[0:01] Welcome to Lawyer Like an Athlete Podcast.
[0:07] Welcome to Lawyer Like an Athlete Podcast.
[0:10] I'm Dr. Amy Wood.
[0:11] I'm a licensed psychologist, executive coach,
[0:14] and author of Lawyer Like an Athlete
[0:16] and ABA published book that focuses
[0:18] on sustainable high performance and the legal profession.
[0:21] And today I'm joined by my colleague Ivy Slater.
[0:24] She's CEO of Slater Success.
[0:27] She's an executive coach, speaker, best-selling author,
[0:30] and also host of the Her Success Story podcast.
[0:35] Ivy has spent decades helping leaders
[0:37] and organizations grow through strategic leadership,
[0:41] authentic relationships, and intentional decision-making.
[0:44] And I want to emphasize authentic relationships
[0:47] as a part of success today,
[0:48] because that's what we're going to explore.
[0:51] How relationships that attorneys build can influence
[0:54] not only their careers, but also their performance,
[0:57] the resilience, and long-term success.
[1:00] So welcome, Ivy.
[1:02] Thank you, Amy.
[1:03] It's wonderful to be here with you.
[1:05] Great to have you.
[1:07] So I want to start by asking, I know your work emphasizes
[1:10] the power of authentic relationships,
[1:12] and therefore we're going to focus on that today.
[1:14] What convinced you that relationships
[1:17] are such an important part of long-term success?
[1:21] You know, it's the simple fact
[1:24] that I've owned a business for over 30 years.
[1:27] And I know there are people that continue
[1:31] to either be clients, send me clients
[1:34] from my previous business,
[1:37] from relationships I've had for 30 years,
[1:40] from relationships I've built, from people saying,
[1:42] oh, and I literally, right before I got on this podcast,
[1:46] somebody reached out to me
[1:47] that I haven't spoken to in several years to say,
[1:50] Ivy, you wouldn't believe who are new in from CEO
[1:53] as she knows you, blah, blah, blah, blah,
[1:55] we should get on the phone and catch up.
[1:58] And it's serendipitous that email came through
[2:03] right before we're talking about this.
[2:05] That's right.
[2:06] I truly tracked relationships kept in touch with people.
[2:11] I've been fired by clients in my old business
[2:15] when I went to printing company all those years ago.
[2:18] And they went on to hire me in Slater Success.
[2:23] I've done work with some of the top companies
[2:25] by the relationships that I've had.
[2:27] I've received clients from people.
[2:29] I've known that I've worked with this person
[2:33] that I referred to as a vendor.
[2:36] You know, I was there vendor back in the day
[2:38] and I'm probably going back to,
[2:40] I hate to say the late 90s early 2000s
[2:45] and we have picked up as far as a manufacturing problem
[2:50] and I was released from the vendor list.
[2:52] That's essentially being fired as a vendor.
[2:55] I still have coffee with her several times.
[2:57] Your drinks are a lunch or whatever.
[2:59] We still receive business from her,
[3:02] do business with her and get referrals from her.
[3:06] And when I drafted Amy,
[3:08] I tracked seven figures back to this one person.
[3:12] That says it all to be incredible.
[3:15] Or at the value of relationships.
[3:17] Yeah, and I really like what you said
[3:18] about meeting for coffee and having lunch.
[3:21] I feel the same way.
[3:22] I meet people in person.
[3:24] And I think that's probably whenever I can.
[3:26] I have a lot of Zoom meetings too.
[3:27] But I think that in person part is so integral
[3:31] to having relationships over time
[3:33] that lead to a lot of opportunities.
[3:36] And sometimes when we meet people,
[3:38] we don't always talk about quote unquote business, right?
[3:42] We really talk about our lives, what's going on.
[3:46] Where we're traveling.
[3:47] I mean, this particular person last time we met up for coffee,
[3:51] it was like, you know, the Pilates
[3:53] versus some gardening things, then business,
[3:56] then circle back to some visionary work
[3:59] and then, you know, some connections
[4:01] and then it went back to honestly, went back to Pilates.
[4:04] Yes.
[4:05] Well, I think what people don't understand
[4:07] about building relationships that lead to opportunities
[4:10] is first of all, it's not always about, you know,
[4:12] just giving someone your business card,
[4:14] expecting they're going to call you.
[4:15] That really works.
[4:16] It's more about getting to know someone first as a person.
[4:19] And I remember reading the autobiography
[4:22] of the guy who started Zappos,
[4:24] the really successful shoe company.
[4:26] And what he said is that the average networking meeting
[4:30] takes about seven years to pay off.
[4:32] And you never know how it's going to pay off.
[4:34] And he gave this example of having a meeting with someone
[4:38] didn't think it would go anywhere.
[4:39] And then seven years later,
[4:41] this person knew a realtor who they referred to him
[4:44] and it helped him to buy his new house.
[4:47] So I think it's about being open to how an opportunity
[4:51] might show up.
[4:52] So why is it that attorneys?
[4:55] And I hope that I jumped in for a sec.
[4:58] Because you brought up the CEO of Zappos
[5:01] probably about 15 years ago.
[5:03] I had the opportunity to tour their factory.
[5:06] They're all out in Las Vegas.
[5:09] And maybe it was in Henderson, Las Vegas,
[5:12] some town outside, don't quote me.
[5:15] And we got to on this tour, they're like,
[5:18] you may like when we go into the department,
[5:20] like they know we're coming through
[5:21] and you actually may just sit down and talk to anyone.
[5:24] So hello, I did.
[5:27] And I remember this conversation
[5:29] because it was, it talked about relationship building.
[5:32] And they, they were chatting with them.
[5:35] It was myself and two other people
[5:36] and we're asking them some questions.
[5:39] And it's like, well, every person
[5:40] sits on a customer service desk.
[5:42] I'm out of what role you're in.
[5:44] Customer service, like speaking to your clients,
[5:47] your customers is key.
[5:50] And I'm like, well, what's the craziest thing
[5:52] that makes this company different
[5:55] in customer service to your perspective?
[5:58] And they said, we get a discretionary fund
[6:01] that if we speak to somebody
[6:03] and we want to do something, we can do it.
[6:06] And I'm like, what are you talking about?
[6:08] What does that need?
[6:10] And this gentleman shared an example.
[6:13] He goes, this woman called in a very distressed tone
[6:18] and they're like, I need a pair of black shoes.
[6:21] There's a funeral, my clothes, whoever,
[6:23] like parent or a spout, like died.
[6:25] And I need this now.
[6:27] And they're like, slow down.
[6:30] I will get you everything you need.
[6:31] And he goes, I just started filling
[6:33] and I get sent several options
[6:35] and I asked the woman in the address
[6:37] and then I said, where is the future?
[6:40] Where is the service to the funeral?
