WEBVTT
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Welcome to the Shift Dirts.
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Before we dive in, we acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands where we record.
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Michelle and Rosemary work on the lands of the Bun Morang and Warangeri people of the Kulin Nation.
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We pay our respects to elders past, present, and emerging.
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As we talk about transitions and shifts in our own lives, we recognise that First Nations people have been adapting, surviving and thriving on this continent for over 65,000 years.
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The world's longest continuing culture.
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Sovereignty was never seeded, always was, always will be.
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So, Rosemary, how are we stirring the shift today?
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I'm not sure.
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I think you're going to tell me.
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You don't know how we're stirring the shift?
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Well, Rosemary, we are doing a podcast where we are all in the same room.
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And we've got the lovely Donna and Anna with us.
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And yeah, that's stirring the shift as far as I'm concerned, Rosemary.
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It certainly is.
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Do you know why we stir the ship first more?
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No, I don't.
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You don't.
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We do it so that people who are interested in changing their lifestyle from a corporate career to a more artisian lifestyle can actually listen to what other people are doing and get curious about that change.
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So I'm Michelle Benson.
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And I'm Rosemey Patterson, and we are the shifters.
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Yay! Thank you.
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Okay, welcome Donna and Anna.
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Now we do.
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Hi guys, thank you for having us.
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Would you like to tell me a bit about yourself, Dana?
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Okay, I see myself as a sculptor and installation artist.
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I use um natural materials like bone, fish skin, pig gut that I clean and tan and um bring into my art.
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Oh beautiful, beautiful.
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I've worked with both Dana and Anna and their work is fantastic.
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Anna, would you like to describe your work as well?
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Sure.
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So yeah, I'm a ceramic artist from Sydney originally, but I now live in like in Melbourne.
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I usually work with Vecil.
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Or most of my work will use slip in some way.
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Very interested in looking at gesture and movement within different forms of slip, be it liquid or viscous.
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That's okay, that's fascinating.
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We're really happy to have you here.
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This is going to be a giggly one, I can say.
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Um I can't.
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Now, what we're going to talk to you about today is about how to set up a gallery exhibition.
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So a lot of people, um, a lot of our listeners are in their emerging stages of being an artist.
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They're probably on their first, their second exhibition.
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Roseme and I were fortunate enough to do an exhibition with yourselves and the lovely Amy Cohen, who is not with us today.
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But we got so much from, I learned so much from you ladies.
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So I just thought this would be something that our listeners would be interested in too.
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Um, Roseme, would you like to ask the first question?
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Yes, and Michelle, we did it in this room, your studio, so that was a lot of fun as well.
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It was fun.
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And I am asking Anna.
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You come from the graphic design and digital media, incredibly controlled films.
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Your ceramic work is more spent on tones, if I'm right, with gesture and action.
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How has that design background influenced how you think about installing and displaying your work?
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Yeah, it's it's a huge influence.
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Um it's you know, I didn't know designer, so it's about a an easy one to shake off.
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Um and all those design skills that I've learnt and um you know can carry through strongly into exhibition setup or design.
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And I think a lot of artists actually intuitively have a lot of those skills and ability to see.
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I think how things are aligned and contrast and repetition, all those kind of design principles that you know artists probably engage with without realizing it, maybe.
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So yeah, it's it's been um a huge influence, and I've had a long career in graphic design.
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You know, I'm always happy to use my graphic design to do any promotional materials for exhibition.
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What a grave extra to your house.
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It's it is lovely.
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Um I think I was thinking that when you said about the um intuitiveness of putting uh installing your work, and and I think that's that is something that you learn as an artist to trust that instinct.
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And I think we all do that with you know in your books and in your your ceramic works.
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And I and I think that's one of the most difficult things to learn or or to let go or to yeah, to let go of no, it's to trust, isn't it?
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To trust is that instinct.
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And that's yeah.
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Maybe time or you know, some people just seem to have it, but it's taken me a little time to trust.
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And I well I think that's how it worked really well with all of us here, because when something was off, there was so many other people that could say, Oh yeah, okay, I see that, and what about if you try that?
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And and they offered different ways of of just moving, even it was just slightly to the left or to the right.
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It you know really helped bring it all together.
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Yeah, and that was a collective absolute yeah, yeah.
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That's great.
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That's wonderful.
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Your materials, bone, gut, copper, skin, hair, they're not conventional gallery materials, and I remember them hanging up here.
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You knew what you wanted, which installing work that's both fragile and has such a presence.
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What have you learned about displaying those pieces over the years?
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I think it's it is that trust that we were talking about.
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So um I think originally I thought everything that I made was really fragile and I was really worried that um that they would move too much or they might you know, might fall apart.
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I I don't know.
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I think that um having it here, what what was wonderful was that everything that I was nervous about actually became a bonus.
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It was such a plus.
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I learned so much about how because previously when I had had an exhibition, everything was in a tight environment.
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So it had a plinth on the floor, it didn't allow people to walk through the work.
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And so I entered this exhibition with this huge fear of, oh my gosh, there's you know, people are going to be banging it and and walking through it and touching and in actual fact, because that happened, I grew so much in that one, I trusted my work, and two, there was such awe and wonder both ways.
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So from people who were walking through it, but also for me to watch their faces and how they were experiencing the work.
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So I guess this uh doesn't answer the question, but then I've just I've gone off somewhere.
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But that was, yeah, it was really exciting, and it was such a huge lesson for me.
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I've really walked away going, Wow, okay, it's opens up doors of of other ways that I can do my exhibition.
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Huge benefits of um, you know, if you haven't exhibited much before, is just getting out there and doing it because you're gonna see your work in a different way, and it's really exciting to have it, you know.
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It's just a small exhibition.
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We set it up opening night, you've got people coming in, gauging, and you Yeah, it's you don't see yeah, it's very informative.
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Everything is informative, that's exactly right.
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I'm I'm gonna add to it to that and say that I've been to a couple of exhibitions lately.
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Names I can't remember.
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I always think of her as the dot lady and yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, that's what and uh she her work is so immersive.
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And I think that my perception of when I exhibit and how I exhibit has changed because of experiencing her work.
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That's fantastic.
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Yeah, I think that that's something if you haven't done an exhibition before and you're thinking about doing one, go to big exhibitions.
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Yeah, because uh even we went to the Vivian Westwood one, which we were actually doing a podcast on.
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We learned so much going to that, and the way they present them these days and the immersiveness of them is just incredible.
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Yeah, that's that's a good learning.
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Oh, yeah, it's you go in with that in mind, you know, the curse of the designers.
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You're always kind of looking at, oh, how is that thing done?
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Do but yeah, you do, and um it's nice just to put that lens on for a minute when you're in a new exhibition and just just look around and see how things are done.
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Big and small.
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Lighting, I think we didn't have much lighting in here that we played with, but lighting is so important, and and and in my next exhibition, lighting is gonna play a huge part, actually.
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A huge part.
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That's great.
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I remember Anna, you working with your pints for a long time and changing them.
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This question is about what makes a display resonate.
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So your work seeks resonance with the natural world.
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Like when you walk into a gallery and see your work installed, what's going on there?
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So you've hit the nail on the head, I think, with lighting is really key, especially the porcelain work.
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And just like considered lighting, I think, is is also I mean I like exhibitions that have created a mood and a story.
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I find it's they really resonate.
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You know, you're kind of guided through the space and nothing's jarring.
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Go to the next, be it visually or thematically.
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And yeah, you it it's a space that guides you through.
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You know, you know, you get to some shows that are too crowded or too many works and you don't want to go in there.
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I think you get lost in it, don't you?
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Yeah.
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Well, because you want the pieces for people to spend time with each piece.
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And it's it's like going into an op shop and it's really crowded, and I just have to walk out because I can't I can't think enough.
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So really I think it is.
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It is it's pulling back and and allowing each piece room to breathe.
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I love that.
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And you know what?
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I I think about that statement all the time now.
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Have to let the work breathe.
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It's gotta stop being so cluttered.
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And in fact, some stuff that I'm working on at the moment, I'm now I'm thinking about this hand myself, is it breathing enough?
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So yeah, it is something that is always, always in the back of my mind.
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And I think Donna helped you with your letting it breathe, whether how many things to display.
