WEBVTT
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Single tracks coverage of the 2026 UTMB World Series Finals is brought to you by Norda, Precision Fuel, and Hydration and RAID Research.
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The single best way you can support our coverage in these next two weeks is by supporting our partners.
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You can use our discount codes linked in the show notes of these episodes.
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You can mention us in post-purchase surveys and a lot more, all that good stuff.
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It helps a ton.
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A few notes here.
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Obviously, Norda recently released the 055 shoe model.
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This is a fantastic trail super shoe, especially I think in the multi-day category and in these hundred-mile mountain races.
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Go check it out.
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They've also got a new partnership being announced, I believe, on August 26th.
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So stay tuned on socials for that.
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Precision, Feel and Hydration, our official nutrition partner of this coverage.
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They're going to be set up all week in Chamonix as well.
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They have a ton of athletes racing, including Caleb Olsen, Rachel Entrikken, Rachel Drake, Tyler Green, to name just a few.
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And then finally, Raid.
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They have a showroom here in Chamonix from August 24th through the 29th at Stanglard Sports.
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Uh that will include a range of 2027 prototypes that can be demoed to get your feedback on.
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They're also selling their LF5L vest, running belts, and current apparel line.
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So yeah, thank you to Raid, Norda, and Precision Fill and Hydration for making these entire two weeks possible.
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We are back with, I promise you, our absolutely last conversation wrapping up the 2026 UTMB World Series Finals.
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And before I introduce who we have here on set, I want to give thanks to the people behind the scenes that made this whole entire multi-week operation possible.
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My wife and business partner, Jules, Julia Campanelli, Anna Brann, who has been our show runner, and Emily Cameron, who has been taking awesome photos and video clips and pushing it up to social.
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We really appreciate the hard work behind the scenes.
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And yeah, I think in a lot of ways, I'm glad that this is the last one that we're doing.
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We've got good friend, fellow ultralunner, fellow creative Mike McMonagal here to help conduct the interview.
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We've got third place UTMB finisher Caleb Olsen to interview.
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And then off camera, but she might pop in with some great questions, Leah Yingling, who uh had a fantastic race as well.
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UTMB finishing 12th and running 24 low here, which in most years is like a podium finish.
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So just fantastic, and maybe we'll get some insights.
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But um my first question to you, Caleb, and I I think everyone here would agree.
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I mean, you're you're upright.
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So you you're you are in way better condition than at the same point post-Western states.
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Do you feel that way?
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Yeah, definitely.
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I don't know exactly why, but western states just destroys me, unlike any other race.
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But today, I'm like, I I don't feel great, but I slept a little last night, I can eat today, so that's already a huge win over Western.
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I want Mike to kick it off.
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I'm not sure why I'm here.
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Um but Caleb and I are gonna share this mic.
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Um, like we share everything.
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You want me to kick off the interview?
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What what do you want to know?
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Like how much, I mean, I guess how much have you recapped with Caleb versus like what is unanswered?
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I don't think I've talked to you yet, right?
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A couple text messages maybe.
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This is my first conversation with Caleb too.
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Um I want to know how so the other day we were talking about uh like before UTMB, we were sitting in the couch in one of these Airbnbs and with Leah and we were talking about like the the gap pace on Strava that it takes to that it probably takes to win UTMB, which is also normally like a 19 something on the full UTMB course.
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And I think we've decided that was like an 830 roughly gap pace.
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Obviously, it's like Strava gap pace, it's not super scientific and there's a lot of variables.
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But we said like roughly a mid-8, low to mid-eight gap pace wins UTMB.
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And Caleb sent me a screenshot.
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One of our very few texts we've exchanged so far is a screenshot of his gap pace of 759, and that did not win UTMB.
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Uh, and I'd love to hear what you think about that or and just how you feel about how the race played out with that pace.
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Yeah, I think like obviously the total course time, like both for the men's and women's races this year, were way faster, routes were different, conditions were perfect, so like it's hard to really make anything out of just the course time.
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But if you look at like great adjusted paces and stuff, which are also imperfect, but like it was just fast, like it wasn't just course changes, like Ben's race was insane.
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I cannot believe how fast he ran.
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I ran faster than I thought I'd be able to run, and faster than what I thought it would take to win, and was still third.
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Like it's crazy just how it I we say this every time anything happens, but like it just keeps getting faster and better.
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I mean, one of the things you said in our pre-race interview, again, to this point about splits, uh, you were very concerned about like the splits between certain areas of the course, like Le Chapew de Cormayer, and it was like, okay, that was like hard to do in training.
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How do I make it work on race day?
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Do you have any insights into like how that ended up working out for you for the most part during the race?
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Like, what is the the factor there?
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Is it just race energy?
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I think the one I was concerned about was more like the start to La Contamine just seemed like unreasonably fast to me.
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And I do think that with a like mile-long tunnel of people just screaming as loud as they can in your face, it makes the like you kind of forget that you're even running because your ears are numb and ringing, and like there's just so much energy that you kind of just transport to lay contamine and like you're suddenly there in a much faster time than you realized.
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And that's so different than like when I'm just tired doing a training run by myself.
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So those times ended up just working themselves out.
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The later splits during the course actually ended up being pretty close to most of my training runs.
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I was trying to do them at what I felt like could be like a reasonable UTMB effort.
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And for a lot of them, different sections were within like a minute of what I did when I was scoping it all out.
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So that felt like it was pretty well paced.
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Did you actually so I saw you at the Valor Cine Aid station?
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That was like the last official crude stop.
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Did you I know you talked about it a little bit in your substack, like the day before the race, but did you really believe that uh you were gonna close as well as you did with like the second fastest ascent to Flagier and the fastest ever descent from Flagier to the finish?
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Um, I've raced CCC three times now, and every time that has felt like my strongest segment.
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So I felt like uh pretty confident the Valor scene to the finish would be decent.
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And I didn't know like exactly how many minutes that would be.
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I thought, I think in my Substack thing before I said like if somebody's within five minutes of me, I can get them.
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And Baptiste was a little more than that and didn't quite get him.
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So uh I knew I could do it relatively faster than most people, but I wasn't exactly sure what that meant.
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And that's that's the thing.
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Like, I saw you at aid there, and I didn't want to mislead you.
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And I really didn't say anything.
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The transition was so fast, but Baptiste looked like okay.
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I wasn't gonna tell you that he looked terrible or that and he was also 10 minutes up.
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So I think what's remarkable to me is the fact that you set those times without having what seemed to be like a possible rabbit ahead of you to catch.
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I know it would have been nice to be able to see him or like really believe because you're getting different information from everybody out there.
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So many random spectators are telling you, like, he's right that he just came through, and then the next person, yeah, he's like 10 minutes up, he's 12 minutes up, he's eight minutes up, everybody's saying something different.
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And so all you really know is like he's not that far, but you can't see anything, so you're just kind of hoping that it's true.
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And I I think it probably would have been it would have made a big difference if I could have like actually seen him and known for myself, like, yeah, he is right there.
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Have you looked in s to see how some of your later splits compare to your CCCs that you've done?
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My fastest CCC descent, I think, was the 2024 one, and my UTMB descent was six seconds slower than that.
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But it was at the end of yeah, but it was at the end of UTMB instead of CCC.
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That's impressive.
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Um so I think your race plan from what I understood was to stay pretty chill for a while and then try to sort of unleash and finish really strong.
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Um you sort of found yourself definitely in the top ten.
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I think there was a really it seemed like a pretty fun group of maybe five of you that were literally running seemed like side by side through at least like hot comball.
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Um I know when you ran Western States and when you won Western States, you sort of and like TGC had a sort of similar mindset where it was like you were gonna stay relatively chill, but in those races, relatively chill put you in the front of the race.
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Is that how this played out?
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And did you feel like you executed that plan how you intended?
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I think that is pretty much how this played out.
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This time, relatively chill did not put me at the front, but it actually did put me farther up than I thought it would.
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I was kind of not going, I I was trying to tell myself not to worry or be surprised if I was like 20 people back at Lake Hantamine or at Le Shepou.
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And instead I was like five to ten.
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It was kind of such a tight group between like three through ten that it didn't really matter where you were in that group because we were all basically together.
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But I was in that group, and that was like a pleasant surprise to know that I was still up in the top ten, and it felt like a decently conservative pace.
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Um, but I do think what you said about like running with those guys through the night, I think that was like maybe the highlight of the whole thing, or like the most fun part, was we got like probably seven of us going basically just this long train of people in the middle of the night with a full moon in like the Italian side of the Alps with like Mont Blanc lit up in the background, and then we're all just like rolling together, slowly catching up to like Chris Myers was up ahead, like reeled him in, passed him.
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We could see Batiste's headlamp up ahead, and it just felt like we were totally working together.
