speaker-0: This is Shelf Space. 46 years, one family, and a whole lot of tasty almonds. Mitch Oberfield joins me to talk about nature source's small batch premium nut mixes, roasted snacks, and salad toppers, and what it takes to run a food manufacturing business across international markets. We get into pricing strategies, supply chain management, and quality control. We even explore how front-of-pack warning labels are reshaping innovation strategy. The trade challenges of exporting globally, and the thinking behind their recent packaging glow-up. And a quick galactic shout-out to the partners who make shelf space possible, TD Business Banking, which is actually this episode's lead sponsor, and the rest of my cosmic corporate crew, Pacific Coast Distribution, Faskin, Benchmark 60, REMA, and Pecnic Creative. Okay, here's my conversation with Mitch. This is gonna be a fun conversation, Mitch, because one of the reasons why I like what you guys do is that you make, to be honest, kind of boring things a lot more fun. You guys really are creative in the space. I love the category that you play in. So I think we're gonna have lot of fun. Before we dive into it, I need to ask you the question that I ask everyone. And that is if you were to imagine one innovation in the grocery store, what would it be?
speaker-1: First all, thank you for the kind words. And ⁓ my answer, it'll always depend on what I'm dealing with at the time. Right now I'm dealing with a lot of stuff regarding pricing. And so like if you ask me for an innovation, I wish that there was more innovation around pricing because it seems like there's and I guess from the manufacturer's side, right? From the manufacturer's side, it just seems like there's many different ways to deal with cost increases, cost decreases, and I just feel that the way that we are doing it right now in terms of how we deal with our customers or retailers is is kind of like an antiquated way. And I wish that there was like a more win-win type of ⁓ way of operating where at the end of the day it's gonna be the consumer who who benefits from it.
speaker-0: Yeah, maybe ⁓ get to a point where you have to submit a ticket to the grocery code of Canada and say, hey, this is getting weird. This pricing scenario over here is getting weird. But ⁓ that that gets pretty extreme. But yeah, I hear ya. For those that don't know your brand maybe as well as I do, do you want to take a moment and share what it is that you guys make some of the SKUs that, you know, are really important to your lineup.
speaker-1: Sure. ⁓ so Nature Source is a family business. We've ⁓ been in operation for forty-six years now. I was originally founded by parents, Gary and Trudy, in nineteen eighty. And ⁓ their whole mindset when they founded the company is we wanted to make healthy food. This is the nineteen eighties. This is red pistachios were like a thing. And nobody thought to ask, like, why are the pistachios red and why are my hands all red now too? And should we be eating that? And so they were like, hey, you know, maybe we shouldn't be eating that. And they started looking at shelf stable products. They they're they last on the shelf for like two, three years. Why are they staying on the shelf for two or three years? Like this is supposed to be food. It's supposed to it's perishable. And so that was their whole ethos is let's let's make foods that are free of artificial flavors, colors, preservatives, focus on making really fresh product. So not sitting on inventory for too long, producing to order. And the idea behind that was is that we could guarantee the freshness of our product by doing that. And we we still live by those same principles. We we work very, very hard ⁓ on our supply chain and on our manufacturing to make sure that we can be just in time with our inventory and produce really fresh products and we're crazy about that. If you have a chance ⁓ to come to our factory, you'll see we have a temperature-controlled warehouse, which we're monitoring all the time. We have a special room just for almonds that's kept at an even lower temperature because we're crazy about our almonds, and we are One of the largest importers of almonds in Canada. So almonds are a really big ingredient for us. And we we take great pride in not only the freshness of our product, but also the quality. So again, when we go down to California, we have relationships with all these different almond processors that take the almonds off the trees and turn them into the almonds that we eat. And there's a special spec in California and it's the nature source spec. There's not that many people, not many processors that can make the nature source spec because we're We don't want almonds with chips on them or scratches. We don't want them to be too dissimilar in size. So like let's just say you're baking cookies at home, right? And and so generally speaking, if you're making cookies, you want them all to be the exact same size. If you make some too big and some smaller and you bake them at for the same amount of time, the ones that are too big are gonna be undercooked and the ones that are too small are gonna be overcooked. It's the same thing for almonds. So when we roast our almonds, we need to make sure that our input almonds, the ones that we're starting with, are all generally the same size, same level of moisture, and overall are gonna cook at about the same rate. And that is surprisingly hard to do. Even the the the specifications for almonds out of California, they give a range. They give a range. It's like okay, all of your almonds are gonna be exactly the size. There there's gonna be a range and there's some some play in that. And so like the nature source spec like, no, no, if if we give them like one percent too many of this size almond, they're gonna return the load. That's what makes our products so great when we when we produce them and Delivers on the taste. And so our most popular products are our tamari almonds. We've been manufacturing those. We are the original commercializers of tamari almonds. So there's other tamari almonds out there, ⁓ or tamari roasted almonds, tamari flavored almonds. Ours are the only tamari almonds, and we are very particular about that product. We bring in our tamari sauce from Japan, and we have a very specific supplier that's been doing it. And we're a company that really focuses on tradition. And heritage. And so this company that we buy from is a family business. They've been making the same sauce for 200 plus years. Like it's got a whole story behind it. And we also have a very artisanal roasting process. So on all of our marketing stuff, you'll see that we talk about our almonds being artisanally roasted in small batches. And that's really what we're talking about. We make them in small batches with a lot of people. It's a very labor-intensive process. But the guys that have been doing it are artisans. They've been working with us for 10, 20, one of them is over 30 years old. He retired two years ago and he's still here. These are artisans that really know, okay, the almonds need one minute more, one minute less. You know, how they they know how to vary that, just the right time to add whatever flavor it is that they're using on the almonds that they're producing. So tamari almonds, one of our top products. And if you haven't had a chance to try tamari almonds, definitely I recommend you're gonna have the best experience if you try a nature source tamario almonds. And then we have our oleo deliva, which is almonds that are dry roasted. And then tossed with olive oil and sea salt. And so we dry roast all of our nuts and seeds. We don't fry our nuts. So it's really important for me to say that like we don't fry the almonds in olive oil. We bake them first and then we toss them in olive oil and sea salt. And it it it's just it's got this wonderful finish. You get the the sweetness of the nut that comes through, the flavors of the olive oil, and in addition to the saltiness, and it's just it's it's a total flavor package. People love it.
