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00:00:02.720Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in again.
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00:00:06.240I am Kaylee Bateman and the managing director at She Can Code.
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00:00:12.800And today we're discussing From Prison to Possibility how tech can help women build new futures.
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00:00:17.199Technology is changing lives in more ways than we often realise.
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00:00:28.719Today I'm lucky enough to be joined by the wonderful Jay from She Matters to explore how confidence, skills, mentoring, and supportive communities can help women build new futures after prison.
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00:00:44.640We're going to talk a little bit about why employment is one of the biggest factors in reducing reoffending, the barriers women face when rebuilding their lives, and why the tech sector has a unique opportunity to open doors for people with talent, determination, and potential.
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00:00:45.600Welcome, Jay.
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00:00:47.439It's an absolute pleasure to have you on here.
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00:00:48.560Thank you for joining us.
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00:00:49.759Thank you for having me.
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00:00:50.960I really appreciate it.
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00:00:57.600Well, we'd love to hear a little bit about you, your work at She Matters to set the scene for our listeners, if that's okay.
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00:00:58.799Yeah, absolutely.
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00:01:00.320So my name's Jay.
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00:01:03.679I'm the Employment Network Development Manager.
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00:01:14.560We are an organization called Amago Day, which is a charity organisation supporting women in prison or anyone that's had any contact with the criminal justice system.
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00:01:21.439We've got several different projects, but the main one that we're going to be talking about today is the employment network.
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00:01:29.920So we are an initiative to support women that have had experience with the criminal justice system back into the real world of employment.
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00:01:34.799I kind of ended up here just to give a little bit of a backstory.
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00:01:39.439I have previous experience myself of being in prison.
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00:01:48.159And I while I was in prison, I was the first person to get work with the civil service on release and temporary licence.
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00:01:57.599I stayed there upon release and I had a lot of women contact me asking for help with getting back into the working world, helping with their confidence.
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00:02:03.200I reached out to our CEO of the organisation, and this initiative kind of grew from there.
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00:02:10.479And I'm pleased to say that since October 2025, we have got 26 women back into employment.
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00:02:12.960Wow, that's incredible.
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00:02:18.319So we're going to unpack some of what you do at She Matters and how that happened.
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00:02:24.080But you align very much as well with what we do and our mission at She Can Code.
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00:02:30.879So when our paths crossed, it was like we must come on here and tell us all about uh what happens at She Matters.
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00:02:38.319Um and I'd love to kick off with a little bit around um one of the main things that you talk about is confidence.
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00:02:47.759Um, can you tell us a bit about She Matters and why confidence is often the first thing that needs rebuilding before someone can even think about employment?
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00:02:58.960Yeah, so the Employment Network is obviously an employment programme sort of initiative supporting women who have been affected by the criminal justice system to move forward to sustainable employment.
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00:03:03.759For me, employment is so much more than simply getting somebody a job.
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00:03:20.639Um, a lot of the women we work with have us have have always experienced a lot of trauma, disadvantage, uh difficult relationships, it could be addiction, homelessness, obviously prison, and long periods away from the workplace, or sometimes people have never worked.
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00:03:26.479And those experiences can have a huge impact on how somebody actually sees themselves.
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00:03:39.840So sometimes before we can even talk about a CV or an interview, we have to help somebody believe that they have something to offer an employer, and confidence is often the biggest barrier, as well as a conviction.
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00:03:42.639They're the main two is having a conviction and confidence.
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00:03:52.639So someone might have the skills and ability to do a job, but they often don't believe in themselves, and they never will apply because they just don't think they're gonna get anywhere.
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00:04:01.360And that's why we spend time building the relationships, listening, and encouraging and helping the women recognise their strengths and also recognising their worth.
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00:04:05.840Um, for me, one of the most rewarding parts is seeing that change.
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00:04:14.719So when somebody goes from saying, Nobody's gonna employ me to say actually I can do this, that's when things really start to change.
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00:04:22.800But confidence is just they've been through so much that they've been so let down previously that they feel like nobody's gonna believe in them.
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00:04:24.959Yes, I can see that.
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00:04:35.439And um places like communities, it's over in our community, we get a lot of uh ladies who who have that feeling as well of um, I'm you know, I'm never gonna get employed.
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00:04:45.839I've even if they're um they haven't been in prison, there's that feeling of I might have taken a break from the workplace a really long period of time and trying to get somebody's confidence up.
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00:04:57.199Places like communities and networks are so good for that to find other people that are thinking similar things to you as well, and that it's not just you uh who's that's thinking that.
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00:05:00.959But your job must be so interesting when when somebody comes to you.
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00:05:02.160Also, how does that happen?
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00:05:08.639Does somebody come to you, or do are are people referred to you and then you have that initial chat about where they're at?
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00:05:14.079Yeah, so we have um partnerships with obviously the prisons and probation services.
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00:05:25.759So it may be that their probation officer will refer them to us, it may be that the prison contacts us and says we've got somebody, or sometimes women just come to us because they know about us and they just want the support.
