Talking With John Marks About His Ability to Adapt And Succeed In The Changing Music Format Scene

WEBVTT
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Standing by.
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You're just talking with Thompson Square. It's a podcast. Who
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you were sitting up there on your mama's hoop talking
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about everything, you know, the moon, this middle hode, It's
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up you op if you all I could think about
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was my next move over. You was so show so
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is out. Maybe that's why it was so high to
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believe when you smiled and said to me, you gonna
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kiss me on night. Hey, what's up everybody? Hey, this
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is talking with Thompson Square. Brand new episode, brand new year,
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and uh I'm your host, Keifer Thompson. I am playing
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this song because it is very significant in the guest
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that I have today. It's a guest, but it's also
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a good friend. And this guy has been in country
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music seems like forever. He's been a staple and mentor.
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I mean he's helped so many artists along the way.
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He's helped us along the way. But without any further ado,
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I'd like to welcome to the program our friend and
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Wow country music. He's a staple, he's an icon, you know,
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and mister John Mars.
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Is that my brother? Hey, life is good. I can't
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complain and excuse me while I'll make a wardrobe change.
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I love it.
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Make Thompson Square grade again, man, that's awesome.
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I'm willing to do my part.
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Brother.
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I love it for you and Shanna. You just say it.
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I love it, man, I love it.
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Out.
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Yeah, I'm glad you still have him. Glad it's not
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in the bargain been in a good way or something.
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I would never discard that one.
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That's thank you man.
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Well, for everybody who doesn't know, John marx Is has
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been our country music forever and uh, you know, we
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have a lot of history together. We probably go back
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what at least ten years at least.
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You know, I was familiar with her music before you
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got signed to your record label and had heard some
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tracks before that that you had released, and certainly when
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that song came out, that's when we first got connected
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in a true way. And it's I'm honored and pleased
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to say we've been friends ever since, and I'm proudly
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call your friends, both.
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Of them, absolutely so. So John and I and Shauna.
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John started when Shawn and I started in twenty ten.
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We do what it's called a radio tour, So you
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go out and you're promote your single at the time,
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kiss Me or not. We had just begun. Actually it
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was a song called That's Fight. It didn't really last
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that long. Uh, we switched to are You Gonnakiss Mirocs.
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Everybody thought that that was the better song. Turns out
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they were right. Uh, but we go back forever man.
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And and uh, you know it was San Diego, San Diego,
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that's San Diego. And you were our first stop along
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the first radio tour that we ever did.
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That's right.
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We were at somebody's house. I can't remember whose it was,
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and uh we were we were just having some fun,
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drinking some wine with some of some of your music.
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It was it was really I still remember that night.
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It was.
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Yeah, it was so cool man, because we were we
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were so nervous, and we know, we didn't know what
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to expect. This is our first radio tour. The didn't
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even know what a radio tour existed. And uh so
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here we are, you know, trying to to put on
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our best, you know, foot forward and and look good
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and sound good and everything else. And uh and man,
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you know that song took off and and uh you know,
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as as we elevated our career throughout that whole time,
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you did the same thing man, and and uh, but
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I don't think that I ever knew kind of how
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you because you've been You've been a huge part of
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FM radio, You've been a huge part of XM radio,
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You've been a huge part of Spotify, and then now
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you're doing this new thing and we want to talk
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about that later. But man, how did you how did
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you get into the radio in the first place?
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You know, music was always Yeah, I don't come from
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a musical family. I don't, you know, it's like it's
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we didn't sing on the porch on Sundays. You know.
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It was just one of those things where music really
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caught my attention early in life. And I've always loved
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it from the minute that I can remember. And you
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know it, I tried to manifest it in a lot
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of different areas, trying to play an instrument or sing
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a song, join a local band, and I just knew
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early on that that was not.
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Going to be my future.
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Just the talent, You're not that guy.
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I did not have the work ethic, I did not know,
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so I just knew that was not it, you know,
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And you know, as I you know, listened to the
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little transistor radio for those of you know, the audience
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that don't remember that thing under the old pillow. That
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was my kind of introduction to hey, maybe I can
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do this, And so I more or less pursued and
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dedicated myself to going into music through radio, and I
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actually have been employed at it since I was sixteen
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years old. I found a job at my local radio
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station in my hometown at sixteen and have been blessed
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to be able to do some form of music my
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entire life since then, and it's it's a great blessing.
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And my final radio job was KASWIN in San Diego,
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where we met, and I left in twenty ten to
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be able to go to Sirius XM and work at
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satellite radio and headed up their country division twenty ten
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to twenty fifteen, and then to Spotify in twenty fifteen
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until April of this year. So it's been a fun traverse.
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I've gotten to learn all about the different geographies of
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the United States and the music differences, you know. Sirius
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XM helped me understand, you know, programming music to America
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and Canada as a whole, and Spotify helped me understand
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the global implications of music. And it's just been a
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fun traverse over over the years, and every day I
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continue to learn.
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Wow.
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So when you were listening to that transistor radio, like, so,
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what are some of the things that you like that
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you really got the music that you really got off on,
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like when you started out, you.
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Know, the.
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First song that infected my brain.
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You know.
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It's like I've always was was at music. I know
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it exactly. I can see it exactly how it happened yesterday.
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I don't know how old I was. I was in
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the gymnasium at the y m c A uh, and
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on the jukebox this thump and drum came up, and
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then the guitar and it was Roy Orbison, Pretty Woman.
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And after that I said, man, you know, I've got
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to do it. I got to do some form of
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music and and uh and it's just ever since. I mean,
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you know, I grew up with it in Middletown, Ohio,
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which is a you know, smallish town right in between
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Cincinnati and Dayton and perch between Cleveland, Detroit, Memphis, Nashville. Uh.
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And there were so many musical influences north and south,
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up and down the highway that was able to experience
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Motown and stacks and you know the music coming out
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of Detroit.
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Froyd and Cleveland and even Cincinnati I had its share
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of artists coming through and breaking through those areas, and
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so yeah, it was you know, it was just a
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lot of musical influences that really captured my attention during
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that time. And I just loved all of it, you know,
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I would. I was working part time at gas station,
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so I just blow my entire paycheck on records, singles,
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forty fives and albums, and it was just an infection
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that I have yet to get rid of, you know,
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and I love every second of it.
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No, I tell you, you talk about spending your whole
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paycheck on music, and I just I sound old, man,
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I sound old when I say this, but I'm grateful
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to grow up at the very tail end of that.
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I remember going to a place called Stick It in
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your Ear and Drop on Missouri and it was albums
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and cassettes and CDs had just come on the scene,
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and uh, man, I would go in there and literally
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spend every penny I had, and I would buy albums
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based upon artwork. I would buy albums. You know, people
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will talk about it. They'd be playing records in the
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shop and I'd be like, what is this? And you
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get to talking to tifferent people and you had ten
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to fifteen people and go, hey, man, have you heard
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this thing from led Zeppelin? Mayb you heard this thing
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from Haggard or whatever?
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You know.
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It's it was such a community just in the record shop,
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and it's such a It's really I know that people
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now coming up, you know, especially kids now coming up,
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it's like they just will never be able to experience
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it because that part of that part of our business
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is never coming back. I mean, There's gonna be a
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few little things here and there for the most part. Man,
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it's just dead and it's so freaking sad, it really is.
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I mean, the the album artwork was the chief not
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a chief element, but a primary element of many of
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the things that I bought and still probably have on
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vinyl today out and some storage in it somewhere, and
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I had a lot of them framed and they're back
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in another state that I'm hoping to retrieve.
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One of these days.
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And it was I mean, I would, I would hang
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them on my wall and because they were so cool
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and the music sometimes the music matched the artwork. Sometimes
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it didn't, but that's okay. But that is a lost
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form and the liner notes that just aren't as readily
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available to come back as it is now. I mean
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on the streaming platform. To see this little image like that,
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what the hell will they look like? I can't tell
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it well. And it's like, you know, I remember, I'm
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a metalhead. I love blues gospel jat I listened to
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Frank Sinatra just about every day at some point in
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my day, usually drive into school just to make Cooper mad.
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But it's you. I remember those Iron Maiden album artwork
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and it always scared me. But I was like, I
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put their posters up and stuff in my room and
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I didn't lie. I didn't. I wasn't really an Iron
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Maiden guy, but I loved their artwork because it was
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so freaky and it was dark, and I was like,
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oh my mom and dad will hate this. I want
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to put this up in my room, you know. But
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it's it's weird, you know. What I hate now on
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the artwork is like every like our label included all
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the artwork now is like this really clean just picture pictures,
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you know, just front end shot of you. Now you
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gotta smile, you gotta smile. And I'm like, man, you know,
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there's a few artists that do some really cool Zach
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Brown does some really cool stuff with his artwork, you know,
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it's not just about his face, and and there's some
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other artists too that really get out there, you know,
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and I wish that we could get back to that.
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And I just have a I mean, then you guys
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know what we look like. I mean, I know branding
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is part of it, but it's just like, I'm like,
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come on, man, let's let's get cool with it. You know.
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But so you started out, when you started out with
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your in radio at sixteen what at what point did
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you start becoming a DJ at sixteen?
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I mean sixteen formerly on the air well at the
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small town radio station.
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Uh, it was a little bit of everything.
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I mean, you know, they would block program music and preachers,
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you know, so so depending on the preachers and the
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time of day and the day of the week, you know,
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it would be we'd call it the God squad where
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the preachers had come on and you'd play some gospel
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music and then at night you play some Top forty
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music and you know, bluegrass music. And and I even,
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you know, dabbled in because the radio station did some
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black gospel music back in the day. And and I
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loved it because it was it was, and you don't
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have anything like it today. The streaming services have a
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wide and deep variety of music, but radio stations were
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programmed very narrowly today. And I loved it because each
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piece of the day was dedicated to some form of music.
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And I was able to be exposed to it on
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the radio, all of this Southern gospel and you know,
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all of it, and and it's kind of carried me
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through my life, you know, because you know, I didn't
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just have this one element of taste. I mean, rock
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was always the hip, you know thing in my age category,
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you know, but I loved country back in the day,
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you know, even though a lot of my friends hated it,
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and bluegrass was unspoken of in my age category. But
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I just loved all of that music and came to
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love it by being forced to play it, you know.
