124: Ohm With Dr Jay Wiles

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Peek behind the curtain of the Softly Training Lab with the Softly Performance Podcast.
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The pinnacle of human performance is out there.
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And we intend to find it.
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All right, welcome, welcome everyone, to the next episode of the Softly Performance Podcast.
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We're gonna go kick this off right away.
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With me, I've got Coach Matt and our special guest, Dr.
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Jay Wiles, uh principal of Thrive Wellness and Performance.
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And if I recall correctly, I don't want to say co-founder of Ohm, but you're definitely like you're the second on board, correct?
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That's right.
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Yeah, yeah.
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This is a performance house surf memory serves.
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It's a very cool hat, by the way.
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If you guys are videoing, thank you.
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I feel like I had to have well, I don't know why I'm turning around.
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I had to have something to rep it.
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Actually, do you guys know that company Element?
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Like they make hats like this, and I loved it.
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I wanted to call the Element hat.
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Yeah.
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They're so comfy.
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I was like, you know, I'm gonna find out like what hat this is, so I found it out and got home printed on it.
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Yeah, there's there's a running hat that I want uh softly to make, but I gotta talk to Brent about that one.
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So so uh Dr.
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Jay, I met you down at Canyon Ranch during one of their wellness summits, and you brought that's what you okay.
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I heard about the what was going on down there.
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Very posh.
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All the woo-woo magic and crystals.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, there was some of that.
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I didn't get to see because I was working you were working too, Jay, but I did see that kind of stuff on the calendar.
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And we we talked about it very briefly as far as like seeing it on the schedule, so to speak, at that event.
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Um, but I hope that event was good for you.
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Now, to remind listeners what Ohm is, Ohm is essentially a lamp that's tied to HRV and breath work to be very reductive.
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It's a very high fidelity sensor that you put in the palm of your hand, and that's tied to what the lamp is doing.
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It's kind of like neurofeedback.
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And speaking of neurofeedback, I I would say Dr.
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Jay Wiles, and I I think he would, I mean, it says it in your body of work that you were an expert in psychophysiology.
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What does that mean?
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Or the common adage I like to keep in mind is that the body exists for the brain to move, which that means that the brain can affect how the body moves.
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So, Jay, could you talk a little bit more about what is psychophysiology?
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Yeah.
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And who you are.
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Yeah, indeed.
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Again, thank thanks for having me on.
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Yeah, so psychophysiology is probably way too complex of a term to uh to be even used.
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You know, in the field of like academics and medicine and just physiology, like we try to use overcomplicated terms to talk about something that's actually quite simple.
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It's like simple at the surface, but then when you dig deeper, you there's nuances.
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But psychophysiology is just the interconnection between psychology or what's going on kind of more cognitively, and how that affects our physiology.
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But also, it's a bidirectional street.
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So what happens in the brain affects the body, what happens in the body affects the brain.
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It's kind of a two-way communication pathway.
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So when we say psychophysiology, that's more of just the study of the interconnection or the inner workings between mental processes, emotional regulation, mental well-being, and how our physiology responds.
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And then what I actually think is more interesting, because of course we need that body of research and science, is how do we apply that?
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And that's what we refer to as applied psychophysiology.
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So applied psychophysiology is just saying, well, we know and understand scientifically that there is a connection between the mind and the body.
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Well, can we measure that?
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And if so, and if the answer is yes to that, is there the option for us to train that and to train better resiliency and better mind-body connection?
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And the clear answer to that is yes.
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And so that's kind of where I play in most of the field.
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So I got a lot of my training and kind of background on the clinical side of things, uh, but also in the academic sense as well.
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So publishing studies and working kind of within the context of like clinical labs in psychophysiology.
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But now a bulk majority of my time is really spent working with high performers and then, of course, working as the chief health and performance officer at Ohm more on the applied side.
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So, how can we actually leverage this science to something that's actually useful for us on a day-to-day basis?
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You've been doing this for a while prior to the inception of Ohm.
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So, what for the listener, the military first respond, or like what lessons, if you had to pass on right now, like, hey, this is something that you should be prioritizing.
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What comes to mind?
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Yeah, it's great.
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Well, so for those of you who are listening who don't know who I am.
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So by background, I'm a clinical psychologist by trade.
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And I spent uh the first half of my career working specifically with veterans in the Department of Veteran Affairs, but then also with special operators in the DoD, predominantly with pararescuen in the Air Force.
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And for me, I was always fascinated with kind of like both high performers, kind of more on the special operators side of things, but then also to kind of like veterans who were experiencing significant difficulties, both mentally, so maybe it was depression, anxiety, PTSD, but also with chronic physical problems and predominantly pain.
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And so when I was first introduced to the field of biofeedback, which you mentioned earlier, I was actually in a chronic pain clinic.
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So I was working at the VA in Richmond, Virginia as a resident.
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And I was working in this pain clinic, which was a center of excellence.
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It was actually one of my one of my rotations.
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And within this context, we had veterans who were trying to titrate off of opioid-based medications.
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So obviously, over prescription of opioid-based medications, these individuals with chronic pain found that they just didn't want to be on them.
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There was a slew of side effects, or they just weren't working that effectively.
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So they had been working and now they're not working nearly as effectively as what they want them to with a slew of side effects.
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So the intention behind this pain clinic was to help these veterans who had, again, comorbidities for the most part.
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A lot of veterans had PTSD, anxiety, depression, so forth, to get off these medications, but we had to give them something else.
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I had to leverage other tools to help with chronic pain.
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So this is where they integrated things like changes in nutrition, changes in exercise, a focus on sleep medicine, a focus on uh things like guided imagery meditation or mindfulness meditation.
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They would also do um, you know, work with things with individuals like chiropractors or acupuncturists.
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So it was just a completely like integrated clinic.
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And one of the things that they were doing was biofeedback.
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And this was again, granted, we're going back like 15 plus years now.
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I didn't know what biofeedback was.
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And this was also pre-the advent of like wearables, right?
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So now I'm gonna say, what did that look like back then?
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Like you have a 24-lead EKG on your body.
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So instead of like, okay, wristless.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So back then you could get, in order to get the information that like you get from your wearable on your wrist, it would require like all these leads, like$50,000 to$100,000 worth of equipment.
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So it wasn't accessible other than to luckily these veterans like who were in in our clinic, but it was it was pretty wild.
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And so nobody back then had heard of heart rate variability.
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Like that was the biggest thing.
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And kind of really my subject matter expertise is in this metric of heart rate variability.
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Now I find it wild that like literally everybody has it who has a wearable, like you're getting it overnight.
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But then it used to take like, hey, you had to sit very still, we had to had to go through this whole protocol, you had to have electrodes and leads all over you, and then we could give you that number.
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Now, you know, on your finger, on your wrist, yeah, it's so easy to get.
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But back to the clinic.
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So, what I was seeing that I found so interesting is that these individuals with chronic pain, and we published studies back on this when they were doing heart rate variability biofeedback, which is essentially what the lamp is doing, the ohm lamp.
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It's a way of quantifying your nervous system's response in real time through the use of different interventions and watching how that intervention truly does affect your nervous system.
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Because you can go and tell, let's say, someone, hey, listen, I want you to do 10 minutes of meditation or 10 minutes of slow breathing.
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You might hear subjectively from them, yeah, like this made me feel really good, like I calmed down.
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Or they may say, I don't know, maybe it was working, but I'm not sure.
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But the one thing is like, are they gonna keep coming back to it?
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Like, is it gonna be something that's sticky in terms of behavior?
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What we find is that for many people it's not.
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Like they just don't develop that behavioral habit or routine.
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Whereas with biofeedback, we're able to do things like slow breathing and meditation, but show them how this is affecting their nervous system in real time and provide as a guide.
