What Tech Actually Helps Neurodivergent Students? | Joan Green

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Live captions has become so much better.
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And so it used to be that people would know about captions, watching captions on YouTube, right?
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That's been around for a long time.
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But now there are a lot of students with auditory processing problems or ADHD or, you know, hearing disabilities that really benefit from seeing words as they hear them.
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I mean, there are a whole bunch of cases for that.
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And now it's built in on every phone, in the Chrome browser, where you can just enable it, and even if you're not watching a video but you're just in a conversation or in a classroom, if you're somebody that would do best seeing the words as they're said, that's a free feature on all devices now.
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Welcome back to the Academic Coaching Podcast, brought to you by the Anti-Boring Learning Lab.
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I'm your host, Gretchen Wegner, and this is the show where we dig into the craft of coaching students to take charge of their own learning.
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We're talking study skills, executive function strategies, neurodivergence, and more, so that all students, and most importantly their educators, have the tools and the agency to not bore their own brains in school, and coaching, and life.
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And today we're talking tech.
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My guest is Joan Green, a speech and language pathologist and assistive technology specialist who has spent 40 years, let's say that again, 40 years helping neurodivergent students and their educators use technology to remove barriers and build independence.
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And what I appreciate so much about Joan's approach is that she's not just interested in tech for tech's sake.
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She actually starts where a student is getting stuck and then looks for the simplest tool that might actually help.
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Two of our most important tenets in the Anti-Boring Learning Lab, the least students need to know to get into effective action now, Joan fully embodies in the sphere of technology, and she is a goldmine of the latest apps that can help students get stuff done.
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And today, whoa, we got very practical.
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Joan actually introduces me in real time to a couple of free technology features I didn't even know existed.
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We talk about AI and learning, when technology can increase independence, and when it can actually get in the way, and also how to decide which tools that are out there are actually worth trying.
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And stick around because later I put Joan on the spot with a question I think a lot of academic and executive function coaches have: How much of this tech stuff are we, the practitioners, actually responsible for knowing?
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Joan has some very concrete thoughts about the least we need to know and what we can leave to the tech experts themselves.
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And so without further ado, let's get into it hi, Joan.
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Hello, great to be here
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So good to be here.
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Now, it's been a couple of years since you and I have seen each other.
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It was back at the Art of Motivating Students Summit.
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And so part of why I like to do these podcasts is just catch up with people, as well as share incredible knowledge with our coaching community.
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And so will you just...
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First of all, I remember that you were just starting the Tech Lab community at around the same time as the summit.
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And will you just catch me up and catch our listeners up to who you are and how that's grown in the last two years?
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Yeah, thanks for asking.
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It's one of my favorite things.
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Um, I mean, what I prioritized back then, we were just coming out of COVID, and I was having a lot of family stuff going on, and what I really loved the most was just a sense of community and helping people directly, seeing them, you know, consistently.
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And so it's been a couple of years now, and so every week, right now we're, we're m- meeting every Wednesday.
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It's changed a little bit through the years, but we meet on Wednesdays.
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I vary the time a little bit because we're in different time zones, and people have different obligations.
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And I mostly take the tech talk topics from the participants, so what they're curious about learning, what they're stuck on.
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And then each week I have this 10 to 15-minute tech talk that we record.
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So now there's a library of recordings of the last couple of years that, you know, so there's a lot of information there.
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And then after that, it turns into 45 minutes of ask me anything.
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So it can be on that topic or different topics, and it's, it's hard to know who to go to with tech questions, right?
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And get a live answer from somebody that's in that world.
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Right.
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And when we say that world, we mean the world of educators and technology, right?
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I mean, I know you also serve others besides just parents, students, and educators, but it is, it's true, it's hard.
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You can go to your, like, techy bro kind of guy who can answer the technical questions, but not somebody who really understands learning differences, understands accommodations, and understands what's out there
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Right.
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I would say most of the members are in their 40s, 50s, 60s,
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Yeah.
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somewhere in there, and everyone wants to learn just the basic stuff of how to live a better life, be more productive, help with learning with everyday mainstream devices.
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Ja
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super fancy.
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It's all very practical, um, you know, down-to-earth, everyday stuff, um, you know, for parents and tutors, executive function coaches, speech pathologists,
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हम्म, हम्म।
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a lot of the same, solutions for different people really, right?
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If you
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Ooh.
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who has trouble reading,
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Yeah
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you know, I mean, of course it depends on what the exact problem is, and you always wanna match the solution with the needs of the
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Yeah
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person-focused, but a lot of the solutions really work, um, when, when well-matched, um, across the lifespan.
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Can you think of an example, does one pop to mind about a solution that might work for like a 15-year-old and a 70-year-old or something?
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You know, just some, some example of that
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Ab- absolutely.
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Like the new, the new built-in, um, reading mode of Chrome.
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Ahu
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know, you can right-click on an article in Chrome, and so for a student with dyslexia or visual scanning problems or attention challenges, right?
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It...
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You can change the font size, you can change the voice, you can change the speed, um, listen to it said aloud, and declutter it, get rid of the ads and all that, and that's, that's just as good for a senior with macular
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Ah.
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or, you know.
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So a lot of these tools are good for many different needs.
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It's all about the right match
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Yeah.
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Ooh, so I just have an idea.
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Tell me if this would work on the podcast'cause we're both audio and visual for YouTube.
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But I thought, could I just quick share my screen, uh, for, uh, the blog that I just published today, and can you walk me through what the steps would be to turn that on?
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Sure
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fun,'cause I don't know either.
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And this is new.
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This wasn't...
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I,'cause I thought there were
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it,
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alouds in browsers before
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So there have been Chrome extensions that you can use, like Read&Write for
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A
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you could add, and you could change the view and have a voice.
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But now it's built in for free in Chrome
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Yeah.
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Okay, so here we are.
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Do you see this?
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Yes, I do.
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Okay, so scroll down a little bit so we see the text.
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Okay.
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And so first of all, just because I wanna take care of our audio listeners too, this is my article, When a Good Study Strategy Feels Like Too Much Work.
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So I'm scrolling down so that we don't see the picture and we see the text.
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And now what do I do?
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Right, and if it were, you're, this site is great'cause it doesn't have ads and pop-ups and
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Ja
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So, so that's nice.
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So go, um, put your cursor somewhere where there's no text
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Okay
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and right-click if you're using a mouse or you
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Yeah.
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tap on a touch pad
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Do you see the right click?
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Did that show?
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No.
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So
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so
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s- you're just, um, sharing the actual article, but
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Okay.
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screen.
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All right
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see a choice that says open in Chrome reader or
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Open in reading mode.
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Yes, I, yeah.
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Okay.
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So do that
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Okay, so now we're open, and now I see a little thing on the top
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Can you change your share so that we see what you see, or no?
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Um, oh
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Like instead of just sharing the, um...
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Can you
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Right.
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I don't know if I can.
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I think because that we're in Descript and not Zoom, I'm not sure I can.
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But, um, so let's see.
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I'm going to click play and
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So
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let's
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and reading mode, the first thing you can do is you can go to the different, like where the big A, little A is,
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Yes
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um, and then you can change the size of the font.
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We won't see it for people on YouTube, but
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Right
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it.
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The size of the font, um, the spacing.
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You can, um, you know, make it,
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Yeah
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You could have yellow on blue
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I see.