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And and the nice thing of it was was back
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in the day, that time of day and the year
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and era, whatever you want to call it, you could
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play whatever you wanted. And there was even a lot
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of times, especially in the Top forty times, when I
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h be on the air at night, I just bring
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them in my own box of records and play.
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The man, those are the days, right, those were the days. Yea.
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I can tell you, you know, it's it's it's so weird.
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But even with like I noticed, like you know, if
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you even looking back in the eighties and listen to like,
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you know, countdowns or whatever, like the Top forty countdown
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from from seventy eight or or eighty five or whatever else,
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you would have like led Zeppelin, then you would have
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the Thompson Twins or you would I mean, it was
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all it was such a variety of music, and you
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had DJs? Did you have it? I just wanted to
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did you have a DJ name?
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Actually, well, my DJ name is John Marx.
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If you want to know the truth, I'll tell I'll
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tell you a secret that that is not my legal name.
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I've been on many people.
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Our whole relationship has been based upon a lie.
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Yeah, it's like, uh, and it's my my legal name,
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I will say, is Mark Sebastian. That is. But I
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will tell you there are about five people left in
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the world beyond my bill collectors, that know me as
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Mark Sebastians.
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This podcast.
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Mark it is.
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It's like the and and a lot of people are
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surprised to know that you know and Uh. And I
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had to take the name uh a name because when
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I got hired into Cincinnati, Ohio at w s A, I,
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uh there was a at the time, a controversial DJ
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by the name of Mark Sebastian.
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Uh is are these beeps bothering you? Yeah?
297
00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:41.320
I was trying to figure out that it was me
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or you.
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No, it's me. Uh let me.
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And I've been trying to ignore. But just every once
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in a while, these darn strings get crazy and it
302
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comes through on my computer too. I don't know how
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to stop that one.
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00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:00.279
Uh So it's all good man, thank thank you.
305
00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:04.639
Sorry, that makes it real. So there's there was this.
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Cutting edge DJ. I guess the best of it wasn't
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anywhere in the neighborhood of Howard Stern or any of
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the things that we know of today. His on air
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name was Mark Sebastian. And and I was coming in
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with my name, Mark Sebastian, my legal name, and union
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rules at the time said you could not take a
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name that was taken in the market, so I had
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to choose one.
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You're popular, man, this is this is your deal. You
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do that popular, You're freaking computer blowing up.
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00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:43.919
But so I had to take a different name. Uh
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And I had no idea what it was. And there
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00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:49.559
was a columnist who was in and I was just
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a lowly weekend announcer, you know. I wasn't anybody big
320
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or important, but just the name contrast was something that
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somebody found it was worth a column. And uh so
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00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:05.279
what's your name, you know? I said, I don't know. Yeah,
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I've had my ear name. I said, I don't know. Well,
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00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:09.839
what's your dad's name? And I said John what's your
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first name?
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Mark? So why not John? Mark?
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And I said, that's two first names. You know, I
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had no thanks and uh, and I just turned it,
329
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:18.680
took it to John Marx. And that is the story
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of how I got my name. And it's been with
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me ever since after college.
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And does anyone call you in your family Mark Sebastian?
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Uh, my sister and my nuclear family do uh. And
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00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.079
relatives when I see him uh. And and the bill
335
00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:39.160
payers that send the envelopes still or email me uh.
336
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But the world at large, to the world at large,
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I'm John and Uh and I'm I won't say reconciled,
338
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but that's just what I'm used to. It's kind of
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odd to hear my legal name out loud from time
340
00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:51.480
to time. You know, it's Uh, you love me?
341
00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:53.039
Why is miss Colley is?
342
00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:53.359
Is?
343
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Is she a Sebastian or Marx?
344
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:59.119
Uh? She is a Mark, She's a John person. So okay,
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she calls me John. She's known me all her life
346
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.640
as John and uh. And so that's her last name
347
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is Sebastian.
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00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:09.960
My my legal last name is Sebastian.
349
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:11.680
But your wife's name is Sebastian.
350
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:16.079
No, No, she kept her name She's okay. Her name
351
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Colleen Leela's son.
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00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:20.599
She didn't want either. Yeah, yeah, you're lucky. She even
353
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:26.920
took you, man, lucky about that one took me. One
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00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:29.079
thing I loved about Radio Man when w r k
355
00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:32.000
r P R w k r P came out. You
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00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:34.880
had this great personality and Johnny Fever and all these guys.
357
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And when I hear about when I hear the word
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00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.400
radio DJ, I always go to Wolfman Jack, you know,
359
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and and these personalities that we used to have. He
360
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:48.440
was a little bit before my time, but I remember
361
00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:51.440
hearing about him and hearing some of the stuff, you know,
362
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repeats and stuff. The days of those DJs are just
363
00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.680
are kind of gone as well. Why do you think
364
00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:05.039
that is? Because it seemed like in that time period,
365
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:09.640
DJ's had the power to play a whatever the heck
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00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:13.079
they wanted and be to actually break artists, and they
367
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.559
were they were personalities. I mean, you would, I mean
368
00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:17.880
they would go out in public and they were walking
369
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red carpets and they were personalities. Then we have personalities now,
370
00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:24.640
but it seems like it's a little bit muted by
371
00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:28.079
the corporate blanket, you know, it is, the freedom's not there.
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00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:29.960
What do you why do you think when did their
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DJ die?
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00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.960
You know, it's uh, you know it started dying when
375
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it when it became more corporatized and formulaized. I think
376
00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:44.759
you have a Wolfman Jack and uh, it's like cousin
377
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:49.039
Brucey And I'm just trying to think back, you know,
378
00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:51.000
I just don't have any at the top of my
379
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:54.319
mind others. But I mean that's what formulated my interest
380
00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:58.279
in radio. And on the local DJSUH in my hometown
381
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:02.880
Cincinnati and Dayton that Uh, Steve Kirk and Jim Scott
382
00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:06.680
and Dicky Shannon and there were so many that that
383
00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:11.000
influenced me, Bud Stag and uh. And they influenced me
384
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.799
because they were so spontaneous and would throw people on
385
00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:16.119
the air and play whatever they wanted.
386
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:16.839
Uh.
387
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:20.640
And and the the large ones too, like Wolfman Jack
388
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.920
and others who were who really influenced me beyond the
389
00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:26.319
music to I wanted to be on the air, That's
390
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:28.880
what I wanted to do and uh, and that that
391
00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:30.480
kind of made me want to be able to do
392
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.880
that and uh, and you know about you know, I'd
393
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.559
say it's it started going away, you know, back in
394
00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:40.160
the in the in the early nineties, late eighties, I
395
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:42.920
think is when it really kind of cascaded and crashed
396
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:46.119
in because you know, that's when the clear channels of
397
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:50.240
the world started buying up the multiple properties and toning
398
00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:54.519
down the DJs and and corporately choosing the music and
399
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:56.759
and all of that kind of came to a bit
400
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.359
of a whole time. I just extrapolate, just thinking back
401
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:04.160
around that time, why did they do that? Well, I
402
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:06.759
think for ratings and revenue, I mean, why why do
403
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:10.279
they why do they do anything? You know, it's simply
404
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:10.559
for that.
405
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:14.599
I don't know if you get hear between the lines
406
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:16.920
or see between the lines. But John's are a big fan,
407
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:20.880
uh and of corporate radio, I think right now, I mean,
408
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:22.839
I know, let me retract that.
409
00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:28.200
Hey, it's it's I will say, I'm I I really
410
00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:31.640
don't consume the product. I will say that, huh. And
411
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:36.079
why because it's dull, boring and predictable, and and the
412
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:39.759
ratings methodology for radio has really you know, in addition
413
00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:45.599
to corporate uh interest, the ratings methodology has forced radio
414
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.960
stations because to to go to cat more catalog and
415
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.799
familiar music because it punishes new music.
416
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.799
And so between those two you're kind of forced into.
417
00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:59.200
This box that's boring and and you know, bland uh
418
00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:03.319
and and no wonder people are vacating and going to
419
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:07.680
other areas of interest for music and other things. And
420
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.640
it's kind of like, yeah, it's just a cause and
421
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.119
effect as far as I'm concerned. It's not if I'm a.
422
00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:16.400
Fan or not, right, it just it's just weird. Man.
423
00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:21.400
It happens in all in so many industries where you
424
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.359
have this wonderful thing that's working, yes, and then this
425
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.759
big corporation comes in, and I would assume that they
426
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:30.599
it's like a marriage. I mean, you look at this,
427
00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:33.359
it's like dating. I guess you look at this beautiful
428
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.559
woman and go, hey, man, she's beautiful. I want to
429
00:22:35.559 --> 00:22:36.920
go over there and talk to her. See if I
430
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:40.799
hook up, and and uh, you know, start dating or
431
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:42.799
marry or whatever else. And then you get into the
432
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.319
relationship and then you try to change the whole thing.
433
00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.319
But what initially brought you to the table was these
434
00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:53.200
great DJs playing music and these people. It seems like
435
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:57.200
these corporate people, these corporate heads or whatever else they
436
00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:59.759
were around when that stuff was going on. They have
437
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:02.519
to have liked it. They loved it. You know, they
438
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:04.480
listened to it. That was that, that was their outlet,
439
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:06.559
you know, and it's like to take that and then
440
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:13.519
just completely destroy it. It just seems counterproductive. And I
441
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:16.640
don't know, man, I just I'm not a purest when
442
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:19.960
it comes to like a lot of things. But and
443
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:23.160
obviously I love it when someone's playing my song twenty
444
00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.559
times a day, I love that. But when they're not,
445
00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:28.480
you don't like that, you know, because you want new
446
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:30.559
music and everything else. And the Spotify is of the
447
00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:33.400
world and Pandora and everything, and they've you know, they've
448
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:38.519
expanded that. But I could even see how the spotifys
449
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:41.680
and stuff of the world are now. It's playlisted. So
450
00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:44.720
you can't just turn on a playlist like you did
451
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.440
it back in the day in the seventies and listen
452
00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:48.880
to you know, they play a Haggard song and a
453
00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:52.799
Robert Plant song or it just it doesn't happen, you know.
