Chad Darnell -- Verticals, IP Fears, and the Hustle of Modern Filmmaking

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There we go.
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I might start that again because why do I look like Ghost Dad?
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I don't know.
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I was going to say you look like Ghost John.
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My computer does not know what to do with all this daylight.
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Maybe that's what it is.
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I'm just going to look ghosty.
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You know what?
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I'm just going to look ghosty.
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I knew you were an AI.
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You know, I was, where was I?
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TikTok or something.
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It was live and people were commenting on how real that AI guy looked.
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I keep going like, what are they talking about?
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It was me.
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I mean, am I just that polished in real life?
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I don't know.
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This is Tech and Talent, everybody.
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And it's a show where we talk about all things AI, all things entertainment, and whether
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or not they're coming to take your jobs, these robots.
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I don't know if I'd say that they're going to completely, completely replace you.
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But I would say that if you don't learn to adapt and utilize this technology, then you
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will be booted out by people who do adapt and learn to use technology in the arts.
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Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, yes, yes, I do.
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You know, it's funny. I've been so gung ho, like learning all this AI and stuff.
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Like, it's weird.
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I'm at a point where I'm so burnt out.
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You know, AI is supposed to be making our lives easier.
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But like, I'm like a little bit burnt out and fried just because, like, the tech is
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happening so fast.
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You know, I did have I did have a buddy who brought to my awareness, you know, he he has
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a cartoon for kids on YouTube that he's been making.
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And he did bring to my awareness that a lot of these generation apps, you know,
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especially if they're owned by ByteDance, basically in their user agreements say that
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anything you upload and make, they have first right to license.
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So actually, it's called Buddy Bear.
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And he's been shooting, he's owned the IP for a long time and like he's doing it.
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He's done it practically.
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He's also done it by creating some AI stuff.
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But I think he got a little sketched out because of what some of these AI companies
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are saying in terms of owning and licensing stuff.
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I mean, the reality is, like, we have to be so careful, like we do have to be so
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careful on where we're putting our likeness and where we're sharing content that we
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shoot. I mean, you have to like read these user agreements, you know what I mean?
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Yeah. And I mean, the easiest way to do that is literally just put the user agreement
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into AI and have it tell it, tell you what it is, you know.
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Are you afraid that people will take your work?
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People, companies, whatever you think, you know, I mean, I don't know.
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Well, if I'm working on something to create IP, you know, like a show or something, then
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I would be afraid. You know, like some of the other stuff, you know, the way I look
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at it is, you know, I have so much stuff of Bretton and out on the Internet, you know,
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that's free stuff that's supposed to promote me as an actor, entrepreneur, filmmaker.
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Right. And that stuff is already kind of free reign.
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Even if I created it or wrote it or whatever, I think what I'm what I would be afraid
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of is if I created something with, you know, something that I focused on with a lot of
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IP and kind of shaped a world and built a world or built an AI film or series, you
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know, then putting the time and effort into that and then that license being stolen away
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from you, you know, that's where I would be afraid because I truly do believe like I
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have a positive outlook where I truly do believe that we are in the age of the actor,
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producer, you know, where anybody or just the producer where anybody can can create
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anything. And I think and I think it's going to create worlds where, you know, where
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people who weren't creators before now able to create things.
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But the thing is, I think we just have to watch out for who owns that IP.
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Hey, Chad, what's up, buddy?
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Good morning. We are we're live.
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We go. Good morning.
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We're live. Hello.
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We're not live, but we're recording.
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We are recording in the show.
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So the great Jonathan meet the great Chad Darnell, actor, cast director, producer,
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writer, multi agent.
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You throw stuff on the wall.
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It sticks right now.
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I'm just throwing things against the wall.
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OK, and nothing is sticking at all.
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I'm right now. Well, the bodies aren't yet.
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It's been a journey this past month.
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I can't I can't wait for a new season.
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What what kind of journey are you on?
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I'm working on a low budget feature right now that is.
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A low budget feature, it's a rush, three people to be in a pit with a bunch of ticks
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and we're in Savannah right now.
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So the gnats are just like I'm eating alive.
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I'm going there for 20 minutes yesterday.
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Oh, OK. But are you saying the film is about three people in a pit with ticks?
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It's a horror movie, but there's dead bodies that they the leads will happen upon.
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And so they've got like fake dead bodies are out there.
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But then and I had asked in pre-production, do I need real bodies?
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And they're like, no, no, no.
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They're going to be dead bodies.
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Now, of course, they want three people rushed in 45 minutes in Savannah.
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Which is also known as slow Vanna, because it takes me three days to book an extra.
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So you think I'm going to get there in 45 minutes?
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Please. And then I've never heard slow Vanna, but that makes that makes a lot of sense.
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Mm hmm. Yeah. So I was like, no, thank you.
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I will not be doing that.
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And and then I'm doing a play that has it's been really rewarding,
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but it is also like just.
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It's been it's been the journey, we had a very, very short rehearsal process,
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it's a very, very difficult it's one of the hardest I've done,
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had we been the angry inch, which a lot of musical theater actors
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call is the hardest role, the hardest male role in theater.
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This, I think, is I mean, I think also it's the fact that it's been a very small
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rehearsal process and it's the play, The White Ship by Sean Daniels.
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It's been done all over the world and it's a really great play, but it's super intense.
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And and physically and.
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Very, very rewarding, but that's been a challenge as well.
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And you're in it or you're you're casting it and you're in it.
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Yeah. Right. So where can we see this?
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At the Savannah closes this weekend at Savannah Rep.
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So hurry up. Yeah.
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Right. Because by the time we get this out.
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Right. I'll make sure that we get this out today.
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I've said that before, but I'll make sure that we do that.
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So how how do you guys connect?
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Have you worked together? Are you competitors?
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What's the story here?
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I mean, I guess any great entertainment industry person
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considers each one a collaborator. Right. Right.
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I think Chad, when did we actually meet?
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I mean, we've run into each other and I feel like we had this conversation
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the other day, but, you know, we ran into each other.
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I moved to Atlanta eight years ago.
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And I think we've just run in and out of each other.
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And now we're just hopping on a lot of the same productions
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running into each other even more.
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So, yeah. Yeah.
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We yeah, we couple of times here and there over the years
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and then recently within the vertical world.
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So that's it's that's been
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the last vertical that I did with Brett.
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I when I saw the audition notice, I thought he was on it.
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I purposely auditioned for it, thinking I was auditioning for a very small role.
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So I'm like, I'll only be on for a day.
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And then I end up being on for a week.
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And they end up having to change.
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Don't you hate it when that happens?
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Well, yeah, it was great.
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It was a great role.
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Well, well, the other thing, too, with that with that specific role.
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So like one of the actors.
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So so Chad played like the evil villain son of the main evil villain man.
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And the actor had started giving production
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like weird issues and like was like threatening production.
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So literally we were like, OK, well, thank you for your time.
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And we rewrote the script and we gave the dialogue to Chad's role.
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And then Chad, like he like he got all this dialogue
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like the night before came in and knocked it out of the park.
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That's really impressive.
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It's really impressive.
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I don't think we can just zoom past the guy was making threats to production.
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What did he say?
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I mean, what happened?
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What's that whole story?
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So so so the the character itself like had to be had to be like
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like he was he had to be actively sick in a scene.
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So like he continuously was like
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and like had to like cough.
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And like he was also he was doing it when he wasn't even on camera
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and no one had asked him to do it.
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And then and he had never had never said to anyone
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that it was an issue, you know.
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And then at the end of the day, he was he was like he like he was like,
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oh, I have to go to I don't know, to some doctor or something.
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And the bill and like the bill is this much.
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And I'm going to have this and like and like I'm going to be permanently damaged
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and done and like and we're like, wait, what?
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Like you didn't address anything with anybody.
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Like I talked to the director.
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I talked to I talked to everyone who was directly on set with him.
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I never heard anything.
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There were other producers on set.
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Nobody was told anything.
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And like this guy never complained about anything on set.
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So like literally the next morning, he like tried to get money out of us.
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And like, look, we were all about like, hey, like we'll take care of medical bills.
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Like if you had to go to the doctor, send us a receipt.
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We're you know, we're happy to do that.
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We're happy to take care of you.
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You know, tell us what the issue is.
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Why didn't you bring this up previously?
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And it turned into something where like then he started threatening,
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well, if you don't give me this much money,
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which was it was a large like it was just a random sum,
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like a large, random sum.
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And we're like, wait, like $200,000 large or or $14,000 large.
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Like, yeah, like it's more like the secondary number. Right.
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But like but still like for like a like maybe like a hundred dollar doctor
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appointment, you know what I mean?
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And we were even asked.
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We're like, yeah, send us the bill, like let us look at it.
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And then we were happy to reimburse.
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And then he started threatening, well, I'm not coming back to set.
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So like so at that point we were like, OK.
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And meanwhile, like like he was he was trying to say
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like he's he's physically inept and dadada.
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Meanwhile, like 10 days before he was hiking Machu Picchu
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and like he had this whole social media thing about like
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like 20 days hiking another country.
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And and he's complaining about something.
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And we're thinking like he's like, oh, the cough, you know, me coughing on set
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causes. And meanwhile, in production, we're like we're like, well,
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maybe it was the 20 days hiking across another country, you know,
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but like you should have brought it up anyway.
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He threatened not to come back.
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So we just we basically just agreed with him.
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We said, OK, like send us the medical bills, you know, send us a receipt.
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We'll cover you for that.
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If you don't feel comfortable coming back to set, that's fine.
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Thank you for everything that you've done.
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We'll figure it out.
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And, you know, I mean, that's production.
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So, yeah.
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And you were there as well, Chad.
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Yeah, Jonathan, the funny thing was, again, I only wanted I wanted a small part.