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And then oh, and I was with I was like sandwiched between Zach Miller and Drew Holman, so we had like this uh American muscle, like somebody somebody came up.
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American muscle.
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That's somebody came up behind us on an e-bike and like started, they go, Oh, America, and they like pull out their phone and start playing Born in the USA on like their speaker on the phone, and Zach's like, I actually can't relate to this.
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I was born in Kenya, so this doesn't apply to me.
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And then I learned some new stuff about Zach.
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But he's born in Kenya, you lived there for three years.
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Wow.
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When he was born, yeah.
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I didn't know it, but yeah, that part was really fun.
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And that reminds me, there's so much that we don't see from a live stream standpoint in the middle of the night, because yeah, like uh typically Shippew to at least Cormayer, sometimes as far as Grand Colfray is totally in the dark, but so much happens in that in those 40-ish miles.
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I mean, actually, I I I want to ask Mike about like your thoughts on Caleb at Cormayer.
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Like, did you think what with what you saw at Cormayer, did you feel like there were this result was in the cards?
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I was that's what I was about to ask, actually, because I saw Caleb in the village, I think it's the village of Delone just before the uh Cormayer aid station, and what was that 3:30, 4 in the morning, something like that?
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Um, about 50 miles into the race, and Caleb indicated to me that he was starting to have maybe some stomach issues, I think, there.
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And I knew all I knew at that point was that you were running with this pack solidly in the top, like you were basically the thick of the top 10, top five.
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And uh that pack was together at the most recent split at the top of the descent into Cormair, and then I see you in the village, there was a little bit of separation, you were off sort of off the back of that pack, and it had spread out a little bit, maybe a minute or two, and then you indicated some stomach issues, maybe.
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So I got a little like made me a little anxious, but you seemed extremely lucid and you were still moving really well, and it like seemed like you were under control.
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So that was my impression.
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Um definitely made me a little anxious, but maybe tell us how you took care of that.
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How'd you recover from that?
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Something about the downhill to core my air.
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I knew that would be hard, but it I went from like being right with that pack to kind of letting them all go in front because my stomach was being weird on the downhill, and then like coming out of that aid station, it was still pretty bad.
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And so I kind of just took some time to regroup on my own.
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Like I wanted a little space to go my own pace, and then things started clicking again.
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For some reason, the uphill was like a little easier on my GI system than the downhill this round.
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So I was able to like do most of my good eating and drinking and getting the stomach under control while I was going uphill, and uh then things turned around going up bare tone and got a lot better.
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Was that the biggest thing that you struggled with all race?
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Was that like your moment, or were there bits and pieces throughout the effort?
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That was that was a low patch for sure.
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Uh looking back at how I ran now, I see that um Champagne Lock to Valercine seems like I kind of went slower than I thought I was going.
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And like I lost some ground there.
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I didn't even realize really that I was letting up there, but I think I was just kind of on my own in like fifth place, but I don't know, sort of unmotived not unmotivated, but like feeling like the lead was getting away from me and along my off, and uh you're just so deep in it at that point.
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I think I had just kind of let off the gas a little bit.
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Um the next time I saw you after Cormaillere was basically the bottom, uh sort of the beginning stage of the Grand Culf Ray climb shortly after Arnoua.
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And I mean I was psyched because then you know, the last I saw you was the interaction I just described in Cormaillera.
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And now all of a sudden here comes Caleb looking like he just started running and up a very steep part of the the Grand Colfray climb, moving really, really well.
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Um there'd been some separation now, and then really that pack was had broken up, and you were sharing you were fourth and fifth place with the uh Antoine defending TDS champ, I think, and uh from or last year's champ.
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Um and yeah, at that point I I think I could tell like Caleb very well might win this race.
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Um so were you were you just hunting the rest of the way?
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Uh pretty much.
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Oh my my goal was definitely not to move back from that point on.
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I think I was when you saw me, I was in fifth, and I actually didn't know exactly where I was, but I was basically like from here on out, I really shouldn't be letting people pass.
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I'm gonna stick with anything that any moves or anyone who tries to go.
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And I kind of gave myself until Champagne Locke to start like making a superconscious effort to move up, but I at least wanted to hold where I was.
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I know we talked about it earlier, but I want to come back to it.
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Well, actually, first I have a comment and then I I do want to just get your take on like that opportunity to compete with Baptiste through the finish line.
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When I saw you between lot the the descent between La Florea and the finish, I actually I this is where I felt the most home court advantage for a French athlete.
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Like I saw a 40-second difference between you and Baptiste.
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And I again, this is probably not under Baptiste's control.
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It in fact it definitely isn't, but he had this posse of people running with him the entire way.
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And I'm sure that they were saying in French just like encouragements, instilling a sense of urgency, and like there you are 40 seconds back, like fighting like hell to catch up with him.
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And I really wish it was truly one-on-one, but it wasn't.
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It was like it felt to me, it felt like 40 on one.
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And I wanted, I wanted to join him, like, let's make a 40 on two.
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But I didn't want to like, because we're American, I didn't, and it was like an obvious thing.
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I didn't, I just like just held my position on the side of the road and like let you guys go past.
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Um I mean, is that something that you just have to deal with at these races, like internationally, where you feel like to some extent your back's a little bit against the wall and like the deck to some extent is kind of stacked against you?
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Maybe a little bit.
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Like those things are small and like maybe don't make a huge difference, but also maybe gave him you know 40 seconds worth of encouragement and urgency that could have made the difference on like passing into second.
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And UTMB's got like all these rule, like there's this whole handbook and like list of penalties for these different rule infractions and stuff.
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And it feels like uh, like from my perspective, like you gotta take those all seriously and they're gonna be enforced.
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And then you see it out on course and you're like, okay, but that rule only applies if you know the person, but how can you prove that you do or don't know the person?
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Like, there's so many random people just hopping in everywhere and uh doing like supporting or assisting, but like it's not really supporting or assisting, or it's not under the athlete's control.
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I don't know how any of this stuff is defined or enforced, but it is uh interesting.
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It it could make a difference, I think, in some cases.
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I was pissed.
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I was screaming English into that crowd.
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What's the what's the solution?
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You can't tell, like, do you just tell supporters don't run with them?
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And then what if they do?
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Like it's a public trail.
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It's so tough.
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Yeah.
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It is so tough.
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Um yeah.
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I just think in that moment where every single second mattered and you were clearly gaining and you had the sense of urgency and you were dictating, it was it was annoying that he again.
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This is just showing my bias.
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It was just annoying to see him have that advantage of people making sure that he appreciated the moment and that he got a sense of urgency.
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And it sounded like he didn't get that urgency until you guys got on the road.
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And like there was a little bit of a separation behind 'cause it was, I think I counted 36 seconds when I saw you about two miles out.
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Ended up being like four.
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I do I do think that that's just home court advantage, though, and there's that's a thing in sport, and I think that's okay.
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Um and yeah, I mean I assume Baptiste knew how close Caleb was because of that crowd, probably, and it would have been very interesting to see.
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I mean, Caleb closed I think six minutes from Valercine to Flager, six minutes on the climb.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:59.440
Six on the climb, and that means another three and a half-ish on the descent.
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:04.559
Like you were closing like a monster and in a vacuum.
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:06.799
Yeah, I think Caleb passes Baptiste.
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:08.240
I mean, was that enjoyable too?
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.640
Did you enjoy that experience or was it stressful?
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:20.079
Uh it was stressful, but like it's fun to be fighting, it's fun to have something that forces you to like get the absolute most out of yourself.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:24.720
And without him there, I wouldn't have gone as fast and I wouldn't have gotten as much out of myself.
00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:25.680
So that was cool.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:32.559
But you're also just like top priority is not falling on a route, going down that trail and face planning.
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:43.599
So like you're kind of thinking about that, but also you're kind of just thinking about where your foot's gonna go for the next step, and you're locked in enough on that that you can't really think about anything else.
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:51.200
I wanted to ask about uh I think this is the second night you've run through, right?
00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:51.680
Ever.
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:52.799
Um GPT.
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:54.960
Well, I guess TGC starts at midnight.
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:58.400
Second full night, maybe that you've raced through.
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:00.160
Um many nights on rainier.
00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:12.960
Um and I was just thinking about GPT 100 in Australia being last, I think, November being kind of a test run for your UTMB experience.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:25.920
Um yeah, I'd so I'm curious to hear, you know, reflect on that and as sort of one of the early stages of your UTMB prep and um how that how you felt about running through the night here.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:28.480
I think it was good I had done it.
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:35.440
It was also good that I paced a bunch of friends, including you, at various hundred milers over the summer and like went through the night a bunch.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:40.640
I learned some stuff about lights and like I have a good light system now.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.200
I felt like I could see really well the whole time.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:49.039
Um I think we all got lucky with like the perfect weather conditions.