speaker-0: Way, I forgot about red pistachio nuts. I remember as soon as you said it, I'm like, I remember that. We'll get back to the conversation in a second, but I want to take a moment to give a shout-out to this episode's sponsor, TD Business Banking. You know as well as I do that the consumer goods industry isn't just about making great product. It's about managing margins, navigating supply chains, and finding partners who actually get it. There's nothing worse than using some CPG lingo only to have your banker look at you like you have three heads. That's why I point founders and food leaders towards TD. They've dedicated themselves to the food and beverage sector with local relationship managers who partner with you to understand the hurdles that you face every day. Whether you're financing working capital, building and equipment purchases, or just want a banking partner who picks up what you're putting down, TD has the advice and expertise to help you grow your business. They aren't just bankers, they're a vital part of our industry ecosystem, and I'm proud to have them as a partner. Now let's get back to the show. It was the Tamario Alman. That was my first introduction to your brand. But now you guys, you have like mixes and blends, and you're doing all sorts of things and I knew you guys have been around for a while. I didn't know it was the 80s. So that makes you like a 50-year-plus brand, which kind of leads me to think that you might be some of the like a good kept secret, a best kept secret, in that a lot of consumers, I feel like they're starting to f discover you now. Maybe it's because the category and the categories that you're in is sort of growing and changing. What are you guys seeing in the marketplace around your category? And do you feel like there's a a trend moving towards more mixes and blends in the space?
speaker-1: That's great question. So we've seen a lot of evolution over the 46 years that we've been in business. And in terms of us also not being very well known, I mean, when we started out, we were selling to health food stores, mom and pop shops. That was really where we had our strength. And because our products were natural and they were no artificial flavors, colored preservatives, we really appealed to that type of consumer who eventually evolved into the organic consumer. And what I find is that the organic consumer is looking for a more plain product, you know, especially when you look at at Europe or even Mexico, a lot of the the nuts and seeds that they have are very basic. It's just a very basic mixture. There's not really a lot of flavor. It's not very exciting, if you ask me, but I think that that goes more towards what you're looking for with organic. We've always ⁓ and especially like you mentioned like your introduction to nature source was our tomari almonds, we've always been in the value added, flavored, innovative type of space and we want to stay there. And so we kind of shifted away from organic and w what consumers were going after in organic and more into mainstream. And and that's kind of the space that that we've been focusing on. And we we call it better for you. So our our products are better for you than some of the other snacks that you can get out there on the market right now. But they're not it's not diet food. I mean, if if you're gonna go run a marathon and you're building your superbody And you're measuring it all of your macros and all that stuff. I mean, we're probably not the brand for you, but if you're a mainstream consumer that enjoys good taste and flavor and liking, you know, ⁓ values what they eat, our brand really plays to to that. So and that's where we're seeing that people are responding very well. So we have different mixes, but we're always trying to add value. You know, how can we make our product unique?
speaker-0: What's the top seller in the in the mix lineup?
speaker-1: It depends. I mean if you can see on my ⁓ on my left ⁓ or I guess that's my right.
speaker-0: Yeah, I see. There's like a grocery store behind you.
speaker-1: Yeah, and we're actually we're going through a brand refresh. So we've got some old stuff up here and then some of the some of the new brands, ⁓ new branding is is down below. But we we've got ⁓ one one particularly unique product line that we have is our salad topper. And so very funny story. Well, funny to me. But ⁓ in terms of the development, it was really just a mix of ⁓ dried fruits, nuts, and seeds, but we like the way that it looked. It had more of a a green vibe to it and had smaller pieces, so it was really good for like sprinkling. And so we launched it, we called the salad topper. We were selling it in bulk and then I was looking at our stats and I was like, Hey, this salad topper is selling pretty well. And then we put it in the bag and again looking at the stats, hey, it's selling pretty well. And so we've actually grown that into a global product now. So we sell our products, ⁓ one of them being our salad topper, ⁓ in North America, Europe and Asia right now. So it's really it's got a a a broad reach and you know, makes us I guess not such a a little secret anymore.
speaker-0: That's amazing. Yeah, I agree. So talk to me about scale. If you're selling in multiple regions in the world, how big is your facility? How big is your team? Like, what's the scale of your operation these days?
speaker-1: We just moved ⁓ into a new building in twenty twenty three. So we previously for twenty-three years we were in the same twenty-five thousand square foot building. In twenty nineteen, I added an extra twenty-five thousand square feet in a distribution center. And then we had a truck that was like driving back and forth between the two buildings. And then finally we we said, Okay, it's time to move and consolidate. So we set up this new facility. It's ⁓ a hundred thousand square feet. It's I modernized as much as I could. But at the same time, not moving too far away from the artisanal manufacturing that that we do. So we still make our products in small batches, but we have like better ventilation systems and we have better tools to assist our employees to make the processing easier for them without taking away from the essentials that they're doing, which is ⁓ doing the production in small batches. So we have a hundred thousand square foot ⁓ facility. Our head count will vary anywhere between like let's say ninety and a hundred. twenty people, depending on the seasonality. We have a quality assurance department, an R and D department, sales, marketing, and then all the other administrative ⁓ people that ⁓ that help make our our business run every day.
speaker-0: That's amazing. I have to ask, given all the exporting that you do, what's that landscape been like working in countries that if the geopolitical landscape has changed or there's dynamics and you know, obviously in the food space, our American neighbors, they are our friends and suppliers. And we've all sort of those there's been this one big happy family kind of vibe for quite a while. It's there's been some tension lately, but you know, whenever I talk to anyone in the food side down there, you know, on the other side the border. There's this like longing of like, ⁓ do you remember when we got to like play hockey in the street? And that's missing a little bit. I know this bit of a rambling way to say it, but what's it been like to focus on your exporting and where have you found the most support and excitement for what you guys are doing?
speaker-1: Great question. So just with regards to the United States, I mean, and even on a broader term, we buy our commodities from all over the world. We get some of our seeds from China, we get our cranberries predominantly from here in Quebec, or from some of their US plants from the from the same company. All eighty-five percent of the world's almonds come from California. A hundred percent of our almonds come from California. And so we're we're subjects to everything going on. at all times. And that's why you asked your first question was, you know, where do I wish there was more innovation? And I said, well when it comes to pricing and it's because it's so dynamic. We have th like almost every day there's something new that's going to impact the price of one of our commodities, either in a good way or in a bad way. So we're we're living this on a day to day basis. You know, the Strait of Hormuz gets closed and fuel costs go up and that well, I should say oil costs go up. And so one is that causes fuel costs to go up. And so now overseas freight is costing more. And I had no idea that the the impact would be so swift, but plastic packaging is made from petroleum. And so when the cost of petroleum goes up, then the cost of the packaging goes up. And on top of that, fertilizer. I've seen a couple articles in the news about that. I feel like consumers don't really ⁓ get exposed to this level of of depth, but fertilizer. Is a petroleum-based product. And so cost of fertilizer goes up. Then either what that means is that it's going to cost the farmers more to fertilize their crops for this coming year, which could raise the cost of crops, or if they can't afford those fertilizers, then they're going to produce less. And if they produce less, then supplies go down and cost goes up. So it's such a dynamic world that we live in. And being in food, we are exposed to so many different forces at all times. You know, that the US Canada situation, which is challenging and troubling, is one issue that we're facing. But then, you know, everywhere else we're also facing a lot of other issues. So as much as it was insanely stressful in January to April or May of last year, and you know, when everything happened in in June, right? And everyone was like said, well, are we going to renew NASTA, are we going to renew Kuzma? I was like, ⁓ whatever. At this point, I'm so burnt out from it. It's just sort of like, whatever, it'll be what it'll be, and we'll we'll ride it out. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna panic. And I I think if I'd have to say one piece of advice or one thing that I've learned, and it was ⁓ somebody in the food industry ⁓ who who mentored me and a and a colleague many, many years ago. He said he's like, Look, in the food industry, there's no emergencies. And ⁓ I think that I always have to remind myself of that. Like whatever's going on, it's it's a relatively slow moving ship. Like unless the building's on fire. We don't need to run around like chickens with our heads cut off. We can take our time to evaluate the situation and come up with ⁓ with a response plan. And so it's it's just really important to be measured ⁓ and strategic about every everything that we do, you know? So we'll put disclaimers in our quotes now. It says like, well, if this product doesn't qualify, like if almonds, let's say, if if all of a sudden Canada puts a tariff on almond imports from the United States, then our cost will go up. And so we need to be able to pass that along to our retailers and you know, so forth onto the the consumers or try to find any way possible to avoid that.
