Meaghan Hipkin: Hey Sammy. Hey Meg. Hey everyone, welcome to Split, the podcast where my sister Meg and I, Sam, explore what it means to grow from the same roots while evolving into entirely different people. As identical twins, our origin story was quite literally as one being split into identical bodies and beginning our lives growing up in the same home and moving through life with strongly mirrored identities. But recently, Our paths have diverged in profound ways, carrying us not only to different ends of the planet, but different experiences, beliefs, relationships, and versions of ourselves. This podcast is really a love note to that evolution and a space where we'll explore not just twinhood, but identity, spirituality, philosophy, relationships, personal growth, attachment, womanhood, and the strange and wonderful experience of staying deeply connected to each other while continuously becoming new. And always improving people.
Meg: Hey everybody. So today Sam and I are gonna chat about our experience with codependency and how it shaped the way we moved through the world as twins. So codependency as twins, it's a pretty natural phenomenon when you come into the world with another person. It's a really intimate experience in that we are very closely connected on a soul level. And there's a lot of positives to that, but there are also some kind of negative dysfunctional patterns that can emerge from that type of relationship as well. So we're gonna chat about that today. So what do you think some of the positive aspects of growing up as a twin? Whoa, Sam.
Sam: I mean, I feel like there are a lot. if you had a a relatively healthy twin dynamic, because you do find the odd relationship where a pair of twins will not want anything to do with each other. but in our case and and in the cases of a lot of twins, it's coming into this world with Somebody who understands you at a level that nobody else probably ever will. you kind of have a built in best friend, a built-in partner to experience life with.
Meg: Yeah, built in cheerleader.
Sam: yeah. Again, people will experience this differently depending on personalities, depending on their own life experiences, but very commonly twins again in healthy relationships will have a very strong Positive support like network even just with the twin themselves. Now it can become unhealthy or dysfunctional. There's some crazy stories about twins where where that has happened, but in a relatively balanced relationship it it's really beautiful that way.
Meg: Yeah, and we were lucky enough to have overall a really positive experience. And of course, just as individuals who were constantly in each other's spaces, we did definitely have moments of conflict and tension. But overall, especially as we grew up a little more, those those moments really started to soften and even go away for the most part. And we have always known that no matter what happens, the other person always has our backs, no matter what. Even if we don't necessarily agree with the actions of the person, we always know that we have support. And so that has been, I think, one of the really positive experiences that we've had as twins, you know, knowing that there's someone in the world who loves you unconditionally. And a lot of people come into the world and they have to work to find that. And so We were lucky enough to be brought into the world with that.
Sam: Yeah. And I mean of course in a good case scenario, people can experience that sort of unconditional love from their parents as well. But of course that's not always the case either. I would argue though that the relationship with a parent and with a twin is quite different generally. yeah. And what about you? What what are there any positives
Meg: the case. Yes. Yep.
Sam: That we haven't gone over that you wanna mention?
Meg: I think one of them and this can be seen, I think, in either light as as a positive, but in some respect I c I also think that it can be seen a little bit more as a negative aspect to it, just depending on the perspective you're taking. And so it's really that we like I never f ever felt like I was truly alone. Even when we were going through stuff, that was hard.
Sam: Yeah.
Meg: you know, uncomfortable that made me feel a little bit isolated. I never felt truly alone because you were always there. And the reason I say that that can be can have a a little bit of a of a negative context to it is because I think for evolution, for self evolution, that is an experience that you that you need to have, right? You need to
Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Meg: feel what it is like to be alone so that you can and be comfortable with it. Exactly. Yes. And so that's definitely something that I've been working on since you've left, right? Is becoming comfortable just being with me.
Sam: And be comfortable. Uhhuh. Sitting with yourself. Uhhuh.
Meg: But over
Sam: I mean of course that that's something that we've both been that we've both been working on. Uhhuh.
Meg: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So but overall, you know, it led to a really gentle kind of loving overarching theme to our lives in a lot of ways.
Sam: Yeah. Yes, I agree. I agree. I would say those are the sort of the the biggest benefits. I mean it doesn't really get I feel like those are very strong ones. They're they're something that not a lot of people are lucky enough to experience. Many are, but in with with different relationship dynamics, but a lot of people a lot of people don't and I wish that everybody can find a person who does care for and support them that unconditionally.
Meg: It also really just raises the bar for the other relationships in your life.
Sam: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Meg: Right? To have a relationship where you are so seen where you so you're so validated and understood, it's like anything less than that becomes A struggle. It becomes a struggle to deal with. Right. Do you feel the same way?
Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Meg: Yeah.
Sam: But it also I almost feel like in some ways because you have that within the twin dynamic, within your twin relationship, it's almost like you don't need your other relationships to completely fulfill all of the roles because you also already have a relationship that fulfills one role and it would be nice if all of your relationships fulfilled that role, but at least I'm not saying settle for less than you deserve, but I'm just saying not everybody is going to be able to fulfill every role in your life. And it's okay to have different relationships fulfilling different roles.
Meg: Yes. I hundred percent agree with you. And I also think that that there is a benefit to that in that to some extent you know your value, you know your worth, and
Sam: Mm-hmm.
Meg: You're not going to passively put up with stuff that is going to have a negative impact on you long term.
Sam: Yeah. Yeah.
Meg: Okay, but with all of that being said, and all of the positive parts about being a twin, and there are many, and overall our experience together has been a very positive one. There are definitely, you know, dysfunctional tendencies that arise from being a twin. Right right?
Sam: Mm-hmm. Yeah, some some complexes.
Meg: Yeah, yes, complexes for sure. and some and so for us, some of those dysfunctional patterns that arose in our relationship were, for example, relying on each other to the point that we like didn't feel the need to push out of our comfort zones to try and make new friends, especially at school. it was different at the pool because As teammates, we just naturally, of course, wanted to include and be included. what do you have, Sam, for cons?
Sam: I mean I would say that was a big one, but I would like to clarify as well. It's not like we were crazy anti social. we did have friends in school.
Meg: No no no we just didn't necessarily put ourselves out there. We would let people come to us more than we would like go out and actively seek new friendships. Right?
Sam: Yeah. We would let people come to us. huh. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that was probably almost a hundred percent the case. Actually now that I think about it.
Meg: Uhhuh. A hundred percent.
Sam: Other cons. Okay, so for me, one of the things I always say is that the biggest mirrors in your life are gonna be your relationships, and romantic relationships are for sure one of the grandest, largest mirrors that you're ever going to have to face. But as a twin, I would argue that it's almost a bigger mirror.
Meg: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Sam: Or at least on the same scale and maybe a little bit different, because you know that everything that you do and everything that the other person does is being directly reflected on you. And if there's something about the other person that you find irritating or that you find triggering, or that
Meg: Yeah.
Sam: You find generally annoying or unpleasant, it can be extra triggering because your brain starts wondering if everybody is perceiving you that way as well. And so I I feel like it can make you sort of fight to differentiate yourselves a little bit more. But i I wouldn't say that
Meg: yeah.
Sam: I don't know how to explain this. That wasn't a complex Where it would be very obvious to other people, but it was definitely kind of an internal battle, a big internal battle a lot of the time. Especially when you're at an age or place in your life where you're not very secure with yourself. And of course that's going to reflect like if you're insecure in your romantic relationship, that is going to reflect in the way that your relationship progresses. And the same thing as a twin, like if you're insecure with yourself, that's going to strongly reflect in the way that you're perceiving your twin.
Meg: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. and I think I might have dealt with that to an even greater extent than you. We talked last week about how I really put on masks. And A lot of that had to do with me trying to differentiate myself from you. And it wasn't be it wasn't because I was Feeling negatively about you, it was because I wanted to be seen as a different person than you. Right. I didn't want to be stuffed into the same box and and to have people assume that we're exactly the same person. And so one of the things that happens with twins is subconsciously we start to feel the need to develop these very specific character traits.
Sam: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Meg: So that there's an obvious distinction between the two of us as individuals. And but what happens then is that there's a mag box and there's a sandbox. And so I can't go over and take any of the of the characteristics, any of the things that that Sam likes that is just a Sam thing. We had things that we both liked. But for example, let's say colors. Sam's colors, purple and blue. My colors pink and green. And so I could not wear purple and blue and feel like Meg. Right? Because that those were Sam colors. Right? And so and and it wasn't just colors. It was also like, you know, boys that we had crushes on.
Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Meg: It was specific personality traits as well.
Sam: I I feel like
Meg: That's definitely that's definitely something that that that I subconsciously r really latched on to in our relationship was distinguishing myself from you when we were younger. Right?
Sam: And I mean I think that I did the same. I feel like that's part of why I leaned so hard in the other direction. Because like especially in the in the like junior high years, we didn't really want to be not associated with each other, but we didn't want to be yeah. Yeah. As being the same.
Meg: Mm-hmm. Mm. seen as the other. We didn't want to be seen as the other person. We didn't want to be perceived as as the same.
