good presenter. Don't try to change who you are or how you are. to do that.
Rachel Ledet: So so regardless of what your personality is, you can be a good presenter. Don't try to change who you are or how you are. to do that. Well, and I think energy is sort of an interesting point because Chris and I laugh a lot about we're both more battery filled by people and activities and events and we don't get as drained. If you send us both to a conference for like a week, we sort of poop out at the end. But we we are we can talk all day long and still be talking at dinner. And so we don't get drained as as much as sort of the introverts. And I I do think as a generalization, people who aren't depleted can talk longer in public settings because they're just not having that sort of w withdrawn moment. Although we all need rest. That is true. I think the interesting thing about sort of, you know, just categorizing people who maybe get more battery refill in a quieter space is having good planning so that you know, like to your point about the comedian, you know when you're gonna be on stage. And if you're prepared for that, then you can sort of Time gather your energy points. I'm like imagining
Kene: Exactly.
Rachel Ledet: like Super Nintendo, you know, 1995 or something. You have to like save the the little battery so that you can be a good energetic version of yourself and show show your personality in that way. And then also schedule to have recuperation time so that you are able to do that. And certainly the preparation. And the comfort that comes with practice. And a lot of people don't want to spend time practicing. I know that
Kene: Mm.
Rachel Ledet: practice is a sort of a big thing that you have harped on in the past. I've I've seen it. And so people don't want to practice
Kene: Yes.
Rachel Ledet: because it feels weird. But when you have practice, you are not so burnt out in the moment because your brain has kind of lived it a few times. And so I
Kene: Yeah.
Rachel Ledet: think that's like maybe an important point for anyone listening who does have. a team who does pursuits or will be doing a pursuit is really investing the time in, you know, knowing the timeline of how long you're gonna be on a stage or in front of people, knowing before and after to schedule rest or practice and kind of having a lot of thoughtfulness about it. Because just because you know how to do the thing doesn't mean you're gonna demonstrate that well in in a room. And so I think, you know, having that foresight is almost more important than like the day of because you've you've run it, you've figured out the storytelling, you know, you figured out the handoffs. There's all these like little tools when you have a a coach that can tell you, you know, you're not just shooting from the hip. So I I think that that layer of practice actually makes this authenticity part easier. Because
Kene: Right.
Rachel Ledet: because it can feel more natural. So I'm just I'm remembering some you know, my little my training things. Yeah. Yeah.
Kene: I'm like, y you're making me proud. I'm like, I I did my job well. I did my job well ten years and she still remembers this. It it's yeah. And and the funny thing is You can imagine how many pursuit coaching sessions I've been in and they're pushing back or working with a G C or going in to do one of those sessions and they tell and they you know, they always say, Well, we don't have the time to practice. We don't have time and then I always come back and say, Well, do you have the time to earn the contract? Do you want the contract? Do you want the job? They're like, Yeah, we want the job. Well.
Rachel Ledet: Don't time and then I always come back and say, Well, do you have the time to burn the contract? Do you want the contract? Do you want the job? They're like, Yeah, we want the job. Well, okay. Gotta make the time to practice. There's no shortcut. Absolutely fifty million dollar project, a hundred million dollar project, and you say you can't spare two days to practice, well go figure. Right.
Kene: Okay, you've got to make the time to practice. There's no shortcut. Absolutely it's a fifty million dollar project, a hundred million dollar project, and you say you can't spare two days to practice. Well, go figure.
Rachel Ledet: Well, it's like a put your money where your mouth is situation, you know.
Kene: Yeah.
Rachel Ledet: that's very true. Speaking of trust building and authenticity, AI is a really big topic lately. And whether you're developing content or representing your company, you know, just kind of what are your thoughts about AI in the workplace and you know, just leadership in general with this new tool that is being widely use and is changing every day and maybe just something that business leaders should think about in regards to AI from, the last six months of what you've seen.
Kene: Yeah. it's definitely changing
Rachel Ledet: It's definitely changed.
Kene: the workplace and how we do work. But what I would tell people is one, play with the tool, but trust your people more than the tool. And when I when and when I say trust your people People get things done. People are the ones that represent your brand, not the technology. You have to put emphasis on the people, empower the people with the tools. And you know, encourage your people to use the different tools out there. Figure out the tools that are relevant to your industry. Let them play with it. Pay for the enterprise version of.
