Wrongfully Convicted, Sustained by God: Susan Mellen’s “Freedom Shoes” Testimony | STF Podcast Ep. 31

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In 1997, a mother of three was wrongfully convicted of murder and sentenced to life without parole.
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One day, God told her to write freedom on the soles of her shoes.
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That woman was Susan Meled
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I cried and got on my knees and I said, it's gonna make me cry,"God, I surrender life without the pos- possibility of parole, and if I never go home, I'm gonna still serve you with all my heart.
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I will, I promise I will serve you with all my heart, and I'll touch lives of these women and what you want me to do.
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Father God, just show me and just be with me and let me feel your presence like never before and let me glorify you no matter what, that I promise I will serve you all the days of my life."
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Welcome back to Singing Through Fire.
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I'm your host, Laura Silverman, and today we're continuing our Faith in the Furnace series, where we interview Christian warriors with powerful testimonies of God's sustaining grace in modern-day lions' dens.
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Today, I am incredibly humbled to interview someone so, so special.
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She has graciously agreed to allow us to enter her story.
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I cannot even begin to describe the weight of her story, dear friends.
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This is one of those testimonies where it's best for her to just take the mic and let the Holy Spirit explain.
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But I will give this introduction, which will send a chill through your bones.
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In 1997, a mother of three was wrongfully convicted of murder and sentenced to life without parole.
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One day, God told her to write freedom on the soles of her shoes.
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That woman was Susan Mellon.
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Without further ado, we're ready to sing through the fire.
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This is Singing Through Fire, where we worship when it hurts, discuss hot takes from the furnace of affliction, and explore a biblical theology of suffering with a side of sass and sarcasm.
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From lamentations to laughter, this podcast is for anyone desperate for hope who's ever asked,"Why, Lord, why?" I've lost my health, career, and husband, so we're in this fight for faith together.
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Susie, it is with great honor that I welcome you to my humble podcast.
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Hmm.
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Thank you.
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I'm so blessed to be here and feel so honored that you chose, you know, my story, and I really believe it's a love story for God's glory.
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Oh, oh my gosh.
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I, you guys, I I, I just, I'm speechless when I'm around this woman- because the story is just...
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Okay, we, we've gotta jump into it.
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So Susie, can you tell us your story in a nutshell, just in couple sentences so people have an overview before- Well- we launch into questions?
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It's so hard to do a nutshell, but just to share the beginning of the story was when I was, you know, praying to God and asking him for a vacation.
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And, um, and then two weeks later, uh, me and my daughter are at McDonald's, and we were in the parking lot, and undercover cops threw me to the ground, and my daughter was hysterical and crying.
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And that was the beginning of my nightmare.
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And, and so the rest of the story, I, I actually spent 17 years in prison.
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That's just a little nutshell.
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Started at McDonald's, we didn't have a Happy Meal, and then 17 years in prison.
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So it was pretty devastating.
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And my nine-year-old daughter was, um, very...
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I mean, it tore her, her heart, and her life was, was never the same after that.
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Oh my gosh.
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So-
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Nor mine.
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Mm-hmm.
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So when you first heard those words,"You are being arrested for the murder of Rick Daly," I mean, what went through your mind at that point?
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Was that the same day, the McDonald's visit?
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Yes.
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It was when they grabbed me and put me on the ground and cuffed me, and then as they pulled me up off the ground, they said I was being arrested for first-degree murder.
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And, um, it was Rick Daly, my ex-boyfriend.
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And I was in shock'cause I'm thinking,"How could this happen?" I was, um, I was totally, um, devastated, and, and I probably, it was probably the worst nightmare, the worst day of my l- wife and then to see my daughter cry and get hysterical because her mom was, you know, put in the backseat with her with cuffs on.
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My arms were in the back with the, you know, with the cuffs on, and she just kept saying,"Mom, what is going on?" I mean, she was terrified too.
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Oh
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my gosh.
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I mean, I cannot even imagine.
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I mean, and as the audience has been given an overview, this eventually led to a wrongful conviction, which is why you served a prison term for 17 years for a murder you did not commit.
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It shocks the conscience when I'm even saying this.
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So at that moment in time, what was going through your mind?
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Did you believe that the truth would be enough to protect you, or what was going on through your mind, you know, at that initial arrest and the month thereafter?
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I always believed till the last minute that they gave me, you know, the judge sentenced me.
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But I believed that no matter what, even in my, with the trial and the juries, I thought,"They're gonna know the truth." I mean, the truth always prevails and, and the- Yeah truth's gonna set me free.
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So that was, um, a shock to know that they didn't get the truth.
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They got lies, and the truth never really prevailed the way it should have if...
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My lawyer was a horrible lawyer.
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He was a, a divorce lawyer.
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He divorced me of my life.
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Oh.
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Oh my gosh, that is so power- he divorced me of my life.
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Mm-hmm.
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I...
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Can you take us back to that moment in the interrogation room when everything changed?
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This one is probably the hardest to go back to this because it's so painful because, um- I think back on that day, all I remember is, is having my hands up like this, you know, praying to God,"God, please help me." And I kept telling her I'm, that I was innocent, that I would never hurt anybody, that I would never, um, you know, have anything to do with a murder.
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I mean, they, they have the clip where people could actually play it, you know, and they could watch it.
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But she kept saying,"You were there.
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I know you were there." And I kept...
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I didn't even argue with her.
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I was just, like, saying,"No, no, I'm innocent." And she would never listen to me.
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She didn't even care that I said I was innocent.
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It was like,"You know you were there.
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You know you're lying to me, and you better tell me the truth." I was so devastated and so shocked.
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I mean, I probably went into a, um, I can't even explain what...
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And then I was trying to call my lawyer to see if he'd help me, and he was in a trial.
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He couldn't help me.
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She a- you know, told me I could call a lawyer.
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So it was like, so then I still talked to her'cause I had nothing to hide, and I just kept telling her,"I'm so innocent.
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I didn't even know about the murder till a week, week and a half later." And everything I said, she did not care.
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She was not caring, and she was mean.
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So in the interest of time, just so the audience knows, we're going to skip over- Yeah a lot of the trial and how the wrongful conviction ultimately was secured because this podcast is focusing on the faith aspects.
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So Susie, right after you were convicted- What was your sta- what was the status of your faith in Christ at this point in time?
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So you have a wrongful conviction.
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Mm-hmm.
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Where is your faith in God at this point?
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At that time, I didn't have a relationship.
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I kinda put God on the back burner.
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I was saved as a teenager, but, um, I was living my life, you know, I can kinda say, like, in the fast lane or for the enemy.
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I wasn't living, I wasn't living a godly life.
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And then when I look back on it all and I think, you know, when I cried out to God and was asking him for a vacation, you know, and praying to him, it was like I felt like I was rescued from the lifestyle I was living in.
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So when you, you know, when you're pretty much asking- Mm God for a vacation, and when I w- went to the county jail, I'm like,"God, this is not the vacation I asked for." Yeah.
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I was devastated, you know?
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And then, and then, um, it was like I knew my lifestyle wasn't living for the Lord, and so I was so desperate and so...
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I mean, I was looking at the death sentence, so that can scare you enough to say,"You know what, God?
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I need you." And I, all I could do was look up.
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I'm in a prison cell, and I had no hope, and they were telling me I'm looking at the death sentence, so I'm terrified.
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I am so desperate, and I- Yeah I knew the only one I could turn to was God.
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So that was when God became so real to me, and he was everything I needed, everything that I truly believed, that he was gonna be there for me.
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And, and I thought I, he was still gonna set me free'cause he's gonna, you know, the truth would prevail.
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But it didn't happen the way I wanted it to, but eventually it did, 17 years later.
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But, but I really believe, um, God really wanted my attention, and he sure got it.
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Wow.
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So sounds like you were raised in the faith, but then your faith became real to you after- Yeah your prison sentence started.
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Yeah.
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Exactly, yes.
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So tell us about your faith at the start of the prison sentence.
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So you're, you're demoralized because you just got wrongfully convicted of murder, and you're thrown in prison, and so are you thinking,"Oh, the Lord will deliver me.
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This is wrong." You have great confidence, or were you having intense trouble trusting the Lord because he allowed the conviction?
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Well, I, I think I was telling God every year, I'd say,"I'm gonna go home this year," but the first five years, I, I'm gonna, I mean, I'm gonna tell you the truth.
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I'm gonna tell you- That was probably the first five years were the hardest five years,'cause I was in denial.
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I was so depressed because I couldn't believe it happened to me.
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I couldn't believe that, that, that a judge told me 25 to life, but then when six months later I'm in prison and my mom passed away and I went to see the counselor, and the counselor told me, um, I couldn't go to my mom's funeral.
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So I was devastated, and that was, um, the day that the counselor told me,"Susie, you, you have life without the possibility of parole." And I go,"What does that mean?" He goes,"You'll never leave this prison.
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You're gonna go home in a pine box." And I go,"No, the judge told me 25 to, to life." And he says,"No, Mellen, you have t- life without the possibility of parole." So those first five years I was in my cell twice a day.
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They had to count me at 12- at 11 o'clock, from 12:00 I was locked in my room.
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So I was like a real criminal because when you have life without you are- you're given a, um- Like you're more, like they have to keep an eye on you.
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They have to escort you everywhere.
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So every night after dinner, I didn't get to go out with other women for the first five years.
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I didn't get to, you know, associate and go out to the yard and go out in the day room and, you know, and, and mingle with other women.
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I had to go in my room, get locked in my room that night after dinner, and then I didn't get out till the next, you know, the next morning.
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So I wasn't treated the same.
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I was really treated like a criminal, and I think that was where I was so devastated and so depressed for the first five years.
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But then God, little by little, you know, and then when they let me get off of closed A and they told me that, you know, now I can go places and I didn't have to be escorted to the doctors and, you know, they were, um, setting me free from that.
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So that was when my freedom started happening.
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And little by little I'm thinking,"Oh, now I'm free.
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Now I can go to the yard at night.
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I can, you know, do things with the other women.
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I don't have to be escorted and, you know, and look like this criminal." One time I had to go to the hospital, um, for something.
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I forget now, but it wasn't anything major.
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But they handcuffed me and put shackles on me and took me to the hospital, and this man was in the hospital bed, and he goes, he goes,"Why is that lady shuffled and, and, and had, you know, handcuffs on?
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She doesn't look like she could hurt anybody." And then the cop just said,"Well, don't worry about what, you know, what I have her here for." But I mean, they treated me like a real criminal, and it was pretty sad.
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Wow.
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I mean, how did you deal with that initial despair emotionally and spiritually?
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First five years you're crying out to the Lord.
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Did you feel His presence?
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I think the, as each year went by, and then when I got a TV, after a couple years I got a TV, so I was able to watch TV.
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So everybody's watching all kinds of different programs.
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I'm watching church.
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All I could do is watch TBN or Daystar because I needed to hear the word of God.
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I needed something more, you know, more powerful and, and, and I needed to know that God was with me.
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So I think hearing the word of God and watching, um, you know, my TV and watching church and hearing the word, I mean, that was when I started getting, uh, transformed and I started to see that He's redeeming me.
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He's transforming me to be the woman of God that He created me to be.
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So I really just stepped out and I, I was having faith.
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Every year I'd say,"Ooh, I'm gonna go home this year, huh, God?" I mean, I was telling God I was gonna go home.
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And then I have a story I could share later at the end.
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But it's so amazing when God really, you know, gets your attention.
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I was paying attention, that's all I know.
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You know?
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And- Yeah.
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Oh my gosh, I cannot even imagine.
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Did you feel like you could be honest with God at the start of it all in terms of like,"Lord, why didn't you protect me?
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Why didn't you allow- Mm-hmm the truth to prevail?"
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Yeah, I think I kept saying,"Why God?
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Why me?
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You know I'm innocent." And then when, after the five years, I think I quit asking God why, because sometimes when you keep asking God why, you're not truly trusting Him.
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So I would tell God, you know,"I trust you." And then one day He would s- you know, like s- clear as day, He said,"Well, if you really trust me, are you resting in me?" And so that was a breakthrough,'cause I thought, yeah, I tell Him I, that I trust Him every day, but then am I really resting in Him?
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So it was like, if I keep saying- Mm you know,"God, I trust you," but until I started resting in Him and really trusting Him in a different way where I was saying,"Okay, God, I'm gonna just rest in you.
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I'm gonna be still and know that you're God," and then things started feeling like, wow, this is...
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You know, it was such a great feeling to know His presence, to know, you know, that He really was there with me.
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And He really did tell me on the way to the bus ride to get sentenced, He painted a rainbow in the sky for me, and He told me He was gonna be with me, and n- and He would never leave me or forsake me, and that gave me comfort, and I really believe that was the beginning of peace.
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Even though they sentenced me, but I'm telling you, that rainbow is telling me He promised to take me through.
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He said,"I will take you through, and I'll be with you." And I thought,"Oh, thank you, Lord." And that was a breakthrough.
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Sorry, this was the bus ride on your way to the prison at the very beginning?
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Or- This was the bus ride getting sentenced to the courthouse, my last day at the courthouse when they- Oh sentenced me to, um-
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Oh
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life without.
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And you saw a rainbow?
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Yeah, He painted a rainbow- Oh in the sky.
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But see, He even deafened my ears that day, because I only heard the judge say,"25 to life." So see, if they, if I would've heard- Oh life without, I might have passed out and had a heart attack.
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But so that day with the rainbow, and He comforted me and gave me peace.
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He did not allow the, um, the judge, when he said, you know,"Life without the possibility of parole,"'cause I did not know I had that.
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I thought the judge said,"25 to life." That's how God allowed me to hear that, because that's, He knew I wasn't gonna do life without the possibility of parole.
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That's how great our God is.
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He, He's amazing.
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Wow, so He supernaturally shielded your ears so that you wouldn't hear life without parole- Mm because the shock of it would've been too much.
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It
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would've.
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And because the Lord knew you would get out.
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That's, that's
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amazing.
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I mean, you, you can't make it up.
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You know?
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It's like, and I look back on all that and I say,"God, you knew I wasn't gonna do it.
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You didn't even let me hear the judge say that." I mean, that right there, I mean, God is so powerful and so amazing.
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Mm-hmm.
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And it is supernatural, like you said, L- Laura.
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It's supernatural.
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I mean, Susie, the courtroom scenes in your book remind me so much of Jesus' hoax trial and the injustice of His own, you know, sentence and death.
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How did your understanding of God's justice You know, wrestle with your lived experience of injustice and did it comfort you in some sense that you were sharing in Christ's suffering and identifying with him?
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I mean, maybe that took, you know, some years down the road to get there.
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Mm-hmm.
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But do you know what I'm saying?
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Did you ever get to a place where you were like,"Lord, I'm sharing in your suffering.
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I understand now what you went through." Because it kind of is a, it's a very similar situation.
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Well, what I told the judge that day, he asked me,"What do you have to say for yourself, Susie?" So this will really, um, bless you because I said,"Well, I know that one day God's gonna bring the truth out, and I'll be back here in the courtroom," or something like.
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Oh.
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In other words, I was saying that I didn't believe, you know, that God would let me stay, you know, the rest of my life in prison.
00:16:37.592 --> 00:16:40.393
But I really did say,"God will bring the truth out, and I'll...
00:16:40.623 --> 00:16:44.033
And that He will bring the truth out, and I, and I'll walk and be out of...
00:16:44.072 --> 00:16:46.592
You know, I'm gonna be set free again one day.
00:16:46.732 --> 00:16:54.493
Amen." I mean, I did believe that, and I did really believe that, that God didn't make me suffer or make me go through that.
00:16:54.493 --> 00:16:58.602
It was the enemy, and that what was meant for evil, God would make good come out of it.
00:16:58.602 --> 00:17:00.153
And I never got mad at God.
00:17:00.153 --> 00:17:02.072
I never, I never been a angry person.
00:17:02.322 --> 00:17:10.472
I just said,"Okay, God, what is it that you want me to learn in this situation, and what do you want to be for me?" So it was kind of like I, I never...
00:17:10.663 --> 00:17:17.553
I, I mean, and people say,"Why wouldn't you be mad at God?" And I go,"Well,'cause God didn't do it." I mean, why would I be mad at Him?
00:17:17.873 --> 00:17:20.232
But I think I always had the love of a father.
00:17:20.272 --> 00:17:26.393
My dad loved me, and then I knew God loved me, so why would I even think that He would do something cruel to me, right?
00:17:26.393 --> 00:17:28.482
So I, I never felt like...
00:17:28.742 --> 00:17:30.413
I just knew it was the enemy.
00:17:30.413 --> 00:17:31.173
I didn't give...
00:17:31.432 --> 00:17:32.542
I gave the enemy.
00:17:32.542 --> 00:17:37.863
I knew it was all him, that it was not God that, um, was gonna make me suffer like that.
00:17:37.863 --> 00:17:40.133
God was gonna make something great come out of it all.
00:17:40.252 --> 00:17:40.643
Mm.
00:17:41.452 --> 00:17:51.982
And so Psalm 34 says,"The Lord is near to the broken-hearted." And you've given, like, one example, like with the rainbow, where God gave you this comforting promise on your, you know, way to the sentencing.
00:17:51.982 --> 00:17:58.782
But- How did God give you his intimate presence in other surprising ways as the years dragged on?
00:17:59.083 --> 00:17:59.532
Yeah.
00:17:59.833 --> 00:18:10.173
I mean, um, I think, um, there are so many times where, um, God just, um, became so real to me and that I just really believe His presence was so strong.
00:18:10.173 --> 00:18:16.682
I mean, when I, when I started, you know, reading the word of God and, and the word of God came alive and it became powerful.
00:18:16.682 --> 00:18:29.613
And when I started speaking positive instead of negative, like I had life without the possibility of parole, and I said,"No, God," He, He would actually, I felt His presence and the Spirit say,"No, you have life with a purpose now." And it was His purpose.
00:18:29.913 --> 00:18:43.432
And then when I had life without the possibility of parole, I could have made it my enemy, and then God said,"No, make it your friend, because you met your best friend, Jesus." So everything that the enemy brought to me, I was able to turn it into something positive.
00:18:43.432 --> 00:18:48.133
And I just love that about God, and God wants us to live that kind of life, you know?
00:18:48.192 --> 00:18:50.383
So are you saying, so you get to prison.
00:18:50.393 --> 00:18:54.272
Had you read God's word, or had you been in God's word before you were-
00:18:54.323 --> 00:18:55.063
No.
00:18:55.192 --> 00:18:55.772
Never.
00:18:55.782 --> 00:18:55.803
Wow.
00:18:55.833 --> 00:18:57.413
I didn't even read the Bible.
00:18:58.012 --> 00:18:59.093
Nothing like that.
00:18:59.093 --> 00:19:04.603
I mean, I could tell you embarrassing stories on that one where I, I wanted to...
00:19:04.653 --> 00:19:10.462
Um, somebody gave me a Bible before I got arrested, probably a month before, and I, and I thought,"Well, I don't need this Bible.
00:19:10.462 --> 00:19:30.153
Maybe I should throw it away." But something reminded me of my mom having a big white Bible on her coffee table, and I said,"I could never throw this away." And then I said,"Let me open it and see, you know, if God will say something to me." And I opened it to James, um, James 1, and it says that, um,"You will have joy in the fire," something like that.
00:19:30.163 --> 00:19:33.593
That there is joy the, in, in the fiery trial.
00:19:33.603 --> 00:19:35.482
There is joy in the fiery trial.
00:19:35.482 --> 00:19:40.202
And it kind of reminds me of you, how you sing and, you know, that you, um, you sing in the fire.
00:19:40.212 --> 00:19:44.292
So this was, this was a couple weeks, you know, or a month before I got arrested.
00:19:44.553 --> 00:19:52.356
I'm reading this scripture, and then it was, you know, years- later, I really did have joy in my, you know, in my trial.
00:19:52.356 --> 00:19:54.307
In that prison, I had so much joy.
00:19:54.517 --> 00:19:56.126
People would say,"Why are you so happy?
00:19:56.227 --> 00:19:57.297
When are you going home?
00:19:57.297 --> 00:20:00.007
Are you going home?" The cops said I was on S-time.
00:20:00.027 --> 00:20:02.576
S-time- Mm means you're gonna go home in two weeks.
00:20:02.636 --> 00:20:04.977
I go, I wouldn't even tell people I had life without.
00:20:04.977 --> 00:20:12.317
I just said,"When God wants me to go home, I'm going home." And then when people did find out or know it was life without, they go,"This woman's crazy.
00:20:12.317 --> 00:20:17.297
She doesn't even know that she's spending the rest of her life in prison." And I never would believe that.
00:20:17.317 --> 00:20:18.866
I never believed it.
00:20:18.936 --> 00:20:23.376
I mean, I was totally believing that God had a purpose for everything.
00:20:23.416 --> 00:20:23.926
I was...
00:20:24.156 --> 00:20:30.136
You know, and I was called to do whatever it is that He wanted me to do, that I had life with a purpose, and it was His purpose.
00:20:30.156 --> 00:20:31.787
And I was serious about...
00:20:31.866 --> 00:20:43.666
You know, I got so serious towards, you know, each year I think I got more and more into what God was doing in my life and touching so many women's lives, you know, with God, and His presence, and His word.
00:20:43.676 --> 00:20:44.946
It was powerful.
00:20:44.997 --> 00:20:50.086
So can you explain how you became sort of more solid in your faith?
00:20:50.086 --> 00:20:51.586
Like, so you get in prison.
00:20:51.767 --> 00:20:56.936
When did you start reading a Bible in prison, and who kind of grew you up in the faith there?
00:20:56.997 --> 00:21:00.646
Like, was it a Bible, or can you explain for the audience, like Bible study- I was- or whatever?
00:21:00.656 --> 00:21:01.007
Yeah.
00:21:01.007 --> 00:21:09.717
I think it was totally, um, reading the Bible and then watching, when I got my TV after a couple years, watching, um, Daystar or, um, TBN.
00:21:09.747 --> 00:21:13.856
And then I did, um, I don't know if you guys ever heard of Celebrate Recovery.
00:21:13.856 --> 00:21:17.076
I did that for five years, so that was with Rick Warren or...
00:21:17.086 --> 00:21:18.307
And, and, and it's...
00:21:18.396 --> 00:21:25.557
You know, he really, that Bible study was really powerful'cause it, you realize it's not about you, that it's about Jesus.
00:21:25.626 --> 00:21:28.757
It's, you know, and turning your situation around for His glory.
00:21:28.757 --> 00:21:35.267
But also, I did Beth Moore Bible studies, and I did, um, about five different Bible studies with her.
00:21:35.576 --> 00:21:44.136
I mean, and then I saw women get transformed, and, and I saw the, even the expressions on their face change when they started doing the Bible studies with me.
00:21:44.416 --> 00:21:47.446
You know, and these were people that had life without, or they were there for murder.
00:21:47.676 --> 00:21:52.467
But you could see after they started taking them, they'd go,"Gosh, Susie, thank you so much.
00:21:52.467 --> 00:21:54.297
This..." I mean, this Bible study is...
00:21:54.626 --> 00:21:57.876
I mean, it was life-changing for them, and I got to see the transformation.
00:21:57.876 --> 00:21:59.477
I got to see their, their face.
00:21:59.747 --> 00:22:02.067
Didn't even look, they didn't even look like a murderer anymore.
00:22:02.076 --> 00:22:09.457
They looked like a beautiful woman that got set free because they started reading God's word and, and believing what God said about them.
00:22:09.527 --> 00:22:15.176
So just for people in the audience who don't know, you're saying that the prison, you know, hosted...
00:22:15.217 --> 00:22:20.477
There was, like, a prison ministry where you guys had Bible studies which women were allowed to attend?