[6:42] And he goes, and I use that discretionary ability
[6:46] to send flowers on behalf of my name and the company.
[6:52] Now, let's talk about customer loyalty and retention.
[6:56] And in every business book you could talk about
[6:59] doing business with people you know like and trust.
[7:02] And that's the power of building those relationships.
[7:05] We're on that relationship meter of no like and trust.
[7:08] Does this person now see that organization?
[7:13] So if you're a lawyer, when you're a law firm,
[7:16] when you're building that,
[7:18] when you have any situation,
[7:20] you watch your first call and then that relationship,
[7:25] not the attorney, the relationship.
[7:28] So we understand this.
[7:29] And I think most really successful people
[7:32] understand the importance of relationships.
[7:34] But why is it that attorneys, a lot of them I work with
[7:37] and I'm sure you have this experience here,
[7:39] they don't understand the need to take time
[7:42] to have relationships with others
[7:44] and to make these kinds of connections
[7:45] and to really show empathy and show a human side
[7:50] instead of just transactional.
[7:51] What is that all about?
[7:53] Attorneys get caught up in and they're not wrong
[7:57] in the billable hour.
[7:59] Yeah, like I have to bill, I have to bill, I have to bill.
[8:02] And I'm thinking as you asked this question,
[8:04] two different clients came to mind.
[8:06] Okay, and one is I had a conversation
[8:10] about building more relationships and getting out there
[8:13] and you know, and like I used to do that,
[8:15] I just need to sit at my desk and build my own.
[8:18] And I was like, well, isn't it interesting
[8:21] if you took like the two hour period
[8:24] and you developed X amount of relationships
[8:27] in that time of the people you're already now
[8:29] when you hosted a lunch of maybe four people, you know,
[8:34] three, four, five people and you hosted it
[8:37] and then what business would that drive to not just you
[8:41] but your entire organization
[8:43] that has that ripple effect and growth.
[8:47] And there's another client
[8:49] that when we started working together,
[8:51] you know, I was asking about like what is she do
[8:54] for networking and to do just like, well,
[8:55] I like to speak and it's like, how do you follow up
[8:58] and what are you and I can just, well,
[9:00] I used to work blah, blah, blah, blah.
[9:03] And before I started my own firm,
[9:05] and now if I think about it, I probably have
[9:08] and she's thinking and thinking and thinking
[9:10] and looking at the sky, maybe 102 to 50 individual people
[9:16] that I was like, okay, slow down.
[9:18] So you're sitting on a goldmine.
[9:20] You're sitting on a goldmine.
[9:23] And when we think about that long-term legacy
[9:25] for the firm, if we cultivate these several hundred
[9:30] relationships, what's that long-term legacy
[9:34] from when she builds as she scales,
[9:38] even as she takes vacation and she has other staff,
[9:41] what's it's not about just sitting at your desk
[9:43] to do the work.
[9:45] Yes.
[9:46] And you build that kind of network.
[9:48] You have an abundance of referrals and network
[9:52] to not just feed you the defeated team
[9:56] and that's scaling and that's leveraging.
[9:59] Yeah, so I really like the way you talk about this
[10:02] because you're speaking in ways that attorneys,
[10:04] I think, can really relate to and value
[10:06] your quantifying how relationships can be effective
[10:10] at helping you build your business.
[10:13] So if an attorney is listening right now
[10:16] and really gets it, they hope they are right.
[10:20] What if they're saying, okay,
[10:21] I see the value of relationship building.
[10:24] You've got my attention, but what if they then say,
[10:27] but I just don't have time.
[10:28] Where am I going to work that in?
[10:29] Because I still have to get the billable hours.
[10:32] How do I find time to actually develop connections
[10:35] with people?
[10:36] What do we tell them?
[10:37] It's the, Amy, it is a great question
[10:40] and it's something I get asked a lot
[10:42] and I get a lot of pushback.
[10:44] I personally remember you and I are still business owners.
[10:49] Okay.
[10:51] So we have the same problem as the attorneys.
[10:55] So how do I find the time?
[10:57] Is the first thing I love you for is if I can do it,
[11:01] what, how can I help others do it?
[11:03] So the first thing I do for myself
[11:05] and then I got my clients is I want,
[11:07] I like an organized schedule, okay?
[11:10] I am not networking five days a week.
[11:13] I am not running like a, like the road runner
[11:16] from the cartoon today in every directions
[11:19] and going 100 miles an hour and getting nowhere.
[11:22] I think about things very strategically.
[11:25] So I pick a couple of groups to get truly involved in.
[11:29] Truly involved in, right?
[11:31] So I'm at a leadership capacity.
[11:34] People know me, I know them.
[11:36] I get, I get that together with the groups.
[11:39] I will see them outside.
[11:40] I will talk to people.
[11:42] I put things on my calendar very in an organized fashion,
[11:47] meaning I prefer when I can not to do lunches.
[11:52] It's the middle of the day.
[11:53] It disrupts the flow, but I will do early morning
[11:58] get togethers.
[11:59] I will do the end of the day get togethers
[12:01] and very often sometimes it's with one person,
[12:04] but I also strategically try to do several people
[12:07] and I pull people together
[12:09] because I think it's helpful to introduce other people.
[12:12] We're doing a gift forward for them.
[12:15] What mirrors back to us is we look at a,
[12:17] as a higher level leader by doing it.
[12:20] Yes.
[12:21] That's right.
[12:22] We are bringing people together to introduce,
[12:25] to refer and that could be some different lawyers
[12:28] in different fields.
[12:29] It might be a financial person, a CPA or some other,
[12:32] some other resources that are helpful to people's networks,
[12:38] people from different cities.
[12:39] So I'm heading to Chicago in a couple of days
[12:43] to speak at a conference,
[12:45] I'm speaking on succession planning.
[12:47] And so I'm also seeing a whole bunch of people
[12:50] I know in Chicago.
[12:52] And I'm also reintroducing people to one another.
[12:55] So leverage, leverage, leverage, last.
[12:59] I saw that in action when we met,
[13:00] because we met at a conference in Florida
[13:03] in Fort Lauderdale and as part of your time
[13:07] at this week-long conference,
[13:08] you were not only meeting people there, like you met me,
[13:12] but you also sent me a couple of times.
[13:13] I'm going to Miami because I have some context there.
[13:16] I want to say, you know, you were really strategic
[13:18] about the use of your time,
[13:20] making sure you had enough time at the conference
[13:22] to meet people, but you were also asking yourself,
[13:24] who do I know in this area, who I could connect with
[13:27] and further my relationship with?
[13:29] Exactly.
[13:30] And we're all not just attorneys,
[13:33] but we're all short on time.
[13:34] Yeah, life is busy.
[13:36] Life is busy.
[13:37] It's a fact of life.