Rachel Ledet: People get things done. People are the ones that represent your brand, not the technology. You have to put emphasis on the people, empower the people with the tools. And you know, encourage your people to use the different tools out there. Figure out the tools that are relevant to your industry. Let them play with it. Pay for the enterprise version of.
Kene: Whatever tool, B, Chat, GPT, Claude, whatever it is, play with it. But know that it's the human in the loop that drives your business forward.
Rachel Ledet: whatever to be chat dplaw whatever it is play with it but know that it's the human in the group that drives your business forward.
Kene: Yeah it it it hurts me when I hear all these things about companies saying okay because of AI they're eliminating ten thousand jobs. It it's and then a few months after they're like, oops, we need to hire people
Rachel Ledet: And it it it hurts me when I hear all these things about companies saying, Okay, because of AI they're eliminating ten thousand jobs. And then a few months after they're like, oops, we need to hire people.
Kene: back
Rachel Ledet: Yeah, well our joke and we use AI a good bit, but our joke is like, you know, the robots are still robots and we use it to accelerate things, but it still has
Kene: Yes.
Rachel Ledet: to have good inputs. We still have to correct it. We still have to do final edits. and so Christian is a a very big proponent of especially Claude tools lately. And we've used it not a lot for marketing,
Kene: Love love.
Rachel Ledet: but a lot for like financial projections and sort of the nerdy side of running a business. So we do a lot with you know, Claude does really well with spreadsheets. So we've been playing
Kene: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Ledet: with it lot, but it's still broken. a lot of the times and we're still fixing and and teaching it and who knows where we'll be in a few years. But s I I love you just your reminder that the people are the ones who are the doers and the AI is the tool. And there's a happy line where we can use the people and the tool to get better outcomes, maybe more efficiently, but that we can't just, you know, we're not on the Jetsons just yet. So we can't exactly trust all the robots to take over. at least not in our world. So every now and then something really weird comes out of AI and we're like, well, you know, at least we all have jobs for a while because that was not good. well thank you for that. That's some great feedback.
Kene: Yeah. The truth is the every emerging, every tech technology that has come out has there's been the panic of like, this is gonna change the world. This is people are going to lose this and that. It's shifted how people work. But again, maybe this goes back to my faith. The the earth was created for man, not for robots and machines. So man will always have a place. Human beings will always have a place. We have to
Rachel Ledet: For man, not for robots and machines. So man will always have a place. Human beings will always have a place. We have to
Kene: make space for people to learn how to use the tools. And that would make them more efficient.
Rachel Ledet: make space for people to learn how to use the tool. That will make them more efficient.
Christianne Brunini: Well, speaking of people, I heard you say you had a landscape company and then I think maybe you also ran a moving company. So tell me a little bit about how those businesses helped shape and what lessons did you learn about customer service and people through operating those businesses.
Rachel Ledet: Well speaking of people, I heard you say y you had a landscape company and then I think maybe you also ran a moving company. So tell me a little bit about how those businesses helped shape and what lessons did you learn about customer service in people through operating those businesses?
Kene: Interesting question. The biggest lesson I learned about customer service is
Rachel Ledet: Interesting question. Biggest lesson I learned about customer service is
Kene: it's not just about solving the problem. Great customer service is not about solving the problem. It it it's yes, solve the problem, but great customer service starts when the customer
Rachel Ledet: It's not just about solving the problem. Great customer service is not about solving the It it it's yes, solve the problem, but great customer service starts when the customer
Kene: feel like you care about them and you really want to solve their problem.
Rachel Ledet: feels like you care about them and you really want to solve their problem.
Kene: Because you can solve the problem but the person just feels like, Okay, I'm one in a million, all right. It's just a it's just a job. Next. But when the person feels like, Wow, this person really cares about me, it makes a big difference. It as as I don't know how many times you guys have moved.
Rachel Ledet: Because you can solve the problem but the person just feels like, Okay, I'm one in a million, alright. It's just a it's just a job. Next but when the person feels like, Wow, this person really cares about me it makes a big difference that as as I don't know how many times you guys have moved.
Kene: But moving is moving is tricky okay, okay.
Rachel Ledet: A lot. Yeah. We both moved a good bit, but but Chris has an award in her office for how many times she's moved.
Kene: So so you have it down patch, right? You've got a system.
Christianne Brunini: Yes.
