Ep 57: Orthorexia in Men: When ‘Healthy Eating’ Becomes an Eating Disorder w/Jason Wood

Jen Elliott: All right. Hello everyone and welcome back to Stop Collaborate and Listen, the podcast where we have honest conversations about eating disorders, recovery, movement, and all the ways to build a healthy relationship with a food and our bodies. My name is Jen.
Allison Tucker: And I'm Alison.
Jen Elliott: And we are joined today by a really cool special guest that is a referral from our our favorite podcast guest recruiter, Jason Wood. He is the executive director of ANAD, and we are so excited to talk with him today.
Jason Wood: Hey everyone,
Allison Tucker: Hmm.
Jason Wood: thanks so much for having me here today.
Allison Tucker: So Jason is a published author, a memoirist, and as Jen mentioned, the executive director of ANAD the nation's leading nonprofit, providing free peer support services to anyone that's struggling with an eating disorder. So this is dedicated to erasing the deeply ingrained stigmas, stereotypes, and barriers that surround eating disorders and mental health. Jason uses the power of storytelling and community care to ensure no one has to navigate their recovery journey alone.
Jen Elliott: Jason is a passionate advocate for early intervention and youth support and has championed critical initiatives that address teen and young adult mental health, like the launch and development of the ASAP Youth Program, an initiative designed to provide young people with the vocabulary, resources, and inclusive spaces needed to combat eating disorders early on. Jason's background in creative writing and public speaking shapes his core belief that vulnerability that vulnerability heals. Whether directing community led stage productions like This Is My Brave at Northwestern University, serving on the volunteer board of writing in silence. or steering and its pure support network. His work is consistently grounded in empathy, equity, and the transformative power of lived experience. What an introduction, Jason. Welcome.
Allison Tucker: Hmm. I know.
Jason Wood: Wow. Yeah,
Jen Elliott: Welcome in.
Jason Wood: I couldn't have said that better myself. I sound
Allison Tucker: Yeah.
Jason Wood: pretty impressive
Jen Elliott: Ha ha.
Jason Wood: when you put it through that lens, but yeah, yeah, thanks so much.
Jen Elliott: Yeah. You're you're pretty impressive for sure. For sure.
Allison Tucker: Absolutely. Yes. Before
Jen Elliott: Yeah.
Allison Tucker: you get into telling us lots about lots about ANAD and also just kind of what we're talking about today is the slippery slope of diet culture for men. but first it's Friday and we've arrived and we wanna hear how you're doing, how your week's been, maybe what you're up to this weekend, anything fun you wanna share before we dive in.
Jason Wood: Yeah. So it's been one, it's been a great week because it's August and you can actually go outside here in Michigan. Sometimes it's like miserable at this time of year, but it's actually been really nice out. So spending a lot of time outside with the pups and yeah, fun fact we also just listed our house. So I've been dealing with the realtor and all of that fun stuff in the background. But, you know, that just means there's new exciting adventures coming.
Allison Tucker: God, that is incredible. Yay, are you moving car?
Jen Elliott: Exactly. Yes.
Jason Wood: Yeah, so we're looking to head down south. So I think we're looking at Florida, 'cause we've had enough of these
Jen Elliott: Hmm. wow.
Allison Tucker: wait.
Jason Wood: Michigan winters. So yeah, somewhere where the snow doesn't fly so often.
Jen Elliott: Sounds lovely. That sounds
Allison Tucker: That's so exciting, yeah.
Jason Wood: Yeah.
Jen Elliott: lovely. my gosh. Can you tell us about your pups real quick? Their names, what they're like.
Jason Wood: Yeah, so we have two rescues. One of them's Calvin. he's a Jack Russell. And then the other one is Benji. He is just a a mix of everything, I think. And he's our little tank. He the other day he came bulldozing down the stairs and th I think he fell down half of and I'm like all concerned, I'm running over there, you know, save his life and stuff. He just gets up wagging his tail, doesn't even care. Like he's just he's just along for the ride. So there's
Jen Elliott: But to say.
Jason Wood: never a dull moment with these two.
Allison Tucker: Ha ha
Jen Elliott: That's amazing. we love talking about our pets on this podcast. So thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing.
Allison Tucker: Yes. Yeah. And love that Michigan is is treating you to some some delightful weather before you're before you're gone. That's kind of a nice a nice silver lining. Yeah. I feel like it's
Jason Wood: Yeah, see it's it's saying, It's so nice now, why leave? Like it was almost waiting for me. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jen Elliott: Exactly. Yeah.
Allison Tucker: It's the Hail Mary, yeah. Getting you to stay. That's
Jen Elliott: I feel like that always happens. Like sometimes when I get my like before I get my hair cut, I'm like, what should I do with it? And it like looks gorgeous. And I'm like, well, I should do nothing, right? Even though all the weeks before that I've like, I just want to shave it off. So life has a way of doing that for sure. For sure. Yeah. What about you, Allison? What do you got going on this weekend? What was your week like?
Allison Tucker: Week was long. Long and good, fulfilling. but we are glad that the week is over. we are meeting up with some friends tonight just to hang out and grab some pizza and hang out with their kiddos. And I'm gonna go to the farmers market in Bloomington tomorrow with my mom and sister. So yeah, kinda low P
Jen Elliott: That sounds lovely.
Allison Tucker: yes. Enjoying so it is it is beautiful today here in Indiana, like high of eighty four, I think. But we're getting like one big last, I hope last. I'm putting that into motion. Push of like really freaking hot, like ninety four, ninety four, ninety four, like next week. So we're gonna we're gonna take this weekend and enjoy what's ahead.
Jason Wood: Yeah.
Jen Elliott: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. We'll
Jason Wood: Yeah. Enjoy it while you can. Keep it down there too. Please don't let it cross the state border.
Jen Elliott: try we'll try our best. Yeah. Hopefully it's the last one. Hopefully it's last one. Yeah.
Allison Tucker: No kidding. Yeah, we've
Jason Wood: Yeah.
Allison Tucker: got like fake fall coming up. I'm sure that'll burn us, you know, in September, but whatever. Jen, what about yes as the Midwest does. Yeah. Jen might do.
Jen Elliott: As the Midwest does. Yeah. Yeah. It's been it's been a good week. It's been like a month this week only. Like it's been a lot of things this week. but some good things. And then this weekend is gonna be pretty low-key and chill. have family game night and pizza night with my family tomorrow. which I'm excited for because we finally get to meet my sister's boyfriend after like five years. So we're so excited. She's like, don't
Jason Wood: Sounds like.
Jen Elliott: make it a big deal. But I'm like, I don't
Allison Tucker: Yeah.
Jen Elliott: know everything. So yeah, so that'll be good. And then other than that, just chilling and doing some crafts. So nothing too big.
