[00:08] Sumeria: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Samaria's Harem. I am Samaria Verengill and this is my podcast, Samaria's Harem, where we speak about all things taboo, including spirituality, sexuality, love, relationships, dark energies, and anything else that we need to have deeper, more sensible conversations around to shed light where it's dark. And today I have an amazing guest with me. I have Laavenia Ramaseger. Laavenia is someone I met a few years ago before the pandemic in a wellness center here in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where she was going to be doing a tarot session. And we had a deep conversation at the time about the nadi leaves. I don't know if any one of you have heard about the nadi leaves. These are leaves written by an ancient sage a couple of thousand years ago that people can retrieve for you with your thumbprint. And she had had her leaf red and I had my leaf red, and we were talking about it. And that conversation stayed with me for a long time. So I recently discovered that Laavenia is still in the corporate world despite her deep connection to spirituality. She's a teacher of Egyptian energy modalities and she's a tarot reader. Of course, she teaches tarot as well. She dabbles in plant medicine, and she's definitely deeply still in her corporate career. So, Laavenia, how are you doing at the moment?
[01:47] Laavenia: I'm doing good, Varian. Thank you so much for inviting me to be part of this podcast. It's really nice to talk about things which are authentic, which are not normally discussed. Thank you for that introduction. So, yes, I am still very much part of the corporate. I've been part of the corporate for about 17 years, so I've been in the tech field. So I've been an engineer for 17 years. And this year I actually made the transition while still sitting in the engineering department to bring in a little bit more consciousness and spiritual insight to the corporate. Yes, I stepped out of my technical role and I've moved into something which allows me to do training, people, engagement, bring in insights. I've landed a role which pretty much gives me a lot of free hand, and I've got really good leaders who have that insight. My company recently went through a merger, so I have a role where I can bring in training, development, people engagement, and all of this to my department. And this really allows me to bridge the work I do outside of the corporate. So, like you mentioned, I do tarot readings, energy healing. I work with plant medicine, so I do private consults and I teach classes on energy healing and tarot and spiritual coaching and a few other things. And it's nice because now I can kind of bridge both the worlds because we were having this conversation earlier. A lot of people find it difficult to exist in the corporate, and especially when they start becoming more cognizant of their spiritual nature, their intuitive abilities, they find it difficult because a corporate is not somewhere that allows you to be authentically yourself. And I really wanted to bring in a little bit more authenticity into the corporate world, bring in a little bit more spirituality into the corporate world, because why should spirituality only be available to those who are slowly awakening? Right? Yeah. So that's where I'm currently at. So after work, on weekends, I teach classes, I see clients, and I'm, of course, pursuing my own consciousness journey. But, yes, I also have a corporate job, and the healing modality I work with is predominantly Egyptian. I've also learned Reiki, and there's another healing modality called Satnam Rasayan from the Kundalini yoga tradition. There's a few healing modalities that I've learned, but predominantly the basis. And my fundamentals are Egyptian based, and they were learned from my teacher, Elizabeth Jensen. She's passed on. Now, I think it's been two years since she's passed on, but she was based in Australia, and she made sacred journeys to Egypt. And really, my spiritual journey was one of curiosity because I'm an engineer by profession. Right. So for me, it has always got to be a hypothesis, an experiment, and a was, which in some ways, being an engineer was my glass ceiling at some point in my spiritual growth, because sometimes you always need that proof. But eventually I broke through that glass ceiling. But I really always approached spirituality from, like, a scientific mind. Why? What? Where? Why? And how is this happening? Why is this happening? And that really also helps me bridge the connection between corporate and spirituality. People who are also slowly on their parts. They are finding their intuitive voice. They are finding who they are, but they are also caught in the real world. And that really helped me to bridge, of course, through my own journey. So that's just a little bit about myself.
[05:53] Sumeria: Amazing lavina that you stuck it out for. Did you say 17 years?
[05:58] Laavenia: Yes, 17 years. I was in the tech.
[06:01] Sumeria: Wow. And that's a full time role, right?
[06:04] Laavenia: That's a full time yeah, I was a full time engineer.
[06:07] Sumeria: Okay. That's amazing. I mean, I had a career of 13 years, and at the very end of it, I was like, I just need space in my life, and I needed to recreate and do something completely different. So I still do, actually. I'm still a CFO. It takes up 30% to 40% of my time. Thankfully, I've automated so much, and the rest of the time, I allow myself to expand consciousness for myself before others, because it's a journey. Like, this stuff is very much part of life. And now I bring up the word journey. We were just talking about this just now and how I feel like this word journey has been overused. I also find it becoming a little bit stale, and I'd like to invite you to explain why the word journey actually doesn't apply anymore.
[06:55] Laavenia: Yeah, so, like we were talking about earlier, I think because the word journey has the context that we are striving towards a destination and therefore our end target is always that destination. But I feel like this is life and we are life, right? We are life and we are participating in this life. Why are we constantly looking towards the end goal? So it's happening to us right here, right now. And we got to be present here to whatever that's opening up in our field, whatever the experience is. Maybe like you mentioned, the word journey is overused. But to just call it life, whatever we're experiencing, this is life and this is part of who we are, what we are, and this is what we need to experience at this moment. That's what the whole process is. And to just trust and surrender into that process rather than looking towards an end goal, which we need to become, whatever that may be, whatever we want to call it, but then lightened, conscious, peace, whatever, but just really accepting the present moment for whatever it is.
[08:04] Sumeria: Yes, well said. I so agree. Because we have to let go of that end destination. This is a whole new person that's been birthed through this process. Or rather it's who I always was. Just in between, because of conditioning and biases, there was a blip and I've come back to being who I am now. So that's wonderful. Thank you. Thank you for that perspective. I'd like if you could share with us a little bit more about how you discovered spirituality.
[08:39] Laavenia: Okay, so in my teenage years, I was already part of a spiritual movement. And so my mom actually introduced us to a spiritual movement. And I must tell you that until that time, until that point in life, I felt something was missing. As a child, I was quite intuitive and I felt like, okay, I could perceive more things than normal people and something was missing. So when I was introduced to the spiritual organization, I finally felt like this is a world that actually makes sense and it's authentic and it's real and this is the gap that's missing. Right? So being part of that spiritual organization involved meditation, lots of reading, spiritual material, chanting mantras, all of that. Of course, I was born Hindu, so I did a lot of research and reading and trying to understand spirituality from a Hindu perspective. And the spiritual organization I was part of subscribed to all religions. Right? It was more like a value based system. But what really triggered me to really explore further was I had a really what should I call it? Intense heartbreak. In my early 20s, right, I met a soulmate and it was amazing. And then it ended and my heart got blasted open and there was so much of pain and I was in my early twenty s and had so much faith in spirituality in the universe. And I needed the whys, because I knew that it cannot be, that whatever that happens to us is wrong. But still my mind needed to know, like, why? It's so much pain. How can this be? How can this not happen? And so I predominantly went deeper into spirituality, looking to heal myself, looking to understand, looking for answers. Like I told you before, because I'm an engineer, I have a very logical mind, but there was also a very deep trust and faith in the universe, and I needed to bridge both. And this huge experience, I would say was probably designed into my life to kind of launch me into that spiritual journey. And so it seemed like I had done so many things and I was not fully healed. And I said, something is missing. I've done everything, nothing's working. And a friend of mine had just learned energy healing, and he said, why don't you come in for a healing session? And I'd not heard or understood what a healing session was, and I went for it. And during that session, I could feel energy, I could see colors and all of that. And after that session, I felt something had shifted. And then I went in for a second session, which was like a Karmic release. And I saw things in that session, and there was more shifts and changes. So I really became curious. And that is really what got me into that healing journey. So predominantly, the healing was for myself. I started on the journey seeking for myself, seeking to understand the universe, the unconscious and everything. And eventually, after many, many years, when I had worked enough on myself, I realized other people started looking for me. They started asking questions, they wanted to know a little bit more and then sharing the tools. And then eventually the calling to teach came.
[12:29] Sumeria: Yeah, calling to teach, I see.
[12:34] Laavenia: So the calling to teach was really born out of other people's needs who were at that point in time going through a similar journey. I had gone many years ago, and it didn't even come in the beginning as a calling to teach. It just came as a calling that I had the tools and I had gone through the journey. And my thought process was I spent years on this because in that journey, when I went to seek for myself, it's not just learning energy healing. I went for many, many hardcore spiritual retreats to just lift up those layers and layers that were really holding me down, that was keeping all this misery inside of me, right? And so I took years to do that. And then I saw other people on their journey who were struggling and suffering as well. And I said, they should not have to go through years of it, right? I have the wisdom and I have the tools. Let me give it to them and then their journey can be accelerated. And then they can also go out and share this. It's basically like a spiritual MLM, right? Yeah. So that was the original thinking and thought process. And then eventually more and more people wanted to learn and know. So it became a formal classroom teaching. Yeah, I see.
[13:53] Sumeria: I just wanted to let people know that MLM is multi layered marketing. Right?
[13:59] Laavenia: Yeah.
[14:00] Sumeria: Fascinating Laavenia that's been, how it unfolded step by step. And whilst you're talking, probably looking back at what happened and giving it a summary, I'm sure it wasn't that straightforward and simple at the heartbreak.