Sam: Yeah, but you know what? I feel like maybe this box, maybe maybe in the preteen years, but the this box thing maybe isn't a common thread with all twins. Because some twins just really love to dress like exactly the same, same color, same everything. They want to be perceived the same. I wouldn't say that that is because we've known we've we've known other twins as well, and I would say
Meg: Yeah.
Sam: that they tended to also try to differentiate.
Meg: Yeah, and of course of course every every twin duo, you know, is going to be different. I actually did a little bit of research on the dysfunctional patterns that happen in twin relationships, and that came up it that came up right away. So it's not specific just to us.
Sam: Okay.
Meg: It is something that happens in a lot of twin relationships. But of course, like we talked about a little bit, there is a spectrum.
Sam: Mm-hmm.
Meg: And so there are the twins that are going to really want to be identified right. And then there's gonna be the opposite. But for all of the not maybe not all of them, but for a lot of the twin groups that are more moderate, I think that that's that's a struggle that a lot of us deal with.
Sam: Lean into a single identity. Lean into a single identity. Which I would argue based on Twins that we've met is probably the more common manifestation of a twin relationship. Usually when we've seen the adult twins who are dressing the same and and living together and have identical boyfriends or whatever it is, they tend to be like we see them on vacation, like at a resort, but they're not they're not necessarily the the twin archetypes that we have encountered regularly.
Meg: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Sam: In our lives
Meg: No. No. Not at all. You see those more on T V or you read about them in books. They've got their their twin languages and
Sam: Mm-hmm. And I have seen expressions of them. I have seen expressions of them from a distance in real life. I just don't personally know.
Meg: And they Yeah. yes, yes. We we've seen twins that that dress the same and like have the same hairdo and the same makeup on.
Sam: Yeah. So So yeah. what else would be a negative
Meg: for me one of the kind of like the maladjusted behaviors?
Sam: Maladaptive.
Meg: That I developed was hyperfixation. Now this was probably partly due to just how I'm wired anyway, but I w I definitely hyperfixated on you.
Sam: huh.
Meg: And making sure again that we were differentiating but also just on if there were like behaviors or moments that I didn't like or any perceived flaws, I could become hyper judgmental.
Sam: Mm-hmm.
Meg: In those moments.
Sam: Yeah. And I I experienced that to a certain extent as well. But I don't think I experienced it to the same level that you did, no. But you also tended to have a little bit more and I'm not diagnosing you with anything, but you did tend to have some compulsions that leaned a little bit more into almost an O C D tendency anyways than I did growing up.
Meg: No. Yeah. Yes.
Sam: Where you had
Meg: Yes.
Sam: to like tap on things a hundred times before you went to sleep. And it wasn't something that. that was like ruining your life Well maybe the maybe maybe the hyperfixation was a little bit intrusive.
Meg: on th it wouldn't it wasn't it was, it was. it can feel a little imprisoning when you like know that those you don't want those thoughts there, but they keep arising
Sam: But yeah, and I mean I had that a little bit as well. But like I said, I think you experienced it a little bit more intensely than I did.
Meg: Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, but i you know, in the end it's just Something that I I had to deal with and get over and learn how to negate those thoughts because it's not like they are a reflection of reality. It's just like that brain shatter that
Sam: Mm-hmm.
Meg: Isn't necessary to you know, continue to feed and maintain. It it doesn't need to be there. It has no positive or no benefit to my life or yours.
Sam: Yeah, it's a Yeah. But it's a mental habit, right? It's a mental pattern. And just like any of the mental habits and patterns we we have, we have to see them, understand why they're there, reflect on them, and then actively work to catch and change those mental habits and patterns, just like anything. It takes it takes work. And once your once your subconscious mind is choosing to work certain way, then it yeah, it requires a little bit of work to to repattern it. So
Meg: Yeah. Yes, definitely. I think those really were the major patterns that could be detrimental in some in some regard or at least dysfunctional in our relationship as as twins. Do you have any other
Sam: I can't think of any specific ones off the top of my head I feel like for me that those were the the major the major yeah, dysfunctional patterns that sort of emerged as a result of our twinness. and also just how there were some things that we f just felt like we couldn't do without the other person or we needed to pursue the same I mean, we had the same interests anyway, so it probably would have been the same, but we always needed to sort of
Meg: Yeah. That's another big one. No, yeah, you're right. but I also think that there were there was there were things that we considered pursuing, but if the other person didn't want to do it then we wouldn't do it. Right? Yeah. So that is that's definitely a big one too.