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The only reason I wanted a small part was just to work one day
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was I wanted to get on set to talk to Brett about writing for verticals.
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So then I get I get, you know, the casting director sends me the dates.
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And it's like it's it's I think it was four dates.
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I'm like, why am I in for four days?
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I've only got three lines.
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And so and of my three lines, the first line was, where is so and so?
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And then the next line, like there's some I saw some I saw.
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So it's like, why is so and so here?
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So when I got to set, I said, can I go talk to the director?
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And so he's very nice guy.
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So I was like, no, I'm lines aren't precious to me,
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but I think we need to cut one of my lines or I'm schizophrenic.
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And he reads the lines like, oh, yeah, that doesn't make any sense.
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And Brett, there was some there was another guy that was there.
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That was one of the was one of the guys allegedly allegedly I was told that later
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that he was one of the guys that helped decide, oh, just change it to Chad.
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I mean, I know that they were all involved in the conversation, but
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because I'd gone over and was like, yeah, I just want to make this work.
235
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And so they cut one of my lines.
236
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:34,919
And so for three days, of course, you know, in verticals,
237
00:13:34,919 --> 00:13:36,200
there's always a big banquet scene.
238
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So for three days, we're all talking, you know, it's, you know, Shakespeare.
239
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,119
And so then we do that.
240
00:13:44,119 --> 00:13:45,080
We finish the banquet scene.
241
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,719
I have one more day that I'm supposed to go back the next Monday.
242
00:13:48,359 --> 00:13:51,159
And at eleven thirty that night for a six thirty a.m.
243
00:13:51,159 --> 00:13:55,679
call time, I see the director's name pop up on my phone and I'm like, hello.
244
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,239
And he's like, hi, Chad, how are you?
245
00:13:57,239 --> 00:13:59,239
I'm like, I'm good.
246
00:13:59,239 --> 00:14:00,359
What's going on?
247
00:14:00,359 --> 00:14:02,000
And I think I'm going to be fired.
248
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,280
And so like he was calling me at eleven thirty to tell me I was fired.
249
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:05,719
So we've had a change.
250
00:14:05,719 --> 00:14:08,119
And then that's when he explained what had happened.
251
00:14:08,119 --> 00:14:10,119
And I'm like, and that's not going to make any sense.
252
00:14:10,119 --> 00:14:13,760
And so when I got on set that morning, I was having pages and like,
253
00:14:14,359 --> 00:14:16,799
can I make a suggestion about how to make this work?
254
00:14:16,799 --> 00:14:19,719
And so I added a couple of lines like I'm afraid of my father.
255
00:14:19,919 --> 00:14:23,599
That's why I don't speak for the last thirty five pages at this banquet scene.
256
00:14:23,599 --> 00:14:25,640
So it was so much fun.
257
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,880
And I mean, it was trial by fire
258
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,039
because getting all of those pages, you know, less than six hours later.
259
00:14:31,039 --> 00:14:34,559
And and the teams and also the team is really great.
260
00:14:34,559 --> 00:14:36,280
So everybody works really fast.
261
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:41,880
And but also they understand you just got all this dialogue just right now.
262
00:14:42,719 --> 00:14:44,039
And then I was on the poster.
263
00:14:44,039 --> 00:14:47,719
I got they I they added me to the like I'm a villain now.
264
00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:49,320
I'm a real short villain.
265
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,520
And and that was great.
266
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,520
And that kind of led to some other things.
267
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,880
And but then finally, on my last day, I got to talk to Brett
268
00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:58,679
and about writing some verticals.
269
00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:01,559
And Brett's been very supportive of showing me around.
270
00:15:01,559 --> 00:15:04,520
He's introduced me to people who have hired me as a writer.
271
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,840
So that was the whole reason that I wanted to.
272
00:15:08,239 --> 00:15:10,559
He was he was using me.
273
00:15:10,559 --> 00:15:13,400
I was using you the entire time. Thanks.
274
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,320
Well, you got you got an upgrade as an actor and you got a writing job out of it.
275
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,039
Jesus. Yeah, yeah.
276
00:15:20,039 --> 00:15:23,640
That's the best and weirdest story
277
00:15:24,719 --> 00:15:27,000
I've heard in quite a while.
278
00:15:27,359 --> 00:15:30,280
But but I also think, you know, listen, actors,
279
00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:33,599
if you don't want a guy to replace you,
280
00:15:33,599 --> 00:15:38,159
you have to follow the number one rule of show business,
281
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,119
which is don't be a dick.
282
00:15:41,559 --> 00:15:43,080
Don't be a dick.
283
00:15:43,679 --> 00:15:47,039
It's just that that's what I was going with.
284
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:48,960
That's what happened like 30 minutes ago.
285
00:15:49,159 --> 00:15:51,320
I was literally having this conversation 30 minutes ago.
286
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,280
That was the other reason I'm like, no, I'm not helping you.
287
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,520
I'm not. I'm not doing that because that production.
288
00:15:57,919 --> 00:16:00,400
Has been such a nightmare.
289
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,359
And so, yeah, don't be a dick.
290
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:04,799
It's really easy.
291
00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:06,080
It's so easy.
292
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,479
It's an easy rule, and I think it applies to both actors
293
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,960
and directors and casting and producers.
294
00:16:14,159 --> 00:16:17,640
If we all just remember that we're in this together,
295
00:16:17,799 --> 00:16:21,479
the industry is tough, but the people are great.
296
00:16:21,599 --> 00:16:25,799
If we can all remember that, then I think I won't replace us.
297
00:16:25,799 --> 00:16:27,599
But I will tell you this.
298
00:16:27,599 --> 00:16:32,159
If people keep having experiences like the ones you guys just talked about,
299
00:16:32,599 --> 00:16:35,599
I feel like it'd be a lot easier to just prompt
300
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,679
an AI guy to play the dad and to not cough
301
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,799
and to not have doctor bills.
302
00:16:43,799 --> 00:16:45,799
Wouldn't that be easier?
303
00:16:45,799 --> 00:16:49,719
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, it is interesting there.
304
00:16:49,719 --> 00:16:53,599
You know, there is a reason why producers go in a certain way.
305
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,599
You know, the path of least resistance a lot of the times
306
00:16:56,599 --> 00:16:58,440
and then obviously budgetary restrictions.
307
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,679
But then like, I mean, if there's a solution, producers are solution
308
00:17:02,679 --> 00:17:04,520
minded most of the time, right?
309
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:05,680
You know, I need a solution.
310
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:06,959
I'm I'm problem solving.
311
00:17:06,959 --> 00:17:11,760
Most of the producing is logic, you know, and then problem solving.
312
00:17:13,199 --> 00:17:14,959
Yeah, I don't know.
313
00:17:14,959 --> 00:17:18,479
That's just a good that's just a good motive or, you know, idea.
314
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:22,560
If as an actor, anyone in the industry or when I get on set as an actor,
315
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,479
I think my idea is be as 100 percent prepared
316
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,239
and make everybody's everybody else's life as easy as possible.
317
00:17:29,839 --> 00:17:32,280
You know, and I feel like that served me a lot.
318
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,560
And I've worked a lot because of that.
319
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,079
Yeah, there you go.
320
00:17:36,079 --> 00:17:43,079
Now, Chad, as a writer, do you utilize any forms of AI in your process?
321
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,479
OK, so I have not yet.
322
00:17:45,479 --> 00:17:48,560
I was listening to I was listening to your podcast last night,
323
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,040
and I do love what you guys talked about with decks.
324
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:57,359
I have utilized in creating a deck for for, of course, as the writer,
325
00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,920
you know, whenever you write a script, it seems like nowadays
326
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,560
we have to do everything for the producer, including like cast it
327
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,239
and, you know, get a deck going and get a budget done.
328
00:18:06,239 --> 00:18:08,680
It feels like I don't know why that's just my lot in life right now
329
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,079
with every production that I have.
330
00:18:10,079 --> 00:18:14,079
But we did I have a film based on the life of Malcolm Mitchell,
331
00:18:14,079 --> 00:18:16,719
who's a football player for UGA, former UGA player,
332
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,959
won the Super Bowl with Tom Brady several years ago.
333
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,560
He it's an incredible story.
334
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,400
His raised by a single mother in Valdosta, Georgia.
335
00:18:27,719 --> 00:18:30,839
And when he got to college, he realized he couldn't really read.
336
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,560
And so he taught himself to read through children's books at UGA.
337
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,199
And now he's a he writes children's books.
338
00:18:37,199 --> 00:18:40,959
And and he joined a book club with a bunch of old white women.
339
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,479
And so it was it's a really great story. And
340
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,839
so, again, with that film, my friend Stephanie Osteen,
341
00:18:49,239 --> 00:18:50,560
she wanted to she wanted to produce it.
342
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:51,959
So we we got Malcolm.
343
00:18:51,959 --> 00:18:54,239
We met the family and everybody did a script.
344
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,040
But then we had to do the the deck.
345
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,040
And so we did utilize AI with some of the creations of that deck.
346
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,000
And again, prompting and whatnot.
347
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,119
My whole thing with AI, I will say my one big thing with AI,
348
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,439
not less so about the is it
349
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,839
going to steal ideas or, you know, that.
350
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,280
But I'm worried about the water reservoirs. That's my whole thing.
351
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,800
I'm worried about like I'm killing a small community.
352
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,239
That's that's my big thing about using AI.
353
00:19:21,239 --> 00:19:23,319
My friend, Jessica, is constantly posting about that.
354
00:19:23,319 --> 00:19:26,119
So I'm constantly afraid that I'm killing a rainforest somewhere
355
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,040
whenever I use AI.
356
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,520
On the on the other side of that, I mean, like like people forget that,
357
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,560
like that, the water cooling systems, a lot of them are cyclical.