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And for most people, when they see that, it becomes more real to them.
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And so I know with like a lot of my veterans and special operators, for them, like they're almost uh many of them were quite kind of uh, I won't say cynical, but they were questioning like, is this actually like doing anything?
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When when you teach them a slow-paced breathing practice or box breathing, whatever it may be.
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What this does, what biofeedback does, is it kind of gives them the proof.
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It's like, hey, here's the evidence.
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I'm gonna show you my work instead of just showing you an answer, I'll show you in in detail.
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And that clicks for them.
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And and the same thing for my athletes.
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These are people who run on data.
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So when I can show them, hey, if we do X, it equals, you know, Y, or X plus Y equals whatever it may be, throw in a letter there.
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When we show them kind of the work, it becomes something that's much more real for them.
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And so they're much more likely to develop a behavioral habit or pattern around that.
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So that's kind of really why I went down the field of biofeedback and why we built this lamp is because we wanted to make something that wasn't very accessible to people very accessible and very frictionless as well.
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But just just so that if if someone's kind of hitting this fresh day, I know you I know you kind of talked about nervous system as a as a term, as a as a kind of an idea being blasted all over social media.
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But just so we're like everybody's starting from the same place.
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Are you okay to just give a listener's and certainly again, my idiot self, a rough rundown of what the nervous system is and the so what of that in terms of the let's keep the the tactical side of things in there.
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And then also maybe just a brush up on what HRV is, like what does it stand for and what does it do and and stuff like that, just so we've we've got like a platform to move forward from.
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Yeah, totally.
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And they're and they're both very interconnected with one another.
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So I'll talk about the nervous system first and then let that bleed into what HRV is because it's basically just a measurement of the nervous system.
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So I think it is incredibly important to talk about like what the nervous system is versus what it isn't, because if you go on to any platform, I don't care if it's Instagram, I don't have a TikTok, but I'm assuming it's probably all over TikTok as well.
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Is that right?
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Everybody's always talking about nervous system this system that.
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Hey, here's a hack to regulate your nervous system, or is here some kind of cool fact about the nervous system?
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And I think it's great that we are having a discussion about the nervous system.
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My biggest fear is that the information that is starting to be perpetuated is just nonsense, like so much of it.
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And like I'm talking about like maybe 90 plus percent of what I see, and maybe that's the algorithm for whatever reason I'm fed into on Instagram.
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It's because you're the expert, so it's I guess, I guess so.
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And then I'm and I'm watching like a lot of these videos basically in their entirety and basically just deconstructing like everything that that I see.
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So maybe they're just like, oh, you keep watching the whole thing, like let's just speed out my algorithm.
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So I'm like, you're just trying to piss me off, meta.
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Thanks so much.
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Just testing how effective the lamp is.
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Yes, indeed.
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Can he bring you back on the screen?
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Indeed.
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Yeah, I need to probably start doing some sessions of Ohm while I'm scanning through Instagram.
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So anyway, what basically the nervous system is a large mass scale communication highway.
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So when I say communication highway, it's that we have to have information from the brain and spinal cord, what we call our central nervous system, sent down into our body.
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So information needs to be able to go downward, call that top down.
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And then we also need information to go bottom up, some information from the body to go up.
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So for instance, I stub my toe, let's say, on the desk over here.
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I need that information sent from my body up to my brain.
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Otherwise, like, I don't know, I may look down and see, oh shit, my toe is completely broken, like, and I didn't know it.
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Well, no, we have pain signals, and that's all sent through the nervous system in the what we call the periphery or the peripheral nervous system up to the brain.
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And then also, too, like we have signals that are being sent from the brain down to the body.
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So, for instance, we have this small little area of our brain and our hind brain called the medulla.
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And the medulla actually is responsible for ensuring that we continue to breathe and our heart continues to beat without us having to consciously think about it.
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That would really suck if that you had to think about every breath you took or every heartbeat.
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That would be horrible.
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So we need this communication pathway.
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A good way to put that, people may already be making the connection here, is that the nervous system is intended on keeping you alive.
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Like the whole goal of the nervous system is to make sure that things remain stable.
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We always have this constant attunement to potential insults that we may experience.
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So when I say insults, I may say injury or potential threats.
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It just keeps things stable.
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And when I talk about the nervous system, most of the time, from my perspective, given kind of what I create and what I do as a psychologist, I'm specifically talking about what is referred to as the autonomic nervous system.
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Now, the autonomic nervous system, put very simply, is just a it is a branch of nerves and a system that is essentially trying to keep your nerve trying to keep you balanced.
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And when I say balanced, I'm talking about ensuring that we have the ability to exercise and use energy when we need to use energy and then conserve energy when we need to conserve it.
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And the whole way that it kind of uh teetered, totters back and forth and balances itself is by continuing to make sure that there is no viable threat in our environment.
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If it is, all systems go.
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We call that our fight or flight nervous uh the branch of our nervous system or the sympathetic.
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And then if we're like, hey, actually there's no threat to our survival, we're in a safe and secure place, then we can kind of dive more into what we call our parasympathetic nervous system, which is our rest and digest system.
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It is a constant interplay between those two branches that are not just antagonistic, they're not just against one another, but actually they're working in tandem with one another that give us the ability to regulate throughout the day.
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However, when we encounter continuous insults, whether it's physiological or psychological throughout the day, then we start to experience periods of stress.
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And then the nervous system tries harder and harder to keep up with that demand.
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It's constantly saying, How do I keep things in a state of balance?
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Now, this is all mediated or done through this signaling highway, which is predominantly through two nerves.
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One is the vagus branch of nerve endings or our tenth cranial nerve, and the other one is called the glossopharyngeal nerve.
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These pathways have to be efficient in the way that they communicate to keep things stable.
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And if they're not, we can start to dysregulate and have things like high blood pressure, poor emotional regulation, higher degrees of stress, all things that most of us don't want to have on a daily basis because it impacts our health poorly, it also impacts relationships poorly.
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And then also for people who are high performers, they're not able to recover as quickly.
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So that's the nervous system kind of in a very like 30,000-foot nutshell.
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To link that to heart rate variability, HRV is basically just a metric that is looking at whether or not that nervous system is adapting like it should be?
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Or is it struggling to adapt?
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Is it receiving so much insult day in and day out that it can't repair, that it can't recover?
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And so what do we see?
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So actually, let me take a step back.
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Heart rate variability or HRV is the variance or variability that occurs in time between successive heartbeats.
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So instead of like heart rate, which was going to look at things in BPM or beats per minute.
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So, say for instance, 60 BPM would be 60 beats per minute, you would assume that that would mean, okay, so the heart is beating at an average of one second in between each successive heartbeat.
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And yeah, on average, that is true, but it's actually entirely false that that is not how your physiology is actually working.
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Indeed, your heart rate is actually going up and down and up and down and up and down, predominantly mediated by your breathing, by your respiration cycles.
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So you see kind of like this kind of increase in heart rate as you breathe in, and as you breathe out, heart rate decreases.
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So the average may be 60, but in the span of a few seconds, you may actually be going from 60 beats per minute up to 70, 80, and then down to 60, 50, 40.
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You may have these big swings in heart rate.
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The variance that's happening between those heartbeats is called heart rate variability.
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And over time we know that as that number becomes larger, we're showing signs of stability within the nervous system.
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It's adapting to all of its environment.
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And that need be had because if you don't have adaptations in your environment and the nervous system starts to determine that there's threat, your heart will actually beat more like a metronome.
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And you don't want that to occur.
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There's a lot of downstream net negative effects that can happen from that.
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So, Matt, I know that you just asked a question.
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:11.039
I went into a long spiel.