Kene: Moving is stressful. Moving is very, very, very stressful. And I realized that walking into someone's house to give an estimate, I had this opportunity to help them relax and feel good about the move. Because people are thinking about packing. Well, I get boxes. What am I gonna do with cleanup? There's so much that going through.
Rachel Ledet: Are thinking about packing, don't I get boxes? What am I going to do with there's so much they're going through? But I learned to listen, and whenever they start to raise a big concern, I'll just say, no, this is how we take care of this, and you could just sense that level of anxiety and tension coming down to the point where they were like, they're actually excited about you know.
Kene: But I learned to listen and whenever they start to raise a big concern, I was just like, no, this this is how we'll take care of this. And you could just sense that level of anxiety and tension coming down to the point where they were like they were actually excited about you know the day of the moon. They show up and they'd have coffee and all that waiting for you. that for me was a
Rachel Ledet: The day of the move, you show up and they have often all that waiting for That for me was a big lesson. It's not just about solving the but letting the person know that you care about them and you really want that problem.
Kene: Big lesson. It's not just about solving the problem, but letting the person know that you care about them and you really want to solve their problem.
Rachel Ledet: I feel like you're saying empathy, and not just showing up with the answer, but really being empathetic to the different levels of fear, concern, trepidation, all of those things. So I I love that and I wanted to make sure we brought that in and I do think that entrepreneurs of any type always have glimmers of takeaways that they've learned from their business life, even if they're in a different sort of business now. So that's a fun question to be able to ask you. Okay. So Yeah.
Kene: Thanks for asking that question. I don't nobody has ever in all the podcasts I've done, no one has ever asked me that question. No one.
Rachel Ledet: Well, we are professional question askers. So we we walk around with a clipboard just asking everyone we know questions. It's sort of it's sort of our favorite thing to do. So thank you for that compliment. okay,
Kene: I love it I love it, I love it.
Rachel Ledet: so last big question. If there was one thing that any leader could do that's a small change tomorrow that would have a great lasting impact on their team, what would it be?
Kene: I'd say Figure out the two or three people you will develop to replace you.
Rachel Ledet: That's big.
Kene: It is, it is. But figure out the two or three people you would develop to replace you because If you have two or three more people who can do everything or as much as you can, you've increased the capacity and efficiency of your team, which has increased the capacity of the company.
Rachel Ledet: increase the capacity and efficiency of your team, which has increased the capacity of
Kene: And so I always tell that whenever I work with leaders, I'm like, you have to make replacing yourself a priority. Work yourself out of a job. Now not not everybody wants to hear that.
Rachel Ledet: So I always tell whenever I work with leaders I'm like you have to make replacing yourself a priority. Work yourself out of a Now not not everybody wants to hear that.
Kene: But that is true leadership. That is true leadership. Replacing yourself.
Rachel Ledet: But that is true leadership. That is true leadership. Replacing yourself. That's powerful and and a a big part of using EOS, the entrepreneurial operating system that our team's been using and that we work with clients on is sort of like a simplified version of building for the future, building for sustainability and really getting out of your own way and It is hard to delegate. It is hard to identify that next group of people. It's it's hard to stop and teach. It's hard to, you know, spend dollars on professional development. All of those things are hard. It's really, really challenging. And I've been doing a lot of reading about sort of that entrepreneurial transfer. And so I think it's really interesting that you brought it up today. I I literally have, I think, three books I'm reading right now that deal with different things. And I I see your bookshelf behind you. it's It's so simple, but it's so hard. So I love that. And certainly you help executives with those processes. And so that's a great tidbit. So that concludes our QA session. And we have sort of a favorite part that we like to do at the end where we ask a few rapid fire questions that are just sort of like top of mind, give us give us like your quick feedback. You know, each one can just be a few seconds, but we'd love to just, you know. get to know you a little bit more. So Chris, take it away.
Christianne Brunini: Well, you're in Atlanta and so many of us end up in Atlanta for conferences. It is a huge draw for Atlanta. So when we're there, what is one restaurant, experience, or hidden gem that we need to make sure that we spend
Rachel Ledet: Huge draw for Atlanta. So when we're there, what is one restaurant, experience, or hidden gem that we need to make sure that?
Christianne Brunini: time to discover?
Kene: There's a restaurant in I think it's in Claremont right off of P T Cab Airport. It used it's called fifty seventh Fighter Battalion or something like that. It's on the runway.
Rachel Ledet: in I think it's in Claremont right off of Hab Airport. We used to call fifty seven like a battalion or something like that. It's on the runway.