00:20:49.119 --> 00:21:02.720
Like GPT was pretty horrendous overnight, and so after dealing with being freezing cold and soaked all night, this was super pleasant, and like relative to that, it felt easy and chill, and I was just in a t-shirt all night and felt great.
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:07.440
So it was nice to not have to really worry about managing conditions too much.
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:14.720
So uh, and actually Leah, I don't know if you know this, but Mike had McDonald's last night for the first time in like 10 years.
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:15.839
So did Leah.
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:16.640
Oh, and so did Leah.
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:17.599
Okay, definitely did too.
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.160
That blows my mind.
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:20.319
That's someone that goes to McDonald's all the time, blew my mind.
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:34.000
But but we were at McDonald's talking, and I was telling Mike that one of my takeaways from this week is I genuinely have less of an idea of what makes a responsible build-up schedule for a race like this than ever before.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:44.240
Like you've seen people who tried to do the double that had some good days, some bad days, hard rock, UTM double, some good days, some bad days, some people that made this a priority race, good days like you, bad days like others.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.400
I have no idea what makes sense anymore.
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:59.519
Um, I know you had you've had a it's been a tumultuous season, but I mean, I guess for you, have you been like, was it a what is that, was it a satisfactory enough build to have like enough confidence to do this?
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:09.599
Uh yeah, I mean I didn't really have I didn't know where I was at in terms of like my fitness and with how training had been going.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:11.759
I was confident that I could have a good day.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.920
Like I was confident I'd be top ten if I was going for that.
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:28.559
But I wasn't really sure if I like had what it take to be competing for the win or exactly w how I should be thinking about my expectations for this.
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:40.240
And I think that I mean this is like really my only race of the year, pretty much, and I don't think I would purposely choose to do that in the future.
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:49.119
I that puts a lot of weight and pressure on one performance, but I do think it makes it easier to not come into it burned out.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:23:03.680
Dealing with injury leading into it is not the ideal way to get to that point, but like we uh we've talked about this before, but like it seems like the Europeans often will do a ski season and then they'll start really ramping up running in like April.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:10.000
And I, because of this injury, basically did a bike season and then started ramping up running in May.
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:19.359
And I don't I wouldn't purposely do that, but I do think there's something to just starting like really focused running a little bit later.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.839
So I'm sure things are sort of just starting to soak in.
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.960
Um, but you've had a little bit of time here now to reflect.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.799
Um I kind of had a f I just had a feeling this week.
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:35.519
I kind of had a feeling that you were gonna win UTMB.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.759
Um like it just felt like it was gonna go really well.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:52.400
And to sort of what you were just talking about, I I imagine it was a little bit difficult to have that con that level of confidence to compete for the win or even for the podium, um, given the season you've had.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:24:00.079
Um so I'm curious now as it's just starting to settle in, like, does this feel does this feel like a win?
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:05.359
Um you know, because you know, I I'm not trying to say I'm disappointed in you.
00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:08.559
I'm not mad, I'm I'm disappointed.
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:18.079
Um, but I think you know, I put you first on fantasy fantasy free trail because I really did believe that that was a possibility, um, if not a likelihood.
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:26.799
Um and so maybe I have like like a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the feeling that maybe you're feeling, because I'm sure you thought a win was possible too.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:42.960
Um I I mean I don't think I don't think that I could have I think you could replay that day for me 10 times and like maybe something would happen once where I somehow win.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:46.640
But I think that Ben had it this year.
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:49.119
Like he ran that so well.
00:24:49.200 --> 00:25:01.279
I don't think that running for with any different strategy or like if I could somehow identify every little mistake and add up every minute I lost, I don't think that would have made the difference of me being able to beat Ben.
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.640
I think he was fitter and he was the best this year.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:14.640
Um but I do think that I once you I got a bunch of different thoughts.
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:16.160
You're right, I am still processing all this.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:18.079
No, what comes to mind first?
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:23.839
Um the first thing that comes to mind is I would like to win this race some year.
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:44.720
Winning feels a lot different than getting third, and after you've I I was kind of mentioning this to Mike earlier, but like you experience these big wins at something like Western States, and then after that, you're kind of just looking for that same level of like thrill again, and anything less than a win feels like a loss to some extent.
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.599
Like it is, yeah, I know.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:26:15.359
And like third is awesome, and I'm stoked with it, and it's maybe as good as I could have hoped for on the day, but also it's like, oh man, I really don't have that same feeling that I did after a big win, and so it makes me want it, and like I see why I I remember hearing from and reading some stuff from Ben after last year's win, he got second or after last year's second place, he was kind of like, Man, I didn't do it.
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:15.920
I missed it.
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:17.200
I gotta go try again next year.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.440
And I'm and then this year he's like, I'm here to win.
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:20.640
That's the only point.
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.640
And like I get what he's saying.
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:25.039
It kind of feels maybe a little like that.
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:32.799
Assuming you're gonna come back next year or in the very near future, do you believe that all of the necessary changes come in training?
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:34.160
Is it a race execution thing?
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:36.160
Like, where where is the difference, do you think?
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:54.240
I think it would have been really helpful to not have a stress reaction earlier in the season, and that that would have let me get into the level of training that I wanted to be at for a couple extra months, and those extra months could have made the difference.
00:26:54.799 --> 00:27:01.519
Um that's probably the biggest thing is like I just gotta keep myself healthy all year.
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:08.160
Um, I also think kind of what we were talking about earlier with like the race schedule thing.
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:12.799
I think there's some benefit to doing at least one other decent race before.
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:26.079
And both taking the pressure off of like only having a single result, but also going through the whole like build, taper, race, recover cycle gives your body a break, but you're still in good running shape.
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:35.920
But it lets you it gives you like three weeks of pretty low volume with one race, and I think that that is good for running, like good for building.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:37.279
It's it's really interesting.
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.079
Uh, we had Ben Diemon in studio pre-race, unfortunately.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.240
The audio file got corrupted, we never got to publish it.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:56.160
But I do recall he did say in that pre-race interview that he attributes his confidence to this race and his intentions for this race to the fact that earlier this year he raced Trans Vulcania and he raced Marathon uh Mount Blanc Marathon 90k.
00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:02.240
And in both of those races, the overall execution of the race, both races felt Keek called it futuristic.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:11.599
Like they were futuristic, they were uh races that would like permanently change the way competitors think about pacing and where to make moves, etc.
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:23.279
And because he had those two experiences with like Christian Menoggio and Louis Saint at Marathon Du Mont Blanc and like David Sinclair and that whole crew at Transwalcania, it was just a natural thing for him to apply that to UTMB.
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:24.559
I think that's interesting.
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:25.839
I do too.
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:28.400
Um last question from me.
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.640
Maybe Mike has a few more.
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:42.799
I think that you, I'm not gonna say you pioneered it, but I think you have this really cool content format of time capsuling these journals that you then published the day before the race, like you did it at Transgrand Canaria.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:44.400
You did it again for UTMB.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:49.440
And in the one that you did for UTMB, you said that you've never wanted something more badly than a win at UTMB.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:50.400
How come?
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:56.720
Um That yeah, that was my perspective in December.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:06.400
And I like I think it still holds true, but I like UTMB and this race is kind of what got me into trail running in the first place.
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:14.799
Like I remember hearing about it and seeing a YouTube video and being like, whoa, how do I qualify to do or like what is the process to ever do that?
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:20.960
And like that's how I learned that there are ultra marathon races, and that's why I signed up for my first 50k.
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:25.440
I was like, I should start trying to qualify so that someday I can get out there and do that.
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:34.880
And then like climbing Mount Blanc, coming here for five years, doing our anniversary here every year, like it's just become a special place for me.
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:39.039
And I think it's probably the coolest.
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:45.039
If there's a cooler course that also has this level of competition, I would love to know about it.
00:29:45.200 --> 00:30:00.160
But because I think that this is like pretty unarguably like the most iconic mountain race there is, and so it like captures a lot of my attention and it uh to win this is like the absolute pinnacle of the sport.
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:02.960
So I would like to do that someday.
00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:14.400
In those sort of formative ultra running years, and like when you learned of UTMB and ran your first 50k, was there ever a glimmer of a vision in your mind of standing on the UTMB podium?
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.799
When you beat me by two minutes at the corner cane in 50k, you were like, okay, that's how I know.
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:39.119
Definitely zero vision of that ever, or of like being able to do this as a professional athlete or any of where we are now, or sitting with you guys talking about this in a single track studio before single track existed, with you as a professional photographer for the brand that I run for.
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:43.680
Like, yeah, no, at all none of that was anything I would have imagined.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:50.319
So it's pretty cool where we've come and I'm excited to see where the next few years take us.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:52.079
Let's end here.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:59.039
Um what do you suspect the next yeah, four months look like, end of the year?
00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:01.200
I don't know.
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:06.160
I wanna we've got a nice let me tell you about the next four days first.
