Shoulder Roll Virtual Boxing Podcast

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The seconds are out, the crowd is waiting, the boxers
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are getting ready to battle. Time for another edition of
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the Shoulder Roll Virtual Boxing Podcast with your presenter Greg Rashid.
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I want to say Swattie crocked everyone out there, which
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means hello on tie. This is Greg Rashid with another
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edition of the Shoulder Roll of Virtual Boxing Podcast, heard
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at your convenience anytime on the on the internet, be
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a YouTube, Facebook, wherever you listen to the program. But
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a lot of people listen every Sunday afternoon at three
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pm Mountain time on Kuhs Denver dot com. Created by
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the one and only Henry Archerlettter. I want to say
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hi to all my friends in the Colorado region. I
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keep saying I'm coming back there to business. I am.
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I'll be there. I'll be there next year at some point.
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But I'm surprised everyone. You never know. But anyway, I'm
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here right now in Bangkok and join it. Loving being
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here and loving doing another show. And I want to
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thank all the folks that are tuning in and different.
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Every time I look at my analytics, I see a
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new country. It's just so amazing. The Netherlands. It's like
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my goodness. I'm just so thankful for this and that
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you're tuning in and we're going to have, as always
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a great show. And if you're new to the program,
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what we do here is one fantasy fights. We use
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various modalities, be it card and dice games, computer games.
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For today we're using Legends of Boxing two PC game
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created by Gary Brown to do our fight. And also
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we do real We talk about real boxing, what's going
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on in the real world of boxing and other combat sports.
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And at the end of the program we do some
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music because that's why I called us a boxing variety show.
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And we also have like debates on here. We have
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interviews with folks in the world of sports and boxing,
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and I say sports. Sometimes we have folks who aren't
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in boxing, but they're interesting. I want to have him
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on here. We have authors on here, boxers and just
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a little bit of everyone's fans of the show. We've
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had them on here. And also from time to time
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we have debates. And I want to say, because people
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have asked about where is he the return of Knockout
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Nigel not as a commentator, but he he wants to
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do a segment now from time to time just like
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Malcolm and Ella do as far as discussing different issues.
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So he and the Green card girl Kiki are doing
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a segment today on AI in boxing, and they won't
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tell me where they are. It's undisclosed location. I don't
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know where they are, but I do know that he's
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not drinking any bubbly. But anyway, Knockout and Kiki, you
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gonna talk about AI and boxing flow take it away,
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Kiki in Knockout in Nigel.
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Boxing has always been about raw human skill and instinct,
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but artificial intelligence is stepping into the ring to revolutionize
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everything from judging to fighter safety. The question isn't if
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technology will change the sport, it's whether we're ready for
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what comes next.
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That's fascinating timing because traditional boxing circles are pushing back
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hard against this tech invasion. What's driving this sudden push
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for AI in such a historically traditional sport.
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Well, let me break down what's happening. We're seeing sensors
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that can track punch accuracy, power and placement with incredible precision.
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The technology is already being tested in some major venues
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and the early results are pretty eye opening.
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Hmm.
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But doesn't that feel like it's stripping away the raw
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authenticity that makes boxing special.
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You know, that's exactly what I thought at first. But
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here's the thing. The AI isn't trying to replace human judgment.
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It's actually enhancing our ability to see what's happening in
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the ring. Think about those controversial decisions we've all seen
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that have literally ended careers.
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That's a fair point about bad calls, But what happens
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when the AI makes a call that everyone disagrees with.
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Well, here's where it gets interesting. The latest systems are
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actually providing complete transparency in their decision making process. Every
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scoring decision can be backed up with data that anyone
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can review.
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So if we're talking about transparency, how exactly does this
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technology work in real time?
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The systems use multiple layers of analysis. They're not just
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counting punches. They're analyzing punch quality, ring control, defensive skills,
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and even fighter fatigue patterns. But here's what's really groundbreaking.
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They can detect concussion symptoms before they're visible to the
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human eye.
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Oh wow, so this is actually about fighter safety too.
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That's not the angle I expected.
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Exactly right. Recent studies show these AI systems can spot
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subtle changes in a fighter's movement patterns that might indicate
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head trauma. We're talking about potentially preventing those tragic cases
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where fighters take unnecessary damage.
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But what about the cost factor? Won't this create an
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even bigger divide between wealthy gyms and smaller operations.
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Here's something surprising. The cost of basic AI training systems
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has dropped dramatic. Some small gyms are already using smartphone
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based applications that provide sophisticated movement analysis for a fraction
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of what high end systems cost.
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That's encouraging, but I'm still wondering about the soul of
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the sport. Boxing has always been about heart and determination.
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Well check this out.
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When they studied fights where AI analysis was available, they
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found it actually helped highlight those moments of extraordinary human achievement.
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It's like having a microscope that helps you appreciate the
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complexity of what these athletes are doing.
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You know what, This reminds me of the resistance to
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instant replay when it was first introduced in other sports.
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That's exactly the parallel we should be looking at, And
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just like with instant replay, we're seeing a hybrid approach emerge.
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The current proposals involve a fascinating three tier system, real
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time AI analysis, traditional human judges, and a rapid review
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system that flags significant discrepancies.
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But what about the practical implementation? How do we ensure
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this technology is used fairly?
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The solutions being proposed are pretty innovative. They're developing blockchain
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based systems to secure fighter data with strict protocols about
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who can access what information and when. It's like creating
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a digital vault for each fighter's performance metrics.
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That sounds incredibly complex. Won't this make boxing less accessible
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to newcomers?
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Actually, the opposite is happening. The technology is making it
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easier for new fans to understand the sport. When you
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can see the strategy and skill broken down in clear
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visual ways, it helps people appreciate the nuances they might
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have missed.
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So maybe this isn't just about improving the sport as
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it is, but about evolving it for the next generation precisely.
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And here's what makes this moment in boxing history so fascinating.
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We're watching a century's old sport adapt and evolve while
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trying to preserve its essential character. It's like watching tradition
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and innovation juke it out in their own kind of match.
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Well, you've actually made me see this whole debate in
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a new light. It's not really about technology versus tradition
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at all, is it.
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No, And that's the key insight here. It's about finding
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that sweet spot where technology enhances rather than replaces, the
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human elements that make boxing special. From what we're seeing
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in early trials, we're getting closer to finding that balance
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every day. This is Knockout Nigel with Kiki the ringcard girl.
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I will now return you to our Bangkok studio cheers.
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Thank you so much to a Kiki and Knockout for
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that report. And I know a lot of you is
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so happy to hear his voice again, But I don't
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know where he is. I do know that he won't
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be commentating on any fights because I found out when
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he went and saw the psychiatrist that the smell of
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arenas and this boxing, just boxing in general, gems you name,
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it has a weird effect on him and it makes
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him drink a lot of bubbly. But anyway, thank you
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so much for it again, knockout in Kiki, And right
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now we're gonna get to the main event here. And
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this is a oh man, this is middlewaight, and they
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barely missed each other in real life, but that it
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would have been an amazing fight if they had gotten together.
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But this is gonna be an amazing fight too. And
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this is what I'm talking about is middleweights. Marvelous Marvin
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Hagler versus James lights out Tony a classic. And I
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know somebody out there saying, lights out Tony, it's a slob.
