WEBVTT
00:00:00.080 -->
00:00:01.439This is gonna be a good one, Hugo.
00:00:01.600 -->
00:00:03.200The Brad Wiseman Show.
00:00:03.359 -->
00:00:06.959Real people, real life, and everything in between.
00:00:07.200 -->
00:00:08.320So, what do your kids think of this?
00:00:08.400 -->
00:00:10.000Oh yeah, so embarrassing.
00:00:10.080 -->
00:00:11.839I'm not here for the money, but I'll still take it.
00:00:11.919 -->
00:00:12.560I'll still take it.
00:00:13.279 -->
00:00:17.120Unfiltered conversations with the people shaping our world.
00:00:17.280 -->
00:00:20.239Because you're judging yourself by your intentions, they're judging you by your actions.
00:00:20.480 -->
00:00:20.879Exactly right.
00:00:21.039 -->
00:00:27.920You know, my wife said to me, You go to work and you give everyone the Mitchell buffet, and you come home and you give me the scraps.
00:00:28.079 -->
00:00:31.359And now your host, Brad Wiseman.
00:00:31.679 -->
00:00:33.119All right, Hugo.
00:00:33.359 -->
00:00:35.759We we have a different one here for you, man.
00:00:35.920 -->
00:00:36.240All right.
00:00:36.399 -->
00:00:38.000I'm throwing in something a little different.
00:00:38.079 -->
00:00:40.960I mean, we, you know, we normally do a lot of leadership stuff.
00:00:41.119 -->
00:00:49.920We do, you know, mindset, we do thought leaders, we do people that you know we've we've interviewed have had tragic things happen in our lives and come back from that.
00:00:50.159 -->
00:00:56.159And, you know, we are today gonna talk about the leader, or they sometimes call him the king of pop.
00:00:56.560 -->
00:00:56.880Whoa.
00:00:57.119 -->
00:00:58.640Yeah, do you like how I worked that in there?
00:00:58.719 -->
00:00:59.119You like that?
00:00:59.679 -->
00:01:00.960Sometimes call him the king of pop.
00:01:01.359 -->
00:01:03.520We're gonna talk about Michael Jackson today.
00:01:03.759 -->
00:01:10.879Of all things, Michael Jackson, because you know, he was so special in my life growing up and in my musical uh career and entertainment.
00:01:11.040 -->
00:01:18.400And I was scrolling through Instagram, and all of a sudden I see this guy, but his name's Jermaine, he's from Australia.
00:01:18.480 -->
00:01:21.680He has a radio show, and this is I'm gonna just announce who what it is.
00:01:21.840 -->
00:01:25.200Radio hosts, a national on-air announcer for Australia's Nova Network.
00:01:25.359 -->
00:01:27.439He hosts the music and nostalgia program.
00:01:27.599 -->
00:01:30.719It's called On Air with Jermaine, and it is phenomenal.
00:01:30.799 -->
00:01:36.239He brings out all this cool music from Michael Jackson that you've never heard before, and that's why he's gonna be on the show tonight.
00:01:36.560 -->
00:01:37.519Oh wow, Australia's gonna be.
00:01:37.680 -->
00:01:38.239Let's go, man.
00:01:38.480 -->
00:01:39.040Jermaine.
00:01:40.319 -->
00:01:41.599Hey Brad, how are you?
00:01:41.760 -->
00:01:42.480What's up, man?
00:01:42.560 -->
00:01:43.439How are you doing?
00:01:43.920 -->
00:01:44.719I'm good, man.
00:01:44.799 -->
00:01:45.120I'm good.
00:01:45.200 -->
00:01:49.439It's a beautiful, actually, it was a very rainy and foggy morning here in Sydney.
00:01:49.840 -->
00:01:51.760Um, and now it's finally cleared up.
00:01:51.840 -->
00:01:56.879We're seeing some sun, and I I'm I'm just glad to see a little bit of blue in the sky.
00:01:57.040 -->
00:01:57.760So I'm good.
00:01:57.840 -->
00:01:58.560I'm happy now.
00:01:58.719 -->
00:01:59.439It's the right time.
00:01:59.680 -->
00:02:00.079That's right.
00:02:00.239 -->
00:02:01.840So is this your winter or your summer?
00:02:02.000 -->
00:02:03.040This is your winter or no?
00:02:03.280 -->
00:02:04.000This is our winter.
00:02:04.079 -->
00:02:05.920We're at the the the end of our winter.
00:02:06.159 -->
00:02:07.599Spring's next.
00:02:07.840 -->
00:02:15.360And yeah, in Sydney, you would probably expect a bit more sun right now, but our winters are usually uh a little bit more sunny, but uh it's it's nice.
00:02:15.599 -->
00:02:17.439Yeah, we we had some thunderstorms today.
00:02:17.520 -->
00:02:19.039We had a lot of rain this afternoon.
00:02:19.199 -->
00:02:23.039You're now, you know, we're still in in one day and you're in the next morning already.
00:02:23.120 -->
00:02:25.039So it's it's kind of interesting how that works.
00:02:25.199 -->
00:02:27.759But uh, I am just so excited to have you on.
00:02:28.000 -->
00:02:30.159I was scrolling through Instagram.
00:02:30.240 -->
00:02:34.879I I don't even know how this happened, and it just is maybe it's because of my algorithms and and things like that.
00:02:35.039 -->
00:02:48.080But I was going through and all of a sudden I heard I saw you, and then I saw something about Michael Jackson, and then I I started listening to it, and there was this song that was playing called Remember What I Told You, which I had never heard before.
00:02:48.240 -->
00:02:50.080And I think you might even have it queued up.
00:02:50.159 -->
00:02:52.080Did you want to do you want to play that just so people know?
00:02:53.039 -->
00:02:54.879Let me play a bit at fee now.
00:03:06.080 -->
00:03:07.520He rips for a little bit, but he's a little bit more.
00:03:07.680 -->
00:03:08.560Yeah, I know it's awesome.
00:03:08.800 -->
00:03:10.560Can you can you do play by I love it?
00:03:10.639 -->
00:03:11.599Listen to that.
00:03:12.960 -->
00:03:17.280Four and remember what I told you.
00:03:17.680 -->
00:03:18.479Amazing.
00:03:18.800 -->
00:03:21.360And remember four times.
00:04:05.759 -->
00:04:06.719Dude, wow.
00:04:07.120 -->
00:04:07.599You know what?
00:04:07.840 -->
00:04:10.240Seriously, I still I got chills again.
00:04:10.560 -->
00:04:10.960Yeah.
00:04:11.520 -->
00:04:13.439It's a real spiritual experience listening to that.
00:04:13.599 -->
00:04:22.240It is and you know, what is cool, what's really cool about what I loved, what we never we didn't get to hear a lot as Michael Jackson fans.
00:04:22.399 -->
00:04:24.480He was such a such a perfectionist.
00:04:24.959 -->
00:04:35.360You never heard the practice, you never heard the the tracks where he was working on something, you know, and since he's passed, now we hear that.
00:04:35.680 -->
00:04:43.040You know, like that track right there, you hear him talking, and he's like, you know, he's in the studio, and that's the part that makes it feel so real.
00:04:43.600 -->
00:04:44.319Oh yeah.
00:04:45.360 -->
00:04:58.399There's such a heartbeat into those demos, I think, because the one thing that I really I I've learned about Michael is when he does his demos, he's not really a lyrical person.
00:04:58.560 -->
00:05:02.160Yeah, he kind of likes to like like you're hearing a lot of riffs and a lot of melodies.
00:05:02.480 -->
00:05:05.120So you're you're really just getting the feeling.
00:05:05.279 -->
00:05:07.519That's what he's giving you in this demo.
00:05:07.759 -->
00:05:13.120And especially with this, you know, which is considered one of the last recordings ever made.
00:05:13.279 -->
00:05:19.680Wow, you feel like just like there's a bit of pain in it, there's a joy, there's elevation.
00:05:19.759 -->
00:05:21.040There's a lot of tiredness.
00:05:21.279 -->
00:05:23.680Do you feel tiredness in some of his stuff right before he passed?
00:05:23.839 -->
00:05:24.160Oh, yeah.
00:05:24.480 -->
00:05:29.759Like I feel a little bit, I feel a little bit of like and I just hear in his voice that he's just a little tired.
00:05:30.959 -->
00:05:39.439Yeah, I mean, God, it it it it breaks my heart when you're hearing people say that because it was such a tiring time of his life.
