WEBVTT
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00:00:02.120the cold opens are gonna be like things that
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00:00:06.019we're watching right i i mean the last two haven't
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00:00:08.619been we can do whatever we can do whatever i
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00:00:12.279feel i want to i because i want to hear the because
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00:00:14.500i don't think we should get into it later that
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00:00:17.480much but i want to hear so there's a fucking
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00:00:23.839ice comic um uh let's get this one out of the
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00:00:46.179way Hello, everyone. Welcome to Tales from the
00:00:46.179 -->
00:00:49.439Gutter. I'm Ethan. I read all things comics.
00:00:49.719 -->
00:00:53.340My name is Isaac. I read only comics. We are
00:00:53.340 -->
00:00:57.420two completely normal guys who like to read weird
00:00:57.420 -->
00:01:00.359comics and talk about the weirder people that
00:01:00.359 -->
00:01:08.099make them close enough. I wrote a forgive you
00:01:08.099 -->
00:01:11.859note for him. Here's what I wrote about. his
00:01:11.859 -->
00:01:14.739short -lived well not even short -lived what
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00:01:19.180year was this his first was in 2014 oh no he
00:01:19.180 -->
00:01:24.159does three so recent that's still so recent his
00:01:24.159 -->
00:01:28.480first is in 2013 his next is 2014 and he does
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00:01:34.299that uh with hilliard his last is in 2015 if
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00:01:36.459you're gonna get out of the game that's the year
00:01:36.459 -->
00:01:39.819to stop doing it I guess, but I don't know if
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00:01:42.420he should be in the game to begin with. That
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00:01:45.760was never a good idea. What is the premise? All
00:01:45.760 -->
00:01:48.640right, here it is. ICE is as dumb as you think
00:01:48.640 -->
00:01:51.319it is. A group of racially diverse meatheads
00:01:51.319 -->
00:01:55.079go around and shoot super criminals with only
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00:01:57.120the most tangential connections to immigration
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00:01:59.760enforcement. Doug doesn't seem like he really
00:01:59.760 -->
00:02:02.120wants to go there, and that is a major blessing
00:02:02.120 -->
00:02:04.659considering how cringe it is whenever he does.
00:02:05.540 -->
00:02:09.259Okay. The major character? I think maybe might
00:02:09.259 -->
00:02:14.259remind you of a certain actor, maybe? That doesn't
00:02:14.259 -->
00:02:16.500look like anybody to you? It looks kind of like
00:02:16.500 -->
00:02:19.159The Rock with that hairline. It's the, yeah,
00:02:19.319 -->
00:02:21.740yeah, yeah. No, especially because it's like,
00:02:21.800 -->
00:02:24.039it's 2013. So that would have been, Rock still
00:02:24.039 -->
00:02:26.979had hair in 2013, right? No, he has not had hair
00:02:26.979 -->
00:02:30.340for like 20 years at this point. But no, I see
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00:02:33.219it, I see it. And we'll talk about this later,
00:02:33.280 -->
00:02:36.050but 12 Gauge does a lot of like... tie -in stuff
00:02:36.050 -->
00:02:37.930i feel like they had this ready for him and then
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00:02:41.030they just uh he just didn't he didn't bite all
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00:02:43.389right i am not going to hold this series against
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00:02:47.129him for a few reason one the promos are read
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00:02:50.710the most controversial comic of the year so i
00:02:50.710 -->
00:02:55.960think it was kind of like um um like controversy
00:02:55.960 -->
00:02:58.659bait like maybe he wasn't even that into it it
00:02:58.659 -->
00:03:00.900was just like oh can you believe we're writing
00:03:00.900 -->
00:03:03.719about ice you're just fucking rage baiting yes
00:03:03.719 -->
00:03:06.939number two doug gets in and out of writing about
00:03:06.939 -->
00:03:09.620race in his comics never very well could have
00:03:09.620 -->
00:03:12.099been the influence of 12 gauge some of his co
00:03:12.099 -->
00:03:16.000-authors but his shift to serial killers and
00:03:16.000 -->
00:03:19.419perverts much more solid territory for him like
00:03:19.419 -->
00:03:23.180i said before his last ice comic was 2015 And
00:03:23.180 -->
00:03:25.400his website doesn't mention the title at all.
00:03:25.500 -->
00:03:27.439So I think he has like an appropriate amount
00:03:27.439 -->
00:03:32.039of shame about it. That's Joe. Snow Hill, holy
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00:03:34.939terror. That's for sure. Let me show you the
00:03:34.939 -->
00:03:39.000one bit of gold in this series. This is issue
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00:03:42.379one. You see this? What is the big tough guy
00:03:42.379 -->
00:03:44.900scared of an itty bitty knife? They're all in
00:03:44.900 -->
00:03:47.039the back before an ice raid and they're like
00:03:47.039 -->
00:03:48.900holding up a knife to him. He's like, oh, he's
00:03:48.900 -->
00:03:52.080scared of it. His partner's over there. It's
00:03:52.080 -->
00:03:54.879not that. It's something else. His partner gets
00:03:54.879 -->
00:03:56.900shot. He's bleeding out on the ground. He's like,
00:03:56.919 -->
00:03:59.159you have to finally tell me the story about the
00:03:59.159 -->
00:04:02.500knife. We flash back to him. I think he's in
00:04:02.500 -->
00:04:05.919Hawaii. I think he was raised in Hawaii. He's
00:04:05.919 -->
00:04:07.960showing his brother like a chicken. You said
00:04:07.960 -->
00:04:10.639I could cut it up. You're too little. Give it
00:04:10.639 -->
00:04:13.379here. You promised. You're such a little baby.
00:04:13.719 -->
00:04:17.160Go inside with mom. Fine. He throws the chicken.
00:04:17.819 -->
00:04:21.019His brother throws the knife at him, cuts his
00:04:21.019 -->
00:04:25.779face up. I hate you, Kai. And he throws the knife
00:04:25.779 -->
00:04:30.720back into his chest. Oh, wow. Very peacemaker
00:04:30.720 -->
00:04:33.360-ish. Literally, dude. That's his origin story.
00:04:33.459 -->
00:04:35.180That's why he doesn't fuck with knives. So he
00:04:35.180 -->
00:04:40.879tells his partner this story. And then... His
00:04:40.879 -->
00:04:42.860partner's, like, lying on the ground, and he's
00:04:42.860 -->
00:04:45.019like, you gotta forgive yourself. And then he
00:04:45.019 -->
00:04:47.399just, he finally takes the Bowie knife and just,
00:04:47.399 -->
00:04:50.480like, goes out and kills all the super criminals.
00:04:51.240 -->
00:04:54.060Very stupid, but I do love that origin. Jesus.
00:04:54.279 -->
00:04:58.899Oh, dude, is every super criminal, like, a different
00:04:58.899 -->
00:05:05.420race? Is that what they do? Uh, yeah. yeah yeah
00:05:05.420 -->
00:05:08.180jesus christ by the time we get to the third
00:05:08.180 -->
00:05:11.279one they're like a super terrorist cell from
00:05:11.279 -->
00:05:15.959the czech republic that like it doesn't even
00:05:15.959 -->
00:05:18.100have to do with ice like they just like they
00:05:18.100 -->
00:05:20.560like kill one of their friends like he he doesn't
00:05:20.560 -->
00:05:22.980he just doesn't really care about the ice angle
00:05:22.980 -->
00:05:26.439um he he writes with it sometimes and it's it's
00:05:26.439 -->
00:05:30.110it's very uh it's very cringe so There, we got
00:05:30.110 -->
00:05:32.810it out of the way. Honestly, very accurately
00:05:32.810 -->
00:05:35.550that the least redeemable characters are the
00:05:35.550 -->
00:05:40.589ones in ice. He does write a few scenes of the
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00:05:43.990ice ages, the ice agents being discriminated
00:05:43.990 -->
00:05:47.250against. I did not put those up. Those are just,
00:05:47.329 -->
00:05:51.110those are what you think they are. Jesus Christ.
00:05:52.149 -->
00:05:58.100We have a special treat today. a three -parter
00:05:58.100 -->
00:06:02.060our first uh what would you call this a uh a
00:06:02.060 -->
00:06:04.120trilogy but then they have some spin -offs so
00:06:04.120 -->
00:06:09.040our first uh combined universe this is the materials
00:06:09.040 -->
00:06:14.560trilogy by doug wagner and daniel hilliard uh
00:06:14.560 -->
00:06:21.279starting in 2017 with plastic um then we have
00:06:21.279 -->
00:06:27.810vinyl in 2021 and plush in 2022 and all of these
00:06:27.810 -->
00:06:32.470comics i believe are in the same universe yeah
00:06:32.470 -->
00:06:34.790yeah there's there's tie -ins and they all deal
00:06:34.790 -->
00:06:39.269with serial killers they're all five to six issue
00:06:39.269 -->
00:06:44.009miniseries all produced by 12 gauge comics and
00:06:44.009 -->
00:06:48.389printed and distributed by image in kind of like
00:06:48.389 -->
00:06:51.800a link to deal i guess to set up this episode
00:06:51.800 -->
00:06:55.980i do want to talk a little bit about modern comics
00:06:55.980 -->
00:07:00.019in like the late 2010s uh honestly for me this
00:07:00.019 -->
00:07:03.850is kind of this is very peak time like we get
00:07:03.850 -->
00:07:07.410like fucking secret wars in the big two i mean
00:07:07.410 -->
00:07:10.290there are some duds and stuff but there there's
00:07:10.290 -->
00:07:12.689some good stuff coming out of the big two and
00:07:12.689 -->
00:07:15.750indie comics especially image are going super
00:07:15.750 -->
00:07:20.509strong we see a lot to these short mini series
00:07:20.509 -->
00:07:23.750usually like five to six issues perfect for trade
00:07:23.750 -->
00:07:27.170paperback so the thing with the whole trade paperback
00:07:27.170 -->
00:07:30.810publication type and writing for the trade this
00:07:30.810 -->
00:07:33.110was like a trend that started a lot in like the
00:07:33.110 -->
00:07:37.110early 2000s so the term trade paperback actually
00:07:37.110 -->
00:07:41.209came from traditional novel publishing where
00:07:41.209 -->
00:07:45.220they would take paperback books to trade shows
00:07:45.220 -->
00:07:47.839and they would sell the hardcovers to like the
00:07:47.839 -->
00:07:50.399bookstores so like before like paperbacks were
00:07:50.399 -->
00:07:54.040an actual thing that like people bought and the
00:07:54.040 -->
00:07:56.500comic industry kind of adopted this later on
00:07:56.500 -->
00:07:59.759with things like original graphic novels i'm
00:07:59.759 -->
00:08:04.759thinking god loves man kills right and then collecting
00:08:04.759 -->
00:08:09.639certain story arcs like inferno again like x
00:08:09.639 -->
00:08:12.600-men stuff later on they would go on to just
00:08:12.600 -->
00:08:15.000collect certain volumes of like long -running
00:08:15.000 -->
00:08:19.560titles right and then once you get into the 2000s
00:08:19.560 -->
00:08:23.060and the 2010s you have a a trend in the writing
00:08:23.060 -->
00:08:26.360whether it's decompression or compression in
00:08:26.360 -->
00:08:29.480terms of storylines writers are kind of encouraged
00:08:29.480 -->
00:08:34.139to start and end their stories at least a certain
00:08:34.139 -->
00:08:37.860arc within five to six issues this kind of gives
00:08:37.860 -->
00:08:40.960readers a good jumping on point um especially
00:08:40.960 -->
00:08:44.000if you have shit like fucking spider -man where
00:08:44.000 -->
00:08:47.440there's like 700 issues or something like that
00:08:47.440 -->
00:08:51.779i think right now we're at like 670 or something
00:08:51.779 -->
00:08:56.529like that in spider -man It also gives each arc
00:08:56.529 -->
00:08:59.070and each volume more of like a TV season kind
00:08:59.070 -->
00:09:02.710of feel. Storytelling wise, instead of long running
00:09:02.710 -->
00:09:07.129serialized comics, you get more of the TV season
00:09:07.129 -->
00:09:10.450kind of thing where people jump in and out of
00:09:10.450 -->
00:09:13.669books like for creative teams. And then on the
00:09:13.669 -->
00:09:16.909indie side, it was a lot easier for independent
00:09:16.909 -->
00:09:20.090publishers like Image to green light these shorter
00:09:20.090 -->
00:09:25.740series because they're not. committing to a possible
00:09:25.740 -->
00:09:29.360like 150 issue run of something like that it
00:09:29.360 -->
00:09:33.559also gave creators like a way one into the industry
00:09:33.559 -->
00:09:38.340and also like a good outline like it was a good
00:09:38.340 -->
00:09:40.980format for creators to kind of like come in tell
00:09:40.980 -->
00:09:44.879a story fully and get out if they knew like if
00:09:44.879 -->
00:09:46.500it was like five to six issues because they're
00:09:46.500 -->
00:09:48.720not worried about like oh are we gonna get canceled
00:09:48.720 -->
00:09:52.679like issue 15 and then we had like five more
00:09:52.679 -->
00:09:55.000issues that we never got to get to looking at
00:09:55.000 -->
00:09:59.5592017 when plastic first came out we only have
00:09:59.559 -->
00:10:04.620saga monstrous invincible and the walking dead
00:10:04.620 -->
00:10:08.259all like either in the middle or at the very
00:10:08.259 -->
00:10:11.480end of their runs like invincible and oh invincible
00:10:11.480 -->
00:10:16.129and walking dead i think wrap up 2017. Is that
00:10:16.129 -->
00:10:19.769probably Legends too? Or Fables? That's probably
00:10:19.769 -->
00:10:22.629Fables, right? Yeah, Fables. I think Fables ended
00:10:22.629 -->
00:10:24.789a little, yeah, even a little bit earlier than
00:10:24.789 -->
00:10:29.509that. But all of those are Image. And then still
00:10:29.509 -->
00:10:33.889now, the only like ongoing Image books right
00:10:33.889 -->
00:10:38.389now, I think are Saga and Monstrous. It's crazy.
00:10:38.389 -->
00:10:41.250Like 10 years later, almost, which is crazy.
00:10:41.350 -->
00:10:44.379Like you still get a little something. smaller
00:10:44.379 -->
00:10:46.700projects here and there but you see a lot more
00:10:46.700 -->
00:10:50.460of these like short mini series and maxi series
00:10:50.460 -->
00:10:52.620especially even in the big two like i'm looking
00:10:52.620 -->
00:10:55.820at everything that tom king has done basically
00:10:55.820 -->
00:10:59.019everything good that tom king has done is either
00:10:59.019 -->
00:11:01.879a mini series or a maxi series like i got some
00:11:01.879 -->
00:11:04.700love for for his batman run but like all of his
00:11:04.700 -->
00:11:08.279best stuff is mini series and maxi series so
00:11:08.279 -->
00:11:11.899like six issues to 12 issues uh all the big event
00:11:11.899 -->
00:11:15.549stuff miniseries or maxiseries like doomsday
00:11:15.549 -->
00:11:22.029clock and like that so in 2017 you see kind of
00:11:22.029 -->
00:11:25.610like one of the i mean part of the trend of all
00:11:25.610 -->
00:11:28.230of these indie creators pitching these short
00:11:28.230 -->
00:11:30.629mini series and i think that's one of the strengths
00:11:30.629 -->
00:11:33.750of these books is that they stand on their own
00:11:33.750 -->
00:11:36.929individually they tell a complete story but they
00:11:36.929 -->
00:11:39.750can exist in the same world Which is something
00:11:39.750 -->
00:11:43.149that I see with like titles like Hellboy, right?
00:11:43.250 -->
00:11:45.470I've seen it called like the Hellboy model where
00:11:45.470 -->
00:11:49.730it's kind of an anthology more than a continuous
00:11:49.730 -->
00:11:53.789serialized story. And it builds through these
00:11:53.789 -->
00:11:56.570smaller independent stories where they can like
00:11:56.570 -->
00:11:58.950build connections with each other organically
00:11:58.950 -->
00:12:03.009without being beholden to all this lore and fucking
00:12:03.009 -->
00:12:06.159continuity. and i think that's one of the strengths
00:12:06.159 -->
00:12:09.240of like a character like hellboy is that you
00:12:09.240 -->
00:12:12.600can kind of jump in wherever because it's like
00:12:12.600 -->
00:12:15.600oh like just go read plague of frogs like that's
00:12:15.600 -->
00:12:17.259a good one you know what i mean and you could
00:12:17.259 -->
00:12:20.179give that to anybody you know yeah yeah and then
00:12:20.179 -->
00:12:24.019it's just like oh this is a cool world and like
00:12:24.559 -->
00:12:26.919that's is that one even a hellboy story isn't
00:12:26.919 -->
00:12:28.919that just a bbrd story i think that i don't i
00:12:28.919 -->
00:12:31.480don't think he's or the abe sapien one i think
00:12:31.480 -->
00:12:33.539that's it i think no i think he's there i think
00:12:33.539 -->
00:12:35.519he's there that's early enough i think that's
00:12:35.519 -->
00:12:37.879mid i'm not sure yeah but like shit like that
00:12:37.879 -->
00:12:41.120where it's like okay you can just read a singular
00:12:41.120 -->
00:12:45.659thing yeah right and then you could decide whether
00:12:45.659 -->
00:12:48.879or not there's less investment i think which
00:12:48.879 -->
00:12:53.059is like it's the same thing with like tv nowadays
00:12:53.690 -->
00:12:56.470too right it's like you can tap out on a tv show
00:12:56.470 -->
00:12:59.389but it feels like with a movie you have to like
00:12:59.389 -->
00:13:03.889invest yeah yeah you know just to bring it back
00:13:03.889 -->
00:13:06.970to what we're reading today um five to six perfect
00:13:06.970 -->
00:13:09.809for this uh each story there's a central dilemma
00:13:09.809 -->
00:13:14.750that is set up in the first comic and over the
00:13:14.750 -->
00:13:18.149next uh four to five they just solve that central
00:13:18.149 -->
00:13:21.039dilemma with lots of obstacles put in the way.
00:13:21.120 -->
00:13:24.820They don't really meander. They go about it in
00:13:24.820 -->
00:13:27.700very different ways, but all three of them, I
00:13:27.700 -->
00:13:30.259would say, are pretty tight. Central dilemma
00:13:30.259 -->
00:13:32.779and overcoming that, and then you wrap it up.
00:13:32.940 -->
00:13:35.539Yeah, extremely tight. That's one of the things
00:13:35.539 -->
00:13:38.879I will say is like a strength of Wagner's writing.
00:13:39.500 -->
00:13:44.000Very kind of cinematic in the way that the stories
00:13:44.000 -->
00:13:47.399are structured. It's very straightforward. Even
00:13:47.399 -->
00:13:49.779if it's nonlinear, like we'll look at with vinyl
00:13:49.779 -->
00:13:53.139later, but they are very tight. Pretty dense,
00:13:53.159 -->
00:13:56.559too, I would say, with the stuff. It has a good
00:13:56.559 -->
00:13:59.860pace, and it keeps things going, and there's
00:13:59.860 -->
00:14:04.519a lot of fun details that are rewarding on a
00:14:04.519 -->
00:14:07.769reread. So do you want to talk a little bit about
00:14:07.769 -->
00:14:11.470like the background of like Wagner and Hilliard
00:14:11.470 -->
00:14:14.330and like how they started linking up? Let's talk
00:14:14.330 -->
00:14:18.690about 12 Gauge Comics. This is a very surface
00:14:18.690 -->
00:14:23.029level overview. That is how Doug Wagner got his
00:14:23.029 -->
00:14:25.769start. Obviously, every time you're looking up
00:14:25.769 -->
00:14:27.929comic book artist who has been around for a while,
00:14:27.950 -->
00:14:30.450artist or author, they've touched a lot of stuff.