454
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.480
Oh, I mean that, And that's that's how I grew
455
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:58.359
up too. I mean, you had Tammy when that and
456
00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:04.039
Frank Sinatra, the Roger Miller, I mean, all in one
457
00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:06.759
on one radio station, in one list. And that's how
458
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.480
I grew up listening to radio, you know, and and
459
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:13.119
to me, Tammy whenet was just as pop is the Beatles,
460
00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:15.440
you know, in that moment, because they were all on
461
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.359
the same radio station, the same thing, presented the same way.
462
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:23.880
And now it's just all gotten, you know, smashed together
463
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.599
and sliced and diced to death. That you know, it's
464
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:34.039
so narrow and so really nondescript. I think people just say, okay,
465
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:36.440
I can you know, I can listen for fifteen minutes
466
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:39.480
and got it, you know, broadload commercials and a song
467
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.440
or two and you kind of look at as you know,
468
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.599
the music we play is the thing we do between commercials.
469
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:49.000
Now it's not a feature orientation of a lot of
470
00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:51.480
audio products, unfortunately.
471
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.920
Yeah, it's like the vessel just to sell soap. Yeah,
472
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.119
in between what you're doing, you know. And it's it's
473
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:01.759
a little sad, but no, you know you can't. I
474
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:05.319
have to embrace it because that's the reality that I
475
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:08.400
live in, you know. So you're in Sandy.
476
00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:10.599
It's free too, So I you know, I kind of
477
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.559
love it and you know, mourn it at the same time.
478
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:16.279
Uh and uh, And you know, I think that it
479
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:20.279
just came down to money too, because when when corporate
480
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:23.799
interests were buying up radio properties. Over time, it just
481
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:27.400
became a dollars and cents move too on on big
482
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:31.160
name personalities and local markets and how much you had
483
00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:34.319
to pay them to retain their services. Uh. And it
484
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:36.920
just got to a point where we'll just move that
485
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.440
expense item out the door. Uh. And that was kind
486
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.400
of what began it, I think. I mean, somebody from
487
00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:47.440
the industry could probably dispute it or argue with it
488
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:50.160
or not, but I think that's because I saw it
489
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:52.759
happening in a lot of places I was during that time.
490
00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:55.960
Yeah, it's just like, you know, they look at someone like, say,
491
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:59.519
the same wolfman's making a million bucks a year. Hey,
492
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:02.720
these people are to listen to radio anyway. They weren't music.
493
00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:04.240
They're going to listen to radio anyway. So we can
494
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:06.519
take that million bucks and we can hire someone for
495
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:09.640
thirty grand exactly, and we can tell then you know,
496
00:26:09.799 --> 00:26:12.440
it's just the bottom line. It's just corporate bottom line.
497
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:14.680
It's a it's I guess it's the way of the world.
498
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:17.000
But it is kind of sad.
499
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:21.039
It is sad, and but it's it is that reality. Uh,
500
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:25.200
you know, driving profit, you know, is is what makes
501
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:27.759
America great, I guess. But yeah, it's it's it's sad
502
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:30.079
to have lost it. We can agree on that. It's
503
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.799
because that's what you know, and you have an entire
504
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.119
generation of people now, you know, who don't even know
505
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.319
what FM radio is. You know, they have never heard
506
00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:43.599
of it or will never consume it no matter what, right,
507
00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:48.240
And it's a loss for all people, the certainly the
508
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.440
corporate interests at radio and for the artists because that
509
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:54.160
audience is shrinking. And so you know, it's it's a
510
00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:56.480
it's not good for anyone, but that's just kind of the.
511
00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:57.960
Reality of it.
512
00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:01.000
And and that's why the other services are starting to
513
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.160
see some really exponential growth right now.
514
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:08.599
So San Diego was your last radio gig, So why
515
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:09.960
did you Why did you actually leave?
516
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:14.279
Because of one of mine?
517
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:18.519
They cover bottom line is pretty badass when they give
518
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:23.720
it to you. You know what, I love this traditional radio,
519
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.720
but I know sounds.
520
00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:27.839
Pretty good, you know. I kind of look at it
521
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:30.839
like I was operating one step ahead of the law,
522
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:33.279
you know, for such a long time. And I was
523
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.759
very lucky, uh to uh to be able to uh
524
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:42.519
work in personality driven radio. I was able to work
525
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:47.559
in in uh, in markets and radio station conditions where
526
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:50.559
I could make my own programming choices and music and
527
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.319
who to hire and who to put where. Uh. And
528
00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:57.759
and I just saw that end coming. It was like
529
00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:00.160
the light at the end of the tunnel, you know,
530
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:05.480
is the freight train. And so my contract ended uh
531
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:10.319
in San Diego. And we had just resolved that we
532
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:12.759
were that was going to be it me and my
533
00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:16.039
wife Colleen, you know, that we're done with radio.
534
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:18.799
I was just done with it. It was boring, predictable,
535
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:21.200
and and was not going to get better.
536
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:21.599
Uh.
537
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:23.039
And that was just me.
538
00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:25.920
So it's just a personal opinion, my own, you know,
539
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.200
looking at conditions and where things were and going uh
540
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.480
and deciding, well, you know, I've had fun. It was
541
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:34.039
a good run.
542
00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:35.200
And uh.
543
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:39.160
That was nice and UH and a chance meeting uh
544
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:43.519
at a country radio seminar, which is a convention in Nashville,
545
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:49.359
Tennessee for for radio country radio industry people. I met
546
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:54.200
an on air personality on Serious XM UH and we
547
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:56.839
were chatting it up and she told me about a
548
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:00.680
job opportunity there. UH, And I said, eight, you know,
549
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:04.599
that's nice, and it's like and the thing of it was,
550
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:08.680
it's like the the the programming opportunities at FM radio
551
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:12.240
was so limited and small, and you couldn't play a
552
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:15.359
wider variety of music like I like to play. And
553
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:19.039
and it turns out that the job included not only
554
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.039
just the top forty country music, but you know, a
555
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:26.119
wide variety of country music, from southern gospel to to
556
00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:29.359
Elvis to bluegrass, to all the things that I'd grown
557
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:29.680
up with.
558
00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:31.680
And that was very enticing to me.
559
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:35.759
And and and so I made the proper queries, and
560
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:39.759
throughout the process I was able to be lucky enough
561
00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:42.359
to be hired into that position.
562
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:44.839
And I was there for five years. And I think
563
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:49.519
that what I think what helped me through that was.
564
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:54.960
Was my experience, however fleeting it was with all of
565
00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.079
those other music forms that came under that umbrella, in
566
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:00.759
the serious ex some family.
567
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:01.519
Wow.
568
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.480
So you run a huge radio station in San Diego,
569
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:06.960
and then it's gotta man, You've got to have like
570
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:12.160
some serious nuts to just leave what you know, you know.
571
00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:14.359
I think for a lot of people, a lot of
572
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:17.000
people stay in job forever, man, because they just they
573
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:20.079
know that it's like know the devil, you know, stay
574
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:22.400
with the dell, you know, and and to be able
575
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:25.039
to do that. Man, it's it's commendable because I know
576
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:27.359
it's very difficult. It's just like us asking out of
577
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:27.960
a record deal.
578
00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:28.160
You know.
579
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:30.759
That's we spent our whole life trying to get one,
580
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.039
and then we were trying like hell to get out
581
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:35.079
of one, you know. And so it's a it's a
582
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:36.920
but it is, man, if you if it's one of
583
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:39.599
those things where if it's not fun anymore, you have
584
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:41.359
to look at it and go, man, I just you know,
585
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:43.880
there's got to be something else out there. Luckily for you,
586
00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:48.960
you slid right into this other thing in XM. And uh,
587
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.559
that's amazing. Then that so now you're running you know,
588
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.119
there's there's there was three four big dogs, you know,
589
00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:59.039
and now you're running this huge thing in XM and
590
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:01.920
do this for five years years? How did how did
591
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:02.680
that change?
592
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:03.119
Uh?
593
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:05.559
How did how did you take that from where you
594
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:06.839
got it to where it ended up?
595
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:08.319
You know?
596
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:13.200
The uh and local radio you know, and I loved
597
00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:16.440
it because you you you found the local market taste
598
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:19.160
and you programmed to that, you know, as as best
599
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.799
as you could, uh and uh and appeal to the
600
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:28.240
local marketplace with you know, lifestyle and uh uh and
601
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.839
back in San Diego it was like back during the Wars,
602
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:34.799
it was heavily military oriented. So we do a lot
603
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:39.119
of UH coverage on on that and and touching base
604
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:44.160
with the community and and going to serious exem you know.
605
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.240
That was a great lesson UH and taught me so
606
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.720
much in instead of being you know, this small and
607
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:56.440
appealing to a micro market, you know, which was great,
608
00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:00.559
UH is is now you're you're working to appeal to
609
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:04.799
all of the United States and Canada too, because you know,
610
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:10.000
the satellite broadcasting was was country wide and also Canada wide,
611
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:14.400
and you know, the programming UH schemes needed to be
612
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:19.119
UH taking taken a little bit differently, a lot differently.
613
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:22.279
Uh and and so that was really part of the
614
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:26.799
fun of learning that piece of the puzzle is how
615
00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:32.400
to program to a larger population base UH together as
616
00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:34.319
opposed to a local market community.
617
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:38.839
Yeah. And that's one thing I really loved about listening
618
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:41.599
to XM because if we're driving across country or whatever else, man,
619
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.079
if I started a song, I hated that when we
620
00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:46.279
were driving. When I drive back to Oklahoma and I
621
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:47.920
have a jam or and I get it, you know,
622
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:49.680
a little bit outside the radius and then I have
623
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:52.119
to go to you know, I don't know whatever. In
624
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:54.200
some areas it's like all you can get is gospel
625
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:56.960
or or you know, some places in the South, like
626
00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:00.319
every station is like preaching, or you know, that's still
627
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:02.559
a huge thing in the South, you know, which is
628
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:06.240
really cool that's still going on. So you're an exam
629
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:10.680
And what I want to do is is obviously educate
630
00:33:10.759 --> 00:33:13.759
this audience on on who you are, but like especially
631
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:18.000
like artists, you know, and hopefully they'll learn something today
632
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:19.839
because I want to get into some some other things
633
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:25.640
specifically about the music business, uh, for legacy acts acts
634
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:28.279
like ourselves, uh, and then for new artists as well.