[14:20] Laavenia: Yeah, the heartbreak. I think for everyone, that moment of intense pain is needed because the heart needs to be blasted open. You will realize in your moment of tears and pain and anguish that, oh my God, this is so intense and so much compassion will flow through you that you would not want anyone else to experience what you experiencing. And I think everybody's life will be designed such that this kind of intense moments will be included in so that the heart blasts open and light can flow in and love can flow in and compassion can flow in. And it was not just the heartbreak. I also like what you mentioned, corporate world and all of that. I also went through chronic depression because I remember sitting at work one day and looking around and thinking, having that existential crisis, thinking, how are these people coming to work, doing their work, sitting on their laptops, going back at 06:00, living with their families, like that whole hamster on that wheel. And here I am wondering, what is life? What is happening? Why am I feeling this anguish? I went to the bathroom, I cried, and I came out. I went through that whole journey. And like you said, it took many years because we hold on to a lot of conditionings. We hold on to a lot of pain and misery. And when I say misery, it's all these unresolved hopes and dreams and things that maybe could have been love that we did not receive. And things like this, this is really deep stuff, and sometimes some of us don't even understand why we are feeling this way. Right. And to clear that, you need lots of tools. You need self awareness, you need to put the work in. You need to really look inside and see, where is all this heaviness and darkness coming from? Definitely in my first ten years or 15 years, there was really intense work purely on myself. It was never focused outwards towards see, I learned energy healing in my late 20s, but I didn't become a healer until much later because it's impossible to do healing for other people unless you've worked on your own darkness, unless you've faced your own pain. So I took a good six years or seven years before I actually offered healing professionally, before I started teaching professionally, because it's impossible to offer for others what you've not healed in yourself.
[17:05] Sumeria: Oh, true. I totally believe that we can only meet others the extent to which we've met ourselves. And it's so important for us to continue to process ourselves before we hold space for others. Thank you, Laavenia, for that reality check. I call it an authentic reality check on the fact that this journey is a painful yeah, yeah.
[17:27] Laavenia: Because I think it's important to share the dark parts and the parts know, social media and all these things where we share people only share the good stuff and the light and all of that. But I feel like this podcast you're doing, it's really important to have that authentic conversation, to say that this life is mixed. It's a mixed bag. Right? There is love and there is pain, and that will pass through us regardless. Love and pain, it's existential whether we like it or not. But suffering is optional.
[18:04] Sumeria: Yes, well said. Suffering is optional. It's a choice. And when you speak about pain right. Again, we have given pain this misnomer of being something that is really unbearable. You know what I mean? And every time a woman delivers a child, she experiences pain. It's actually so common, it happens so often, and we don't realize the celebration on the other side of it. Every time it happens, it's that canal.
[18:44] Laavenia: Yes, definitely. Because pain is also a very powerful teacher. Of course, like I said, the pain will be part and parcel of our life. But it's a suffering that's optional. And if we just allow that moment to be as it is, allow the pain, breathe through it, then eventually it'll pass because nothing is permanent. But why a lot of us are in anguish and heavy and we feel tired is because a lot of times there's no clarity or there's no realization of what actually the whole process is about. And then we hold that pain. We keep that pain in our bodies. We keep all these unresolved stories. And of course, the ego comes in and there's a whole story of the ego being attached to the stories and needing resolution or needing a situation to be a certain way. Right. So that is where all that pain is held in the body and that misery is kept. And then we feel heavy and then we need to go through this whole journey, like you mentioned the beginning of your podcast, to really come back to ourselves. What we're actually doing is just literally removing the layers and coming back to who we authentically are. Yes.
[20:05] Sumeria: Well said. Coming back to who we authentically are. And I guess would you say that his leaving you was the prompt from the universe to start doing this work then? The greatest prompt from the universe, definitely.
[20:21] Laavenia: I feel that that incident in my life was very beautifully woven and placed in my life at the right time, at the right place. That relationship was amazing. It showed me what love was. But then it also showed me that not everything in life goes the way we want it because there is a plan and we must trust that process. And for me, that whole journey of going to find myself clearing my pain was really to learn and understand, to trust the process, to trust yourself and to trust the universe that everything planned in your life is actually for you and not against you. And if we can just really accept that then the resistance or the fighting against the whole process and plan will stop. Half of the pain and anguish is fighting against what is meant for us. Sometimes we think what's meant for us is only joy and beauty and all of these things. But difficult times are powerful teachers too. And when we accept that, like you mentioned, at the other side of pain, there's a lot of wisdom and courage and that's where the alchemy happens. Transmuting that heaviness into pure light and wisdom.
[21:50] Sumeria: Beautifully said, Laavenia. Thank you. So know when you talk about your experience in the corporate world and that chronic depression, a lot of people experience that anxiety. I have myself when I was in the corporate space. And I was having great huge surges of realizations when I was 24, 25, and I was like, in this space around me in the corporate space. And it was literally almost 24 hours a day sometimes, because I was in audit and we had massive Plc work to do. It was very heavy and I used to look around and go what are we doing, guys? Accounting itself is based on a belief system of things that need to be told as a story. It is a truth and an untruth at so many levels. And I'd sit there and go, this is not life. Like there's a whole way of undoing this and seeing this differently. So today I'm so glad that many of us, it wasn't just me, many of us have left and we're doing different things or some mothers had never gone back to work again or it was a moment that we all needed to realize that we were getting some kind of training. It was an initiation and I see that as a gift. It gave me so much and it gave me some amazing friendships as well. So I'm very grateful for that time. But you're still there, which is amazing.
[23:18] Laavenia: Yes, because I feel there's so many people, especially in this day and age, people are waking up but they're still in the corporate. There's so many intruder souls in the corporate and I feel like, who's doing the work in the corporate? Absolutely.
[23:35] Sumeria: Well said.
[23:36] Laavenia: Definitely people leave because it's not their calling and their soul really needs to follow the calling. But I felt I am called to anchor the light wherever I am. Right. And it definitely would not have been possible for me to do that. If I'd not gone on my journey and healed myself. I mean, I'm still on that journey, I'm still in that process. But I really felt that a little bit more authenticity needs to come into the corporate. Because at the end of the day, we're still human beings at work. We are still human beings and that humanity is lost in the corporate because we come in with a different persona at the corporate. We leave behind the fact that we are children and some people are mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers. We leave that we come into the corporate with this different persona. And all the time people just really want to relate authentically because just because you are in the corporate does not mean you're not human anymore. When you interview someone, to hire someone, you are still using your humanness, you're still using your gut instinct, you're reading their energy. When you're doing your work, when you meet your vendors and contractors, you're still a human being working with that energy. You're still using your gut instincts. But to acknowledge it and to have that present, that's not there in the corporate. But it is really opening up. So like, I just recently did a training for all the managers, bringing in empathetic communication skills, understanding behaviors, bringing in a little bit more EQ, awareness of EQ and those kind of things. And so we don't really have to call it all the woohoo stuff that is there in the new age circle or the spiritual circle. I just felt that why should spirituality only be for those who are seeking it outside in that spiritual or new age context? Because like I said, this is life. We're human beings. It's happening to us right here, right now. Why not just open that and allow that to also be present in the corporate?
[25:49] Sumeria: Absolutely. I mean, this conversation that we're having at the moment is very powerful because the corporate world is a massive space. It's huge and it needs that shift of energy to take place not by people necessarily leaving. Yes, people shifting from inside, people actually starting to do and be different exactly from where they are in their death space. So that the corporates shift. I mean, I come from a time I still remember and I've probably said this story quite a few times now. When I went to learn meditation from Deepak Chopra and I came back to London at the time and all my colleagues were like, you went where? You went to learn what? Meditation? And ten years later, I mean, the wellness industry is massive. It's a billion dollar industry. Everybody's learning meditation and everyone is starting to think differently. They're going back to that authentic self to be able to create longevity at work. Ultimately that's the goal. So you have to allow yourself to be where you need to be. We're all different and we all have, as we spoke about it, just now, I keep using the word journey, but it's a beingness in us. It's a beingness that needs to be expressed wherever we are.
[27:11] Laavenia: Part of this was really setting the intentions, because when we had the merger and the reorg, I actually asked the universe that I asked for this role. I actually created a role. I asked for the role, and I also told the universe I want right, managers who are aligned who will facilitate this. You really got to trust the universe that if you want to do this work, you will be guided and you will be supported. So I did get placed in a section with really supportive managers, and one of the managers, his wife, was actually one of my client and students, so he was really a big champion for me to get the role. So you will see that the universe will really tie the entire thing together. But first you need to do your own work and you need to be ready, and then the support will definitely be there. Yikes.
[28:12] Sumeria: Absolutely. I mean, that inner work part, that owning your own bullshit part is the most important thing because.
[28:22] Laavenia: When you say you want to do the work, you will be tested. You will be tested. Are you true or are you just there from an egoic place to say, oh, I am now a healer and I'm a teacher. Let me save everyone around me. Or can you walk your talk? Can you heal yourself? If you are put to the same test that your clients and students are put to, will you honor your words? And those things will definitely come the moment you say that, I'm willing to do the work universe. And that's why I say healing. I'm definitely on this journey and I have clients coming in and saying, how long will it take before this is over? And I'm like, I'm still on that journey. I'm still going through my own cathartic moments. And this is part and process of life, and the consciousness will always be shifting, right? So there's no end goal to it, but it's just really allowing ourselves to grow with each point in our life.
