WEBVTT
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The man who owned Skinwalker Ranch for 20 years says
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the current owner is doing it wrong. Not the equipment,
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not the money, the entire approach. And Robert Bigelow told
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Brandon Fugle to stop what he has been doing and
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completely change direction. Hey Ufologists, I'm Christina Gomez and this
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is your UFO News Update. Today we're covering part two
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of the Bigelow and Fugle episode. If you missed part one,
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00:00:25.649 --> 00:00:27.969
they met on camera last week for the first time
9
00:00:28.250 --> 00:00:32.310
and covered the ranch's past mainly. In part two, Bigelow
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00:00:32.369 --> 00:00:37.570
tells Fugle where the investigation should go next. Bigelow's position
11
00:00:37.649 --> 00:00:41.679
is that measuring the phenomenon is not enough. For years,
12
00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:45.640
the History Channel series has run on one method, provoke
13
00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:50.420
the site mainly with rockets, then record what reacts. Bigelow
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says that method has reached its limit.
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You have a problem of having to figure out how
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can you stop poking the hornet's nest or the bear?
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And you have an audience that that wants something dynamic,
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something more, something alarming. And it's no skin off their
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nose if somebody gets hurt or worse on your watch.
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And we're not entitled. It's not as though we're entitled
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to something. We have to earn it.
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Forcing a reaction is not the same as making contact.
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Bigelow says the team has been treating the ranch as
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a laboratory and that this turns the team into a
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threat in the eyes of whatever is present. He told
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Fugel a one-way demonstration has very little value and that
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the goal is a two-way exchange that the team hasn't
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yet earned. The advice is pretty interesting. Given the history
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between these two guys, when Fugel bought the ranch in 2016,
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he got the land and nothing else. No guidance from
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Bigelow and none of that research that he collected. Bigelow
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had studied the property for about 20 years, first through
33
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his own group, the National Institute for Discovery Science, and
34
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then later through a Defense Intelligence Agency contract worth about
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$ 22 million. So that work produced years of logs, sensor data,
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and lab results, and almost none of it has ever
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been released for outside review. The privately funded findings stayed private,
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and the government-funded portion is still held by the government today.
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So Fugel started from zero. He took the opposite path
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and documented what his team captured in public on television
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in front of an entire audience, while Bigelow kept his
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findings behind a wall and then sold the property with
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almost nothing passed on, which is what makes this whole
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conversation both interesting and in some ways a little bit confusing.
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Why is Bigelow offering direction now, ten years later after
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handing over the land and none of the answers? Bigelow
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claims that whatever operates on that land doesn't read your words,
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it reads what you mean, and he told Fugle that
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no one can fake sincerity there.
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So you're trying to establish eventually mutual trust. That's not easy.
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You're having to be genuine about the way that you're
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thinking because you're transparent telepathically. If you're not honest, it's
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your loss. They're going to know. that you're not honest,
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you're being devious, you have other agendas and so on
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and so on. So you're just fooling yourself. You're just
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kidding yourself.
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Bigelow's claim is that a hidden agenda cannot stay hidden.
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A film crew chasing a dramatic moment, a team pushing
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for a result, a visitor who wants a story to
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tell later, all of that reads through. And Bigelow says
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this is why decades of measurement have produced reactions but
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very little understanding. The intention behind the work keeps getting
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in the way of the work. And the discipline he
64
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is describing is much harder than it sounds because the
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hardest person to be honest with truly is yourself. It
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means watching your own thinking and separating what is sincere
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from asking yourself, what can I get out of this moment?
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On most research sites, that would not matter. But Bigelow
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is saying that this one is different and that this
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all decides the outcome. Bigelow points to accounts his own
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researchers recorded years ago, and in one, an investigator felt
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something move through him and then speak to him.
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It was a great opportunity for a very short dialogue.
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It was missed because of the shock. Eric wasn't expecting anything, obviously.
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And it was all telepathic, of course. And it says,
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we are watching you. And so you wouldn't say, you know, well,
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F you. You would say, well, hello. What can I
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do for you? Or something like that. To start, even
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start a dialogue would be incredibly interesting and successful, not
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just as an experiment, but something much more serious as
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an engagement of some kind.
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Bigelow and Knapp also raise a harder problem. They're not
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sure the ranch holds a single intelligence. The behavior ranges
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from playful to harmful, from lights and craft in the
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sky to figures inside homes. If more than one thing
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is present, then opening a conversation with one may tell
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you nothing about the others. And if something can sense
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what you want before you speak, would you keep pointing
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cameras at it or would you try a different way? Well,
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you tell me. Fugel says he feels a new push
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to move away from proving the phenomenon is real and
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towards trying to communicate with it.