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That's correct.
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Can you talk about that?
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Well, I actually had when we had our exhibition here, I had I think 24 paintings ready to hang.
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But I ended up only hanging five.
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Um, and I'd also got some porcelain masks, which I I still have up there.
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And um I hung them.
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And I think that it was the fact that there was less there made what was there look more uh not important, but it all could speak.
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Yes.
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That so it could breathe and speak, which I think is very important.
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That they played off each other, so it it may it gave that whole space an air of where we could go in and experience it.
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Whereas if it had been cluttered, it would have been just where are we going here?
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What am I supposed to look at?
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You know, what what am I supposed to understand from this?
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And I think that's where it is, isn't it?
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It's just trying to focal point.
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Yeah, to understand what you're trying to say, or I don't know, I don't think it's about trying to understand it.
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It's about trying to have presence, isn't it?
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Yes, room to see and so Donna, your question was similar.
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That's they've sort of almost done it anymore from you on that about making work truly sing, and especially with your other world worldly stillness.
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Well, I think um I kind of like the the word sing, but uh for me I really aim for stillness and presence.
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And I like the idea that one, the work asks people to stop and feel and breathe.
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You know, just that to remember to breathe.
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Because I think we live in such a fast-paced world that we're it's full of media and social media and you know, it's all bang, bang, bang, fast, it's all got to be over in a second.
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And I think we just all need to just stop and breathe and to feel and listen again to what we have already.
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Um yeah, I think that's it's just oh you know what's a lot because you've got such beautiful details.
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So you get the right lighting and you draw and you're fascinated by it because you're wondering what it's made out of.
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Um, but also when we had the exhibition here and they were just shifting ever so lightly and they're dangling down, just very soft movement.
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It was just stunning.
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Thank you.
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I'll get you to send me photos of the work from that exhibition so that I can actually add them to the podcast and people can see what we're talking about.
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Because you know, Donna, I can still visualize your work in here.
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I can I I I have beautiful plants hanging out there, but I I can still if I close my eyes, I can still see your work.
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And that to me means that it really made a statement in me.
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So it's from all your wisdom now we're on to um mistakes for our listeners.
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Um I know, but but with your designer, you'd probably have a trained eye for what else sort of some mistakes you might want to tell our listeners okay.
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You know, the types of exhibitions I've been involved in, some have been, you know, more at the ward shows where you send your work in and you really don't get a say.
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So let's make that click.
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Yeah, you can write down, and I've done this with special needs that it has, and it gets ignored.
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So just be prepared for that.
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If you're sending your work off to a you know, a show that's curated elsewhere.
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Um yeah, and and actually, like because I've had a lot of things go a bit wrong with that, and I I don't think I would enter work that has conditional.
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Having said that, and I agree, because I've also had that where you feel like your work was overshadowed by something my mind's very earthy, so you can yeah, if it's full of something that's really bright, they kind of don't work together at all.
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But having said that, with the last exhibition, group exhibition I was in, they were so careful with the way they displayed it.
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I was really overwhelmed by that.
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I was something like no, but it is something, yeah.
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So that there is good out there, but just I guess what I was saying is once you've released it, you don't have control.
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You don't have control.
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And unless it's a painting that becomes quite challengeable.
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I I can I can tell you a story and um uh um of someone very close to me that I know very well.
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Uh a prince in Paris when she was in Paris, and um took it in to get it framed and said to the frame, well, you framed it wrong.
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And the frame said, No, this piece is supposed to be standing up.
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I said, No, no, no.
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She's a newt by Monet, and she's supposed to be lying down, and um, yeah, it was supposed to be standing up.
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And Monet.
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When it comes to comes to that, really, whoever takes it away can do whatever they like with it.
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Well, that's that's yeah, yeah.
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And this is an aside from what you're saying, but uh I believe that once you've created something and it goes to someone else, it's it's it's it's its own person, its own story.
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It creates its own thing.
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So you're no longer in control of that.
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Yeah, yeah, you're rough.
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Release the control.
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But then I guess my other advice is the flip side of that, which is more the artist run initiatives and that kind of you're doing everything yourself.
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So that's um I think I've been in situations where artists hadn't really thought of you know, so just taking the time to prepare before you come in, like get everything, lots of preparation, make sure if you need to get shells and things sorted that you do that.
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Don't necessarily rely on the space to provide that for you.
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Often they will, but um they might not be in the best shape.
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You know, I you know, just painting a plinth as well can really enhance your work.
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I think it's a certain type of white, which works well with my porcelain, for example.
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That's a good thing to consider, and I think um, yeah, when you're setting up a show and you know, everybody's there and everyone wants to be respectful of everybody in space.
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Sometimes a leader will kind of come out, and other times, you know, it's like, no, what do you want?
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Yeah, what do you want?
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Like everyone's usually love too lovely, anyway.
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Um so it can be a long day of just negotiating.
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It is important, I think, at some point.
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No, no, no, I agree.
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I I have to admit that this was the first group show that I'd ever set up that put works into group exhibitions and you've got no say in it.
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And the other exhibitions, the solo ones I've had, I've been in control of where it's going, but I've had somebody to help me install it.
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So it's um yeah.
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But so this was the first one, and and I think you were the you were a great leader, Anna.
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I think I think there was a lot of clarity between everyone.
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I think it worked out really well.
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I think we all Tom, of course, Tom Ells.
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Who actually came and um did a lot of the installation, which took pressure off us?
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Oh, it was fantastic, yeah, yeah.
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And he had such great experience and and he had his own aesthetics and he his aesthetics sort of reached us reached in with all of us, didn't it?
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But like we all agree that that it was all it was all good with.
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I think it made made it um cohesive.
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.440
Yeah, right.
00:17:53.839 --> 00:18:01.759
I was thinking that when you're actually in a group exhibition and everybody's got different things, getting that cohesive feel.
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.440
And a lot of people did say to me, oh wow, it's cohesive.
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:09.119
So getting that cohesive feel I think is very, very important.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:16.559
And that was the the flow that Adam was talking about was you know entering in and then having a direction, how to flow around the room.
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:21.759
And if you watch, most people had that direction, almost like a figure eight.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:25.119
Yeah, and we turned we didn't know what children was installing, didn't we?
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:25.599
No.
00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:34.559
It was quite a feat actually to sit to look at all our works and work out which ones resonated with each other and where they needed to sit in relation to each other.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.119
And I think that short period of time we did.
00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:38.480
And we did very well.
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:48.240
But I think what was one of the best things that happened with that is that you had invited us here prior to the setup day to get to know the space and understand it.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:53.039
I guess that in that way we kind of had where things may or may not go.
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:54.480
Is it lunchtime, Michelle?
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:58.160
Too it's uh for me though, uh it's left me with a beautiful feeling.
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:06.559
I think it blessed this studio in a way because um I I'm I d uh to to actually have an exhibition in here again would be a feat.
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:10.240
I'd have to hire a taxi truck on a taxi truck.
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.960
And I don't think I could I I don't think I could do it.
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:14.799
So it's got lovely memory.
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:20.000
It was such a good idea, and it was um yeah, it was really beautiful.
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:24.079
Um not just on your eye, but you seem to work on each other's.
00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:38.400
I think um well, I think that was um not so much the installation part, but our work, the work that I bought in because I knew um what Amy's her uh textile work was, I bought work in that really complemented that.
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:42.720
I mean I bought a heap of other things which we didn't put out because they weren't necessary.
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:47.119
Um so I chose the ones that complemented each other and it was it was exciting.
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:48.720
We had that moment of a buzz.
00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:50.640
So oh, these were great together.
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.160
And it was really funny because we were all happy just sitting hanging around.
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:54.640
Yes.
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.039
The whole again, we were just all happy just hanging around.
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:58.880
Yeah, in the space, it was nice.
00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:00.160
So we've got feeling nice.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:05.119
So um let's move to the next question, and I'll just ask it and see who wants to answer it.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:05.359
Yeah.
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.960
That's how we're going, isn't it?
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:15.200
So um when we talk about how installation transforms experience, we've talked about the flow of demand setup.
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:23.599
Um, how can you give an example of um how the installation might have changed the way people engaged in the experience?
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:38.720
I can I can give an example of that um some of the work I did at uni, which has a lot of pieces, and I install that in a room at uni, and it's kind of my first experience of like understanding what it means to activate a space.