Sam: Yeah, that happened a few times, I think. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So it was always sort of a negotiation between the two of us and if and if we couldn't work it out then it that was that.
Meg: Yeah. Because we felt more secure, confident and more in control if the other person was there with us. Yeah. So now that now that we've been s you know, separated for a few years, we haven't been in each other's physical spaces since twenty twenty four.
Sam: So Yeah. So I would say yeah. four.
Meg: Summer twenty twenty-four? Yeah. is it spring? spring twenty twenty four. yeah. How do you feel like you've been able to evolve as a person or what changes do you feel like have occurred within you since
Sam: Spring.
Meg: Not having to be impacted or affected by my opinions on what decisions you make and and what experiences you you choose to have.
Sam: Well, I mean, it's definitely removed some level of of stress or fear of judgment when it comes to making my own decisions about what I'm doing, or even on a day day-to-day basis. Like sometimes I felt like I needed your approval to move in a certain way or whatever it was, even though that wasn't necessarily the case. so I mean I would say in that context, it definitely just removes
Meg: Mm-hmm.
Sam: It just removes that extra like stress or consideration for like what is Meg gonna think about this. I would say that the other ways they've changed, of course, since we've been separated is a big one is just being able to turn to myself more for validation. Like I've been through some fire in the last couple of years that we've been apart and I've had to face it mostly, of course, with your support from a distance.
Meg: Mm-hmm. Mm. Alone. Mm-hmm.
Sam: But but it has been faced It has been faced primarily by myself on my own. so understanding
Meg: Yes.
Sam: My strength as an individual on a much deeper level, understanding myself as an individual person on a deeper level, understanding that I am able to move and grow on my own. and I would say I would say for me that's the biggest shift is definitely like that internal one, that that being comfortable and and confident in my own skin without necessarily needing your presence or support constantly. and yeah, I feel like I'm a lot stronger internally than I was when I left. But I didn't know that I was but I didn't know that I had that much work to do when I left either. So again, it's this mirror principle. A different mirror was put in front of me. Right. And I had to do the work on on
Meg: Yeah. No.
Sam: on looking at myself and and understanding, okay, so now what is this next phase of life bringing me to understand about myself so that essentially I can ascend?
Meg: Mm-hmm.
Sam: And you.
Meg: I in s in some sense I feel similarly in that there is some stuff here that I've had to face alone and it has taught me more about who I am. I have learned to be more comfortable facing the world on my own without your physical presence. And then and then just
Sam: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Meg: smaller shifts as well, right? Like I don't feel like I need to put myself into a mag box all the time. I I I can enter the SAMI sphere and and you know, take some take take a few things out of that box st and still be myself. You know what I mean? So just
Sam: Yeah. You can wear blue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Same. Mm-hmm.
Meg: Even small things like that. I
Sam: And even if I like wear green or something, or if I wear pink, it's almost like I'm like, I'm gonna channel a little bit of Meg energy here. Or this is in tribute to her, or you know, so it becomes a little bit of an energetic connection or anchor sometimes if I if I do choose to do something and reach into the Meg box a little bit. Yeah.
Meg: Yeah Yes. Yeah, I like that. Definitely. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's almost like you're paying tribute to to your loved one a little bit.
Sam: Yeah, I said that. Mm-hmm.
Meg: So I think to conclude this conversation, I would think that we would both say we wouldn't change any of our experiences for the world. We wouldn't change the fact that that, you know, we did grow up as as a pair of codependent twins well into our adulthood we were codependent. And we wouldn't change the fact that we decided it was time for an evolution, it was time to spread our wings and
Sam: No.
Meg: and try out life as individuals for a while at least, right?
Sam: Yeah. Yeah. I mean I don't think we'll ever not be individuals now at this point. I mean we were individuals before, but I think yeah, the dynamic has
Meg: No, I agree. No, but we might we might decide to live a a little closer to each other one day again. We'll see. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Sam: yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it wouldn't really change anything. Maybe the only thing being like being a little bit kinder to each other in those early teenage years.
Meg: That's true. That's true. But I think that's just a product of a teenage dumb and growing up and having a sibling.
Sam: Yeah.
Meg: And regardless of whether you're twins, although the dynamic definitely changes and probably intensifies as twins. I just think that that's something that everyone goes through to some extent.
Sam: Mm. Yeah, I think you're probably right.
Meg: Yeah. Okay, cool, Sammy. Well, thanks for that conversation. It was another stimulating one for me. And and I hope that everybody enjoyed listening to this one. Once again, please let us know if you have any questions about about twinhood or about this conversation or the past one or if you have any suggestions about what you'd like us to chat about next.
