WEBVTT
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:02.080
Imagine a surgeon.
00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:13.039
Picture the hands, steady, trained, certain, the kind of hands you'd want holding the scalpel on the worst day of your life.
00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:24.719
Now imagine those same hands learning to rest on a frightened woman's shoulder and do nothing at all but transmit something the textbooks have never named.
00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:28.559
That's the woman I get to introduce you to today.
00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:29.199
Dr.
00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:47.280
Beth Dupree has been a breast cancer surgeon for more than 35 years, board certified in general surgery, an academic leader, the kind of physician who led a cancer center to national accreditation as a center of excellence and served as a hospital vice president.
00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:51.679
Every credential the system can hand a person, she earned.
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.679
And then she did the thing the system rarely forgives.
00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:02.320
She started listening to her patients in a way that changed what she believed medicine was for.
00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:09.200
Somewhere in the operating room, between the diagnosis and the margins and the survival curves, Dr.
00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:14.719
Beth came to a conviction she now says out loud on any stage that will have her.
00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.640
Healing is not something we do to a person.
00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:21.120
It is something we awaken within.
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:30.640
She wrote that conviction into two books, The Healing Consciousness and Shifting Gears, and built a foundation around it.
00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:36.400
She trained in Reiki, in integrative medicine, in psychedelic assisted therapy.
00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:49.920
She stepped back from full-time surgery, not to retreat from medicine, but to go further into it, into survivorship, into the nervous system, into non-narcotic ways of meeting pain.
00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:53.120
Full disclosure before we begin.
00:01:53.519 --> 00:02:01.599
She's the physician behind a pain patch that got me through a torn rib cartilage that I wouldn't want to wish on anyone.
00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:03.760
So I'm not a neutral party here.
00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:10.080
I'm a patient who has been helped, sitting down with the surgeon who learned to ask a different question.
00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:12.800
Looking forward to this conversation with Dr.
00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:14.479
Beth Dupree.
00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:18.000
I'm Dr.
00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:28.000
Naisha, and this is Tend the Terrain, where we stop drowning in information long enough to recognize we're starving for something much deeper.
00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:32.879
Health doesn't happen in isolation, it happens in a terrain.
00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:38.879
The biology, the rhythms, the relationships, the meaning you're still making.
00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:44.800
All of it shapes whether life expresses its vitality or quietly begins to unravel.
00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:52.800
And each week I sit down with scientists, physicians, farmers, artists, patients, and systems thinkers.
00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:56.400
People who talk about bodies, but also about land.
00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:03.439
About healing, but also about grief and belonging and what it means to become human again.
00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:08.800
This isn't a show for quick answers, it's a space for better questions.
00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:10.719
Pull up a chair.
00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:19.520
The amazing Dr.
00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:20.400
Beth Dupree.
00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:33.039
And before we were really rolling, we were trying to figure out it has been at least two decades that friends and colleagues have tried to bring our worlds together, and they finally collided last year when Dr.
00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:37.520
Beth was part of an event that I co-facilitated in Tucson.
00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:40.159
But now we've become even more.
00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:44.400
We've become friends and colleagues, and we look forward to see where this next path goes.
00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:48.719
This is why I'm excited to introduce the rest of you to her, though, because Dr.
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:52.319
Beth, as I mentioned in the introduction, trained as a surgeon.
00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:54.719
So, Doc, you trained as a surgeon.
00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:57.199
You you literally cut it all out.
00:03:57.280 --> 00:03:59.759
You know, you moved on to the next room.
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:04.240
That is obviously a very sacred and useful skill, and you were incredible at it.
00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:08.719
But somewhere along the way, you started to see that surgery just wasn't enough.
00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:10.800
So can you take us back to that moment?
00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:17.759
What were your what were you witnessing in your patients before, during, and after the operating room that standard of care couldn't hold?
00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:21.519
And when did it become impossible for you to unsee?
00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:35.519
It my path started early on, and it really was, I'm gonna say it was instigated by some of my closest friends who were doctors and had medical challenges.
00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:43.519
My girlfriend Chris, um, who in 1995, I believe, was diagnosed with ALS.
00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:50.800
My girlfriend Lauren, same time almost, was diagnosed with a very aggressive brain tumor.
00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:53.759
So I have a radiologist, an orthopedic surgeon.
00:04:54.000 --> 00:05:05.279
I had my head of pathology diagnosed with metastatic colon cancer, and a urologist who was a real dear, dear, dear man, diagnosed with metastatic melanoma.
00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.399
And so four colleagues in Western medicine, all around like the same time.
00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.399
And Western medicine failed all but one.
00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:22.160
Um, I I lost my girlfriend Chris to ALS, but she taught me so much along the way about healing.
00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:42.160
I lost uh Chris, uh, my pathologist to metastatic colon cancer and Bill to um melanoma, and then my girlfriend Lauren, who literally the first surgeon we saw, he was a dork because he basically gave her uh her her timeline of how long she would live.
00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:44.000
It was like 18-month prognosis.
00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:46.480
God willing, she's now 20-some years later.
00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.560
Um she had surgery, chemo radiation, but she introduced me to Reiki.
00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:52.639
I didn't know what Japanese energy healing was.
00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:53.600
I had no clue.
00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:56.720
I was, you know, they've nothing heals like cold steel surgeon.
00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:06.319
And that introduction to Reiki back in the early 90s um not only impacted me, it impacted my kids because they did the training, my husband.
00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:16.720
And through the years, a lot of the anesthesiologists and other doctors have thought like I was kind of on a different, I had left the reservation of Western medicine.
00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:18.000
Thank God I did.
00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:22.000
But those were the beginning seeds that got planted.
00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:42.480
But I will say that, you know, I I I went through my certification in integrative medicine, did more aspects of energy healing, but the biggest blow to um my Western medical career and where I just decided it was time to just tear down the walls and start again was during COVID.
00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:48.879
As I call it the shit show of COVID, because I was forced to take a vaccine that I knew better than to take.
00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:54.240
I was in a health system that dishonored me, that dishonored the women in our community.
00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:58.000
They weren't truthful about things that happened within the health system.
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:04.160
And in 2020, I did my first plant medicine journey with psilocybin.
00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:04.639
Wow.
00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:07.519
And once you see, you cannot unsee.
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:19.360
Once you recognize that the things that have been shown to you in your career are not as they should be, um, you can't go backwards.
00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:22.720
And I, you know, I continue to operate as a surgeon.
00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:27.519
I'm still a surgeon, I'm, but I'm mostly focused on survivorship, functional medicine.
00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:39.600
And I've said along the way, you know, I'm far more aligned with my osteopathic friends and my naturopathic friends than I are and with my allopathic friends because Western medicine treats symptoms.
00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:50.000
We cut, we poison, we burn, and we are really good, I'd say, at acute medicine, but we suck at chronic health care.
00:07:50.399 --> 00:08:00.480
And most of the problems that we face in our healthcare world are chronic problems that are being treated by attempted acute solutions.
00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:09.920
And so uh going back and understanding what functional medicine is, what the root cause of a disease is, is it's my next chapter.
00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:15.600
It's the chapter of my career now that I'm really blessed to be able to move full force because you know what?
00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:17.839
Nish, I'm 65 years old.
00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:22.639
I am fully board certified in everything that I wanted to be board certified in.
00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:34.320
I'm certified in psychedelic therapy, but the most important thing is they can't silence me and they can't cancel me because I can't be canceled at 65.
00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:53.200
I am entitled to my beliefs, I'm entitled to uh to discuss things that I know to be true about vaccination, about root cause of illness, and I am working really, you know, tirelessly to bring other aspects of healing into Western medicine.
00:08:53.279 --> 00:09:07.519
In addition to plant medicine, using bioelectric technologies, vagus nerve stimulation that I talked about at the conference, using ion cyclotron resonance, which got thank God I met Ann Shivis at the conference on stage.
00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.919
I mean, that was divine intervention, putting us both there.
00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:10.559
Amazing.
00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.919
And bringing these technologies in that are going to disrupt the status quo.
00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:25.440
We are going to disrupt how Western medicine views health and well-being by bringing actual um solutions to these problems.
00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:37.279
And it rocks the apple part of Western medicine because it's the uh it's the pill for the ill society, you know, where Rockefeller medicine has got to be busted down and cracked wide open.
00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:39.120
So that's where I am.
00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:40.240
I love this.
00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:44.960
It's a couple things that I just want folks to hear very loud and clear.
00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:53.279
Last month, my I get I have a membership or a subscription to Scientific America, you know, which is typically a little more conservative leaning.
00:09:53.440 --> 00:10:00.480
And the front page of that journal and a huge section of the article is talking exactly about what Dr.
00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:04.799
Bath is speaking to here, that the future of medicine is quantum biology.