635
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:32.359
But before we jump to that, I see, you know,
636
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:37.039
Spotify starts and the whole music industry is just like
637
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:41.839
this is this is the knife that's going to kill everything. Uh.
638
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:43.920
And you know if it started, you know, the knife
639
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:46.039
started with m P three's you know, the German engineer
640
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:49.799
they developed at MP three. You know, some say they
641
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:52.400
killed the music business. That's a valid point.
642
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:52.759
Uh.
643
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.880
Some say killed the retail business and music. It's a
644
00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:00.200
pretty valid point. But it also created something that it's
645
00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:04.599
a whole lot bigger than it ever dreamed about being.
646
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:07.599
And what's funny to me now it's like, you know,
647
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:10.639
even not from then. You know, now it's like it's
648
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:14.199
not it's all everything's on your phone and everything. It's
649
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:17.000
even less, you know, but we're still using that format
650
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:20.400
to consume and play and music. And it's it's always
651
00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:22.480
it was always silly to me to we go into
652
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:25.679
a ten million dollar studio, we spend one hundred thousand
653
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:28.320
dollars on a record, and then we squash it down.
654
00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:30.639
I have all these brilliant things that we all these
655
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:33.199
great ideas we had, and we squash it down so
656
00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:35.480
tight into this NB three you can't hear half of
657
00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:39.480
what the nuances of what you created. But that's just
658
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:42.920
kind of way it is. But how do you make
659
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:47.239
the jump from XM and go, hey, here's an even
660
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:50.239
bigger fish And then here you go from a a
661
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.960
big deal in San Diego, now you're a big deal
662
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:58.519
at XM. It's like you're the most interesting man in
663
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:01.159
the world, and you should be drinking so you should
664
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:04.079
be on those commercials. And now you're now you're the guy.
665
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.559
You're the guy at Spotify. I mean, how the hell
666
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:09.960
does one person do that well?
667
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:14.039
You know it's it's and and I will say this
668
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:17.719
is coming into Sirius XM. Back in that day, they
669
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:21.119
had just gone through a very painful merger. Uh, and
670
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:25.239
their stock was below a dollar and they weren't in
671
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:27.440
great shape financially or otherwise.
672
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:31.280
Uh and uh and it's it's easy to forget that
673
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:32.039
piece of it.
674
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:35.320
Uh. And when I came in, you know, it's like
675
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:39.719
and that opportunity came just by chance, by a chance meeting.
676
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:43.599
And we were packing our boxes literally to head back
677
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:47.000
to Utah to uh uh to go to my wife's
678
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:50.960
hometown and hang for a little while. And uh, that
679
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:53.760
job opportunity came on us, and I said, well, what
680
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:55.239
the hell, what do we got to lose? You know,
681
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:58.760
we got you know, we're we're headed to Utah. You know,
682
00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:01.199
we don't have a paycheck, not that we were too
683
00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:03.239
worried about it at the time. And let's just go
684
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:06.679
and see what this has to offer, you know, or
685
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:11.280
what I remember that and if it if it works out, great,
686
00:36:11.559 --> 00:36:15.239
if in six months or a year, you know, we're out.
687
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:17.239
We knew where we were going in the first place,
688
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:19.159
so it's no big deal either way. It's win win
689
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.079
and so that's kind of where it was back in
690
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.480
that moment. And uh, and I will say the you know,
691
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:28.760
the whoever the financial people were at the time, were
692
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.079
able to turn that around in a in a really
693
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:35.079
great way with Howard Stern and product improvements. I mean,
694
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:39.159
and back then, you know, the the the channels were
695
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:42.960
really poorly programmed. You know, the music was terrible. Uh.
696
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.199
And and I think the you know, product improvements that
697
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:48.400
were made over time really helped to bolster it. In
698
00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:52.320
addition to you know, program enhancements with sports editions and
699
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.360
Howard Stern and all those other things. And that really
700
00:36:55.719 --> 00:36:58.920
brought more listeners and more profile to that to those
701
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:04.119
platforms over time and increased the opportunities to give you know,
702
00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:08.760
great exposure to artists. Uh. And when when I went
703
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:10.719
to Spotify, it was more or less the same thing,
704
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:13.920
you know, they were. It wasn't what it is today. Uh.
705
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:18.119
It was actually the record companies really were not fans.
706
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:21.960
I think it's a kind way of people of the uh.
707
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:27.000
And uh certainly, yeah, the songwriters had something to say
708
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:27.360
about it.
709
00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:30.679
Uh And uh still due to some respects.
710
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:35.400
But I think that back even then, uh, it was
711
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:39.519
it was really tough to uh to gain some ground
712
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:42.519
because the record companies didn't like it because they weren't
713
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:45.079
making any money from it, and they were pissed because
714
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:47.079
all the revenue was draining.
715
00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:47.599
Away from them.
716
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:51.280
Uh. And and so there was just this, you know,
717
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.639
a couple of year, two or three year period, a
718
00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:57.480
couple of years where you know, they were uh sucking
719
00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:02.440
air profit wise, losing money. Spotify was gaining audience, and
720
00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:04.559
they were saying, well, they're we're not getting paid by
721
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:08.079
you guys worth anything. And then you give it a
722
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:11.320
couple of years and their subscriber growth goes and now
723
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:15.559
the record companies are on them like a cheap suit. Uh.
724
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:19.360
And so it's uh now that and now, were it
725
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:22.199
not for streaming, you know, Spotify in particular, but all
726
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:25.599
the streaming services, the record companies would be in the dumpsters.
727
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:29.639
Uh and uh and now they're they're there, lions choice
728
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.840
and lions share of the revenue UH is going to
729
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:35.760
the record labels. Uh with streaming, and you know there's
730
00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:39.840
a lot to be discussed about that and and other matters. Yeah,
731
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:41.719
how many hours do we have?
732
00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:44.079
Yeah, I don't want to keep you on all week.
733
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:47.519
And and so and and now all of a sudden,
734
00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:49.960
you know, over the course of one year. This is
735
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:50.480
no kidding.
736
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:53.000
I had a record executive call me and say, you know,
737
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:56.480
I used to hate used to hate Spotify. And it
738
00:38:56.599 --> 00:38:57.719
was at the end of the year and we were
739
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:01.840
just sitting down shooting the ship. Uh and and he said,
740
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:06.519
but here's what happened. You know, we were seventy eight
741
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:10.119
percent off of our revenue for the year. We got
742
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:13.400
our Spotify check and it made us profitable. And that
743
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:16.679
was a turning point right there. And all of a sudden,
744
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:20.119
the record labels fell in love a streaming and that's
745
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:22.719
kind of where that went. And in addition to that,
746
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:26.880
the subscribers grew and and and you know, we were
747
00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:31.239
put in charge of bolstering the genres. You know, part
748
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:33.559
of my job is to bolster the genre in Nashville
749
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:36.760
and represent the genre in Nashville, which we did not
750
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.800
an easy job at the at the time because of
751
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:43.320
what we've described. But also as time went on, and
752
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:47.400
you know, subscriber rates grew, revenue grew for the labels,
753
00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:51.440
everything was got a little bit more peaceful as time
754
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:51.719
went on.
755
00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:55.800
Yeah, it's interesting too, because once sewn I got out
756
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:59.199
of our record deal and started our own label and
757
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:02.519
released the master Piece record. You know, I don't think
758
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:05.840
we ever saw a penny from streaming as an artist
759
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:09.519
or really even a songwriter. And I mean that's obviously
760
00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:11.280
a whole I mean, I need to have you back
761
00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:14.679
on that course, man, I tell you what, because it
762
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:17.719
really is. I mean, the artists seriously gets screwed. The
763
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:18.920
songwriter is not.
764
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:22.559
Even existent, right, And that is absolutely right.
765
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:26.880
And I never understood, well, I understand that because I
766
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:30.639
know what artists are artists or idiots. Songwriters are really idiots.
767
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:34.880
We're all stupid because we do all this creation and
768
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:37.719
we just give it away. We say, we give it away.
769
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:40.360
We'll get a publishing deal, you know, and you can
770
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:42.519
make twenty thirty thousand dollars a year if you're lucky
771
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:45.840
as a big songwriter doing that, and you give away
772
00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:48.280
all your publishing. And then so then Sony or whoever
773
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:50.800
one of the big ones, or any label really cut
774
00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:53.960
the master on it. Well, they own a master recording rights,
775
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.440
and then they put it on streaming, and then you
776
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:58.719
get a million streams, you make five thousand bucks. Well,
777
00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:00.679
the five thousand bucks goes to the label, and then
778
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:03.599
guess what, you get. I mean, it's it's insane to me.
779
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:05.480
It's like it's it's like if you're a painter and
780
00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:07.840
you just you paint all these great paintings and then
781
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:09.000
you just give them away.
782
00:41:09.079 --> 00:41:09.360
Just for.
783
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:15.159
Exposure and we hear, kid, we I hear people do
784
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:17.559
that now. Like, man, it's really great. You know I
785
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:19.119
got you know, I got on this Spotify. You know,
786
00:41:19.159 --> 00:41:21.159
I got on the Spotify playlist. You know, thank you
787
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:23.559
for you know, the ten thousand streams whatever. This is
788
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:28.239
monumental for me. I'm going, what yeah, you know, I'm like,
789
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:31.480
do you own the do you own the music? I
790
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:34.519
had a there was a couple of uh uh Warren,
791
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:37.760
the Warren brothers were they're really good friends of mine
792
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:41.760
and everyone loved they're the greatest guys. But they wrote
793
00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:45.039
a song with this guy who was independent and he
794
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:46.639
put it out. They did a demo for a few
795
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:50.000
hundred bucks, put it out on Spotify. It blows up
796
00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:51.960
ten million. This guy makes like six figure. It makes
797
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.000
like one hundred thousand dollars in the song. And they
798
00:41:54.039 --> 00:41:57.239
didn't see any of it. Yeah, and I'm going, how
799
00:41:57.360 --> 00:41:59.679
is that right? How did the rates? I don't want
800
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:01.320
to get it that, but like just the rates of
801
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:04.719
songwriting and all that stuff. It's just it's it's so skewed, man.
