speaker-0: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Stronger School Podcast. I'm Trip Cousera from Power School. Today I have the pleasure of being joined by Dr. Julie Evans, who is the CEO of Project Tomorrow. Julie, thanks for joining us.
speaker-1: You so much for having me, Trip. I'm excited for us to have this conversation today.
speaker-0: Absolutely. Now, ⁓ full disclosure for everyone, ⁓ Power School and Project Tomorrow have been partnered on on a few projects and and a few going forward. And we're gonna get a little bit into that ⁓ a little bit later in the conversation. And and I'm I'm really excited about this work that we're that we're cooking up, Julie. ⁓ but yeah, before we get into that, maybe just provide everyone with a little bit of ⁓ if if they're not familiar with you and your work, ⁓ I'd love to What's the origin story of ⁓ Dr. Julie Evans and and Project Tomorrow? You guys have been a a stalwart in in the industry for quite a while.
speaker-1: You so much, Tripp. ⁓ so Project Tomorrow has been supporting K-12 education since 1996. That precedes my involvement, to be quite honest with you. ⁓ I've been with the organization for a long time. ⁓ and during that time, we have been 100% focused in on helping K-12 schools and districts understand how to use data and research more effectively. To impact the very best decisions that they can make to improve student learning and teacher effectiveness. Now, the interesting origin story for Julie Evans is my background is in the tech industry. So came up through the tech industry in sales and marketing and then migrated over to do some research. I was with two ed tech startups and then joined the crazy world of nonprofit research after many years in that first career path. And so it's really interesting for me to sort of marry the ⁓ ed tech industry perspective with the education research nonprofit side of the house and bring those sort of insights into our work. So from a project tomorrow standpoint, you know, we're we talk a lot, Trip, and I know this you'll appreciate this, about how do you translate research into practice? Like, how do you take all these interesting research findings and Project Tomorrow does a lot of research, but really make it actionable for school and district leaders to be able to use those insights, that data, that research, to create better learning experiences for students. That's really the thing that gets me up in the morning. How do we do that more effectively? And it's been great over the last couple of years to be partnering with Power School who share that same vision.
speaker-0: Yeah, I love that. Now, like speak up. That's been kind of the cornerstone project of Project Tomorrow. ⁓ before we kind of get into anything else, like tell tell us a little bit about that, about that work. I know that's been ⁓ the the ⁓ lifeblood, if you will, of of Project Tomorrow for quite a while a while and and and ⁓ a project that many folks kind of associate with with the organization.
speaker-1: Yeah, you're absolutely right, Trip. ⁓ we're probably best well known for the Speak Up Research Project, which we started in 2003, a long time ago, ⁓ to first initially just collect the voices of students and see what students were doing in 2003 around technology. Really interesting side story. I was interviewed after that first year of the Speak Up Research Project on CNN, and one of the key findings that they were really fixated on. Was that students said their number one mobile device that they used extensively was a CD burner. Who can remember those, right? And so how times have changed since 2003. But every year, what we do is we create a set of national surveys that can be used by any K-12 school or district to collect feedback from your stakeholders. It's a service that we provide to schools and districts. Schools and districts get back their own live local data and state level and national level comparative data, which provides context. And that's the real heart of this. You know, anyone can do a survey and say 50% of my students say this, or 80% of my teachers believe this, or here's what 65% of parents say. But if you don't have the context of what that means relative to other schools in your or districts in your state. or nationwide, it just is an interesting data statistic. And again, back to that point I made about the real focus on creating actionable knowledge, the context helps to do that. We've been thrilled to have been ⁓ doing the speak up research project for 26 years, coming in up on our 27th starting in October. And every year it changes. You know, the qu we're no longer asking about C V burners, just so that everybody understands. ⁓ but the questions have evolved to meet the types of issues that school and district leaders are facing relative to technology use. And so it's always been very interesting to look at the findings, but I'm always thrilled when I hear from school and district leaders that they use it. They use those data reports, they use our infographics, they use those findings to inform their efforts. And the same for state policymakers as well as federal policymakers. So that's a that's a good statement to the value I think of the speak up research being a national research project.
speaker-0: Yeah, amazing. ⁓ okay, well, I want to talk a little bit about because this super interesting time to have ⁓ you know, a whole bunch of longitudinal data about the way students are interacting with technology. So let's let's let's talk a little bit about that in just a moment. But yeah, I'm gonna ⁓ let broaden out for a minute. you know, kind of thinking about the longevity of of of project tomorrow, like what are the I guess, you know, what are the things that you're that you feel like are ⁓ recurring issues, the more they change, the more they stay the same. And what's the biggest, you know, shift that you're observing over that span of time?
speaker-1: Well those are are two interesting ⁓ sort of almost conflicting pivotal points, right? So what do we see as being very consistent over time? I would say two things. ⁓ students are very interested in using technology to support their learning, but they think of technology as a utility, not as something ⁓ to drive engagement. or to be fun to use in school, they actually think about it from a very purposeful perspective, that technology gives them the opportunity to be more efficient, more effective learners, and to have access to resources that transcend what might be limitations in their school, in their classroom, even their teacher's knowledge, or in their community. That's been a recurring message from the very beginning. Now the the tools that the students have used have changed over time. But that strong ethos to using technology for purposeful reasons, ⁓ whether that is for learning or for friend engagement or to learn about what's happening in the world outside of academics, that has stayed very consistent. One of the other things has stayed that has stayed very consistent is ⁓ teachers still need more support in how to use technology effectively. They told us that back in 2004, 2005, 2006. They're still saying it in 2023, 24, 25, 26. They're still looking for additional support to understand how to use technology more effectively. Now, what have we seen from our data set that has changed over time? We have seen definitely increased interest on the part of parents to better understand the learning experience that their students are having in school. And we've also seen a change in parents' perspective from their again point of view as to the purpose of high quality education. Parents increasingly over the last actually 10 to 15 years have told us that they see the value of their child's education and helping them create skills that they need to be successful in the future. That's not to say the parents don't care or care about good ⁓ grammar skills or history. or making sure their students know how to multiply fractions, but they're very much more focused in on that college and career readiness component of their child's education. And I think that has been a significant shift that we've seen in our data over those, again, 23, almost 24 years of doing this work. ⁓ It's really interesting to also see that the roles in districts have evolved over time. You know, we initially would only pull chief information officers and chief technology officers from the district office about what was happening with technology, but increasingly now we see that technology is part of the ecosystem of a district. And so getting the views of superintendents, chief academic officers, ⁓ even HR directors and directors of communications are equally important in understanding the real world of how technology is impacting. not just student learning, but district operations as well. And so that has been a change that we've seen over time. So I gave you two things that were consistent and two changes.
speaker-0: Yeah, super interesting. ⁓ so many threads to pull on there. I think the first one just as a as an observation, I think there's a it it's interesting that in many ways districts and schools have a lot of technology. We hear that all the time of the kind of the tool explosion bloat, maybe that's happening. But also I think an argument that in some ways technology isn't you know, as utilized, ⁓ and we're talking about different types of technology here, right? It's not all the same. some of it like a lot of the explosion has been, I think, in some of the learning tools and so forth versus, you know, as a as a percentage of there's some data that, you know, as a percentage of kind of the Oprah operational budget K twelve districts are fairly low when you compare it with other industries. So it's an interesting interesting observation that ⁓ You know, you're starting to hear more, I guess, kind of ⁓ technology awareness, technology IQ amongst those business uners you users ⁓ over time. So really interesting observation and one that ⁓ obviously we're we're very kind of keen to to follow. Maybe we'll talk a little bit more about that. interested in what you're in the given the the current, I guess, environment conversation on particularly AI, you know, this which which we can't we can't escape conversations around around AI anywhere. but also the the workforce learning, ⁓ the workforce pathways conversation and and career and and college readiness, which I I see those two things as ⁓ you know not obviously linked, but there's a strong connection ⁓ more broadly as ⁓ as the conversation on AI is bringing up a lot of conversation on future ready workforce and and ⁓ students that are prepared for what that what that means. That means that they, you know, both need to, in my opinion, you know, they they need to know how to utilize these tools, but also not use them as a crutch or a replacement for critical thinking, learning, because those are the those are the things that are really going to be the most valuable kind of going forward. I what's Curious your views and and what's the what the data is saying in in your research on the around those on those issues.