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:19.279
We're we're hanging out doing an award ceremony and dinner tonight, and then we're going to a hotel on Lake Geneva, and I'm doing nothing for like three days, just sitting there.
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:27.039
And I'm hoping that during that time of just sitting there eating a bunch of good food, it just hits me of like, oh, this is what I should do next.
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:44.000
Because I need to figure out if I'm gonna go back to my real job next Monday, if I'm going to sign up for any other races, if I'm gonna do the race that I am signed up for that I don't think I'm gonna do, but I'm I'm on the start list right now for Grand Raid.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:55.599
And I was kind of just as a backup plan, like in case I ended up DNFing this at mile 20 and needed something else to hop in, but now I can't get my head around having to do another hard hundred miler this year.
00:31:55.680 --> 00:32:02.400
So I've got a lot of stuff to think about over the next few days, and then I'll know what the next four months look like a little better.
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.680
You said doing nothing at the hotel in Geneva for the next three days, but I'm pretty sure.
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:11.759
Don't you have like a like a golf lesson, maybe a couple things like that?
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:16.240
Doing nothing except for a golf lesson and a tennis lesson and a massage.
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:19.440
Good point.
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:20.319
Yeah, you're right.
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:21.200
That's not nothing.
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:22.240
It's not nothing.
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:26.160
So there's a there's a small chance you might do Grand Raid.
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:28.400
I'd say a very small chance.
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:33.519
And if not grand raid anything in November, December, would you close the season?
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:39.920
I I mean that's what you just asked, and my answer was basically I don't know.
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:41.359
So it's still I don't know.
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:48.079
But yeah, I I would potentially like I actually feel not like I could go for a run right now, but I feel okay after this.
00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:50.559
I feel a lot better than I did after Western.
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:58.000
And like if the legs are fine next week when I go for a jog, then I'd consider like that.
00:32:58.079 --> 00:32:58.720
That's okay.
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:01.359
Yeah, it doesn't hurt that bad.
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:04.400
Um I'd consider signing up for something else.
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:09.759
I don't quite have the airline status that I want yet for this year, so I need another big flight.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.640
So that might prompt me to sign up for one more big race.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:14.640
You gotta get that silver medallion.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:15.759
Yeah, silver.
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:19.599
Yeah, that's cute.
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.640
Um before Leah, any questions for Caleb?
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:31.200
Mike.
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:34.319
I can fill the the space while Leah thinks.
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:42.240
Um because maybe what I offer to this interview is just uh maybe just my relationship with you guys and with Caleb.
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:52.799
But uh I think it's kind of cool for maybe people to understand that Caleb is a kind of regular guy and he's getting golf lessons at a hotel and tennis lessons at a hotel this week.
00:33:52.960 --> 00:34:00.400
Um not that that's something regular guys do, but um maybe you'll be like a professional golfer 15 years from now, and this is the start.
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:02.160
This would be the very start.
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:13.519
Um but I I just want to comment on like I think it's really cool that going back to kind of how fast you just ran UTMB, but we said 759 GAP.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:22.639
Um I have the the ple the pleasure of doing a lot of, I don't know if we can call them your training runs, but spending some time with you on the trails and in the mountains.
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:29.599
And often it's, you know, 9, 10, 11 minute GAP on Strava.
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:40.320
Um and unless you believe that those runs are the difference between third place and first place, which I hope you don't believe because I don't.
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:48.320
Um I just think it's cool to kind of call out that you you have a lot of fun and you do a lot of like really chill stuff with your friends.
00:34:48.559 --> 00:35:01.679
Um and also, and it's just you know, not in spite of that, but um it's weird for me to say it, but like you are the one of the best ultra mountain runners in the world, um, and you still do super chill stuff like that.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.039
So I don't that's maybe it's just a comment unless you have anything to say about it.
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:06.880
In spite of running with you.
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:08.960
It's yeah.
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:10.719
Uh I don't know.
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:21.440
I think like you don't have to run fast at all the time or at all, really, to be good at just running medium pace in the mountains for 20 hours.
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:34.960
Uh something you said after Western States was like you really didn't want to be good at Western States, and you wanted to be good and you wanted to be associated more with like races that inspire you, like UTMB.
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:40.639
Do you feel like your performance at UTMB has solidified more of that feeling in your mind?
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:48.800
Yeah, it's the first mountain race that I've done where I've been like, all right, that's proof to me that I can be good at mountain races too.
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:56.639
And like, yeah, I did GPT, that was solid, but it feels really good to know, okay, I don't need to be stuck in like just the runnable stuff.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:36:03.280
I can also compete for top finishes at like the stuff that I really want to be good at.
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:15.280
Did you find like any areas of for improvement or weaknesses out there that like when you come back next year, which you will do, like that you're like, if I do this, then X?
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:25.920
Yeah, some like race day things, like little gear mistakes or little nutrition issues, like some small stuff like that.
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:36.960
But probably the biggest thing is like I just feel like I need more like a longer runway on training, and I'd probably tweak my training a little bit.
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:58.559
And um I noticed I don't know, I don't know if um if this is a good I haven't made sense of this yet, but once I got out to France like at the beginning of the month, all of my runs started going so much better, and I was running faster and like things felt easier and I was more excited about it.
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:05.119
And and in the Wasatch, everything just felt like such a hard, tough, slow grind.
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:17.119
And I don't know if that's just because of the altitude or like the trails in the Wasatch are tougher or something, but maybe spending more time out here and getting more of that like this is all clicking feeling would be helpful.
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:23.280
So I'd consider doing like a longer, like a full summer or a full season out here leading up next year.
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:26.320
How many fish did you catch in this training block?
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:34.400
Oh uh not as many as I'd like to, but probably I'd guess I'd guess more than 10, but less than 20.
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:35.519
Nice.
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:36.000
Yeah.
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:36.800
Congrats.
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:37.760
Thank you.
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:39.519
One of my best days fishing.
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:42.079
I saw you that morning running down from the lake.
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:48.239
Does the French cuisine reignite the motivation to cook a Michelin star meal?
00:37:48.639 --> 00:38:04.239
Oh, for context, um I was I briefly had a goal this year to try and make one fancy meal for like my friends or family uh per month this year to try and become a better chef.
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:06.559
And I fizzled out after about two months.
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:10.000
But yes, I have been loving the food out here.
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:12.239
We've got a nice dinner on deck tonight.
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:20.800
We've got a lot of good meals on deck the next three days, and maybe I'll steal some recipes and try and recreate them for you guys.
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:22.960
Last comment from me before we go.
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.880
I just think, and I've seen it before, but to see it again at UTV was cool.
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:42.719
It's amazing how united your family is around your races and you know, crew chief Morgan, parents, Lance and Julie, uh Meg, Jared, Kate, Minty, Brett Kirby, like it was a rock star team out there.
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:46.480
I mean I'm Fletcher and Haley, I'm rock star, rock star team.
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:48.000
That was really cool to see them all in action.
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:49.360
Yeah, it was awesome.
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.880
It was so cool to have the whole gang out there doing it together.
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:56.159
Everybody had like their role, and it was really cool.
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:07.039
That was the first time where we've had Morgan like strategically picked different people from the crew to be the man or the person in the tent at each different spot where I could have crew.
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:16.880
And uh each one played their role perfectly and like gave me the energy and the advice that I needed to hear in that moment, and it all that part was awesome.
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:18.400
I loved having the crew out there.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:07.440
Single tracks coverage of the 2026 UTMB World Series Finals is brought to you by Norda, Precision Fuel, and Hydration and RAID Research.
00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:12.960
The single best way you can support our coverage in these next two weeks is by supporting our partners.
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You can use our discount codes linked in the show notes of these episodes.
00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:20.640
You can mention us in post-purchase surveys and a lot more, all that good stuff.
00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:21.920
It helps a ton.
00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:23.039
A few notes here.
00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:26.399
Obviously, Norda recently released the 055 shoe model.
00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:34.479
This is a fantastic trail super shoe, especially I think in the multi-day category and in these hundred-mile mountain races.
00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:35.280
Go check it out.
00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:39.840
They've also got a new partnership being announced, I believe, on August 26th.
00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:41.679
So stay tuned on socials for that.
00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:45.359
Precision, Feel and Hydration, our official nutrition partner of this coverage.
00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:47.520
They're going to be set up all week in Chamonix as well.
00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:55.520
They have a ton of athletes racing, including Caleb Olsen, Rachel Entrikken, Rachel Drake, Tyler Green, to name just a few.
00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:56.960
And then finally, Raid.
00:00:57.119 --> 00:01:02.000
They have a showroom here in Chamonix from August 24th through the 29th at Stanglard Sports.
00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:07.280
Uh that will include a range of 2027 prototypes that can be demoed to get your feedback on.
00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:11.840
They're also selling their LF5L vest, running belts, and current apparel line.