00:14:30.509 -->
00:14:34.159I couldn't find his. supposedly he he has a arrow
00:14:34.159 -->
00:14:37.659like a green arrow it says just arrow though
00:14:37.659 -->
00:14:39.179so i don't know if it's like i don't know if
00:14:39.179 -->
00:14:42.059it's like a tie -in ccw thing oh i don't know
00:14:42.059 -->
00:14:45.240the tie -in comic for the show maybe that'd be
00:14:45.240 -->
00:14:47.720funny that would be very up his alley because
00:14:47.720 -->
00:14:50.440he did i didn't read it but he did do the comic
00:14:50.440 -->
00:14:55.960book for arkham asylum um 12 gauge is kind of
00:14:55.960 -->
00:14:59.620a celebrity it's crime comics right yeah okay
00:14:59.620 -->
00:15:01.820all right let's get into it what did i write
00:15:01.820 -->
00:15:06.240um 12 gauge comics again very surface level 12
00:15:06.240 -->
00:15:09.179gauge studios started in the early 2000s by kevin
00:15:09.179 -->
00:15:11.879gardner quote seeing a hole in the comic book
00:15:11.879 -->
00:15:14.519marketplace for crime and action adventure stories
00:15:14.519 -->
00:15:18.840so their flagship title was 2004's the ride doug
00:15:18.840 -->
00:15:21.759wagner co -wrote that straightforward pulp crime
00:15:21.759 -->
00:15:26.370action thriller hard not to compare to 100 bullets
00:15:26.370 -->
00:15:28.889i think you said the same thing 100 bullets came
00:15:28.889 -->
00:15:32.909out in 1999 that's that's its own thing very
00:15:32.909 -->
00:15:35.210different vibe but it did have that kind of like
00:15:35.210 -->
00:15:42.090hardened criminal hardened cops over violent
00:15:42.090 -->
00:15:45.909very pulp yeah also what what gap in the marketplace
00:15:45.909 -->
00:15:48.809for crime comics i feel like that's like that's
00:15:48.809 -->
00:15:50.950like it's all separate it's like there's a whole
00:15:50.950 -->
00:15:53.629entire like everything that's not a superhero
00:15:53.629 -->
00:15:56.429comic is a crime comic but someone needs to make
00:15:56.429 -->
00:15:59.009detective comics has anyone ever thought of that
00:15:59.009 -->
00:16:03.450i think there just should be more action comics
00:16:03.450 -->
00:16:05.799or something like I don't know. That has kind
00:16:05.799 -->
00:16:08.519of a ring to it. All right. Without having read
00:16:08.519 -->
00:16:11.000much of their work outside of Wagner's titles,
00:16:11.320 -->
00:16:14.639it does seem like a pretty mixed lineup. Maybe
00:16:14.639 -->
00:16:16.320it's what you got to do to keep treading water,
00:16:16.559 -->
00:16:20.600but they are not above Greg Wyke -ism with plenty
00:16:20.600 -->
00:16:23.860of celebrity tie -ins and even stooping as low
00:16:23.860 -->
00:16:25.840as to have one of their comics promoted on Jimmy
00:16:25.840 -->
00:16:31.480Kimmel. If you look at the tab I have for scripts,
00:16:31.759 -->
00:16:35.879I've got... Oh, I see like an RP. Oh, Mick Foley.
00:16:36.480 -->
00:16:40.059Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that fucking crazy? Wait, what?
00:16:40.419 -->
00:16:42.799What is it? Wait, what is it? I didn't read.
00:16:42.860 -->
00:16:44.899I didn't read that one. It's like a car chase
00:16:44.899 -->
00:16:47.480one. I need to look at this for a second. Wait,
00:16:47.679 -->
00:16:50.559Mick Foley is a New York Times bestselling author?
00:16:50.940 -->
00:16:53.419I didn't do any. I didn't do any research into
00:16:53.419 -->
00:16:55.559that at all. I just saw the name and splattered
00:16:55.559 -->
00:16:58.240that photo on there. Pretty crazy. Wow. That's
00:16:58.240 -->
00:17:00.399the only name that could get me distracted from
00:17:00.399 -->
00:17:04.150fucking Rosario Dawson. I know, I know. That
00:17:04.150 -->
00:17:09.509one was weird. Occult Crimes Task Force. Original
00:17:09.509 -->
00:17:12.230comic book, co -created and drawn to the likeness
00:17:12.230 -->
00:17:17.410of actress Rosario Dawson. Interesting. Trace
00:17:17.410 -->
00:17:21.109Adkins is Luke McBain. And then up there you
00:17:21.109 -->
00:17:25.109have this really, I do have to say, poorly drawn
00:17:25.109 -->
00:17:29.109Boondock Saints. comic book. Oh, so they have
00:17:29.109 -->
00:17:31.829some licenses. That's the first one they make,
00:17:31.849 -->
00:17:34.410but they make about four of those. Look in other
00:17:34.410 -->
00:17:38.490works. You can look at the Average Joes. You
00:17:38.490 -->
00:17:42.269see the Average Joes. Do the names Colt Ford,
00:17:42.569 -->
00:17:46.670Lenny Cooper, Sarah Ross, the LACS, the Moonshine
00:17:46.670 -->
00:17:49.730Bandits, Twang and Round. Any of those people
00:17:49.730 -->
00:17:53.579ring any bells? what is this dude those are all
00:17:53.579 -->
00:17:55.519those are very country people these are real
00:17:55.519 -->
00:17:58.480people oh those are all those are all mid -level
00:17:58.480 -->
00:18:04.400like country music stars okay that's why that's
00:18:04.400 -->
00:18:08.220why all of these guys are like just heavy set
00:18:08.220 -->
00:18:13.460white guys with superpowers they're the average
00:18:13.460 -->
00:18:17.799joes and then one fine woman with like the daisy
00:18:17.799 -->
00:18:20.900dukes and cowboy boots and big old boots yeah
00:18:20.900 -->
00:18:23.720by the time they get to the last series she is
00:18:23.720 -->
00:18:32.579the final cover image okay so so wagner and hilliard
00:18:32.579 -->
00:18:38.160link up for one of the one of their like volumes
00:18:38.160 -->
00:18:42.140of the ride right like this is like a whole crime
00:18:42.140 -->
00:18:46.099anthology from what i saw it's either they first
00:18:46.099 -->
00:18:50.359linked up with 12 gauge for an ice comic or for
00:18:50.359 -->
00:18:54.240the regular joe's comic that i just showed you
00:18:54.240 -->
00:18:57.359i think one of those was their first yeah yeah
00:18:57.359 -->
00:19:01.519strong start so they get together yeah they get
00:19:01.519 -->
00:19:05.460together and i guess they pitch this first story
00:19:05.460 -->
00:19:09.420plastic And all of them share a very common thread,
00:19:09.519 -->
00:19:12.359which is they're all about serial killers, right?
00:19:12.559 -->
00:19:16.640Yeah. So, like, 2010s were a very big year for,
00:19:16.700 -->
00:19:19.180like, serial killers and, like, true crime in
00:19:19.180 -->
00:19:21.960general. I feel like, especially leading up to
00:19:21.960 -->
00:19:25.440this, you have a lot more of, like, the psychological
00:19:25.440 -->
00:19:30.900diving into criminals. Like, you're, like, fucking
00:19:30.900 -->
00:19:33.019Criminal Minds. And, like, that shit was huge.
00:19:33.019 -->
00:19:37.210Criminal Minds, yeah. Fucking profilers and things
00:19:37.210 -->
00:19:42.329like that. And then in the 2010s, you get a lot
00:19:42.329 -->
00:19:47.150of true crime podcasts, documentaries. The whole
00:19:47.150 -->
00:19:52.190big Netflix true crime documentary thing is huge.
00:19:52.829 -->
00:19:55.430I think it's one of those things too that's like
00:19:55.430 -->
00:19:59.509bank robbers or spies or politicians. Creatives
00:19:59.509 -->
00:20:02.470always take the opportunity to ask, oh, what
00:20:02.470 -->
00:20:06.019if they were just bad? but for the right reasons
00:20:06.019 -->
00:20:08.799or what if they were like redeemable bad guys
00:20:08.799 -->
00:20:12.220right so like a lot of stories like try to humanize
00:20:12.220 -->
00:20:14.200the serial killers and it becomes like a trope
00:20:14.200 -->
00:20:18.140with like stuff like dexter and like hannibal
00:20:18.140 -->
00:20:22.440right it's like it's kind of like vampires in
00:20:22.440 -->
00:20:25.599like the early 2000s or like the 90s right so
00:20:25.599 -->
00:20:29.589they become like trendy and like sexy and like
00:20:29.589 -->
00:20:32.130interesting in that kind of way we'll talk about
00:20:32.130 -->
00:20:34.549this later but i think i think the arc of like
00:20:34.549 -->
00:20:37.569what we did with serial killer shows is kind
00:20:37.569 -->
00:20:40.910of similar to what the the writers do over the
00:20:40.910 -->
00:20:43.390course of the trilogy where it starts out like
00:20:43.390 -->
00:20:46.150something like dexter is like kind of pulling
00:20:46.150 -->
00:20:49.250teeth to be like he only kills serial killers
00:20:49.250 -->
00:20:52.390he's got these bad influences or impulses they're
00:20:52.390 -->
00:20:55.170under control but then like when you get to mid
00:20:55.170 -->
00:21:01.579to late 2010s Bates Motel Hannibal and then all
00:21:01.579 -->
00:21:03.599the way I feel like the biggest example is you
00:21:03.599 -->
00:21:07.339you know it's like they're not we just give up
00:21:07.339 -->
00:21:09.259like we don't give a fuck anymore like you either
00:21:09.259 -->
00:21:11.579like them or don't like them they're but they're
00:21:11.579 -->
00:21:14.299not they're not morally conflicted you know those
00:21:14.299 -->
00:21:16.880are three very different serial killers none
00:21:16.880 -->
00:21:19.440of them meant to be redeemable yeah maybe baits
00:21:19.440 -->
00:21:21.900motel i haven't seen it and i i just know how
00:21:21.900 -->
00:21:24.859he ends up i think you see the trend too like
00:21:24.859 -->
00:21:27.220with comics like it's no different right like
00:21:27.220 -->
00:21:31.279before like going back back you have like silver
00:21:31.279 -->
00:21:36.880age bronze age like stuff where like everybody's
00:21:36.880 -->
00:21:40.559like batman doesn't kill all of the villains
00:21:40.559 -->
00:21:44.940are kind of like theatrical like funny like interesting
00:21:44.940 -->
00:21:48.059like they have gimmicks and then they get traded
00:21:48.059 -->
00:21:52.220for like a grittier like grimier like real life
00:21:52.220 -->
00:21:56.039villain inspirations right like yeah like yeah
00:21:56.039 -->
00:22:01.700cletus cassidy and fucking victor zaz and you
00:22:01.700 -->
00:22:04.019even see them start to explore it in like comics
00:22:04.019 -->
00:22:06.400like like straight toasters we mentioned last
00:22:06.400 -->
00:22:11.539episode and then like fucking that one guy's
00:22:12.319 -->
00:22:16.420the dollhouse for sandman and i think it it ends
00:22:16.420 -->
00:22:19.480up being the the batman the newest batman right
00:22:19.480 -->
00:22:21.380that i mean that's just like straight up like
00:22:21.380 -->
00:22:23.960the zodiac killer is the riddler yeah it's like
00:22:23.960 -->
00:22:26.420it's just the two things like completely meshed
00:22:26.420 -->
00:22:28.299on top of each other exactly and i think now
00:22:28.299 -->
00:22:30.960too like pop culturally especially in america
00:22:30.960 -->
00:22:35.140the whole serial killer thing is so in it's like
00:22:35.140 -->
00:22:38.660part of like american myth now you know like
00:22:38.660 -->
00:22:42.440i mean as a somebody from california like everybody
00:22:42.440 -->
00:22:46.700in my mom has a story about fucking richard ramirez
00:22:46.700 -->
00:22:50.200like all my homies talk about like their mom
00:22:50.200 -->
00:22:52.960being like oh yeah i swear to god i seen richard
00:22:52.960 -->
00:22:56.140ramirez like he came to my window one night and
00:22:56.140 -->
00:22:58.579he typed me like type shit you know what i mean
00:22:58.579 -->
00:23:02.039like it's like Because it's so, like, it's so
00:23:02.039 -->
00:23:05.779part of everything. They're the new fucking Paul
00:23:05.779 -->
00:23:08.200Bunyan. You know what I mean? Like, type shit.
00:23:08.259 -->
00:23:11.720That's so funny. John Henry Irons of a generation
00:23:11.720 -->
00:23:16.160is Richard Ramirez and Ted Bundy, right? The
00:23:16.160 -->
00:23:18.519one we deserve, for sure. The whole other side
00:23:18.519 -->
00:23:20.880of it, right, too? Like, Hannibal and, like,
00:23:20.880 -->
00:23:23.079you and shit like that, where it's like, oh,
00:23:23.220 -->
00:23:26.440and, like, the serial killer, like, fangirls
00:23:26.440 -->
00:23:28.859and, like, fanboys that are, like... Yeah, yeah,
00:23:29.000 -->
00:23:32.440yeah. And we see a little bit of it, too, in
00:23:32.440 -->
00:23:36.240this later in vinyl. It gets a little more meta.
00:23:36.680 -->
00:23:40.220But, yeah, with this first one, with Plastic
00:23:40.220 -->
00:23:45.8592017, we have Edwin. I do not understand how
00:23:45.859 -->
00:23:49.740to pronounce his name. Are we getting into it?
00:23:49.799 -->
00:23:51.660We're just going to start the first one now?
00:23:51.920 -->
00:23:54.500Yeah. Okay, so let's get into it. Let's get into
00:23:54.500 -->
00:23:57.400Plastic. I think we should, yeah. Plastic 2017,
00:23:58.019 -->
00:24:03.579written. by doug wagner drawn by dan hilliard
00:24:03.579 -->
00:24:10.779uh colors in this one by laura martin and lettered
00:24:10.779 -->
00:24:15.640by ed duksher more more so than i feel like a
00:24:15.640 -->
00:24:18.099lot of trilogies we absolutely do need to talk
00:24:18.099 -->
00:24:21.940about the color for each comic yeah we talked
00:24:21.940 -->
00:24:24.779about this a little bit before but it is the
00:24:24.779 -->
00:24:27.559main difference three that stay consistent through
00:24:27.559 -->
00:24:29.640this whole thing are wagner hilliard and their
00:24:29.640 -->
00:24:32.980letterer dukeshire who i want to shout out because
00:24:32.980 -->
00:24:35.980like he does some the sound effects in this entire
00:24:35.980 -->
00:24:40.559trilogy are so good like i can hear it you know
00:24:40.559 -->
00:24:44.970and nothing exemplifies that more than like the
00:24:44.970 -->
00:24:50.589opening of this first comic where the very first
00:24:50.589 -->
00:24:57.970panel is in uh fucking oh my god squeak squeak
00:24:57.970 -->
00:25:03.609squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak it's
00:25:03.609 -->
00:25:09.569so good just uh sounds coming out of a i'm assuming
00:25:09.569 -->
00:25:14.710bumping car where we get the squiggly line balloons
00:25:14.710 -->
00:25:22.089and we open up we see a hand press against the
00:25:22.089 -->
00:25:26.970window of the car with like a big long squeak
00:25:26.970 -->
00:25:38.130and out comes out uh edward edwin right so do
00:25:38.130 -->
00:25:41.380you want to give us like the main overview what
00:25:41.380 -->
00:25:44.240is what is like the blurb of this series what
00:25:44.240 -->
00:25:49.079is the elevator pitch the the blurb is um we
00:25:49.079 -->
00:25:53.460have a easy to say retired serial killer that's
00:25:53.460 -->
00:25:57.160edwin um he is in retirement he's learned to
00:25:57.160 -->
00:26:00.859tamp down those urges um kind of in the vein
00:26:00.859 -->
00:26:04.230of dexter um Because he was saved by love. There
00:26:04.230 -->
00:26:06.710was a woman he met online who has just absolutely
00:26:06.710 -->
00:26:08.430helped him turn his life around. He doesn't have
00:26:08.430 -->
00:26:12.789to do those things anymore. Used in a lot of
00:26:12.789 -->
00:26:15.109the promotional material and also used just for
00:26:15.109 -->
00:26:19.609a lot of good bits, but also just to add another
00:26:19.609 -->
00:26:22.230layer of weirdness to this comic book is the
00:26:22.230 -->
00:26:26.289fact that the woman who saved him is a blow -up
00:26:26.289 -->
00:26:29.650sex doll named Virginia. So that first sex scene
00:26:29.650 -->
00:26:34.490we see was between him and his much beloved sex
00:26:34.490 -->
00:26:39.970doll. In all of the comics, there is this intermingling
00:26:39.970 -->
00:26:45.049of sex and violence and passion and urges used
00:26:45.049 -->
00:26:47.430in a lot of different combinations. And this
00:26:47.430 -->
00:26:49.849one, just from the very beginning, puts it all
00:26:49.849 -->
00:26:53.390out on the table just with that setup. She's
00:26:53.390 -->
00:26:56.369going to get kidnapped within the first comic.
00:26:56.450 -->
00:27:00.430And what we were saying before about five to
00:27:00.430 -->
00:27:03.619six issues, You have your initial problem and
00:27:03.619 -->
00:27:07.559a protagonist that needs to solve it. He is captured.
00:27:07.839 -->
00:27:11.539Virginia is taken prisoner. And he is asked to
00:27:11.539 -->
00:27:15.359resume his serial killing ways for a mob boss.
00:27:15.660 -->
00:27:20.980And that is the main conflict of plastic. They
00:27:20.980 -->
00:27:24.019don't hide, especially in the promotion material
00:27:24.019 -->
00:27:26.380and in the covers and stuff like that, they don't
00:27:26.380 -->
00:27:29.480hide that Virginia is a sex doll. But within
00:27:29.480 -->
00:27:34.150the comic, like you already know that it is but
00:27:34.150 -->
00:27:36.450they kind of hide it from you for a little bit
00:27:36.450 -->
00:27:39.730which is kind of fun yeah and it also it gives
00:27:39.730 -->
00:27:43.869you a big reveal and it gives time you you get
00:27:43.869 -->
00:27:46.730to see like edwin in his element a little bit
00:27:46.730 -->
00:27:49.390in these like oh in this first issue for a while
00:27:50.200 -->
00:27:53.980um you see a lot of the little things his little
00:27:53.980 -->
00:27:56.680because it's not just the sex doll thing the
00:27:56.680 -->
00:27:58.960that's like separate that's like he's got a lot
00:27:58.960 -->
00:28:01.660of things yeah he's got a lot of little things
00:28:01.660 -->
00:28:04.039like he's taught he always talks about his mother
00:28:04.039 -->
00:28:08.000who is with them supposedly but never seen never
00:28:08.000 -->
00:28:10.279seen and it's obvious just from the setup that
00:28:10.279 -->
00:28:12.099she couldn't physically be there like they're
00:28:12.099 -->
00:28:14.420they're in a car most of the time and he has
00:28:14.420 -->
00:28:19.079these little sexy fucking green army doll ladies
00:28:19.079 -->
00:28:21.500like they're like the plastic army men but they're
00:28:21.500 -->
00:28:25.680like pinup girls basically that he's always carrying
00:28:25.680 -->
00:28:29.220around with him and he uses them also as like
00:28:29.220 -->
00:28:32.539a calling card in a way for each one of his kills
00:28:32.539 -->
00:28:35.160like when he's about to kill somebody they find
00:28:35.160 -->
00:28:40.519the the little plastic dolls so him and virginia
00:28:40.519 -->
00:28:43.180are kind of I don't know if they're on the run
00:28:43.180 -->
00:28:45.759or what. They're just kind of road tripping.
