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00:00:07.793Welcome to today's episode of Temple Bound.
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00:00:16.111Our guest is Dennis Deaton, who is currently a stake patriarch, but has also served as a business coach for multiple companies over the last number of decades.
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00:00:22.679He is a multiple times published author of books both in and outside of church doctrine.
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00:00:26.902His most recent book is called Looking Into Christ With Every Thought.
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00:00:33.545This book has changed my life in a massive way and I was so excited that he agreed to be on the show.
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00:00:50.554This was very validating for me personally that we were doing the right things with Templebound when he agreed to be on the show, because what he is going to explain and unravel is this war that we wage every day between our ears, the thoughts that we face and hear and feel.
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00:01:07.174This is going to be a transformative two-episode podcast, so we'll have part one today and then we'll do part two next week, but please tune in and make sure you have a pen and paper ready, because you're going to want to take notes through the various things that he highlights in this particular podcast.
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00:01:10.087Again, I'm so excited for you guys to be listening to this.
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00:01:10.728Enjoy the show.
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00:01:12.706Dennis, welcome to the show.
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00:01:17.522I am so honored Honored is the word To have you when you said yes to this.
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00:01:24.034I want you to know it was deeply validating that I was on the right path to do this show Really.
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00:01:30.272Yes, I won't use this time to tell the world how much I love you, but I will say this.
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00:01:51.046There was a question that entered my mind that I was really excited to get to with you, because your book Looking Unto Christ and Every Thought has changed my life, and there's chapters in that book that I believe every member of the church must read, because it objectively spells out the role of the adversary in our minds.
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00:02:10.664And the thought here was the question I had for you, setting the question up when I am going to the temple, when I've made a commitment to go to the temple and I've said, okay, I'm going Thursday at four, whatever that is, I can predictably know that life is going to get harder around Thursday at four.
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00:02:16.504I can predictably know, and at first it really just showed up like coincidental.
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00:02:24.805That's what you thought, yes, and then over time it was like over and over again, where it's like I mean, honestly, rarely do I get ready for the temple.
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00:02:31.069Earlier on, when I would actually want to go, I'd be getting ready to go to the temple, but it was always like pushing through something.
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00:02:33.930Can you talk about where that comes from, from your experience?
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00:02:35.825Yeah, it's really the heart of my book.
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00:02:41.611It's one of the reasons, I think, that Heavenly Father inspired me to write it.
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00:02:43.443Heavenly Father inspired me to write it.
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00:02:59.950You talked about this resistance before you know, keeping a commitment, keeping a cabinet, even a small task, even a promise to yourself that you're going to call one of your ministering families or something like that, or go visit them, and you're likely to have some impediments, or little things come in your life.
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00:03:10.492Well, maybe I really need to take care of that, or this isn't going to allow me to be there when I wanted to be there, when I wanted to be, and so forth, and we think at that moment that it just happens to be coincidental.
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00:03:14.711But if you step back and look at your life, you're going to see that it's a pattern.
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00:03:36.282Anytime that you're going to be engaged in doing Heavenly Father's work, especially if it involves the impact on another person or a group, you're going to have some resistance and it's key that you understand that it's not just a random thought coming in your mind that you need to delay or postpone.
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00:03:52.472It's coming from the enemy of your soul In the Book of Mormon, in the Book of Moroni and thank goodness that he kept dodging the warriors that were trying to destroy him back at the destruction of his people.
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00:03:59.221Because there's three final addresses by Moroni in the Book of Mormon, because he just keeps living there.
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00:04:00.925Well, I guess we'll add something else.
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00:04:19.877I'm so glad he lived for this third and final section, which is essentially the Book of Moroni, and in chapter seven there's a place where he talks about that the adversary is continually working upon you and that the Spirit is continually working on you.
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00:04:47.642There's two verses in which the word continually is there three times, and so we, as Latter-day Saints, have a pretty clear understanding that if we get an impulse in our mind to go embezzle or to steal, rob or commit adultery or something like that, we immediately recognize oh, that's coming from the adversary, and most of us that are card-carrying recommend holding members of the church.
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00:04:49.769Dodge those, we reject them.
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00:04:57.043It's, however, just the tip of the iceberg, those larger sins.
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00:05:12.033He's constantly playing with our thoughts, meddling, trying to undermine positive things that come into our mind from the Spirit and also trying to just tear our own confidence.
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00:05:24.706One of the most beautiful and powerful scriptures in the Doctrine and Covenants talks about if you'll love your fellow man and if you'll garnish your thoughts unceasingly with virtue.
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00:05:29.954And if you'll garnish your thoughts unceasingly with virtue, then shall your confidence wax strong in the presence of God.
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00:05:37.324And the benefits of that are then enumerated, and they're just stunning.
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00:05:48.444You're going to have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost, you'll have a scepter of righteousness and a kingdom that will flow into you without compulsory means, forever and ever.
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00:06:00.560So our confidence before the Lord has to be based on love and righteousness, and when we're doing our best to do that, we don't have to be perfect.
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00:06:03.928We will be in tune with Him and we'll get impressions.
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00:06:05.072And how do they come to us?
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00:06:07.125They come to us, thoughts in our mind.
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00:06:16.327Mosiah 3.19 says that the natural man's an enemy to God and he will be forever and ever unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit.
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00:06:18.442And how do those enticings come?
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00:06:20.444They just are impressions in our mind.
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00:06:32.807And the great counterfeiter, the enemy of our soul, lucifer and his minions, are using the very same methodology.
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00:06:47.108And often, when you do get a positive thought, something that you could do to be generous in helping other people, then you'll get something coming like oh, you're kind of busy, or this is coming up, or you do this first and then you can do that.