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Right.
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So I'm changing the, the...
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I mean, people don't see it, so it doesn't matter but I hit the plus and I'm making it super big.
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And, um, that's it.
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Then there's the settings.
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I'm not gonna explore the settings right now, but can I hit the play button?
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Is that what will read it?
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can cha- you can pick the voice, you can pick the speed, and press play and listen to it as it highlights
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Okay.
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Did you hear it?
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Yeah.
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Oh, you guys aren't hearing it.
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Darn it.
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Okay.
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we, we can't hear
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Okay
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of how it is.
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But it's, it's really great because a lot of people do best when maybe they have a dark background or a blue background, or,
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ค่ะ
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highlight the word and the sentence.
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I mean, it's, it's so good, and it's just built into Chrome now, so it, so it's freely available to everybody
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That's great.
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You know, it was funny because I was thinking about if, do I have time to read my blog entries out loud for the, the YouTube channel?
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I was thinking that could be fun.
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I've never seen anyone do that before, but...
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And I think my voice might be more fun than the computer AI voice
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Right.
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But the voices have gotten better,
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Yes.
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Yes
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choices, and sometimes you can download, you know, there's some that are enhanced that you can download that sound better if, if you actually have them downloaded in your computer.
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So sorry that you all didn't get to see or hear that, but it sounds like the trick is a right click on your Chrome page, and then you can choose the reading mode and investigate from there.
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So, ooh, thank you for the hot tip.
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You're welcome
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Is there any other technology that's new this particular school year that you're excited about?
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I mean, there's all the AI.
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That's, you know, the
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Wow.
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right?
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That's a whole topic because, you know, we know that for some students it really hinders learning, right?
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Yes
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cheat and look for shortcuts.
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But for a certain-- when it's matched appropriately and used appropriately, it can be hugely beneficial.
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Mm-hmm.
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that's a whole topic.
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I mean, I really like-- It used to be called NotebookLM, now it's called Gemini Notebook,
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Mm.
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of my favorite tools for learning, especially for older students.
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Are, are you familiar with Gemini
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I'm, I'm quite familiar.
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I haven't used it a lot myself, but I, I, what I've been doing with it is putting, when I find research articles that I know I wanna reference back to, I'm putting them in there so that I can create the podcasts, uh, to summarize, like, a bunch of them together
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So for active learning, which I know you're into the science
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Угу, угу.
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and studying, for active learning, it can be really great for students, for all students, especially those who learn differently, because you can upload up to 50 documents like PDFs that, that have good content, right?
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So, you know,
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उहम्।
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in, junk out, but if
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उहम्।
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if you're-- it, it only refers to, the AI chatbot only refers to the information that you've uploaded.
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So if you're studying for a certain course and you want it presented in different ways, you can interact with the chatbot and ask questions, or you can have it create a podcast or help you with a visual learning tool, a mind map, or, you know, the, uh, flashcards.
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And so while it's just one tool, it is-- it's a good way to not just reread your notes, but to actively engage in learning.
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So I, I really like that, and I've had a lot of students, you know, I have Tech for College Success course, I have a number of courses, and I've had a, a, a number of students reach, you know, reply, send me an email out of the blue saying that that has saved them.
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That one tool has really made a huge difference in their
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Mm-hmm.
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Well, and this is a testament to, for all the downsides of AI, I mean, every generation there's a downside of the tech that becomes available.
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But the upside of it is that if you, if you understand the science of learning and the science of executive function as a kiddo or as a coach or educator, then you can learn to use them as intentional meta-strategic tools, so metacognitive and meta-strategic, and they truly can further your learning.
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But the, the, the downside though is they're so easy to use them poorly that when you're tired or exhausted or just have overloaded, let's say, have less space in your working memory, you may be more likely to use them poorly.
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So they're a big gift and a big, uh, challenge.
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I totally agree.
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And, but one problem that's happening is that, um, of professors and educators are taking away tech, right?
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So, uh, there's a lot of returning to blue books, paper, pencil, and there is a lot of benefit to that,
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Mm-hmm.
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I mean, I, you know, we could have huge discussions about pros and cons in all of this.
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But I worry about the kids with dyslexia and dysgraphia, where this has really opened up, know, possibilities that never existed before.
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And so I find that I have to really help them become strong self-advocates because they're, you know, everyone's doing, you know, no phones in schools, which I think is a good thing.
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But I think that there need to be exceptions, and there are certain students that really need some of these tech tools to,
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Mm-hmm.
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to, to succeed
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Mm-hmm.
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You know, side note, I, uh, follow all these research scientists on LinkedIn, and Carl Hendrick is one, and he just-- I haven't read it deeply yet, but he just posted a study about cell phones in schools, and that actually, I think this was last school year maybe, I forget.
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But taking them away did not necessarily improve student learning.
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Uh, the other side of that, though, I have a local school here in the Bay Area that's just gone, um, no cell phones, and the, the students put up a hissy fit when it was becoming that.
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Now they all love it.
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So I-- whether it improves learning by taking away distractions, who knows?
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But I do think it's improving wellbeing
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Right, and social interactions.
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I mean, there, it, there's more than academics,
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Yeah
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there's a lot to success.
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Yeah
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and, and I think that we've all seen the detriment of too much tech,
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Mhm.
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But,
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Mhm.
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I always try to really talk about using tech intentionally.
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It, it, like not all screen time is equal,
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Right
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you know.
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And so with intention and integrity
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Mm-hmm.
00:15:37.187 --> 00:15:37.551
great.
00:15:38.147 --> 00:15:46.106
And, you know, actually let me run by something that I've heard myself saying by you, and feel free to critique it if you think it's wrong or say you like it if you do.
00:15:47.917 --> 00:16:02.037
But I often say to coaches to talk to students about if you're noticing you're using tech in a certain kind of way-- Let's just talk about retrieval practice and studying just as an example to make it more concrete.
00:16:02.037 --> 00:16:20.576
So if you're doing a bunch of digital flashcards or even using Gemini Notebook, I didn't know about that new name, to quiz you on some articles that you have, uh, maybe pay attention to giving yourself equal and opposite time in an analog way.
00:16:21.236 --> 00:16:24.866
So maybe, you know, I, I have something called the study senses.
00:16:24.866 --> 00:16:46.886
I'm not going to talk us through them right now, but the study senses encourage you to be outside of tech and in your body and brain, and so maybe choose some study senses that you can also use to, uh, practice retrieval or to encode the things that you just found out from Notebook-- or from Gemini Notebook that you don't know very well to encode those in a new way rather than staying inside the screen.
00:16:47.256 --> 00:16:48.506
And what would you say to that?
00:16:48.745 --> 00:16:49.893
I love that idea.
00:16:50.169 --> 00:16:52.017
I mean, I learn best by writing, by
00:16:52.157 --> 00:16:53.547
Mm-hmm.
00:16:53.657 --> 00:16:56.096
Mm-hmm.
00:16:56.106 --> 00:16:56.447
Mm-hmm.
00:16:57.238 --> 00:16:58.841
and Google Drive and all that,
00:16:59.125 --> 00:16:59.554
Mm-hmm.
00:16:59.754 --> 00:17:01.057
notes by hand,
00:17:01.184 --> 00:17:01.514
Right
00:17:01.682 --> 00:17:02.947
when I'm sitting at my computer.