00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:18.000
So yeah, thank you to Raid, Norda, and Precision Fill and Hydration for making these entire two weeks possible.
00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:27.040
We are back with, I promise you, our absolutely last conversation wrapping up the 2026 UTMB World Series Finals.
00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:36.159
And before I introduce who we have here on set, I want to give thanks to the people behind the scenes that made this whole entire multi-week operation possible.
00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:47.519
My wife and business partner, Jules, Julia Campanelli, Anna Brann, who has been our show runner, and Emily Cameron, who has been taking awesome photos and video clips and pushing it up to social.
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:49.920
We really appreciate the hard work behind the scenes.
00:01:50.079 --> 00:01:54.879
And yeah, I think in a lot of ways, I'm glad that this is the last one that we're doing.
00:01:55.120 --> 00:02:02.079
We've got good friend, fellow ultralunner, fellow creative Mike McMonagal here to help conduct the interview.
00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:06.480
We've got third place UTMB finisher Caleb Olsen to interview.
00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:13.759
And then off camera, but she might pop in with some great questions, Leah Yingling, who uh had a fantastic race as well.
00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:20.000
UTMB finishing 12th and running 24 low here, which in most years is like a podium finish.
00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:22.240
So just fantastic, and maybe we'll get some insights.
00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:27.840
But um my first question to you, Caleb, and I I think everyone here would agree.
00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:29.120
I mean, you're you're upright.
00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:33.840
So you you're you are in way better condition than at the same point post-Western states.
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Do you feel that way?
00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:35.919
Yeah, definitely.
00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:40.879
I don't know exactly why, but western states just destroys me, unlike any other race.
00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:49.759
But today, I'm like, I I don't feel great, but I slept a little last night, I can eat today, so that's already a huge win over Western.
00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:53.280
I want Mike to kick it off.
00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:54.879
I'm not sure why I'm here.
00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:57.840
Um but Caleb and I are gonna share this mic.
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Um, like we share everything.
00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:02.960
You want me to kick off the interview?
00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:04.240
What what do you want to know?
00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:08.240
Like how much, I mean, I guess how much have you recapped with Caleb versus like what is unanswered?
00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:09.680
I don't think I've talked to you yet, right?
00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:11.120
A couple text messages maybe.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:14.080
This is my first conversation with Caleb too.
00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:37.199
Um I want to know how so the other day we were talking about uh like before UTMB, we were sitting in the couch in one of these Airbnbs and with Leah and we were talking about like the the gap pace on Strava that it takes to that it probably takes to win UTMB, which is also normally like a 19 something on the full UTMB course.
00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:40.400
And I think we've decided that was like an 830 roughly gap pace.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:44.800
Obviously, it's like Strava gap pace, it's not super scientific and there's a lot of variables.
00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:48.639
But we said like roughly a mid-8, low to mid-eight gap pace wins UTMB.
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:50.080
And Caleb sent me a screenshot.
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One of our very few texts we've exchanged so far is a screenshot of his gap pace of 759, and that did not win UTMB.
00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:04.960
Uh, and I'd love to hear what you think about that or and just how you feel about how the race played out with that pace.
00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:21.360
Yeah, I think like obviously the total course time, like both for the men's and women's races this year, were way faster, routes were different, conditions were perfect, so like it's hard to really make anything out of just the course time.
00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:34.720
But if you look at like great adjusted paces and stuff, which are also imperfect, but like it was just fast, like it wasn't just course changes, like Ben's race was insane.
00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:36.480
I cannot believe how fast he ran.
00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:43.680
I ran faster than I thought I'd be able to run, and faster than what I thought it would take to win, and was still third.
00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:53.680
Like it's crazy just how it I we say this every time anything happens, but like it just keeps getting faster and better.
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I mean, one of the things you said in our pre-race interview, again, to this point about splits, uh, you were very concerned about like the splits between certain areas of the course, like Le Chapew de Cormayer, and it was like, okay, that was like hard to do in training.
00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:10.319
How do I make it work on race day?
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:14.800
Do you have any insights into like how that ended up working out for you for the most part during the race?
00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:16.160
Like, what is the the factor there?
00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:17.439
Is it just race energy?
00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:23.439
I think the one I was concerned about was more like the start to La Contamine just seemed like unreasonably fast to me.
00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:45.360
And I do think that with a like mile-long tunnel of people just screaming as loud as they can in your face, it makes the like you kind of forget that you're even running because your ears are numb and ringing, and like there's just so much energy that you kind of just transport to lay contamine and like you're suddenly there in a much faster time than you realized.
00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:49.600
And that's so different than like when I'm just tired doing a training run by myself.
00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:52.959
So those times ended up just working themselves out.
00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:58.480
The later splits during the course actually ended up being pretty close to most of my training runs.
00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:04.480
I was trying to do them at what I felt like could be like a reasonable UTMB effort.
00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:10.160
And for a lot of them, different sections were within like a minute of what I did when I was scoping it all out.
00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:13.839
So that felt like it was pretty well paced.
00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:17.439
Did you actually so I saw you at the Valor Cine Aid station?
00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:19.839
That was like the last official crude stop.
00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:36.000
Did you I know you talked about it a little bit in your substack, like the day before the race, but did you really believe that uh you were gonna close as well as you did with like the second fastest ascent to Flagier and the fastest ever descent from Flagier to the finish?
00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:42.639
Um, I've raced CCC three times now, and every time that has felt like my strongest segment.
00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:48.160
So I felt like uh pretty confident the Valor scene to the finish would be decent.
00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:51.120
And I didn't know like exactly how many minutes that would be.
00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:56.000
I thought, I think in my Substack thing before I said like if somebody's within five minutes of me, I can get them.
00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.319
And Baptiste was a little more than that and didn't quite get him.
00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:06.000
So uh I knew I could do it relatively faster than most people, but I wasn't exactly sure what that meant.
00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:07.120
And that's that's the thing.
00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:10.720
Like, I saw you at aid there, and I didn't want to mislead you.
00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:11.920
And I really didn't say anything.
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.600
The transition was so fast, but Baptiste looked like okay.
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:19.279
I wasn't gonna tell you that he looked terrible or that and he was also 10 minutes up.
00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:30.959
So I think what's remarkable to me is the fact that you set those times without having what seemed to be like a possible rabbit ahead of you to catch.
00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:38.000
I know it would have been nice to be able to see him or like really believe because you're getting different information from everybody out there.
00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:48.240
So many random spectators are telling you, like, he's right that he just came through, and then the next person, yeah, he's like 10 minutes up, he's 12 minutes up, he's eight minutes up, everybody's saying something different.
00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:54.800
And so all you really know is like he's not that far, but you can't see anything, so you're just kind of hoping that it's true.
00:07:55.040 --> 00:08:04.319
And I I think it probably would have been it would have made a big difference if I could have like actually seen him and known for myself, like, yeah, he is right there.
00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:11.199
Have you looked in s to see how some of your later splits compare to your CCCs that you've done?
00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:19.279
My fastest CCC descent, I think, was the 2024 one, and my UTMB descent was six seconds slower than that.
00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:24.800
But it was at the end of yeah, but it was at the end of UTMB instead of CCC.
00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:27.040
That's impressive.
00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:38.639
Um so I think your race plan from what I understood was to stay pretty chill for a while and then try to sort of unleash and finish really strong.
00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:43.440
Um you sort of found yourself definitely in the top ten.
00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:53.120
I think there was a really it seemed like a pretty fun group of maybe five of you that were literally running seemed like side by side through at least like hot comball.
00:08:53.519 --> 00:09:08.799
Um I know when you ran Western States and when you won Western States, you sort of and like TGC had a sort of similar mindset where it was like you were gonna stay relatively chill, but in those races, relatively chill put you in the front of the race.
00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:10.080
Is that how this played out?
00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:13.440
And did you feel like you executed that plan how you intended?
00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:17.600
I think that is pretty much how this played out.
00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:22.879
This time, relatively chill did not put me at the front, but it actually did put me farther up than I thought it would.
00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:31.679
I was kind of not going, I I was trying to tell myself not to worry or be surprised if I was like 20 people back at Lake Hantamine or at Le Shepou.
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.679
And instead I was like five to ten.
00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:42.879
It was kind of such a tight group between like three through ten that it didn't really matter where you were in that group because we were all basically together.
00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:53.279
But I was in that group, and that was like a pleasant surprise to know that I was still up in the top ten, and it felt like a decently conservative pace.
00:09:53.600 --> 00:10:29.279
Um, but I do think what you said about like running with those guys through the night, I think that was like maybe the highlight of the whole thing, or like the most fun part, was we got like probably seven of us going basically just this long train of people in the middle of the night with a full moon in like the Italian side of the Alps with like Mont Blanc lit up in the background, and then we're all just like rolling together, slowly catching up to like Chris Myers was up ahead, like reeled him in, passed him.