speaker-1: You're absolutely right, Trip. These these things are are linked together. They're connected. you know, as I mentioned, parents are very interested in making sure their students are learning the right skills to be successful in the future. When we ask parents, we poll parents every year on this, what what are those skills that are most important? What do you think are the right skills for students? It always comes down to the same ⁓ first couple: critical thinking, problem solving, good communications. ⁓ collaboration skills, the ones that we've talked about for many years. When we start thinking about ⁓ the role of AI, not just in the learning environment, but within our society, ⁓ within the workforce, within the way we're going to be communicating with each other, the way we're gonna be ⁓ consuming information, it's obvious like critical thinking starts right at the top. ⁓ so we need to be good evaluators, all of us. The critical ⁓ thinkers regarding the authenticity of the AI responses, ⁓ how to evaluate AI responses, and as you said, how to identify when is the best time to use those tools and not to use those trees. I think the AI conversation has put a little nuance into that. So the explosion of AI tools, the way districts are thinking about using AI. To support not only staff productivity, but student learning in new ways is really interesting because it's exasperating this conversation again around skills. But now, rather than thinking about skills in the very broad sense, the term that we're hearing used, and we've started adopting using this, is to be thinking about durable skills. So the example I'll give you is ⁓ over the last couple of years. Lots of folks have been talking about computer science, the need for students to learn coding as a skill for the future. I think a lot of people thought those were future ready skills at the time. ⁓ what we're learning with AI is that they may not be, that they may not be as durable as we think they are. ⁓ that's not to say computer science and coding aren't important, but they may not be the skills that are going to take students into the The jobs of the future, since it's very difficult for us to define the jobs of the future when we're looking at this through an AI lens. That's where we're thinking more and more about defining specific skills as durable versus maybe transitory. ⁓ And from the durable skill standpoint, the parents are right on the mark. That critical thinking, the problem solving, the ⁓ communication skills. The teamwork and collaboration skills are viewed now as more durable skills. And the employers agree with that than what was first thought of as ⁓ being an effective coder ⁓ or having familiarity with computer science processes. Again, still important, but maybe not really coming into that category. What we're seeing as a challenge is, ⁓ and I had a lot of conversations with district leaders about that, is how do you actualize that? in third period English class. How do you make that real in a sixth grade math class? What does that mean in terms of the integration within academics and still addressing standards and using the products that they have? And so that's where the real test is today, I think, around the impact of AI is for us to think differently about instructional processes. So that we're helping students develop durable skills. And that is an important way to think about AI rather than just what is your AI policy or what product are we going to license or what are our use cases for teachers to help them save time. I think it's a more important conversation is to think about the impact of AI in really having us to think differently about instruction. So our students are learning these types of durable skills.
speaker-0: That's so interesting. ⁓ I love that framing on durable skills. ⁓ it it ⁓ and and by the way, I should say as a as a as a former ⁓ you know holder of a of a degree in liberal arts, ⁓ and I've I've been encouraged that the conversation has come back to the importance of of ⁓ you know some of these some these softer skills in in the in in ⁓ when ⁓ with the pendulum shifted so hard. But ⁓ you know, I think there's still It's interesting to think about these, these what are the skills, the skills, the the competencies that you know, e that are transferable, right? I and I think there's a lot of folks in the technology in the tech world that would say, yeah, coding, ⁓ the the role of coding hands-on, you know, maybe that that aspect of it, but there's still a lot of really strong kind of foundational first principles ⁓ capabilities that are that are ⁓ developed when someone is learning how to be a coder, right? The way to organize thoughts, the way to ⁓ and and just the the the input mechanism has changed from ⁓ from you know symbols to to words you know essentially so I think it's really really interesting ⁓ kind of conversation. ⁓ yeah so let let's talk a little bit about ⁓ the the partnership that we've had with with Project Tomorrow. I think it started, it predates ⁓ me joining Power School. but I I think really started with the the most recent ⁓ Ed Tech Pulse. But but tell me a little bit about the tell me my our own background there. Tell us a little about the partnership that we that we've had and and ⁓ then we can talk a little bit more about how things are ⁓ some of the work we've done together and what and some of the work we we were cooking up ⁓ going forward.
speaker-1: We've actually had a longer relationship ⁓ than even the most recent EdTech Pulse. It actually goes back about four or five years trip in terms of ⁓ invitations that I've received and accepted to come and speak at Power School events, to share our speak up research findings with ⁓ convenings of customers or even internal staff to be able to inform product. Roadmaps and development plans. And so I've been happy to have ⁓ that engagement with PowerSchool over many, many years. Now, a lot of that came from folks that had been let's say previously in school districts that had used some of the speak up research findings. So they were familiar with our work and felt that it be important to share that more broadly. So it's our started at that level. ⁓ and as I said, I've attended a number of different customer convenings and internal. meetings to share our our research findings. ⁓ that then led to sort of a natural conversation that said, ⁓ well maybe from a PowerSchool perspective, you can help us project tomorrow, think about our research work, think about what we're collecting. Now, of course, one of the the hallmarks of the Speak Up Research Project is that we are very efficient and effective, not only in developing ⁓ survey questions, research questions, interview questions, focus group questions, but also that we understand how to analyze that type of data within the context of the real world environment. So we don't sit in an ivory tower somewhere saying, ⁓ this is what schools should be doing, but rather we're looking at the reality of of the perspective of the stakeholders. ⁓ and it's that point of view of the stakeholders, whether that's students, teachers, parents, administrators, that can be such a powerful asset, both for school districts to transform what they're doing, but also for companies like PowerSchool to have a better understanding of the of their customer experience, particularly around those challenges that are exist in education. So it was within that context. That we ⁓ took on the responsibility of doing the initial polling for the most recent Ed Tech polls and the analysis of that data, again bringing the context from our 23 years of doing the speak up research project to the table to be able to share with the power school team. And that was a great experience to marry our talents, our assets with the experiences and insights of the power school folks to really produce ⁓ What I thought was a really highly effective and highly actionable report ⁓ with that first EdTech pulse. I'll tell you something, Tripp, that I don't think you and I have talked about before that might give you some interesting perspectives here. ⁓ we work with a lot of state departments of education, ⁓ particularly around our speak up research. And there was one in particular that when the ed tech polls came out in January, felt that that was such a model. For how to effectively translate research into practice and provide actionable content to school districts, that they wanted us to model the reports we were doing for them subsequently on that same format. So that was a good statement, I think, to the ⁓ again, the collective wisdom of bringing Project Tomorrow and Power School together. To create something that could really have an impact on the way district leaders were thinking about technology and thinking about the trends and what were the challenges and what were the opportunities. You know, I never want to be on the side. I know some people do, and it's fine. I never want to be on the side of saying, ⁓ well, we we create a great report and it sat on a shelf or it sat in someone's inbox or sat in, you know, a web repository somewhere, but it didn't really make an impact. on things. ⁓ I'm much more motivated by ⁓ impact.
speaker-0: That's so grateful. First of all, thank you for sharing that. ⁓ you know, im imitation is is truly the the sincerest form of flattery. So that's wonderful for for both of our for both of our sakes. But it is in seriousness, it's nice. when you this this work, I just kind of speak in personally for a minute, like, ⁓ and I'm sure this resonates. Like we, you know, we do this work, we're heads down, we you know, we we the the survey goes out, the data comes in, we we're crunching numbers, we're looking at this, and it's like all very interesting to us. And then you you you you kind of put it out in the world and you're like, ⁓ okay, yeah, where do we, you know. And so it's nice. There's a little bit of that, you know, fear and trembling a little bit when these things are launched. You're like, ⁓ is this, you know, is this gonna make a difference? Is this gonna be useful to anyone? Right. ⁓ and so getting that feedback ⁓ is really, really gratifying. And I can tell you that ⁓ you know, we ⁓ as we share the research with our with our stakeholders, you know, we get great reactions and it's really used. We we utilize ⁓ also just some background for for the folks listening. If you're not familiar, first of all, the ⁓ the ed tech pulse ⁓ is available at ⁓ on powerschool.com, powerschool.com slash pulse. ⁓ so you're welcome to go check that as a ⁓ research that was based on 1300 responses collected ⁓ late in 2025, the results ⁓ published in early 2026, really kind of framing what are the major challenges, what are the major priorities ⁓ in the use of technology? Where do districts and dist and district leaders and school leaders feel like ⁓ technology be can be applied most effectively, et cetera, et cetera. So, so great resource there. Please go check that out. And we use that in conversation. A why did we do this in the first place from a PowerScope perspective? You know, ⁓ you know, we want to ground our conversations with, with customers, with potential customers, with partners, really ground that in the reality of their day to day. And so having some ⁓ some dead, some data, some evidence of what those challenges are, ⁓ I think just helps us deliver more value, speak more credibly to those concerns. But also those those leaders then, you know, don't feel just so alone, right? Like they feel, ⁓ great. Yes, I'm this is, ⁓ there are others that are sharing the same perspectives. And and it helps, I think, validate ⁓ you know, where they're at and and the approaches that they're then taking to to resolve and and and address those ⁓ those concerns. So anyway, that just a little bit of background, I think. ⁓ might be might be helpful. I'm curious and and I know it's been a little bit while a little while since we put out the ed tech post, like what were what were some of the big, you know, the the findings and from from that first effort that you know struck you or feel like are ⁓ either are are are being validated in the current environment. I know we're only six months out from when that's been published, right? So ⁓ it se it feels like longer, it does, ⁓ to be honest with you. But you know, but also things change ⁓ can very quickly, particularly attitudes and approaches towards things. So I'm curious what you feel like really has held up well here from that from that research and where you think maybe there's some some some things that are that are have evolved.