00:17:03.207 --> 00:17:07.977
But then what I do is I'll scan my notes and I put them up into Google Drive so that I can access them,
00:17:08.076 --> 00:17:11.096
So that you can access them and have them searched inside.
00:17:11.247 --> 00:17:25.116
Um, I can also imagine a vice versa where let's just say you do load a bunch of articles or texts into Gemini Notebook, and you do listen to a podcast to encode it in one way, and then you practice retrieval about what you just heard with one of their quizzes.
00:17:25.616 --> 00:17:31.136
Then you might sit down with a whiteboard and do a whiteboard dump just to see how much did I remember.
00:17:31.446 --> 00:17:40.176
Um, I actually wonder if you did that, you can't load your whiteboard in to have it double-check if you missed any main ideas, can you?
00:17:40.176 --> 00:17:42.086
I mean, that would be super cool if you could.
00:17:42.236 --> 00:17:43.622
a screenshot or
00:17:43.936 --> 00:17:44.436
Yeah.
00:17:44.679 --> 00:17:44.875
and
00:17:44.967 --> 00:17:45.317
Yeah
00:17:45.538 --> 00:17:46.259
attach that.
00:17:46.259 --> 00:17:51.194
You can upload the photo, and it understands, qu- in quotes, understands the photo, and you can say,
00:17:51.211 --> 00:17:51.830
Right.
00:17:52.310 --> 00:17:53.671
Yeah, so you could do that.
00:17:53.820 --> 00:17:54.601
Oh, beautiful
00:17:55.230 --> 00:17:58.228
Yeah, I mean, I really love merging all of this together
00:17:58.398 --> 00:17:58.838
Mm-hmm
00:17:58.853 --> 00:18:01.140
you know, as many different ways as we can learn.
00:18:01.353 --> 00:18:01.833
Угу,
00:18:01.953 --> 00:18:03.101
expert at this more than me,
00:18:03.133 --> 00:18:03.573
угу.
00:18:03.717 --> 00:18:04.195
one of my...
00:18:04.229 --> 00:18:05.376
I have four kids, and they're
00:18:05.573 --> 00:18:05.813
Ага
00:18:05.914 --> 00:18:08.334
and flown, but one of them, um, has ADHD,
00:18:08.689 --> 00:18:08.949
Угу
00:18:08.989 --> 00:18:12.928
remember her study while she was jumping on the trampoline.
00:18:12.939 --> 00:18:13.223
You know, and
00:18:13.404 --> 00:18:13.724
Aha.
00:18:13.750 --> 00:18:16.960
I was crazy, and she also had to study with music in the background.
00:18:17.101 --> 00:18:17.371
Ja
00:18:17.428 --> 00:18:23.577
and it's all in a, and two of my other kids needed absolute silence, no distractions, you know?
00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:25.413
And so everybody is different.
00:18:25.535 --> 00:18:25.744
Mm-hmm.
00:18:26.484 --> 00:18:28.521
My husband always has classical music going.
00:18:28.522 --> 00:18:29.820
I need silence, you know?
00:18:30.028 --> 00:18:30.489
Yeah
00:18:30.743 --> 00:18:32.809
out how your brain works
00:18:32.959 --> 00:18:33.568
Mm-hmm.
00:18:33.594 --> 00:18:34.409
the first step
00:18:35.019 --> 00:18:42.108
You know, I'm working on some new copy for my website right now, uh, given now that I know sort of what the lab has become in the last few years.
00:18:42.118 --> 00:18:54.128
In some ways, you and I, our communities have been growing at the same, um, for about the same amount of time, and I, I now know, oh, this is what's so magical about the lab and about my courses and the community.
00:18:54.429 --> 00:18:57.989
And so as I'm doing that, I'm starting to name the...
00:18:58.159 --> 00:19:00.588
There are two facts that are equal and opposite.
00:19:00.929 --> 00:19:06.189
One of them is all brains learn the same, and then another is all brains are different.
00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:07.227
Hmm.
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:08.599
Interesting.
00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:09.442
Yeah, yeah
00:19:09.517 --> 00:19:09.557
Yeah.
00:19:09.807 --> 00:19:32.757
And it's like, okay, so especially with neurodivergence, as you just brought up, um, yes, it's true that certain things in the research do allow people to learn better, but if you have challenges in working memory or challenges in this or that or the other, attention, then you're gonna have to tweak those things to be able to put the science of learning into practice in a way that's gonna work for your unique brain.
00:19:33.326 --> 00:19:40.576
And I think it's an irony, but also it's a gift to remember, uh, both of those sides.
00:19:40.776 --> 00:19:46.419
I mean, that I have the same, um, I mean, I also ta- talk about universal design for learning,
00:19:46.636 --> 00:19:46.646
Mm-hmm.
00:19:46.659 --> 00:19:51.980
so that's, you know, all of the features that are built into everyday tech that's good for everybody, right?
00:19:52.202 --> 00:19:58.512
And, uh, but then I also talk about the importance of individualizing the, uh, the assistive technology.
00:19:58.513 --> 00:20:03.720
So one is, you know, something's great for everybody, but then you also, uh, it, it sort of the opposite thing also.
00:20:03.999 --> 00:20:04.358
Mm-hmm.
00:20:04.574 --> 00:20:08.028
you know, I try to take into account both at the same time.
00:20:08.118 --> 00:20:20.788
Well, and I think then there's a third side to that, which is what is good for the most marginalized learner or the higher need learner is actually good for everyone.
00:20:20.788 --> 00:20:28.628
Like any student, the most neurotypical student could benefit from being in a hurry and needing to make dinner, but also needing to get an article read.
00:20:28.949 --> 00:20:36.078
And so putting on that Chrome thing while they're making dinner, and I did see you can have it be two times the speed or whatever.
00:20:36.078 --> 00:20:38.588
Like my brain actually, I don't like reading.
00:20:38.608 --> 00:20:50.459
I mean, I love reading, but because of what this modern technology and life has done to my attention, my brain lopes faster than my eyes can take in the information.
00:20:50.699 --> 00:21:11.019
And so I'm actually, as we're talking about this, I've never liked audiobooks for a different reason, but I'm like,"Oh, in these shorter little bursts, I could really imagine using this technology." So if everybody knew about it and was practiced making choices based on what they needed, it doesn't matter necessarily if you're neurodivergent or not.
00:21:11.068 --> 00:21:14.219
You still can use it meta strategically.
00:21:14.259 --> 00:21:15.128
That's my new word.
00:21:15.469 --> 00:21:18.858
I just learned it yesterday from Zaretta Hammond, so I'm gonna use it.
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.740
Well, a- an- another thought comes to mind.
00:21:21.741 --> 00:21:31.041
You asked if there was any other feature that's sort of new in the last year or so, um, and it's live captions has become so much better.
00:21:31.041 --> 00:21:36.227
And so it used to be that people would know about captions, watching captions on YouTube, right?
00:21:36.227 --> 00:21:37.691
That's been around for a long time.
00:21:38.083 --> 00:21:50.232
But now there are a lot of students with auditory processing problems or ADHD or, you know, hearing disabilities that, um, really benefit from seeing words as they hear them.
00:21:50.248 --> 00:21:52.227
I mean, there are a whole bunch of cases for that.