802
00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:06.559
It's just it's so crazy.
803
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:08.519
It's an insidious system.
804
00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:08.840
Uh.
805
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:11.920
And it's just and over time, but it's always been
806
00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:13.840
that way, right, I mean the artists always end up
807
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:15.519
getting you know, screwed, and.
808
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:17.280
It's just a dawn of time.
809
00:42:18.039 --> 00:42:22.039
Yeah, and it's uh and it continues today. Uh And
810
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:25.119
and you know the there are there are fixes that
811
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:26.800
need to be made. I think we can agree on
812
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:31.480
that for sure. And the songwriting category and the artist category.
813
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:34.639
So much improvement, man. I mean these people, I throw
814
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:36.800
myself into that mix you as a writer and a
815
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:43.760
producer and artist. It's like we create everything and the
816
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:48.000
people who get make all the money create nothing and
817
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:49.159
can't create anything.
818
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:50.400
Right.
819
00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:52.199
They don't know how to write a song, they don't
820
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:54.159
know how to sing or produced, they don't have they're
821
00:42:54.199 --> 00:42:56.679
not inspired. But you know, and it's just like these
822
00:42:56.719 --> 00:43:00.239
online shows you know over over COVID, who know the
823
00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:02.639
stage here at the house, and we were doing these
824
00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:05.039
online shows and we would get these offers to do
825
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:07.719
online shows. I'm like, is that a serious offer? I'm
826
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:09.360
not doing a show I can't do a show for that.
827
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:12.599
And you know, it's like, well, you know what, We'll
828
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:14.679
do a show. We'll do a show like, oh man,
829
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.840
you have the potential to make literally a million dollars
830
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:21.400
in one night. You know, global, it's a global thing.
831
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:23.320
I'm like, okay, so well, how much your tickets wherever
832
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:24.960
we're going to do these tickets for five bucks or
833
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:27.480
ten bucks or whatever it is, and they sell one
834
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:31.480
hundred tickets or whatever it is, And is the potential there, Yeah,
835
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:34.480
the potential is for me to go, hey, guys, I
836
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:36.119
spend ten let's just say, I have to spend ten
837
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:39.639
thousand dollars on Facebook and I reach all the streaming
838
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:41.679
and I reached my three four to six million people
839
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:44.719
that I have that that follow us in all the platforms,
840
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:46.920
and you go, hey, I got this show. It's going
841
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.599
to be today at noon, blah blah blah. Tickets are
842
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:49.960
a dollar.
843
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:51.039
Cool.
844
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:54.440
So we get here and globally, you know, you have
845
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:56.559
let's say you have two you should be able to
846
00:43:56.679 --> 00:44:00.320
get two million people to either view that show live
847
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:03.440
or in retro like after the fact. And it just
848
00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:08.199
doesn't translate because artists are stupid artists. They'll go on Facebook,
849
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:09.960
to go on Instagram, and they'll go on TikTok or
850
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:12.440
whatever and it'll do these shows for free and hope
851
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:15.760
for tips. And I'm going, guys, we're worth more than this, right,
852
00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:17.119
you know, but they just won't do it.
853
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:21.280
Well. I think that it depends on your your digital platform,
854
00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:24.000
and and and and that's kind of the you know,
855
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:27.880
it's an opportunity uh and uh, you know, for for
856
00:44:28.119 --> 00:44:32.800
a lot of artists, uh in in streaming, because you
857
00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:36.320
have an opportunity to build and create your own audience,
858
00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:40.159
of your own tribes. Uh. It's it's not without some
859
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:44.000
doing uh As. I work with artists in that area.
860
00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:48.360
That's more or less what what I'm doing now. Uh
861
00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:52.400
And uh it's it's not an easy slog. And and
862
00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:55.920
when you look at country music, uh as in terms
863
00:44:55.960 --> 00:45:00.199
of impact uh in the global spectrum, uh, it's really
864
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:05.800
minimal compared to hip hop Top forty Latin. And when
865
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:09.039
you look at the global scale, and I think again,
866
00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:13.199
it's it's being happy with profitability. And you look at
867
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:16.800
you know, the in the country music space. You know
868
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:19.400
the chime I hear all the time as well. We
869
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:21.320
don't have time or the expense to be able to
870
00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:23.679
chase that other fifteen or twenty percent of revenue now
871
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:29.079
costs too much, and so they it's becomes a self
872
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:34.440
limiting area for the artists because the country music spectrum
873
00:45:34.599 --> 00:45:38.039
is considered as a regional format, you know, in the
874
00:45:38.119 --> 00:45:43.119
worldwide scheme of things, where hip hop, Top forty even
875
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:47.599
Latin is regarded as worldwide. And so the very things
876
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:49.599
that people are doing to protect their revenue in the
877
00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:53.719
United States is limiting the growth potential worldwide for artists.
878
00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:56.800
And you know, that's that's been kind of a battle
879
00:45:56.840 --> 00:46:01.079
cry I've had, you know, since Spotify, to work to
880
00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:05.400
globalize the country spectrum more in whatever forms it takes,
881
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:10.079
you know, across the world. And it's really difficult because
882
00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:15.639
you look at Hot Country, the big playlist, everybody on
883
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:18.880
that Spotify it's like, and I'm pardon me while I'm
884
00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:20.679
looking away from the camera because i want to make
885
00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:23.880
sure my numbers are right. But Hot Country has six
886
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:28.760
and a half million followers worldwide, Today's Top Hits thirty
887
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:34.280
million followers worldwide. Wrap Cave are fourteen million followers worldwide.
888
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:38.199
So when you look at that, those two i'll call
889
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:42.559
them genres. But music approaches you know, dwarf country music,
890
00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:47.039
and it becomes limiting in terms of what you're talking
891
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:49.639
about and trying to sell tickets and try to find
892
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:54.079
a global audience, and it just creates some difficulties for
893
00:46:54.199 --> 00:46:56.960
everyone from legacy artists on down to people who are
894
00:46:57.000 --> 00:46:57.760
trying to start out.
895
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:02.320
Yeah, I think what what what's happening? And what's happened
896
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:05.800
is we as artists now have to write and create
897
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:08.639
the songs and give it away just to build use
898
00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:12.519
the music as a vessel and a tool to build
899
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:16.960
our social media following for sponsorships or any any of
900
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:19.599
these types of things. You know. So the music is
901
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:21.800
it kind of it's kind of going back to teristraal
902
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:25.719
radio where music is just a tool to sell something else,
903
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:28.639
you know, and with your YouTube channels and getting your uh,
904
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:31.679
your your numbers up or or you know. There's a
905
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:33.519
lot of people making a lot of money on Patreon
906
00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:37.039
and uh and I've been They've been bugging me forever
907
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:39.000
to start a Patreon page, and I was like, man,
908
00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:43.400
I just it just seems like asking for money and
909
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:45.800
it just seems kind of weird, you know. But I'm like,
910
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:49.119
you know what, there might be something to it in
911
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:53.559
the way of like, let's say I probably write one
912
00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:56.880
hundred songs a year, maybe more, and these are one
913
00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:59.800
hundred songs that probably all my fans would want to hear,
914
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:02.320
but they're never going to hear it because I can't,
915
00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:04.599
you know, I can't afford to go cut master's sides
916
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:07.039
on all these things. But I can record them at
917
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:10.360
my house. I can video that process at my house,
918
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:14.280
and I can put them all up on Patreon and say, hey,
919
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:16.079
for five bucks a month, you can listen to every
920
00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:18.800
song and then if we if we hit certain benchmarks,
921
00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:21.000
we'll make a video just for you guys on Patreon.
922
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:23.039
And I think it'd be a cool thing. And I
923
00:48:23.079 --> 00:48:24.519
started looking at it and I was like, you know what,
924
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:26.800
that might be a really cool thing. I think I
925
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:30.519
would do that if Springsteen started a Patreon or some
926
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:32.800
of these other people, you know, And I think that
927
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:34.880
might be kind of a cool thing. And it's it's
928
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:37.400
not as negatively looked at as I think it was
929
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:41.199
in the in the very beginning. But you know, who knows,
930
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:43.000
who knows what happens, but just we're just all trying
931
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.880
to figure it out, especially you know artists. You know,
932
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:48.679
maybe a little younger than me and older I think
933
00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:50.960
are having a more difficult time getting their head around
934
00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:54.960
what the hell to do to get your music out
935
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:56.679
there and everything else. It's it's one thing to get
936
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:58.039
your music out there, but you got to get on
937
00:48:58.119 --> 00:49:01.199
hot country. Well that's not easy anymore as the it's
938
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:04.360
reserved for the major labels a lot a lot of times,
939
00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:08.719
and they're being kind of treated like the big country
940
00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:12.679
the reporting radio stations now where it's like exactly, you know,
941
00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:16.400
and once again, here we go again. It just happened
942
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:17.960
a lot, a hell of a lot faster than it
943
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:18.599
did in radio.
944
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:21.000
Go ahead, No.
945
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.920
I was just saying, yeah, I've heard for probably a
946
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:28.000
decade now that radio is dying. Radio is dead. Radio
947
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:32.039
is dying, and it still seems like it's the driving
948
00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:36.719
force for commercial country music. That it equates ticket sales
949
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:39.079
and and everything else. And you know, there's still a
950
00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:42.360
charting system. And I hope the chart never dies because
951
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:45.320
that's that was my dream when I was a kid,
952
00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:47.519
to get on the chart, have a number one. I
953
00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:49.960
know what it feels like to have number one. I
954
00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:52.000
know what it feels like to accept awards and all
955
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:57.039
these things, and you know, without that element, it's going
956
00:49:57.119 --> 00:49:58.960
to be a different thing. And I know that Spotify
957
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:01.760
and streams and all these things kind of those numbers
958
00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:05.679
are kind of extrapolated and put into the grand scheme
959
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:08.599
of things in order to have your numbers and everything else,
960
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:11.800
you know, But I hope that never goes away. Do
961
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:13.880
you think that radio is ever going to die?