speaker-1: It it does feel it does feel like a long time ago. And you're absolutely right. And this is sort of my world, right? We put out lots of different reports, not only in collaboration with Power School, but with our own work and and you hope, hope and pray that it's gonna have an impact. ⁓ either from the district office or in the school building leader's office or in the classroom. And so that's ⁓ sort of the reality of of my world all the time. You know, when I think back to the ITEC pulse, I I think there was a couple of pivotal questions that we asked that were slightly different than what had been asked before. One was the challenges question, which you already mentioned. And you know, we framed it about so what's waking you up in the middle of the night? ⁓ and within that context, it's not like it's your typical challenge, but it's a challenge that you don't know how to fix. You don't know how to address it as a district leader. ⁓ that's not to say that some of the other challenges that districts have are any lesser importance, but they've got a plan. They know how to address it, right? ⁓ you know, what we heard again through the ed tech post was things that we had been hearing previously, either through the Power School Advisory Council or some other work that that you folks had been doing previously, was was about attendance. ⁓ the thorny problem of how do we drive participation in school? How do we drive student engagement? How do we drive family engagement so the students are coming to school and that there's that valuation around the importance of coming to school? I think that that was really important, that that came up as one of those thorny challenges that districts have. And I'm continuing through the rest of the 25, 26 school year, even after that data was collected, to still hearing that as a major challenge. This part about communications with families came out loud and clear in the ed tech pulse, particularly the the nuances around do families have the same perception of the value of school and do they trust their local schools, their local districts in the same way that they used to? And that is ⁓ again one of those thorny challenges that a lot of leaders are are somewhat baffled by. Like, how do I fix that? ⁓ and so I think that's important for us to keep in mind. I think the the some of the other things that we heard were on the priority side. And this I think is really interesting. So the priorities again are, you know, if you talk to a district leader, well, my priorities to make sure that students are safe. My priorities are to make sure that we're delivering the very best education. Of course that's true. We wanted to get to a little bit of the deeper level with that. And that's where a trip, you know, the number one, I was just looking at it again, one that I think it was number one or number two that came up on that list in the EdTech post was this idea around data, was the idea of using data effectively. We have so much technology, as you mentioned, in our districts today. But are those systems connected to each other? Are they leveraging each other? Are we getting one plus one equals three because of the combination of all those different systems? And so to hear the district leaders talk about data alignment, data connectedness, ⁓ analyzing data for patterns and insights to make them more effective leaders as priorities. I thought was a really interesting finding.
speaker-0: And a great segue to talk about some new research that we have out. So ⁓ I'll do a little bit of setup here, which is that we have ⁓ again partnered with Project Tomorrow to ⁓ essentially do a back to school edition of the EdTech Pulse. So we surveyed nearly 400 district ⁓ building both executive and and technology leaders ⁓ for for this work which is which is just out and ⁓ we'll we'll put some links to ⁓ to be able to get that to to that resource in the in the show notes so you can you can access it. But I think some of those themes have have have definitely pulled through ⁓ in this in this most recent work, Julie. And but a few we we added a few new questions as well based on the current kind of environment at the at the moment. And so I'd love to we can we could talk a little bit about those, but maybe maybe tie that that one about the sparked me the data and analytics. And I know there's some really interesting findings coming out around, I guess this the notion of like where where leaders are finding technology most effective right now. And I wonder if we could talk a little bit about about that.
speaker-1: Definitely a really strong ⁓ through line here, right? And some of the work that we did in the data collection for this brand new EdTech pulse is based on what we learned from last fall when we were doing the data collection. So, as I said, that that whole conversation around data alignment and using data more effectively, of course, elevated the question to: well, how effectively are you using technology? Is there a technology effectiveness component to this that maybe hasn't been scratched at yet that we needed to do? And so that was a strong focus of this of the data collection that we did ⁓ here in late spring, early summer, ⁓ and are is ⁓ shared in the second edition, the back to school edition of the ed tech polls was this idea around technology effectiveness. Now it is also being driven by the current environment. So so much of of the conversations nationwide in media as well as in school district offices is about the screen time debate or this tech backlash, as some people call it, tech wash, as some people are calling it. Which is really interesting, right? And so we seeded the questions on the survey, and we had about a little bit more than 350 district administrators in June that completed this for us. within that reality, within the reality of this tech backlash. And that got us into a really interesting conversation about thinking about technology as impacting student learning. So for that, we're talking about classroom tools. We're talking about your math curriculum. We're talking about your ELA curriculum, maybe what you're using in your science classes in terms of online products versus operational uses of technology, the backbone of your district. ⁓ we know in K-12 districts, like just like in every company and PowerSpool and Project Tomorrow and every organization, technology. is in many ways just part of the DNA of the operation. ⁓ You rarely find something that isn't technology enhanced or digitally accessible. And so we wanted to ⁓ sort of divide this conversation into thinking about technology for student learning versus technology for operational success. And again, going back to what we had learned from that first EdTech post around that data connectedness ⁓ conversation. And what we learned was a couple different things, Trip. And again, folks, these are documented in the EdTech Pulse report itself. ⁓ When we think about it, district leaders actually believe that their operational uses of technology are more effective than their student learning uses of technology. So we thought that was very interesting. We also asked about their measurement of effectiveness. So, how are you evaluating the effectiveness of your tools? Again, both on the student learning side as well as on the operational side. We also learned that in many ways, the district leaders are not satisfied with the ways that they're currently thinking about effectiveness. Now, I've got to believe that that's based on reality, that's based on their workflows, that's based on what they're actually seeing from their environment. It was particularly interesting that. Technology leaders, CIOs, and CTOs were the most dissatisfied with the ways they were measuring technology effectiveness. And most on the other side of it, most interested in finding new ways to understand what the metrics should be for evaluating technology effectiveness. Now, again, that comes back to this conversation around screen time. ⁓ digital learning, the tech backlash. One of the things that we have seen through our speak up research over many, many years is that unfortunately a lot of districts, I would say most districts, are not very effective in articulating the value proposition of technology to their parents, to their greater community, to the media that cover them. That has resulted, I think, to some degree in some of this misunderstanding around the tech back left. So I'll give you an example from one of the districts that we're working with. ⁓ this particular ⁓ assistant superintendent told me that right before the start of school this year, they got a call from a parent of a brand new kindergartner, someone that was for the first time bringing their baby to school as a kindergartner. ⁓ because that parent won the school to understand that they did not think it was appropriate for that kindergartner, that five year old, to be on a screen, a computer, for eight hours a day. The assistant superintendent said, we agree. We agree. We have never put kindergartners on screens for eight hours a day. In fact, they had a policy limitation of how technology could be used. But it speaks to the messaging problem. So it also gets to this conversation about when people are thinking about technology. Are they making that differentiation between technology impacting student learning and technology driving the operational effectiveness and efficiency of your school district as an enterprise? And so again, we have more work to do from a district perspective, not only in articulating our position on technology use impacting student learning, but also talking more ⁓ clearly. About the value proposition of connected technology, effective data systems, having the efficiencies of workflows where people can collaborate easily, looking at data and making decisions for the district, whether that's for a budgeting perspective or running your school buses more efficiently, and really making a greater differentiation. on that and ⁓ being able to communicate that more effectively to the community.
speaker-0: Yeah, I want to circle back on that in just a moment. I think, you know, just to to highlight another thing that that stood out to me in in the the the most recent ed tech pulse was just there feels like and and this kind of came out in a couple of the data points, you know, almost this this kind of perfect storm type of ⁓ type of environment, right? Where whether you looked at top line challenges, which was like this kind of combination and the the things that rose at the top was funding. ever-present concerns about funding, ⁓ concerns about ⁓ the ability to understand the the efficacy and the the the impact of technology investments at the same time that districts are dealing with kind of the changing needs of their student population combined with enrollment, right? And enrollment and funding very much kind of connected. So this feels like this this very kind of heady brew here around ⁓ all of these these swirling pressures that are that are mutually kind of rein reinforcing. And then when you you start to look at a time when, you know, ⁓ and and and I know we asked this in the survey, like our ⁓ in and respondents said basically that they were feeling you know more more pressure ⁓ to ⁓ around kind of validating the impact of technology investments and yet ⁓ you know they're not making there's not drastic changes that are happening from a budgetary perspective. There's still ⁓ maybe a little bit of reduction in in in in device use ⁓ that we tracked, but broadly ⁓ not a lot of and and the the highest ⁓ the the lowest amount of of intended reduction in spend was around that operational technology ⁓ that you mentioned so it's a kind of interesting like there and and and dissatisfaction with the ability to to measure these things. So it's like pressure is high, budgets are tight, we need to show the impact. And yet I I don't, you know, I and and and operational technology is really important to me. It's where I'm where I'm putting the the most ⁓ the the highest hopes of of impact ⁓ and and and I don't have the the the great ways of measuring it right and I know that we're We're talking about some ways that maybe we could help along those lines. And maybe that's a good transition to talk about the ⁓ the work we have going on and in in the ⁓ for our stronger school index. And maybe you could talk a little bit about that and how how this ⁓ ed tech pulse work maybe informed the way you're thinking about developing an an index.