Allison Tucker: Amazing. Good way to round out August.
Jason Wood: That sounds odd. I want to join both of you for the weekend. You both got exciting plans. See, Jen, I I was excited
Jen Elliott: Exactly. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes.
Allison Tucker: Okay. And mostly
Jason Wood: as a kid. my all my siblings were a lot older than me. So I got to be that annoying little brother that would show up when they'd bring their
Jen Elliott: Yes.
Jason Wood: boyfriend or girlfriend over to the house and just make it super awkward for them. And I
Jen Elliott: Sure, sure, sure. Nice.
Jason Wood: cherished that role. Yeah.
Jen Elliott: my gosh. I bet that's amazing. I bet that's amazing. I'm the oldest sister, so I'm always like, I wanna know when I'm gonna meet these people here. Let me tell what's going on. All right. Let's dive in today. Let's talk about some stuff. Jason, take us back to the beginning. Talk to us about your relationship with food, with exercise, with your body, what that was like like growing up and kind of when you started to notice that there was an eating disorder.
Jason Wood: Yeah, so it took me quite a while to realize that there was an eating disorder. It was hiding in plain sight for far too long. But when I go back to childhood, I was in a larger size body. So I was picked on and I was bullied in school because of my appearance. So at a young age, I was already kind of hyper-aware and hypersensitive that people would judge me based upon the way that I looked or that I was different than other people. And that that fueled a lot of that insecurity at a young age. And when I got older and and entered high school, that was when I was first introduced to Weight Watchers. And that was that first informalized dieting that I had seen where suddenly food like held a value and it was good or bad, and I And I I lost that weight. And immediately the people who had been making fun of me were now praising me and applauding me and saying I was doing a great job. And that is really where that disordered relationship with food began. Because food was no longer looked at as something that was fun, as something that was joyful. It was like, okay, what kind of damage can this do to my body, or what kind of damage can this do to my reputation or my social life, or you things like that. And unfortunately, I would cling. To all those food rules that I started to develop as a teenager because I went through several traumatic experiences. I lost both of my parents to cancer at a young age. I fell into hard times financially and personally with relationships. And throughout all of that turmoil, I kept going back to this disordered relationship with food because it gave me some sort of feeling of control, like I had control over a situation that was spiraling out of control. It also gave me a sense of worth because I thought that's pretty much all I could be good at. If everything else was falling apart, at least I could still be really good at dieting, at least I could still be really good at my workout plan. and that kind of festered and and continued to worsen as I went through my late teens, my twenties into my thirties. And it wouldn't be until I was 35 that I would come crashing into rock bottom as kind of the the rigidity around a lot of the different food roles that I had continued to to get stronger and stronger. I would I'd be forced into rock bottom mentally, emotionally, and physically at 35. And and that was when I realized, hey, there's something going on here. my husband voiced some concerns and I was I was listening right away because I didn't want to live like that anymore. I was so tired of living with all these food rules and this obsession with what I look like or what I was eating and and things like that. And that is kind of that's when that shift started. But it took about twenty years from the time that everything began to the time when I first reached out for help.
Jen Elliott: Mm. You highlight so many things that I've heard from clients as well, right? The desire for control, the this might be the only thing that I'm actually really good at, which I think comes up a lot with clients too, but it's incredible to hear that your husband was able to talk to you about it and you were open to receiving it. What was that like? Because I know sometimes it can be hard to hear, right? Or sometimes people don't always necessarily believe that there's a problem going on. So what was that experience like for you?
Jason Wood: Yeah, so I would say when he first started to voice the concerns, it was kind of addressing some of the underlying factors. So it wasn't like he came out initially and was like, you've got an eating disorder or anything like that. It was, I see this unresolved grief that's going on from losing your parents. I see these insecurities and these anxieties that are just eating away at you. Your personality has changed. so he kind of addressed some of the things that were hard to ignore, the things that I was experiencing on a day-to-day basis. And I think that made me more receptive to those initial conversations. It wasn't like this label was being thrown on me right away or this like diagnosis was being thrown on me. I would say for the first couple of months, even after I received the diagnosis from my doctor, I would just refer to it as a weird relationship with food. I wouldn't even go as far as to say it was an eating disorder because in my mind I still didn't think I was as sick as I really was. So I think for me it was maybe talking more about the underlying factors brought it brought a clearer picture to me than just saying, hey, you've got an eating disorder or you we need to get you help or treatment for this. it was rather do you really want to continue to live with all this unresolved grief and this pain and this insecurity and things like that.
Allison Tucker: And kudos to him to being able to like articulate that too. because I'm sure that was like scary for both of you. And and I think we have so many times like loved ones or parents or support people that are so concerned and afraid. And it feels like the right thing to do to be like, Hey, you have this problem and it's it's it's an eating disorder. And I feel the need to point that out to you. And that might be true and also like really not resonate. And too, like we Do work to help people, you know, not always the goal of like, why did this develop? But it's so interesting that obviously it's not, you know, it's multifaceted. It's not just coming from a place of grief where you can find control. It also, you know, what you're talking about with food, this Weight Watchers painting this really big morality clause around how is this damaging my body? Like it's so layered. And it's really cool that that he was able to Like identify some of those deeper things and that that that resonated.
Jason Wood: Yeah, he he gets an A plus for that conversation. He did a a great job. And I know now kind of being on the other side of some of those conversations,
Jen Elliott: Mm-hmm.
Jason Wood: how scary it can be. So I am so grateful that that he was able to kind of navigate that conversation and give me the space to be able to respond in a way Like it I needed time to kind of absorb it myself and to soak it all in because it was a lot. So I really appreciate that space that he gave me and the opportunity to just really embrace it myself. Cause I think he knew that until I actually realized how sick I was, I wasn't going to be able to get the help that I needed. and he couldn't force me to see that, but he could definitely open my eyes and and help me see it.
Allison Tucker: Which, you know, with you you talk about orthorexia, and that can be even harder to identify, right? Because not only is maybe weight loss being praised, but all these behaviors that are rooted in health really do get they're easy to excuse or or easy for people in struggle to make excuses for them being rooted in health, and then what can you say? So were there any tendencies looking back that, you know, helped you kind of identify like, these are Maybe eating disorder behaviors not so much healthy behaviors.