00:21:52.508 --> 00:22:12.101
And now it's built in on every phone, in, in, in the Chrome browser, um, where you can just enable it, and even if you're not watching a video but you're just in a conversation or in a classroom, if you're somebody that would do best seeing the words as they're said, that's a free feature on all devices now.
00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:13.229
Wow
00:22:13.411 --> 00:22:15.691
that's another thing.
00:22:15.692 --> 00:22:21.172
I mean, I have a niece who has auditory processing challenges, and this would've been huge for her when she was
00:22:21.333 --> 00:22:21.472
Угу
00:22:21.517 --> 00:22:24.419
'cause it really, she really struggled in the classroom
00:22:25.196 --> 00:22:27.326
So during a lecture, how would you do that?
00:22:27.616 --> 00:22:27.987
Can you?
00:22:28.326 --> 00:22:30.257
Like, if, if it's a live lecture, how?
00:22:30.848 --> 00:22:34.277
Well, if, if, like if you have an iPhone, you just go to settings.
00:22:34.558 --> 00:22:35.028
Mm-hmm.
00:22:35.076 --> 00:22:37.102
I mean, I could wa- and then accessibility,
00:22:37.237 --> 00:22:37.737
Mm-hmm.
00:22:37.781 --> 00:22:38.973
think it's under hearing.
00:22:39.020 --> 00:22:39.406
I think.
00:22:39.406 --> 00:22:39.723
I'd have
00:22:39.747 --> 00:22:40.326
Oh, okay
00:22:40.422 --> 00:22:43.008
And then you just enable live captioning, and
00:22:43.093 --> 00:22:45.262
whatever you're listening to in that moment.
00:22:46.722 --> 00:22:47.053
Okay,
00:22:47.117 --> 00:22:47.455
It
00:22:47.522 --> 00:22:48.903
go play with that, peoples.
00:22:49.483 --> 00:22:50.833
and then it's on Android.
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:52.714
It's, you know, it's in the Chrome browser.
00:22:52.714 --> 00:22:54.945
It's on, it's in PowerPoint.
00:22:54.951 --> 00:22:56.282
It's on Google Slides.
00:22:56.307 --> 00:23:03.857
I mean, live captioning, you know, if, if you're at a, if your professor or teacher is using, or if you're, if you're a tutor,
00:23:04.328 --> 00:23:04.689
उहं।
00:23:05.086 --> 00:23:17.849
If your student would learn better, whether you're on Zoom or in person, I always ask if people want captioning or I just show people how to use it, and some people have never really tried it before and it just helps them pay attention better.
00:23:17.932 --> 00:23:18.262
Ja
00:23:18.417 --> 00:23:22.314
I know when I'm talking and I, I, you know, I lot on Zoom.
00:23:22.315 --> 00:23:23.977
I do one-to-one consultations.
00:23:23.980 --> 00:23:24.038
I
00:23:24.073 --> 00:23:24.272
உம்
00:23:24.321 --> 00:23:25.339
Tech Life Inner Circle.
00:23:25.366 --> 00:23:30.186
I don't like seeing captioning as I'm talking because I find it very distracting.
00:23:30.201 --> 00:23:30.280
Uhum.
00:23:30.280 --> 00:23:30.560
Uhum.
00:23:31.009 --> 00:23:31.394
You know?
00:23:31.394 --> 00:23:36.114
So it's nice if it's in, if it's in a person's power to turn it on or
00:23:36.141 --> 00:23:39.740
To turn it on without the other person being distracted by it.
00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:40.510
Fabulous.
00:23:40.941 --> 00:23:42.320
Three hot tips, you all.
00:23:43.131 --> 00:23:45.090
Listen to the Academic Coaching Podcast.
00:23:45.530 --> 00:24:02.721
Okay, so it's clear, Joan, that you are a wealth of information about this, and I just wanted to name--'cause you have the community that's drop-in, but you also have these courses, and I do know that a number of members of the Anti-Boring Learning Lab really appreciated your Tech for College Students course.
00:24:02.750 --> 00:24:07.421
And so can you just name-- We'll do a mini commercial here in the middle before we move on to some other topics.
00:24:07.421 --> 00:24:13.770
Can you just name the sorts of things that our listeners might really appreciate diving into in your world?
00:24:13.964 --> 00:24:21.271
Yeah, and, and right now most of the things I offer live, I only have one course now that's available, um, you know,
00:24:21.654 --> 00:24:22.954
Asynchronously, yeah
00:24:23.080 --> 00:24:25.733
asynchronously, and that's a Tech for College Success.
00:24:25.878 --> 00:24:26.288
Okay
00:24:26.426 --> 00:24:33.549
really for tutors, and coaches, and parents, and, you know, the providers of service, not really the students.
00:24:33.919 --> 00:24:34.318
Mm-hmm.
00:24:34.384 --> 00:24:38.858
so much information on all the different ways to take notes, and learning, and organization, and
00:24:39.105 --> 00:24:39.464
Yeah
00:24:39.601 --> 00:24:41.356
I work with a student, I go much slower.
00:24:41.651 --> 00:24:43.492
This is showing people what's possible.
00:24:43.934 --> 00:24:48.520
Um, and then through the years, several times a year I typically offer a Google course.
00:24:48.554 --> 00:24:56.994
Most recently it was called Google Set Go, and so that was, um, the last couple of times I offered that it was for, um, high school and college students to help
00:24:57.164 --> 00:24:57.545
Mhm
00:24:57.840 --> 00:25:01.459
get digitally organized, and efficient time management, productivity, all,
00:25:01.676 --> 00:25:01.686
Mm-hmm.
00:25:01.798 --> 00:25:04.395
that just with some of the free Google tools.
00:25:04.780 --> 00:25:05.111
Yeah
00:25:06.011 --> 00:25:22.272
I think, um, and then I've als- and then Tech Possibility Academy, and that was for anybody who just needed a course overview of what I think are all of the best tools, like just to be more tech savvy, to help anybody or yourself.
00:25:22.565 --> 00:25:22.805
हम्म।
00:25:22.813 --> 00:25:31.106
over, I'm always looking for the lowest hanging fruit that's easiest to implement, not expensive, available on everyday devices.
00:25:31.106 --> 00:25:33.777
I mean, we're not talking about anything, you know, super expensive.
00:25:33.949 --> 00:25:37.807
As long as you have a current, phone, tablet, or computer.
00:25:37.848 --> 00:25:38.061
You know,
00:25:38.227 --> 00:25:38.586
Ehm, mhm.
00:25:38.923 --> 00:25:39.462
devices.
00:25:39.702 --> 00:25:44.278
A lot of people don't talk about these things because, like, I'm not selling them, right?
00:25:44.522 --> 00:25:45.002
Right
00:25:45.147 --> 00:25:49.403
are all these cool features with Microsoft, and Google, and Apple, but how do you learn about them?
00:25:49.405 --> 00:25:49.734
I mean, it's
00:25:49.888 --> 00:25:50.229
हम्म
00:25:50.262 --> 00:25:54.076
just sort of roll them out, and you just get shocked when they're there, and how do you use them, and
00:25:54.101 --> 00:25:54.391
Right.
00:25:54.431 --> 00:25:56.171
And you blunder through figuring...
00:25:56.611 --> 00:25:58.020
I, like, I know I'm not using...
00:25:58.020 --> 00:26:04.320
I just got a new Apple Watch and I've never had one before, and I'm just like,"Oh my God, I know I'm not using it well.