speaker-1: Well absolutely trip. And I think it's it's it's a series, right? So ⁓ going back to the ⁓ ed tech post that was released in January, we learned about on this conversation about data, the importance of data. Now we're learning from this new ed tech pulse this importance of ⁓ technology effectiveness and measuring technology effectiveness ⁓ more efficiently or more appropriately. ⁓ and also in service of being able to communicate more efficiently and effectively about what that value proposition looks like. So all that is driving us to this conversation that we've been having with district leaders about the fact that they don't feel that they really have good metrics. Like what should be the metrics that we're using to evaluate the effectiveness of our technology? ⁓ So that led us to a really interesting hypothesis, right? And again, it's a hypothesis because we're in the middle of the research project right now, in all fairness to your listeners. and ⁓ we'll be uncovering a lot of interesting things. But the hypothesis is that if you are a district that uses technology effectively to support your operations and everything that goes into that, you may actually see the long tail of that. in the outcomes of your district. That could be academic outcomes, that could be attendance outcomes, that could be more efficient, interventions for students that be could be greater attention to your special education compliances. All those types of outcomes are important, but we're seeing or we're hypothesizing and hoping to see that there's a connection between the effectiveness of your technology operations and what that means in terms of the outcomes. So we are currently in collaboration with PowerSpool working on a research project with a select set of districts to understand whether that hypothesis holds up. ⁓ And looking at these high-performing, high-achieving districts and understanding the effectiveness of their technology from an operational standpoint to see if this works. Now it's really interesting work. Because once we determine what those key metrics are, we've got our hunches, what they're going to be based on our current research and what we learned from the EdTech Pulse data. But once we really dive into that with the districts, that's then gonna you we're gonna use that. That's gonna give us the impetus to creating what I'm calling sort of a spectrum for that index. So different levels of technology maturity. ⁓ and different levels of technology effectiveness, not so much to say you're ⁓ an A district or a B district or a C district. That's not what our point is. Our point is to be able to give information to districts so that they understand where they are on a spectrum and can start thinking about ways to improve their technology effectiveness. Now the other part of this is that once we get that index that stronger school index built, validated, verified. And again, that's not, we're not doing that in Ivory Tower somewhere. We're doing that in partnership with ⁓ high performing, high achieving districts. We'll then be able to create a self-assessment tool for districts to use. Now again, no shame, no blame here. This is more for districts to use so that they can understand where they are. Have some contextual understanding of where other districts, maybe similar demographics to them, similar locales, similar types of issues and challenges are. And then they can use that as an impetus for changing some of their practices, thinking differently about their use of data, thinking differently about their use of technology. So that's the that's the long game play. ⁓ we are thrilled to be part of this. research, it fits right in with what has, again, as I started off talking about, our very strong nonprofit mission to help districts leaders make the very best decisions. But to do that, they need data, they need research, they need tools to help them. So this determination of the metrics of technology effectiveness. the understanding of the context of that relative to other districts. And then a tool that they can use to evaluate their own effectiveness is not only true the mission of Project Tomorrow, but we see it as being highly supportive of what districts need right now. Particularly, Tripp, as you said, in this perfect storm of whether it is declining budgets, ⁓ declining funding sources, The attendance woes are continuing, teacher retention issues are still a problem, the changing student needs, as I mentioned, different parent expectations. And then OMG, of course, AI is in this mix too. So ⁓ we're hoping that this tool, ⁓ the way we're building it, these tools are going to be highly effective to help district leaders in that regard.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's amazing. I I I kind of think of this as the ⁓ it's like the inverse broken windows ⁓ view ⁓ for for for you utilization of technology. What are the what's the window in if we could view in and see what are the what are the secrets of the the highest achieving districts on whatever set of metrics and that that could be a matter of of improvement over time, it could be in in absolute ⁓ kind of student outcome. ⁓ data, but like, hey, if we ⁓ I I want to understand what what those best performing ⁓ districts, what are they doing? ⁓ how do they adopt technology? What are the tech enabled processes that they have in place and and the level maturity of those ⁓ so that I can ⁓ that I can understand my own journey. ⁓ you know again very no shame, no no no blame, ⁓ just a very kind of just the facts ⁓ type approach and and and if I recall correctly. ⁓ the the desire for some kind of an assessment tool is one of the top ⁓ you know ⁓ tools ⁓ that were that was that were ranked in the in the study what we did when we when we asked about this.
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ that was one of the most interesting parts of the EdTech Post. And folks, you'll see this in the report. You can read this yourself. When we asked district leaders, so think think big, dream big. If you had these type of tools, would that help you be more effective? And you're absolutely right. The self-assessment tool was right up there at the top of that list. They're also looking for recommendations. And you're right, Trip. You know, if we can sort of look in the window of these high performing, high achieving districts that are using technology effectively, what are the things, the tips, the strategies, the culture, the approaches that they're using that other districts may just not be familiar with, that they can also adopt? Now it's not going to happen overnight. We know that. But it gives them insights to be able to improve their own technology effectiveness. And hopefully be able to address those same types of outcomes.
speaker-0: Well, I'm just so excited for this work. ⁓ you know, I I know the early feedback from conversations ⁓ with with district leaders and and other folks in the industry has been overwhelmingly positive and and a a feeling that like ⁓ this is something that's that's much needed ⁓ and doesn't really exist today. So I'm I'm really super excited to be partnering with you in Project Tomorrow on this and and and just more excited that we can be offering something of value. ⁓ to to the industry ⁓ to to to bring these kinds of insights. So let's we we we we like to wrap things up here with a with a question which is you know what is your advice for a district leader who wants to build and cultivate a stronger school? Simple, easy.
speaker-1: Very easy question. We can handle that in the next hour and a half trip. We we've got another hour and a half.
speaker-0: in the world, Julie. Whatever it takes, whatever it takes here.
speaker-1: You know, I I always believe ⁓ longstanding belief here, and it's based on research. It's also based on the fact that that I have such a privilege to work with school or district leaders all the time, all across the country, is it starts with your people, right? It starts with people. And so ⁓ providing an environment that not only enables but empowers your staff, your team to build, to grow, to think creatively, to think innovatively, to build that culture around your people and what they need to thrive, I think is really the first step for a district leader to build a stronger school and a stronger district. ⁓ when you have the right people on the bus, as they like to say, that's the first step. But it's more important, I think, than ever today to make sure that we're empowering And building agency with our teams to think creatively, to look at problems and not just think outside of the box, because that feels a little dated, but to think way outside the box and leverage the tools that we have to be able to transform the educational process. So I'm gonna I'm gonna vote for on the side of ⁓ empowering people.
speaker-0: I love it. I love it. Thank you, Julie. Great great perspective. Well, I I've this has been a lot of fun. Really enjoy the conversation. ⁓ again, truly appreciate the partnership that we have with Project Tomorrow and and the the the the credibility that comes with the longstanding work you've done, the relationships, your understanding of of K twelve and and what leaders need and and what's gonna resonate. It's just been just a pleasure to to be able work with you and then to continue to do this work ⁓ together. So I really appreciate it.
speaker-1: Much trip. ⁓ our team is loving this opportunity as well. We're super invigorated and excited about once again, as I said, sort of marrying our talents and assets with ⁓ a partner that shares our values.
speaker-0: Great. Well, thanks again. ⁓ so a c a couple kind of closing notes here. to get the ⁓ EdTech Pulse that was published at the beginning of the year, go to powerschool.com slash ⁓ pulse. ⁓ to get the newest research, we'll we'll put up the the link in the notes and and up on the screen here ⁓ in just a moment to get the ⁓ the the latest back to school edition of Ed Tech Pulse and and get all the The great findings that we talked about and and a lot more. ⁓ so definitely check that out. thank you very much for joining the Stronger School Podcast today. We'd really appreciate you investing some time ⁓ to enjoy this program. And I hope you did enjoy it. If you did, ⁓ please recommend it. And of course, ⁓ give us a rating, follow us, add us to your subscription feed on wherever you get your podcasts. So Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube. and ⁓ again, give us some feedback along the way. So thanks very much and ⁓ have a great day.
