Paul Miller: Welcome to Tech for Good with Bethnal Green Ventures. My name's Paul Miller, and it's fantastic to be joined today by Fred Afrifra Fred's a communications coach and expert who's worked with the Bethnal Green Ventures team as well as a number of our portfolio companies. His specialism is what he calls high-stakes communication and clarity under pressure, which is something that I think a lot of Tech for Good founders Perhaps need a little bit of help with. He's also co-author of the book Unmute Yourself, which was published this summer, which includes some great advice about pitching both virtually and in the room. So, Fred, great to have you on the show. Let's go talk a little bit about you and a bit about your story. Take us back to little Fred and tell us how you how you came to the UK, because that's a really interesting story. you you didn't necessarily throw yourself into the schoolwork as it were, but you you learned that you did have a talent.
Frederick Afrifa: there was a day after school where a big fight broke out and my instincts told me to run as fast as I could in the opposite direction. And one of my teachers actually spotted me running. And the day after he told me, I saw you running. I think you're fantastic. You should go to our local running track. Something I had never even considered. And I thought, really? And I went and I discovered I actually did have a talent. And a few years on, I signed a professional contract and represented Italy at European stage. So that was quite the... This is the discovery.
Paul Miller: Yeah, that's i I mean it's it's an incredible story. And then yeah, I mean you you represented Italy, but there there was there was then a another twist really in terms of you know, how you built your career and a and f it was sort of forced on you in one way.
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely. So in 2019, I was a national champion over 400 meters, which was great timing, it seemed, the year before the Olympics. And then in 2020, we all know the world changed through COVID. So I got COVID and my performances just really declined quite sharply from there. And it was just so difficult to get back on the horse. When the Olympics got postponed to 2021, I missed out because my 2020 was so bad. And then I got dropped by all my sponsors. My team stopped paying me. And then I pretty much just left. into the wilderness. That's the other side of professional sports that people don't often speak about. And then I was left to think of a new career at the time I was doing delivery driving, security, just making ends meet. And then I started speaking in schools about my running career really as a way to develop as a person because I was quite anxious. And
Paul Miller: Mm.
Frederick Afrifa: then that accidentally, I say, turned into a career as a professional speaker.
Paul Miller: Yeah, so I mean, it it is quite a transformation. I mean, people can go and look at you on YouTube and so on. I mean, you are a fantastic public speaker now. Like what what was it that flipped in your mind that made you take that, you know, what what you you described yourself as like, you know, a challenge t when you were when you were younger into something that you've really turned into a strength?
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely and I always like to say I still find it quite challenging now and I think that's also why I'm I guess I'm so good at coaching people because I really empathize with people that struggle to speak when they're in those high-pressured situations and it was a mentor of mine and he told me that you are now no longer a professional athlete Then you could get away with not speaking much, not doing many interviews. Now you're in the real world. You're going to have to speak to people. And I had a degree in accounting and I... applied for a few accounting roles and I got the interviews but I never got the roles. And even with something like accounting I'd have to report the account to the team and they told me my communication skills were not up to scratch. as an athlete, the only way I got better at anything was by doing it a lot. So initially my block starts weren't very good and then I did them a lot and I improved. So I thought maybe I just need to speak more to get better at speaking. And that's what prompted me to reach out to the schools in my local area. And just like any other the more I did it, the better I got and I still found it quite anxious, nervous but I was able to really mitigate those nerves and really improve that skill.
Paul Miller: Yeah. And then a couple of years on you you find yourself in a a very high pressure environment which is the apprentice. Should sh
Frederick Afrifa: I think.
Paul Miller: l tell us a little bit about that, 'cause you know, that was that that was that's quite a journey as well.
Frederick Afrifa: Yes, I mean that's definitely the scariest thing I've ever done and I will never be under more pressure than that. No pitching to... one of the investors, little sugar, nine cameras in front of me, really scary. And my reasoning for going on the show was really to accelerate my business. And I've really understood that good work alone can only take you so far in the digital age. You have to pair that with visibility. So I thought, have a really good business, have a really good service that can help people. And I want to help people. If nobody knows who I am, then how can I really go about this mission? So that was one of my crazy ideas to go on the show. applied for season 18, didn't get on. Season 19, tried again, persevered, I got on. And yes, I got to week seven of the apprentice spoiler alert. And it was a fantastic experience. And actually one of the catalysts for helping me to work with organizations like Bethany Green Ventures.
