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00:00:10.960Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
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00:00:12.480I'm Jeff Cranson.
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00:00:29.600By now, because I've talked about this a number of times in the podcast, you've heard the statistics, but to set up the conversation again, an estimated one to two million vehicles collide with large wildlife in the United States each year.
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00:00:33.679The crashes result in approximately 200 human deaths.
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00:00:41.439That number might actually be higher, and some 26,000 injuries, and billions and billions of dollars in property damage.
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00:00:47.520Nationwide estimates are that$10 billion annually is probably the cost of these things.
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00:00:52.719And just an average collision with a deer alone is at least$20,000.
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00:01:09.599So we know that wildlife crossings can prevent these crashes, and they think already some of the successful ones, especially in the western states, may prevent as many as 1,400 crashes in a 70-year lifespan, which translates into billions of dollars again.
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00:01:34.079So I wanted to catch up with Amanda Novak, who's a resource specialist at MDOT, and she's working hand in hand with counterparts at the Department of Natural Resources with a grant that's allowing for the study of hot spots, places where these crashes happen with great regularity, and then identify mitigation methods.
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00:01:50.799Again, those have been used very successfully in some western states and western provinces of Canada where they've built crossings over freeways and the animals have been funneled toward those crossings, especially elk and moose and bear, big big animals.
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00:01:55.439We have elk and moose in northern Michigan and we have deer all over the state.
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00:02:05.280And there's also some things going on that are part of the study that'll prevent crashes involving smaller animals like turtles, uh pine marten, and others.
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00:02:19.199So I think this is a really important topic, both from a safety standpoint and from a cohabitation standpoint, and that we need to learn to live with the wildlife who populated some of these woods and forests before we did.
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00:02:24.479Amanda Novak, welcome back to the podcast.
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00:02:39.360I always appreciate talking with you about this topic, not only because I have a tremendous personal interest in wildlife and wildlife habitat and what we do to coexist, but also because of the safety components that you and I have talked about before.
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00:02:48.879So we haven't done an update since you kind of had things in place to move ahead with the study that was uh made allowed by this grant.
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00:02:51.520So can you uh talk about where things stand?
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00:02:52.800Yeah, sure, Jeff.
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00:02:56.479I'm happy to be back and actually have a good update this time.
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00:03:09.759Um, so we do have um a contract in place with HDR, um, and we have completed our nearly completed task one, which um includes uh data input.
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00:03:14.080So collecting data sources from all different entities.
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00:03:35.919And so that's been a little bit of a struggle, but we have identified all known collision data sets to this point, and from that, we've drafted crash locations um and started looking at um where the hotspots are and setting it up for um deciding what which areas are a priority.
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00:03:45.919Oh, sorry to interrupt you, but right there I wanted to ask you because anecdotally you had a pretty good idea about the hot spots, but um, has anything surprised you in those findings?
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00:03:53.599Um I think the widespread crash locations for certain species have surprised me.
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00:03:56.479Um, particularly why wild turkey.
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00:04:02.879We've seen them across the entire state, including the southern part of the state, which I don't know why, but that really surprised me.
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00:04:06.560Um just distributions of things was was interesting.
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00:04:14.479We did see some of the hot spots that we thought we would see for the kind of the species that don't aren't so widespread.
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00:04:20.079But deer, of course, I mean, when they're when the layers turned on, it's overwhelming, as you might imagine.
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00:04:24.639So we're just it's just a preliminary look at it at this point.
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00:04:34.160And um, from this, we're gonna wrap this stage up in about a month, and then we'll be moving into actually looking at the ecological view.
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00:04:45.199So we'll start to look at the surrounding habitats and how those correlate to where these crash locations are and start actually giving some risk um based criteria to our findings.
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00:04:50.079So, how did you um assemble the list and create those layers that you're talking about?
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00:04:58.160Well, we took we have priority species in the grant um application, um, which were the larger species that impact motorist safety.
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00:05:03.839So that was the moose, the deer, the black bear, the turkeys, um and elk.
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00:05:15.199And those were pretty easy to analyze because we've got crash data back 10 years on all those species, and I'm not an MSP do a really good job of tracking that.
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00:05:37.920So that was pretty easy to populate, where it's been a little bit more difficult is to um track crash locations for the smaller species that you know people don't typically report and are kind of hard to find even when you're doing carcass collection because they are so small and you can't really either tell what they are or they're gone by the time you look.
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00:05:44.000Besides turtles, which we talked about a lot, uh what else do you include in that small species category?