358
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,319
Like they recycle the water through.
359
00:19:37,319 --> 00:19:40,599
So it'll be cooled water through a hot machine cooled.
360
00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:42,359
You know, so a lot of that is cyclical.
361
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:43,920
There is evaporation.
362
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,439
Now, I don't know all the numbers.
363
00:19:46,439 --> 00:19:48,839
I can't give you all the numbers.
364
00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:51,319
I don't think it's as crazy as people actually think it is.
365
00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:53,479
I do think that's a marketing media campaign.
366
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,599
But on the other side of it,
367
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,359
you know, it's funny because I mean, Jonathan knows me
368
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,439
as long as we've been doing this, like I've been talking and excited about AI.
369
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,040
I'm finally at a point where I'm just I'm just exhausted.
370
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:13,400
I'm a little bit fried just because this the landscape is changing so rapidly.
371
00:20:13,599 --> 00:20:16,280
By the time you learn one of these programs,
372
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,160
like there's already 10 more iterations that have changed things dramatically.
373
00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:24,839
And then all this all this licensing stuff,
374
00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:28,280
especially when it comes to generative content and like
375
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,199
who really owns who really owns the stuff.
376
00:20:31,439 --> 00:20:32,839
Now, now, I do think
377
00:20:34,199 --> 00:20:37,599
I do personally, I think that every network and studio
378
00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:42,959
has an internal AI system that they haven't made publicized yet.
379
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,800
I think every network and studios is is experimenting with AI heavily.
380
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,920
The whole Brad Pitt company, Ben Affleck, I forget what it's called,
381
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,280
but he sold it to Netflix for 600 million dollars.
382
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,599
You know, they use like they film in like they film in like a gray space
383
00:20:59,599 --> 00:21:02,359
and they use LIDAR for spacing and the specs in the camera.
384
00:21:02,719 --> 00:21:04,839
And like, you know, and then they patented that.
385
00:21:04,839 --> 00:21:08,239
But I don't know how they can patent that when it's like a new like it's
386
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,839
it's just technology that people are experimenting with.
387
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,000
I understand how that whole thing works.
388
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,319
They're shooting one thing practically and then building everything else,
389
00:21:17,319 --> 00:21:21,000
you know, with generative AI, which I think is great.
390
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,239
You know, you still have the practical actors and then and then
391
00:21:25,239 --> 00:21:29,000
and then the environments and even the lighting, you can change the lighting now.
392
00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:31,880
But I don't know. It's crazy.
393
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,000
It's like it's anything that you can you can ask for.
394
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,359
You can just do now.
395
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:42,079
We're going to come to a world since everyone can create anything.
396
00:21:42,439 --> 00:21:44,959
We're going to come to a world, I think, with a couple of things.
397
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,560
One, the platforms are these generative platforms are going to have the power.
398
00:21:49,839 --> 00:21:54,640
You know, they're going to have the power with with either throttling generations,
399
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,640
you know, so like slowing people down, because I think I think first to release
400
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,479
in the world that we're going into is going to be is going to be the the the goal
401
00:22:03,479 --> 00:22:08,040
for a lot of these companies, you know, first first to get the new thing out there.
402
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:14,520
But like if you're just a hobbyist, you know, you you may have issues
403
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,599
if you're if you're not spending, you know, thousands of dollars
404
00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:22,160
a month on these platforms, you may not get the best service
405
00:22:22,719 --> 00:22:24,839
or the best generations.
406
00:22:24,839 --> 00:22:27,040
And then obviously it takes a lot of experimenting
407
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,000
and then just these these licenses.
408
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,719
We have to we have to look at, you know, what you put in there.
409
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,239
What are you giving them license to, you know, versus which platforms
410
00:22:38,599 --> 00:22:41,520
don't do that and let you generate no problem.
411
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,520
And then which platforms are doing that?
412
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,000
Anything by dances, I think, is very sketchy.
413
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,920
They try to I think they try to own everything. So.
414
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,839
Yeah, so like even everything.
415
00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:57,119
So we'll example like CapCut, like I've heard things
416
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,839
because CapCut is an editing system owned by ByteDance.
417
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,719
And this is allegedly I don't you know, I need to do more research on this,
418
00:23:04,719 --> 00:23:08,680
but I've heard things that whatever you input and edit in CapCut,
419
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,640
they, you know, ByteDance has a license to now. So.
420
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,719
Which is that I find I find that very hard to believe.
421
00:23:18,719 --> 00:23:21,280
I'm not saying I'm not saying I would.
422
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,359
It's a free it's a free edit.
423
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,560
You can it's a free editing program.
424
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,400
So like by signing the user agreement, are you reading everything
425
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,319
that you're signing when you sign that user agreement? No.
426
00:23:34,479 --> 00:23:37,199
I don't even read the words user agreement when I got it.
427
00:23:37,239 --> 00:23:39,719
I just I'm just clicking through to get to the thing.
428
00:23:42,239 --> 00:23:43,800
Yes. Oh, there we are.
429
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:44,599
All right.
430
00:23:45,199 --> 00:23:46,199
End of story.
431
00:23:46,199 --> 00:23:48,880
Are you are you watching the comeback this season?
432
00:23:50,199 --> 00:23:52,520
The comeback. I don't know what that is.
433
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,520
It's a Lisa Kudrow show on HBO.
434
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,520
No, no, not this week.
435
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,479
That's that's what this season is about.
436
00:23:58,479 --> 00:24:00,479
She's on a sitcom that they're using A.I.
437
00:24:00,479 --> 00:24:02,119
to to write the script.
438
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,040
And there's one writer who's just like manage the A.I.
439
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,319
And it's a really interesting.
440
00:24:08,439 --> 00:24:10,599
Really interesting arc for the season.
441
00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:13,680
So what were you saying, Brett?
442
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,599
No, I was just saying in the show, that's part of the story.
443
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,520
Yeah, that's the A storyline is that her show, she's
444
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,599
been called back to do a three camera sitcom with James Burroughs.
445
00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:26,239
And and it's a completely A.I.
446
00:24:26,239 --> 00:24:29,119
script, and she's afraid to tell anybody that it's an A.I.
447
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,280
company that's writing the script.
448
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,520
That's interesting.
449
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,479
Yeah, I so A.I.
450
00:24:36,479 --> 00:24:39,040
script writing for me this.
451
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,280
I do love the story.
452
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,040
Brett knows these people that I'm talking about the very first
453
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,439
how I came into the A.I.
454
00:24:46,439 --> 00:24:47,040
writing world.
455
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,839
And the reason I wanted to get with Brett is that as a as a writer
456
00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:54,239
and work in the crazy maple real short world.
457
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,079
Right. I had a friend who had a friend
458
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,920
who owns a property that a lot of these houses,
459
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,959
a lot of this vertical shoot out, and he wanted to get into producing.
460
00:25:07,439 --> 00:25:10,239
This man does not know anything about producing.
461
00:25:10,239 --> 00:25:12,040
He had sold a tech company years ago.
462
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,119
He had a lot of money and, you know, his excuse was, you know,
463
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,400
then he's perfect. Yeah.
464
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,880
You would. Well, you would think.
465
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,560
So, you know, all he knew was that verticals make millions of dollars.
466
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:24,880
So he wanted to make a vertical.
467
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,680
He creatively he knew nothing.
468
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,880
But whatever this thing is that he had, it was an A.I.
469
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,680
program. So he had been feeding it scripts.
470
00:25:34,239 --> 00:25:37,680
And that what the studio that I was working for
471
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,640
of, you know, I'm talking about it,
472
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,040
but he'd been feeding it scripts.
473
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,760
And then they sent me a script and they wanted he was going to
474
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,640
he was going to make this vertical. He's going to produce this vertical.
475
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,719
All I had, they told me, just search and search
476
00:25:53,719 --> 00:25:57,040
and replace the names of the characters and the locations.
477
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,560
That's all I had to change.
478
00:25:58,560 --> 00:25:59,640
And I was like, wait, what?
479
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,000
And what do you mean just change the names?
480
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,280
Because the name of the script was let's say it was something like
481
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,760
I accidentally slept with.
482
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,800
A professor or, you know, something like that.
483
00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:14,479
Let's vaguely maybe something about the title.
484
00:26:14,959 --> 00:26:18,079
And they wanted me to change it to a father's best friend.
485
00:26:18,439 --> 00:26:19,239
And it didn't make it.
486
00:26:19,239 --> 00:26:21,719
I'm like, so I when I started looking into it, I'm like,
487
00:26:21,719 --> 00:26:23,400
what do you mean change the setting?
488
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,680
And I was like, why did you change the dialogue?
489
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,599
I'm like, because one is a college professor.
490
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,000
The other is the father's best friend.
491
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,760
Why are all of these people randomly in this guy's house?
492
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,400
Like, that's not how writing works, my guy.
493
00:26:37,719 --> 00:26:39,520
And so he's like, oh, I thought you could just change that.
494
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,760
I'm like, no, that's how dumb this man was.
495
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,839
And so and this was my intro into the vertical world.
496
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,160
I mean, I've been writing scripts, you know, for years.
497
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,800
And so I'm like, no, it doesn't work that way.
498
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,719
So then the studio head was like, OK, well, I guess he can change it a little bit.
499
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,920
And so like like like that was OK, like I could change a little.
500
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,079
So as I started writing, well, then, of course, it didn't make any sense
501
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:05,760
because the the intents behind the characters didn't make sense.
502
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,479
And so he was like feeding the script through A.I.
503
00:27:08,479 --> 00:27:09,800
and telling me what to write.
504
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,880
And finally, I was like, I can't do any of this.
505
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,439
So I just wrote my script originally.
506
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,479
Not that I didn't look at any prompts that he was sending me or whatnot.