00:28:45.940 -->
00:28:51.900They're just out. He likes being on the road
00:28:51.900 -->
00:28:54.920with his girl. Nothing matters to him. This is
00:28:54.920 -->
00:28:57.099kind of a tie -in between all of them. Serial
00:28:57.099 -->
00:29:00.559killers in this world are very self -assured.
00:29:00.559 -->
00:29:03.400They're doing what they want to do. They have
00:29:03.400 -->
00:29:07.000very free existences. They're not conflicted.
00:29:07.390 -->
00:29:10.130or regretful violence and being a serial killer.
00:29:10.369 -->
00:29:13.369And in Edwin's case, more his love for Virginia
00:29:13.369 -->
00:29:16.490has enabled them to just kind of live their best
00:29:16.490 -->
00:29:20.049lives. And in the opening couple pages of Plastic,
00:29:20.069 -->
00:29:23.109he's planning on going to Rome or something.
00:29:23.170 -->
00:29:26.230Like he's going to go out and take his girl.
00:29:26.720 -->
00:29:30.039out and for retirement essentially and there's
00:29:30.039 -->
00:29:32.799all these little things to like these little
00:29:32.799 -->
00:29:35.000details of the relationship to like give like
00:29:35.000 -->
00:29:37.140insight into like edwin's character and like
00:29:37.140 -->
00:29:40.579you immediately kind of sympathize with him or
00:29:40.579 -->
00:29:43.079like you think he's like a nice guy because there's
00:29:43.079 -->
00:29:45.059all these little things he does like talking
00:29:45.059 -->
00:29:47.599about like getting her favorite donut which becomes
00:29:47.599 -->
00:29:49.599like a kind of running gag and this thing is
00:29:49.599 -->
00:29:52.140the donut trying to get a soft cleaning brush
00:29:52.140 -->
00:29:56.019for like for wiping her down and shit like that
00:29:56.019 -->
00:29:58.019like there's all these like little things that
00:29:58.019 -->
00:30:01.680he does like he treats virginia very he treats
00:30:01.680 -->
00:30:04.559her well if she was a real woman you know yeah
00:30:04.559 -->
00:30:07.619he loves her a lot and like it's very apparent
00:30:07.619 -->
00:30:10.000within these like first few pages of this first
00:30:10.000 -->
00:30:12.099issue this will go into the next one as well
00:30:12.099 -->
00:30:13.839but quickly can you just talk about like how
00:30:13.839 -->
00:30:15.960he's drawn i thought that was interesting like
00:30:15.960 -->
00:30:18.660the kind of like peter pan kind of thing that
00:30:18.660 -->
00:30:21.839got going on yeah so the one thing i will say
00:30:21.839 -->
00:30:25.960about hilliard's art style he does it seems like
00:30:25.960 -->
00:30:29.099settle in a little bit more throughout these
00:30:29.099 -->
00:30:32.700three I mean, they're like 10 years apart almost
00:30:32.700 -->
00:30:37.240by the last most recent thing. But this first
00:30:37.240 -->
00:30:39.720one's a little bit more detailed, a little bit
00:30:39.720 -->
00:30:43.380more rendered. But his art style is very similar
00:30:43.380 -->
00:30:47.099to Ryan Otley, I would say. I don't think it's
00:30:47.099 -->
00:30:49.220intentional or anything like that. But there's
00:30:49.220 -->
00:30:52.380something about, maybe not this so much, but
00:30:52.380 -->
00:30:56.230later on. Plush, it looks like. almost the same
00:30:56.230 -->
00:30:58.589guy but that could be the color or two and well
00:30:58.589 -->
00:31:01.710it's also too like it's a little it gives a little
00:31:01.710 -->
00:31:06.950adult animation like a more detailed adult animation
00:31:06.950 -->
00:31:09.930kind of vibe not in a bad way i think it fits
00:31:09.930 -->
00:31:14.750there's like a cartoony nature to the the people's
00:31:14.750 -->
00:31:18.509faces and their proportions but it's still very
00:31:18.509 -->
00:31:22.670grounded grounded with a subtle like over characterizations
00:31:22.670 -->
00:31:24.470like if someone's old they're gonna have this
00:31:24.470 -->
00:31:28.869like crazy jutting hollowed kind of cheekbones
00:31:28.869 -->
00:31:31.549like a buff guy will be just like just like a
00:31:31.549 -->
00:31:33.609little too buff like his shoulders would just
00:31:33.609 -->
00:31:36.460be unproportionately wide it's just tweaked everything's
00:31:36.460 -->
00:31:39.819a little a little uh extra and his art style
00:31:39.819 -->
00:31:42.599really suits these kind this story because it
00:31:42.599 -->
00:31:45.650is kind of grounded but it's that thing they're
00:31:45.650 -->
00:31:47.930larger than life as well yeah it's like it's
00:31:47.930 -->
00:31:51.869the elevated real world yeah uh which is it's
00:31:51.869 -->
00:31:53.769something that's very consistent throughout this
00:31:53.769 -->
00:31:56.730thing i will say he does also like ryan ottley
00:31:56.730 -->
00:32:00.569have a little bit of same face syndrome um with
00:32:00.569 -->
00:32:03.849some of these characters but i think a lot of
00:32:03.849 -->
00:32:06.589it just has to do with the art style yeah they're
00:32:06.589 -->
00:32:11.279kind of sleazy type guy faces and kind of anime
00:32:11.279 -->
00:32:14.240girl eyes for the most part so he pulls up to
00:32:14.240 -->
00:32:19.079this gas station and while he's inside these
00:32:19.079 -->
00:32:23.099fucking townie douchebags come and are like harassing
00:32:23.099 -->
00:32:27.660harass virginia a crazy line too i just want
00:32:27.660 -->
00:32:31.119to point this out when trey the like the leader
00:32:31.119 -->
00:32:33.339of like this like this douchebag group who's
00:32:33.339 -->
00:32:35.819also like the son of this louisiana billionaire
00:32:35.819 -->
00:32:41.299guy he he says anybody ever tell you your mouth
00:32:41.299 -->
00:32:45.079looks like it could suck the stain off a 2x4
00:32:45.079 -->
00:32:50.880which is insane like that is insane Wagner has
00:32:50.880 -->
00:32:54.819some of the like he some of the lines in these
00:32:54.819 -->
00:32:58.160in these comics are like good like he gets the
00:32:58.160 -->
00:33:03.740very it all is very cohesive just like a piece
00:33:03.740 -->
00:33:07.849of shit thing to say but like comic book levels.
00:33:08.029 -->
00:33:10.369You know what I mean? Like, comic book level
00:33:10.369 -->
00:33:13.769of it. Like, it's that kind of pushing it just
00:33:13.769 -->
00:33:17.029a little bit further. Also, like, you can stain,
00:33:17.049 -->
00:33:19.710like, a chair. You can stain, like, a deck. But,
00:33:19.750 -->
00:33:21.869like, you wouldn't stain, like, just a single
00:33:21.869 -->
00:33:24.670tube. Yeah, who's staining a tube before? What
00:33:24.670 -->
00:33:29.849do you do with it next? But, talking about, like,
00:33:29.890 -->
00:33:33.170the elevated stuff, one thing that Hilliard does
00:33:33.170 -->
00:33:37.920very well. is the violence so they harass virginia
00:33:37.920 -->
00:33:41.160and edwin beats the fucking shit out of them
00:33:41.160 -->
00:33:43.779like not just beats the shit out of them but
00:33:43.779 -->
00:33:47.519like breaks fingers he's tearing off ears throwing
00:33:47.519 -->
00:33:52.059heads into easily easily for all of these comics
00:33:52.059 -->
00:33:56.500humans in this world are made of just crunchy
00:33:56.500 -->
00:34:00.809squishy stuff good to the letterer again the
00:34:00.809 -->
00:34:03.250the sound effects are phenomenal they like really
00:34:03.250 -->
00:34:06.049really like help sell it so good there's there's
00:34:06.049 -->
00:34:08.670a great panel where he's like shoving the cleaning
00:34:08.670 -->
00:34:11.929brush into the one of the guy's mouths who has
00:34:11.929 -->
00:34:14.309like a plastic bag over his face and then you
00:34:14.309 -->
00:34:18.449get the the fucking the the gags and the garfle
00:34:18.449 -->
00:34:21.889fucking sound effect gags and garfles and so
00:34:21.889 -->
00:34:25.429he he takes these guys out there's such a funny
00:34:25.429 -->
00:34:28.039fucking pen they there's these great little moments
00:34:28.039 -->
00:34:32.400too where like virginia's always hella horny
00:34:32.400 -->
00:34:35.400for some reason she's always down he's always
00:34:35.400 -->
00:34:40.719he's always like virginia again like there's
00:34:40.719 -->
00:34:43.059a lot of fun they're cute moments like that and
00:34:43.059 -->
00:34:45.000like that's the thing too is like there it this
00:34:45.000 -->
00:34:48.380is a dark and there's some tension but it's always
00:34:48.380 -->
00:34:51.940not undercut but it's always light you know there's
00:34:51.940 -->
00:34:54.960a levity to everything in the comic whether it's
00:34:54.960 -->
00:34:56.960like the violence with it being like over the
00:34:56.960 -->
00:35:01.789top and like cool to, like, the darkness of,
00:35:01.869 -->
00:35:05.010like, the killing instinct. The villains take
00:35:05.010 -->
00:35:07.369themselves super seriously. They're always very
00:35:07.369 -->
00:35:10.550angry and shouting. The protagonists, like, even
00:35:10.550 -->
00:35:12.690when they're really bothered, they'll snap and
00:35:12.690 -->
00:35:14.849they'll slaughter people, but then they kind
00:35:14.849 -->
00:35:16.869of, like, they bounce back into a happy mood
00:35:16.869 -->
00:35:20.250and get back on task very quickly. And so after
00:35:20.250 -->
00:35:24.329that, Edwin and Virginia escape, and we meet...
00:35:24.710 -->
00:35:31.989this billionaire mob boss guy his name is thaddeus
00:35:31.989 -->
00:35:35.929bellevue bellevue oh my god right he's from louisiana
00:35:35.929 -->
00:35:40.869thaddeus bellevue who great character design
00:35:40.869 -->
00:35:43.750honest i really like this guy's character design
00:35:43.750 -->
00:35:48.369just meat head fucking gray hair he's giving
00:35:48.369 -->
00:35:51.610cable a little tuft yeah yeah he's got this big
00:35:51.610 -->
00:35:54.110scar he's got the scar from his ex -wife yeah
00:35:54.110 -->
00:35:57.150and there's this thing that wagner does in the
00:35:57.150 -->
00:36:01.889writing that i like he the world feels very lived
00:36:01.889 -->
00:36:05.269in like there's all everybody has a backstory
00:36:05.269 -->
00:36:07.989and they refer to it but we don't really get
00:36:07.989 -->
00:36:12.250into it like it's implied that so him and his
00:36:12.250 -->
00:36:15.469son trey one of the assholes that was harassing
00:36:15.469 -->
00:36:18.320virginia have like a very tense relationship
00:36:18.320 -->
00:36:21.199obviously like the dad's abusive he's always
00:36:21.199 -->
00:36:24.159talking about how his late mother was kind of
00:36:24.159 -->
00:36:26.920like the same like she always talked back it's
00:36:26.920 -->
00:36:29.059implied that like he he had killed her and that
00:36:29.059 -->
00:36:32.900comes around later he sends two of his like cronies
00:36:32.900 -->
00:36:36.920one of them's a deputy and the other guy is tall
00:36:36.920 -->
00:36:41.880wolverine yeah yeah yeah they kidnap edwin and
00:36:41.880 -->
00:36:47.260virginia somehow bellevue finds out that edwin
00:36:47.260 -->
00:36:50.619has been living under this other name victor
00:36:50.619 -->
00:36:56.179and he has been a spook for like the cia or like
00:36:56.179 -->
00:36:58.780the government yeah something completely dropped
00:36:58.780 -->
00:37:01.099very weird he's supposed to be a serial killer
00:37:01.099 -->
00:37:03.239they never i don't know if they'll fucking so
00:37:03.239 -->
00:37:05.920i think later so it's like i think it's implied
00:37:06.090 -->
00:37:08.809that he was like he's like a killer right and
00:37:08.809 -->
00:37:11.250he has these urges so he is recruited by like
00:37:11.250 -->
00:37:13.429the government to do a bunch of killings but
00:37:13.429 -->
00:37:16.329also cool like more characterization like never
00:37:16.329 -->
00:37:18.170fucking get into it but also he used to work
00:37:18.170 -->
00:37:20.230for the fucking government like and also too
00:37:20.230 -->
00:37:21.969like what we were talking about with like the
00:37:21.969 -->
00:37:24.070whole like redeemable killer thing it's like
00:37:24.070 -->
00:37:26.869yeah he's a killer but it was government sanctioned
00:37:26.869 -->
00:37:30.070so it's okay like it's that it's a little bit
00:37:30.070 -->
00:37:32.969of a little bit of a gimme like it's it's it's
00:37:32.969 -->
00:37:34.929one of those things where it's kind of absolves
00:37:34.929 -->
00:37:38.130him bit yeah so he agrees because they have they
00:37:38.130 -->
00:37:41.070have virginia bellevue wants him to be a personal
00:37:41.070 -->
00:37:43.750spook to get virginia back yeah and he wants
00:37:43.750 -->
00:37:47.510him to kill the sheriff of this town who's like
00:37:47.510 -->
00:37:50.070not cooperating with him and while they have
00:37:50.070 -->
00:37:54.590edwin tied up and virginia strung up the deputy
00:37:54.590 -->
00:37:57.769guy thomas he's got some funny nickname yeah
00:37:57.769 -->
00:38:00.610we're gonna call him liquor from now on because
00:38:00.610 -->
00:38:05.130that is the the the caption that goes off in
00:38:05.130 -->
00:38:07.590edwin's mind because he licks virginia's leg
00:38:07.590 -->
00:38:11.139and the other guy tall wolverine i don't remember
00:38:11.139 -->
00:38:14.500his name at all but he he looks up her skirt
00:38:14.500 -->
00:38:18.239and he becomes eyes everybody wants to fuck virginia
00:38:18.239 -->
00:38:21.699everybody yeah and so they they they get these
00:38:21.699 -->
00:38:26.599nicknames for their transgressions basically
00:38:26.599 -->
00:38:29.480which will play into his like whole serial killer
00:38:29.480 -->
00:38:32.719thing later on it goes full circle on the fifth
00:38:32.719 -->
00:38:35.579issue they go back to the same kind of like pier
00:38:35.579 -->
00:38:38.239you can just kind of skip the middle three it's
00:38:38.239 -->
00:38:40.860just more yeah that's what i'm thinking it's
00:38:40.860 -->
00:38:42.880just more it's more characterization that these
00:38:42.880 -->
00:38:46.320guys are fucked up that he's a crazy killer um
00:38:46.320 -->
00:38:49.960uh he's got this pass he's got his mo this this
00:38:49.960 -->
00:38:53.809uh hitchhiker girl gets roped into it um there
00:38:53.809 -->
00:38:56.409is like these these like scenes of like sexual
00:38:56.409 -->
00:38:58.730violence it doesn't show everything edwin comes
00:38:58.730 -->
00:39:01.889in and liquor liquor liquor's got a lick edwin
00:39:01.889 -->
00:39:04.630comes in and puts a stop to it tangentially he
00:39:04.630 -->
00:39:07.250doesn't give a shit he is uh out for revenge
00:39:07.250 -->
00:39:11.429for virginia and uh she gets roped in because
00:39:11.429 -->
00:39:14.110she wants to help him and he's very like respectful
00:39:14.110 -->
00:39:19.369of her i guess it's a little it's a little It's
00:39:19.369 -->
00:39:22.190a little weird, but she's now a character. She
00:39:22.190 -->
00:39:25.449just kind of likes his vibe. She likes the fact
00:39:25.449 -->
00:39:28.750that he loves Virginia so much. We spend the
00:39:28.750 -->
00:39:31.409three issues in the middle. He's on a war path,
00:39:31.730 -->
00:39:33.849cutting down the guys who transgressed against
00:39:33.849 -->
00:39:36.289Virginia, trying to find her, making threat.
00:39:36.449 -->
00:39:40.309The son... And the father's relationship of the
00:39:40.309 -->
00:39:42.929antagonist kind of becomes their central thing
00:39:42.929 -->
00:39:45.090where he's trying to protect him, but he kind
00:39:45.090 -->
00:39:47.389of has to use him as bait or something. And by
00:39:47.389 -->
00:39:50.409the fifth issue, it's all leading back to the
00:39:50.409 -->
00:39:53.789pier. And there is a big climax where they're
00:39:53.789 -->
00:39:56.650going to trade the son for Virginia. I do want
00:39:56.650 -->
00:40:00.199to go back a little bit. Because as we like learn
00:40:00.199 -->
00:40:04.059more about like Edwin's kind of process for killing,
00:40:04.219 -->
00:40:06.880he does this thing where he'll cut the heads
00:40:06.880 -->
00:40:09.500off of the people he kills, puts them in a plastic
00:40:09.500 -->
00:40:12.659bag and labels them. And that's why we get liquor
00:40:12.659 -->
00:40:15.800and eyes. And he slowly makes his way through
00:40:15.800 -->
00:40:18.940different people. At one point, Bellevue sends
00:40:18.940 -->
00:40:22.809another hitman to kill him. after he was supposed
00:40:22.809 -->
00:40:26.110to have killed the sheriff and then he also has
00:40:26.110 -->
00:40:30.389a thing for plastic obviously he loves he likes
00:40:30.389 -->
00:40:34.010using plastic sports to kill people carve out
00:40:34.010 -->
00:40:37.809their eyes the plastic bags he uses the plastic
00:40:37.809 -->
00:40:41.849army dolls as calling card yeah kind of like
00:40:41.849 -->
00:40:44.269calling card or to like tell people that he's
00:40:44.269 -->
00:40:47.409coming throughout there's some great violence
00:40:47.409 -->
00:40:52.579and the action scenes are really fun and cinematic
00:40:52.579 -->
00:40:56.099stuff like the the layouts are nice the splash
00:40:56.099 -->
00:41:01.099pages are really like well composed like i think
00:41:01.099 -->
00:41:05.159hilliard does have like he's got a lot he he's
00:41:05.159 -->
00:41:08.099got a good eye for like these action scenes and
00:41:08.099 -->
00:41:11.760like the pacing them in a way like on the page
00:41:11.760 -->
00:41:16.260that like feels energetic but he also gets in
00:41:16.260 -->
00:41:18.860a lot of these like little details which is really
00:41:18.860 -->
00:41:22.429fun For each of the middle comics, like I said,
00:41:22.469 -->
00:41:25.630you can kind of take them or leave them in the
00:41:25.630 -->
00:41:28.369sense that we will come back to the same beat
00:41:28.369 -->
00:41:32.130where we started in the same location. But you're
00:41:32.130 -->
00:41:34.730not bored reading them. There's a natural flow
00:41:34.730 -->
00:41:39.409of Edwin will kind of stalk his prey. He'll observe
00:41:39.409 -->
00:41:41.869them. It's kind of like the classic teenagers
00:41:41.869 -->
00:41:44.989need to be punished thing where he'll stalk them.