962
00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:14.880
Like?
963
00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:17.000
No, not at all.
964
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:20.559
It just has to evolve to the you know, business climates,
965
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:26.400
just like every business uh endeavor does. I mean you
966
00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:28.880
look at their their moving more to uh you know,
967
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:33.079
nationalizing their playlist to be more competitive to uh to
968
00:50:33.519 --> 00:50:37.280
to even the same DJs all across the United States
969
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:40.760
in the same times of day. Uh. And they're just
970
00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:44.920
adjusting to market climates and business and revenue climates. Is
971
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:50.599
everybody needs to when when their market changes, advertising revenue
972
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:53.960
and the like. Uh. And and you know Spotify is
973
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:57.800
is and and the streaming I should say more the
974
00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:02.119
streaming services, not just Spotify, moving you know more toward
975
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:08.280
a radio paradigm. And you know, even I can see
976
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:12.599
it as I work across those platforms, and you know
977
00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:16.440
it's just and and I could say that they're making
978
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:20.880
some appeals to listenership that and people are leaving that form,
979
00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:23.960
and why are they wanting to do that thing that
980
00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:27.440
is stale and people are leaving. That's a that's a
981
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:31.320
question for the streaming business people to answer. I think
982
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:33.400
some of it's a bid to gain a bit of
983
00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:37.360
an older audience, because streaming platforms are still more youthful
984
00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:42.320
in nature. But that's just me expressing an opinion, right, right.
985
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:45.920
But I do tell the artists I'm working with, and
986
00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:50.320
and to your point was very simply this, it's getting
987
00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:54.199
back to those days where you know, back in the fifties, sixties,
988
00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:57.159
even seventies, you know, people were breaking out regionally and
989
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:02.039
building their national constituencies. Were talking about Detroit and Cleveland
990
00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:07.360
and Memphis and you know, Nashville. All of these music
991
00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:11.079
forms were breaking out of these regions. Bob Seger broke
992
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:14.000
out of Detroit, you know, and as a local uh
993
00:52:14.239 --> 00:52:17.360
and the James Gang, Joe Walsh broke out of Cleveland,
994
00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:20.599
and and there are many many others. Motown was a
995
00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:25.559
regional thing, as was Memphis and Stacks and and and
996
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:29.880
that's kind of where I think I suggest people to
997
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:33.440
start building is is taking your market strengths from where
998
00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:35.760
you have an audience already. And I'm working with some
999
00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:40.239
audience that are that have Louisiana uh uh strengths, and
1000
00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:44.679
others have the South Carolina's a southeast as strengths. And
1001
00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:49.599
and and we start building our constituencies based on where
1002
00:52:49.719 --> 00:52:52.559
you strong and how can we use that to expand
1003
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:55.840
the geography and and and that's generally the approach this
1004
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:59.840
day these days for younger artists and even legacy artists
1005
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:02.639
who have a national audience. But how can you how
1006
00:53:02.679 --> 00:53:04.480
can you translate to streaming numbers?
1007
00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:06.880
It seems like just hearing you say that, like if
1008
00:53:06.920 --> 00:53:09.519
you're big in Ohio, you know you've got Cleveland wrapped up.
1009
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:14.199
It seems like those regions have become applications. So now
1010
00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:17.000
instead of having a you're big in Cleveland, I'm huge
1011
00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:20.000
on TikTok or I'm huge on Instagram, And then you
1012
00:53:20.119 --> 00:53:23.039
take those and those are your regions now, and then
1013
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:24.719
you know, do you have a record label. It's like
1014
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:30.719
Walker Hayes, you know, uh, great guy, great artist, very
1015
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:35.480
very original. You know I've heard you know, you know
1016
00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:37.440
Shane McAnally say, you know, I didn't know what to
1017
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:39.320
do with you, but I know you're just too good
1018
00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:42.239
to say to ignore, and then he puts this song
1019
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:45.199
out and it blows up on TikTok, and then the
1020
00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:47.280
label puts it out on you know, and they chase
1021
00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:49.239
the radio thing down. They chase everything else down. But
1022
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:51.360
it seems like, and I know that the label that
1023
00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:54.000
we used to be at is like no longer going
1024
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:56.119
to radio first for some of their acts. It's like,
1025
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:58.440
if you build something good enough on your on the
1026
00:53:58.599 --> 00:54:01.280
on the social media's and the DSP, then we'll take
1027
00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:03.280
that to radio. And it's like I've talked to the
1028
00:54:03.400 --> 00:54:05.039
artists and they're like, man, this really sucks. It's like,
1029
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:07.239
you know, it just puts all the work back on
1030
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:11.199
the artist, you know. But I don't know, you know,
1031
00:54:11.320 --> 00:54:13.639
But now I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
1032
00:54:14.039 --> 00:54:16.159
I think artists in a lot of ways are have
1033
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:20.199
become lazy in that way and very uneducated. I know,
1034
00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:22.920
I was uneducated on how the business works, how my
1035
00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:25.239
thing works. I mean, I'm doing you know, I'm doing
1036
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:29.039
this podcast today, and you know, just recording my own music,
1037
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:31.280
producing my own music and do all that sort of things.
1038
00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:34.079
When you have someone doing everything for you, and then
1039
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:36.079
when we found ourselves, it's it's you just get kind
1040
00:54:36.079 --> 00:54:37.400
of get lazy and you don't know what's going on
1041
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:40.239
around you, and it's and you become ignorant. And that's
1042
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:42.079
really a bad place for an artist to be because
1043
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:43.840
you can let a lot of things slide, you know.
1044
00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:47.800
And I found out, you know, a guy that owns
1045
00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:49.800
the label that we went to after our last label
1046
00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:53.679
was stealing literally stealing money from me from an album
1047
00:54:53.719 --> 00:54:57.400
that I owned. Wow, was stealing streams, you know, like
1048
00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:59.760
twenty five grand worth. You know. It's just like a
1049
00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:03.480
you know, so, But I have a really great admin
1050
00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:05.440
girl now and she hunts down every penny. She knows
1051
00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:07.639
where every penny's going. So I'm like, Okay, I have
1052
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:09.440
all these pieces in place, and it's made me a
1053
00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:12.159
better artist going into this new deal that we're getting
1054
00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:18.719
ready to go into, which I think when I'm told now, man,
1055
00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:21.079
we cut some great music and I think the lead
1056
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:26.320
single is just amazing, and late February early March next year,
1057
00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:29.320
we'll have a new single out, new deal and very
1058
00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:31.039
very excited. We didn't think that we ever wanted to
1059
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:33.400
do it again, but but here we are. Just when
1060
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:35.000
I thought they were I was out, they pulled me
1061
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:35.400
back in.
1062
00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:39.199
You know, so you know, and what you're saying is
1063
00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:39.719
so true.
1064
00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:40.000
Is the.
1065
00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:45.519
Even with the younger artists who you'd think would be.
1066
00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:51.079
You know, more savvy about streaming and about you know,
1067
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:55.519
the digital marketplace. It's really interesting, you know, about the
1068
00:55:55.599 --> 00:56:00.519
lack of education in those areas, which helps my business
1069
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:04.840
prospects a little bit, you know. And and also uh
1070
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:08.800
that that that element that you described about you know,
1071
00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:10.920
having a number one on the charts and wanting a
1072
00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:12.960
number one on the charts and I want to go
1073
00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:15.480
to radio and I need to be on the radio
1074
00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:20.400
is a culturally ingrained thing from you know, from kids
1075
00:56:20.440 --> 00:56:24.400
all the way up UH to UH to the legacy artists.
1076
00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:25.440
And beyond uh.
1077
00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:28.639
And and it's it's like, well, radio is not out
1078
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:30.480
of reach, it's just the steps to get there are
1079
00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:31.599
different than it used to be.
1080
00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:33.880
Uh God, there are some steps.
1081
00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:36.599
There are still steps because there were.
1082
00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:38.599
No steps before streaming services, either.
1083
00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:40.440
You on a radio or where you weren't.
1084
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:44.039
That's right, if you ate you eating probably because you
1085
00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:46.679
you it's a big eight if that's the case.
1086
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:50.079
And at least now you know there are steps you
1087
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:53.000
can take or even ways that you can formulate, uh
1088
00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:57.039
to make your music, living making music, you know, if
1089
00:56:57.079 --> 00:56:59.760
you get creative about it, and and and you're right,
1090
00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:02.559
if you do your own sets of work instead of
1091
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:05.199
waiting for the labels or someone else to do it
1092
00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:08.039
for you. And that's the other element that people are
1093
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:11.320
just used to is other people doing that. And and
1094
00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:15.639
now today it's it's really the best opportunity in the world,
1095
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:18.840
I think for anybody who wants to make music, because anybody,
1096
00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:23.119
no matter how good or not good you are, or
1097
00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:27.480
whatever it is, you can find an audience in the
1098
00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:29.320
world now for your music.
1099
00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:31.599
And to use your social media to drive that. Like
1100
00:57:32.360 --> 00:57:35.519
it's all ancestral. So you have to be you have
1101
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:37.159
to be We have to be better artists, We have
1102
00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:38.159
to be smarter artists.
1103
00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:38.760
You know.
1104
00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:41.239
One thing when I was in college, I was at
1105
00:57:41.239 --> 00:57:44.519
a fraternity as I was, and one thing I took
1106
00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:47.960
away from that is they just they drove into our hit.
1107
00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:49.840
They drove into our heads over and over and over
1108
00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:52.960
again about learning all the preambles and all the things
1109
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:56.719
of your fraternity, know your shit, know your ship. And
1110
00:57:56.920 --> 00:57:59.239
so that's one thing that I took away from that
1111
00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:02.159
that I've tried to apply to my life across the board.