[29:30] Sumeria: Yeah, I mean, even when you say that, I can feel how present that makes me feel. It's exactly what is happening. We are in the beingness in this moment, and it's all of us. So it's all parts of us together here now. And there are parts of that dynamic within us that has no time, it has no concept of time. It's just this physical body that has an embodiment of time. And even then, science is saying that it's null and void. So time is the greatest illusion. It's all now. Right now.
[30:03] Laavenia: Yes. If we can just be present with ourself, the pain, the misery, all of that goes away in that moment. But what really stops us from being present is some of us carry very heavy material we carry really heavy material. And therefore, this healing, this tarot, this going on retreats, what it's really doing is it's removing enough layers so that you can finally really be present with yourself. If you have so much, sometimes it's so difficult to be present because your material and when I'm talking about your material, I'm talking about your ancestral stuff, your past life stuff, your cultural conditioning, all of that, it's doing you. You are not there. You are not present. It's really in the driver's seat. And what all of these things which you and I are doing, this healing, this tarot, the journeys, the sacred journeys, it's really to remove enough layers where we have enough breathing space to be present. And that presence in the beginning may look like a few seconds or a few minutes, and then we get caught up in our stories again, what did I do yesterday? What I have to cook tomorrow? And all of that. But the more work you do, the longer the presence, the time of your ability to be present will increase. And then eventually you'll find you can also be present in a corporate meeting, or you can also be present while you're doing just about anything, but that requires enough work to be done. And then it's a whole journey, right? Like the ancient saints and Rishis, they sat and meditated for, I don't know, 17, 20 hours a day. And you and I have a whole bunch of things to do, and we can only do what we can with the time we have, right? But we can increase it in slow increments with inner work, with meditation and things like that. And that's why, for lack of a really better word, it's a journey, because you are becoming yourself in slow increments, so you're being a little bit more present. And as we go through all these journeys and remove all the layers and we come back to ourself and we are a little bit more present, that holds the space of presence for others as well.
[32:34] Sumeria: Indeed, I was just on my own there, thinking about those times at work where I would just close my eyes just for a moment, just to feel myself again and then open my eyes and see my laptop and get back into it. And that was such a moment of nourishment. And I also wanted to say the body, right? As women, we do have an advanced body to men. We have a body that actually responds to this stuff a lot more. So we're naturally the people in our families that will be holding space for a lot of this stuff, we can shift so much faster.
[33:18] Laavenia: Absolutely.
[33:20] Sumeria: It's just something to be aware of, especially as women, if you're waking up and around you, you feel like especially because the corporate space is lots of men, right?
[33:28] Laavenia: Yes. And I work in the engineering department, so it's like 90% men, right. You. Are absolutely right in that women are built and wired to be more intuitive. It is our role to hold that energy channel and be more connected. And that's our role, right? And so I'm like, okay, so maybe that's just my role here in the engineering department. It's true.
[33:59] Sumeria: You have this woman. And I remember that you're very curvy, Laavenia, so you definitely hold it all.
[34:05] Laavenia: It's funny. I have my colleagues, managers saying, Laavenia, you're like a woman. I'm a woman. You do not have to envision me as a man to connect better to me. Let me wear my dress. I remember we went for an office trip and then we were going out for some drinks and I came out in a dress and obviously they were in their shots. And sometimes it's a lot for them. There's a woman here and they're like, why are you in a dress? You're just going off. You can be in your shots. I was like, I'm a woman, let me wear my dress.
[34:43] Sumeria: Absolutely.
[34:45] Laavenia: But it's a very subtle thing being a woman. Sometimes it's a reminder for people, like, this is a softer energy or this is a powerful energy that's very intuitive and it's really subtle that they rather connect to that masculine aspect of you rather than connecting to the feminine aspect because it's very uncomfortable for them. It's true.
[35:11] Sumeria: It's true. Because quite often the feminine representations that they would have come across are not the same as what you would represent. The feminine representations that they may have seen in their life would be probably weaker mothers. Mothers who are not able to fully embody their emotions or understand what's happening to them. Or even fathers that may have been going through trauma from their grandmothers or mothers. And it's like various methods of the feminine communicating that was misunderstood. So when there's a strong presence, grounded feminine energy, it's something that they just have never seen before.
[35:53] Laavenia: Yeah. So I think it's important also for people to really do this work on themselves and then just show up in life, in society, to family and friends, even if you're not teaching, even if you're not holding circles or whatever it is, just doing inner work. Because not everyone's life path may be to teach or be a healer in that context. But there are so many women doing this inner work, just being present in the families, in life, in the corporate world. And that just really shifts the energy that in itself is a very healing presence. And that brings awareness to people, right? Because people don't really so much listen to what you say. Rather they watch who you are. They feel your energy. And if that is a very strong presence, there's a lot of love and light and compassion, then they want to know, like, what is she doing? Why is she like that? And why is she at peace with herself all the time? Maybe I need to get me some of that. That's how you bring in a little bit more of that consciousness and awareness.
[37:08] Sumeria: Absolutely. It's how you made others feel that they remember it's not what you said, it's always how you said it and how you made them feel.
[37:18] Laavenia: And there's no shortcut to feeling peace, inner peace. There's no shortcut to being authentically yourself. But absolutely. Doing that inner work, that grueling, hard inner work, which is about looking at all the pain, all the times we've denied ourselves love because of the conditioning, because of the families we are born into, because of the culture we are born into, and really being healers and doing this work. What it actually means is breaking the barriers, right? And that's not easy, but it's really turning around and looking at the darkness inside and then owning that darkness and then being able to hold the light through that for yourself, first and foremost, and then for others.
[38:05] Sumeria: So true. Is blessed. Is blessed, right? There should be more such thoughts happening in there. And we can achieve, we can do so much. Ultimately, the Earth, which is the resource provider, is a feminine energy. And if only we could recognize and honor that as part of the corporate space as well. One day I foresee that people going into the corporate and they're recognizing their connection to the universe and the Earth, and it's happening, in a sense, with all the sustainability work that's going on.
[38:36] Laavenia: Yes, absolutely amazing. I have been fortunate that I worked for a company that really placed its priorities on human values and also environment because the parent company was Norwegian. So they are really obviously on all this sustainability and being environmentally friendly and also placing importance on people and values. So in that sense, I think I was blessed that my values didn't really clash with that of the corporate so much.
[39:16] Sumeria: Amazing. Right place, right time, of course, with all the work that you've done as well. I am curious. You mentioned plant medicine just now. A little bit of a digression here. You work with plant medicine?
[39:34] Laavenia: I do. So, see, part of my whole journey, like I said, I mentioned it was removing layers, right? I've gone through many modalities and I've gone through many sacred journeys. Egyptian. The Kundalini yoga tradition, the Sikh tradition. And I've done. Vipassana. All of those are really powerful and cathartic. And I found the most potent for me was plant medicine. And I'm talking about South American plant medicine. So I've done ayahuasca journeys and I find that the work with plant medicine is really deep because it can rewire your neural pathways. So it allows for neuroplasticity. It allows for neurogenesis. What that means is literally rewiring your brain from older conditionings. And working with plant medicine may not be everybody's calling because it's also very intense and grueling, deep work, but at that point, when I found plant medicine, I was very drawn to shamanic stuff as well. And I was starting to read more on shamanic stuff and learn more on shamanic stuff. And I was called into try plant medicine. And I must say, among all the journeys I've taken, I would place this right at the top of how powerfully cathartic a sacred journey can be. Because in just a span of one or two ceremonies, you could have worked on your material of lifetimes, months, years, stuff you've had in your ancestral lineage. But having said this, as with all tools, be it plant medicine or sound healing or energy healing, there still has to be that sense of responsibility and spiritual fortitude. Meaning you need to have the spiritual responsibility to do the prep work before and show up with whatever it is that you are doing with that responsibility and also follow through afterwards. So for me, I feel plant medicine is something that should be undertaken when there's enough spiritual maturity to get the full benefit of it. Having said that, it's really cathartic very powerful. It helps with PTSD, depression, addictions, and a whole bunch of stuff. So that's something that, if people are interested, they could read up and look into. But it's not legal in most regions in Asia, so you may have to travel out to maybe South America to do. And so that's something to take note of. And there are certain countries where it is legal. But for me, I would definitely say some of the most potent sacred journeys I've taken, definitely with plant medicine. Of course, my trip to Egypt was very powerfully, transformative. Vipassana is another retreat people could look up and try as well. That really removes lots of layers. And not only removes lots of layers, it helps you stay very anchored. Patana, for those who don't know, is a Buddhist breathing technique given by Buddha, and there's a technology to it. And it's like a twelve day retreat where you don't talk and you work with a breathing technique. So I have tried many, many I've even tried retreats where you chant for 17 hours a day, for seven days a week, seven continuous days. Right. So I've tried multiple things, and I definitely will still place plant medicine at the top of my list.