00:41:45.250 -->
00:41:47.750They're potty mouths. They're perverts. They're
00:41:47.750 -->
00:41:54.280bigots. And then in the third quarter, he'll
00:41:54.280 -->
00:41:57.699destroy them. He'll obliterate them. It's incredibly
00:41:57.699 -->
00:42:00.739gruesome. And he'll get a clue about Virginia.
00:42:00.880 -->
00:42:03.179And it's always fun to go through. Like, I was
00:42:03.179 -->
00:42:06.119never bored, even in those middle three. Yeah,
00:42:06.139 -->
00:42:08.739exactly. That's the thing with Wagner, I think,
00:42:08.760 -->
00:42:11.840in general, his writing. Like, it builds nicely.
00:42:12.059 -->
00:42:14.960And these five issues, perfect. Like, we get
00:42:14.960 -->
00:42:18.960six for vinyl and for plush later on. But for
00:42:18.960 -->
00:42:22.199this one, like as they're kind of like figuring
00:42:22.199 -->
00:42:25.820out the flow, like you'll see the structure kind
00:42:25.820 -->
00:42:28.800of repeats itself because this ends in a big
00:42:28.800 -->
00:42:32.780standoff at this like bait house on the pier,
00:42:32.960 -->
00:42:37.860like on the fucking bayou. They end up, it ends
00:42:37.860 -->
00:42:42.260up blowing up. Edwin gets shot. He escapes with
00:42:42.260 -->
00:42:46.659Gwen, the hitchhiker girl and Virginia. They
00:42:46.659 -->
00:42:53.210escape. But Edwin wants to go back and get Beliveau
00:42:53.210 -->
00:42:57.550because of what him and Trey did to Virginia.
00:42:57.849 -->
00:43:01.750So Gwen goes off. And after that, we meet Edwin's
00:43:01.750 -->
00:43:05.630mom, who is a disembodied skull at this point
00:43:05.630 -->
00:43:08.829because it's so decomposed in a plastic bag.
00:43:08.989 -->
00:43:13.550And it says, Mom. on it it's so interesting too
00:43:13.550 -->
00:43:17.349because like as you were saying the the father
00:43:17.349 -->
00:43:20.170-son dynamic really does become like kind of
00:43:20.170 -->
00:43:22.070the anchoring point like that's what we loop
00:43:22.070 -->
00:43:25.329back around to at the very end we see the dad
00:43:25.329 -->
00:43:29.070is reading the newspaper and at the very end
00:43:29.070 -->
00:43:31.989we we find out that the sheriff and the family
00:43:31.989 -->
00:43:33.690that's who we were sent to kill in the first
00:43:33.690 -->
00:43:35.929issue yeah back when back when he was trying
00:43:35.929 -->
00:43:39.130to get him yeah yeah So he's even more redeemable.
00:43:39.269 -->
00:43:42.690We have this moment where Trey is about, Trey's
00:43:42.690 -->
00:43:45.409like mad at his dad for like everything that's
00:43:45.409 -->
00:43:47.409been going on and like what he did to his mom
00:43:47.409 -->
00:43:49.269and like all these feelings bubble up and he's
00:43:49.269 -->
00:43:53.110going to shoot his dad and Bellevue apologizes.
00:43:53.389 -->
00:43:58.190And then fucking Edwin, Virginia in their fucking
00:43:58.190 -->
00:44:02.909car come crashing through the window that he,
00:44:02.949 -->
00:44:05.389and he's loaded his car up with a bunch of explosives.
00:44:06.750 -->
00:44:09.469they just kamikaze it uh did you did you read
00:44:09.469 -->
00:44:14.010the the spinoff his prequel yeah so we can get
00:44:14.010 -->
00:44:16.489back into this a little bit later when we talk
00:44:16.489 -->
00:44:18.630about the other stuff but there's there is a
00:44:18.630 -->
00:44:21.389prequel comic to this that we're not going to
00:44:21.389 -->
00:44:24.130really cover in depth just the the final panel
00:44:24.130 -->
00:44:26.429on that one you know what i'm saying like the
00:44:26.429 -->
00:44:29.239prequel but the continuation yeah There may be
00:44:29.239 -->
00:44:31.900more Edwin in the future. But overall, what were
00:44:31.900 -->
00:44:35.440your first impressions or overall feelings about
00:44:35.440 -->
00:44:39.019Plastic? It was a fun ride. Didn't get bored
00:44:39.019 -->
00:44:41.199the whole time. This was the first thing of his
00:44:41.199 -->
00:44:44.119that I read. Pretty much every scene is grounded
00:44:44.119 -->
00:44:47.960in some kind of... He's very much about the relationships
00:44:47.960 -->
00:44:51.639between the characters. And that's like a theater
00:44:51.639 -->
00:44:53.260thing that they always talk about. You're never
00:44:53.260 -->
00:44:55.239bored as long as you can make them interested.
00:44:55.880 -->
00:44:58.380in the like the people who are talking right
00:44:58.380 -->
00:45:00.340in front of you at this moment yeah i thought
00:45:00.340 -->
00:45:03.920the the dialogue was fun it had like a good sense
00:45:03.920 -->
00:45:06.719of humor yeah yeah taken by itself i yeah would
00:45:06.719 -->
00:45:09.039definitely recommend anybody yeah i i really
00:45:09.039 -->
00:45:12.579like plastic a lot too with with the spinoffs
00:45:12.579 -->
00:45:16.159also i like death and dolls oh yeah yeah a lot
00:45:16.159 -->
00:45:18.260as well i think they work really well together
00:45:18.260 -->
00:45:21.760and i think this is like a really fun really
00:45:21.760 -->
00:45:26.079fun story and it works like it feels like It's
00:45:26.079 -->
00:45:29.099too short for a movie, but it's perfect for like
00:45:29.099 -->
00:45:31.780a five issue. Yeah. Yeah. It matches the form
00:45:31.780 -->
00:45:35.320super well. It's tight. It moves so well. And
00:45:35.320 -->
00:45:38.289this is something that I feel like it. you just
00:45:38.289 -->
00:45:42.849like it's very reliable with wagner's writing
00:45:42.849 -->
00:45:46.130at least with these three which is something
00:45:46.130 -->
00:45:49.429that i i feel like a little one note i guess
00:45:49.429 -->
00:45:53.449yeah but it is very like it's fun like it's one
00:45:53.449 -->
00:45:55.710of those things where like if this was a movie
00:45:55.710 -->
00:45:57.449this is some shit that i would just like throw
00:45:57.449 -->
00:46:00.519on you know yeah yeah and like for sure there's
00:46:00.519 -->
00:46:03.300a great blurb that i see on like a lot on like
00:46:03.300 -->
00:46:06.659the trade and like for a lot of the solicits
00:46:06.659 -->
00:46:09.599for this one for plastic robert kirkman called
00:46:09.599 -->
00:46:14.360it the weirdest shit i've ever read and uh that
00:46:14.360 -->
00:46:16.500that's a little sneak peek into our next episode
00:46:16.500 -->
00:46:19.480maybe yeah like i i really fuck with it it's
00:46:19.480 -->
00:46:22.900weird and it's like unapologetically weird and
00:46:22.900 -->
00:46:27.219it settles you into the world very well and with
00:46:27.219 -->
00:46:29.900things like vinyl which we're gonna look at now
00:46:29.900 -->
00:46:34.320and plush it just escalates you're in there already
00:46:34.320 -->
00:46:37.280yeah it just escalates and escalates the the
00:46:37.280 -->
00:46:40.300last thing i will say about it what completely
00:46:40.300 -->
00:46:43.079sold me on the comic and this might just completely
00:46:43.079 -->
00:46:46.239be me but i think it was on purpose there's a
00:46:46.239 -->
00:46:49.440moment he a whole other thing is that he's got
00:46:49.440 -->
00:46:52.380a a side character who's a dead body he finds
00:46:52.380 -->
00:46:54.599a dead body and it's it's his partner for a lot
00:46:54.599 -->
00:46:58.519of it During issue one, they had to get across
00:46:58.519 -->
00:47:01.039that Virginia wants to fuck all the time. So
00:47:01.039 -->
00:47:03.980he would always be like, Virginia, you want to
00:47:03.980 -->
00:47:07.460do what? In the second issue, Virginia is gone.
00:47:07.579 -->
00:47:09.300He's with this dead body. He's talking to this
00:47:09.300 -->
00:47:13.320dead body. And after they become partners, he
00:47:13.320 -->
00:47:16.239looks at the dead body and he says, you want
00:47:16.239 -->
00:47:20.570to do what? And the very next panel is him moving
00:47:20.570 -->
00:47:23.190a dead body. And he's like, good idea. So he
00:47:23.190 -->
00:47:26.269set up this moment where you thought that he
00:47:26.269 -->
00:47:29.150was maybe about to fuck up, fuck the dead body
00:47:29.150 -->
00:47:31.849with no payoff. It's like, it's very subtle,
00:47:31.929 -->
00:47:35.010but it is like playing a trick with your expectations.
00:47:35.250 -->
00:47:38.650And if, if that's what he did, that's such a
00:47:38.650 -->
00:47:40.210cool bit of writing. Like you've got me sold
00:47:40.210 -->
00:47:42.449at that moment. That's the thing too, is like,
00:47:42.489 -->
00:47:47.639it's very funny in a, goofy way that's like charming
00:47:47.639 -->
00:47:51.059it's almost like a dad joke yeah yeah yeah things
00:47:51.059 -->
00:47:56.380in these that are very dad jokey but they work
00:47:56.380 -->
00:47:59.000so well because of the way it's kind of juxtaposed
00:47:59.000 -->
00:48:01.400with like we were talking before about like what
00:48:01.400 -->
00:48:03.840kind of like movies these remind us of and like
00:48:03.840 -->
00:48:06.119i had said like maybe like tarantino but this
00:48:06.119 -->
00:48:10.719is like if tarantino was like not a cynic like
00:48:10.719 -->
00:48:14.219yeah it's more of like a fun you know like i
00:48:14.219 -->
00:48:16.179guess like i was saying before like maybe like
00:48:16.179 -->
00:48:19.619james gunn stuff where there's like a fun aspect
00:48:19.619 -->
00:48:24.719goofy kind of corny if anything like sense of
00:48:24.719 -->
00:48:28.760humor that is unapologetic about it they're just
00:48:28.760 -->
00:48:31.900like no this is like fun and this is funny and
00:48:31.900 -->
00:48:35.099it's goofy but it can also be dark yeah and like
00:48:35.099 -->
00:48:37.960he's he's he's he's playing with the fact that
00:48:37.960 -->
00:48:41.789you can And I think he gets more and more confident
00:48:41.789 -->
00:48:43.710as time goes along. He's just playing with the
00:48:43.710 -->
00:48:46.110fact that you can see all this gore and not get...
00:48:46.110 -->
00:48:48.550You can keep that levity. He pretty much maintains
00:48:48.550 -->
00:48:51.630it the whole time. The action sequences are action
00:48:51.630 -->
00:48:54.550-y. You're never... I don't think you're ever
00:48:54.550 -->
00:48:56.809supposed to be grossed out. He's playing with
00:48:56.809 -->
00:49:01.110the fact that you can go on this fucked up ride
00:49:01.110 -->
00:49:06.050and never actually feel squeamish. And I feel
00:49:06.050 -->
00:49:07.510like as he goes along, he's just more and more
00:49:07.510 -->
00:49:09.539confident in that. That's the thing too. It's
00:49:09.539 -->
00:49:12.099like with Hilliard's art, like all of the violence
00:49:12.099 -->
00:49:15.840isn't gross per se. It's cool. Like it looks
00:49:15.840 -->
00:49:18.260fucking sick. Like that's part of it too. And
00:49:18.260 -->
00:49:19.860I think that's where like Hilliard does like
00:49:19.860 -->
00:49:21.900a lot of heavy lifting. Like he makes it look
00:49:21.900 -->
00:49:24.920fun and like interesting. We don't want to be
00:49:24.920 -->
00:49:28.139reminded that they're fucked up, like remorseless
00:49:28.139 -->
00:49:31.440serial killers. If we see too much, like. violence
00:49:31.440 -->
00:49:33.340that makes us think of real life it kind of like
00:49:33.340 -->
00:49:35.519brings some morality into it we just want to
00:49:35.519 -->
00:49:37.599see like someone's fucking head turn into a pumpkin
00:49:37.599 -->
00:49:43.519exactly exactly all right so next up vinyl 2022
00:49:43.519 -->
00:49:47.739i'm not gonna hide it this is my favorite one
00:49:47.739 -->
00:49:50.820no doubt this is uh this is the weirdest one
00:49:50.820 -->
00:49:53.760without a doubt we got wagner we got hilliard
00:49:53.760 -->
00:50:00.099and the fucking goat dave stewart on colors Him,
00:50:00.099 -->
00:50:05.300he and Jordy Belair, like, in terms of colorists
00:50:05.300 -->
00:50:09.420in comics, is, like, now especially to, like,
00:50:09.440 -->
00:50:13.340if you're a comic reader, you will know their
00:50:13.340 -->
00:50:17.360names or, like, recognize their shit because
00:50:17.360 -->
00:50:21.380it's fucking peak. Like, this one especially.
00:50:22.599 -->
00:50:26.760the it's so good it's so pretty to look at like
00:50:26.760 -->
00:50:31.199the i think hilliard's art in this one is great
00:50:31.199 -->
00:50:34.460the colors are awesome and fucking ed dukeshire
00:50:34.460 -->
00:50:39.289on letters is fucking awesome like it is like
00:50:39.289 -->
00:50:40.949the the sound effects in this one especially
00:50:40.949 -->
00:50:44.809because this is very music focused which is something
00:50:44.809 -->
00:50:48.190that can be cringy at times especially in comics
00:50:48.190 -->
00:50:52.150for like this it's worked in so well like the
00:50:52.150 -->
00:50:55.469the lettering in this book is like beautiful
00:50:55.469 -->
00:50:57.969like this is a master class in like sound effects
00:50:57.969 -->
00:51:01.440and like incorporating like music and things
00:51:01.440 -->
00:51:05.159into a comic book like for a visual medium and
00:51:05.159 -->
00:51:09.820for me wagner's writing is so tight and he does
00:51:09.820 -->
00:51:12.340take a little bit bigger of a swing with this
00:51:12.340 -->
00:51:16.039one because it's very non -linear in the structure
00:51:16.039 -->
00:51:19.320the the premise of the show basically is that
00:51:19.320 -->
00:51:21.719i don't know any of these comic book people's
00:51:21.719 -->
00:51:24.980names but even i could tell like the the the
00:51:24.980 -->
00:51:28.300coloring on this one does just take it To a whole
00:51:28.300 -->
00:51:31.139other level. The first one, the one we just read,
00:51:31.179 -->
00:51:35.760I feel like it was about shadows and neon. Very
00:51:35.760 -->
00:51:39.320cool, very dark. It did have some nice depths
00:51:39.320 -->
00:51:44.260to it. When we get to the third one, I feel like
00:51:44.260 -->
00:51:47.639those are very bright colors without too much
00:51:47.639 -->
00:51:50.559shadowing to them. This second one, the choices
00:51:50.559 -->
00:51:54.440that he makes tied into this kind of garden sunflower
00:51:54.440 -->
00:51:58.639motif. that runs throughout the whole thing.
00:51:59.059 -->
00:52:03.119It's very summertime horror. Very midsummer,
00:52:03.280 -->
00:52:07.300like, in that, like, dark, gross, disgusting
00:52:07.300 -->
00:52:12.300shit over just, like, bright, saturated, pretty
00:52:12.300 -->
00:52:17.340-ass character design and, like, artwork. So,
00:52:17.360 -->
00:52:21.559Vinyl 2022, this is their second collaboration
00:52:21.559 -->
00:52:26.710in the Materials Trilogy proper. plastic now
00:52:26.710 -->
00:52:31.070we have vinyl we're returning to this world of
00:52:31.070 -->
00:52:36.010cartoonish serial killers living their best structurally
00:52:36.010 -->
00:52:41.090this has a very similar setup something that
00:52:41.090 -->
00:52:44.409is consistent throughout three which is serial
00:52:44.409 -->
00:52:48.889killer guy gets wrapped up in this bigger corrupt
00:52:48.889 -->
00:52:54.690politicians slash law enforcement or like a cult
00:52:54.690 -->
00:53:01.309mob thing that... A powerful person who is using
00:53:01.309 -->
00:53:05.289their influence to abuse others. And it all culminates
00:53:05.289 -->
00:53:08.940in like a raid. basically or a big yeah kind
00:53:08.940 -->
00:53:13.760of standoff yeah and this one i think is from
00:53:13.760 -->
00:53:17.019like a reader perspective it's the most fun because
00:53:17.019 -->
00:53:20.280it's structured like a heist movie so much of
00:53:20.280 -->
00:53:24.579it is like the the main assault on this cult
00:53:24.579 -->
00:53:28.679compound and throughout we get these flashbacks
00:53:28.679 -->
00:53:30.860of like oh how did we get here this new thing
00:53:30.860 -->
00:53:33.039that's introduced like what is the backstory
00:53:33.039 -->
00:53:36.829of this person or this thing so How does vinyl
00:53:36.829 -->
00:53:39.929start? I'm going to give a ton of information
00:53:39.929 -->
00:53:42.789as an example of how much information that he
00:53:42.789 -->
00:53:44.949gets in. We're going to leave aside the flash
00:53:44.949 -->
00:53:47.550forward. The flash forward is just a wild moment
00:53:47.550 -->
00:53:51.269from the middle of the comic, maybe the middle
00:53:51.269 -->
00:53:55.329end. So if we skip the flash forward, we have
00:53:55.329 -->
00:54:04.8001, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 pages. Within 10
00:54:04.800 -->
00:54:08.079pages, we know that there's a serial killer.
00:54:08.380 -->
00:54:11.059There's an FBI agent who's trying to catch him.
00:54:11.179 -->
00:54:14.860Walter is the serial killer. And Dennis. Walter
00:54:14.860 -->
00:54:18.059is the serial killer. Dennis is the FBI agent.
00:54:18.380 -->
00:54:23.559Walter treats and thinks of Dennis as a friend.