00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:17.039
And so those energy things that she's talking about, they may sound very esoteric, like the Reiki or these ionic these um patches that we're gonna talk about here as well in a moment, and some of these other methods are not woo.
00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:20.000
This is where medicine and technology is going.
00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:27.600
And you are not um you're you're you are a um you're leading the you're leading the charge into this.
00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:37.519
And so I would say that you've clearly been someone who sees things long before your colleagues do, and instead of waiting for it to become commonplace, you just charge ahead.
00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:44.159
That is clearly your your path since your friends in the medical industry woke you up to these all these years ago.
00:10:44.320 --> 00:11:09.919
And then I appreciate the other thing you said, which is so critical before we move to the next question, is once you saw from a variety of things, so friends coming through this process, especially your friend who's 27 years out, later the experience directly with standard of care in 2020 that just was completely out of resonance with you, and then a medicine journey that made you see things in a way that you said very clearly, you can't go back to the old way.
00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:12.000
This is what we always talk to our patients about.
00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:15.519
We cannot heal from the same environment in which we got sick.
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:17.600
The same is true for practitioners.
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:28.080
We can't support or be of service to our patients if we return to methods that no longer fit, you know, in a coherent way with the journey that our patients are on.
00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.519
And so is there anything else you'd like to say about that piece?
00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:40.960
Because I feel like you shifted your own energy, but you also showed up meeting your patients in a very different way through these decades.
00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:52.559
What's been what's been really wonderful is I still maintain a very, very strong reputation as a thought leader in Western medical breast care because I am an early adopter.
00:11:52.639 --> 00:12:02.879
I've adopted genomics of tumors, genetic testing, I've adopted minimally invasive technologies, state-of-the-art, optical coherence tomography.
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:11.200
Um we I was the first to image breast specimens in the operating room with a with a device that's now FDA cleared for intraoperative margin assessment.
00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:15.360
So I've not abandoned my Western medical roots.
00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:24.240
I I say I get I'm in the fence in between the worlds where I get to shift back and forth where I'm not gonna throw the baby out with the bathwater.
00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.159
There are some wonderful and amazing things.
00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:32.399
There are some breast cancers that absolutely need to have chemotherapy, but there are more breast cancers that aren't going to benefit from it.
00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:37.600
So why are we gonna put someone through a treatment out of fear and not out of empowerment?
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:55.919
So being able to uh create a hybrid model has allowed me and is affording me the opportunity to have my colleagues who are there, they're they're peaked, their um, their curiosity is peaked for everything.
00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:07.519
Because I I looked back 2004, I gave my first talk at the American Society of Breast Surgeons on integrative approach to breast cancer care, and there were some old cremudge guys that were saying, you know, Dr.
00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:09.360
Dupree, you're going way out on a limb.
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.039
And I said, Well, I picked a very strong branch, and someday you'll be on that branch with me.
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:17.200
And now one of the past presidents of ASVRS, Dr.
00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:30.000
Jay Harness, is the like Maven and leading the charge on exercise oncology because when you exercise, your body is pushing its own immune system to surveil your body better.
00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:50.000
So I feel like I'm really lucky to be not seen as a fringe character in cancer care, but as someone who people are paying attention to and going, Oh, oh, she took two groups of women to Mexico to do plant medicine, half survivors, half other cancer doctors.
00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:57.120
And, you know, across the board, they've all come back and said, was one of the most impactful spiritual experiences of their life.
00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:01.600
And so I'm not getting rid of it, I'm not telling my patients, oh, don't get treatment.
00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:01.919
Right.
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:03.279
Go do plant medicine.
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:23.519
It's as part of the process, as we come up with a plan of action for you, plant medicine may be something that helps you heal those aspects of yourself that are playing the old programs in your brain that need to have a new place to be filed, because we don't need to play those old programs that no longer serve us.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:29.600
That was a little like mic drop moment right there.
00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:47.840
You know, and you've said this over and over in your books that healing isn't something we do to a person, which is what our I think our standard of care colleagues, and actually, I think even in the integrative and functional medicine space, we have this belief system that it's something we are doing to impart the wisdom in this body.
00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:53.600
You are so clear now that it's something that is to be awakened within the person that you're working with.
00:14:53.679 --> 00:15:01.200
And so that's quite a bit of a bomb to drop inside a profession that's built on intervention or a belief system that we somehow have the answers.
00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:07.200
Um, so on this, you know, show here on this podcast, you know, we say the body isn't broken.
00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:07.679
No.
00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:11.279
Simply responding intelligently to its environment.
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:22.799
So when you have a woman sitting across from you who's newly diagnosed and terrified, what does it actually look like to awaken something in her rather than just to act upon it?
00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:34.799
The approach that I have found works the best is to number one, present the data on the tumor, tumor size, grade, stage.
00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:53.200
And before I go into treatment options, I have a side of my consult that looks at nutrition, exercise, sleep, stress, all of the factors that are under our control in a way to prevent recurrence.
00:15:53.360 --> 00:16:04.480
And what that does is that sets the stage to basically say, I plan to get you past this cancer diagnosis, but these are the things, this is how you change the microenvironment.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:09.279
In um autobiography of an uh autobiography, oh it's Dr.
00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:10.320
McKenzie's book.
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:13.679
Um it the oh God, I'm I'm losing the name.
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:15.120
This is my senior moment.
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:17.519
Um we'll find it, we'll put it in the shop.
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:22.480
When you when you when you talk about when you talk about the soil and the seed, yeah.
00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:28.080
The seed, the seed is planted in your body, and it has to have fertile soil to grow to create a cancer.
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:40.000
And if all I do is take out that seed that's grown into the plant, even if I can get all those roots out, that soil still needs to be changed.
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.559
And this is the whole idea of what you talk about, the terrain.
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:48.639
The terrain is the microenvironment that our body program runs off of.
00:16:48.799 --> 00:17:00.320
And so if we don't look at how to shift our consciousness, how we think, Bruce Lipton, epigenetics, how we think impacts how our body responds.
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:10.960
So setting that stage for a patient that they're going to be healthy, whole, and complete for a long time, and I don't say these are things that are broken you, I'll say these are opportunities for improvement.
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:22.720
If someone doesn't exercise and their BMI is a little too high for their height, I say, listen, you can grow four inches, or we got to find a way to drop 20 pounds because we got to get rid of those circulating estrogen.
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:24.160
How do we change your diet?
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:25.680
How do you learn to eat clean?
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:31.599
How do you stop drinking toxins like alcohol or smoking or whatever they're doing?
00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:46.000
And then looking at all the other aspects of psychosocial emotional well-being, because a lot of patients, their doctors want to put them on anxiolytics and antidepressants, and I'm like, please avoid it at all costs.
00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:50.240
Then I'll go back and I'll focus on how we physically treat the cancer, all right?
00:17:50.559 --> 00:18:03.119
And as they're coming through their treatment, I make sure that when their Western medical treatment is completed, like whatever it is, I get them back to the office and I call it a cliff appointment because now they're on the cliff.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:10.400
Because everybody else is like, your cancer's done, um, go on with your life, just go back to and you can't go back to what you're doing.
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:11.440
It's all different.
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.759
Everything's different, it everything changes.
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:21.599
And so by looking at the long game, as I call it, starting the long game at the beginning is big.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:29.839
And I have a foundation that provides healing services, Reiki, massage, guided imagery, nutritional counseling, spiritual counseling.
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:40.400
I have a trauma program where when I do an ACES score and I find out that someone has an ACES score of six because they've had a really difficult childhood.
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:45.359
You know, ACES scores are four or more, have about a 200% increased incidence of cancer.
00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:57.839
So if we don't address those aspects, the soil is not going to be um prepared to continue to grow that individual's soul.
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:03.440
It will be potentially available to grow more seeds of cancer, and we don't want that to happen.
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:09.759
And so everything in how I look at cancer over the years has just been a progression.
00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:31.200
But it's the clarity that I have now about it is, you know, I can cut out the cancer, but if I don't cut out the fear, and if I don't help you cut out those things that are resonating in your body that are creating a dis-ease or disequilibrium, other things will get to you, whether it's psychosocial, emotional, whether it's another cancer, whether it's another disease.
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:35.680
But we all have opportunities to heal at whatever level.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:43.599
And I am really grateful for my experience when I was in Arizona because you know, bless the thing that breaks you down and cracks you wide open.
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:58.240
And that was what my hospital experience out there did, because I never in a freaking million years would have ever gone and done psilocybin because I'm I was so anti, I thought it was a drug, but psilocybin is a medicine, is a plant medicine that God gave us.
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:06.319
There are many beautiful plant medicines that are out there that in the appropriate set and setting play a really important role in cancer care.