00:05:39.600 -->
00:06:01.439Like the I wish I wish we could look back at the last few years of his life and see it with joy, or that something that something beautiful happened and it was on its way, you know, like everyone was looking forward to these 50 shows that he um was going to do in London, um, which ultimately led to you know to his passing.
00:06:01.680 -->
00:06:02.959It was on its way there.
00:06:03.040 -->
00:06:07.680And unfortunately, it all just kind of you know, just it didn't end in the right way.
00:06:07.839 -->
00:06:15.279So when you talk about exhaustion and tiredness, Michael was truly living that, especially in the later years of his life, yeah, really badly.
00:06:15.600 -->
00:06:17.120Well, obviously, he needed help to sleep.
00:06:17.199 -->
00:06:31.040I mean, that's something that obviously that it was an issue, is that he wasn't able to sleep from what we've what I know and from what I've heard, you know, from the press is that yeah he was he was suffering from from being able to sleep because of anxious feelings and anxiety and things like that, which is just terrible.
00:06:31.199 -->
00:06:31.600It's horrible.
00:06:31.759 -->
00:06:43.040Yeah, I mean what I what I'm hearing, what I've heard is from uh multiple accounts is that he only agreed to do 10 shows for the This Is It tour, and it they ramped up to 50.
00:06:43.120 -->
00:06:48.240Oh and Michael has always been a mess when it comes to rehearsing for tours and for concerts.
00:06:48.480 -->
00:06:53.199So can you imagine at 50 years old being expected to do 50 shows and pressure?
00:06:53.439 -->
00:06:55.439Of course you wouldn't sleep, of course you'd be anxious.
00:06:55.519 -->
00:06:55.680Yeah.
00:06:55.920 -->
00:06:58.639So well, and the thing is too, he he's like no other.
00:06:58.720 -->
00:07:10.720You know, I don't know of any other any other star, any other performer that literally would practice night and day doing dance and doing what he did in order to perform and make it perfect for everybody.
00:07:10.879 -->
00:07:16.720I mean, that's just there's no I don't know of anybody to this day yet that is that that is up to his par.
00:07:16.800 -->
00:07:17.279I just don't.
00:07:17.360 -->
00:07:19.839And I'm not turning, I'm not trying to put down other artists.
00:07:19.920 -->
00:07:22.959There's tons of great artists out there, wonderful artists.
00:07:23.120 -->
00:07:24.079But there was something about it.
00:07:24.240 -->
00:07:27.920I said to my daughter the other day, and I think I put this on Instagram when I was talking to you, maybe.
00:07:28.079 -->
00:07:34.160You know, he was the only artist that I ever saw that when he sang, he sang with his entire body.
00:07:34.319 -->
00:07:37.519Okay, like I I'm a singer, so I sang for many, many years.
00:07:37.600 -->
00:07:41.680I was, you know, on Star Search back in the day when it was popular here in the United States.
00:07:41.920 -->
00:07:44.720And, you know, you sing, you sing and you sing.
00:07:44.879 -->
00:07:51.279A lot of times you sing with your soul, you sing with you know, that kind of a thing, but he sang with every single inch of his body.
00:07:51.600 -->
00:07:54.800Everything moved while he was singing, everything was like involved in it.
00:07:54.879 -->
00:07:56.079It was just incredible.
00:07:56.879 -->
00:08:01.839I think Michael, he always calls himself an instrument of nature.
00:08:02.399 -->
00:08:10.000That's and he believes that he kind of just provides what's coming to him from the source out to an audience.
00:08:10.079 -->
00:08:34.240And when you when you see your work in that way, no matter if you're a singer, if you're a dancer, if you're a broadcaster, podcaster, anything that you're you're emitting art out to an audience, it's a beautiful way to kind of show expression because you know you can train as much as you want to be the best vocalist, but what Michael did is he really spiritually connected with his work and never took credit for it.
00:08:34.480 -->
00:08:47.440And I think that's how he moved while he sang, and that's how he became just this huge luminary because to him it wasn't just a song or it wasn't a vocal performance, it was it was God moving through him.
00:08:47.759 -->
00:08:48.559Good point, good point.
00:08:48.720 -->
00:08:54.240So, how did you so do you remember your earliest times of getting into his music or or singing his stuff?
00:08:54.320 -->
00:08:56.639And I know you're a dancer too from reading some of your stuff.
00:08:56.960 -->
00:09:01.519Now, do you remember like getting that bug or getting hooked by the Michael Bug thing?
00:09:02.240 -->
00:09:13.200Not really, because I grew up like I as a baby, I was I was a witness to Michael Jackson's videos and you know, to kind of shut us up as kids because I have a twin brother.
00:09:13.279 -->
00:09:18.879So me and my twin, we would just sit in front of the TV and just just watch a lot of Michael, watch a lot of Janet.
00:09:19.039 -->
00:09:24.960And so I think it's kind of innate in us to to feel Michael's magic.
00:09:25.279 -->
00:09:45.279But I would have to say the first memory that I have of anything involving Michael Jackson was at a wedding that they were pressuring my brother and I to dance because I apparently used to dance like like Michael when I was very, very little, and I made the decision to go and do it myself because my my brother was too shy.
00:09:45.759 -->
00:09:54.159And that's my first memory of ever engaging with Michael's music was just the whole wedding watching me dance, Michael.
00:09:54.480 -->
00:09:59.440I think that's the first, either that or the fact that I was like traumatized from watching Thriller.
00:10:00.080 -->
00:10:06.320I was like, I was very young, and so I can't tell what memory was which memory was earlier.
00:10:06.559 -->
00:10:06.720Right.
00:10:06.879 -->
00:10:08.080But it was one of those.
00:10:08.159 -->
00:10:08.480Yeah.
00:10:08.720 -->
00:10:11.360You mean you mean the album that was supposed to be a terrible album?
00:10:11.519 -->
00:10:12.720The critics said it was gonna be horrible.
00:10:13.360 -->
00:10:14.320Oh, can you believe that, Brad?
00:10:14.639 -->
00:10:16.960I just saw I just saw your post of that, man.
00:10:17.039 -->
00:10:18.399I'm just sitting there shaking my head.
00:10:18.559 -->
00:10:19.200And you know what?
00:10:19.279 -->
00:10:27.759That's that's a testament to anybody that is wondering if their music's good or if they're dancing well enough or if they're doing the right thing at work or whatever.
00:10:27.919 -->
00:10:29.279Don't go by your critics.
00:10:29.519 -->
00:10:32.000I mean, that that album was supposed to bomb.
00:10:32.240 -->
00:10:33.600Thriller was supposed to bomb.
00:10:33.679 -->
00:10:35.600I remember you've been saying the last three songs.
00:10:35.759 -->
00:10:39.600Wasn't it PYT Human Nature, where the ones are supposedly the worst, and there's another one?
00:10:39.840 -->
00:10:40.080Yeah.
00:10:40.240 -->
00:10:43.679Yeah, the beta was one of the songs that's unbelievable.
00:10:44.080 -->
00:10:47.279Quincy was like, We're not gonna put this on the album, and and they did.
00:10:47.840 -->
00:10:48.159Unbelievable.
00:10:48.399 -->
00:10:53.840But no, yeah, it's funny because that I'm not sure if you know, but that album was actually doomed to not even release.
00:10:54.159 -->
00:10:55.039Oh my gosh.
00:10:55.759 -->
00:11:00.559So they had a few weeks to to record and edit Thriller.
00:11:01.200 -->
00:11:16.639And Quincy, Michael, Bruce Swedean were in the studio making this, and then when they they rushed the job pretty much, and when they when they gave this the the the the first kind of draft or whatever to the record labels, the the labels hated it.
00:11:16.799 -->
00:11:17.519They did not like it.
00:11:17.759 -->
00:11:23.440And Michael didn't like it, and he uh begged for Quincy and Bruce to abandon the album.
00:11:23.600 -->
00:11:24.399Don't release it.
00:11:24.559 -->
00:11:26.559It's like it's this this this cannot happen.
00:11:26.720 -->
00:11:28.480And he was heartbroken by it.
00:11:28.559 -->
00:11:31.519But then Bruce Odean, who was the engineer, yeah.
00:11:31.600 -->
00:11:32.960He's one of the best engineers ever.
00:11:33.519 -->
00:11:35.600Yeah, he then was like, Give me some time.
00:11:35.759 -->
00:11:43.840He went back in the studio, mixed the entire thing, and that's what you that's what the world got, and is now the biggest selling album of all time.
00:11:43.919 -->
00:11:44.639And you know crazy.