00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:34.240
We could see Batiste's headlamp up ahead, and it just felt like we were totally working together.
00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:44.080
And then oh, and I was with I was like sandwiched between Zach Miller and Drew Holman, so we had like this uh American muscle, like somebody somebody came up.
00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:45.519
American muscle.
00:10:45.679 --> 00:11:02.320
That's somebody came up behind us on an e-bike and like started, they go, Oh, America, and they like pull out their phone and start playing Born in the USA on like their speaker on the phone, and Zach's like, I actually can't relate to this.
00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:04.399
I was born in Kenya, so this doesn't apply to me.
00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:06.559
And then I learned some new stuff about Zach.
00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:09.440
But he's born in Kenya, you lived there for three years.
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:10.000
Wow.
00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:11.120
When he was born, yeah.
00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:17.200
I didn't know it, but yeah, that part was really fun.
00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:34.080
And that reminds me, there's so much that we don't see from a live stream standpoint in the middle of the night, because yeah, like uh typically Shippew to at least Cormayer, sometimes as far as Grand Colfray is totally in the dark, but so much happens in that in those 40-ish miles.
00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:37.919
I mean, actually, I I I want to ask Mike about like your thoughts on Caleb at Cormayer.
00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:43.440
Like, did you think what with what you saw at Cormayer, did you feel like there were this result was in the cards?
00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:55.440
I was that's what I was about to ask, actually, because I saw Caleb in the village, I think it's the village of Delone just before the uh Cormayer aid station, and what was that 3:30, 4 in the morning, something like that?
00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:04.000
Um, about 50 miles into the race, and Caleb indicated to me that he was starting to have maybe some stomach issues, I think, there.
00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:14.559
And I knew all I knew at that point was that you were running with this pack solidly in the top, like you were basically the thick of the top 10, top five.
00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:30.720
And uh that pack was together at the most recent split at the top of the descent into Cormair, and then I see you in the village, there was a little bit of separation, you were off sort of off the back of that pack, and it had spread out a little bit, maybe a minute or two, and then you indicated some stomach issues, maybe.
00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:38.879
So I got a little like made me a little anxious, but you seemed extremely lucid and you were still moving really well, and it like seemed like you were under control.
00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:40.159
So that was my impression.
00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:44.399
Um definitely made me a little anxious, but maybe tell us how you took care of that.
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:46.000
How'd you recover from that?
00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:49.039
Something about the downhill to core my air.
00:12:49.120 --> 00:13:01.279
I knew that would be hard, but it I went from like being right with that pack to kind of letting them all go in front because my stomach was being weird on the downhill, and then like coming out of that aid station, it was still pretty bad.
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.080
And so I kind of just took some time to regroup on my own.
00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:08.639
Like I wanted a little space to go my own pace, and then things started clicking again.
00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:15.039
For some reason, the uphill was like a little easier on my GI system than the downhill this round.
00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:27.360
So I was able to like do most of my good eating and drinking and getting the stomach under control while I was going uphill, and uh then things turned around going up bare tone and got a lot better.
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:29.679
Was that the biggest thing that you struggled with all race?
00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:33.360
Was that like your moment, or were there bits and pieces throughout the effort?
00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:36.320
That was that was a low patch for sure.
00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:46.480
Uh looking back at how I ran now, I see that um Champagne Lock to Valercine seems like I kind of went slower than I thought I was going.
00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:49.840
And like I lost some ground there.
00:13:50.000 --> 00:14:09.279
I didn't even realize really that I was letting up there, but I think I was just kind of on my own in like fifth place, but I don't know, sort of unmotived not unmotivated, but like feeling like the lead was getting away from me and along my off, and uh you're just so deep in it at that point.
00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.159
I think I had just kind of let off the gas a little bit.
00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:23.519
Um the next time I saw you after Cormaillere was basically the bottom, uh sort of the beginning stage of the Grand Culf Ray climb shortly after Arnoua.
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:31.200
And I mean I was psyched because then you know, the last I saw you was the interaction I just described in Cormaillera.
00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:42.639
And now all of a sudden here comes Caleb looking like he just started running and up a very steep part of the the Grand Colfray climb, moving really, really well.
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:55.039
Um there'd been some separation now, and then really that pack was had broken up, and you were sharing you were fourth and fifth place with the uh Antoine defending TDS champ, I think, and uh from or last year's champ.
00:14:55.279 --> 00:15:01.279
Um and yeah, at that point I I think I could tell like Caleb very well might win this race.
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:05.279
Um so were you were you just hunting the rest of the way?
00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:07.759
Uh pretty much.
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:11.519
Oh my my goal was definitely not to move back from that point on.
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:20.000
I think I was when you saw me, I was in fifth, and I actually didn't know exactly where I was, but I was basically like from here on out, I really shouldn't be letting people pass.
00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.879
I'm gonna stick with anything that any moves or anyone who tries to go.
00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:35.200
And I kind of gave myself until Champagne Locke to start like making a superconscious effort to move up, but I at least wanted to hold where I was.
00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.519
I know we talked about it earlier, but I want to come back to it.
00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:48.320
Well, actually, first I have a comment and then I I do want to just get your take on like that opportunity to compete with Baptiste through the finish line.
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:59.519
When I saw you between lot the the descent between La Florea and the finish, I actually I this is where I felt the most home court advantage for a French athlete.
00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.679
Like I saw a 40-second difference between you and Baptiste.
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.960
And I again, this is probably not under Baptiste's control.
00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.600
It in fact it definitely isn't, but he had this posse of people running with him the entire way.
00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:20.960
And I'm sure that they were saying in French just like encouragements, instilling a sense of urgency, and like there you are 40 seconds back, like fighting like hell to catch up with him.
00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:23.360
And I really wish it was truly one-on-one, but it wasn't.
00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:25.600
It was like it felt to me, it felt like 40 on one.
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:29.039
And I wanted, I wanted to join him, like, let's make a 40 on two.
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.759
But I didn't want to like, because we're American, I didn't, and it was like an obvious thing.
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:38.080
I didn't, I just like just held my position on the side of the road and like let you guys go past.
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:51.919
Um I mean, is that something that you just have to deal with at these races, like internationally, where you feel like to some extent your back's a little bit against the wall and like the deck to some extent is kind of stacked against you?
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:53.840
Maybe a little bit.
00:16:54.080 --> 00:17:06.720
Like those things are small and like maybe don't make a huge difference, but also maybe gave him you know 40 seconds worth of encouragement and urgency that could have made the difference on like passing into second.
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:14.880
And UTMB's got like all these rule, like there's this whole handbook and like list of penalties for these different rule infractions and stuff.
00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:21.759
And it feels like uh, like from my perspective, like you gotta take those all seriously and they're gonna be enforced.
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:28.960
And then you see it out on course and you're like, okay, but that rule only applies if you know the person, but how can you prove that you do or don't know the person?
00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:40.799
Like, there's so many random people just hopping in everywhere and uh doing like supporting or assisting, but like it's not really supporting or assisting, or it's not under the athlete's control.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:48.000
I don't know how any of this stuff is defined or enforced, but it is uh interesting.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.519
It it could make a difference, I think, in some cases.
00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:52.400
I was pissed.
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:54.000
I was screaming English into that crowd.
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:55.359
What's the what's the solution?
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:59.279
You can't tell, like, do you just tell supporters don't run with them?
00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:00.160
And then what if they do?
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:01.759
Like it's a public trail.
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:02.640
It's so tough.
00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:02.960
Yeah.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:04.000
It is so tough.
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:05.200
Um yeah.
00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:15.039
I just think in that moment where every single second mattered and you were clearly gaining and you had the sense of urgency and you were dictating, it was it was annoying that he again.
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:16.400
This is just showing my bias.
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:24.400
It was just annoying to see him have that advantage of people making sure that he appreciated the moment and that he got a sense of urgency.
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.599
And it sounded like he didn't get that urgency until you guys got on the road.
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:32.799
And like there was a little bit of a separation behind 'cause it was, I think I counted 36 seconds when I saw you about two miles out.
00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:33.839
Ended up being like four.
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:40.000
I do I do think that that's just home court advantage, though, and there's that's a thing in sport, and I think that's okay.
00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:49.440
Um and yeah, I mean I assume Baptiste knew how close Caleb was because of that crowd, probably, and it would have been very interesting to see.
00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:54.640
I mean, Caleb closed I think six minutes from Valercine to Flager, six minutes on the climb.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:59.440
Six on the climb, and that means another three and a half-ish on the descent.
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:04.559
Like you were closing like a monster and in a vacuum.
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:06.799
Yeah, I think Caleb passes Baptiste.
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:08.240
I mean, was that enjoyable too?
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.640
Did you enjoy that experience or was it stressful?