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:16.000
Hopefully that wasn't too like convoluted, but I tried to look- Yeah, no, that that was perfect.
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.079
That was exactly what I was uh I was asking for.
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:18.400
Thank you.
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:21.200
Yeah, so so I have a couple questions.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:25.200
So you mentioned insults to essentially these pathways.
00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:40.240
My head goes to, and I'm wondering, and this is relevant, especially for the, let's say, older operator or older first responder, how much of this gets to a point where the structure of the brain, the structure of the pathways have adapted.
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:50.799
So if I if memory serves someone who's exposed to cortisol on a very regular basis constantly, their prefrontal cortex, if I remember correctly, actually shrinks as a result of that.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:56.640
So now we're asking you, like if this is something that we're going to pay more attention to, is like, how do we improve your HRV?
00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:04.400
We're asking you to go in the other direction, probably more intentionally, versus being in an environment that's hyper stressful and it just kind of happens to you.
00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:16.559
So is it fair to say that your body of work and other practitioners that are doing, let's say, similar to work to you, your job is not just this ephemeral, let's talk through it.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:22.000
Rather, essentially, we're going to try and change the structure of your nervous system.
00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:22.960
Is that fair to say?
00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:24.160
Very, very fair.
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:49.920
I think that a great way to kind of think about this is that when the autonomic nervous system receives repeated insults, more simple way to put that is that when we experience chronic sustained periods of stress, regardless of whether or not there is a true threat there, because you know, for instance, it's like again, with my time working with both uh veterans and then special operators in the Air Force, like these individuals actually had things that were true threats to their life.
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:53.599
Like on a daily basis, especially like for prepare a rescue man.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.480
This this is something that like they they actually did encounter.
00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:04.160
But it isn't the necessity to execute energy and to escape or fight that threat that's the problem.
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:05.839
Like we need that to happen.
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.440
That stress is great.
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:09.200
That is life-saving stress.
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:10.720
Stress is your friend.
00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:11.440
You need it.
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:16.160
It is when that continues to persist outside of a true threat.
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:17.519
Again, chronic stress.
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:25.519
Think about just even the everyday individual that who is battling with difficulties related to work or financial stress or relational stress.
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:33.680
It's all of these perceived threats to their survival that cause this autonomic nervous system to be continuously ramped up.
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.920
And so the mind, the body, the brain, they all start to adapt to that.
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.400
And that becomes their new baseline and new normal.
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:45.519
And what we end up seeing ultimately is this autonomic nervous system becomes very rigid.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:47.039
It becomes very stuck.
00:19:47.200 --> 00:20:02.559
Just like if you were to like go grab, you know, some, if you were to go do a workout and try to hold and flex, let's say, some dumbbells really hard, but just continue doing it for like a few minutes, you're gonna start cramping at some point because of the rigidity of the muscle.
00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.480
Same thing happens within the terms of the autonomic nervous system.
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:12.240
So, what we want to do is train the opposite the direction, which is we want to train autonomic flexibility.
00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:20.799
And we can do that through a series of different types of interventions, things like resonance biofeedback or slow-paced breathing, what we call resonance breathing.
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.680
But there's also other methods for doing it as well.
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:31.039
What HRV biofeedback does in particular is it kind of just again gives you the evidence that this is effectively changing the nervous system.
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:34.640
You can see it happen in real time, and there's a lot of potency to that.
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:46.880
But yeah, Giovanni, to your kind of point here, our whole goal is to reduce the amount of rigidity in the nervous system, make it much more flexible so that our nervous system isn't in this constant threat state.
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:51.680
It's not thinking all the time that there's something around the corner that's about to get me.
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:52.640
Sometimes there is.
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:53.839
Most of the time, there's not.
00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:54.480
I'm wondering.
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:56.799
So there's, man, there's so much I want to break into.
00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.720
And Matt, please feel free to jump in if I'm if I'm, you know, dominating.
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:02.640
But I know you dealt with this, Dr.
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:02.960
J.
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.200
I I know you dealt, and you mentioned it briefly, on the cynicism of it.
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:20.240
So as far as the operator, you know, if you're teaching, I'm thinking of a a cadre or a cohort of eight to ten individuals, a team or whatever, and you're gonna have at least three to four of them be like, This is well, they'll just be frank, this is for pussies.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:21.839
Like, like that's what they're thinking.
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:23.200
They're being polite.
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:23.680
Sure.
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:28.960
Uh, and it's not that they don't trust you, it's just that they're being cynical and they have these walls up, so to speak.
00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:36.720
So for the listener, which I feel like you're not necessarily though, the listener that's listening to this is probably not falling into that category.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.599
Some might be, but I bet they know someone who definitely is skeptical.
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:43.440
What how have you dealt with that?
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:45.440
Because for me, it's very simple.
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:47.839
Like well, like we mentioned, it's structure and function.
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.119
You're in this hypervigilant state, you've trained yourself to be that way.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:53.920
It makes sense that your body adapts to that environment.
00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:57.200
We need you to have an on off access to the on off switch.
00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:59.279
And it's kind of like they stay stuck on.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:01.599
So it's It's and I'm sure Matt's the same way.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:03.200
It's not, it's not woo-woo.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:06.240
It's just it's it's another vector that we should be looking at.
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:07.119
So how do you deal with that?
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:08.240
How do you deal with that skeptic?
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:10.400
Yeah, it's it's it's a really good question.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:20.000
And the way that I think about it this way is that you never hear me use terms like, hey, we're trying to instill calm or relaxation, calm the nervous system.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:21.039
I don't care about that.
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:24.640
Like that language is not something that I use for two reasons.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:26.079
Number one, it's just not true.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:28.160
Like our aim here isn't relaxation.
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:31.599
Our aim is really specifically training.
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:33.440
That is the analogy that I use.
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:34.799
So think about it this way.
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:45.279
It's like, and most operators will understand this idea of like when you go into battle, like you are going to operate at the level of your training.
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.279
Like you want things to be automatic.
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:48.880
There's a level of automaticity.
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:53.359
You don't want to be having to think through everything because that causes delay.
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:57.759
And that cognitive delay may cost you your life or cost you your comrade's life.
00:22:57.839 --> 00:22:59.119
You can't have that happen.
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:07.920
And so for me, it's like, I don't want people to be thinking about, oh, I'm going to use this like, you know, after to calm, or I'm going to use it in the moment to like calm myself.
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:12.640
I don't use terms like stress management, just because this is much deeper than that.
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:15.039
This is a true training of the nervous system.
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:24.319
So when I say train, I mean that I'm trying to strengthen the nervous system to make the adaptations I want it to make so that it becomes reflexive.
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:33.200
And I can see that this is happening through quantitative physiological data, biometric data that you cannot trick.
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:40.960
Like when you put on a heart rat heart rate strap, when you are measuring things like heart rate variability, you can't fake that.
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:42.799
Good luck trying to fake that.
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.519
You're going to produce what your body is producing.
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:53.039
However, you can train your nervous system in the right direction and show over time those adaptations that are being made.
00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:57.759
And that's very different than just a relaxation tool or a stress management tool.
00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:00.160
Like I just don't think that there's as much power into that.
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:05.839
It's not saying that I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say that those are not approaches we want to take.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.480
It's just that's not how I convey that message.
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.160
Like when if you want to build bigger biceps, right?
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.319
You don't expect, okay, hey, you know what?
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:15.920
I'm gonna go to the gym this week.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:20.799
I'm gonna do, let's say, two sets of dumbbell curls, call it a day, that's it.
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:22.400
Maybe I'll come back next month.
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.240
And the next thing I know, man, I've gained four, five, six inches on my biceps.
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:30.079
No, like you train and you do it consistently over and over.