00:11:44.799 -->
00:11:49.039I was just thinking like, what m what would life be without human nature, without PYT?
00:11:49.200 -->
00:11:52.879You know, what would life be with thr without thriller every Halloween we hear that song?
00:11:52.960 -->
00:11:53.840I mean, you know what I mean?
00:11:53.919 -->
00:11:56.480It's like what would what would the world have been without that album?
00:11:56.559 -->
00:11:58.639It's it's just incredible that it almost didn't happen.
00:11:59.200 -->
00:12:07.120You know what's so funny is that with especially with human nature, this song has had such a huge resurgence this year because of the movie.
00:12:07.519 -->
00:12:09.200I I was in in Perth.
00:12:09.279 -->
00:12:13.759Perth is in Western Australia, it's a very isolated area in Australia where my family is.
00:12:13.919 -->
00:12:20.080And there was a little boy who's kind of a family friend, and he was just like, put on human nature, human nature.
00:12:20.240 -->
00:12:22.159I'm like, what do you mean put on human nature?
00:12:22.320 -->
00:12:28.240Like how, like, even people of my age didn't know what human nature was until that movie came out.
00:12:28.639 -->
00:12:37.279And now these kids are asking for these songs that I just thought would eventually expire and thriller and beat it and Billy Jean would be the ones that would kind of go ahead.
00:12:37.600 -->
00:12:43.360But human nature is now becoming this like huge new like soundtrack for a generation.
00:12:43.600 -->
00:12:44.879It blows my mind.
00:12:44.960 -->
00:12:46.320Yeah, it blows my mind.
00:12:46.559 -->
00:12:49.840The resurgence of the his music from that movie.
00:12:50.159 -->
00:12:54.480I would have never I never knew that I didn't know what it was gonna take.
00:12:54.720 -->
00:13:02.559Because you know, Frank Sinatra has come back, Dean Martin has come back, and there's that there's generational music that has always kind of come back and has done its thing, okay?
00:13:02.799 -->
00:13:09.759But I was wondering what was it gonna take to get Michael's music, besides Beat It and Billy Jean, like you said, and Thriller, the actual sound, the track.
00:13:10.000 -->
00:13:15.200But like my kids were not interested in Michael Jackson hardly at all, okay?
00:13:15.360 -->
00:13:15.840Yeah, yeah.
00:13:16.080 -->
00:13:17.840Carson, my son, and I go see the movie.
00:13:17.919 -->
00:13:19.600Now, my daughter and my wife have not seen it yet.
00:13:19.679 -->
00:13:21.759We just wanted we wanted to see it again as a family.
00:13:21.840 -->
00:13:23.679We don't want to, they won't, they don't want to see it without us.
00:13:23.840 -->
00:13:26.240So Carson gets back out of that movie.
00:13:26.399 -->
00:13:30.080We played Michael Jackson probably for four or five days in the car.
00:13:30.320 -->
00:13:31.360I didn't matter what it was.
00:13:31.440 -->
00:13:33.519And you know what his favorite song is today?
00:13:33.679 -->
00:13:37.360Not the Chicago 1945, the other Chicago.
00:13:37.759 -->
00:13:38.559Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:13:38.639 -->
00:13:41.120She it's the one that they posthumously released.
00:13:41.519 -->
00:13:43.360Yes, he loves that song.
00:13:44.000 -->
00:13:44.480He loves it.
00:13:44.639 -->
00:13:48.559That's a um that's uh that that officially got released, which is funny.
00:13:48.639 -->
00:13:56.240And that that was actually again an unreleased demo that never made it into any album that Michael was alive doing.
00:13:56.399 -->
00:14:01.600It the estate and Sony made a like a re-done-up version.
00:14:01.919 -->
00:14:16.559And it's funny, it's um there's if you actually go back, I don't want to kind of get you done for copyright for playing any sort of released music, but but if you go back to the escape album, which is where it was officially released, they've released two versions.
00:14:16.639 -->
00:14:25.440They've released the original version that Michael intended, and they released like a one that's like a newly redone up and you know made for today's generation.
00:14:25.600 -->
00:14:27.919And that version is the one that your son likes.
00:14:28.559 -->
00:14:29.039Oh, okay.
00:14:29.120 -->
00:14:29.679That's the one.
00:14:30.080 -->
00:14:30.559He loves it.
00:14:30.799 -->
00:14:31.200He loves it.
00:14:31.279 -->
00:14:33.679And it was funny, I didn't even really know the song that well.
00:14:33.840 -->
00:14:36.320I mean, I knew the song, but it was never like on my radar.
00:14:36.399 -->
00:14:38.320And all of a sudden, he's talking about this song called Chicago.
00:14:38.399 -->
00:14:42.879I'm like, Carson, I don't know if think there is a song that I don't remember a song called Chicago.
00:14:43.120 -->
00:14:46.159Because here's the old guy, like remembering all the old stuff, you know.
00:14:46.399 -->
00:14:50.559And then finally he he says it and he starts playing it, and I'm like, Yep, that's definitely Michael.
00:14:50.639 -->
00:14:51.600That's his that's him.
00:14:51.679 -->
00:14:52.879That's that's it, that's the song.
00:14:52.960 -->
00:14:55.200So it was funny, but it is a good song, really good song.
00:14:55.360 -->
00:15:03.200Oh, it's it's a great song, and there are actually some real good, real good unreleased tunes on that one album.
00:15:03.440 -->
00:15:05.840One that stands out for me in particular.
00:15:06.080 -->
00:15:10.799I can't I can't remember if it's on Escape or if it's in the other posthumous album, but he did a song with Lenny Kravitz.
00:15:10.960 -->
00:15:11.759Yes, I heard that one.
00:15:12.080 -->
00:15:13.039Yeah, another day.
00:15:13.120 -->
00:15:15.919Yeah that is like explosively good.
00:15:16.559 -->
00:15:19.279And there was one more that I really, really enjoyed.
00:15:19.440 -->
00:15:21.200Oh, do you know where your children are?
00:15:21.519 -->
00:15:22.320Oh, definitely.
00:15:22.559 -->
00:15:23.919I know that I heard that one too.
00:15:24.159 -->
00:15:26.320Yeah, like that one is like a real socially conscious.
00:15:26.639 -->
00:15:41.440I feel like if Michael released that song when it was supposed to release in the dangerous album, I think it would have probably, you know, all the all the controversies and accusations, I think that would have kind of really put less weight on it.
00:15:41.519 -->
00:15:41.679Yeah.
00:15:41.919 -->
00:15:52.799Because the the way w what Michael cares about is really expressed in that song in that song, and his his activism for the well-being of children is really shown in in that particular song.
00:15:53.120 -->
00:15:53.360Yeah.
00:15:53.519 -->
00:15:56.559And you definitely love kids, I mean, in in a good way, not in a bad way.
00:15:56.639 -->
00:15:57.120In a good way to do it.
00:15:57.279 -->
00:15:57.600Oh, yeah.
00:15:58.159 -->
00:16:03.679I mean, like, you know, I don't share this a lot, Brad, but like I I met Michael when I was three years old.
00:16:04.080 -->
00:16:05.360Me and my twin.
00:16:05.679 -->
00:16:21.600And, you know, he it's a long, long story, but it involved pretty much my brother, my brother and I, we were three years old at the time, and we were amongst all these fans, and when he came out of the elevator, all of these fans just stampeded over us.
00:16:21.919 -->
00:16:29.200And he got so worried for us that he got the cr he got security to part the crowd, and Michael Jackson ran to my brother and I.
00:16:29.360 -->
00:16:29.919Oh my gosh.
00:16:30.159 -->
00:16:45.759And I think since hearing that story, because my mum was there, it's made me realize, like, you know, he really, no matter what you think, no matter how you perceive the situation, I know that children made him happy and he cared about the safety and well-being of children.
00:16:46.080 -->
00:16:47.200I I genuinely believe that.
00:16:47.519 -->
00:16:48.559I I agree with you 100%.
00:16:48.879 -->
00:16:49.759I I believe 100%.
00:16:50.159 -->
00:16:53.120So do you so one of the things I I where were you?
00:16:53.200 -->
00:16:56.000Do you remember where you were on June 25th, 2009?
00:16:56.960 -->
00:16:59.360Yes, I was at home.
00:16:59.519 -->
00:17:08.960We got a phone call early in the morning from my sister, and she she said there was already an existing rumor that Michael had skin cancer at that time.
00:17:09.200 -->
00:17:09.359Okay.