speaker-0: Well, and passing those price changes on to retailers, that's really hard. I mean, ⁓ sorry, consumer, but forget you for a moment. Just bringing price changes to a retailer is a really, really tough gig. They don't they don't like it, they don't respond well to it, they don't do it quickly or in a cadence that is relevant usually to the manufacturing side. So that's that's always really tricky. Do you find that with your export partners and the the retailers that you're working with internationally, do they is the Scenario the same with them, or are they more responsive to price changes?
speaker-1: ⁓ they're they're more challenging. They're more challenging. As soon as we leave Canada or leave North America, then it becomes a whole new ball game and every market has its own dynamics and oftentimes we don't understand them as well as the local people do. And so Canada, I know that I'm competing with Canadians and Americans. When we look at like Asia, all of a sudden I'm competing with Australia. And that's a whole different ballgame. Every market presents its its own set of unique challenges. And they all have to be treated with like a measured approach that's strategic and well researched and really, really well thought through before you do anything. At the end of the day, like business is business and and I think with everything, you have to be strategic in terms of what you're doing. ⁓ you have to really think about your customer and their unique situations and how your changes are gonna impact them. But we we work with them. Like I'll I can give you an example. I have ⁓ customer in Japan and they were buying a a larger format bag that we made and they said, Look, you know, with the state of the yen right now and with the exchange, it's just your bag costs so much right now. And even though we focus on larger formats, we're gonna reduce those sizes in order to to have like a a more reasonable price at the at the shelf. And so we went along with them and we're developing a format just for them. that will hopefully resolve that issue and and we'll be able to move forward together. So, you know, it's it's about being strategic, it's about being flexible and responding to their needs. Especially when you're dealing with international and you've got language and you've got time gaps, you have to really, really read into everything that your buyer is telling you and try to read through the the noise of like the languages to see, okay, what do you really need? How how can we really get you the right solution?
speaker-0: And you mentioned the brand is going through some transition. I see, like you said, old packaging and new packaging behind you. When it comes to the strategy behind that change, my guess is that you didn't get there quickly, that it took some time to get to the point where you're like, all right, we're gonna do this glow up. Talk to me about the process. Why did you feel like you needed to make the change? And what are you thinking that this change is gonna do on shelf for the brand?
speaker-1: I have two answers. One is really smart and strategic, and the other is just sort of circumstantial. But ⁓ basically I again we we were a mom and pop business until not too long ago. And in fact, up until 2018, we didn't really have any listings and any major retailer except for IGA Quebec here in in Montreal. We had a wonderful sales rep and she literally just went to every single IGA and was like selling backdoor to them. And that was all of our retail business. And it really took off for us in 2019, 2020 when I took a different approach to our marketing and branding. And so what I saw, what we used to do is just sort of say, like, okay, it's time to like fix up our packaging. Let's just sort of like brainstorm and come up with something and do it. It was really very ad hoc, very reactive. And what we ended up with is packaging that people didn't really respond very well to. And I said, you know what, let's take a step back. Let's take a long term strategic approach to this. We don't need to do new pac packaging tomorrow. Let's hire somebody to help us. Let's do some market research. Let's figure out really what our our consumers are into and develop packaging based on on that research. And so we did that in 2019. And then in 2020, we launched a new packaging and we actually ended up getting into the majority of the major retailers in Canada. And I I think a lot of it had to do with our with our upgrade and packaging. And so we launched it in 2020. And I look for other signals in the market of how long you know, your packaging should last for and this is probably not connected at all. And somebody who really knows about marketing would probably hear me saying this and say like you are a hundred percent wrong, Mitch. But I look at cars. I like cars. And so like I look at like the the life cycle of a design and it seems for the most part they launch a car, it looks the same for like two or three years and then they do a facelift for another two or three years. And then they completely redesign. And so to me, it seems like the life cycle is about four to six years. And so I was thinking, you know what, probably when we launched in in 2020, I said, probably we've got five years on this design. And so when Health Canada released their new guidelines for those front-of-pack warning labels, and we knew that we were gonna have to add them to our packaging, I said, you know what, this is a great opportunity. It's gonna go into effect 2026. Let's take the opportunity now to refresh, to do a facelift on our ⁓ on our packaging. And so We started in 2024. We started looking for a firm. We interviewed several really, really great firms. ⁓ they all I felt like really understood us, really had good plans. And we ended up going with ⁓ with the firm that we chose. And they were like, listen, you like we know you wanted to do just like a light refresh, but we really think that we could take your brand somewhere else. And they presented me this vision of what our brand would look like. And I was like, wait, so this is included in the package? And they're like, Yeah. And I was like, Okay, let's do it. So and so it took us ⁓ it took us quite some time again. We had to do our market research again. What what are our consumers saying that they like about our brand? What should we be focusing on? What should we remove? How do we clear out the noise so that they can really focus on on what they like most about our our our products? And that's what what I believe that we accomplished. I mean, if you look behind me, you can see over here, very calm up there, very noisy. So I I think that we we achieved that goal. And like I said, so part of it was strategic. I felt like we needed to update the brand. And the other was circumstantial. We had to do something to our bags because we had to add those front of pack warning labels. Thankfully, there's very few of our products that actually have that front of pack warning label. Our like I said, our products are better for you. So yes, there's some that have ⁓ elevated like let's say saturated fat, but it's not because we're adding saturated fat. It's just that's that's nuts.