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00:05:46.480We are looking in the grant.
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00:05:55.920Um, we are looking at uh the eastern Massasaga rattlesnake, which is a TNA species that MDOT protects in our projects as well.
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00:06:02.720Um and DNR obviously has an interest in other entities do in protecting that species too.
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00:06:05.120But MDOT has some pretty good data on that.
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00:06:14.480So I think what we're gonna include will be really representative of the corridors where they intersect with traffic across the state.
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00:06:24.000Um, we're also looking at the pine martin, and I know you and I have talked about that in a previous um podcast, but that one is a tribal species.
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00:06:34.240Um and so the tribes have actually been providing us with uh some of that um collision data that they have or data where they know they exist.
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00:06:48.959We did talk about this before, and I remember uh looking into it a little a little bit more because I I I wasn't aware, but how common are pine martin and are they just they're just so small and so easily disguised that we just don't see them much in the wild?
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00:06:58.319I think unless you were um hunting them or trapping them um or really know much about them, I don't I think it'd be hard to find.
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00:07:00.160Um that's just my perspective.
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00:07:08.079They're also kind of isolated in the state where they exist to um northern Michigan and uh the upper peninsula as well.
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00:07:10.560So, you know, I don't think it's something you and I would see.
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00:07:12.480It's a really beautiful animal.
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00:07:14.879Yes, yes, for sure.
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00:07:19.120So talk a little bit about uh where things go from here.
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00:07:25.759Um once you get those layers established and you know, you know, what you're looking at, um, what are the next steps?
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00:07:32.319We will as a group um start to look at some of the maps that HDR is putting together for us.
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00:07:37.519And they are running these through um GIS modeling um programs.
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00:07:43.199And so it kind of generates hot spots and we're we're looking at scale.
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00:07:50.399And um, I don't know, there's a lot of things that go into it that I wasn't thinking about, um, but the maps are really starting to come to life.
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00:07:55.279So then once we add that ecological piece, we'll really start to be able to see those hotspots.
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00:07:57.920And then from that, we'll make some decisions.
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00:08:11.120You know, we have long term, we'll have um HDR propose some different mitigation measures for those locations, and then um we will hold some public meetings before the grant project wraps up.
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00:08:12.959And what will those look like?
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00:08:18.319Um, I assume there'll be a remote or online component to those public meetings.
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00:08:26.160I think we were intending to have one in-person public meeting in each region um with the option to attend virtually as well.
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00:08:26.720Okay.
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00:08:30.959And what would you be looking for there in terms of participation and input?
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00:08:50.879We will be proposing the mitigation measures and locations and then um hopefully having the public look at them and you know, give us their feedback on whether that makes sense or what we're proposing makes sense, um, and kind of go from there with the hopes of integrating some of this into our long-range planning goals.
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00:08:54.879Stick around, there's more to come right after this short message.
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00:08:59.759In Michigan, safety comes first on the roads to combat distracted driving.
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00:09:02.080Michigan passed the hands-free law.
00:09:02.399 -->
00:09:10.159The law makes holding or manually using a cell phone or other mobile electronic device while operating a vehicle a primary offense.
00:09:10.320 -->
00:09:13.919This means an officer can stop and ticket you for violating the law.
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00:09:27.919This can include, but not limited to, sending or receiving a call, sending, receiving, or reading a text or email, accessing, reading, or posting to social media sites, or entering locations into the phone GPS.
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00:09:34.879With this law in place, drivers are encouraged to stay focused, keeping their hands on the wheel and their attention on the road.
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00:09:38.159Drive smart, drive safe, drive hands-free.
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00:09:43.200Michigan's hands-free law: making the road safer for everyone.
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00:09:57.519So I guess if you you know blue sky this for yourself and the work that you do and the people you work with who have a real passion for this, um, what's the best case scenario a couple of years from now?
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00:09:59.200Well, it's it's exciting.
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00:10:03.440Hopefully, we have um a risk-based analysis done.
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00:10:13.519And my hope is not just identifying the hot spots, but looking at a corridor approach and what risk we give the corridor itself.
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00:10:21.039So you may have a big hotspot there, but you but think about the bigger picture of what does that look like across the whole corridor.
00:10:21.600 -->
00:10:28.159And in addition to that, our other end product from this is going to be a GIS-based planning tool.
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00:10:42.960And so our hope is that this is a living GIS document, you know, a GIS map where we're constantly inputting new, um, maybe even new species information and updating crash information and just keeping it as a living document.