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:32.160
You add diversity into that training.
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:37.279
You progressively overload all of those things that I just mentioned for developing bigger biceps.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:40.319
I would say the exact same thing for training the nervous system.
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:43.119
We do things like progressive overload of the nervous system.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:45.359
We consistently come in and train.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:54.799
And then we can watch that muscle build larger and stronger and see hypertrophy, if you will, by looking at the data that we have in front in front of us.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:04.079
So that's how I like to share it is that I think about this as nervous system resiliency training, not calming down, not stress management, not meditation.
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:05.200
It's training.
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:17.519
I appreciate that a lot of this stuff is gonna be very multifactorial, but I'm I'm assuming then some of the some of the positive byproducts of of that increased resilience is gonna be things like increased sleep density and quality and things like that.
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:36.319
But I'm assuming you would also see an improvement in a lot of the kind of um key decision-making tasks, like what we kind of term as cognitive loading, which obviously we know is getting more and more prevalent within this space, like more and more tech integration and like I've got 10 streams of information and I have to make a decision now.
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.160
I'm assuming like you're gonna see significant improvements in that stuff as well.
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:41.039
Yeah, for sure.
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:49.440
So again, this is uh I think a lot about this, both working my history of working, you know, in the military, but also working with high performance athletes, pro athletes.
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:55.599
These individuals need to have a high degree of cognitive acuity and decision making.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:09.200
And one of the things that we know is that when stress load is too high and feels unmanageable, we get tunnel vision and we start to have very cloudy judgment, or we react way, way too slow, or we just make really poor decisions because we're not thinking through it.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:19.680
And so I actually do utilize a lot of this training for individuals before it can happen before, kind of like a high performance situation, it can happen before bed.
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:23.200
And so as a way to kind of downregulate the nervous system prior to sleep.
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:31.839
But one of the things that I hear constantly, and we see this kind of reflected in performance overall, is that these individuals say, Well, yeah, I'm I'm thinking more clearly.
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:34.720
I'm having better, I'm executing better decision making.
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.200
I just feel more cognitively acute.
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:38.720
And and that's a great thing.
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:42.079
Like that's what we really want them to have on a on a daily basis.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:44.640
Uh, because now it's something that's being translative, right?
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.160
It's not just a, hey, I do this and then kind of let's see what's happening.
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:49.599
It's like, no, I see what's happening.
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:51.920
It's translating to actual better performance.
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:52.400
Okay.
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:56.799
So so in terms of like the application, I would love to kind of, again, sorry, G, I don't want to steal your show.
00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:00.319
I'd love to get into the resonance breathing and and that side of things in a second.
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:12.319
But in terms of uh my understanding of of what you're saying, so rather than like, okay, you do protocol A and then immediately go into the task, it doesn't need to be as connected as that.
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:21.279
It's it's the like this this in the same way that you wouldn't necessarily prep in the gym to then it's something that you're doing just to build that that general robustness.
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:22.160
Is that you got it?
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:23.759
Yeah, yeah, okay.
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:24.319
You got it.
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:27.039
Because you you could you could argue kind of two things, right?
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:32.960
You could argue that there are two effects that occur when someone does, let's say, biofeedback, HRV biofeedback.
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:34.880
You could say that the first is actually acute.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.920
And so you could say, yeah, it actually does help people to calm down.
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:42.480
Like they feel a sense of calm when they do this slow-paced resonance breathing.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:43.440
Uh, and that's great.
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:45.599
If that's what how you want to use it, that's great.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:50.559
But I would argue that the research is much more robust in terms of its long-term effect.
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:53.680
So, short-term effect, we call that state change.
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:54.000
Good.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:54.720
We want to have that.
00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:56.720
You're really pissed off and you need to cool down.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.000
Yeah, let's do some of this to help with immediate state change.
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.680
However, what I think is most valuable is trait change.
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.039
So this is when your nervous system actually adapts over time.
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:13.759
And it isn't that, hey, I have to be consciously thinking about doing this practice in order for it to have a systemic effect.
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:18.000
It just has that effect because you've been training for it for a long period of time.
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:27.599
If you tell the body and the nervous system something over and over and over and over again, it's gonna listen and it's gonna say, Will you keep feeding this to me?
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:30.000
Like, let me just make the adaptation.
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:32.480
And we see evidence in both directions, right?
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.000
Constantly fed with stress, constantly experiencing turmoil.
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:37.599
Well, what's the nervous system gonna do?
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:39.279
You keep constantly feeding that.
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:42.400
Let's dial everything up because there are threats everywhere.
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:51.119
Blood pressure goes up, resting heart rate goes up, the ability to recover is down, emotional regulation becomes poor, and the ability to manage your stress response is poor.
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.240
We see that, but we can also dial it in the other direction.
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:57.440
This is something that is within our inherent control.
00:28:57.680 --> 00:28:58.480
That's so exciting.
00:28:58.559 --> 00:28:58.960
Yes, for you.
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:00.960
I have two questions.
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:03.920
And yes, then Matt, we will go into resonance breathing.
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:10.960
Does this change uh per the operator, first responder, or even family members as far as how you approach it?
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:13.279
It's a it's a good question.
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:22.000
The language that I use may change, just because I want to use language that people adapt as their own heuristic that they're that they're familiar with.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.839
So that that that can change.
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:28.160
The protocol itself could change based on what I see in the data.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:37.759
So depending on what I see in how their nervous system's responding, I may dial things up, dial things down, try certain interventions versus others.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:39.920
So I try to take a very personalized approach.
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:45.839
Let's say when I'm working with someone, just to make sure that they're not just getting this uh, you know, one size fits all type thing.
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:47.119
Yeah, cookie-cutter approach.
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:49.359
So a lot of it, yeah, it's just gonna depend on on data.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:49.839
Okay.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.559
And and that kind of you touched on it very briefly.
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.680
I I get the sense, and and I think this is just how it is.
00:29:55.839 --> 00:30:00.079
Most of us are overstressed because of the perceived threats that we've put around ourselves.
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:07.839
Would you say that most of your time is probably dedicated to getting people to be more flexible because they're stuck in this on state?
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:11.759
Are there cases where you gotta get someone to get on?
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:13.279
Like they're stuck in the off state.
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:14.480
Like, can you talk about that?
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:21.200
Yeah, so many of the people that are stuck on the off state, uh, it is because they were stuck on the on state for far too long.
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:23.440
So they kind of basically burnt out.
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:28.000
Most people uh most people don't naturally default to off.
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:35.759
Even in like people that are really depressed, you would think that, oh, the people that are really depressed are individuals that are just kind of like it's the low energy.
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:43.599
Yeah, that there are there are aspects of that that are very true, but also a core component of depression per se is actually anxiety.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:54.480
It is kind of these persistent concoction of worst-case scenarios, these ruminations, this kind of like predicting the future behavior and cognition, and that doesn't actually come to fruition.
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:57.680
And so it causes these inherent anxiety and stress responses.
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:07.279
But when I do find that someone has kind of like burnt out and they need to, we'll say, upregulate, that is when I'm gonna use actually things more like behavior like exercise.
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:10.000
And I'm gonna say, okay, like I want you in the gym.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:18.559
Like that's actually gonna be a much more effective strategy if you want to upregulate the nervous system because the gym is a stressor.
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:20.720
Let's say something like sauna is a stressor.
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:25.839
Just getting out and moving and not becoming like behaviorally complacent is huge for them.
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.960
Most people do not have the problem of upregulating their nervous system.
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:35.119
Most people have the problem of they just cannot downregulate.
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:38.799
They have, they feel like they have no ability and capacity.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:40.400
And so, what does that look like?
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:45.839
It turns into things like anxiety, it can turn into depression, it can turn into other types of emotional dysregulation.