Jason Wood: Yeah, ooh, that's a really good question. Cause with orthorexia, it's such a fine line and it's such a slippery slope. And and for me, I was convinced that what I was doing was the right thing, that I was doing the healthy thing to take care of my body. It was being reinforced by my friends, my co-workers, my physicians even, that I never once thought that some of those behaviors that I had could actually be disordered. But I think when maybe it started to when the first questions started to seep in, it was when we would go out to eat with friends or we would be at social functions and I would see how other people could just very easily adapt to whatever was on the menu. And there was none of this pre-planning. But for me, it was like it had been weeks in advance of anxiety before this. Meal and the day of, like trying to make sure everything goes according to my food plan or my food rules, and then this overwhelming guilt afterwards. And I could see it in my husband and the people around me that that food didn't kind of have that power over them. So I kept trying to figure out why it is so strong for me, why is it so intense for me? Because you we'd go out to eat and you hear somebody say, I'm gonna be good tonight and eat this, or I'm gonna be bad tonight and eat that, and it would justify my behavior. Because I couldn't differentiate that for me it was a full-blown obsession. But for them, you know, they're just casually saying that they don't, they're not really beating themselves up before or after the way that I was. So so it was really, I think, eye-opening when I started to realize that, hey, food has this power over me that I don't see in in the people around me.
Jen Elliott: Yeah, I we I don't think we've talked a lot about orthorexia on the podcast. it's not in the DSM. but yeah, this slippery slope of can you know, like some diet culture behaviors of like I'm gonna check in on my food, I'm gonna make sure I'm exercising right, and it can kind of s go in far in the other direction as well. looking back, are there parts of you that wished someone would have noticed? What was going on sooner?
Jason Wood: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I but I don't blame anybody because one, I had never heard of the term orthorexia. Nobody around me had heard of the term orthorexia. So we really didn't think what was happening in the first place was a dis was an eating disorder or disordered eating at all. we just thought, again, I was following all these different maybe fad diets and the different things we see popularized on social media or in the news. So there really wasn't any red flags to be raised if you don't know what orthorexia. It is in the first place. And I think had somebody raised a red flag earlier on, I would have started to seek help. And I would have realized that, hey, I don't have to live with this. It doesn't have to be like this. But up until somebody finally voiced some concerns, I didn't know any different. I just figured what I was doing was probably pretty close to what everybody else was doing.
Allison Tucker: Hmm. And for our listeners who maybe don't know a ton about orthorexia and maybe they are, you know, super clean or healthy eaters, you know, self perceived, what might those red flags be? What is kind of crossing that line between healthy and disordered eating?
Jason Wood: Yeah, so for me it's when it really starts to impact your day to day life. So one of the warning signs that was very clear is when we would be going on a vacation or a trip out of town. I would spend hours researching restaurants, researching menus beforehand to make sure I could find foods that fit into my food roles at that time. And then we would get there and we would have to follow it to
Jen Elliott: Mm.
Jason Wood: a tea. There was no spontaneity anymore. There was no like, let's go grab a bite to eat now. Or no, I'm like, we gotta eat it this time and we gotta eat this food, and just a lot of rigidity around that. it and to me that's one of those things where it it started to impact my relationship because it made going out with me not that much fun. It made friendships harder to have because I didn't want to just meet friends for a a last minute dinner or a last minute get together. I left the friend's birthday party early one time because the catering went against my food rules and I was scared to be there and the anxiety started to creep in. So it was really starting to impact those personal relationships and those social relationships. and I would say probably another thing was just the fact that I was spending the majority of my time thinking about food in some capacity, thinking about exercise in some capacity, whether it was the anxiety beforehand or the guilt afterwards. It was just consuming me 24-7 pretty much at one point. And and that's when it had crossed that line. That's when it had just gone from maybe just wanting to take care of myself and eat healthy and and things like that to it's a full-blown obsession and it is starting to impact my work, it's impacting my social life, it's impacting everything I do on a day-to-day basis.
Allison Tucker: And that's so interesting, right? Cause they maybe part of the intention started
Jen Elliott: Okay.
Allison Tucker: for health and and being so healthy. And then when we're only focused right on food and exercise and we forget all these other aspects of health, or just even see how it's kind of backfires, right? All these other aspects of our social and mental and emotional and sometimes financial wellness like can get wrapped up in that. And then it's like, what was this actually for? For health or just like to be the cleanest eater? Or, you know, because it's something bigger than that.
Jason Wood: Yeah. I'm glad you brought up the financial health too. I was in an interview with a newspaper and they asked me what the financial toll was of orthorexia, and I'm like, I never really thought about that. And I'm glad I didn't calculate the numbers because my husband would probably would not be happy about that. But it really did take a financial toll as well, because you do become so fixated on all those health foods that are of course uppriced and upcharged and the all the gym memberships and the physical or the personal training and the different health routines like that. So it really does take a toll on your finances. orthorexia I think in particular because again you're trying to eat these super clean foods all the time. that of course you go to the grocery store and and they're a lot more expensive than the other items.
Jen Elliott: Before we kind of talk about dive into our conversation a little bit more about like men, particularly and what gets missed, can you talk to us a little bit about your recovery journey? What did it look like for you after your husband brought up some concerns?
Jason Wood: Yeah, so it was a little messy at first because I I went to the doctor and I explained everything
Jen Elliott: Mm-hmm.
Jason Wood: to him right after I'd had the conversation with my husband. And I told him about the food rules. I told him about the anxieties, the insecurities, the grief. And during that conversation is when he diagnosed me at that point with an unspecified eating disorder. I still remember it being on my chart and it said, unspecified eating disorder slash bulimia or something like that. And it just boggled my mind because I'm like, I'm I'm not bulimic. I know I'm not battling bulimia, so why is that even on there? So receiving that diagnosis kind of made me again question if I was that sick. because it's like, wait, this kind of just feels like other on a test or a survey. It's like it's it's not that important. So when I started to to reach out for resources, I didn't even know who to who to contact first. My doctor is like, this is a unique situation. why don't you just go home and Google? somebody that can help with this, you know, fixation. Healthy, clean eating and being a guy in the eating disorder space. So I literally went home and I think I typed in Google like guy with weird relationship with food wants to eat healthy, has lots of anxiety, or something like that. And needless to say, it didn't come up with many, many search results at that point. So it made
Jen Elliott: Yeah.