00:26:04.330 --> 00:26:06.721
I really do need someone to teach me."
00:26:06.948 --> 00:26:09.708
I had a tech talk about,'cause I have an Apple Watch
00:26:09.772 --> 00:26:10.353
Yeah
00:26:10.525 --> 00:26:13.460
the ways that I, you know, five tips of how I use mine every
00:26:13.702 --> 00:26:14.262
Mhm
00:26:14.636 --> 00:26:18.282
Um,'cause I- I have a website, theymaynotknow.com.
00:26:18.284 --> 00:26:27.622
I mean, back in the day before COVID, I'd every, I did a free webinar every month about just cool stuff, and I just wanted to share it, and I, I would get, like, 500 people at these
00:26:27.848 --> 00:26:28.409
उहम्म
00:26:28.471 --> 00:26:28.971
webinars.
00:26:29.453 --> 00:26:34.111
But then now it's hard to even get people at a webinar anymore, and I don't do quite
00:26:34.174 --> 00:26:34.194
Two
00:26:34.242 --> 00:26:37.119
much for free anymore because of course this is my business.
00:26:37.121 --> 00:26:37.384
So
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:38.000
Right
00:26:38.348 --> 00:26:41.523
anyone can come, um, once for free, but then there is
00:26:42.088 --> 00:26:42.209
Ja.
00:26:42.506 --> 00:26:45.351
It's 140-something for, um, three months.
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:45.741
So it's,
00:26:45.777 --> 00:26:46.096
Uhum.
00:26:46.174 --> 00:26:47.300
not that expensive,
00:26:47.497 --> 00:26:47.977
Uhum.
00:26:48.423 --> 00:26:50.974
it's extremely valuable for people who are there.
00:26:50.974 --> 00:26:51.513
They love it.
00:26:51.515 --> 00:26:53.155
They're like,"Oh, I didn't know," you know?
00:26:53.156 --> 00:26:54.289
"I didn't know this was possible.
00:26:54.296 --> 00:26:55.750
How do you even know to ask?" You
00:26:56.012 --> 00:26:56.363
Yeah.
00:26:56.893 --> 00:27:01.323
Well, and I know that my people who attended your college course really appreciated it.
00:27:01.343 --> 00:27:09.823
And I will say that we have a new person in the lab, and I, I, I'm gonna use this as an example, but I've seen this type of person before.
00:27:09.863 --> 00:27:13.583
Every once in a while there's someone who just doesn't understand Google Drive.
00:27:14.292 --> 00:27:19.403
And will you say from what you've seen just how, like are, are...
00:27:19.452 --> 00:27:24.272
Is it true that most students in most schools are using Google to organize?
00:27:24.413 --> 00:27:24.905
I mean, once
00:27:24.962 --> 00:27:25.413
Mm-hmm.
00:27:25.570 --> 00:27:28.018
a private school that is an Apple school or a
00:27:28.182 --> 00:27:29.032
Uhum
00:27:29.758 --> 00:27:33.788
And I don't know the percentages, but I'd say 95% of the people that I know.
00:27:33.987 --> 00:27:45.984
The problem is that, um, so you learn Google in school, and some schools are better than others at helping the kids learn how to use folders and organize them, and where the shared documents show up, and how to move them into your My Drive.
00:27:45.984 --> 00:27:50.807
And they use Google Classroom and Google Calendar and a lot of these things.
00:27:50.821 --> 00:27:53.734
Although most schools are still using paper calendars and,
00:27:53.876 --> 00:27:54.336
Mm-hmm.
00:27:54.385 --> 00:27:55.434
mean, I, I don't know.
00:27:55.439 --> 00:28:01.416
But, um, but then you go into college, and there are a lot of colleges that are Microsoft, not Google.
00:28:01.478 --> 00:28:03.240
Maybe that's more 50/50.
00:28:03.252 --> 00:28:04.821
And then you get in the working world,
00:28:05.108 --> 00:28:05.808
Aha.
00:28:06.048 --> 00:28:07.472
more Microsoft,
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:08.368
Interesting
00:28:08.596 --> 00:28:17.169
And so I really think that a basic skill should be knowing how to use Apple, Google, and Microsoft,
00:28:17.277 --> 00:28:17.737
Mm.
00:28:18.574 --> 00:28:22.424
text-to-speech, folders and documents.
00:28:22.424 --> 00:28:24.804
Like, it's, it's just a litera- And now with AI,
00:28:25.196 --> 00:28:25.567
Mm-hmm.
00:28:25.752 --> 00:28:29.977
people need to have a basic AI literacy because you can't avoid it,
00:28:30.492 --> 00:28:30.813
Угу
00:28:30.990 --> 00:28:31.857
you like it or not.
00:28:32.957 --> 00:28:35.506
And, you know, privacy, security.
00:28:35.586 --> 00:28:37.854
You know, there's a lot, there's a lot to know
00:28:38.221 --> 00:28:39.740
Yeah, there is a lot to know.
00:28:40.020 --> 00:28:52.141
And so let this be a invitation to those of you listening, if you are confused, especially about the Google environment, since that is like, that's the first one to learn more about.
00:28:52.181 --> 00:29:03.661
And then maybe as clients come in, and if you notice they are in a different environment, then that's your opportunity to learn about that environment, and maybe then pop into Joan's community.
00:29:03.661 --> 00:29:13.641
Like, you take the course community when you're like,"Oh, whoa, this semester I'm really gonna need some support in supporting my students in blah, blah, blah environment."
00:29:13.739 --> 00:29:17.827
of times when I, when I do, I call it collaborative tech brainstorming,'cause I
00:29:17.884 --> 00:29:18.424
उहम्म
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:24.335
do official I used to charge thousands of dollars and do a big formal evaluation for assistive technology or
00:29:24.628 --> 00:29:25.048
उहं।
00:29:25.268 --> 00:29:26.691
'cause I'm really a speech pathologist
00:29:26.848 --> 00:29:27.009
उहं।
00:29:27.249 --> 00:29:28.570
got into technology.
00:29:28.969 --> 00:29:31.085
But do that anymore.
00:29:31.104 --> 00:29:38.625
I liked, I, I really tried to figure out what's the least amount I can charge have the biggest impact in the least amount of time,
00:29:38.732 --> 00:29:39.093
Yeah
00:29:39.224 --> 00:29:39.673
visits.
00:29:39.674 --> 00:29:42.240
That, the, my private sessions have a minimum of two
00:29:42.325 --> 00:29:42.815
Oh, great.
00:29:42.884 --> 00:29:43.674
That's good to know
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:47.622
s- so that's very, y- you know, most people can afford two visits.
00:29:47.654 --> 00:29:48.678
You know, it's not thousands of
00:29:49.133 --> 00:29:49.692
Yeah
00:29:49.817 --> 00:30:04.957
and so then what I try to do is, is figure out where people are now, and what are, like, what's just one or two changes that they can make to help reach their goal or get more organized or productive or improve reading or writing or whatever it is.
00:30:05.278 --> 00:30:08.647
But often I end up having a few extra sessions with the parents
00:30:09.037 --> 00:30:09.366
Yeah.