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00:06:52.764I think there's a great classic story of that that was spoken in conference.
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00:06:55.050It still comes to my mind at this moment about that.
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00:07:00.733There was Sister Tanner, I think she was either the president of the Young Women's or the Relief Society.
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00:07:28.589She told the story about her good friend who lived pretty close to President Kimball and was in his ward and she happened to notice when he's the prophet, he comes to church one day and he's got a new suit on, and her husband had been traveling in Asia and had come home with some wonderful silk material and the impulse came to her mind that she should take some of that and create a tie that would go with that suit.
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00:07:30.747And so she does that.
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00:07:35.432She does her masterful job of creating this beautiful tie.
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00:07:55.625I'm sure I picture her having it in some kind of a wrapped box with a ribbon on it perhaps, and she goes over to the Kimball's home and hops up onto the porch there and goes to ring the doorbell and at that moment this thought comes into her mind who do you think you are?
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00:07:57.867This is the prophet of the Lord.
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00:08:03.264You can't this idea that you're going to, you know, present him with a tie.
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00:08:05.069It's ridiculous, you're going to make a fool out of yourself.
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00:08:05.521You're going to, you know, presenting with a tie.
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00:08:08.086It's ridiculous, you're going to make a fool of yourself, you're going to embarrass yourself.
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00:08:27.932And so she pivots right there and she's about to go down the steps and apparently Camilla sees her coming up and then sees her retreating and she comes to the front door and says and I think the lady's name that made the tie, her name, was Susan says Susan, what are you here?
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00:08:28.894What's on your mind?
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00:08:40.847And then she goes on and confesses that she'd seen this new suit and had created a tie and was gonna present it to the prophet and then started getting cold feet about and thinking that it was foolish.
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00:08:44.244And Sister Kimball said it was foolish.
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00:08:50.094And Sister Kimball said Susan never resist or forego a generous thought.
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00:09:06.936So we're always getting impulses to do good and then immediately the adversary will start to override it, reason with us, quote, unquote to get us to back out of it, postpone it, delay it.
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00:09:12.010There's so much power in the recognition of where it's coming from.
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00:09:17.052Yes, if you don't know that it's come from Satan, then you think it's your own thought.
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00:09:19.889And this is his most insidious ploy.
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00:09:28.053He plants thoughts so gently, so repeatedly, that we become so accustomed to them that we think they are our own thoughts.
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00:09:39.695And then when we think, one of those thoughts and he is double-wavy is then he starts berating us, or getting us to berate ourselves for thinking a thought that isn't our thought, that he planted there.
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00:09:44.993So he's got this double-barreled tactic and he's playing it on us all the time.
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00:09:51.293And so if we are fighting the wrong foe, we're not going to win the war.
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00:09:57.932And unfortunately, too many of us are going through life taking responsibility for those negative thoughts.
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00:10:03.932And then it's weighing us down in every aspect of our life emotionally, spiritually.
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00:10:15.522I think it has an impact on our physiology, my background's in medicine, and so that's always kind of a key element that comes into my mind.
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00:10:30.571And so any thought that starts tearing you down, undermining your confidence that the plan of God and the atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ will work for everybody else but it won't work for you, or you become critical.
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00:10:35.191Just out of the blue, somebody walks into church and says, saying no, I'm happy to see them there.
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00:10:36.941They'll say, well, why are they wearing that dress?
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00:10:38.982Or that's a dumb tie?
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00:10:53.216And we keep going on with that and even as just as seemingly minuscule as that thought, that negative thought towards somebody else, we don't recognize.
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00:10:54.876That's not coming from us.
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00:11:00.373It's the whispering of the evil one.
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00:11:05.287And we came from this realm of pure love.
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00:11:10.361We loved each other there, we love each other here almost naturally.
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00:11:23.785But when we get down in here in mortality, with this intervening voice, we start going into all sorts of habitual states of mind, because once we get in the habit of doing that, it just becomes more easy for us to fall prey to it.
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00:11:24.567Absolutely.
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00:11:40.929You know, I think, dennis, that the way I imagined it after, you know, really reading through your book and then praying on things is that thoughts are like cars on a freeway, and I think we think that every thought that comes through is definitively us.
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00:11:42.393And why wouldn't we?
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00:11:55.883We're in this mortal state where, like thoughts pop into our head and, like you said, this double barrel approach, using that same analogy of a judgment of another person, which snap judgments, the adversary loves to use them and so when someone comes in, we have that judgment.
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00:12:02.261I love how you point out his tactic of oh, why would he wear that tie or whatever?
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00:12:04.066Or he's not wearing a tie or whatever.
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00:12:07.211And then, immediately behind that is well, who are you to?
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00:12:08.553You know this like shaming.
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00:12:10.024Oh, you're judgmental.
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00:12:12.424Yeah, versus recognizing.
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00:12:14.410Oh, that was the adversary.
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00:12:24.602You said something in the book that really empowered me in a way that I can't tell you how grateful I am, because when those thoughts came in, I always thought like I was like trying to push them away.
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00:12:28.645What I realize is it's more of like a bull on a cape.
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00:12:30.447I'm like, oh, I see it coming.
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00:12:48.501That's not me and I let it go through and once I recognize it as the adversary and I label it and I'm immune to feeling the shame of having had that thought, because it's immediately like, oh, that's okay, that's not me.
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00:12:55.447And then I think immediately we'll talk about some other things, hopefully on the podcast, about what do we do after that to help like even reinforce, against that, because there's a way to just like not be owned by those thoughts.