Jason Wood: finding a treatment provider difficult because I didn't have the language I needed at that point to be able to describe what was really going on. I knew I had this weird relationship, but outside of that, I didn't know the term orthorexia or or any of this. I couldn't comprehend really what was happening still. I ended up reaching out to about 20 different providers before I ended up connecting with my therapist who I would work with. And then I brought a dietitian onto the team. And I would work with them for years through healing that relationship with myself first and foremost. before we could even heal the relationship with food and body, we had to heal that relationship with myself. So my therapist told me right away, he's like, I'm not well versed in eating disorders. I haven't worked with a lot of clients with eating disorders, but I see the underlying factors that are contributing to yours, and we can work through that. So there was a lot of time spent through. Through grieving my parents. There was a lot of time spent through grieving my former self. And being able to also find some space for mindfulness and the power of the pause and not being so reactive all the time to things. I was very reactive. I was a very black and white thinker. So he really tried his best to pull me into that gray area. So suddenly everything in my life wasn't good or bad. Or, you know, it wasn't gonna kill me if I had a bite of the this wrong food that was outside of my my comfort zone. So we just did a lot of work there. The this the the activity that still to me is a turning point in my recovery is when I told him, I was like, How am I gonna tell my friends? How am I gonna tell my family that I've been dealing with this eating disorder for 20 years? Like they're gonna think that I was a liar, that I've been hiding this from them. And he said, Why don't you write your story out? And maybe that will help you better share it with them. So that's exactly what I did. I started writing it out. And as I was reading it back to myself, I'm like, hey, the guy. In this story went through some really tough times, but he's actually a pretty good guy, and he was just doing the best he could. And it was in that moment that I started to gain that self-compassion. That was when I realized that guy in that story is me. And I could kind of see myself through an objective perspective. And that is when it all started to click. Was once I was able to really start to find that self-compassion that I had been lacking for so long. Suddenly it was a little bit easier to follow those meal plans, and it was a little bit easier to start that recovery. Journey, but I had to work through my relationship with myself before I could ever even touch the relationship with food and body.
Allison Tucker: Yeah.
Jen Elliott: Snap it over here. Man, that's so many things you said. Yes. The self-compassion piece, huge. we have talked on this podcast, and I talk about this on my socials as well. That and Alison, I know you say this too: that like people say they don't work with eating disorders. Like, you do work with eating disorders, it might not just be like identified, right? and your therapists, like So incredible to be able to identify the underlying factors because we all the time say eating disorders are not about the food. It's about what's underneath it and what the food represents. And so for a provider to be willing to say, I might not be well versed, but I can understand what's going on underneath and let's explore that. I mean, that's the work that I do with my clients, right? Like, yes, there's some eating disorder specifics, but a lot of it is why what is doing this behavior How is this helping you? How is this supporting you? How's it helping you cope? Right. And so that's really, really cool to hear that that was such a big part of your experience too. I thought.
Jason Wood: Yeah. Yeah. I got really lucky when I was able to connect with him. and and it's one of those things I tell when I'm out sharing my story, I tell people all the time, the food is just the tangible evidence that there's something else going on. Like it was never really about the food. It was about everything else that was contributing to those decisions I was making.
Jen Elliott: Amazing. We love it.
Allison Tucker: You had mentioned when your doctor told you this, you know, incredible, like what I'm thinking of now is like an AI prompt. Like what a Google search at the time. you know Right. We're like,
Jason Wood: Yeah, see I needed AI back then, yeah. Maybe, I don't know.
Jen Elliott: Yeah. All right, right.
Allison Tucker: you know, take it. this, you know, extensive Google search. Obviously, we're doing a series on men's eating disorders and we know that lots of people fall through the cracks when it comes to eating disorders, but also particularly men, because we don't think of of men necessarily as being the poster children for eating disorders. So what do like maybe messages that men get about food, fitness, bodies, masculinity that might make disordered eating behaviors or disordered behaviors in general easier to hide or easier to miss?
Jason Wood: I think first of all it's very easy because society's not looking for them. So that that helps first and foremost is that society does not think of men when it comes to body image issues or things like that. Or I think there's a the misconception around eating disorders that it's all about vanity. And of course, again, society doesn't tie men naturally with vanity concerns. So they don't put two and two together there, even though I mean we could have a whole nother podcast episode on how eating disorders are not about. But that's for another conversation. I
Jen Elliott: Yeah.
Jason Wood: I think also for men, it is we're not supposed to show any type of weakness or ask for any type of help. And it's something that's ingrained in us at a young age. And it's it's just kind of this unwritten generational code that I feel like gets passed down. from from generation to generation, where it's like, you've got to be the strong, silent one. You've got to be the one to take care of everybody. So we end up putting a lot of this pressure on ourselves. And then we never reach out for help. It's all we we can handle this on our own. We can do this on our own. And then we see what happens when when that when we have that mindset, that's when the mental health concerns start to really pile on one another. I think food again, food and body are two of those very easy things we can we can go to for control, for comfort, for support when it feels like we can't go to anybody else. So we start to control what we're doing. Food and body image row wise. add in the fact too that social media I think has also played a factor for men when it comes to body image. I go online and I type in men's mental health, and all of a sudden I see all of these like gym influencers and these gym bros just showing off their six packs and all their muscles and all of this. And it just sets those unrealistic expectations for men. But we're not gonna say anything to anybody. We're not gonna say, th those pictures made me you know insecure or I feel like I I don't look like him because that could get your man card taken away. So it's kind of like it's it's double jeopardy there when it comes to to dealing with with body image concerns. And I I I go back to the popular Barbie movie from a couple of years ago where that they did a good job of representing different body types for Barbie throughout the movie, but Ken looked the exact same throughout that entire movie. And I think that that's one of those things that we see kind of played out in pop culture where men are just expected to look this certain way. And we don't really talk about body diversity. We don't talk about the different shapes that men's bodies can come in. We if we do, it's usually with a negative connotation. So it it does, it it leads to a lot of those conversations that I think are completely overlooked in the first place, that we that we need to be having, but again, we don't tie men with body image. And and that right there I think is where a lot of people fall through the cracks.
Allison Tucker: Never thought about the Barbie movie like that. Thank you for like bringing that up.
Jen Elliott: Yeah.
Allison Tucker: You're so right. And it's such a good example of how we were like so close, you know, like or we've zoomed in on one issue and we're gonna fix this one little piece of this broader like problem, you know, with systems just about how bodies should look and lots of other systems in there. yeah, that's such an interesting
Jen Elliott: Agreed, agreed. The question that came to my mind, and this is not on our notes here, is like with these conversations about body image with men, do you feel like there's like a discomfort level in talking about it? Particularly because men aren't supposed to talk about emotions. You're supposed to be fine, the stoic, right? And so to talk about something that's vulnerable like this, I imagine feels pretty uncomfortable. so yeah, are you noticing that at all?
Jason Wood: It's very uncomfortable. It is super uncomfortable in the society. And I
Jen Elliott: Yeah.
Jason Wood: will I'll tell you a story from the 1990s. So we'll go back way in time. I was in second grade on the on the playground playing with like the tire swing or something. And I got stung by a bee. And immediately like I was in a lot of pain. Like that sucker was swelling, my finger was throbbing. It really hurt. But I made a decision right then and there that I wasn't going to to tell my teacher, I wasn't gonna go to the nurse because I didn't want to be the crybaby. I didn't want to be the boy who had to ask for help. I was already the fat kid.
Jen Elliott: Mm.
