Stubby Talks Transformation | Episode 11: Mike Gillespie

In this episode of Stubby Talks Transformation, Dave Stubberfield sits down with organisational psychologist Mike Gillespie to explore what real change looks like inside organisations — and inside ourselves. The conversation centres on the idea that transformation begins with perspective: when people can step back, see the bigger picture, and understand the human side of change, they’re far more likely to move from resistance to commitment.

Mike explains how organisational psychology applies core psychological principles to the workplace, helping people work better together while also improving business outcomes. He introduces the concept behind his book Distancing, co-authored with Captain David Marquet, which focuses on psychological distancing as a practical tool for better decision-making. 

The discussion covers self-distancing, third-person reflection, construal level theory, and why getting out of your own head can lead to clearer thinking, better relationships, and stronger leadership.

The episode also digs into change management, with Mike emphasising that top-down change rarely works long term unless leaders first understand employees’ fears, motivations, and perspectives. He shares personal reflections on divorce, self-awareness, parenting, and the hard-earned lessons that came from realising how easily people can fool themselves into thinking they’re doing better than they really are. Throughout the conversation, one message stands out: if you want lasting transformation, slow down, listen deeply, and understand the people involved before trying to move them forward.

Key Topics:

• What organisational psychology is and why it matters
• Why work is a powerful place to create meaningful change
• The difference between helping people one-on-one and helping at scale
• The value of starting from curiosity, not certainty, in your career
• The book Distancing and the idea of psychological distancing
• Using third-person language to gain clarity and perspective
• Self-awareness, ego, and how we rationalise our own behaviour
• How perspective shapes transformation at both personal and organisational levels
• Why employees resist change when they don’t feel understood
• The importance of purpose, mission, and values in change leadership
• The importance of slowing down and understanding your people before leading change

Key Takeaways:

• People don’t usually resist change itself — they resist change they don’t understand.
• Perspective is often the first real step in transformation.
• Self-awareness is not just a personal skill; it is a leadership tool.
• Compliance may get short-term results, but commitment creates lasting change.

• • The best leaders listen before they act.