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If some of you remember him as just being overweight,
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not in shape, but even then he could battle. And
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I put him as far as all time boxes period
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in my Top twenty. You watch him, that guy and
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had amazing shoulder roll and he could do everything, and
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he would just standing in the middle of the ring
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and you couldn't hit him. It was just amazing. Even
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when he was overweight, he was out of shape, but
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he's still he had the skills. I think right now
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there are some middleweights he could beat right now. You know,
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maybe some heavyweights because he is over like a two
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hundred and twenty some pounds now, but I think he'd
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do it. He had those skills. They never go away.
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But anyway, you're gonna get to this fight there right now.
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The commentator is Isaac Wa. So sit there, get your
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favorite beverage and listen to the fight between Marvelous Marvin
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Hagler and James Tony on the Shoulder Roll Virtual Boxing Podcast.
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Time to lace them up for another main event. Hi,
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this is Eyes at White, your favorite boxing analyst. We're
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coming to you live from the electric atmosphere of the
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Thomas and Mack Center in Las Vegas, Nevada, where the
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air is thick with anticipation and the scent of sweat
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and leather gloves. Tonight, folks, We've got a clash of
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titans in the middleweight division, a dream matchup that's got
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the boxing world buzzing like a hive of angry hornets.
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In one corner, the relentless stalker, the man they call
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Marvelous Marvin Hagler. In the other, the slick, defensive wizard
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James lights out Tony before we throw down the first punch.
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Let's take a quick dive into the legacies of these
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two warriors, because you can't appreciate the magic without knowing
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the backstory. Starting with Marvelous Marvin Hagler. Oh what a name,
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What a fighter. Born Marvin Nathaniel Hagler on May twenty third,
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nineteen fifty four, in Newark, New Jersey. He turned pro
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on May eighteenth, nineteen seventy three, and built a career
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that was nothing short of legendary. Over fourteen grueling years,
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Hagler racked up a record of sixty two wins, three losses,
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and two draws, with a whopping fifty two of those
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victories coming by knockout. That's the kind of power that
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could crack concrete. He ruled as the undisputed middleweight champion
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for seven straight years from nineteen eighty to nineteen eighty seven,
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defending his title an incredible twelve times, which stands as
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the second most defenses in division history. Remember that war
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with Thomas Hitman Hearns in nineteen eighty five. The first
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round alone was a firefight. Hagler absorbed bombs and came
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back swinging like a freight train, stopping Hearns in the third.
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Then there was Roberto Hands of Stone Duran, whom he
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outpointed in a brew lit fifteen rounder, and that controversial
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split decision loss to Sugar Ray Leonard in nineteen eighty
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seven that still has fans debating over cigars and whiskey
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Hagler was a southpaw with an iron chin, a pressure
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fighter who switched stance's mid fight if it suited him
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and his combos. Now turning to the other side of
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the ring, James Tony, the man with the shoulder roll
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that could make a ghost miss, the jab like a piston,
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and a stare that says, come get some. Tony burst
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onto the scene in the early nineties, turning pro in
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nineteen eighty eight after a stellar amateur career and quickly
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became a nightmare for any one in his path. We're talking,
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We're talking a career spanning over two decades with titles
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in three weight classes, middleweight, super middleweight, and light heavyweight,
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plus a cruiserweight strap later on. His record a testament
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to toughness seventy seven wins, nine losses and three drawers
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with forty seven knockouts. And get this, he was never
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stopped in ninety two professional fights, absorbing punishment that would
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have folded lesser men. Tony's defensive genius is the stuff
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of master classes. Head movement so fluid it's like he's
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dancing with shadows, blocking shots with those broad shoulders while
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firing back with fast hands and respectable pop high lights,
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high lights, Oh where do I start? That nineteen ninety
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one middleweight title win over Michael Nunn where he dropped
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him cold with a left hook, or the tactical masterpiece
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against Vasili Jiroff in two thousand three, picking him apart
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round by round, And don't forget the upset knockout of
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Evander Holyfield in two thousand three. Lights out lived up
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to his name, crumpling the heavyweight legend with a sneaky uppercut.
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Tony's always been the counterpuncher, supreme throwing volume while making
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opponents swing at air and his trash talk sharper than
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his right hand. The crowd here in Vegas is on
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their feet. Referee Kenny Baylis calls them to the center,
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gives the instructions. They touch gloves with respect, but you
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can feel the electricity. Hagler five feet seven inches of
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coiled fury and black trunks, south, poor stance, locked and loaded.
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Tony same height, but broader in gold and black. That
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trademark snarl on his face. The bell for round one.
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It's like two grand masters circling the board, probing for weaknesses.
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Hagler explodes out of his corner, stalking forward with that
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bob and weave menace, trying to cut off the ring
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early feet shuffling like a predator in the grass. Tony
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cool as Ice circles to his left, popping that piston
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jab testing the distance, landing one flush on Hagler's guard
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that echoes off the mike. You hear the crowd murmur
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as Tony lets loose a flurry four five punches in
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a blur, a left hook glancing off Hagler's temple while
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a straight right sneaks under the elbow. Hagler doesn't flinch.
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He presses, faints a south poor lead, and fires a
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compact right cross that Tony slips with that legendary shoulder roll.
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The marvelous One resets paws with his left to draw
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Tony in, but lights out is a ghost, dancing back
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and countering with a sharp uppercut that clips the chin.
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No damage, but the volume is all Tony CompuBox has
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him at twenty eight punches thrown to Hagler's fourteen Already.
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Hagler lunges to close the gap midway through, but Tony
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pivots and tags him with a body shot that makes
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Marvin grunt. The round winds down, with Hagler pinning Tony
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on the ropes for a brief moment, ripping a hook
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to the ribs, but Tony slips free like smoke. Balis
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calls it end of round one, a tactical draw, but
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Tony's busier folks Hagler back to his corner, eyes like lasers,
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Tony smirking, knowing he dictated the pace. The Brocton Blockbuster
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advances as round two begins, weaving under a jab and
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countering with a thudding left to the body that folds
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Tony just a hare ooh you heard that one slap
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the canvas. Tony recovers quick fires back a three punch
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combo jab cross hook that pepper's Haggler's face, reddening the cheek. Already,
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the crowd roars as Marvin cuts the ring sharper, forcing
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Tony toward the blue corner, where he unloads a south
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poor strait that Tony blocks, but follows up with a
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vicious hook, grazing the ribs. Tony's volume is relentless, though
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he's circling, jabbing from angles, throwing twenty five in this
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round alone, while Hagler measures stalking throwing eighteen but landing fewer.
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Tony faints low. Haggler bites and slips a right cross
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over the top crack, but Tony ducks and rips to
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the body in return. No one's hurt, but the chess
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is on Haggler trying to herd him like cattle, Tony
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slipping the noose every time. Late in the round, Tony
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pins Haggler against the ropes with a jab barrage and
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sneaks a left hook home that snaps Marvin's head. Back
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bell sounds and Tony struts to his stool while Hagler
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shakes it off, trainer Goosen telling him cut that ring
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Marv cut it. Tony edging it on activity ten to nine,
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Where underway and three, Hagler faints a charge, draws Tony's jab,
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and counters with a looping right that whistles past the year.