Jason Wood: I couldn't have this label added to my repertoire. So it was like, okay, I gotta, or my resume, I gotta, you know, Just keep it to myself. So I sat there the rest of the afternoon, and that's what I did. I just clutched my finger. I kept the pain to myself, and it just continued to worsen throughout the day. When I finally got home that night, my mom, like moms do, noticed right away and went and got the tweezers out and pulled the stinger out and put some ice on there. And the healing was like instant. And to me, that is just the perfect analogy to what we deal with when it comes to mental health concerns as guys. We keep these this pain to ourselves rather than sharing. It with other people. If we shared it with other people, there would be healing. We would start to relieve some of that pain. But we keep it suppressed because even as a second grader, I had that mindset that men don't talk about these things, guys don't speak about this. and it wasn't even that it came from home. My dad was actually a man that was very in touch with his emotions, so there wasn't a lot of that stoicism at home. I was picking it up in the media, I was picking it up from my friends, from maybe uncles. and an extended family. So it wasn't even like this was something that I was picking up just at home. It was just a broader societal thing. And I see it play out in our support groups today. I lead our men's peer support group at ANAD. And it is really, really difficult for guys to come and open up and share some of their concerns and ask for help. And the thing that really makes the difference is when they can see another guy set that example. And that's why those peer support groups are so important because we can go and if one of us is vulnerable, it suddenly gives an invitation to everybody else in that space to be vulnerable as well. And that's usually when men start to speak up. But the truth is a lot of us just don't know how to do it because we've never seen anybody do it before.
Jen Elliott: The power of representation, the power of community, of vulnerability. Like, yeah. Wow, wow, wow. Thank you for sharing that story because yeah, it really illustrates how deeply ingrained, how young we are when we start to receive these messages and how it can impact us throughout the rest of our life with things. I thought I had a question.
Allison Tucker: It was a good one then.
Jen Elliott: Nope, I d I don't have it. It's gone. It's gone
Jason Wood: I left you speechless with that story. See? That's the power of the nineties. That's what happens.
Jen Elliott: if there was one there. You did. Man, it was it was so good. Yes, right. Yes. I'm rewatching Friends right now and we're we're
Jason Wood: Nice.
Jen Elliott: in the late nineties right now, so I'm like, ugh living living in that enjoying it. So yeah.
Allison Tucker: I'm watching adults right now. Have you guys heard of adults? It's like
Jen Elliott: Mm mm.
Allison Tucker: very funny, silly on Hulu. And Jake Shane is in the new season. And some girls ordering a croissant. This is kind of like 90s crude 2000s. But he goes, honey, how old are you? And she's like, I'm 25. And she's like, my gosh, you were alive like when 9/11 happened? Get her a croissant. She was alive when like He's like eighteen, nineteen,
Jen Elliott: my gosh.
Allison Tucker: twenty year olds.
Jason Wood: Gosh.
Allison Tucker: I'm like, my god, I'm old.
Jason Wood: Yeah. Yeah, we were so complete
Jen Elliott: my gosh.
Jason Wood: side note. Well, not total side note. I was working with some of my student ambassadors at ANAD, and they've got been approved to do some community service work around the 911 anniversary coming up this year.
Allison Tucker: Mm. Yeah.
Jason Wood: And when we all got together, they had us mentors and us adults share with the students what nine eleven even was and what it was what it meant to us. And I'm like, okay, this is making me feel like the old guy now, because I remember it very
Jen Elliott: Yeah.
Jason Wood: vividly. I was already like I was in high school. school at the time. But it's
Jen Elliott: Yeah.
Jason Wood: it's one of those things where it's very hard for me to remember that this younger generation, a lot of these things that to me are just, yeah, that happened. We've I've been through that. They have no context of it because they didn't live through it.
Allison Tucker: Yeah, and I for like forget, yeah,
Jen Elliott: Yeah, that's wild.
Allison Tucker: that like Gen Z, Jen Alpha, like that they were born after that happened. Duh. Why yeah. So
Jason Wood: Yeah. Yeah, it's
Jen Elliott: Yeah,
Jason Wood: just like they don't know
Jen Elliott: it's wild.
Jason Wood: what like a a home phone is or anything like that. Like yeah.
Allison Tucker: time.
Jen Elliott: my goodness. Mm-hmm.
Allison Tucker: I know. I think Dolly Parton's Rest in Peace like song that she recorded it was like on a C D I think the one that's gonna come out in twenty forty five. Did you guys hear about
Jason Wood: yeah, yeah, I heard about that. Yeah.
Jen Elliott: my gosh.
Allison Tucker: She recorded a song in yeah,
Jason Wood: so it's on a C D
Allison Tucker: twenty fifteen that they decided to release in twenty forty five. And it's on a C D. So even just like the type of media like from ten years ago, right? So crazy.
Jason Wood: It was only a couple years ago my husband stopped buying me CDs. He would buy me CDs for Christmas and stuff and I'd be like, I don't even know where to play this at Yeah. We're little Yeah. Yeah, there's nowhere. Yeah.
Jen Elliott: my gosh. Right, right. I hear you. my gosh.
Allison Tucker: No, even our computers these days don't have don't have the little ROM. We're just in the future.
Jen Elliott: Don't. Yeah. Mm-mm. That's wild.
Allison Tucker: Jason, like anything else you want to speak speak to when we talk about vulnerability. you know, what happens when people are in that group, what have you seen personally when someone shares and they can kind of see like, that that happened to me too.
Jason Wood: Yeah. Vulnerability inspires other vulnerability. It really does. I I see it all the time when I go out and I share my story. There are Individuals from the audience that will come up to me afterwards and share some of their struggles, share what they've had to overcome to get to that moment in their life. And I can tell it's the first time they're sharing it with anybody. So it's one of those things where we really it I think by being vulnerable, we invite other people to be vulnerable with us. And at least that's what I see in our peer support groups. And I think that that's why they're so impactful. Because individuals will show up there, oftentimes thinking they're the ones who are looking for the support. And then they end up giving the support simply by being there and sharing their stories. And that in and of itself is healing. So it's one of those things where vulnerability really does inspire vulnerability. And I think the key to it too is storytelling. We mentioned it at the beginning too, but there is such strong power and being able to say, hey, that person went through a situation similar to me. And that really bonds us and connects us as humans. And that's ultimately what we all want at the end of the day anyway. We want to feel that connection. We want to build those relationships. And sometimes I think we forget that that other people go through struggles and go through obstacles to get to where they're at too. But when we're vulnerable, we're able to see that.
Jen Elliott: Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Have you I guess could you talk a little bit more about like the storytelling piece, particularly like maybe like for your groups? What has that been like that experience been like for people to be able to talk about their story, to write it down, to share with other people?