00:30:09.484 --> 00:30:10.423
tutors or the
00:30:10.866 --> 00:30:11.146
Yeah
00:30:11.538 --> 00:30:19.133
functioning coaches because they realize really need to get more into this world of technology because their students are expected to know a lot of this,
00:30:19.432 --> 00:30:20.173
उहम्।
00:30:20.434 --> 00:30:22.905
and they feel like they don't know
00:30:23.373 --> 00:30:23.633
Mm-hmm.
00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:39.428
So a lot of times I'll invite um, tutor to join the student, and we'll, we'll do it, figure it out together,'cause I don't wanna keep any of the students as, you know, I, I, I just, I, I do an average of, I would say, three to six sessions, and that's it.
00:30:39.628 --> 00:30:39.959
Yeah.
00:30:39.974 --> 00:30:40.211
You know,
00:30:40.368 --> 00:30:40.929
Well, and,
00:30:41.394 --> 00:30:42.086
the tech
00:30:42.239 --> 00:30:55.429
and what occurs to me, uh, I mean, even before you just said what you said, I was like,"Oh, another way to use you would be for coaches to actually..." Um, you know, we, I, in my Rock Your Biz program, we talk about packages.
00:30:55.939 --> 00:31:06.659
So one package you could offer is you could choose to pay Joan for a one-on-one session and then just build the cost of that into your package.
00:31:06.669 --> 00:31:16.659
But then when a tech need comes up, uh, then you could ha- probably the coach, the student, and you, and it can be recorded so the parents could watch it later, potentially.
00:31:16.659 --> 00:31:22.028
We kind of wanna keep parents away as much as possible from our relationships with the students.
00:31:22.038 --> 00:31:23.989
But d- is that something you'd be open to?
00:31:24.491 --> 00:31:25.913
Oh, uh, I do that with people.
00:31:26.019 --> 00:31:26.388
You do.
00:31:26.726 --> 00:31:27.539
the scenes
00:31:27.648 --> 00:31:28.159
That's great
00:31:28.285 --> 00:31:30.919
a number of schools and private clinicians
00:31:31.053 --> 00:31:31.942
Yeah, that's great
00:31:32.150 --> 00:31:36.140
because they just feel like they need- don't wanna be a tech expert.
00:31:36.159 --> 00:31:36.944
Like, they, they don't have
00:31:37.012 --> 00:31:37.333
Right.
00:31:37.461 --> 00:31:37.957
they don't have the
00:31:38.053 --> 00:31:38.423
Right.
00:31:38.556 --> 00:31:39.935
That's not in their lane,
00:31:40.192 --> 00:31:40.593
Right
00:31:40.808 --> 00:31:43.710
bad leaving tech out of the treatment totally.
00:31:43.710 --> 00:31:43.835
So
00:31:43.884 --> 00:31:44.375
Yes
00:31:44.413 --> 00:31:47.932
it started, can continue, um,
00:31:48.204 --> 00:31:48.474
Ja
00:31:48.490 --> 00:31:49.089
those tools.
00:31:49.105 --> 00:31:53.272
And sometimes the student's with us and sometimes n- not with us.
00:31:53.297 --> 00:32:03.582
And, and in the Tech Life inner circle, we brainstorm s- I have a number of tutors or therapists that come and they give me a scenario,
00:32:03.853 --> 00:32:04.262
Yeah.
00:32:04.269 --> 00:32:05.121
brainstorm
00:32:05.512 --> 00:32:06.143
What to do?
00:32:06.201 --> 00:32:07.528
to do with the student
00:32:08.192 --> 00:32:11.942
So, okay, so here's an important question for the educators listening.
00:32:12.373 --> 00:32:24.153
Uh, because yeah, some people don't wanna be tech experts, and I feel kind of strongly, stubbornly, that you are responsible for what I like to say the least you need to know about certain tech.
00:32:24.153 --> 00:32:38.623
So where do you think that line is between what clinicians or educators themselves ought to know about tech for students versus what you don't need to know, and you can rely on an expert like you?
00:32:39.144 --> 00:32:43.605
Yeah, so I don't think, I don't think tutors need to know all the choices out there.
00:32:43.607 --> 00:32:47.345
Of all the, you know, there's, um, Genio Notes for taking notes.
00:32:47.347 --> 00:32:54.434
Like, there are a lot of tools out there to help with functioning, note-taking, organization.
00:32:54.490 --> 00:33:05.730
I think that the to know, like the least that you need to know, is really speech-to-text and text-to-speech on all devices, the good and bad of AI.
00:33:06.249 --> 00:33:06.798
Mm.
00:33:07.126 --> 00:33:09.826
You know, how, because kids are using it.
00:33:09.826 --> 00:33:17.432
I mean, it, it's in the schools, and so, you know, and yeah, the good and the bad of AI and how it can shortcut learning.
00:33:17.646 --> 00:33:28.375
Because kids need to know, um, why it's not good to have, know, ChatGPT or Gemini or Claude write the essay for them.
00:33:28.459 --> 00:33:28.640
I mean,
00:33:28.732 --> 00:33:29.012
Uhum.
00:33:29.522 --> 00:33:32.446
There, there are certain words that show up all the time.
00:33:32.448 --> 00:33:33.036
There's like
00:33:33.229 --> 00:33:33.628
I know.
00:33:33.808 --> 00:33:37.628
Even in my blog writing, which I do lean on AI for blogs.
00:33:37.659 --> 00:33:48.298
So I will say, in my defense, I spend about five hours on each blog entry, which is actually longer than probably I would've spent writing by myself because I'm so rigorously in conversation with AI.
00:33:49.088 --> 00:33:52.568
But I just, it annoys me so much, these little tell, tells...
00:33:52.598 --> 00:33:54.919
Well, like, what's one of them that pops out in your mind?
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:56.758
Oh, the M dash, you know,
00:33:56.828 --> 00:33:57.499
Yeah, right.
00:33:57.605 --> 00:34:03.432
dash, the, um, certain, um, like it's uses the word exactly.
00:34:03.442 --> 00:34:04.028
Like there's just
00:34:04.199 --> 00:34:04.439
Mm-hmm.
00:34:04.699 --> 00:34:07.189
Quietly, quietly, gently.
00:34:07.239 --> 00:34:07.838
I get that a lot
00:34:08.246 --> 00:34:08.677
Yeah.
00:34:08.764 --> 00:34:09.083
Yeah.
00:34:09.246 --> 00:34:13.947
And so, and I use AI all the time too, and I use it, and I think of it as a thinking partner.
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:14.840
उहम्।
00:34:14.865 --> 00:34:22.480
I, I try to always use my brain first and sort of write, you know, write what I wanna write, and then I'll use it as a thinking partner.
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:24.028
Do I have any false assumptions?
00:34:24.028 --> 00:34:25.204
What am I missing?
00:34:25.206 --> 00:34:27.188
You know, and, and go back and forth a little bit.
00:34:27.528 --> 00:34:44.911
Um, I think it- it's a-- So for professionals and, a- and I also use it to create engaging content and create images for maybe students that aren't that engaged with learning and help bring out, you know, bring things alive to them or, or help them study with...
00:34:45.090 --> 00:34:48.264
You know, they can create memorable images, you know, to
00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:48.311
Mm-hmm.
00:34:48.547 --> 00:34:49.286
with the learning.
00:34:49.744 --> 00:34:55.860
But I think with the younger ones, there's more danger because they haven't developed certain skills, and they don't know...