[13:38] Life is busy.
[13:39] We're supposed to be enjoying life as well.
[13:42] OK, that is a high quality, a high value on, you know,
[13:48] a grandmother I'm involved in.
[13:51] I like to be active.
[13:52] I like to garden.
[13:53] I like to play pickleball.
[13:54] I like to do all kinds of things, right?
[13:57] So, you know, I look at time, energy, and money.
[14:02] And that, me, is a dance.
[14:04] Where do I put my time and energy that has great results?
[14:09] And sometimes that is in my garden,
[14:12] because that might clear my head and increase the activity
[14:16] for strategy for my own business.
[14:19] Where, what clients do I touch?
[14:21] What relationships am I touching?
[14:24] I also have a strong policy of if somebody
[14:29] doesn't feel like my cup of tea.
[14:32] It's OK.
[14:34] Yes, I don't do something because it will build my business,
[14:38] or I'll make money, or anything like that,
[14:41] with that person that I just don't align with.
[14:43] I think value alignment is really important.
[14:46] I want to build relationships.
[14:48] I build with relationships with people
[14:49] that I really do want to sit down
[14:51] and have a cup of coffee with.
[14:52] I really want to enjoy a meal with.
[14:54] It's not a hardship, it's a joy.
[14:56] Yeah, I so agree with what you're saying
[14:58] that it's essential when we're trying to be successful
[15:03] on every level, that we align ourselves with things
[15:06] that feel right.
[15:07] And oftentimes, I think people interact
[15:09] with others out of obligation,
[15:11] or because they think, I don't really like this person,
[15:13] but I think I could benefit financially from them
[15:16] at some point.
[15:16] And I think what you've seen in your life
[15:19] is probably similar to what I see,
[15:20] that when you go against what your intuition is saying,
[15:24] it doesn't usually lead to a good place.
[15:26] And I think, when we look at lasting legacy,
[15:29] which is really important to me,
[15:31] like I mentioned, I was speaking on succession planning,
[15:33] I do a lot of strategic planning
[15:35] and a lot of succession planning in the work I do,
[15:37] with yes.
[15:38] And we think about lasting legacy.
[15:40] And I don't think succession is about retirement.
[15:44] I think it's about legacy.
[15:46] And if I can build a company that has lasting legacy,
[15:51] it has that lasting legacy by the relationships
[15:54] I've built that have brought a business,
[15:57] the relationships I've built internally
[15:59] within the organization, the relationships
[16:03] and the mentorship that I've done
[16:05] in developing people up, all of those relationships
[16:09] are really valuable and important.
[16:12] Agreed.
[16:13] And I know from the current research
[16:15] that leadership has changed dramatically
[16:18] because people are looking for relationships at work now.
[16:21] They're not getting that so much out in the community
[16:23] because we don't have community centers.
[16:25] Like what you see when people would go to church a lot more
[16:28] and socialize with their neighbors
[16:30] and maybe go to the Y with other people in the neighborhood.
[16:32] So people don't get that.
[16:34] People are more isolated than ever.
[16:35] So at work, they want to know that they're cared about.
[16:38] They want to work with people who value them
[16:40] and want to have a relationship with them.
[16:43] And I think law firms are starting to catch on to that too.
[16:49] Another question I have because I hear this a lot,
[16:51] I'm talking to attorneys in my own consulting work
[16:54] and coaching work and they understand what you and I
[16:56] are now saying about relationships,
[16:57] especially if you want to build a legacy, if you're really ambitious.
[17:01] And those kind of sheepishly say to me,
[17:03] well, I used to have relationships.
[17:06] I just have ignored my relationships for so long.
[17:08] I don't even, I feel kind of embarrassed to,
[17:11] and what if people get angry if I call them
[17:13] and say after five years, I'm finally returning that phone call
[17:16] or you know, haven't seen each other all this time
[17:18] and let's get together.
[17:21] What if they think I'm not genuine?
[17:23] So what advice do you have for attorneys?
[17:25] You say, yeah, I need to get back on track with this,
[17:27] but I don't know what kind of response
[17:30] I'm going to get from people.
[17:31] I am the most transparent.
[17:33] You know, I know there's a big word authenticity
[17:35] that people love.
[17:37] I think it's a little overused at this point
[17:40] ever because I hope he authentic.
[17:42] I'll just say, I'm transparent.
[17:45] I am, I am who I am who I am.
[17:48] When I mess up, I say I messed up.
[17:51] When I fall in off track on a relationship,
[17:54] I jump back in and say, I'm so sorry, life got busy.
[17:58] I really miss our connecting.
[18:00] Do you have a few minutes to catch up?
[18:03] I just lay it out there.
[18:04] You know, people say, I look like the bigger idiot.
[18:06] I hate to say it that way,
[18:07] but I look like the bigger idiot.
[18:10] When he said, well, let me explain, you know,
[18:14] this happened and this happened and this happened
[18:16] and it's like, hold on, just nobody cares.
[18:19] What I really care about is wow, you were thinking of me.
[18:22] And when I get those real notes back,
[18:24] I was like, hey, it's been a while.
[18:26] Yes.
[18:27] I was thinking about you.
[18:29] I'm like, yeah.
[18:29] It was so sweet, that's so nice.
[18:31] I feel wonderful.
[18:33] Uh-huh.
[18:34] Yeah.
[18:35] And then I can move forward.
[18:37] One thing that really struck me when we met
[18:40] and this I think has elevated the relationship
[18:43] that we have faster than it might have been,
[18:46] uh, and many have advanced otherwise,
[18:48] was you were very honest with me from the beginning.
[18:50] You said to me, you know, I feel that we have a connection
[18:52] and I want to pursue this connection with you.
[18:55] Um, and we've done that.
[18:56] Uh, so I like that you are genuine
[18:59] and you try to be authentic
[19:01] and you talk a lot about transactional communication
[19:04] as opposed to genuine communication.
[19:06] And how do attorneys know the difference?
[19:09] How do they know when someone is just trying to make a connection
[19:12] because they want something or someone is trying to connect
[19:15] because they really want a meaningful connection with them
[19:18] that could lead to a variety of opportunities.
[19:20] But mostly they like the person.
[19:22] You know, I did the like check first.
[19:25] I did a like check first.
[19:27] And in that like check, I have, and I, this is,
[19:31] this is my sound a little bit non-legal
[19:34] and I'm okay with that.
[19:35] Uh-huh.
[19:36] There's something called a gut check.
[19:38] Check in with your gut.
[19:40] When you think somebody is playing you,
[19:43] if we check in with our gut, we know we're being played.
[19:48] And I'm going to just put it that way.
[19:50] Like the person who like wants something from you
[19:53] and they just want access to the people you know,
[19:56] they want access to something.
[19:58] Mm-hmm.
