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00:00:04.959Welcome to the Deby Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees.
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00:00:06.480I'm your host, Doug Oester.
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00:00:16.000Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more.
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00:00:23.199Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees Podcast, we know trees are the answer.
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00:00:25.760I'm joined again this week by Dan Hagar.
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00:00:32.560He is a district manager of the Concord Massachusetts office of Hartley Greymont, a Davy company.
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00:00:37.600And today we're talking about something I know barely anything about, which is beech leaf disease.
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00:00:39.280Hi Dan, welcome back.
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00:00:40.479Thanks, Doug.
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00:00:42.640It's uh great to talk to you again.
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00:00:46.880Well, when does beech leaf disease come into your world?
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00:00:49.439Uh a long time ago, recently.
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00:00:57.119We started seeing it about two to three years ago, actually, probably more like four years ago now, if I think about it.
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00:01:01.359Um, and right now it's it's reaping havoc on our beech trees.
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00:01:03.759We're in full-fledged outbreak.
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00:01:06.959So tell me what it does and what it looks like.
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00:01:17.040So, what it really does is it destroys the leaves or makes the leaves so they can't properly um store create energy for the tree.
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00:01:23.760Um, one of the first signs that we're gonna see is some dark bands between the leaf veins.
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00:01:26.400Um, if you see those, then you're in trouble.
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00:01:39.439And if the tree can't properly photosynthesize and store up energy, it's not gonna have enough energy to continue to leaf out and grow and do the good things trees do.
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00:01:42.319Is this a disease that spreads?
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00:01:51.760Yes, um, it's actually caused by a uh uh a little little worm called a nematode.
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00:02:04.799Um, and the uh current theories on how it's spreading is is these nematodes are blowing through the wind, um, can travel on birds, it's just a microscopic thing.
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00:02:10.800Um is that something that came from another place, or do we know where it came from?
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00:02:12.479Where where is its origin?
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00:02:30.960Yep, so this this disease came from uh the Asia, Asia area, and um uh the um European beech trees seem to be more resistant as they've been potentially in contact with this uh uh disease in the past.
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00:02:35.280Our American beech trees are the ones that are really in rough shape right now.
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00:02:40.319What's the prognosis for a tree that gets this if it's not treated?
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00:02:42.719Uh slim, very slim.
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00:02:43.280Wow.
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00:02:51.280It's a quick acting thing after a couple of years of not being able to store up the proper energy, they they decline fairly rapidly.
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00:02:54.159Is there a way to treat a tree?
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00:02:59.439Uh yes, there are a couple of treatments in our our quiver.
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00:03:04.159Um there's no cure, so these are ongoing things.
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00:03:10.479Um you know, we got basically three three approaches.
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00:03:21.840Um, I guess we can we can go into the uh the least preferred, which is a fungicide called broad form.
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00:03:34.159Um it's it's not the nicest of fungicides to use, so we've kind of reserved this for special trees, uh smaller trees, because we have to get complete coverage of the tree.
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00:03:44.400Um we have to do this a couple of uh two two to three times through the growing season uh to get really good coverage.
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00:03:52.879Um it does do a good job of killing the nematodes, um, but like I said, it's not not the preferred treatment.
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00:03:58.960The preferred treatment I would say is actually a trunk injection.
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00:04:04.719So we drill into the tree and we pump it full of a different fungicide.
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00:04:10.080Uh this lasts actually for two years, uh, so it goes straight into the stem of the tree.
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00:04:13.439Uh, we basically pump it flow full of full of fluids.
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00:04:21.040Um the the weather plays an important role in the tree's ability to take this product up.
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00:04:26.480Um so there can be a little nuance to to getting it into the tree.
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00:04:34.879Um, but it it's we we started doing this, and we're so we're we're in our second year of doing it, and we're seeing some really, really good results.
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00:04:42.560The leaves might um are full full leaves, um, very minor banding, um, so great results.
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00:04:44.160Discuss the weather.
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00:04:46.319How what how what does that have to do with it?
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00:05:03.920So the way the the treatment works is the um it basically has to be pulled up into the canopy of the tree, which um has to be um it works through the tree's ability to I don't want to get too technical, I guess.
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00:05:19.519Um when when trees are properly photosynthesizing, they're pulling up water from the ground on uh and and with that pull um the fluid of the fungicide goes up into the canopy.
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00:05:23.360So a good sunny day with a light breeze is perfect.
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00:05:25.360Okay, okay, I get it.
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00:05:27.519Did you say there was a third treatment?
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00:05:33.199And then the third uh third treatment is we're using a product called PP30.
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00:05:43.839Uh it's it's uh fertilizer that basically soups up cell walls, and um we do it twice a year in the spring and in the fall.
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00:05:51.839Um, and it's uh uh a lot of people can compare it to like a vitamin pack.