507
00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:20,160
And he never read the script.
508
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,520
And so he of course, he dropped my script into his A.I.
509
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,359
program and he said, you know, is this the did you did you use the A.I.?
510
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,040
I'm like, no, I'm not using A.I.
511
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,199
I said it's an original script.
512
00:27:33,199 --> 00:27:35,719
I had never written a vertical script before.
513
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,839
Audrey Dietz, who's an incredible director, she ended up directing.
514
00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:40,040
I brought her got her involved.
515
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:40,800
She directed it.
516
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,719
And it was the number one.
517
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,000
I think it's still on the platform.
518
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:51,239
It was the number one top film for that platform for six months.
519
00:27:51,479 --> 00:27:53,719
Wow. Congratulations.
520
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,839
But it was an original script.
521
00:27:55,839 --> 00:27:59,239
And again, it's the people like, yeah, you have all the tropes
522
00:27:59,239 --> 00:28:01,880
of like the billionaire, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
523
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,239
But it was an original script.
524
00:28:03,239 --> 00:28:06,160
And so I think there is a world out there where we can actually write
525
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,000
vertical scripts with an original thought.
526
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,359
And so, you know, I think the genre.
527
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,640
No, no, I agree. I agree 100 percent.
528
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:17,760
Don't laugh at me, John.
529
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,280
I'm not I'm not laughing at you.
530
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:25,040
I'm just I'm just putting myself in Chad's shoes for a moment
531
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:31,160
and thinking, you know, like I would if I had hair, I'd be pulling it out.
532
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,800
I trust stupid people, apparently.
533
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,079
That's that's my thing.
534
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:39,479
It's no, no, we're in an industry.
535
00:28:39,479 --> 00:28:41,560
We're in an industry that does that.
536
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:42,920
It's a stupid magnet.
537
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,119
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
538
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:47,280
No, no. Look, the whole vertical stuff like
539
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,800
I am a firm believer that like this is only the beginning of vertical.
540
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,119
You know where we are with these micro dramas
541
00:28:55,119 --> 00:28:57,800
and the genres that we're in and things like that.
542
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,800
I firmly believe that we are we're
543
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,880
we're getting ready to explode into all the other genres, original scripts.
544
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,880
You know, we're you know, I think the the Steven Spielberg
545
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,839
and I've said this before, the Steven Spielberg of verticals
546
00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:16,239
is out there and will make a vertical film that is so engaging
547
00:29:16,239 --> 00:29:20,800
and like uses uses the distribution method of the cell phone,
548
00:29:21,079 --> 00:29:24,640
you know, and really and really nails content doing that way.
549
00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:27,800
But yeah, you've said that oftentimes you say that a lot.
550
00:29:28,079 --> 00:29:31,599
And what I don't understand is why we haven't started doing this yet.
551
00:29:31,839 --> 00:29:33,719
I think they are. They they are.
552
00:29:33,719 --> 00:29:34,880
They're out there, dude.
553
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,079
Not they're not. Not they.
554
00:29:37,079 --> 00:29:41,439
Oh, no. You mean we and I and Chad, a great writer, Chad,
555
00:29:41,439 --> 00:29:44,479
like, you know, so many people in this industry
556
00:29:44,719 --> 00:29:50,280
that actually are cool to work with that are talented, that are experienced.
557
00:29:50,319 --> 00:29:52,719
That's a huge thing for me.
558
00:29:52,719 --> 00:29:54,280
Why not do this, Brett?
559
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:55,640
You know so much about it.
560
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,199
You've got good people in your corner.
561
00:29:58,319 --> 00:30:00,280
Let's go.
562
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,719
Well, it's time and it's time and money.
563
00:30:04,359 --> 00:30:06,359
I mean, really, that's the big thing.
564
00:30:06,359 --> 00:30:10,280
It's it's finding the investor who will take a risk on something original.
565
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,160
It's not a vampire billionaire werewolf.
566
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,359
Well, the other the other the other element, the other side of that, too,
567
00:30:16,359 --> 00:30:19,959
is like right now, you know, the only way to monetize these
568
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,400
is is these vertical platforms.
569
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:25,760
And and if you're going to go license content to them,
570
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,599
they're not going to they're not going to give you the revenue
571
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,839
that is going to be made.
572
00:30:30,839 --> 00:30:34,760
They're going to give you a flat licensing fee, you know, and then
573
00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:40,079
you're not going to you're not going to share in the real upside, you know.
574
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,880
And, you know, the the on a small independent level,
575
00:30:46,239 --> 00:30:48,640
you know, the idea of figuring out distribution
576
00:30:49,199 --> 00:30:51,479
to have an upside is the hard part.
577
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,119
You know, really?
578
00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:55,599
Because, you know, you could you like I said, you could license
579
00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:59,199
to one of these companies, you know, you could go out and make and, you know,
580
00:30:59,199 --> 00:31:03,520
but you're just creating a job for yourself where, you know, you're you're
581
00:31:03,719 --> 00:31:06,640
you're spending money, you're barely making some money,
582
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,479
and then you have to do it all over again.
583
00:31:08,479 --> 00:31:10,599
You know, I mean, you're just creating a job for yourself.
584
00:31:10,599 --> 00:31:14,760
And even even even as a vendor company, you know, like it's just a job.
585
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:15,880
It's a single job.
586
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,640
You know, you're not sharing in the big upside of it all.
587
00:31:19,599 --> 00:31:24,199
You know, my thought process behind it, right, is as an independent filmmaker,
588
00:31:24,199 --> 00:31:29,680
my thought process is like make a vertical, you know, make make make
589
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,719
make the engaging, wonderful story that you want to make
590
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,040
and then put it on every vertical distribution platform
591
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,079
that's free in social media world.
592
00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:43,560
So YouTube reels, Instagram reels, Twitter, Snapchat, you know,
593
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,800
data, data, data, data, you know, like and find the name,
594
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,760
find a name that you can get consistently across all the platforms.
595
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,000
So it's all cross promotional.
596
00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:00,199
And then just and then just put your, you know, put your episodes online.
597
00:32:00,199 --> 00:32:04,319
And what I would do, and I've talked about this before, is like I have rehearsed
598
00:32:04,319 --> 00:32:06,880
now I have Ellie reels, I have Brett Newton as an actor.
599
00:32:07,199 --> 00:32:12,199
I would I would make my content on these verticals completely free.
600
00:32:12,199 --> 00:32:14,640
So I would turn ads off on the platform
601
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,000
so they couldn't put commercials on my stuff.
602
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,800
And then I would just build and shoot my own commercials into it.
603
00:32:21,199 --> 00:32:24,319
So then it would be part of the content already.
604
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,239
You know, so then so really we're just making a commercial piece of,
605
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,040
you know, we're making good content, but the whole thing has a commercial
606
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,400
with my, you know, to to make me revenue directly.
607
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,199
You know what I mean?
608
00:32:38,199 --> 00:32:42,280
Or or I get a sponsor and someone pays me $10,000
609
00:32:42,479 --> 00:32:47,400
and I put their brand within the within the the show or something.
610
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:48,040
You know what I mean?
611
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,119
We're in a world like because all these systems are there,
612
00:32:53,119 --> 00:32:56,160
Ava, their SVAD, their ads, you know, their coins.
613
00:32:56,319 --> 00:32:59,599
Like it's all of the it's all of the ways.
614
00:32:59,839 --> 00:33:01,959
We're going to ask you what those words are.
615
00:33:01,959 --> 00:33:04,839
You just said so advertising video on demand.
616
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,119
So like like like to be right is it's free to watch,
617
00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:13,359
but you have to watch ads subscription video on demand SVAD.
618
00:33:13,479 --> 00:33:17,839
So like Netflix is you have to pay to to do Netflix.
619
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,599
And Netflix is now a double model.
620
00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:22,119
It's SVAD and AVAD.
621
00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:27,719
You have to pay the higher tier of the SVAD in order to not have advertisements.
622
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,280
And a lot of these a lot of these platforms are doing that.
623
00:33:30,439 --> 00:33:34,959
And I mean, like, and the the the vertical platforms are are very similar,
624
00:33:34,959 --> 00:33:38,760
except the vertical platforms come from a gaming background.
625
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,719
And it's funny because like
626
00:33:42,239 --> 00:33:45,439
I like three years ago, I realized this, you know,
627
00:33:45,439 --> 00:33:48,079
when I started kind of being a part of the system.
628
00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:51,079
But like the vertical platforms come from a gaming background.
629
00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:56,160
So like the way that the verticals work, you know, it's coin based.
630
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,280
It's advertising based. It's subscription based.
631
00:33:59,479 --> 00:34:04,040
But like that's the gaming model of like, remember, you download a free game.
632
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,280
You'd have you'd get to play like five levels for free.
633
00:34:07,439 --> 00:34:10,040
And then it'd be harder to get to the next level.
634
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,439
Either you had to watch ads.
635
00:34:11,439 --> 00:34:13,840
You had to buy coins. You had to buy a subscription.
636
00:34:13,959 --> 00:34:18,520
That's exactly the model that we're in right now for for for verticals,
637
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,800
you know, and that's all of them. That's all of them.
638
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,399
So so like when when I look at it as an independent filmmaker,
639
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,959
you know, like like the only way out is to get is
640
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,840
is what I said previously about putting my content out
641
00:34:32,959 --> 00:34:35,040
where people already exist.
642
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:40,040
And then hopefully, you know, my commercials generate my own personal revenue.
643
00:34:40,399 --> 00:34:42,800
Dude, the cost.
644
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,320
I was watching an Instagram video from like one of those not producer, Patrick,
645
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,840
but one of those guys.