speaker-1: You so much for having me, Trip. I'm excited for us to have this conversation today.
speaker-0: Absolutely. Now, ⁓ full disclosure for everyone, ⁓ Power School and Project Tomorrow have been partnered on on a few projects and and a few going forward. And we're gonna get a little bit into that ⁓ a little bit later in the conversation. And and I'm I'm really excited about this work that we're that we're cooking up, Julie. ⁓ but yeah, before we get into that, maybe just provide everyone with a little bit of ⁓ if if they're not familiar with you and your work, ⁓ I'd love to What's the origin story of ⁓ Dr. Julie Evans and and Project Tomorrow? You guys have been a a stalwart in in the industry for quite a while.
speaker-1: You so much, Tripp. ⁓ so Project Tomorrow has been supporting K-12 education since 1996. That precedes my involvement, to be quite honest with you. ⁓ I've been with the organization for a long time. ⁓ and during that time, we have been 100% focused in on helping K-12 schools and districts understand how to use data and research more effectively. To impact the very best decisions that they can make to improve student learning and teacher effectiveness. Now, the interesting origin story for Julie Evans is my background is in the tech industry. So came up through the tech industry in sales and marketing and then migrated over to do some research. I was with two ed tech startups and then joined the crazy world of nonprofit research after many years in that first career path. And so it's really interesting for me to sort of marry the ⁓ ed tech industry perspective with the education research nonprofit side of the house and bring those sort of insights into our work. So from a project tomorrow standpoint, you know, we're we talk a lot, Trip, and I know this you'll appreciate this, about how do you translate research into practice? Like, how do you take all these interesting research findings and Project Tomorrow does a lot of research, but really make it actionable for school and district leaders to be able to use those insights, that data, that research, to create better learning experiences for students. That's really the thing that gets me up in the morning. How do we do that more effectively? And it's been great over the last couple of years to be partnering with Power School who share that same vision.
speaker-0: Yeah, I love that. Now, like speak up. That's been kind of the cornerstone project of Project Tomorrow. ⁓ before we kind of get into anything else, like tell tell us a little bit about that, about that work. I know that's been ⁓ the the ⁓ lifeblood, if you will, of of Project Tomorrow for quite a while a while and and and ⁓ a project that many folks kind of associate with with the organization.
speaker-1: Yeah, you're absolutely right, Trip. ⁓ we're probably best well known for the Speak Up Research Project, which we started in 2003, a long time ago, ⁓ to first initially just collect the voices of students and see what students were doing in 2003 around technology. Really interesting side story. I was interviewed after that first year of the Speak Up Research Project on CNN, and one of the key findings that they were really fixated on. Was that students said their number one mobile device that they used extensively was a CD burner. Who can remember those, right? And so how times have changed since 2003. But every year, what we do is we create a set of national surveys that can be used by any K-12 school or district to collect feedback from your stakeholders. It's a service that we provide to schools and districts. Schools and districts get back their own live local data and state level and national level comparative data, which provides context. And that's the real heart of this. You know, anyone can do a survey and say 50% of my students say this, or 80% of my teachers believe this, or here's what 65% of parents say. But if you don't have the context of what that means relative to other schools in your or districts in your state. or nationwide, it just is an interesting data statistic. And again, back to that point I made about the real focus on creating actionable knowledge, the context helps to do that. We've been thrilled to have been ⁓ doing the speak up research project for 26 years, coming in up on our 27th starting in October. And every year it changes. You know, the qu we're no longer asking about C V burners, just so that everybody understands. ⁓ but the questions have evolved to meet the types of issues that school and district leaders are facing relative to technology use. And so it's always been very interesting to look at the findings, but I'm always thrilled when I hear from school and district leaders that they use it. They use those data reports, they use our infographics, they use those findings to inform their efforts. And the same for state policymakers as well as federal policymakers. So that's a that's a good statement to the value I think of the speak up research being a national research project.
speaker-0: Yeah, amazing. ⁓ okay, well, I want to talk a little bit about because this super interesting time to have ⁓ you know, a whole bunch of longitudinal data about the way students are interacting with technology. So let's let's let's talk a little bit about that in just a moment. But yeah, I'm gonna ⁓ let broaden out for a minute. you know, kind of thinking about the longevity of of of project tomorrow, like what are the I guess, you know, what are the things that you're that you feel like are ⁓ recurring issues, the more they change, the more they stay the same. And what's the biggest, you know, shift that you're observing over that span of time?
speaker-1: Well those are are two interesting ⁓ sort of almost conflicting pivotal points, right? So what do we see as being very consistent over time? I would say two things. ⁓ students are very interested in using technology to support their learning, but they think of technology as a utility, not as something ⁓ to drive engagement. or to be fun to use in school, they actually think about it from a very purposeful perspective, that technology gives them the opportunity to be more efficient, more effective learners, and to have access to resources that transcend what might be limitations in their school, in their classroom, even their teacher's knowledge, or in their community. That's been a recurring message from the very beginning. Now the the tools that the students have used have changed over time. But that strong ethos to using technology for purposeful reasons, ⁓ whether that is for learning or for friend engagement or to learn about what's happening in the world outside of academics, that has stayed very consistent. One of the other things has stayed that has stayed very consistent is ⁓ teachers still need more support in how to use technology effectively. They told us that back in 2004, 2005, 2006. They're still saying it in 2023, 24, 25, 26. They're still looking for additional support to understand how to use technology more effectively. Now, what have we seen from our data set that has changed over time? We have seen definitely increased interest on the part of parents to better understand the learning experience that their students are having in school. And we've also seen a change in parents' perspective from their again point of view as to the purpose of high quality education. Parents increasingly over the last actually 10 to 15 years have told us that they see the value of their child's education and helping them create skills that they need to be successful in the future. That's not to say the parents don't care or care about good ⁓ grammar skills or history. or making sure their students know how to multiply fractions, but they're very much more focused in on that college and career readiness component of their child's education. And I think that has been a significant shift that we've seen in our data over those, again, 23, almost 24 years of doing this work. ⁓ It's really interesting to also see that the roles in districts have evolved over time. You know, we initially would only pull chief information officers and chief technology officers from the district office about what was happening with technology, but increasingly now we see that technology is part of the ecosystem of a district. And so getting the views of superintendents, chief academic officers, ⁓ even HR directors and directors of communications are equally important in understanding the real world of how technology is impacting. not just student learning, but district operations as well. And so that has been a change that we've seen over time. So I gave you two things that were consistent and two changes.
speaker-0: Yeah, super interesting. ⁓ so many threads to pull on there. I think the first one just as a as an observation, I think there's a it it's interesting that in many ways districts and schools have a lot of technology. We hear that all the time of the kind of the tool explosion bloat, maybe that's happening. But also I think an argument that in some ways technology isn't you know, as utilized, ⁓ and we're talking about different types of technology here, right? It's not all the same. some of it like a lot of the explosion has been, I think, in some of the learning tools and so forth versus, you know, as a as a percentage of there's some data that, you know, as a percentage of kind of the Oprah operational budget K twelve districts are fairly low when you compare it with other industries. So it's an interesting interesting observation that ⁓ You know, you're starting to hear more, I guess, kind of ⁓ technology awareness, technology IQ amongst those business uners you users ⁓ over time. So really interesting observation and one that ⁓ obviously we're we're very kind of keen to to follow. Maybe we'll talk a little bit more about that. interested in what you're in the given the the current, I guess, environment conversation on particularly AI, you know, this which which we can't we can't escape conversations around around AI anywhere. but also the the workforce learning, ⁓ the workforce pathways conversation and and career and and college readiness, which I I see those two things as ⁓ you know not obviously linked, but there's a strong connection ⁓ more broadly as ⁓ as the conversation on AI is bringing up a lot of conversation on future ready workforce and and ⁓ students that are prepared for what that what that means. That means that they, you know, both need to, in my opinion, you know, they they need to know how to utilize these tools, but also not use them as a crutch or a replacement for critical thinking, learning, because those are the those are the things that are really going to be the most valuable kind of going forward. I what's Curious your views and and what's the what the data is saying in in your research on the around those on those issues.