00:34:56.311 --> 00:34:59.534
Like, I can assess what I like and what I don't like and how it's gonna help me.
00:34:59.534 --> 00:35:00.576
It's like my assistant.
00:35:00.583 --> 00:35:00.847
But,
00:35:00.958 --> 00:35:01.498
Mm-hmm.
00:35:01.621 --> 00:35:02.710
students don't know.
00:35:02.967 --> 00:35:05.427
They don't have the judgment yet and the skills.
00:35:05.677 --> 00:35:06.027
Mm-hmm.
00:35:06.166 --> 00:35:17.878
I, I think that, um, they really should not be interacting directly with AI at a young age at all, unless it is a specific task generated by the educator
00:35:17.907 --> 00:35:18.717
Mm.
00:35:19.347 --> 00:35:23.487
What, what do you think that age, you're saying at a young age, but let's be specific.
00:35:23.507 --> 00:35:24.606
I mean, I know it's
00:35:24.710 --> 00:35:27.086
It, it all depends also on, I, I don't know.
00:35:27.088 --> 00:35:32.085
I mean, I think maybe, um, and middle school it's pretty risky.
00:35:32.086 --> 00:35:40.186
I think maybe by high school they, they should be using it because I think, you know, when they're out in the working world they're gonna be expected to be AI savvy.
00:35:40.445 --> 00:35:40.844
Угу
00:35:41.793 --> 00:35:43.902
So, uh, you know, I, I don't really know.
00:35:43.902 --> 00:35:45.963
It's all in how it's used too, because,
00:35:45.974 --> 00:35:46.465
Uhum
00:35:46.882 --> 00:35:54.925
you know, I mean, I've had, I've had some students that, um, uh, uh, tell me,"Well, I don't have to bother learning how to spell anymore.
00:35:54.925 --> 00:35:56.847
I just say it and the computer types it," right?
00:35:56.847 --> 00:36:00.001
And so they, you know, so, you...
00:36:00.041 --> 00:36:04.918
But it's good to be a good speller if you can, if you don't have a specific challenge.
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:08.436
I mean, you want to develop these s- these skills.
00:36:08.858 --> 00:36:09.298
Right
00:36:10.798 --> 00:36:11.228
I don't know.
00:36:11.228 --> 00:36:13.014
It, it, it's hard to answer that question.
00:36:13.014 --> 00:36:15.052
So it really depends on what the task is.
00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:29.938
But on the other hand, I have some students that I've helped who are in high school and college that still rely on their parents to read aloud to them because they have a reading disability, and they've never been taught how to have PDFs read aloud or how, you know
00:36:30.389 --> 00:36:30.719
Right.
00:36:30.958 --> 00:36:32.228
So being more independent.
00:36:32.228 --> 00:36:37.958
You, you can still have the read aloud, but you don't wanna be dependent on your parents specifically.
00:36:38.009 --> 00:36:38.539
Yeah.
00:36:39.456 --> 00:36:49.293
So it, it's, it's tricky, and then you want to, you know, if you can, and you put in all these scaffolds and supports, want people to become overly dependent on them.
00:36:49.293 --> 00:36:49.744
You want
00:36:49.983 --> 00:36:50.532
Right
00:36:51.130 --> 00:36:56.275
um, take away as much of this as you can because somebody doesn't always have a computer with
00:36:56.525 --> 00:36:57.264
Yeah
00:36:57.791 --> 00:36:59.192
it, it's, it's very tricky.
00:36:59.197 --> 00:36:59.722
So the more
00:36:59.789 --> 00:37:00.278
Yeah.
00:37:01.018 --> 00:37:01.298
Yeah.
00:37:01.938 --> 00:37:15.969
Yeah, and I, I feel like this is a good moment to- we've kind of made this point a little bit, but I know in our notes beforehand, you said you really wanted to talk about why knowing the latest apps are...
00:37:15.989 --> 00:37:24.509
It's, that's a good thing, and we've talked about tips and tricks already, but it's not as important as the process of understanding and assessing where a student's barriers are.
00:37:24.898 --> 00:37:34.708
Um, so can you talk just a little bit directly about the difference between knowing the tech and learning how to assess a student's needs?
00:37:36.585 --> 00:37:38.909
I mean, that's really where our skills come in, right?
00:37:39.112 --> 00:37:39.623
Mm-hmm.
00:37:39.655 --> 00:37:48.152
to, you know, if somebody's having trouble read- now not everybody's a reading specialist, so, you know, and, and not everybody has to be a specialist in every area.
00:37:48.161 --> 00:37:57.351
But, um, you know, for me as a speech-language pathologist, if somebody's having trouble communicating, I'm thinking, do they have trouble articulating the sounds?
00:37:57.353 --> 00:37:58.666
Is it word retrieval?
00:37:58.668 --> 00:38:00.126
Is it sentence formulation?
00:38:00.128 --> 00:38:01.769
Is it auditory comprehension?
00:38:01.771 --> 00:38:05.757
I mean, there are a lot of, a lot of parts that go into communication, right?
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:07.128
Executive functioning.
00:38:07.347 --> 00:38:11.050
Is it them imagining the task that they have to do?
00:38:11.052 --> 00:38:12.369
Is it getting started?
00:38:12.382 --> 00:38:15.556
Is it, um, sustaining attention during a task?
00:38:15.556 --> 00:38:18.967
Is it breaking up the project into a bunch of pieces?
00:38:18.967 --> 00:38:20.268
Is it finishing the task?
00:38:20.269 --> 00:38:22.856
I mean, there are all these different parts to these different things.
00:38:22.856 --> 00:38:26.565
Writing, is it n- having the background knowledge to what you wanna write?
00:38:26.579 --> 00:38:30.630
Is it the physical act of pen to paper or typing?
00:38:30.681 --> 00:38:31.668
Is it spelling?
00:38:31.668 --> 00:38:32.744
Is it syntax?
00:38:32.757 --> 00:38:35.130
Is it thought organization?
00:38:35.130 --> 00:38:36.806
I mean, do you see what I mean?
00:38:36.806 --> 00:38:38.798
Like, ev- everything has a lot of parts
00:38:38.992 --> 00:38:39.583
Yeah.
00:38:39.693 --> 00:38:40.213
Yeah, yeah
00:38:40.259 --> 00:38:50.871
skilled tutor or executive functioning coach or speech pathologist or occupational therapist to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of the individual student,
00:38:50.911 --> 00:38:51.371
Mm-hmm.
00:38:51.492 --> 00:38:54.340
then try to match the needs of the student.
00:38:54.351 --> 00:38:58.960
Like, while you're trying to improve the skill, which we want to improve the skills.
00:38:58.963 --> 00:39:03.076
I, I always sort of, you know, take my hands and, and show two pathways.
00:39:03.389 --> 00:39:03.688
Угу
00:39:03.710 --> 00:39:05.775
pathway is improving the skill.
00:39:05.804 --> 00:39:13.387
Drill and practice or doing whatever, playing games or, you know, I, I have fun listening to your podcast, you know, the improv game.
00:39:13.431 --> 00:39:17.650
I love these games that you've come up with, you know, to improve working memory
00:39:17.728 --> 00:39:18.259
Yeah, I know.
00:39:18.259 --> 00:39:18.268
Yeah
00:39:18.273 --> 00:39:23.650
improve skills and retrieval or whatever, sustained attention or flexibility or whatever.