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Tony laughs it off, circles wide, and unleashes hell a
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five punch flurry jab jab cross hook uppercut that has
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Hagler covering up the crowd on its feet as shots
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rain down like confetti. Marvin weathers it balls inside and
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rips a double to the body, making Tony clinch for
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the first time. Baylor separates him, and Hagler presses footwork
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impeccable angling to trap Tony in the red corner. Lights
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out explodes out with volume punches thrown, now landing a
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crisp straight right that stings Hagler's eye, swelling it just
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a touch. Hagler roars back, faints low, and unleashes a
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left hook that Tony blocks, but follows with a shoulder roll. Escape.
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Its back and forth chess, but Tony's pawing jab is dictating,
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keeping Marvin at bay while he picks spots for those counters.
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End of the round. Hagler lunges desperately, but Tony slips
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and tags him on the exit. Another ten to nine
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for the Slickster and the arena's buzzing. These guys are
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mirrors of each other. Round four begins. Hagler opens aggressive,
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charging like a bull, cutting off Tony's left side and
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landing a thudding body hook that echoes. Tony grimaces but
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fires back instantly a jab cross combo that reddens Haggler's nose.
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The Marvelous One doesn't blink. He circles, resets, and stalks again,
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forcing Tony to the ropes, where he unloads a three
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punch burst left right, left that Tony parries with those
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magic shoulders. Volume from Tony surges midway. He's throwing in bunches,
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slipping Haggler's counters and landing a sneaky uppercut that clips
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the chin. Hagler presses harder, weaving under a hook and
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ripping to the mid section, but Tony pivots free counters
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with a left hook to the temple that has the
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crowd gasping. No knockdowns, no wobbles, just pure tactical warfare.
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Hagler herding, Tony, evading and outworking. Late round, Tony pins
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Hagler briefly and peppers the guard before the bell. Tony's
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busier again, taking it ten to nine, but Hagler's pressure
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is building. Round five is underway. Tony jabs early, keeping
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Hagler at spear's length, then circles right into a southpaw
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lead that Marvin ducks and counters viciously right cross left hook.
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Both blocked, but the intent is clear. Hagler cuts the
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ring like a surgeon, forcing Tony toward neutral corner, where
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he unleashes a body assault three hooks that make lights
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Out reset his feet. Tony responds with fury, a seven
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punch combo jab cross jab hook, upper cut cross hook
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that has Haggler shelling up the shots, thudding off gloves
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and arms like drum beats the crowd's electric chanting toe knee,
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toe knee as he outlindes twelve to six in the flurry.
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Haggler balls back in clinches to slow the pace, but
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breaks clean and fires a straight left, grazing the cheek.
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It's faint counter slip chess at one hundred sixty pounds,
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Tony's volume at thirty five thrown Hagler twenty, but Marvin's
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landing the harder shots. The round ends as both wink
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at each other. Round six begins and Haggler comes out weaving,
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00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:39.480
slips a jab, and rips a counter hook to the
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body that folds Tony's guard for a split second. Lights
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Out shakes it off, circles left and peppers with jabs,
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four in a row, one sneaking through to puff Haggler's
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eye more. Marvin stalks relentlessly footwork poetry, cutting angles to
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trap Tony on the ropes. There he unloads left to
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the head right to the body hook upstairs. Tony blocks
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most but takes a body shot flush that makes him WinCE.
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Tony explodes out, throwing thirty punches in the round, a
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cross landing clean on the jaw while slipping. Hagglers follow up.
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No one's backing down. It's push pull, with Haggler pressing
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the action and Tony making him pay for every inch.
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00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:26.720
Late in the stanza, Tony faints a hook, draws the counter,
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and rips an upper cut to the chest bell. Tony's
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volume wins the round ten to nine, but Haggler's wearing
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him down. Folks, We're deep in the trenches now. Round seven,
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Haggler faints low, draws the jab, and counters with a
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vicious right cross over the top that Tony slips, but
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follows with a body hook that thuds home, lights out, resets,
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circles wide and unleashes a barrage jab cross double hook,
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landing too clean on Hagler's guard. The crowd roaring as
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volume hits twenty eight. Thrown Vin doesn't fold. He advances,
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cutting the ring diagonally, forcing Tony to the blue corner,
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00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:08.599
where he rips a south poor combo left straight right
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00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:13.200
upper cut, both partially blocked, but the pressures mounting. Tony
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counts sharp a left hook, glancing the temple, then a
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straight right that snaps the head back exchange at center ring.
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Hagler misses a hook, Tony doesn't, tagging the ribs. It's
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tactical brilliance. No wild swings, just calculated chest moves. Tony
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outworks it again ten to nine, but Hagler's eyes say
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he's loading the cannon. Tony opens round eight with jabs,
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keeping distance, then slips inside for a hook to the
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body that Haggler absorbs like a sponge. The marvelous one charges,
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weaving under a cross and firing back a three punch
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burst left right, left. Tony rolls with the first two
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blocks the third, but you hear the leather smack. Haggler
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cuts off the retreat path, masterfully pinning Tony midway and
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ripping to the mid section, drawing a clinch brake, and
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Tony erupts. Thirty two punches thrown, a flurry of jabs
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and hooks, peppering the face. One cross landing flush, reddening
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the cheekbone crowds on fire vagus loving the back and forth,
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00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:20.400
Hagler resets, faints a southpaw lead and lunges with a
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00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:25.000
hook miss, but Tony counters to the body, no hurt,
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00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:30.799
pure skill. Haggler stalking Tony boxing bell, and Tony takes
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00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:34.039
it on the cards with activity. Round nine starts with
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Haggler pressing early footwork tight forcing Tony toward the ropes.
383
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There he goes unloading a hook cross combo. Tony blocks,
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00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:45.200
but slips a counter jab that puffs the eye lights out,
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circles out fire's volume jab jab cross hook, uppercut five
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in a blink, landing three. The uppercut clipping the chin.
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Haggler roars, bulls forward and rips a body hook that
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00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:01.720
makes Tony clinch, gasping just a bit it. Bayalas prizes
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00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:06.079
them apart and the chess resumes. Tony pawing, drawing, counters,
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00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:09.160
slipping two Hagler rights before tagging back with a straight
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00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:14.799
left thrown punches Tony thirty Hagler twenty two, but Marvin's
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00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.960
landing heavier. Late round exchange, Hagler misses a big left,
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00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:22.200
Tony doesn't with a hook to the ribs. Tony's busier
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edge holds ten to nine. We're in the Championship rounds folks.
395
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As Round ten begins, Hagler stalks with purpose, fainting to
396
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draw the jab and countering viciously right, cross to the head,
397
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:37.720
hook to the body. Tony covers, rolls, and fires back
398
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a four punch flurry jab cross, hook, jab, peppering the guard.