speaker-1: You're absolutely right, Trip. These these things are are linked together. They're connected. you know, as I mentioned, parents are very interested in making sure their students are learning the right skills to be successful in the future. When we ask parents, we poll parents every year on this, what what are those skills that are most important? What do you think are the right skills for students? It always comes down to the same ⁓ first couple: critical thinking, problem solving, good communications. ⁓ collaboration skills, the ones that we've talked about for many years. When we start thinking about ⁓ the role of AI, not just in the learning environment, but within our society, ⁓ within the workforce, within the way we're going to be communicating with each other, the way we're gonna be ⁓ consuming information, it's obvious like critical thinking starts right at the top. ⁓ so we need to be good evaluators, all of us. The critical ⁓ thinkers regarding the authenticity of the AI responses, ⁓ how to evaluate AI responses, and as you said, how to identify when is the best time to use those tools and not to use those trees. I think the AI conversation has put a little nuance into that. So the explosion of AI tools, the way districts are thinking about using AI. To support not only staff productivity, but student learning in new ways is really interesting because it's exasperating this conversation again around skills. But now, rather than thinking about skills in the very broad sense, the term that we're hearing used, and we've started adopting using this, is to be thinking about durable skills. So the example I'll give you is ⁓ over the last couple of years. Lots of folks have been talking about computer science, the need for students to learn coding as a skill for the future. I think a lot of people thought those were future ready skills at the time. ⁓ what we're learning with AI is that they may not be, that they may not be as durable as we think they are. ⁓ that's not to say computer science and coding aren't important, but they may not be the skills that are going to take students into the The jobs of the future, since it's very difficult for us to define the jobs of the future when we're looking at this through an AI lens. That's where we're thinking more and more about defining specific skills as durable versus maybe transitory. ⁓ And from the durable skill standpoint, the parents are right on the mark. That critical thinking, the problem solving, the ⁓ communication skills. The teamwork and collaboration skills are viewed now as more durable skills. And the employers agree with that than what was first thought of as ⁓ being an effective coder ⁓ or having familiarity with computer science processes. Again, still important, but maybe not really coming into that category. What we're seeing as a challenge is, ⁓ and I had a lot of conversations with district leaders about that, is how do you actualize that? in third period English class. How do you make that real in a sixth grade math class? What does that mean in terms of the integration within academics and still addressing standards and using the products that they have? And so that's where the real test is today, I think, around the impact of AI is for us to think differently about instructional processes. So that we're helping students develop durable skills. And that is an important way to think about AI rather than just what is your AI policy or what product are we going to license or what are our use cases for teachers to help them save time. I think it's a more important conversation is to think about the impact of AI in really having us to think differently about instruction. So our students are learning these types of durable skills.
speaker-0: That's so interesting. ⁓ I love that framing on durable skills. ⁓ it it ⁓ and and by the way, I should say as a as a as a former ⁓ you know holder of a of a degree in liberal arts, ⁓ and I've I've been encouraged that the conversation has come back to the importance of of ⁓ you know some of these some these softer skills in in the in in ⁓ when ⁓ with the pendulum shifted so hard. But ⁓ you know, I think there's still It's interesting to think about these, these what are the skills, the skills, the the competencies that you know, e that are transferable, right? I and I think there's a lot of folks in the technology in the tech world that would say, yeah, coding, ⁓ the the role of coding hands-on, you know, maybe that that aspect of it, but there's still a lot of really strong kind of foundational first principles ⁓ capabilities that are that are ⁓ developed when someone is learning how to be a coder, right? The way to organize thoughts, the way to ⁓ and and just the the the input mechanism has changed from ⁓ from you know symbols to to words you know essentially so I think it's really really interesting ⁓ kind of conversation. ⁓ yeah so let let's talk a little bit about ⁓ the the partnership that we've had with with Project Tomorrow. I think it started, it predates ⁓ me joining Power School. but I I think really started with the the most recent ⁓ Ed Tech Pulse. But but tell me a little bit about the tell me my our own background there. Tell us a little about the partnership that we that we've had and and ⁓ then we can talk a little bit more about how things are ⁓ some of the work we've done together and what and some of the work we we were cooking up ⁓ going forward.
speaker-1: We've actually had a longer relationship ⁓ than even the most recent EdTech Pulse. It actually goes back about four or five years trip in terms of ⁓ invitations that I've received and accepted to come and speak at Power School events, to share our speak up research findings with ⁓ convenings of customers or even internal staff to be able to inform product. Roadmaps and development plans. And so I've been happy to have ⁓ that engagement with PowerSchool over many, many years. Now, a lot of that came from folks that had been let's say previously in school districts that had used some of the speak up research findings. So they were familiar with our work and felt that it be important to share that more broadly. So it's our started at that level. ⁓ and as I said, I've attended a number of different customer convenings and internal. meetings to share our our research findings. ⁓ that then led to sort of a natural conversation that said, ⁓ well maybe from a PowerSchool perspective, you can help us project tomorrow, think about our research work, think about what we're collecting. Now, of course, one of the the hallmarks of the Speak Up Research Project is that we are very efficient and effective, not only in developing ⁓ survey questions, research questions, interview questions, focus group questions, but also that we understand how to analyze that type of data within the context of the real world environment. So we don't sit in an ivory tower somewhere saying, ⁓ this is what schools should be doing, but rather we're looking at the reality of of the perspective of the stakeholders. ⁓ and it's that point of view of the stakeholders, whether that's students, teachers, parents, administrators, that can be such a powerful asset, both for school districts to transform what they're doing, but also for companies like PowerSchool to have a better understanding of the of their customer experience, particularly around those challenges that are exist in education. So it was within that context. That we ⁓ took on the responsibility of doing the initial polling for the most recent Ed Tech polls and the analysis of that data, again bringing the context from our 23 years of doing the speak up research project to the table to be able to share with the power school team. And that was a great experience to marry our talents, our assets with the experiences and insights of the power school folks to really produce ⁓ What I thought was a really highly effective and highly actionable report ⁓ with that first EdTech pulse. I'll tell you something, Tripp, that I don't think you and I have talked about before that might give you some interesting perspectives here. ⁓ we work with a lot of state departments of education, ⁓ particularly around our speak up research. And there was one in particular that when the ed tech polls came out in January, felt that that was such a model. For how to effectively translate research into practice and provide actionable content to school districts, that they wanted us to model the reports we were doing for them subsequently on that same format. So that was a good statement, I think, to the ⁓ again, the collective wisdom of bringing Project Tomorrow and Power School together. To create something that could really have an impact on the way district leaders were thinking about technology and thinking about the trends and what were the challenges and what were the opportunities. You know, I never want to be on the side. I know some people do, and it's fine. I never want to be on the side of saying, ⁓ well, we we create a great report and it sat on a shelf or it sat in someone's inbox or sat in, you know, a web repository somewhere, but it didn't really make an impact. on things. ⁓ I'm much more motivated by ⁓ impact.
speaker-0: That's so grateful. First of all, thank you for sharing that. ⁓ you know, im imitation is is truly the the sincerest form of flattery. So that's wonderful for for both of our for both of our sakes. But it is in seriousness, it's nice. when you this this work, I just kind of speak in personally for a minute, like, ⁓ and I'm sure this resonates. Like we, you know, we do this work, we're heads down, we you know, we we the the survey goes out, the data comes in, we we're crunching numbers, we're looking at this, and it's like all very interesting to us. And then you you you you kind of put it out in the world and you're like, ⁓ okay, yeah, where do we, you know. And so it's nice. There's a little bit of that, you know, fear and trembling a little bit when these things are launched. You're like, ⁓ is this, you know, is this gonna make a difference? Is this gonna be useful to anyone? Right. ⁓ and so getting that feedback ⁓ is really, really gratifying. And I can tell you that ⁓ you know, we ⁓ as we share the research with our with our stakeholders, you know, we get great reactions and it's really used. We we utilize ⁓ also just some background for for the folks listening. If you're not familiar, first of all, the ⁓ the ed tech pulse ⁓ is available at ⁓ on powerschool.com, powerschool.com slash pulse. ⁓ so you're welcome to go check that as a ⁓ research that was based on 1300 responses collected ⁓ late in 2025, the results ⁓ published in early 2026, really kind of framing what are the major challenges, what are the major priorities ⁓ in the use of technology? Where do districts and dist and district leaders and school leaders feel like ⁓ technology be can be applied most effectively, et cetera, et cetera. So, so great resource there. Please go check that out. And we use that in conversation. A why did we do this in the first place from a PowerScope perspective? You know, ⁓ you know, we want to ground our conversations with, with customers, with potential customers, with partners, really ground that in the reality of their day to day. And so having some ⁓ some dead, some data, some evidence of what those challenges are, ⁓ I think just helps us deliver more value, speak more credibly to those concerns. But also those those leaders then, you know, don't feel just so alone, right? Like they feel, ⁓ great. Yes, I'm this is, ⁓ there are others that are sharing the same perspectives. And and it helps, I think, validate ⁓ you know, where they're at and and the approaches that they're then taking to to resolve and and and address those ⁓ those concerns. So anyway, that just a little bit of background, I think. ⁓ might be might be helpful. I'm curious and and I know it's been a little bit while a little while since we put out the ed tech post, like what were what were some of the big, you know, the the findings and from from that first effort that you know struck you or feel like are ⁓ either are are are being validated in the current environment. I know we're only six months out from when that's been published, right? So ⁓ it se it feels like longer, it does, ⁓ to be honest with you. But you know, but also things change ⁓ can very quickly, particularly attitudes and approaches towards things. So I'm curious what you feel like really has held up well here from that from that research and where you think maybe there's some some some things that are that are have evolved.