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00:13:00.123But there's another way to actually repel the adversary that you talk about later in the book.
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00:13:00.783That we'll get to.
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00:13:11.884But for now I just want to say that concept of any desire we have to do evil of any kind in our mind, the Babylon that we have in our heads, it's not coming from us, it's coming from the adversary.
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00:13:24.710And if we can choose to chase the thought though I can chase that car and then it leads me down more insidious paths, and then actions, and then habits, and it definitively starts shaping who I am.
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00:13:25.491At that point right.
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00:13:39.087Yeah, yeah, one of the key doctrines that was left to us from the legacy of the prophet Joseph Smith is he was in his mortal ministry.
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00:13:45.770There were many times when he told the saints he was withheld from being able to share more light and knowledge with them because they weren't ready.
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00:13:52.820But as he starts to get a sense I don't know if he knew the day or the hour, I don't know if he knew it was going to be June 27th 1844.
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00:14:02.307But I think by late 1842, he's got the sense that he's not going to be here much longer and he starts pulling back the veil.
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00:14:14.690And he starts pulling back the veil and in late 43 and early 44, he's laying forth some of the most beautiful and powerful doctrines and thank goodness that Heavenly Father allowed him to do that.
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00:14:22.736In the King Paulette Discourse he teaches us that we are an independent, self-governing entity that has always existed.
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00:14:27.263Joseph used the word co-eternal.
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00:14:33.301Joseph Fielding Smith who compiled Joseph's talks and put it into a book called the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
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00:14:45.254He kind of clarified that by saying Joseph said co-equal in his statement and Joseph Fielding Smith corrects it to be called eternal.
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00:15:01.197And the idea is that and it's confirmed in this, in the Doctrine and Covenants as well, that this doctrine entity that we call the, me inside the, I go to sleep and you're talking to me.
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00:15:12.407We recognize that as being independent and individual from every other particle of matter or distance anywhere in the universe.
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00:15:21.677We recognize this entity of self and its primary essence is thinking.
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00:15:22.719It's the thinking.
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00:15:27.812Descartes, the great French philosopher, said I think, therefore I am.
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00:15:31.448He recognized that the very essence of the self is this thinking entity.
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00:15:34.674So we have the ability to generate thoughts.
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00:15:38.171We also have the ability to analyze them.
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00:15:43.870We can think about our thinking right in the process of thinking it and we can change it anytime we want.
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00:15:47.511And so I loved your Matador analogy.
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00:15:58.669When Lucifer comes at you and he hits on you and you recognize, okay, he wants me to be upset with his driver in front of me, you know, and you let him just go pass by, I like to say, nice, try, satan.
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00:15:59.952But I'm not going there.
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00:16:13.585You know, and you know people will think that I'm maybe needing a couple of professional therapists, but I talk out loud to him a lot, especially when I'm alone.
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00:16:15.785He'll come at me about the choices I'm making, about how I'm spending my time and so forth.
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00:16:20.470It's about the choices I'm making, about how I'm spending my time, and so forth.
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00:16:21.750Well, it's.
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00:16:27.774Externalizing the influence is how you put it in the book and the way that you compared it.
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00:16:34.918Which I think is really important for the listeners is that this is not something that isn't just useful for us in our belief structure.
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00:16:39.942It's a matter of understanding that this is commonly used in addictive behavior recovery as well.
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00:16:49.486You referred to a book that I can't remember the name of the book, but it was about an eating disorder and so they would call it ED Life Without ED, life Without ED.
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00:17:02.389Ed stood for eating disorder and can you talk a little bit about how that book uses externalization of the negative influences to help people recognize that they can think about their thinking and have choice in the matter?
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00:17:19.847Yeah, in successful recovery of eating disorders, the therapist will get the individual to recognize there's times when what's coming out of their mouth isn't their own thoughts or thinking and they'll actually say now, is that Ed talking or is that you?
00:17:19.847 -->
00:17:25.194And we need to kind of take that same idea.
00:17:25.194 -->
00:17:38.431And again, the key of it is is this is not a technique, it's not a way to think more positively.
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00:17:40.038It's the actual war in heaven that we're still fighting here.
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00:17:40.902It's only going on in our head.
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00:17:55.106We have an adversary that is so jealous of us that we have a body and we have this opportunity to progress, that he's trying to make us miserable in any way he can, and some of it almost gets to be comical, but some of it is so.
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00:18:05.873If we don't catch on to it and we keep succumbing to this ploy, if we don't catch on to it and we keep succumbing to this ploy, it can become emotionally, physically and spiritually lethal.
00:18:05.873 -->
00:18:08.213But let me just give you a simple example.
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00:18:11.096Sure, I started noticing that a lot of times.
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00:18:21.520I'd just be having a great day, I might have the family in the car, we're going to go on a little trip, a little picnic or something, and all the bills are paid and it just seems like life's all.
00:18:21.520 -->
00:18:24.663I got it all together, you know, and I'm feeling pretty good.
00:18:24.663 -->
00:18:46.396And just out of the blue then would come something, a memory from the past, maybe an investment that went under, or a time I embarrassed myself, or a time that I made a major faux pas, you know, committed a sin or offended somebody and you know, and that put this damper cloud on that moment.
00:18:46.396 -->
00:18:48.809But I started noticing again.
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00:18:49.673It's a pattern.
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00:19:08.288I thought at first it was probably just some random function of my memory to just toss something in from the past, but I started noticing there was never a time when I did something good, you know, when I was a dentist and performed some pro bono work or I helped somebody in a situation.
00:19:08.769 -->
00:19:18.634It's always something that's embarrassing or something that you regret, to just kind of stir up the negative chemistry in your body and dampen your spirits.