[19:59] When I have that feeling, it's like,
[20:01] okay, so just, I, again, I'm transparent.
[20:05] So I'll just look at that person.
[20:06] It's like, so what drove you to get on the call today?
[20:09] Uh-huh.
[20:10] That's a good question.
[20:11] Yeah.
[20:12] And then I sit there in silence.
[20:14] And I let them say, well, I was hoping.
[20:16] I was like, okay, so let's talk about it.
[20:18] And it might ethically work for me or it might not ethically work for me.
[20:22] But I don't go, I don't play games.
[20:25] I don't go down this long list of, do you think is it right?
[20:29] Is it wrong?
[20:30] I do that gut check.
[20:32] If something does not feel right, I check in with my gut.
[20:34] And then I just take that breath and I say,
[20:37] so what drove you wouldn't want to get on the call today?
[20:40] And I think it's an early valid question.
[20:42] Sometimes people say, well, I was, and I did this call yesterday.
[20:46] Somebody said, you know, I was really intrigued you.
[20:49] You were speaking and you shared your book and I'm writing
[20:52] and I wanted to see like, how did you get that done?
[20:55] I'm like, great, let's talk about it.
[20:57] And then I can, you know, it's not a business development,
[21:00] but we also never know because we develop a good relationship.
[21:04] But I would say I was asked the question
[21:06] and they were transparent back and I was cool with that.
[21:09] And so what you're talking about is really taking the space
[21:12] to get in touch with your own feelings
[21:15] when you're with somebody.
[21:17] And of course, that takes time.
[21:19] You know, I see so many attorneys
[21:21] that are just rushing through their day
[21:22] and thinking, oh, I'm checking off so many things
[21:25] and it could be a meeting like you did just described
[21:27] just trying to get through a meeting
[21:29] and they don't really process anything.
[21:32] They're not really thinking in terms of,
[21:34] well, how do I really feel about this?
[21:36] And what do I really want to get out of a meeting
[21:38] or what do I really want to ask someone?
[21:40] So how can we get attorneys to slow down a little bit?
[21:44] This is a huge question, but enough to really do those gut checks.
[21:49] I have something that I usually just say,
[21:52] take a deep breath in.
[21:54] Mm-hmm.
[21:56] And I think there's a power in breath.
[21:59] I think there's the large power in it.
[22:00] So I'll talk about it from like two perspective.
[22:03] Yes.
[22:04] When we need to slow down and actually listen,
[22:06] and we often do, because our minds are going a mile
[22:09] and then it, so we're not actually listening.
[22:14] Take a deep breath in, let it out,
[22:18] and then look somebody in the eye and listen
[22:20] and see what's going on between meetings,
[22:24] between working on this legal brief
[22:27] and going to the next meeting
[22:28] or the next action I need to take.
[22:31] I take a deep breath, I take one to three deep breaths.
[22:34] It takes just 60 seconds.
[22:37] You're not losing time people.
[22:38] Attorneys you're right.
[22:40] You're actually gaining focus?
[22:43] Yes.
[22:44] And when you do this, and it's again,
[22:47] that's 60 seconds, you will be more productive.
[22:50] So that's one of the keys, that's one of the tools I use,
[22:54] one of the tools I talk to a lot of people about.
[22:58] You want clarity and a decision.
[23:00] Take a couple of deep breaths, ground yourself,
[23:03] recenter, and then we'll see
[23:07] where is the decision I'm making
[23:09] and why is it the decision I'm making?
[23:11] Where does it lead us?
[23:13] What makes sense?
[23:15] Right, so taking that time out for connecting with others
[23:19] and for connecting with yourself, that gets you
[23:22] where you want to go so much more quickly, ultimately,
[23:25] because you're not making as many mistakes
[23:28] with your decision-making and with communication.
[23:31] I talk all the time about how we have so many ways
[23:34] to communicate with technology, but there's more miscommunication
[23:37] than ever before.
[23:38] More people feeling they're not getting their message across,
[23:41] they're not being understood, they're not being respected.
[23:43] And it's all because we're not taking these spaces
[23:45] that you're talking about and we're not really asking
[23:49] how do I feel about this or we're not really asking
[23:52] how can I get to know this other person better
[23:54] and how can I make sure we're communicating effectively
[23:57] without distraction.
[23:59] And when you end to get to a conversation
[24:02] if you're doing it by Zoom or in person,
[24:04] give yourself the advantage and the grace of just at the end
[24:09] and saying, what was helpful today when we met for you?
[24:14] And then what do we want to do next?
[24:16] Do we want to meet for another 20?
[24:18] Do we want to get together on Zoom
[24:20] or teams for a few minutes, maybe in the next quarter
[24:24] and set things up right then and there.
[24:26] So stop trying to chase down this network building
[24:31] and give yourself it, that's the grace part.
[24:33] Give yourself the easing grace and the calendaring
[24:36] and the CRMs and everything else
[24:39] to just get it done right then it is.
[24:42] So it seems like a good message to leave people with
[24:45] is just take a first step.
[24:47] If people are hearing this and saying,
[24:49] I want to get started on this.
[24:50] So what would that first step be?
[24:51] What's one step people can take IB to get them
[24:54] into connecting with themselves,
[24:57] connecting with other people to build a legacy
[25:00] that is really textured and fulfilling,
[25:03] that they can leave behind eventually.
[25:05] I would say the first step is,
[25:06] give yourself that moment, take it with deep breath
[25:10] and then write down five people you'd like to connect with.
[25:16] Okay, that is just five.
[25:18] That's a great idea.
[25:18] That's five, not 25, not 105, five people.
[25:23] Yes.
[25:24] And this week you have five days of the week.
[25:27] So one a day, an action one a day.
[25:29] You start with the baby steps
[25:31] and you build the consistency for that.
[25:34] That's where you're going to gain your traction.
[25:37] I really like that and I always talk about small steps.
[25:40] We'll get you further than big huge leaps.
[25:42] So thank you so much IB for joining me
[25:45] for this episode of Lawyer Like an Athlete Podcast.
[25:48] And if you'd like to learn more about my work everyone
[25:52] in my book, Lawyer Like an Athlete,
[25:53] just visit my website, Amywoodpsyd.com.
[25:58] If you want to buy the book,
[25:59] you can go to the ABA bookstore,
[26:03] which you can access through ABA.org.
[26:05] And to learn more about IB Slater,
[26:07] her coaching, speaking, and her books,
[26:10] visit her website, SlaterSuccess.com.
[26:14] And if you enjoy this conversation, please subscribe,
[26:17] share the episode and leave a review.
[26:19] And we'll see you next time on Lawyer Like an Athlete Podcast.
[26:23] Thanks everyone.
[26:24] Thanks for watching.
[26:26] Be sure to hit that like and subscribe button
[26:29] and leave us a review in the comments.