00:17:09.599 -->
00:17:13.839So when we were told by my sister that Michael, Michael passed, I didn't believe it.
00:17:13.920 -->
00:17:14.880I was like, that's not true.
00:17:14.960 -->
00:17:15.119Yeah.
00:17:15.279 -->
00:17:17.599You know, so I kind of and she's like, no, I'm being serious.
00:17:17.680 -->
00:17:18.960It's it's true.
00:17:19.200 -->
00:17:24.319And at the time we were living in Perth, which is two hours behind Sydney.
00:17:24.400 -->
00:17:24.480Okay.
00:17:24.640 -->
00:17:30.079And all of the morning shows were like the TV morning shows were a delayed telecast.
00:17:30.240 -->
00:17:35.440So we couldn't even find anything on TV that could verify what everyone's talking about.
00:17:35.519 -->
00:17:44.160And Twitter and all the like, you know, TMZ, they all were were sh like at capacity when it comes to internet traffic.
00:17:44.319 -->
00:17:46.480So we were just like left in the dark.
00:17:46.640 -->
00:17:58.319And and then yeah, then when then we we got told uh eventually that it it was true, and me and my twin were like devastated because he was like the person for us.
00:17:58.559 -->
00:18:20.559He was, you know, kind of it's it's so unbelievably parasocial, the relationship we had with him as kids, because he was kind of like like it was very close to like a godlike relationship, where he was just simply he was such a you know luminary for us that there was just no one better we could look up to than him.
00:18:20.799 -->
00:18:28.160And to kind of feel that at 16 years old, when you're still kind of in that parasocial world, yeah, it was really hard for us.
00:18:28.400 -->
00:18:29.039How about yourself?
00:18:29.119 -->
00:18:29.680Will you?
00:18:29.920 -->
00:18:33.119Yeah, it's my wife and I were we weren't even married yet, actually.
00:18:33.200 -->
00:18:35.359We were down in Key West, actually, Key West, Florida.
00:18:35.440 -->
00:18:35.680Yeah.
00:18:35.839 -->
00:18:39.359And I was we were on a scooter, on a little scooter running around the island.
00:18:39.440 -->
00:18:43.680And I we stopped at a at a bar to just have a drink and and maybe go to the bathroom or something like that.
00:18:43.759 -->
00:18:47.759And I was I was outside for some reason to maybe checking out where the scooter was.
00:18:47.839 -->
00:18:52.319There was a storm coming, and I heard some guy on the phone, and he said, Michael Jackson died, and that's all I heard.
00:18:52.480 -->
00:18:55.440And I'm thinking, oh man, that guy has a friend named Michael Jackson.
00:18:55.519 -->
00:18:56.079That's weird.
00:18:56.240 -->
00:18:59.440You know, because it in my mind, there's no way it's the Michael Jackson.
00:18:59.519 -->
00:19:02.400So I just I just went up and completely rude.
00:19:02.480 -->
00:19:03.680And I went, I said, hold on.
00:19:03.759 -->
00:19:06.000I said, buddy, are you talking about the Michael Jackson?
00:19:06.160 -->
00:19:06.960He goes, Yeah, yeah.
00:19:07.039 -->
00:19:08.160And he's like all upset.
00:19:08.319 -->
00:19:11.039I ran into the bar, said, turn TVs on.
00:19:11.200 -->
00:19:12.799I want to see, you know, I want to see what's going on.
00:19:12.880 -->
00:19:15.440And when I saw it, I I sobbed.
00:19:15.680 -->
00:19:16.240Sobbed.
00:19:16.319 -->
00:19:17.119I called my mom.
00:19:17.279 -->
00:19:18.079I called my mother.
00:19:18.160 -->
00:19:18.400Yeah.
00:19:18.559 -->
00:19:20.079And I I just said I couldn't believe it.
00:19:20.160 -->
00:19:22.640And then and then I was upset because they were still drilling him.
00:19:22.720 -->
00:19:24.799There was still all this crap going on about him.
00:19:24.960 -->
00:19:27.839And I remember I remember saying, you know, why don't they just leave him alone?
00:19:27.920 -->
00:19:29.519The song, you know, leave me alone.
00:19:29.839 -->
00:19:33.759You know, it was just interesting because they they just they kept kept bringing up the bad stuff.
00:19:33.839 -->
00:19:35.759And it was like, you know what, guys, the guy just died.
00:19:35.839 -->
00:19:36.480Give me a break.
00:19:36.720 -->
00:19:37.839Yeah, yeah.
00:19:38.079 -->
00:19:39.920Oh, I I I I understand.
00:19:40.000 -->
00:19:47.039And I and I it's so interesting, like the relationship that I had with him as a child.
00:19:47.440 -->
00:19:52.640Because like just when I was 10 years old when the trial happened.
00:19:52.880 -->
00:19:57.680So in the in the era of popular culture, it was unfavored.
00:19:58.000 -->
00:20:03.599Like it was simply kind of almost taboo to be a Michael Jackson fan, especially if you're like a little kid.
00:20:03.920 -->
00:20:11.680Like, and and my brother and I got bullied for it, and you know, our love for him just kind of maintained throughout.
00:20:11.839 -->
00:20:18.240And, you know, so when he passed, people were still making crap about him or like saying all this stuff.
00:20:18.319 -->
00:20:23.920It didn't really feel that horrible to me because I just assumed that that's what they were gonna do.
00:20:24.000 -->
00:20:31.119Yeah, I was like, I was very, very aware of media speculation and media, you know, what's the word?
00:20:31.200 -->
00:20:32.720Like defamatory kind of things.
00:20:32.880 -->
00:20:37.279Like I was so used to that that when he died, I I like everyone else took it really badly.
00:20:37.359 -->
00:20:39.119Like, oh, why are they saying all this stuff about him?
00:20:39.200 -->
00:20:43.599But for me, I'm just kind of like, well, this is just every day for me as a Michael fan in the 2000s.
00:20:43.680 -->
00:20:43.920Yeah.
00:20:44.079 -->
00:20:52.400Which probably makes sense as to why now in 2026 I'm shocked at the positive influence of Michael's having onto the world.
00:20:52.480 -->
00:20:54.640It's like the first time I've ever witnessed this before.
00:20:54.880 -->
00:20:56.079So it's a good idea.
00:20:56.240 -->
00:20:57.279Oh, that's really interesting.
00:20:57.440 -->
00:21:05.680That's really interesting you say that because I remember, I remember before, because of my, you know, because of the difference in age for you and I.
00:21:05.839 -->
00:21:17.759It's you know, I remember the positive and all the good stuff when Off the Wall came out, and when then when you know Thriller came out, and then when all the and then and then all of a sudden it started going not so good, and then it started getting really bad.
00:21:18.000 -->
00:21:19.440And then it was just bad for a while.
00:21:19.519 -->
00:21:25.440You know, it just wasn't it wasn't good for for you brought up his name, and people were like, uh, that guy, or you know, whatever.
00:21:25.680 -->
00:21:27.039And yeah, so that's interesting.
00:21:27.119 -->
00:21:30.559So you now see what we saw before.
00:21:31.359 -->
00:21:34.000That's really that's a that's an interesting outlook on the whole thing.
00:21:34.079 -->
00:21:35.519I'd never thought about that before.
00:21:35.920 -->
00:21:56.799Yeah, it's and I think that's why maybe I have in my career have only just started embracing Michael a lot more because I think subconsciously I believed that if you if you are vocal about Michael, then you are like you are subject to being ridiculed or humiliated for it.
00:21:56.880 -->
00:21:57.200Yeah.
00:21:57.440 -->
00:22:04.720And you know, I I I It actually when I started bringing up Michael Jackson in my career, it was actually before the movie.
00:22:04.799 -->
00:22:07.200It was when the musical came to Australia.
00:22:07.519 -->
00:22:09.440And I was asked to host the premiere for it.
00:22:09.519 -->
00:22:12.480And I was so nervous doing that because I was like You did a great job.
00:22:12.880 -->
00:22:13.920I I saw some of the stuff there.
00:22:14.000 -->
00:22:14.559You did a great job.
00:22:15.039 -->
00:22:15.359Very cool.
00:22:15.680 -->
00:22:16.000Very cool.
00:22:16.400 -->
00:22:25.519But yeah, but like I was so nervous that people are just gonna go, like, you're just a creepy, obsessed Michael Jackson fan, and no one's gonna watch this musical.
00:22:25.680 -->
00:22:26.720No one cares.
00:22:27.039 -->
00:22:29.119Why, you know, why are you doing this?