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:51.359
And the first thing that most people think of is I've got a head mental health cognition problem.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:55.519
I need to see a therapist or psychologist to talk about said problem.
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:57.599
And listen, I am a psychologist.
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:06.960
So of course I think that therapy can be quite beneficial, but the problem is that you're going in and fighting a mind battle without the capacity physiologically to actually handle that.
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:15.440
So most people don't, they they fail, quote unquote, in therapy because for them, they don't even have the psychophysiological capacity to manage it.
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:23.440
And that's why I'm saying for most people, they would benefit from a bottom-up approach where it's we learn how to train the nervous system how to handle that.
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:29.119
And then that can lend itself to much more success in doing the top-down cognitive work.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.039
Because some people need the top-down cognitive.
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:31.759
Exactly.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.319
And then this is not just even a clinical approach, right?
00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:37.200
This is actually something that I use with my athletes all the time.
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:41.440
Like if I've got a golfer in the PGA who's got the yips, I don't start here.
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:44.000
Like that's like that person's worst enemy.
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:52.160
I start with their physiology and I say, let me teach you how to regulate that response, and then we'll talk about all the cognitive bullshit that you keep telling yourself.
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.079
I don't start with the cognitive stuff.
00:32:54.240 --> 00:33:06.319
And that's a big like component that I've seen most sports psychologists miss is they try to stay up here and it might help temporarily, but then people revert back to these old behaviors because their nervous system is just haywired.
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.400
So you're trying to fight the mind with the mind.
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:11.039
And I'm arguing fight the mind with the body first.
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:11.440
Right.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:12.799
Oh man, that's fascinating.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:25.759
Well, I I think it's also someone, as far as your body work, people who are very comfortable in the kinetic, in the to be super simple, in the weight room understands that almost as a gateway to these different behaviors.
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:26.799
So totally.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:28.880
Yeah, the nonprofit we we had him on actually.
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:30.559
He's a PJ, Stephen Nisbet.
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:45.359
And uh Yeah, I don't know if you've worked with him, but any obviously HIPAA, but the the nonprofit that he's in charge that he's founded, Shields and Stripes, uses strength training and physical therapy very heavily as a gateway to the cognitive stuff.
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:49.839
Because if you just had this nonprofit that was focused on pure cognitive, I don't think it would be as effective.
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:51.440
No, I I I totally agree.
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:53.599
It is a wonderful approach.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:59.680
And it's funny because I think what we're gonna see in the next five, 10 years, that is gonna be mass adoption.
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:12.719
Like I think that people are going to realize that therapy has its place, the cognitive work has its place, but what really needs to be addressed are these significant dysregulations that the nervous system has made.
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:22.079
And so we need to teach it better adaptation through behavior, whether it's exercise, better sleep, better nutrition, and then just better ways to regulate our physiology.
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:27.199
So that being said, I think that's a great segue into our next piece as far as resonance breathing.
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:27.760
What is that?
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:28.159
Yeah.
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:29.519
So we've used that term a lot.
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:31.679
So it probably would be helpful to define it.
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:34.320
Resonance breathing is not a term that I came up with.
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:40.079
This actually was coined by a uh by a clinician uh back in like the 1980s.
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:41.039
Uh his name is Dr.
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:48.639
Paul Lair, and he's out of Rutgers Medical School, still an emeritus professor there, uh kicking and still writing amazing papers.
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:53.440
But basically, he was working with this group of Russian researchers.
00:34:53.599 --> 00:35:03.280
And when they were working with cosmonauts and astronauts, and they were looking at these individuals' responses to stress and measuring them through different types of biometric data.
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:15.920
And that was interesting to them because they wanted to see kind of how these individuals were or were not recovering, and were there aspects related to their physiology that could predict better recovery and performance just based on biometric readings.
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:17.119
And that was fascinating.
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:19.360
But for them, they're like, okay, well, we found this thing.
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:23.360
Like we know that heart rate variability is a really great proxy for that.
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:25.199
But are there ways of changing it?
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:37.519
And they were really interesting, interested in this because they're like, well, we notice too when these people change their breathing, especially when they slow it down, they start to inflate this metric that is heart rate variability.
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:42.320
They start to, we see these nice, really pretty sinusotal oscillations in their heart rate.
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:43.360
Well, why is that?
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:48.480
Well, through further research, they found out that this was predominantly what we call vagally mediated.
00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:53.280
So that means that the vagus nerve was creating these big swings up and down in heart rate.
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:58.079
And we found that that was actually resulting in some good nervous system adaptations.
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:05.840
But they took it a step further and they said, okay, like when we slow anybody's breathing down to around six breaths per minute, like that actually is pretty effective.
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:13.039
Like most people will have a pretty good response going from our natural 14 to 16 breaths per minute down to six breaths per minute.
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:18.800
And then for anybody who's listening, an easy way to get to six breaths per minute is just a five-second inhale, five second exhale.
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:21.119
And for most people, that's actually pretty effective.
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:30.320
But these researchers actually found, well, we find that some people actually have a more robust HRV response when they breathe at four and a half breaths per minute.
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:32.159
And some people, it's like when it's at five.
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:34.159
Some people it's actually around six and a half.
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:50.400
So there's this range that they found from about six and a half breaths per minute down to four and a half breaths per minute, that most people, somewhere in between there, actually have a rate of breathing that creates these high peak oscillations in heart rate and heart rate variability.
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:52.480
And they termed that resonance.
00:36:52.639 --> 00:37:00.639
Resonance is physiology from a physiology perspective, is when two systems are aligned or in synchrony with one another.
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:09.039
So resonance in this sense is when our respiration system, so our breathing, is in alignment with our cardiovascular system.
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:16.880
So when they're oscillating at the exact same rate, when they oscillate at the exact same rate, so basically as we breathe in, our heart rate rises.
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:21.039
And as soon as we start exhaling, our heart rate decreases or reduces.
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:26.800
When those are in synchrony with one another, that is a state of what we call physiological resonance.
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:31.360
And we know that that is helpful for maintaining appropriate or stable baseline blood pressure.
00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:35.760
It's helpful for improving things like mental acuity and mental performance.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:41.280
There are all these positive downstream effects that can happen when we breathe in this resonant state.
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:49.440
So resonance frequency is what they called it, it's just the frequency of breathing that causes this physiological resonance.
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:51.360
And there's ways of testing that out.
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:56.639
So there was a protocol that they developed where they would do like two-minute trials at half breath increments.
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:00.960
So it'd start you at six and a half breaths per minute and then go to six, five and a half, five, four and a half.
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:07.440
And they would say, okay, out of all of those trials, what was one that maximized your heart rate variability or your nervous system response?
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.000
And that's the rate that we're going to breathe at.
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:12.239
And so that's basically what what resonance is.
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:22.880
And so then the practice that comes from that is just finding what that resonant number is and then breeding at that pace for extended periods of time on a consistent basis.
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:29.280
And the more that you do that, the more that we're gonna see that the nervous system is going to make that adapt, excuse me, that adaptation.
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:29.679
Okay.
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:38.559
So that that value, does that change over time for that individual or is that like a stamped kind of that's hardwired in that you are 4.6 or whatever?
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:39.840
Yeah, great question.
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.480
So it was initially thought that this was like it was static.
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:47.280
You held on to it for the rest of your life.
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:55.760
So if I found that, you know, you Matt, it was four, four and a half breaths per minute, Geo, it was five breaths per minute, that is what I'm gonna place, you know, for the rest of your life.
00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:57.039
You're gonna breathe at that rate.
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:10.159
What we found though, and this actually came out really in the last two to three years, is that while it holds around that resonance number, it can vary depending on context and time of day and recovery.