speaker-1: It it does feel it does feel like a long time ago. And you're absolutely right. And this is sort of my world, right? We put out lots of different reports, not only in collaboration with Power School, but with our own work and and you hope, hope and pray that it's gonna have an impact. ⁓ either from the district office or in the school building leader's office or in the classroom. And so that's ⁓ sort of the reality of of my world all the time. You know, when I think back to the ITEC pulse, I I think there was a couple of pivotal questions that we asked that were slightly different than what had been asked before. One was the challenges question, which you already mentioned. And you know, we framed it about so what's waking you up in the middle of the night? ⁓ and within that context, it's not like it's your typical challenge, but it's a challenge that you don't know how to fix. You don't know how to address it as a district leader. ⁓ that's not to say that some of the other challenges that districts have are any lesser importance, but they've got a plan. They know how to address it, right? ⁓ you know, what we heard again through the ed tech post was things that we had been hearing previously, either through the Power School Advisory Council or some other work that that you folks had been doing previously, was was about attendance. ⁓ the thorny problem of how do we drive participation in school? How do we drive student engagement? How do we drive family engagement so the students are coming to school and that there's that valuation around the importance of coming to school? I think that that was really important, that that came up as one of those thorny challenges that districts have. And I'm continuing through the rest of the 25, 26 school year, even after that data was collected, to still hearing that as a major challenge. This part about communications with families came out loud and clear in the ed tech pulse, particularly the the nuances around do families have the same perception of the value of school and do they trust their local schools, their local districts in the same way that they used to? And that is ⁓ again one of those thorny challenges that a lot of leaders are are somewhat baffled by. Like, how do I fix that? ⁓ and so I think that's important for us to keep in mind. I think the the some of the other things that we heard were on the priority side. And this I think is really interesting. So the priorities again are, you know, if you talk to a district leader, well, my priorities to make sure that students are safe. My priorities are to make sure that we're delivering the very best education. Of course that's true. We wanted to get to a little bit of the deeper level with that. And that's where a trip, you know, the number one, I was just looking at it again, one that I think it was number one or number two that came up on that list in the EdTech post was this idea around data, was the idea of using data effectively. We have so much technology, as you mentioned, in our districts today. But are those systems connected to each other? Are they leveraging each other? Are we getting one plus one equals three because of the combination of all those different systems? And so to hear the district leaders talk about data alignment, data connectedness, ⁓ analyzing data for patterns and insights to make them more effective leaders as priorities. I thought was a really interesting finding.
speaker-0: And a great segue to talk about some new research that we have out. So ⁓ I'll do a little bit of setup here, which is that we have ⁓ again partnered with Project Tomorrow to ⁓ essentially do a back to school edition of the EdTech Pulse. So we surveyed nearly 400 district ⁓ building both executive and and technology leaders ⁓ for for this work which is which is just out and ⁓ we'll we'll put some links to ⁓ to be able to get that to to that resource in the in the show notes so you can you can access it. But I think some of those themes have have have definitely pulled through ⁓ in this in this most recent work, Julie. And but a few we we added a few new questions as well based on the current kind of environment at the at the moment. And so I'd love to we can we could talk a little bit about those, but maybe maybe tie that that one about the sparked me the data and analytics. And I know there's some really interesting findings coming out around, I guess this the notion of like where where leaders are finding technology most effective right now. And I wonder if we could talk a little bit about about that.
speaker-1: Definitely a really strong ⁓ through line here, right? And some of the work that we did in the data collection for this brand new EdTech pulse is based on what we learned from last fall when we were doing the data collection. So, as I said, that that whole conversation around data alignment and using data more effectively, of course, elevated the question to: well, how effectively are you using technology? Is there a technology effectiveness component to this that maybe hasn't been scratched at yet that we needed to do? And so that was a strong focus of this of the data collection that we did ⁓ here in late spring, early summer, ⁓ and are is ⁓ shared in the second edition, the back to school edition of the ed tech polls was this idea around technology effectiveness. Now it is also being driven by the current environment. So so much of of the conversations nationwide in media as well as in school district offices is about the screen time debate or this tech backlash, as some people call it, tech wash, as some people are calling it. Which is really interesting, right? And so we seeded the questions on the survey, and we had about a little bit more than 350 district administrators in June that completed this for us. within that reality, within the reality of this tech backlash. And that got us into a really interesting conversation about thinking about technology as impacting student learning. So for that, we're talking about classroom tools. We're talking about your math curriculum. We're talking about your ELA curriculum, maybe what you're using in your science classes in terms of online products versus operational uses of technology, the backbone of your district. ⁓ we know in K-12 districts, like just like in every company and PowerSpool and Project Tomorrow and every organization, technology. is in many ways just part of the DNA of the operation. ⁓ You rarely find something that isn't technology enhanced or digitally accessible. And so we wanted to ⁓ sort of divide this conversation into thinking about technology for student learning versus technology for operational success. And again, going back to what we had learned from that first EdTech post around that data connectedness ⁓ conversation. And what we learned was a couple different things, Trip. And again, folks, these are documented in the EdTech Pulse report itself. ⁓ When we think about it, district leaders actually believe that their operational uses of technology are more effective than their student learning uses of technology. So we thought that was very interesting. We also asked about their measurement of effectiveness. So, how are you evaluating the effectiveness of your tools? Again, both on the student learning side as well as on the operational side. We also learned that in many ways, the district leaders are not satisfied with the ways that they're currently thinking about effectiveness. Now, I've got to believe that that's based on reality, that's based on their workflows, that's based on what they're actually seeing from their environment. It was particularly interesting that. Technology leaders, CIOs, and CTOs were the most dissatisfied with the ways they were measuring technology effectiveness. And most on the other side of it, most interested in finding new ways to understand what the metrics should be for evaluating technology effectiveness. Now, again, that comes back to this conversation around screen time. ⁓ digital learning, the tech backlash. One of the things that we have seen through our speak up research over many, many years is that unfortunately a lot of districts, I would say most districts, are not very effective in articulating the value proposition of technology to their parents, to their greater community, to the media that cover them. That has resulted, I think, to some degree in some of this misunderstanding around the tech back left. So I'll give you an example from one of the districts that we're working with. ⁓ this particular ⁓ assistant superintendent told me that right before the start of school this year, they got a call from a parent of a brand new kindergartner, someone that was for the first time bringing their baby to school as a kindergartner. ⁓ because that parent won the school to understand that they did not think it was appropriate for that kindergartner, that five year old, to be on a screen, a computer, for eight hours a day. The assistant superintendent said, we agree. We agree. We have never put kindergartners on screens for eight hours a day. In fact, they had a policy limitation of how technology could be used. But it speaks to the messaging problem. So it also gets to this conversation about when people are thinking about technology. Are they making that differentiation between technology impacting student learning and technology driving the operational effectiveness and efficiency of your school district as an enterprise? And so again, we have more work to do from a district perspective, not only in articulating our position on technology use impacting student learning, but also talking more ⁓ clearly. About the value proposition of connected technology, effective data systems, having the efficiencies of workflows where people can collaborate easily, looking at data and making decisions for the district, whether that's for a budgeting perspective or running your school buses more efficiently, and really making a greater differentiation. on that and ⁓ being able to communicate that more effectively to the community.
speaker-0: Yeah, I want to circle back on that in just a moment. I think, you know, just to to highlight another thing that that stood out to me in in the the the most recent ed tech pulse was just there feels like and and this kind of came out in a couple of the data points, you know, almost this this kind of perfect storm type of ⁓ type of environment, right? Where whether you looked at top line challenges, which was like this kind of combination and the the things that rose at the top was funding. ever-present concerns about funding, ⁓ concerns about ⁓ the ability to understand the the efficacy and the the the impact of technology investments at the same time that districts are dealing with kind of the changing needs of their student population combined with enrollment, right? And enrollment and funding very much kind of connected. So this feels like this this very kind of heady brew here around ⁓ all of these these swirling pressures that are that are mutually kind of rein reinforcing. And then when you you start to look at a time when, you know, ⁓ and and and I know we asked this in the survey, like our ⁓ in and respondents said basically that they were feeling you know more more pressure ⁓ to ⁓ around kind of validating the impact of technology investments and yet ⁓ you know they're not making there's not drastic changes that are happening from a budgetary perspective. There's still ⁓ maybe a little bit of reduction in in in in device use ⁓ that we tracked, but broadly ⁓ not a lot of and and the the highest ⁓ the the lowest amount of of intended reduction in spend was around that operational technology ⁓ that you mentioned so it's a kind of interesting like there and and and dissatisfaction with the ability to to measure these things. So it's like pressure is high, budgets are tight, we need to show the impact. And yet I I don't, you know, I and and and operational technology is really important to me. It's where I'm where I'm putting the the most ⁓ the the highest hopes of of impact ⁓ and and and I don't have the the the great ways of measuring it right and I know that we're We're talking about some ways that maybe we could help along those lines. And maybe that's a good transition to talk about the ⁓ the work we have going on and in in the ⁓ for our stronger school index. And maybe you could talk a little bit about that and how how this ⁓ ed tech pulse work maybe informed the way you're thinking about developing an an index.