00:22:29.279 -->
00:22:47.279And then all of a sudden, like all these people came out of the woodwork, like going, Oh my god, I've always been a big Michael fan, and every all these fans are now coming out and feeling like themselves and going, I've loved Michael my whole life, and I've been kind of enjoying his stuff in private, or you know, I'm on scared of people challenging me.
00:22:47.359 -->
00:22:59.519And I'm like, Well, you know, regardless of however you feel about Michael, if you liked his music and his and his and his art is what made you you, then you should be allowed to express that, you should be allowed to celebrate that.
00:22:59.920 -->
00:23:01.200Like it's very important to do that.
00:23:01.519 -->
00:23:02.160Absolutely.
00:23:02.640 -->
00:23:03.759Yeah, I saw the show too.
00:23:03.839 -->
00:23:04.880We saw it on on Broadway.
00:23:04.960 -->
00:23:09.920We saw MJ the musical on Broadway, and I was just well, of course, again, I was in tears a couple times, you know.
00:23:10.000 -->
00:23:14.319It just it's just I was in tears in the movie, the movie had me in tears.
00:23:14.400 -->
00:23:19.680I mean, the older you get, you go into tears a lot earlier, just so you you you cry a lot easier when you get older.
00:23:19.759 -->
00:23:21.839I don't know what the hell it is, but it just happens, you know.
00:23:22.079 -->
00:23:25.119I'm gonna be a weeping mess then as the years come.
00:23:25.440 -->
00:23:26.640Oh, it's it's tough, dude.
00:23:26.720 -->
00:23:27.200It's tough.
00:23:27.279 -->
00:23:29.599But let's go into let's do you have anything else you want to play?
00:23:29.680 -->
00:23:31.680What about that the uh any of the other songs that you played?
00:23:31.839 -->
00:23:33.680Can you play little snippets of anything else?
00:23:33.839 -->
00:23:37.279Well, I I want to play something that you we you you haven't heard.
00:23:37.440 -->
00:23:39.039Oh, oh man, that'll be great.
00:23:39.200 -->
00:23:39.839There's a few.
00:23:39.920 -->
00:23:40.559There's a few.
00:23:40.720 -->
00:23:45.839Okay, did you want something that's a bit uh would you rather a ballad or would you rather something that's up tempo?
00:23:46.240 -->
00:23:47.039It's up to you, man.
00:23:47.119 -->
00:23:49.039Whatever, whatever is the you just play, man.
00:23:49.119 -->
00:23:49.920I'm I'm good with anything.
00:23:50.000 -->
00:23:50.160Okay.
00:23:50.319 -->
00:23:51.200Yeah, I'm good with anything.
00:23:51.519 -->
00:23:54.960I'm gonna play one that was supposed to be on thriller.
00:23:55.440 -->
00:23:58.240Oh wow, it's a really beautiful song.
00:23:58.480 -->
00:24:03.279I think it's thriller, or it's either gonna be in bad, but it's it's a ballad.
00:24:03.680 -->
00:24:05.200And where do you find these things?
00:24:05.279 -->
00:24:06.079Is the question now.
00:24:06.240 -->
00:24:08.240But how do you find this stuff?
00:24:26.720 -->
00:24:27.359Oh, you know what?
00:24:27.519 -->
00:24:41.279I'm just a huge fan, and I'm just really in all those circles when people just kind of I mean look, in in true honesty, there is there are some seminars that these studio engineers kind of play their work.
00:24:41.519 -->
00:24:44.960They did with Michael, and some fans manage to to have that.
00:24:45.119 -->
00:24:48.480So the one that I'm gonna play with play for you, it's a song called Dream Away.
00:24:48.799 -->
00:24:56.880Okay, this one was recorded at a session, so it's not necessarily the most quality, it doesn't sound the best, but I think it's so beautiful.
00:24:57.119 -->
00:24:59.440Let me know you want when you want me to stop playing it.
00:24:59.599 -->
00:24:59.680Yeah.
00:25:01.920 -->
00:25:03.279Let me screw back, yeah.
00:25:03.680 -->
00:25:04.960It's beautiful, man.
00:25:31.519 -->
00:25:35.119I can see the future for this in front of the state.
00:25:41.920 -->
00:25:43.839I can think it's not your mind too much.
00:25:49.119 -->
00:25:55.279That's such a I can see that you are trying, trying to be the face.
00:25:57.279 -->
00:25:58.400It's unbelievable.
00:26:00.160 -->
00:26:14.640All I want to hear is I can't see I can drink.
00:26:18.079 -->
00:26:27.759I can't do all the I can't do anything to dance dreams.
00:26:28.799 -->
00:26:30.960What is real life?
00:26:31.200 -->
00:26:35.680Sharing truth tells a beautiful hand.
00:26:36.079 -->
00:26:38.079So what what's the upbeat one sound like?
00:26:38.160 -->
00:26:39.839Just curious to hear that real quick, too.
00:26:40.160 -->
00:26:40.880Sorry, what was that?
00:26:41.119 -->
00:26:42.240What's the upbeat one that you have?
00:26:42.319 -->
00:26:43.680Just curious to hear that one real quick.
00:26:46.240 -->
00:26:47.119His voice is so pure.
00:26:48.160 -->
00:26:49.039It's so pure.
00:26:49.200 -->
00:26:50.240His voice is so pure.
00:26:50.319 -->
00:26:53.359It's like so like it's angelic, you know?
00:26:53.519 -->
00:26:54.240It's crazy.
00:26:54.400 -->
00:26:58.480Even with the demo like that, like it's it's like it just sounds like perfect.
00:26:59.839 -->
00:27:00.880It's crazy.
00:27:01.839 -->
00:27:05.599It's honestly the most like beautiful thing to hear.
00:27:05.920 -->
00:27:08.160And this was like in the height of his fame, too.
00:27:08.240 -->
00:27:12.720So it's like, how can you how can you give vocals like that?
00:27:12.799 -->
00:27:14.240And you know, anyway.
00:27:14.559 -->
00:27:17.759This one is called Nightline, which I love.
00:27:18.400 -->
00:27:19.119It's very fun.
00:27:19.279 -->
00:27:19.920Here we go.
00:27:20.559 -->
00:27:21.279Give me a second.
00:27:22.720 -->
00:27:25.440I had I had everything ready to go.
00:27:26.079 -->
00:27:27.759It's the way technology is, man.
00:27:27.839 -->
00:27:28.480It's the way it is.
00:27:28.640 -->
00:27:29.839Oh man, that sucks.
00:27:29.920 -->
00:27:31.359I really wanted to play that one.
00:27:31.519 -->
00:27:36.880I can play it from my phone if you want, or if you want let me let me get it on my phone.
00:27:37.279 -->
00:27:39.359Yeah, so if we can hear it through your phone, that'd be great.
00:27:39.759 -->
00:27:40.319Yeah.
00:27:40.640 -->
00:27:42.480I'm god, I'm a radio person.
00:27:42.559 -->
00:27:44.079I hate the sound of silence.
00:27:44.480 -->
00:27:47.759So it's like it's the way that's we'll be all right.
00:27:47.839 -->
00:27:48.240We'll be all right.
00:27:48.400 -->
00:27:51.200So let's let's talk about what's what's that?
00:27:51.440 -->
00:27:51.759What's that?
00:27:52.319 -->
00:27:53.200Let's fill the gaps, fill the gaps.
00:27:53.279 -->
00:27:54.240Fill the gaps, fill the gaps, yeah.
00:27:55.039 -->
00:28:00.240So no, so what's really interesting too is the that the unreleased demos that they're out there.
00:28:00.319 -->
00:28:07.279I'm wondering if at some point, do you think the family or the estate or will somebody come out and start releasing more of this stuff?
00:28:07.359 -->
00:28:22.720There's gotta be tons of completed tracks that that could be produced, and though obviously it would be against his wishes, because I'm pretty sure if he had a will or something, he probably had in there don't put anything out unless it's I unless I wanted it to be out.
00:28:22.799 -->
00:28:24.559Uh you know, it's just interesting.
00:28:24.799 -->
00:28:26.160There has to be stuff out there.
00:28:26.799 -->
00:28:30.799Oh, yeah, this there is so much unreleased material, it's it's insane.
00:28:30.880 -->
00:28:36.079Like there there are so many unreleased things I could play for you that don't even have Michael's vocals on them.
00:28:36.400 -->
00:28:43.839So if there's that, then someone must have a version that Michael has recorded, and there's hundreds.
00:28:44.000 -->
00:28:45.920There's so much unreleased material.