00:22:21.007 --> 00:22:21.436
And- Um,
00:22:21.747 --> 00:22:22.287
mm-hmm.
00:22:22.297 --> 00:22:22.317
Yeah.
00:22:22.326 --> 00:22:24.336
Yeah, they even donated TVs.
00:22:24.777 --> 00:22:35.830
Um, one Bible study, um, um, donated TVs and DVDs for, um, um, for pa- I mean for, um, oh- Beth Moore.
00:22:35.990 --> 00:22:39.570
So, I mean, like, they even brought the TV so we could play her DVDs.
00:22:39.641 --> 00:22:40.740
I mean, it's so amazing.
00:22:40.740 --> 00:22:44.631
There's so many ministries out there that bless the prisoners, you know?
00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:44.840
Wow.
00:22:45.070 --> 00:22:47.431
Like, um, Penny, um, Childs, she's...
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:51.790
Her church blessed our, um, prison with the women for, like, for years.
00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:56.101
We did Bible studies because they donated the TVs and the DVDs.
00:22:56.101 --> 00:23:02.010
I mean, it's so amazing what people do for the prisoners, because we are broken and we do need people to give us hope.
00:23:02.351 --> 00:23:07.060
And it's beautiful when people come in and preach to us and, and share the Word of God.
00:23:07.070 --> 00:23:07.090
Wow.
00:23:07.090 --> 00:23:12.790
And then, you know, I mean, so many things just that they do that is such a blessing.
00:23:12.861 --> 00:23:13.431
Wow.
00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:19.045
I mean, tell us This is just mind-blowing because I feel like the church doesn't really...
00:23:19.265 --> 00:23:31.865
I mean, this is a whole other discussion we could have another time, but it's like the Lord being near to the broken-hearted, and in- including people who have committed these heinous crimes, and yet the Lord is ministering to them as well.
00:23:31.875 --> 00:23:31.964
Mm-hmm.
00:23:31.964 --> 00:23:37.615
I mean, it's like Jesus talking to the thief on the cross, and I mean, it's like Jesus came for sinners.
00:23:37.765 --> 00:23:37.934
Mm-hmm.
00:23:37.934 --> 00:23:38.214
You know?
00:23:38.214 --> 00:23:40.954
And it's almost, like, radical in the mainstream church to...
00:23:40.954 --> 00:23:47.045
I don't, I don't know- Yeah how many resources are put into these prison ministries, but you basically lived it.
00:23:47.115 --> 00:23:51.384
I mean, you basically- Right like every church should be, should have a prison ministry.
00:23:51.384 --> 00:23:53.234
Like, these are the lost and the broken.
00:23:53.234 --> 00:23:53.434
Right.
00:23:53.434 --> 00:23:54.075
Right?
00:23:54.234 --> 00:23:54.815
Right.
00:23:55.134 --> 00:24:01.424
I mean, these women were so broken, and, and they didn't even know how to love themself or even forgive themselves.
00:24:01.434 --> 00:24:03.144
So God was able to use me.
00:24:03.144 --> 00:24:08.095
He trusted me in that trial so I could speak to the women that were broken.
00:24:08.454 --> 00:24:17.345
And, and really, He, He wants to set the captives free in prison, and that's the key, that it doesn't matter- Mm you know, what your address is.
00:24:17.365 --> 00:24:19.025
You can be free in Jesus.
00:24:19.055 --> 00:24:20.464
It's all about your heart.
00:24:20.474 --> 00:24:26.265
Your heart is what really matters to God, and God is in your heart in the, in the Holy Spirit.
00:24:26.275 --> 00:24:28.505
And that w- that was really my...
00:24:28.714 --> 00:24:42.065
I was in my boot camp with the Holy Spirit, I felt like, and I was able to teach women how to forgive themself, how to love themself, and that was one of the things that I loved doing with women because they really were so hard on themselves.
00:24:42.065 --> 00:24:49.845
They had no worth- Mm and it was, I mean, it would just break my heart that they didn't even know what a beautiful woman they were and how much God loved them.
00:24:49.875 --> 00:24:52.194
But I was able to, um, to help women.
00:24:52.194 --> 00:24:55.964
I'd give them love letters from God, but they would be princess letters.
00:24:56.275 --> 00:25:05.375
And then at the end of the letter, you know, He'd tell them how much He loved them, but He says,"This is your King in heaven." And, you know, and He would tell them that He loved them and He forgave them.
00:25:05.414 --> 00:25:09.345
But these were letters I'd give them, and they would break down and cry and bawl.
00:25:09.575 --> 00:25:14.404
They didn't even know that God could love them and forgive them, and I said,"Yes, He can." Mm.
00:25:14.414 --> 00:25:21.345
And so I, I just love what God did in the prison with me, you know, because I think it was...
00:25:21.434 --> 00:25:28.214
It all started when I trusted God and, and because I was so in love with God, and I wasn't gonna let the situation take me down.
00:25:28.285 --> 00:25:28.724
Wow.
00:25:28.884 --> 00:25:29.704
It's amazing.
00:25:29.724 --> 00:25:35.855
I mean, can you tell us about the intimate spiritual moment when the Lord told you to write something on your shoes?
00:25:36.005 --> 00:25:43.144
So, so this woman, um, that used to come visit me every month, she was so faithful, my friend Sam.
00:25:43.164 --> 00:25:44.585
I just love her dearly.
00:25:44.815 --> 00:25:48.134
She picked my name at a church,'cause I never got visitors.
00:25:48.144 --> 00:25:48.154
Mm.
00:25:48.164 --> 00:25:50.944
I only got to see my children a few times.
00:25:51.224 --> 00:25:53.724
Anyways, so it was heartbreaking, but she would come.
00:25:53.984 --> 00:26:03.424
She picked my name at a church, and so, um, she was able to come visit me every month for, for years, like seven years almost, and then she started sending me boxes.
00:26:03.424 --> 00:26:12.345
'Cause if your family doesn't send you a box every three months, you, you really don't have that much, and, you know, you, you don't even have enough hygiene to last you what the prison gives you.
00:26:13.305 --> 00:26:22.330
But anyway, she, um- Sent me a box, um, happened to be probably about five years before I got out, and she got me some brand-new white tennis shoes.
00:26:22.340 --> 00:26:27.941
So I, I go to the R&R to get my, my box from her, and I got brand-new white tennis shoes.
00:26:27.941 --> 00:26:39.451
So I get to my bed in my cell, and then I'm sitting on my bed and I'm taking everything out of the box, and I'm so excited because, you know, I'm getting a box and you get food, hygienes, and then these beautiful white shoes.
00:26:39.750 --> 00:26:40.520
And she says...
00:26:41.121 --> 00:27:09.851
So as clear as day, the Lord says,"Get your black marker out." And then I go,"My black marker?" And then he says,"Yeah, the permanent one." I go,"The permanent one?" And then he's like, he's like,"I want you to write on your white shoes." And I go,"A black permanent marker on my white shoes?" I said,"Lord, that's a little too much." I go,"No, you, you are not asking me to mess up my white shoes." So then he goes,"Well, turn them over and look." And then on the bottom of my shoes, it's a platform with...
00:27:10.040 --> 00:27:11.601
And I wrote freedom on the bottom.
00:27:11.780 --> 00:27:14.270
And, you know, this is, this is totally God.
00:27:14.510 --> 00:27:19.416
I mean, so I walked in my freedom, um In, for years.
00:27:19.547 --> 00:27:20.696
So did I get it so you could see them?
00:27:20.707 --> 00:27:21.767
Oh my gosh.
00:27:21.797 --> 00:27:22.047
Yeah.
00:27:22.067 --> 00:27:22.416
Yeah.
00:27:22.426 --> 00:27:22.730
Oh my gosh.
00:27:22.730 --> 00:27:23.626
So these are my shoes.
00:27:23.836 --> 00:27:25.916
And these, you know, I love.
00:27:26.146 --> 00:27:27.446
These shoes are gold.
00:27:27.446 --> 00:27:29.557
One time my car got broken into, right?
00:27:29.557 --> 00:27:33.146
And my shoes were in the trunk, and God did not let those people take my shoes.
00:27:33.497 --> 00:27:33.997
No.
00:27:34.297 --> 00:27:39.537
These shoes are, are my legend from prison because these shoes say it all.
00:27:39.557 --> 00:27:42.636
So I know who, if the Son sets free, it's free indeed.
00:27:42.636 --> 00:27:47.757
So He set me free in prison because He wanted me to know I was physically in prison, but I was spiritually free.
00:27:47.997 --> 00:27:49.116
And I walked it out.
00:27:49.307 --> 00:27:49.866
I did.
00:27:49.946 --> 00:27:54.196
And, and how many years into your sentence did the Lord give you these shoes?
00:27:54.376 --> 00:27:57.366
I would say, like, a good five years, and they didn't even wear out.
00:27:58.106 --> 00:28:04.126
So did you take from that as, was it like a promise that you would be set free?
00:28:04.136 --> 00:28:08.916
Did you view it like a promise that- No He was going to overturn your conviction somehow?
00:28:08.926 --> 00:28:13.027
Or, or He didn't necessarily say the import of the shoes?
00:28:13.027 --> 00:28:13.182
I
00:28:13.182 --> 00:28:19.836
think, I think I, I got to the point where I surrendered life without the possibility of parole, and I didn't even care if I never went home.
00:28:19.836 --> 00:28:21.707
This was two years before I got out.
00:28:21.967 --> 00:28:26.257
I think the shoes symbolize that I was walking free in Him, in the Spirit.
00:28:26.527 --> 00:28:34.446
So then about- Oh two years before I got out, I, it was clear as day, He's saying,"I want you to surrender life without." And I go, ooh, that was a hard one.
00:28:34.446 --> 00:28:41.787
That makes me cry, too, because why would I wanna submit- Oh surrender life without the possibility of parole and never go home and see my children again?
00:28:41.787 --> 00:28:44.836
'Cause that's what I felt like He was asking me, that I was never gonna go home.
00:28:44.836 --> 00:29:00.116
And He goes, He goes,"Just surrender it to me." So I cried and got on my knees and I said, it's gonna make me cry,"God, I surrender life without the pos- possibility of parole, and if I never go home, I'm gonna still serve you with all my heart.
00:29:00.207 --> 00:29:06.096
I will, I promise I will serve you with all my heart, and I'll touch lives of these women and what you want me to do.
00:29:06.747 --> 00:29:23.856
Father God, just show me and just be with me and let me feel your presence like never before and let me glorify you no matter what, that I promise I will serve you all the days of my life." And, um, so that was, um, the last two years, and then look where I am now.
00:29:24.696 --> 00:29:25.517
I mean, it's like-
00:29:25.517 --> 00:29:26.007
Oh my gosh
00:29:26.086 --> 00:29:40.621
it, surrender's the key to, first forgiveness is the keys to, um- to freedom'cause that is really how when you forgive others, you'll be set free from them because, you know, you don't want them to hold you in prison in your mind.
00:29:40.621 --> 00:29:46.010
So I was set free when I forgave my, um, my enemies or my, you know, people that have lied on me.
00:29:46.050 --> 00:29:50.861
Um, in the very beginning, I forgave my enemies because I wanted to be set free in my mind.
00:29:50.861 --> 00:29:52.820
I didn't want my mind to be in prison.
00:29:53.131 --> 00:30:02.040
So then later on, he, he said,"I want you to surrender." So, so I really believe forgiveness is the keys to, to really the Kingdom of God to be set free.
00:30:02.530 --> 00:30:08.040
But I really believe then surrender is just the whole thing, the whole package to get everything that God has for you.
00:30:08.250 --> 00:30:13.651
And then I really believe then the miracle comes, and you just walk in it, and I walked in it with the shoes.
00:30:13.651 --> 00:30:18.010
The shoes were evidence that I was walking my freedom out, and I was just...
00:30:18.191 --> 00:30:23.851
You know, and I was trusting Him, and I was loving the way, uh, He was using me the last two years.
00:30:23.851 --> 00:30:28.740
I mean, I, I can't even begin to tell you how I had joy every day.
00:30:28.740 --> 00:30:31.000
The joy of the Lord was my s- my strength.
00:30:31.010 --> 00:30:36.691
I would pray for women to be, um To be delivered from cancer that, you know, to heal.
00:30:36.971 --> 00:30:41.371
God used me to heal them from cancer, breast cancer, throat cancer, and they got healed.
00:30:41.851 --> 00:30:47.921
I mean, but I know it was because of God, but I was serious, and I was walking, and I was believing and had faith.
00:30:47.931 --> 00:30:50.520
I really went from faith to faith to glory to glory.
00:30:50.681 --> 00:30:57.840
You know, and God in that prison was really, it was, it was my boot camp and to become who I am today, and I love it.
00:30:57.871 --> 00:30:58.911
I'm excited.
00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:02.280
I mean, I just, I'm trying to fathom, like, it's so intense.
00:31:02.280 --> 00:31:05.070
He gives you these freedom shoes, and then year after...
00:31:05.121 --> 00:31:23.560
At, at year five, let's say, it sounds like, and then year after year, you're still waiting and waiting and wondering, like,"Okay, Lord, is this a deliverance or not?" And then at year 16, one year before you actually get out, and you had no idea at that point if you would or not, the Lord asks you to surrender- Mm-hmm to life without parole.
00:31:23.611 --> 00:31:23.830
I know.
00:31:23.830 --> 00:31:27.540
He asks you,"Can you surrender to me?" And you actually did it.
00:31:27.560 --> 00:31:29.780
It just, my jaw is on the floor.
00:31:30.030 --> 00:31:33.151
Your testimony is so inspiring.
00:31:33.431 --> 00:31:36.941
I just cannot even begin to describe to you.
00:31:37.111 --> 00:31:38.651
So I wanna go back.
00:31:38.871 --> 00:31:42.901
Let's say we're at year five or six, and the years are passing on.
00:31:42.961 --> 00:31:44.250
You've got the freedom shoes.
00:31:44.520 --> 00:31:52.421
Did you ever feel like there were times when God was silent, or did you feel His presence pretty consistently?
00:31:52.590 --> 00:31:53.371
I'm just curious.
00:31:53.371 --> 00:31:53.590
Yeah.
00:31:53.590 --> 00:31:56.570
Like, did He test you in that way, like silent seasons or?
00:31:56.621 --> 00:32:09.500
I think when I was, you know, always seeking Him in the morning and praying and, and just really, um, trusting Him and, um, I think I really did feel His presence, um, probably all the time.
00:32:09.550 --> 00:32:14.461
But and then there was those little quiet times where I would say, you know, like,"I'm still here.
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:22.111
Like, nothing's happening." And I had The Innocent Project was working on my case before Deirdre O'Connor, Innocent Matters, started working on my case.
00:32:22.111 --> 00:32:31.181
So I, I kinda questioned it sometimes, but, but when it really came down to it, at the end of the day and in everything, I just said,"You know what, God?
00:32:31.181 --> 00:32:43.949
I just know You're greater and bigger than my situation, and that I have to know that, you know, He that lives in me is greater than he that lives in the world." And I had to, you know, keep- Keep going on and, and not let the enemy, you know, take my mind.
00:32:43.959 --> 00:32:46.439
Because it's really the mind is where the enemy comes.
00:32:46.439 --> 00:32:48.868
But the heart- Right is where God and the Spirit lives.
00:32:48.868 --> 00:32:52.419
So you have to recognize, and I, I learned more and more.
00:32:52.419 --> 00:32:53.989
And as I learned more and more how to...
00:32:54.249 --> 00:32:59.888
You know, I would even tell the enemy, sometimes I'd say,"Shut up,"'cause he would tell me,"You're never gonna go home." So I'd say,"Shut up.
00:33:00.308 --> 00:33:07.999
I, I know when God wants me to go home, I'll go home." I,'cause I quit telling God that He was gonna let me go home, that I was gonna have a supernatural miracle.
00:33:07.999 --> 00:33:09.118
Every year I was telling God.
00:33:09.118 --> 00:33:14.028
And you know, sometimes when you keep telling God, He's, He's still waiting for you to just say,"Can you just let me do it?
00:33:14.028 --> 00:33:15.769
Quit telling me what to do." You know?
00:33:15.778 --> 00:33:15.788
Mm.
00:33:15.798 --> 00:33:18.828
God doesn't want us to tell Him what to do.
00:33:18.828 --> 00:33:22.118
And I mean, I just kept learning to just let go, let God.
00:33:22.128 --> 00:33:25.449
And so I think that was my key to my freedom.
00:33:25.489 --> 00:33:26.118
Wow.
00:33:26.118 --> 00:33:29.828
Uh, uh, I m- and I'm just processing all of it.
00:33:30.128 --> 00:33:34.989
Did any specific passages about suffering comfort you the most?
00:33:34.989 --> 00:33:45.858
Like let's say Job or the Psalms of Lament or, you know, what, what were your go-tos in terms of theology and verses when you were, you know, seeking comfort- Yeah from God?
00:33:45.919 --> 00:34:00.146
I mean, I think, um- Joseph was pretty much my story because how Joseph, you know, forgave his brothers and, and said- Gosh that it was God that, um, that really was there and, and, and God was with him.
00:34:00.166 --> 00:34:03.007
And that's how I felt with me, how God was with me.
00:34:03.007 --> 00:34:17.456
And I think Paul in the New Testament, all the love letters, and then I would read Philippians and it said,"Rejoice and have joy." And I would count them and there'd be like 12 rejoices or 14 joys and I was like,"Well, wow, Paul was in prison.
00:34:17.456 --> 00:34:18.797
God, how does he rejoice?
00:34:18.797 --> 00:34:21.597
How does he have joy?" And then there was a scripture.
00:34:21.666 --> 00:34:25.356
So I was- I would say,"Is that what you want me to have joy in prison?
00:34:25.427 --> 00:34:34.646
If Paul could have joy in prison, then I guess I, I can too, Lord." So I think that was, that was a great encounter and really touched my spirit.
00:34:34.646 --> 00:34:55.186
And then I think there's Philippians where it was four, um, I think it's 4:6, but it says,"Rejoice." And again, he says,"Rejoice and thank me." And you know, it's like we're supposed to thank him and rejoice, you know, in our situation because if you really think about it, every bad situation and everything I went through, all it did was brought me closer to God.
00:34:55.197 --> 00:35:02.646
And I had a choice to either pick that God was gonna be with me and he was gonna take me through it, and I was gonna get closer and closer to him.
00:35:02.646 --> 00:35:12.197
And I think that's the key that helped me, my own survival, was to, um, to just seek him and, and know that he, that he had a plan and a purpose.
00:35:12.197 --> 00:35:14.456
And, and in my pain, he took my pain.
00:35:14.757 --> 00:35:17.976
Even though I was in pain, I knew he still had a purpose in my pain.
00:35:17.976 --> 00:35:20.806
I didn't let my pain, you know, like control me.
00:35:20.806 --> 00:35:26.806
I let his purpose be my purpose and really just say,"Okay, God, what do you want us to do today?
00:35:26.867 --> 00:35:32.036
You know, I'm, I'm your servant and I'm..." And, and I think I was really...
00:35:32.137 --> 00:35:36.766
I just wanted to do what God wanted me to do,'cause I didn't want prison to be in me.
00:35:36.786 --> 00:35:49.967
You know, prison is a very ugly, very ugly place, and there's some very ugly women there and there's some beautiful women there that are so beautiful and that don't even deserve what they got and shouldn't even be there year after year after year.
00:35:49.967 --> 00:35:55.586
I know women have been there 20, 30 years, you know, and they're in their 70s and it's like, who could they hurt?
00:35:55.597 --> 00:35:56.867
And they're still in prison.
00:35:56.867 --> 00:35:57.766
It's so sad.
00:35:57.766 --> 00:35:58.706
It breaks my heart.
00:35:58.836 --> 00:36:00.657
My heart is still for the prisoners.
00:36:00.657 --> 00:36:12.556
I go back to the prison where I was, you know, where I was at for 17 years and I go to this other prison that is south, but that one is a smaller prison, but'cause I love prison.
00:36:12.556 --> 00:36:13.887
I love the women in prison.
00:36:13.887 --> 00:36:14.777
That's my heart.
00:36:14.976 --> 00:36:15.086
Hmm.
00:36:15.827 --> 00:36:19.467
And I take my shoes, and they wanted me to put my shoes back on.
00:36:19.467 --> 00:36:21.157
And I go,"No, I can't wear these shoes.
00:36:21.157 --> 00:36:29.197
These are prison shoes." So the guards let me go in there and carry my shoes, and that's a miracle itself because they don't let you carry anything in there.
00:36:29.487 --> 00:36:31.246
You can't have nothing when you go in there.
00:36:31.246 --> 00:36:33.476
You gotta be totally pat down, stripped.
00:36:33.626 --> 00:36:35.056
And they don't even pat me down.
00:36:35.097 --> 00:36:37.027
They just let me go in with my shoes.
00:36:37.336 --> 00:36:37.556
Mm.
00:36:37.786 --> 00:36:38.487
It's so amazing.
00:36:38.606 --> 00:36:39.056
It's a miracle.
00:36:39.246 --> 00:36:44.867
And then I even go into a detention center where the gang member, young kids are that are gang members.
00:36:44.867 --> 00:36:57.137
And I, I have a badge now that I just show the badge, and I get in there and see these young kids and speak into their lives and, and tell them about Jesus and tell them how the- Yeah gang members put me away for 17 years, and they weren't there for me.
00:36:57.137 --> 00:36:59.126
So you don't wanna be in a gang.
00:36:59.137 --> 00:37:00.646
You want your life turned around.
00:37:00.646 --> 00:37:03.527
And I have them crying, and they wanna give their lives to Jesus.
00:37:03.586 --> 00:37:04.077
Wow.
00:37:04.146 --> 00:37:10.507
My gosh, I'm just getting chills as we're- It's just amazing to see God redeem your story.
00:37:10.617 --> 00:37:21.847
I- I'm wondering, what did it mean to be rooted in Christ all those years in prison when your earthly identity was stripped, like, and, and you had been labeled with this, you know, guilty label?
00:37:21.976 --> 00:37:24.976
What does it mean to have your identity completely in Christ?
00:37:24.976 --> 00:37:29.407
I mean, you learned it in a way that, uh, I don't think many of us can, you know?
00:37:29.407 --> 00:37:32.237
Like, other than an experience like what you went through.
00:37:32.246 --> 00:37:32.657
Mm-hmm.
00:37:32.967 --> 00:37:45.083
Well, I think, um, like, first of all, I was, um- I was told I was a murderer, so first-degree murder Right that right there is enough to, you know, make somebody's mind just go crazy.
00:37:45.572 --> 00:37:45.773
Yeah.
00:37:45.983 --> 00:37:54.262
But I knew I wasn't a murderer, but, um, I knew that, um, that I'd been forgiven for all my sins and knew that God, you know, had forgiven me.
00:37:54.262 --> 00:37:59.992
'Cause we all, we can all be murderers or we can all be sinners, but I knew that God was bigger and greater.
00:38:00.253 --> 00:38:07.472
But I think I, I wanted to label myself as my identity in Christ, so that was what I had to, you know And it took years.
00:38:07.483 --> 00:38:12.612
It didn't just happen overnight, and it took years and years where I realized my identity's in Christ.
00:38:12.913 --> 00:38:14.802
And then I love the blood of Jesus.
00:38:14.802 --> 00:38:24.483
I would have to put my, my hands over my head, and I would say the blood of Jesus over, over my mind because my mind would try to take me there and say,"Oh, you're never gonna go home.
00:38:24.503 --> 00:38:40.143
You know they got you here for murder, first-degree murder, and, you know, they believe you, you were there." And so I would take my, you know, and plead the blood of Jesus over my mind for God to renew my mind so my mind could be Christ my own Christ-centered or kingdom-minded.