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:44.480
Like I had the work hanging, I I couldn't control the lighting so much, so it was natural lighting mostly.
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.279
But a lot of space between these objects.
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:56.319
Watching, I like with your work done, and watching people just walk amongst it and that very quiet, sort of contemplative state they got in.
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:58.720
I was quite like amazed by it actually.
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:00.319
And um it was lovely.
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:12.480
And then I did the same, I displayed the same piece of work in a gallery setting, which was a bit more controlled, the pieces were closer together, and the light was such a different feel, I can't tell you.
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:25.279
Like it sort of put people outside of work, just not even because of the way like you could still sort of walk near it, but the lighting of it as well gave it but you stepped back from it rather than moving in.
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:27.759
Yeah.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:34.000
But the benefit of that particular show was it had all these beautiful shadows came off the work.
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.119
So I think they were both successful.
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.039
Um exhibitions, I just think displays, I should say.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:46.640
But um it was just really, really informative for me to see the work in those two environments.
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:47.519
I learned a lot.
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:52.640
Yeah, I think um that's interesting because I had a my last solo the exhibition.
00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:01.279
I I um I really wanted my work to be in like more still and and have that uh find a Balance within it all.
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:05.839
And the gallery put this bright light on it.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:13.279
Which was lovely because it had copper bits and it and it kind of picked up my nose and all and there was a lot of shimmering things happening.
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:15.680
But there was a lot of shadow.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:24.240
And um like the shadows from my work, I think they're gorgeous, but I was a little bit overwhelmed by the shadows because I thought it took over.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:25.440
Shriveling it.
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:25.839
Yes.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:28.480
So but that was on opening night.
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:32.160
During the day, when the light was coming through the windows of the gallery, it changed.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:39.920
Then it softened the shadows a little bit, which I was so glad to see because I really I didn't want the work to be about the shadows.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:41.279
I wanted the work to be about the work.
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:42.079
Is that what I said?
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:44.880
So anyway, it lighting can be a challenge.
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:46.319
That is a funny way, isn't it?
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.400
It was always opening night, and the words can look really different from the rest of the show.
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:54.000
Can I throw in a curveball question?
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:55.359
That's that's not the question.
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:02.720
I've used um Erin as our sound designer recently, and she's creating the background music in this podcast.
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:06.640
Uh and uh I've learned a lot about sound from Erin.
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:13.680
And I was wondering, have you used sound in your excessions in certain ways to actually transform an exhibition as well?
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.640
That's really great.
00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:15.680
That's a great question.
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:21.440
I have in the past used sound for outdoor exhibitions.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:28.640
And it is it was meant to create uh, you know, another world being used to bring people into an attorney table.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:39.599
Um, one one exhibition that's they were done, it's like a done on the um train station, uh one of the um rooms in the old uh train stations.
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:44.960
So passers by and people commuting can can see your art.
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:52.559
And this particular piece had a heartbeat that went for it, but they asked us to turn it off because it was scary.
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:55.519
It was a book book.
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.400
So you know, maybe sometimes you have to think about it.
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:16.559
I've been thinking about the uh, you know, bringing music for ages in with my art, but then I wonder if it will, especially with my installations, whether it will steer it too much for people not to let allow the viewers to have their own mind, you know, make up their own mind about their and finding like their selves in it.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:20.160
You know, it would be made yeah, it's it's something that could be quite fun.
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:22.480
It c it it could it could be a lot of fun.
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:29.440
Um and it's something that I'm thinking about for my next ex for my exhibition when I'm when when it gets it gets finished.
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:35.359
Yeah, it's definitely something that I think it's uh yeah, things that it's really worth looking into.
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:44.160
Well we we looked at it with the podcasts and I think it's we um it makes a big difference because you can use it to change the tempo of a conversation.
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.559
Uh you can use it to make something some more serious or more sad.
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:50.720
And I I learned all that thank you, Erin.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:51.759
I learned all of that.
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:54.960
We should keep moving because I have got no idea how long we've been going.
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:56.960
I've got no idea either.
00:24:57.440 --> 00:24:58.079
That's okay.
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:00.319
Um, great.
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:13.279
So practical wisdom for first-time installers for someone who is going to be installing their first solo show and they're working with unconventional materials, maybe not burning gut at something challenging.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:14.559
So for you, Donna?
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:17.759
I'd say yeah, I think I think that's a great question.
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:26.720
I definitely think that you have to know your materials, and I don't I don't think it matters what you're using, you just have to know your materials, how they move.
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.640
You need to, I'll guess again, overcrowding.
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:31.519
Don't overcrowd.
00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:33.279
Give everything space.
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:39.599
And and that's something like you said, Michelle, you made all these beautiful paintings, but you didn't use them all in your exhibition.
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.240
I make a lot of work, but they don't all go in.
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:42.640
Yes.
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:50.400
And I think that there are certainly I've been to a couple of exhibitions where I just wish they'd pulled back a little bit.
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:52.880
You know, there there were too many ideas happening.
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.920
Um, and and I'm not saying that I'm perfect because I love it.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:01.519
But yes, when you just think, okay, but you've got this idea and you've got this idea, you've got this idea and you've got this idea.
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:03.839
What happened if you pulled at least two of them out?
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:04.079
Yeah.
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:06.480
And then just kept the two flowing.
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:16.160
And I think your idea of a a retail store is a good idea for an emerging artist to think about you're walking and wear so much stuff, you just walk straight out.
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:16.880
Yeah.
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:17.279
Yeah.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:18.160
And Anna?
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.200
Um, yeah, I think Darnell, you're right.
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:24.960
Like bringing extra work if you can, I think, is a really good idea.
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:30.000
But just be prepared, you're not going to show it all exactly what's going to work best into you in this space.
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:30.799
A lot of the time.
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:32.319
Sometimes it you can't do it.
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:37.920
If you can bring one or two extra pieces, I I always think that's a good way forward.
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:38.799
Be prepared.
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:39.839
Be prepared.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:40.960
Have to be prepared.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:41.839
I've always got it.
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:43.039
Preparation.
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.480
Yeah, I think I think we talked about the toolbox we both.
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:46.880
Yes.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:50.000
Yeah, the install toolbox is is key.
00:26:50.160 --> 00:27:00.400
Yeah, you got your tape measures, your rulers, yeah, yeah, museum gel, um, drills, draw bits, touch-up paint, electrical cords, like whatever you might need.
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:01.039
Oh, totally.
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:02.720
Go over overkill it.
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.079
Like it's it's because you'll never have enough enough.
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:11.680
And even if the gallery has most of these things, you've got multiple people wanting to use them at the same time.
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:12.160
Yes.
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:16.079
Um, so you're gonna be the hero in the toolbox, which is good.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:16.480
Yeah.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:20.880
And also when you're setting up, just be prepared that you're probably gonna move your work.
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:26.319
Just, you know, make sure your work's packaged in a way that you can move it without damage.
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:34.400
You know, you got people with ladders and spirit levels and things can get broken, especially if you know it's your first time doing it.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:35.039
Just you know.
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:39.920
And with me, the um with installation work, I I come with a map.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:46.319
So I know exactly and usually I know the room size and I know how I'm going to how where I want it placed and things.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:55.440
So I come with a map of so for me, the positioning on the ceiling, where I want each piece, and then also um how far off the floor.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:01.039
So I always measure my work when I've done it, hung it um up on or in the studio.
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.799
I measure it from the floor because you don't know how tall it a ceiling is.
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:12.960
So it's much better to know that you want that piece this far off from the floor and the next piece to be on the angle, this angle, and then that to be that far off.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:19.839
I I agree with you, but that brings the point that you've you're actually so prepared that you viewed the venue.
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:22.240
You're having just turned it out to the end of the venue.
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:23.920
Oh yeah, no, you have to do you have to.
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:29.680
I think when you're there, you talk to the gallery owner on quick that they have, all that kind of stuff.
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:43.759
Uh and I think uh yes, definitely speak with the gallery before you don't go in, talk with them, need to um find out if you're gonna have somebody helping you install or whether you need to bring an army in with you.
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:46.720
Um, you know, uh have they got a ladder?
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:47.920
Do you need to bring your ladder?