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The crowd's deafening as Marvin cuts the ring, trapping Tony
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00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.839
in the neutral corner for a body assault. Three hooks
401
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.880
that echo, making lights out. Reset with a WinCE. Tony
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00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.799
responds with genius, slips a straight, counters with an upper cut,
403
00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:00.839
then circles, throwing twenty nine. In the round, Hagler presses
404
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:04.960
relentlessly a left hook, grazing the temple late, but Tony
405
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.119
blocks and tags on the brake. Tactical stalemate, but Tony's
406
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:15.799
volume shines. Ten dash nine, lights out. Hagler comes alive,
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00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:19.599
weaving and charging, landing a south poor straight right that
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00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:23.480
stings Tony's nose, drawing first blood. To begin round eleven,
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lights out, shakes it, circles left and unleashes six punch combo,
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landing four hooks thudding off the arms. Hagler absorbs, counters
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with a body hook and presses cutting angles to herd
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Tony across the ring. Tony's volume at thirty four thrown
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jabs snapping like whips across, landing clean while slipping two
414
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big rights. No one's wobbling, but the chess is fierce.
415
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Faint slip counter midway, Hagler pins him on the ropes,
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ripping upstairs. Tony ducks and rips low at the bell.
417
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Here we go the final frame. Haggler explodesads like a volcano,
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throwing vicious combinations from the jump left hook, right cross,
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left uppercut. Tony blocks most but backs up the crowd,
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00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:13.799
erupting as Marvin stalks with murder in his eyes. Lights out,
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circles jabs to keep distance, but Hagler closes, ripping body
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00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.240
head combos that have Tony covering desperately. Volume from Tony
423
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.119
slows under the pressure. He's throwing fifteen, but Hagler's at
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twenty five, landing heavier a straight right snaps the head
425
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:34.799
back with thirteen seconds left. Oh my god, folks, Hagler
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00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:39.160
faints low, unleashes a monster right cross, staggers Tony bad
427
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.599
knees buckling as he falls into the ropes, the arena
428
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:47.599
exploding Hagler swarms to finish, hooks flying, but the bell
429
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saves lights out. Tony survives slumped on the ropes, Hagler
430
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:56.480
roaring in frustration. What a round for Hagler, but was
431
00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:00.279
it too little, too late? The fighters embrace center ring
432
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:04.640
mutual respect. As the scores come in. All three judges
433
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:06.759
see it one hundred and fifteen to one hundred and
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thirteen for James Tony. The winner by unanimous decision of
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this twelve rounder is James Tony. He threw the most
436
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punches over three hundred to Hagler's two hundred and twenty
437
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and blocked the majority of those Hagler bombs. What a
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chess match, folks, brilliant from both. I will now return
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00:28:24.200 --> 00:28:27.680
you to our Bangkok studios. Keep your guarden punches up.
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00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:31.839
This is Isaac White, your favorite boxing analyst peace out.
441
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:36.000
Thanks so much Isaac for their commentary. And I could
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you know the thing about Hagler, He's one of my
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favorite fighters, as will but in big fights, and I'm
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talking about the Hearn's fight, but there would be moments
445
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who would kind of get a little cautious look at
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the durand fight he had that he wasn't as aggressive
447
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the first Interfermal fight, you know he'd get even in
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a Sugar Ray Leonard fight, he wasn't as aggressive as
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he usually is. And I don't know it was a
450
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big fight. I don't know what it was. But I
451
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could see him doing the same thing for James Tony,
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who's slipping, his sliding, you know, just doing the shoulder role,
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double clutching the punches. I could see that happening, and
454
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that he would never you know, he would never hurt Hagler,
455
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:29.519
but it'd be frustrating the volume of punches. So I
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can actually see that. But what do you think? What
457
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do you think? But and again for those of you
458
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like I don't know if James Tony could do that,
459
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look at his old fights, look at his style, look
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how he fought. He was, Like I said, he's one
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of my all time favorites. He's in my top twenty
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as far as this fighters period, not middleweights fighters period.
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And where I put Haggler. Hagler is above Tony because
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with them a real life now, but only is in there.
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I mean, Tony is something. But anyway, what do you think? Well,
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00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:05.440
right now we're going to switch up now because we
467
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:08.480
got to talk about a little bit of boxing history
468
00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:11.599
on the Shoulder Role Virtual Boxing podcast, and who else
469
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:14.319
can do that but the one and only your favorite
470
00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:21.000
martial arts expert champion herself, Jessica. So take it away, Jessica.
471
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:24.599
This is Jessica, your martial arts champion with your boxing
472
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:28.680
history for the week of October twelfth through October eighteenth.
473
00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:34.039
October twelfth, twenty thirteen, Timothy Bradley defeated Juan Manuel Marquez
474
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:39.160
by split decision October thirteenth, nineteen thirty six, six to zero.
475
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:42.680
Escobar retained the world bantamweight title with a first round
476
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:47.440
knockout over Indian Quintana October fourteenth, two thousand and six.
477
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:52.680
Michael Kessler unified the WBC and WBA super middleweight titles
478
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:57.079
after knocking out Marcus Bayer. October fifteenth, two thousand and five.
479
00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:00.759
Reggie Strickland lost for the two hundred seventy sixth time,
480
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:05.759
a record for the most professional defeats. October sixteenth, nineteen
481
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:09.920
forty two. National Boxing Association froze the titles of those
482
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:14.400
serving in the Armed Services. October seventeenth, two thousand and nine.
483
00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:18.279
Arthur Abraham defeated Jermaine Taylor with less than ten seconds
484
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:20.599
left in the fight. As part of the Super Six
485
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:25.839
Tournament October eighteenth, two thousand and eight, Bernard Hopkins defeated
486
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:28.279
Kelly Pavlick via unanimous decision.
487
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:31.119
You know, I really want to get I hope I
488
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.079
can get him on a show. I think he's in
489
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:38.880
Ohio for Reggie Strickland, who has the record. He's last
490
00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:42.480
or over almost three hundred some fights. I think he
491
00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:47.680
won maybe seven of them. But he you know, I've
492
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:51.480
seen interview interviews with him many years ago. He he
493
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:54.960
just loved the sport and he as people will talk
494
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:57.480
about him, he was competitive. He want just some bum
495
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:01.000
but he would just lose fights. I'd like to really
496
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:02.720
talk to him and maybe we'll get him on a
497
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:05.000
show at some point. Yeah, never know, but you know,
498
00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:08.000
we'll try our best to get him on here. Right now,
499
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:12.519
Jessica has another story here. This is about a Sebastian Fundora.
500
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.000
So let's hear that on the Should to Roll Virtual
501
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:16.359
Boxing podcast.
502
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:20.640
Sebastian Fundora's October twenty fifth WBC Junior Middleweight title defense
503
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.359
against Keith Thurman has been postponed due to a hand injury.
504
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:29.000
Fundora suffered in training. Fundora's manager Sampson Lukowitz and Premier
505
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:33.279
Boxing Champions representatives confirmed the injury and postponement with ESPN
506
00:32:33.319 --> 00:32:36.599
on Friday, and that the entire event will be postponed.
507
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:41.400
Fundora will return in January twenty twenty six. Lukowitz told
508
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:45.440
ESPN Fondorra and Thurman were set to headline the PBC
509
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.359
on Prime pay per view fight card at the MGM
510
00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:53.119
Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. Representatives from PBC stated
511
00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:55.440
that they hope to get the fight rescheduled as soon
512
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:58.680
as possible once the nature of Fondora's hand injury and
513
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:02.960
recovery time is diagnon. The co main event between WBC
514
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:07.599
Junior Lightweight champion Oshaki Foster and featherweight title holder Stephen
515
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:11.039
Fulton will be rescheduled for a later date. It is
516
00:33:11.079 --> 00:33:14.240
the second time that Foster Fulton will be rescheduled, after
517
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.799
they were initially linked to fight in August on a
518
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:20.680
proposed Gervonte Davis versus Lamont roach fight that ended up
519
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:21.759
not materializing.