00:38:40.393 --> 00:38:45.512
So it didn't So my mind could not take, take me and believe the lies.
00:38:45.523 --> 00:38:48.713
So I had to, um, I had to really take my mind.
00:38:48.722 --> 00:38:48.733
Mm.
00:38:48.753 --> 00:38:49.802
I had to speak too.
00:38:49.802 --> 00:38:51.032
Your words are so powerful.
00:38:51.032 --> 00:39:05.043
I would speak,"No, I'm My identity is in Jesus, and the blood of Jesus is my DNA, and I am a child of God, and I'm a new creation, and I'm a woman." I really believe that I was, you know, the daughter of the Most High.
00:39:05.063 --> 00:39:10.572
So these things really, you know, captured my, my heart, and, and I started believing it.
00:39:10.572 --> 00:39:13.842
And once I started believing it, I walked different, I talked different.
00:39:14.123 --> 00:39:15.322
People looked at me different.
00:39:15.353 --> 00:39:16.802
Even the cops looked at me.
00:39:16.853 --> 00:39:24.902
I feel like they, they looked at me where they'd be cussing and saying bad words, and they would see me walking up, and they'd go,"Oh, Melanie's here.
00:39:24.952 --> 00:39:26.123
You better quit cussing." Mm.
00:39:26.123 --> 00:39:26.532
You know?
00:39:26.572 --> 00:39:27.782
Like, they respected me.
00:39:27.782 --> 00:39:29.902
They had, they had a, a love for me.
00:39:29.902 --> 00:39:34.882
I can't even explain it, but I mean, there was a few cops that thought maybe I w- that I did the crime.
00:39:34.882 --> 00:39:37.773
But most of them thought,"No, this, this woman's innocent.
00:39:37.782 --> 00:39:39.313
She did not do no crime."
00:39:39.382 --> 00:39:40.172
Wow.
00:39:40.242 --> 00:39:40.483
They-
00:39:40.483 --> 00:39:43.400
Oh, my gosh Uh, uh, wow.
00:39:43.481 --> 00:39:47.251
Was it hard when people, obviously, when people didn't believe you?
00:39:47.291 --> 00:39:54.010
'Cause I think in your book you describe some interactions where it was painful when people wouldn't believe, when the cops wouldn't believe you or whatever.
00:39:54.161 --> 00:39:57.440
And that identifies with how Jesus was so- Mm-hmm misunderstood.
00:39:57.481 --> 00:39:57.990
Yeah.
00:39:58.081 --> 00:39:58.471
I know.
00:39:58.481 --> 00:40:14.871
When I think about Jesus went to prison and all these, you know, disciples went to prison- Yeah and I thought,"Wow, God." And then I'm thinking, I don't know, I kinda looked at it like maybe, you know, it, it wasn't a bad thing, you know, that there was something bigger and greater that God was doing in me.
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:19.871
So I just- Hmm had to hold on to faith and, and keep my faith alive.
00:40:19.871 --> 00:40:23.920
And I knew that love really, um, activated faith.
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:28.231
And I remember asking God, um, to teach me how to love on purpose.
00:40:28.251 --> 00:40:31.121
'Cause there was women in there that I'm thinking,"Lord, I can't love her.
00:40:31.130 --> 00:40:35.971
She's so mean." And when I said,"God, teach me how to love on purpose," He, He gave...
00:40:36.221 --> 00:40:43.751
I mean, I really believe it was from God,'cause I asked to love on purpose, and I got one of the top 10 meanest bunkies in the whole prison.
00:40:43.971 --> 00:40:53.751
Out of 40,000 women- Oof out of 4,000 women, there's this one woman that was top 10- Hmm of one of the meanest women in prison, and she was mean and hateful.
00:40:53.971 --> 00:40:58.951
And she was my bunkie for two years, and I learned how to love on purpose with her, and I really did.
00:40:59.121 --> 00:41:04.291
And she ended up writing me a beautiful letter and asking me to forgive her,'cause I moved out.
00:41:04.291 --> 00:41:10.081
When she told me I was never gonna go home, I moved out,'cause I said,"I can't..." You know, I couldn't live there anymore with her.
00:41:10.081 --> 00:41:11.371
'Cause she goes,"You have a life without.
00:41:11.371 --> 00:41:13.740
You're never gonna go home." And she had 25 to life.
00:41:14.021 --> 00:41:19.851
Well, I went home, um, probably a few years after that, and then she still was in prison after me.
00:41:19.851 --> 00:41:23.550
So you, you better watch what you say to people and being mean.
00:41:23.561 --> 00:41:27.201
Because I went home two years before her, and she was 25 to life.
00:41:27.240 --> 00:41:28.411
I was never to go home.
00:41:28.661 --> 00:41:38.030
But when she told me I was never gonna go home, I did go home, you know, because I really, I really did believe that one day, whenever God wanted me to go home, I was gonna go home.
00:41:38.311 --> 00:41:46.190
That was all I would keep telling myself, and that kept me alive in knowing that, you know, that He had me, and I wasn't gonna trip.
00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:48.411
I was gonna believe, you know?
00:41:48.451 --> 00:41:48.960
Right.
00:41:49.221 --> 00:41:51.141
When you felt despair, let's say.
00:41:51.210 --> 00:41:57.181
Let's say you're eight years in and you're thinking,"Oh, I might be in here forever." How was the Lord's grace sufficient?
00:41:57.190 --> 00:42:00.280
Like, did He say,"No, take one day at a time"?
00:42:00.380 --> 00:42:03.851
Like, how did you deal with that overwhelm of,"Oh, my gosh"?
00:42:04.081 --> 00:42:10.150
Were you just disciplining yourself only one moment at a time, like the Israelites in the wilderness with the manna?
00:42:10.161 --> 00:42:10.170
Mm.
00:42:10.420 --> 00:42:10.780
You know?
00:42:10.780 --> 00:42:11.061
Like-
00:42:11.141 --> 00:42:12.190
I love what you're saying.
00:42:12.201 --> 00:42:12.210
Mm.
00:42:12.221 --> 00:42:15.510
Because I think there was a time, you're taking me back to where I would...
00:42:15.911 --> 00:42:20.251
He would say, you know, my spirit, I felt God saying,"Live moment to moment.
00:42:20.260 --> 00:42:23.139
Don't let- Tomorrow, worry about tomorrow.
00:42:23.139 --> 00:42:24.778
Don't worry about what happened yesterday.
00:42:24.809 --> 00:42:26.108
Just live moment to moment.
00:42:26.358 --> 00:42:40.369
And then I started learning more about His grace, and I felt like His grace, I would always say,"God, let your supernatural grace empower me and energize me for each day." And grace means favor, and I would tell people I was blessed and highly favored.
00:42:40.648 --> 00:42:43.259
And some people thought I was crazy'cause I said that.
00:42:43.309 --> 00:42:49.458
But, and, and then some people thought,"Well, I don't know why she thinks she's blessed and highly favored." But I was in the Lord.
00:42:49.469 --> 00:42:50.139
It was Him.
00:42:50.168 --> 00:42:56.199
It wa- and it was, like, blessings that I was favored and that He I mean, He gave me so much favor.
00:42:56.228 --> 00:43:11.894
But it was, it was a beautiful thing, and I just knew it, and you couldn't tell me d- anything else,'cause I knew what me and God had and my relationship with Him was so powerful and so unique that I knew what I had in Him, and nobody could take that from me.
00:43:11.894 --> 00:43:12.565
Nobody.
00:43:12.655 --> 00:43:17.784
Would He speak to your spirit just with the still, soft voice, or did you get visions, or?
00:43:17.824 --> 00:43:22.364
I think I, I saw, I would hear the, the small voice that, you know.
00:43:22.755 --> 00:43:26.715
But the visions that I would get, I would see myself on the beach, that I would-
00:43:26.855 --> 00:43:27.235
Mm.
00:43:27.324 --> 00:43:35.445
And then I remember this woman sent me a picture of me on the beach on a popsicle stick with my picture on the popsicle stick on the beach.
00:43:35.605 --> 00:43:38.574
And I'm laying there, and she has me laying next to her at the beach.
00:43:38.574 --> 00:43:40.925
And I was starting to see myself at the beach.
00:43:40.934 --> 00:43:42.454
And then she sent me that picture.
00:43:42.775 --> 00:43:47.215
And then so after I got out, I started telling the women to send me their picture.
00:43:47.215 --> 00:43:48.375
And they would send me a picture.
00:43:48.375 --> 00:43:52.675
And I'd put their picture on a popsicle stick with my picture- on a popsicle stick.
00:43:52.675 --> 00:43:59.724
I'd go to the beach, stick in, in the sand, put Freedom on the sand, take a picture, go have it developed, send it to the women.
00:44:00.005 --> 00:44:03.664
And every woman I did that to, there's over 10 of them, they're all home now.
00:44:03.664 --> 00:44:06.114
And they had, some of them had life without the possibility of parole.
00:44:06.295 --> 00:44:08.454
'Cause I go,"You've got to see your vision.
00:44:08.465 --> 00:44:12.875
You cannot say,'Oh, one day I'm gonna go home.' No, you have to start seeing it.
00:44:12.934 --> 00:44:22.605
And once you start seeing it, God's saying,'Okay, you're getting it now.'" And then every one of those women, there's not one woman that didn't get that picture on the popsicle stick of them on the beach.
00:44:22.925 --> 00:44:24.105
They're all home now.
00:44:24.135 --> 00:44:25.695
So I just know God gives me- So
00:44:25.695 --> 00:44:26.735
their con- Sorry.
00:44:26.945 --> 00:44:27.005
Yeah.
00:44:27.014 --> 00:44:29.715
I was gonna say, their convictions were overturned as well?
00:44:29.724 --> 00:44:30.114
Yeah.
00:44:30.184 --> 00:44:30.635
Oh, yeah.
00:44:30.764 --> 00:44:36.344
Well, I mean, it wasn't like innocent, but they were able to go to the, um, governor and then do a clemency.
00:44:36.355 --> 00:44:36.855
So they-
00:44:37.094 --> 00:44:37.315
Oh
00:44:37.364 --> 00:44:39.235
some of them got out on a clemency.
00:44:39.255 --> 00:44:39.934
Some had-
00:44:40.255 --> 00:44:40.494
Wow
00:44:40.505 --> 00:44:41.695
um, 25 to life.
00:44:41.695 --> 00:44:46.094
They go to board, and they would, instead of rolling them over- Mm they'd give them a day and they would go home.
00:44:46.255 --> 00:44:50.934
I mean, I just love how you continue your ministry even today- to minister to these women.
00:44:50.934 --> 00:44:52.315
I mean, it's just so amazing.
00:44:52.735 --> 00:44:58.605
I wanna ask, what unexpected insights about God did He give you while in prison?
00:44:58.605 --> 00:45:00.885
Like, did the Lord give you any other sweet...
00:45:01.114 --> 00:45:04.894
You know, one of my friends says the Lord speaks, you know, sweet things in the dark.
00:45:05.045 --> 00:45:12.724
Like, did, d- you know, can you share with us what the Holy Spirit has shared with you, you know, precious insights about His, Himself or-
00:45:13.304 --> 00:45:21.784
Well, I keep thinking about the double mattress because when you turn 55 the cop wanna give you a double mattress so you can get comfortable.
00:45:21.795 --> 00:45:32.695
So the cop came down the hallway, you know, with these double mats- mattresses stacked up And so he, um, my gosh, so he said,"Melyn, I got your double mattress.
00:45:32.724 --> 00:45:35.695
Um, I'm gonna bring it in." And I go,"No, you're not.
00:45:35.695 --> 00:45:37.144
I don't want no double mattress.
00:45:37.144 --> 00:45:38.375
I'm not getting comfortable here.
00:45:38.375 --> 00:45:43.094
This is not my home." And then my roommates got all upset with me and go,"Melyn, you're crazy.
00:45:43.094 --> 00:45:50.005
You have life without." And I go,"No, I have life with a purpose, and I'm not getting comfortable here." When God wants me to go home, I'm gonna go home.
00:45:50.045 --> 00:45:57.574
So I didn't get the double mattress, but I knew it was the spirit of God telling me,"Do not get comfortable there."'Cause some women would decorate their, their cell.
00:45:57.735 --> 00:45:59.364
I never decorated my cell.
00:45:59.364 --> 00:46:01.824
I never wanted a double mattress'cause it wasn't my home.
00:46:02.105 --> 00:46:03.664
I wasn't gonna make it my home.
00:46:03.775 --> 00:46:03.795
Wow.
00:46:03.824 --> 00:46:04.784
There's no way.
00:46:04.784 --> 00:46:10.815
I knew th- that even we're citizens of Heaven, but prison's never gonna be my home, my heart belonged-
00:46:11.065 --> 00:46:11.264
Mm
00:46:11.275 --> 00:46:12.034
to the children.
00:46:12.275 --> 00:46:12.824
Mm.
00:46:13.065 --> 00:46:19.005
So that was probably one that really touched my heart because the Holy Spirit did not want me to get comfortable there.
00:46:19.014 --> 00:46:22.195
And then so I was able to deny that double mattress.
00:46:22.195 --> 00:46:28.085
Now I'm trying to- Wow there's so many of them, and probably the shoes is my favorite.
00:46:28.094 --> 00:46:37.454
You know, to write freedom on the bottom of the shoes- Yeah because I use that now when I speak where I can testify how, you know, I walked my freedom in prison.
00:46:37.465 --> 00:46:53.391
So I think that was my legend I left in prison, but it was God's legend because the women, when I got on the news and they all saw me on the news, I think that was a, a really big Um, thing because the cops got on the loudspeaker and said,"Mellon, um, is getting released.
00:46:53.391 --> 00:46:57.550
Everybody get on the cha- on the news channel." I was on all the news channels.
00:46:57.740 --> 00:47:04.911
So they were all watching me on the news, and then after I, I got out and they saw all that, but they started writing freedom on the bottom of their shoes.
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:05.420
And they-
00:47:05.501 --> 00:47:05.721
Oh
00:47:05.791 --> 00:47:14.710
got rid of their double mattress too, because they knew that I was not the woman with the double mattress, and I was the woman that, that had faith and wrote freedom on my shoes.
00:47:14.710 --> 00:47:30.001
So, and then, so many women I heard later, a few weeks later I talked to somebody, and they said that, um, they were running to church, to go to church, and some of the Jewish women that didn't believe in, um, Jesus, they were going to church and getting saved.
00:47:30.291 --> 00:47:33.510
And they wanted, you know, they wanted to believe like I did.
00:47:33.521 --> 00:47:36.371
I mean, it, God just used me in a powerful way.
00:47:36.431 --> 00:47:38.161
I mean, it's such a Joseph story.
00:47:38.190 --> 00:47:39.621
Like, it's so clearly Joseph.
00:47:40.431 --> 00:47:47.490
Like, you get unjustly thrown in prison, and yet- God intended it for good to use you literally in that prison, and even now.
00:47:47.490 --> 00:47:50.911
I mean- Mm-hmm the redemption just puts chills all over my body.
00:47:50.940 --> 00:47:50.951
Oh.
00:47:50.951 --> 00:47:50.960
I,
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:54.130
you know, I, and I mean that genuinely.
00:47:54.161 --> 00:47:55.641
Sort of brings tears to my eyes.
00:47:55.650 --> 00:48:03.271
Like, I, I'm also wondering how Jesus's command to take up your cross, you know, how did that play a role?
00:48:03.311 --> 00:48:07.210
How did that verse start becoming alive to you at any point in time?
00:48:07.221 --> 00:48:09.931
Because obviously you were carrying this huge cross.
00:48:10.010 --> 00:48:10.371
I know.
00:48:10.371 --> 00:48:14.331
I, I think I, I never understood, like, where I'm carrying the cross.
00:48:14.701 --> 00:48:15.800
I think I knew...
00:48:15.931 --> 00:48:16.701
I, I don't know.
00:48:16.701 --> 00:48:24.780
Like, I just felt like I had such joy in the Lord that I thought the cross might have made it, maybe it was more painful.
00:48:24.791 --> 00:48:25.471
So I didn't...
00:48:25.831 --> 00:48:31.971
I think I just wanted, um, I just wanted whatever He wanted me to have and whatever He wanted me to do.
00:48:31.971 --> 00:48:37.251
I just wanted to be, you know, be all that He created me to be and to give Him glory.
00:48:37.251 --> 00:48:54.681
I think, I think the cross, um, when I look at the cross, what I see is Jesus on the cross and He says,"Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they've done." And then I remember, um, I kept questioning God and saying,"God, I forgive my enemies,"'cause I kept questioning like, do I, did I really forgive them?
00:48:54.681 --> 00:48:57.911
I mean, gosh, they gave me life without the possibility of parole.
00:48:57.911 --> 00:49:00.911
So then I, I kinda felt like I didn't really forgive them.
00:49:00.911 --> 00:49:09.481
And then, then as clear as day the Spirit said,"I want you to go a little step further." And I go,"I already forgave them, Lord," and I really believed I did.
00:49:09.481 --> 00:49:26.760
And He goes,"Well, now I want you to thank them." I go,"Thank them?" I said,"Lord." I said,"Thank them for life without a death sentence?" I go,"That's crazy." And then He says,"No, I want you to thank them." So I said,"Okay, I'm gonna thank my enemies." He goes,"They brought you closer to Me." And then I, that made me cry.
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:32.860
Like, I started bawling because they really did bring me closer to Him, and there is a blessing in it all.
00:49:32.911 --> 00:49:45.728
But you, you just gotta know that God is a good God and He will make anything that was meant for evil, He will bring good- Out in every situation, if we allow Him to, and that's the key, you know?
00:49:45.759 --> 00:49:45.768
Oh
00:49:45.778 --> 00:49:46.559
my gosh.
00:49:46.608 --> 00:49:59.869
I mean, the forgiveness that you were able to get to, and even thanking your enemies- Mm-hmm and the prosecutors, and all the people who unjustly threw you into prison, is that something that came quickly, or was it, like, a long obedience over time?
00:50:00.068 --> 00:50:03.728
Like, where you had to struggle with the Lord,"Oh, I don't wanna forgive them." At what point?
00:50:03.739 --> 00:50:10.099
Was it year 10, or do you remember, like, when you were finally able to give up any bitterness to the extent you had it?
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:21.148
Yeah, I think, I don't think I've ever had bitterness, and I was always forgiving, and I always wanted to think- Wow that maybe they didn't know the truth, so they didn't know, so they believed the lie.
00:50:21.179 --> 00:50:23.679
But I really believe that it did take a long time.
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:33.768
When it was just one day when I kept questioning myself, like,"I forgive my enemies," and then it was like,'cause I kept getting tired of saying it, like, maybe I didn't really believe I forgave them.
00:50:33.998 --> 00:50:42.588
And then that's when the Spirit, and He said,"I want you to go a step further." And I'm like,"A step further?" And then He said,"I want you to thank them." And then I thought, wow, when you thank your enemies.
00:50:42.869 --> 00:50:44.918
I think it gave me a, a, a peace.
00:50:44.918 --> 00:50:49.139
It gave me a freedom to be set free from them, because if I...
00:50:49.139 --> 00:50:56.648
You can thank your enemies, man, that, like, to me is like, you don't have no hold on me anymore, so how about that, you know?
00:50:56.648 --> 00:51:01.918
And you can even kinda laugh at the enemy, like, haha, I can even forgive them and thank them.
00:51:01.918 --> 00:51:03.789
How about that, Devil, you know?
00:51:03.818 --> 00:51:06.818
And then just- Wow be really set free, right?
00:51:06.818 --> 00:51:11.298
From your enemies will try to captivate you and keep you in prison, for sure.
00:51:11.329 --> 00:51:18.759
What would you t- say to someone out there who thinks that forgiving means losing their voice or minimizing their pain?
00:51:18.918 --> 00:51:20.509
Like, does that make sense?
00:51:20.509 --> 00:51:20.969
Yeah.
00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:25.588
Like, like, kinda like you're, not that you're agreeing with the- Yeah crime, but do you get what I'm asking?
00:51:25.759 --> 00:51:35.528
Well, when you look at the cross and how g- Jesus forgave us, so when you, when you say,"Lord Jesus, I can't forgive them," guess what you're saying?
00:51:35.739 --> 00:51:38.378
What you did on the cross, Jesus, wasn't enough for me.
00:51:38.498 --> 00:51:43.528
So you're putting yourself o- off the cross, and you're putting Him back on the cross.
00:51:43.539 --> 00:51:43.559
Wow.
00:51:43.568 --> 00:51:46.119
So why would you wanna put Him back on the cross?
00:51:46.119 --> 00:51:53.599
'Cause what He did was enough, and what He is doing in your life, if you forgive, He did it, so He's just showing us what to do.
00:51:53.809 --> 00:51:55.759
It's to be more like Jesus.
00:51:55.969 --> 00:51:58.349
It, it really is the power against the enemy.
00:51:58.349 --> 00:52:01.829
It's a power in the cross to not keep putting yourself on the cross.
00:52:01.829 --> 00:52:05.009
You carry your cross, but you don't wanna put Him back on the cross.
00:52:05.009 --> 00:52:13.719
You wanna, you wanna take Him off the cross, because what He did, He did it and, and He really did forgive us, and now we forgive our enemies.
00:52:13.719 --> 00:52:17.469
And then we set our enemies free, but we really get set free.
00:52:17.548 --> 00:52:18.179
Mm.
00:52:18.469 --> 00:52:19.858
I mean, you have so much wisdom.
00:52:19.858 --> 00:52:21.128
It's just unbelievable.
00:52:21.429 --> 00:52:25.489
I'm wondering if you experienced any other spiritual warfare.
00:52:25.659 --> 00:52:29.318
You described some, like, with, you know, the enemy planting lies in your mind.
00:52:29.329 --> 00:52:29.349
Mm-hmm.
00:52:29.358 --> 00:52:34.398
But did you experience anything else in prison, because it's such a dark place, you know?
00:52:34.458 --> 00:52:35.018
Mm-hmm.
00:52:35.018 --> 00:52:36.969
Forces of evil or demons or anything like that.
00:52:36.969 --> 00:52:37.929
I'm just curious.
00:52:37.989 --> 00:52:38.378
You know what?
00:52:39.411 --> 00:52:43.431
One time this woman wanted me to pray for her, and she took my hands and put them on her head.
00:52:43.681 --> 00:52:49.451
And I said,"No, I can't pray for you." She wanted me to pray for the demons to come out of her, and I go,"I'm not called to do that." Oh.
00:52:49.451 --> 00:52:52.440
And for two weeks I was really sick after that because she-
00:52:52.601 --> 00:52:52.871
Oh
00:52:52.891 --> 00:52:57.650
she forced my hands on her head to pray for these demons to come out of her, and I said,"I can't.
00:52:57.650 --> 00:53:03.161
I don't..." I mean, I had no clue how to do that, and I feel you have to be called to that, to do that, and you have to know how to do that.
00:53:03.161 --> 00:53:17.621
And I, I- Mm and, and I was so sick for two weeks, but I've had a lot of experience where I've seen people beat up women, um, just their, their foul mouth, and just the evilness and, um-
00:53:17.641 --> 00:53:18.070
Yeah
00:53:18.240 --> 00:53:18.570
yeah.
00:53:18.570 --> 00:53:27.021
And then sometimes in the room they would say somebody stole something in the room, and I'm like, they would say,"Well, who's the thief?" And I go,"Well, I'm not here for stealing.
00:53:27.271 --> 00:53:43.260
I'm here for murder." So they would, you know, say,"Oh, Melanie." But you know, but it, it was a joke'cause I always try to make jokes about everything'cause,'cause if I'm here for murder, I'm not a thief, so you better find somebody that's here for stealing, you know, because they were so upset and they wanted to fight somebody.