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:18.320
So for instance, like we may find that, yeah, your resonance is five breaths per minute today, but tomorrow it might be 5.26.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:24.320
And the next day it might be 4.73, and it might average out to be right around five.
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:26.880
Most people do average right around that.
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:35.280
However, it may vary depending on kind of the time, day, context, and your physiology, which I actually, to be honest with you, I think makes a lot more sense, right?
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:37.760
It's like we are very dynamic beings.
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:39.599
Our physiology is very dynamic.
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:43.440
So to have something that is just so static doesn't make a lot of sense.
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:46.559
It would be like, hey, hey, we checked your blood pressure one time.
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:49.840
And so therefore, forever, your blood pressure is gonna be that.
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:54.239
No, like most people wish that could happen, especially if they have a great number, like, can we just keep it there?
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:55.280
But that's not the case.
00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:05.360
And so actually, with Ohm, with the device we've built, it automatically detects your resonance frequency without you having to go through that trial that I mentioned, all those trials.
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:09.360
And then we will modulate the inhalation and exhalation ratio.
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:16.000
So the time you breathe in and breathe out to maximize that nervous system response and hold you at your resonance throughout the session.
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:19.119
So you don't have to go through the lengthy, you know, 15-minute trial.
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:21.440
You know, go see a clinician like me in my office.
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.599
You can just do it right from your living room.
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:24.079
Yeah.
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:28.639
So, so Jay, we you and I talked about this at at Canyon Ranch.
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:36.239
You know, when you're saying all this, I know the overwhelming majority of people have access to heart rate variability through wearables.
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:40.000
So why the lamp versus my Apple Watch, so to speak.
00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:40.480
Yeah.
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:45.119
And I would actually think that the both of them can work in tandem with one another, right?
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:47.199
So it's like you got to think about the purpose.
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:57.199
So the purpose of most wearables is going to be to give you some insight, especially as it relates to sleep, on how your nervous system either recovered well or didn't recover well.
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:07.280
And we know that sleep is a great time to take it because we're still like actually, heart rate variability is a very specific and granular piece of data.
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:12.480
If you are off, we measure things in heart rate variability in terms of milliseconds.
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:21.119
So if you're off by, you know, an order of milliseconds, you know, that's 10% off, that could make a significant difference or even 5%.
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:30.000
And so at nighttime, like with Aura Ring or Whoop or Garmin or Apple Watch, these things can be actually pretty good at looking at heart rate variability.
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:32.079
But that's just a data piece, right?
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:34.079
And most people have no idea what to do with it.
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:36.639
They wake up and they're like, oh shit, my HRV sucks again.
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:38.079
Like I'm I'm in trouble.
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:39.920
Like it's it's one of those things.
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:41.039
Yeah, no worries.
00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:44.880
So most people, they see that data point, they have no idea what to do with it.
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:47.360
And so a lot of times it becomes very crippling.
00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:50.000
They're like, well, I guess that's an excuse not to go work out.
00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:53.280
My HRV is in the in the shitter, my heart rate's elevated.
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:57.280
And I'm like, no, like that wouldn't that be a great excuse to not have to go work out?
00:41:57.599 --> 00:41:58.480
Hopefully you want to.
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:01.440
Like that's a good thing for your overall physical and mental health.
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:03.519
But but it's just crippling for a lot of people.
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:05.119
And so, and it's not applied.
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:09.039
So, whereas what the lamp is, is that it serves kind of two purposes.
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:11.599
Number one, it is a nervous system training gym.
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:15.840
Like it is intended to help train your nervous system, not just give you data.
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:26.880
Because the problem that tend typically will arise is that we end up ultimately, I guess you could say, not doing anything with the data, whereas we could actually be using it to train.
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:35.440
The other thing is that there's so much friction nowadays in wearable technology and your phone because it requires you to sit there and look at your phone.
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:37.360
You got to make sure the dang thing is connected.
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:42.880
Whereas for us, like in order to start a session, you take the rock or it's a stone off the lamp.
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:45.599
It's got a high fidelity PPG sensor in it.
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:46.960
You just place it in your palm.
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:50.400
And once you place it in your palm, we're starting to read all of your metrics.
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:52.880
And the lamp is pulling in all that data.
00:42:53.039 --> 00:43:03.119
And then the algorithm that we created is receiving all that information and then making modifications to your training session and to the light pacing in real time.
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:13.360
And then when you're done, instead of having to like go into the phone and click on a bunch of buttons and make sure that you turn your wearable off or whatever it may be, you just take the stone and you put it back on top of the lamp and then you go about your day.
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:17.760
So for us, it was a matter of like we wanted to significantly reduce friction.
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.840
And what does a so what does a training?
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:21.840
You talk about it being like a training session.
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:22.960
What does that look like?
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:23.199
Yeah.
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:24.239
So you've yeah.
00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:32.239
For people who are just on on audio, well, I'm sure Gio put show notes and things so people can see how and I I mean this, it looks beautiful, it looks like a piece of art.
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:32.880
Thank you.
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:33.360
Thank you.
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:33.920
Yes.
00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:38.320
So that's that's the kind of the device that is linked into the training session.
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:40.159
So definitely, definitely check out some some pictures.
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:40.800
But sorry, Jay.
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:41.280
Yeah, you got it.
00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:43.599
And I'll and I'll try to describe it in detail here, right?
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.519
So obviously it is a is a lamp and it's one piece of molded glass.
00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:49.599
It kind of looks like almost like an orb.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:53.360
Some people were like, is that an essential oil diffuser that's just like made out of glass?
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:56.639
I'm like, no, this is just like it's I thought it was at first.
00:43:56.880 --> 00:44:00.719
Because you guys were right next to an essential oils uh Supplier.
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:01.599
That's funny.
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:04.719
So, no, uh a little bit more complex than essential oil diffuser.
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:10.400
So basically, what happens is when you take this stone off top, it's got a sensor that you place on your palm.
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:12.159
The stone is really warm.
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:13.599
It's also very heavy.
00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:18.719
And when I hold this stone, it's starting to map my nervous system's response in real time.
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:21.679
And this light is actually oscillating up and down.
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:22.880
So it's a pacer.
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:24.719
So as the light goes up, I breathe in.
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:27.760
And as the light goes down, I'm going to breathe out.
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:29.760
Also, there's haptics in the stone.
00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:31.519
So it vibrates to that pacer.
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:38.079
So if I wanted to close my eyes, I could just close my eyes and breathe to the pace of the vibration in my hand.
00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:44.079
But the feedback that you're going to get, so again, we're modifying that pacer to find that resonance frequency rate.
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:48.000
So the optimal rate of breathing to maximize your nervous system response.
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:56.320
When we start to see that you are engaging that vagus nerve that I talked about earlier, you'll start to get different color change in the lamp.
00:44:56.480 --> 00:45:01.599
The lamp is essentially going to show you that your nervous system is getting into a much calmer state.
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:14.400
But when you get into a state of physiological resonance, and physiological resonance is when you're creating these big sinusodal waves in your heart rate that can only be done if you have like maximal vagal oscillations.
00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:16.400
This whole lamp will glow blue.
00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:20.880
And the whole goal is to hold yourself into that blue state for as long as you can.
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:22.400
And if you come out of it, it's okay.
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:27.440
Just come back to your breathing, focus on the practice and try to get yourself back into blue.
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:34.000
And then when you're done, you just take the stone, you put it back on top, it charges right on top in an induction charger, and you're and you're good to go.
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:35.599
And then of course the lamp works as a lamp.
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:38.000
So if you want to light it your area, you can have you light it.
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:41.760
Like if you want to turn the lamp off, you just turn the stone in the other direction.
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:43.199
It turns the lamp off.