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:20.079
Uh it was stressful, but like it's fun to be fighting, it's fun to have something that forces you to like get the absolute most out of yourself.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:24.720
And without him there, I wouldn't have gone as fast and I wouldn't have gotten as much out of myself.
00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:25.680
So that was cool.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:32.559
But you're also just like top priority is not falling on a route, going down that trail and face planning.
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:43.599
So like you're kind of thinking about that, but also you're kind of just thinking about where your foot's gonna go for the next step, and you're locked in enough on that that you can't really think about anything else.
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:51.200
I wanted to ask about uh I think this is the second night you've run through, right?
00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:51.680
Ever.
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:52.799
Um GPT.
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:54.960
Well, I guess TGC starts at midnight.
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:58.400
Second full night, maybe that you've raced through.
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:00.160
Um many nights on rainier.
00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:12.960
Um and I was just thinking about GPT 100 in Australia being last, I think, November being kind of a test run for your UTMB experience.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:25.920
Um yeah, I'd so I'm curious to hear, you know, reflect on that and as sort of one of the early stages of your UTMB prep and um how that how you felt about running through the night here.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:28.480
I think it was good I had done it.
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:35.440
It was also good that I paced a bunch of friends, including you, at various hundred milers over the summer and like went through the night a bunch.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:40.640
I learned some stuff about lights and like I have a good light system now.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.200
I felt like I could see really well the whole time.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:49.039
Um I think we all got lucky with like the perfect weather conditions.
00:20:49.119 --> 00:21:02.720
Like GPT was pretty horrendous overnight, and so after dealing with being freezing cold and soaked all night, this was super pleasant, and like relative to that, it felt easy and chill, and I was just in a t-shirt all night and felt great.
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:07.440
So it was nice to not have to really worry about managing conditions too much.
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:14.720
So uh, and actually Leah, I don't know if you know this, but Mike had McDonald's last night for the first time in like 10 years.
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:15.839
So did Leah.
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:16.640
Oh, and so did Leah.
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:17.599
Okay, definitely did too.
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.160
That blows my mind.
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:20.319
That's someone that goes to McDonald's all the time, blew my mind.
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:34.000
But but we were at McDonald's talking, and I was telling Mike that one of my takeaways from this week is I genuinely have less of an idea of what makes a responsible build-up schedule for a race like this than ever before.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:44.240
Like you've seen people who tried to do the double that had some good days, some bad days, hard rock, UTM double, some good days, some bad days, some people that made this a priority race, good days like you, bad days like others.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.400
I have no idea what makes sense anymore.
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:59.519
Um, I know you had you've had a it's been a tumultuous season, but I mean, I guess for you, have you been like, was it a what is that, was it a satisfactory enough build to have like enough confidence to do this?
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:09.599
Uh yeah, I mean I didn't really have I didn't know where I was at in terms of like my fitness and with how training had been going.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:11.759
I was confident that I could have a good day.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.920
Like I was confident I'd be top ten if I was going for that.
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:28.559
But I wasn't really sure if I like had what it take to be competing for the win or exactly w how I should be thinking about my expectations for this.
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:40.240
And I think that I mean this is like really my only race of the year, pretty much, and I don't think I would purposely choose to do that in the future.
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:49.119
I that puts a lot of weight and pressure on one performance, but I do think it makes it easier to not come into it burned out.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:23:03.680
Dealing with injury leading into it is not the ideal way to get to that point, but like we uh we've talked about this before, but like it seems like the Europeans often will do a ski season and then they'll start really ramping up running in like April.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:10.000
And I, because of this injury, basically did a bike season and then started ramping up running in May.
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:19.359
And I don't I wouldn't purposely do that, but I do think there's something to just starting like really focused running a little bit later.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.839
So I'm sure things are sort of just starting to soak in.
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.960
Um, but you've had a little bit of time here now to reflect.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.799
Um I kind of had a f I just had a feeling this week.
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:35.519
I kind of had a feeling that you were gonna win UTMB.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.759
Um like it just felt like it was gonna go really well.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:52.400
And to sort of what you were just talking about, I I imagine it was a little bit difficult to have that con that level of confidence to compete for the win or even for the podium, um, given the season you've had.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:24:00.079
Um so I'm curious now as it's just starting to settle in, like, does this feel does this feel like a win?
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:05.359
Um you know, because you know, I I'm not trying to say I'm disappointed in you.
00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:08.559
I'm not mad, I'm I'm disappointed.
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:18.079
Um, but I think you know, I put you first on fantasy fantasy free trail because I really did believe that that was a possibility, um, if not a likelihood.
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:26.799
Um and so maybe I have like like a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the feeling that maybe you're feeling, because I'm sure you thought a win was possible too.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:42.960
Um I I mean I don't think I don't think that I could have I think you could replay that day for me 10 times and like maybe something would happen once where I somehow win.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:46.640
But I think that Ben had it this year.
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:49.119
Like he ran that so well.
00:24:49.200 --> 00:25:01.279
I don't think that running for with any different strategy or like if I could somehow identify every little mistake and add up every minute I lost, I don't think that would have made the difference of me being able to beat Ben.
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.640
I think he was fitter and he was the best this year.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:14.640
Um but I do think that I once you I got a bunch of different thoughts.
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:16.160
You're right, I am still processing all this.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:18.079
No, what comes to mind first?
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:23.839
Um the first thing that comes to mind is I would like to win this race some year.
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:44.720
Winning feels a lot different than getting third, and after you've I I was kind of mentioning this to Mike earlier, but like you experience these big wins at something like Western States, and then after that, you're kind of just looking for that same level of like thrill again, and anything less than a win feels like a loss to some extent.
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.599
Like it is, yeah, I know.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:26:15.359
And like third is awesome, and I'm stoked with it, and it's maybe as good as I could have hoped for on the day, but also it's like, oh man, I really don't have that same feeling that I did after a big win, and so it makes me want it, and like I see why I I remember hearing from and reading some stuff from Ben after last year's win, he got second or after last year's second place, he was kind of like, Man, I didn't do it.
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:15.920
I missed it.
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:17.200
I gotta go try again next year.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.440
And I'm and then this year he's like, I'm here to win.
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:20.640
That's the only point.
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.640
And like I get what he's saying.
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:25.039
It kind of feels maybe a little like that.
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:32.799
Assuming you're gonna come back next year or in the very near future, do you believe that all of the necessary changes come in training?
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:34.160
Is it a race execution thing?
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:36.160
Like, where where is the difference, do you think?
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:54.240
I think it would have been really helpful to not have a stress reaction earlier in the season, and that that would have let me get into the level of training that I wanted to be at for a couple extra months, and those extra months could have made the difference.
00:26:54.799 --> 00:27:01.519
Um that's probably the biggest thing is like I just gotta keep myself healthy all year.
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:08.160
Um, I also think kind of what we were talking about earlier with like the race schedule thing.
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:12.799
I think there's some benefit to doing at least one other decent race before.
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:26.079
And both taking the pressure off of like only having a single result, but also going through the whole like build, taper, race, recover cycle gives your body a break, but you're still in good running shape.
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:35.920
But it lets you it gives you like three weeks of pretty low volume with one race, and I think that that is good for running, like good for building.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:37.279
It's it's really interesting.
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.079
Uh, we had Ben Diemon in studio pre-race, unfortunately.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.240
The audio file got corrupted, we never got to publish it.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:56.160
But I do recall he did say in that pre-race interview that he attributes his confidence to this race and his intentions for this race to the fact that earlier this year he raced Trans Vulcania and he raced Marathon uh Mount Blanc Marathon 90k.
00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:02.240
And in both of those races, the overall execution of the race, both races felt Keek called it futuristic.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:11.599
Like they were futuristic, they were uh races that would like permanently change the way competitors think about pacing and where to make moves, etc.
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:23.279
And because he had those two experiences with like Christian Menoggio and Louis Saint at Marathon Du Mont Blanc and like David Sinclair and that whole crew at Transwalcania, it was just a natural thing for him to apply that to UTMB.
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:24.559
I think that's interesting.
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:25.839
I do too.
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:28.400
Um last question from me.
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.640
Maybe Mike has a few more.
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:42.799
I think that you, I'm not gonna say you pioneered it, but I think you have this really cool content format of time capsuling these journals that you then published the day before the race, like you did it at Transgrand Canaria.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:44.400
You did it again for UTMB.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:49.440
And in the one that you did for UTMB, you said that you've never wanted something more badly than a win at UTMB.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:50.400
How come?
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:56.720
Um That yeah, that was my perspective in December.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:06.400
And I like I think it still holds true, but I like UTMB and this race is kind of what got me into trail running in the first place.
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:14.799
Like I remember hearing about it and seeing a YouTube video and being like, whoa, how do I qualify to do or like what is the process to ever do that?
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:20.960
And like that's how I learned that there are ultra marathon races, and that's why I signed up for my first 50k.