00:53:43.581 --> 00:53:56.311
You know, and there was women that wanted to fight me too, and I talked them out of it, thank God, because, um, I know it was a spirit of, of the Lord, and I would, um, tell them that I didn't do what they were accusing me of and that I wanted to go home.
00:53:56.311 --> 00:54:08.501
"Don't you wanna go home?" And I would actually talk to them in their emotions and try to get them to understand that, you know, we both wanna go home, and, you know, you have kids, and, you know, and, and this isn't the answer to fight.
00:54:08.501 --> 00:54:11.931
And, and so they ended up hugging me and telling me they were sorry.
00:54:11.931 --> 00:54:17.181
But yeah, there, there's so many angry women and that they don't know any better.
00:54:17.210 --> 00:54:25.590
So I would- Yeah try to speak to their hearts and, you know, and talk them out of it You know, trying to beat me up, but I probably would've beat them up.
00:54:27.251 --> 00:54:27.751
I mean, I'm
00:54:27.851 --> 00:54:28.960
scared of you, Susan.
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:29.911
Just'cause I would've been fair.
00:54:29.911 --> 00:54:30.090
You're so strong.
00:54:30.090 --> 00:54:31.210
But fair and somebody...
00:54:31.291 --> 00:54:40.070
'Cause I, I have done a few things that were, I had to come through this girl down because she slapped me in the face and called me a F and B word, but it was horrible.
00:54:40.181 --> 00:54:41.911
But I mean- Ugh there's so many stories.
00:54:41.911 --> 00:54:44.960
In 17 years, you know, I have so many stories.
00:54:44.990 --> 00:54:57.610
But it, I just love sharing my story because I know it will touch somebody's life, you know, that is really going through it, and really God wants us to, um, to go through it with Him, and He wants us to seek Him.
00:54:57.800 --> 00:54:58.630
Absolutely.
00:54:58.681 --> 00:55:17.630
And you know, I want to bring us back, um, to this one point where you write in the book, there's this just amazing line where you said,"I'm still in prison, but prison is no longer in me." Can you explain the spiritual shifts that were starting to happen in your heart at that point?
00:55:17.721 --> 00:55:27.951
Well, I really believe that my mind was getting set free, my heart, my whole body, and then the physical part of my body still being in prison.
00:55:28.240 --> 00:55:37.320
I didn't want my mind to be in prison, so I wanted to be set free and walk in the spirit realm, to walk in the Spirit of God and know that the Holy Spirit was living in me.
00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:41.141
The Holy Spirit is the most brilliant genius that lives inside of you.
00:55:41.141 --> 00:55:43.130
That's the happiest person that lives inside of you.
00:55:43.130 --> 00:55:50.800
So I had the most brilliant, happiest person living inside me, so I wanted to be that happy person, that joyful person.
00:55:50.800 --> 00:56:00.070
I wanted to have joy and not be miserable and not be, you know, like just, um, depressed all the ti- I had that in the beginning, the first five years, right?
00:56:00.070 --> 00:56:03.731
So I think little by little I was so set free from all that that...
00:56:04.001 --> 00:56:06.050
And I was never an angry person.
00:56:06.050 --> 00:56:11.990
I just wanted, I just wanted people to see the love of Jesus and how much God loved them, you know?
00:56:11.990 --> 00:56:13.141
And I knew God loved me.
00:56:13.141 --> 00:56:17.550
There's no doubt in my mind that I knew He loved me and He did not put me in that prison.
00:56:17.731 --> 00:56:18.001
Mm.
00:56:18.090 --> 00:56:25.271
Like He was gonna use me, and He, and He loved me enough to take me through, and He was there every minute, every second of the day.
00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:31.420
And just this idea that you came up, or maybe the Holy Spirit gave you the life with a purpose rather than- Yeah life without parole.
00:56:31.420 --> 00:56:34.041
Did the Holy Spirit- Yeah download that into your spirit?
00:56:34.081 --> 00:56:34.951
Oh, totally.
00:56:34.951 --> 00:56:39.411
And that was way, probably after, probably after five or six years.
00:56:39.411 --> 00:56:46.920
So once I got ahold of that, and then reading the Bible, and then where Paul was in prison and he had joy and he rejoiced, and I'm thinking.
00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:54.690
And then that one scripture, Revelations 12:11, it says,"You will overcome the enemy by the blood of the lamb," and it would be my testimony.
00:56:54.951 --> 00:57:02.661
That came alive in me, that scripture, and there's so many other, you know, scriptures that, you know, that aren't coming to my mind right now.
00:57:02.701 --> 00:57:07.501
They'll, that set me free, and then I just started believing what the word of God said.
00:57:07.501 --> 00:57:09.271
It was so powerful, you know?
00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:11.851
And, and it came- Yeah alive in me.
00:57:12.001 --> 00:57:17.067
Um- I mean, it took time and, um, I, I can't even describe it.
00:57:17.067 --> 00:57:21.606
It was so amazing, and I really believe the word of God is really our lifeline.
00:57:21.726 --> 00:57:22.117
Yeah.
00:57:22.427 --> 00:57:33.007
I mean, and I remember in your book, you said one day the Lord said,"Open your Bible." And then y- when you opened it, it fell open to Philippians 4:4, which says,"Rejoice in the Lord always." Yeah.
00:57:33.016 --> 00:57:34.626
"I will say it again, rejoice." Mm-hmm.
00:57:34.666 --> 00:57:41.567
And it's like, i- it's mind-blowing that God asked you to do the impossible, but it's like Paul and Silas- Yeah worshiping in prison.
00:57:41.577 --> 00:57:41.597
Yeah.
00:57:41.606 --> 00:57:42.286
And you did it.
00:57:42.297 --> 00:57:42.606
Mm-hmm.
00:57:42.817 --> 00:57:44.427
And you know why I opened the Bible?
00:57:44.427 --> 00:57:58.467
Because I got denied on my first, um, um, state appeal, and the girl that helped me do the state appeal was Diane Downs, and she was there for killing her two kids, and she shot herself in the arm, and there was a movie she was in.
00:57:58.726 --> 00:58:00.536
But she was my bunkie and very smart.
00:58:00.536 --> 00:58:03.567
Anyway, she helped me do my first state appeal.
00:58:03.567 --> 00:58:08.016
And then, um, when I got the letter, it said I was denied, and I was so sad.
00:58:08.016 --> 00:58:10.806
And then, um, I opened my Bible and that's what it said.
00:58:10.806 --> 00:58:12.467
And so I thought,"Oh, wow.
00:58:12.657 --> 00:58:17.456
You know, I'm to thank you and rejoice." So I thought, you know, you can't make this stuff up.
00:58:17.456 --> 00:58:22.157
But it took a little time before I finally realized, no, I'm to rejoice in here.
00:58:22.177 --> 00:58:23.567
I'm to have joy.
00:58:23.757 --> 00:58:31.257
This is where I am, but it's not gonna, you know, dictate and make me a miserable or a hateful, mean person.
00:58:31.266 --> 00:58:40.117
You know, there was really some mean LWOPs and lifers that were so mean-spirited, and I said,"Lord, I just don't wanna be mean and, and hateful.
00:58:40.117 --> 00:58:42.237
I wanna be loving and kind," you know?
00:58:42.387 --> 00:58:48.817
So I think it was just, um, it was amazing, um, um, trial that I went through.
00:58:48.867 --> 00:58:50.916
But I love how you say singing.
00:58:50.976 --> 00:58:54.246
I wish I was singing in my, in my fire.
00:58:54.277 --> 00:58:57.056
But I know the fire that was in us is a fire.
00:58:57.126 --> 00:58:57.867
It's Jesus.
00:58:57.867 --> 00:58:58.657
He's our fire.
00:58:58.657 --> 00:59:05.097
And I used to say,"I'm gonna, I'm gonna go home one day and I won't even smell like smoke" Oh my gosh.
00:59:05.097 --> 00:59:06.336
Because I was in the fire.
00:59:07.757 --> 00:59:08.637
Absolutely.
00:59:08.637 --> 00:59:21.456
And I just wanna mention also that you literally have one part in your book where you mention that you were, like, a stand-up comedian while giving your testimony, and you just brought so much joy to these- Mm-hmm women who were laughing so hard based on your jokes.
00:59:21.836 --> 00:59:22.157
Mm-hmm.
00:59:22.157 --> 00:59:23.246
And it just, it just...
00:59:23.416 --> 00:59:28.536
Look at how the Lord gave you joy- Mm-hmm i- when you're literally- Yeah in a prison.
00:59:28.626 --> 00:59:34.347
I mean, it's just, it blows my mind how the Lord not only told you to rejoice, but then gave- Mm-hmm you that joy.
00:59:34.646 --> 00:59:34.956
I know.
00:59:34.956 --> 00:59:45.186
Right before I got up, because everybody was falling asleep and I thought,"Oh my God, they're gonna fall asleep on me." So I was the last one speaking, and so I went in and got on my knees and I prayed.
00:59:45.186 --> 00:59:51.447
I go,"God, I think you need to give me laughter to make them laugh, to wake them up." And He did exactly what I prayed for.
00:59:51.447 --> 00:59:58.967
He made them wake up and laugh,'cause they were, they were nodding out and everything, but they didn't nod out and fall asleep on my watch.
01:00:00.802 --> 01:00:06.851
Susie, how did God change your view of endurance and resilience in the day in, day out of prison?
01:00:06.851 --> 01:00:11.672
I mean, how were you practically more than a conqueror in that setting of all places?
01:00:12.797 --> 01:00:24.688
I really believe it was the Holy Spirit and it, it was the word of God and going to church, doing, um, Bible studies and, and watching, um, Daystar and TBN, you know, church channels.
01:00:24.947 --> 01:00:32.748
It's like I had to really feed my spirit, and I couldn't watch regular movies or regular TV or the news'cause they would depress me.
01:00:32.878 --> 01:00:43.657
So I had to stay connected into the word of God and hear the word of God, and that's all I could, um, really handle in order to, to, to handle the pain.
01:00:43.657 --> 01:00:51.007
But I really feel like God did give me purpose in my pain, and He gave me power in my pain to overcome it and not get stuck.
01:00:51.427 --> 01:01:11.998
But through the word of God and listening to, um, preachers on, on, on the, um, Christian channels, I would listen to the Then they would preach something to me that would just touch my spirit and just And have people pray for me and, and just going to church and, and praying for other women and having my own Bible study in prison.
01:01:12.047 --> 01:01:13.697
That just really helped me.
01:01:13.728 --> 01:01:35.688
Team Challenge, I mean, Celebrate Recovery, all the, um, you know, different Bible studies that I took in prison were probably helped me and other women totally get set free and be able to feed their spirit so they weren't stuck- Hmm in their, um, you know, in their soul and being depressed and, um, just, just not, you know, not gonna make it every day.
01:01:35.688 --> 01:01:40.498
I mean, just being in a depressed mode isn't a good thing, and being negative, and I didn't wanna be that way.
01:01:40.498 --> 01:01:44.807
I didn't wanna be There was some, um, lifers that were in there that were miserable.
01:01:44.807 --> 01:01:46.137
I didn't wanna be miserable.
01:01:46.137 --> 01:01:54.327
I wanted to know that I was there, but God was gonna use me, and He had a purpose, and that I was gonna have joy- Hmm no matter what, and I was gonna have His love.
01:01:54.327 --> 01:01:54.387
Hmm.
01:01:54.858 --> 01:01:56.407
I was gonna live on purpose.
01:01:56.847 --> 01:02:01.338
And then I was just, you know, asking the Holy Spirit to help me every day, and Jesus.
01:02:02.715 --> 01:02:03.016
Wow.
01:02:03.706 --> 01:02:06.775
And, and so did you say you had a T- so did you have a TV?
01:02:06.826 --> 01:02:09.976
Yeah, we were able to have a TV- Yeah if your family ordered you one.
01:02:09.976 --> 01:02:13.606
I ha- No I got a TV probably after, I think, two years.
01:02:13.615 --> 01:02:13.626
Oh.
01:02:13.945 --> 01:02:15.126
And so that was a blessing.
01:02:15.126 --> 01:02:19.565
So yeah, I was able to watch, um, Christian channels, and that's all my TV knew.
01:02:19.576 --> 01:02:24.815
My roommates would say- Mm"You're crazy, Mellen." And they, you know, like,"How can you watch that all the time?" Yeah.
01:02:24.815 --> 01:02:26.646
But that's all I wanted to watch.
01:02:26.695 --> 01:02:26.715
Yeah.
01:02:26.715 --> 01:02:33.896
It's all that my mind and m- my spirit can, you know, to handle everything that was going around me, living with seven other women in a cell.
01:02:33.905 --> 01:02:33.916
Oh.
01:02:34.396 --> 01:02:38.806
And then listening to some really bad music, rap.
01:02:38.856 --> 01:02:38.945
Oh.
01:02:38.945 --> 01:02:46.396
And, you know, we'd have headphones, which was a blessing, but and then they would be watching their own TV real loud, and so you had to kinda tune'em out.
01:02:47.036 --> 01:02:47.436
Oh.
01:02:47.865 --> 01:02:49.126
Yeah, that's so hard.
01:02:49.126 --> 01:02:57.735
I mean, the fact that you were just such a light, literally r- you know, radiating Christ's truths from a TV and from your own heart, like, in that space.
01:02:58.076 --> 01:02:58.166
I know.
01:02:58.166 --> 01:03:00.286
It just gives me chills to think about.
01:03:00.596 --> 01:03:03.166
I mean, your story is such a Joseph story.
01:03:03.186 --> 01:03:04.505
Like, I think we mentioned this.
01:03:04.516 --> 01:03:04.565
Thanks.
01:03:05.045 --> 01:03:06.626
And your book mentions this.
01:03:06.646 --> 01:03:10.516
You wrote,"Reading Joseph's story put things into perspective.
01:03:10.516 --> 01:03:13.686
I felt God was using me and my situation for good.
01:03:13.896 --> 01:03:16.076
I had a purpose to help women in prison.
01:03:16.445 --> 01:03:19.235
What was supposed to be bad turned out to be positive.
01:03:19.235 --> 01:03:26.556
I was determined to provide hope inside these walls." And, and then you talked about how you signed up for this Celebrate Recovery.
01:03:26.646 --> 01:03:31.436
Um, it's like a Christ-centered program focusing on, you know, healing hurts and a- addictions.
01:03:31.735 --> 01:03:36.096
And you said that you weren't just serving time, you were serving Him.
01:03:36.255 --> 01:03:38.675
I mean- Right ugh, I just- So okay I get chill.
01:03:38.686 --> 01:03:40.505
L- look at my chills all over the place.
01:03:40.556 --> 01:03:44.516
I really believe, um, that there wasn't a minute that God wasn't with me.
01:03:44.545 --> 01:03:49.115
I wanted to turn my, you know, being miserable into power, but I didn't wanna be powerless.
01:03:49.115 --> 01:03:50.175
I wanted to be powerful.
01:03:50.436 --> 01:03:56.155
But I just wanted, um, to know that God was gonna use me in that prison, in, in my prison cell even.
01:03:56.195 --> 01:04:01.646
I can honestly say that I, I felt like I just became sold out for Jesus, and, and people knew that.
01:04:01.666 --> 01:04:03.076
I couldn't have done it without Him.
01:04:03.106 --> 01:04:09.985
I couldn't have done it without my Bible and reading the Word and watching, um, you know, preachers and going to church.
01:04:10.346 --> 01:04:19.266
I mean, I think some people would go to the law, law library to get, to get out and work on their cases, and, and that's all they did was go to the law library.
01:04:19.266 --> 01:04:20.155
They didn't go to church.
01:04:20.155 --> 01:04:21.885
So I was more going to church.
01:04:21.985 --> 01:04:24.385
I was one of those,'cause you have different types of people.
01:04:24.675 --> 01:04:30.766
You have people that are all into the law, and they're all into, you know, helping other people get out of prison, and I couldn't.
01:04:30.956 --> 01:04:32.775
That stressed me out.
01:04:32.775 --> 01:04:34.525
I never read my transcripts.
01:04:34.576 --> 01:04:38.965
First of all, I never read those'cause it w- it made me sick where I could probably throw up.
01:04:38.976 --> 01:04:38.996
Yeah.
01:04:39.326 --> 01:04:45.876
So I would say,"You know what, God, this is your battle." I didn't even try to work or help myself get out of prison.
01:04:45.876 --> 01:04:51.346
I knew I had to depend totally on God and 100%, and He was the only one that could fight my battle.
01:04:51.706 --> 01:04:53.275
And people would say I was crazy.
01:04:53.295 --> 01:04:55.255
You, you know,"You need to read your transcripts.
01:04:55.255 --> 01:04:56.635
You need to go to the law library.
01:04:56.635 --> 01:05:02.992
You need to figure out how you need to fight to get your freedom." And, um, none of that, I couldn't do it.
01:05:03.052 --> 01:05:06.771
It was only but God had my battle and He was gonna fight it for me.
01:05:06.771 --> 01:05:09.192
And I would do the work that He wanted me to do there in prison.
01:05:09.192 --> 01:05:09.822
That's what I did.
01:05:09.831 --> 01:05:12.001
It was like a, I made a bargain with Him.
01:05:12.001 --> 01:05:15.692
"I'll do what you want me to do here, and you do what you need to do to get me out." Wow.
01:05:15.751 --> 01:05:21.092
And then that's just how I f- how I was making it and survived every day.
01:05:21.891 --> 01:05:25.282
Man, that is such a picture of just no self-reliance.
01:05:25.282 --> 01:05:27.492
Like, literally just clinging to the Lord.
01:05:27.512 --> 01:05:28.141
Totally,
01:05:28.152 --> 01:05:28.181
yes.
01:05:28.192 --> 01:05:29.871
I mean, wow.
01:05:29.871 --> 01:05:30.902
All the way.
01:05:32.527 --> 01:05:36.878
And can you give some examples of how g- God used you in the Aglow Prison Ministry?
01:05:37.688 --> 01:05:40.978
They would come in and, um, speak over my life.
01:05:41.007 --> 01:05:44.637
They would have a Bible study once a year only, but they would come in.
01:05:44.648 --> 01:05:48.007
They'd have a worship on, on a Monday night and do worship.
01:05:48.018 --> 01:05:50.918
But the first five years, I couldn't go out of my room at night.
01:05:50.918 --> 01:05:55.038
I was locked in my cell from dinner all the way till the next morning.
01:05:55.057 --> 01:05:58.257
So I was treated like a real criminal for the first five years.
01:05:58.577 --> 01:06:04.557
So after I got off of close A, which was the five-year mark, I, I felt like there was a little freedom.
01:06:04.557 --> 01:06:05.887
Then I could go to church at night.
01:06:05.887 --> 01:06:16.177
I could go to church more during the day,'cause if, if the church fell on the time for my yard at the time that I was locked in my cell every day from 11:00 to 12:00, I couldn't go to church.
01:06:16.177 --> 01:06:17.518
I'd be locked in my cell.
01:06:17.858 --> 01:06:25.097
And everybody else could do whatever they wanted to do, but I couldn't because I had a, um, a very serious, um, life sentence.
01:06:25.097 --> 01:06:31.898
Life without the possibility of parole was, was, um, s- was like a, um, a serious crime, so they had to count you every day.
01:06:31.898 --> 01:06:40.927
And then they would escort me whenever I had to go to the main yard somewhere, or if I, or if I had to go to the doctor's or anywhere, they would escort me, you know, like a criminal.
01:06:40.938 --> 01:06:40.947
Mm.
01:06:40.947 --> 01:06:41.007
Mm.
01:06:41.007 --> 01:06:45.878
So everybody would always see me being escorted, so they knew I had life without the possibility of parole.
01:06:45.878 --> 01:06:45.887
Mm.
01:06:45.898 --> 01:06:49.458
But I felt like that was the way God's, God protected me.
01:06:49.467 --> 01:06:49.487
Wow.
01:06:49.498 --> 01:06:55.947
Because when you have life without the possibility of parole, people were scared, and they didn't wanna mess with me.
01:06:55.978 --> 01:07:11.288
And I was, like, 120 pounds and- I mean, I got messed with a few times, but I'm telling you, that kinda kept a, like, it was like a protection from God- Wow with life without, because nobody said,"Oh, she's there for a serious, serious crime.
01:07:11.307 --> 01:07:12.927
She's crazy," you know?
01:07:12.938 --> 01:07:12.947
Mm.
01:07:13.347 --> 01:07:14.148
So yeah.
01:07:14.657 --> 01:07:22.398
S- I mean, look how the Lord redemptively, you know, sort of- Yeah, he is good flipped the script by giving you a bodyguard almost wherever you went.
01:07:22.398 --> 01:07:24.657
I mean, this is- Yeah Lord, I just, this, like, I just- It's
01:07:24.657 --> 01:07:24.838
crazy.
01:07:25.458 --> 01:07:26.507
Oh my gosh.
01:07:27.117 --> 01:07:30.878
And, and so just, but so then did you become a leader in the Aglow ministry?
01:07:30.898 --> 01:07:33.478
Like, did he, did, how, how did the Lord use you there?
01:07:33.478 --> 01:07:34.713
Were you the Bible study leader eventually?
01:07:34.713 --> 01:07:34.858
Well, when I
01:07:34.978 --> 01:07:39.577
got out, I became, when I got out, I became a, um, on board with them.
01:07:39.577 --> 01:07:49.518
But while I was in the, um, Aglow, um, Prison Ministry, they would just come, and there was a woman called, um, Earlene Lemming, and she was this amazing woman.
01:07:49.527 --> 01:07:50.827
She's, like, 80.
01:07:50.878 --> 01:07:51.987
No, she's 70 now.
01:07:52.237 --> 01:08:03.027
She would come visit me and some of the other lifers every other month, and she would come for, like, a couple hours, speak over us and put her hands over our, our shoulders or over our heads and speak scriptures.
01:08:03.027 --> 01:08:08.157
And she always believed that I would get out one day, and she believed- Wow that God would bring the truth out.
01:08:08.157 --> 01:08:23.225
So she was kinda like my mentor, and I call her my angel because, um- Before I got out, she sent me a, a little card with a letter, and the card said that,"I know you're the next lifer to get out." And see- Mm a life without the possibly of parole, you never get out.
01:08:23.256 --> 01:08:25.216
They say you go home in a pine box, so.
01:08:25.605 --> 01:08:33.956
But she said,"You're gonna be the next one." I was the first LWOP to actually get out of, um, the women's prison, um, up north at CCWF.
01:08:33.966 --> 01:08:36.975
So, um, LWOPs never went home.
01:08:36.975 --> 01:08:39.786
I was the first one, and she believed that I would.
01:08:39.786 --> 01:08:51.326
And, and I really believe because of a Globe Prison Ministry, and they spoke so much into my life, and I saw the Jesus and the, I, they never judged us, and I saw the love of Jesus in each and every one of them.
01:08:51.326 --> 01:08:55.496
And just the way they carried themselves, they were just so amazing, so anointed.
01:08:55.945 --> 01:08:58.916
But they, um, they spoke it into my life.
01:08:58.945 --> 01:09:05.235
And I re- I believe I'm here today because of that woman that spoke on my life and said I would go home one day, and then that card.
01:09:05.246 --> 01:09:10.905
And then three- Wow th- no, two months later, I got a, a docket saying I was gonna go to, um, court.
01:09:10.935 --> 01:09:17.855
So what she spoke over me- Wow on that, the letter and the card, the, a few months later I got a docket to go back to court.
01:09:18.355 --> 01:09:19.740
So- Wow you know, it- And
01:09:19.740 --> 01:09:21.076
that started the pr- wow
01:09:21.485 --> 01:09:21.815
Yeah.