speaker-0: Yeah, the I know that front-of-pack warning sent a lot of manufacturers down a rabbit hole of chaos. And one of the businesses I'm involved with ⁓ we're addressing saturated fat with an ingredient, which doesn't apply to you, by the way. So there's no sales pitch coming from me. We can't deal with the oil in nuts when you sell nuts. But one of the things I'm fascinated by in the better for you category is that these front-of-pack warnings. I'm curious to see where the consumer sentiment is going around do consumers perceive those warnings as that food being dangerous or less healthy and sort of where it's going to land. You know, in some categories it's it's a it lands with a like a a thud, like it doesn't really impact other categories, it's playing a significant role in in changing consumer behavior. So it'll be interesting to see at each category where that lands for you. So when you say a few of your products, have you guys seen an impact on those SKUs as a result of that labeling or has it had no no impact at all? You don't you know, you don't even have to answer that. That's very that's very intimate of me to ask a manufacturer, but
speaker-1: It's a good question. And and what I will say, because of our experience dealing with some international markets, the first country that had to face this type of labeling is ⁓ Mexico. And you say notice I have a lot of my Mexican packaging over here and it had these warning labels. So when I was ⁓ doing our research on the market and I I spoke to ⁓ our country manager that that we work with in Mexico, we started talking about it. I Wow, these they're huge and they're very like we had to move the logo. Our logo completed to the other side of the bag in order to follow their their rules. And ⁓ he said he's like, listen, every single product on the shelf has it. And so it has no effect because you're just blind to it. And when we started looking at Canada, we were like, you know what? It's probably gonna be the same thing. You're probably gonna be blind to it. I did note, and this is on a personal side, I was like walking around Costco and and I saw like there was two elderly ladies and they were like looking at the box and they said, It's high in saturated fat. And not my product, but for them, I think it's great. I think it's really, really great for people who like are if you have a a health condition or you're of a certain age where you have to really watch what you're eating, then yeah, they're very helpful as like, you know, your doctor could say, Don't buy any products that has says sodium on the front of the bag. I think that that's wonderful. But for the majority of the population, my guess I mean, I have young kids. And what I've noticed is is ⁓ I don't do the shopping at home and so what I notice is what's in my pantry. Literally every box has one of those warning labels. And I've asked my wife, like, what do you think about it? And she's like, It's it's kids' snacks. Like that's you know, that's what they wanna eat. And as much as I'd love for them to eat something better without those warning labels, pretty much everything has and unless we were gonna take it upon ourselves to start making them homemade snacks every day to bring to to summer camp or to to school, we're stuck. And as much as I'd love them to bring our products, in fact we have some really good ones that they like, can't bring that to school. Yeah.
speaker-0: Nuts in schools. That's always, I think for me, when I think back to like all the peanut butter sandwiches I had peanut butter, banana, peanut butter jam, peanut butter honey, peanut butter and peanut butter. I loved peanut butter. I loved anything with peanut. ⁓ yeah, it's we have a 12-year-old daughter, so we have to manage the the lunch plan. And it's ⁓ it can be tricky sometimes. So a lot of manufacturers are like nut free. You guys are the opposite. You guys are like all nuts all the time.
speaker-1: Well actually we are peanut free. Yeah. So that was we started that in twenty twelve and it took me about four years of research and implementing programs and testing before we felt confident putting that on our on our packaging. And so now you'll see on all of our bags it says made in a peanut free facility. And we have a very robust peanut control program. And I think since twenty sixteen we've ⁓ we've had that on our on our bags. Now, a lot of schools still won't let you to bring our products in because they contain nuts, but At least they don't contain peanuts. I know it's it's very funny when I meet people and they'll be like, ⁓ nature sports, you guys make the peanuts and I'm like, That is the only thing we don't make.
speaker-0: You're like, thanks anyway. Thanks anyway. So what's next for you guys? What's coming down the pike in well twenty twenty seven? I'm sure you're planning already for that fiscal year. What's what's coming up next?
speaker-1: one thing that we've noticed is that at a certain point I was like, you know what, Canada, I feel like we've tapped it out. We're in, like I said, the majority of the Canadian retailers. There's a handful of them that it would be nice if we were in like like Law Laws has several different types of ⁓ stores. So we're not in all of their types of stores. It would be nice if we had full distribution there. That would be nice, but there's a lot of other areas in Canadian retail that I realize we haven't we haven't touched. And we know that people eat and love our products. And so we gotta find ways of bringing them to those other channels that they shop in, like, you know, as an example, convenience stores, gas stations. ⁓ not everybody wants to eat unhealthy food when they go to the gas station or when they, you know, when they're on the road or whatever the case may be. And so we want to be that better for you snack in that in that space. And then there's more that we're going for in our international markets. ⁓ we have ⁓ a new product that I recently launched that's doing particularly well in in one channel and I'm hoping to bring that out into more in the ⁓ in the coming months. I can't talk about it too much. It's a little top secret. It is behind me though. So I'm just gonna
speaker-0: It's a little too blurry. I I would start guessing, but I was I would get us in trouble and you'd hang up on me. ⁓ last question for you. Favorite grocery shopping experience anywhere in the world? Or was
speaker-1: ⁓ it's Costco. It's always Costco. Doesn't matter. Whether it's my local Costco or it's the Costco in Japan, I'm always gonna be wowed by all the different things that they have, their willingness to try new things and experiment and their belief in the in the treasure hunt. You know, you really just don't find that anywhere else aside from from Costco. And it's it's it's always fun. Well, until you get the bill.
speaker-0: Which Costco where? Yeah, well, especially if in your cart you have a laptop and a TV and a car battery at the same time. I ⁓ I remember going to Costco in ⁓ in Maui. It was my first sort of, yeah, like I don't know what you call it. I know it's international is not quite the right word, but sort of my my first time visiting a Costco, not in my neighborhood. And ⁓ I was, yeah, I was shocked with how you would think it would be nearly identical. And it wasn't. Yes, there was some similarities in.
speaker-1: But I just came to get milk.
speaker-0: you know, format and layout of the store and some familiar brands, but it was different enough. And when I hear, especially on areas of like Better for You or Sustainability or the ESG play, like there, I feel like Costco is actually doing quite well, better than most retailers in those areas. And I get excited when I hear people say, Yep, we're working with Costco and we're taking their cues and Costco believes in us. What a great signal to a to a brand. So Mitch, I love that we got to have this conversation. It's so cool to see what you guys are doing. I'm sorry that I commented that you I think that you're a best guest secret. Clearly you're not a secret, but ⁓ I love seeing you guys growing across the country and beyond and excited for what's to come.
speaker-1: Thank you. Thank very much. I appreciate the opportunity to ⁓ to chat with you. And ⁓ I do have to add just one tiny thing, if I could throw it in there. That's just unbelievable. So I was I was recently in Japan. I was on a trade mission. The the I think the Quebec government helped sponsor us to ⁓ to go on this trade mission ⁓ to Japan and so went around, we checked out all the grocery stores and saw some just really interesting products and when I came home I saw them at T and T supermarket and I was like, This is amazing, like this was a good product. And then I went to Costco and they had the same thing. And I was like, How did they know? It's crazy to see how interconnected the world is and how we can all share food literally across the globe.
speaker-0: It's it's a way to experience cultures too, to eat what people are eating halfway around the world and to enjoy it in a way that ⁓ is maybe unfamiliar to us, but it's something exciting and new. So yeah, food is a a wonderful it's entertaining and hopefully a great way to make a living as well. Blood, sweat, and tears. Thanks for listening to this episode of Shelf Space. If you like what you hear, I would be eternally grateful for a five-star rating and a quick share on social.