00:54:23.860 -->
00:54:27.400Dennis just fucking wants Walter to fess up to
00:54:27.400 -->
00:54:32.599these fucking crimes. This... This could get
00:54:32.599 -->
00:54:35.960across like very, very quickly, but it feels
00:54:35.960 -->
00:54:38.260like they're getting in so much because it's
00:54:38.260 -->
00:54:41.900all through these like pretty slow burn, great
00:54:41.900 -->
00:54:45.820characterization, fun conversations that they're
00:54:45.820 -->
00:54:49.820having. It's never didactic and never feels like
00:54:49.820 -->
00:54:52.239an info dump. It's got a great rhythm to it,
00:54:52.280 -->
00:54:54.559but you get all that information across. And
00:54:54.559 -->
00:54:57.719then the biggest switch, it happens around like
00:54:57.719 -->
00:55:01.380the fifth page. there you have to buy the premise
00:55:01.380 -->
00:55:03.579that there's this very strange relationship between
00:55:03.579 -->
00:55:06.719a serial killer and an fbi agent that's like
00:55:06.719 -->
00:55:10.260somewhat playful um but high stakes and walter
00:55:10.260 -->
00:55:13.900has this proclivity for music that's one thing
00:55:13.900 -->
00:55:17.059too that's like established very early on and
00:55:17.059 -->
00:55:20.800dennis's whole thing is that he's trying to bait
00:55:20.800 -->
00:55:25.000him into confessing by giving him records that
00:55:25.000 -->
00:55:28.760reference these murders that have been happening
00:55:28.760 -->
00:55:33.599where a record has been played every time a person
00:55:33.599 -->
00:55:37.460is killed and so we meet them at this like coffee
00:55:37.460 -->
00:55:40.980shop like daytime coffee shop thing they're having
00:55:40.980 -->
00:55:45.400their like batman gordon -esque thing hannibal
00:55:45.400 -->
00:55:49.639fucking conversation charlize theron pulls up
00:55:49.639 -->
00:55:56.260yes the page you've got up right now You have
00:55:56.260 -->
00:55:59.139to buy it here. You have to buy it here. In the
00:55:59.139 -->
00:56:03.039next two pages, we just did eight pages of this
00:56:03.039 -->
00:56:07.420like fun setup. Now there is a cult leader right
00:56:07.420 -->
00:56:09.460in front of you with all these flower children
00:56:09.460 -->
00:56:13.239behind, someone wearing a spooky mask, this like
00:56:13.239 -->
00:56:16.320prepper looking guy. And we just dramatically
00:56:16.320 -->
00:56:20.559take the entire comic in a new angle. She's got
00:56:20.559 -->
00:56:24.679beef with this FBI guy. The FBI guy is Walters
00:56:24.679 -->
00:56:29.019Virginia. He's taken from him. And he's got to
00:56:29.019 -->
00:56:33.539go save him from this. The more you know, the
00:56:33.539 -->
00:56:38.840more and more and more bizarre cults. And that's
00:56:38.840 -->
00:56:42.159like... it it feels it to me i was like that's
00:56:42.159 -->
00:56:43.960a little like ham -fisted like how the fuck did
00:56:43.960 -->
00:56:46.840they just throw that in there but honestly everything
00:56:46.840 -->
00:56:49.000i just told you with a little bit of exceptions
00:56:49.000 -->
00:56:51.679is kind of all you need to know for the next
00:56:51.679 -->
00:56:53.780like five comics and that's the thing too with
00:56:53.780 -->
00:56:56.739this like wagner does a great job of like just
00:56:56.739 -->
00:56:59.179dropping you in the world like this is these
00:56:59.179 -->
00:57:01.320are things these are people that have lives and
00:57:01.320 -->
00:57:04.139backstories and connections with each other because
00:57:04.139 -->
00:57:08.440the thing is that madeline this cult leader her
00:57:09.199 -->
00:57:14.360Son was imprisoned by Dennis. He's out and now
00:57:14.360 -->
00:57:19.619he's free. And he's this giant fucking Bane ass
00:57:19.619 -->
00:57:22.480motherfucker who keeps killing all the girls
00:57:22.480 -->
00:57:25.639that he's supposed to like be betrothed to. And
00:57:25.639 -->
00:57:29.750Dennis's daughter is part of this cult. And she's
00:57:29.750 -->
00:57:32.929using that as leverage to convince him to come
00:57:32.929 -->
00:57:35.630back with her. And in this page where you're
00:57:35.630 -->
00:57:38.909first introduced to her, you get so much visual
00:57:38.909 -->
00:57:41.969information about kind of like the layout of
00:57:41.969 -->
00:57:46.010her like squad. Like she has this yellow mask
00:57:46.010 -->
00:57:49.849lady in all white. She's got all white on. And
00:57:49.849 -->
00:57:53.170then she has this mercenary with her too. So
00:57:53.170 -->
00:57:58.730she has her like. Her team is comprised of her
00:57:58.730 -->
00:58:03.590cult members, these superhuman zombie ladies,
00:58:04.210 -->
00:58:10.869and then the mercenaries. Their whole thing is
00:58:10.869 -->
00:58:17.489the backdrop. The cult is the setting. So the
00:58:17.489 -->
00:58:22.719comic doesn't want to explore. them at all they
00:58:22.719 -->
00:58:27.039just have weird shit in their big mansion and
00:58:27.039 -->
00:58:31.219dennis has to get into the mansion it's really
00:58:31.219 -->
00:58:35.119weird but it like it's a swing and it kept it
00:58:35.119 -->
00:58:39.260fresh the the comic book wants to talk about
00:58:39.260 -->
00:58:41.360the serial killers the relationships between
00:58:41.360 -->
00:58:43.820the serial killers the relationship between the
00:58:43.820 -->
00:58:46.780fbi and the serial killers that's what it's interested
00:58:46.780 -->
00:58:50.289in it could have done that in a bank heist it
00:58:50.289 -->
00:58:52.170could have done that with another revenge thing
00:58:52.170 -->
00:58:54.670could have done that with like a corrupt sheriff
00:58:54.670 -->
00:58:58.110like we'll get later it just chose to go this
00:58:58.110 -->
00:59:02.250bizarre direction which i i think adds a ton
00:59:02.250 -->
00:59:05.530makes it very interesting and very strange and
00:59:05.530 -->
00:59:08.829we get this also great character moment where
00:59:08.829 -->
00:59:12.449walter he he follows them to the mansion and
00:59:12.449 -->
00:59:15.690he has this exchange with the lady there's like
00:59:15.690 -->
00:59:19.239almost like a child like quality to Walter because
00:59:19.239 -->
00:59:22.780he's an old guy and he has this he's just kind
00:59:22.780 -->
00:59:26.059of like just this affable like just nice dude
00:59:26.059 -->
00:59:28.659and like the these are the things too that like
00:59:28.659 -->
00:59:31.719with the design from Hilliard and Wagner's writing
00:59:31.719 -->
00:59:34.619like you really get a good sense of the character
00:59:34.619 -->
00:59:37.139like he like Walter seems like the most harmless
00:59:37.139 -->
00:59:40.710guy ever and he he literally rides up on a little
00:59:40.710 -->
00:59:44.110fucking bicycle and it's like hey like where
00:59:44.110 -->
00:59:46.909do you take my friend let my friend go and as
00:59:46.909 -->
00:59:49.769he leaves he's turned away and he leaves a note
00:59:49.769 -->
00:59:53.570in the mailbox to be sent out and that will come
00:59:53.570 -->
00:59:57.989back around later and we get this fun page that
00:59:57.989 -->
01:00:01.030i think does a really good job of kind of getting
01:00:01.030 -->
01:00:04.190across like those like cinematic like cutting
01:00:04.190 -->
01:00:06.969back moments like that you would get in like
01:00:06.969 -->
01:00:10.389a oceans 11 movie but it translates super well
01:00:10.389 -->
01:00:13.929in these in hilliard's like layout and his art
01:00:13.929 -->
01:00:18.150you get dennis's partner ruiz vic we get dennis's
01:00:18.150 -->
01:00:22.090partner ruiz yeah victoria ruiz who he had been
01:00:22.090 -->
01:00:25.130on like on the earpiece with the comms with the
01:00:25.130 -->
01:00:28.070comms who is finding out like dennis has been
01:00:28.070 -->
01:00:30.250taken and like the fbi doesn't want to do anything
01:00:30.250 -->
01:00:33.210about it because he had gone willingly interspersed
01:00:33.260 -->
01:00:37.559with these panels of New York City Fashion District,
01:00:37.699 -->
01:00:43.059a skin suit being sewn with bones and Monson,
01:00:43.059 -->
01:00:47.300Pennsylvania, bloody chainsaw and monster masks
01:00:47.300 -->
01:00:51.619and Kansas City. Movie props. Kansas City, Missouri,
01:00:51.920 -->
01:00:55.449like a garbage man. And they're all getting phone
01:00:55.449 -->
01:01:00.550calls. I'm the trash man. That's my thing. I
01:01:00.550 -->
01:01:03.710just throw trash around. I wish he had a bit
01:01:03.710 -->
01:01:07.289like that. I wish he had a bit like that. But
01:01:07.289 -->
01:01:11.230that would be funny. And then we just get right
01:01:11.230 -->
01:01:16.219into it too. so that's all of like the backstory
01:01:16.219 -->
01:01:19.199we get like initially at the very very beginning
01:01:19.199 -->
01:01:23.639opening page we get like an in media res of like
01:01:23.639 -->
01:01:26.420this assault Dennis is bleeding out he's got
01:01:26.420 -->
01:01:29.860this zombie lady after him and he's telling Walter
01:01:29.860 -->
01:01:32.739to put on the mask which is this teddy bear mask
01:01:32.739 -->
01:01:36.699and then we cut to their initial conversation
01:01:37.800 -->
01:01:40.960And then after all this, we just get into it.
01:01:40.960 -->
01:01:44.380At the end of this issue, we get a fun security
01:01:44.380 -->
01:01:50.559camera POV of Walter pulling up on the compound
01:01:50.559 -->
01:01:55.960and just taking everybody out. And he's in his
01:01:55.960 -->
01:02:02.199suit, and he's got a teddy bear old ass falling
01:02:02.199 -->
01:02:07.909apart. teddy bear mask on again some great fucking
01:02:07.909 -->
01:02:13.190art and some great sound effects like i can hear
01:02:13.190 -->
01:02:17.630this like it's that whole like staticky security
01:02:17.630 -->
01:02:21.190camera footage with just gunshots going off in
01:02:21.190 -->
01:02:24.780the background People say this sometimes, and
01:02:24.780 -->
01:02:27.420sometimes people say it too much, but I do think
01:02:27.420 -->
01:02:30.039the chills you get from this one is one of those
01:02:30.039 -->
01:02:32.619things that you can only do in a comic book.
01:02:32.780 -->
01:02:36.599There's panel by panel, the guards not moving
01:02:36.599 -->
01:02:39.619in the same position, and the guy in the bear
01:02:39.619 -->
01:02:43.500suit popping up in different places. So just
01:02:43.500 -->
01:02:47.440the way your brain fills in, oh my God, he's
01:02:47.440 -->
01:02:50.519just like... He's faster than them. He's very
01:02:50.519 -->
01:02:53.400mysterious. He's a killer. There's a threatening
01:02:53.400 -->
01:02:57.340vibe to it with a big black cutout and just squishes
01:02:57.340 -->
01:03:01.699at the end. It's very cinematic. It's badass.
01:03:02.159 -->
01:03:04.400It just looks really fucking cool. I think Hilliard
01:03:04.400 -->
01:03:08.980uses the comic book language very well with the
01:03:08.980 -->
01:03:15.059paneling. Throughout this story, this raid, that's
01:03:15.059 -->
01:03:21.219the main framing device. It's basically Walter
01:03:21.219 -->
01:03:27.519teams up slash kidnaps Ruiz to help him get back
01:03:27.519 -->
01:03:32.500Dennis. And throughout the book, he's going through
01:03:32.500 -->
01:03:35.079just taking out. It's very Game of Death, right?
01:03:35.239 -->
01:03:37.900We get him just going through the levels of the
01:03:37.900 -->
01:03:40.739cult, taking out different people. And throughout,
01:03:41.019 -->
01:03:45.960we find out that he has also recruited other
01:03:45.960 -->
01:03:50.199serial killers. He has assembled an elite team.
01:03:50.280 -->
01:03:53.739He got the gang back together. Yeah, and they're
01:03:53.739 -->
01:03:59.760all equally as... Gimmicky sounds bad, but they
01:03:59.760 -->
01:04:04.579all have this fun, cartoonish bit that they're
01:04:04.579 -->
01:04:09.239doing. Everybody has their own character, and
01:04:09.239 -->
01:04:14.239it's fun. The twins are horror fans. That's their
01:04:14.239 -->
01:04:18.480thing. Their kills are homages. They are the
01:04:18.480 -->
01:04:23.579Scream franchise personified horror movie obsessed
01:04:23.579 -->
01:04:30.539young serial killer twins. And we have Guy. that's
01:04:30.539 -->
01:04:34.800his thing he throws trash if trash is blood and
01:04:34.800 -->
01:04:37.760guts then yes he just literally goes around just
01:04:37.760 -->
01:04:40.000like grabbing people and like snapping their
01:04:40.000 -->
01:04:42.179necks look at that look at the vinyl highlights
01:04:42.179 -->
01:04:44.800dude i have my favorites on there i have my favorites
01:04:44.800 -->
01:04:47.539on there he's just a big fucking guy yeah he's
01:04:47.539 -->
01:04:49.900just a big fucking dude who's also like just
01:04:49.900 -->
01:04:55.530chill like he's like a chill guy like yeah korloff
01:04:55.530 -->
01:04:58.750boris karloff looking and then so we have the
01:04:58.750 -->
01:05:05.269twins guy and renny renny who is the skin suit
01:05:05.269 -->
01:05:09.000fashion designer She gets her own comic later.
01:05:09.079 -->
01:05:11.880Yeah, she gets the spin -off, the sequel, I Was
01:05:11.880 -->
01:05:14.820a Fashion School Serial Killer, later on. And
01:05:14.820 -->
01:05:17.980her whole thing is the people that she kills,
01:05:18.159 -->
01:05:22.500she bathes in their blood and makes a skin suit
01:05:22.500 -->
01:05:26.960out of them. So we have these three, or four,
01:05:27.139 -->
01:05:30.119if you're counting Walter. Walter has recruited
01:05:30.119 -->
01:05:31.659them. Five, if you count the twins as separate
01:05:31.659 -->
01:05:39.929people. Yeah. We get Walter, who is Snap, the
01:05:39.929 -->
01:05:43.190teddy bear man, who listens to music while he's
01:05:43.190 -->
01:05:47.510killing people. We have the twins, Guy and Renny,
01:05:47.630 -->
01:05:51.829and they go through just making their way through
01:05:51.829 -->
01:05:59.030the cult. We also find out on the Madeline side,
01:05:59.289 -->
01:06:05.010the Bellini Sunflower Farm cult, Madeline is...
01:06:05.500 -->
01:06:10.039shirley sterone she has her mercenaries which
01:06:10.039 -->
01:06:13.599she ends up dropping later on because they start
01:06:13.599 -->
01:06:17.579she does the great little like oh you're fucking
01:06:17.579 -->
01:06:20.579incompetent kills them all thing which is great
01:06:20.579 -->
01:06:27.239yeah and then she has the yellow gold mask ladies
01:06:27.239 -->
01:06:33.840who walter tells the twins are haints like there's
01:06:33.840 -->
01:06:38.219their souls trapped in dead bodies basically
01:06:38.219 -->
01:06:40.800which is also a thing like they reference in
01:06:40.800 -->
01:06:44.219sinners too like that's what they call that's
01:06:44.219 -->
01:06:46.719what they think the vampires are to begin with
01:06:46.719 -->
01:06:49.699so we we introduce this supernatural element
01:06:49.699 -->
01:06:52.179yeah it's the only one right it's like a cult
01:06:52.179 -->
01:06:55.480supernatural well also i mean like plush too
01:06:55.480 -->
01:06:59.199we'll get into later it's it's more It's less
01:06:59.199 -->
01:07:03.039concrete how fantastical it is, right? But this
01:07:03.039 -->
01:07:06.679one, they just go for it. We also find out that
01:07:06.679 -->
01:07:13.519Madeline has her mother is locked in the basement
01:07:13.519 -->
01:07:17.199and she's like a zombie, like a super zombie
01:07:17.199 -->
01:07:23.400lady. And then her son is this crazy, like fucking
01:07:23.400 -->
01:07:28.690redneck Bane looking guy. There's also like a
01:07:28.690 -->
01:07:32.630chef that eats people. Yeah, we have like the
01:07:32.630 -->
01:07:35.409butcher lady. They're basically, they're like
01:07:35.409 -->
01:07:38.869Silent Hill bosses. Like they don't get a ton
01:07:38.869 -->
01:07:40.849of characterization. They just like exist to
01:07:40.849 -->
01:07:46.099show up. To kill or be killed by the killers
01:07:46.099 -->
01:07:48.000as they progress their way through the movie.
01:07:48.019 -->
01:07:50.739And throughout, we get little flashbacks of Walter
01:07:50.739 -->
01:07:54.420going and recruiting all of his friends. Yeah.
01:07:54.920 -->
01:07:58.960Rennie had given him an MP3 player. She is kind
01:07:58.960 -->
01:08:03.159of his, I guess, like, pseudo -daughter -esque
01:08:03.159 -->
01:08:05.019character. Yeah, for sure. Like, she takes care
01:08:05.019 -->
01:08:08.460of him because he's, like, kind of like a...