520
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:25.359
Thank you so much for that, Jessica. And yeah, we'll
521
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:28.640
see what happens with Fador. He I mean, he's he's
522
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.559
becoming one of my favorite fighters, but I like his
523
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:34.119
system more. She can really named Gabriella, and I always
524
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:36.160
talk about her and I'd like to get her on
525
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:40.920
the program too. You know, she's an amazing fighter. Anyway,
526
00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:44.799
he'll up soon, Sebastian, so we can see you in
527
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:48.839
the ring against Keith Thurman and them is interesting. I
528
00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:50.839
don't like him as a fighter, but as a person
529
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:54.880
I do. But that's a whole story in itself. But anyway,
530
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:57.119
we're going to get right now. I want to tell
531
00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:00.920
you this. There's a book fare. Those who know me, no,
532
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:03.119
I love going to books fairs no matter where I
533
00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:05.200
am in the world, and they have a number of
534
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:07.799
them here in Thailand. And I went to one the
535
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:12.639
other day and got this book, The Knockout Sports Most
536
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:17.000
Decisive Moments by Andy Clark, and it's from Britain. It's
537
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:18.360
a hard book to get and I was lucky to
538
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:22.400
get it over here. And I mean, I'm hoping to
539
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:24.159
get maybe I'll get Andy on here at some point.
540
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:28.159
But I was about to read the book, and then
541
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:31.480
Malcolm and Ella took the book from me and they
542
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:35.360
read it. The pociferously read it, and they want to
543
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:38.119
do a review of the book and talk about knockouts
544
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:40.800
in general. So I said, okay, go right here, So
545
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:45.199
right now, Malcolm and Ella talking about knockouts on the
546
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:48.360
Shoulder Row Virtual Boxing Podcast.
547
00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:52.880
Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today. We're honing in on, well,
548
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:55.920
perhaps the single most decisive moment in all of sport,
549
00:34:56.559 --> 00:34:57.840
the knockout in boxing.
550
00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:00.880
Yeah, and we're using commentator and author and Clark's book
551
00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:04.320
The Knockout, sport's most decisive moment as our guide.
552
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.480
Our aim here is to go quite a bit deeper
553
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:09.920
than just the spectacle, the shock of the punch, right.
554
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:14.719
We want to really unpack the psychology, the physiology, even
555
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.239
the social side of the knockout, what it actually means
556
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:20.920
for everyone involved, the fighter, the ref the corner and
557
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:22.159
us watching.
558
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.719
And Clark really sets the stage. He uses some pretty
559
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:27.960
dramatic language, calls it the greatest finish in all of sport.
560
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:32.639
He does also boxing's money shot and the ultimate sporting cataclysm.
561
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:34.159
Big words, but they.
562
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.320
Feel earned when you consider his core point. The knockout's
563
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:40.280
power lies in its utter finality exactly.
564
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:42.840
Think about it, a last second goal, a buzzer beater
565
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.880
in basketball. Those moments are huge but they usually happen
566
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:48.960
because the winner was already like within striking distance, as
567
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:49.559
Clark puts it.
568
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.000
So the score of the game, situation, it all builds
569
00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:52.320
up to.
570
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.880
That point precisely. But a knockout it just wipes everything
571
00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:59.280
away instantly. The clock doesn't matter, the scorecards are irrelevant.
572
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:01.079
It's just over.
573
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:04.599
There's no opportunity to come back, that sudden, absolute end.
574
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.679
That's what sets it apart, utterly unique in that sense.
575
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:11.280
Okay, so let's start unpacking this. Clark actually breaks the
576
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:13.960
knockout down, doesn't he. It's not just one thing.
577
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:14.360
Now.
578
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.639
He identifies two main types, which is quite insightful. First,
579
00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:20.599
you've got the type one KO. That's the single punch.
580
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.000
Knockout, the highlight reel stuff.
581
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:26.760
Yeah, exactly spectacular. He calls it shocking sudden, the fight's
582
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:30.480
over before you or the fighter really processes the hit.
583
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:33.280
We're talking about those iconic moments, right like Sugar Ray
584
00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:37.039
Robinson's left hook on Gene Foulmer back in fifty.
585
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:40.840
Seven, perfect example, or Marciano catching Jersey Joe Walcott boom
586
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:43.920
heavyweight title changes hands just like that. It's almost a
587
00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:47.039
poetic in its brutality. Then there's the other kind, right,
588
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:50.840
the type two knockout. Klepp describes this one as slow
589
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:55.320
by comparison, grueling, and crucially often preventable.
590
00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:58.320
This is the one that feels harder to watch sometimes.
591
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:02.400
It is, he calls it torture, breaking the will. It's
592
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:05.320
that slow accumulation of damage where a fighter is just
593
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:09.400
beaten down until their body or spirit finally gives way.
594
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:13.519
And thinking about that type two, that cumulative damage, it
595
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:17.000
makes you consider fight frequency, doesn't it. Like look at
596
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:17.920
young Mike Tyson.
597
00:37:18.039 --> 00:37:21.000
Oh yeah, his pace was unbelievable the fight.
598
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:24.000
Where he won his first title, knocking out Trevor Berbick
599
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:26.679
in eighty six. That was his thirteenth fight of the
600
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:28.119
year thirteen.
601
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:30.840
That's just wild, especially when you think about the wear
602
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:33.599
and tear, the risks of that kind of breakdown.
603
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:33.920
KAO.
604
00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:36.840
Compare that to later champs, right, like Holmes.
605
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:38.639
Or Lewis maybe fighting two three times in the year
606
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:42.320
before they won their titles. Tyson was just relentless.
607
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:44.320
Putting himself at an enormous risk, really just through that
608
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:45.159
sheer volume.
609
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:47.960
So, Okay, we have these types of chaos, but what's
610
00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:51.480
actually happening inside the body? What's the science behind the
611
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:52.239
lights going out.
612
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:55.719
Well, it's basically biomechanics. Doctor Neil Scott, who's the chief
613
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:58.599
medical officer for the British Boxing Board of Control, he
614
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.559
explains it off and it's a punch landing on the
615
00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:05.079
jaw or the chin, and the forest travels exactly. The
616
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:09.000
shockwave goes along the lower mandible, you know, that sort
617
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.519
of horseshoe shape, and it transmits force right up into
618
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:13.239
the brain stem.
619
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:15.599
So it's not just the impact spot, it's the ripple
620
00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:16.719
effect precisely.
621
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:20.239
Sonny Liston, who knew a thing or two about punching power,
622
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:23.199
had a pretty graphic way of describing it. He said,
623
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:27.239
the brain is like jelly sitting in fluid inside the skull,
624
00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:30.199
kind of in a series of cups, and a really
625
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:33.199
violent impact basically rattles the brain out of those cups.
626
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:35.679
That jarring causes a system shut down.
627
00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:38.599
The blackout. Is that like a safety mechanism sort of.