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:15.839
And, you know, if you had asked me 10 years ago, I would say number one, I couldn't spell psilocybin or ayahuasca, uh, but because I was, you know, spelling challenged.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:23.359
But I now know that there is a place for multiple different healing modalities within this space.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:32.640
And we need to kind of get out of our own way as Western medically trained doctors to allow our patients to find their path of healing.
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:33.359
That's important.
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:34.559
I love this.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:39.440
And what I think is so remarkable what you're saying is there isn't a single path.
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:42.720
There's only the path that meets that person where they are.
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.160
And sometimes those tools come from a toolbox of standard of care.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:59.359
Sometimes those tools come from something we co-evolved with since the beginning of humanity, and sometimes that comes from something somewhere in between, which you have been exploring the edges of that your whole career as well.
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:12.559
And one of those edges has been in the management of pain, which I think is such, oof, I mean, it just gives me chills to think about this because pain we often think about as a very physical experience, but it's a lot more than that.
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:19.359
And so your recent work is really focused in this area, especially in non-narcotic ways of meeting it.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:23.839
This bioelectric and these integrated tools that you advise on now.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:28.559
So, you know, for me, pain is just like, you know, cancer, they're messengers, right?
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:36.480
And so pain is one of the places where our whole culture defaults to override it, to silence it, to push through it, to medicate it.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:42.240
But you, you spent years asking what pain is trying to tell us instead.
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:48.799
And so, what have you learned about meeting pain as information rather than as an enemy to be defeated?
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:56.000
Yeah, I got it, I got introduced to um Signal Relief, which is a non-narcotic pain patch back in 2021.
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:57.440
And I wasn't looking for it.
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.680
I had done a documentary called The Healthcare Cure.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:01.839
Found it by accident.
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:05.039
Didn't think it would work because I thought it was snake oil.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:08.720
And I was like, how can a patch with micrometals, blah, blah, blah?
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.240
Anyway, suffice it to say it did make a difference.
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:15.839
Um, it is amazing, and we've done the research.
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:20.160
We're actually doing a prospective randomized placebo controlled trial right now for menstrual cramps.
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:25.680
So if you know anybody, um, because we I I really want to prove this in women's health.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:39.200
We've we did a pilot study with endometriosis just to make sure that we were able to help that pain, which we could, but um the the the whole idea of when our body's in pain, it's telling us something.
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:49.119
In in the acute setting post-surgically, I know that I know I can use these pain patches because they don't put anything into the body and they work great for my patients.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.519
When patients have chronic pain, there's a couple layers of this.
00:22:53.759 --> 00:23:00.400
Number one, if I can put a pain patch on them and alleviate their pain, it's blocking that sigma going back to their brain.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.400
But what's causing that low back pain?
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:10.400
Is this the weight of the world on their shoulders because they have a CFO who's stealing money from their company and they're feeling that pain?
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:12.880
And once they get rid of the CFO, their pain stops.
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:19.599
And that just recently happened to a colleague of mine who, you know, he didn't realize that there was a monkey on his shoulders, right?
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:29.440
The other thing that I'm doing right now is um Ann Shivis, who I lovily met through, thank you, God, for letting me meet her through you.
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:38.720
We are using ion cyclotron resonance to actually get to the root cause of the pain, where we're putting patients on this tech new, it's a medical technology in Italy.
00:23:38.799 --> 00:24:02.079
We're bringing it here as a wellness device, but we're using the combination because we're putting people on the mat, well hydrated, moving ions, helping to alleviate chronic pain, and then using the pain patch in the interim of sessions in order to break, in order to break that cycle and you know, eventually get to the root cause of the pain.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:12.400
But we have so many people in this country who are being over-medicated with narcotics, with non-steroidals, with acetaminophant.
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:19.680
Like we're we're just we're beating up our livers, our kidneys, and you know, our our pill for the ill society.
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:33.599
We've we've got it, we've got to shift what we do because unfortunately, if we don't, we're gonna have many more addicts, and we're gonna have a lot of people who burn out their liver and their kidneys by taking pain meds.
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:47.279
And so the this bioelectric world for me is so important because we're using the body's electrical system to create a shift internally and bring our body back into homeostasis.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:54.640
Homeostasis with everybody's happy, everybody's yeah, everybody's cool, calm, and collect, and the body knows how to function.
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.880
We just have to remind it how to get back there.
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:01.680
I love it because it makes me think about um clinic shifts I did many moons ago.
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:10.000
I did a re uh kind of an interim residency at the um Mesa Valley Lutheran Pain Clinic, you know, in the hospital setting, and they were doing things.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:10.640
So where Dr.
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:34.880
Beth is talking about this sort of these patches, back at those days, we were using CRM-guided CT scans to inject um procaine and whatnot into spaces or stelic ganglions, which were basically doing at a much more invasive level what you're describing, which was to block block or disrupt that that that cycle and sort of re-reirate.
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:44.000
So knowing that we have these less invasive, way less, you know, um problematic tools to use is so so remarkable to me.
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:53.359
And I think you hit the you know the the nail on the head in that in this country, in the United States specifically, we're the only country that's losing longevity.
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:54.000
Never mind.
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:56.240
Oh, yeah, we're we're we're going backwards.
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:57.039
Exactly.
00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:58.400
I've a I've a pain.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:13.759
What you're talking about pain of either pain of an accidental overdose or an intentional overdose, and the pain of hum being a human on this planet is often creates physical pain, not just emotional pain.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:14.559
And so what Dr.
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:22.400
Beth is talking about here is really a tool for humanity's current crisis, which the scientists are calling the era of despair.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.359
So, is there anything you'd add to that discussion?
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:30.000
I I the thing that really did it for me, and I you'll read my second book.
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:57.039
In my last chapter of my second book, I had another angelic intervention, and I was kind of told by the by the tribunal of spiritual beings that I would be introduced to a frequency technology that not only would treat and bring the body back into alignment with frequency, but could also basically um rebuild and remodel and regenerate tissue.
00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:04.000
And so when I read some of the papers from Italy that Ann shared with me with Dr.
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:11.759
Alberta Garoli, they were able to regenerate a femoral head of a person that had avascular necrosis with 12 weeks of ICR.
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:16.000
And so that got that got my attention because I'm like, okay, I'm supposed to pay attention.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:24.720
It's because of that that channeling in 2019 that I got involved with the pain patch, that I've been doing the transcranial, that I've been doing the transcutaneous vagus stuff.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:31.039
And then Anna Alberto came in January, so just like you know, eight weeks after I met her with you.
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:39.599
And that first day in the office, before we even did our training, I had a nurse who was suffering with chronic regional pain syndrome, CRPS.
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:43.119
She was on uh narcotics and anxiolytics.
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:47.200
She couldn't even hug, she couldn't touch because her body was so inflamed.
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:56.960
And after I figured out what I had to do with her breast stuff, I went to Ann and Alberto and I said, Listen, this lady is in so much pain, like I can't even get near her.
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:02.480
So I said, How about I bring her down the hallway and you guys give her a go?
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:04.240
Because what have we got to lose?
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:04.799
Wow.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:10.799
Literally, after 36 minutes, she hopped off the mat, she hugged me for the first time.
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:13.039
She was able to, we she's weaned off her bed.
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:17.359
She was just in today for a little tune-up, but it's changed her life.
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.279
And it was that day that I said, All right, I'm all in.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.920
Like, I've got to help you guys bring this to the masses.
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:32.640
I I don't even know that you've experienced it yet, Nation, but you need to because Anne, Anna and Alberto are they're very passionate about this.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:37.440
It's a beautiful wellness technology for the U.S.
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:44.319
But we're gonna do some critical studies because someday I could see this getting through the FDA for certain indications.
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:52.240
And I'm really excited to be part of it because I I've always wanted to be part of the solution and not stay part of the problem.
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:56.000
Which again, this speaks volumes about your history.
00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:59.759
I mean, everyone's hearing this theme that has come through that Dr.
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:03.680
Beth sees an opportunity and pivots.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.799
You know, you have I didn't have time to do that.
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:11.039
I believe me, I did not have time to add one more thing to my plate.
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:24.880
But when the universe brings something in front of you and it's legitimate and it's life-changing and it's game-changing, if you don't pay attention, you know, the universe is gonna smack you and make you pay attention later.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:26.880
So um I was all in.
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:29.680
Oh my gosh, so big.
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:38.720
You know, you alluded to in the beginning of the work that you do now is no more sort of the you're moving further away from the triage place and moving more into survivorship work.
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:44.160
And so this is the part, like you mentioned, we ring the bell and we're told that that's the end of the story.
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:45.839
And I love how you call it the cliff.
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:51.920
Like you're now walking people to that, you're walking people away from the cliff or to the cliff, depending on the way you want to look at it.