speaker-1: It's it's a challenging way to make a living.
speaker-0: Your support means the world to me and our partners. TD, Faskin, REMA, Pacific Coast Distribution, Picnic Creative, and Benchmark 60. For bonus content and resources from our sponsors, go to shelfspacepodcast.com. I'm Corbin Hebert. I'm glad we're on this rocket ship together. I'll see you in the future.
speaker-1: First all, thank you for the kind words. And ⁓ my answer, it'll always depend on what I'm dealing with at the time. Right now I'm dealing with a lot of stuff regarding pricing. And so like if you ask me for an innovation, I wish that there was more innovation around pricing because it seems like there's and I guess from the manufacturer's side, right? From the manufacturer's side, it just seems like there's many different ways to deal with cost increases, cost decreases, and I just feel that the way that we are doing it right now in terms of how we deal with our customers or retailers is is kind of like an antiquated way. And I wish that there was like a more win-win type of ⁓ way of operating where at the end of the day it's gonna be the consumer who who benefits from it.
speaker-0: Yeah, maybe ⁓ get to a point where you have to submit a ticket to the grocery code of Canada and say, hey, this is getting weird. This pricing scenario over here is getting weird. But ⁓ that that gets pretty extreme. But yeah, I hear ya. For those that don't know your brand maybe as well as I do, do you want to take a moment and share what it is that you guys make some of the SKUs that, you know, are really important to your lineup.
speaker-1: Sure. ⁓ so Nature Source is a family business. We've ⁓ been in operation for forty-six years now. I was originally founded by parents, Gary and Trudy, in nineteen eighty. And ⁓ their whole mindset when they founded the company is we wanted to make healthy food. This is the nineteen eighties. This is red pistachios were like a thing. And nobody thought to ask, like, why are the pistachios red and why are my hands all red now too? And should we be eating that? And so they were like, hey, you know, maybe we shouldn't be eating that. And they started looking at shelf stable products. They they're they last on the shelf for like two, three years. Why are they staying on the shelf for two or three years? Like this is supposed to be food. It's supposed to it's perishable. And so that was their whole ethos is let's let's make foods that are free of artificial flavors, colors, preservatives, focus on making really fresh product. So not sitting on inventory for too long, producing to order. And the idea behind that was is that we could guarantee the freshness of our product by doing that. And we we still live by those same principles. We we work very, very hard ⁓ on our supply chain and on our manufacturing to make sure that we can be just in time with our inventory and produce really fresh products and we're crazy about that. If you have a chance ⁓ to come to our factory, you'll see we have a temperature-controlled warehouse, which we're monitoring all the time. We have a special room just for almonds that's kept at an even lower temperature because we're crazy about our almonds, and we are One of the largest importers of almonds in Canada. So almonds are a really big ingredient for us. And we we take great pride in not only the freshness of our product, but also the quality. So again, when we go down to California, we have relationships with all these different almond processors that take the almonds off the trees and turn them into the almonds that we eat. And there's a special spec in California and it's the nature source spec. There's not that many people, not many processors that can make the nature source spec because we're We don't want almonds with chips on them or scratches. We don't want them to be too dissimilar in size. So like let's just say you're baking cookies at home, right? And and so generally speaking, if you're making cookies, you want them all to be the exact same size. If you make some too big and some smaller and you bake them at for the same amount of time, the ones that are too big are gonna be undercooked and the ones that are too small are gonna be overcooked. It's the same thing for almonds. So when we roast our almonds, we need to make sure that our input almonds, the ones that we're starting with, are all generally the same size, same level of moisture, and overall are gonna cook at about the same rate. And that is surprisingly hard to do. Even the the the specifications for almonds out of California, they give a range. They give a range. It's like okay, all of your almonds are gonna be exactly the size. There there's gonna be a range and there's some some play in that. And so like the nature source spec like, no, no, if if we give them like one percent too many of this size almond, they're gonna return the load. That's what makes our products so great when we when we produce them and Delivers on the taste. And so our most popular products are our tamari almonds. We've been manufacturing those. We are the original commercializers of tamari almonds. So there's other tamari almonds out there, ⁓ or tamari roasted almonds, tamari flavored almonds. Ours are the only tamari almonds, and we are very particular about that product. We bring in our tamari sauce from Japan, and we have a very specific supplier that's been doing it. And we're a company that really focuses on tradition. And heritage. And so this company that we buy from is a family business. They've been making the same sauce for 200 plus years. Like it's got a whole story behind it. And we also have a very artisanal roasting process. So on all of our marketing stuff, you'll see that we talk about our almonds being artisanally roasted in small batches. And that's really what we're talking about. We make them in small batches with a lot of people. It's a very labor-intensive process. But the guys that have been doing it are artisans. They've been working with us for 10, 20, one of them is over 30 years old. He retired two years ago and he's still here. These are artisans that really know, okay, the almonds need one minute more, one minute less. You know, how they they know how to vary that, just the right time to add whatever flavor it is that they're using on the almonds that they're producing. So tamari almonds, one of our top products. And if you haven't had a chance to try tamari almonds, definitely I recommend you're gonna have the best experience if you try a nature source tamario almonds. And then we have our oleo deliva, which is almonds that are dry roasted. And then tossed with olive oil and sea salt. And so we dry roast all of our nuts and seeds. We don't fry our nuts. So it's really important for me to say that like we don't fry the almonds in olive oil. We bake them first and then we toss them in olive oil and sea salt. And it it it's just it's got this wonderful finish. You get the the sweetness of the nut that comes through, the flavors of the olive oil, and in addition to the saltiness, and it's just it's it's a total flavor package. People love it.
speaker-0: Way, I forgot about red pistachio nuts. I remember as soon as you said it, I'm like, I remember that. We'll get back to the conversation in a second, but I want to take a moment to give a shout-out to this episode's sponsor, TD Business Banking. You know as well as I do that the consumer goods industry isn't just about making great product. It's about managing margins, navigating supply chains, and finding partners who actually get it. There's nothing worse than using some CPG lingo only to have your banker look at you like you have three heads. That's why I point founders and food leaders towards TD. They've dedicated themselves to the food and beverage sector with local relationship managers who partner with you to understand the hurdles that you face every day. Whether you're financing working capital, building and equipment purchases, or just want a banking partner who picks up what you're putting down, TD has the advice and expertise to help you grow your business. They aren't just bankers, they're a vital part of our industry ecosystem, and I'm proud to have them as a partner. Now let's get back to the show. It was the Tamario Alman. That was my first introduction to your brand. But now you guys, you have like mixes and blends, and you're doing all sorts of things and I knew you guys have been around for a while. I didn't know it was the 80s. So that makes you like a 50-year-plus brand, which kind of leads me to think that you might be some of the like a good kept secret, a best kept secret, in that a lot of consumers, I feel like they're starting to f discover you now. Maybe it's because the category and the categories that you're in is sort of growing and changing. What are you guys seeing in the marketplace around your category? And do you feel like there's a a trend moving towards more mixes and blends in the space?