646
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,600
And, you know, and they're saying that 90 percent of the revenue generated
647
00:34:53,959 --> 00:34:58,719
go of all these vertical companies go to marketing.
648
00:34:58,959 --> 00:35:01,800
Not to production, clearly marketing.
649
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,520
To marketing, they're at their user acquisition machines.
650
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,760
That's a quote from the video I watched.
651
00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:12,639
So and I mean, there's there's there's truth to that.
652
00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:17,639
You know, I mean, like that's why I wouldn't start my own vertical app
653
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:23,000
because I mean, the how much money they're spending to compete in this world.
654
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,040
If you have your own vertical app is tremendously crazy.
655
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,879
But if the content is better.
656
00:35:33,879 --> 00:35:37,280
And meaningful, yeah, if the acting is good,
657
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,000
if the stories are moving,
658
00:35:41,959 --> 00:35:46,280
then, OK, you might not make 100 billion dollars
659
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,360
like real short or any of these big companies,
660
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,520
but you might be able to to make a pretty decent
661
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,280
a income based on loyal
662
00:36:00,439 --> 00:36:03,199
appreciators, loyal viewers and customers.
663
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,120
You have to build that audience.
664
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,159
You have to build that model.
665
00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:12,800
Like, I mean, I totally optimistic with you, John.
666
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,120
But like what I'm saying is that the model, as is right now
667
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,520
to distribute a vertical to create a vertical is one thing to make the movie
668
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:22,320
is one thing.
669
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,080
And I mean, this has always been the the filmmaker dilemma.
670
00:36:25,159 --> 00:36:26,120
You make the movie now.
671
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,439
What the fuck do you do with it?
672
00:36:27,439 --> 00:36:30,879
You know, but you know, and people don't realize
673
00:36:30,879 --> 00:36:34,520
that distribution is just as hard or even harder than making the actual thing.
674
00:36:34,879 --> 00:36:39,800
You know, so but the filmmaker's dilemma is like like you could go
675
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,520
and now sell it and license it to one of these apps.
676
00:36:42,639 --> 00:36:46,479
So let's say let's say on a cheap side, let's say you do this super cheap
677
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,520
and it costs you fifty thousand dollars, which is I mean, it's you could,
678
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,040
but it's going to very, very, very, very, very far.
679
00:36:55,479 --> 00:37:00,080
And then let's say you go and, you know, you license it to one company at a time.
680
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,520
So, yeah, maybe you could do that.
681
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,800
Maybe you can make you know, maybe you can make some money on that,
682
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,080
you know, after after you make your budget back.
683
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,159
But I mean, you're just creating a job, you know, and like now,
684
00:37:14,159 --> 00:37:17,000
like the does the library of content matter?
685
00:37:17,399 --> 00:37:20,679
There's so much content, you know, unless it's a big,
686
00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:25,479
amazing movie that really generates enough audience,
687
00:37:25,479 --> 00:37:28,919
you know, want and need, you know, becomes a cliche,
688
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,360
I guess a movie of the century is like that people talk about forever.
689
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,479
But I mean, like there's so much content now.
690
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,120
I don't know, like like that's why I see
691
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,760
like the whole idea of the whole social media thing
692
00:37:43,959 --> 00:37:46,679
of making your own thing and putting it on every platform.
693
00:37:47,679 --> 00:37:51,040
Across all platforms, you know, uniquely the same
694
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:54,679
with your own with your own stuff in it.
695
00:37:54,679 --> 00:37:59,000
You know, I like that's the only revenue model
696
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,840
that I see where an independent person can do it
697
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,320
without creating a job for themselves, where they are, you know,
698
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,439
where they make a film, sell it, get some money, make a film, sell it,
699
00:38:10,439 --> 00:38:14,199
get some money, but it's not going to it's not going to serve them forever.
700
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,760
It's going to be a job, you know, so.
701
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,360
Yeah. Does that make sense?
702
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,280
Kind of. What do you think, Chad?
703
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,639
I'm just like absorbing everything you say.
704
00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:28,959
Yeah, because there's right now it feels like every week
705
00:38:28,959 --> 00:38:33,199
there's a new person who's got a vertical studio they're throwing out or like.
706
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,800
Producers that we work with that are like, oh, I'm working for this new company now,
707
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,239
and it was just great like that, that's more jobs.
708
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,600
And I and I'm right now, this was not where I was
709
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,159
working last year.
710
00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:47,639
I mean, last year sucked.
711
00:38:47,639 --> 00:38:49,479
And so it's nice to have these little
712
00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:53,399
these little verticals come in that I can cast.
713
00:38:53,399 --> 00:38:58,040
And I don't know how it is for Brett, but I mean, I'm what I'm
714
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,919
I'm not being getting paid a lot of money for these for my casting.
715
00:39:01,919 --> 00:39:04,000
But at the same time, I'm also not working.
716
00:39:05,439 --> 00:39:06,959
Over three months.
717
00:39:06,959 --> 00:39:10,120
So as a casting director, a lot of times I'm getting paid a set fee.
718
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,639
And then a random morning will wake up and then they want suddenly dead bodies
719
00:39:14,639 --> 00:39:15,800
on set in 45 minutes.
720
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,719
And like, you know, that's not that's still part of my job.
721
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,520
I don't get paid on the per talent basis thing.
722
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,080
Whereas I'll get hired to cast a film.
723
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,919
We're doing callbacks next Friday.
724
00:39:27,919 --> 00:39:31,560
So if that had been a feature film, I might go up on my rate a little bit.
725
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,959
But for the verticals, I'm only working for two or three weeks.
726
00:39:34,399 --> 00:39:36,959
So it's good money for two or three weeks of work.
727
00:39:37,439 --> 00:39:39,679
And it has been pretty consistent for me.
728
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,399
And so.
729
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,639
Sorry, I just tell off that conversation.
730
00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:47,800
That's OK. It's very interesting what you're saying.
731
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,320
Well, like, yeah, as a look, as an independent contractor
732
00:39:52,439 --> 00:39:57,360
to get like a good job here and there, but like as a as a as a filmmaker, John,
733
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,679
and what you're talking about is like, why aren't we making our own verticals
734
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:05,120
that are great, written well, produced well, acted well and then distributed?
735
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,320
Right. And what I'm saying is like, I want to do that.
736
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:09,760
I want to do that.
737
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:15,679
But like, you know, but but what we all want is to make that amazing
738
00:40:15,679 --> 00:40:18,040
independent film or vertical.
739
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:24,479
And then and then we want to thrive in the outcome of the revenue.
740
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,280
You know, like we all want to create something that is one.
741
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,320
I mean, what do we love in this industry?
742
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:31,600
We love residuals.
743
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,840
You know, residuals are slowly dying, you know, and they have been,
744
00:40:36,199 --> 00:40:41,919
you know, and one of that is because, you know, the models are changing,
745
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:47,159
like the distribution models and the platforms in which we watch content,
746
00:40:47,159 --> 00:40:50,840
the way we watch and ingest content has changed dramatically
747
00:40:50,959 --> 00:40:54,959
and the amount of content and the ability for anybody to create content.
748
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,239
And now we're getting into a world where now machines will start creating content.
749
00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:04,080
And don't fool yourselves, because I will start generating its own content.
750
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:05,760
And it already is.
751
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,959
But it will get better and it will get better and it will get better.
752
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:15,000
But like, you know, like as a I do think we're going to we're moving into a world
753
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,679
where like, you know, the good the good stuff will rise to the top.
754
00:41:18,679 --> 00:41:22,560
Obviously, you do need some exposure and exposure,
755
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,159
I think, is the hardest thing to create right now.
756
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,439
You can create great content, but creating exposure,
757
00:41:29,439 --> 00:41:33,639
distribution and getting the eyeballs, it's the hardest thing ever.
758
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:40,199
Are you telling me, Brett Newton, executive producer
759
00:41:40,439 --> 00:41:43,760
of the biggest vertical company in the world,
760
00:41:44,399 --> 00:41:47,040
are you telling me that you would have a hard time.
761
00:41:48,399 --> 00:41:53,560
Distributing content that you created yourself with your team.
762
00:41:54,959 --> 00:41:58,840
So so I could I could go like it if I was
763
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,879
if I was going to create my own content, my own my own movie, my own vertical.
764
00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:05,959
Yes. Yeah, I could.
765
00:42:05,959 --> 00:42:10,040
I could license it probably to to one of these companies.
766
00:42:11,399 --> 00:42:12,719
That's not what I mean.
767
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,159
And for a fit. Yes.
768
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:17,159
Brett Newton. Yeah, I don't I don't have a huge social media following.
769
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,199
I don't have a huge following, you know, like I don't have an audience.
770
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,439
But your job and your experience and your name in that industry
771
00:42:26,639 --> 00:42:30,080
would get you at least into rooms or Zoom rooms.
772
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,000
And I didn't mean to turn this into like, let's do it.
773
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:38,120
I'm just saying, if anybody could, sir, I think you're one of those people.
774
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,399
Didn't you start an A.I.
775
00:42:41,479 --> 00:42:44,120
company called Rehearse Now dot A.I., by the way,
776
00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:48,800
where you can go to that website and actually use it for free
777
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,000
to see how great it is?
778
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,000
You're welcome for that plug.
779
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,800
I'm sure everything that you just told me
780
00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:58,919
applies to starting your own A.I. company.
781
00:42:59,399 --> 00:43:01,879
You got to have the money. You're creating a job.
782
00:43:01,879 --> 00:43:06,760
It's difficult to get people to know it, know about it and see it.
783
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:08,399
Yet you did it.
784
00:43:08,399 --> 00:43:13,239
I'm not saying it's making you a trillionaire right now, but you did it.
785
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,439
Yeah. As impossible as it is to own your own A.I. company.
786
00:43:17,479 --> 00:43:19,479
You did it. Yes.