00:29:52.160 --> 00:30:04.000
But that is such a critical piece because survivorship is probably one of the least supported aspects of people in healthcare, in my personal opinion.
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:10.079
And so you stepped back from that operating room sort of triage space to go deeper into survivorship.
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:29.119
And the, which is, I would say, is probably the loneliest stretch of highway for someone coming off of this journey, you know, and it's like the treatment ends, everyone else around you is exhaling, all of the support that rushed around you while you're going through treatment, you know, is gone and you're just left there way more vulnerable than ever.
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:32.640
So you are helping people start to understand their capacity.
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:37.519
You're helping people understand that there is no specified finish line.
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:50.559
So, can you talk to us about what does real survivorship ask of a person and what does it ask of us, the clinician, that we may be deaf to at this moment?
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:57.359
I think clinicians need to recognize that survivorship has to begin a diagnosis.
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:10.799
Patients have to be brought into the fold of survivorship, knowing that they have to do the hard work for treatment, but that survivorship, it's the little changes that they make along the way.
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:18.000
We're doing a we're actually going to be having my foundation open a survivorship clinic down the street from my office.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:28.160
We have one little room in my office right now, but we need bigger spaces because the clinical trial we did with the mind vibe, the non-invasive vegastem, our data is amazing.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:29.920
And I need to be able to offer that to more people.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:37.680
So I need more rooms and I need more chairs and more places because now that I've done the research, once you know you can't unknow it, and you've got to be able to provide it.
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:53.599
So making sure that we as clinicians are always looking for opportunities to inspire our patients to live their authentic, best, healthy life and supporting them in any way we can.
00:31:53.759 --> 00:32:09.039
It's hard enough to go through cancer, but it's even harder when you're living with chronic pain or a deformity of a breast or lack of um sexual function or a dry vagina, um, something as simple as sex and intimacy.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:13.279
Like we should be focusing on that, not avoiding those conversations.
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:18.240
And so I, you know, I don't ever have to do another operation again as long as I live.
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:30.480
But I'm not done focusing on survivorship because when we get really good at helping our patients with survivorship after cancer, we will then unlock the keys to preventing cancer overall.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:39.440
Because if we were doing these things to begin with, there's no need to get the cancer to wake you up to figure out how to live your best life.
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:40.400
I love this.
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:47.759
You know, I wrote a blog recently or in my Substack about the concept that there are so many people that are so terrified of dying that they simply are.
00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:48.799
They don't live.
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:49.440
They don't live.
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:51.920
Yeah, it's Tibetan book of living and dying.
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:53.039
That's what it's all about.
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:59.680
It's if you if you live your life afraid of living, you've I mean, I grab the brass ring every time I turn around.
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:07.440
You know, I told you, I'm I'm flying to Charlotte to help my kids get settled in a new home to prepare for their twins.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:08.880
I want to be here with my kids.
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:10.400
I want to be here for my kids.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:30.480
I want them to know that I'm doing what my parents did for me, which was they may not have all my parents may not have had all the money in the world, but they had time and energy to put into making sure that I and my husband were able to, you know, provide a safe, stable home, provide good food for our kids.
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:35.519
We the family unit has been so undervalued in our society.
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:37.519
Moms have been devalued.
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:48.319
You know, helping my you know daughter-in-law be successful at breastfeeding this year has been, it's one of my greatest accomplishments in the last 14 months because she really had a tough time at the beginning.
00:33:48.400 --> 00:34:00.400
And I'm hoping that my other daughter-in-law, who's about to deliver twins, it's not gonna be easy to breastfeed twins, but damn it, we're gonna make it happen and we are gonna be successful if that is what she's called to do and she really wants to try this.
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:05.599
Yeah, I need to be there to give her all of my energy in that time.
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:17.679
And so I may take a step back from my survivorship stuff for six months, but that's six months that I'm gonna be investing in my beautiful grandsons as they, you know, are born and develop.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:18.639
I love this.
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.079
And you know, you speak so much.
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:22.000
I mean, this is really about community, right?
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:28.239
And it is where we've left um our modern day parenting is very much also in a silo and very left alone.
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:42.960
And so what a gift that you are tending the terrain of the family unit in a way that was also almost a bygone era of these relational, tribal, communal ways that we all actually raise children from for millennia.
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:45.280
So I love that you're bringing that full circle.
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:56.079
And though you may step off the stage, if you will, of very direct survivorship care, you are ensuring the next generation has a fighting chance, which I think is really remarkable.
00:34:56.320 --> 00:35:33.519
And so it's been one of it's been one of the greatest gifts I've gotten from my plant medicine, my plant medicine training, because in the my instructor slash psychologist, slash shaman in Mexico who trained me, learning from the indigenous culture about the value of every generation and the time and energy that you put into your children and into your grandchildren is that is the timeless investment in the world because it's the unspoken language of love, of connection, of community.
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:52.000
And I think that we need to rekindle this and make and bring this up to the forefront because our world's so divided that if you don't have a solid family to start with, then how do you go out and you know walk through the world of crazy every day?
00:35:52.320 --> 00:36:16.639
Yeah, I I think that's so important to illustrate the importance of this, of this part of how we contend our own terrains and that of the community around us is if you didn't come from a really strong foundation of support, like you talked about those adverse childhood event scores, those elevated scores, you can certainly create your chosen family.
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:25.199
You can find community and other ways or be part of or create, you know, or a creator of community in a more thoughtful and intentional way.
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:27.280
And so, Beth, I love that you brought that up.
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:34.000
In closing, I've been asking all my guests, and I'd love to ask you this: what are you currently doing?
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:41.679
And maybe you've already touched on a lot of it in our talk today, but what are you currently tending to in your own terrain?
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:54.719
I have spent several years tending to my psychosocial emotional terrain through plant medicine, through many of the different modalities that I'm working to bring to the world.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:02.079
But over the last two years, I have really focused on my physical well-being.
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:06.719
I found out I had osteopenia two years ago, which was a surprise to me.
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:11.599
But I have been rucking with 21 pounds on my back three times a week.
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:16.559
I'm lifting weights, I'm doing my calcium, my vitamin D3, K2.
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:22.239
Um, I was on hormone replacement for a short period of time until I found out I probably shouldn't have been.
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:29.519
And I am planning to have a normal bone density after my ICR treatments in the next few months.
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:42.960
And the reason that that is so important to me is I have a buttload of grandbabies coming, and I need to be able to be crawling on the ground, playing with them, swinging, jumping, hiking, swimming, doing everything else.
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:52.079
So, my terrain right now that's the most important that my soul resides in is this physical body, which doesn't need to act old at all.
00:37:52.159 --> 00:38:00.880
It gets to stay young because I'm treating it as it is young, and it's going to stay healthy so that I get to be the best Baba ever, because that's what I'm going by, Baba.
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:06.000
This is the best, and I got chills.
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.800
That's one of my favorite responses yet, Dr.
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:09.199
Beth.
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:18.960
And hopefully it's a motivation, whether you are, you know, someone well before your years of conception or well beyond, or chose to never conceive.
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:35.920
Like in my world, I have 39 nieces and nephews, nine great nieces and nephews, four godchildren, two great godchildren, and I want to be around long enough and strong enough to basically kick their butts up and down, rucking up mountainsides into my elder years as well.
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:37.920
Oh, I love this, Dr.
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:38.559
Beth.
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:52.800
You are a force to be reckoned with, and I am so grateful our paths, after all these years, have finally connected, and that there's so many little like spokes coming off the central hub of this that our paths will continue to cross, I'm sure, over and over.
00:38:52.880 --> 00:39:08.559
And I cannot wait to see what you and Anne are coming out with and what you're doing with the pain support and the survivorship work, but most importantly, the work you're doing for your own body so that you can steward the next generations um into being.
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:10.400
So thank you for being with us today.
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:14.320
Thanks for the opportunity, and uh, we've only just begun, my friend.
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:16.559
That was Dr.
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:29.679
Beth Dupree, a surgeon who spent a career proving she could hold the scalpel with the best of them, and then spent the rest of it proving that the deepest healing begins where the cutting ends.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:43.199
What stays with me is her refusal to choose precision and presence, science and soul, the hands that operate, and the hands that simply rest and listen.
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:48.559
Her books are the healing consciousness and shifting gears.
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:52.400
And the foundation she built carries that work forward.
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:54.079
Go find her.
00:39:54.400 --> 00:40:04.800
And if you're somewhere in the after right now, the part no one prepared you for, let her remind you that healing was never something done to you.
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:08.480
It's something still waking up inside you.
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:13.920
Thanks for tending the terrain with me today.
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:17.840
Whatever stirred in you, don't rush past it.
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:19.360
Let it compost.
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:24.559
Because when we tend the terrain, life knows what to do.
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:27.440
See you in our next conversation.