speaker-1: That's great question. So we've seen a lot of evolution over the 46 years that we've been in business. And in terms of us also not being very well known, I mean, when we started out, we were selling to health food stores, mom and pop shops. That was really where we had our strength. And because our products were natural and they were no artificial flavors, colored preservatives, we really appealed to that type of consumer who eventually evolved into the organic consumer. And what I find is that the organic consumer is looking for a more plain product, you know, especially when you look at at Europe or even Mexico, a lot of the the nuts and seeds that they have are very basic. It's just a very basic mixture. There's not really a lot of flavor. It's not very exciting, if you ask me, but I think that that goes more towards what you're looking for with organic. We've always ⁓ and especially like you mentioned like your introduction to nature source was our tomari almonds, we've always been in the value added, flavored, innovative type of space and we want to stay there. And so we kind of shifted away from organic and w what consumers were going after in organic and more into mainstream. And and that's kind of the space that that we've been focusing on. And we we call it better for you. So our our products are better for you than some of the other snacks that you can get out there on the market right now. But they're not it's not diet food. I mean, if if you're gonna go run a marathon and you're building your superbody And you're measuring it all of your macros and all that stuff. I mean, we're probably not the brand for you, but if you're a mainstream consumer that enjoys good taste and flavor and liking, you know, ⁓ values what they eat, our brand really plays to to that. So and that's where we're seeing that people are responding very well. So we have different mixes, but we're always trying to add value. You know, how can we make our product unique?
speaker-0: What's the top seller in the in the mix lineup?
speaker-1: It depends. I mean if you can see on my ⁓ on my left ⁓ or I guess that's my right.
speaker-0: Yeah, I see. There's like a grocery store behind you.
speaker-1: Yeah, and we're actually we're going through a brand refresh. So we've got some old stuff up here and then some of the some of the new brands, ⁓ new branding is is down below. But we we've got ⁓ one one particularly unique product line that we have is our salad topper. And so very funny story. Well, funny to me. But ⁓ in terms of the development, it was really just a mix of ⁓ dried fruits, nuts, and seeds, but we like the way that it looked. It had more of a a green vibe to it and had smaller pieces, so it was really good for like sprinkling. And so we launched it, we called the salad topper. We were selling it in bulk and then I was looking at our stats and I was like, Hey, this salad topper is selling pretty well. And then we put it in the bag and again looking at the stats, hey, it's selling pretty well. And so we've actually grown that into a global product now. So we sell our products, ⁓ one of them being our salad topper, ⁓ in North America, Europe and Asia right now. So it's really it's got a a a broad reach and you know, makes us I guess not such a a little secret anymore.
speaker-0: That's amazing. Yeah, I agree. So talk to me about scale. If you're selling in multiple regions in the world, how big is your facility? How big is your team? Like, what's the scale of your operation these days?
speaker-1: We just moved ⁓ into a new building in twenty twenty three. So we previously for twenty-three years we were in the same twenty-five thousand square foot building. In twenty nineteen, I added an extra twenty-five thousand square feet in a distribution center. And then we had a truck that was like driving back and forth between the two buildings. And then finally we we said, Okay, it's time to move and consolidate. So we set up this new facility. It's ⁓ a hundred thousand square feet. It's I modernized as much as I could. But at the same time, not moving too far away from the artisanal manufacturing that that we do. So we still make our products in small batches, but we have like better ventilation systems and we have better tools to assist our employees to make the processing easier for them without taking away from the essentials that they're doing, which is ⁓ doing the production in small batches. So we have a hundred thousand square foot ⁓ facility. Our head count will vary anywhere between like let's say ninety and a hundred. twenty people, depending on the seasonality. We have a quality assurance department, an R and D department, sales, marketing, and then all the other administrative ⁓ people that ⁓ that help make our our business run every day.
speaker-0: That's amazing. I have to ask, given all the exporting that you do, what's that landscape been like working in countries that if the geopolitical landscape has changed or there's dynamics and you know, obviously in the food space, our American neighbors, they are our friends and suppliers. And we've all sort of those there's been this one big happy family kind of vibe for quite a while. It's there's been some tension lately, but you know, whenever I talk to anyone in the food side down there, you know, on the other side the border. There's this like longing of like, ⁓ do you remember when we got to like play hockey in the street? And that's missing a little bit. I know this bit of a rambling way to say it, but what's it been like to focus on your exporting and where have you found the most support and excitement for what you guys are doing?
speaker-1: Great question. So just with regards to the United States, I mean, and even on a broader term, we buy our commodities from all over the world. We get some of our seeds from China, we get our cranberries predominantly from here in Quebec, or from some of their US plants from the from the same company. All eighty-five percent of the world's almonds come from California. A hundred percent of our almonds come from California. And so we're we're subjects to everything going on. at all times. And that's why you asked your first question was, you know, where do I wish there was more innovation? And I said, well when it comes to pricing and it's because it's so dynamic. We have th like almost every day there's something new that's going to impact the price of one of our commodities, either in a good way or in a bad way. So we're we're living this on a day to day basis. You know, the Strait of Hormuz gets closed and fuel costs go up and that well, I should say oil costs go up. And so one is that causes fuel costs to go up. And so now overseas freight is costing more. And I had no idea that the the impact would be so swift, but plastic packaging is made from petroleum. And so when the cost of petroleum goes up, then the cost of the packaging goes up. And on top of that, fertilizer. I've seen a couple articles in the news about that. I feel like consumers don't really ⁓ get exposed to this level of of depth, but fertilizer. Is a petroleum-based product. And so cost of fertilizer goes up. Then either what that means is that it's going to cost the farmers more to fertilize their crops for this coming year, which could raise the cost of crops, or if they can't afford those fertilizers, then they're going to produce less. And if they produce less, then supplies go down and cost goes up. So it's such a dynamic world that we live in. And being in food, we are exposed to so many different forces at all times. You know, that the US Canada situation, which is challenging and troubling, is one issue that we're facing. But then, you know, everywhere else we're also facing a lot of other issues. So as much as it was insanely stressful in January to April or May of last year, and you know, when everything happened in in June, right? And everyone was like said, well, are we going to renew NASTA, are we going to renew Kuzma? I was like, ⁓ whatever. At this point, I'm so burnt out from it. It's just sort of like, whatever, it'll be what it'll be, and we'll we'll ride it out. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna panic. And I I think if I'd have to say one piece of advice or one thing that I've learned, and it was ⁓ somebody in the food industry ⁓ who who mentored me and a and a colleague many, many years ago. He said he's like, Look, in the food industry, there's no emergencies. And ⁓ I think that I always have to remind myself of that. Like whatever's going on, it's it's a relatively slow moving ship. Like unless the building's on fire. We don't need to run around like chickens with our heads cut off. We can take our time to evaluate the situation and come up with ⁓ with a response plan. And so it's it's just really important to be measured ⁓ and strategic about every everything that we do, you know? So we'll put disclaimers in our quotes now. It says like, well, if this product doesn't qualify, like if almonds, let's say, if if all of a sudden Canada puts a tariff on almond imports from the United States, then our cost will go up. And so we need to be able to pass that along to our retailers and you know, so forth onto the the consumers or try to find any way possible to avoid that.