[43:37] Sumeria: Okay. It's very interesting. I have never been drawn to plant medicine. I've heard so much about it. A lot of people talk about it now, and you're right. So I have friends that have been to resorts in Costa Rica. It's legal in Costa Rica, and they do it under the supervision of a doctor. And a it's not it's not cheap. Like, doing it properly is an experience by itself, and it's not at all close to the word cheap. And it's important it's done that way because there's a whole follow up ritual as well that takes place. Yes, but I think possibly because when I was 19 itself, I had this very strong calling to just live in an ashram. And I was in India. It just happened. I was in India, and I had this moment where I felt like this one temple was where I needed to spend the rest of my life. And it was all very clear to me at that point. I honestly felt like I knew nothing about the world. I knew everything and I knew nothing. And that everything that I had learned up until that point was completely pointless. That's what I felt in that one moment.
[44:42] Laavenia: It just felt like that's the moment you've arrived. Because when we understand that we know nothing, then that's the actual starting journey, right? Yeah.
[44:57] Sumeria: I so agree with you. And I remember having this moment outside that temple. I was telling my mom, I need to stay here. No, Mommy, you can go. I need to stay here. I need to stay here. And my mom, you can imagine that, the state that she was in. I'm a 19 year old girl, first time ever in India. How can she leave me? But it really felt like I really felt something very, very intense that I knew that every experience that I was having at that point was not just a moment. There was a huge depth to every moment that we're experiencing. And that depth is sitting on layers and layers of past lives, of conditions, and it's becoming aware of just who we are, which is that depth, that deepest layer, and all of this stuff is sitting on top of it, and we need to disatch from it. And I believe Ayahuasca gives very, very powerful experiences from the point of view of understanding love, understanding the ego attachment.
[45:58] Laavenia: Which yeah, it's very often that people experience ego death in ayahuasca ceremonies, but not just that. In ceremonies, you set an intention on what you want to work on, and the medicine meets you with your intention. So you can set an intention to say, I want to work on my self worth. And in ceremony, everything in you which is blocking you from realizing your true self worth will be shown to you. So that's why it's also such a grueling experience sometimes, right?
[46:33] Sumeria: Very intense.
[46:34] Laavenia: Yeah. But so coming back to you saying you really wanted to be in that ashram, I think all of us who have been to ashrams, me included, at some point, we feel like, oh, my God, I just want to be here forever. There's so much peace. And I feel what we're actually experiencing and why we want to stay there forever is we feel the presence. Right. Because the space and the environment and the spiritual energy in an ashram gives so much room for us to be fully present. And then when we come back to the real world, it's so difficult for us to maintain that presence. So we want that, but I think that the journey or that what we are trying to achieve is to bring back that presence into the daily life. And all the retreats, all the tools, be it the plant medicine or the techniques we learn in the ashrams, the Buddhist retreats, that's really what they're trying to anchor. Of course, when we carry so much and we go to a place where there's so much of solace, like an ashram, you go to jungles in Peru and there's so much peace, you're like, I just want to stay here forever. I don't want to live here forever. I grew up in the you know, the you know, there's a saying which really eludes me now, but it's something know hands in society, know your head in the forest or something like that. But basically what that means is keep you can keep your head in the other world. You can keep your head connected to your guides and the universe and all of that. But at the end of it, the real work is coming back to society, coming back to wherever you are and to be present. And that's the real test and challenge. And that's what all the ascended masters did, right? Like Jesus, Buddha, Prophet Muhammad, whoever it is, they all had to go away for their silent retreats and their trainings and their initiations, but their real tests and challenges were coming back into society and holding that in a society that's literally yes, right, right. Because you and I have had that experience where we sit in this society and look around us, it's complete madness, and it's not in alignment with you in that moment waking up, and that feels really crazy. But then that's the journey or that's what people who sign up to become healers or light workers, that's what we sign up for. That's what we take up. We say that we will go away, we'll work on ourselves, and then we'll come back and try to hold it a little bit more. If we fail, okay? We know there's more work to be done. We go away, we do the work, we come back. And if we feel at any point in time we're spiritual and enlightened, all we need to do is go home to our family and we will find out at all places which we've not grown, because families can be really challenging. Right.
[49:38] Sumeria: Another place where we find out the progress we've made when we drive a car.
[49:43] Laavenia: Yes, absolutely.
[49:48] Sumeria: Oh, man, it's the greatest reality check. Like who you are when you're driving the car. You can be at bliss in meditation, and suddenly when you're behind the car seat, you see who the person really is. So I so agree. When you're in your relationships, when you're with your parents, all of that stuff that was triggering you, is that still triggering you? Have you seen the impact it's having on you? And do you feel more seen as well? I think that's a big one. So thank you. I think that's a powerful perspective right there, from plant medicine to this.
[50:22] Laavenia: Yeah, definitely. How you show up in your relationships, especially your core relationships. Right. Because those are the ones you really signed up to work on, like your parents and your siblings and your spouse and your partners. That's where the most work is. And when you do this work and you do the inner work, the benchmark is really how you show up, how you show up, how you respond, but also how you allow yourself to receive exactly what you said. Are you allowing yourself to receive from those who are around you, whether they're conscious or not? But are you also allowing yourself to receive that affection and that love and just really being present in society and receiving? Nourishment. So being present is not just only in spiritual circles or in ashrams, but can we just be part of life without judgment, just presence, with just anybody and everybody?
[51:22] Sumeria: Indeed. Indeed.
[51:25] Laavenia: Wow.
[51:26] Sumeria: And in this moment, right in this moment, if we let go of the word journey and the whole context of it, we can actually realize our own power just here, right now.
[51:38] Laavenia: Yes. This is power. You and me, we are creating at this moment.
[51:47] Sumeria: Yes. So true. So tell us, what are you working on at the moment? Is there an aspect of your life or something that you're working on? You're studying something.
[51:57] Laavenia: So I've brought in, in the last one and a half years, sound healing, into my energy healing work as well. So I am studying sound healing. I'm studying a little bit of Vedic astrology.
[52:15] Sumeria: Me too. I love it.
[52:17] Laavenia: Yes. But at this moment, I'm juggling a lot of things. I'm actually also studying how to bring in spiritual consciousness into the corporate with the right terminology. So it's a whole bunch of things. And especially like, sound healing is something definitely you can bring into the corporate because the science and technology of it is not connected to anything bizarre. Because, like, Mozart was the forerunner of sound healing, and they used to play Mozart music at the prenatal warts for the Premis who were in the brink of death, and they will see them reviving. So sound healing is really powerful and Cathartic and I've started including it in the last one to two years in my healing sessions. And I find that what I need to do in usually two sessions are now condensed, and I can do the same work. Just using the sound to open the space and allowing the light to flood in, that's really powerful. So sound is something I'm studying at the moment. So that's interesting. With each thing you study, right. It requires lifetimes of study. And that's the same for Vedic astrology as well. That's a really amazing science. And why I wanted to study Vedic astrology was basically your entire life lesson.
[53:51] Sumeria: Well said.
[53:53] Laavenia: Your cost content, like, when you go to get your degree each semester, you sign up and they give you your cost content. Basically, Vedic astrology is that. And if everyone had the cost content, it'll be so much easier to know that, hey, this period, this is the lesson I'm learning, and they can all be focused on that. Having said that, again, Vedic astrology is also something you can study for a few lifetimes and still not fully master it.
[54:20] Sumeria: Oh, my gosh. Well said. It's like the different dimensions to it is powerful. I mean, we already have so much wisdom on how the world is just with astrology alone and the Vedas and the various levels of wisdom that was there thousands of years ago. But to understand it, it's like you need the ten brains of ravan. It's huge.
[54:48] Laavenia: It's huge. And I think for most people taking this path, at any given point of time, you'll be studying 10,000 things at the same time. Yeah.
[55:00] Sumeria: And then it has to show up in your life to really be embodied. So you're like, here we go.
[55:06] Laavenia: I'm also deepening my plant medicine practices, but I think predominantly, if I would choose one thing which or two things, I would say I'm really looking to understand and bring sound into my healings and my life a little bit more strongly and also a little bit more into the corporate. Yeah. Sound, I think, can be really powerful. And it's a tool that everybody has. Everybody has a wise box.
[55:38] Sumeria: True. It's very powerful. We all have a resonance, a vibration. But these days, I mean, gong baths are popular now in most yoga and wellness centers as well. So I don't think it is something that is alien to anyone anymore.
[55:57] Laavenia: Sound has been the fundamental of all religion and ancient traditions because there's always been singing. If you realize there's always been singing in the church, in the Hindu traditions, in the shamanic traditions, in the Muslim traditions, it's always there. The singing is always there. So, yes, definitely sound is something we can study deeper that will bring a lot of healing.
[56:26] Sumeria: I'm excited about everything that you're sharing here and wishing you an amazing process of learning all of this wonderful stuff and also embodying it. I feel like as much as some of this stuff really causes huge shifts in our life, there's a lot of joy in that journey as well, because so much more of who we are becomes exposed.
[56:48] Laavenia: Absolutely. Like, I had so much fun having this conversation. It really didn't feel like a podcast. It was more like a heart to heart conversation with you. Right? Yay. That's the idea.
[56:58] Sumeria: Our copy tiam conversation without coffee. Yours on your side, mine on my side. Thank you so much, Laavenia. And is there anything you'd like to share with us before we end the conversation?