00:19:18.634 -->
00:19:28.737And it goes back to this fundamental thought that he is a miserable being and he's dead set on making all of us miserable.
00:19:28.737 -->
00:19:35.346And so even when you're having a good day, you'll have this kind of negative thought that'll come completely out of the blue.
00:19:35.346 -->
00:19:37.130And that's another time.
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00:19:40.135I'll just say, nice, try, but I'm not going there.
00:19:40.135 -->
00:19:41.057We're having a great day.
00:19:41.057 -->
00:19:42.570Hey kids, you want to sing?
00:19:42.570 -->
00:19:44.070Let's sing a primary song.
00:19:46.266 -->
00:19:52.549It's so true and it always just feels you know, there's that scripture that there will be opposition in all things.
00:19:53.424 -->
00:19:54.186I think, there's.
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00:20:21.987I don't think we recognize that the opposition is part of this mental experience of living, that no matter what's going on, even if the Lord has aboundantly blessed us and we see all the blessings, which is the whole technique as well, that we can talk about that, when we are in that space of joy and the Spirit comes and totally removes the adversary from our lives, you can count on it, like the sky is blue, that he's going to come as quickly as he can to try to bring us back down.
00:20:21.987 -->
00:20:23.471And so that's part of that.
00:20:23.471 -->
00:20:35.451Opposition in all things is that you know there's going to be a mental resistance in every area of our life and he can really, if we choose, to chase those cars, those thoughts, then it really works.
00:20:35.451 -->
00:20:37.695I can speak from personal experience.
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00:20:39.385How many times that's happened to me.
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00:20:40.166Yeah.
00:20:40.166 -->
00:20:49.040So this intelligence of spirit is the way Joseph ultimately as in that King Paulette discourse he's actually, you can see, struggling to come up with a vocabulary.
00:20:49.040 -->
00:20:52.932It's one thing to receive light and knowledge, it's another to be able to express it in your language.
00:20:52.932 -->
00:20:59.832And Joseph talks about the mind of man, then he tells the soul of man, then he calls it intelligence, then he calls it the intelligence of spirit.
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00:21:19.897Anyway, this thinker of thoughts has the ability to make choices of what it's going to dwell on, and the key that I think each of us need to have in our life is that we're always the chooser, no matter what the predicament or circumstance or event might be.
00:21:19.897 -->
00:21:38.471We get to decide how we're going to interpret that and when we give it meaning, then it starts having influence on physiology of our body, our emotions, and then the emotions lead to some kind of a behavior, and then the behavior leads to our results and so forth.
00:21:38.471 -->
00:21:45.532So we need to be very cognizant of what we allow our minds to dwell on.
00:21:45.532 -->
00:21:58.798I loved teaching of Neal A Maxwell when he taught us that we are responsible for the duration and intensity of our temptations.
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00:22:06.776And this is back before I started catching on to this whole idea of how prevalent Lucifer is meddling with our thoughts.
00:22:06.776 -->
00:22:11.557So I just I was really struck with that idea and now I really get it.
00:22:11.557 -->
00:22:18.917See if I have made a commitment, say it's just an earthly goal, like I'm going to eliminate sugar as much as I can for my life.
00:22:20.385 -->
00:22:23.855When I get a lot of sugar, my immune system goes down, I get a cold or a flu.
00:22:23.855 -->
00:22:31.736I've got an upcoming seminar or a podcast with Will Humphries and I want to be at my best, so I want to be avoiding the sugar.
00:22:31.736 -->
00:22:42.650That won't prevent me, as I'm driving down the street, to see a Dairy Queen billboard over here to the side and everybody's seen it.
00:22:42.650 -->
00:22:47.957It's got three amazingly adorned sundaes.
00:22:47.957 -->
00:23:02.126Yes, it's got that creamy, white, soft ice cream that goes up to some little curlicue at the top, but then one of them's doused in strawberry and one of them's in caramel, and that's the one that gets to me, and then one's in chocolate, one's doused in strawberry and one of them's in caramel that's the one that gets to me, and then one's in chocolate.
00:23:02.126 -->
00:23:06.070And we can't stop that impression coming into us.
00:23:06.070 -->
00:23:20.867But if we recognize that we get to decide how long we stay with it, what we do with it, then we're still in the driver's seat, and so if I say, oh, I know where you want to go with this, I'm not going to go.
00:23:20.907 -->
00:23:22.251I've noticed that there's an exit.
00:23:22.251 -->
00:23:23.335It says exit 14.
00:23:23.335 -->
00:23:25.911I'm not going over there.
00:23:25.911 -->
00:23:27.691I'm not going to fall for this.
00:23:27.691 -->
00:23:29.952I've got these important things coming up.
00:23:29.952 -->
00:23:36.317I can't afford to be not at my best, I'm going to keep my commitment to avoid sugar.
00:23:36.317 -->
00:23:42.788In fact, I think probably I'll start dwelling on what I want to be teaching at that moment, and so I start putting my mind there.
00:23:42.788 -->
00:23:43.671Immediately.
00:23:43.671 -->
00:23:46.518The temptation is quenched, yes.
00:23:46.518 -->
00:23:55.265However, if I should just kind of linger, Turn your head as you're passing.
00:23:55.625 -->
00:24:06.621Yeah, turn your head and pass it and going by and you're actually thinking of that, how that soft, creamy ice cream, and you can almost taste the caramel going down your throat.
00:24:06.621 -->
00:24:18.479You have now increased the duration and intensity of your temptation, and Elder Maxwell's thought, just you know, just comes vividly to fruition there.