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:02.080
Imagine a surgeon.
00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:13.039
Picture the hands, steady, trained, certain, the kind of hands you'd want holding the scalpel on the worst day of your life.
00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:24.719
Now imagine those same hands learning to rest on a frightened woman's shoulder and do nothing at all but transmit something the textbooks have never named.
00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:28.559
That's the woman I get to introduce you to today.
00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:29.199
Dr.
00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:47.280
Beth Dupree has been a breast cancer surgeon for more than 35 years, board certified in general surgery, an academic leader, the kind of physician who led a cancer center to national accreditation as a center of excellence and served as a hospital vice president.
00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:51.679
Every credential the system can hand a person, she earned.
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.679
And then she did the thing the system rarely forgives.
00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:02.320
She started listening to her patients in a way that changed what she believed medicine was for.
00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:09.200
Somewhere in the operating room, between the diagnosis and the margins and the survival curves, Dr.
00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:14.719
Beth came to a conviction she now says out loud on any stage that will have her.
00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.640
Healing is not something we do to a person.
00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:21.120
It is something we awaken within.
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:30.640
She wrote that conviction into two books, The Healing Consciousness and Shifting Gears, and built a foundation around it.
00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:36.400
She trained in Reiki, in integrative medicine, in psychedelic assisted therapy.
00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:49.920
She stepped back from full-time surgery, not to retreat from medicine, but to go further into it, into survivorship, into the nervous system, into non-narcotic ways of meeting pain.
00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:53.120
Full disclosure before we begin.
00:01:53.519 --> 00:02:01.599
She's the physician behind a pain patch that got me through a torn rib cartilage that I wouldn't want to wish on anyone.
00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:03.760
So I'm not a neutral party here.
00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:10.080
I'm a patient who has been helped, sitting down with the surgeon who learned to ask a different question.
00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:12.800
Looking forward to this conversation with Dr.
00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:14.479
Beth Dupree.
00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:18.000
I'm Dr.
00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:28.000
Naisha, and this is Tend the Terrain, where we stop drowning in information long enough to recognize we're starving for something much deeper.
00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:32.879
Health doesn't happen in isolation, it happens in a terrain.
00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:38.879
The biology, the rhythms, the relationships, the meaning you're still making.
00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:44.800
All of it shapes whether life expresses its vitality or quietly begins to unravel.
00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:52.800
And each week I sit down with scientists, physicians, farmers, artists, patients, and systems thinkers.
00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:56.400
People who talk about bodies, but also about land.
00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:03.439
About healing, but also about grief and belonging and what it means to become human again.
00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:08.800
This isn't a show for quick answers, it's a space for better questions.
00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:10.719
Pull up a chair.
00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:19.520
The amazing Dr.
00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:20.400
Beth Dupree.
00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:33.039
And before we were really rolling, we were trying to figure out it has been at least two decades that friends and colleagues have tried to bring our worlds together, and they finally collided last year when Dr.
00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:37.520
Beth was part of an event that I co-facilitated in Tucson.
00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:40.159
But now we've become even more.
00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:44.400
We've become friends and colleagues, and we look forward to see where this next path goes.
00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:48.719
This is why I'm excited to introduce the rest of you to her, though, because Dr.
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:52.319
Beth, as I mentioned in the introduction, trained as a surgeon.
00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:54.719
So, Doc, you trained as a surgeon.
00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:57.199
You you literally cut it all out.
00:03:57.280 --> 00:03:59.759
You know, you moved on to the next room.
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:04.240
That is obviously a very sacred and useful skill, and you were incredible at it.
00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:08.719
But somewhere along the way, you started to see that surgery just wasn't enough.
00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:10.800
So can you take us back to that moment?
00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:17.759
What were your what were you witnessing in your patients before, during, and after the operating room that standard of care couldn't hold?
00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:21.519
And when did it become impossible for you to unsee?
00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:35.519
It my path started early on, and it really was, I'm gonna say it was instigated by some of my closest friends who were doctors and had medical challenges.
00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:43.519
My girlfriend Chris, um, who in 1995, I believe, was diagnosed with ALS.
00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:50.800
My girlfriend Lauren, same time almost, was diagnosed with a very aggressive brain tumor.
00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:53.759
So I have a radiologist, an orthopedic surgeon.
00:04:54.000 --> 00:05:05.279
I had my head of pathology diagnosed with metastatic colon cancer, and a urologist who was a real dear, dear, dear man, diagnosed with metastatic melanoma.
00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.399
And so four colleagues in Western medicine, all around like the same time.
00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.399
And Western medicine failed all but one.
00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:22.160
Um, I I lost my girlfriend Chris to ALS, but she taught me so much along the way about healing.
00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:42.160
I lost uh Chris, uh, my pathologist to metastatic colon cancer and Bill to um melanoma, and then my girlfriend Lauren, who literally the first surgeon we saw, he was a dork because he basically gave her uh her her timeline of how long she would live.
00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:44.000
It was like 18-month prognosis.
00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:46.480
God willing, she's now 20-some years later.
00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.560
Um she had surgery, chemo radiation, but she introduced me to Reiki.
00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:52.639
I didn't know what Japanese energy healing was.
00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:53.600
I had no clue.
00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:56.720
I was, you know, they've nothing heals like cold steel surgeon.
00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:06.319
And that introduction to Reiki back in the early 90s um not only impacted me, it impacted my kids because they did the training, my husband.
00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:16.720
And through the years, a lot of the anesthesiologists and other doctors have thought like I was kind of on a different, I had left the reservation of Western medicine.
00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:18.000
Thank God I did.
00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:22.000
But those were the beginning seeds that got planted.
00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:42.480
But I will say that, you know, I I I went through my certification in integrative medicine, did more aspects of energy healing, but the biggest blow to um my Western medical career and where I just decided it was time to just tear down the walls and start again was during COVID.
00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:48.879
As I call it the shit show of COVID, because I was forced to take a vaccine that I knew better than to take.
00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:54.240
I was in a health system that dishonored me, that dishonored the women in our community.
00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:58.000
They weren't truthful about things that happened within the health system.
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:04.160
And in 2020, I did my first plant medicine journey with psilocybin.
00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:04.639
Wow.
00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:07.519
And once you see, you cannot unsee.
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:19.360
Once you recognize that the things that have been shown to you in your career are not as they should be, um, you can't go backwards.
00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:22.720
And I, you know, I continue to operate as a surgeon.
00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:27.519
I'm still a surgeon, I'm, but I'm mostly focused on survivorship, functional medicine.
00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:39.600
And I've said along the way, you know, I'm far more aligned with my osteopathic friends and my naturopathic friends than I are and with my allopathic friends because Western medicine treats symptoms.
00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:50.000
We cut, we poison, we burn, and we are really good, I'd say, at acute medicine, but we suck at chronic health care.
00:07:50.399 --> 00:08:00.480
And most of the problems that we face in our healthcare world are chronic problems that are being treated by attempted acute solutions.
00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:09.920
And so uh going back and understanding what functional medicine is, what the root cause of a disease is, is it's my next chapter.
00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:15.600
It's the chapter of my career now that I'm really blessed to be able to move full force because you know what?
00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:17.839
Nish, I'm 65 years old.
00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:22.639
I am fully board certified in everything that I wanted to be board certified in.
00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:34.320
I'm certified in psychedelic therapy, but the most important thing is they can't silence me and they can't cancel me because I can't be canceled at 65.
00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:53.200
I am entitled to my beliefs, I'm entitled to uh to discuss things that I know to be true about vaccination, about root cause of illness, and I am working really, you know, tirelessly to bring other aspects of healing into Western medicine.
00:08:53.279 --> 00:09:07.519
In addition to plant medicine, using bioelectric technologies, vagus nerve stimulation that I talked about at the conference, using ion cyclotron resonance, which got thank God I met Ann Shivis at the conference on stage.
00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.919
I mean, that was divine intervention, putting us both there.
00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:10.559
Amazing.
00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.919
And bringing these technologies in that are going to disrupt the status quo.
00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:25.440
We are going to disrupt how Western medicine views health and well-being by bringing actual um solutions to these problems.
00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:37.279
And it rocks the apple part of Western medicine because it's the uh it's the pill for the ill society, you know, where Rockefeller medicine has got to be busted down and cracked wide open.
00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:39.120
So that's where I am.
00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:40.240
I love this.
00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:44.960
It's a couple things that I just want folks to hear very loud and clear.
00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:53.279
Last month, my I get I have a membership or a subscription to Scientific America, you know, which is typically a little more conservative leaning.
00:09:53.440 --> 00:10:00.480
And the front page of that journal and a huge section of the article is talking exactly about what Dr.
00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:04.799
Bath is speaking to here, that the future of medicine is quantum biology.