01:09:21.815 --> 01:09:31.155
It started the whole process with the innocent, um, matters, and Deidre O'Connor, my attorney, that actually was working on my case for, like, 10 months, and I gave a miracle.
01:09:31.615 --> 01:09:34.615
You know, I, and it was like I gave her to a miracle in 10 months.
01:09:34.626 --> 01:09:38.786
She worked on my case probably less than 10 months, and then I got out.
01:09:39.195 --> 01:09:40.775
It was- Wow it was total miracle.
01:09:40.775 --> 01:09:41.685
It was totally God.
01:09:42.015 --> 01:09:43.576
But God used her, you know?
01:09:44.988 --> 01:09:45.238
Oh my gosh.
01:09:45.257 --> 01:09:48.047
And this was at the Innocence Projects or Innocence Matters?
01:09:48.137 --> 01:09:49.618
Innocent, um, Matters.
01:09:49.627 --> 01:09:49.648
Yeah.
01:09:49.768 --> 01:09:50.738
Deirdre O'Connor.
01:09:50.738 --> 01:09:50.747
Yeah.
01:09:50.747 --> 01:09:50.978
Yeah.
01:09:50.978 --> 01:09:51.948
Innocence Matters.
01:09:52.047 --> 01:09:53.778
She was her own nonprofit.
01:09:54.188 --> 01:09:58.578
Innocence Project is more of a huger, um, network, and they're very big.
01:09:58.587 --> 01:09:58.597
Mm.
01:09:58.948 --> 01:10:02.478
And they have, um, they have a couple in each state.
01:10:03.057 --> 01:10:10.738
And then with her, she was the only one here in the Torrance area, and then she would only work on cases in the, you know, in the California area.
01:10:11.328 --> 01:10:16.278
I mean, that woman must have had the prophetic gifting because the fact that she spoke that over you.
01:10:16.287 --> 01:10:16.587
Mm-hmm.
01:10:16.587 --> 01:10:18.268
They became my angel pit bull.
01:10:18.988 --> 01:10:25.488
Because she was an angel, and then she ended up being like a pit bull'cause she yelled at the, um, the DAs.
01:10:25.507 --> 01:10:32.108
And I mean, she was yelling at them- like,"You better give her factual innocent." And then I, I thought I was gonna go back to jail the way she was talking to them.
01:10:32.537 --> 01:10:37.797
But, um, they, they got me factual innocent within two weeks when I got out, I got factual innocent.
01:10:37.797 --> 01:10:40.738
And then some people, it takes years or months.
01:10:41.118 --> 01:10:45.957
But two weeks, two weeks after I got out, the judge said I was innocent, and,"I'm sorry, Ms.
01:10:45.967 --> 01:10:53.578
Mellen, the system failed you." And then two weeks later, I was back in court with factual innocent, which is very unusual, very quick.
01:10:53.618 --> 01:10:53.898
Very...
01:10:53.908 --> 01:10:55.127
It was a miracle.
01:10:55.177 --> 01:10:56.868
You know- I mean- it was God working with her.
01:10:57.858 --> 01:10:58.207
That's...
01:10:58.297 --> 01:10:59.268
I am a lawyer.
01:10:59.307 --> 01:11:00.368
I'm a former lawyer.
01:11:00.377 --> 01:11:03.314
And in fact, I worked at the DA- DA's office in law school.
01:11:03.314 --> 01:11:03.698
Oh, so you
01:11:03.698 --> 01:11:03.847
know.
01:11:03.858 --> 01:11:04.148
Yeah.
01:11:04.177 --> 01:11:04.728
And I...
01:11:04.757 --> 01:11:05.167
Yeah.
01:11:05.177 --> 01:11:12.847
So I mean, just hearing this story, I know just the standard of law, how difficult it is to overturn a conviction.
01:11:12.898 --> 01:11:14.257
I mean, I'll let people read the book.
01:11:14.257 --> 01:11:15.837
Again, we don't have to, to go there.
01:11:15.837 --> 01:11:18.698
But it's just, it literally was a miracle from the Lord.
01:11:18.728 --> 01:11:19.688
I mean, it just was.
01:11:19.698 --> 01:11:19.728
Mm-hmm.
01:11:19.738 --> 01:11:21.957
This, the, the s- the speed with which you...
01:11:22.177 --> 01:11:25.898
I mean, let's not say speed because you were in prison for 17 years, right?
01:11:25.908 --> 01:11:26.377
Yeah.
01:11:26.427 --> 01:11:26.908
Right.
01:11:27.087 --> 01:11:27.887
It took her-
01:11:28.007 --> 01:11:28.358
But-
01:11:28.368 --> 01:11:29.108
and God, yeah
01:11:29.318 --> 01:11:33.717
once God stepped in and once God was ready- Yeah he moved so fast.
01:11:33.738 --> 01:11:34.057
And the-
01:11:34.057 --> 01:11:34.837
With her, yeah.
01:11:34.837 --> 01:11:36.148
With Deirdre O'Connor.
01:11:36.167 --> 01:11:40.462
She, he, he knew she was the girl, the girl that was, he was, that she was gonna work with.
01:11:40.462 --> 01:11:41.398
That's the attorney, right?
01:11:41.778 --> 01:11:42.057
Huh?
01:11:42.158 --> 01:11:42.478
Yeah.
01:11:42.547 --> 01:11:43.698
Was that the attorney?
01:11:43.717 --> 01:11:44.137
Yeah.
01:11:44.137 --> 01:11:44.172
Yeah.
01:11:44.172 --> 01:11:44.207
Yeah.
01:11:44.207 --> 01:11:47.037
Deirdre O'Connor is my attorney, and- Amazing she's amazing.
01:11:47.087 --> 01:11:47.518
Yeah.
01:11:48.605 --> 01:12:08.115
So I wanna step back here and talk about one of my favorite verses, which is 2 Corinthians 4:17, which says,"Our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal weight of glory that far outweighs them all." I'm wondering how eternity started to feel more real to you in prison, to the extent that it did.
01:12:08.145 --> 01:12:17.485
Like, did it, did you feel like you were sort of excited about heaven and eternity, or was that not really part of your experience at that time?
01:12:17.496 --> 01:12:19.185
You were just like,"Lord, get me out."
01:12:19.296 --> 01:12:19.836
Yeah.
01:12:20.315 --> 01:12:31.055
I think a lot of times we don't focus on the eternity, and then I really believe I, I had, like, I had a passport to, you know, like a citizen of heaven.
01:12:31.055 --> 01:12:39.326
I became a citizen of heav- Yes and, of heaven in prison, and it's like a passport I had because, because I sold, I sold out and I gave my life to Jesus.
01:12:39.805 --> 01:12:50.456
And I think, um, eternity became more real to me as I, you know, just learning the Bible, reading the Bible, going to church, listening to, um, preaching on TV.
01:12:50.456 --> 01:12:53.046
But eternity became like, wow.
01:12:53.046 --> 01:13:03.536
And then there's times I can honestly say, and it's funny that you s- you asked me that, because I feel like, Lord, if this is where I'm supposed to be for the rest of my life, I think I'd rather be in eternity.
01:13:03.536 --> 01:13:05.216
I think I'd rather just go home.
01:13:05.225 --> 01:13:06.006
Yeah.
01:13:06.006 --> 01:13:10.576
Because, you know, but I never really ever wanted to, you know, kill myself or do anything crazy- Mm-mm like that.
01:13:10.845 --> 01:13:16.070
But I just said,"Can I just go to sleep and, you know, and then I don't wake up, and then be in heaven?" Yeah.
01:13:16.070 --> 01:13:19.586
And just not have to go through the pain and the suffering that I was going through.
01:13:19.826 --> 01:13:25.966
And I had those little talks with God, and then eternity sounded a lot better than spending the rest of my life in prison, of course.
01:13:25.985 --> 01:13:26.405
Yeah.
01:13:26.405 --> 01:13:26.985
Right.
01:13:26.985 --> 01:13:27.485
Right.
01:13:27.496 --> 01:13:43.996
So it, and then it became real, and then even now I think of it, but now I'm so happy in having my kids back, and it's like I'm thinking,"Yeah, I wanna wait another 10 or 20 years to do eternity.""I want this time with my kids." And then people say,"Oh, Jesus is coming back soon," and I'm like-"Well, just wait a little longer.
01:13:43.996 --> 01:13:48.655
Let me have some more time with my kids." So, you know, and it's, and I'm being real, you know?
01:13:48.655 --> 01:13:48.751
Yeah.
01:13:48.751 --> 01:13:56.666
But a lot of people say,"Oh, Jesus comes." Well, I don't really want him to come this quick'cause I still wanna enjoy my, my grandchildren now too, and my children.
01:13:56.666 --> 01:13:56.876
Yeah.
01:13:56.876 --> 01:13:59.416
I missed out a lot, so I have only been out-
01:13:59.435 --> 01:13:59.845
Yeah
01:13:59.935 --> 01:14:05.416
12 years now, so at least let me do another 17 years that I missed out on, you know, before you come back.
01:14:06.145 --> 01:14:06.645
Right.
01:14:06.676 --> 01:14:07.025
Right.
01:14:07.046 --> 01:14:09.645
No, I, I totally understand that sentiment.
01:14:09.666 --> 01:14:10.655
It's, it's...
01:14:10.746 --> 01:14:13.586
And, you know, we want the double portion for you.
01:14:13.586 --> 01:14:15.145
Like, you missed out on the 17.
01:14:15.145 --> 01:14:15.176
Right.
01:14:15.185 --> 01:14:18.405
Let's get, you know, 50 years here with your grandkids.
01:14:18.416 --> 01:14:18.435
Yeah.
01:14:18.895 --> 01:14:19.905
Um, but okay.
01:14:19.905 --> 01:14:24.065
So in 2014, you finally walk out of prison.
01:14:24.166 --> 01:14:31.565
I mean, I got chills reading that part in your book, and you know, it reminded me of Psalm 17:2, which says,"Examine and exonerate me.
01:14:31.576 --> 01:14:36.706
Vindicate me and show the world I'm innocent." And what was that moment like for you?
01:14:36.735 --> 01:14:47.176
I mean, was it like the minute you heard the news, you, you know, that you were factually innocent, did you just bawl, or were you just praising the Lord, or how did you react?
01:14:48.286 --> 01:14:50.576
Well, there's a picture of me on the newspaper.
01:14:50.605 --> 01:15:02.815
The f- I have a lot of, um, articles where I'm on the front page of the newspaper, because in 2014 they have, um, the, the top 10, um, stories in 2014.
01:15:03.015 --> 01:15:11.935
So, um, so at the end of that, of December, they had me on the front page because I was one of the best, greatest stories of the 10 stories.
01:15:11.935 --> 01:15:16.855
They had other people around me, but I was like the number one story of 2014.
01:15:17.256 --> 01:15:19.695
So that was exciting to see that.
01:15:19.695 --> 01:15:45.046
But when I heard about the, um, when I went to court in, and two weeks after I got out, and I actually s- heard the judge say,"I, I'm giving you factual innocent," There, um, I, I just wanted to cry and bawl,'cause I was thinking,"That is the, the, the greatest thing that you could ever receive, is factual innocent." Because it's, you know, it doesn't happen all the time, but that's where your record's wiped out clear.
01:15:45.275 --> 01:16:00.576
And then I'm thinking,"But do, do they, do they know that the blood of Jesus wi- wiped out my, my, um- Yeah my whole past?" You know, we're, we're wiped out and, and clean when we ask Jesus in our heart, and the blood of Jesus cleanse us from, from everything.
01:16:00.805 --> 01:16:05.996
And I'm thinking,"Wow." But I did give, you know, my attorney and the judge and the factual innocent.
01:16:06.025 --> 01:16:10.036
But then I'm thinking,"But Jesus, your blood wipes it all out," you know?
01:16:10.036 --> 01:16:10.435
And then-
01:16:10.475 --> 01:16:10.826
Yeah
01:16:10.895 --> 01:16:19.865
I think that, um, they have a picture of me in the newspaper, um, where I'm looking up, I'm totally looking up in the sky, and it says that I got factual innocent.
01:16:19.865 --> 01:16:23.326
But, you know, I'm looking up in the sky'cause I'm just giving God the glory because-
01:16:23.395 --> 01:16:23.676
Oh
01:16:23.716 --> 01:16:27.996
you know, even though my attorney's standing there next to me, and then I think my nephew was in that picture.
01:16:28.386 --> 01:16:44.996
And yes, I was so excited, but when they took a picture of me, you could see I'm just looking up, and I'm totally looking up in heaven, and I just say,"God, you deserve the glory." You know, this is something that I think he did des- deserve all the glory in, in everything in my situation, you know?
01:16:44.996 --> 01:16:50.905
And Deirdre O- O'Connor, that my attorney, was, was amazing and, and, but she doesn't get God's glory.
01:16:50.935 --> 01:16:52.336
Nobody gets God's glory.
01:16:52.345 --> 01:16:52.365
Yeah.
01:16:52.365 --> 01:16:53.536
He don't share his glory.
01:16:54.775 --> 01:16:55.055
Man.
01:16:55.395 --> 01:16:55.676
Wow
01:16:55.676 --> 01:17:03.435
But she did do a great job, and I will al- I always tell her,"You're my BFF,"'cause, you know, she became my BFF because she got me out of prison.
01:17:04.716 --> 01:17:05.145
Yeah.
01:17:05.145 --> 01:17:06.225
Oh my gosh.
01:17:06.626 --> 01:17:14.155
I mean, did freedom feel as immediate internally as it was externally, or did your soul have to kinda catch up a bit?
01:17:14.605 --> 01:17:20.185
Yeah, it took, it took probably, I don't know, two or three years, I wanna say, where...
01:17:20.506 --> 01:17:22.275
'Cause it was like, I'm really free.
01:17:22.286 --> 01:17:30.645
You know, like, I had to pinch myself, and I had to- Yeah you know, there was things I had to learn, how to use my phone, how to lock a door.
01:17:30.655 --> 01:17:30.676
Yeah.
01:17:30.685 --> 01:17:33.935
You know, and then everything was so much different.
01:17:33.935 --> 01:17:36.886
I had to learn all these, I didn't even know how to wash my hands.
01:17:36.916 --> 01:17:48.206
I put my hand to touch the water to come out, and I'm like,"Uh, how do you turn the water on, or how do you get a paper towel?" I mean, all these things- Wow you know, that would happen that, um, I didn't know how to work, how to get a Coke out a Coke machine.
01:17:48.216 --> 01:17:52.756
I didn't know how to push the button and make that Coke come out of that Coke machine.
01:17:52.775 --> 01:17:54.095
Everything technology.
01:17:54.105 --> 01:17:54.126
Yeah.
01:17:54.426 --> 01:17:55.996
It's still overwhelming to me.
01:17:56.015 --> 01:17:59.065
I, I kinda get triggered with technology stuff.
01:17:59.305 --> 01:18:01.136
Oh, and then- Yeah the alarm on your car.
01:18:01.136 --> 01:18:08.015
When you get a, a new car, the alarm goes off kinda- Yeah you know, just random, and that freaks me out and scares me.
01:18:08.046 --> 01:18:11.865
So when I get a new car, I say,"Don't put the alarm in there, please.
01:18:11.865 --> 01:18:12.386
I have to-
01:18:12.395 --> 01:18:12.756
Yeah
01:18:12.775 --> 01:18:24.536
go get the alarm taken off." And they'll, they'll put it in there anyways, and I have to go have them take it out because the alarm, um, it, because they do alarms in prison, and as soon as you hear alarm, you have to fall to the ground.
01:18:24.536 --> 01:18:25.805
And it could be pouring down rain.
01:18:25.815 --> 01:18:25.826
Oh.
01:18:25.826 --> 01:18:31.506
It can be out- in 10 degrees, and you have to get on the ground, and if you don't, they'll yell over the loudspeaker,"Get down.
01:18:31.546 --> 01:18:40.586
Get down now." You know, so the alarm is either there's a medical or somebody's fighting, or sometimes there's a, um, they have riots, too, in prison.
01:18:40.586 --> 01:18:42.166
So you know, you have to get down.
01:18:42.166 --> 01:18:49.916
When the cops are running to take care of business, you have to be down on the ground, and the alarm goes off for, like, 10, 15, 20 minutes.
01:18:50.216 --> 01:18:53.515
So alarms really freak me out, but I've gotten better.
01:18:53.515 --> 01:18:58.076
You know, I, I don't get as, they're not as, um, it's not as harsh like it was.
01:18:58.796 --> 01:18:59.286
Hmm.
01:18:59.966 --> 01:19:03.395
Yeah, I mean, I just f- so when you were imprisoned, what was the year?
01:19:03.426 --> 01:19:04.246
19-
01:19:06.203 --> 01:19:07.134
97 when I went
01:19:07.134 --> 01:19:07.604
in'97.
01:19:07.644 --> 01:19:07.814
And
01:19:07.814 --> 01:19:07.923
then
01:19:07.923 --> 01:19:07.993
you-
01:19:07.993 --> 01:19:08.904
I went in in'99.
01:19:09.224 --> 01:19:09.503
Yeah, in 199- I
01:19:09.503 --> 01:19:15.134
went in in'99, I got out So the technology when you got out was just totally different.
01:19:15.134 --> 01:19:15.315
Oh my gosh.
01:19:15.315 --> 01:19:16.264
What was it, 2015?
01:19:16.264 --> 01:19:16.564
I had a beeper when
01:19:16.564 --> 01:19:17.054
I went in.
01:19:17.333 --> 01:19:17.673
Yeah.
01:19:17.764 --> 01:19:18.344
Oh my gosh.
01:19:18.344 --> 01:19:18.604
I had a
01:19:18.613 --> 01:19:27.894
beeper, and I knew what a beeper was, but I didn't My son hadn't handed me the phone as soon as I walked down the stairs, and all the cameras and all the news channels were there.
01:19:28.123 --> 01:19:37.344
And then he handed me the phone, and I'm like,"What's this?" I didn't even know what a phone was,'cause there were some illegal phones in prison where people would- Oh get ahold of phones.
01:19:37.344 --> 01:19:42.904
But I never saw one'cause I never wanted to ha- touch it or have anything to do with it,'cause I didn't wanna get in trouble.
01:19:42.913 --> 01:19:43.993
So yeah.
01:19:43.993 --> 01:19:44.064
Wow.
01:19:44.064 --> 01:19:45.514
So I never knew what a phone was.
01:19:45.514 --> 01:19:48.033
And now with the phone, it's still overwhelming.
01:19:48.033 --> 01:19:49.344
It's a lot to learn.
01:19:49.354 --> 01:19:50.823
It's smarter than me, I know that.
01:19:50.833 --> 01:19:52.194
That phone's smarter than me.
01:19:53.083 --> 01:19:53.384
Wow.
01:19:54.774 --> 01:19:58.884
So I'm wondering, like at this point, how did you talk to God?
01:19:58.894 --> 01:20:10.884
Was it like, was there s- any spiritual disorientation, like,"All right, Lord, what do we do together now that we're out of prison together now?" Like, what, like how did you, or, or how did your relationship with God change?
01:20:10.913 --> 01:20:12.944
I guess that's, if it did.
01:20:14.268 --> 01:20:17.698
I think it, I think it was, I, I just kept thanking him.
01:20:17.698 --> 01:20:26.007
I was just so- Yeah thankful, and I had such a attitude of gratitude because, and then just thanking him, thanking him for bringing my family back.
01:20:26.028 --> 01:20:30.118
Thank- thanking him for, you know, letting me get out, you know?
01:20:30.118 --> 01:20:35.118
And I knew- Yeah I, I was just, I think I was just high on just life itself.
01:20:35.118 --> 01:20:43.507
And then even- Yeah now, to this day, I'm living my best life and, you know- Right and I don't let, I don't let the enemy, you know, take me down.
01:20:43.807 --> 01:20:57.408
I mean, if he does, if something's going on or my granddaughter gets sick or in the hospital, I know how to overcome it- Yeah and not, and I rejoice, and I thank the Lord, and I know that she's gonna come home that day, or she's not gonna be there, you know, for days and days.
01:20:57.408 --> 01:21:06.728
Like, I'm learning how to just overcome it and pray like the victory already happened, like already thanking him that you already got this, and I'm praying in the victory.
01:21:06.728 --> 01:21:10.078
I don't pray like a, like a, a, um, a widow.
01:21:10.078 --> 01:21:12.488
I pray like a bride because I'm his bride.
01:21:12.488 --> 01:21:14.578
I don't tell people I'm single, I'm not married.
01:21:14.597 --> 01:21:15.868
No, I'm married to Jesus.
01:21:15.887 --> 01:21:17.318
I, I'm a bride.
01:21:17.318 --> 01:21:22.858
I'm his beloved, and I, I think as, myself as his daughter of the Most High.
01:21:22.858 --> 01:21:27.097
And I, I say these things out loud and know, I know who I am.
01:21:27.097 --> 01:21:32.797
I know he, he's, he loves me, and he never left me or forsake me those whole 17 years.
01:21:33.137 --> 01:21:39.457
You know, I mean, the, the day I got sentenced, he painted a rainbow in the sky for me that day, and I know that rainbow.
01:21:39.457 --> 01:21:39.837
Wow.
01:21:39.837 --> 01:21:47.328
And I, and I heard this voice, and I'm thinking,"Wow, am I hearing voices?" But I heard a voice'cause I just started walking with the Lord maybe nine months.
01:21:47.587 --> 01:21:50.717
But I heard a voice saying,"I'll never leave you or forsake you.
01:21:51.028 --> 01:22:14.877
I'm gonna be with you." And then that was when I went into the courtroom after I got off the bus, but I saw this huge rainbow, and I'm thinking- Right"Am I hearing voices?" And then I, uh, later I realized that was God's telling me,"I'll never leave you or forsake you, that I, that I'm gonna be with you." And then I went into that courtroom, and the judge said, um, I thought he said 25 to life, but he really said life without the possibility of parole.
01:22:14.908 --> 01:22:23.368
God did not let me hear life without the possibility of parole because he deafened my ears because he wanted me to know I would never do life without the possibility- Yeah of parole.
01:22:23.368 --> 01:22:24.478
And God does that.
01:22:24.478 --> 01:22:25.948
God can do anything.
01:22:26.068 --> 01:22:29.658
He can, you know, I mean, you read the Bible and you hear these stories.
01:22:29.688 --> 01:22:30.398
It's so crazy.
01:22:30.398 --> 01:22:36.207
But he deafened my ears'cause I probably, I might've had a heart attack if they would've said life without the possibility of parole.
01:22:36.488 --> 01:22:40.337
And then six months later, you know, I find out that I did get life without.
01:22:40.537 --> 01:22:42.637
But I was able- Yeah to handle it after that.
01:22:42.688 --> 01:22:44.847
You know, I wouldn't- Right have handled it in that courtroom.
01:22:44.887 --> 01:22:45.807
There's no way.
01:22:46.938 --> 01:22:47.368
Right.
01:22:47.467 --> 01:22:54.148
How do you believe God is good when he allowed you to be unjustly imprisoned for that long a period?
01:22:54.177 --> 01:22:57.537
You know, like, do you, uh, is it just- Yeah He had a purpose.
01:22:57.627 --> 01:22:59.347
He had me there for a purpose.
01:22:59.347 --> 01:23:00.917
Like, is that, does that make sense?
01:23:00.917 --> 01:23:04.528
I think-'Cause a lot of people would have anger- I think be- You know?
01:23:06.238 --> 01:23:09.787
Yeah, I didn't get anger, and I, and I forgave my enemies in the beginning.
01:23:10.078 --> 01:23:10.097
Wow.
01:23:10.268 --> 01:23:13.427
But I think because I had a This is really important to know.
01:23:13.427 --> 01:23:15.398
I had a good relationship with my father.