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:49.440
I just always bring my toolbox.
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:51.599
If you bring your toolbox, just bring your toolbox.
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:57.759
Because you do not want you do not want to have to go out and do a bunnings trip or you know, a hardware trip or whatever.
00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:58.160
Yeah.
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:14.880
I know, I know somebody just recently um who actually was about to put on an exhibition and there was some circumstances and the Galleriona just gave her the keys and said, It's about to you and Yeah, that the Galleriona couldn't be there.
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:20.000
And um she certainly had to find an army to help her to put it together.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:26.319
And I know you mentioned something about you had to go in and set all the stuff up at the top once, was that?
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:26.960
Yeah.
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:32.960
No, I thought that I might have to, and um, so I did a a quick trip to the gallery.
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:38.799
I made an appointment with the curator, and I said, okay, it's all going to be suspended.
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:50.799
This is, you know, I'm gonna use this X amount of space on the ceiling, and I took in what I thought we could I could hang the work from, and they just said, not your work, we want it straight from the ceiling.
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:59.839
So that's when I had a floor map that was down on the floor, and also all the measurements from the ceiling, how far each dot was going to be.
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:13.440
But again, you have to be prepared that things are not always going to work out because certain spots couldn't be taken because there was going to be an electrical cord, you know, they they couldn't just put a drill up and put a hook up in the ceiling.
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:21.519
So you have to be flexible enough to know that it's not always those will be perfect and you're gonna have to bend yourself slightly.
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:22.559
So it's give and take.
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:23.359
Yes, of course.
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:24.960
Make sure they've got power points.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:31.440
You can bring restriction cords and tape to cover and you've got to do all the definitely.
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:33.440
And make sure there's no trip hazards.
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:34.880
You've painted walls as well.
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:35.759
I've painted walls.
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.160
Yeah, I think this is a great yes.
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.160
Yeah, that was a really that was a good um a good good one actually.
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:47.680
There's uh my porcelain work which is from uni actually, and I originally put it on a on a paint.
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:50.799
You know, I'd reflected on it and decided it wasn't quite right.
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:55.920
So I just I just went in and painted the wall a different colour, really soft, beautiful blue.
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.960
It just works so nicely with the porcelain.
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:01.680
And it also sort of defined the space of the work.
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:07.119
So it almost so nudged it out a bit and yeah, it gave it the breathing room.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.480
Um yeah, so that was that was good.
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:21.680
And and um most most galleries will allow you to do this just to return it to the original colour, and they'll usually have a big bucket of paint for you to do that with to bring you.
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.200
It's easier than you think to change certain things to hum.
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.880
And um I've seen that you've had actually uh took out hanging things.
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:33.039
I had to hang a big porcelain work and there was nowhere to hang it.
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.680
So I actually I won't well I didn't I didn't want to hang it on the wall, I wanted it suspended.
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:41.119
So I had to bring in my own bean.
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.960
I've brought in my own little piece of wood fantastic to hang off.
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:46.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:49.200
It was a lot of effort, but it worked well.
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:50.799
I want to look gorgeous.
00:31:51.039 --> 00:32:01.440
I have seen installations that had that's why I bought all this mesh in to say, well, okay, I can hang up from this, you know, this is the size, in some exhibitions, especially um group exhibitions.
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:06.480
Again, uh there's one specifically that I'm thinking of, and it was hanging from from mesh.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:11.759
And I guess that was because it had to be presented to the gallery already hung.
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:18.319
But it does take away from not a beautiful beam, but some mesh um can can affect too much.
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:23.519
Well that's okay.
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:25.279
Yeah, true, true.
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:26.480
Okay, fair enough.
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:29.680
Well my goodness, what a big lessons.
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:31.680
Um huge lessons.
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:31.920
Yeah.
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.960
What's your favourite lesson in the show?
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:38.160
I'm gonna have to read because I can't remember.
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:39.759
Not tell your mind then.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.240
Okay.
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:44.000
What keeps coming up for me is less is better.
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.640
Be more, but less is better.
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:56.480
And that whole thing of less visual noise, and so you're sort of trying to tell a story with an exhibition, I guess, and you have less visual noise.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:04.559
Donna's talks about space for people to actually absorb and and sit as well.
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:05.920
So what about you?
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:07.839
Okay, scout, be prepared.
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.480
That is the biggest thing.
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.240
Boy Scout, be prepared, considering the viewer's journey.
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:18.880
I think they're the two big things that I think that you do need to think about.
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.920
I agree with yours, by the way, and I would have chosen that secure.
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:23.359
I would be the first.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:26.559
Roseme, I know we still had guests here.
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:31.119
We usually do this after guests are gone, but Roseme, what's been inspiring you lately?
00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:32.400
I've got no idea.
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:33.440
No idea.
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:48.880
Well, I'm off to the post office to pick up my piece of Gretrafts and I'll be my latest book, I'll be bringing them to your market next Sunday, so that'll be great to be roaming around.
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.039
We'll be roaming around like the quarters.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:52.480
We aren't going to be roaming around.
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.039
We're going to do a market special and we're roaming around.
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:56.319
That's such a good idea.
00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:58.000
What's inspiring you?
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.759
I think that um I'm still working on my new sculptural pieces.
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:08.239
And I'm inspired by the feedback I've got off Dana and Anna, which which has made me think a bit more.
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:15.119
And even the statement today, less is more, and I'm looking at them going, Yes, how can I make that less but more?
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:27.599
So yeah, and also I think actually I'm inspired by the fact that we've done this in the gallery in in studio space, and it's such a beautiful space to do it, and then I feel so comfortable.
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:29.519
I'd like to do more like this rosemary.
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:30.000
Right.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:30.719
A lot more.
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:33.360
So everybody, thank you, Donna.
00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:33.920
Thank you.
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:38.400
And Port Melbourne for now.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:40.800
Port Melbourne or South Melbourne, we'll figure it out.
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:41.840
South Melbourne.
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:44.639
Okay, and thank you, listeners.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:45.920
Okay, bye for now.
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:49.440
Thank you so much for listening to Shift Stirrers Podcast.
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:56.639
If you enjoyed this episode, please hit that follow button so you can get notified whenever we we release new content.
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:04.159
We'd love to hear feel from you and feel free to reach out to us at theshift stirrers at gmail.com.
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:09.360
Or you can find our individual email addresses and websites in the show notes below.
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:10.800
We love questions.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:16.000
You can also connect to us on Instagram at ShiftStirrers.
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:27.280
If you found value in today's conversation, we'd be incredible, incredibly grateful if you could leave us a review or a rating on your podcast platform.
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.760
It really helps others to discover the show.
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:34.639
And if you know someone who will benefit from this episode, please share with them.
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.000
Until next time, keep stirring the shift.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:43.840
Just a quick disclaimer Michelle and Rosemary are not experts in any of these discussions today.
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:49.360
We present this podcast in the interest of getting you curious to make changes.
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:50.000
Thank you.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.760
Welcome to the Shift Dirts.
00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:07.360
Before we dive in, we acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands where we record.
00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:13.199
Michelle and Rosemary work on the lands of the Bun Morang and Warangeri people of the Kulin Nation.
00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:17.120
We pay our respects to elders past, present, and emerging.
00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:29.760
As we talk about transitions and shifts in our own lives, we recognise that First Nations people have been adapting, surviving and thriving on this continent for over 65,000 years.
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The world's longest continuing culture.
00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:36.799
Sovereignty was never seeded, always was, always will be.
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So, Rosemary, how are we stirring the shift today?
00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:41.359
I'm not sure.
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I think you're going to tell me.
00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:44.880
You don't know how we're stirring the shift?
00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:49.759
Well, Rosemary, we are doing a podcast where we are all in the same room.
00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:53.679
And we've got the lovely Donna and Anna with us.
00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:57.280
And yeah, that's stirring the shift as far as I'm concerned, Rosemary.
00:00:57.600 --> 00:00:58.560
It certainly is.
00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:00.799
Do you know why we stir the ship first more?
00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:01.679
No, I don't.
00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:02.479
You don't.
00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:15.920
We do it so that people who are interested in changing their lifestyle from a corporate career to a more artisian lifestyle can actually listen to what other people are doing and get curious about that change.