[0:07] Welcome to Lawyer Like an Athlete Podcast.
[0:10] I'm Dr. Amy Wood.
[0:11] I'm a licensed psychologist, executive coach,
[0:14] and author of Lawyer Like an Athlete
[0:16] and ABA published book that focuses
[0:18] on sustainable high performance and the legal profession.
[0:21] And today I'm joined by my colleague Ivy Slater.
[0:24] She's CEO of Slater Success.
[0:27] She's an executive coach, speaker, best-selling author,
[0:30] and also host of the Her Success Story podcast.
[0:35] Ivy has spent decades helping leaders
[0:37] and organizations grow through strategic leadership,
[0:41] authentic relationships, and intentional decision-making.
[0:44] And I want to emphasize authentic relationships
[0:47] as a part of success today,
[0:48] because that's what we're going to explore.
[0:51] How relationships that attorneys build can influence
[0:54] not only their careers, but also their performance,
[0:57] the resilience, and long-term success.
[1:00] So welcome, Ivy.
[1:02] Thank you, Amy.
[1:03] It's wonderful to be here with you.
[1:05] Great to have you.
[1:07] So I want to start by asking, I know your work emphasizes
[1:10] the power of authentic relationships,
[1:12] and therefore we're going to focus on that today.
[1:14] What convinced you that relationships
[1:17] are such an important part of long-term success?
[1:21] You know, it's the simple fact
[1:24] that I've owned a business for over 30 years.
[1:27] And I know there are people that continue
[1:31] to either be clients, send me clients
[1:34] from my previous business,
[1:37] from relationships I've had for 30 years,
[1:40] from relationships I've built, from people saying,
[1:42] oh, and I literally, right before I got on this podcast,
[1:46] somebody reached out to me
[1:47] that I haven't spoken to in several years to say,
[1:50] Ivy, you wouldn't believe who are new in from CEO
[1:53] as she knows you, blah, blah, blah, blah,
[1:55] we should get on the phone and catch up.
[1:58] And it's serendipitous that email came through
[2:03] right before we're talking about this.
[2:05] That's right.
[2:06] I truly tracked relationships kept in touch with people.
[2:11] I've been fired by clients in my old business
[2:15] when I went to printing company all those years ago.
[2:18] And they went on to hire me in Slater Success.
[2:23] I've done work with some of the top companies
[2:25] by the relationships that I've had.
[2:27] I've received clients from people.
[2:29] I've known that I've worked with this person
[2:33] that I referred to as a vendor.
[2:36] You know, I was there vendor back in the day
[2:38] and I'm probably going back to,
[2:40] I hate to say the late 90s early 2000s
[2:45] and we have picked up as far as a manufacturing problem
[2:50] and I was released from the vendor list.
[2:52] That's essentially being fired as a vendor.
[2:55] I still have coffee with her several times.
[2:57] Your drinks are a lunch or whatever.
[2:59] We still receive business from her,
[3:02] do business with her and get referrals from her.
[3:06] And when I drafted Amy,
[3:08] I tracked seven figures back to this one person.
[3:12] That says it all to be incredible.
[3:15] Or at the value of relationships.
[3:17] Yeah, and I really like what you said
[3:18] about meeting for coffee and having lunch.
[3:21] I feel the same way.
[3:22] I meet people in person.
[3:24] And I think that's probably whenever I can.
[3:26] I have a lot of Zoom meetings too.
[3:27] But I think that in person part is so integral
[3:31] to having relationships over time
[3:33] that lead to a lot of opportunities.
[3:36] And sometimes when we meet people,
[3:38] we don't always talk about quote unquote business, right?
[3:42] We really talk about our lives, what's going on.
[3:46] Where we're traveling.
[3:47] I mean, this particular person last time we met up for coffee,
[3:51] it was like, you know, the Pilates
[3:53] versus some gardening things, then business,
[3:56] then circle back to some visionary work
[3:59] and then, you know, some connections
[4:01] and then it went back to honestly, went back to Pilates.
[4:04] Yes.
[4:05] Well, I think what people don't understand
[4:07] about building relationships that lead to opportunities
[4:10] is first of all, it's not always about, you know,
[4:12] just giving someone your business card,
[4:14] expecting they're going to call you.
[4:15] That really works.
[4:16] It's more about getting to know someone first as a person.
[4:19] And I remember reading the autobiography
[4:22] of the guy who started Zappos,
[4:24] the really successful shoe company.
[4:26] And what he said is that the average networking meeting
[4:30] takes about seven years to pay off.
[4:32] And you never know how it's going to pay off.
[4:34] And he gave this example of having a meeting with someone
[4:38] didn't think it would go anywhere.
[4:39] And then seven years later,
[4:41] this person knew a realtor who they referred to him
[4:44] and it helped him to buy his new house.
[4:47] So I think it's about being open to how an opportunity
[4:51] might show up.
[4:52] So why is it that attorneys?
[4:55] And I hope that I jumped in for a sec.
[4:58] Because you brought up the CEO of Zappos
[5:01] probably about 15 years ago.
[5:03] I had the opportunity to tour their factory.
[5:06] They're all out in Las Vegas.
[5:09] And maybe it was in Henderson, Las Vegas,
[5:12] some town outside, don't quote me.
[5:15] And we got to on this tour, they're like,
[5:18] you may like when we go into the department,
[5:20] like they know we're coming through
[5:21] and you actually may just sit down and talk to anyone.
[5:24] So hello, I did.
[5:27] And I remember this conversation
[5:29] because it was, it talked about relationship building.
[5:32] And they, they were chatting with them.
[5:35] It was myself and two other people
[5:36] and we're asking them some questions.
[5:39] And it's like, well, every person
[5:40] sits on a customer service desk.
[5:42] I'm out of what role you're in.
[5:44] Customer service, like speaking to your clients,
[5:47] your customers is key.
[5:50] And I'm like, well, what's the craziest thing
[5:52] that makes this company different
[5:55] in customer service to your perspective?
[5:58] And they said, we get a discretionary fund
[6:01] that if we speak to somebody
[6:03] and we want to do something, we can do it.
[6:06] And I'm like, what are you talking about?
[6:08] What does that need?
[6:10] And this gentleman shared an example.
[6:13] He goes, this woman called in a very distressed tone
[6:18] and they're like, I need a pair of black shoes.
[6:21] There's a funeral, my clothes, whoever,
[6:23] like parent or a spout, like died.
[6:25] And I need this now.
[6:27] And they're like, slow down.
[6:30] I will get you everything you need.
[6:31] And he goes, I just started filling
[6:33] and I get sent several options
[6:35] and I asked the woman in the address
[6:37] and then I said, where is the future?
[6:40] Where is the service to the funeral?