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The origin and the agenda associated with the phenomenon. at
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Skinwalker Ranch. That's one thing that has driven me since,
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since my experience was the desire to understand the origin
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and the agenda associated with what we are interacting with,
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with what we are observing, what you're prescribing as a,
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it is a, we're talking 180 degree shift. Yeah.
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Brandon. Hey, Let's do it.
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I welcome your guidance.
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Let's do it.
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I appreciate the spirit and also the intelligence behind what
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you're advising.
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But Fugel also added caution. A change this large cannot
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happen overnight. And his team already has all their work
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lined up. He also said the phenomenon doesn't perform for
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cameras on command. When it does show up on film,
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he said, it's usually by accident. And Fugel said that
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the moments that felt closest to real contact didn't come
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from any drills, they actually came from people. He described
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bringing Rabbi Ariel Zadok into the property to perform a
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chant meant to open a doorway. In the middle of summer,
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in front of one of the old homesteads, the temperature
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dropped really fast and the thermal cameras recorded a black
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ice cold patch in the doorway. Those cameras are FLIR units,
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short for forward-looking infrared, which reads heat instead of light.
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And when the men walked into the spot, they described
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the exact same thing.
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And they took steps into the homestead area, into Homestead 2.
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They all described it as entering a deep freezer.
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A measurable cold pocket on a summer day during a
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prayer recorded on heat-sensing gear. Fugel described a second case,
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a guard who felt ill and was photographed at night,
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and the images filled with white orbs. The guard said
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he felt well afterward, and no one had set it up.
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So Bigelow's point is that these results followed intent, not
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forced by any means. But what I find shocking is
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that this entire conversation... Bigelow did not explain why the
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data was never handed to Fugle. The two only touched
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on the public demand for proof, with Fugle noting that
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the raw data is hard for most people to interpret.
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So if he's not setting the record on the old data,
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why speak up at all and why now? Well, one
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interpretation is actually personal. Bigelow is 82 years old now,
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and he has spent this stage of his life on
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the question he wants answers before it all ends. His
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wife of 55 years, Diane, died in 2020 after a
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long illness, and he has said he has made peace
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with not having every answer. A few months after her death,
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he founded the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies, which funds
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research into whether human consciousness survives death. That institute sits
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under his educational foundation, one of two non-profits that he runs,
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and the other being a medical foundation. So seen in
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that way, his advice to Fugle lines up with the
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rest of his late work. He's not trying to close
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out the old files. He is pointing Fugle toward the
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question that occupies Bigelow now. Whether something is present, and
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whether it can be spoken to, and whether any of
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this continues after we're gone. Do you want Skinwalker Ranch
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to keep chasing Harlan? proof, or is Bigelow right that
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the next step is sincere contact? Let me know your
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thoughts in the comments below. I'm Christina Gomez, that is
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it for today. I will see you again tomorrow at
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12pm PST for another UFO News update. Be safe, and remember,
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keep your eyes on the skies.
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The man who owned Skinwalker Ranch for 20 years says
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the current owner is doing it wrong. Not the equipment,
3
00:00:06.549 --> 00:00:10.539
not the money, the entire approach. And Robert Bigelow told
4
00:00:10.580 --> 00:00:13.619
Brandon Fugle to stop what he has been doing and
5
00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:18.019
completely change direction. Hey Ufologists, I'm Christina Gomez and this
6
00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:21.839
is your UFO News Update. Today we're covering part two
7
00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:25.429
of the Bigelow and Fugle episode. If you missed part one,
8
00:00:25.649 --> 00:00:27.969
they met on camera last week for the first time
9
00:00:28.250 --> 00:00:32.310
and covered the ranch's past mainly. In part two, Bigelow
10
00:00:32.369 --> 00:00:37.570
tells Fugle where the investigation should go next. Bigelow's position
11
00:00:37.649 --> 00:00:41.679
is that measuring the phenomenon is not enough. For years,
12
00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:45.640
the History Channel series has run on one method, provoke
13
00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:50.420
the site mainly with rockets, then record what reacts. Bigelow
14
00:00:50.460 --> 00:00:53.560
says that method has reached its limit.
15
00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:56.789
You have a problem of having to figure out how
16
00:00:56.850 --> 00:01:00.409
can you stop poking the hornet's nest or the bear?