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00:10:48.080So this isn't just a snapshot in time, but something we just become accustomed to using.
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00:11:06.240So we've talked before, and I think even since we've last talked, some other states have come online and I've noticed that some states, their legislators are actually passing laws that uh require the departments to be more aggressive about studying this and including crossings and in new projects.
00:11:06.399 -->
00:11:09.919Um, is there anybody that you look at as a as a particular model?
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00:11:23.519I know a lot of the Western states for obvious reasons because of the big animals in the mountains of Colorado or Utah or California, but I I know Virginia is even one of those states that's been pretty aggressive about this.
00:11:23.679 -->
00:11:25.679But uh, what have what have you picked up on?
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00:11:31.600Yes, um, I've actually formed some partnerships with some other other DOTs a little closer to us.
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00:11:34.639Um, obviously I've been working with Missouri a lot.
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00:11:50.240Um, they're they're ahead of us, so not so far ahead that they have dedicated funding or are really putting in infrastructure, um, but that they've gone through the planning process, they've identified their hotspots, and now they're figuring out how to integrate that into their planning.
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00:11:59.600But as far as other states closer to us with um actual dedicated funding, I'm not I'm not working with anyone, I guess that's that far advanced.
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00:12:01.600But I know other DOTs are working towards it.
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00:12:19.840Yeah, we talked about Missouri before, and I thought that was really interesting that they've recognized this as so important and they have a lot of white-tailed deer just like Michigan, and they have a very diverse topography, um, even more so than Michigan, and that they have some, you know, real mountains in the southern part of the state.
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00:12:23.200So what do you think you've learned so far just talking to them?
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00:12:28.399I am thankful they're ahead of us because I'm learning um, you know, just mistakes to not repeat.
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00:12:29.519So that's helpful.
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00:12:42.159Um but I but I guess I've learned most is that it's hard to take that next step and to change mindsets and to starting to integrate what we get out of this study into the long-range planning or project planning.
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00:12:48.879And so I'm I'm eager to see what they learn from this, like how they end up phasing it in.
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00:12:54.000Um so, but I I talk with them often, so I'm sure I will find out.
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00:13:05.600We've also been sharing mitigation-related documents um as well, because Michigan's going to be constructing that um exclusionary fencing on I-69 as one of the TAP grant projects.
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00:13:08.720And so we've been sharing some details related to projects.
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00:13:22.879I think that we we talked about this, and you can't overstate the value of not having to like start from scratch on these things that you have peers that you can talk to and you can reach out and find out what's working and what's not working.
00:13:23.120 -->
00:13:32.320Um, you're talking about, I think, having a conference here in Michigan of people to talk about this sometime next year.
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00:13:34.720So I'm I'm guessing that you're very hopeful.
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00:13:36.960You'll have some interesting things to report by then.
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00:13:41.840Yes, I I am hopeful, and I'm also hopeful I'll learn a lot at that conference.
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00:13:52.159Um, we are hoping that um we will have five DOTs give updates um regarding this topic and where they are, and you know, they're at various stages.
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00:13:58.879Um more to come on that, but we're we're hopeful that we'll have great updates for everybody and we'll learn a lot from each other.
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00:14:03.120Yeah, I I think that it's it's actually fun to talk about these things.
00:14:03.279 -->
00:14:14.240And um, I know I still get the jokes and the skepticism from people that say, yeah, you you know, you're not gonna teach the deer or the other animals where to cross.
00:14:14.559 -->
00:14:29.679But what we found is that the other states and western provinces of Canada that have done this actually did have success, that that the animals do figure out after a while that um there's a safer place to cross if I just walk another, you know, a couple hundred yards.
00:14:29.840 -->
00:14:35.440You know, that's intuitive for the people that that work in this, but I think a lot of people don't realize that and how effective it can be.
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00:14:37.440Yes, that is that is exactly right.
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00:14:51.840And I've been talking, I have a great partner um in Canada, um, and he is actually him, or it's probably not gonna be him because he's retiring, but someone from his office is likely to present at that conference um that you referenced.
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00:15:03.360Um, but I've been learning a lot from him, and they have measurable changes with with everything that they've put in, and they've had it in for so long that it's easy for them to measure the success at this point.
00:15:03.759 -->
00:15:07.840Is that somebody with uh Y2Y in Alberta or another agency?
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00:15:09.679It is Parks Canada.
00:15:10.159 -->
00:15:10.480Okay.