1112
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:05.480
It's like I need to know what I'm doing and
1113
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:07.480
how it gets there and everything else in order to
1114
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:13.199
otherwise you're just giving it all away probably, But anyway,
1115
00:58:13.239 --> 00:58:15.639
I want I want to I want to know you
1116
00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:18.639
with radio with me next m And now you're the
1117
00:58:18.639 --> 00:58:22.119
guy at Spotify, and now you leave. Something that's wrong
1118
00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:27.239
with you. Man, you're ready for president next I think
1119
00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:28.559
you might have a shot. By the way.
1120
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:31.639
It's like, you know, it's Uh, that's probably the saddest
1121
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:32.519
truth of all, isn't it.
1122
00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:34.320
I think he got a shop, but I know I
1123
00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:38.119
damn sure to vote for you. You know, it's not
1124
00:58:38.239 --> 00:58:39.280
good there today.
1125
00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:44.960
But you know it's I'll just say it was time
1126
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:48.480
to leave. H It was you know, mutual in nature.
1127
00:58:48.519 --> 00:58:52.079
And we're still friends at Spotify, and I love the
1128
00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:55.760
people that I used to work with, and and you know,
1129
00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:57.800
a lot of the you know, some of the things
1130
00:58:57.880 --> 00:59:01.519
that we've covered, you know, are kind of part and
1131
00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:05.840
part uh, conditions of why both of us felt we
1132
00:59:06.119 --> 00:59:09.679
we needed to get a change of scenery. And and
1133
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:12.159
it's not bad at all, you know. And uh, I
1134
00:59:12.239 --> 00:59:14.880
still work with my friends at Spotify on artists and
1135
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:19.000
and things that I'm doing, and so Uh. But after
1136
00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:22.760
after five six years, however long it was, and and
1137
00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:25.840
where it started, you know, when I came in was
1138
00:59:26.360 --> 00:59:30.519
you know, Spotify needed some credibility uh in in the
1139
00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:36.280
music area. Uh and some representation in the country music space. Uh.
1140
00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:40.320
And as as the subscribership grew, as all of these
1141
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:45.159
other things grew, uh, the methodologies of curation uh were
1142
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:49.239
evolving and and and that's uh, you know, that's good
1143
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:51.280
for them, you know, as they they're changing the way
1144
00:59:51.320 --> 00:59:55.119
they need to do things. They're adapting due to their growth.
1145
00:59:55.239 --> 00:59:58.800
And not only that, the the the amount of releases
1146
00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:05.000
that are that come out every week it's impossible to maintain.
1147
01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:07.639
And so they're they're changing their curation methods to be
1148
01:00:07.719 --> 01:00:11.960
able to address that. Uh. And you know I won't
1149
01:00:12.199 --> 01:00:15.480
entirely disagree with their thought behind it. You know, we
1150
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:18.719
could debate the merits all day long, uh, but but
1151
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:23.039
I won't argue the need for that thought uh.
1152
01:00:23.239 --> 01:00:23.719
And uh.
1153
01:00:24.159 --> 01:00:27.920
And so everything was peaceful and friendly and and it
1154
01:00:28.400 --> 01:00:31.880
was an impetus to help me go out on my own.
1155
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:34.760
I've never been an entrepreneur even a business person all
1156
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:38.800
your life making music uh and uh and this is
1157
01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:40.280
a brand new experience. For me.
1158
01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:41.000
Uh.
1159
01:00:41.159 --> 01:00:43.519
And I'm able to work in elements and facets of
1160
01:00:43.639 --> 01:00:46.599
music that I want to work in which I really
1161
01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:51.079
love and enjoy and so and I'm working without constraints, uh,
1162
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:54.519
you know. And uh and with Spotify and Serious Exam
1163
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:56.960
and and radio. If I fell in love with an artist,
1164
01:00:57.000 --> 01:00:59.039
I could only do so much due to the rules
1165
01:00:59.079 --> 01:01:03.239
of engagement and all of those platforms. And rightfully so
1166
01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:06.599
those rules exist. So I'm not saying that that's a
1167
01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:09.320
bad thing. All I'm saying now is, you know, I can.
1168
01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:12.039
I can work with anyone I want to and in
1169
01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:16.280
any form I care to and uh and it's all
1170
01:01:16.440 --> 01:01:20.039
takes different matters depending on the artists or the entity
1171
01:01:20.119 --> 01:01:23.800
I'm working with. So I'm really enjoying my time doing it.
1172
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:28.320
And uh uh I started, I left Spotify in April,
1173
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:30.119
you know, formed my company.
1174
01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:34.800
H And I'm just not hearing about it experience.
1175
01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:35.360
I'm sorry.
1176
01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:37.599
It just recently the last couple of weeks I've just
1177
01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:40.719
heard hearing about I want to talk about that. I
1178
01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:42.719
do want to thank you real quick. And I know
1179
01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:45.159
I speak for a lot of artists too, though, but uh,
1180
01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:47.920
you stuck your head out, you stuck your neck out.
1181
01:01:47.960 --> 01:01:50.880
A lot for certain artists that weren't being played on
1182
01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:54.559
the radio, and you put them on playlist. That made
1183
01:01:54.559 --> 01:01:59.679
a difference and actually made their careers. You made You
1184
01:01:59.800 --> 01:02:03.159
had people who didn't have anything get record deals and
1185
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:06.760
didn't have any streams, and you took a chance on him.
1186
01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:09.320
And and you were the you were the weird guy
1187
01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:13.400
that was like, hey, this song doesn't sound like traditional
1188
01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:15.519
country music, or it's got that it sounds rappy, or
1189
01:02:15.519 --> 01:02:18.199
it sounds whatever, and you played it, you know, and
1190
01:02:18.280 --> 01:02:21.000
it's that was I thought. You thought that was so bad.
1191
01:02:21.039 --> 01:02:23.440
Asked to be able to do that, and and it
1192
01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:25.199
really made a difference for a whole lot of artists.
1193
01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:28.599
And you know, the time that we were independent. Uh,
1194
01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:30.679
I took you over to Nathan Chapman's house. I asked
1195
01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:32.320
you and calling over there and we had some wine
1196
01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:36.079
and we listened to the Masterpiece record and you playlisted
1197
01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:40.360
that you know, and and because of that love like this. Uh,
1198
01:02:40.599 --> 01:02:43.440
it's probably the fourth most stream fifth most stream song
1199
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:46.280
you know, in our in our top catalog or whatever.
1200
01:02:46.840 --> 01:02:49.519
But I had radio stations man that that played uh,
1201
01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:52.719
that played some of those songs at a high frequency
1202
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:55.519
and pissed a lot of people off because they were
1203
01:02:55.719 --> 01:02:58.280
getting it for free, you know, or we were getting
1204
01:02:58.280 --> 01:03:01.000
it for free. But thank you for that, man, because
1205
01:03:01.039 --> 01:03:03.000
that that was a that was a big deal. And
1206
01:03:03.320 --> 01:03:05.079
I really want people to walk away from this being
1207
01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:07.000
a little bit more educated than what they were before.
1208
01:03:07.960 --> 01:03:11.159
But I did hear recently that you did start this
1209
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:15.119
new company. And is it with Jimmy Allen? Is that
1210
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:18.480
is that the what's what's the relationship with Jimmy?
1211
01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:19.159
Uh?
1212
01:03:19.559 --> 01:03:22.880
That is I'll say a part of my my company.
1213
01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:27.239
Uh. The the thing with Jimmy Allen uh is jab
1214
01:03:27.360 --> 01:03:31.639
Management and and we're behind uh a new duo called
1215
01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:35.280
uh you know, Neon Union uh and uh and that
1216
01:03:35.800 --> 01:03:40.159
is is a piece of of my company and their
1217
01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:44.119
company and we're just working together to develop this this
1218
01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:46.519
this artist basically management.
1219
01:03:46.679 --> 01:03:47.039
You want.
1220
01:03:47.559 --> 01:03:50.000
So what's the name of what's the name of your company? H?
1221
01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:52.599
My name of my company is John Marks Worldwide.
1222
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:55.320
It's very you're going to say Sebastian.
1223
01:03:57.920 --> 01:04:00.400
And uh and and I won't put in the shameless
1224
01:04:00.440 --> 01:04:03.719
plug for my website John Mark's dot me uh and
1225
01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:07.840
uh and it kind of tells what what I'm involved with.
1226
01:04:07.960 --> 01:04:11.679
But that's a piece of it. I work with artists individually.
1227
01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:16.119
I work with entities with their artists. It could be
1228
01:04:16.199 --> 01:04:22.440
publishing management, uh, you know, distribution companies, uh, publisher whoever,
1229
01:04:22.800 --> 01:04:26.000
whoever has an interest in artist development, you know, is
1230
01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:28.760
where I want to be and care to be. And
1231
01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:32.719
I have you know, business relationships now with people in
1232
01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:36.480
all of those secretaries and uh. And I really love
1233
01:04:36.559 --> 01:04:40.119
it because each artist is a is a different case
1234
01:04:40.159 --> 01:04:42.280
scenario uh and uh.
1235
01:04:42.519 --> 01:04:44.199
And you know it's fun, you.
1236
01:04:44.239 --> 01:04:49.480
Know, plotting uh, plotting strategies and and putting puzzle pieces
1237
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:52.840
together to try and you know, help artists find or
1238
01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:57.559
grow their audience, grow their touring, grow their streaming, you know,
1239
01:04:57.840 --> 01:05:01.079
get them to a place where radio will make notice
1240
01:05:01.119 --> 01:05:03.840
of them and and so you know, unfortunately it's not
1241
01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:06.840
an easy process. But but those are the things I'm
1242
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:09.079
doing every day now and I just love it.
1243
01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:13.559
That's awesome, man. And do you think what's the future
1244
01:05:13.679 --> 01:05:16.159
is this? It seems like you're a five year cycle guy,
1245
01:05:18.039 --> 01:05:20.239
you know what I mean, It's like it's very five years.