00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:17.039
And so those energy things that she's talking about, they may sound very esoteric, like the Reiki or these ionic these um patches that we're gonna talk about here as well in a moment, and some of these other methods are not woo.
00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:20.000
This is where medicine and technology is going.
00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:27.600
And you are not um you're you're you are a um you're leading the you're leading the charge into this.
00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:37.519
And so I would say that you've clearly been someone who sees things long before your colleagues do, and instead of waiting for it to become commonplace, you just charge ahead.
00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:44.159
That is clearly your your path since your friends in the medical industry woke you up to these all these years ago.
00:10:44.320 --> 00:11:09.919
And then I appreciate the other thing you said, which is so critical before we move to the next question, is once you saw from a variety of things, so friends coming through this process, especially your friend who's 27 years out, later the experience directly with standard of care in 2020 that just was completely out of resonance with you, and then a medicine journey that made you see things in a way that you said very clearly, you can't go back to the old way.
00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:12.000
This is what we always talk to our patients about.
00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:15.519
We cannot heal from the same environment in which we got sick.
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:17.600
The same is true for practitioners.
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:28.080
We can't support or be of service to our patients if we return to methods that no longer fit, you know, in a coherent way with the journey that our patients are on.
00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.519
And so is there anything else you'd like to say about that piece?
00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:40.960
Because I feel like you shifted your own energy, but you also showed up meeting your patients in a very different way through these decades.
00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:52.559
What's been what's been really wonderful is I still maintain a very, very strong reputation as a thought leader in Western medical breast care because I am an early adopter.
00:11:52.639 --> 00:12:02.879
I've adopted genomics of tumors, genetic testing, I've adopted minimally invasive technologies, state-of-the-art, optical coherence tomography.
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:11.200
Um we I was the first to image breast specimens in the operating room with a with a device that's now FDA cleared for intraoperative margin assessment.
00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:15.360
So I've not abandoned my Western medical roots.
00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:24.240
I I say I get I'm in the fence in between the worlds where I get to shift back and forth where I'm not gonna throw the baby out with the bathwater.
00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.159
There are some wonderful and amazing things.
00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:32.399
There are some breast cancers that absolutely need to have chemotherapy, but there are more breast cancers that aren't going to benefit from it.
00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:37.600
So why are we gonna put someone through a treatment out of fear and not out of empowerment?
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:55.919
So being able to uh create a hybrid model has allowed me and is affording me the opportunity to have my colleagues who are there, they're they're peaked, their um, their curiosity is peaked for everything.
00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:07.519
Because I I looked back 2004, I gave my first talk at the American Society of Breast Surgeons on integrative approach to breast cancer care, and there were some old cremudge guys that were saying, you know, Dr.
00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:09.360
Dupree, you're going way out on a limb.
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.039
And I said, Well, I picked a very strong branch, and someday you'll be on that branch with me.
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:17.200
And now one of the past presidents of ASVRS, Dr.
00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:30.000
Jay Harness, is the like Maven and leading the charge on exercise oncology because when you exercise, your body is pushing its own immune system to surveil your body better.
00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:50.000
So I feel like I'm really lucky to be not seen as a fringe character in cancer care, but as someone who people are paying attention to and going, Oh, oh, she took two groups of women to Mexico to do plant medicine, half survivors, half other cancer doctors.
00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:57.120
And, you know, across the board, they've all come back and said, was one of the most impactful spiritual experiences of their life.
00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:01.600
And so I'm not getting rid of it, I'm not telling my patients, oh, don't get treatment.
00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:01.919
Right.
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:03.279
Go do plant medicine.
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:23.519
It's as part of the process, as we come up with a plan of action for you, plant medicine may be something that helps you heal those aspects of yourself that are playing the old programs in your brain that need to have a new place to be filed, because we don't need to play those old programs that no longer serve us.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:29.600
That was a little like mic drop moment right there.
00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:47.840
You know, and you've said this over and over in your books that healing isn't something we do to a person, which is what our I think our standard of care colleagues, and actually, I think even in the integrative and functional medicine space, we have this belief system that it's something we are doing to impart the wisdom in this body.
00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:53.600
You are so clear now that it's something that is to be awakened within the person that you're working with.
00:14:53.679 --> 00:15:01.200
And so that's quite a bit of a bomb to drop inside a profession that's built on intervention or a belief system that we somehow have the answers.
00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:07.200
Um, so on this, you know, show here on this podcast, you know, we say the body isn't broken.
00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:07.679
No.
00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:11.279
Simply responding intelligently to its environment.
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:22.799
So when you have a woman sitting across from you who's newly diagnosed and terrified, what does it actually look like to awaken something in her rather than just to act upon it?
00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:34.799
The approach that I have found works the best is to number one, present the data on the tumor, tumor size, grade, stage.
00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:53.200
And before I go into treatment options, I have a side of my consult that looks at nutrition, exercise, sleep, stress, all of the factors that are under our control in a way to prevent recurrence.
00:15:53.360 --> 00:16:04.480
And what that does is that sets the stage to basically say, I plan to get you past this cancer diagnosis, but these are the things, this is how you change the microenvironment.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:09.279
In um autobiography of an uh autobiography, oh it's Dr.
00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:10.320
McKenzie's book.
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:13.679
Um it the oh God, I'm I'm losing the name.
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:15.120
This is my senior moment.
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:17.519
Um we'll find it, we'll put it in the shop.
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:22.480
When you when you when you talk about when you talk about the soil and the seed, yeah.
00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:28.080
The seed, the seed is planted in your body, and it has to have fertile soil to grow to create a cancer.
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:40.000
And if all I do is take out that seed that's grown into the plant, even if I can get all those roots out, that soil still needs to be changed.
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.559
And this is the whole idea of what you talk about, the terrain.
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:48.639
The terrain is the microenvironment that our body program runs off of.
00:16:48.799 --> 00:17:00.320
And so if we don't look at how to shift our consciousness, how we think, Bruce Lipton, epigenetics, how we think impacts how our body responds.
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:10.960
So setting that stage for a patient that they're going to be healthy, whole, and complete for a long time, and I don't say these are things that are broken you, I'll say these are opportunities for improvement.
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:22.720
If someone doesn't exercise and their BMI is a little too high for their height, I say, listen, you can grow four inches, or we got to find a way to drop 20 pounds because we got to get rid of those circulating estrogen.
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:24.160
How do we change your diet?
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:25.680
How do you learn to eat clean?
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:31.599
How do you stop drinking toxins like alcohol or smoking or whatever they're doing?
00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:46.000
And then looking at all the other aspects of psychosocial emotional well-being, because a lot of patients, their doctors want to put them on anxiolytics and antidepressants, and I'm like, please avoid it at all costs.
00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:50.240
Then I'll go back and I'll focus on how we physically treat the cancer, all right?
00:17:50.559 --> 00:18:03.119
And as they're coming through their treatment, I make sure that when their Western medical treatment is completed, like whatever it is, I get them back to the office and I call it a cliff appointment because now they're on the cliff.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:10.400
Because everybody else is like, your cancer's done, um, go on with your life, just go back to and you can't go back to what you're doing.
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:11.440
It's all different.
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.759
Everything's different, it everything changes.
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:21.599
And so by looking at the long game, as I call it, starting the long game at the beginning is big.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:29.839
And I have a foundation that provides healing services, Reiki, massage, guided imagery, nutritional counseling, spiritual counseling.
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:40.400
I have a trauma program where when I do an ACES score and I find out that someone has an ACES score of six because they've had a really difficult childhood.
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:45.359
You know, ACES scores are four or more, have about a 200% increased incidence of cancer.
00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:57.839
So if we don't address those aspects, the soil is not going to be um prepared to continue to grow that individual's soul.
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:03.440
It will be potentially available to grow more seeds of cancer, and we don't want that to happen.
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:09.759
And so everything in how I look at cancer over the years has just been a progression.
00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:31.200
But it's the clarity that I have now about it is, you know, I can cut out the cancer, but if I don't cut out the fear, and if I don't help you cut out those things that are resonating in your body that are creating a dis-ease or disequilibrium, other things will get to you, whether it's psychosocial, emotional, whether it's another cancer, whether it's another disease.
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:35.680
But we all have opportunities to heal at whatever level.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:43.599
And I am really grateful for my experience when I was in Arizona because you know, bless the thing that breaks you down and cracks you wide open.
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:58.240
And that was what my hospital experience out there did, because I never in a freaking million years would have ever gone and done psilocybin because I'm I was so anti, I thought it was a drug, but psilocybin is a medicine, is a plant medicine that God gave us.
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:06.319
There are many beautiful plant medicines that are out there that in the appropriate set and setting play a really important role in cancer care.