Sam: Cool. Yeah.
Meg: But otherwise we hope you have a wonderful week and we're wishing you all the magic, all of the magic, all of the wonder in the world.
Sam: Thank you have a wonderful, wonderful week. Sending all of you lots of love and blessings. And hopefully, we'll see you next week here at Split.
Meg: Hey everybody. So today Sam and I are gonna chat about our experience with codependency and how it shaped the way we moved through the world as twins. So codependency as twins, it's a pretty natural phenomenon when you come into the world with another person. It's a really intimate experience in that we are very closely connected on a soul level. And there's a lot of positives to that, but there are also some kind of negative dysfunctional patterns that can emerge from that type of relationship as well. So we're gonna chat about that today. So what do you think some of the positive aspects of growing up as a twin? Whoa, Sam.
Sam: I mean, I feel like there are a lot. if you had a a relatively healthy twin dynamic, because you do find the odd relationship where a pair of twins will not want anything to do with each other. but in our case and and in the cases of a lot of twins, it's coming into this world with Somebody who understands you at a level that nobody else probably ever will. you kind of have a built in best friend, a built-in partner to experience life with.
Meg: Yeah, built in cheerleader.
Sam: yeah. Again, people will experience this differently depending on personalities, depending on their own life experiences, but very commonly twins again in healthy relationships will have a very strong Positive support like network even just with the twin themselves. Now it can become unhealthy or dysfunctional. There's some crazy stories about twins where where that has happened, but in a relatively balanced relationship it it's really beautiful that way.
Meg: Yeah, and we were lucky enough to have overall a really positive experience. And of course, just as individuals who were constantly in each other's spaces, we did definitely have moments of conflict and tension. But overall, especially as we grew up a little more, those those moments really started to soften and even go away for the most part. And we have always known that no matter what happens, the other person always has our backs, no matter what. Even if we don't necessarily agree with the actions of the person, we always know that we have support. And so that has been, I think, one of the really positive experiences that we've had as twins, you know, knowing that there's someone in the world who loves you unconditionally. And a lot of people come into the world and they have to work to find that. And so We were lucky enough to be brought into the world with that.
Sam: Yeah. And I mean of course in a good case scenario, people can experience that sort of unconditional love from their parents as well. But of course that's not always the case either. I would argue though that the relationship with a parent and with a twin is quite different generally. yeah. And what about you? What what are there any positives
Meg: the case. Yes. Yep.
Sam: That we haven't gone over that you wanna mention?
Meg: I think one of them and this can be seen, I think, in either light as as a positive, but in some respect I c I also think that it can be seen a little bit more as a negative aspect to it, just depending on the perspective you're taking. And so it's really that we like I never f ever felt like I was truly alone. Even when we were going through stuff, that was hard.
Sam: Yeah.
Meg: you know, uncomfortable that made me feel a little bit isolated. I never felt truly alone because you were always there. And the reason I say that that can be can have a a little bit of a of a negative context to it is because I think for evolution, for self evolution, that is an experience that you that you need to have, right? You need to
Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Meg: feel what it is like to be alone so that you can and be comfortable with it. Exactly. Yes. And so that's definitely something that I've been working on since you've left, right? Is becoming comfortable just being with me.
Sam: And be comfortable. Uhhuh. Sitting with yourself. Uhhuh.
Meg: But over
Sam: I mean of course that that's something that we've both been that we've both been working on. Uhhuh.
Meg: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So but overall, you know, it led to a really gentle kind of loving overarching theme to our lives in a lot of ways.
Sam: Yeah. Yes, I agree. I agree. I would say those are the sort of the the biggest benefits. I mean it doesn't really get I feel like those are very strong ones. They're they're something that not a lot of people are lucky enough to experience. Many are, but in with with different relationship dynamics, but a lot of people a lot of people don't and I wish that everybody can find a person who does care for and support them that unconditionally.
Meg: It also really just raises the bar for the other relationships in your life.
Sam: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Meg: Right? To have a relationship where you are so seen where you so you're so validated and understood, it's like anything less than that becomes A struggle. It becomes a struggle to deal with. Right. Do you feel the same way?
Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Meg: Yeah.
Sam: But it also I almost feel like in some ways because you have that within the twin dynamic, within your twin relationship, it's almost like you don't need your other relationships to completely fulfill all of the roles because you also already have a relationship that fulfills one role and it would be nice if all of your relationships fulfilled that role, but at least I'm not saying settle for less than you deserve, but I'm just saying not everybody is going to be able to fulfill every role in your life. And it's okay to have different relationships fulfilling different roles.