Paul Miller: Yeah. So let's let's dig into a little bit of your philosophy around around communications. You talk about clarity under pressure as being the one of the most important aspects of communication. You you don't you're not so much talking about like confidence. It's it's more this like these pressured moments. T tell us a little bit about that and how how you came to understand that and also, you know, maybe some some tips for people around you know how to deal with
Frederick Afrifa: My philosophy really comes from my own experience. People told me to be more confident and I just didn't know what that meant or how to do that. So then what I found is that when I speak to family, to my mom, to my friends, I'm okay. When I speak to strangers or to audiences, I am not okay. And I tried to figure out why is it that that is the case? And I found that that is typically the case across industries and to most people that when speaking to friends and family, you're okay. So then I figured that the fear wasn't really a fear of public speaking, it depended who I was speaking to. It was more a fear of judgment or fear of perception that stopped me from doing the speaking and that's when I really reverse engineered it. So confidence, in my opinion, is really just evidence. a misconception that I had at the start and most people have is that when you're confident you don't get nervous, you don't get anxious, you can just ace your pitch presentations but actually... Anxiety is a normal biological experience that you will feel. And I remember before every important race as an athlete, I'd get nervous. I could have prepared for four years for that race. In that stadium, I'll be anxious. And a similar thing will happen with founders and pitchers. You can prepare for years, months for that pitch. If you stand in front of that investor, you will get nervous. And that's why my philosophy is, okay, nerves are okay. Let's not actually focus on them. Let's think about what we can do when the nerves arrive rather than and avoid them coming in the first place.
Paul Miller: Hm. So what what's what do you see when you see like, you know, smart founders got really good products, really good, you know, you on on paper that that they they've got a really good case for for talking to investors. What where do they fall down? What's what what are the what are the mistakes that you see?
Frederick Afrifa: Often founders that are, especially when it's for good founders, we all started our business because we wanted to help people, because we had some knowledge that we believe we could impart on others, whether it's through tech or through a service. And the challenge is that we don't speak to people as if they don't know the stuff. So you may be very knowledgeable in a certain aspect of environmental change. What you have to understand is that most founders or most people you speak to will not be as knowledgeable as you. And rather than word vomiting or overloading people with information, it's important to be as concise and bite-sized as possible. One, attention spans are reducing. But two, if you give people too much information, it's as bad as giving them none. And the example I often give is, if you are a great cook, Paul, and I come over and you cook 15 dishes for me. I only really eat two or three, like max. And after that, even if I was to eat them, I wouldn't really enjoy them. And it's the same with information. So one of the biggest mistakes that founders make is that they give too much information upfront, rather than focusing on the key things that will move the needle.
Paul Miller: Yeah. And and yeah, I mean flipping it around, thinking about it from the the perspective of an investor, what is it that makes something memorable? What it what is it, what are those those great dishes if you like that investors like to hear? What's what's what what what what's common in those?
Frederick Afrifa: think there are two things that want to focus on. First is the founder and the second is the story. One of the mistakes that we often make is that we care so much about the mission that we forget about the individual behind the mission. That's something that I've continuously learned. In fact, one of the first things that they ask you before you get on The Apprentice is why should you be Little Sugar's next business partner? In that moment, many people, too many people focused on their mission, their business. I focused on myself. And I said, this is why I believe I should be there. This is where I've been able to get to without him. And with his backing, I believe I can get even there. So one thing that founders need to remember is what is your story, not necessarily just the origin of your idea. And that leads to my second point, which is storytelling. Often when decks are dense with facts, information, stats, investors are not going to remember it. And I've spoken to so many investors and they'll say on any given day they'll listen to me, 10, 15 different pitches. How are you going to be the one that stands out if you're the same as the others? So for myself, for example, I know that my journey from coming to the UK, these are all things that make me unique. And this is what makes me memorable. So every founder needs to ask themselves what part of My journey makes me unique because that's what's going to make you more memorable to the investors.
Paul Miller: And I think I I've I've heard you talk about kind of communication being even more of a superpower in the age of AI. And like you you know, talk us talk us a little bit about that. You know, w what how do you feel the these sort of public speaking and communication skills are sort of becoming more important i today?