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:15.839
And, you know, if you had asked me 10 years ago, I would say number one, I couldn't spell psilocybin or ayahuasca, uh, but because I was, you know, spelling challenged.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:23.359
But I now know that there is a place for multiple different healing modalities within this space.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:32.640
And we need to kind of get out of our own way as Western medically trained doctors to allow our patients to find their path of healing.
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:33.359
That's important.
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:34.559
I love this.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:39.440
And what I think is so remarkable what you're saying is there isn't a single path.
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:42.720
There's only the path that meets that person where they are.
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.160
And sometimes those tools come from a toolbox of standard of care.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:59.359
Sometimes those tools come from something we co-evolved with since the beginning of humanity, and sometimes that comes from something somewhere in between, which you have been exploring the edges of that your whole career as well.
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:12.559
And one of those edges has been in the management of pain, which I think is such, oof, I mean, it just gives me chills to think about this because pain we often think about as a very physical experience, but it's a lot more than that.
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:19.359
And so your recent work is really focused in this area, especially in non-narcotic ways of meeting it.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:23.839
This bioelectric and these integrated tools that you advise on now.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:28.559
So, you know, for me, pain is just like, you know, cancer, they're messengers, right?
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:36.480
And so pain is one of the places where our whole culture defaults to override it, to silence it, to push through it, to medicate it.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:42.240
But you, you spent years asking what pain is trying to tell us instead.
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:48.799
And so, what have you learned about meeting pain as information rather than as an enemy to be defeated?
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:56.000
Yeah, I got it, I got introduced to um Signal Relief, which is a non-narcotic pain patch back in 2021.
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:57.440
And I wasn't looking for it.
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.680
I had done a documentary called The Healthcare Cure.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:01.839
Found it by accident.
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:05.039
Didn't think it would work because I thought it was snake oil.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:08.720
And I was like, how can a patch with micrometals, blah, blah, blah?
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.240
Anyway, suffice it to say it did make a difference.
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:15.839
Um, it is amazing, and we've done the research.
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:20.160
We're actually doing a prospective randomized placebo controlled trial right now for menstrual cramps.
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:25.680
So if you know anybody, um, because we I I really want to prove this in women's health.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:39.200
We've we did a pilot study with endometriosis just to make sure that we were able to help that pain, which we could, but um the the the whole idea of when our body's in pain, it's telling us something.
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:49.119
In in the acute setting post-surgically, I know that I know I can use these pain patches because they don't put anything into the body and they work great for my patients.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.519
When patients have chronic pain, there's a couple layers of this.
00:22:53.759 --> 00:23:00.400
Number one, if I can put a pain patch on them and alleviate their pain, it's blocking that sigma going back to their brain.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.400
But what's causing that low back pain?
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:10.400
Is this the weight of the world on their shoulders because they have a CFO who's stealing money from their company and they're feeling that pain?
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:12.880
And once they get rid of the CFO, their pain stops.
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:19.599
And that just recently happened to a colleague of mine who, you know, he didn't realize that there was a monkey on his shoulders, right?
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:29.440
The other thing that I'm doing right now is um Ann Shivis, who I lovily met through, thank you, God, for letting me meet her through you.
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:38.720
We are using ion cyclotron resonance to actually get to the root cause of the pain, where we're putting patients on this tech new, it's a medical technology in Italy.
00:23:38.799 --> 00:24:02.079
We're bringing it here as a wellness device, but we're using the combination because we're putting people on the mat, well hydrated, moving ions, helping to alleviate chronic pain, and then using the pain patch in the interim of sessions in order to break, in order to break that cycle and you know, eventually get to the root cause of the pain.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:12.400
But we have so many people in this country who are being over-medicated with narcotics, with non-steroidals, with acetaminophant.
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:19.680
Like we're we're just we're beating up our livers, our kidneys, and you know, our our pill for the ill society.
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:33.599
We've we've got it, we've got to shift what we do because unfortunately, if we don't, we're gonna have many more addicts, and we're gonna have a lot of people who burn out their liver and their kidneys by taking pain meds.
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:47.279
And so the this bioelectric world for me is so important because we're using the body's electrical system to create a shift internally and bring our body back into homeostasis.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:54.640
Homeostasis with everybody's happy, everybody's yeah, everybody's cool, calm, and collect, and the body knows how to function.
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.880
We just have to remind it how to get back there.
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:01.680
I love it because it makes me think about um clinic shifts I did many moons ago.
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:10.000
I did a re uh kind of an interim residency at the um Mesa Valley Lutheran Pain Clinic, you know, in the hospital setting, and they were doing things.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:10.640
So where Dr.
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:34.880
Beth is talking about this sort of these patches, back at those days, we were using CRM-guided CT scans to inject um procaine and whatnot into spaces or stelic ganglions, which were basically doing at a much more invasive level what you're describing, which was to block block or disrupt that that that cycle and sort of re-reirate.
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:44.000
So knowing that we have these less invasive, way less, you know, um problematic tools to use is so so remarkable to me.
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:53.359
And I think you hit the you know the the nail on the head in that in this country, in the United States specifically, we're the only country that's losing longevity.
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:54.000
Never mind.
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:56.240
Oh, yeah, we're we're we're going backwards.
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:57.039
Exactly.
00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:58.400
I've a I've a pain.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:13.759
What you're talking about pain of either pain of an accidental overdose or an intentional overdose, and the pain of hum being a human on this planet is often creates physical pain, not just emotional pain.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:14.559
And so what Dr.
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:22.400
Beth is talking about here is really a tool for humanity's current crisis, which the scientists are calling the era of despair.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.359
So, is there anything you'd add to that discussion?
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:30.000
I I the thing that really did it for me, and I you'll read my second book.
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:57.039
In my last chapter of my second book, I had another angelic intervention, and I was kind of told by the by the tribunal of spiritual beings that I would be introduced to a frequency technology that not only would treat and bring the body back into alignment with frequency, but could also basically um rebuild and remodel and regenerate tissue.
00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:04.000
And so when I read some of the papers from Italy that Ann shared with me with Dr.
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:11.759
Alberta Garoli, they were able to regenerate a femoral head of a person that had avascular necrosis with 12 weeks of ICR.
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:16.000
And so that got that got my attention because I'm like, okay, I'm supposed to pay attention.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:24.720
It's because of that that channeling in 2019 that I got involved with the pain patch, that I've been doing the transcranial, that I've been doing the transcutaneous vagus stuff.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:31.039
And then Anna Alberto came in January, so just like you know, eight weeks after I met her with you.
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:39.599
And that first day in the office, before we even did our training, I had a nurse who was suffering with chronic regional pain syndrome, CRPS.
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:43.119
She was on uh narcotics and anxiolytics.
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:47.200
She couldn't even hug, she couldn't touch because her body was so inflamed.
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:56.960
And after I figured out what I had to do with her breast stuff, I went to Ann and Alberto and I said, Listen, this lady is in so much pain, like I can't even get near her.
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:02.480
So I said, How about I bring her down the hallway and you guys give her a go?
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:04.240
Because what have we got to lose?
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:04.799
Wow.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:10.799
Literally, after 36 minutes, she hopped off the mat, she hugged me for the first time.
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:13.039
She was able to, we she's weaned off her bed.
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:17.359
She was just in today for a little tune-up, but it's changed her life.
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.279
And it was that day that I said, All right, I'm all in.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.920
Like, I've got to help you guys bring this to the masses.
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:32.640
I I don't even know that you've experienced it yet, Nation, but you need to because Anne, Anna and Alberto are they're very passionate about this.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:37.440
It's a beautiful wellness technology for the U.S.
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:44.319
But we're gonna do some critical studies because someday I could see this getting through the FDA for certain indications.
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:52.240
And I'm really excited to be part of it because I I've always wanted to be part of the solution and not stay part of the problem.
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:56.000
Which again, this speaks volumes about your history.
00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:59.759
I mean, everyone's hearing this theme that has come through that Dr.
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:03.680
Beth sees an opportunity and pivots.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.799
You know, you have I didn't have time to do that.
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:11.039
I believe me, I did not have time to add one more thing to my plate.
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:24.880
But when the universe brings something in front of you and it's legitimate and it's life-changing and it's game-changing, if you don't pay attention, you know, the universe is gonna smack you and make you pay attention later.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:26.880
So um I was all in.
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:29.680
Oh my gosh, so big.
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:38.720
You know, you alluded to in the beginning of the work that you do now is no more sort of the you're moving further away from the triage place and moving more into survivorship work.
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:44.160
And so this is the part, like you mentioned, we ring the bell and we're told that that's the end of the story.
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:45.839
And I love how you call it the cliff.
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:51.920
Like you're now walking people to that, you're walking people away from the cliff or to the cliff, depending on the way you want to look at it.