787
00:43:20,199 --> 00:43:24,479
Yes. But but but also like like at the same time, like I'm building,
788
00:43:24,959 --> 00:43:28,399
like I'm building that and it takes a lot of work. Yes.
789
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:33,479
And like and like like do I have the numbers of users that I want?
790
00:43:33,479 --> 00:43:35,439
No. Do we have users?
791
00:43:35,439 --> 00:43:37,520
Is it growing slowly? Yes.
792
00:43:37,879 --> 00:43:40,600
But like, do I want it to grow faster? Yes.
793
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,959
But it's not this instant gratification that most people think it is.
794
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:48,639
And like the thing like, look, I made my first feature film,
795
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,679
you know, Scramble.
796
00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:55,639
We made it and it was we raised twenty thousand dollars.
797
00:43:55,679 --> 00:44:00,600
We ended up spending like 80,000, you know, said all said and done.
798
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,919
It was a it was a like a 20 day shoot over six months
799
00:44:06,199 --> 00:44:09,959
because we didn't have all the money and I'll never I'll never do that again.
800
00:44:09,959 --> 00:44:12,000
That was a lesson learned.
801
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,320
But like, you know, you know, our lead actress quit four days
802
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:16,719
in the principal photography.
803
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:21,320
We had to digitally, facially replace her in 2015.
804
00:44:21,639 --> 00:44:25,360
You know, boy, after that, I said, boy, after that,
805
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,080
I said, I said, I'm never worried about continuity ever again.
806
00:44:29,199 --> 00:44:32,719
Did it look just like like a construction paper or like a magazine
807
00:44:32,959 --> 00:44:35,800
face, like stuck on somebody like like South Park?
808
00:44:36,959 --> 00:44:39,439
You were in the closure, which is kind of moving from room to room.
809
00:44:39,439 --> 00:44:40,439
Wouldn't know.
810
00:44:40,439 --> 00:44:43,280
Yeah. My business partner at the time, Noah Edward Scott,
811
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,800
he he he framed the heck out of it.
812
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,800
What we did was like we recast her middle of the movie.
813
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:50,919
We went and we shot everything.
814
00:44:50,919 --> 00:44:52,479
We edited the entire movie.
815
00:44:52,479 --> 00:44:56,399
And then the scenes where the original girl was,
816
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,199
we figured out the exact angles.
817
00:44:58,199 --> 00:45:01,760
We reshot her on a green screen and then we put her face
818
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,239
on the other girl's body.
819
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,760
And this is back in like 2015, 2016.
820
00:45:06,959 --> 00:45:09,120
So like technology was not where it is now.
821
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,040
Now it's now that's very easy to do.
822
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,520
You just tell a guy to do it.
823
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,479
I want to I want to move away from me
824
00:45:15,479 --> 00:45:18,000
trying to convince you to open your own your own thing.
825
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,280
Well, well, well, hang on.
826
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:20,479
Well, let me get it.
827
00:45:20,479 --> 00:45:26,479
So but my point is we go through this long, grueling process of filmmaking
828
00:45:26,959 --> 00:45:29,080
and it was great. It was incredible.
829
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,399
And, you know, we learned so much by I mean, a lot of what I do now.
830
00:45:32,399 --> 00:45:35,719
I learned from planting those ideas and things back then.
831
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,199
But like, you know, and then, you know, we spent so many man hours
832
00:45:41,199 --> 00:45:45,399
that we didn't pay ourselves for, you know, and so much resources.
833
00:45:45,679 --> 00:45:49,520
And then, you know, we we we sell it to a distributor,
834
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:54,040
Gravitas Entertainment, who like who like in their contract,
835
00:45:54,159 --> 00:45:58,320
you know, we got a small NG, like less than 10 percent of what we,
836
00:45:58,399 --> 00:45:59,879
you know, spent on it.
837
00:45:59,879 --> 00:46:01,879
That's the company with the napkin logo, right?
838
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,000
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
839
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,199
Yeah. It's a big, yeah, it's a big thing.
840
00:46:06,199 --> 00:46:09,639
But but like the way that they write their contract is like,
841
00:46:09,639 --> 00:46:12,040
well, you owe us for this. You owe us for this.
842
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,280
So the movie makes so much money
843
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,280
and then they get most of it.
844
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,600
And we did all the hard work
845
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,360
and then we get a check for one hundred dollars once a year.
846
00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:24,280
You know what I mean?
847
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,800
And I mean, like so like distribution is
848
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,719
is the hardest thing and people need to understand that, you know,
849
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,360
like that's probably something, you know, it's probably my biggest fear.
850
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,280
Like if I if I needed a business partner, I need I need someone
851
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,520
who is a distributor, knows how to distribute and make money distributing,
852
00:46:42,919 --> 00:46:45,639
you know, but I think that's one of the hardest things.
853
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,719
That's one of the hardest things to do in this industry,
854
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,080
especially since the landscape is changing so quickly.
855
00:46:51,639 --> 00:46:56,360
So but yeah, look, look, John, if if someone
856
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:01,360
if if someone would just pay me to make my own movies, then hell yeah.
857
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:07,479
I understand. I mean, what do you think about these like drama pops,
858
00:47:07,479 --> 00:47:13,040
which just I did a film with them, these titles bound to my hot rival,
859
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,239
which the kid who plays my son.
860
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:20,360
I mean, he he looks just like Conner Story from Hated Rivalry.
861
00:47:20,399 --> 00:47:23,239
I mean, like at one point, I said, is that your real?
862
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:24,439
He goes, no, this is Hated Rivalry.
863
00:47:24,439 --> 00:47:26,959
I'm like, oh, my God, you look just like this kid.
864
00:47:26,959 --> 00:47:30,679
And again, talented actors found Smith directed it.
865
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,120
It looks gorgeous.
866
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,199
It's getting really great reviews.
867
00:47:34,199 --> 00:47:36,520
But we shot horizontally and vertically.
868
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,639
So like you can turn your phone and watch it horizontally as well.
869
00:47:41,879 --> 00:47:46,320
What do you think about that tech technologically with like.
870
00:47:47,479 --> 00:47:51,239
Well, so I so drama pops is the app, so I don't know about them.
871
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,919
I'm sure I do know that.
872
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,199
Quibi was that, you know, Quibi was horizontal and vertical.
873
00:48:01,199 --> 00:48:02,120
Like, oh, I didn't know that.
874
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,719
Yeah, I didn't know that either.
875
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,520
You could turn the phone horizontal and you could see it all
876
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,800
or you could turn it vertical and it would all be vertical.
877
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,760
Allegedly there they had stolen.
878
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:17,800
Allegedly they had stolen the the software or the software was not entirely theirs.
879
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,120
So there was allegedly going to be a lawsuit before they shut it all down.
880
00:48:22,399 --> 00:48:24,360
But we all know how that ended.
881
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,840
So so but like production value.
882
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,679
Yeah, I think that's awesome.
883
00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:31,719
I do. I do.
884
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,719
I do think that in the future for every independent filmmaker,
885
00:48:34,919 --> 00:48:38,280
when you go to a distributor, they're going to ask you
886
00:48:38,479 --> 00:48:41,560
for both assets, the horizontal and the vertical asset.
887
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,600
You know, and and I mean, like the way that it's filming on set now,
888
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,719
like you either have to film in a larger resolution
889
00:48:49,959 --> 00:48:53,600
and then on monitor, know what your composition is vertically
890
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,639
and know what your composition is horizontally.
891
00:48:55,639 --> 00:49:00,399
Or you have to, you know, cut, you know, shoot horizontally later,
892
00:49:00,399 --> 00:49:04,840
edit in vertically and then generate the rest of the frame.
893
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:06,879
You know what I mean?
894
00:49:06,959 --> 00:49:08,199
There's options out there.
895
00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:12,679
But yeah, I mean, look, that's just what I'm saying about,
896
00:49:13,199 --> 00:49:18,040
you know, verticals expanding, you know, and we're at the beginning of it.
897
00:49:18,439 --> 00:49:19,800
You know? Yeah.
898
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,760
I mean, the thing is, is
899
00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:26,120
I think the imagination of every every what everyone is thinking
900
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:27,479
is going to come true.
901
00:49:27,479 --> 00:49:30,439
It's just there's going to be so much content.
902
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:32,879
There's going to be so much content.
903
00:49:32,879 --> 00:49:36,159
So it's like you got to get through the noise, you know?
904
00:49:36,679 --> 00:49:41,959
Yeah, I think that that is not necessarily a bad thing.
905
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:47,479
I like that people, even right now, can take their phone,
906
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,520
get with their group of friends and go out and make content,
907
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:52,560
go and make something.
908
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,959
And if it's good, people will watch it because we're so
909
00:49:56,679 --> 00:50:00,479
we're inundated with what do they call it? Slop.
910
00:50:01,199 --> 00:50:03,399
And sometimes it's not a generated slop.
911
00:50:03,479 --> 00:50:07,919
Sometimes it's been cast and produced and filmed and distributed,
912
00:50:07,919 --> 00:50:09,679
and it's still garbage.
913
00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:11,199
And you know what I'm talking about.
914
00:50:11,199 --> 00:50:14,040
So if people can get out there and make something great,
915
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:19,199
I don't want folks to think that it's not worth doing it.
916
00:50:19,199 --> 00:50:21,399
It absolutely is worth doing it.
917
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,320
Don't bet the farm on it.
918
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,479
You know, you got to have other things that you're doing.
919
00:50:26,479 --> 00:50:30,159
But somebody is going to make it
920
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,520
and you're never going to have a shot at it.
921
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,840
I don't mean you, but I mean, dear listener,
922
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,399
you'll never have to have a shot at it if you don't
923
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,280
line up your sights and take that shot.