00:28:46.480 -->
00:28:56.799I don't know if the estate would release them purely because the estate is such a business savvy organization.
00:28:57.200 -->
00:29:05.440And their whole their whole thing is if it's not gonna if it's not gonna be embraced by the whole world, then we're not gonna put it out.
00:29:05.599 -->
00:29:07.039That's kind of that that's the essence.
00:29:07.440 -->
00:29:10.240Like they do these anniversary releases.
00:29:10.319 -->
00:29:18.720They did one for bad for the 25th anniversary, they did one for the thriller album in 2022, and it just doesn't sell.
00:29:18.960 -->
00:29:19.839Wow that's the problem.
00:29:20.000 -->
00:29:27.599Like, like all the big Michael fans, and you know, you know, of course we'll we'll buy them, but it's not the Michael biopic worthy kind of stuff.
00:29:27.680 -->
00:29:32.880It's not the Cirque du Soleil kind of productions, and I think that's where the estate's interest is in.
00:29:33.039 -->
00:29:39.279I think their interest is in how can we make Michael's legacy the biggest thing and put in all of this.
00:29:39.839 -->
00:29:42.160Yeah, and releasing a single's not gonna do that.
00:29:42.319 -->
00:29:46.799Releasing a single that is just like put out there and hoping that it does well and all that.
00:29:46.960 -->
00:29:56.400Although, if there was ever a time that they would have done it, it would have been now, like with the or with the new movie, with the new movie coming out, the second, the second that wouldn't be the time.
00:29:56.480 -->
00:29:59.759If there's a chance of it getting huge, yeah, that would be the time.
00:30:00.079 -->
00:30:07.119The the estate is so intentional that I feel like if they release any new music now, it would kind of overshadow the biopic.
00:30:07.359 -->
00:30:08.880And here's what I think, right?
00:30:09.039 -->
00:30:20.079I think if you look at the Michael biopic, if you look at the way it's been marketed, you look at you know, every single shot in the film, there is you'd never see the real Michael.
00:30:20.720 -->
00:30:22.799Like it's never, it's never ever shown.
00:30:23.039 -->
00:30:29.359And I think that's intentionally done to focus on Michael as this immortal legacy.
00:30:29.599 -->
00:30:38.640Like it's the it's the character of Michael Jackson that we, you know, that the I feel the estate is is broadcasting out here right now.
00:30:38.720 -->
00:30:46.480Yeah I think the moment they then start putting things that actually has Michael in it, yeah, it takes away from that essence.
00:30:47.359 -->
00:30:54.799That kind of intangible, invisible presence, which is what's making the like culture go nuts over Michael right now.
00:30:55.279 -->
00:30:56.160So interesting.
00:30:56.319 -->
00:30:57.839I don't know, that that's that's just the way I see it.
00:30:58.000 -->
00:31:05.200No, it's and I well, you have a you you obviously have a feel on the whole thing more so than I do, just because of what you read and what you the people you talk to and things like that.
00:31:05.599 -->
00:31:07.759I'm I'm the I'm the old guy Michael Jackson fan.
00:31:07.839 -->
00:31:09.599I'm a little different than than you are.
00:31:09.839 -->
00:31:11.920So uh, but it's incredible though.
00:31:12.000 -->
00:31:20.079It really is, and and I'm I'm so glad the new movie, there's another movie coming out because I was completely like when it when the first one ended, I was like, no, no, no, this can't be over.
00:31:20.160 -->
00:31:20.880No, this is not over.
00:31:21.200 -->
00:31:23.920No, no, yeah, because you just you're left hanging.
00:31:24.240 -->
00:31:24.880Oh yeah.
00:31:25.039 -->
00:31:33.440And you know, like I was actually talking to my friend about this the other day because you've I'm I'm not sure how much of what the movie was supposed to be that you've heard about.
00:31:33.519 -->
00:31:43.440Yeah, but there was obviously the the the allegations that were supposed to be covered in the in the first movie, but then due to clauses and overlooking certain things, yeah, they couldn't put it in.
00:31:43.599 -->
00:31:45.680They didn't do it and they had to reshoot a lot.
00:31:45.920 -->
00:32:03.839But I'm actually quite as a Michael fan who has witnessed his demise in my early years, I'm actually kind of happy that we have the first part just about Michael becoming Michael rather than the his relationship with the media.
00:32:04.079 -->
00:32:09.920Because I think Do you think they're gonna really do you think they're they're not gonna concentrate on that in the second movie, though?
00:32:10.079 -->
00:32:11.519Do you think they're probably gonna?
00:32:11.599 -->
00:32:12.880I mean, obviously it's gotta come up.
00:32:12.960 -->
00:32:18.160I mean, it's gonna be in the movie because that's a big part of that part of his life.
00:32:19.200 -->
00:32:28.400I mean, I definitely think that the scandals are probably gonna play a huge part in the movie, but I still think the Joseph storyline, yeah.
00:32:28.559 -->
00:32:44.079I mean, if I was to make a part two, I would still make Joseph the central character of this film because eventually Michael goes through all of these troubles where it comes to allegations, when it comes to you know plastic surgery, media.
00:32:44.559 -->
00:32:47.839At the end, he actually comes back to his dad.
00:32:48.400 -->
00:32:58.480There's a really beautiful speech that Michael did for Oxford, the um Oxford University in 2002 to promote his Heal the Kids charity that he was doing.
00:32:58.640 -->
00:33:02.799And he does a very beautiful emotional speech about his dad.
00:33:03.039 -->
00:33:05.920Wow, how at Algon his dad.
00:33:06.160 -->
00:33:19.759And he also talks about you know the the idea of wanting to be loved, carried, held by his dad, and then how the only time he felt love from his dad was his dad knew that he liked donuts.
00:33:20.240 -->
00:33:24.559And one day there was a bag of donuts that was left on the table.
00:33:24.799 -->
00:33:46.400So Joseph didn't give it to him but left it on the table, and that was the most love that Michael felt as a child, and it made him realize later on that his dad does love him, and and that he's very thankful for his dad for making him strong, and it's a really, really big he he cries, he he he heats the wild so emotional.
00:33:46.640 -->
00:33:53.519And I think if I was to make part two, I would make that the resolution of the film, you know.
00:33:54.319 -->
00:34:00.480You know, everyone always focuses about the allegations, all this stuff, but I'm like, no, there is an unresolved relationship with his father that's still left.
00:34:00.720 -->
00:34:02.000That's a great idea in part one.
00:34:02.160 -->
00:34:02.400Yeah.
00:34:02.559 -->
00:34:04.000I hope that's what happens in part two.
00:34:04.319 -->
00:34:05.119But you should talk to them.
00:34:05.200 -->
00:34:08.880I mean, you should get in touch with them and tell them you have an idea for that movie.
00:34:09.039 -->
00:34:10.319I'm excited for it to come out.
00:34:10.400 -->
00:34:10.880I really am.
00:34:11.119 -->
00:34:16.480So before we wrap this up, let's let's go into let's go into I just want to go into your career.
00:34:16.640 -->
00:34:18.960I mean, we talked about Michael and we talked about all these things.
00:34:19.039 -->
00:34:20.319Let's talk a little bit about your career.
00:34:20.400 -->
00:34:24.239I mean, you you've got radio going on, you got podcasting, you're interviewing people left and right.
00:34:24.480 -->
00:34:26.400I mean, you you have a lot going on.
00:34:26.639 -->
00:34:31.440You know, tell me about where you're gone, where you want to go, what's your what are your goals or what what do you want to do here?
00:34:31.760 -->
00:34:32.480Yeah, thank you.
00:34:32.639 -->
00:34:33.840Thank you for asking as well.
00:34:34.000 -->
00:34:39.519You know, it's the essence that I find from Michael, I find with a lot of things in my life, right?
00:34:39.679 -->
00:34:49.039Whether it comes to technology, when it comes to entertainment, all these different types of people who who like like like what you do with your podcast, you know, interviewing leaders and everything like that.
00:34:49.280 -->
00:34:54.960I just want to illuminate the the real personal meaning behind things that give us joy.
00:34:55.280 -->
00:35:02.800So with my podcast, with my radio show, I'm I'm really focusing on trying to uh explore all those different avenues.
00:35:02.960 -->
00:35:05.119And I think right now, Michael is the thing.
00:35:05.280 -->
00:35:09.280Right now, I'm a Michael fan and everyone's feeling a lot of personal connection.
00:35:09.519 -->
00:35:15.920But I want to kind of bring more joy and humanity in the things that we love to to more audiences.