00:15:10.960 -->
00:15:11.200Good.
00:15:11.759 -->
00:15:12.480Good, interesting.
00:15:12.879 -->
00:15:18.559Well, let's talk a little bit more about some other things related to this that also your your work gets into.
00:15:18.639 -->
00:15:29.279And um, how are we doing with you know, pollinators and and plantings that uh that encourage pollinators and and help them in their in their life's work?
00:15:29.679 -->
00:15:31.039Um we are doing great.
00:15:31.120 -->
00:15:36.240Um, in Bay Region, uh we planted everything that we planted last year.
00:15:36.399 -->
00:15:38.320Um everything looks pretty good overall.
00:15:38.480 -->
00:15:40.960We didn't have, you know, it's always seasonal.
00:15:41.120 -->
00:15:48.159We we truly are like the farmers, just praying for the rain and praying for the seasonal conditions um to get things to grow.
00:15:48.320 -->
00:15:51.600Um but this year everything turned out pretty good overall.
00:15:51.840 -->
00:15:54.639Um so thankfully we've had the rainfall.
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00:15:57.440So I I think the pollinator plantings look beautiful.
00:15:57.519 -->
00:16:00.879I've gotten some pretty nice feedback from the public.
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00:16:03.440Um, and we've expanded some of them.
00:16:03.759 -->
00:16:04.720Oh, that's great.
00:16:04.960 -->
00:16:05.279Yeah.
00:16:05.440 -->
00:16:08.080And and you're hearing uh from some of the other regions.
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00:16:15.840I think uh I think both Grand and Southwest have and maybe university have been doing some things too with um some of those those plantings.
00:16:16.240 -->
00:16:24.480Yes, I wasn't a part of any of like the team meetings this spring with the other regions, but I'm I'm pretty certain they're marching on as they were last year.
00:16:24.639 -->
00:16:33.120Um maybe, you know, every year we move things around a little bit and it's based on soil conditions and if we had issues at the site or if it's too wet for the year to plant.
00:16:33.279 -->
00:16:38.879Um, but it's likely if we did like abandon a plot that we probably replanted it somewhere else.
00:16:39.120 -->
00:16:41.679So sunflowers are the probably the most visible.
00:16:41.759 -->
00:16:43.840Those are the things people see and talk about the most.
00:16:43.919 -->
00:16:46.399But uh, but what else would you include in that category?
00:16:46.720 -->
00:16:48.960We did um wildflower plantings.
00:16:49.200 -->
00:16:51.919We did, I noticed it's actually in the median.
00:16:52.240 -->
00:16:59.840Um I was traveling back from up north um on Monday, and I noticed that the we we use a mix called the DOT Showstopper.
00:17:00.080 -->
00:17:02.720It's got a bunch of native flowers in it.
00:17:02.879 -->
00:17:06.559And I noticed we did a big median planting up north and north region.
00:17:06.799 -->
00:17:12.160Um, and then we have done it in Bay Region, mostly at our at the port here on Welcome Center.
00:17:12.319 -->
00:17:16.640We've tried it in some other areas, but it it's just it's struggled a little bit.
00:17:16.720 -->
00:17:18.880Um, I think it was based on soil conditions.
00:17:19.119 -->
00:17:25.920Yeah, but that's interesting because that harkens back to the original program that was uh inspired by Lady Bert Johnson, right?
00:17:26.000 -->
00:17:27.599And highway beautification.
00:17:28.000 -->
00:17:29.519Yes, yes, it does.
00:17:29.680 -->
00:17:31.440It's it's really improving the roadside.
00:17:31.519 -->
00:17:36.480And actually up north it's such a vast median that I can see where it's a great benefit.
00:17:36.880 -->
00:17:37.599Oh, yeah, right.
00:17:37.680 -->
00:17:40.880There's a lot of stretches that have very, very wide medians.
00:17:41.279 -->
00:17:42.079Yes, yes.
00:17:42.400 -->
00:17:43.119Well, what else?
00:17:43.200 -->
00:17:46.799Is there anything else that you want to add, Amanda, to uh to what's going on?
00:17:46.880 -->
00:17:49.599You're always so enthusiastic about your work.
00:17:49.680 -->
00:17:52.079It's it's fun to talk to you and and hear from you.
00:17:52.240 -->
00:17:53.920But uh, what else would you want to say?
00:17:54.240 -->
00:17:58.640I think um, I guess the last part would be an update to our TAP projects.