[57:10] Laavenia: No. Thank you for doing mean. It takes up time, energy, and effort. So thank you for inviting me, and thank you for allowing the space for whatever it is to just come up. And I know you're doing this with a lot of other people as well, and it's beautiful work. So thank you so much. And good on you.
[57:29] Sumeria: Thank you. Thank you for seeing me. And on that note, I hope you have a lovely weekend wherever you are, and look forward to our next podcast. I think we already have a topic, right?
[57:40] Laavenia: Yes. Wonderful.
[57:44] Sumeria: Take care, Laavenia. Bye for now. Bye.
[01:47] Laavenia: I'm doing good, Varian. Thank you so much for inviting me to be part of this podcast. It's really nice to talk about things which are authentic, which are not normally discussed. Thank you for that introduction. So, yes, I am still very much part of the corporate. I've been part of the corporate for about 17 years, so I've been in the tech field. So I've been an engineer for 17 years. And this year I actually made the transition while still sitting in the engineering department to bring in a little bit more consciousness and spiritual insight to the corporate. Yes, I stepped out of my technical role and I've moved into something which allows me to do training, people, engagement, bring in insights. I've landed a role which pretty much gives me a lot of free hand, and I've got really good leaders who have that insight. My company recently went through a merger, so I have a role where I can bring in training, development, people engagement, and all of this to my department. And this really allows me to bridge the work I do outside of the corporate. So, like you mentioned, I do tarot readings, energy healing. I work with plant medicine, so I do private consults and I teach classes on energy healing and tarot and spiritual coaching and a few other things. And it's nice because now I can kind of bridge both the worlds because we were having this conversation earlier. A lot of people find it difficult to exist in the corporate, and especially when they start becoming more cognizant of their spiritual nature, their intuitive abilities, they find it difficult because a corporate is not somewhere that allows you to be authentically yourself. And I really wanted to bring in a little bit more authenticity into the corporate world, bring in a little bit more spirituality into the corporate world, because why should spirituality only be available to those who are slowly awakening? Right? Yeah. So that's where I'm currently at. So after work, on weekends, I teach classes, I see clients, and I'm, of course, pursuing my own consciousness journey. But, yes, I also have a corporate job, and the healing modality I work with is predominantly Egyptian. I've also learned Reiki, and there's another healing modality called Satnam Rasayan from the Kundalini yoga tradition. There's a few healing modalities that I've learned, but predominantly the basis. And my fundamentals are Egyptian based, and they were learned from my teacher, Elizabeth Jensen. She's passed on. Now, I think it's been two years since she's passed on, but she was based in Australia, and she made sacred journeys to Egypt. And really, my spiritual journey was one of curiosity because I'm an engineer by profession. Right. So for me, it has always got to be a hypothesis, an experiment, and a was, which in some ways, being an engineer was my glass ceiling at some point in my spiritual growth, because sometimes you always need that proof. But eventually I broke through that glass ceiling. But I really always approached spirituality from, like, a scientific mind. Why? What? Where? Why? And how is this happening? Why is this happening? And that really also helps me bridge the connection between corporate and spirituality. People who are also slowly on their parts. They are finding their intuitive voice. They are finding who they are, but they are also caught in the real world. And that really helped me to bridge, of course, through my own journey. So that's just a little bit about myself.
[05:53] Sumeria: Amazing lavina that you stuck it out for. Did you say 17 years?
[05:58] Laavenia: Yes, 17 years. I was in the tech.
[06:01] Sumeria: Wow. And that's a full time role, right?
[06:04] Laavenia: That's a full time yeah, I was a full time engineer.
[06:07] Sumeria: Okay. That's amazing. I mean, I had a career of 13 years, and at the very end of it, I was like, I just need space in my life, and I needed to recreate and do something completely different. So I still do, actually. I'm still a CFO. It takes up 30% to 40% of my time. Thankfully, I've automated so much, and the rest of the time, I allow myself to expand consciousness for myself before others, because it's a journey. Like, this stuff is very much part of life. And now I bring up the word journey. We were just talking about this just now and how I feel like this word journey has been overused. I also find it becoming a little bit stale, and I'd like to invite you to explain why the word journey actually doesn't apply anymore.
[06:55] Laavenia: Yeah, so, like we were talking about earlier, I think because the word journey has the context that we are striving towards a destination and therefore our end target is always that destination. But I feel like this is life and we are life, right? We are life and we are participating in this life. Why are we constantly looking towards the end goal? So it's happening to us right here, right now. And we got to be present here to whatever that's opening up in our field, whatever the experience is. Maybe like you mentioned, the word journey is overused. But to just call it life, whatever we're experiencing, this is life and this is part of who we are, what we are, and this is what we need to experience at this moment. That's what the whole process is. And to just trust and surrender into that process rather than looking towards an end goal, which we need to become, whatever that may be, whatever we want to call it, but then lightened, conscious, peace, whatever, but just really accepting the present moment for whatever it is.
[08:04] Sumeria: Yes, well said. I so agree. Because we have to let go of that end destination. This is a whole new person that's been birthed through this process. Or rather it's who I always was. Just in between, because of conditioning and biases, there was a blip and I've come back to being who I am now. So that's wonderful. Thank you. Thank you for that perspective. I'd like if you could share with us a little bit more about how you discovered spirituality.
[08:39] Laavenia: Okay, so in my teenage years, I was already part of a spiritual movement. And so my mom actually introduced us to a spiritual movement. And I must tell you that until that time, until that point in life, I felt something was missing. As a child, I was quite intuitive and I felt like, okay, I could perceive more things than normal people and something was missing. So when I was introduced to the spiritual organization, I finally felt like this is a world that actually makes sense and it's authentic and it's real and this is the gap that's missing. Right? So being part of that spiritual organization involved meditation, lots of reading, spiritual material, chanting mantras, all of that. Of course, I was born Hindu, so I did a lot of research and reading and trying to understand spirituality from a Hindu perspective. And the spiritual organization I was part of subscribed to all religions. Right? It was more like a value based system. But what really triggered me to really explore further was I had a really what should I call it? Intense heartbreak. In my early 20s, right, I met a soulmate and it was amazing. And then it ended and my heart got blasted open and there was so much of pain and I was in my early twenty s and had so much faith in spirituality in the universe. And I needed the whys, because I knew that it cannot be, that whatever that happens to us is wrong. But still my mind needed to know, like, why? It's so much pain. How can this be? How can this not happen? And so I predominantly went deeper into spirituality, looking to heal myself, looking to understand, looking for answers. Like I told you before, because I'm an engineer, I have a very logical mind, but there was also a very deep trust and faith in the universe, and I needed to bridge both. And this huge experience, I would say was probably designed into my life to kind of launch me into that spiritual journey. And so it seemed like I had done so many things and I was not fully healed. And I said, something is missing. I've done everything, nothing's working. And a friend of mine had just learned energy healing, and he said, why don't you come in for a healing session? And I'd not heard or understood what a healing session was, and I went for it. And during that session, I could feel energy, I could see colors and all of that. And after that session, I felt something had shifted. And then I went in for a second session, which was like a Karmic release. And I saw things in that session, and there was more shifts and changes. So I really became curious. And that is really what got me into that healing journey. So predominantly, the healing was for myself. I started on the journey seeking for myself, seeking to understand the universe, the unconscious and everything. And eventually, after many, many years, when I had worked enough on myself, I realized other people started looking for me. They started asking questions, they wanted to know a little bit more and then sharing the tools. And then eventually the calling to teach came.
[12:29] Sumeria: Yeah, calling to teach, I see.
[12:34] Laavenia: So the calling to teach was really born out of other people's needs who were at that point in time going through a similar journey. I had gone many years ago, and it didn't even come in the beginning as a calling to teach. It just came as a calling that I had the tools and I had gone through the journey. And my thought process was I spent years on this because in that journey, when I went to seek for myself, it's not just learning energy healing. I went for many, many hardcore spiritual retreats to just lift up those layers and layers that were really holding me down, that was keeping all this misery inside of me, right? And so I took years to do that. And then I saw other people on their journey who were struggling and suffering as well. And I said, they should not have to go through years of it, right? I have the wisdom and I have the tools. Let me give it to them and then their journey can be accelerated. And then they can also go out and share this. It's basically like a spiritual MLM, right? Yeah. So that was the original thinking and thought process. And then eventually more and more people wanted to learn and know. So it became a formal classroom teaching. Yeah, I see.
[13:53] Sumeria: I just wanted to let people know that MLM is multi layered marketing. Right?
[13:59] Laavenia: Yeah.
[14:00] Sumeria: Fascinating Laavenia that's been, how it unfolded step by step. And whilst you're talking, probably looking back at what happened and giving it a summary, I'm sure it wasn't that straightforward and simple at the heartbreak.