628
00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:41.800
Yeah, it's the body's defense a system overloads, shutting things
629
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:47.559
down temporarily, and interestingly, sometimes hitting the canvas can actually help. Paradoxically, Yes,
630
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.599
the impact with the mat can sometimes jolt the brain
631
00:38:50.679 --> 00:38:52.239
back into place, which is why you might see a
632
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:55.239
fighter momentarily seem to wake up during the count.
633
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:59.039
Wow. Okay. This leads us into maybe the most fascinating part,
634
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:03.039
the mental side the head games. Clark talks about this
635
00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:05.119
paradox of delusion fighters need.
636
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:07.039
Yeah, this is where it gets really complex. It's about
637
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:10.199
psychological compartmentalization. It's a skill, really, how.
638
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:11.400
Does that work well?
639
00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:15.559
To train properly intensely, a fighter has to accept that
640
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:19.440
getting knocked out is a real possibility, that fear is
641
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:23.880
actually useful fuel. It drives the focus, the dedication in camp.
642
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:25.679
That then something has to change on fight.
643
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:29.480
Night completely, usually during the ring walk, or maybe just before.
644
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.880
They have to, as Clark says, flick.
645
00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:34.880
That switch and just decide it's impossible.
646
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.400
Basically, yes, they have to convince themselves absolutely that defeat,
647
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:41.480
especially by knockout, is just not going to happen to them,
648
00:39:41.559 --> 00:39:42.079
not tonight.
649
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.360
Most is a trauma. That young heavyweight actually said something
650
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:48.159
like you need to be delusional at times to be great.
651
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:52.280
That captures it perfectly. You're holding these two opposing ideas,
652
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:56.599
acknowledging the risk to prepare, but denying it utterly to perform.
653
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.000
It's an incredible mental tightrope walk and.
654
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:02.079
When that belief system gets you shattered, the experience itself,
655
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:05.800
it's often just gone, isn't it avoid totally?
656
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:09.320
Amre Khan described it vividly, getting hit, not knowing where
657
00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:12.360
he was, feeling like a jigsaw puzzle that's been smashed
658
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:15.159
and you've got less than ten seconds to somehow put
659
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:16.320
those pieces back together.
660
00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:20.079
It's just terrifying. And then the memory loss seems almost.
661
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:23.400
Standard, frighteningly so. Tony Blue said he had no memory
662
00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:26.679
of the post fight interview. After the Yusik fight, Carl
663
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:30.199
Frotch couldn't recall being announced as world champion after beating Pascal.
664
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:33.519
Significant moments just white stolen.
665
00:40:33.639 --> 00:40:38.079
Yeah, and think about the flip side. The knockout artist,
666
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:41.639
the guy whose whole identity is built on delivering KOs.
667
00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:43.840
What happens when they get knocked out.
668
00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:45.840
Deontay Wilder comes to mind immediately.
669
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:49.440
Classic example, when you're stalking trade. Your whole aura is
670
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:52.599
based on that power, and suddenly your cloak of invincibility
671
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.320
is ripped away. The psychological damage is immense.
672
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:57.559
You saw it with Wilder, didn't you, The humiliation, the
673
00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:59.639
confidence just gone.
674
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:02.599
Absolutely shattered, and look how he reacted after the losses.
675
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:06.360
The excuses about the costume, the gloves, anything, but confronting
676
00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:09.519
the possibility that his power wasn't absolute. It shows how
677
00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:11.400
fragile that psychological.
678
00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:13.760
Armor can be, which brings us to the responsibility right.
679
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.880
If the fighter is maybe delusional, maybe pushing past limits,
680
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:20.519
who steps in the third party's refs and corners, and the.
681
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:25.199
Pressure on them is enormous, life altering, even the referee especially,
682
00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:28.559
they're the sole arbiter of safety in that moment.
683
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:29.840
But it's not just safety, is it.
684
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:33.840
They're juggling things exactly. Fighter welfare is number one theoretically,
685
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.239
but they also have to weigh the scale of the fight,
686
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:39.400
the money involved for everyone, the fact that it's the
687
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:40.800
entertainment business.
688
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:45.719
Referee Charlie Fitch had that analogy, comparing getting this stoppage
689
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:48.119
right to hitting the apex of a pyramid.
690
00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:51.880
Yeah, meaning it's almost impossibly difficult to get it perfectly right.
691
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:54.760
You're always likely to be a fraction too early, or
692
00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:56.920
more dangerously, a fraction too late.
693
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:00.199
Does that kind of undermine the whole idea? Then, if
694
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:03.280
perfections is impossible, are they always failing in some way?
695
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:08.280
That's a tough question. It highlights the incredible reliance on instinct, experience,
696
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:12.119
and maybe just luck. And the trainers they face the
697
00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:14.960
same agonizing decision from the corner, throw the.
698
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:15.480
Towel or not.
699
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:18.519
Joe Gallagher, the trainer, he had a pretty clear guideline,
700
00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:18.960
didn't he.
701
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:21.480
A very practical one? He said, If your fighter is
702
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:23.679
taking a beating and the only way they can win
703
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:26.719
is by doing something that he's never done in his
704
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:28.360
career before, never done in the.
705
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:29.840
Gym, then you have to pull him out.
706
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:33.519
You have to stop it because otherwise, Gallagher says, you're
707
00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:37.280
basically just setting them up for a highlight, real knockout situation.
708
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:39.400
You're failing in your duty of care.
709
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:42.360
But then you have the raw reality, like trainer Billy
710
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:43.079
Grant put.
711
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:45.760
It, Yeah, that was blunt, he said. Look, in the ring,
712
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:48.840
fighters do want to hurt the opponent. They want to
713
00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:51.280
keep hitting them until they drop so they'll stop hitting you.
714
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.800
It's primal self preservation mixed with aggression.
715
00:42:54.920 --> 00:43:00.159
Absolutely, and that instinct combined with the warrior code, it
716
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:02.199
complicates things massively.
717
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:03.920
Like Tony Blue is saying taking a knee would be
718
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:07.239
the greatest dishonor that pressure they put on themselves.
719
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:10.360
Right, it forces them to push on often past the
720
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:14.159
point of safety, because quitting feels like a bigger failure
721
00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:18.159
than getting physically stopped. It's a dangerous mindset driven by
722
00:43:18.199 --> 00:43:19.360
pride and expectation.
723
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:24.360
It's this strange conflict. The job demands aggression, but your
724
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:27.880
survival depends on someone else protecting you from your own bravery.
725
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.239
Essentially, it's a profound dichotomy at the heart of the sport.
726
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:34.679
Okay, let's shift focus slightly to us the audience. Clark
727
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:38.480
talks about this bloodthirstiness, even links it back to the
728
00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:39.480
Roman colisseum.
729
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:42.199
Yeah, he points out this really ambivalent reaction we have.
730
00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:46.840
We crave the knockout, right, boxing wouldn't be boxing without knockouts,
731
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:49.360
as he says, it's the ultimate climax.
732
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.639
But then the mood shifts instantly if a fighter goes down.
733
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:57.599
Hard completely, that collective hush, that gasp, the thrill evaporates
734
00:43:57.639 --> 00:44:01.239
and it's replaced by genuine worry because in that second
735
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:04.320
you grasp the reality that person on the canvas could
736
00:44:04.360 --> 00:44:06.840
be seriously hurt, could be alive or dead.