01:23:15.417 --> 01:23:16.467
I loved my dad.
01:23:16.467 --> 01:23:17.377
My dad loved me.
01:23:17.417 --> 01:23:18.778
I was his little favorite.
01:23:18.807 --> 01:23:22.217
I was his little princess, and, you know, I couldn't do anything wrong.
01:23:22.377 --> 01:23:30.917
So I had a dad growing up that truly loved me, and always, you know, s- would just, he was just a good dad to me, and I knew he loved me.
01:23:31.018 --> 01:23:36.257
So if you're growing up and you have a dad that truly loves you, you'll know your heavenly Father truly loves you.
01:23:36.557 --> 01:23:40.297
But there was women in prison that didn't have a dad, or their dad abused them.
01:23:40.307 --> 01:23:40.337
Right.
01:23:40.648 --> 01:23:47.518
And they didn't know that God really truly loved them like my dad loved me, and I knew that God loved me.
01:23:47.518 --> 01:23:55.627
I think it's important for little girls to know that their daddy loves them in order to have that loving relationship with the Father in heaven.
01:23:55.637 --> 01:24:05.608
So it, and, and until they figure it out or know that, you know, even though that my, maybe my dad didn't love me, but God's love is perfect love, so He's a perfect dad.
01:24:05.778 --> 01:24:13.797
So once they, when I would help some of the women, you know, let them know and, you know, and speak into their life that, that God really truly loves you.
01:24:13.797 --> 01:24:14.608
He's forgiven you.
01:24:14.608 --> 01:24:16.307
He wants you to forgive yourself.
01:24:16.698 --> 01:24:20.587
And that was a life-changing experience for a lot of these women that were in prison.
01:24:20.608 --> 01:24:25.078
But it's so important to know that you are loved by God, and to know His love.
01:24:25.347 --> 01:24:32.747
And I think that's the first step of really having that personal relationship with, you know, with God and with Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
01:24:32.747 --> 01:24:36.887
And then once you have the Holy Spirit, I think you, you don't doubt a lot.
01:24:36.887 --> 01:24:43.127
You, you're not- Mm doubting like maybe in the beginning, because you, you see and you know, and you hear His voice.
01:24:43.127 --> 01:24:46.097
You, it just becomes, it, it, it's a process.
01:24:46.097 --> 01:24:53.278
It's a process that you go through, and it, and it becomes more and more, you know, um, like you, you know your identity's in Jesus.
01:24:53.278 --> 01:24:54.908
You know your DNA's in the blood of Jesus.
01:24:54.938 --> 01:24:56.778
You start knowing who you are.
01:24:56.778 --> 01:25:01.137
You know that, that God brought you, you know, He's bringing you through.
01:25:01.488 --> 01:25:05.377
But I know the enemy is the one that brought me, you know, and did what he...
01:25:05.417 --> 01:25:06.707
I never blamed God.
01:25:06.707 --> 01:25:12.728
I never blamed God, and sometimes I wonder,"Well, why didn't I blame God?" You know, because I was falsely accused.
01:25:13.078 --> 01:25:19.167
But I really b- believe because the love that I had from my father, that I knew that- Yeah my heavenly Father loved me.
01:25:19.408 --> 01:25:25.608
So I think that might have been why I was never angry at God,'cause I was never angry at my dad, right?
01:25:25.608 --> 01:25:27.627
So they- Mm kinda go together.
01:25:27.637 --> 01:25:30.967
You know, your heavenly Father and then the father that, that you're raised with.
01:25:31.547 --> 01:25:31.927
I think-
01:25:31.927 --> 01:25:32.247
Right
01:25:32.257 --> 01:25:32.997
it's a big, um,
01:25:33.507 --> 01:25:33.537
thing.
01:25:33.568 --> 01:25:41.068
So I guess you sort of figured, all right, God is sovereign, so if He's allowing me to stay here, He must have some bigger purposes- Yeah that I can't see yet.
01:25:41.097 --> 01:25:42.287
Is that the theology?
01:25:44.340 --> 01:25:44.350
I
01:25:44.350 --> 01:25:44.770
did
01:25:45.170 --> 01:25:45.340
Yeah.
01:25:45.340 --> 01:25:47.550
I did feel that way, and you're so right.
01:25:47.970 --> 01:25:56.180
I mean, John 9 says that this man was born blind, you know, for, not because his parents sinned or because of his sin, but for the glory of God.
01:25:56.180 --> 01:26:01.439
So it's like the Lord has- Yeah, He has so many purposes that s- we just can't even fathom.
01:26:01.439 --> 01:26:03.539
I mean, He's doing a million things we can't see.
01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:13.109
And, and so- Yeah I'm wondering for you, like, how do you think the Lord u- has used your suffering to bro- to bring Him, to show His glory?
01:26:13.420 --> 01:26:28.079
I mean, I see it in a million ways in your story, just how you minister to other women in prison- Sure how we see God's sovereignty and how, no, He brought justice and showed the justice system that I am gonna exonerate my precious daughter and bring the truth to light.
01:26:28.510 --> 01:26:32.949
But how do you think your suffering has brought, you know, brought Go- God glory?
01:26:34.170 --> 01:26:43.039
I think my, my pain, I want to say, after the first five years and I got delivered from depression, and I think my pain became purpose.
01:26:43.060 --> 01:26:57.420
And then I think my pain became my power because of who I knew I was in Christ, and because of, you know, seeking him and knowing that he, that he had me, and that I really, truly wanted to give him glory, and I wanted to have a good attitude.
01:26:57.420 --> 01:27:00.170
I wanted to be, I, I wanted to be positive.
01:27:00.170 --> 01:27:09.640
I didn't wanna be like some of the other women that were, that were very miserable and just negative and, and like they didn't even care, you know,'cause they thought they were never gonna go home.
01:27:09.640 --> 01:27:11.390
And, and I never had that.
01:27:11.420 --> 01:27:13.819
I always wanted to have faith.
01:27:13.819 --> 01:27:18.239
And everything I had, I wanted to have and know that my faith was in God.
01:27:18.239 --> 01:27:39.420
I knew that my joy was in, in God and, you know, and the joy of the Lord was my strength, and I knew that, you know, everything that, that was trying to take me down, I knew that I had a life sentencing, but I c- I made my life sentence, I made it really my friend so I didn't get miserable or, you know- Mm be, you know, you know, just, um, how can I...
01:27:39.470 --> 01:27:40.119
Powerless.
01:27:40.310 --> 01:27:45.670
I wanted it to, I wanted God to know that I, I came and I met my best friend, Jesus.
01:27:45.770 --> 01:27:48.720
And everything that I went through- Mm was to bring me closer to God.
01:27:48.750 --> 01:27:54.279
Everything that, um, you know, that the trial that I went through, I felt like I was in the fire.
01:27:54.279 --> 01:28:00.680
And now when I look back on it, I go,"Jesus was the fire in me." It was, I was in the fire- Yeah but he didn't let nobody burn me.
01:28:00.680 --> 01:28:01.750
The enemy couldn't burn me.
01:28:01.750 --> 01:28:02.829
Nobody could burn me.
01:28:03.199 --> 01:28:08.859
I mean, it was like he had me, and he told me that day on the bus,"I, I'll, I'll be with you.
01:28:08.859 --> 01:28:10.260
I'll never leave you or forsake you." Mm.
01:28:10.260 --> 01:28:11.310
"I'll be with you." Wow.
01:28:11.310 --> 01:28:15.250
And I thought, you know, and that really stuck into my, my mind.
01:28:15.250 --> 01:28:18.909
And he said,"If he's gonna be with you," and he was with me every single day.
01:28:19.250 --> 01:28:20.270
What I didn't...
01:28:20.340 --> 01:28:22.250
I turned my worry into worship.
01:28:22.250 --> 01:28:23.720
I just said,"I'm gonna worship you.
01:28:23.720 --> 01:28:26.039
I am not gonna worry,"'cause it, he, it's a sin.
01:28:26.380 --> 01:28:27.630
And I said,"I'm gonna have faith.
01:28:27.630 --> 01:28:33.119
I'm not gonna have fear." But it took me years to get delivered from fear, because it is very fearful in prison.
01:28:33.130 --> 01:28:33.140
Mm.
01:28:33.149 --> 01:28:35.829
And there is a lot of crazy women in there.
01:28:35.829 --> 01:28:42.390
But once I realized that fear didn't come from God, that it came from the enemy, I turned my fear into faith.
01:28:42.390 --> 01:28:43.699
Everything that came out of my...
01:28:44.020 --> 01:28:45.859
or I didn't even let it come out of my mouth.
01:28:45.859 --> 01:28:53.800
It came in my brain, something negative, I would turn into something positive and I would speak something positive over it, because I feel like that was my power.
01:28:53.810 --> 01:28:53.819
Mm.
01:28:54.090 --> 01:29:11.199
And it was God, you know, using me and his power in me- Yeah and the Holy Spirit, you know, and to stay positive and to have a good outlook on everything, and not to be bitter, and to be powerful and, um, you know, and not to be im- You know, I wanted to be empowered by him.
01:29:11.199 --> 01:29:15.619
And so I think he gives what we ask for, so I would ask for it.
01:29:16.916 --> 01:29:19.086
How did the Lord deliver you from depression?
01:29:19.086 --> 01:29:31.756
'Cause I think this is important,'cause it's like if you could get over that mental state in this in- incredibly depressing situation of being in prison wrongly, like how did the Lord deliver you from that?
01:29:31.756 --> 01:29:36.916
Was it just someone prayed over you, or was it a long process of shedding that stronghold?
01:29:36.926 --> 01:29:46.655
I, I really believe it was a process, and it was like the first five years being locked in my cell twice a day, and then being set free from that.
01:29:46.706 --> 01:29:54.326
And then just little by little, after those five, first five years, depression set in, and I just, I looked depressed.
01:29:54.326 --> 01:29:55.345
I was depressed.
01:29:55.345 --> 01:29:56.105
I can't lie.
01:29:56.105 --> 01:29:57.015
I can't fake it.
01:29:57.886 --> 01:30:11.525
But when the Spirit of the living God came in me, and then having my TV, reading the Word, going to church, getting set free from being locked in my room every day, I felt there was a little bit of some freedom or something where God was working.
01:30:11.525 --> 01:30:19.735
And then every, I would always say,"God, I know I'm gonna go home this year." Every year I would tell God I'm gonna go home, and I, you know, and you can't tell God what to do.
01:30:19.765 --> 01:30:22.565
But I wasn't, that wasn't a good thing to do.
01:30:22.935 --> 01:30:27.666
But it, it kept me thinking,"Okay, I'm gonna go home this year, so let me just be joyful.
01:30:27.685 --> 01:30:30.536
Let me just be, you know, let me just know I'm gonna go home.
01:30:30.805 --> 01:30:33.136
Everything's gonna be okay." And I said that to my kids.
01:30:33.136 --> 01:30:45.435
My son told me not too long ago, he goes,"Mom, you told me every year you were coming home." He goes,"And I just got, I kinda got upset and a little angry that you would s- keep saying you were gonna come home, and you never came home." And then-
01:30:45.485 --> 01:30:45.796
Mm
01:30:45.805 --> 01:30:47.645
so he was bro- he was broken.
01:30:47.655 --> 01:30:49.985
My son took it worse than my daughters.
01:30:50.025 --> 01:30:51.815
But he wouldn't even talk about his mom.
01:30:52.136 --> 01:31:03.405
And it's in the book where- Mm I think to give him some of the, the really, it's a really great story with my son, with, um, you know, where he, nobody knew he had a mom.
01:31:03.426 --> 01:31:04.775
He wouldn't even talk about his mom.
01:31:04.775 --> 01:31:04.855
Mm.
01:31:04.855 --> 01:31:06.216
'Cause my daughter came home.
01:31:06.475 --> 01:31:11.065
When they sentenced me to life without the possibility of parole, we're giving all the good stuff in the book.
01:31:11.515 --> 01:31:18.166
She came home that day and told both Jessica and Donnie,"Your mom's never coming home." I mean, oh, my gosh.
01:31:18.445 --> 01:31:26.315
She, this da- and then tomorrow we're gonna share, I'm gonna share in my backyard my testimony with about, I don't know, 40 or 50 women with Aglow.
01:31:26.746 --> 01:31:29.836
But, uh, my daughters are gonna be there, and they're gonna share a little something.
01:31:29.836 --> 01:31:36.305
I told Julie,"I want you to share that," because people don't realize it's not just me that's suffering, the, our children suffer.
01:31:36.466 --> 01:31:36.485
Yeah.
01:31:36.485 --> 01:31:39.296
And the things they do to your kids, it's, it's heartbreaking.
01:31:39.996 --> 01:31:40.636
Right.
01:31:41.225 --> 01:31:43.786
Yeah, I can't imagine what your children walked through.
01:31:43.786 --> 01:31:51.626
I mean, uh, I saw- Yeah in the book a bit, but it's just, thank God that the Lord sustained them and, you know, was with all of you.
01:31:51.886 --> 01:31:55.485
The Apostle Paul talks about how his chains served to advance the Gospel.
01:31:55.815 --> 01:32:00.445
Do you see your own, you know, prison chains, if you will, as doing that?
01:32:00.445 --> 01:32:06.876
Like, do you see God flipping something so evil into something so good, and perhaps to save lives?
01:32:08.087 --> 01:32:14.818
I see, well, the last time I shared my testimony at, um, church, they had these long chains that look real.
01:32:14.818 --> 01:32:16.408
I, I actually have one now.
01:32:16.728 --> 01:32:21.858
But I actually went up there and I told them I'm, you know, that I'm here to break the chains.
01:32:21.887 --> 01:32:28.518
I think, and then there was another time I just shared recently, and I was pulling the chain apart, and the chain just flew everywhere.
01:32:28.518 --> 01:32:31.908
And everybody, people got hit by the little piece of the chain.
01:32:32.198 --> 01:32:35.217
And then I said,"I guess God's breaking some chains tonight." Oh.
01:32:35.228 --> 01:32:45.137
And, and it was just And then they asked, they asked me,"Did you plan that, Mellen?" I said,"I didn't plan nothing." I go,"That was the Holy Spirit." But God is gonna use me to break some chains.
01:32:45.238 --> 01:32:53.778
And, um, tomorrow he's gonna use me to set the captives free because if I can be free in prison, there's no excuse for us to be free out here.
01:32:53.778 --> 01:33:00.207
And, you know, I can testify and I can witness that I was totally set free in prison, and I have shoes to prove it.
01:33:00.207 --> 01:33:05.097
And when I show my shoes, everybody just, everybody wants to hold the shoes, and I pass them around.
01:33:05.097 --> 01:33:09.287
But, and they wanna, I think they wanna feel my freedom, but we all have it.
01:33:09.297 --> 01:33:11.618
It's when the Son sets you free, you're free indeed.
01:33:11.618 --> 01:33:13.078
And- Oh and it's in your heart.
01:33:13.087 --> 01:33:14.618
Your greatest freedom is in your heart.
01:33:14.618 --> 01:33:16.268
It has nothing to do with your address.
01:33:16.268 --> 01:33:19.528
So if you say,"Well, I live in America, I'm free," no.
01:33:19.648 --> 01:33:23.608
If you're free, if you have Jesus Christ living in your heart, that's the greatest freedom.
01:33:23.608 --> 01:33:25.948
It is not just America, you know?
01:33:25.948 --> 01:33:31.698
And I- Mm I think God always wants me to say that, that just because you live in America, you're not free.
01:33:32.047 --> 01:33:34.898
You're actually free when the, when the Son sets you free.
01:33:34.898 --> 01:33:37.507
And that's your true greatest freedom in your heart.
01:33:37.837 --> 01:33:42.387
And then that's when the Holy Spirit, and you walk in your freedom, and you know you're free.
01:33:42.738 --> 01:33:48.828
And it's a life-changing, it's a transformation, and, and it redeems you to have that greatest freedom.
01:33:48.847 --> 01:33:52.047
I love it, and I know God's gonna use me for that.
01:33:52.590 --> 01:33:55.600
I can't even imagine how he's gonna do it, but that's him.
01:33:55.600 --> 01:33:57.340
I, I have to get out of the way, right?
01:33:57.729 --> 01:33:58.090
Yep.
01:33:58.100 --> 01:33:58.220
And let him do it.
01:33:58.220 --> 01:34:02.270
I mean, it's Genesis 50:20, what Satan intends for evil, God intends for good.
01:34:02.270 --> 01:34:09.260
Is in for the saving of many lives, and I just believe that your testimony is just gonna break so many chains.
01:34:09.270 --> 01:34:18.800
You've lived through captivity in prison, and now you're in physical freedom, and you are telling us right now that the true freedom is not your surroundings.
01:34:18.810 --> 01:34:18.829
Yeah.
01:34:18.840 --> 01:34:20.649
It's in your heart and your soul.
01:34:20.649 --> 01:34:20.720
I mean, it's
01:34:20.720 --> 01:34:21.090
wondrous.
01:34:21.390 --> 01:34:21.770
No.
01:34:21.779 --> 01:34:22.020
Wow.
01:34:22.189 --> 01:34:27.750
And then you know what other scripture I love is John 10:10, because- Oh the thief came to steal, kill, and destroy.
01:34:27.760 --> 01:34:30.069
He wanted me to die and go home- Yeah in a pine box.
01:34:30.069 --> 01:34:36.710
For, for 17 years I pictured myself, you know, where they were gonna deliver a pine box in front of my-
01:34:36.760 --> 01:34:36.890
Yeah
01:34:36.899 --> 01:34:37.470
children's front porch.
01:34:37.470 --> 01:34:38.090
Yeah, yeah.
01:34:38.510 --> 01:34:38.789
You know?
01:34:38.800 --> 01:34:38.989
Yeah, yeah.
01:34:38.989 --> 01:34:40.329
And they're gonna open the door, and there's their mama.
01:34:40.329 --> 01:34:40.479
Yeah.
01:34:40.479 --> 01:34:41.189
Oh, I can't.
01:34:41.189 --> 01:34:42.710
That's how I- Yeah get delivered to go home.
01:34:42.880 --> 01:34:43.210
Yeah.
01:34:43.359 --> 01:34:46.260
But God said, no, he wasn't gonna let me go home in a pine box.
01:34:46.520 --> 01:34:51.569
But then after the thief comes to kill, steal, and destroy, we live the abundant life.
01:34:51.569 --> 01:34:55.409
And then I started living the abundant life in prison when I was set free, right?
01:34:55.680 --> 01:34:59.840
But then out here, even now today, I'm living the abundant life with Jesus.
01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:02.649
There's n- I mean, you can't make this stuff up.
01:35:02.649 --> 01:35:04.430
It's, it's amazing.
01:35:04.439 --> 01:35:04.449
Mm.
01:35:04.460 --> 01:35:05.920
And it's, I just love it.
01:35:05.930 --> 01:35:09.130
I mean, I couldn't ask for a better life- No than I'm living right now.
01:35:09.750 --> 01:35:10.189
Wow.
01:35:10.829 --> 01:35:14.960
There's this emphasis in scripture that God is testing us to make us come out as gold.
01:35:15.109 --> 01:35:21.220
You know, Job says,"When you tested me, I came forth as gold." Why do you think God goes to such pains with us in this way?
01:35:22.550 --> 01:35:29.920
Uh, I think the testing's so amazing and so beautiful that without the testing you'll never see the, the glory of God.
01:35:29.930 --> 01:35:34.800
The testing is, is the knowing that you're in the fire, you're in the testing.
01:35:35.090 --> 01:35:38.859
Like, and, and, and, and the fire is Jesus.
01:35:38.890 --> 01:35:41.050
It's a fire in you and the Holy Spirit.
01:35:41.239 --> 01:35:50.079
And so the fire is to burn off all the things that, that God wants, wants to take out of you that doesn't belong there, that isn't of God, it's not godly.
01:35:50.340 --> 01:35:50.350
Mm.
01:35:50.439 --> 01:35:56.819
So I think if it wasn't for the testing that I went through, I wouldn't be the woman I am today.
01:35:57.000 --> 01:36:01.710
You know, and it took, it was a long process, of course, but do I regret it?
01:36:01.750 --> 01:36:02.409
No.
01:36:02.449 --> 01:36:04.340
But would I wanna do 17 years?
01:36:04.350 --> 01:36:04.760
No.
01:36:04.789 --> 01:36:11.140
But, but I would, I probably would do five years, at least five years if that's what it took to have what I have today.
01:36:11.149 --> 01:36:11.170
Yeah.
01:36:11.460 --> 01:36:12.460
Because it's worth it.
01:36:12.460 --> 01:36:13.260
It's priceless.
01:36:13.260 --> 01:36:15.100
And there's something about surrender.
01:36:15.100 --> 01:36:32.119
When you totally surrender your life and when you're in the fire and you're in a really tough situation and, and a big, um, you know, like, where it's overwhelming and you don't know how you're gonna make it, that's when you have to come to realization and say,"You know what?
01:36:32.630 --> 01:36:39.890
I gotta surrender this."'Cause you, you don't know w- what else to do, and you've tried everything on your own and that nothing ever works.
01:36:39.949 --> 01:36:44.659
But when you finally just put your hands up, say,"God, I'm surrendering this situation.
01:36:44.670 --> 01:37:04.920
I'm surren- surrendering my life, my heart, my soul, you know, my whole body, my mind, and to make my mind to be more Christ-minded and Christ-centered and, and just renew my mind with the blood of Jesus." Every day I would say,"Lord, just renew my mind to be, to be more Christ-minded, to be in, in you." So people...
01:37:05.149 --> 01:37:06.960
And you know what I always wanted?
01:37:06.960 --> 01:37:08.869
I wanted people to see the Jesus in me.
01:37:08.869 --> 01:37:09.449
I wanted...
01:37:09.630 --> 01:37:12.199
I even said, I go,"Let me die.
01:37:12.229 --> 01:37:12.680
Kill me.
01:37:12.680 --> 01:37:13.810
Put me six feet under.
01:37:13.810 --> 01:37:32.010
Pour concrete on top of me so the Devil can't even dig me up." I wanted to die daily, to kill who I was and the old lady or the, the, the woman that I was before I became Christ and got set free from, from the woman that, that wasn't- Yeah that was all bad, you know?
01:37:32.010 --> 01:37:32.500
And it was-
01:37:32.560 --> 01:37:32.810
Mm.
01:37:32.890 --> 01:37:45.868
I mean, we're all, we have to die to ourselves, and we need a new heart, and we need God to give us that new life, that new, where he created us to be who- To be like Jesus, to have the fruit of the Spirit is the key too.
01:37:45.868 --> 01:37:49.608
To be like Jesus- Yeah is to live and know that we have the fruit of the Spirit.
01:37:49.608 --> 01:37:52.608
And don't, don't ask him for it, just say,"Thank you, Lord.
01:37:52.608 --> 01:37:54.217
Thank you that I have the fruit of the Spirit.
01:37:54.217 --> 01:37:58.807
Thank you, Lord, that I have your love."'Cause if you keep asking for it, he's gonna give it to you.
01:37:58.807 --> 01:38:02.877
But when you say that,"Lord, thank you for your supernatural love," you're gonna have it.
01:38:02.887 --> 01:38:04.557
Thank you for healing me, Father God.
01:38:04.557 --> 01:38:05.868
Thank you for delivering me.
01:38:06.398 --> 01:38:07.507
Thank you for setting me free.
01:38:07.507 --> 01:38:12.387
When I was telling him thank you for setting me free in prison, I just said,"Thank you for my freedom" every day.
01:38:12.637 --> 01:38:18.997
I wasn't free, but I was thanking him for something that I knew was gonna come, that I believed in, and I had the victory.
01:38:19.337 --> 01:38:23.148
And that's how I had the victory over it, by thanking him for my freedom every day.