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely. I'd say 15 years ago, to even be in a position where you had the technical knowledge was a real skill. And only a select amount of people would have the information and the knowledge. Now with LLMs, AI information is out there and anyone can look smart on paper. Anyone's deck can look very impressive. Actually, I think as of yesterday, Claude can now help you do decks. So
Paul Miller: So
Frederick Afrifa: everyone's deck is going to look really pretty. Everyone's CV is going look really pretty. What's going to really separate you now is your ability to articulate that information under pressure when the stakes are high, when the investors are looking at you. You will always ever be perceived at your level of communication. Meaning if your knowledge is a nine out of 10, maybe your product is a nine out of 10, but your communication skills are a three, when it's time to articulate the power of the knowledge and the product, people perceive you to be a three out of 10 individual and you won't do yourself a service. And that's why now more than ever, this is a critical skill to help you stand out.
Paul Miller: Mm. And the with the the book, you know, you frame it around this unmute yourself, obviously like that the the the metaphor being the the zoom call where where people you're on mute. but yeah, talk talk to us a little bit about the you know pitching in a in virtual environment. 'Cause it is it's different when you're in that little rectangle, isn't it, compared to being in a room. And and what are the things that you've learned really stand out when people are pitching online?
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely and though there are parallels between speaking online and speaking in person, it is a lot harder to connect with people when speaking in person. So one of the easiest ways to make sure that your audience is engaged is actually making sure that they are on board with what you're saying to them. So I say this because a lot of the times people will speak for 15, 20, 30 minutes and only at the end double check with the audience. Is everything clear? As they want to any questions, what I suggest is you chunk that into five to 10 minutes. Every five to 10 minutes, you want to double check that the stakeholders that you're speaking to are clear. They understand, especially if this camera is off. OK, please put in the chat if you have any questions. I'll just wait 30 seconds. This will allow people to continuously engage in what you are saying. We all know that, especially when you're on Zoom, you're more likely to get distracted. to look at their emails. So by incorporating that regular checkup, it's just a small thing you can do to make sure that your audience is a lot more engaged.
Paul Miller: That's that I think that's really good advice. And I mean are there things that you you wouldn't do in a Zoom pitch compared to you know c compared to a if you were me meeting a an investor or a customer even i i in person?
Frederick Afrifa: think with Zoom, it's even more important that your slides are not dense with information. As human beings, cannot read and listen to something at the same time. Try to read a book and listen to your partner at same time. You won't be able to do both. And that's exactly what's going to happen. If your slides are dense of information in person, you can give a little bit of guidance on where to look. So here you have the graph, here you have this. Whereas on Zoom, people are to opt for reading first and listen to you after. I think especially if you're pitching and speaking to people on Zoom, keep your slides as clear as possible. Don't make them too busy. I often say you're better off having 30 slides that are very simplistic than 10 slides that are too busy.
Paul Miller: Hmm, okay. And and if there was s some other pieces of advice from the book that you think founders should take away, w w what what have you got in there that's that that you think is a a a gem for for Tech for Good founders?
Frederick Afrifa: I think there's a framework to answering questions that I often use and it's called the PER framework. Point, explain, repeat. The reason it's helpful is because the P stands for Point-Led Thinking. When you are a subject matter expert and you get asked a question, you have the tendency to over explain and to give all of your knowledge. you make sure you want to make sure that the audience understands how knowledgeable you are. But as I said before, that can be counterintuitive. So if P, even if there are seven different answers for the question you asked, pick one. And then E, you explain why that was the point that you made. You go into detail so you can add some stories, et cetera. The R at the end is important because you want to repeat the point without over explaining. Sometimes, often, we over explain, we go into many details and sometimes people even ask, sorry, what was the question again? Because they just got tangled up in all of those thoughts and ideas. So P-E-R point, explain the point and then repeat it or reinforce it. It's a very clean way of answering questions, especially when you are under pressure. Another
Paul Miller: Mm-hmm.
Frederick Afrifa: tip is if... you're under pressure and someone's asked you a question, you don't have to dive into the answer straight away. There are three things you can do. You can ask them to repeat it, even though you've heard it perfectly fine the first time, but don't overdo it. You can repeat the question yourself, or you can simply just pause and take two or three seconds to think of the answer. Number three is the hardest one, but it's actually the one that makes you look the most serious because the audience will feel like you've considered it and you've really thought about it rather than jumped to an answer. these are simple things that founders can do from their pictures tomorrow.