speaker-1: Well absolutely trip. And I think it's it's it's a series, right? So ⁓ going back to the ⁓ ed tech post that was released in January, we learned about on this conversation about data, the importance of data. Now we're learning from this new ed tech pulse this importance of ⁓ technology effectiveness and measuring technology effectiveness ⁓ more efficiently or more appropriately. ⁓ and also in service of being able to communicate more efficiently and effectively about what that value proposition looks like. So all that is driving us to this conversation that we've been having with district leaders about the fact that they don't feel that they really have good metrics. Like what should be the metrics that we're using to evaluate the effectiveness of our technology? ⁓ So that led us to a really interesting hypothesis, right? And again, it's a hypothesis because we're in the middle of the research project right now, in all fairness to your listeners. and ⁓ we'll be uncovering a lot of interesting things. But the hypothesis is that if you are a district that uses technology effectively to support your operations and everything that goes into that, you may actually see the long tail of that. in the outcomes of your district. That could be academic outcomes, that could be attendance outcomes, that could be more efficient, interventions for students that be could be greater attention to your special education compliances. All those types of outcomes are important, but we're seeing or we're hypothesizing and hoping to see that there's a connection between the effectiveness of your technology operations and what that means in terms of the outcomes. So we are currently in collaboration with PowerSpool working on a research project with a select set of districts to understand whether that hypothesis holds up. ⁓ And looking at these high-performing, high-achieving districts and understanding the effectiveness of their technology from an operational standpoint to see if this works. Now it's really interesting work. Because once we determine what those key metrics are, we've got our hunches, what they're going to be based on our current research and what we learned from the EdTech Pulse data. But once we really dive into that with the districts, that's then gonna you we're gonna use that. That's gonna give us the impetus to creating what I'm calling sort of a spectrum for that index. So different levels of technology maturity. ⁓ and different levels of technology effectiveness, not so much to say you're ⁓ an A district or a B district or a C district. That's not what our point is. Our point is to be able to give information to districts so that they understand where they are on a spectrum and can start thinking about ways to improve their technology effectiveness. Now the other part of this is that once we get that index that stronger school index built, validated, verified. And again, that's not, we're not doing that in Ivory Tower somewhere. We're doing that in partnership with ⁓ high performing, high achieving districts. We'll then be able to create a self-assessment tool for districts to use. Now again, no shame, no blame here. This is more for districts to use so that they can understand where they are. Have some contextual understanding of where other districts, maybe similar demographics to them, similar locales, similar types of issues and challenges are. And then they can use that as an impetus for changing some of their practices, thinking differently about their use of data, thinking differently about their use of technology. So that's the that's the long game play. ⁓ we are thrilled to be part of this. research, it fits right in with what has, again, as I started off talking about, our very strong nonprofit mission to help districts leaders make the very best decisions. But to do that, they need data, they need research, they need tools to help them. So this determination of the metrics of technology effectiveness. the understanding of the context of that relative to other districts. And then a tool that they can use to evaluate their own effectiveness is not only true the mission of Project Tomorrow, but we see it as being highly supportive of what districts need right now. Particularly, Tripp, as you said, in this perfect storm of whether it is declining budgets, ⁓ declining funding sources, The attendance woes are continuing, teacher retention issues are still a problem, the changing student needs, as I mentioned, different parent expectations. And then OMG, of course, AI is in this mix too. So ⁓ we're hoping that this tool, ⁓ the way we're building it, these tools are going to be highly effective to help district leaders in that regard.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's amazing. I I I kind of think of this as the ⁓ it's like the inverse broken windows ⁓ view ⁓ for for for you utilization of technology. What are the what's the window in if we could view in and see what are the what are the secrets of the the highest achieving districts on whatever set of metrics and that that could be a matter of of improvement over time, it could be in in absolute ⁓ kind of student outcome. ⁓ data, but like, hey, if we ⁓ I I want to understand what what those best performing ⁓ districts, what are they doing? ⁓ how do they adopt technology? What are the tech enabled processes that they have in place and and the level maturity of those ⁓ so that I can ⁓ that I can understand my own journey. ⁓ you know again very no shame, no no no blame, ⁓ just a very kind of just the facts ⁓ type approach and and and if I recall correctly. ⁓ the the desire for some kind of an assessment tool is one of the top ⁓ you know ⁓ tools ⁓ that were that was that were ranked in the in the study what we did when we when we asked about this.
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ that was one of the most interesting parts of the EdTech Post. And folks, you'll see this in the report. You can read this yourself. When we asked district leaders, so think think big, dream big. If you had these type of tools, would that help you be more effective? And you're absolutely right. The self-assessment tool was right up there at the top of that list. They're also looking for recommendations. And you're right, Trip. You know, if we can sort of look in the window of these high performing, high achieving districts that are using technology effectively, what are the things, the tips, the strategies, the culture, the approaches that they're using that other districts may just not be familiar with, that they can also adopt? Now it's not going to happen overnight. We know that. But it gives them insights to be able to improve their own technology effectiveness. And hopefully be able to address those same types of outcomes.
speaker-0: Well, I'm just so excited for this work. ⁓ you know, I I know the early feedback from conversations ⁓ with with district leaders and and other folks in the industry has been overwhelmingly positive and and a a feeling that like ⁓ this is something that's that's much needed ⁓ and doesn't really exist today. So I'm I'm really super excited to be partnering with you in Project Tomorrow on this and and and just more excited that we can be offering something of value. ⁓ to to the industry ⁓ to to to bring these kinds of insights. So let's we we we we like to wrap things up here with a with a question which is you know what is your advice for a district leader who wants to build and cultivate a stronger school? Simple, easy.
speaker-1: Very easy question. We can handle that in the next hour and a half trip. We we've got another hour and a half.
speaker-0: in the world, Julie. Whatever it takes, whatever it takes here.
speaker-1: You know, I I always believe ⁓ longstanding belief here, and it's based on research. It's also based on the fact that that I have such a privilege to work with school or district leaders all the time, all across the country, is it starts with your people, right? It starts with people. And so ⁓ providing an environment that not only enables but empowers your staff, your team to build, to grow, to think creatively, to think innovatively, to build that culture around your people and what they need to thrive, I think is really the first step for a district leader to build a stronger school and a stronger district. ⁓ when you have the right people on the bus, as they like to say, that's the first step. But it's more important, I think, than ever today to make sure that we're empowering And building agency with our teams to think creatively, to look at problems and not just think outside of the box, because that feels a little dated, but to think way outside the box and leverage the tools that we have to be able to transform the educational process. So I'm gonna I'm gonna vote for on the side of ⁓ empowering people.
speaker-0: I love it. I love it. Thank you, Julie. Great great perspective. Well, I I've this has been a lot of fun. Really enjoy the conversation. ⁓ again, truly appreciate the partnership that we have with Project Tomorrow and and the the the the credibility that comes with the longstanding work you've done, the relationships, your understanding of of K twelve and and what leaders need and and what's gonna resonate. It's just been just a pleasure to to be able work with you and then to continue to do this work ⁓ together. So I really appreciate it.
speaker-1: Much trip. ⁓ our team is loving this opportunity as well. We're super invigorated and excited about once again, as I said, sort of marrying our talents and assets with ⁓ a partner that shares our values.
speaker-0: Great. Well, thanks again. ⁓ so a c a couple kind of closing notes here. to get the ⁓ EdTech Pulse that was published at the beginning of the year, go to powerschool.com slash ⁓ pulse. ⁓ to get the newest research, we'll we'll put up the the link in the notes and and up on the screen here ⁓ in just a moment to get the ⁓ the the latest back to school edition of Ed Tech Pulse and and get all the The great findings that we talked about and and a lot more. ⁓ so definitely check that out. thank you very much for joining the Stronger School Podcast today. We'd really appreciate you investing some time ⁓ to enjoy this program. And I hope you did enjoy it. If you did, ⁓ please recommend it. And of course, ⁓ give us a rating, follow us, add us to your subscription feed on wherever you get your podcasts. So Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube. and ⁓ again, give us some feedback along the way. So thanks very much and ⁓ have a great day.