Meg: Yes. I hundred percent agree with you. And I also think that that there is a benefit to that in that to some extent you know your value, you know your worth, and
Sam: Mm-hmm.
Meg: You're not going to passively put up with stuff that is going to have a negative impact on you long term.
Sam: Yeah. Yeah.
Meg: Okay, but with all of that being said, and all of the positive parts about being a twin, and there are many, and overall our experience together has been a very positive one. There are definitely, you know, dysfunctional tendencies that arise from being a twin. Right right?
Sam: Mm-hmm. Yeah, some some complexes.
Meg: Yeah, yes, complexes for sure. and some and so for us, some of those dysfunctional patterns that arose in our relationship were, for example, relying on each other to the point that we like didn't feel the need to push out of our comfort zones to try and make new friends, especially at school. it was different at the pool because As teammates, we just naturally, of course, wanted to include and be included. what do you have, Sam, for cons?
Sam: I mean I would say that was a big one, but I would like to clarify as well. It's not like we were crazy anti social. we did have friends in school.
Meg: No no no we just didn't necessarily put ourselves out there. We would let people come to us more than we would like go out and actively seek new friendships. Right?
Sam: Yeah. We would let people come to us. huh. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that was probably almost a hundred percent the case. Actually now that I think about it.
Meg: Uhhuh. A hundred percent.
Sam: Other cons. Okay, so for me, one of the things I always say is that the biggest mirrors in your life are gonna be your relationships, and romantic relationships are for sure one of the grandest, largest mirrors that you're ever going to have to face. But as a twin, I would argue that it's almost a bigger mirror.
Meg: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Sam: Or at least on the same scale and maybe a little bit different, because you know that everything that you do and everything that the other person does is being directly reflected on you. And if there's something about the other person that you find irritating or that you find triggering, or that
Meg: Yeah.
Sam: You find generally annoying or unpleasant, it can be extra triggering because your brain starts wondering if everybody is perceiving you that way as well. And so I I feel like it can make you sort of fight to differentiate yourselves a little bit more. But i I wouldn't say that
Meg: yeah.
Sam: I don't know how to explain this. That wasn't a complex Where it would be very obvious to other people, but it was definitely kind of an internal battle, a big internal battle a lot of the time. Especially when you're at an age or place in your life where you're not very secure with yourself. And of course that's going to reflect like if you're insecure in your romantic relationship, that is going to reflect in the way that your relationship progresses. And the same thing as a twin, like if you're insecure with yourself, that's going to strongly reflect in the way that you're perceiving your twin.
Meg: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. and I think I might have dealt with that to an even greater extent than you. We talked last week about how I really put on masks. And A lot of that had to do with me trying to differentiate myself from you. And it wasn't be it wasn't because I was Feeling negatively about you, it was because I wanted to be seen as a different person than you. Right. I didn't want to be stuffed into the same box and and to have people assume that we're exactly the same person. And so one of the things that happens with twins is subconsciously we start to feel the need to develop these very specific character traits.
Sam: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Meg: So that there's an obvious distinction between the two of us as individuals. And but what happens then is that there's a mag box and there's a sandbox. And so I can't go over and take any of the of the characteristics, any of the things that that Sam likes that is just a Sam thing. We had things that we both liked. But for example, let's say colors. Sam's colors, purple and blue. My colors pink and green. And so I could not wear purple and blue and feel like Meg. Right? Because that those were Sam colors. Right? And so and and it wasn't just colors. It was also like, you know, boys that we had crushes on.
Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Meg: It was specific personality traits as well.
Sam: I I feel like
Meg: That's definitely that's definitely something that that that I subconsciously r really latched on to in our relationship was distinguishing myself from you when we were younger. Right?
Sam: And I mean I think that I did the same. I feel like that's part of why I leaned so hard in the other direction. Because like especially in the in the like junior high years, we didn't really want to be not associated with each other, but we didn't want to be yeah. Yeah. As being the same.
Meg: Mm-hmm. Mm. seen as the other. We didn't want to be seen as the other person. We didn't want to be perceived as as the same.
Sam: Yeah, but you know what? I feel like maybe this box, maybe maybe in the preteen years, but the this box thing maybe isn't a common thread with all twins. Because some twins just really love to dress like exactly the same, same color, same everything. They want to be perceived the same. I wouldn't say that that is because we've known we've we've known other twins as well, and I would say
Meg: Yeah.
Sam: that they tended to also try to differentiate.