1246
01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:23.840
I'm out, you know, Uh is just something that you
1247
01:05:24.159 --> 01:05:26.000
do you think of it that way? Yeah, yeah, you
1248
01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:27.880
were saying five years, five years. I was like, well,
1249
01:05:27.960 --> 01:05:31.360
this guy's gonna stop after five years? Is this something
1250
01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:33.559
that you think that you want to take beyond that
1251
01:05:33.679 --> 01:05:35.679
five years and like be the kind of the last
1252
01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:37.639
rodeo for you? And did you want to do this
1253
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:40.639
until until you just don't want to do music anymore?
1254
01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:44.199
And yeah, I'll keep doing what I want to do.
1255
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:47.639
And all of those different phases and and the I'll
1256
01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:51.639
just say either the universal forces or the human forces
1257
01:05:51.800 --> 01:05:55.800
in combination. You know, it was each one was kind
1258
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:58.639
of a natural end and a natural beginning. It wasn't
1259
01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:00.320
like I got fired and I had to look for
1260
01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:01.039
a job or whatever.
1261
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:02.280
It's like radio.
1262
01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:04.199
I wanted it to end, and we were going to
1263
01:06:04.360 --> 01:06:06.239
end it, and I didn't really care if I had
1264
01:06:06.280 --> 01:06:09.840
another job right away. And the Serious XM thing happened.
1265
01:06:10.199 --> 01:06:13.559
You know, I left Serious XM uh and uh of
1266
01:06:13.719 --> 01:06:17.599
my own volition and and wish to uh take a break,
1267
01:06:17.719 --> 01:06:21.559
and Spotify came along, uh and was able to join
1268
01:06:21.639 --> 01:06:25.320
into that, which was a cool venture. And I just
1269
01:06:25.519 --> 01:06:27.559
and and you know, at the end, at the end
1270
01:06:27.599 --> 01:06:30.920
of all that, it's like in broad general terms, Uh,
1271
01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:33.639
my love and enjoyment of it was on the way
1272
01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:36.880
uh and and it's uh and it just kind of
1273
01:06:36.920 --> 01:06:39.039
came to a natural end, and I think it'll be
1274
01:06:39.159 --> 01:06:42.239
the same with this or whatever else I find, you know,
1275
01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:45.920
and I just love with in this that just the
1276
01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:48.559
world is much larger and much more broad.
1277
01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:53.480
My learnings are every day. Really, I'm learning even more.
1278
01:06:54.079 --> 01:06:58.280
Uh. I'd never come across to myself or to people
1279
01:06:58.360 --> 01:07:00.760
that I know everything in the music business. But you know,
1280
01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:02.599
and the more I do this, the more I know
1281
01:07:02.719 --> 01:07:05.400
I don't know and uh, and the more I'm learning
1282
01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:09.000
and uh and and that for me is what challenges me.
1283
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:11.039
You know. If I start feeling like I'm hitting the
1284
01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:13.639
top and whatever I'm doing, I just need to move
1285
01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:14.480
on to something else.
1286
01:07:14.679 --> 01:07:17.159
Man, I know exactly how you feel. I'm terrible at
1287
01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:17.840
reaching goals.
1288
01:07:18.280 --> 01:07:18.440
You know.
1289
01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:20.519
I'll reach a goal and I go into this depression
1290
01:07:21.480 --> 01:07:24.360
every time we've won an award. I mean, we won
1291
01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:25.840
our first a c M and I was like, this
1292
01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:28.039
is amazing. And then I was in the corner of
1293
01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:30.079
the bar and everyone was celebrating. I was there smoking
1294
01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:31.760
a cigar and just like, what's wrong with you?
1295
01:07:32.440 --> 01:07:32.519
Now?
1296
01:07:32.559 --> 01:07:33.239
What do I do? Now?
1297
01:07:33.920 --> 01:07:34.039
You know?
1298
01:07:34.239 --> 01:07:37.119
So I definitely uh, and I kind of feel that
1299
01:07:37.159 --> 01:07:39.480
way in my life right now. It's just like it's
1300
01:07:39.960 --> 01:07:42.639
things are too things are too good, things are too easy.
1301
01:07:42.639 --> 01:07:44.559
You got to shake this up. Something's going on you now.
1302
01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:46.960
So hopefully this new deal and everything else will shake
1303
01:07:47.039 --> 01:07:51.480
that up for me. But man, I've thoroughly enjoyed talking
1304
01:07:51.480 --> 01:07:54.440
to you today as as a as A as A.
1305
01:07:55.119 --> 01:07:57.159
It's a different format and just two guys sitting down
1306
01:07:57.159 --> 01:07:59.840
and talking. I mean, I've learned some stuff today about you.
1307
01:08:00.280 --> 01:08:04.880
And you know, the resume that you have is incredible.
1308
01:08:05.360 --> 01:08:07.920
I can't imagine anybody not wanting to to work with
1309
01:08:08.039 --> 01:08:11.519
you as far as in your consulting firm because because wow,
1310
01:08:11.559 --> 01:08:13.079
I mean, there's not going to be anybody else that
1311
01:08:13.119 --> 01:08:14.480
I can even think of that's going to have the
1312
01:08:15.039 --> 01:08:17.439
kind of deal or the beard that you have. You know,
1313
01:08:17.640 --> 01:08:22.079
the beard. Really I hope you really need to make merch, man,
1314
01:08:22.279 --> 01:08:24.319
you really need to make merch with the outline with
1315
01:08:24.399 --> 01:08:26.520
your beard, because that's that's if you guys are.
1316
01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:31.520
Hang on a second, hell okay, hit pause, I'll be
1317
01:08:31.640 --> 01:08:32.079
right back.
1318
01:08:32.279 --> 01:08:38.439
All right, Oh gosh, all right, so uh so.
1319
01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:40.199
We'll we'll I'll take it from it.
1320
01:08:40.359 --> 01:08:43.439
You ought to do merch, okay, okay, So man, with
1321
01:08:43.520 --> 01:08:46.319
that beard, you really should have your own merch that's
1322
01:08:46.359 --> 01:08:46.720
for sure.
1323
01:08:47.239 --> 01:08:51.239
Well, uh funny you should mention that, Keifer right here
1324
01:08:52.359 --> 01:08:52.760
it is.
1325
01:08:53.520 --> 01:08:57.640
Look at that. There's the outline too, that's the gem.
1326
01:08:57.960 --> 01:08:59.960
I gotta get me one of them. I gotta get
1327
01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:02.119
and no, it's.
1328
01:09:02.039 --> 01:09:05.439
Like a tour on the way, you know, and I haven't.
1329
01:09:05.800 --> 01:09:08.600
I don't sell it, you know. It's like actually a
1330
01:09:08.760 --> 01:09:12.239
friend of mine, a colleague of mine, sent me a
1331
01:09:12.319 --> 01:09:14.680
box of these things just for fun, because that's my
1332
01:09:14.800 --> 01:09:18.239
logo on the website. And he sent me some hats,
1333
01:09:18.600 --> 01:09:21.199
so I said, I just quite frankly, I haven't quite
1334
01:09:21.239 --> 01:09:22.840
figured out what to do with them now, just to
1335
01:09:22.960 --> 01:09:23.640
send a couple to you.
1336
01:09:23.800 --> 01:09:24.079
How's that?
1337
01:09:24.399 --> 01:09:25.000
I love that?
1338
01:09:25.319 --> 01:09:28.359
I love that, And then I will I will be
1339
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:34.720
wearing Yes, thank you very much. Has Miss Colling ever
1340
01:09:34.760 --> 01:09:35.399
seen your face?
1341
01:09:36.920 --> 01:09:37.439
She has not.
1342
01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:43.600
Actually, I've always had I've always had facial hair as
1343
01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:45.520
long as I can remember. I was like, I kind
1344
01:09:45.520 --> 01:09:48.039
of I kind of get curious about it myself. I
1345
01:09:48.159 --> 01:09:50.199
probably scare myself if I saw my face.
1346
01:09:53.720 --> 01:09:54.720
Yeah, I didn't do that to us.
1347
01:09:56.800 --> 01:09:57.000
Brother.
1348
01:09:57.279 --> 01:10:00.039
I can't thank you enough for doing our podcast, and
1349
01:10:00.279 --> 01:10:02.199
it's great to see you. I'm glad you're doing well.
1350
01:10:02.279 --> 01:10:03.880
I'm glad you're doing exactly what you want to do
1351
01:10:03.960 --> 01:10:06.640
and you're happy and you and you and your wife
1352
01:10:06.640 --> 01:10:08.640
are just the just two of the most beautiful people
1353
01:10:08.680 --> 01:10:10.920
that we know, and we deeply care about you.
1354
01:10:12.119 --> 01:10:14.399
And back to you. I love you and Shauna and
1355
01:10:14.840 --> 01:10:17.000
UH and I can't wait to hear what you're working
1356
01:10:17.039 --> 01:10:19.640
on music wise, and I know when you're ready send
1357
01:10:19.680 --> 01:10:20.159
it over.
1358
01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:21.960
To me and I'll send it to you when we
1359
01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:24.439
get done with this. I'm sorry, I'll send it to
1360
01:10:24.439 --> 01:10:26.319
you when I get done with this. Okay, right on,
1361
01:10:26.479 --> 01:10:29.720
brother man. I will talk to you soon. And Keifer
1362
01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:32.079
is great talking with you, and back to you. I
1363
01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:34.880
just love shooting the breeze about music. I never get
1364
01:10:34.960 --> 01:10:38.720
tired of talking music. That's thank you, you got it. Brother, Well,
1365
01:10:38.720 --> 01:10:39.960
good luck, God bless man.
1366
01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:42.800
Back to you much love, I'll see you.
1367
01:10:45.319 --> 01:10:45.720
Okay.
1368
01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:47.359
That was.
1369
01:10:49.199 --> 01:10:54.039
Mister John Marx. I hope you guys enjoyed that. I
1370
01:10:54.119 --> 01:10:56.039
hope you. I hope you learned something. If you're an
1371
01:10:56.079 --> 01:10:57.880
artist out there, I hope you learned something and I
1372
01:10:57.920 --> 01:11:01.520
think you should check it out. UH John Marks Worldwide.
1373
01:11:01.640 --> 01:11:04.239
Thank you guys so much for UH for listening, and
1374
01:11:04.399 --> 01:11:05.840
we will We'll see you next time,