Paul Miller: Yeah. And I I think we've we've talked about this before, but you're not a big fan of like a really tight script, are you, for for a pitch? So let let's talk a bit about that. Like you know, why why you think actually in some ways you're better to to to have an outline almost of your pitch, but not not a word for word script that you that you might try and try and use.
Frederick Afrifa: I say this to every founder, I'm so anti-scripts and it's for a few reasons. If you have a script memorised in your head and you're delivering it in person, if for whatever reason you forget a few words, you forget a few sentences, you forget the point that comes next, your whole speech has unraveled because you are performing a word-to-word script and that is very likely to happen under pressure. really important thing to understand is that when you're under that stress and pressure your brain will process things quicker than it otherwise would. So even a meal that you can make without thinking, if I ask you to make that meal at Wembley Stadium live on BBC you'll start overthinking and panicking. what I recommend you do instead is you have an outline as you suggested of points that you want to make or maybe sentences that you can look back on that will remind you of what you have to say. Something that people do a lot virtually is they'll have the PowerPoint to the right and then the words to the left and then maybe the zoom in the middle.
Paul Miller: Yeah, it's amazing how many how many times we see that at BGV actually and it's it's it's
Frederick Afrifa: You say often.
Paul Miller: it's it's a it's like it's off putting. You can't quite work out why, you know.
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely, absolutely. So as a speaker, you know something is out, the person's reading it. And as the communicator, it's difficult. You're reading from here, you've got your slides here, but then the audience is down here, and you're actually distracting yourself from the main thing. Good communication happens when the audience understands what you're trying to say. We need to keep the main thing the main thing. To be liked, to be funny, that is just a bonus. Great communication happens when the audience understands you. So a great pitch is when the investor understands the product, the problem, and the founder. Cover these three things and you're more likely to get your desired outcome.
Paul Miller: That's great. I wondered, yeah, if you've you know if I'm sorry, I'll just have to think about how I wanna how I want to frame this. your Going back to one of the points you made in your journey in terms of creating your business and understanding that if nobody knows about you, nobody you you your your chances of success in the sort of current world are are really limited. How do you think that applies to to startups as well? Is it is it are we now in a position where you know Like you need to be out there sort of telling your story as a start up, i more so than in the past. I mean I my my feeling is that that probably is true, but j I'd just be interested to to hear like what you've seen and whether you think there is a shift that's happened around startup communication.
Frederick Afrifa: I think so. I think there's been a huge shift just about how businesses get known, how businesses get customers and clients. So we live in the creator economy where even very established companies are paying people that have an audience to advertise for them. So it's a real hack when you already have an audience. And the thing is, we've seen it actually fail as well because when you look at It was KSI and Logan Paul had this. energy drink, they got a big audience and the business went skyrocketed but the product wasn't very good so then it plummeted. So that's why I say you need to pair the good work with the visibility. It's not just about the visibility but at the same time if you just have the good work you will be the best kept secret. You'll be the tree that falls in a forest and nobody hears it and as a result you won't be able to achieve your desired outcome of helping people. So yes even founders that are maybe more introverted and do expect the good work to speak for itself. that is no longer the case. You have to put yourself out there one way or another and there are many ways to do it. So find a way that works best for you and really double down on
Paul Miller: Yeah, there's such a diversity of ways and and channels these days. It doesn't have to be you don't need to be a YouTube star. There's like there's there's you know or, you know, necessarily a sort of public speaker. You can find that that way of communicating with the audience that matters for your product and for your startup.
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely, if you're a better writer, there's something called a sub stack at the moment, which is a place where people write and they build audiences. You can be on LinkedIn or you can be on X. So if your subject matter is writing, then you can do that with writing. If it's speaking, then you can find a way to do speaking. And if you're not good at either, you can get training to become a better writer or become a better speaker. So no excuses. You've really got to find your ways to put yourself out there.
Paul Miller: Okay. that's great. So yeah, Fred, thanks so much for joining us today. I absolutely encourage people to to read the book and to to to to look at your your TED talks and your other your other talks. Fantastic advice in there for for founders around communication. But Fred, thanks so much for for joining us today.