00:35:16.159 -->
00:35:22.719So in my in my podcast, I spoke with uh Zane Lowe, who's one of the biggest broadcasters in the world.
00:35:22.880 -->
00:35:30.239I've spoken with Tyra Banks, who went from modeling to now ice cream, which was such a weird pivot, but just kind of pivot, yeah.
00:35:30.719 -->
00:35:46.079It's such a different pivot, but like we had the most beautiful conversation about her childhood and what ice cream meant to her, and how it kind of carried her through this modeling career, and just these beautiful conversations and topics is the things that I want to bring out more.
00:35:46.559 -->
00:35:57.360And I think now more than ever, we're all getting in touch with ourselves and our inner child, and I want to I want to bring that energy to more people through my work, through my radio, through my podcast, and through my content.
00:35:57.679 -->
00:35:58.559I love that.
00:35:58.719 -->
00:36:00.719And also, yeah, what do you what do you how do you feel?
00:36:00.800 -->
00:36:02.159Like this is a radio show.
00:36:02.239 -->
00:36:04.480Obviously, you have a radio show, so and a podcast.
00:36:04.719 -->
00:36:07.199So how how where let's just talk about that a little bit?
00:36:07.280 -->
00:36:08.320Like, where do you think that's going?
00:36:08.480 -->
00:36:14.000I mean, uh to me, podcasts and radios are radios kind of just kind of blending together, coming together a little bit.
00:36:14.239 -->
00:36:17.039I mean, where do you feel the future of both are?
00:36:17.920 -->
00:36:25.119Well, I think that now more than ever, we are following personal brands more than we are following radio brands.
00:36:25.519 -->
00:36:32.559So I think I think we're gonna be merging the radio, podcast, and content environment really into one.
00:36:32.960 -->
00:36:34.400I think it will it will blur.
00:36:34.480 -->
00:36:36.559And I think that's how it sh it should be.
00:36:36.960 -->
00:36:46.000I think that, you know, if we like if we like what someone makes, or we like what their values are, or if I can relate to them as a friend, then that's all I need.
00:36:46.320 -->
00:36:57.199And you know, these platforms will give us the ability to reach as many people as we can, or it will give us the ability to to create great content from it.
00:36:57.679 -->
00:37:03.679So, you know, it's different in America because like uh correct me if I'm wrong, but radio is mainly subscription over there, is that right?
00:37:04.000 -->
00:37:05.679Well, it's most of Serious XM.
00:37:05.840 -->
00:37:15.119I mean, we still have regular radio stations, but even the regular radio stations, like in our cities and our the small cities, bigger, even bigger cities, it's all it's all pre-recorded.
00:37:15.199 -->
00:37:18.400So there's no there's no live people hardly anymore at all.
00:37:18.639 -->
00:37:21.280So it's it's all it's all pre-recorded, you know.
00:37:21.599 -->
00:37:28.800I mean, I don't know that all for a fact, but I know locally the radio station, and I know some of the bigger ones, you know, basically from like 9 a.m.
00:37:29.039 -->
00:37:31.440to noon, there's really nobody in there.
00:37:31.599 -->
00:37:36.480There might be somebody that's in there in between saying the weather, because they have to be accurate with that or the traffic.
00:37:36.639 -->
00:37:47.199There's a traffic guy, but there's the the rest of it is just a person that recorded their self saying, and here's the next song coming up by Michael Jackson, and then they play the Michael Jackson, and then it plays other songs.
00:37:47.280 -->
00:37:52.159So I don't know if that's how it is with you guys or if you actually are still there, you know, live.
00:37:52.400 -->
00:37:55.840I don't how I don't know how that works with with with most radio today.
00:37:56.239 -->
00:37:59.199Yeah, a lot of Australian radio is still very traditional.
00:37:59.519 -->
00:38:04.719We have a live breakfast show, we have someone in the studio afterwards playing music, doing competitions.
00:38:04.880 -->
00:38:08.239There's an afternoon drive-home show, there's a night show.
00:38:08.400 -->
00:38:10.480It's you know, it's and most of it's live.
00:38:10.719 -->
00:38:11.199No, that's cool.
00:38:11.280 -->
00:38:18.239Um, Australia kind of still embraces a very live, you know, free-to-air kind of broadcast environment.
00:38:18.639 -->
00:38:22.079On the weekend, we had um our version of the Emmys, which is called the Logies.
00:38:22.320 -->
00:38:22.800Oh, that's cool.
00:38:22.960 -->
00:38:26.960And uh, it was full of Australian TV and radio personalities all together.
00:38:27.119 -->
00:38:32.719So I think it's still very prominent here in Australia and it's actually funny.
00:38:33.119 -->
00:38:39.039I know, sorry, I know you've got to go, but there is uh there is a big radio talent in Australia called Kyle Sanderlands.
00:38:39.199 -->
00:38:41.440I'm not sure if you heard of the show Kyle and Jackie O.
00:38:41.599 -->
00:38:41.679No.
00:38:42.000 -->
00:38:45.599Like one of the biggest, biggest Australian Breckie shows ever.
00:38:45.760 -->
00:38:54.000They'll be they've been number one in Sydney for 20 years, and there was a little bit of a fight that happened, and their contract got completely torn.
00:38:54.719 -->
00:38:57.199And now Kyle is doing his own.
00:38:57.840 -->
00:38:59.039Oh, after 20 years.
00:38:59.760 -->
00:39:03.679Yeah, after 20 years, but he's doing it through an app, a subscription app.
00:39:04.000 -->
00:39:08.159So I think we're slowly moving into that direction of things being in apps.
00:39:08.559 -->
00:39:18.559But as for right now, like radio broadcast and traditional live broadcasting is still a very preferred method of entertainment for Australians.
00:39:18.800 -->
00:39:27.119But I but I have to say, real quick, what what you were completely correct about years ago, we had a station here, and it's still there, it's called Y102, it's a radio station.
00:39:27.440 -->
00:39:33.679I would go to the radio station and then I would find the personalities that were there on the radio station.
00:39:34.239 -->
00:39:39.679I found you, the personality, and then I was like, oh, he's on a radio show.
00:39:39.760 -->
00:39:40.800I didn't know he was with you.
00:39:40.880 -->
00:39:43.199I knew he was with a radio company or something like that.
00:39:43.360 -->
00:39:50.800So you were completely correct in that it's it's the show, it's the individual, it's it's it's what you're doing that people are interested in.
00:39:50.880 -->
00:39:55.760They're not, they don't care who's behind you or what you're with, they just know that they like your content.
00:39:56.079 -->
00:39:57.440Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:39:57.599 -->
00:40:06.079You know, like there's so many talent on our network that have so many fans, and and it's you know, that's why they listen to us, right?
00:40:06.159 -->
00:40:09.280That's why they, you know, without them, it's just hardware.
00:40:09.519 -->
00:40:18.559So um we have we have uh our workday talent on this show hosts Big Brother on on a channel on on one of our Australian channels.
00:40:18.719 -->
00:40:20.159They listen because they love Mel.
00:40:20.239 -->
00:40:20.719You know what I mean?
00:40:20.800 -->
00:40:22.400And Mel presents the best music.
00:40:22.559 -->
00:40:23.199Oh, that's cool.
00:40:23.360 -->
00:40:28.559It's so yeah, per per personal branding is so important in the entertainment and media field.
00:40:28.639 -->
00:40:31.119Actually, I think in any field, personal branding is not going to be.
00:40:31.360 -->
00:40:33.519I'm a realtor for 34 years before, you know.
00:40:33.679 -->
00:40:36.159Uh so it's that's all we do is brand.
00:40:36.239 -->
00:40:38.079I mean, that's it's branding is everything.
00:40:38.320 -->
00:40:39.199But yeah, it's so cool.
00:40:39.280 -->
00:40:40.159So why don't we do this?
00:40:40.320 -->
00:40:49.360Why don't we why don't we get it to let's go through the end of the show here with why don't you play a couple more things, or if you have anything that you can load up, or if there's something that you load up before we can play?
00:40:49.440 -->
00:40:52.559And that's what if you're okay with that, we can kind of end the show with that.
00:40:52.719 -->
00:40:53.199How's that?
00:40:53.360 -->
00:40:54.159Yeah, sure.
00:40:54.480 -->
00:40:58.159I can't play it through the desk for some real weird reason.
00:40:58.320 -->
00:40:59.440I don't know what's happened.
00:40:59.519 -->
00:41:01.280So I can play it on my phone.