924
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,760
And I think it's an accessible way into the industry right now.
925
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:44,520
There you go.
926
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,479
He is like, I know that just on the the shorts,
927
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,080
the vertical, because as more and more people are making them,
928
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,679
there's less and less crew because, oh, I'm on that thing.
929
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,719
Oh, you're trying to try to have that crew.
930
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,000
And and it has been my experience
931
00:50:59,399 --> 00:51:01,760
that working with Brett, working with Michael Sokol,
932
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,520
working with Audrey Jeets, everybody is so kind.
933
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,879
And so those are the sets you want to work on.
934
00:51:06,879 --> 00:51:10,239
And you do feel like you are learning and everybody is very patient.
935
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,639
And and if there is a problem, that problem gets fixed.
936
00:51:13,959 --> 00:51:17,760
And so for me, like these
937
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,560
all these children graduating from college,
938
00:51:20,679 --> 00:51:22,600
I'm telling them, like, go work in the vertical world,
939
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,199
because also friends of mine who are writers, it's like we've been
940
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,639
I've got scripts that I've been sitting on for 15 years
941
00:51:28,639 --> 00:51:29,840
and I can't get anybody to look at them.
942
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,000
But then if I turn it into a vertical and pitch it, suddenly it's like,
943
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,280
yeah, go write that right now.
944
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:35,520
We'll shoot that next month.
945
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,479
And wow. Wow.
946
00:51:37,479 --> 00:51:39,439
I've got an arsenal of rom-coms that
947
00:51:40,879 --> 00:51:43,399
as we're moving away from vampire werewolf billionaires,
948
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,600
they are you know, they're looking for they're looking for rom-coms now.
949
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,879
They're looking for more hallmarky things.
950
00:51:49,879 --> 00:51:51,760
Some of these platforms, some of the platforms I'm working with.
951
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,000
And so those are.
952
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,719
Yeah, it's still some of them kind of have a trite
953
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,600
a tropes that are in there.
954
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,959
But for me right now, it's it's it's a way to stay fresh as a writer
955
00:52:06,399 --> 00:52:07,919
and to get those pitches.
956
00:52:07,919 --> 00:52:12,120
And also, where else can you work in an industry
957
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,000
where it's like, just send us the pitch and then we'll go from there?
958
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,760
So many times it's like they want to strip the budget, the cast.
959
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,959
They want everything before they'll even consider looking at it.
960
00:52:20,399 --> 00:52:22,959
So, I mean, I mean, it is 100 million percent
961
00:52:22,959 --> 00:52:25,320
providing all sorts of jobs and opportunity.
962
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:26,800
Don't get me wrong.
963
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,239
I'm I'm going off of Jonathan's, you know,
964
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:35,760
Jonathan's proposal of going out and making, you know, my own movie.
965
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:40,520
Yeah. But but like, you know, like the movies that I'm making and producing now,
966
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,679
like there's a studio and budget behind it.
967
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,040
Like, look, if I had an infinite amount of resources and money
968
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,760
and my mortgage was paid off and I'd have to worry about feeding my two children
969
00:52:50,199 --> 00:52:54,600
like I would be making my own content all day long, you know.
970
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,120
Um, sure, sure.
971
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,679
I like I don't want to spend too much time on that.
972
00:53:00,679 --> 00:53:02,639
But I mean, we've already done that.
973
00:53:02,639 --> 00:53:06,639
I'm just saying there's a there's a way to put a group together.
974
00:53:06,639 --> 00:53:09,439
Maybe the actors, they're not working.
975
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,639
They don't get paid regularly anyway.
976
00:53:12,639 --> 00:53:15,199
So maybe they'll like I would do this.
977
00:53:15,439 --> 00:53:20,399
I would invest my time to be in your short or your vertical
978
00:53:20,879 --> 00:53:25,439
in exchange for a percentage of of equity in the company or something.
979
00:53:25,439 --> 00:53:30,639
And you don't need brand new actors for every single episode or whatever.
980
00:53:30,639 --> 00:53:31,639
Every single film.
981
00:53:31,639 --> 00:53:33,879
Why not have a core group?
982
00:53:33,879 --> 00:53:35,760
And they've got equity in it.
983
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,080
And and the story progresses or you've got multiple stories.
984
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:43,479
You've got, you know, in this film, James plays the lead.
985
00:53:43,479 --> 00:53:45,560
And in the next film, James plays the villain.
986
00:53:45,879 --> 00:53:50,679
I think there's room for that now, just like a theatrical troupe or something.
987
00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:53,080
But I do have a couple of questions.
988
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,800
I think within six months, you're going to see that because now that you've got
989
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:00,120
Taye Diggs working, now that SAG has a contract for talent,
990
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:05,399
I think you are going to have like a like a 2027 Mary Pickford come together,
991
00:54:05,399 --> 00:54:06,919
start her own studio.
992
00:54:06,919 --> 00:54:08,679
And it could be like that.
993
00:54:08,679 --> 00:54:10,600
That was her name, Molly Anderson.
994
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:11,520
She's so talented.
995
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:12,600
She's a vertical star.
996
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,360
She does like a bunch of real stories.
997
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:15,239
She's got a really great social.
998
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,600
I think it's Molly Anderson is her name.
999
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:18,560
She's so talented.
1000
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:19,840
She creates a lot of her own.
1001
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,320
I think and, you know, she was on the cover of People magazine
1002
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,719
when they were doing the whole like the vertical stars.
1003
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,959
Those and again, like those kids for real short,
1004
00:54:29,959 --> 00:54:31,679
they command some good money.
1005
00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:34,879
So at some point they're going to figure out, OK, I'm worth this much.
1006
00:54:35,199 --> 00:54:38,199
Then if I go find a billionaire.
1007
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:42,280
And where will create the one best in me?
1008
00:54:42,399 --> 00:54:43,760
Yeah, exactly.
1009
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,679
That that should be a short
1010
00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:48,919
a vertical star goes off, start their own company with.
1011
00:54:49,959 --> 00:54:51,239
You know what I love?
1012
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:55,679
Like like you see all these brands are now like creating vertical series.
1013
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:00,520
Yeah, like like they're all over, you know, they're all over Instagram now,
1014
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:04,959
which which I which, you know, going back to the what I was saying earlier
1015
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,120
about creating your own shows like I really do think like
1016
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:13,040
if you want to create your own show and own it and and create the IP
1017
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,800
and own the IP and like reap the real rewards,
1018
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,360
you know, you would just create your own content and have it.
1019
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,879
You know, you have to commit to it, first and foremost.
1020
00:55:23,159 --> 00:55:27,479
But creating a vertical show and then having it live on all of the platforms,
1021
00:55:27,479 --> 00:55:31,679
all of the free social media channels, you know, you have to
1022
00:55:31,679 --> 00:55:35,639
you do kind of have to build the audience like like like you said, Jonathan,
1023
00:55:35,639 --> 00:55:38,280
like, you know, build your audience and your niche.
1024
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,399
I mean, that's essentially what Issa Rae did, you know.
1025
00:55:42,639 --> 00:55:45,719
And, you know, but it was a different time,
1026
00:55:46,159 --> 00:55:48,919
you know, different time than we're in now.
1027
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:54,280
I think what we've all realized is how much people really are engaging
1028
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,760
content on their phones and and on social media.
1029
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,520
I mean, I feel like the whole freaking world is on social media.
1030
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:06,679
And like I know every single person says if this went away today,
1031
00:56:06,679 --> 00:56:09,120
I would be happier, but I'm still so addicted.
1032
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,320
You know, I don't feel that way at all.
1033
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,159
Not at all.
1034
00:56:14,159 --> 00:56:16,719
You're talking about social media or the phone itself?
1035
00:56:16,959 --> 00:56:19,239
No social media. I love it.
1036
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:20,199
Yeah, I love it.
1037
00:56:20,199 --> 00:56:22,439
Now, I'm not I'm not glued to it.
1038
00:56:22,919 --> 00:56:26,679
Yeah, but I love having immediate access
1039
00:56:26,959 --> 00:56:29,280
to other people, other ideas.
1040
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,840
There's no real like new idea out there, right?
1041
00:56:32,879 --> 00:56:37,120
I love watching what somebody else is doing and then trying to form
1042
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:42,040
my own version of that if it's something that I am passionate about or care about.
1043
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:47,520
It I love having information at my fingertips.
1044
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,959
I love it. Speaking of information, I want to get two bits of information
1045
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:53,479
from you, Chad.
1046
00:56:53,479 --> 00:56:57,280
Vertical copywriting or script writing, I should say.
1047
00:56:57,959 --> 00:57:03,239
You're a screenwriter and a casting director and an actor and a director.
1048
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,959
How is script writing different
1049
00:57:07,399 --> 00:57:11,879
in the vertical format versus the landscape?
1050
00:57:12,679 --> 00:57:16,959
So I'm working on a script right now that I I'm working for a producer,
1051
00:57:16,959 --> 00:57:18,560
Peter Sullivan, who I adore.
1052
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:22,320
I did a Lifetime movie with him last year, and it was the most fun I've ever had.
1053
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:27,040
And he's launching he's his company's launching a vertical platform.
1054
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,199
And so he's been working on that.
1055
00:57:29,199 --> 00:57:32,679
So the issue like I was thinking about last night when I was working on the script,
1056
00:57:32,679 --> 00:57:36,000
I'm like, good luck to A.I., because A.I.
1057
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,120
doing script notes and again, he gives really good notes.
1058
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,280
But it's like I had written the first ten pages.
1059
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:43,000
Send it off to him.
1060
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,439
And we you know, what I love about Peter, Peter loves an outline.
1061
00:57:46,479 --> 00:57:47,600
Peter loves episodes.