01:08:08.829 -->
01:08:11.869confused old man in a way which we'll get to
01:08:11.869 -->
01:08:15.530later the boy the twins are kind of their fan
01:08:15.530 -->
01:08:20.310boys and their fan boys of walter and renny and
01:08:20.310 -->
01:08:24.630guy especially renny oh my god yeah good dude
01:08:24.630 -->
01:08:26.909who wouldn't be who wouldn't be they sound like
01:08:26.909 -->
01:08:30.770i gotta i gotta take a moment to be a little
01:08:30.770 -->
01:08:33.550thirsty because fucking ranny has that she's
01:08:33.550 -->
01:08:36.850just that like classic like the fucking goth
01:08:36.850 -->
01:08:39.689characters in like old cartoon you know what
01:08:39.689 -->
01:08:43.289i mean doesn't that like awakening of like she's
01:08:43.289 -->
01:08:47.189just like ethan if you if you'll check my reference
01:08:47.189 -->
01:08:53.470images uh covers uh scroll down to one of two
01:08:53.470 -->
01:08:57.420different covers that i include god yes also
01:08:57.420 -->
01:09:02.340slightly am slightly asian coded i don't think
01:09:02.340 -->
01:09:06.340i'm crazy for saying that yeah and like there's
01:09:06.340 -->
01:09:09.000some great little character moments too again
01:09:09.000 -->
01:09:12.340wagner just making the world feel living you
01:09:12.340 -->
01:09:15.699get these little little things that they do like
01:09:15.699 -->
01:09:19.770renny's always scratching The way that he kind
01:09:19.770 -->
01:09:23.789of gives the reader information just very casually
01:09:23.789 -->
01:09:26.149without, like, dwelling on it too much. Even
01:09:26.149 -->
01:09:28.449the her bathing in blood thing, it's treated
01:09:28.449 -->
01:09:32.939extremely... Something she's gotta do. everybody's
01:09:32.939 -->
01:09:34.779used to it yeah it's just something that she
01:09:34.779 -->
01:09:38.420does and like we don't explain it but it's something
01:09:38.420 -->
01:09:42.140that is it's taken as a fact of the world even
01:09:42.140 -->
01:09:46.060the twins they reference they they talk about
01:09:46.060 -->
01:09:50.600oh how cool would it be if she made a skin suit
01:09:50.600 -->
01:09:53.899out of them which ends up happening later on
01:09:53.899 -->
01:09:57.779because they are murdered by this by madeline's
01:09:57.779 -->
01:10:04.460fucking bane ass son Like I said, the cult is
01:10:04.460 -->
01:10:07.119the backdrop. The emotional heart of this entire
01:10:07.119 -->
01:10:12.060run is that all of the serial killers are sensitive,
01:10:12.399 -->
01:10:17.680emotional, fiercely loyal, chill people who also
01:10:17.680 -->
01:10:21.739kill probably innocent people for fun. We don't
01:10:21.739 -->
01:10:24.560get into it in this. It doesn't matter. We just
01:10:24.560 -->
01:10:27.340get scene after scene about these really well
01:10:27.340 -->
01:10:30.399-characterized... empathetic like pretty cool
01:10:30.399 -->
01:10:32.600relationships that they all have with each other
01:10:32.600 -->
01:10:34.460yeah that's i mean that's what's the comic is
01:10:34.460 -->
01:10:37.279about exactly everybody feels very human and
01:10:37.279 -->
01:10:40.300like they have history with each other and that
01:10:40.300 -->
01:10:43.659their relationships these for a lot of them this
01:10:43.659 -->
01:10:46.840is the end of their relationships yeah yeah this
01:10:46.840 -->
01:10:49.300story which i think is fun like you you're meeting
01:10:49.300 -->
01:10:53.869them all in the Twilight, yeah. Of their lives,
01:10:54.029 -->
01:10:56.130yeah. Which is something, like, this could easily
01:10:56.130 -->
01:10:59.069be, like, I could see if we were starting from
01:10:59.069 -->
01:11:01.270the beginning. This could be, like, a long -running
01:11:01.270 -->
01:11:06.390series where this is kind of the end of it. Like,
01:11:06.430 -->
01:11:09.069this is, like, their big kind of send -off. But
01:11:09.069 -->
01:11:12.510we get kind of dropped at the end of their stories,
01:11:12.630 -->
01:11:15.810which is really fun. Yeah. It's their Red Dead
01:11:15.810 -->
01:11:19.670Redemption. Surprisingly tender moment when...
01:11:20.569 -->
01:11:26.149the twins die and renny has to make a suit out
01:11:26.149 -->
01:11:30.069of their skin and she's crying and just like
01:11:30.069 -->
01:11:33.130thinking about them and which i think is really
01:11:33.130 -->
01:11:36.229fun one of the twin dies and the other one cuts
01:11:36.229 -->
01:11:38.149his throat because he doesn't want to live without
01:11:38.149 -->
01:11:40.409the twin and he's like please make me into a
01:11:40.409 -->
01:11:43.310skin suit and she's like okay i promise honestly
01:11:43.310 -->
01:11:45.529dude i'm just gonna power through i don't think
01:11:45.529 -->
01:11:48.630it's that big of a beat he has alzheimer's and
01:11:48.630 -->
01:11:51.619he has to keep the mp3 player on at all times
01:11:51.619 -->
01:11:55.819if he doesn't have the mp3 player on um then
01:11:55.819 -->
01:11:59.260he's he doesn't know where he is it's like sometimes
01:11:59.260 -->
01:12:01.840alzheimer's patients can be reminded of things
01:12:01.840 -->
01:12:04.199if music is playing and it just takes that concept
01:12:04.199 -->
01:12:07.180and turns it up to 11. it happens about halfway
01:12:07.180 -->
01:12:09.930through it's a good way to take them out yeah
01:12:09.930 -->
01:12:14.210we have a scene where dennis and walter finally
01:12:14.210 -->
01:12:19.949link up together and the zombie mom is this is
01:12:19.949 -->
01:12:22.189the flash forward that we get at the very beginning
01:12:22.189 -->
01:12:26.569the zombie mom is about to kill dennis the record
01:12:26.569 -->
01:12:29.789that they had been playing his mp3 break and
01:12:29.789 -->
01:12:35.179he gets confused and dennis has to like seeing
01:12:35.179 -->
01:12:40.079like fucking this old man yeah nursery rhymes
01:12:40.079 -->
01:12:44.039so that he can walter can lock in put the mask
01:12:44.039 -->
01:12:49.479on and like get back to it it's not meant to
01:12:49.479 -->
01:12:51.899be like a serious thing about alzheimer's i think
01:12:51.899 -->
01:12:53.659it didn't really like bug me i just thought it
01:12:53.659 -->
01:12:56.399was a little goofy but as as a plot thing it
01:12:56.399 -->
01:12:59.880works it does keep things yeah there is like
01:12:59.880 -->
01:13:02.640kind of a fun it's like a fun twist that adds
01:13:02.640 -->
01:13:05.939like a little bit of like tension although that
01:13:05.939 -->
01:13:08.560just yeah adds more layers to characterization
01:13:08.560 -->
01:13:11.340too yeah that's why he always has the records
01:13:11.340 -->
01:13:13.460so do we want to talk a little bit before we
01:13:13.460 -->
01:13:15.720get to the very end do you want to talk a little
01:13:15.720 -->
01:13:18.000bit about someone like the best like kills and
01:13:18.000 -->
01:13:21.220deaths uh i mean the one you've got up right
01:13:21.220 -->
01:13:24.859now all the trash man stuff was fun um the trash
01:13:24.859 -->
01:13:28.260man is looking for a glorious death because they
01:13:28.260 -->
01:13:30.479reference edwin in virginia they're like wow
01:13:30.479 -->
01:13:34.220the old heads are getting wiped out so he um
01:13:34.220 -->
01:13:38.000he gets uh he like douses himself he's getting
01:13:38.000 -->
01:13:40.680fucked up by the haints and he like douses himself
01:13:40.680 -->
01:13:44.159in oil he's got a really like burned out muscle
01:13:45.130 -->
01:13:47.689panel it looks pretty good that was a fun ending
01:13:47.689 -->
01:13:52.090for him the panel where renny like premieres
01:13:52.090 -->
01:13:56.810her twin skin suit is great she always got these
01:13:56.810 -->
01:14:01.149like these bone daggers that she kills the madeline's
01:14:01.149 -->
01:14:04.170son with which is a awesome fucking panel also
01:14:04.170 -->
01:14:07.289yeah the the skin suit does look good it's got
01:14:07.289 -->
01:14:10.149like that hanging jaw like that little floppy
01:14:10.149 -->
01:14:12.270jaw at the bottom i like that yeah it looks really
01:14:12.270 -->
01:14:16.989really good and then so um once walter fucking
01:14:16.989 -->
01:14:21.930locks in there's some great final push like to
01:14:21.930 -->
01:14:25.689the end is really fun because a lot of it you
01:14:25.689 -->
01:14:29.289don't see is like they do a lot of the fun things
01:14:29.289 -->
01:14:31.430where you only see some of the big hits and then
01:14:31.430 -->
01:14:33.850some of the more like crazy gruesome things you
01:14:33.850 -->
01:14:36.300get kind of like the corner of like you just
01:14:36.300 -->
01:14:40.380get a little tiny piece like the frame and one
01:14:40.380 -->
01:14:43.220of my favorite parts is the where he takes out
01:14:43.220 -->
01:14:45.300three haints at once and you don't really see
01:14:45.300 -->
01:14:48.840it you just see masks dropping and then you get
01:14:48.840 -->
01:14:53.560this fun panel of three haints all like stood
01:14:53.560 -->
01:14:57.449up by the spears that they're holding through
01:14:57.449 -->
01:15:00.949their heads and through the bottom of one of
01:15:00.949 -->
01:15:04.130their chins that's just holding them all up together,
01:15:04.409 -->
01:15:08.090which it looks so good. What you were saying
01:15:08.090 -->
01:15:11.609before about him knowing how to use the structure
01:15:11.609 -->
01:15:15.109of a comic, if you take your time with this panel,
01:15:15.250 -->
01:15:19.239your brain does just like... do a lot of filling
01:15:19.239 -->
01:15:21.960in the gaps and it's just it's it's it's just
01:15:21.960 -->
01:15:24.460a ton of fun and i really really and he has some
01:15:24.460 -->
01:15:28.659great build -ups to like taking moments for the
01:15:28.659 -->
01:15:31.979fight scenes where you get the big two panels
01:15:31.979 -->
01:15:37.319or two page splash with like these big motions
01:15:37.319 -->
01:15:40.699and stuff like that and his final standoff with
01:15:40.699 -->
01:15:45.779madeline is really fun and the way that they
01:15:45.779 -->
01:15:49.960incorporate the like the music it's always just
01:15:49.960 -->
01:15:53.399kind of drifting around in the background yeah
01:15:53.399 -->
01:15:58.939and it's not super like it's not intrusive like
01:15:58.939 -->
01:16:01.600whether it's the lyrics or like actual musical
01:16:01.600 -->
01:16:06.359notes that you see playing around and it ends
01:16:06.359 -->
01:16:11.180with walter and madeline like they both kind
01:16:11.180 -->
01:16:15.199of kill each other and the whole sunflower farm
01:16:15.600 -->
01:16:19.319goes up in flames and at the very end we get
01:16:19.319 -->
01:16:23.600another kind of we mirror the panels at the very
01:16:23.600 -->
01:16:28.279beginning with the we see the behavioral analysis
01:16:28.279 -->
01:16:33.260unit the fbi in quantico virginia and then we
01:16:33.260 -->
01:16:39.819see dennis's house in missouri and it's interspersed
01:16:39.819 -->
01:16:44.819with the twins house empty um the street where
01:16:44.819 -->
01:16:49.699guy was empty and renny interviewing to be part
01:16:49.699 -->
01:16:52.739of like the new york fashion institute and within
01:16:52.739 -->
01:16:56.399this dennis gets the letter that walter had mailed
01:16:56.399 -->
01:16:58.760at the beginning and it's his confession where
01:16:58.760 -->
01:17:00.939he gives him the location of a storage locker
01:17:00.939 -->
01:17:05.579full of records that he had taken from his victim
01:17:05.579 -->
01:17:08.359each each record is a kill yeah yeah oh my god
01:17:08.359 -->
01:17:11.409there's hundreds again one of those things you
01:17:11.409 -->
01:17:13.590just you can't look too closely at it kind of
01:17:13.590 -->
01:17:16.149changes the whole like story if you're like wait
01:17:16.149 -->
01:17:19.069and then we get the little kaiser sose moment
01:17:19.069 -->
01:17:22.949where yeah a faceless man is sitting on a greyhound
01:17:22.949 -->
01:17:27.090bus to who knows where and music starts playing
01:17:27.090 -->
01:17:30.069and he starts snapping and that's the end of
01:17:30.069 -->
01:17:33.569that one yeah i'm a little more sold on this
01:17:33.569 -->
01:17:37.050one yeah after we spent time yeah this one's
01:17:37.050 -->
01:17:42.569super fun like super tight wacky the characters
01:17:42.569 -->
01:17:45.970are great i really love the twins because like
01:17:45.970 -->
01:17:49.029a lot of the times the whole like meta movie
01:17:49.029 -->
01:17:53.350like bits can be a little bit grating in other
01:17:53.350 -->
01:17:56.289things but this one it's fun like you can tell
01:17:56.289 -->
01:17:59.710like wagner likes this shit like it's really
01:18:00.270 -->
01:18:03.789awesome to look at the wraparound covers for
01:18:03.789 -->
01:18:08.329this yeah yeah i picked this up as a trade when
01:18:08.329 -->
01:18:11.310this first came out and when i saw the wraparound
01:18:11.310 -->
01:18:15.569covers i i i went and looked for some of the
01:18:15.569 -->
01:18:19.989like i have the sunflower one who you got all
01:18:19.989 -->
01:18:21.989right we got sunflower you got i really want
01:18:21.989 -->
01:18:24.789i really want the ready one of course i don't
01:18:24.789 -->
01:18:28.460want the fucking gotta get there but yeah But
01:18:28.460 -->
01:18:32.340some of the alt covers of this are great. Yeah,
01:18:32.380 -->
01:18:35.640just the art's awesome. Like, this one is one...
01:18:35.640 -->
01:18:38.140If I was to recommend one out of these three
01:18:38.140 -->
01:18:41.220to anybody, it would be this one. Because this
01:18:41.220 -->
01:18:44.699one has it all. Yeah. In terms of, like, the
01:18:44.699 -->
01:18:48.220art, the writing, it's tight, it's punchy, it's
01:18:48.220 -->
01:18:52.359funny, and it's just fucking weird as hell. Like,
01:18:52.359 -->
01:18:57.399and, like... it it's a fun fun read this is something
01:18:57.399 -->
01:18:59.880that i think i will come back to like every once
01:18:59.880 -->
01:19:01.760in a while you know what i mean this is something
01:19:01.760 -->
01:19:04.199that i'll just like i'll flip through and just
01:19:04.199 -->
01:19:06.800like read different scenes and just like the
01:19:06.800 -->
01:19:09.859character dynamics are are really fun for this
01:19:09.859 -->
01:19:13.750one yeah um Well, now that we've shit all over
01:19:13.750 -->
01:19:19.470it, we can go to the last one. This next one
01:19:19.470 -->
01:19:23.510fucking sucks. That's the thing. Mileage may
01:19:23.510 -->
01:19:26.930vary on all of these, but I think the quality
01:19:26.930 -->
01:19:30.850is pretty consistent. Even though vinyl is my
01:19:30.850 -->
01:19:35.149favorite, I wouldn't say plush or any of the
01:19:35.149 -->
01:19:39.869other ones are bad. At their worst, they're kind
01:19:39.869 -->
01:19:45.329of like... it's mid but still fun and cool and
01:19:45.329 -->
01:19:47.789interesting you know i still like it a lot you
01:19:47.789 -->
01:19:51.909know so plush comes out one year later 2023 or
01:19:51.909 -->
01:19:56.750it starts the year that the first issue i think
01:19:56.750 -->
01:20:00.090comes out the year before it's even out or before
01:20:00.090 -->
01:20:03.970it's finished vinyls like trade paperback comes
01:20:03.970 -->
01:20:10.619out because let me see um yes so november 2021
01:20:10.619 -->
01:20:14.100oh yeah it's like a full year 2021 so yeah november
01:20:14.100 -->
01:20:19.1192021 is the last vinyl issue the trade paperback
01:20:19.119 -->
01:20:23.600comes out early 2022 plush starts november 2022
01:20:23.600 -->
01:20:30.460and this one is like just from the like the first
01:20:30.460 -->
01:20:34.539cover you can tell that he's just going for it
01:20:34.539 -->
01:20:44.050yeah like right away Devin Fulcher, who was in
01:20:44.050 -->
01:20:48.409a relationship with the daughter of the sheriff
01:20:48.409 -->
01:20:53.050of this small town. And he finds out that she
01:20:53.050 -->
01:20:56.949had been cheating on him with one of the deputies.
01:20:57.090 -->
01:21:00.409All of this is coming out in a conversation with
01:21:00.409 -->
01:21:03.270his friend where he's still like... kind of processing
01:21:03.270 -->
01:21:05.750the emotions he's still mad about it he feels
01:21:05.750 -->
01:21:08.029betrayed i think in a very tight conversation
01:21:08.029 -->
01:21:12.170we get cuck status in a couple panels very very
01:21:12.170 -->
01:21:15.369very snappy uh shitting on our protagonist yeah
01:21:15.369 -->
01:21:18.630a little bit and that's one thing too like with
01:21:18.630 -->
01:21:22.470this i think hilliard i wouldn't say it's like
01:21:22.470 -->
01:21:26.310a weakness but when it gets to like more regular
01:21:26.310 -->
01:21:30.779human stuff I feel like it's not as exciting.
01:21:31.279 -->
01:21:34.539You need a little bit of the weird context. And
01:21:34.539 -->
01:21:37.800I think he provides this through the furry thing.
01:21:37.979 -->
01:21:42.380His roommate is a furry. Yeah. and he convinces
01:21:42.380 -->
01:21:45.659him to go to this furry convention where he also
01:21:45.659 -->
01:21:48.819fucking gives him molly oh yeah he just fucking
01:21:48.819 -->
01:21:52.300roofies him to get his mind off things yeah he
01:21:52.300 -->
01:21:55.619roofies him he's just like yo bro a little something
01:21:55.619 -->
01:21:59.939to take the edge off and in this panel a little
01:21:59.939 -->
01:22:04.329tie -in moment you see snap yeah in the corner
01:22:04.329 -->
01:22:06.930with his teddy bear mask on during this furry
01:22:06.930 -->
01:22:09.109convention which is like a nice little easter
01:22:09.109 -->
01:22:12.930egg but this one we we go right into it within
01:22:12.930 -->
01:22:17.189a few pages devin's at the devin's at the furry
01:22:17.189 -->
01:22:21.270convention he's sick from the molly he goes outside
01:22:21.270 -->
01:22:25.069to throw up and he sees this group of furries
01:22:25.069 -->
01:22:28.210eating somebody so the setup of this one devin
01:22:28.210 -->
01:22:31.649devin pulls up on this group of furries we have
01:22:31.649 -->
01:22:35.800this goat man who i will say it does not look
01:22:35.800 -->
01:22:38.060very much like a fursuit it just looks like a
01:22:38.060 -->
01:22:42.039human goat costume like an actual yeah just like
01:22:42.039 -->
01:22:45.279an actual goat cat girl she's pretty furry cat
01:22:45.279 -->
01:22:49.869girl's pretty yeah goat guy scratch ellie is
01:22:49.869 -->
01:22:53.649a cat girl and then this third one we never see
01:22:53.649 -->
01:22:56.710their face we never see their actual body but
01:22:56.710 -->
01:22:59.829it is a pink i don't know it looks like magic
01:22:59.829 -->
01:23:02.689carp like the head looks like magic carp but
01:23:02.689 -->
01:23:05.170it's like a blonde wig and it's just this like
01:23:05.170 -->
01:23:08.489thick woman it's a fursuit of a human it's not
01:23:08.489 -->
01:23:10.329even like a fursuit it's like but i'm saying
01:23:10.329 -->
01:23:13.229like yeah yeah what a fursuit is to a cat this
01:23:13.229 -->
01:23:16.149suit is to a human you know yeah it's like it's
01:23:16.149 -->
01:23:21.220like a fursuit of A lingerie wearing... Miss
01:23:21.220 -->
01:23:25.060Piggy. If Miss Piggy was a person, if it was
01:23:25.060 -->
01:23:27.119like an actual human, and then you made a fursuit
01:23:27.119 -->
01:23:29.039of that, that's what it looks like. There's only
01:23:29.039 -->
01:23:31.439too many different ways to say that, you know,
01:23:31.460 -->
01:23:33.640we've got an erection looking at this right now.