Frederick Afrifa: Thanks for having me, Paul.
Paul Miller: If you've got suggestions for guests or topics we should be covering on TechForgood, do get in touch. And if you're thinking of starting a Tech for Good venture and looking for an investment, don't forget to check out Bethnorgreenventures.com to see whether we might be able to help. That's it for this week. Thanks for listening and goodbye.
Frederick Afrifa: there was a day after school where a big fight broke out and my instincts told me to run as fast as I could in the opposite direction. And one of my teachers actually spotted me running. And the day after he told me, I saw you running. I think you're fantastic. You should go to our local running track. Something I had never even considered. And I thought, really? And I went and I discovered I actually did have a talent. And a few years on, I signed a professional contract and represented Italy at European stage. So that was quite the... This is the discovery.
Paul Miller: Yeah, that's i I mean it's it's an incredible story. And then yeah, I mean you you represented Italy, but there there was there was then a another twist really in terms of you know, how you built your career and a and f it was sort of forced on you in one way.
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely. So in 2019, I was a national champion over 400 meters, which was great timing, it seemed, the year before the Olympics. And then in 2020, we all know the world changed through COVID. So I got COVID and my performances just really declined quite sharply from there. And it was just so difficult to get back on the horse. When the Olympics got postponed to 2021, I missed out because my 2020 was so bad. And then I got dropped by all my sponsors. My team stopped paying me. And then I pretty much just left. into the wilderness. That's the other side of professional sports that people don't often speak about. And then I was left to think of a new career at the time I was doing delivery driving, security, just making ends meet. And then I started speaking in schools about my running career really as a way to develop as a person because I was quite anxious. And
Paul Miller: Mm.
Frederick Afrifa: then that accidentally, I say, turned into a career as a professional speaker.
Paul Miller: Yeah, so I mean, it it is quite a transformation. I mean, people can go and look at you on YouTube and so on. I mean, you are a fantastic public speaker now. Like what what was it that flipped in your mind that made you take that, you know, what what you you described yourself as like, you know, a challenge t when you were when you were younger into something that you've really turned into a strength?
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely and I always like to say I still find it quite challenging now and I think that's also why I'm I guess I'm so good at coaching people because I really empathize with people that struggle to speak when they're in those high-pressured situations and it was a mentor of mine and he told me that you are now no longer a professional athlete Then you could get away with not speaking much, not doing many interviews. Now you're in the real world. You're going to have to speak to people. And I had a degree in accounting and I... applied for a few accounting roles and I got the interviews but I never got the roles. And even with something like accounting I'd have to report the account to the team and they told me my communication skills were not up to scratch. as an athlete, the only way I got better at anything was by doing it a lot. So initially my block starts weren't very good and then I did them a lot and I improved. So I thought maybe I just need to speak more to get better at speaking. And that's what prompted me to reach out to the schools in my local area. And just like any other the more I did it, the better I got and I still found it quite anxious, nervous but I was able to really mitigate those nerves and really improve that skill.
Paul Miller: Yeah. And then a couple of years on you you find yourself in a a very high pressure environment which is the apprentice. Should sh
Frederick Afrifa: I think.
Paul Miller: l tell us a little bit about that, 'cause you know, that was that that was that's quite a journey as well.
Frederick Afrifa: Yes, I mean that's definitely the scariest thing I've ever done and I will never be under more pressure than that. No pitching to... one of the investors, little sugar, nine cameras in front of me, really scary. And my reasoning for going on the show was really to accelerate my business. And I've really understood that good work alone can only take you so far in the digital age. You have to pair that with visibility. So I thought, have a really good business, have a really good service that can help people. And I want to help people. If nobody knows who I am, then how can I really go about this mission? So that was one of my crazy ideas to go on the show. applied for season 18, didn't get on. Season 19, tried again, persevered, I got on. And yes, I got to week seven of the apprentice spoiler alert. And it was a fantastic experience. And actually one of the catalysts for helping me to work with organizations like Bethany Green Ventures.