Jason Wood: Yeah. So it's similar to I think my experience that I had with my therapist where I needed to tell the story to myself first. so oftentimes you'll kind of see those light bulbs go off in other individuals where they're like, wait a minute, I'm not that, I'm not the enemy. I'm not the bad guy here. So I think watching people share their stories, it's really cool because they first get to tell it to themselves. when we hosted This Is My Brave at Northwestern University a couple years ago, it was an evening where 20 individuals who were in recovery from an eating disorder got up on stage and shared their stories, whether that was through spoken word, through poetry, through song, we even had dance and a comedy routine, which that's pretty incredible. When you can turn your eating disorder recovery into comedy, like yes. But
Jen Elliott: Yes. Wow.
Jason Wood: I remember when they first applied to be part of the production, several of them were brand new to storytelling and very scared. They were very timid in their stories. But as I worked with them and as I mentored them through it, they became fierce. Like they started to own
Jen Elliott: Mm-hmm.
Jason Wood: their stories. And you could see the healing unfold in them just from the time they first submitted their story to the time they took that stage that night. So I got to see that healing experience kind of in real time. And then I can't even tell you the impact that it had on the audience. So it's like storytelling, one, it benefits the person who's doing it, but two, it benefits the people who are listening to it. So it's just, it's a win-win for everyone.
Allison Tucker: What would you say to someone who feels like, well, my story doesn't have a good ending yet or feels unfinished, I can't share it yet? Is that a good idea?
Jason Wood: Yeah, then it's really important you share your story. i if you're comfortable. I'm never gonna force somebody to share their story if they're not comfortable with it. But we need to hear the messy stories. We need to hear the stories that don't have that happy ending quite yet, because that lets people out there know they're not alone. I think we do a really good job at storytelling in the eating disorder space, but unfortunately a lot of them are always. I'm recovered. Everything's fantastic. I've got my life back now and I'm all happy and blah blah blah. And it's like eating disorder recovery is messy. It is a process of ups and downs. So we got to talk real about it. And we can't set this unrealistic fantasy land of recovery for folks because. Unfortunately, some of us are never gonna get there. That that place might exist for some people and that's great. But for a lot of people, we're going to kind of be in that middle place as author Mallory Tenor-Tarkley talks about in her book Slip, which is a phenomenal book if if anybody hasn't checked it out yet. But it's it's understanding that middle place of recovery. So it's totally fine if you're not there yet. If it's if it doesn't feel like you have that happy ending that you want to share, or if you're in the middle of that up and
Jen Elliott: Okay.
Jason Wood: down journey still, go out and share it because it's still gonna have an impact on people.
Jen Elliott: I love that you talk about that. the messiness of recovery. I was just before we got on here scrolling on Instagram and saw something about how recovery is like very almost like white girl washed in a way of like you go through it and then you get to have this like lovely, wonderful life. and I see that with my clients, right? Like We have the black and white thinking from the eating disorder, and they think either I have my eating disorder or I'm recovered. And so a lot of the work is being like, it's it's gonna be messy, it's gonna be gray. Eating disorder is probably gonna be around a little bit longer, right? And so
Jason Wood: Mm-hmm.
Jen Elliott: I'm with you that that it can look messy and it might be unfinished, and also too, just living in diet culture and under systems of oppression, it might be really unrealistic for people to be like fully 100% recovered forever. So yeah, thank you for highlighting that.
Allison Tucker: And what a label I feel like that label kinda sets you up for for failure too, 'cause then what if you do have a slip or something that comes up? Whereas I feel like if you can accept that like the gray might exist, that's almost more like freeing and and peaceful and powerful because like, okay, we'll just see how I how I deal with that when it comes, but it's probably gonna come.
Jason Wood: Mm. Yeah, because it there's still times to this day where it will start to rear its ugly head. And I've got the resources and the connections and the community around me to be able to fight back. But that doesn't mean I'm failing if it starts to get hard again, or it's not that black and white thinking. It's either yes, I'm recovered, or no, I'm not recovered. it's totally fine for it to be a living experience. And and for me, I will always be living in recovery. I will that eating disorder voice is always just a couple chirps away from my ear, but it's not like it's impacting my day-to-day life anymore. I've got control, I can manage it. But it's also like it's not just mysteriously vanished and yeah, suddenly I'm free of it forever. I wish that would happen. I mean, that would be amazing if it could happen, but the the reality is that it doesn't work that way.
Jen Elliott: You're human and things happen, you know?
Jason Wood: Yeah, I'm human.
Jen Elliott: so love to hear about the storytelling and different ways that people can find healing that aren't necessarily talk therapy Like we're doing some storytelling, we're doing some comedy routines and things like that. can you talk to us what what would you recommend for creating spaces? Where men can feel safer asking for help, can feel like they have a space to share their story and to talk about their struggles with food.
Jason Wood: Yeah, I think one of the things that is really helpful for men is to approach it from an education perspective. So I even noticed this with our annid support group. It's like if you say, okay, you can come to the support group and let's talk about your emotions and all those super uncomfortable things that make you kind of like crawl. Like guys aren't going to want to sign up for that in the first place. So it's like, how do we even get them there? So I kind of like to structure it maybe a little bit more like this is a workshop. Or we're going to to work on building some tools so that they feel like they're coming to learn and then find that community through learning. I that's one of the things that helped me a lot is I joined a men's group and each week we would kind of work on developing a different emotional skill or emotional tool that we could kind of have in our toolkit. And throughout those conversations, we would bring up our those stories and our insecurities and things like that. But it wasn't like that was the sole reason we were getting together. Better either. So to me, that's one of the things that's important. I think another thing that is really kind of easy if you think about it, but we just got to get guys to have better friendships. Like we have a friendship problem when it comes to men. I've got a lot of buddies where I can talk about sports with them, and that's about it. Like if we if it goes any deeper
Jen Elliott: Sure.
Jason Wood: than that, it starts to feel really uncomfortable. Even today, even though they know my whole story and they know what I've been through, it's like, okay, they're buddies, but are Are they really like close friends? We need to have every guy like just have at least one friend in their life where they feel like they can go to them and talk about. Maybe they've got some emotional things going on. Maybe they're going through some tough times. Just having another guy they can talk to in their day-to-day life. It doesn't have to be in a therapist office. It doesn't have to be in a treatment center. Like it can happen at the bar. It can happen at a restaurant. It can happen on a walk outside. Like just another guy to be able to talk to about things because it really kind of lessens that stigma and the shame when it's out in the open.
Allison Tucker: Great advice. Thank you. Right. Tell us a little bit more about your work, at An Ed. If you can tell us maybe one like just share I wanna know like what your day to day looks like, first. And then also we'll talk a little bit about where do you see eating disorder awareness headed.