00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:17.439
So I'm Michelle Benson.
00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:20.719
And I'm Rosemey Patterson, and we are the shifters.
00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:22.560
Yay! Thank you.
00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:25.359
Okay, welcome Donna and Anna.
00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:26.079
Now we do.
00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:28.319
Hi guys, thank you for having us.
00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:30.959
Would you like to tell me a bit about yourself, Dana?
00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:36.319
Okay, I see myself as a sculptor and installation artist.
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I use um natural materials like bone, fish skin, pig gut that I clean and tan and um bring into my art.
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:49.040
Oh beautiful, beautiful.
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I've worked with both Dana and Anna and their work is fantastic.
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Anna, would you like to describe your work as well?
00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:56.640
Sure.
00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:02.799
So yeah, I'm a ceramic artist from Sydney originally, but I now live in like in Melbourne.
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I usually work with Vecil.
00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:08.159
Or most of my work will use slip in some way.
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Very interested in looking at gesture and movement within different forms of slip, be it liquid or viscous.
00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:17.919
That's okay, that's fascinating.
00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:21.280
We're really happy to have you here.
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This is going to be a giggly one, I can say.
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Um I can't.
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:32.479
Now, what we're going to talk to you about today is about how to set up a gallery exhibition.
00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:39.199
So a lot of people, um, a lot of our listeners are in their emerging stages of being an artist.
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They're probably on their first, their second exhibition.
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Roseme and I were fortunate enough to do an exhibition with yourselves and the lovely Amy Cohen, who is not with us today.
00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:54.960
But we got so much from, I learned so much from you ladies.
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So I just thought this would be something that our listeners would be interested in too.
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Um, Roseme, would you like to ask the first question?
00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:08.960
Yes, and Michelle, we did it in this room, your studio, so that was a lot of fun as well.
00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:10.080
It was fun.
00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:12.479
And I am asking Anna.
00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:18.560
You come from the graphic design and digital media, incredibly controlled films.
00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:24.240
Your ceramic work is more spent on tones, if I'm right, with gesture and action.
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How has that design background influenced how you think about installing and displaying your work?
00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:32.719
Yeah, it's it's a huge influence.
00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:38.800
Um it's you know, I didn't know designer, so it's about a an easy one to shake off.
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Um and all those design skills that I've learnt and um you know can carry through strongly into exhibition setup or design.
00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:53.680
And I think a lot of artists actually intuitively have a lot of those skills and ability to see.
00:03:53.840 --> 00:04:03.840
I think how things are aligned and contrast and repetition, all those kind of design principles that you know artists probably engage with without realizing it, maybe.
00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:09.840
So yeah, it's it's been um a huge influence, and I've had a long career in graphic design.
00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:15.759
You know, I'm always happy to use my graphic design to do any promotional materials for exhibition.
00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:18.879
What a grave extra to your house.
00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:21.680
It's it is lovely.
00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:37.839
Um I think I was thinking that when you said about the um intuitiveness of putting uh installing your work, and and I think that's that is something that you learn as an artist to trust that instinct.
00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:43.040
And I think we all do that with you know in your books and in your your ceramic works.
00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:51.839
And I and I think that's one of the most difficult things to learn or or to let go or to yeah, to let go of no, it's to trust, isn't it?
00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:53.680
To trust is that instinct.
00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:55.199
And that's yeah.
00:04:56.240 --> 00:05:02.319
Maybe time or you know, some people just seem to have it, but it's taken me a little time to trust.
00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:14.000
And I well I think that's how it worked really well with all of us here, because when something was off, there was so many other people that could say, Oh yeah, okay, I see that, and what about if you try that?
00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:20.079
And and they offered different ways of of just moving, even it was just slightly to the left or to the right.
00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:22.480
It you know really helped bring it all together.
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Yeah, and that was a collective absolute yeah, yeah.
00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:26.560
That's great.
00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:27.759
That's wonderful.
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Your materials, bone, gut, copper, skin, hair, they're not conventional gallery materials, and I remember them hanging up here.
00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:41.360
You knew what you wanted, which installing work that's both fragile and has such a presence.
00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:44.879
What have you learned about displaying those pieces over the years?
00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:47.759
I think it's it is that trust that we were talking about.
00:05:47.920 --> 00:06:00.000
So um I think originally I thought everything that I made was really fragile and I was really worried that um that they would move too much or they might you know, might fall apart.
00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:00.639
I I don't know.
00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:09.120
I think that um having it here, what what was wonderful was that everything that I was nervous about actually became a bonus.
00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:10.319
It was such a plus.
00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:18.720
I learned so much about how because previously when I had had an exhibition, everything was in a tight environment.
00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:24.160
So it had a plinth on the floor, it didn't allow people to walk through the work.
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And so I entered this exhibition with this huge fear of, oh my gosh, there's you know, people are going to be banging it and and walking through it and touching and in actual fact, because that happened, I grew so much in that one, I trusted my work, and two, there was such awe and wonder both ways.
00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:51.040
So from people who were walking through it, but also for me to watch their faces and how they were experiencing the work.
00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:55.759
So I guess this uh doesn't answer the question, but then I've just I've gone off somewhere.
00:06:55.839 --> 00:07:00.079
But that was, yeah, it was really exciting, and it was such a huge lesson for me.
00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:07.600
I've really walked away going, Wow, okay, it's opens up doors of of other ways that I can do my exhibition.
00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:20.240
Huge benefits of um, you know, if you haven't exhibited much before, is just getting out there and doing it because you're gonna see your work in a different way, and it's really exciting to have it, you know.
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It's just a small exhibition.
00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:28.720
We set it up opening night, you've got people coming in, gauging, and you Yeah, it's you don't see yeah, it's very informative.
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Everything is informative, that's exactly right.
00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:36.000
I'm I'm gonna add to it to that and say that I've been to a couple of exhibitions lately.
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Names I can't remember.
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I always think of her as the dot lady and yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, that's what and uh she her work is so immersive.
00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:58.800
And I think that my perception of when I exhibit and how I exhibit has changed because of experiencing her work.
00:07:59.120 --> 00:07:59.839
That's fantastic.
00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:06.240
Yeah, I think that that's something if you haven't done an exhibition before and you're thinking about doing one, go to big exhibitions.
00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:11.439
Yeah, because uh even we went to the Vivian Westwood one, which we were actually doing a podcast on.
00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:19.759
We learned so much going to that, and the way they present them these days and the immersiveness of them is just incredible.
00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:21.600
Yeah, that's that's a good learning.
00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:26.480
Oh, yeah, it's you go in with that in mind, you know, the curse of the designers.
00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:29.279
You're always kind of looking at, oh, how is that thing done?
00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:40.320
Do but yeah, you do, and um it's nice just to put that lens on for a minute when you're in a new exhibition and just just look around and see how things are done.
00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:41.600
Big and small.
00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:52.320
Lighting, I think we didn't have much lighting in here that we played with, but lighting is so important, and and and in my next exhibition, lighting is gonna play a huge part, actually.
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A huge part.
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That's great.
00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:59.360
I remember Anna, you working with your pints for a long time and changing them.
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This question is about what makes a display resonate.
00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:06.879
So your work seeks resonance with the natural world.
00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:12.320
Like when you walk into a gallery and see your work installed, what's going on there?
00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:18.799
So you've hit the nail on the head, I think, with lighting is really key, especially the porcelain work.
00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:26.240
And just like considered lighting, I think, is is also I mean I like exhibitions that have created a mood and a story.
00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:28.399
I find it's they really resonate.
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You know, you're kind of guided through the space and nothing's jarring.
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.519
Go to the next, be it visually or thematically.
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And yeah, you it it's a space that guides you through.
00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:46.720
You know, you know, you get to some shows that are too crowded or too many works and you don't want to go in there.
00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:48.480
I think you get lost in it, don't you?
00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:51.200
Yeah.
00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:55.600
Well, because you want the pieces for people to spend time with each piece.
00:09:55.919 --> 00:10:02.399
And it's it's like going into an op shop and it's really crowded, and I just have to walk out because I can't I can't think enough.
00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:04.000
So really I think it is.
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:09.120
It is it's pulling back and and allowing each piece room to breathe.
00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:09.759
I love that.
00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:10.559
And you know what?