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00:06:05.600Um kind of kind of boosts the tree's natural immunity to to not just nematodes and and beach leaf disease, but for for a lot of things and um makes it harder for those little little worms to to interact with the cells.
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00:06:12.000When you talk about the nematode, is it something that can be seen or is or is it microscopic?
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00:06:14.079What size is that nematode?
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00:06:18.079Microscopic, you can't see this with the naked eye at all.
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00:06:25.120And have you had a lot of uh fatalities with beech trees due to this?
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00:06:29.519Yeah, we're definitely seeing seeing decline in the in the in the trees.
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00:06:35.519Um you know the the biggest impact we've seen in this forested areas where it doesn't make sense.
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00:06:44.319We can't treat every tree in a forest, and you you can walk through a forest, you just see trees with gnarled leaves slowly declining.
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00:06:54.079Tell me a little bit about uh working with clients and making this decision should it treat or should I not treat?
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00:07:01.199You know, if you don't treat, the tree's not gonna make it, and if you do treat, you're gonna have to treat forever, right?
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00:07:13.279So there has to be a conversation there as far as if they love the tree, uh, if the tree has important meaning, or if it's a small tree, and you just say, listen, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do that.
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00:07:16.959Or if it's it's too big of a tree, it's like I can't afford to do that.
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00:07:18.720Yeah, absolutely.
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00:07:28.000And it kind of comes down to you know the the clients or the the the owner of the trees, the uh value of the tree.
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00:07:43.519If if they value that tree, if it is fundamental value, or you know, if the legacy tree, some of some of the beach trees we're looking at are two, three hundred years old, and there's certainly a uh uh a big motivation to keep them going.
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00:07:51.360Um for for smaller trees, that may be just a kind of an ornamental thing, then the decision uh or the conversation goes a different way.
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00:07:54.399Oh, but that does not sound fun, Dan.
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00:08:10.560That that sounds, you know, when these things come about, whether it's you know, chestnut blight, emerald ash borer, whatever it is, uh for a plant lover, a tree professional, this is uh this is awful.
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00:08:12.480It absolutely is.
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00:08:20.160Um you know, thinking about our our uh our responsibility as stewards of the environment, you know.
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00:08:33.120Somebody probably introduced this at some point, and now we've gotta do what we can to um keep keep the uh at least the legacy trees going.
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00:08:46.480Um in general, do you think people know about what's going on, or are we seeing beach trees all over the neighborhoods and such just as usual, actually calling the arborist too late?
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00:08:50.639Uh you're never called to to see a pretty tree.
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00:08:53.279You're you're always called to see one in decline.
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00:08:57.759I I actually think we're we're doing a pretty good job of getting the word out on this one.
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00:09:02.559Um a lot of the trees I've been looking at, I don't think it's too late for.
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00:09:12.639Um I think I I think the um we've done a uh just a good job of getting the word out that this is here, this is happening.
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00:09:19.039We we have some some solutions to help keep the trees going if if that's where you choose to go.
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00:09:25.600Have you seen trees that are three years into this that you've been able to save, or is that too long?
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00:09:27.440Uh yes, absolutely.
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00:09:35.679Um we've definitely got some trees that are are night and day from last year to this year and how they how they look.
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00:09:42.960And in general, are these homeowners trees or like the city trees or or or all of it?
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00:09:46.399Uh in general, these are are homeowner trees.
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00:09:53.519Yeah um I'm not sure if there's too many municipalities that are are are working on treating this.
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00:10:01.759Do they have beech trees or then they're not treating them, or are they for the most part, beach trees aren't a big part of of being urban trees?
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00:10:19.360I I would say it's more of like the um park area, so arboretums, um you know, maybe some library grounds, uh those those kind of facilities, but in general, we're not gonna see too many beach trees on like streets or anything like that.
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00:10:22.720Are all types of beach trees affected?
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00:10:24.559Yes, they are.
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00:10:31.039Um there are a lower effect on the European beaches, the purple leaf beaches.
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00:10:39.519Um if if the trees are are stressed out for for other things, um, you know, be then then this would certainly get in there.
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00:10:42.799Um the American beaches are definitely the hardest hit.
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00:10:48.240Um beach trees kind of have a have a tough goal of life.
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00:10:57.600They've not only is there beech leaf disease, there's beech bark disease, there's bleeding canker disease, uh, there's various um funguses that can get in there.
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00:11:05.039Um there's some insects that are kind of unique to beaches that are are fairly benign if if that's the only thing in there.
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00:11:08.960But once you kind of compound all these things, then then we're in trouble.
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00:11:11.840Would you plant a beech tree right now?
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00:11:14.480Honestly, probably not.
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00:11:16.480Probably not.
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00:11:18.559That's sad, Dan.
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00:11:19.200It's really sad.
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00:11:20.559It really is.
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00:11:21.200Yeah.
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00:11:22.559Any prognosis?