[14:20] Laavenia: Yeah, the heartbreak. I think for everyone, that moment of intense pain is needed because the heart needs to be blasted open. You will realize in your moment of tears and pain and anguish that, oh my God, this is so intense and so much compassion will flow through you that you would not want anyone else to experience what you experiencing. And I think everybody's life will be designed such that this kind of intense moments will be included in so that the heart blasts open and light can flow in and love can flow in and compassion can flow in. And it was not just the heartbreak. I also like what you mentioned, corporate world and all of that. I also went through chronic depression because I remember sitting at work one day and looking around and thinking, having that existential crisis, thinking, how are these people coming to work, doing their work, sitting on their laptops, going back at 06:00, living with their families, like that whole hamster on that wheel. And here I am wondering, what is life? What is happening? Why am I feeling this anguish? I went to the bathroom, I cried, and I came out. I went through that whole journey. And like you said, it took many years because we hold on to a lot of conditionings. We hold on to a lot of pain and misery. And when I say misery, it's all these unresolved hopes and dreams and things that maybe could have been love that we did not receive. And things like this, this is really deep stuff, and sometimes some of us don't even understand why we are feeling this way. Right. And to clear that, you need lots of tools. You need self awareness, you need to put the work in. You need to really look inside and see, where is all this heaviness and darkness coming from? Definitely in my first ten years or 15 years, there was really intense work purely on myself. It was never focused outwards towards see, I learned energy healing in my late 20s, but I didn't become a healer until much later because it's impossible to do healing for other people unless you've worked on your own darkness, unless you've faced your own pain. So I took a good six years or seven years before I actually offered healing professionally, before I started teaching professionally, because it's impossible to offer for others what you've not healed in yourself.
[17:05] Sumeria: Oh, true. I totally believe that we can only meet others the extent to which we've met ourselves. And it's so important for us to continue to process ourselves before we hold space for others. Thank you, Laavenia, for that reality check. I call it an authentic reality check on the fact that this journey is a painful yeah, yeah.
[17:27] Laavenia: Because I think it's important to share the dark parts and the parts know, social media and all these things where we share people only share the good stuff and the light and all of that. But I feel like this podcast you're doing, it's really important to have that authentic conversation, to say that this life is mixed. It's a mixed bag. Right? There is love and there is pain, and that will pass through us regardless. Love and pain, it's existential whether we like it or not. But suffering is optional.
[18:04] Sumeria: Yes, well said. Suffering is optional. It's a choice. And when you speak about pain right. Again, we have given pain this misnomer of being something that is really unbearable. You know what I mean? And every time a woman delivers a child, she experiences pain. It's actually so common, it happens so often, and we don't realize the celebration on the other side of it. Every time it happens, it's that canal.
[18:44] Laavenia: Yes, definitely. Because pain is also a very powerful teacher. Of course, like I said, the pain will be part and parcel of our life. But it's a suffering that's optional. And if we just allow that moment to be as it is, allow the pain, breathe through it, then eventually it'll pass because nothing is permanent. But why a lot of us are in anguish and heavy and we feel tired is because a lot of times there's no clarity or there's no realization of what actually the whole process is about. And then we hold that pain. We keep that pain in our bodies. We keep all these unresolved stories. And of course, the ego comes in and there's a whole story of the ego being attached to the stories and needing resolution or needing a situation to be a certain way. Right. So that is where all that pain is held in the body and that misery is kept. And then we feel heavy and then we need to go through this whole journey, like you mentioned the beginning of your podcast, to really come back to ourselves. What we're actually doing is just literally removing the layers and coming back to who we authentically are. Yes.
[20:05] Sumeria: Well said. Coming back to who we authentically are. And I guess would you say that his leaving you was the prompt from the universe to start doing this work then? The greatest prompt from the universe, definitely.
[20:21] Laavenia: I feel that that incident in my life was very beautifully woven and placed in my life at the right time, at the right place. That relationship was amazing. It showed me what love was. But then it also showed me that not everything in life goes the way we want it because there is a plan and we must trust that process. And for me, that whole journey of going to find myself clearing my pain was really to learn and understand, to trust the process, to trust yourself and to trust the universe that everything planned in your life is actually for you and not against you. And if we can just really accept that then the resistance or the fighting against the whole process and plan will stop. Half of the pain and anguish is fighting against what is meant for us. Sometimes we think what's meant for us is only joy and beauty and all of these things. But difficult times are powerful teachers too. And when we accept that, like you mentioned, at the other side of pain, there's a lot of wisdom and courage and that's where the alchemy happens. Transmuting that heaviness into pure light and wisdom.
[21:50] Sumeria: Beautifully said, Laavenia. Thank you. So know when you talk about your experience in the corporate world and that chronic depression, a lot of people experience that anxiety. I have myself when I was in the corporate space. And I was having great huge surges of realizations when I was 24, 25, and I was like, in this space around me in the corporate space. And it was literally almost 24 hours a day sometimes, because I was in audit and we had massive Plc work to do. It was very heavy and I used to look around and go what are we doing, guys? Accounting itself is based on a belief system of things that need to be told as a story. It is a truth and an untruth at so many levels. And I'd sit there and go, this is not life. Like there's a whole way of undoing this and seeing this differently. So today I'm so glad that many of us, it wasn't just me, many of us have left and we're doing different things or some mothers had never gone back to work again or it was a moment that we all needed to realize that we were getting some kind of training. It was an initiation and I see that as a gift. It gave me so much and it gave me some amazing friendships as well. So I'm very grateful for that time. But you're still there, which is amazing.
[23:18] Laavenia: Yes, because I feel there's so many people, especially in this day and age, people are waking up but they're still in the corporate. There's so many intruder souls in the corporate and I feel like, who's doing the work in the corporate? Absolutely.
[23:35] Sumeria: Well said.
[23:36] Laavenia: Definitely people leave because it's not their calling and their soul really needs to follow the calling. But I felt I am called to anchor the light wherever I am. Right. And it definitely would not have been possible for me to do that. If I'd not gone on my journey and healed myself. I mean, I'm still on that journey, I'm still in that process. But I really felt that a little bit more authenticity needs to come into the corporate. Because at the end of the day, we're still human beings at work. We are still human beings and that humanity is lost in the corporate because we come in with a different persona at the corporate. We leave behind the fact that we are children and some people are mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers. We leave that we come into the corporate with this different persona. And all the time people just really want to relate authentically because just because you are in the corporate does not mean you're not human anymore. When you interview someone, to hire someone, you are still using your humanness, you're still using your gut instinct, you're reading their energy. When you're doing your work, when you meet your vendors and contractors, you're still a human being working with that energy. You're still using your gut instincts. But to acknowledge it and to have that present, that's not there in the corporate. But it is really opening up. So like, I just recently did a training for all the managers, bringing in empathetic communication skills, understanding behaviors, bringing in a little bit more EQ, awareness of EQ and those kind of things. And so we don't really have to call it all the woohoo stuff that is there in the new age circle or the spiritual circle. I just felt that why should spirituality only be for those who are seeking it outside in that spiritual or new age context? Because like I said, this is life. We're human beings. It's happening to us right here, right now. Why not just open that and allow that to also be present in the corporate?
[25:49] Sumeria: Absolutely. I mean, this conversation that we're having at the moment is very powerful because the corporate world is a massive space. It's huge and it needs that shift of energy to take place not by people necessarily leaving. Yes, people shifting from inside, people actually starting to do and be different exactly from where they are in their death space. So that the corporates shift. I mean, I come from a time I still remember and I've probably said this story quite a few times now. When I went to learn meditation from Deepak Chopra and I came back to London at the time and all my colleagues were like, you went where? You went to learn what? Meditation? And ten years later, I mean, the wellness industry is massive. It's a billion dollar industry. Everybody's learning meditation and everyone is starting to think differently. They're going back to that authentic self to be able to create longevity at work. Ultimately that's the goal. So you have to allow yourself to be where you need to be. We're all different and we all have, as we spoke about it, just now, I keep using the word journey, but it's a beingness in us. It's a beingness that needs to be expressed wherever we are.
[27:11] Laavenia: Part of this was really setting the intentions, because when we had the merger and the reorg, I actually asked the universe that I asked for this role. I actually created a role. I asked for the role, and I also told the universe I want right, managers who are aligned who will facilitate this. You really got to trust the universe that if you want to do this work, you will be guided and you will be supported. So I did get placed in a section with really supportive managers, and one of the managers, his wife, was actually one of my client and students, so he was really a big champion for me to get the role. So you will see that the universe will really tie the entire thing together. But first you need to do your own work and you need to be ready, and then the support will definitely be there. Yikes.
[28:12] Sumeria: Absolutely. I mean, that inner work part, that owning your own bullshit part is the most important thing because.
[28:22] Laavenia: When you say you want to do the work, you will be tested. You will be tested. Are you true or are you just there from an egoic place to say, oh, I am now a healer and I'm a teacher. Let me save everyone around me. Or can you walk your talk? Can you heal yourself? If you are put to the same test that your clients and students are put to, will you honor your words? And those things will definitely come the moment you say that, I'm willing to do the work universe. And that's why I say healing. I'm definitely on this journey and I have clients coming in and saying, how long will it take before this is over? And I'm like, I'm still on that journey. I'm still going through my own cathartic moments. And this is part and process of life, and the consciousness will always be shifting, right? So there's no end goal to it, but it's just really allowing ourselves to grow with each point in our life.
[29:30] Sumeria: Yeah, I mean, even when you say that, I can feel how present that makes me feel. It's exactly what is happening. We are in the beingness in this moment, and it's all of us. So it's all parts of us together here now. And there are parts of that dynamic within us that has no time, it has no concept of time. It's just this physical body that has an embodiment of time. And even then, science is saying that it's null and void. So time is the greatest illusion. It's all now. Right now.