737
00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:09.599
Commas Houser made that point about TV too, that it
738
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:11.400
cosmatizes the violence.
739
00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:14.519
Yeah, makes it cleaner, maybe more abstract. Than it is ringside.
740
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:16.679
He argued that up close, you feel the weight of
741
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:19.119
the punches, you hear the sound, see the raw reactions.
742
00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:20.800
It's much starker, which.
743
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:24.719
Might explain why certain knockouts feel easier to process, like
744
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:27.159
the recent Anthony Joshua versus Dubois Fyte.
745
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:29.519
That's a good example of what Clark might call the
746
00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:34.880
perfect stadium pay per view box office knockout. Joshua was
747
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:37.000
counted out, it was decisive, but.
748
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:39.800
He wasn't unconscious Glass eight on the floor. He was
749
00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:41.199
up relatively.
750
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:45.639
Quickly, exactly, and that lack of immediate, terrifying visual trauma
751
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:49.599
lessens that bitter actor taste for the crowd. It delivers
752
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:53.159
the finality without forcing the audience to confront the ugliest
753
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:55.400
potential consequences too directly.
754
00:44:55.639 --> 00:45:00.320
It's interesting looking back historically how KOs defined legacies. There
755
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:02.679
was a bit in the sources about who really beat
756
00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:03.119
the best?
757
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:05.840
Yeah, measuring fighters by their Hall of Fame opponents. It's
758
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:07.119
a classic boxing debate.
759
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.800
Floyd Mayweather claimed he beat more than anyone. What was
760
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:10.239
his count?
761
00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:13.320
The sources put him at seven recognized Hall of famers,
762
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.360
possibly eight if you count Pacio, who isn't inducted yet
763
00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:17.320
but surely will be.
764
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:18.599
And Pacio himself.
765
00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:21.079
Patio beat eight fighters already in the Hall of Fame,
766
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:22.239
solid number.
767
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:23.880
But the undisputed king, according to.
768
00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:27.880
The sources, still Sugar Ray Robinson. Just incredible. He defeated
769
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:32.440
eleven Hall of famers names like Lamatta, Basilio, Fulmer Graziano
770
00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:33.880
just legend after religion.
771
00:45:34.119 --> 00:45:35.920
That really puts dominance in perspective.
772
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:38.280
It does, and it ties back to the risk, doesn't it.
773
00:45:38.360 --> 00:45:41.559
Every one of those wins involved facing someone capable of
774
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:45.840
delivering that knockout blow, which leads to maybe the ultimate
775
00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:49.719
aim for any fighter, which simply to leave the sport
776
00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:53.119
having taken more from boxing than boxing has taken from them.
777
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:57.000
It sounds simple, but given the risks, especially the knockout,
778
00:45:57.280 --> 00:45:59.960
it's an ambition very few truly achieved.
779
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:04.280
So wrapping this up, the knockout is so much more
780
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:07.199
than just a punch, isn't it. It's this intense psychological
781
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:08.159
drama playing out.
782
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:12.000
Yeah, it forces fighters to confront the deepest fears mortality
783
00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:15.119
maybe while giving us the viewers this raw glimpse into
784
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:18.239
human vulnerability under absolutely extreme pressure.
785
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:19.400
It really is unique.
786
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:22.679
And think about this as a final thought, that absolute finality.
787
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:26.280
We've discussed other sports tried it and recoiled. Remember football's
788
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:27.199
golden goal rule in.
789
00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:30.840
Overtime vaguely, Yeah, first score wins game over instantly, right.
790
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:33.840
And it didn't last long. Fans broadly didn't like how
791
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:37.519
sudden and irreversible. It felt too abrupt, maybe too brutal.
792
00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:40.760
So the question for you listening is what if other
793
00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:44.760
popular sports had kept that kind of immediate, decisive, knockout
794
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:47.800
style ending, would we find them more compelling or less?
795
00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:50.960
Would we watch more or tune out? Something to think about.
796
00:46:51.800 --> 00:46:54.960
It definitely is thank you so much Ellen Malcolm for
797
00:46:55.039 --> 00:46:57.960
that report, and please give me my book back so
798
00:46:58.039 --> 00:47:01.519
I and read it, enjoyed that and again the book
799
00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:06.760
they're talking about is Knockout Sports Most Decisive Moments, and
800
00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:09.639
it's by Andy Clark. Check it out if you can't,
801
00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:11.920
if you can get it somewhere, you know, because it's
802
00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:15.239
a British book, and a lot of the book fans
803
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:18.840
over here in Thailand they have books from Britain and
804
00:47:18.920 --> 00:47:21.280
ask stuff from America. A lot of friends of mine,
805
00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:23.960
when I tell them that I've seen their books over here,
806
00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:27.920
they always surprise. So, but yeah, it's great. You know,
807
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:30.119
I hope to read it. I'm sure it's a great book,
808
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:32.760
but check it out. But right now, we're going to
809
00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:35.320
go into the music segment of our program and we're
810
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:40.119
gonna have Durian Funk with their new one. This is
811
00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:45.599
duri and Juice featuring Fargus, the High Priests of the
812
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:48.920
Stinky Funk, and he's gonna be on lead right now.
813
00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:52.280
So let's hear Durian Funk and Durian Juice on the
814
00:47:52.360 --> 00:48:11.760
Shoulder Room Virtual Boxing Podcast.
815
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:21.360
Hey mama, got that stocking shell, so you gotta crack
816
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:22.480
it open here.
817
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:27.679
I can't kid enough things, even the ride, feel the
818
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:33.880
heat rise up, buff soft, creeping bad, fill my hunger coat,
819
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:41.400
sweat driven down. But I ain't backing off, twisting, grinded, slow,
820
00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:47.480
make that will saying walp, he won't juice, he won't juice.
821
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:52.519
Squeeze that dory until the river lawn street.
822
00:48:53.840 --> 00:49:01.320
Again, stinking gotta mean nuts, holler and hustle. Yeah that's
823
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:06.639
the key. Choose me out, Sabe, don't you stop the flow,
824
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:11.679
gord it hiding heaven. Let the good time.
825
00:49:13.159 --> 00:49:18.960
Keep you spon, Jess all night long.
826
00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:21.480
I'm gonna make that food explode.
827
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:36.400
Oh yeah, got the press in my hand, pushing down
828
00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:37.079
real tight.
829
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:43.199
Seed's popping out, baby, What a devil ish sight that
830
00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:44.679
aroma hits Hall.
831
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:46.800
Like a freight train coming.
832
00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:51.320
Got me howling at the moon. No time for me,
833
00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:54.039
even messy on the table.
834
00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:56.360
But I love the thrill.
835
00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:01.519
Digging deep a doll And chase, that juice, juicy thrill.
836
00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:05.119
Keep sake bone jica.
837
00:50:05.639 --> 00:50:09.440
I'll just squeeze that dory until the relful bombs.
838
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:12.800
Please, sticky and stinking.
839
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:20.679
It's coming me nuts, but I hollering awsome, Yeah, I'm sticky.
840
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:21.400
Choose me.