00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:14.080
I I think about that statement all the time now.
00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:16.159
Have to let the work breathe.
00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:18.960
It's gotta stop being so cluttered.
00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:25.200
And in fact, some stuff that I'm working on at the moment, I'm now I'm thinking about this hand myself, is it breathing enough?
00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:29.840
So yeah, it is something that is always, always in the back of my mind.
00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:36.559
And I think Donna helped you with your letting it breathe, whether how many things to display.
00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:37.200
That's correct.
00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:39.039
Can you talk about that?
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:46.879
Well, I actually had when we had our exhibition here, I had I think 24 paintings ready to hang.
00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:48.799
But I ended up only hanging five.
00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:54.639
Um, and I'd also got some porcelain masks, which I I still have up there.
00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:57.120
And um I hung them.
00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:06.320
And I think that it was the fact that there was less there made what was there look more uh not important, but it all could speak.
00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:06.799
Yes.
00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:10.320
That so it could breathe and speak, which I think is very important.
00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:20.399
That they played off each other, so it it may it gave that whole space an air of where we could go in and experience it.
00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.720
Whereas if it had been cluttered, it would have been just where are we going here?
00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:26.159
What am I supposed to look at?
00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:28.639
You know, what what am I supposed to understand from this?
00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:30.799
And I think that's where it is, isn't it?
00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:32.639
It's just trying to focal point.
00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:38.159
Yeah, to understand what you're trying to say, or I don't know, I don't think it's about trying to understand it.
00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.000
It's about trying to have presence, isn't it?
00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:45.360
Yes, room to see and so Donna, your question was similar.
00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:55.600
That's they've sort of almost done it anymore from you on that about making work truly sing, and especially with your other world worldly stillness.
00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:03.200
Well, I think um I kind of like the the word sing, but uh for me I really aim for stillness and presence.
00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:11.200
And I like the idea that one, the work asks people to stop and feel and breathe.
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:13.440
You know, just that to remember to breathe.
00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:24.080
Because I think we live in such a fast-paced world that we're it's full of media and social media and you know, it's all bang, bang, bang, fast, it's all got to be over in a second.
00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:32.960
And I think we just all need to just stop and breathe and to feel and listen again to what we have already.
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:39.120
Um yeah, I think that's it's just oh you know what's a lot because you've got such beautiful details.
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:44.159
So you get the right lighting and you draw and you're fascinated by it because you're wondering what it's made out of.
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:53.759
Um, but also when we had the exhibition here and they were just shifting ever so lightly and they're dangling down, just very soft movement.
00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:54.799
It was just stunning.
00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:55.440
Thank you.
00:12:55.600 --> 00:13:03.840
I'll get you to send me photos of the work from that exhibition so that I can actually add them to the podcast and people can see what we're talking about.
00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:08.639
Because you know, Donna, I can still visualize your work in here.
00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:16.240
I can I I I have beautiful plants hanging out there, but I I can still if I close my eyes, I can still see your work.
00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:19.759
And that to me means that it really made a statement in me.
00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:25.039
So it's from all your wisdom now we're on to um mistakes for our listeners.
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:33.519
Um I know, but but with your designer, you'd probably have a trained eye for what else sort of some mistakes you might want to tell our listeners okay.
00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:43.840
You know, the types of exhibitions I've been involved in, some have been, you know, more at the ward shows where you send your work in and you really don't get a say.
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:45.919
So let's make that click.
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:52.000
Yeah, you can write down, and I've done this with special needs that it has, and it gets ignored.
00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:54.240
So just be prepared for that.
00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:59.600
If you're sending your work off to a you know, a show that's curated elsewhere.
00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:09.440
Um yeah, and and actually, like because I've had a lot of things go a bit wrong with that, and I I don't think I would enter work that has conditional.
00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:21.440
Having said that, and I agree, because I've also had that where you feel like your work was overshadowed by something my mind's very earthy, so you can yeah, if it's full of something that's really bright, they kind of don't work together at all.
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:30.159
But having said that, with the last exhibition, group exhibition I was in, they were so careful with the way they displayed it.
00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.679
I was really overwhelmed by that.
00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.519
I was something like no, but it is something, yeah.
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:41.919
So that there is good out there, but just I guess what I was saying is once you've released it, you don't have control.
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:42.879
You don't have control.
00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.559
And unless it's a painting that becomes quite challengeable.
00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:53.440
I I can I can tell you a story and um uh um of someone very close to me that I know very well.
00:14:53.759 --> 00:15:03.120
Uh a prince in Paris when she was in Paris, and um took it in to get it framed and said to the frame, well, you framed it wrong.
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:07.759
And the frame said, No, this piece is supposed to be standing up.
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:09.279
I said, No, no, no.
00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:15.360
She's a newt by Monet, and she's supposed to be lying down, and um, yeah, it was supposed to be standing up.
00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:18.159
And Monet.
00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:24.000
When it comes to comes to that, really, whoever takes it away can do whatever they like with it.
00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:25.600
Well, that's that's yeah, yeah.
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:36.480
And this is an aside from what you're saying, but uh I believe that once you've created something and it goes to someone else, it's it's it's it's its own person, its own story.
00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:38.799
It creates its own thing.
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:40.799
So you're no longer in control of that.
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:42.159
Yeah, yeah, you're rough.
00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:43.840
Release the control.
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:53.759
But then I guess my other advice is the flip side of that, which is more the artist run initiatives and that kind of you're doing everything yourself.
00:15:53.919 --> 00:16:11.200
So that's um I think I've been in situations where artists hadn't really thought of you know, so just taking the time to prepare before you come in, like get everything, lots of preparation, make sure if you need to get shells and things sorted that you do that.
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.720
Don't necessarily rely on the space to provide that for you.
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.120
Often they will, but um they might not be in the best shape.
00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:24.320
You know, I you know, just painting a plinth as well can really enhance your work.
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.799
I think it's a certain type of white, which works well with my porcelain, for example.
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:40.879
That's a good thing to consider, and I think um, yeah, when you're setting up a show and you know, everybody's there and everyone wants to be respectful of everybody in space.
00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:47.200
Sometimes a leader will kind of come out, and other times, you know, it's like, no, what do you want?
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:48.159
Yeah, what do you want?
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:50.960
Like everyone's usually love too lovely, anyway.
00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:55.279
Um so it can be a long day of just negotiating.
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.120
It is important, I think, at some point.
00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:58.480
No, no, no, I agree.
00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:06.880
I I have to admit that this was the first group show that I'd ever set up that put works into group exhibitions and you've got no say in it.
00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:14.079
And the other exhibitions, the solo ones I've had, I've been in control of where it's going, but I've had somebody to help me install it.
00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.240
So it's um yeah.
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:20.799
But so this was the first one, and and I think you were the you were a great leader, Anna.
00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.640
I think I think there was a lot of clarity between everyone.
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:25.839
I think it worked out really well.
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:28.079
I think we all Tom, of course, Tom Ells.
00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.559
Who actually came and um did a lot of the installation, which took pressure off us?
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.480
Oh, it was fantastic, yeah, yeah.
00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:44.319
And he had such great experience and and he had his own aesthetics and he his aesthetics sort of reached us reached in with all of us, didn't it?
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:47.359
But like we all agree that that it was all it was all good with.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:50.960
I think it made made it um cohesive.
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.440
Yeah, right.
00:17:53.839 --> 00:18:01.759
I was thinking that when you're actually in a group exhibition and everybody's got different things, getting that cohesive feel.
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.440
And a lot of people did say to me, oh wow, it's cohesive.
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:09.119
So getting that cohesive feel I think is very, very important.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:16.559
And that was the the flow that Adam was talking about was you know entering in and then having a direction, how to flow around the room.
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:21.759
And if you watch, most people had that direction, almost like a figure eight.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:25.119
Yeah, and we turned we didn't know what children was installing, didn't we?
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:25.599
No.
00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:34.559
It was quite a feat actually to sit to look at all our works and work out which ones resonated with each other and where they needed to sit in relation to each other.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.119
And I think that short period of time we did.
00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:38.480
And we did very well.
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:48.240
But I think what was one of the best things that happened with that is that you had invited us here prior to the setup day to get to know the space and understand it.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:53.039
I guess that in that way we kind of had where things may or may not go.