Jason Wood: Yeah. Well, you know what it's like when like the reporters are on the beach for a hurricane and there's just things blowing past you all the time? That's kind of what my day to day looks like at Anna. There's just always some something new going on, just a lot happening, but it's an exciting time. 'cause I just recently stepped into the executive director role. So it's kind of like settling into that day to day. But we we are just an amazing organization that's that's rooted in peer support and providing that community and that connection for people who need it. it's an organization that I wish I would have known about. When I was sick, I wish it was something my doctor would have said rather than go home and Google it. I wish he would have said, hey, ANAD exists out there. They can help you find the resources you need. They can help you get the connection and that community piece that you need. But unfortunately, I didn't know about it. So that kind of fuels me in my day-to-day work is I know that there's a lot of other people out there right now who need us but don't know about us. So I am constantly trying to amplify the message of ANAD and and get it out there to audiences. Beyond, I think, just the eating disorder space. For so long, eating disorders were kind of siloed off from the mental health space and we're kind of like the ugly stepchild that nobody wants to talk about in the corner. So I am really working hard to bring anid kind of mainstream, I guess you could say, bring it into the mental health space, bring it outside of even the mental health space, just into the mainstream conversation. Because eating disorders are something that we need to talk about a lot more than we are. So I'm constantly coming up with new wild ideas of ways that we can maybe break through some of those boundaries and connect with audiences who might not be hearing these conversations or hearing these messages right now.
Jen Elliott: So important. we had a guest on a couple of episodes ago that said only like 2% of mental health clinicians are well versed in eating disorders. and so I love to hear about, yeah, all the awareness that you're raising, talking about ANID. and to just to have it be peer support. I have had clients who have utilized those programs before and found it to be invaluable. So It's a really yeah, unique unique thing that Anna does, which is really cool.
Jason Wood: Yeah, it's it's it's awesome. And it's not a it's not a replacement for treatment, but it is there to supplement and to help people. And unfortunately, I mean we gotta be real, there are a lot of barriers that prevent people from getting the treatment that they need. Sometimes peer support is the only thing they can access, and at least it's something. At least they have that community and that connection. all of our programs are free, they're all virtual, so they're accessible from anywhere. And the other piece I think to the puzzle that we've really honed in on lately is that education. Because there's just a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings about eating disorders from providers and from individuals in the public. So we need to Build out resources and tools that are easy to understand. And I think that that's one area where, again, storytelling plays a factor. We really rely on our lived experience to explain to others what it's like to have an eating disorder. So we we're not gonna put together guides that have a bunch of medical jargon in them or things like that. We're literally going to share stories and say, this is what that lived experience is like with an eating disorder. This is what my experience was like. And that seems to educate and resonate a lot deeper than it. would if we were just putting out all these peer reviewed articles all the time.
Allison Tucker: And a lot more interesting and and like obviously not fun, but fun. Like I wanna he connect, right? Not just read peer reviewed. That's that's hard anyway. very cool.
Jen Elliott: Yeah.
Jason Wood: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Allison Tucker: Where where can our listeners learn more about
Jen Elliott: It
Allison Tucker: these peer support groups or find them specifically?
Jason Wood: Yeah, so we are an org. So an dot org. that's the that's the one-stop shop for everything. We've got all the resources right there on our homepage. We've got our helpline, our support groups, our mentorship program, there's treatment directory, the learning library, we got our student ambassador program. like I said, we're staying busy. We got a lot of things on the horizon. We're turning 50 this fall, which is really exciting. we are getting ready to celebrate our golden gala in October, and it it's just one of those things where we were the first eating disorder nonprofit in the country. founded back in 76 by a nurse who was looking for resources for her daughter who had just been diagnosed with anorexia and she couldn't find any. So she started a support group in her living room and that's where Ann was born. Our helpline for the first couple of years was her home phone number and she would answer it at all hours of the night, placing articles in the newspaper to say, hey, if you've got a loved one, if or if you yourself are struggling with at that point anorexia was the only diagnosable eating disorder. If you're battling this, like reach out. Somebody's here to listen. And that's kind of how our organization started. And here we are now, 50 years later, using modern day technology to commu communicate with each other.
Jen Elliott: It's incredible. I just I was talking to another treatment center contact this morning and mentioned I do not remember the name, but a mom essentially who couldn't find resources for when her kid had an eating disorder and like started some free support groups and things like that too. So it's so it's always just really cool to hear people starting things because they didn't have it. and now so many other people get to benefit from those resources. So it's amazing.
Jason Wood: Amazing. That's why I get really excited. We talked about a little bit earlier on, but our student ambassadors and the work that they're doing in their communities. And a lot of these students are starting different projects and different initiatives aimed at helping their peers better understand eating disorders and better connect to the resources they have. And every time I meet with one of them, first of all, this next generation of advocates is amazing. Like they are kicking, but when it comes to eating disorders and mental health stuff, like I wish they were doing this back in the 90s when I when I was their age.
Jen Elliott: Yeah.
Jason Wood: But I I I I think about it every time I meet with one of them. Like, is this the future Anit? Like where where are they gonna be in fifty years? What have they seen that they didn't have that they created that's going to change the world fifty years from now?
Allison Tucker: Amazing. Very yeah, lots of hope. Tell us about
Jen Elliott: Chills. I love that. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Allison Tucker: starving for survival.
Jason Wood: Yeah, so I stumbled on that one. I did not start sharing my story and be like, I'm gonna be an author, like I'm gonna publish a book. I started my blog when I started to share my story. I had a blog and an Instagram account and I didn't even know if anybody would want to listen to my story. So I I was putting together an article one day and suddenly the article kept getting longer and longer and longer. And 40,000 words later, I'm like, this isn't a blog article, this is the start of a manuscript. So I I reached out to my good friend Rachel Steile, who authored Running in Silence, which is another incredible book. and and she helped me along the way as as we edited and and published my memoir. But it was one of those things again where it kinda just organically happened. I the opening scene, I'm talking about going to McDonald's with my parents as a kid before the eating disorder set in, before the the unhealthy relationship I had with the good or bad foods and things like that and just kind of that joy that I used to have with food. And it went from that experience as a five or a six year old all the way through to to where I was in in 2022 when I when I published the book. So it kind of just goes the through the entire journey, the ups and the downs along the way.
Allison Tucker: Talk about getting good at storytelling. That is that is
Jen Elliott: So incredible. Yeah.
Allison Tucker: quite the story. Very cool. Where can people find
Jen Elliott: That is so cool.
Allison Tucker: this?
Jason Wood: Yeah, so it's available pretty much at any book platform. So Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes and Noble, all the good places. also on the ANAD website, there is a link to our ANAD book corner. and you can access my book. You can access a a lot of really good books on there. I am like a huge fan of reading again, people's stories, especially the memoirs and stuff, because it was those memoirs that I was reading when I was early in my recovery that helped me better understand what I was going through. So I think that's another reason. why it to me it's so important for people to share their stories because it was those stories that were my first kind of spark of community and connection that I needed in recovery. So I always encourage people to to do some reading and and to try to make connections that way too.