00:29:52.160 --> 00:30:04.000
But that is such a critical piece because survivorship is probably one of the least supported aspects of people in healthcare, in my personal opinion.
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:10.079
And so you stepped back from that operating room sort of triage space to go deeper into survivorship.
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:29.119
And the, which is, I would say, is probably the loneliest stretch of highway for someone coming off of this journey, you know, and it's like the treatment ends, everyone else around you is exhaling, all of the support that rushed around you while you're going through treatment, you know, is gone and you're just left there way more vulnerable than ever.
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:32.640
So you are helping people start to understand their capacity.
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:37.519
You're helping people understand that there is no specified finish line.
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:50.559
So, can you talk to us about what does real survivorship ask of a person and what does it ask of us, the clinician, that we may be deaf to at this moment?
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:57.359
I think clinicians need to recognize that survivorship has to begin a diagnosis.
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:10.799
Patients have to be brought into the fold of survivorship, knowing that they have to do the hard work for treatment, but that survivorship, it's the little changes that they make along the way.
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:18.000
We're doing a we're actually going to be having my foundation open a survivorship clinic down the street from my office.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:28.160
We have one little room in my office right now, but we need bigger spaces because the clinical trial we did with the mind vibe, the non-invasive vegastem, our data is amazing.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:29.920
And I need to be able to offer that to more people.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:37.680
So I need more rooms and I need more chairs and more places because now that I've done the research, once you know you can't unknow it, and you've got to be able to provide it.
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:53.599
So making sure that we as clinicians are always looking for opportunities to inspire our patients to live their authentic, best, healthy life and supporting them in any way we can.
00:31:53.759 --> 00:32:09.039
It's hard enough to go through cancer, but it's even harder when you're living with chronic pain or a deformity of a breast or lack of um sexual function or a dry vagina, um, something as simple as sex and intimacy.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:13.279
Like we should be focusing on that, not avoiding those conversations.
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:18.240
And so I, you know, I don't ever have to do another operation again as long as I live.
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:30.480
But I'm not done focusing on survivorship because when we get really good at helping our patients with survivorship after cancer, we will then unlock the keys to preventing cancer overall.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:39.440
Because if we were doing these things to begin with, there's no need to get the cancer to wake you up to figure out how to live your best life.
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:40.400
I love this.
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:47.759
You know, I wrote a blog recently or in my Substack about the concept that there are so many people that are so terrified of dying that they simply are.
00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:48.799
They don't live.
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:49.440
They don't live.
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:51.920
Yeah, it's Tibetan book of living and dying.
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:53.039
That's what it's all about.
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:59.680
It's if you if you live your life afraid of living, you've I mean, I grab the brass ring every time I turn around.
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:07.440
You know, I told you, I'm I'm flying to Charlotte to help my kids get settled in a new home to prepare for their twins.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:08.880
I want to be here with my kids.
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:10.400
I want to be here for my kids.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:30.480
I want them to know that I'm doing what my parents did for me, which was they may not have all my parents may not have had all the money in the world, but they had time and energy to put into making sure that I and my husband were able to, you know, provide a safe, stable home, provide good food for our kids.
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:35.519
We the family unit has been so undervalued in our society.
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:37.519
Moms have been devalued.
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:48.319
You know, helping my you know daughter-in-law be successful at breastfeeding this year has been, it's one of my greatest accomplishments in the last 14 months because she really had a tough time at the beginning.
00:33:48.400 --> 00:34:00.400
And I'm hoping that my other daughter-in-law, who's about to deliver twins, it's not gonna be easy to breastfeed twins, but damn it, we're gonna make it happen and we are gonna be successful if that is what she's called to do and she really wants to try this.
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:05.599
Yeah, I need to be there to give her all of my energy in that time.
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:17.679
And so I may take a step back from my survivorship stuff for six months, but that's six months that I'm gonna be investing in my beautiful grandsons as they, you know, are born and develop.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:18.639
I love this.
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.079
And you know, you speak so much.
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:22.000
I mean, this is really about community, right?
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:28.239
And it is where we've left um our modern day parenting is very much also in a silo and very left alone.
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:42.960
And so what a gift that you are tending the terrain of the family unit in a way that was also almost a bygone era of these relational, tribal, communal ways that we all actually raise children from for millennia.
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:45.280
So I love that you're bringing that full circle.
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:56.079
And though you may step off the stage, if you will, of very direct survivorship care, you are ensuring the next generation has a fighting chance, which I think is really remarkable.
00:34:56.320 --> 00:35:33.519
And so it's been one of it's been one of the greatest gifts I've gotten from my plant medicine, my plant medicine training, because in the my instructor slash psychologist, slash shaman in Mexico who trained me, learning from the indigenous culture about the value of every generation and the time and energy that you put into your children and into your grandchildren is that is the timeless investment in the world because it's the unspoken language of love, of connection, of community.
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:52.000
And I think that we need to rekindle this and make and bring this up to the forefront because our world's so divided that if you don't have a solid family to start with, then how do you go out and you know walk through the world of crazy every day?
00:35:52.320 --> 00:36:16.639
Yeah, I I think that's so important to illustrate the importance of this, of this part of how we contend our own terrains and that of the community around us is if you didn't come from a really strong foundation of support, like you talked about those adverse childhood event scores, those elevated scores, you can certainly create your chosen family.
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:25.199
You can find community and other ways or be part of or create, you know, or a creator of community in a more thoughtful and intentional way.
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:27.280
And so, Beth, I love that you brought that up.
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:34.000
In closing, I've been asking all my guests, and I'd love to ask you this: what are you currently doing?
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:41.679
And maybe you've already touched on a lot of it in our talk today, but what are you currently tending to in your own terrain?
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:54.719
I have spent several years tending to my psychosocial emotional terrain through plant medicine, through many of the different modalities that I'm working to bring to the world.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:02.079
But over the last two years, I have really focused on my physical well-being.
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:06.719
I found out I had osteopenia two years ago, which was a surprise to me.
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:11.599
But I have been rucking with 21 pounds on my back three times a week.
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:16.559
I'm lifting weights, I'm doing my calcium, my vitamin D3, K2.
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:22.239
Um, I was on hormone replacement for a short period of time until I found out I probably shouldn't have been.
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:29.519
And I am planning to have a normal bone density after my ICR treatments in the next few months.
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:42.960
And the reason that that is so important to me is I have a buttload of grandbabies coming, and I need to be able to be crawling on the ground, playing with them, swinging, jumping, hiking, swimming, doing everything else.
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:52.079
So, my terrain right now that's the most important that my soul resides in is this physical body, which doesn't need to act old at all.
00:37:52.159 --> 00:38:00.880
It gets to stay young because I'm treating it as it is young, and it's going to stay healthy so that I get to be the best Baba ever, because that's what I'm going by, Baba.
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:06.000
This is the best, and I got chills.
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.800
That's one of my favorite responses yet, Dr.
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:09.199
Beth.
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:18.960
And hopefully it's a motivation, whether you are, you know, someone well before your years of conception or well beyond, or chose to never conceive.
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:35.920
Like in my world, I have 39 nieces and nephews, nine great nieces and nephews, four godchildren, two great godchildren, and I want to be around long enough and strong enough to basically kick their butts up and down, rucking up mountainsides into my elder years as well.
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:37.920
Oh, I love this, Dr.
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:38.559
Beth.
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:52.800
You are a force to be reckoned with, and I am so grateful our paths, after all these years, have finally connected, and that there's so many little like spokes coming off the central hub of this that our paths will continue to cross, I'm sure, over and over.
00:38:52.880 --> 00:39:08.559
And I cannot wait to see what you and Anne are coming out with and what you're doing with the pain support and the survivorship work, but most importantly, the work you're doing for your own body so that you can steward the next generations um into being.
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:10.400
So thank you for being with us today.
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:14.320
Thanks for the opportunity, and uh, we've only just begun, my friend.
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:16.559
That was Dr.
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:29.679
Beth Dupree, a surgeon who spent a career proving she could hold the scalpel with the best of them, and then spent the rest of it proving that the deepest healing begins where the cutting ends.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:43.199
What stays with me is her refusal to choose precision and presence, science and soul, the hands that operate, and the hands that simply rest and listen.
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:48.559
Her books are the healing consciousness and shifting gears.
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:52.400
And the foundation she built carries that work forward.
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:54.079
Go find her.
00:39:54.400 --> 00:40:04.800
And if you're somewhere in the after right now, the part no one prepared you for, let her remind you that healing was never something done to you.
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:08.480
It's something still waking up inside you.
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:13.920
Thanks for tending the terrain with me today.
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:17.840
Whatever stirred in you, don't rush past it.
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:19.360
Let it compost.
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:24.559
Because when we tend the terrain, life knows what to do.
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:27.440
See you in our next conversation.