00:17:58.799 -->
00:18:03.200So we have that project on US 127 in Grashek County for the turtle fencing.
00:18:03.440 -->
00:18:05.039That turned out really, really well.
00:18:05.200 -->
00:18:09.920We we didn't do it yet, but we met our project letting date, so that's exciting.
00:18:10.079 -->
00:18:13.039Um, and it'll be constructed next year in the spring.
00:18:13.119 -->
00:18:21.039And we're partnering, obviously, and that's not the um we didn't receive the grant, that's DNR's grant, and they provided the grant match as well.
00:18:21.200 -->
00:18:22.960But that has been very successful.
00:18:23.119 -->
00:18:30.240We found a um by America approved fencing material because that was nearly a showstopper at one point.
00:18:30.880 -->
00:18:32.079Talk a little bit more about that.
00:18:32.160 -->
00:18:35.839What was the Buy America provision that that caused delays?
00:18:36.160 -->
00:18:44.079We were having a difficult time finding a product that met our needs that was actually manufactured in the United States.
00:18:44.240 -->
00:18:52.480And so the original path we were going down was a product that wasn't manufactured here, and so we would not have been able to get approval to use it.
00:18:52.799 -->
00:18:53.359Gotcha.
00:18:53.519 -->
00:18:53.839Okay.
00:18:54.079 -->
00:18:54.160Yeah.
00:18:54.559 -->
00:18:57.519So yeah, so I'm sorry, go ahead and finish that thought.
00:18:57.839 -->
00:18:58.960Oh no, that's okay.
00:18:59.119 -->
00:19:00.720Um, so that's really exciting.
00:19:00.880 -->
00:19:03.279That will start um in spring of next year.
00:19:03.359 -->
00:19:08.799And then we have the wildlife fencing project um near K-Pac Road on I-69 in St.
00:19:08.960 -->
00:19:10.000Clair County.
00:19:10.160 -->
00:19:12.000That also met the letting date.
00:19:12.079 -->
00:19:15.519Um, and so that will start next year in the spring as well.
00:19:15.680 -->
00:19:19.279And so that's like three miles of exclusionary fencing.
00:19:19.359 -->
00:19:24.000Um, it's gonna include jump outs and some electrified mats at the fence ends.
00:19:24.319 -->
00:19:29.920And you mentioned that um this this is part of TAP awards, and that's transportation alternative program.
00:19:30.240 -->
00:19:32.960So talk about how that relates in this context.
00:19:33.440 -->
00:19:37.119Yes, um, that program is pretty amazing.
00:19:37.200 -->
00:19:39.599It's got all different categories that compete.
00:19:39.759 -->
00:19:43.759So that includes um improvements for pedestrians as well.
00:19:44.000 -->
00:19:48.000And so this has historically not been funded.
00:19:48.160 -->
00:19:50.960And so these two projects are pilot projects.
00:19:51.119 -->
00:19:55.359So we're really just going through and documenting how things have worked.
00:19:55.440 -->
00:20:00.640Um, if these do get screened in the future, what does that screening criteria look like?
00:20:00.720 -->
00:20:01.920You know, a variety of things.
00:20:02.000 -->
00:20:08.640So we're learning through this process, but it would be really amazing if long term it was a funding source for this type of work.
00:20:08.880 -->
00:20:10.000Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:10.319 -->
00:20:11.680Well, thanks, Amanda.
00:20:11.839 -->
00:20:13.200I uh appreciate what you're doing.
00:20:13.279 -->
00:20:14.559I always appreciate these updates.
00:20:14.640 -->
00:20:22.799It'll be really interesting to watch where this goes over the next two, three, four years, I guess, and and see where we're at and and what a difference we make.
00:20:22.880 -->
00:20:38.240I mean, we know from other states and the stats that are pretty well documented now that these these can make a real difference and and prevent crashes and not just save the lives of the animals, but save the lives of human beings too.
00:20:38.559 -->
00:20:40.640Yes, yes, that's correct.
00:20:40.960 -->
00:20:41.519Well, thanks.
00:20:41.680 -->
00:20:42.720We'll talk again soon.
00:20:43.039 -->
00:20:44.000All right, thank you, Jeff.
00:20:44.240 -->
00:20:47.920I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Machine Transportation.
00:20:48.079 -->
00:20:52.160You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzz Rout.
00:20:52.400 -->
00:21:08.319I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Devler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, and Jackie Salinas, who hosts the podcast on various platforms, and transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.