01:38:23.148 --> 01:38:32.537
For the last two years, I would say,"Thank you for my freedom, Lord." And then the freedom, the, the miracle happened, and the joy that I had by doing that, by thanking him.
01:38:33.007 --> 01:38:36.908
I mean, you can't- Hmm it's just so amazing and it's powerful.
01:38:36.927 --> 01:38:37.837
It's life-changing.
01:38:38.478 --> 01:38:38.917
Hmm.
01:38:39.738 --> 01:38:45.028
Does God feel different to you now than he did in prison, or is the relationship the same?
01:38:46.228 --> 01:39:04.988
I think it, it's somewhat different, but when I'm going through something out here, I go back to the last two years and I go,"I remember how I was just so thankful, thanking God for everything, and my attitude, and I had joy." And I go, I go,"Take me back to those, those two years, Lord, where I knew the joy of the Lord was my strength.
01:39:04.997 --> 01:39:19.688
I, I do not want whatever I'm going through out here, I don't want it to, you know- Hmm to take me, bound me, or make me feel defeated." So I go back, thinking about the last two years were the most powerful, amazing two years of my life.
01:39:19.967 --> 01:39:24.908
And the freedom that I had and the attitude that I had, the I didn't even care if I never went home.
01:39:24.938 --> 01:39:26.167
I was so content.
01:39:26.557 --> 01:39:31.597
And, and, and I was so content with the presence of the Lord that was living in me and His Holy Spirit.
01:39:32.057 --> 01:39:37.018
M- I was like, I, I was all, I was at that place where nothing else mattered.
01:39:37.018 --> 01:39:41.217
I, as long as I have you, Lord Jesus, and this is where you want me, I'm good.
01:39:41.217 --> 01:39:42.198
I'm gonna do this.
01:39:42.198 --> 01:39:42.847
I'm gonna do this.
01:39:42.847 --> 01:39:50.828
And, and then I would say every day,"I'm gonna give you glory today," and I would give him glory and I would be so thankful and so excited.
01:39:51.047 --> 01:40:04.557
I would tell people,"I'm so excited I can hardly stand it." And I would say that in prison, and they were like,"What is wrong with you, Mella?" And the cops even said,"There's something wrong with you" or,"Why are you so happy and joyful?" But it was because I had the Lord.
01:40:04.557 --> 01:40:07.868
It was not me, it was Jesus,'cause I was sold out.
01:40:08.557 --> 01:40:08.957
Wow.
01:40:09.057 --> 01:40:15.417
And what did that joy, was it like a feeling where every morning you woke up and you just felt His joy or, or what?
01:40:15.448 --> 01:40:16.988
Was it something tangible?
01:40:16.988 --> 01:40:18.018
Was it a feeling?
01:40:18.018 --> 01:40:18.158
Right.
01:40:18.158 --> 01:40:19.078
Was it just a faith?
01:40:20.442 --> 01:40:22.671
Just getting excited every day that you woke up.
01:40:22.671 --> 01:40:26.832
'Cause at night, I, I would cry during the night'cause I wanted to go home, right?
01:40:26.832 --> 01:40:28.612
So crying during the night.
01:40:28.851 --> 01:40:29.891
But what happens?
01:40:29.891 --> 01:40:34.942
Joy comes in the morning because I had the crying part, and then I said,"Okay, I'm up.
01:40:35.091 --> 01:40:35.881
I'm ready to go.
01:40:35.881 --> 01:40:36.841
I'm gonna have joy.
01:40:36.862 --> 01:40:38.221
I choose joy today, Lord." Wow.
01:40:38.492 --> 01:40:45.622
And get excited that it's a, it's a new day, and you're gonna give God glory, and you're gonna, you're gonna live with excitement, joyful.
01:40:45.622 --> 01:40:51.702
And then, I mean, people remember, you know, me living so joyful and happy in prison.
01:40:52.002 --> 01:40:53.811
I mean, there's so many testimonies.
01:40:53.811 --> 01:40:56.311
People could tell you how this woman wasn't...
01:40:56.631 --> 01:41:02.731
They would say I wasn't normal because I was- they thought I was going home in a couple weeks, and I was on S time.
01:41:02.731 --> 01:41:04.561
I said,"No, I don't know when I'm going home.
01:41:04.561 --> 01:41:09.171
I'm just excited that I'm alive and, and I'm breathing- Wow and Jesus lives in me, and I'm,
01:41:09.442 --> 01:41:09.622
I'm
01:41:09.622 --> 01:41:13.051
on fire, and, and, and- See- nobody can take my joy either.
01:41:13.061 --> 01:41:14.652
Nobody can take my joy.
01:41:14.662 --> 01:41:15.101
You would...
01:41:15.112 --> 01:41:21.692
I mean, there was times where people would be mean and try to take your joy, and they couldn't, and I think that would make them mad.
01:41:21.692 --> 01:41:24.002
It would piss them off'cause they couldn't take my joy.
01:41:24.002 --> 01:41:24.271
Mm.
01:41:24.271 --> 01:41:26.181
And because of my attitude.
01:41:26.992 --> 01:41:29.042
This is what it means to be more than conquerors.
01:41:29.681 --> 01:41:29.822
Is it time for this or?
01:41:30.362 --> 01:41:30.662
Yeah.
01:41:30.721 --> 01:41:33.131
This is what it means to be more than conquerors in Christ.
01:41:33.462 --> 01:41:34.822
And just the testimony- Yes.
01:41:34.851 --> 01:41:40.011
Yeah the way God used you, just this supernatural, otherworldly joy in prison.
01:41:40.242 --> 01:41:47.011
I mean, no wonder the wardens and all the other prisoners were like,"There's something about this woman," and that's such a testimony to Christ.
01:41:47.872 --> 01:41:55.652
I, I wanna pivot and ask you, like, what does God's eternal justice mean to you after walking through such profound injustice?
01:41:55.971 --> 01:41:57.981
Like, you're not, you've already forgiven your enemies.
01:41:57.981 --> 01:41:58.662
It's clear.
01:41:58.712 --> 01:42:03.872
But, you know, you're not the kind of person who's waiting for judgment day so that, you know, the prosecutor can get, you know.
01:42:04.301 --> 01:42:15.417
I mean, how do you- Do you think about God's justice at all in terms of getting, you know, your, not revenge, but just i- in bringing justice to what happened to you?
01:42:16.417 --> 01:42:23.247
Well, I would always pray for justice, and then, and then I had to turn that around and s- first you gotta pray for mercy.
01:42:23.247 --> 01:42:27.118
Because we're all, we all don't deserve what we, what the Lord- Yeah gives us, right?
01:42:27.127 --> 01:42:27.757
His grace.
01:42:27.997 --> 01:42:32.297
And because we're all sinners, so I started praying for his mercy, then justice.
01:42:32.328 --> 01:42:46.207
Because I still didn't, I mean, I was still a sinner, but I think the ma- the main thing was that I didn't get bitter because I knew God loved me, and I think I, I, I was thankful for my enemies.
01:42:46.207 --> 01:42:49.787
Because really, if you think about it, my enemies brought me to God, right?
01:42:50.047 --> 01:42:58.188
I mean, they, the, my enemies- Oh, God whatever's meant for evil, that what comes out that is so good and so amazing- Mm because God is so good.
01:42:59.127 --> 01:43:03.828
God uses that to bring him where we need to be with him, where-
01:43:03.938 --> 01:43:04.097
Mm
01:43:04.137 --> 01:43:10.307
I would have never got him and got the love of Christ in me, and I would have never got that supernatural anointing.
01:43:10.318 --> 01:43:11.118
The supernatural.
01:43:11.118 --> 01:43:12.568
You even said supernatural.
01:43:12.938 --> 01:43:24.307
We don't get the supernatural if we're living in the natural and we're, and we're letting the enemy take us and,"Oh, well, you know, this happened to me, and this, you know, and I'm so mad and angry at that person," or whatever happened.
01:43:24.358 --> 01:43:27.957
You know, you're, you're feeding your, your, the enemy's camp.
01:43:27.967 --> 01:43:34.177
You're not feeding the kingdom of God,'cause you're, you're feeding your mind with the things that the enemy wants you to feed it.
01:43:34.198 --> 01:43:36.728
But when you start feeding it where, like, you know what?
01:43:37.097 --> 01:43:41.408
I can really thank my enemies because look where I am today, and look where they brought me.
01:43:41.408 --> 01:43:44.467
They brought me to my knees- Wow where I learned how to pray.
01:43:44.488 --> 01:43:51.747
They brought me to know that I have joy no matter in the midst of my trials and my fire, that I can really choose joy.
01:43:51.967 --> 01:43:54.547
I can choose, um, peace.
01:43:54.547 --> 01:43:55.887
I can choose love.
01:43:56.137 --> 01:43:59.518
I mean, and I can, God will just turn it all the way around.
01:43:59.837 --> 01:44:01.318
But, and I can be thankful.
01:44:01.318 --> 01:44:07.658
I, I am so thankful for my enemies because they really did, I would have never had what I, what I got.
01:44:07.837 --> 01:44:11.747
And I would have never experienced the injustice that I experienced.
01:44:11.988 --> 01:44:15.557
But I would have never realized that they had some mercy, that I needed mercy.
01:44:15.837 --> 01:44:17.528
And then the justice came.
01:44:17.528 --> 01:44:18.828
The truth came out, of course.
01:44:19.279 --> 01:44:26.119
But, um, until the truth comes out, they can keep lying and lying on you because the truth is what you wanna pray for, the truth.
01:44:26.130 --> 01:44:30.750
And I didn't know to pray for the truth when I first, you know, went to trial.
01:44:30.770 --> 01:44:35.359
I was thinking I'd pray for the lies, you know, for the, um, to expose the lies.
01:44:35.399 --> 01:44:40.500
But when I went back the second time, I was saying expose the truth because God is the truth.
01:44:40.739 --> 01:44:42.979
If you expose the lies, God's not in it.
01:44:42.989 --> 01:44:45.180
He is not He's in the truth, right?
01:44:45.180 --> 01:44:52.020
So you pray for the truth, and then, and you pray for mercy and justice, and then that's when God turned everything around.
01:44:52.020 --> 01:44:53.329
God is a God of reversal.
01:44:53.329 --> 01:44:54.949
He reversed my death sentence.
01:44:54.949 --> 01:44:59.560
He reversed everything because that's what he specializes in, and he does the impossible.
01:44:59.560 --> 01:45:01.350
He reversed my death sentence.
01:45:01.359 --> 01:45:11.884
My first death sentence would've been where I wasn't gonna go to heaven if I didn't get saved, and maybe if I wouldn't have ended up in prison, I might not have ended up You know, being saved and going to heaven.
01:45:12.134 --> 01:45:16.703
That was my first death sentence that got, I got- Wow when I first got arrested.
01:45:16.923 --> 01:45:22.094
But my second death sentence was I was gonna die and go to, go home in a pine box.
01:45:22.163 --> 01:45:25.484
But God said,"No." He goes,"I'm gonna give you-" Mm.
01:45:25.493 --> 01:45:25.783
I'm...
01:45:25.793 --> 01:45:28.743
He, he gave me, He reversed my second.
01:45:28.743 --> 01:45:30.434
So I had two death sentences, right?
01:45:30.434 --> 01:45:30.634
Mm-hmm.
01:45:30.634 --> 01:45:36.194
And the second one got reversed because God reversed, He reverses both of them, and it's so amazing.
01:45:36.344 --> 01:45:36.363
Yeah.
01:45:36.384 --> 01:45:52.113
I'm excited and, and I love what God did for me, and I love even that says,"Pray for your enemies and love them," we can love our enemies because they're the ones that actually bring- Mm everything to the place where you totally get transformed- Mm and redeemed, and your whole life turns around.
01:45:52.363 --> 01:45:58.413
And God just does something beautiful in your life from what the enemy tried to do, and that's what the devil doesn't want.
01:45:58.423 --> 01:46:09.333
He wants us to stay, you know, miserable and, and, um, you know, and just feel that we're, you know, that, and to be angry and mad at your enemies and not forgive them and not thank them.
01:46:09.863 --> 01:46:15.314
But I think thanking your enemies- Yeah is even another key to even take you up even higher, you know?
01:46:15.323 --> 01:46:15.333
Mm.
01:46:15.344 --> 01:46:16.344
Than just forgiving them.
01:46:16.404 --> 01:46:16.863
Thank them.
01:46:17.213 --> 01:46:18.163
Thank them because-
01:46:18.173 --> 01:46:18.573
Wow
01:46:18.573 --> 01:46:18.923
guess what?
01:46:18.934 --> 01:46:22.184
They brought you to where you are today, and that's what He did for me.
01:46:22.463 --> 01:46:24.404
So I thank the woman that lied on me.
01:46:24.404 --> 01:46:24.934
I can...
01:46:25.203 --> 01:46:29.104
And she died of cancer, and then- Mm um, but you know what?
01:46:29.104 --> 01:46:34.833
I prayed for her salvation, and what happened- Wow was her sister ended up being one of the, my testimonies.
01:46:34.894 --> 01:46:43.003
The woman that said that, her sister lied, ended up being a, um, a valuable, um, part of my, um, my, um, lawsuit.
01:46:43.064 --> 01:46:56.923
Because she came forward and, um, said that,"You know, my sister lies." But, but if I wouldn't have prayed for her sister for her salvation, do you think God would've brought her sister in my case and, and, and let her be a eyewitness?
01:46:57.094 --> 01:46:59.743
And then,'cause she was a Torrance cop.
01:47:00.394 --> 01:47:00.944
Oh, my God.
01:47:00.944 --> 01:47:06.203
But- So to be clear, this is the lawsuit when you're suing the city, you know, for damages- Uh-huh after all this injustice.
01:47:06.213 --> 01:47:06.503
It is.
01:47:06.503 --> 01:47:16.554
And now the prosecutor who unjustly, you know, brought the case against you, her sister now is testifying on your behalf in your lawsuit to-
01:47:16.564 --> 01:47:25.543
No, the- The- the girl that lied on me, the girl that lied on me, you know, not the prosecutor, but the girl that lied on me on the stand and told me that I was- Oh at the crime, right?
01:47:25.554 --> 01:47:26.814
The lady- Oh June Patty.
01:47:26.823 --> 01:47:27.043
Oh.
01:47:27.094 --> 01:47:28.384
I forgave June Patty.
01:47:28.384 --> 01:47:29.564
I, I prayed for her.
01:47:29.743 --> 01:47:44.894
So then that's how God was able to bring her in my case 17 years later, and, um- I can't believe it and it was, it was a blessing that, um, she came, you know, where she was saying that her sister was a liar, and she went against everything, and she was a Torrance police officer.
01:47:45.283 --> 01:47:45.604
Yeah.
01:47:45.604 --> 01:47:46.213
Wow.
01:47:46.434 --> 01:47:47.783
You just have such an anointing.
01:47:47.793 --> 01:47:50.123
Like, I, just the way that you...
01:47:50.543 --> 01:47:56.104
I loved when you said He is the God of reversal, and, and I, sometimes I say, like, He does the great flip.
01:47:56.113 --> 01:47:56.134
Yeah.
01:47:56.423 --> 01:48:00.594
It's, again, it's Genesis 50:20,"What Satan intends for evil, God intends for good." Yeah.
01:48:00.604 --> 01:48:01.833
Like, it's just, you know.
01:48:01.833 --> 01:48:04.094
I mean, even the cross turned to resurrection.
01:48:04.113 --> 01:48:04.243
Yeah.
01:48:04.243 --> 01:48:05.613
He's always cross to glory.
01:48:05.613 --> 01:48:05.634
Yeah.
01:48:05.644 --> 01:48:09.015
It's just- I just love the way you, you put things.
01:48:09.046 --> 01:48:14.155
And I'm wondering if there's any part of your story that still doesn't feel resolved.
01:48:14.166 --> 01:48:22.155
Like, are there any questions that you're still asking God or, you know, anything on your heart that you're still wrestling with, or are you just totally at peace?
01:48:22.695 --> 01:48:27.775
I'm, I'm totally at peace, but even more so than peace, I'm just so full of joy.
01:48:27.815 --> 01:48:33.655
The joy of the Lord is like, I mean, he's became, um, just he's a real joy giver.
01:48:33.655 --> 01:48:43.506
And if you really read, um, in Psalms, I think it's Psalm 17 or, or 16, and it says, um, the, um, that, that the...
01:48:43.536 --> 01:48:44.206
Wait, what is it?
01:48:44.206 --> 01:48:56.145
Oh,"In the presence of the Lord is the fullness of joy." So when you carry his presence, so if you wake up every morning and you say,"God, I'm gonna drink your glory and I'm gonna carry your presence," you are gonna have such a joy.
01:48:56.496 --> 01:49:03.456
You know, because the, um, it's in his presence is the fullness of joy, so you wanna have his presence and you wanna thank him for his presence every day.
01:49:03.456 --> 01:49:08.725
Just instead of asking him for things, just start thanking him because it's already, it's already in you.
01:49:08.876 --> 01:49:10.126
So you start thanking him.
01:49:10.126 --> 01:49:13.246
Like, I started thanking him, you know, towards the end of my time.
01:49:13.246 --> 01:49:19.945
I just started thanking him for everything, and then I think that's when the miracle really starts happening, when you start thanking the Lord.
01:49:20.155 --> 01:49:22.015
Instead of asking, just thank him.
01:49:22.025 --> 01:49:27.246
So you're actually praying in the victory already,'cause you're thanking him, so it's already done.
01:49:27.256 --> 01:49:27.275
Wow.
01:49:27.286 --> 01:49:27.576
Right?
01:49:27.576 --> 01:49:28.975
You're, you're, you're praying.
01:49:29.586 --> 01:49:31.645
Um, it's, it's so amazing.
01:49:31.645 --> 01:49:37.926
And the number 17 is I overcame the enemy by, I overcame, I completely overcame the enemy.
01:49:37.956 --> 01:49:41.466
Number 17 is completely overcome the enemy.
01:49:41.685 --> 01:49:44.796
So the number 17, I love the number 17.
01:49:45.076 --> 01:49:45.655
And I- Why?
01:49:45.666 --> 01:49:46.376
should hate it, right?
01:49:46.376 --> 01:49:48.046
'Cause I was 17 years in prison.
01:49:48.365 --> 01:49:56.676
But now I heard somebody tell me 17 is you overcame, um, you, you completely overcome the enemy, the number 17.
01:49:57.546 --> 01:50:00.895
Meaning it, 17 has some meaning in culture, or are you just
01:50:01.086 --> 01:50:02.265
saying now- Yes, it does in the Bible.
01:50:02.265 --> 01:50:03.996
You ask the Bi- uh, from- Oh,
01:50:03.996 --> 01:50:04.206
really?
01:50:04.275 --> 01:50:10.365
You ask your phone and you ask what 17 means- Huh and it tells you, um, you completely overcome the enemy.
01:50:10.746 --> 01:50:12.716
Because seven's perfection, right?
01:50:13.716 --> 01:50:13.815
Right.
01:50:13.815 --> 01:50:14.466
I knew that.
01:50:14.466 --> 01:50:14.935
So seven and one is eight.
01:50:14.945 --> 01:50:16.765
That's new beginning, yeah.
01:50:17.931 --> 01:50:19.681
Wow, this, that's just wild.
01:50:19.681 --> 01:50:21.011
I had never heard that.
01:50:21.032 --> 01:50:21.962
Oh my gosh.
01:50:22.681 --> 01:50:23.131
Wow.
01:50:23.872 --> 01:50:24.192
Um-
01:50:24.202 --> 01:50:25.471
But there's so much, yeah.
01:50:25.471 --> 01:50:27.481
There's so much to my story, yeah.
01:50:27.752 --> 01:50:29.021
And- For God's glory, right?
01:50:29.021 --> 01:50:39.851
I, well, I wanna give I, I have a testimony that turned into my greatest love story for God's glory, and I always wanna start out by sharing that in the beginning because it is a love story.
01:50:39.851 --> 01:50:43.962
Because I don't really share a lot what the enemy did, I share what God did.
01:50:43.962 --> 01:50:47.442
Because I don't wanna give the enemy glory, I wanna give God the glory.
01:50:47.712 --> 01:50:51.851
And of- Yeah of my whole story, it's to turn it around to give God glory.
01:50:51.851 --> 01:50:52.252
Wow.
01:50:52.252 --> 01:50:58.082
And so people can see the glory of God in my, in my story, and it's, and it's just a beautiful thing.
01:50:58.082 --> 01:51:04.261
And I just, I'm, I, I just, I'm excited and I just love him so much, and what he's done in my life.
01:51:04.261 --> 01:51:05.442
It's so amazing.
01:51:05.452 --> 01:51:05.471
Mm-hmm.
01:51:05.481 --> 01:51:07.572
I can't even comprehend it all.
01:51:08.192 --> 01:51:08.832
Wow.
01:51:09.362 --> 01:51:10.641
That's just so beautiful.
01:51:10.662 --> 01:51:16.412
And y- has, has God invited you into a new identity or calling that has surprised you?
01:51:16.412 --> 01:51:21.872
I mean, you know, you're Who are you now apart from, you know, the woman who was wrongfully imprisoned?
01:51:21.912 --> 01:51:24.721
Like, i- is he leading you into a new season?
01:51:24.721 --> 01:51:28.841
Do you sense that, or maybe with just these podcasts and your book release?
01:51:30.542 --> 01:51:37.061
Well, I'm, I'm actually working with another attorney that, actually, this guy's been in prison for 53 years.
01:51:37.381 --> 01:51:41.131
So, and I sent you the little, um, the, um-
01:51:41.591 --> 01:51:41.891
Yeah
01:51:41.952 --> 01:51:43.282
the, an invitation.
01:51:43.282 --> 01:51:46.542
But I'm actually helping this guy, this attorney.
01:51:46.542 --> 01:51:47.742
You know, she's a nonprofit.
01:51:47.752 --> 01:51:50.231
Anyway, she's gonna help him get out after 50...
01:51:50.242 --> 01:51:52.421
He's still sitting in prison, 53 years.
01:51:52.692 --> 01:51:53.862
And it just breaks my heart.
01:51:53.862 --> 01:52:02.061
So my calling is to help other people that I know that have been falsely accused, to, to help them, you know, so they get a chance to get set free.
01:52:02.402 --> 01:52:08.942
That, and then, um, and then I actually get to go speak at different Aglow, um, lighthouses.
01:52:08.942 --> 01:52:11.221
And then I have a Bible study every Monday night.
01:52:11.502 --> 01:52:13.082
And yeah, I just, um...
01:52:13.362 --> 01:52:16.971
And then I have another Bible study on, once a month on a Saturday.
01:52:16.992 --> 01:52:20.902
And then Aglow, tomorrow I have Aglow, where I'm actually sharing my testimony.
01:52:20.902 --> 01:52:25.841
But, um, it, I just, um, wherever the Lord wants me to go, I just never know.
01:52:25.841 --> 01:52:27.631
It's wherever he sends me, right?
01:52:27.631 --> 01:52:29.692
I just say yes- Mm to wherever he sends me.
01:52:29.692 --> 01:52:31.051
I'm, I'm gonna go, Lord.
01:52:31.122 --> 01:52:31.551
So.
01:52:31.681 --> 01:52:44.561
If you could go back and tell the younger Susie, who's sitting in that interrogation room, right, before the unjust- Mm-hmm imprisonment kicks off, what would you tell younger Susie, you know, to comfort her or encourage her?
01:52:44.561 --> 01:52:45.402
Does that make sense?
01:52:45.412 --> 01:52:45.421
Ooh.
01:52:46.591 --> 01:52:47.692
Yeah, you're gonna make me cry.