[30:03] Laavenia: Yes. If we can just be present with ourself, the pain, the misery, all of that goes away in that moment. But what really stops us from being present is some of us carry very heavy material we carry really heavy material. And therefore, this healing, this tarot, this going on retreats, what it's really doing is it's removing enough layers so that you can finally really be present with yourself. If you have so much, sometimes it's so difficult to be present because your material and when I'm talking about your material, I'm talking about your ancestral stuff, your past life stuff, your cultural conditioning, all of that, it's doing you. You are not there. You are not present. It's really in the driver's seat. And what all of these things which you and I are doing, this healing, this tarot, the journeys, the sacred journeys, it's really to remove enough layers where we have enough breathing space to be present. And that presence in the beginning may look like a few seconds or a few minutes, and then we get caught up in our stories again, what did I do yesterday? What I have to cook tomorrow? And all of that. But the more work you do, the longer the presence, the time of your ability to be present will increase. And then eventually you'll find you can also be present in a corporate meeting, or you can also be present while you're doing just about anything, but that requires enough work to be done. And then it's a whole journey, right? Like the ancient saints and Rishis, they sat and meditated for, I don't know, 17, 20 hours a day. And you and I have a whole bunch of things to do, and we can only do what we can with the time we have, right? But we can increase it in slow increments with inner work, with meditation and things like that. And that's why, for lack of a really better word, it's a journey, because you are becoming yourself in slow increments, so you're being a little bit more present. And as we go through all these journeys and remove all the layers and we come back to ourself and we are a little bit more present, that holds the space of presence for others as well.
[32:34] Sumeria: Indeed, I was just on my own there, thinking about those times at work where I would just close my eyes just for a moment, just to feel myself again and then open my eyes and see my laptop and get back into it. And that was such a moment of nourishment. And I also wanted to say the body, right? As women, we do have an advanced body to men. We have a body that actually responds to this stuff a lot more. So we're naturally the people in our families that will be holding space for a lot of this stuff, we can shift so much faster.
[33:18] Laavenia: Absolutely.
[33:20] Sumeria: It's just something to be aware of, especially as women, if you're waking up and around you, you feel like especially because the corporate space is lots of men, right?
[33:28] Laavenia: Yes. And I work in the engineering department, so it's like 90% men, right. You. Are absolutely right in that women are built and wired to be more intuitive. It is our role to hold that energy channel and be more connected. And that's our role, right? And so I'm like, okay, so maybe that's just my role here in the engineering department. It's true.
[33:59] Sumeria: You have this woman. And I remember that you're very curvy, Laavenia, so you definitely hold it all.
[34:05] Laavenia: It's funny. I have my colleagues, managers saying, Laavenia, you're like a woman. I'm a woman. You do not have to envision me as a man to connect better to me. Let me wear my dress. I remember we went for an office trip and then we were going out for some drinks and I came out in a dress and obviously they were in their shots. And sometimes it's a lot for them. There's a woman here and they're like, why are you in a dress? You're just going off. You can be in your shots. I was like, I'm a woman, let me wear my dress.
[34:43] Sumeria: Absolutely.
[34:45] Laavenia: But it's a very subtle thing being a woman. Sometimes it's a reminder for people, like, this is a softer energy or this is a powerful energy that's very intuitive and it's really subtle that they rather connect to that masculine aspect of you rather than connecting to the feminine aspect because it's very uncomfortable for them. It's true.
[35:11] Sumeria: It's true. Because quite often the feminine representations that they would have come across are not the same as what you would represent. The feminine representations that they may have seen in their life would be probably weaker mothers. Mothers who are not able to fully embody their emotions or understand what's happening to them. Or even fathers that may have been going through trauma from their grandmothers or mothers. And it's like various methods of the feminine communicating that was misunderstood. So when there's a strong presence, grounded feminine energy, it's something that they just have never seen before.
[35:53] Laavenia: Yeah. So I think it's important also for people to really do this work on themselves and then just show up in life, in society, to family and friends, even if you're not teaching, even if you're not holding circles or whatever it is, just doing inner work. Because not everyone's life path may be to teach or be a healer in that context. But there are so many women doing this inner work, just being present in the families, in life, in the corporate world. And that just really shifts the energy that in itself is a very healing presence. And that brings awareness to people, right? Because people don't really so much listen to what you say. Rather they watch who you are. They feel your energy. And if that is a very strong presence, there's a lot of love and light and compassion, then they want to know, like, what is she doing? Why is she like that? And why is she at peace with herself all the time? Maybe I need to get me some of that. That's how you bring in a little bit more of that consciousness and awareness.
[37:08] Sumeria: Absolutely. It's how you made others feel that they remember it's not what you said, it's always how you said it and how you made them feel.
[37:18] Laavenia: And there's no shortcut to feeling peace, inner peace. There's no shortcut to being authentically yourself. But absolutely. Doing that inner work, that grueling, hard inner work, which is about looking at all the pain, all the times we've denied ourselves love because of the conditioning, because of the families we are born into, because of the culture we are born into, and really being healers and doing this work. What it actually means is breaking the barriers, right? And that's not easy, but it's really turning around and looking at the darkness inside and then owning that darkness and then being able to hold the light through that for yourself, first and foremost, and then for others.
[38:05] Sumeria: So true. Is blessed. Is blessed, right? There should be more such thoughts happening in there. And we can achieve, we can do so much. Ultimately, the Earth, which is the resource provider, is a feminine energy. And if only we could recognize and honor that as part of the corporate space as well. One day I foresee that people going into the corporate and they're recognizing their connection to the universe and the Earth, and it's happening, in a sense, with all the sustainability work that's going on.
[38:36] Laavenia: Yes, absolutely amazing. I have been fortunate that I worked for a company that really placed its priorities on human values and also environment because the parent company was Norwegian. So they are really obviously on all this sustainability and being environmentally friendly and also placing importance on people and values. So in that sense, I think I was blessed that my values didn't really clash with that of the corporate so much.
[39:16] Sumeria: Amazing. Right place, right time, of course, with all the work that you've done as well. I am curious. You mentioned plant medicine just now. A little bit of a digression here. You work with plant medicine?
[39:34] Laavenia: I do. So, see, part of my whole journey, like I said, I mentioned it was removing layers, right? I've gone through many modalities and I've gone through many sacred journeys. Egyptian. The Kundalini yoga tradition, the Sikh tradition. And I've done. Vipassana. All of those are really powerful and cathartic. And I found the most potent for me was plant medicine. And I'm talking about South American plant medicine. So I've done ayahuasca journeys and I find that the work with plant medicine is really deep because it can rewire your neural pathways. So it allows for neuroplasticity. It allows for neurogenesis. What that means is literally rewiring your brain from older conditionings. And working with plant medicine may not be everybody's calling because it's also very intense and grueling, deep work, but at that point, when I found plant medicine, I was very drawn to shamanic stuff as well. And I was starting to read more on shamanic stuff and learn more on shamanic stuff. And I was called into try plant medicine. And I must say, among all the journeys I've taken, I would place this right at the top of how powerfully cathartic a sacred journey can be. Because in just a span of one or two ceremonies, you could have worked on your material of lifetimes, months, years, stuff you've had in your ancestral lineage. But having said this, as with all tools, be it plant medicine or sound healing or energy healing, there still has to be that sense of responsibility and spiritual fortitude. Meaning you need to have the spiritual responsibility to do the prep work before and show up with whatever it is that you are doing with that responsibility and also follow through afterwards. So for me, I feel plant medicine is something that should be undertaken when there's enough spiritual maturity to get the full benefit of it. Having said that, it's really cathartic very powerful. It helps with PTSD, depression, addictions, and a whole bunch of stuff. So that's something that, if people are interested, they could read up and look into. But it's not legal in most regions in Asia, so you may have to travel out to maybe South America to do. And so that's something to take note of. And there are certain countries where it is legal. But for me, I would definitely say some of the most potent sacred journeys I've taken, definitely with plant medicine. Of course, my trip to Egypt was very powerfully, transformative. Vipassana is another retreat people could look up and try as well. That really removes lots of layers. And not only removes lots of layers, it helps you stay very anchored. Patana, for those who don't know, is a Buddhist breathing technique given by Buddha, and there's a technology to it. And it's like a twelve day retreat where you don't talk and you work with a breathing technique. So I have tried many, many I've even tried retreats where you chant for 17 hours a day, for seven days a week, seven continuous days. Right. So I've tried multiple things, and I definitely will still place plant medicine at the top of my list.
[43:37] Sumeria: Okay. It's very interesting. I have never been drawn to plant medicine. I've heard so much about it. A lot of people talk about it now, and you're right. So I have friends that have been to resorts in Costa Rica. It's legal in Costa Rica, and they do it under the supervision of a doctor. And a it's not it's not cheap. Like, doing it properly is an experience by itself, and it's not at all close to the word cheap. And it's important it's done that way because there's a whole follow up ritual as well that takes place. Yes, but I think possibly because when I was 19 itself, I had this very strong calling to just live in an ashram. And I was in India. It just happened. I was in India, and I had this moment where I felt like this one temple was where I needed to spend the rest of my life. And it was all very clear to me at that point. I honestly felt like I knew nothing about the world. I knew everything and I knew nothing. And that everything that I had learned up until that point was completely pointless. That's what I felt in that one moment.