speaker-0: Well, and passing those price changes on to retailers, that's really hard. I mean, ⁓ sorry, consumer, but forget you for a moment. Just bringing price changes to a retailer is a really, really tough gig. They don't they don't like it, they don't respond well to it, they don't do it quickly or in a cadence that is relevant usually to the manufacturing side. So that's that's always really tricky. Do you find that with your export partners and the the retailers that you're working with internationally, do they is the Scenario the same with them, or are they more responsive to price changes?
speaker-1: ⁓ they're they're more challenging. They're more challenging. As soon as we leave Canada or leave North America, then it becomes a whole new ball game and every market has its own dynamics and oftentimes we don't understand them as well as the local people do. And so Canada, I know that I'm competing with Canadians and Americans. When we look at like Asia, all of a sudden I'm competing with Australia. And that's a whole different ballgame. Every market presents its its own set of unique challenges. And they all have to be treated with like a measured approach that's strategic and well researched and really, really well thought through before you do anything. At the end of the day, like business is business and and I think with everything, you have to be strategic in terms of what you're doing. ⁓ you have to really think about your customer and their unique situations and how your changes are gonna impact them. But we we work with them. Like I'll I can give you an example. I have ⁓ customer in Japan and they were buying a a larger format bag that we made and they said, Look, you know, with the state of the yen right now and with the exchange, it's just your bag costs so much right now. And even though we focus on larger formats, we're gonna reduce those sizes in order to to have like a a more reasonable price at the at the shelf. And so we went along with them and we're developing a format just for them. that will hopefully resolve that issue and and we'll be able to move forward together. So, you know, it's it's about being strategic, it's about being flexible and responding to their needs. Especially when you're dealing with international and you've got language and you've got time gaps, you have to really, really read into everything that your buyer is telling you and try to read through the the noise of like the languages to see, okay, what do you really need? How how can we really get you the right solution?
speaker-0: And you mentioned the brand is going through some transition. I see, like you said, old packaging and new packaging behind you. When it comes to the strategy behind that change, my guess is that you didn't get there quickly, that it took some time to get to the point where you're like, all right, we're gonna do this glow up. Talk to me about the process. Why did you feel like you needed to make the change? And what are you thinking that this change is gonna do on shelf for the brand?
speaker-1: I have two answers. One is really smart and strategic, and the other is just sort of circumstantial. But ⁓ basically I again we we were a mom and pop business until not too long ago. And in fact, up until 2018, we didn't really have any listings and any major retailer except for IGA Quebec here in in Montreal. We had a wonderful sales rep and she literally just went to every single IGA and was like selling backdoor to them. And that was all of our retail business. And it really took off for us in 2019, 2020 when I took a different approach to our marketing and branding. And so what I saw, what we used to do is just sort of say, like, okay, it's time to like fix up our packaging. Let's just sort of like brainstorm and come up with something and do it. It was really very ad hoc, very reactive. And what we ended up with is packaging that people didn't really respond very well to. And I said, you know what, let's take a step back. Let's take a long term strategic approach to this. We don't need to do new pac packaging tomorrow. Let's hire somebody to help us. Let's do some market research. Let's figure out really what our our consumers are into and develop packaging based on on that research. And so we did that in 2019. And then in 2020, we launched a new packaging and we actually ended up getting into the majority of the major retailers in Canada. And I I think a lot of it had to do with our with our upgrade and packaging. And so we launched it in 2020. And I look for other signals in the market of how long you know, your packaging should last for and this is probably not connected at all. And somebody who really knows about marketing would probably hear me saying this and say like you are a hundred percent wrong, Mitch. But I look at cars. I like cars. And so like I look at like the the life cycle of a design and it seems for the most part they launch a car, it looks the same for like two or three years and then they do a facelift for another two or three years. And then they completely redesign. And so to me, it seems like the life cycle is about four to six years. And so I was thinking, you know what, probably when we launched in in 2020, I said, probably we've got five years on this design. And so when Health Canada released their new guidelines for those front-of-pack warning labels, and we knew that we were gonna have to add them to our packaging, I said, you know what, this is a great opportunity. It's gonna go into effect 2026. Let's take the opportunity now to refresh, to do a facelift on our ⁓ on our packaging. And so We started in 2024. We started looking for a firm. We interviewed several really, really great firms. ⁓ they all I felt like really understood us, really had good plans. And we ended up going with ⁓ with the firm that we chose. And they were like, listen, you like we know you wanted to do just like a light refresh, but we really think that we could take your brand somewhere else. And they presented me this vision of what our brand would look like. And I was like, wait, so this is included in the package? And they're like, Yeah. And I was like, Okay, let's do it. So and so it took us ⁓ it took us quite some time again. We had to do our market research again. What what are our consumers saying that they like about our brand? What should we be focusing on? What should we remove? How do we clear out the noise so that they can really focus on on what they like most about our our our products? And that's what what I believe that we accomplished. I mean, if you look behind me, you can see over here, very calm up there, very noisy. So I I think that we we achieved that goal. And like I said, so part of it was strategic. I felt like we needed to update the brand. And the other was circumstantial. We had to do something to our bags because we had to add those front of pack warning labels. Thankfully, there's very few of our products that actually have that front of pack warning label. Our like I said, our products are better for you. So yes, there's some that have ⁓ elevated like let's say saturated fat, but it's not because we're adding saturated fat. It's just that's that's nuts.