00:24:18.479 -->
00:24:22.415And so again we get to decide how long we dwell on any thought.
00:24:22.415 -->
00:24:27.275So any thought that comes that's inappropriate is not your responsibility.
00:24:27.275 -->
00:24:31.750A temptation or an impulse like that does not make you unclean.
00:24:32.112 -->
00:24:44.717That was the biggest thing, if I can jump in real quick, because what I saw and I'm getting chills thinking about this is that I used to quietly suffer through these different experiences, like if people only knew the thoughts I could have right, kind of thing.
00:24:44.717 -->
00:24:57.787Yeah, now, after understanding the source of it and being able to externalize it as an adversarial impression, I am able to see it for what it really is yes, an opportunity, and that's the thing.
00:24:57.787 -->
00:25:10.615So, beforehand, whereas something negative would come in or a bad memory of a past or something tempting me in a transgression kind of way, I look at it now and I go this is what it's outside, it's not me.
00:25:11.215 -->
00:25:11.958Number one that's not me.
00:25:11.958 -->
00:25:14.971Number two this is my choice.
00:25:14.971 -->
00:25:18.336And then number three this is my opportunity to go.
00:25:18.336 -->
00:25:19.586Oh, this isn't me.
00:25:19.586 -->
00:25:26.473And like you said in the book, it's the opposite, because when we resist that thought by identifying it and labeling it, we actually go closer to the Savior.
00:25:26.473 -->
00:25:36.586So it's funny when we see that scripture that is the title of your book look unto me in every thought we just kind of I think there's an initial reaction to discard it, like well, I'll try my best to think about it as much as I can.
00:25:36.586 -->
00:25:42.971I don't think we recognize it's referring to the daily battle of these thoughts coming in and as these evil thoughts enter our hearts and minds.
00:25:42.971 -->
00:25:45.413We can well our minds, we can choose it.
00:25:45.413 -->
00:25:47.855Let it enter our heart or we can go.
00:25:47.855 -->
00:25:49.396That's not for me.
00:25:49.396 -->
00:25:54.260And then in that moment we actually draw closer to Christ because of that negative thought.
00:25:55.001 -->
00:25:56.041Isn't that powerful.
00:25:56.041 -->
00:26:05.867Yeah, some people say do you ever get the point where you just override him and I say I don't want to, I don't want to, because every time he comes at me and I resist it?
00:26:05.867 -->
00:26:12.819Thank goodness, thank God for the Book of Mormon and thank God for Lehi's testimony being captured.
00:26:12.819 -->
00:26:18.017You know I'm so glad those 116 pages got lost, you know, because we wouldn't have this.
00:26:18.017 -->
00:26:25.015But Lehi spells out that the only way there that can be righteousness is if there's an alternative to do evil.
00:26:25.015 -->
00:26:26.645There has to be an opposite.
00:26:26.645 -->
00:26:42.546And if you resist righteousness by definition as being ticed to do something that would be inappropriate or evil and to choose not to, and every time you do that you get an influx of the Holy Spirit, the light of Christ.
00:26:42.546 -->
00:26:50.997So thus you're actually literally a more spiritual being and have greater power to recognize Satan on the next time and to resist him the next time.
00:26:50.997 -->
00:26:55.170And every time we play along with this game, lose light.
00:26:55.170 -->
00:26:57.635We actually feel it.
00:26:58.237 -->
00:27:12.277A lot of what we call and I'm not saying there's not clinical depression, and I come from a medical background and I know that that's a reality and thank goodness that there's medications and that there's therapists that can deal with that.
00:27:12.277 -->
00:27:21.631But a lot of thoughts that depress us, take our energy away from us, are because we have not resisted, we dwelt on it.
00:27:21.631 -->
00:27:31.298Even if we don't go forward and act on it, just the dwelling on it can start to repel a little bit of the spirit.
00:27:31.298 -->
00:27:51.796But immediately, if you recognize no, I'm not going there, just like you said, you did gain light Right and we're coming up with some great abilities to measure ourselves in this generation, with all the technology you know AI and everything that's coming out, I think we might see in our lifetime Will when we can actually measure the influx of spirit.
00:27:51.796 -->
00:27:54.830We might have a measure Because it's matter.
00:27:55.105 -->
00:28:05.270It has to have some kind of a weight we forget that our spirits are still matter, like it's something scientifically that we could go into a discussion, but like there's an actual matter.
00:28:05.270 -->
00:28:08.273Prior to receiving a body, we had matter.
00:28:08.273 -->
00:28:17.753We consist of this intelligent state that had always existed, so, the idea being that for us we have always existed in that there is matter there.
00:28:17.753 -->
00:28:26.917So, as we are going through these temptations, our spiritual nature, what constitutes our nature, is being refined with every choice.
00:28:27.566 -->
00:28:31.593And we possess this additional dimension of spirit.
00:28:31.593 -->
00:28:38.692Again, it's called the Holy Spirit, it's called the light of Christ, it's called the glory of God.
00:28:38.692 -->
00:28:40.316Light, truth, love.
00:28:40.316 -->
00:28:42.549All of those are facets of the same diamond.
00:28:42.549 -->
00:28:44.939It's trying to describe this substance.
00:28:44.939 -->
00:28:59.588So there's a Holy Ghost, that's a being that administers this substance, so that we recognize, where we do a righteous act, that there's something that comes into us, makes us feel good.
00:28:59.588 -->
00:29:09.390When we're feeling the Spirit, we feel loving, we feel patient, we seem to be able to concentrate, we're calmer and so forth.