17
00:01:01.829 --> 00:01:09.170
And you have an audience that that wants something dynamic,
18
00:01:09.370 --> 00:01:15.780
something more, something alarming. And it's no skin off their
19
00:01:15.859 --> 00:01:25.040
nose if somebody gets hurt or worse on your watch.
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And we're not entitled. It's not as though we're entitled
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00:01:29.700 --> 00:01:30.920
to something. We have to earn it.
22
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Forcing a reaction is not the same as making contact.
23
00:01:35.260 --> 00:01:38.510
Bigelow says the team has been treating the ranch as
24
00:01:38.530 --> 00:01:42.049
a laboratory and that this turns the team into a
25
00:01:42.250 --> 00:01:45.469
threat in the eyes of whatever is present. He told
26
00:01:45.549 --> 00:01:49.750
Fugel a one-way demonstration has very little value and that
27
00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.319
the goal is a two-way exchange that the team hasn't
28
00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.510
yet earned. The advice is pretty interesting. Given the history
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00:01:57.549 --> 00:02:02.079
between these two guys, when Fugel bought the ranch in 2016,
30
00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:05.659
he got the land and nothing else. No guidance from
31
00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:09.599
Bigelow and none of that research that he collected. Bigelow
32
00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:12.669
had studied the property for about 20 years, first through
33
00:02:12.710 --> 00:02:16.550
his own group, the National Institute for Discovery Science, and
34
00:02:16.590 --> 00:02:20.870
then later through a Defense Intelligence Agency contract worth about
35
00:02:20.870 --> 00:02:26.349
$ 22 million. So that work produced years of logs, sensor data,
36
00:02:26.710 --> 00:02:29.449
and lab results, and almost none of it has ever
37
00:02:29.509 --> 00:02:34.909
been released for outside review. The privately funded findings stayed private,
38
00:02:35.250 --> 00:02:38.750
and the government-funded portion is still held by the government today.
39
00:02:39.189 --> 00:02:42.669
So Fugel started from zero. He took the opposite path
40
00:02:43.009 --> 00:02:46.500
and documented what his team captured in public on television
41
00:02:46.780 --> 00:02:49.860
in front of an entire audience, while Bigelow kept his
42
00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.080
findings behind a wall and then sold the property with
43
00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:56.400
almost nothing passed on, which is what makes this whole
44
00:02:56.500 --> 00:03:01.879
conversation both interesting and in some ways a little bit confusing.
45
00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:07.060
Why is Bigelow offering direction now, ten years later after
46
00:03:07.139 --> 00:03:10.280
handing over the land and none of the answers? Bigelow
47
00:03:10.340 --> 00:03:14.639
claims that whatever operates on that land doesn't read your words,
48
00:03:14.979 --> 00:03:18.280
it reads what you mean, and he told Fugle that
49
00:03:18.460 --> 00:03:20.479
no one can fake sincerity there.
50
00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:25.990
So you're trying to establish eventually mutual trust. That's not easy.
51
00:03:29.129 --> 00:03:34.849
You're having to be genuine about the way that you're
52
00:03:34.889 --> 00:03:45.159
thinking because you're transparent telepathically. If you're not honest, it's
53
00:03:45.180 --> 00:03:49.960
your loss. They're going to know. that you're not honest,
54
00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.659
you're being devious, you have other agendas and so on
55
00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:56.259
and so on. So you're just fooling yourself. You're just
56
00:03:56.300 --> 00:03:57.000
kidding yourself.
57
00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:01.099
Bigelow's claim is that a hidden agenda cannot stay hidden.
58
00:04:01.659 --> 00:04:05.270
A film crew chasing a dramatic moment, a team pushing
59
00:04:05.349 --> 00:04:07.949
for a result, a visitor who wants a story to
60
00:04:08.009 --> 00:04:12.169
tell later, all of that reads through. And Bigelow says
61
00:04:12.310 --> 00:04:16.610
this is why decades of measurement have produced reactions but
62
00:04:16.709 --> 00:04:21.620
very little understanding. The intention behind the work keeps getting
63
00:04:21.660 --> 00:04:24.980
in the way of the work. And the discipline he
64
00:04:25.060 --> 00:04:28.300
is describing is much harder than it sounds because the
65
00:04:28.420 --> 00:04:32.519
hardest person to be honest with truly is yourself. It
66
00:04:32.579 --> 00:04:35.730
means watching your own thinking and separating what is sincere
67
00:04:35.990 --> 00:04:39.029
from asking yourself, what can I get out of this moment?