01:23:36.760 -->
01:23:42.579And that is Keebler. Keebler! And they are just
01:23:42.579 -->
01:23:45.909casually... We get a line from Chuck where he's
01:23:45.909 -->
01:23:48.850like, hey, this isn't as bad as it looks. And
01:23:48.850 -->
01:23:51.590they just have, like, flesh hanging from their
01:23:51.590 -->
01:23:55.229mouths. And they're just over this body. He runs
01:23:55.229 -->
01:23:57.970away. What the fuck is this? I'm out. Yeah, and
01:23:57.970 -->
01:24:02.430he runs into the deputy that his ex was having
01:24:02.430 -->
01:24:04.989an affair with, who had cheated on him with.
01:24:05.130 -->
01:24:09.609Wait, no, the deputy is the father. Wait. Oh,
01:24:09.609 -->
01:24:11.069wait. No, no, no, no, no. You're right. You're
01:24:11.069 -->
01:24:13.750right. No, the deputy. Right, right, right, right,
01:24:13.810 -->
01:24:17.659right. The deputy is the guy that she was cheating
01:24:17.659 -->
01:24:20.119on him with. Also, too, some great character
01:24:20.119 -->
01:24:23.060moments because he takes him to the police station.
01:24:23.159 -->
01:24:26.800Takes him to the evidence locker. And the sheriff
01:24:26.800 -->
01:24:30.619is trying to pressure Devin into still marrying
01:24:30.619 -->
01:24:33.600his daughter. Because Devin was thinking about
01:24:33.600 -->
01:24:35.539proposing and he finds out that she was cheating.
01:24:35.779 -->
01:24:38.939And pregnant. She's pregnant with the guy's baby.
01:24:39.420 -->
01:24:45.109Yeah. And so the sheriff wants... devin to still
01:24:45.109 -->
01:24:49.050marry his daughter and raise he needs the family
01:24:49.050 -->
01:24:54.090connections yeah because devin's family is like
01:24:54.090 -->
01:24:56.970yeah well connected in the city but we hit this
01:24:56.970 -->
01:25:01.920like the the the sheriff uh not that the deputy
01:25:01.920 -->
01:25:04.979is like so funny because he's just like this
01:25:04.979 -->
01:25:09.659meathead guy who's just like yo bro like it's
01:25:09.659 -->
01:25:12.960all chill dude like we're just like i'm so she
01:25:12.960 -->
01:25:16.000doesn't like con not even yeah he's just like
01:25:16.000 -->
01:25:18.300sorry not sorry bro like what are you gonna do
01:25:18.300 -->
01:25:21.119about it which like he there's like some really
01:25:21.119 -->
01:25:23.939fun like the little side characters in the world
01:25:23.939 -->
01:25:27.619like again feel like super yeah but obviously
01:25:27.619 -->
01:25:30.140the sheriff is like a piece of shit they're like
01:25:30.140 -->
01:25:33.180well if you're not gonna marry my daughter i'm
01:25:33.180 -->
01:25:35.399gonna get my deputies to beat the shit out of
01:25:35.399 -->
01:25:39.479you there's one kind of good officer that the
01:25:39.479 -->
01:25:42.420other deputies kind of like tie up right so that
01:25:42.420 -->
01:25:44.579they can go beat the shit out of the guy yeah
01:25:44.579 -->
01:25:47.159so that they can beat the shit out of devon and
01:25:47.159 -->
01:25:52.220devon while he's in the cell he sees keebler
01:25:52.220 -->
01:25:55.060outside the window keebler pops up covered in
01:25:55.060 -->
01:25:59.140blood yeah second issue opens with all the furries
01:25:59.140 -->
01:26:03.779scratch ellie and keebler raiding raiding the
01:26:03.779 -->
01:26:07.000police station to rescue devon and they just
01:26:07.000 -->
01:26:10.100fucking demolish everybody like there's some
01:26:10.100 -->
01:26:12.699fun like violence in this one most of it is just
01:26:12.699 -->
01:26:16.720implied there's some great little i mean we don't
01:26:16.720 -->
01:26:19.159have dave stewart anymore on colors for this
01:26:19.159 -->
01:26:21.720one so this one just looks like invincible basically
01:26:21.720 -->
01:26:25.100yeah like i mean they do do some like really
01:26:25.100 -->
01:26:26.840fun because there's a lot more of these like
01:26:26.840 -->
01:26:30.760bright saturated like neons colors in this one
01:26:30.760 -->
01:26:33.779and they do do some like really cool there are
01:26:33.779 -->
01:26:36.180some like fun choices with the colors in this
01:26:36.180 -->
01:26:39.520one. A lot of pinks, oranges, a lot of teals,
01:26:39.520 -->
01:26:44.100and bright greens and yellows. But this one,
01:26:44.220 -->
01:26:49.880I think... This one's pretty pink overall. Sherbert?
01:26:50.000 -->
01:26:53.960It's kind of sherberty? Yeah, very much so. This
01:26:53.960 -->
01:26:59.119one also, I think, has the most outright gore.
01:26:59.949 -->
01:27:02.949I would say like, like they're not, it's not
01:27:02.949 -->
01:27:05.130like coincidental. Like you have like, they're
01:27:05.130 -->
01:27:08.109cutting out hearts and stuff like that. Like,
01:27:08.109 -->
01:27:10.789yeah, I guess I did have a lot more of that too,
01:27:10.890 -->
01:27:16.130but like this one has like gore gore, like, and
01:27:16.130 -->
01:27:18.529which is, which is really fun. Like juxtaposed
01:27:18.529 -->
01:27:22.529with these like fursuits. Yeah. So I think to
01:27:22.529 -->
01:27:26.430get to condense, condense a little bit. I think
01:27:26.430 -->
01:27:30.119that what's different about this one is, In that
01:27:30.119 -->
01:27:33.180issue one, he has that conversation with his
01:27:33.180 -->
01:27:35.619friend. Oh my God, I'm being pressured into marrying
01:27:35.619 -->
01:27:37.279this woman. She cheated on me. I don't know how
01:27:37.279 -->
01:27:40.500I feel. And then at the end of the comic, he
01:27:40.500 -->
01:27:43.539runs into these serial killer murderers. So the
01:27:43.539 -->
01:27:47.939real hook that will take you over the next six
01:27:47.939 -->
01:27:51.380issues isn't about the serial killers. They're
01:27:51.380 -->
01:27:55.039incidental. They help move things along and they
01:27:55.039 -->
01:28:00.020actually empower him. The situation that he has
01:28:00.020 -->
01:28:03.500to get through actually is about breaking up
01:28:03.500 -->
01:28:06.199with his girlfriend. That's the actual conflict
01:28:06.199 -->
01:28:10.840of the whole comic. We'll get more into it. They're
01:28:10.840 -->
01:28:15.180on his side. They are his allies. The conflict
01:28:15.180 -->
01:28:18.619is all there. There is something thematically,
01:28:18.659 -->
01:28:24.319too, about kink culture and self -actualization
01:28:24.319 -->
01:28:27.989and this whole... like obviously it's elevated
01:28:27.989 -->
01:28:30.670and then we do have like some kind of like supernaturally
01:28:30.670 -->
01:28:33.529elements later on but there is kind of this metaphor
01:28:33.529 -->
01:28:37.970of like becoming your own person and like doing
01:28:37.970 -->
01:28:40.149what you want to do and being who you want to
01:28:40.149 -->
01:28:44.050be but yeah so they they end up escaping with
01:28:44.050 -->
01:28:48.510devin they take him to their their mansion that
01:28:48.510 -->
01:28:54.420is also a old amusement park that was built by
01:28:54.420 -->
01:28:58.840their father. We get the backstory that all of
01:28:58.840 -->
01:29:04.020them were rescued slash kidnapped by their adoptive
01:29:04.020 -->
01:29:09.899father and start this family of cannibalistic
01:29:09.899 -->
01:29:17.199furries. They have this personal what do you
01:29:17.199 -->
01:29:19.680say it? Mythology or whatever? They have this
01:29:20.870 -->
01:29:22.810They have this thing where they're respectful
01:29:22.810 -->
01:29:25.289of the people that they ate. I wrote about it
01:29:25.289 -->
01:29:28.039later. The idea, it's basically like... like
01:29:28.039 -->
01:29:30.039in movies where people are like oh we will thank
01:29:30.039 -->
01:29:32.260the buffalo for the meal that we are about to
01:29:32.260 -->
01:29:34.680receive thank you for your sacrifice that's like
01:29:34.680 -->
01:29:37.680their attitude towards their victims they only
01:29:37.680 -->
01:29:40.720eat other furries like as if you know these people
01:29:40.720 -->
01:29:42.840didn't have enough to worry about yeah because
01:29:42.840 -->
01:29:45.500they have no problem killing anybody yeah yeah
01:29:45.500 -->
01:29:47.000they don't give a fuck yeah they have no problem
01:29:47.000 -->
01:29:49.899killing anybody but they only eat certain people
01:29:49.899 -->
01:29:51.920and there's a funny moment when they're taking
01:29:51.920 -->
01:29:54.840Devin to to to their mansion and he's like oh
01:29:54.840 -->
01:29:57.100what like you you don't want to eat me like well
01:29:57.199 -->
01:29:59.479He gets all offended because they don't want
01:29:59.479 -->
01:30:02.039to eat him. Yeah, that was funny. But we get
01:30:02.039 -->
01:30:04.539another little connection, too, to Vinyl when
01:30:04.539 -->
01:30:08.159we hear Ellie's backstory. I guess she was the
01:30:08.159 -->
01:30:11.359daughter of Madeline. And Madeline was going
01:30:11.359 -->
01:30:13.939to kill her because she was a girl and she wanted
01:30:13.939 -->
01:30:17.859a son. So that is the connection. She has a sunflower
01:30:17.859 -->
01:30:22.380pendant. Each of them has a little thing. A totem.
01:30:22.380 -->
01:30:27.119A little totem. Yeah. Scratch. has this, like,
01:30:27.239 -->
01:30:32.899fucking old... Like, this... Yeah! Yeah! Aztec,
01:30:32.979 -->
01:30:37.319like... Yeah! I'm not gonna try to say that.
01:30:37.579 -->
01:30:39.659Yeah. It looks nasty, though. It looks cool as
01:30:39.659 -->
01:30:42.119fuck. Yeah. And he has this whole... He has,
01:30:42.220 -->
01:30:44.000like, a hobby for making, like, old weapons.
01:30:44.199 -->
01:30:46.460And then... Scratch is my favorite character
01:30:46.460 -->
01:30:48.399in this one. No doubt. Oh, yeah, for sure. There's
01:30:48.399 -->
01:30:50.939this whole bit about where he looks like... He's
01:30:50.939 -->
01:30:54.939like a goat man. Like a realistic goat man. And...
01:30:55.319 -->
01:30:59.159he he's his name is scratch and devin keeps saying
01:30:59.159 -->
01:31:02.159like art like is this not a devil reference like
01:31:02.159 -->
01:31:04.939and he just like does not see it like goes over
01:31:04.939 -->
01:31:08.220his head no i'm scratchy yeah yeah like it's
01:31:08.220 -->
01:31:11.060it's so fun it's just one of those like fun little
01:31:11.060 -->
01:31:12.920things where it's like you don't have to do that
01:31:12.920 -->
01:31:15.439but it makes it more fun when you're just you
01:31:15.439 -->
01:31:17.500know like when you're just everybody has like
01:31:17.500 -->
01:31:20.760a little fun thing we also get the information
01:31:20.760 -->
01:31:23.859that Keebler is a dude underneath that and he's
01:31:23.859 -->
01:31:26.880like exploring their sexuality uh yeah yeah and
01:31:26.880 -->
01:31:30.000it's really fun and this this mansion that they
01:31:30.000 -->
01:31:32.750live at The backstory is their father had built
01:31:32.750 -->
01:31:36.229this amusement park to court Madeline. And she
01:31:36.229 -->
01:31:38.930turned him down. And that's when he took Ellie.
01:31:39.130 -->
01:31:41.970Yeah. And like this was all for like this. And
01:31:41.970 -->
01:31:44.449like that's how they're kind of connected. Wait,
01:31:44.510 -->
01:31:47.970we do have to say the reason that he is invited
01:31:47.970 -->
01:31:50.930is because he locked eyes with Ellie in the alley.
01:31:51.109 -->
01:31:54.850And their weird thing about like eating people
01:31:54.850 -->
01:31:57.289or not eating people. It's like, oh, they have
01:31:57.289 -->
01:31:58.989chemistry. So we're going to save him. We're
01:31:58.989 -->
01:32:01.529going to risk our lives. to like pull him into
01:32:01.529 -->
01:32:04.449our group. So he's resistant to it at first.
01:32:04.489 -->
01:32:06.229And then as time goes on, he's like, oh my God,
01:32:06.289 -->
01:32:09.270I really did have this connection with you. But
01:32:09.270 -->
01:32:11.930even without that, they really are a surrogate
01:32:11.930 -->
01:32:14.850to make him stand up for himself. When he gets
01:32:14.850 -->
01:32:17.550kidnapped by them, he leaves a note in the ground
01:32:17.550 -->
01:32:19.529that's like, fuck you and your cheating daughter.
01:32:19.770 -->
01:32:22.050So it's like they're making him more confident.
01:32:22.069 -->
01:32:24.029He's standing up for himself. And he does have
01:32:24.029 -->
01:32:26.609a little crisis of faith where he's like, oh,
01:32:26.689 -->
01:32:29.050like after he cares about like Ellie and the
01:32:29.050 -->
01:32:30.909furries, he's like, well, I don't want them to
01:32:30.909 -->
01:32:33.250get fucking murdered. So he like tries to turn
01:32:33.250 -->
01:32:35.390himself in, but they're like, oh, fuck you. Like
01:32:35.390 -->
01:32:37.850you just killed a bunch of my men. So I'm going
01:32:37.850 -->
01:32:40.850to. take you and kill them anyways yeah Devin
01:32:40.850 -->
01:32:43.649ends up escaping and they have their the big
01:32:43.649 -->
01:32:47.350standoff at the mansion so at first this is something
01:32:47.350 -->
01:32:49.229I want to like talk about because like I don't
01:32:49.229 -->
01:32:52.350know what was your read on this they go in and
01:32:52.350 -->
01:32:55.430they kill everybody like they kill all the furries
01:32:55.430 -->
01:32:59.390they shoot Keebler they put arrows in three arrows
01:32:59.390 -->
01:33:02.869in the body one in the head of scratch and they
01:33:02.869 -->
01:33:06.510fucking shoot Ellie too but then they all come
01:33:06.510 -->
01:33:10.380back like they all come back yeah there's that
01:33:10.380 -->
01:33:13.500thing earlier no go ahead go ahead yeah no like
01:33:13.500 -->
01:33:17.079yeah so like there's this whole like supernatural
01:33:17.079 -->
01:33:20.220element to where it's like oh like actually they
01:33:20.220 -->
01:33:22.880do get some kind of powers from eating people
01:33:22.880 -->
01:33:25.779and they're like somewhat immortal i would guess
01:33:25.779 -->
01:33:28.420in their in their self mythology you get stronger
01:33:28.420 -->
01:33:33.020by eating people and the the shot to the chest
01:33:33.659 -->
01:33:37.279is unexplained outside of that bit of information
01:33:37.279 -->
01:33:40.479so that's as good as i could imagine maybe something
01:33:40.479 -->
01:33:43.380to do with like um these uh totems or whatever
01:33:43.380 -->
01:33:45.720they have i'm i'm not sure also they're wearing
01:33:45.720 -->
01:33:47.659suits like you could say i think it's purposely
01:33:47.659 -->
01:33:50.920ambiguous yeah because also serial killers are
01:33:50.920 -->
01:33:53.840also just like supermen like something about
01:33:53.840 -->
01:33:56.140being a serial killer like this guy picks up
01:33:56.140 -->
01:33:59.479a stop sign in this world yeah buzzsaw on it
01:33:59.479 -->
01:34:02.479and fucking split someone in half like Humans
01:34:02.479 -->
01:34:05.659are squishy and killers are strong as fuck. And
01:34:05.659 -->
01:34:08.319like when Devin finally pulls back up to kind
01:34:08.319 -->
01:34:10.939of like back everybody up. after they've been
01:34:10.939 -->
01:34:13.000like quote unquote killed like do you think that
01:34:13.000 -->
01:34:15.439they're killed he puts on he finds a unicorn
01:34:15.439 -->
01:34:20.260furry it's his soul yeah that's his his thing
01:34:20.260 -->
01:34:22.960and his totem is this like wedding ring right
01:34:22.960 -->
01:34:26.100that he was gonna propose to his ex with there's
01:34:26.100 -->
01:34:28.800a funny moment too where scratch has been like
01:34:28.800 -->
01:34:31.319making weapons and stuff and he makes this like
01:34:31.319 -->
01:34:36.619glowing red like pentagram thing And it's so
01:34:36.619 -->
01:34:39.479unexplained. He's just like, oh, this is super
01:34:39.479 -->
01:34:41.859cool. And then he finally has a moment of realization
01:34:41.859 -->
01:34:44.920when he's killing everybody that, oh, shit, I
01:34:44.920 -->
01:34:49.439see it now. I get it. Their costumes are tweaked,
01:34:49.439 -->
01:34:51.779especially the girls, that there's murder weapons
01:34:51.779 -->
01:34:54.640attached to it. The girl has blades in her tail,
01:34:54.819 -->
01:34:57.260and they use it a couple times. It's pretty cool.
01:34:57.439 -->
01:35:02.109The furry head is also... a big giant bear trap
01:35:02.109 -->
01:35:04.909and she'll just like collapse it on people it
01:35:04.909 -->
01:35:07.229looks pretty nice That's one thing, too, I like
01:35:07.229 -->
01:35:09.409about this one, which is really fun, is, like,
01:35:09.409 -->
01:35:11.670kills are a little bit more, like, creative because,
01:35:11.829 -->
01:35:13.550like, they have these, like, different, they're
01:35:13.550 -->
01:35:16.310using their fursuits, they have these, like,
01:35:16.350 -->
01:35:19.989fun, like, cool weapons. I do love the panel
01:35:19.989 -->
01:35:23.930where Ellie, like, slices the deputy in half,
01:35:24.109 -->
01:35:26.529like, with her tail, and you just see it, like,
01:35:26.649 -->
01:35:29.710you hear the, again, awesome fucking Dukeshire
01:35:29.710 -->
01:35:33.470sound effect. The kissy face. Remember the kissy
01:35:33.470 -->
01:35:36.920face? oh yeah kiebler like kiebler's got these
01:35:36.920 -->
01:35:39.380weird big fucking lips and she just holds someone's
01:35:39.380 -->
01:35:42.739head up to the kissy face and they just die they
01:35:42.739 -->
01:35:47.449just die i don't know what happened we also get
01:35:47.449 -->
01:35:49.529a moment too where we find like their father
01:35:49.529 -->
01:35:53.590is like underground and he's just like dead like
01:35:53.590 -->
01:35:55.869he's like just like a fucking zombie like and
01:35:55.869 -->
01:35:58.229he's just been there dead for like a really long
01:35:58.229 -->
01:35:59.729time and he's just sitting there with like a
01:35:59.729 -->
01:36:02.029bunch of old fursuits which we don't like we
01:36:02.029 -->
01:36:04.350don't get any more information on but like it
01:36:04.350 -->
01:36:06.729feels appropriate and it doesn't feel yeah sure
01:36:07.390 -->
01:36:08.829you know what i mean it's kind of like it's like
01:36:08.829 -->
01:36:12.449this psycho thing it just adds yeah exactly yeah
01:36:12.449 -->
01:36:16.909yeah the final kill is devin using the unicorn
01:36:16.909 -->
01:36:21.149horn up the fucking head of the sheriff which
01:36:21.149 -->
01:36:24.970is like a which is a cool panel something about
01:36:24.970 -->
01:36:29.149kink violence and love has given him the strength
01:36:29.149 -->
01:36:32.390to stand up for himself finally and the way he
01:36:32.390 -->
01:36:36.180stands up for himself is by murdering The person
01:36:36.180 -->
01:36:39.520who stood in his way is kind of the climax. And
01:36:39.520 -->
01:36:42.060then he decides to join the furries and kind
01:36:42.060 -->
01:36:44.680of go off. They're on the road. Yeah, he ends
01:36:44.680 -->
01:36:47.140up going back home and recruiting his homie.