00:29:09.390 -->
00:29:23.419And when we lose the Spirit, we're agitated, we're down, we're morose, we feel unloved and unlovable and it's easier to start finding fault with other people and blaming them for the way we're feeling.
00:29:23.419 -->
00:29:24.980You know those kind of things.
00:29:24.980 -->
00:29:33.378But the key again is to know that we are dealing with a reality here.
00:29:33.464 -->
00:29:35.373You talked about spirit being matter.
00:29:35.373 -->
00:29:38.294It's in Section 130 of the Doctrine and Covenants.
00:29:38.294 -->
00:29:39.626It says all spirit is matter.
00:29:39.626 -->
00:29:41.830It's in section 130 of the Doctrine and Covenants.
00:29:41.830 -->
00:29:42.491It says all spirit is matter.
00:29:42.491 -->
00:29:43.594Only it's more fine and pure.
00:29:43.594 -->
00:29:46.680But when our bodies are purified we'll see that it's all matter.
00:29:46.680 -->
00:29:51.815Okay now, the fact that he says all spirit is matter.
00:29:51.815 -->
00:29:53.278It means that it comes in degrees.
00:29:53.278 -->
00:29:58.541There's grades of it, right, okay, otherwise, if it was just one quantity, it'd say spirits matter.
00:29:58.541 -->
00:30:06.892But if it's all spirits matter, then that means it comes in degrees and we talk about degrees of glory, degrees of spirit, in other words celestial kingdom, terrestrial and telestial.
00:30:06.892 -->
00:30:15.930So when you resist, let's say, a small temptation, you're going to get a small amount of glory.
00:30:15.930 -->
00:30:24.039It's proportionate to the law that it's attached to there or the gravity of the sin.
00:30:24.039 -->
00:30:36.103You resist one of those kind of temptations, you receive a greater level of light, and maybe that's getting a little too minuscule.
00:30:36.123 -->
00:30:36.684You know it's funny.
00:30:36.684 -->
00:30:40.070No, I love that you bring it up because there's so many things that we've had and we've known each other for years.
00:30:40.070 -->
00:30:52.424You and I have had the privilege of having multiple discussions on this topic, as you mentored me and took me through those different doctrinal items, through the scriptures and so on, and so I appreciate you mentioning it, because I think there's a core element.
00:30:52.424 -->
00:30:54.287You mentioned it in the beginning of your book, for example.
00:30:54.287 -->
00:31:02.616You highlight this idea that we've always existed and we've known that, but the way that you go about it now and you're discussing it is really clear.
00:31:02.616 -->
00:31:13.685A question I've always wanted to ask you, dennis, about this is that when a negative thought enters my mind, I am super empowered by recognizing its source and choosing to disobey it.
00:31:13.685 -->
00:31:15.847As you say, it's detect, disobey.
00:31:15.847 -->
00:31:18.310No, it's detect, deny, disobey.
00:31:18.310 -->
00:31:19.092Yeah, that's what it is.
00:31:19.092 -->
00:31:22.494When we have a negative thought, first we detect what it is, yeah.
00:31:22.895 -->
00:31:23.675Then we deny it.
00:31:24.220 -->
00:31:25.401Yeah, okay, that's coming from the adversary.
00:31:25.401 -->
00:31:27.122You know what I am.
00:31:27.122 -->
00:31:35.208I'm just, as you know, I'm not, maybe, as I'm trying to use the language of how I would want to say this in my thought so an example of the tie thing.
00:31:35.208 -->
00:31:41.311So the tie, oh, that's an adversarial thought that the prophet wouldn't want me to give.
00:31:41.311 -->
00:31:47.136So, denying that, no, that's not true, you wouldn't want a good gift, and then I'm disobeying it.
00:31:47.136 -->
00:31:48.397I'm going to go give this to the prophet.
00:31:48.838 -->
00:31:53.390So that disobey part you do just exactly the opposite of the temptation.
00:31:53.390 -->
00:31:54.752So it's almost a guideline for you.
00:31:54.752 -->
00:32:22.836Yeah, it's actually a challenge, like I use this one and it's something that a lot of people can relate to and it might be a little too silly for some of the brighter minds in our generation here, but often you'll get up on Sunday morning and you'll have this thought about, especially in the days when you've got kids and getting them dressed and having the battle of all of that and getting to the church.
00:32:22.836 -->
00:32:28.212But you get this impression which, from this age you know you don't need to go to church.
00:32:28.212 -->
00:32:32.183You go through all of this, you're doing better, you're not going to hear anything new.
00:32:32.183 -->
00:32:33.928You're so tired, yeah, and you're tired.
00:32:33.928 -->
00:32:34.809You're not going to hear anything new.
00:32:34.809 -->
00:32:35.992You're so tired, yeah, and you're tired.
00:32:35.992 -->
00:32:41.728You deserve a little rest and you're already doing really quite well in most of these areas anyway.
00:32:41.728 -->
00:32:44.834So he's really pumping us that way.
00:32:45.799 -->
00:32:50.771So I just say, oh, you don't want me to go to church?
00:32:50.771 -->
00:32:55.195Well, I'll tell you what I'm going to church In fact.
00:32:55.195 -->
00:32:55.853I'm not just going to church.
00:32:55.853 -->
00:32:55.827I to go to church.
00:32:55.827 -->
00:32:56.237Well, I'll tell you what I'm going to church In fact.
00:32:56.237 -->
00:32:57.480I'm not just going to church.
00:32:57.480 -->
00:33:04.287I'm going to church and when I get there I'm going to be looking for somebody that might be feeling down.