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:57.039
And actually, you probably, I don't know if you guys can pick it up or hear it, but it's uh making some like noises, which is like if you want to put it by your by your bed, you can uh have like white noise or soundscapes or something also to help the person sleep.
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:58.719
It's a really well thought-out product.
00:45:58.960 --> 00:45:59.280
Thank you.
00:45:59.360 --> 00:45:59.599
Thank you.
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:00.960
Yeah, we spent a lot of time on it.
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:03.840
Uh I I was just gonna ask a bit more about the the session then.
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:08.079
So I'm assuming I'm assuming you you kind of would recommend this as something that's to be done daily.
00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:12.880
Yeah, so yeah, like what does that look like in terms of time investment and stuff like that?
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:14.400
Really good question.
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:17.440
So if you just want a little, let's let's start off with acute.
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:19.519
You're saying like, hey, I'm I'm really stressed.
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:30.400
It just came out from you know New York City traffic and it was wild, and I had multiple people honking at me and you know, shooting the bird at me, which is daily basis for New Yorkers.
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:32.559
Like, come in, I want to downregulate.
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:35.280
So maybe it's just, hey, I want to do three minutes on this thing.
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.639
So you pick up the stone, do a three-minute session, you're good to go.
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:40.159
That's one one use case.
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:44.320
Another use case would be more of like a, hey, I want this to be my nervous system gym.
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:46.079
I want to make true adaptations.
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:57.519
Well, the literature would say that in order for that to happen, you need to put in about eight to 12 minutes four times a week, and then do that for around six to eight weeks.
00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:02.079
So, in other words, like I say split the difference and do about 10 minutes four times a week.
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:04.320
That's 40 minutes of total time invested.
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:10.639
So 10 minutes, four times a week, not a lot of time in order to make true adaptations of the nervous system.
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:22.960
I find that for many of like my athletes, so I work a lot in the NHL, MLB, got NFL players, like a lot of them with this technology, they're probably averaging more of like doing it five to seven days a week.
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:29.039
And they're doing anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes a day just because they love the feeling of it.
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:30.960
They enjoy it as a practice.
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:33.039
And a lot of people book in their days.
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:34.239
That's actually how I use it a lot.
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:35.519
So I was gonna ask you next.
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:35.920
Yeah.
00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:37.119
I book in my days.
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:46.960
So the first thing I do in the morning um is I'll do, you know, a little, little, little bit of journeying, journaling, a little bit of kind of like me time, and then I do about 12 minutes of this in the morning.
00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:51.039
And then at night before bed, I'll do about 10 to 15 minutes.
00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:54.960
And so for me, I'm getting in generally like 30 to 45 minutes a day.
00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:59.519
We have one guy who actually does close to about an hour and a half a day.
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:09.599
And the reason being is because yeah, well, he will sit with his wife and watch like an hour-long Netflix show and literally just sit there with the stone in his hand.
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:13.119
And while he's watching the show, he just regulates his nervous system.
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.679
And I'm like, dude, that's a great idea.
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:20.320
So we've had a couple other people who are like, hey, kill two birds with one stone, no pun intended.
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:25.599
And hold this thing just kind of while you're doing, you know, your whole your Netflix, your HBO show or whatever it may be.
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:30.480
And uh they really like it that way because they're able to put in a lot of of hours a week on training.
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:31.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:34.719
So I didn't so there's no kind of conf like there's no conflict.
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:41.679
There's no so if if you're if you're obviously trying to you're trying to hit this resonance, that's enough of the stimulus in itself.
00:48:41.920 --> 00:49:06.480
Where if you're watching like some gnarly like serial killer thing, that's not gonna out, that's not gonna outweigh the benefit of the it it won't outweigh if anything though, that's actually a great way to train because you're putting yourself in kind of like a even though the serial killer might not be a real life situation, hopefully it's not a real life situation, but you're putting yourself in a situation where it's like actually the stimulus in front of you could be rather stressful.
00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:11.760
And so keeping yourself in a resonant state for a long period of time is gonna be more difficult when you're doing that.
00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:19.119
If I'm just concentrating on my lamp, it's way easier to stay in that blue resonant state as it is trying to balance my attention.
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:28.559
However, the interesting thing about this is that there is the gain that you get is really just from putting in time.
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:31.679
It is putting in time, training, and putting in the reps.
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:44.159
Now, the the research has stated that anything over like a 20 to 25 minute session, like at one time, that the return on your investment, it like there's kind of a shelf effect.
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:53.039
So it's not like it's detrimental to go over that time, but you're not gonna have significantly more gains going 20 minutes and then going to like 60 minutes.
00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:54.960
Like most people, that's overkill.
00:49:55.039 --> 00:49:56.800
Like, really 10 minutes is great.
00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:00.960
Like these are just people who are like, I like doing this like while watching TV.
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:01.920
So I'm gonna do it.
00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:02.960
And I'm like, Yeah, go for it.
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:03.840
Like, by all means.
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:11.039
But really, really achievable, and especially if you can stack it with other things, like you can go for a walk or you can like for sure.
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:12.320
Do you like low level?
00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:16.559
I appreciate you have to stay within, I'm assuming within a certain distance of the lamp.
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:17.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:19.199
So it's like a normal like Bluetooth signal.
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:19.760
So yeah, you can't.
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:20.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:26.639
But I mean, like I guess like jumping on a jumping on a assault bike or something like that, just real like doing your your low level work.
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:27.280
Yeah.
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:32.800
Yeah.
00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:33.360
Yeah.
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:34.880
That would be very impressive.
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:39.280
Well, but I'm wondering on like how yeah, like you said, reducing the friction.
00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:43.440
Yeah, like to to further your point, Matt, like a walking treadmill or something like that.
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:44.320
That makes sense to me.
00:50:44.559 --> 00:50:45.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:46.559
That's that's cool.
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:50.960
So uh you mentioned, well, one one one thought that goes to mind, Jay.
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:53.039
Jay, I don't know if you have kids, but what about kids?
00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:56.079
Like, cause because the world that we're raising them in is hyper-stimulated.
00:50:56.159 --> 00:51:01.199
And I'm just wondering if you've worked with children or if you have children yourself, family members, et cetera.
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:03.519
Have you have you worked, used this with them?
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:06.800
Yeah, this is uh a place that is close and near and dear to my heart.
00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:07.440
So I have three.
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:11.519
I have three boys, and I have two older boys who are a handful.
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:16.239
They're just, you know, wild little boys who love exploring sports, athletics.
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:19.119
And with that, like they need ways to downregulate.
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:26.719
I mean, and kids, kids are a very underserved population here because when you think about it, it's like, well, what advice are we trying to give?
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:28.480
Well, we want them off their phones.
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:29.119
Okay, good.
00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:29.440
Yeah.
00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:31.760
Like we well, and we want them off technology, I should say.
00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:37.119
We don't want them on phones, don't want them on tablets, don't want them like constantly getting this like novel stimulation.
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:42.480
So trying to give them a meditation app or something on the phone, it's just not stimulating.
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:43.440
It's not novel.
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:45.679
And then also they're staring at a phone.
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:51.519
So for us, we said, well, how do we create something that doesn't require a phone?
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:56.400
So we actually do have an app, but we say that the app is the robin to our Batman.
00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:58.800
Like Batman is the device itself.
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.920
The app is really like a, hey, I want to see all the nerdy data.
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:06.079
Like I want something that's gonna help with, you know, behavioral streaks, or may it be.
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:11.519
But for kids, it's like, no, they just need something that might can help them to downregulate in real time.
00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:16.239
So I tell the story a lot about my oldest who is an empath.
00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:21.199
He's also just an athlete and he's a really good athlete, and he takes things to heart.