00:39:23.905 --> 00:39:39.333
And then the other is as you're improving the skill, which we want to do, we wanna compensate for the skill or look for an assistive technology, which is really any, any mainstream technology or specialized that somebody needs, and without it you can't do the thing
00:39:39.925 --> 00:39:40.264
Угу
00:39:40.288 --> 00:39:40.521
Right?
00:39:40.532 --> 00:39:43.293
And so it's not so easy, you know?
00:39:43.293 --> 00:39:46.119
And it really, it, it requires a lot of insight.
00:39:46.485 --> 00:39:50.943
And so that's what I love to do is, is try to, uh, read reports.
00:39:50.945 --> 00:39:58.608
I read a Most of my referrals come from educational psychologists and neuropsychologists, which is nice'cause I read these reports and I can...
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:10.817
I don't do the testing and, but I c- And talking to parents and then talking to students because they, you know, they have to be willing to make a change, too, and what are their insights, and, and helping them feel in charge,
00:40:10.943 --> 00:40:11.242
Mm-hmm.
00:40:11.606 --> 00:40:12.416
and in control.
00:40:12.418 --> 00:40:14.586
Like, that's a huge thing, all the psychology there.
00:40:14.586 --> 00:40:23.827
So I like to, you know, offer as many choices to students as possible and let them be the owner of this cool tech stuff that
00:40:23.949 --> 00:40:24.228
Yeah
00:40:24.327 --> 00:40:26.215
will think is so cool.
00:40:26.246 --> 00:40:28.579
You know, it doesn't have to be for people with disabilities.
00:40:28.581 --> 00:40:30.320
It's just this cool thing that your computer
00:40:30.413 --> 00:40:31.503
know how to do this cool thing.
00:40:31.782 --> 00:40:32.273
Yeah.
00:40:32.273 --> 00:40:36.273
Yeah.
00:40:36.423 --> 00:40:36.967
anymore
00:40:37.333 --> 00:41:00.873
It reminds me of, I was just at this research ed conference, and I was sitting next to one of, um, my colleagues, and she whipped out her iPad, and whenever anybody is listening to a lecture and starting to do interactive note-taking, I, I always like, I'm looking out of the corner of my eye, like,'cause I've, I've actually never taken the time to really learn how to use the iPad for that, and, uh, it's just always fascinating.
00:41:00.873 --> 00:41:02.112
I think it's so cool.
00:41:05.262 --> 00:41:07.563
Well, Joan, this is so much fun.
00:41:07.583 --> 00:41:23.753
I wanna say to everybody that Joan and I are in, um, also conversation around how to embed some of each other's expertise in our, in our communities so that you all can go deeper, uh, with, uh, those of you who are joining Joan.
00:41:23.753 --> 00:41:28.833
I'm also hoping then that we'll talk a lot more about digital organization in my community.
00:41:29.152 --> 00:41:42.443
Um, certainly go take Joan's courses, but, um, we will look at what's the least coaches need to know about, um,'cause I'm an expert in paper organization, but not digital organization to come.
00:41:42.822 --> 00:41:45.152
So that will be fabulous.
00:41:45.472 --> 00:41:52.532
Is there anything that we didn't get to talk about that you think you wanna really make sure you say to the people out there?
00:41:53.498 --> 00:42:03.864
Um, just, I mean, don't be af- there are a lot of students that are really anti-AI, and I think that AI is all around us, so we have to learn how to use it meaningfully and with intent.
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:14.481
And for anybody out there who just wants a little bit of guidance, I do offer a free 15-minute phone call with anybody with no, no pressure, no strings attached, you know.
00:42:14.534 --> 00:42:19.601
Um, and you can access my calendar on my website in innovativespeech.com.
00:42:20.018 --> 00:42:34.152
Um, I also offer free professional consultations, 30-minute Zoom calls,'cause I- it's all about relationships and connection, and I, I really do enjoy meeting everybody, um, and, and trying to help move everybody forward.
00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:35.577
It's hard to keep up with tech.
00:42:35.590 --> 00:42:36.688
It's really hard.
00:42:36.699 --> 00:42:38.681
And so I don't even do therapy anymore.
00:42:38.735 --> 00:42:42.896
All I do is try to keep up with tech, and I always, whenever...
00:42:43.221 --> 00:42:51.507
I mean, I love getting new devices or, or seeing something new and exploring, like going to settings and clicking and accessibility and figuring out.
00:42:51.565 --> 00:42:54.088
I'm always thinking like,"Who could this help?" You know?
00:42:54.097 --> 00:42:58.019
Whereas a- most people that I know shun away from change, you know?
00:42:58.021 --> 00:42:58.449
Like you...
00:42:58.452 --> 00:42:58.793
Right
00:42:58.846 --> 00:42:59.518
it's hard.
00:42:59.518 --> 00:43:00.840
It's hard to keep up with this.
00:43:00.851 --> 00:43:03.059
For some reason, it's just something that I love.
00:43:04.456 --> 00:43:17.333
you know, I'm always on the lookout for what could help students with disabilities or everyday students or seniors or just and teachers and everyday people, you know, because it's, it's really hard.
00:43:17.637 --> 00:43:20.327
And so what I like to do is that matchmaking.
00:43:21.081 --> 00:43:27.615
even if it's just a 15-minute call, I'm really not a strong salesman, and I can just help you figure out your next step.
00:43:27.831 --> 00:43:28.170
Yeah.
00:43:28.411 --> 00:43:28.971
Beautiful.
00:43:29.221 --> 00:43:32.931
The next right action, that's one of our tenets in the Anti-Boring Learning Lab.
00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:36.820
The least they need to know and the next tiny action based on that.
00:43:38.481 --> 00:43:40.791
Well, such a pleasure to chat with you, Joan.
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:47.731
Will you also just tell the people out there listening that they should like and subscribe to the podcast?
00:43:48.148 --> 00:43:48.914
Absolutely.
00:43:48.914 --> 00:43:48.994
I
00:43:49.070 --> 00:43:49.141
that
00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:49.737
this is...
00:43:50.184 --> 00:43:51.947
Like and subscribe to the podcast.
00:43:51.958 --> 00:43:53.844
I think Gretchen is doing a great job.
00:43:53.844 --> 00:43:56.855
I've listened to most of them, and I'm always learning something new, and
00:43:56.902 --> 00:43:57.402
Mhm.
00:43:57.407 --> 00:43:59.942
honored to be here'cause I'm impressed with the people that you've had
00:43:59.958 --> 00:44:00.699
Yeah.
00:44:00.768 --> 00:44:01.309
Oh.
00:44:01.563 --> 00:44:02.556
to be among them
00:44:02.628 --> 00:44:04.838
Yes, you are indeed among them.
00:44:05.088 --> 00:44:09.498
And people, what I really need now is, um, Apple Podcast reviews.
00:44:09.498 --> 00:44:13.559
There still are very few, if, if any of those, and this is...
00:44:13.929 --> 00:44:17.148
I don't know what episode you are, but you're between 10 and 15.
00:44:17.148 --> 00:44:20.278
So it'd be nice to get a few reviews out there,'cause that helps get the word out.
00:44:20.668 --> 00:44:26.739
So thanks in advance everybody, and Joan, I'll, I'll see you later, I'm sure of it.
00:44:26.739 --> 00:44:29.032
Okay,