[6:42] And he goes, and I use that discretionary ability
[6:46] to send flowers on behalf of my name and the company.
[6:52] Now, let's talk about customer loyalty and retention.
[6:56] And in every business book you could talk about
[6:59] doing business with people you know like and trust.
[7:02] And that's the power of building those relationships.
[7:05] We're on that relationship meter of no like and trust.
[7:08] Does this person now see that organization?
[7:13] So if you're a lawyer, when you're a law firm,
[7:16] when you're building that,
[7:18] when you have any situation,
[7:20] you watch your first call and then that relationship,
[7:25] not the attorney, the relationship.
[7:28] So we understand this.
[7:29] And I think most really successful people
[7:32] understand the importance of relationships.
[7:34] But why is it that attorneys, a lot of them I work with
[7:37] and I'm sure you have this experience here,
[7:39] they don't understand the need to take time
[7:42] to have relationships with others
[7:44] and to make these kinds of connections
[7:45] and to really show empathy and show a human side
[7:50] instead of just transactional.
[7:51] What is that all about?
[7:53] Attorneys get caught up in and they're not wrong
[7:57] in the billable hour.
[7:59] Yeah, like I have to bill, I have to bill, I have to bill.
[8:02] And I'm thinking as you asked this question,
[8:04] two different clients came to mind.
[8:06] Okay, and one is I had a conversation
[8:10] about building more relationships and getting out there
[8:13] and you know, and like I used to do that,
[8:15] I just need to sit at my desk and build my own.
[8:18] And I was like, well, isn't it interesting
[8:21] if you took like the two hour period
[8:24] and you developed X amount of relationships
[8:27] in that time of the people you're already now
[8:29] when you hosted a lunch of maybe four people, you know,
[8:34] three, four, five people and you hosted it
[8:37] and then what business would that drive to not just you
[8:41] but your entire organization
[8:43] that has that ripple effect and growth.
[8:47] And there's another client
[8:49] that when we started working together,
[8:51] you know, I was asking about like what is she do
[8:54] for networking and to do just like, well,
[8:55] I like to speak and it's like, how do you follow up
[8:58] and what are you and I can just, well,
[9:00] I used to work blah, blah, blah, blah.
[9:03] And before I started my own firm,
[9:05] and now if I think about it, I probably have
[9:08] and she's thinking and thinking and thinking
[9:10] and looking at the sky, maybe 102 to 50 individual people
[9:16] that I was like, okay, slow down.
[9:18] So you're sitting on a goldmine.
[9:20] You're sitting on a goldmine.
[9:23] And when we think about that long-term legacy
[9:25] for the firm, if we cultivate these several hundred
[9:30] relationships, what's that long-term legacy
[9:34] from when she builds as she scales,
[9:38] even as she takes vacation and she has other staff,
[9:41] what's it's not about just sitting at your desk
[9:43] to do the work.
[9:45] Yes.
[9:46] And you build that kind of network.
[9:48] You have an abundance of referrals and network
[9:52] to not just feed you the defeated team
[9:56] and that's scaling and that's leveraging.
[9:59] Yeah, so I really like the way you talk about this
[10:02] because you're speaking in ways that attorneys,
[10:04] I think, can really relate to and value
[10:06] your quantifying how relationships can be effective
[10:10] at helping you build your business.
[10:13] So if an attorney is listening right now
[10:16] and really gets it, they hope they are right.
[10:20] What if they're saying, okay,
[10:21] I see the value of relationship building.
[10:24] You've got my attention, but what if they then say,
[10:27] but I just don't have time.
[10:28] Where am I going to work that in?
[10:29] Because I still have to get the billable hours.
[10:32] How do I find time to actually develop connections
[10:35] with people?
[10:36] What do we tell them?
[10:37] It's the, Amy, it is a great question
[10:40] and it's something I get asked a lot
[10:42] and I get a lot of pushback.
[10:44] I personally remember you and I are still business owners.
[10:49] Okay.
[10:51] So we have the same problem as the attorneys.
[10:55] So how do I find the time?
[10:57] Is the first thing I love you for is if I can do it,
[11:01] what, how can I help others do it?
[11:03] So the first thing I do for myself
[11:05] and then I got my clients is I want,
[11:07] I like an organized schedule, okay?
[11:10] I am not networking five days a week.
[11:13] I am not running like a, like the road runner
[11:16] from the cartoon today in every directions
[11:19] and going 100 miles an hour and getting nowhere.
[11:22] I think about things very strategically.
[11:25] So I pick a couple of groups to get truly involved in.
[11:29] Truly involved in, right?
[11:31] So I'm at a leadership capacity.
[11:34] People know me, I know them.
[11:36] I get, I get that together with the groups.
[11:39] I will see them outside.
[11:40] I will talk to people.
[11:42] I put things on my calendar very in an organized fashion,
[11:47] meaning I prefer when I can not to do lunches.
[11:52] It's the middle of the day.
[11:53] It disrupts the flow, but I will do early morning
[11:58] get togethers.
[11:59] I will do the end of the day get togethers
[12:01] and very often sometimes it's with one person,
[12:04] but I also strategically try to do several people
[12:07] and I pull people together
[12:09] because I think it's helpful to introduce other people.
[12:12] We're doing a gift forward for them.
[12:15] What mirrors back to us is we look at a,
[12:17] as a higher level leader by doing it.
[12:20] Yes.
[12:21] That's right.
[12:22] We are bringing people together to introduce,
[12:25] to refer and that could be some different lawyers
[12:28] in different fields.
[12:29] It might be a financial person, a CPA or some other,
[12:32] some other resources that are helpful to people's networks,
[12:38] people from different cities.
[12:39] So I'm heading to Chicago in a couple of days
[12:43] to speak at a conference,
[12:45] I'm speaking on succession planning.
[12:47] And so I'm also seeing a whole bunch of people
[12:50] I know in Chicago.
[12:52] And I'm also reintroducing people to one another.
[12:55] So leverage, leverage, leverage, last.
[12:59] I saw that in action when we met,
[13:00] because we met at a conference in Florida
[13:03] in Fort Lauderdale and as part of your time
[13:07] at this week-long conference,
[13:08] you were not only meeting people there, like you met me,
[13:12] but you also sent me a couple of times.
[13:13] I'm going to Miami because I have some context there.
[13:16] I want to say, you know, you were really strategic
[13:18] about the use of your time,
[13:20] making sure you had enough time at the conference
[13:22] to meet people, but you were also asking yourself,
[13:24] who do I know in this area, who I could connect with
[13:27] and further my relationship with?
[13:29] Exactly.
[13:30] And we're all not just attorneys,
[13:33] but we're all short on time.
[13:34] Yeah, life is busy.
[13:36] Life is busy.
[13:37] It's a fact of life.
[13:38] Life is busy.