1062
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,760
I mean, like it's very I'm a freestyle writer.
1063
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:52,639
Like I'll just start writing boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
1064
00:57:52,639 --> 00:57:55,639
A weekend later, I have a script done, you know, start editing that way.
1065
00:57:55,959 --> 00:57:59,320
Peter wanted the synopsis that he wanted the outline of a five pager.
1066
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:00,959
And then we had an episode breakdown.
1067
00:58:00,959 --> 00:58:03,879
And so like if this is a paint by number script, like you should be able
1068
00:58:03,879 --> 00:58:05,280
to go in and start writing.
1069
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:06,639
So I started writing the first ten pages.
1070
00:58:06,639 --> 00:58:08,280
Now we're moving episodes around now.
1071
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,000
Now this needs to be here.
1072
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,360
If I think if I were A.I., I'd be ripping my hair out.
1073
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,040
But it's like he's a creative.
1074
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:15,639
So he knows story.
1075
00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:18,600
And so suddenly like seeing it on the page, it's like, oh, let's move this here.
1076
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:19,879
This is moving a little slow.
1077
00:58:19,879 --> 00:58:21,959
And we're just talking like minute long episodes.
1078
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:26,959
So that's the main difference, because with there's that heightened sense
1079
00:58:26,959 --> 00:58:30,719
of, you know, the uptick, the the emotional beat of like,
1080
00:58:30,719 --> 00:58:33,840
why am I going to keep watching past this episode that
1081
00:58:35,679 --> 00:58:38,479
I think would be very challenging?
1082
00:58:38,479 --> 00:58:41,439
I think I think a lot of these really creative directors
1083
00:58:41,439 --> 00:58:44,439
who are really good at scripted, they're not going to be able to deal with A.I.
1084
00:58:44,479 --> 00:58:48,040
They're going to need a human who can take that and and make it for them.
1085
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,800
You know, so essentially a conduit for their storytelling.
1086
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,120
That's been the main difference that I've seen.
1087
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:55,000
It's those episode breaks.
1088
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,560
It's the paywall, the all important paywall.
1089
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:02,439
And I mean, clearly A.I.
1090
00:59:02,439 --> 00:59:06,919
is writing these things because we've all worked on scripts that were absolutely A.I.
1091
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,840
That, you know, the dialogue or it was or just translated
1092
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,959
from an Asian platform that came over and no one bothered.
1093
00:59:14,199 --> 00:59:18,040
I think I think translation, I think a lot of it is translation
1094
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:22,120
from like an Asian story and then translated
1095
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:24,639
with some sort of A.I. translator.
1096
00:59:24,639 --> 00:59:27,879
And then it just it just doesn't always translate properly.
1097
00:59:27,879 --> 00:59:29,000
And it's not finessed.
1098
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:33,199
And so that's that's been the biggest challenge that I've seen with writing,
1099
00:59:33,199 --> 00:59:38,840
because again, like you'll I you know, I'm Mary Lambert, who directed Pet Sematary.
1100
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,280
We have a script that we're that I wrote that she's directing.
1101
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:44,280
Jamie King is producing and starring in it.
1102
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,360
And so, you know, I get script notes from Mary.
1103
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,679
Mary's really good with notes.
1104
00:59:48,679 --> 00:59:53,479
But again, her notes versus her notes are more creative.
1105
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,679
Give me an idea of what a good note would be.
1106
00:59:58,719 --> 01:00:02,760
Yeah, it was such a and it really I mean, that's why as a as a casting director
1107
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,080
and as actor, I always tell actors take directing classes
1108
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:10,199
because then, you know, the cheat codes of like how they should be directing you
1109
01:00:10,639 --> 01:00:12,879
or directors taking acting classes.
1110
01:00:12,879 --> 01:00:15,239
Exactly. So you know how to deal with an actor.
1111
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:19,040
Yeah. So a lot of that is the intense like what is happening in the scene
1112
01:00:19,639 --> 01:00:21,760
and you know, what is it you know, what is happening in the scene?
1113
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:26,199
Speaking of acting classes, prodigy talent training dot com is a great place
1114
01:00:26,199 --> 01:00:28,639
to check out. Hey, what was that again?
1115
01:00:29,159 --> 01:00:31,159
Prodigy talent training dot com.
1116
01:00:31,159 --> 01:00:33,120
That's the acting school that I own.
1117
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,040
That's great. OK, I'll definitely check it out.
1118
01:00:36,159 --> 01:00:39,399
Yeah, yeah. I don't necessarily mean for you, Chad, though.
1119
01:00:39,399 --> 01:00:40,000
You are welcome.
1120
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,239
I don't know. No, I'm always trying to recommend.
1121
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:44,199
I'm always trying to recommend online classes. Yeah.
1122
01:00:44,199 --> 01:00:47,520
Yeah. So like a lot of the notes and verticals, like the scripts
1123
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:52,080
that I've written for verticals, I wrote I did write a vampire comedy.
1124
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,840
The thing that I wrote for that one platform that I shall not speak of.
1125
01:00:55,919 --> 01:00:57,560
It's a sigil on my lips.
1126
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,520
But again, the number one movie, terrible experience.
1127
01:01:00,959 --> 01:01:02,479
Blew my career open as a writer.
1128
01:01:02,479 --> 01:01:04,840
So again, you have to be grateful.
1129
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:09,560
Yeah. Sometimes the worst experience end up being the thing that that supports.
1130
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:11,719
Can you tell us what the title of that movie is?
1131
01:01:11,959 --> 01:01:14,360
No, I can't. OK, fair enough. Fair enough.
1132
01:01:14,679 --> 01:01:17,120
Jonathan, I don't want somebody to think that much.
1133
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,000
Jonathan always wants you to break your NDA.
1134
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:21,919
That's part of he's right. He's right.
1135
01:01:21,919 --> 01:01:24,399
No NDA. It's just I don't want to support that person.
1136
01:01:24,399 --> 01:01:27,840
That's oh, that's hilarious. That's where I'm heading.
1137
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,360
There's no NDA, Jonathan.
1138
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,399
Yeah, Chad, I really think that also, like, you know, because
1139
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:38,000
you've seen some of these scripts that are missing some of those episode beats
1140
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:38,800
and that of that.
1141
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,120
I think a good director that understands this homework assignment
1142
01:01:42,399 --> 01:01:46,800
will create it, you know, with the actors, you know, if it's not.
1143
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,280
Oh, you know, and I say that again.
1144
01:01:49,639 --> 01:01:51,360
Please say that again.
1145
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,399
Well, a good director will create those episode beats.
1146
01:01:54,439 --> 01:01:57,439
A bad director will miss exactly what's on the page.
1147
01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:58,919
You know what I mean?
1148
01:01:58,919 --> 01:02:03,040
So Audrey, it's Madison Hatfield, the really great directors of both actors.
1149
01:02:03,399 --> 01:02:06,520
It's I feel like it's more technical with the vertical world.
1150
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:10,399
It's more creative in just narrative storytelling where you're.
1151
01:02:10,719 --> 01:02:13,080
I think a lot of times we.
1152
01:02:15,159 --> 01:02:17,399
With verticals, it's a lot of.
1153
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,199
Tell not show.
1154
01:02:21,199 --> 01:02:24,919
Yeah, meaning that we have the voiceover of like, oh, my gosh,
1155
01:02:24,919 --> 01:02:26,760
I hope that he falls for me, I just.
1156
01:02:27,919 --> 01:02:30,840
That's why I hate the voiceover, because we're feeding the audience
1157
01:02:31,159 --> 01:02:35,239
what they're supposed to feel, whereas a narrative.
1158
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:38,399
It comes through the actor and the performance.
1159
01:02:38,439 --> 01:02:40,760
So it's it's just very technical.
1160
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,560
We're and then again, like the beats can't drop a little bit
1161
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,320
like emotionally, they have to keep going up and up and up.
1162
01:02:47,679 --> 01:02:50,879
But it's like within the vertical world, it's a lot of tell not show.
1163
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,399
Well, well, and part of that.
1164
01:02:53,399 --> 01:02:57,239
Well, I mean, part of that, too, is because like like think about it.
1165
01:02:57,239 --> 01:03:01,040
The characters are very visually exactly what they are.
1166
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:03,159
Like if you're if you're a nerdy high school guy,
1167
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,360
you're going to have the glasses and the backpack and the books,
1168
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,000
and you're going to be the nerdy high school guy.
1169
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,919
If you're the mean evil villain, you know, you're going to have
1170
01:03:10,919 --> 01:03:15,760
like the scar on the eye and like the the the dress and the black suit
1171
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,719
and like the the gold chain or whatever, you know, it's going to.
1172
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:20,399
It's a very visual thing.
1173
01:03:20,399 --> 01:03:21,879
The whole voiceover thing.
1174
01:03:21,879 --> 01:03:26,520
Like you have to think about the mix of narrative and social media.
1175
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:27,760
You know what I mean?
1176
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:32,879
And like how fast you need to engage the audience.
1177
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,159
Like that's why there's no character set up.
1178
01:03:35,159 --> 01:03:38,840
We jump right in the character character relationship right away.
1179
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:40,479
Like telling everything that it is.
1180
01:03:40,479 --> 01:03:43,239
Chad, where can we follow your work?
1181
01:03:43,239 --> 01:03:46,399
Where can we see what you're doing, what you're up to?
1182
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:52,959
My Instagram is at Chad Darnell and my Chad Darnell dot net is my website.
1183
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:55,199
There it is.
1184
01:03:55,199 --> 01:03:57,639
So thank you for joining us today, Chad.
1185
01:03:57,639 --> 01:04:00,439
This was really insightful, really cool.
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01:04:00,439 --> 01:04:02,800
And we'll see you next time right here on Tech and Talent.