Jen Elliott: Yeah, lovely. We'll put those links in the show notes for sure. I love a good resource library with lots of book stuff, so that's awesome. all right, as we kind of start to wrap up our conversation, which has been so incredible, if there is a man out there listening and he's thinking, this might not be that bad, I'm just being healthy, this this maybe can be a thing, what might you want to tell him or share with him?
Jason Wood: Yeah. I would say if you're even contemplating it, talk to somebody. Just
Jen Elliott: Thank you.
Jason Wood: talk to somebody. There's come to Annette. Come hop in the men's group or something. Just but just talk to somebody because there's absolutely no judgment in that. And it's better to to share a problem than it is to keep it to yourself. it's one of those things where I I wish I would have just known I could have talked to somebody along the way when even the slightest inkling of is this normal? Like should I really be doing this all the time? because I could have stopped that behavior a lot earlier than than when I did. so yeah, talk to somebody, you're not gonna get your man card taken away. If you do, I'll give you a new one. Like you're fine, you're good. but yeah, just just talk to somebody.
Jen Elliott: Such lovely advice. Such lovely advice.
Allison Tucker: Yes. And then to wrap us up, I wanna know a little bit more about our fun facts here. So especially since we described our job maybe as the hurricane guy on the beach, w we have a hobby of storm chasing. Can you tell us some more?
Jason Wood: Do I do? So I am an avid storm chaser. So you got me during the good season. Spring, it's hard to book me because I'm always out on the road. so shout out to Annette for the flexibility there. I appreciate it. But I was always fascinated with weather when I was a kid, and I would going back to the 90s again, we've had a lot of references to the 90s here. But I was like six or seven when Twister came out, the original with Helen Hunt and Bill Paxton, like the greatest movie of all time.
Jen Elliott: A good one, yeah, a great one.
Jason Wood: Yeah, yeah, the good one. So when that came out I was sitting in the theater and I'm like, wait a minute, you can chase these things? Like you don't have to sit on your front porch and wait for them to come to you. So the moment that I got my driver's license at sixteen, I was out on the road chasing storms and that was before we really we had smartphones. So I would have to call my mom who would then relay the radar to me over the phone and then I would try to figure out where I needed to go using like a a real printout map because we didn't have GPS yet. So I I was I was chasing storms as soon as I turned 16 and it's something that I love to do to this day. To me it's kind of like my flow state in a way. because once I'm out there on the road, that's what I become focused in on. And it gives me something to really focus a lot of my energy on and everything else kind of you know subsides. I I deal with anxiety disorder, I deal with OCD, and those things I actually somewhat manage while I'm out there storm chasing because it gives me an outlet, it gives me an opportunity to to really focus in on me versus the storm rather than maybe me versus myself or me versus something else.
Allison Tucker: Phoney.
Jen Elliott: That's so cool. Yeah, that's so cool. Love it.
Allison Tucker: And you rock climb as well. Do we boulder? Do we like suspension rock climb? Tell us more about that.
Jason Wood: Yeah, yeah. So I don't I'm not much into bouldering. it's mostly just rope climbing and stuff because I don't know. I can't get into bouldering. I'm just not maybe flexible enough, which is it's kind of funny because for rock climbing, you gotta be pretty flexible anyway. But it was something that I picked up in my recovery actually. I've always been active, I always like to, you know, be busy and be involved in some sort of sport or something. And during my recovery, I really needed to re-channel this kind of obsession I had with working out and this dedication that I had to the gym. And I found purpose through rock climbing. Like it was like, okay, I can I when I go to the gym now, I'm not just working out to allow myself to eat something or allow myself to burn something off. Like I was going to the gym because I wanted to get better at rock climbing. Because every time I got to the wall, it's like this is a challenge in front of me and I'm going to conquer this challenge. So it really helped me find that balance when it came to working out because at the same time I couldn't over exert myself because then I wouldn't perform well on the wall either. So it was one of those things where it was really helpful to me in my recovery. And it's something I love to do because every day you're faced with a new problem, a new task, and you got to practice and practice and practice to get over that little hurdle or that little jug, whatever's in your way. And I have to I love it. It's just a mental and physical challenge.
Allison Tucker: love hearing that. You'll have to listen to if you haven't, our bouldering episode. we've got a great guest from North Mass Boulder and talks a lot about he had a ballet background and talking about the similarities with that and finding problems and just the problem solving aspect of it. So
Jason Wood: Yeah.
Allison Tucker: thank you for sharing that and it's cool that that transpired from recovery.
Jason Wood: Yeah, yeah. Maybe see that's the thing, I don't have a ballet background. Maybe that's it. I am not when it comes to being graceful,
Jen Elliott: Sweet.
Allison Tucker: Wait, yeah.
Jason Wood: that is not me at all. So
Allison Tucker: Yeah.
Jason Wood: that's probably why I can't hold her very well. Yeah.
Jen Elliott: That might be it.
Allison Tucker: Yeah,
Jen Elliott: my goodness, we love it.
Allison Tucker: I didn't really make that sound more accessible, did I? I'm like, yeah, not flexible and ballet, right?
Jason Wood: Yeah. No, that's not happening.
Jen Elliott: goodness. Well, Jason, before we wrap up, anything else our listeners should know about you, about recovery, about eating disorders in men? ANAD, any final thoughts you want to share?
Jason Wood: Yeah, I I don't think so. We've probably already blown their mind with all breaking all the stigmas and misconceptions today. I mean what, we've tackled eating disorders in men, we've tackled orthorexia. We we've talked about a lot. So
Allison Tucker: We've crossed the turn of the century several times, so
Jason Wood: We have. We've gone back and forth several
Jen Elliott: Hey.
Jason Wood: times. So the listeners are probably exhausted at this point. So yeah, you know, just soak it all
Jen Elliott: Yeah.
Jason Wood: in, re-listen again if you'd like. because you'll probably probably miss something the first time around. And yeah, other than that, just thank you so much everyone for for listening today and and being a part of the conversation.
Jen Elliott: Thank you so so much for joining us. So many good nuggets and great insights from you. So everyone, that is a wrap on our episode in our men's health and eating disorder series with Jason Wood of ANID. we hope that you love this episode and be sure to tune in next week for another episode you will not want to miss.
Allison Tucker: Yes, if you guys like what you saw or heard today, please follow us on Spotify or subscribe on Apple Podcasts. And if you are feeling super generous, please leave us a five star rating or a short review so that more people can find our show. We'll see you guys next week.
Jen Elliott: See you guys.