841
00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:28.079
Don't just stop the floor booring hot in heaven that.
842
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:36.599
The good time rod, keep one, juice, depound juicy, not long,
843
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:59.119
gonna make that food explode.
844
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:02.519
Got the pass in my hand, pushing down real kite.
845
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:07.840
See it's popping out, baby, for the devil, this sight
846
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:12.639
that Aroma hits had like a freight train.
847
00:51:12.519 --> 00:51:19.599
Coming, got me howling at the moon. No time for running,
848
00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:23.559
I see on the table, But I love the thrill.
849
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:29.280
Digging deep a doll And chase that juicy thrill clone
850
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:34.000
juice bone juicy on you.
851
00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:43.559
Please to the river runs free, stick stink us all
852
00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:50.880
and hustle, don't quit get ride juy up, don't stop
853
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:52.679
the flow.
854
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:56.360
Let it over the floor.
855
00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:01.679
Lone juice juicy, don't jose.
856
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:05.039
To men fever, gonna lose.
857
00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:47.159
Oh Lord, Bangkok Knights got me twisted. Ain't no scobby,
858
00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:54.519
you're gonna bite this soul. I stepped off that boat
859
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:58.559
in the Bangkok he sweared, running.
860
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:02.239
Down like a cheating hands. Lie. Yeah, I stepped off
861
00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:03.199
that boat.
862
00:53:03.559 --> 00:53:08.880
In the bank hock heat, feeling lost in Lord, wondering
863
00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:13.679
why that street vendor grin pushed that black scorpien skew
864
00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:16.480
in my way, said it.
865
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:18.599
Set my spirit free.
866
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:23.519
Folks back home whispered by my wildways. Call me dirty
867
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:30.360
for chasing shadows. Brother, Yeah, they whispered about my wildways.
868
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:35.480
It's judging hard like I done lost my court. But
869
00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:40.159
I ain't swallowing that poison tail, No, sir. It stings
870
00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:46.400
worse than a lover's cool. I ain't even no black
871
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:48.280
card being in Bangkark.
872
00:53:48.559 --> 00:53:49.119
You don't know.
873
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:53.239
It burns too deep in my bone. Nord, haven't hurt.
874
00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:55.159
I ain't needn't no black.
875
00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:56.239
Carpie under nigh.
876
00:53:56.679 --> 00:54:01.920
He gonna leave that dell below, Lord home, Let it
877
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:04.400
crawl all back to the market's.
878
00:54:04.039 --> 00:54:11.400
Dark heart while I ridess from this fall and down from.
879
00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:23.039
He promised me He's silk and sweet mango dreams left
880
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:25.519
me broken a kneon lit cage.
881
00:54:27.039 --> 00:54:28.519
Yeah, he promised.
882
00:54:28.119 --> 00:54:32.000
Silking them mango dreams. So now I'm dodging the rains
883
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:37.920
and the rage. That scorpion's eyes gleamed like his lying grin,
884
00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:39.840
But I got.
885
00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:43.519
My bluess to keep me unchained.
886
00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:49.719
Society's eyes cursed like temple bells, tolling, branding me falling
887
00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:54.280
for dancing to free. Yeah, they pierce like them best,
888
00:54:54.400 --> 00:54:58.519
talling load saying a woman's place ain't overseas.
889
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:03.400
But I struck these streets with my head held high,
890
00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:07.360
refusing that bite that's meant to break me.
891
00:55:08.440 --> 00:55:13.360
Ooh, I didn't know black scorpion in bang don't know
892
00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:17.199
it burns too deep in my ball switch.
893
00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:20.480
I didn't know black scorpion a NYE.
894
00:55:21.639 --> 00:55:24.440
Gonna leave that devil alone.
895
00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:30.599
Let it crawl back to the market's dark heart, while.
896
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:34.000
Our eyes from this fall.
897
00:55:33.920 --> 00:55:35.519
And din from.
898
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:44.800
Betrayals.
899
00:55:44.920 --> 00:55:53.119
A scorpion in every strange land stings the soul till
900
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:56.559
it bleeds out the truth. But I'm on my way
901
00:55:56.679 --> 00:55:58.480
through the hurt and the scorn.
902
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:05.440
Planning my garden in this foreign youth, nor more swallowing lies.
903
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:10.960
That tastes like defeat. Oh honey, I'm done with that
904
00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:12.079
bitter dissease.
905
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:26.679
I no blacks conneal in bang No God, he this weary.
906
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:29.159
On my house.
907
00:56:30.840 --> 00:57:09.559
So now all right? That was Angel Glow, a new
908
00:57:09.599 --> 00:57:12.800
performer over here in Bangkok. And that was I ain't
909
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:17.239
eating no black scorpion in Bangkok. And only those who
910
00:57:17.239 --> 00:57:19.480
have been over here will know what that means. But basically,
911
00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:23.679
you can eat bugs on a stick black scorpions, you know,
912
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:28.400
when you're over here, especially in Bangcock and sometimes and
913
00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:32.519
and Patty and Pouquet, but mainly in Bangkok, you'll see
914
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:36.039
vendors with the black scorpion on a stick. If you
915
00:57:36.079 --> 00:57:38.239
want it, you can eat it. I haven't eaten them yet.
916
00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:41.079
I've eaten some bugs, but not those, not yet. And
917
00:57:41.199 --> 00:57:44.199
before that we did during Funk, that new one that
918
00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:47.719
was during and Juice. I hope you enjoyed that on
919
00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:51.079
the Shoulder Road Virtual Boxing podcast. But I gotta get
920
00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:52.960
out of here right now. This is Greg You're presenter
921
00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:55.280
of the program. Go in love and go in peace
922
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:57.400
and help someone along the way. And when you get
923
00:57:57.440 --> 00:57:59.599
up in the morning, get up, give yourself a big
924
00:57:59.679 --> 00:58:02.679
hug and say you love yourself. If you don't love yourself,
925
00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:05.639
you don't love anyone. You can't do anything. So just
926
00:58:05.800 --> 00:58:08.079
love yourself and then go out in the community wherever
927
00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:11.400
you are and do what you can to help someone,
928
00:58:11.559 --> 00:58:14.639
be it a young person, a senior, and need an
929
00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:19.039
animal you may see in distress, animal that won't bite
930
00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:21.920
you or hurt you anywhere you know. Or pick up
931
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:24.559
trash in your neighborhood. Don't wait for somebody else. You
932
00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:26.920
see trash on the ground, pick it up. Do what
933
00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:29.719
you can. Because we're on this big blue ball together.
934
00:58:30.679 --> 00:58:32.800
Do what you can to make it a better place.
935
00:58:33.199 --> 00:58:37.000
There are folks who are starting wars and creating rumors
936
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:38.639
and wars, but do what you can to make it
937
00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:42.280
a peaceful place. It's Greg Rasheed again. See you next
938
00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:47.239
time on the Shoulder Room Virtua Boxing Podcasts. Take care.
939
00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:51.519
Thanks for tuning in. Please remember to like, comment, share,
940
00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:55.119
and subscribe to this podcast. Please become a member at
941
00:58:55.239 --> 00:59:00.639
patron dot com under the title Ringside Fantasy Fights and News.
942
00:59:01.119 --> 00:59:01.960
See you next time.