Meg: Yeah, and of course of course every every twin duo, you know, is going to be different. I actually did a little bit of research on the dysfunctional patterns that happen in twin relationships, and that came up it that came up right away. So it's not specific just to us.
Sam: Okay.
Meg: It is something that happens in a lot of twin relationships. But of course, like we talked about a little bit, there is a spectrum.
Sam: Mm-hmm.
Meg: And so there are the twins that are going to really want to be identified right. And then there's gonna be the opposite. But for all of the not maybe not all of them, but for a lot of the twin groups that are more moderate, I think that that's that's a struggle that a lot of us deal with.
Sam: Lean into a single identity. Lean into a single identity. Which I would argue based on Twins that we've met is probably the more common manifestation of a twin relationship. Usually when we've seen the adult twins who are dressing the same and and living together and have identical boyfriends or whatever it is, they tend to be like we see them on vacation, like at a resort, but they're not they're not necessarily the the twin archetypes that we have encountered regularly.
Meg: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Sam: In our lives
Meg: No. No. Not at all. You see those more on T V or you read about them in books. They've got their their twin languages and
Sam: Mm-hmm. And I have seen expressions of them. I have seen expressions of them from a distance in real life. I just don't personally know.
Meg: And they Yeah. yes, yes. We we've seen twins that that dress the same and like have the same hairdo and the same makeup on.
Sam: Yeah. So So yeah. what else would be a negative
Meg: for me one of the kind of like the maladjusted behaviors?
Sam: Maladaptive.
Meg: That I developed was hyperfixation. Now this was probably partly due to just how I'm wired anyway, but I w I definitely hyperfixated on you.
Sam: huh.
Meg: And making sure again that we were differentiating but also just on if there were like behaviors or moments that I didn't like or any perceived flaws, I could become hyper judgmental.
Sam: Mm-hmm.
Meg: In those moments.
Sam: Yeah. And I I experienced that to a certain extent as well. But I don't think I experienced it to the same level that you did, no. But you also tended to have a little bit more and I'm not diagnosing you with anything, but you did tend to have some compulsions that leaned a little bit more into almost an O C D tendency anyways than I did growing up.
Meg: No. Yeah. Yes.
Sam: Where you had
Meg: Yes.
Sam: to like tap on things a hundred times before you went to sleep. And it wasn't something that. that was like ruining your life Well maybe the maybe maybe the hyperfixation was a little bit intrusive.
Meg: on th it wouldn't it wasn't it was, it was. it can feel a little imprisoning when you like know that those you don't want those thoughts there, but they keep arising
Sam: But yeah, and I mean I had that a little bit as well. But like I said, I think you experienced it a little bit more intensely than I did.
Meg: Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, but i you know, in the end it's just Something that I I had to deal with and get over and learn how to negate those thoughts because it's not like they are a reflection of reality. It's just like that brain shatter that
Sam: Mm-hmm.
Meg: Isn't necessary to you know, continue to feed and maintain. It it doesn't need to be there. It has no positive or no benefit to my life or yours.
Sam: Yeah, it's a Yeah. But it's a mental habit, right? It's a mental pattern. And just like any of the mental habits and patterns we we have, we have to see them, understand why they're there, reflect on them, and then actively work to catch and change those mental habits and patterns, just like anything. It takes it takes work. And once your once your subconscious mind is choosing to work certain way, then it yeah, it requires a little bit of work to to repattern it. So
Meg: Yeah. Yes, definitely. I think those really were the major patterns that could be detrimental in some in some regard or at least dysfunctional in our relationship as as twins. Do you have any other
Sam: I can't think of any specific ones off the top of my head I feel like for me that those were the the major the major yeah, dysfunctional patterns that sort of emerged as a result of our twinness. and also just how there were some things that we f just felt like we couldn't do without the other person or we needed to pursue the same I mean, we had the same interests anyway, so it probably would have been the same, but we always needed to sort of
Meg: Yeah. That's another big one. No, yeah, you're right. but I also think that there were there was there were things that we considered pursuing, but if the other person didn't want to do it then we wouldn't do it. Right? Yeah. So that is that's definitely a big one too.
Sam: Yeah, that happened a few times, I think. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So it was always sort of a negotiation between the two of us and if and if we couldn't work it out then it that was that.
Meg: Yeah. Because we felt more secure, confident and more in control if the other person was there with us. Yeah. So now that now that we've been s you know, separated for a few years, we haven't been in each other's physical spaces since twenty twenty four.
Sam: So Yeah. So I would say yeah. four.