Paul Miller: Yeah. So let's let's dig into a little bit of your philosophy around around communications. You talk about clarity under pressure as being the one of the most important aspects of communication. You you don't you're not so much talking about like confidence. It's it's more this like these pressured moments. T tell us a little bit about that and how how you came to understand that and also, you know, maybe some some tips for people around you know how to deal with
Frederick Afrifa: My philosophy really comes from my own experience. People told me to be more confident and I just didn't know what that meant or how to do that. So then what I found is that when I speak to family, to my mom, to my friends, I'm okay. When I speak to strangers or to audiences, I am not okay. And I tried to figure out why is it that that is the case? And I found that that is typically the case across industries and to most people that when speaking to friends and family, you're okay. So then I figured that the fear wasn't really a fear of public speaking, it depended who I was speaking to. It was more a fear of judgment or fear of perception that stopped me from doing the speaking and that's when I really reverse engineered it. So confidence, in my opinion, is really just evidence. a misconception that I had at the start and most people have is that when you're confident you don't get nervous, you don't get anxious, you can just ace your pitch presentations but actually... Anxiety is a normal biological experience that you will feel. And I remember before every important race as an athlete, I'd get nervous. I could have prepared for four years for that race. In that stadium, I'll be anxious. And a similar thing will happen with founders and pitchers. You can prepare for years, months for that pitch. If you stand in front of that investor, you will get nervous. And that's why my philosophy is, okay, nerves are okay. Let's not actually focus on them. Let's think about what we can do when the nerves arrive rather than and avoid them coming in the first place.
Paul Miller: Hm. So what what's what do you see when you see like, you know, smart founders got really good products, really good, you know, you on on paper that that they they've got a really good case for for talking to investors. What where do they fall down? What's what what are the what are the mistakes that you see?
Frederick Afrifa: Often founders that are, especially when it's for good founders, we all started our business because we wanted to help people, because we had some knowledge that we believe we could impart on others, whether it's through tech or through a service. And the challenge is that we don't speak to people as if they don't know the stuff. So you may be very knowledgeable in a certain aspect of environmental change. What you have to understand is that most founders or most people you speak to will not be as knowledgeable as you. And rather than word vomiting or overloading people with information, it's important to be as concise and bite-sized as possible. One, attention spans are reducing. But two, if you give people too much information, it's as bad as giving them none. And the example I often give is, if you are a great cook, Paul, and I come over and you cook 15 dishes for me. I only really eat two or three, like max. And after that, even if I was to eat them, I wouldn't really enjoy them. And it's the same with information. So one of the biggest mistakes that founders make is that they give too much information upfront, rather than focusing on the key things that will move the needle.
Paul Miller: Yeah. And and yeah, I mean flipping it around, thinking about it from the the perspective of an investor, what is it that makes something memorable? What it what is it, what are those those great dishes if you like that investors like to hear? What's what's what what what what's common in those?
Frederick Afrifa: think there are two things that want to focus on. First is the founder and the second is the story. One of the mistakes that we often make is that we care so much about the mission that we forget about the individual behind the mission. That's something that I've continuously learned. In fact, one of the first things that they ask you before you get on The Apprentice is why should you be Little Sugar's next business partner? In that moment, many people, too many people focused on their mission, their business. I focused on myself. And I said, this is why I believe I should be there. This is where I've been able to get to without him. And with his backing, I believe I can get even there. So one thing that founders need to remember is what is your story, not necessarily just the origin of your idea. And that leads to my second point, which is storytelling. Often when decks are dense with facts, information, stats, investors are not going to remember it. And I've spoken to so many investors and they'll say on any given day they'll listen to me, 10, 15 different pitches. How are you going to be the one that stands out if you're the same as the others? So for myself, for example, I know that my journey from coming to the UK, these are all things that make me unique. And this is what makes me memorable. So every founder needs to ask themselves what part of My journey makes me unique because that's what's going to make you more memorable to the investors.
Paul Miller: And I think I I've I've heard you talk about kind of communication being even more of a superpower in the age of AI. And like you you know, talk us talk us a little bit about that. You know, w what how do you feel the these sort of public speaking and communication skills are sort of becoming more important i today?