01:52:47.692 --> 01:52:49.582
That was a, that's a, that's a, um-
01:52:49.612 --> 01:52:50.011
Yeah.
01:52:50.322 --> 01:53:34.636
And what about to-'Cause I can picture me, I can picture me in that interrogation room with that woman, and- I, what I would tell her now is that I would s- I would thank her that, that we were able to make it, that she, that she did, made the right choice by choosing Jesus and, and to, to just let your, let it be something that where the pain, how she took the pain that I had and made it into God's purpose, and promises, and, and power, and I, I couldn't have done it without how what I went through growing up as a little girl.
01:53:35.345 --> 01:53:40.895
I've had some, you know, some really, some, some things that happened, but I haven't shared yet.
01:53:40.926 --> 01:53:47.905
But, um, but I really think that little girl that was in me, I was 42 years old, but there is a little girl.
01:53:47.905 --> 01:53:49.756
There's a little girl in e- each one of us.
01:53:50.225 --> 01:53:50.376
Yeah.
01:53:50.376 --> 01:54:03.296
And that little girl that we nurture, and I really believe I nurtured her and, and she got me through where I am today, and I'm just so thankful for that inner child that lives inside of me.
01:54:03.296 --> 01:54:14.185
Because I think the little inner child, the little girl that's in me, is a very loving child that, that loves people and wants the best for people.
01:54:14.185 --> 01:54:15.475
I wanna encourage people.
01:54:15.475 --> 01:54:22.386
I wanna edify and, and I want, I wanna upgrade people to, to know that we can live a, the best life ever.
01:54:22.595 --> 01:54:28.145
A surrendered life is living the abundant life, and I really believe it.
01:54:28.166 --> 01:54:30.845
It's a, I don't know, it's a beautiful thing.
01:54:30.855 --> 01:54:30.865
Mm.
01:54:30.886 --> 01:54:38.145
And if I can help other people live the life that I'm living right now, and it's not me who I am today.
01:54:38.145 --> 01:54:40.956
It's because of who Jesus is in me, and that's it.
01:54:40.975 --> 01:54:42.525
And that, and that's my...
01:54:43.296 --> 01:54:52.076
It's the Jesus that I, that I fell in love with, that I knew I fell in love with him, and my whole life changed because of the love of Christ in me.
01:54:52.506 --> 01:54:52.975
And, um- Yeah.
01:54:53.115 --> 01:54:54.126
Mm he gave me hope.
01:54:54.515 --> 01:54:55.666
He never let me give up.
01:54:55.706 --> 01:54:57.615
He let me have love.
01:54:57.615 --> 01:55:01.515
I, I loved on purpose in prison because there was hurting women in there.
01:55:01.886 --> 01:55:16.185
And when I loved on purpose, I was able to feed my faith, and that's how my faith got stronger and stronger through the love of Christ and the supernatural love that was given to me to, to, um, to be where I made it, and here I am today to share.
01:55:16.235 --> 01:55:16.796
Amen.
01:55:17.485 --> 01:55:18.105
Amen.
01:55:18.506 --> 01:55:29.126
What would you say to someone who right now they're trapped in a prison, metaphorical, literal, you know, they feel like the Lord isn't answering their prayers, yet they're in that waiting season?
01:55:29.676 --> 01:55:32.155
What would you say to them to encourage them?
01:55:33.720 --> 01:55:35.369
I would say look up.
01:55:35.770 --> 01:55:49.590
Look up, and then as you're looking up, put your hands up in the air and say,"Lord, Jesus, I surrender it." I would, I would say surrender it, because if you're at that place...
01:55:50.119 --> 01:55:59.359
'Cause surrender is difficult, but it'll end up being the sweetest, most loving thing that you'll experience, the Holy Spirit and God.
01:55:59.369 --> 01:56:06.670
Because it's when you're finally just saying,"I gotta let it, I got, I gotta give it to you." Once you give it to him, he's g- he's, he's gonna come.
01:56:07.149 --> 01:56:14.420
He's gonna- Mm he's gonna give you that hope that you need and the faith and the love, and you're gonna feel something, and it's gonna be life-changing.
01:56:14.420 --> 01:56:16.739
It's gonna, it's, it's, it's...
01:56:16.739 --> 01:56:19.260
I, I, I, I can't tell you enough.
01:56:19.260 --> 01:56:21.380
Surrender is the key to your freedom.
01:56:21.739 --> 01:56:22.449
Surrender.
01:56:22.520 --> 01:56:22.619
Mm.
01:56:23.199 --> 01:56:25.300
And then everything else will fall into place.
01:56:25.340 --> 01:56:31.760
But surrender, to me, when we worship the Lord and we go to church and we worship him and we put our hands up, isn't that a surrender?
01:56:32.029 --> 01:56:35.289
And don't you feel good when you're there worshiping the Lord and you're putting your hands up?
01:56:35.479 --> 01:56:35.500
Yeah.
01:56:35.699 --> 01:56:39.949
So you, you want what God has for you, and it's in the surrender.
01:56:39.949 --> 01:56:41.520
And, and put your hands up.
01:56:41.560 --> 01:56:45.729
Your hands are saying,"I'm done." So if you're in your own little prison, guess what?
01:56:45.729 --> 01:56:47.399
He's gonna take those shackles off.
01:56:47.710 --> 01:56:48.869
He's gonna- Mm-hmm take them off.
01:56:49.199 --> 01:56:54.300
He's gonna set you free, and the surrender is, is the key to freedom.
01:56:54.310 --> 01:56:54.319
Mm.
01:56:54.329 --> 01:56:55.920
And, and it's so sweet.
01:56:55.970 --> 01:57:02.829
I mean, it took me 15 years- Mm to surrender to life without the possibility of parole,'cause I wanted to go home to my children.
01:57:02.829 --> 01:57:04.960
I didn't wanna spend the rest of my life in prison.
01:57:05.560 --> 01:57:05.930
Yeah.
01:57:05.939 --> 01:57:13.159
But surrendering took me to a whole different level, and I, I experienced the true love of Christ.
01:57:13.170 --> 01:57:14.699
I surrendered his presence.
01:57:14.699 --> 01:57:18.060
I surren- I, I, I, I experienced his presence.
01:57:18.069 --> 01:57:22.020
It was like his presence was, like, the key to surrender, too.
01:57:22.020 --> 01:57:23.369
You're gonna feel his presence.
01:57:23.369 --> 01:57:25.090
It's really- Mm it's amazing.
01:57:25.090 --> 01:57:25.859
It's powerful.
01:57:26.670 --> 01:57:27.119
Man.
01:57:27.159 --> 01:57:34.050
What I was thinking about was, okay, Susie would have been faithful to the Lord, and she would have believed that he was good even if she died in that prison.
01:57:34.050 --> 01:57:37.430
I just know it,'cause you said you were so joyful the last two years.
01:57:37.430 --> 01:57:38.239
You were sold out.
01:57:38.260 --> 01:57:41.739
You said,"Lord, do your will." And yet the Lord delivered you.
01:57:41.739 --> 01:57:43.729
But then we look at John the Baptist, right?
01:57:43.739 --> 01:57:45.439
John the Baptist was having doubts.
01:57:45.510 --> 01:57:45.659
Mm-hmm.
01:57:45.659 --> 01:57:51.069
He sent his disciples to ask Jesus, like,"Are you even the Messiah?" Because I'm guessing he was just...
01:57:51.079 --> 01:57:54.100
You know, suffering does- Yes wear our faith.
01:57:54.140 --> 01:57:55.050
It tests us.
01:57:55.529 --> 01:57:56.869
And, and so...
01:57:56.939 --> 01:57:58.479
And I'm not knocking on John the Baptist.
01:57:58.479 --> 01:58:00.710
Like, Lord knows I would've been even in more despair.
01:58:00.720 --> 01:58:09.713
But my point is- I wanna put a gloss on this to encourage someone out there who, who maybe they didn't get the deliverance.
01:58:09.713 --> 01:58:18.953
Let's say their spouse just died or their child, you know, just got diagnosed with cancer or whatever, where we just feel like, okay, the Lord isn't gonna give the deliverance.
01:58:19.333 --> 01:58:20.444
It's already done.
01:58:20.974 --> 01:58:23.323
How can we encourage that person?
01:58:23.394 --> 01:58:25.064
Bec- Does that make sense?
01:58:25.844 --> 01:58:26.293
Mm-hmm.
01:58:26.724 --> 01:58:42.046
I mean, it's There's so many ways you can look at it, and there's so many things that I think Pain is pain and, and, and you can't just tell somebody and they just lost a loved one and what- Yeah the pain that you've gone through, and they're gonna grieve.
01:58:42.086 --> 01:58:55.985
But, but I've had people that, a, a, a girl that just lost her son not too long ago, but, but she said because of my testimony and because how I forgave, she was able to forgive the man that actually, you know, killed her son.
01:58:56.496 --> 01:59:08.555
But, but she said I help her a lot because, because I,'cause I really believe that when we go through something so terrible and so devastating, the devil wants your joy.
01:59:08.565 --> 01:59:09.706
He wants your joy.
01:59:09.716 --> 01:59:15.555
He, he want- Yeah and he's gon- And that's when he wants to take you down, and he wants to get you stuck in your pain.
01:59:15.805 --> 01:59:21.355
But that's where I really believe that that's when we can have a turning point, but where you really, you know...
01:59:21.395 --> 01:59:25.565
But I, I really believe when somebody loses a loved one, you have to grieve that.
01:59:25.565 --> 01:59:28.305
I'm not saying like, say,"Oh, the joy of the Lord is my strength."
01:59:28.365 --> 01:59:28.796
Yeah.
01:59:28.805 --> 01:59:30.176
That's not what I'm saying at all.
01:59:30.445 --> 01:59:41.435
But I'm saying but after the grieving and after you really, you know, and then you just kinda say,"Lord, I, I want, I want joy knowing that they're okay and they're in heaven." You know?
01:59:41.435 --> 01:59:41.445
Yeah.
01:59:41.445 --> 01:59:43.126
That should give us joy, too, right?
01:59:43.126 --> 01:59:44.105
Because they're in heaven.
01:59:44.115 --> 01:59:44.145
Oh, yeah.
01:59:44.376 --> 01:59:49.136
And then you get to see, you picture eternity and say, you know, I'm gonna see them one day.
01:59:49.275 --> 01:59:52.826
So that will, that will give you comfort, you know?
01:59:53.145 --> 01:59:55.466
But and I think but there is joy.
01:59:55.475 --> 02:00:02.645
You could cry, like I cried every night when I went to bed, but I did have joy in the morning because God didn't want me to get stuck there.
02:00:03.055 --> 02:00:15.365
You know, and it's okay to cry, but then the, and then when the morning comes you can have joy, meaning that we can get through the day and we know that the joy comes within, and the joy is, the real joy giver is Jesus.
02:00:15.365 --> 02:00:20.695
So you're not saying,"Oh, I'm so happy," you know,"and I just lost my, you know, my husband or I lost my son." Yeah.
02:00:20.775 --> 02:00:22.895
"But I can still be happy." It doesn't have nothing to do with happiness.
02:00:22.895 --> 02:00:22.926
It's a joy.
02:00:22.926 --> 02:00:26.565
It's a joy- Mm-hmm that, when it comes from the Lord.
02:00:26.826 --> 02:00:33.555
And joy meaning that, that you don't have to be miserable or you don't have to be stuck in your pain.
02:00:33.555 --> 02:00:36.435
But, and then that's when God will give you purpose.
02:00:36.435 --> 02:00:40.586
But I really believe, you know, that God doesn't want us to get stuck in our pain.
02:00:40.586 --> 02:00:41.065
Mm.
02:00:41.065 --> 02:00:43.115
And he really wants us to choose joy.
02:00:43.145 --> 02:00:47.015
But it's really when you choose joy, you're gonna get His presence, right?
02:00:47.015 --> 02:00:48.006
And you're in His presence.
02:00:48.015 --> 02:00:48.445
Mm.
02:00:48.506 --> 02:00:49.496
So you feel His presence.
02:00:49.496 --> 02:00:54.666
Just like sometimes when you lose a loved one, you feel like you s- feel their presence or there's just something, some connection.
02:00:54.676 --> 02:00:54.695
Yeah.
02:00:54.905 --> 02:01:04.345
Or you hear a song and you feel, you feel them because there's a song on the radio and you're like,"Oh, my God." That's, you know, and that really takes you to that place with them.
02:01:04.355 --> 02:01:10.355
And, and then you have all these memories, so you just, you just hold onto the memories, the good memories.
02:01:10.365 --> 02:01:10.395
Mm-hmm.
02:01:10.405 --> 02:01:10.765
Right?
02:01:10.765 --> 02:01:10.996
Yeah.
02:01:10.996 --> 02:01:14.775
And so you don't, you don't look at it as like a death, like they died.
02:01:14.775 --> 02:01:17.496
As soon as they died, they took their last breath.
02:01:18.136 --> 02:01:20.376
They went right then or they went.
02:01:20.386 --> 02:01:20.666
Yeah.
02:01:20.735 --> 02:01:22.115
I mean, it's so beautiful.
02:01:22.305 --> 02:01:34.623
When you look at the beautiful thing and where they are, that they're in a better place than us anyways, but, but I think- Yeah that we just gotta look at things in, in a different- Where you look at something more positive than negative.
02:01:34.623 --> 02:01:44.224
When the enemy gives you something to look at it to where it's, it's more painful and it's not nice and it And sometimes the enemy, you know, he makes us think things that are terrible.
02:01:44.524 --> 02:01:55.514
But we need to turn that, we need to turn it off, and we need to go where, and have a, instead of having a- Mm-hmm a, a language of hell,'cause that's what the enemy gives us, he- a language of hell.
02:01:55.753 --> 02:01:57.304
We want a language of heaven.
02:01:57.314 --> 02:02:11.213
We want what God says in the word of God and the things that, that He wants us to have to- Mm to take us to get that joy and to be in His presence, and to be able to enjoy our life again, because that's important.
02:02:11.594 --> 02:02:16.533
And, and, and that person that's in heaven, they don't want you to be miserable and be sad.
02:02:16.543 --> 02:02:21.884
They want you to be, to move on and, and live a, the best life you can live even without them.
02:02:21.923 --> 02:02:24.713
But, you know, and you just ask God,"Well, how do I live?
02:02:24.783 --> 02:02:27.384
How do I live?" Like I ask God,"How do I live in prison?
02:02:27.384 --> 02:02:29.134
How do I do this, Lord, to have joy?
02:02:29.144 --> 02:02:39.583
How do I live in this place that's, that's horrible and it's a, a nightmare?" And then He would give me things to think about and to feel, you know, His presence or to feel the joy.
02:02:39.753 --> 02:02:42.564
I mean, it was- Wow asking too, just asking God.
02:02:42.923 --> 02:02:45.934
But, and just thanking- Mm Him that you can, you woke up this morning.
02:02:45.963 --> 02:02:47.724
There's always something to thank God for.
02:02:47.724 --> 02:02:49.314
Thank you for waking me up.
02:02:49.314 --> 02:02:54.253
Thank you the breath that you breathe your breath on me today, and I am gonna be positive today.
02:02:54.253 --> 02:03:09.533
I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna- Mm choose, you know, to be joyful and happy- Mm and I'm gonna choose to be positive today so the enemy can't take me down that little rabbit hole, you know, of being negative and, and being, you know, sad.
02:03:09.764 --> 02:03:11.203
And we don't have to be sad.
02:03:11.203 --> 02:03:13.793
Well, we can choose joy over sadness, right?
02:03:13.804 --> 02:03:15.713
'Cause joy comes from the Lord.
02:03:16.024 --> 02:03:17.514
It's- Mm it's a difference.
02:03:17.514 --> 02:03:20.734
It's different than happiness either, and we only get joy from the Lord.
02:03:20.734 --> 02:03:23.394
It doesn't come from an- it doesn't come from your circumstances.
02:03:23.394 --> 02:03:24.764
It don't come from nothing.
02:03:25.173 --> 02:03:27.963
But Jesus Christ is your real joy giver.
02:03:28.814 --> 02:03:28.934
Mm.
02:03:28.974 --> 02:03:29.904
And that's what you want.
02:03:29.963 --> 02:03:33.613
That's what you thank Him for, the joy that He gives you every day to get through.
02:03:34.713 --> 02:03:35.554
And that's what- Absolutely I did every day in prison
02:03:37.742 --> 02:03:38.082
Wow.
02:03:38.261 --> 02:03:39.341
I mean, absolutely.
02:03:39.341 --> 02:03:49.561
It's like regardless of his will, we can rejoice because he has good purposes in motion, just like he m- turned your LWOP into a life with a purpose.
02:03:49.962 --> 02:03:57.242
I mean, no matter whether there's a deliverance on this side or not, we know that God is good because he is moving- Yeah eternal good purposes.
02:03:57.431 --> 02:03:59.452
That's gonna flip the evil into good.
02:03:59.452 --> 02:04:04.771
And sometimes we see the redemption in eternity, but God gives us so many precious glimpses here.
02:04:05.381 --> 02:04:09.351
Um, Susie, is there anything you want to leave the audience with before we end?
02:04:09.362 --> 02:04:11.731
Just, you know, keep asking him for his grace.
02:04:11.731 --> 02:04:13.532
His grace is supernatural grace.
02:04:13.561 --> 02:04:19.202
Because his grace, I feel like grace is, is a very powerful word to use, and it's favor.
02:04:19.502 --> 02:04:23.101
So you just ask for his, you know, or you just keep thanking him, right?
02:04:23.101 --> 02:04:25.822
I just wanna keep thanking him for his grace, his joy.
02:04:25.822 --> 02:04:27.381
I keep thanking him for his peace.
02:04:27.381 --> 02:04:30.002
I thank him for his, his supernatural love.
02:04:30.271 --> 02:04:31.032
I just want...
02:04:31.091 --> 02:04:41.997
I think there's something about thanking him is, um, the key to, really gives me this uppity, you know, experience where I'm just, I'm living my best life right now because I'm so thankful.
02:04:41.997 --> 02:04:46.688
I think thankfulness is, is really, um, God loves a thankful heart, right?
02:04:46.738 --> 02:04:49.717
So it's, it brings you and draws you closer to Him.
02:04:49.728 --> 02:04:49.738
Mm.
02:04:50.297 --> 02:04:51.097
And that's what you want.
02:04:51.097 --> 02:04:52.537
You just wanna draw closer to Him.
02:04:52.547 --> 02:04:59.478
You want more of Him, more of Him, you know, and you wanna chase after Him, not things or after people or, I don't know.
02:04:59.478 --> 02:05:05.057
Like, He has me in a really good place right now where I'm just trusting Him totally, and I'm just thanking Him.
02:05:05.068 --> 02:05:09.967
I just, my heart is so overflow with, um, thanksgiving and rejoicing.
02:05:09.967 --> 02:05:40.787
I love rejoicing'cause in, um, Philippians 4:6 it says,"Rejoice," and then it says again,"Rejoice." And when you really think about it, Paul was in prison and he kept saying,"I rejoice." And, and so when I read those in prison, I'm thinking,"Well, if Paul was in prison and he's rejoicing and he's counting it joy," and, and James counted all joy, I'm thinking,"Okay, well, okay, Lord, then I'm gonna count this all joy." So it was like, it, it just, it took my mind to a whole different, you know, level, and it upgraded me in the Kingdom of God.
02:05:40.858 --> 02:05:42.328
And we wanna be in the Kingdom of God.
02:05:42.328 --> 02:05:43.747
You wanna have the key.
02:05:43.747 --> 02:05:56.158
I'm gonna send you a key that you're gonna step into the kingdom because a lot of times we don't step into the kingdom because we're over here in the kingdom of darkness, and we're being negative, and we're not living the life that God has for us, and we're in the enemy's camp.
02:05:56.518 --> 02:06:03.507
But no, He says,"No, step into my kingdom, in the Kingdom of light, and I want you to start rejoicing in everything.
02:06:03.547 --> 02:06:09.908
I want you to just be thankful, and I want you to, um, you know, to have joy, unspeakable joy, perfect peace.
02:06:09.908 --> 02:06:17.828
I want you to have my love, and I want you to show people that this is how we can live our life, the abundant life in the kingdom," right?
02:06:17.868 --> 02:06:19.297
And the keys to the kingdom.
02:06:19.387 --> 02:06:27.957
So I give everybody the keys to the kingdom to step in the kingdom and, and it's really a symbol of His key, and He's got the master key, and He wants us to live in the kingdom.
02:06:28.368 --> 02:06:33.877
In the kingdom is being cheerful, happy, joyful, you know, um, on fire for the Lord.
02:06:33.877 --> 02:06:36.177
It's being baptized in the Holy fresh fire.
02:06:36.188 --> 02:06:36.818
Amen.
02:06:37.747 --> 02:06:38.297
Amen.
02:06:38.328 --> 02:06:38.988
Oh, my gosh.
02:06:39.028 --> 02:06:44.337
I'm not gonna add a single word because I want you to have the last word- and I can't think of a better place.
02:06:44.427 --> 02:06:44.847
You saved me there.
02:06:44.847 --> 02:06:45.037
You're
02:06:45.057 --> 02:06:45.078
so
02:06:45.408 --> 02:06:45.448
cute.
02:06:45.448 --> 02:06:46.057
I mean, you,
02:06:46.118 --> 02:06:49.518
you are the li- you are the light in the darkness, Susie.
02:06:49.557 --> 02:06:58.057
I just, I cannot- Hello tell you how- Thank you you are the most inspirational Christian I've ever met, and I know you're so humble, you just wouldn't, you know.
02:06:58.068 --> 02:06:58.467
Oh, no.
02:06:58.478 --> 02:07:06.967
Because, I mean, just what you have walked through, I want to thank you- Just for your courage, and also for your courage in sharing your testimony now.
02:07:06.988 --> 02:07:09.818
'Cause you could have said,"Oh, I've been through enough already.
02:07:09.818 --> 02:07:16.247
Why would I...?" But here you are- Yeah on fire for God, testifying on my very humble Singing Through Fire podcast.
02:07:16.627 --> 02:07:22.467
I mean, I just know on behalf of the audience, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for joining me today.
02:07:22.828 --> 02:07:23.007
Oh.
02:07:23.518 --> 02:07:25.497
Thank you, and you're such a blessing.
02:07:25.497 --> 02:07:29.057
And your, your interviews, I think you're one of the best interviews.
02:07:29.057 --> 02:07:30.057
It's such a blessing.
02:07:30.068 --> 02:07:30.078
Aw.
02:07:30.787 --> 02:07:33.677
Just how you, your, your personality and your bubble.
02:07:33.988 --> 02:07:37.587
You just bubble up- and your spirit is so amazing, so powerful.
02:07:37.597 --> 02:07:38.217
Thank you.
02:07:38.238 --> 02:07:38.768
I love you.
02:07:38.967 --> 02:07:40.828
Thank you, Susie, and I love you, too.
02:07:40.877 --> 02:07:42.728
Everyone needs to get her book.
02:07:42.787 --> 02:07:44.497
The book is coming out next year.
02:07:44.497 --> 02:07:46.047
It's called Freedom Shoes.
02:07:46.108 --> 02:07:48.228
You are just gonna be bawling throughout.
02:07:48.417 --> 02:07:50.457
Susie, thank you so much.
02:07:50.698 --> 02:07:58.417
We praise the Lord for you, for your testimony, and just may all of the Lord's blessings be shining upon you in this new season.
02:07:58.648 --> 02:07:59.967
Thank you, and God bless you.
02:07:59.988 --> 02:08:00.457
Thank you.
02:08:00.514 --> 02:08:05.014
Be sure to hit subscribe because I upload content every week to help other sufferers.
02:08:05.573 --> 02:08:06.984
To God be the glory.