01:36:47.199 -->
01:36:51.479Because this all happened over one night. And
01:36:51.479 -->
01:36:54.000so he goes back home the next morning, and he's
01:36:54.000 -->
01:36:55.539just like, hey, brother, you want to come with
01:36:55.539 -->
01:36:59.000us? His homie's trying to fuck Keebler. His homie
01:36:59.000 -->
01:37:01.329might get ate. It's kind of the last panel on
01:37:01.329 -->
01:37:03.590that one. Yeah, because Scratch is like, oh,
01:37:03.630 -->
01:37:06.170by any chance, are you a vegetarian? He only
01:37:06.170 -->
01:37:08.149wants to eat vegetarians. Yeah. But yeah, this
01:37:08.149 -->
01:37:10.630one, this is also really fun. Like, I like this
01:37:10.630 -->
01:37:12.350one a lot, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah,
01:37:12.489 -->
01:37:16.449this thing is like, even, this is maybe my least
01:37:16.449 -->
01:37:20.029favorite, but... out of the three but it's just
01:37:20.029 -->
01:37:22.229it's still really it's still good like i still
01:37:22.229 -->
01:37:24.050really like it and i still think it has like
01:37:24.050 -->
01:37:26.109a lot of like good things going for it i love
01:37:26.109 -->
01:37:29.029like the designs are fun like it's that it's
01:37:29.029 -->
01:37:31.590that like oh guess this pokemon thing you know
01:37:31.590 -->
01:37:33.350where it's like the silhouettes like i could
01:37:33.350 -->
01:37:35.989point them out anywhere now like if i see these
01:37:35.989 -->
01:37:38.630shapes like i could see them like hilliard has
01:37:38.630 -->
01:37:42.850like a great eye for um like character design
01:37:42.850 -->
01:37:45.930i think that comes through in in in all of his
01:37:45.930 -->
01:37:48.229work everybody's like even if there's a little
01:37:48.229 -->
01:37:51.829bit same faciness sometimes like they have everything
01:37:51.829 -->
01:37:56.590else about them is is very like iconic yeah no
01:37:56.590 -->
01:37:58.789and they're still putting stuff out i'll be able
01:37:58.789 -->
01:38:00.989to pick their stuff out for a while though what
01:38:00.989 -->
01:38:03.689i'll say about plush is that i like i like i
01:38:03.689 -->
01:38:06.369like a hero that is like you know just like a
01:38:06.369 -->
01:38:08.390very traditional like goes on their arc thing
01:38:08.390 -->
01:38:12.170with the first two It's more of a vibe movie.
01:38:12.390 -->
01:38:14.130You know what I mean? It's like they're already
01:38:14.130 -->
01:38:16.689cool. They're already on top of their game. They're
01:38:16.689 -->
01:38:19.310already like got their lives figured out. They
01:38:19.310 -->
01:38:21.449don't really go through like an arc. They just
01:38:21.449 -->
01:38:24.710solve the problem. Like the third one, it's more
01:38:24.710 -->
01:38:27.930like learning to stand up for yourself. and i
01:38:27.930 -->
01:38:30.630you know i always like that with plastic and
01:38:30.630 -->
01:38:33.750vinyl we're also like meeting our main characters
01:38:33.750 -->
01:38:37.430at the end of their story yeah whereas for plush
01:38:37.430 -->
01:38:40.630it ends with him picking up the ring and being
01:38:40.630 -->
01:38:43.340like oh maybe a new beginning kind of a thing
01:38:43.340 -->
01:38:45.680so this is kind of like his origin story and
01:38:45.680 -->
01:38:47.819i could see this going somewhere oh for sure
01:38:47.819 -->
01:38:50.779too i think like the characters are fun and like
01:38:50.779 -->
01:38:54.020it's it's cool i'm i'm surprised honestly that
01:38:54.020 -->
01:38:56.220they haven't revisited this yet but we'll see
01:38:56.220 -->
01:38:58.439because well they're going in order right death
01:38:58.439 -->
01:39:01.520and dolls yeah or one two three plastic death
01:39:01.520 -->
01:39:05.539and dolls was really fun i like the the um that
01:39:05.539 -->
01:39:09.079came out this year along with or last year that
01:39:09.079 -->
01:39:12.279and i was a fashion school serial killer to death
01:39:12.279 -->
01:39:15.000and dolls prequel following edwin and his origin
01:39:15.000 -->
01:39:18.039story and then i was a fashion school serial
01:39:18.039 -->
01:39:22.039killer following renny after the events of final
01:39:22.039 -->
01:39:24.640which i mean we don't we're not gonna do like
01:39:24.640 -->
01:39:27.390full breakdowns of them yeah if you if you like
01:39:27.390 -->
01:39:28.970this you'll like that if you're interested to
01:39:28.970 -->
01:39:31.050see these characters a little bit more i was
01:39:31.050 -->
01:39:33.149a fashion school serial killer is a little bit
01:39:33.149 -->
01:39:37.130of a departure from these ones because it's more
01:39:37.130 -->
01:39:40.029i feel like it's more dextery in a sense where
01:39:40.029 -->
01:39:42.590you're following renny in her like daily life
01:39:42.590 -->
01:39:45.810and then she has a secret extra life of being
01:39:45.810 -->
01:39:49.229kind of a vigilante murderer just for for petty
01:39:49.229 -->
01:39:52.630annoyance there's like a school element to it
01:39:52.630 -->
01:39:55.720which It didn't exactly hit for me, but there
01:39:55.720 -->
01:39:58.079were a lot of fun stuff, and it was worth reading
01:39:58.079 -->
01:40:01.760just for more Renny. Yeah, more of that. Also,
01:40:01.939 -->
01:40:07.380there was never the main cover, but those alt
01:40:07.380 -->
01:40:11.279covers. Oh, my God. Yeah, I got it. The alt covers
01:40:11.279 -->
01:40:16.039for all of these are so great. Goddamn. Goddamn.
01:40:16.739 -->
01:40:19.920Yeah, talk about general impressions. What do
01:40:19.920 -->
01:40:22.399you think? All three combined universe. As a
01:40:22.399 -->
01:40:24.479whole, I really like it. I think it's really
01:40:24.479 -->
01:40:30.439fun. And it feels very character -based, too.
01:40:30.619 -->
01:40:33.119It's not just like, oh, here's a premise. These
01:40:33.119 -->
01:40:35.140are the people that live in it. It's like, oh,
01:40:35.199 -->
01:40:39.119these are the characters. And then we're kind
01:40:39.119 -->
01:40:43.060of inferring what the world is around them based
01:40:43.060 -->
01:40:45.779on them specifically. And I like that these are
01:40:45.779 -->
01:40:49.140all kind of self -contained, but they have...
01:40:50.000 -->
01:40:53.319like connections to each other they feel like
01:40:53.319 -->
01:40:55.859they can exist in the same world there's a consistency
01:40:55.859 -->
01:41:00.159to it and it's really they're all like really
01:41:00.159 -->
01:41:03.079fun like in general they're fun they're funny
01:41:03.079 -->
01:41:07.920they're weird and like the action the art and
01:41:07.920 -->
01:41:10.880the writing is really tight and fucking cool
01:41:10.880 -->
01:41:13.819to look at and to read i think it's just good
01:41:13.819 -->
01:41:20.560comic i'm i'm yeah Yeah, good comic book writing.
01:41:21.800 -->
01:41:26.600Good comic book. Just good comic book. Hell yeah.
01:41:27.359 -->
01:41:30.579I think there would be like, there's a million
01:41:30.579 -->
01:41:34.260ways to rip this off poorly. I think it probably
01:41:34.260 -->
01:41:36.960looks easier than it really is. Like the guy
01:41:36.960 -->
01:41:44.010is, like we said before. very very smart about
01:41:44.010 -->
01:41:47.069using or the guys very very smart about using
01:41:47.069 -->
01:41:51.390the medium to make these awesome action sequences
01:41:51.390 -->
01:41:57.189just on a plot character relationship focus note
01:41:57.189 -->
01:42:00.689I think that's like that's what gives these comics
01:42:00.689 -->
01:42:04.270so much energy they have a ton of energy I'm
01:42:04.270 -->
01:42:07.909never bored reading any of them with the spinoffs
01:42:07.909 -->
01:42:09.729a little bit and I've read some of his other
01:42:09.729 -->
01:42:12.420stuff and I didn't like it so much but With these
01:42:12.420 -->
01:42:16.760three things. It's a super fun ride. Yeah, and
01:42:16.760 -->
01:42:19.880I hope he can, like, if he wants to keep putting
01:42:19.880 -->
01:42:22.420these out, I hope they can keep the quality up
01:42:22.420 -->
01:42:23.880and we get more of these stories for sure. And
01:42:23.880 -->
01:42:30.109I do love a good, like, artist -writer duo. Like,
01:42:30.130 -->
01:42:32.489I think that's, that's fun when, like, you, because
01:42:32.489 -->
01:42:34.489you hear a lot of, like, interviews with, like,
01:42:34.489 -->
01:42:36.109writers and artists talking about, like, how
01:42:36.109 -->
01:42:38.630that's, like, that's one of those things, especially
01:42:38.630 -->
01:42:41.170in a medium like comic books where you find,
01:42:41.250 -->
01:42:43.869you find, like, a crew that you like working
01:42:43.869 -->
01:42:46.210with. Like, I could tell, like, they love working
01:42:46.210 -->
01:42:49.829with their letterer, you know, get Dave Stewart
01:42:49.829 -->
01:42:53.750when you can, but, like, when you have, even
01:42:53.750 -->
01:42:58.720in plush and plastic, like. the the colors the
01:42:58.720 -->
01:43:03.699colors are awesome um yeah i think they're they're
01:43:03.699 -->
01:43:07.539all like really cool like fun stories and i think
01:43:07.539 -->
01:43:10.180that them working together it's one of those
01:43:10.180 -->
01:43:13.489things where like i could see it being like one
01:43:13.489 -->
01:43:16.489of those like brew baker phillips or like you
01:43:16.489 -->
01:43:18.810know even like morrison quietly you know like
01:43:18.810 -->
01:43:21.010those things where like you when you hear those
01:43:21.010 -->
01:43:23.310names together you're like okay this is gonna
01:43:23.310 -->
01:43:25.989be some some quality stuff or like something
01:43:25.989 -->
01:43:30.640that i'm gonna check out for sure and they're
01:43:30.640 -->
01:43:33.239just i mean they're like you know in in in terms
01:43:33.239 -->
01:43:35.520of a career like i i feel like they they're they're
01:43:35.520 -->
01:43:37.739hitting their stride you know like um they've
01:43:37.739 -->
01:43:39.680been around together for a long time it's been
01:43:39.680 -->
01:43:42.319like five years i'm i don't know how a comic
01:43:42.319 -->
01:43:44.560book uh duo like i don't know the shelf life
01:43:44.560 -->
01:43:46.720on that but it feels like we'll get more out
01:43:46.720 -->
01:43:49.119of them i hope yeah yeah definitely and i could
01:43:49.119 -->
01:43:51.739see these things working too i mean all like
01:43:51.739 -->
01:43:54.859we're in the era of like so much of this like
01:43:56.399 -->
01:44:03.220comic books as like proof of concept and light
01:44:03.220 -->
01:44:07.260pitches for like shows and movies and things
01:44:07.260 -->
01:44:10.720and this doesn't oh shit this doesn't feel like
01:44:10.720 -->
01:44:13.060like intentional in that way it doesn't feel
01:44:13.060 -->
01:44:15.899like some of the things like milliverse where
01:44:15.899 -->
01:44:17.920it's just like oh we're just making a comic so
01:44:17.920 -->
01:44:22.000that we can turn this into a movie but i could
01:44:22.000 -->
01:44:24.399see this working very well as like an adult animation
01:44:24.399 -->
01:44:27.140something along the lines of like invincible
01:44:27.140 -->
01:44:29.399a hundred percent like that and just like kind
01:44:29.399 -->
01:44:32.000of living in this world because it's fun and
01:44:32.000 -->
01:44:35.560like the characters are endearing and interesting
01:44:35.560 -->
01:44:39.720and like they're just they're just fun to spend
01:44:39.720 -->
01:44:45.100time with which is which is cool yeah all right
01:44:45.100 -->
01:44:48.180final recommendations if you liked this ethan
01:44:48.180 -->
01:44:50.960what would people also um if you like the serial
01:44:50.960 -->
01:44:53.739killer thing i mean there's some great serial
01:44:53.739 -->
01:44:56.560killer comics out there i haven't read nail biter
01:44:56.560 -->
01:44:59.180you have right i've heard good things about nail
01:44:59.180 -->
01:45:02.760bite oh hell yeah oh my god that's a whole other
01:45:02.760 -->
01:45:06.180universe too if you fucking like nail biter we'll
01:45:06.180 -->
01:45:08.000talk about that we could talk about connections
01:45:08.000 -->
01:45:11.920about that another time but yes uh full full
01:45:11.920 -->
01:45:14.180-throated but maybe more self -contained serial
01:45:14.180 -->
01:45:18.060killer stuff uh you got from hell alan moore
01:45:18.060 -->
01:45:21.960awesome the jack the ripper thing predates kind
01:45:21.960 -->
01:45:24.819of the serial killer hype a little bit especially
01:45:24.819 -->
01:45:32.180in comics um also straight toasters fun wacky
01:45:32.180 -->
01:45:37.930with a serial killer angle and also oh recently
01:45:37.930 -->
01:45:40.670behind uh beneath the trees where nobody sees
01:45:40.670 -->
01:45:45.689another like really fun like it's kind of the
01:45:45.689 -->
01:45:48.850opposite of this where like the world is something
01:45:48.850 -->
01:45:51.130weird like though because they're all animals
01:45:51.130 -->
01:45:55.470kind of dark and grim yeah but like it's very
01:45:55.470 -->
01:45:58.489grounded in like real life like consequences
01:45:58.489 -->
01:46:01.369and like the killing and stuff like that yeah
01:46:01.369 -->
01:46:03.529i think it's really fun yeah that one's cool
01:46:03.529 -->
01:46:07.300yeah um the the people's victims have families
01:46:07.300 -->
01:46:09.840i think is the big difference between the two
01:46:09.840 -->
01:46:12.399yeah yeah but yeah overall there's something
01:46:12.399 -->
01:46:15.260like those those are those are some fun ones
01:46:15.260 -->
01:46:18.079if you like the art in this i do also recommend
01:46:18.079 -->
01:46:23.819some maybe oddly stuff like his like invincible
01:46:23.819 -->
01:46:27.460is great um i think he's back on battle beast
01:46:27.460 -->
01:46:32.300um The spin -off. Yeah, I saw that. Also, his
01:46:32.300 -->
01:46:35.899Spider -Man run was pretty cool for some good
01:46:35.899 -->
01:46:40.979Spider -Man stuff. With Nick Spencer, the art
01:46:40.979 -->
01:46:46.340is really fun. I do like that. His Spider -Man
01:46:46.340 -->
01:46:52.119quite a bit. What about you? Anything that you've
01:46:52.119 -->
01:46:56.779read from either Wagner or Hilliard or both that
01:46:56.779 -->
01:47:00.189you think would be good? jumping off point as
01:47:00.189 -->
01:47:04.850always my recommendation will come from um the
01:47:04.850 -->
01:47:07.029wider body of work that i could get my hands
01:47:07.029 -->
01:47:13.329on um if you like um the banter and like the
01:47:13.329 -->
01:47:17.550fun violence without even some of the even as
01:47:17.550 -->
01:47:20.590much as the morality as this one gets into uh
01:47:20.590 -->
01:47:23.630beware the eye of odin that's uh that's doug
01:47:23.630 -->
01:47:29.159wagner um D &D -ish, but with a lot of Nordic
01:47:29.159 -->
01:47:36.039mythology influences. Just fun, romp, kind of
01:47:36.039 -->
01:47:37.840similar where everyone's a little bit goofy,
01:47:37.939 -->
01:47:39.739everyone's over the top, but they're out killing
01:47:39.739 -->
01:47:43.479fucking snow trolls. If you like it more grounded
01:47:43.479 -->
01:47:48.100and you like the crime element of things, 25
01:47:48.100 -->
01:47:52.460to Life, he did that in 2010. Nope. Don't read
01:47:52.460 -->
01:47:54.800that one. That's not what I meant. Don't read
01:47:54.800 -->
01:47:57.81925 to Life. I do not recommend that one. The
01:47:57.819 -->
01:48:01.619Hard Place, 2017. That's kind of like a baby
01:48:01.619 -->
01:48:04.279driver type setup. This guy gets out of jail
01:48:04.279 -->
01:48:07.659after being a getaway driver, tries to get a
01:48:07.659 -->
01:48:09.560bank loan, and then everyone's like, oh shit,
01:48:09.640 -->
01:48:15.420it's DJ. Get him in the car. He's like, no. It's
01:48:15.420 -->
01:48:18.199pretty good. I like that one. Very tight as well,
01:48:18.319 -->
01:48:20.520honestly. Very movie -esque. I like that one
01:48:20.520 -->
01:48:23.899a lot. uh yeah those would be my two top recs
01:48:23.899 -->
01:48:28.739from doug very cool um but yeah like in general
01:48:28.739 -->
01:48:31.140like i think these this was like a really fun
01:48:31.140 -->
01:48:35.960like read and i think these guys they they still
01:48:35.960 -->
01:48:39.930got a lot of road ahead of them i feel like as
01:48:39.930 -->
01:48:42.850like a creative duo and like you were saying
01:48:42.850 -->
01:48:44.470they're just kind of like hitting their stride
01:48:44.470 -->
01:48:47.310and i am kind of excited to see them expand this
01:48:47.310 -->
01:48:50.869world a little bit more and like get a little
01:48:50.869 -->
01:48:53.869bit more from them i would love to like revisit
01:48:53.869 -->
01:48:56.850these characters some more and some other things
01:48:56.850 -->
01:49:01.130backstory on the trash man everybody's begging
01:49:01.130 -->
01:49:05.770for it i loved him so many little things but
01:49:05.770 -->
01:49:12.090yeah Super fun to read. Do you have a send -off
01:49:12.090 -->
01:49:16.250for us? Yes. This has been another episode of
01:49:16.250 -->
01:49:20.430Tales from the Gutters. This has been... This
01:49:20.430 -->
01:49:25.729has been another episode of Tales from the Gutters.
01:49:26.010 -->
01:49:30.609Until next time, stay material, girls. Love it.