68
00:04:39.370 --> 00:04:43.550
On most research sites, that would not matter. But Bigelow
69
00:04:43.610 --> 00:04:46.660
is saying that this one is different and that this
70
00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:50.920
all decides the outcome. Bigelow points to accounts his own
71
00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:55.459
researchers recorded years ago, and in one, an investigator felt
72
00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:58.379
something move through him and then speak to him.
73
00:04:58.819 --> 00:05:01.480
It was a great opportunity for a very short dialogue.
74
00:05:02.139 --> 00:05:05.759
It was missed because of the shock. Eric wasn't expecting anything, obviously.
75
00:05:06.430 --> 00:05:09.829
And it was all telepathic, of course. And it says,
76
00:05:09.910 --> 00:05:14.610
we are watching you. And so you wouldn't say, you know, well,
77
00:05:14.910 --> 00:05:19.629
F you. You would say, well, hello. What can I
78
00:05:19.689 --> 00:05:23.129
do for you? Or something like that. To start, even
79
00:05:23.180 --> 00:05:28.120
start a dialogue would be incredibly interesting and successful, not
80
00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:31.000
just as an experiment, but something much more serious as
81
00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:32.959
an engagement of some kind.
82
00:05:33.220 --> 00:05:36.980
Bigelow and Knapp also raise a harder problem. They're not
83
00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:41.920
sure the ranch holds a single intelligence. The behavior ranges
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from playful to harmful, from lights and craft in the
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sky to figures inside homes. If more than one thing
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is present, then opening a conversation with one may tell
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you nothing about the others. And if something can sense
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what you want before you speak, would you keep pointing
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cameras at it or would you try a different way? Well,
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you tell me. Fugel says he feels a new push
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to move away from proving the phenomenon is real and
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towards trying to communicate with it.
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The origin and the agenda associated with the phenomenon. at
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Skinwalker Ranch. That's one thing that has driven me since,
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since my experience was the desire to understand the origin
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and the agenda associated with what we are interacting with,
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with what we are observing, what you're prescribing as a,
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it is a, we're talking 180 degree shift. Yeah.
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Brandon. Hey, Let's do it.
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I welcome your guidance.
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Let's do it.
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I appreciate the spirit and also the intelligence behind what
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you're advising.
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But Fugel also added caution. A change this large cannot
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happen overnight. And his team already has all their work
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lined up. He also said the phenomenon doesn't perform for
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cameras on command. When it does show up on film,
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he said, it's usually by accident. And Fugel said that
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the moments that felt closest to real contact didn't come
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from any drills, they actually came from people. He described
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bringing Rabbi Ariel Zadok into the property to perform a
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chant meant to open a doorway. In the middle of summer,
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in front of one of the old homesteads, the temperature
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dropped really fast and the thermal cameras recorded a black
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ice cold patch in the doorway. Those cameras are FLIR units,
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short for forward-looking infrared, which reads heat instead of light.
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And when the men walked into the spot, they described
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the exact same thing.
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And they took steps into the homestead area, into Homestead 2.
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They all described it as entering a deep freezer.
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A measurable cold pocket on a summer day during a
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prayer recorded on heat-sensing gear. Fugel described a second case,
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a guard who felt ill and was photographed at night,
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and the images filled with white orbs. The guard said
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he felt well afterward, and no one had set it up.
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So Bigelow's point is that these results followed intent, not
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forced by any means. But what I find shocking is
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that this entire conversation... Bigelow did not explain why the
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data was never handed to Fugle. The two only touched
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on the public demand for proof, with Fugle noting that
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the raw data is hard for most people to interpret.
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So if he's not setting the record on the old data,
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why speak up at all and why now? Well, one
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interpretation is actually personal. Bigelow is 82 years old now,
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and he has spent this stage of his life on
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the question he wants answers before it all ends. His
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wife of 55 years, Diane, died in 2020 after a
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long illness, and he has said he has made peace
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with not having every answer. A few months after her death,
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he founded the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies, which funds
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research into whether human consciousness survives death. That institute sits
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under his educational foundation, one of two non-profits that he runs,
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and the other being a medical foundation. So seen in
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that way, his advice to Fugle lines up with the
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rest of his late work. He's not trying to close
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out the old files. He is pointing Fugle toward the
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question that occupies Bigelow now. Whether something is present, and
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whether it can be spoken to, and whether any of
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this continues after we're gone. Do you want Skinwalker Ranch
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to keep chasing Harlan? proof, or is Bigelow right that
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the next step is sincere contact? Let me know your
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thoughts in the comments below. I'm Christina Gomez, that is
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it for today. I will see you again tomorrow at
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12pm PST for another UFO News update. Be safe, and remember,
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keep your eyes on the skies.