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:25.440
I was like, I should start trying to qualify so that someday I can get out there and do that.
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:34.880
And then like climbing Mount Blanc, coming here for five years, doing our anniversary here every year, like it's just become a special place for me.
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:39.039
And I think it's probably the coolest.
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:45.039
If there's a cooler course that also has this level of competition, I would love to know about it.
00:29:45.200 --> 00:30:00.160
But because I think that this is like pretty unarguably like the most iconic mountain race there is, and so it like captures a lot of my attention and it uh to win this is like the absolute pinnacle of the sport.
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:02.960
So I would like to do that someday.
00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:14.400
In those sort of formative ultra running years, and like when you learned of UTMB and ran your first 50k, was there ever a glimmer of a vision in your mind of standing on the UTMB podium?
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.799
When you beat me by two minutes at the corner cane in 50k, you were like, okay, that's how I know.
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:39.119
Definitely zero vision of that ever, or of like being able to do this as a professional athlete or any of where we are now, or sitting with you guys talking about this in a single track studio before single track existed, with you as a professional photographer for the brand that I run for.
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:43.680
Like, yeah, no, at all none of that was anything I would have imagined.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:50.319
So it's pretty cool where we've come and I'm excited to see where the next few years take us.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:52.079
Let's end here.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:59.039
Um what do you suspect the next yeah, four months look like, end of the year?
00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:01.200
I don't know.
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:06.160
I wanna we've got a nice let me tell you about the next four days first.
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:19.279
We're we're hanging out doing an award ceremony and dinner tonight, and then we're going to a hotel on Lake Geneva, and I'm doing nothing for like three days, just sitting there.
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:27.039
And I'm hoping that during that time of just sitting there eating a bunch of good food, it just hits me of like, oh, this is what I should do next.
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:44.000
Because I need to figure out if I'm gonna go back to my real job next Monday, if I'm going to sign up for any other races, if I'm gonna do the race that I am signed up for that I don't think I'm gonna do, but I'm I'm on the start list right now for Grand Raid.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:55.599
And I was kind of just as a backup plan, like in case I ended up DNFing this at mile 20 and needed something else to hop in, but now I can't get my head around having to do another hard hundred miler this year.
00:31:55.680 --> 00:32:02.400
So I've got a lot of stuff to think about over the next few days, and then I'll know what the next four months look like a little better.
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.680
You said doing nothing at the hotel in Geneva for the next three days, but I'm pretty sure.
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:11.759
Don't you have like a like a golf lesson, maybe a couple things like that?
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:16.240
Doing nothing except for a golf lesson and a tennis lesson and a massage.
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:19.440
Good point.
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:20.319
Yeah, you're right.
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:21.200
That's not nothing.
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:22.240
It's not nothing.
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:26.160
So there's a there's a small chance you might do Grand Raid.
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:28.400
I'd say a very small chance.
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:33.519
And if not grand raid anything in November, December, would you close the season?
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:39.920
I I mean that's what you just asked, and my answer was basically I don't know.
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:41.359
So it's still I don't know.
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:48.079
But yeah, I I would potentially like I actually feel not like I could go for a run right now, but I feel okay after this.
00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:50.559
I feel a lot better than I did after Western.
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:58.000
And like if the legs are fine next week when I go for a jog, then I'd consider like that.
00:32:58.079 --> 00:32:58.720
That's okay.
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:01.359
Yeah, it doesn't hurt that bad.
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:04.400
Um I'd consider signing up for something else.
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:09.759
I don't quite have the airline status that I want yet for this year, so I need another big flight.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.640
So that might prompt me to sign up for one more big race.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:14.640
You gotta get that silver medallion.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:15.759
Yeah, silver.
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:19.599
Yeah, that's cute.
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.640
Um before Leah, any questions for Caleb?
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:31.200
Mike.
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:34.319
I can fill the the space while Leah thinks.
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:42.240
Um because maybe what I offer to this interview is just uh maybe just my relationship with you guys and with Caleb.
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:52.799
But uh I think it's kind of cool for maybe people to understand that Caleb is a kind of regular guy and he's getting golf lessons at a hotel and tennis lessons at a hotel this week.
00:33:52.960 --> 00:34:00.400
Um not that that's something regular guys do, but um maybe you'll be like a professional golfer 15 years from now, and this is the start.
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:02.160
This would be the very start.
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:13.519
Um but I I just want to comment on like I think it's really cool that going back to kind of how fast you just ran UTMB, but we said 759 GAP.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:22.639
Um I have the the ple the pleasure of doing a lot of, I don't know if we can call them your training runs, but spending some time with you on the trails and in the mountains.
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:29.599
And often it's, you know, 9, 10, 11 minute GAP on Strava.
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:40.320
Um and unless you believe that those runs are the difference between third place and first place, which I hope you don't believe because I don't.
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:48.320
Um I just think it's cool to kind of call out that you you have a lot of fun and you do a lot of like really chill stuff with your friends.
00:34:48.559 --> 00:35:01.679
Um and also, and it's just you know, not in spite of that, but um it's weird for me to say it, but like you are the one of the best ultra mountain runners in the world, um, and you still do super chill stuff like that.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.039
So I don't that's maybe it's just a comment unless you have anything to say about it.
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:06.880
In spite of running with you.
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:08.960
It's yeah.
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:10.719
Uh I don't know.
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:21.440
I think like you don't have to run fast at all the time or at all, really, to be good at just running medium pace in the mountains for 20 hours.
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:34.960
Uh something you said after Western States was like you really didn't want to be good at Western States, and you wanted to be good and you wanted to be associated more with like races that inspire you, like UTMB.
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:40.639
Do you feel like your performance at UTMB has solidified more of that feeling in your mind?
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:48.800
Yeah, it's the first mountain race that I've done where I've been like, all right, that's proof to me that I can be good at mountain races too.
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:56.639
And like, yeah, I did GPT, that was solid, but it feels really good to know, okay, I don't need to be stuck in like just the runnable stuff.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:36:03.280
I can also compete for top finishes at like the stuff that I really want to be good at.
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:15.280
Did you find like any areas of for improvement or weaknesses out there that like when you come back next year, which you will do, like that you're like, if I do this, then X?
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:25.920
Yeah, some like race day things, like little gear mistakes or little nutrition issues, like some small stuff like that.
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:36.960
But probably the biggest thing is like I just feel like I need more like a longer runway on training, and I'd probably tweak my training a little bit.
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:58.559
And um I noticed I don't know, I don't know if um if this is a good I haven't made sense of this yet, but once I got out to France like at the beginning of the month, all of my runs started going so much better, and I was running faster and like things felt easier and I was more excited about it.
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:05.119
And and in the Wasatch, everything just felt like such a hard, tough, slow grind.
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:17.119
And I don't know if that's just because of the altitude or like the trails in the Wasatch are tougher or something, but maybe spending more time out here and getting more of that like this is all clicking feeling would be helpful.
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:23.280
So I'd consider doing like a longer, like a full summer or a full season out here leading up next year.
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:26.320
How many fish did you catch in this training block?
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:34.400
Oh uh not as many as I'd like to, but probably I'd guess I'd guess more than 10, but less than 20.
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:35.519
Nice.
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:36.000
Yeah.
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:36.800
Congrats.
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:37.760
Thank you.
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:39.519
One of my best days fishing.
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:42.079
I saw you that morning running down from the lake.
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:48.239
Does the French cuisine reignite the motivation to cook a Michelin star meal?
00:37:48.639 --> 00:38:04.239
Oh, for context, um I was I briefly had a goal this year to try and make one fancy meal for like my friends or family uh per month this year to try and become a better chef.
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:06.559
And I fizzled out after about two months.
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:10.000
But yes, I have been loving the food out here.
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:12.239
We've got a nice dinner on deck tonight.
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:20.800
We've got a lot of good meals on deck the next three days, and maybe I'll steal some recipes and try and recreate them for you guys.
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:22.960
Last comment from me before we go.
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.880
I just think, and I've seen it before, but to see it again at UTV was cool.
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:42.719
It's amazing how united your family is around your races and you know, crew chief Morgan, parents, Lance and Julie, uh Meg, Jared, Kate, Minty, Brett Kirby, like it was a rock star team out there.
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:46.480
I mean I'm Fletcher and Haley, I'm rock star, rock star team.
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:48.000
That was really cool to see them all in action.
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:49.360
Yeah, it was awesome.
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.880
It was so cool to have the whole gang out there doing it together.
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:56.159
Everybody had like their role, and it was really cool.
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:07.039
That was the first time where we've had Morgan like strategically picked different people from the crew to be the man or the person in the tent at each different spot where I could have crew.
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:16.880
And uh each one played their role perfectly and like gave me the energy and the advice that I needed to hear in that moment, and it all that part was awesome.
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:18.400
I loved having the crew out there.