00:33:04.287 -->
00:33:10.782I just have accountants where they feel like they could use a friend and I'm going to go over and put my arm around them, literally, and I'm looking in the eye and say, how are you doing?
00:33:10.782 -->
00:33:22.650And I'm going to mean it and I'm going to listen to the answer and I'm going to empathize there and I'm going to look, you know, if there's a service project, rather than going oh good, my schedule's already blocked there, I can't go.
00:33:22.650 -->
00:33:25.811Oh yeah, I'll volunteer for that and I'll change my schedule to be there.
00:33:25.811 -->
00:33:29.413I'll look for a chance to make a good comment or bear my testimony in the Sunday school.
00:33:29.413 -->
00:33:30.555I'm going to church.
00:33:32.236 -->
00:33:34.877And immediately it deflects that influence.
00:33:34.998 -->
00:33:35.637It's the opposite.
00:33:35.637 -->
00:33:39.925It's almost like what psychologists and neuroscientists are doing now when people are feeling anxiety.
00:33:39.925 -->
00:33:48.186They're having people visualize eating an orange, like slowly peeling it back and imagining, because there's a physical response to all of that you're talking about too.
00:33:48.186 -->
00:33:58.952As healthcare providers that you and I are, that is really fascinating because immediately, not only do we no longer have that negative thought, but our physiology starts to shift and we start to get energized about going.
00:33:59.640 -->
00:34:04.673Dennis, this happens to us all the time, without even being conscious to it, because I've had that thought.
00:34:04.673 -->
00:34:08.550The biggest example for my life is the adult session for state conference.
00:34:08.550 -->
00:34:14.025For years I told my wife I would just be vocal Like I don't want to go.
00:34:14.025 -->
00:34:19.309You know it's Saturday night, you know football game on, oh easy, all those things.
00:34:19.309 -->
00:34:23.891And it was hysterical because my wife, bless her heart, has never once done that.
00:34:23.891 -->
00:34:29.380And so every time we've gone I come home I'm like I say this every six months I am so glad I went.
00:34:29.380 -->
00:34:33.387It was a game-changing, life-changing experience, but I never recognized the cycle.
00:34:33.447 -->
00:34:49.266So since then, when I have that impression, which I no longer have because it's gone away now, yeah, because I've disobeyed it strongly enough to where it's like, okay, I can't get him in that area, and now it's like I look forward to it in a way that I never.
00:34:49.266 -->
00:34:56.650That's why I think sometimes, when people are feeling like they don't want to go to the temple and they see people who are excited about it and starting podcasts about it, they go.
00:34:56.650 -->
00:34:58.891Either what do they have that I don't?
00:34:58.891 -->
00:35:00.172Or like are they weird?
00:35:00.172 -->
00:35:00.711Like what is it?
00:35:00.711 -->
00:35:15.722It's like no, it's like once we start to disobey the negative influence and we start to feel the blessings and I see the Lord's hand in my life, it's like I can't, I don't want to live without it.
00:35:15.722 -->
00:35:16.244I'm so much happier.
00:35:16.244 -->
00:35:16.563There's a joy.
00:35:16.563 -->
00:35:16.744That's.
00:35:16.744 -->
00:35:19.940The whole point of maybe even this podcast is to give them something to remember, you know, yeah.
00:35:20.202 -->
00:35:50.445You mentioned something that triggered a thought that I think is really valuable, that we could put into this conversation, and that's the technique that therapists will use to get people to quit obsessing on a thought or tearing themselves down, and they'll have them concentrate on opening an orange and smelling the fragrance that comes with the juice and the sweetness of the juice that will be there In the book we talk about.
00:35:50.485 -->
00:35:55.498There's four laws of the mind, and the first one is that you must think.
00:35:55.498 -->
00:35:57.364It goes back to the Descartes idea.
00:35:57.364 -->
00:36:02.362I think, therefore I am, and our intelligence is a constant state of thinking.
00:36:02.362 -->
00:36:09.764Second was we can think of anything, but the third one is that you can only think, in mortality, at least of one thing at a time.
00:36:09.764 -->
00:36:17.661So any thought that you dwell on is now excluding, precluding, everything else in the world.
00:36:17.822 -->
00:36:26.206If I'm in a conversation with my grandchild and we're just having a little good conversation there, what's going on in the Middle East?
00:36:27.086 -->
00:36:40.846Who's doing what in Congress, the state of the economy, the repairs that I need to make in my utensils and tools in the garage or whatever it's obliterated?
00:36:40.846 -->
00:36:41.748It's not even there.
00:36:41.748 -->
00:36:51.461We're just now focused on one thing, and that's the technique everybody needs to use, and you're plagued with doubts, fears, just anxiety.
00:36:51.461 -->
00:37:06.445We need to both recognize that where we're at is a choice, in the sense that we can now focus on something that could be useful, uplifting, constructive, and it really helps to take action.
00:37:06.445 -->
00:37:10.253It might be instead of you know, you think.
00:37:10.253 -->
00:37:16.909Well, maybe I ought to call one of my ministering families or somebody that's not actually assigned to me, but I just get a feeling to call them.
00:37:16.909 -->
00:37:36.960I want to do it immediately, especially if I'm being in a place where I just feel like I'm not feeling the Spirit as strongly as I'd like is acting on a single thought.
00:37:36.960 -->
00:37:43.813And again, now you're precluding, excluding, and you're also now taking the disobey part and putting it into action.
00:37:44.500 -->
00:37:45.983I love that you went to the action point.
00:37:45.983 -->
00:38:02.385On a previous podcast with Brad Farr, the whole focus was on Elder Suarez's talk on remembering and it was powerful because Brad talks about in that episode, about how remembering is a covenant and how we, as we remember him.