00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:27.039
And so a bad combination sometimes is like the empath that's also really good at sports.
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:35.920
And then when he doesn't have a great game and he gets yelled at by said coach, like he takes it to heart and he won't show you while he's out on the field.
00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:42.000
But boy, better you better believe it will happen when we get in my truck and we're heading back home, or when we get home.
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:52.079
So for him, he's actually gotten into this rhythm where it's like, I know that if it's been kind of a rough game, or I know that I'm about to go to bed, I'm gonna go sit and do a three-minute ohm session.
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:57.199
So he'll pick up the stone, he'll put it in his hand, and he can turn it blue pretty quickly now.
00:52:57.280 --> 00:53:02.639
Like it was hard or difficult for him, difficult, more difficult for him initially, but now he can get it blue.
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:05.920
And then my six-year-old, um, who's my middle child, same thing.
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:11.039
He's an emotional little guy who just kind of wears his heart on his sleeve, another athlete.
00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:13.119
And for him, like he needs it as well.
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:22.480
And he has had, and my wife, hopefully, she's okay with me saying this out loud, he has had like some big emotional like outbursts, like teardowns, like at times.
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:24.880
And when they happen, like you can just sense it.
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:28.320
It's just a lot of just frustration, anger, yelling.
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:34.639
Well, I have found, and this is again like me just being completely honest and not trying to just sell product.
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:43.840
If he goes and he sits and he does three minutes of this, it completely transforms the personality of that kid in in in three minutes.
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:52.320
Like he goes from outrageous, like little spawn of Satan to like an like I am calm, cool, collected, good to go.
00:53:52.480 --> 00:54:07.119
And honestly, so to answer your question there, Gio, like that is then one of the stra uh drivers for me to continue to work on this product because I think that kids alongside adults like us can really benefit from this.
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:08.960
And this is an underserved population.
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:12.800
I can almost just imagine a world where like every classroom has one of these.
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:24.000
And when it's just gonna say a kid goes, gets gets, you know, whatever, anxious before a test or frustrated because something happened out on the playground or whatever it may be.
00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:27.599
And the teacher just says, All right, go in, go into the corner, just do an ohm session.
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:33.760
Like I've seen the power of what it can do to a kid and their emotions uh just in a very short period of time.
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:40.719
I just keep thinking to, I mean, I didn't have access to stress management tools, so to speak, when I was a kid.
00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:42.960
Like you kind of just figure it out as you go.
00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:48.719
And it's not that you do well mentally, so to so much as it is that you survive.
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:56.880
And if someone were there to say, like, hey, here's something you can do, you know, who knows where I would be mentally by comparison.
00:54:57.199 --> 00:54:57.920
Yeah, for sure.
00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:04.079
Well, you know, and and I and I commend a lot of companies that have tried to make whatever it might be a meditation app or a breathing app.
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:12.320
But I think you come down to the same problem of these kids are just like watching a staring at a phone and they're doing something that also just feels like very esoteric.
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:14.639
They're like, oh, become aware of my breathing.
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:18.079
Like most kids, that language is very hard for them to understand.
00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:20.400
But if you can say, hey, like here's what we're gonna do.
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:21.679
We're gonna play a little game.
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:24.800
And the game is is that I just want you to breathe with this thing.
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:26.960
See if you can make that lamp turn color.
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:32.800
And so I'm not, I'm not speaking about emotion, I'm not speaking about, I'm just saying, let's play a little game, see what happens here.
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:35.920
And what they find is that, like, yeah, I can hold this little stone.
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:37.519
It's nice and warm and it's vibrating.
00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:38.159
This is cool.
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:39.519
I'm just kind of breathing with this link.
00:55:39.679 --> 00:55:41.119
Oh, wait, it's changing.
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:42.400
Now it's blue.
00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:44.800
I yeah, feel better when this happens.
00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:53.840
Like it's just it's speaking such a simple language that kids can understand, but it's having powerful effects on their physiology and on the nervous system.
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:56.320
Yeah, like truly kind of got it discovery.
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:57.039
Yeah, that's right.
00:55:57.199 --> 00:55:57.440
That's right.
00:55:57.760 --> 00:55:58.800
That's that's really cool.
00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:01.679
So, so it being really cool, like it's very exciting.
00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:02.880
We gotta ask the question.
00:56:02.960 --> 00:56:05.280
Um, I know listeners are like, when are you gonna ask?
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:06.480
What's it retail for?
00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:07.280
How do I get one?
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:08.639
Yeah, great question.
00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:11.119
So it is we're we're we're still pre-market.
00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:16.079
So we'll be shipping out probably like in September-ish, um, potentially in October.
00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:19.599
Like we're gonna make sure that everything's go going good on the manufacturing side.
00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:21.440
So pre-orders are open right now.
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:27.440
The normal price of the product is gonna be$350, but our pre-order price is$299.
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:28.559
Uh, so go on now.
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:34.800
You can go to ohm.health ohm, just like the hat, ohm.health, and pre-order it now.
00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:37.679
And so we want to be able to, we'll be sending these out really shortly.
00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:39.519
I think we're recording this now in June.
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:42.079
And so it'll be out here in just a couple of months.
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:52.239
And I'd love for people to test it out and just enjoy the positive effects I think it'll have on on your perfect position to be able to handle all the craziness that comes with Thanksgiving and Christmas.
00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:52.559
Right.
00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:54.159
Got a hundred million laws nowhere.
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:55.039
Indeed.
00:56:55.199 --> 00:57:06.159
Well, we we always said too, we're like, this also feels like a really giftable thing where it's like, oh man, like this is a really pretty lamp that lives in your environment, but also serves like a really cool pretty non-invasive.
00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:08.159
Yes, very, very non-invasive.
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:16.000
And it's also something that, like, in the world of health technology, like especially for like nervous system regulation, all the technology is very clunky, it's ugly.
00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:25.280
Like people just end up shelving it or throwing it in some drawer where it's like this, if anything, you've got a really cool looking lamp at minimum, at base.
00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:34.639
But the maximum is that you can actually have something that is a true nervous system gym for you and can uh show you demonstrable positive effects in the long term.
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:34.960
Yeah.
00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:35.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:38.800
I'm gonna have to bust this out at Thanksgiving dinner for some people.
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:39.840
Yeah, that's there you go.
00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:42.719
Time to regulate everybody.
00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:44.239
Right, exactly.
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:45.519
How do people find you?
00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:48.000
Yeah, so I mean on Instagram, I'm at Dr.
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:48.719
J Wiles.
00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:50.639
Um, so that's a great way to find me.
00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:55.920
Also, if you go to uh my Substack, I write a lot on nervous system and nervous system resiliency.
00:57:56.079 --> 00:57:59.360
So uh I think it's just drjwiles.substack.com.
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:00.719
So that's a great place to find me.
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:03.199
And then also my my clinic where I do consulting.
00:58:03.280 --> 00:58:10.639
I don't do that as much, but I do have individuals uh that work under me and with me because I'm running more of the ohm side of things nowadays.
00:58:10.719 --> 00:58:14.719
It's just Thrive Wellness and Performance, so Thrive-Wellness.com.
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:16.239
Anything that we're missing?
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:17.519
No, that was fantastic.
00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:18.559
Thank you so much for your time.
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:19.840
Yeah, thank you very much, Dr.
00:58:20.079 --> 00:58:20.159
J.
00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:21.280
It's having you all.
00:58:21.519 --> 00:58:21.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:26.079
All right, well, listeners, I feel like this is a great place to wrap up lots of great information.
00:58:26.239 --> 00:58:31.360
Like, I'm gonna have to listen to this one more than once as far as all the data in there, all the good stuff.
00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:34.159
You guys enjoy the day, die living.