[13:39] We're supposed to be enjoying life as well.
[13:42] OK, that is a high quality, a high value on, you know,
[13:48] a grandmother I'm involved in.
[13:51] I like to be active.
[13:52] I like to garden.
[13:53] I like to play pickleball.
[13:54] I like to do all kinds of things, right?
[13:57] So, you know, I look at time, energy, and money.
[14:02] And that, me, is a dance.
[14:04] Where do I put my time and energy that has great results?
[14:09] And sometimes that is in my garden,
[14:12] because that might clear my head and increase the activity
[14:16] for strategy for my own business.
[14:19] Where, what clients do I touch?
[14:21] What relationships am I touching?
[14:24] I also have a strong policy of if somebody
[14:29] doesn't feel like my cup of tea.
[14:32] It's OK.
[14:34] Yes, I don't do something because it will build my business,
[14:38] or I'll make money, or anything like that,
[14:41] with that person that I just don't align with.
[14:43] I think value alignment is really important.
[14:46] I want to build relationships.
[14:48] I build with relationships with people
[14:49] that I really do want to sit down
[14:51] and have a cup of coffee with.
[14:52] I really want to enjoy a meal with.
[14:54] It's not a hardship, it's a joy.
[14:56] Yeah, I so agree with what you're saying
[14:58] that it's essential when we're trying to be successful
[15:03] on every level, that we align ourselves with things
[15:06] that feel right.
[15:07] And oftentimes, I think people interact
[15:09] with others out of obligation,
[15:11] or because they think, I don't really like this person,
[15:13] but I think I could benefit financially from them
[15:16] at some point.
[15:16] And I think what you've seen in your life
[15:19] is probably similar to what I see,
[15:20] that when you go against what your intuition is saying,
[15:24] it doesn't usually lead to a good place.
[15:26] And I think, when we look at lasting legacy,
[15:29] which is really important to me,
[15:31] like I mentioned, I was speaking on succession planning,
[15:33] I do a lot of strategic planning
[15:35] and a lot of succession planning in the work I do,
[15:37] with yes.
[15:38] And we think about lasting legacy.
[15:40] And I don't think succession is about retirement.
[15:44] I think it's about legacy.
[15:46] And if I can build a company that has lasting legacy,
[15:51] it has that lasting legacy by the relationships
[15:54] I've built that have brought a business,
[15:57] the relationships I've built internally
[15:59] within the organization, the relationships
[16:03] and the mentorship that I've done
[16:05] in developing people up, all of those relationships
[16:09] are really valuable and important.
[16:12] Agreed.
[16:13] And I know from the current research
[16:15] that leadership has changed dramatically
[16:18] because people are looking for relationships at work now.
[16:21] They're not getting that so much out in the community
[16:23] because we don't have community centers.
[16:25] Like what you see when people would go to church a lot more
[16:28] and socialize with their neighbors
[16:30] and maybe go to the Y with other people in the neighborhood.
[16:32] So people don't get that.
[16:34] People are more isolated than ever.
[16:35] So at work, they want to know that they're cared about.
[16:38] They want to work with people who value them
[16:40] and want to have a relationship with them.
[16:43] And I think law firms are starting to catch on to that too.
[16:49] Another question I have because I hear this a lot,
[16:51] I'm talking to attorneys in my own consulting work
[16:54] and coaching work and they understand what you and I
[16:56] are now saying about relationships,
[16:57] especially if you want to build a legacy, if you're really ambitious.
[17:01] And those kind of sheepishly say to me,
[17:03] well, I used to have relationships.
[17:06] I just have ignored my relationships for so long.
[17:08] I don't even, I feel kind of embarrassed to,
[17:11] and what if people get angry if I call them
[17:13] and say after five years, I'm finally returning that phone call
[17:16] or you know, haven't seen each other all this time
[17:18] and let's get together.
[17:21] What if they think I'm not genuine?
[17:23] So what advice do you have for attorneys?
[17:25] You say, yeah, I need to get back on track with this,
[17:27] but I don't know what kind of response
[17:30] I'm going to get from people.
[17:31] I am the most transparent.
[17:33] You know, I know there's a big word authenticity
[17:35] that people love.
[17:37] I think it's a little overused at this point
[17:40] ever because I hope he authentic.
[17:42] I'll just say, I'm transparent.
[17:45] I am, I am who I am who I am.
[17:48] When I mess up, I say I messed up.
[17:51] When I fall in off track on a relationship,
[17:54] I jump back in and say, I'm so sorry, life got busy.
[17:58] I really miss our connecting.
[18:00] Do you have a few minutes to catch up?
[18:03] I just lay it out there.
[18:04] You know, people say, I look like the bigger idiot.
[18:06] I hate to say it that way,
[18:07] but I look like the bigger idiot.
[18:10] When he said, well, let me explain, you know,
[18:14] this happened and this happened and this happened
[18:16] and it's like, hold on, just nobody cares.
[18:19] What I really care about is wow, you were thinking of me.
[18:22] And when I get those real notes back,
[18:24] I was like, hey, it's been a while.
[18:26] Yes.
[18:27] I was thinking about you.
[18:29] I'm like, yeah.
[18:29] It was so sweet, that's so nice.
[18:31] I feel wonderful.
[18:33] Uh-huh.
[18:34] Yeah.
[18:35] And then I can move forward.
[18:37] One thing that really struck me when we met
[18:40] and this I think has elevated the relationship
[18:43] that we have faster than it might have been,
[18:46] uh, and many have advanced otherwise,
[18:48] was you were very honest with me from the beginning.
[18:50] You said to me, you know, I feel that we have a connection
[18:52] and I want to pursue this connection with you.
[18:55] Um, and we've done that.
[18:56] Uh, so I like that you are genuine
[18:59] and you try to be authentic
[19:01] and you talk a lot about transactional communication
[19:04] as opposed to genuine communication.
[19:06] And how do attorneys know the difference?
[19:09] How do they know when someone is just trying to make a connection
[19:12] because they want something or someone is trying to connect
[19:15] because they really want a meaningful connection with them
[19:18] that could lead to a variety of opportunities.
[19:20] But mostly they like the person.
[19:22] You know, I did the like check first.
[19:25] I did a like check first.
[19:27] And in that like check, I have, and I, this is,
[19:31] this is my sound a little bit non-legal
[19:34] and I'm okay with that.
[19:35] Uh-huh.
[19:36] There's something called a gut check.
[19:38] Check in with your gut.
[19:40] When you think somebody is playing you,
[19:43] if we check in with our gut, we know we're being played.
[19:48] And I'm going to just put it that way.
[19:50] Like the person who like wants something from you
[19:53] and they just want access to the people you know,
[19:56] they want access to something.
[19:58] Mm-hmm.