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00:11:24.639Are you reading anything, seeing anything?
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00:11:29.200I know scientists have to be going crazy working on this, doing everything they can.
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00:11:38.639Do we have anything in the works that you have read or or uh have thought about that will help the future of this whole species?
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00:11:44.159Yeah, I believe there is a search for a natural predator of the of the nematode.
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00:12:02.080Um, I'm not sure the status of that research, but I know there are some uh some universities looking into to figuring out where the nematode originated from and are looking to get some natural predators.
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00:12:05.120I want to go back to this relationship with the client.
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00:12:16.960Well, you know, if you've worked with a client for who knows how many years and you know, fertilizing the beech tree and it's it's happy, and then they call you, they see this banding on the leaves.
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00:12:29.200Tell me a little bit about these conversations uh that you're having and and how you're how they're making the decision whether to save the tree or or let it go.
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00:12:37.440My gosh, if you have a a big old tree, most people are gonna want to save it in any way they can, right?
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00:12:40.399That's usually how the conversation goes.
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00:12:47.919And for the most part, if if we're working with someone already, we're we're as arborists aware of what's going on.
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00:12:56.399So we're able to catch it early enough and and make sure we're doing all the things we can do uh preventatively if as as much as possible.
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00:13:07.759Um so I would say if if we're already working with someone who's got a big, beautiful beach tree, they're they're they're gonna be in better shape than than someone who's calling us off the off the street.
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00:13:11.039Have you gone to properties where it's too late?
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00:13:12.799I have, yeah.
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00:13:13.279Yep.
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00:13:22.320We we've had to come make some tough decisions to kind of relandscape some some properties where it's just there's just no going back.
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00:13:26.559Is beech tree wood good for anything?
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00:13:27.840Is it a firewood?
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00:13:29.440Is it uh building wood?
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00:13:31.120I don't know anything about it.
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00:13:37.120Um I honestly don't know that we're using it for too many things.
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00:13:39.120Um I've never heard of it.
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00:13:52.000You know, I've never heard when you when the conversation comes up like, oh, I'm making a uh you know, a table out of beach, or I'm uh I'm gonna be burning all beach because it it burns great, but I've never heard it mentioned.
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00:13:58.720Yeah, no, I it doesn't have as high BTUs as like oaks, so it's not as good of a firewood as the oaks and the maples.
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00:14:08.399Um, I believe it dries out fairly quick, and when it dries out like that, it kind of cracks a little bit, so it's not the best for working with in terms of woodworking.
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00:14:10.639But a beautiful tree, that's the thing.
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00:14:11.200Yeah, yeah.
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00:14:15.919Talk a little bit about it for people don't really know what a beech tree is.
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00:14:26.559It is a it is a beautiful tree, and sometimes only because of the name confused with birch, you know, beech and birch are completely different.
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00:14:28.080Completely different things, yeah.
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00:14:39.440I mean, you can well you start down at the at the trunk of the tree and and the the buttress roots, and and you can just see this beautiful smooth gray bark.
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00:14:48.799And as they mature, those the limbs just get bigger and bigger into the the branching architecture as these things grow and stretch out is quite unique.
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00:14:52.159And don't ever carve your initials in one of these trees.
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00:14:53.200Definitely not.
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00:15:01.279It's it's definitely a thinner bark tree, and and those wounds, they they could just take time to heal, and that's just a a sight.
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00:15:07.759Uh uh, once you once you carve open that bark, um, all sorts of fungus and insects can get in there.
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00:15:09.200I hate to see that.
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00:15:10.720Yeah, we see it all the time.
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00:15:18.559I guess more in public spaces, people do that, and it's it's it's the worst thing you can do, one of the worst things you can do to that tree, right?
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00:15:19.440Right, right.
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00:15:26.720Well, Dan, before I let you go, tell me what you hope for the future of beech trees.
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00:15:42.480I I hope we can find a natural predator and um that could start working its way through and and kind of naturally lessening the amount of nematodes that are are affecting these trees so that we can do less treatments.
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00:15:44.000That's my hopes.
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00:15:50.879Well, Dan, it was a uh uh a sad podcast this time around, but uh thanks for all the information.
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00:15:59.120And it's great to get the word out uh because this is going to be a disease that's gonna be a problem for a long time uh and as you said continue to spread.
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00:16:04.720So I appreciate your the information and uh discussing this issue with us.
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00:16:06.480So thanks again for being on the show.
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00:16:07.519No problem, Doug.
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00:16:08.559Great to be on.
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00:16:14.399I have one beech tree on my property, so I am keeping an eye on it for sure.
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00:16:19.120Now, tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees Podcast from the Davy Tree Expert Company.
00:16:19.200 -->
00:16:20.399I'm your host, Doug Oster.
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00:16:52.240As always, we'd like to remind you on the Talking Trees Podcast Trees are the answer.