00:38:02.385 -->
00:38:06.514It's mentioned in the sacrament every week.
00:38:06.514 -->
00:38:11.440It's mentioned in the temple during the initiatory phase when it's explained the garments.
00:38:11.440 -->
00:38:13.467There's this remembering thing that's pieced of it.
00:38:13.467 -->
00:38:16.206Initiatory phase, when it's explaining the garments, like there's this remembering thing that's pieced of it.
00:38:16.226 -->
00:38:21.085I think we don't realize that that is the key element of our battle against the adversary is remembering Him always.
00:38:21.125 -->
00:38:35.074So whether it's reading scriptures of stories of people who've gone on, or writing in a journal or doing our family history and hearing of those stories where people have overcome, we're seeing the Lord's hand, as Moroni says in the last chapter of the Book of Mormon he talks about.
00:38:35.579 -->
00:38:49.873I would that you would remember all the tender mercies, or I'm paraphrasing loosely but all that the Lord has done since the time of Adam throughout the history of mankind, because when we can remember him, there's a spiritual awakening that isn't as cognitive.
00:38:49.873 -->
00:39:03.882It's more of our soul's recognition of, or our spirit's recognition of, our source and then our thoughts start generating from that place the natural who we are, which is to do good and to love and to serve.
00:39:03.882 -->
00:39:08.643And, like you said, if we only have one thought at a time, there's not space for anyone else.
00:39:08.643 -->
00:39:20.963So my question for you is going back to the question that I've always wanted to ask you is at what point is repentance a part of that journey, like for mental thoughts, for example, in the war in our head?
00:39:20.963 -->
00:39:26.809Obviously there becomes a point, like when the thought enters our mind and we handle it, it actually increases our connection to the Lord.
00:39:27.219 -->
00:39:30.583Pete, yeah, and that's what repentance is increasing the connection with the Lord.
00:39:30.583 -->
00:39:44.371Okay, we have this notion of repentance I had it for years and years that it's all about some real grievous sin and you need to get in touch with your priesthood leaders and confess and maybe have a probationary period and all of that.
00:39:44.371 -->
00:39:49.670We got this and I think that's the action or the doctrine of the spook.
00:39:49.670 -->
00:39:51.708This can be hard and ugly and you don't want to go through it.
00:39:52.380 -->
00:39:54.264Spook being the adversary, yeah, and so we get the point.
00:39:54.304 -->
00:39:56.710Well, I think I'd rather go to hell than to go to confession.
00:39:56.710 -->
00:40:02.652Yeah, you know so, but I might have lost my train of thought with that one.
00:40:02.652 -->
00:40:08.425But let me kind of recover where I was at in that thinking is that?
00:40:08.425 -->
00:40:16.340And Weatherford Clayton of the 70s I thank that man for just that one talk he talked about.
00:40:16.340 -->
00:40:25.896Every time you read the scriptures, every time you do a good deed, every time you pray, you're repenting, you're getting closer.
00:40:26.199 -->
00:40:30.987Repenting has got a name, actually in the business world, it's called continuous improvement.
00:40:30.987 -->
00:40:38.673Yeah, okay, and so, if we look at it, it's not about recovering from some major defect or fault or mistake.
00:40:38.673 -->
00:40:44.532It's the process of every day getting a little bit better, a little bit more of the spirit, a little bit.
00:40:44.532 -->
00:40:47.905And so it's the again.
00:40:47.905 -->
00:40:51.152What's sometimes branded as the primary answer with disdain.
00:40:51.152 -->
00:40:55.271It's for the children and not for us sophisticated people.
00:40:55.271 -->
00:41:01.519We need something higher and more wonderful or mysterious, and it's the simple fact of the matter.
00:41:01.519 -->
00:41:15.112As we're doing those daily reading the scriptures, looking for opportunities to go out of our way, to be kind and so forth, we are repenting, we're getting better, we're getting more like Christ, and so, if you look at it.
00:41:15.112 -->
00:41:28.596It's just continuous, daily improvement, and it doesn't have to be anything more than those simple gestures that we're taught every day.
00:41:28.596 -->
00:41:36.353I mean taught repeatedly in the workings of the general authorities and our priesthood leaders.
00:41:36.820 -->
00:41:43.869That really helps, because I think for me there was this thought of like okay, at what point in my dwelling on a thought is it now a sin?
00:41:43.869 -->
00:41:45.172You know what I mean.
00:41:45.641 -->
00:41:56.402That's erroneous because I think that's where I was leading with that question, as I'm realizing in real time, is that it's about a constant recognition and that constant resistance to the adversarial's desire.
00:41:56.402 -->
00:41:57.605That is repentance.
00:41:57.605 -->
00:42:14.974So, whether I caught it here or here, or if it turns into actions, there definitely is a point at which certain things have to be brought up to a priesthood authority, but it's not about this formula and it's more about the nature of our desires.
00:42:14.974 -->
00:42:18.186So there's almost something freeing about that.
00:42:18.407 -->
00:42:18.628Yeah.
00:42:19.010 -->
00:42:33.067In the sense that, like, oh, it's always going to be there and sometimes I'm going to catch it sooner than others, but as long as I keep trying to catch it, the atonement of our Savior Jesus Christ is going to come in and fill that with everything else that I can't.
00:42:33.067 -->
00:42:34.786Yeah, absolutely.
00:42:34.786 -->
00:42:38.469Thanks again for listening to today's episode of Temple Bound.
00:42:38.469 -->
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00:42:47.152 -->
00:43:00.894See you over there, thank you.