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:54.480
Is it lunchtime, Michelle?
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:58.160
Too it's uh for me though, uh it's left me with a beautiful feeling.
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:06.559
I think it blessed this studio in a way because um I I'm I d uh to to actually have an exhibition in here again would be a feat.
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:10.240
I'd have to hire a taxi truck on a taxi truck.
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.960
And I don't think I could I I don't think I could do it.
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:14.799
So it's got lovely memory.
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:20.000
It was such a good idea, and it was um yeah, it was really beautiful.
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:24.079
Um not just on your eye, but you seem to work on each other's.
00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:38.400
I think um well, I think that was um not so much the installation part, but our work, the work that I bought in because I knew um what Amy's her uh textile work was, I bought work in that really complemented that.
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:42.720
I mean I bought a heap of other things which we didn't put out because they weren't necessary.
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:47.119
Um so I chose the ones that complemented each other and it was it was exciting.
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:48.720
We had that moment of a buzz.
00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:50.640
So oh, these were great together.
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.160
And it was really funny because we were all happy just sitting hanging around.
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:54.640
Yes.
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.039
The whole again, we were just all happy just hanging around.
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:58.880
Yeah, in the space, it was nice.
00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:00.160
So we've got feeling nice.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:05.119
So um let's move to the next question, and I'll just ask it and see who wants to answer it.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:05.359
Yeah.
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.960
That's how we're going, isn't it?
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:15.200
So um when we talk about how installation transforms experience, we've talked about the flow of demand setup.
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:23.599
Um, how can you give an example of um how the installation might have changed the way people engaged in the experience?
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:38.720
I can I can give an example of that um some of the work I did at uni, which has a lot of pieces, and I install that in a room at uni, and it's kind of my first experience of like understanding what it means to activate a space.
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:44.480
Like I had the work hanging, I I couldn't control the lighting so much, so it was natural lighting mostly.
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.279
But a lot of space between these objects.
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:56.319
Watching, I like with your work done, and watching people just walk amongst it and that very quiet, sort of contemplative state they got in.
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:58.720
I was quite like amazed by it actually.
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:00.319
And um it was lovely.
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:12.480
And then I did the same, I displayed the same piece of work in a gallery setting, which was a bit more controlled, the pieces were closer together, and the light was such a different feel, I can't tell you.
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:25.279
Like it sort of put people outside of work, just not even because of the way like you could still sort of walk near it, but the lighting of it as well gave it but you stepped back from it rather than moving in.
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:27.759
Yeah.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:34.000
But the benefit of that particular show was it had all these beautiful shadows came off the work.
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.119
So I think they were both successful.
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.039
Um exhibitions, I just think displays, I should say.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:46.640
But um it was just really, really informative for me to see the work in those two environments.
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:47.519
I learned a lot.
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:52.640
Yeah, I think um that's interesting because I had a my last solo the exhibition.
00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:01.279
I I um I really wanted my work to be in like more still and and have that uh find a Balance within it all.
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:05.839
And the gallery put this bright light on it.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:13.279
Which was lovely because it had copper bits and it and it kind of picked up my nose and all and there was a lot of shimmering things happening.
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:15.680
But there was a lot of shadow.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:24.240
And um like the shadows from my work, I think they're gorgeous, but I was a little bit overwhelmed by the shadows because I thought it took over.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:25.440
Shriveling it.
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:25.839
Yes.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:28.480
So but that was on opening night.
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:32.160
During the day, when the light was coming through the windows of the gallery, it changed.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:39.920
Then it softened the shadows a little bit, which I was so glad to see because I really I didn't want the work to be about the shadows.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:41.279
I wanted the work to be about the work.
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:42.079
Is that what I said?
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:44.880
So anyway, it lighting can be a challenge.
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:46.319
That is a funny way, isn't it?
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.400
It was always opening night, and the words can look really different from the rest of the show.
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:54.000
Can I throw in a curveball question?
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:55.359
That's that's not the question.
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:02.720
I've used um Erin as our sound designer recently, and she's creating the background music in this podcast.
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:06.640
Uh and uh I've learned a lot about sound from Erin.
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:13.680
And I was wondering, have you used sound in your excessions in certain ways to actually transform an exhibition as well?
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.640
That's really great.
00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:15.680
That's a great question.
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:21.440
I have in the past used sound for outdoor exhibitions.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:28.640
And it is it was meant to create uh, you know, another world being used to bring people into an attorney table.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:39.599
Um, one one exhibition that's they were done, it's like a done on the um train station, uh one of the um rooms in the old uh train stations.
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:44.960
So passers by and people commuting can can see your art.
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:52.559
And this particular piece had a heartbeat that went for it, but they asked us to turn it off because it was scary.
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:55.519
It was a book book.
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.400
So you know, maybe sometimes you have to think about it.
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:16.559
I've been thinking about the uh, you know, bringing music for ages in with my art, but then I wonder if it will, especially with my installations, whether it will steer it too much for people not to let allow the viewers to have their own mind, you know, make up their own mind about their and finding like their selves in it.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:20.160
You know, it would be made yeah, it's it's something that could be quite fun.
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:22.480
It c it it could it could be a lot of fun.
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:29.440
Um and it's something that I'm thinking about for my next ex for my exhibition when I'm when when it gets it gets finished.
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:35.359
Yeah, it's definitely something that I think it's uh yeah, things that it's really worth looking into.
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:44.160
Well we we looked at it with the podcasts and I think it's we um it makes a big difference because you can use it to change the tempo of a conversation.
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.559
Uh you can use it to make something some more serious or more sad.
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:50.720
And I I learned all that thank you, Erin.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:51.759
I learned all of that.
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:54.960
We should keep moving because I have got no idea how long we've been going.
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:56.960
I've got no idea either.
00:24:57.440 --> 00:24:58.079
That's okay.
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:00.319
Um, great.
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:13.279
So practical wisdom for first-time installers for someone who is going to be installing their first solo show and they're working with unconventional materials, maybe not burning gut at something challenging.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:14.559
So for you, Donna?
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:17.759
I'd say yeah, I think I think that's a great question.
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:26.720
I definitely think that you have to know your materials, and I don't I don't think it matters what you're using, you just have to know your materials, how they move.
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.640
You need to, I'll guess again, overcrowding.
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:31.519
Don't overcrowd.
00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:33.279
Give everything space.
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:39.599
And and that's something like you said, Michelle, you made all these beautiful paintings, but you didn't use them all in your exhibition.
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.240
I make a lot of work, but they don't all go in.
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:42.640
Yes.
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:50.400
And I think that there are certainly I've been to a couple of exhibitions where I just wish they'd pulled back a little bit.
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:52.880
You know, there there were too many ideas happening.
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.920
Um, and and I'm not saying that I'm perfect because I love it.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:01.519
But yes, when you just think, okay, but you've got this idea and you've got this idea, you've got this idea and you've got this idea.
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:03.839
What happened if you pulled at least two of them out?
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:04.079
Yeah.
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:06.480
And then just kept the two flowing.
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:16.160
And I think your idea of a a retail store is a good idea for an emerging artist to think about you're walking and wear so much stuff, you just walk straight out.
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:16.880
Yeah.
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:17.279
Yeah.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:18.160
And Anna?
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.200
Um, yeah, I think Darnell, you're right.
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:24.960
Like bringing extra work if you can, I think, is a really good idea.
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:30.000
But just be prepared, you're not going to show it all exactly what's going to work best into you in this space.
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:30.799
A lot of the time.
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:32.319
Sometimes it you can't do it.
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:37.920
If you can bring one or two extra pieces, I I always think that's a good way forward.
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:38.799
Be prepared.
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:39.839
Be prepared.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:40.960
Have to be prepared.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:41.839
I've always got it.
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:43.039
Preparation.
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.480
Yeah, I think I think we talked about the toolbox we both.
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:46.880
Yes.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:50.000
Yeah, the install toolbox is is key.
00:26:50.160 --> 00:27:00.400
Yeah, you got your tape measures, your rulers, yeah, yeah, museum gel, um, drills, draw bits, touch-up paint, electrical cords, like whatever you might need.
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:01.039
Oh, totally.
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:02.720
Go over overkill it.
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.079
Like it's it's because you'll never have enough enough.