Kene: It's it's it's on the runway and I love the I don't know now I hope it's still there because I haven't been there in a in a while, but it used to be somewhere we'd go like once a month.
Rachel Ledet: It's it's it's on the runway and I love I don't know now. I hope it's still there because I haven't been there in a while. But it used to be somewhere we'd go like once a month. Sunday brunch, oof. You just call an Uber because you're big out.
Kene: Sunday brunch, oof. You just call an Uber because you'd pig out. Yeah.
Rachel Ledet: Awesome. We'll have to check that out when we're in town l next time. Okay, next question. What is one leadership myth that you wish would disappear forever?
Kene: The leader knows everything. It it the the yeah, most times the leader The best leaders surround themselves with people who know more than them. So the leader doesn't know everything, the leader should not know everything, the leader should know their lane, but should also be confident enough to hire people that know more than them.
Christianne Brunini: Valuable lesson. You've also coached hundreds of professionals.
Rachel Ledet: You've also coached hundreds of professionals.
Christianne Brunini: What's one word people use to describe great leaders that you think is entirely overrated?
Rachel Ledet: leaders that you think is entirely over r rated.
Kene: Entirely overrated.
Rachel Ledet: Entirely overrated?
Christianne Brunini: Overrated.
Kene: One word that people use to describe leaders that is overrated. That's a tough one. That's a that that no that you stopped me right there. You stopped me right there.
Rachel Ledet: That's a tough one. Wait, maybe like one characteristic of of leaders that's overrated and not not as necessary as people think.
Kene: Yeah, that the the the the leader has to be bold. You know that they don't have fear. That's that's nonsense. Often a lot of leaders I work with as a fr they're they're scared as the people they're leading, they they're just
Rachel Ledet: They are scared at the people that are leading it, they're just
Kene: determined to press on.
Rachel Ledet: That's great. Yeah. Well, We have loved talking to you today, Kanae. And for anyone listening, we would love to point them in the direction of finding out more about you. So can you share how our listeners can find you online?
Kene: Talentrevolution.me www.talentrevolution.me That's my website and then you can look for me on LinkedIn Kene Iloenossi.
Rachel Ledet: Yeah. Can I light your seat? Wonderful. Well, we will share the link in our show notes. We are so appreciative of your time today. It's great to just catch up with you and also to introduce you to Christian. And we cannot wait to see what your coaching business does from here. Thank you for giving us your insights on all professionals, but specifically AEC professionals, and hopefully we'll get to see you either on this side or or your side at some point soon. We'll have to make that happen. Thank you. It's been it's been a pleasure and good to meet you, Chris. And
Kene: Thank you. It's been it's a it's been a pleasure and good to meet you, Chris, and The last time we talked, Rachel, I I th I remember the name of the restaurant I told you where they have the alligator cheesecake.
Rachel Ledet: Mm-hmm. Is it Giacomo's? Yes, the Giacomo's. Yeah. We were talking right after I spoke with you, we were we were laughing about funny Cajun New Orleans y foods and that thing. that Kenne was like, No, I can't I can't go there. I can eat all the things, but that's just weird. And I agreed because I don't like alligator either, even though I'm a Louisiana girl. But and Chris is a trained chef, so we we talk a lot about food around here and it's just weird.
Kene: around like train chef, train chef to marketing. Okay, that's that's another show. Well that's an offline conversation.
Rachel Ledet: Yes.
Kene: Yeah. My mind is running. So thank you so much.
Rachel Ledet: Well thanks.
Christianne Brunini: You. It was so pleasure to meet you.
Kene: Likewise, likewise. And I and I'm excited of
Rachel Ledet: Excited.
Kene: what you all have ahead of you at thirty ninety. congratulations on what you've you guys have achieved. It's it's it's just amazing to hear the
Rachel Ledet: Just amazing to hear
Kene: progress from the years when we met and when we
Rachel Ledet: Yeah, we've had some winning.
Kene: when when when you left your last company. I'm just excited for you.
Rachel Ledet: excited. Just excited for you. Thank you so much. It's been great and we hope to see you very soon.
Kene: Alrighty. Take care.
Rachel Ledet: Thanks for listening to the Comms Exchange, a podcast by 3090 Marketing. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please be sure to follow or subscribe so you don't miss out on an exciting new episode. We'll be back soon with more stories and strategies from the field because every breakthrough begins with a conversation.