[19:59] When I have that feeling, it's like,
[20:01] okay, so just, I, again, I'm transparent.
[20:05] So I'll just look at that person.
[20:06] It's like, so what drove you to get on the call today?
[20:09] Uh-huh.
[20:10] That's a good question.
[20:11] Yeah.
[20:12] And then I sit there in silence.
[20:14] And I let them say, well, I was hoping.
[20:16] I was like, okay, so let's talk about it.
[20:18] And it might ethically work for me or it might not ethically work for me.
[20:22] But I don't go, I don't play games.
[20:25] I don't go down this long list of, do you think is it right?
[20:29] Is it wrong?
[20:30] I do that gut check.
[20:32] If something does not feel right, I check in with my gut.
[20:34] And then I just take that breath and I say,
[20:37] so what drove you wouldn't want to get on the call today?
[20:40] And I think it's an early valid question.
[20:42] Sometimes people say, well, I was, and I did this call yesterday.
[20:46] Somebody said, you know, I was really intrigued you.
[20:49] You were speaking and you shared your book and I'm writing
[20:52] and I wanted to see like, how did you get that done?
[20:55] I'm like, great, let's talk about it.
[20:57] And then I can, you know, it's not a business development,
[21:00] but we also never know because we develop a good relationship.
[21:04] But I would say I was asked the question
[21:06] and they were transparent back and I was cool with that.
[21:09] And so what you're talking about is really taking the space
[21:12] to get in touch with your own feelings
[21:15] when you're with somebody.
[21:17] And of course, that takes time.
[21:19] You know, I see so many attorneys
[21:21] that are just rushing through their day
[21:22] and thinking, oh, I'm checking off so many things
[21:25] and it could be a meeting like you did just described
[21:27] just trying to get through a meeting
[21:29] and they don't really process anything.
[21:32] They're not really thinking in terms of,
[21:34] well, how do I really feel about this?
[21:36] And what do I really want to get out of a meeting
[21:38] or what do I really want to ask someone?
[21:40] So how can we get attorneys to slow down a little bit?
[21:44] This is a huge question, but enough to really do those gut checks.
[21:49] I have something that I usually just say,
[21:52] take a deep breath in.
[21:54] Mm-hmm.
[21:56] And I think there's a power in breath.
[21:59] I think there's the large power in it.
[22:00] So I'll talk about it from like two perspective.
[22:03] Yes.
[22:04] When we need to slow down and actually listen,
[22:06] and we often do, because our minds are going a mile
[22:09] and then it, so we're not actually listening.
[22:14] Take a deep breath in, let it out,
[22:18] and then look somebody in the eye and listen
[22:20] and see what's going on between meetings,
[22:24] between working on this legal brief
[22:27] and going to the next meeting
[22:28] or the next action I need to take.
[22:31] I take a deep breath, I take one to three deep breaths.
[22:34] It takes just 60 seconds.
[22:37] You're not losing time people.
[22:38] Attorneys you're right.
[22:40] You're actually gaining focus?
[22:43] Yes.
[22:44] And when you do this, and it's again,
[22:47] that's 60 seconds, you will be more productive.
[22:50] So that's one of the keys, that's one of the tools I use,
[22:54] one of the tools I talk to a lot of people about.
[22:58] You want clarity and a decision.
[23:00] Take a couple of deep breaths, ground yourself,
[23:03] recenter, and then we'll see
[23:07] where is the decision I'm making
[23:09] and why is it the decision I'm making?
[23:11] Where does it lead us?
[23:13] What makes sense?
[23:15] Right, so taking that time out for connecting with others
[23:19] and for connecting with yourself, that gets you
[23:22] where you want to go so much more quickly, ultimately,
[23:25] because you're not making as many mistakes
[23:28] with your decision-making and with communication.
[23:31] I talk all the time about how we have so many ways
[23:34] to communicate with technology, but there's more miscommunication
[23:37] than ever before.
[23:38] More people feeling they're not getting their message across,
[23:41] they're not being understood, they're not being respected.
[23:43] And it's all because we're not taking these spaces
[23:45] that you're talking about and we're not really asking
[23:49] how do I feel about this or we're not really asking
[23:52] how can I get to know this other person better
[23:54] and how can I make sure we're communicating effectively
[23:57] without distraction.
[23:59] And when you end to get to a conversation
[24:02] if you're doing it by Zoom or in person,
[24:04] give yourself the advantage and the grace of just at the end
[24:09] and saying, what was helpful today when we met for you?
[24:14] And then what do we want to do next?
[24:16] Do we want to meet for another 20?
[24:18] Do we want to get together on Zoom
[24:20] or teams for a few minutes, maybe in the next quarter
[24:24] and set things up right then and there.
[24:26] So stop trying to chase down this network building
[24:31] and give yourself it, that's the grace part.
[24:33] Give yourself the easing grace and the calendaring
[24:36] and the CRMs and everything else
[24:39] to just get it done right then it is.
[24:42] So it seems like a good message to leave people with
[24:45] is just take a first step.
[24:47] If people are hearing this and saying,
[24:49] I want to get started on this.
[24:50] So what would that first step be?
[24:51] What's one step people can take IB to get them
[24:54] into connecting with themselves,
[24:57] connecting with other people to build a legacy
[25:00] that is really textured and fulfilling,
[25:03] that they can leave behind eventually.
[25:05] I would say the first step is,
[25:06] give yourself that moment, take it with deep breath
[25:10] and then write down five people you'd like to connect with.
[25:16] Okay, that is just five.
[25:18] That's a great idea.
[25:18] That's five, not 25, not 105, five people.
[25:23] Yes.
[25:24] And this week you have five days of the week.
[25:27] So one a day, an action one a day.
[25:29] You start with the baby steps
[25:31] and you build the consistency for that.
[25:34] That's where you're going to gain your traction.
[25:37] I really like that and I always talk about small steps.
[25:40] We'll get you further than big huge leaps.
[25:42] So thank you so much IB for joining me
[25:45] for this episode of Lawyer Like an Athlete Podcast.
[25:48] And if you'd like to learn more about my work everyone
[25:52] in my book, Lawyer Like an Athlete,
[25:53] just visit my website, Amywoodpsyd.com.
[25:58] If you want to buy the book,
[25:59] you can go to the ABA bookstore,
[26:03] which you can access through ABA.org.
[26:05] And to learn more about IB Slater,
[26:07] her coaching, speaking, and her books,
[26:10] visit her website, SlaterSuccess.com.
[26:14] And if you enjoy this conversation, please subscribe,
[26:17] share the episode and leave a review.
[26:19] And we'll see you next time on Lawyer Like an Athlete Podcast.
[26:23] Thanks everyone.
[26:24] Thanks for watching.
[26:26] Be sure to hit that like and subscribe button
[26:29] and leave us a review in the comments.