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely. I'd say 15 years ago, to even be in a position where you had the technical knowledge was a real skill. And only a select amount of people would have the information and the knowledge. Now with LLMs, AI information is out there and anyone can look smart on paper. Anyone's deck can look very impressive. Actually, I think as of yesterday, Claude can now help you do decks. So
Paul Miller: So
Frederick Afrifa: everyone's deck is going to look really pretty. Everyone's CV is going look really pretty. What's going to really separate you now is your ability to articulate that information under pressure when the stakes are high, when the investors are looking at you. You will always ever be perceived at your level of communication. Meaning if your knowledge is a nine out of 10, maybe your product is a nine out of 10, but your communication skills are a three, when it's time to articulate the power of the knowledge and the product, people perceive you to be a three out of 10 individual and you won't do yourself a service. And that's why now more than ever, this is a critical skill to help you stand out.
Paul Miller: Mm. And the with the the book, you know, you frame it around this unmute yourself, obviously like that the the the metaphor being the the zoom call where where people you're on mute. but yeah, talk talk to us a little bit about the you know pitching in a in virtual environment. 'Cause it is it's different when you're in that little rectangle, isn't it, compared to being in a room. And and what are the things that you've learned really stand out when people are pitching online?
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely and though there are parallels between speaking online and speaking in person, it is a lot harder to connect with people when speaking in person. So one of the easiest ways to make sure that your audience is engaged is actually making sure that they are on board with what you're saying to them. So I say this because a lot of the times people will speak for 15, 20, 30 minutes and only at the end double check with the audience. Is everything clear? As they want to any questions, what I suggest is you chunk that into five to 10 minutes. Every five to 10 minutes, you want to double check that the stakeholders that you're speaking to are clear. They understand, especially if this camera is off. OK, please put in the chat if you have any questions. I'll just wait 30 seconds. This will allow people to continuously engage in what you are saying. We all know that, especially when you're on Zoom, you're more likely to get distracted. to look at their emails. So by incorporating that regular checkup, it's just a small thing you can do to make sure that your audience is a lot more engaged.
Paul Miller: That's that I think that's really good advice. And I mean are there things that you you wouldn't do in a Zoom pitch compared to you know c compared to a if you were me meeting a an investor or a customer even i i in person?
Frederick Afrifa: think with Zoom, it's even more important that your slides are not dense with information. As human beings, cannot read and listen to something at the same time. Try to read a book and listen to your partner at same time. You won't be able to do both. And that's exactly what's going to happen. If your slides are dense of information in person, you can give a little bit of guidance on where to look. So here you have the graph, here you have this. Whereas on Zoom, people are to opt for reading first and listen to you after. I think especially if you're pitching and speaking to people on Zoom, keep your slides as clear as possible. Don't make them too busy. I often say you're better off having 30 slides that are very simplistic than 10 slides that are too busy.
Paul Miller: Hmm, okay. And and if there was s some other pieces of advice from the book that you think founders should take away, w w what what have you got in there that's that that you think is a a a gem for for Tech for Good founders?
Frederick Afrifa: I think there's a framework to answering questions that I often use and it's called the PER framework. Point, explain, repeat. The reason it's helpful is because the P stands for Point-Led Thinking. When you are a subject matter expert and you get asked a question, you have the tendency to over explain and to give all of your knowledge. you make sure you want to make sure that the audience understands how knowledgeable you are. But as I said before, that can be counterintuitive. So if P, even if there are seven different answers for the question you asked, pick one. And then E, you explain why that was the point that you made. You go into detail so you can add some stories, et cetera. The R at the end is important because you want to repeat the point without over explaining. Sometimes, often, we over explain, we go into many details and sometimes people even ask, sorry, what was the question again? Because they just got tangled up in all of those thoughts and ideas. So P-E-R point, explain the point and then repeat it or reinforce it. It's a very clean way of answering questions, especially when you are under pressure. Another
Paul Miller: Mm-hmm.
Frederick Afrifa: tip is if... you're under pressure and someone's asked you a question, you don't have to dive into the answer straight away. There are three things you can do. You can ask them to repeat it, even though you've heard it perfectly fine the first time, but don't overdo it. You can repeat the question yourself, or you can simply just pause and take two or three seconds to think of the answer. Number three is the hardest one, but it's actually the one that makes you look the most serious because the audience will feel like you've considered it and you've really thought about it rather than jumped to an answer. these are simple things that founders can do from their pictures tomorrow.
Paul Miller: Yeah. And I I think we've we've talked about this before, but you're not a big fan of like a really tight script, are you, for for a pitch? So let let's talk a bit about that. Like you know, why why you think actually in some ways you're better to to to have an outline almost of your pitch, but not not a word for word script that you that you might try and try and use.