00:41:01.519 -->
00:41:06.880It's gonna sound really it's gonna sound the best, yeah, but it's a demo that I love so much.
00:41:07.199 -->
00:41:08.000It's called Nightline.
00:41:08.320 -->
00:41:08.880I want to hear it.
00:41:08.960 -->
00:41:10.400Let me see if I can get it.
00:41:20.400 -->
00:41:21.280It's really fun.
00:41:21.440 -->
00:41:22.320It's really fun.
00:41:27.840 -->
00:41:28.639It's cute.
00:41:29.760 -->
00:41:31.599A lot of kids in there, or what?
00:41:33.039 -->
00:41:36.159I think it's just really youthful sounding backing vocals.
00:41:36.320 -->
00:41:36.960Yeah.
00:41:39.920 -->
00:41:42.079It's really funky.
00:41:42.559 -->
00:41:44.000It's so funky.
00:41:44.880 -->
00:41:46.159I love it.
00:41:46.800 -->
00:41:49.280Um and this was never released.
00:41:50.320 -->
00:41:53.599This wasn't I I I don't think it's released.
00:41:54.000 -->
00:41:56.320So let me find one more.
00:41:56.559 -->
00:41:56.719Yeah.
00:41:56.960 -->
00:42:04.239I mean guaranteed is unreleased, just in case if we come across any dramas, because I don't want to have a problem.
00:42:04.320 -->
00:42:05.760I don't want to have a problem.
00:42:05.920 -->
00:42:06.480Yeah, exactly.
00:42:06.639 -->
00:42:10.400Has anybody ever said anything to you while you're while you're with with doing what you do there?
00:42:10.480 -->
00:42:11.920Like, like, hey, you can't be doing this.
00:42:12.000 -->
00:42:15.119You're on a radio show and you're not this is not uh released or whatever.
00:42:15.199 -->
00:42:16.159Has anybody ever said anything to you?
00:42:16.400 -->
00:42:28.079No, not really, because it's because it it's if if it's unreleased, it's actually the fans that have a bit of a problem with it, to be honest with you, and rightfully so, because they're like, Michael didn't want this out.
00:42:28.159 -->
00:42:29.119Why are you putting this out?
00:42:29.199 -->
00:42:32.079You know, but I'm like, you know, who's gonna put it out?
00:42:32.239 -->
00:42:38.159No one like I don't think we're gonna have this as an official release, and I think as fans, we love being treated to things.
00:42:38.320 -->
00:42:39.519Okay, I'll play for you.
00:42:39.599 -->
00:42:42.559I'll close this chat with a really good demo.
00:42:42.800 -->
00:42:45.199I think this is like on par with black or white.
00:42:45.440 -->
00:42:45.920Oh, wow.
00:42:46.159 -->
00:42:47.119Which is one of my favorites.
00:42:47.360 -->
00:42:48.480Love the video too on that.
00:42:48.559 -->
00:42:49.440It's a great video.
00:42:49.840 -->
00:42:52.159Yeah, man, it's it's it's amazing.
00:42:52.320 -->
00:42:56.079This is called If You Don't Love Me from The Dangerous Sessions.
00:42:56.480 -->
00:42:57.280Interesting.
00:43:02.719 -->
00:43:03.760Sounds like black or white.
00:43:04.639 -->
00:43:05.679Very black or white, right?
00:43:05.840 -->
00:43:06.079Yep.
00:43:58.960 -->
00:44:01.280Anyway, so that's if you did.
00:44:01.840 -->
00:44:02.480That's awesome.
00:44:02.639 -->
00:44:04.079That was so good, man.
00:44:04.239 -->
00:44:05.119That's a good song.
00:44:05.199 -->
00:44:06.960That could be a hit right there, man.
00:44:07.119 -->
00:44:07.920That's fun.
00:44:08.239 -->
00:44:09.360I can say that on a Pepsi ad.
00:44:09.679 -->
00:44:10.480Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:44:10.719 -->
00:44:12.320Definitely, definitely, yes, definitely.
00:44:12.480 -->
00:44:13.360So, you know what, man?
00:44:13.440 -->
00:44:14.639Thanks so much for coming on.
00:44:14.719 -->
00:44:15.519I I appreciate it.
00:44:15.599 -->
00:44:16.960And and thanks for being here.
00:44:17.119 -->
00:44:21.760You you you you definitely you know touched me when I heard some of the stuff on your show.
00:44:22.000 -->
00:44:24.639It was meant a lot to me because it was stuff I never heard.
00:44:24.800 -->
00:44:26.719I literally, I think, cried the first time.
00:44:26.800 -->
00:44:32.639There was another song you played, I forgot what it was called, but it was another song that you had played that was very to me, really kind of emotional.
00:44:32.719 -->
00:44:34.559It was very angelic, too, that you had on there.
00:44:34.639 -->
00:44:35.440I don't remember what it was called.
00:44:35.599 -->
00:44:35.920Yeah.
00:44:36.159 -->
00:44:36.960But if you played it.
00:44:38.000 -->
00:44:38.800What's it called?
00:44:39.039 -->
00:44:40.880I think it's called I Am a Loser.
00:44:41.119 -->
00:44:44.320I'm not sure what it was, but I'll tell you what, it was one of those that just hit me.
00:44:44.400 -->
00:44:46.559And you were even in tears when you were listening to it.
00:44:46.639 -->
00:44:48.800You were like kind of like you put your head down and whatever.
00:44:48.880 -->
00:44:49.760It was like this whole thing.
00:44:49.920 -->
00:44:50.079Yeah.
00:44:50.239 -->
00:44:52.320And I remember sitting there going, I gotta talk to this guy.
00:44:52.400 -->
00:44:56.800I got I guess somehow I gotta talk to this guy because we have something in common here and we need to we need to talk.
00:44:56.960 -->
00:44:58.000So thanks so much.
00:44:58.400 -->
00:45:00.079How can people, how do they see you?
00:45:00.159 -->
00:45:01.199How do they reach out to you?
00:45:01.280 -->
00:45:04.400How do they get to see the all the great stuff you're doing with Michael?
00:45:04.719 -->
00:45:05.360Oh, thank you.
00:45:05.440 -->
00:45:07.760Well, yeah, they can reach out to me on Instagram or TikTok.
00:45:07.840 -->
00:45:09.280My name is Jermaine DeVarz.
00:45:09.599 -->
00:45:12.800If you just search for Jermaine D, you'll probably find me on there.
00:45:12.960 -->
00:45:21.199And also my radio show and podcast on air with Jermaine is available wherever you want to get your podcast, and also on Instagram and TikTok as well.
00:45:21.440 -->
00:45:22.079Awesome, man.
00:45:22.159 -->
00:45:23.199Thanks so much for being here.
00:45:23.519 -->
00:45:24.159I appreciate it.
00:45:24.320 -->
00:45:24.559Of course.
00:45:24.800 -->
00:45:26.400All right, we'll talk to you soon, okay?
00:45:26.639 -->
00:45:27.280Thanks, Brad.
00:45:27.360 -->
00:45:27.760Have a good day.
00:45:27.920 -->
00:45:28.639Thanks for tuning out.
00:45:28.880 -->
00:45:29.360Thanks, buddy.
00:45:29.519 -->
00:45:30.079All right.
00:45:30.719 -->
00:45:31.199All right.
00:45:31.360 -->
00:45:32.800Oh my gosh, that was so fun.
00:45:32.880 -->
00:45:34.639I mean, come on, that had to be the best show.
00:45:34.719 -->
00:45:37.360Right there, you know, with all the music, Jermaine DeVoz.
00:45:37.599 -->
00:45:40.480Uh, you gotta watch him, you gotta be on his Instagram.
00:45:40.639 -->
00:45:43.280Check out all that he's doing on air with Jermaine.
00:45:43.360 -->
00:45:44.320You will not be sorry.
00:45:44.400 -->
00:45:45.840You're gonna hear all kinds of different music.
00:45:46.000 -->
00:45:48.639He also has a lot of new artists that he actually showcases to.
00:45:48.880 -->
00:45:50.320So get out there, check him out.
00:45:50.400 -->
00:45:51.599Um, thanks for being here tonight.
00:45:51.679 -->
00:45:54.719Thanks for taking this ride with me with the Michael Jackson stuff.
00:45:54.800 -->
00:45:57.360I know it's a little different than what we normally do, but I appreciate it.
00:45:57.440 -->
00:45:59.199All right, see you next Thursday at 7 p.m.
00:45:59.519 -->
00:46:00.880All right, thank you.