[44:42] Laavenia: It just felt like that's the moment you've arrived. Because when we understand that we know nothing, then that's the actual starting journey, right? Yeah.
[44:57] Sumeria: I so agree with you. And I remember having this moment outside that temple. I was telling my mom, I need to stay here. No, Mommy, you can go. I need to stay here. I need to stay here. And my mom, you can imagine that, the state that she was in. I'm a 19 year old girl, first time ever in India. How can she leave me? But it really felt like I really felt something very, very intense that I knew that every experience that I was having at that point was not just a moment. There was a huge depth to every moment that we're experiencing. And that depth is sitting on layers and layers of past lives, of conditions, and it's becoming aware of just who we are, which is that depth, that deepest layer, and all of this stuff is sitting on top of it, and we need to disatch from it. And I believe Ayahuasca gives very, very powerful experiences from the point of view of understanding love, understanding the ego attachment.
[45:58] Laavenia: Which yeah, it's very often that people experience ego death in ayahuasca ceremonies, but not just that. In ceremonies, you set an intention on what you want to work on, and the medicine meets you with your intention. So you can set an intention to say, I want to work on my self worth. And in ceremony, everything in you which is blocking you from realizing your true self worth will be shown to you. So that's why it's also such a grueling experience sometimes, right?
[46:33] Sumeria: Very intense.
[46:34] Laavenia: Yeah. But so coming back to you saying you really wanted to be in that ashram, I think all of us who have been to ashrams, me included, at some point, we feel like, oh, my God, I just want to be here forever. There's so much peace. And I feel what we're actually experiencing and why we want to stay there forever is we feel the presence. Right. Because the space and the environment and the spiritual energy in an ashram gives so much room for us to be fully present. And then when we come back to the real world, it's so difficult for us to maintain that presence. So we want that, but I think that the journey or that what we are trying to achieve is to bring back that presence into the daily life. And all the retreats, all the tools, be it the plant medicine or the techniques we learn in the ashrams, the Buddhist retreats, that's really what they're trying to anchor. Of course, when we carry so much and we go to a place where there's so much of solace, like an ashram, you go to jungles in Peru and there's so much peace, you're like, I just want to stay here forever. I don't want to live here forever. I grew up in the you know, the you know, there's a saying which really eludes me now, but it's something know hands in society, know your head in the forest or something like that. But basically what that means is keep you can keep your head in the other world. You can keep your head connected to your guides and the universe and all of that. But at the end of it, the real work is coming back to society, coming back to wherever you are and to be present. And that's the real test and challenge. And that's what all the ascended masters did, right? Like Jesus, Buddha, Prophet Muhammad, whoever it is, they all had to go away for their silent retreats and their trainings and their initiations, but their real tests and challenges were coming back into society and holding that in a society that's literally yes, right, right. Because you and I have had that experience where we sit in this society and look around us, it's complete madness, and it's not in alignment with you in that moment waking up, and that feels really crazy. But then that's the journey or that's what people who sign up to become healers or light workers, that's what we sign up for. That's what we take up. We say that we will go away, we'll work on ourselves, and then we'll come back and try to hold it a little bit more. If we fail, okay? We know there's more work to be done. We go away, we do the work, we come back. And if we feel at any point in time we're spiritual and enlightened, all we need to do is go home to our family and we will find out at all places which we've not grown, because families can be really challenging. Right.
[49:38] Sumeria: Another place where we find out the progress we've made when we drive a car.
[49:43] Laavenia: Yes, absolutely.
[49:48] Sumeria: Oh, man, it's the greatest reality check. Like who you are when you're driving the car. You can be at bliss in meditation, and suddenly when you're behind the car seat, you see who the person really is. So I so agree. When you're in your relationships, when you're with your parents, all of that stuff that was triggering you, is that still triggering you? Have you seen the impact it's having on you? And do you feel more seen as well? I think that's a big one. So thank you. I think that's a powerful perspective right there, from plant medicine to this.
[50:22] Laavenia: Yeah, definitely. How you show up in your relationships, especially your core relationships. Right. Because those are the ones you really signed up to work on, like your parents and your siblings and your spouse and your partners. That's where the most work is. And when you do this work and you do the inner work, the benchmark is really how you show up, how you show up, how you respond, but also how you allow yourself to receive exactly what you said. Are you allowing yourself to receive from those who are around you, whether they're conscious or not? But are you also allowing yourself to receive that affection and that love and just really being present in society and receiving? Nourishment. So being present is not just only in spiritual circles or in ashrams, but can we just be part of life without judgment, just presence, with just anybody and everybody?
[51:22] Sumeria: Indeed. Indeed.
[51:25] Laavenia: Wow.
[51:26] Sumeria: And in this moment, right in this moment, if we let go of the word journey and the whole context of it, we can actually realize our own power just here, right now.
[51:38] Laavenia: Yes. This is power. You and me, we are creating at this moment.
[51:47] Sumeria: Yes. So true. So tell us, what are you working on at the moment? Is there an aspect of your life or something that you're working on? You're studying something.
[51:57] Laavenia: So I've brought in, in the last one and a half years, sound healing, into my energy healing work as well. So I am studying sound healing. I'm studying a little bit of Vedic astrology.
[52:15] Sumeria: Me too. I love it.
[52:17] Laavenia: Yes. But at this moment, I'm juggling a lot of things. I'm actually also studying how to bring in spiritual consciousness into the corporate with the right terminology. So it's a whole bunch of things. And especially like, sound healing is something definitely you can bring into the corporate because the science and technology of it is not connected to anything bizarre. Because, like, Mozart was the forerunner of sound healing, and they used to play Mozart music at the prenatal warts for the Premis who were in the brink of death, and they will see them reviving. So sound healing is really powerful and Cathartic and I've started including it in the last one to two years in my healing sessions. And I find that what I need to do in usually two sessions are now condensed, and I can do the same work. Just using the sound to open the space and allowing the light to flood in, that's really powerful. So sound is something I'm studying at the moment. So that's interesting. With each thing you study, right. It requires lifetimes of study. And that's the same for Vedic astrology as well. That's a really amazing science. And why I wanted to study Vedic astrology was basically your entire life lesson.
[53:51] Sumeria: Well said.
[53:53] Laavenia: Your cost content, like, when you go to get your degree each semester, you sign up and they give you your cost content. Basically, Vedic astrology is that. And if everyone had the cost content, it'll be so much easier to know that, hey, this period, this is the lesson I'm learning, and they can all be focused on that. Having said that, again, Vedic astrology is also something you can study for a few lifetimes and still not fully master it.
[54:20] Sumeria: Oh, my gosh. Well said. It's like the different dimensions to it is powerful. I mean, we already have so much wisdom on how the world is just with astrology alone and the Vedas and the various levels of wisdom that was there thousands of years ago. But to understand it, it's like you need the ten brains of ravan. It's huge.
[54:48] Laavenia: It's huge. And I think for most people taking this path, at any given point of time, you'll be studying 10,000 things at the same time. Yeah.
[55:00] Sumeria: And then it has to show up in your life to really be embodied. So you're like, here we go.
[55:06] Laavenia: I'm also deepening my plant medicine practices, but I think predominantly, if I would choose one thing which or two things, I would say I'm really looking to understand and bring sound into my healings and my life a little bit more strongly and also a little bit more into the corporate. Yeah. Sound, I think, can be really powerful. And it's a tool that everybody has. Everybody has a wise box.
[55:38] Sumeria: True. It's very powerful. We all have a resonance, a vibration. But these days, I mean, gong baths are popular now in most yoga and wellness centers as well. So I don't think it is something that is alien to anyone anymore.
[55:57] Laavenia: Sound has been the fundamental of all religion and ancient traditions because there's always been singing. If you realize there's always been singing in the church, in the Hindu traditions, in the shamanic traditions, in the Muslim traditions, it's always there. The singing is always there. So, yes, definitely sound is something we can study deeper that will bring a lot of healing.
[56:26] Sumeria: I'm excited about everything that you're sharing here and wishing you an amazing process of learning all of this wonderful stuff and also embodying it. I feel like as much as some of this stuff really causes huge shifts in our life, there's a lot of joy in that journey as well, because so much more of who we are becomes exposed.
[56:48] Laavenia: Absolutely. Like, I had so much fun having this conversation. It really didn't feel like a podcast. It was more like a heart to heart conversation with you. Right? Yay. That's the idea.
[56:58] Sumeria: Our copy tiam conversation without coffee. Yours on your side, mine on my side. Thank you so much, Laavenia. And is there anything you'd like to share with us before we end the conversation?
[57:10] Laavenia: No. Thank you for doing mean. It takes up time, energy, and effort. So thank you for inviting me, and thank you for allowing the space for whatever it is to just come up. And I know you're doing this with a lot of other people as well, and it's beautiful work. So thank you so much. And good on you.
[57:29] Sumeria: Thank you. Thank you for seeing me. And on that note, I hope you have a lovely weekend wherever you are, and look forward to our next podcast. I think we already have a topic, right?
[57:40] Laavenia: Yes. Wonderful.
[57:44] Sumeria: Take care, Laavenia. Bye for now. Bye.