Frederick Afrifa: I say this to every founder, I'm so anti-scripts and it's for a few reasons. If you have a script memorised in your head and you're delivering it in person, if for whatever reason you forget a few words, you forget a few sentences, you forget the point that comes next, your whole speech has unraveled because you are performing a word-to-word script and that is very likely to happen under pressure. really important thing to understand is that when you're under that stress and pressure your brain will process things quicker than it otherwise would. So even a meal that you can make without thinking, if I ask you to make that meal at Wembley Stadium live on BBC you'll start overthinking and panicking. what I recommend you do instead is you have an outline as you suggested of points that you want to make or maybe sentences that you can look back on that will remind you of what you have to say. Something that people do a lot virtually is they'll have the PowerPoint to the right and then the words to the left and then maybe the zoom in the middle.
Paul Miller: Yeah, it's amazing how many how many times we see that at BGV actually and it's it's it's
Frederick Afrifa: You say often.
Paul Miller: it's it's a it's like it's off putting. You can't quite work out why, you know.
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely, absolutely. So as a speaker, you know something is out, the person's reading it. And as the communicator, it's difficult. You're reading from here, you've got your slides here, but then the audience is down here, and you're actually distracting yourself from the main thing. Good communication happens when the audience understands what you're trying to say. We need to keep the main thing the main thing. To be liked, to be funny, that is just a bonus. Great communication happens when the audience understands you. So a great pitch is when the investor understands the product, the problem, and the founder. Cover these three things and you're more likely to get your desired outcome.
Paul Miller: That's great. I wondered, yeah, if you've you know if I'm sorry, I'll just have to think about how I wanna how I want to frame this. your Going back to one of the points you made in your journey in terms of creating your business and understanding that if nobody knows about you, nobody you you your your chances of success in the sort of current world are are really limited. How do you think that applies to to startups as well? Is it is it are we now in a position where you know Like you need to be out there sort of telling your story as a start up, i more so than in the past. I mean I my my feeling is that that probably is true, but j I'd just be interested to to hear like what you've seen and whether you think there is a shift that's happened around startup communication.
Frederick Afrifa: I think so. I think there's been a huge shift just about how businesses get known, how businesses get customers and clients. So we live in the creator economy where even very established companies are paying people that have an audience to advertise for them. So it's a real hack when you already have an audience. And the thing is, we've seen it actually fail as well because when you look at It was KSI and Logan Paul had this. energy drink, they got a big audience and the business went skyrocketed but the product wasn't very good so then it plummeted. So that's why I say you need to pair the good work with the visibility. It's not just about the visibility but at the same time if you just have the good work you will be the best kept secret. You'll be the tree that falls in a forest and nobody hears it and as a result you won't be able to achieve your desired outcome of helping people. So yes even founders that are maybe more introverted and do expect the good work to speak for itself. that is no longer the case. You have to put yourself out there one way or another and there are many ways to do it. So find a way that works best for you and really double down on
Paul Miller: Yeah, there's such a diversity of ways and and channels these days. It doesn't have to be you don't need to be a YouTube star. There's like there's there's you know or, you know, necessarily a sort of public speaker. You can find that that way of communicating with the audience that matters for your product and for your startup.
Frederick Afrifa: Absolutely, if you're a better writer, there's something called a sub stack at the moment, which is a place where people write and they build audiences. You can be on LinkedIn or you can be on X. So if your subject matter is writing, then you can do that with writing. If it's speaking, then you can find a way to do speaking. And if you're not good at either, you can get training to become a better writer or become a better speaker. So no excuses. You've really got to find your ways to put yourself out there.
Paul Miller: Okay. that's great. So yeah, Fred, thanks so much for joining us today. I absolutely encourage people to to read the book and to to to to look at your your TED talks and your other your other talks. Fantastic advice in there for for founders around communication. But Fred, thanks so much for for joining us today.
Frederick Afrifa: Thanks for having me, Paul.
Paul Miller: If you've got suggestions for guests or topics we should be covering on TechForgood, do get in touch. And if you're thinking of starting a Tech for Good venture and looking for an investment, don't forget to check out Bethnorgreenventures.com to see whether we might be able to help. That's it for this week. Thanks for listening and goodbye.