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:11.680
And even if the gallery has most of these things, you've got multiple people wanting to use them at the same time.
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:12.160
Yes.
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:16.079
Um, so you're gonna be the hero in the toolbox, which is good.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:16.480
Yeah.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:20.880
And also when you're setting up, just be prepared that you're probably gonna move your work.
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:26.319
Just, you know, make sure your work's packaged in a way that you can move it without damage.
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:34.400
You know, you got people with ladders and spirit levels and things can get broken, especially if you know it's your first time doing it.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:35.039
Just you know.
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:39.920
And with me, the um with installation work, I I come with a map.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:46.319
So I know exactly and usually I know the room size and I know how I'm going to how where I want it placed and things.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:55.440
So I come with a map of so for me, the positioning on the ceiling, where I want each piece, and then also um how far off the floor.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:01.039
So I always measure my work when I've done it, hung it um up on or in the studio.
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.799
I measure it from the floor because you don't know how tall it a ceiling is.
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:12.960
So it's much better to know that you want that piece this far off from the floor and the next piece to be on the angle, this angle, and then that to be that far off.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:19.839
I I agree with you, but that brings the point that you've you're actually so prepared that you viewed the venue.
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:22.240
You're having just turned it out to the end of the venue.
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:23.920
Oh yeah, no, you have to do you have to.
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:29.680
I think when you're there, you talk to the gallery owner on quick that they have, all that kind of stuff.
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:43.759
Uh and I think uh yes, definitely speak with the gallery before you don't go in, talk with them, need to um find out if you're gonna have somebody helping you install or whether you need to bring an army in with you.
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:46.720
Um, you know, uh have they got a ladder?
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:47.920
Do you need to bring your ladder?
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:49.440
I just always bring my toolbox.
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:51.599
If you bring your toolbox, just bring your toolbox.
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:57.759
Because you do not want you do not want to have to go out and do a bunnings trip or you know, a hardware trip or whatever.
00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:58.160
Yeah.
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:14.880
I know, I know somebody just recently um who actually was about to put on an exhibition and there was some circumstances and the Galleriona just gave her the keys and said, It's about to you and Yeah, that the Galleriona couldn't be there.
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:20.000
And um she certainly had to find an army to help her to put it together.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:26.319
And I know you mentioned something about you had to go in and set all the stuff up at the top once, was that?
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:26.960
Yeah.
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:32.960
No, I thought that I might have to, and um, so I did a a quick trip to the gallery.
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:38.799
I made an appointment with the curator, and I said, okay, it's all going to be suspended.
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:50.799
This is, you know, I'm gonna use this X amount of space on the ceiling, and I took in what I thought we could I could hang the work from, and they just said, not your work, we want it straight from the ceiling.
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:59.839
So that's when I had a floor map that was down on the floor, and also all the measurements from the ceiling, how far each dot was going to be.
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:13.440
But again, you have to be prepared that things are not always going to work out because certain spots couldn't be taken because there was going to be an electrical cord, you know, they they couldn't just put a drill up and put a hook up in the ceiling.
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:21.519
So you have to be flexible enough to know that it's not always those will be perfect and you're gonna have to bend yourself slightly.
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:22.559
So it's give and take.
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:23.359
Yes, of course.
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:24.960
Make sure they've got power points.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:31.440
You can bring restriction cords and tape to cover and you've got to do all the definitely.
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:33.440
And make sure there's no trip hazards.
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:34.880
You've painted walls as well.
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:35.759
I've painted walls.
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.160
Yeah, I think this is a great yes.
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.160
Yeah, that was a really that was a good um a good good one actually.
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:47.680
There's uh my porcelain work which is from uni actually, and I originally put it on a on a paint.
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:50.799
You know, I'd reflected on it and decided it wasn't quite right.
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:55.920
So I just I just went in and painted the wall a different colour, really soft, beautiful blue.
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.960
It just works so nicely with the porcelain.
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:01.680
And it also sort of defined the space of the work.
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:07.119
So it almost so nudged it out a bit and yeah, it gave it the breathing room.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.480
Um yeah, so that was that was good.
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:21.680
And and um most most galleries will allow you to do this just to return it to the original colour, and they'll usually have a big bucket of paint for you to do that with to bring you.
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.200
It's easier than you think to change certain things to hum.
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.880
And um I've seen that you've had actually uh took out hanging things.
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:33.039
I had to hang a big porcelain work and there was nowhere to hang it.
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.680
So I actually I won't well I didn't I didn't want to hang it on the wall, I wanted it suspended.
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:41.119
So I had to bring in my own bean.
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.960
I've brought in my own little piece of wood fantastic to hang off.
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:46.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:49.200
It was a lot of effort, but it worked well.
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:50.799
I want to look gorgeous.
00:31:51.039 --> 00:32:01.440
I have seen installations that had that's why I bought all this mesh in to say, well, okay, I can hang up from this, you know, this is the size, in some exhibitions, especially um group exhibitions.
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:06.480
Again, uh there's one specifically that I'm thinking of, and it was hanging from from mesh.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:11.759
And I guess that was because it had to be presented to the gallery already hung.
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:18.319
But it does take away from not a beautiful beam, but some mesh um can can affect too much.
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:23.519
Well that's okay.
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:25.279
Yeah, true, true.
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:26.480
Okay, fair enough.
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:29.680
Well my goodness, what a big lessons.
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:31.680
Um huge lessons.
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:31.920
Yeah.
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.960
What's your favourite lesson in the show?
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:38.160
I'm gonna have to read because I can't remember.
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:39.759
Not tell your mind then.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.240
Okay.
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:44.000
What keeps coming up for me is less is better.
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.640
Be more, but less is better.
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:56.480
And that whole thing of less visual noise, and so you're sort of trying to tell a story with an exhibition, I guess, and you have less visual noise.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:04.559
Donna's talks about space for people to actually absorb and and sit as well.
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:05.920
So what about you?
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:07.839
Okay, scout, be prepared.
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.480
That is the biggest thing.
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.240
Boy Scout, be prepared, considering the viewer's journey.
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:18.880
I think they're the two big things that I think that you do need to think about.
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.920
I agree with yours, by the way, and I would have chosen that secure.
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:23.359
I would be the first.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:26.559
Roseme, I know we still had guests here.
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:31.119
We usually do this after guests are gone, but Roseme, what's been inspiring you lately?
00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:32.400
I've got no idea.
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:33.440
No idea.
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:48.880
Well, I'm off to the post office to pick up my piece of Gretrafts and I'll be my latest book, I'll be bringing them to your market next Sunday, so that'll be great to be roaming around.
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.039
We'll be roaming around like the quarters.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:52.480
We aren't going to be roaming around.
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.039
We're going to do a market special and we're roaming around.
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:56.319
That's such a good idea.
00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:58.000
What's inspiring you?
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.759
I think that um I'm still working on my new sculptural pieces.
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:08.239
And I'm inspired by the feedback I've got off Dana and Anna, which which has made me think a bit more.
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:15.119
And even the statement today, less is more, and I'm looking at them going, Yes, how can I make that less but more?
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:27.599
So yeah, and also I think actually I'm inspired by the fact that we've done this in the gallery in in studio space, and it's such a beautiful space to do it, and then I feel so comfortable.
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:29.519
I'd like to do more like this rosemary.
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:30.000
Right.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:30.719
A lot more.
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:33.360
So everybody, thank you, Donna.
00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:33.920
Thank you.
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:38.400
And Port Melbourne for now.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:40.800
Port Melbourne or South Melbourne, we'll figure it out.
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:41.840
South Melbourne.
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:44.639
Okay, and thank you, listeners.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:45.920
Okay, bye for now.
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:49.440
Thank you so much for listening to Shift Stirrers Podcast.
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:56.639
If you enjoyed this episode, please hit that follow button so you can get notified whenever we we release new content.
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:04.159
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00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:09.360
Or you can find our individual email addresses and websites in the show notes below.
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:10.800
We love questions.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:16.000
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00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:27.280
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00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.760
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00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:34.639
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00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.000
Until next time, keep stirring the shift.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:43.840
Just a quick disclaimer Michelle and Rosemary are not experts in any of these discussions today.
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:49.360
We present this podcast in the interest of getting you curious to make changes.
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:50.000
Thank you.