Meg: Summer twenty twenty-four? Yeah. is it spring? spring twenty twenty four. yeah. How do you feel like you've been able to evolve as a person or what changes do you feel like have occurred within you since
Sam: Spring.
Meg: Not having to be impacted or affected by my opinions on what decisions you make and and what experiences you you choose to have.
Sam: Well, I mean, it's definitely removed some level of of stress or fear of judgment when it comes to making my own decisions about what I'm doing, or even on a day day-to-day basis. Like sometimes I felt like I needed your approval to move in a certain way or whatever it was, even though that wasn't necessarily the case. so I mean I would say in that context, it definitely just removes
Meg: Mm-hmm.
Sam: It just removes that extra like stress or consideration for like what is Meg gonna think about this. I would say that the other ways they've changed, of course, since we've been separated is a big one is just being able to turn to myself more for validation. Like I've been through some fire in the last couple of years that we've been apart and I've had to face it mostly, of course, with your support from a distance.
Meg: Mm-hmm. Mm. Alone. Mm-hmm.
Sam: But but it has been faced It has been faced primarily by myself on my own. so understanding
Meg: Yes.
Sam: My strength as an individual on a much deeper level, understanding myself as an individual person on a deeper level, understanding that I am able to move and grow on my own. and I would say I would say for me that's the biggest shift is definitely like that internal one, that that being comfortable and and confident in my own skin without necessarily needing your presence or support constantly. and yeah, I feel like I'm a lot stronger internally than I was when I left. But I didn't know that I was but I didn't know that I had that much work to do when I left either. So again, it's this mirror principle. A different mirror was put in front of me. Right. And I had to do the work on on
Meg: Yeah. No.
Sam: on looking at myself and and understanding, okay, so now what is this next phase of life bringing me to understand about myself so that essentially I can ascend?
Meg: Mm-hmm.
Sam: And you.
Meg: I in s in some sense I feel similarly in that there is some stuff here that I've had to face alone and it has taught me more about who I am. I have learned to be more comfortable facing the world on my own without your physical presence. And then and then just
Sam: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Meg: smaller shifts as well, right? Like I don't feel like I need to put myself into a mag box all the time. I I I can enter the SAMI sphere and and you know, take some take take a few things out of that box st and still be myself. You know what I mean? So just
Sam: Yeah. You can wear blue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Same. Mm-hmm.
Meg: Even small things like that. I
Sam: And even if I like wear green or something, or if I wear pink, it's almost like I'm like, I'm gonna channel a little bit of Meg energy here. Or this is in tribute to her, or you know, so it becomes a little bit of an energetic connection or anchor sometimes if I if I do choose to do something and reach into the Meg box a little bit. Yeah.
Meg: Yeah Yes. Yeah, I like that. Definitely. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's almost like you're paying tribute to to your loved one a little bit.
Sam: Yeah, I said that. Mm-hmm.
Meg: So I think to conclude this conversation, I would think that we would both say we wouldn't change any of our experiences for the world. We wouldn't change the fact that that, you know, we did grow up as as a pair of codependent twins well into our adulthood we were codependent. And we wouldn't change the fact that we decided it was time for an evolution, it was time to spread our wings and
Sam: No.
Meg: and try out life as individuals for a while at least, right?
Sam: Yeah. Yeah. I mean I don't think we'll ever not be individuals now at this point. I mean we were individuals before, but I think yeah, the dynamic has
Meg: No, I agree. No, but we might we might decide to live a a little closer to each other one day again. We'll see. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Sam: yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it wouldn't really change anything. Maybe the only thing being like being a little bit kinder to each other in those early teenage years.
Meg: That's true. That's true. But I think that's just a product of a teenage dumb and growing up and having a sibling.
Sam: Yeah.
Meg: And regardless of whether you're twins, although the dynamic definitely changes and probably intensifies as twins. I just think that that's something that everyone goes through to some extent.
Sam: Mm. Yeah, I think you're probably right.
Meg: Yeah. Okay, cool, Sammy. Well, thanks for that conversation. It was another stimulating one for me. And and I hope that everybody enjoyed listening to this one. Once again, please let us know if you have any questions about about twinhood or about this conversation or the past one or if you have any suggestions about what you'd like us to chat about next.
Sam: Cool. Yeah.
Meg: But otherwise we hope you have a wonderful week and we're wishing you all the magic, all of the magic, all of the wonder in the world.
Sam: Thank you have a wonderful, wonderful week. Sending all of you lots of love and blessings. And hopefully, we'll see you next week here at Split.