speaker-0: Yeah, the I know that front-of-pack warning sent a lot of manufacturers down a rabbit hole of chaos. And one of the businesses I'm involved with ⁓ we're addressing saturated fat with an ingredient, which doesn't apply to you, by the way. So there's no sales pitch coming from me. We can't deal with the oil in nuts when you sell nuts. But one of the things I'm fascinated by in the better for you category is that these front-of-pack warnings. I'm curious to see where the consumer sentiment is going around do consumers perceive those warnings as that food being dangerous or less healthy and sort of where it's going to land. You know, in some categories it's it's a it lands with a like a a thud, like it doesn't really impact other categories, it's playing a significant role in in changing consumer behavior. So it'll be interesting to see at each category where that lands for you. So when you say a few of your products, have you guys seen an impact on those SKUs as a result of that labeling or has it had no no impact at all? You don't you know, you don't even have to answer that. That's very that's very intimate of me to ask a manufacturer, but
speaker-1: It's a good question. And and what I will say, because of our experience dealing with some international markets, the first country that had to face this type of labeling is ⁓ Mexico. And you say notice I have a lot of my Mexican packaging over here and it had these warning labels. So when I was ⁓ doing our research on the market and I I spoke to ⁓ our country manager that that we work with in Mexico, we started talking about it. I Wow, these they're huge and they're very like we had to move the logo. Our logo completed to the other side of the bag in order to follow their their rules. And ⁓ he said he's like, listen, every single product on the shelf has it. And so it has no effect because you're just blind to it. And when we started looking at Canada, we were like, you know what? It's probably gonna be the same thing. You're probably gonna be blind to it. I did note, and this is on a personal side, I was like walking around Costco and and I saw like there was two elderly ladies and they were like looking at the box and they said, It's high in saturated fat. And not my product, but for them, I think it's great. I think it's really, really great for people who like are if you have a a health condition or you're of a certain age where you have to really watch what you're eating, then yeah, they're very helpful as like, you know, your doctor could say, Don't buy any products that has says sodium on the front of the bag. I think that that's wonderful. But for the majority of the population, my guess I mean, I have young kids. And what I've noticed is is ⁓ I don't do the shopping at home and so what I notice is what's in my pantry. Literally every box has one of those warning labels. And I've asked my wife, like, what do you think about it? And she's like, It's it's kids' snacks. Like that's you know, that's what they wanna eat. And as much as I'd love for them to eat something better without those warning labels, pretty much everything has and unless we were gonna take it upon ourselves to start making them homemade snacks every day to bring to to summer camp or to to school, we're stuck. And as much as I'd love them to bring our products, in fact we have some really good ones that they like, can't bring that to school. Yeah.
speaker-0: Nuts in schools. That's always, I think for me, when I think back to like all the peanut butter sandwiches I had peanut butter, banana, peanut butter jam, peanut butter honey, peanut butter and peanut butter. I loved peanut butter. I loved anything with peanut. ⁓ yeah, it's we have a 12-year-old daughter, so we have to manage the the lunch plan. And it's ⁓ it can be tricky sometimes. So a lot of manufacturers are like nut free. You guys are the opposite. You guys are like all nuts all the time.
speaker-1: Well actually we are peanut free. Yeah. So that was we started that in twenty twelve and it took me about four years of research and implementing programs and testing before we felt confident putting that on our on our packaging. And so now you'll see on all of our bags it says made in a peanut free facility. And we have a very robust peanut control program. And I think since twenty sixteen we've ⁓ we've had that on our on our bags. Now, a lot of schools still won't let you to bring our products in because they contain nuts, but At least they don't contain peanuts. I know it's it's very funny when I meet people and they'll be like, ⁓ nature sports, you guys make the peanuts and I'm like, That is the only thing we don't make.
speaker-0: You're like, thanks anyway. Thanks anyway. So what's next for you guys? What's coming down the pike in well twenty twenty seven? I'm sure you're planning already for that fiscal year. What's what's coming up next?
speaker-1: one thing that we've noticed is that at a certain point I was like, you know what, Canada, I feel like we've tapped it out. We're in, like I said, the majority of the Canadian retailers. There's a handful of them that it would be nice if we were in like like Law Laws has several different types of ⁓ stores. So we're not in all of their types of stores. It would be nice if we had full distribution there. That would be nice, but there's a lot of other areas in Canadian retail that I realize we haven't we haven't touched. And we know that people eat and love our products. And so we gotta find ways of bringing them to those other channels that they shop in, like, you know, as an example, convenience stores, gas stations. ⁓ not everybody wants to eat unhealthy food when they go to the gas station or when they, you know, when they're on the road or whatever the case may be. And so we want to be that better for you snack in that in that space. And then there's more that we're going for in our international markets. ⁓ we have ⁓ a new product that I recently launched that's doing particularly well in in one channel and I'm hoping to bring that out into more in the ⁓ in the coming months. I can't talk about it too much. It's a little top secret. It is behind me though. So I'm just gonna
speaker-0: It's a little too blurry. I I would start guessing, but I was I would get us in trouble and you'd hang up on me. ⁓ last question for you. Favorite grocery shopping experience anywhere in the world? Or was
speaker-1: ⁓ it's Costco. It's always Costco. Doesn't matter. Whether it's my local Costco or it's the Costco in Japan, I'm always gonna be wowed by all the different things that they have, their willingness to try new things and experiment and their belief in the in the treasure hunt. You know, you really just don't find that anywhere else aside from from Costco. And it's it's it's always fun. Well, until you get the bill.
speaker-0: Which Costco where? Yeah, well, especially if in your cart you have a laptop and a TV and a car battery at the same time. I ⁓ I remember going to Costco in ⁓ in Maui. It was my first sort of, yeah, like I don't know what you call it. I know it's international is not quite the right word, but sort of my my first time visiting a Costco, not in my neighborhood. And ⁓ I was, yeah, I was shocked with how you would think it would be nearly identical. And it wasn't. Yes, there was some similarities in.
speaker-1: But I just came to get milk.
speaker-0: you know, format and layout of the store and some familiar brands, but it was different enough. And when I hear, especially on areas of like Better for You or Sustainability or the ESG play, like there, I feel like Costco is actually doing quite well, better than most retailers in those areas. And I get excited when I hear people say, Yep, we're working with Costco and we're taking their cues and Costco believes in us. What a great signal to a to a brand. So Mitch, I love that we got to have this conversation. It's so cool to see what you guys are doing. I'm sorry that I commented that you I think that you're a best guest secret. Clearly you're not a secret, but ⁓ I love seeing you guys growing across the country and beyond and excited for what's to come.
speaker-1: Thank you. Thank very much. I appreciate the opportunity to ⁓ to chat with you. And ⁓ I do have to add just one tiny thing, if I could throw it in there. That's just unbelievable. So I was I was recently in Japan. I was on a trade mission. The the I think the Quebec government helped sponsor us to ⁓ to go on this trade mission ⁓ to Japan and so went around, we checked out all the grocery stores and saw some just really interesting products and when I came home I saw them at T and T supermarket and I was like, This is amazing, like this was a good product. And then I went to Costco and they had the same thing. And I was like, How did they know? It's crazy to see how interconnected the world is and how we can all share food literally across the globe.
speaker-0: It's it's a way to experience cultures too, to eat what people are eating halfway around the world and to enjoy it in a way that ⁓ is maybe unfamiliar to us, but it's something exciting and new. So yeah, food is a a wonderful it's entertaining and hopefully a great way to make a living as well. Blood, sweat, and tears. Thanks for listening to this episode of Shelf Space. If you like what you hear, I would be eternally grateful for a five-star rating and a quick share on social.
speaker-1: It's it's a challenging way to make a living.
speaker-0: Your support means the world to me and our partners. TD, Faskin, REMA, Pacific Coast Distribution, Picnic Creative, and Benchmark 60. For bonus content and resources from our sponsors, go to shelfspacepodcast.com. I'm Corbin Hebert. I'm glad we're on this rocket ship together. I'll see you in the future.