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00:05:32.319But because of the other programs and the other projects within the organization, they know about us from them.
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00:05:36.160So they hear that we've got different different parts of the organization.
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00:05:48.160Um there is a referral process, but when you first have that conversation with somebody, if I could record that first conversation to the last conversation, the difference in people is just unbelievable.
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00:05:49.600Yeah, yeah.
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00:06:10.959And I suppose as well, just talking them through even the first steps of how to believe in yourself to get to that point where you know we're going to help you with interviews and employers that are open to you, uh, must be, yeah, it must you must have a very rewarding job that you really see it.
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00:06:19.120It really is, but it's down to them as an individual, you know, and yes, they do obviously come to me for help, which is wonderful, and I'll do anything I can to support.
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00:06:21.839But a lot of them go on constantly rejected.
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00:06:26.879But for me, it's about turning that rejection into redirection, and it works.
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00:06:31.279Given the right support and the right guidance and somebody believing in them, it really works.
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00:06:33.519Yes, yeah, I can imagine.
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00:06:36.079Um, and what about the technology industry?
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00:06:41.519So um technology is known for being very open.
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00:06:44.639The industry um claims it's very open.
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00:06:50.399We do have to do a lot of work around diversity and inclusion, which is uh why our community exists.
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00:06:54.720Um, but what do you think about technology and digital careers?
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00:07:01.120How could that be um such an important opportunity for women who are rebuilding their lives?
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00:07:14.079I think with regards to technology and digital careers, obviously it can provide some really exciting opportunities because the industry is constantly changing and there is so many different routes into it.
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00:07:22.240You don't necessarily have to follow a traditional career path or have spent years working in an office to develop sort of valuable digital skills.
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00:07:30.720There is a lot of opportunities out there to learn, retrain, and build that experience, but I don't think women realise that that opportunity is there.
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00:07:52.480So for women rebuilding their lives, flexibility can also be incredibly important, and digital roles I find can sometimes really offer that flexibility with hybrid working, remote working, which in that sense that actually can remove some of the barriers that women tend to face that that make traditional employment difficult.
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00:07:58.639Um, but I think there's another really important point where technology gives people an opportunity to start again.
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00:08:10.480You know, the whole world is technology-based these days, and and we often focus on someone's past, but digital careers can be much more focused on what you can learn and what you can contribute now.
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00:08:20.480Um and I think with the right training and support, someone who have may have been excluded from employment can develop them skills and genuinely be valuable to employers.
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00:08:26.000And also being in custody, women tend to do a lot of digital courses.
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00:08:32.159Um, you know, they have that ability to do a lot of courses, or it may be a degree, you know, there's so many opportunities.
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00:08:41.759But the world is evolving, AI is there, digital is there, and I think it's just a massive opportunity for women to get involved in, and it could really make a difference.
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00:08:43.200Yes, definitely.
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00:08:54.000And it's very much what tech companies um try and advocate for, you know, uh working at a tech company is flexible, like you said, hybrid working.
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00:09:02.240We have so many of our members who have come into tech because of those reasons, um, wanting flexibility, work-life balance.
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00:09:10.480Um, and so many of our members didn't realise until they joined the tech industry that you don't have to be technical to be in tech.
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00:09:19.759And that's why this podcast was started to share that message with as many people as possible, because everybody thinks, especially you mentioned AI.
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00:09:27.120I I only had a conversation yesterday with somebody who works in AI, and we were talking about how intimidating that sounds.
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00:09:31.120Um, and well, like, I like not going to go and work in AI.
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00:09:34.320And I said to her, you know, did you think you were gonna do that when you were younger?
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00:09:37.919And she was like, absolutely not, didn't know that was gonna be in my job title.
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00:09:41.279But she didn't have a traditional route into tech.
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00:10:02.000Um, she wasn't a traditional techie techie, and there are so many ways in, as long as you are open-minded as well, to think the tech industry is crying out for people with a range of skills, and uh, probably a lot of the ladies that you work with as well have got previous skills from other careers that they might have had in the past.
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00:10:06.799And how do you just translate that into a new story and a new beginning?
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00:10:25.679And a lot of companies will fill in the gaps as well, especially like our community, women in tech, a lot of our partners will fill in the gaps of the things that you are missing because they want to diversify their workforce, but a lot of people don't know that or even give it a try.
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00:10:35.279I think what I find a lot of women tend to think that tech is very male-dominant industry, and that's not the case, you know.
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00:10:37.840More women should be in tech.
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00:10:58.639There's opportunities there, and I think it would take away a lot of fear factor from especially with the hybrid and the remote working of people getting back into the real world, but also as well for employers, obviously, women that have been involved in the criminal justice system tend to have a lot more that they want to prove, not to anybody in particular, but for themselves.
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00:11:03.120So retention's really high, and they want to learn because they want to do well.
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00:11:04.799Yeah, yeah.
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00:11:17.039I couldn't agree more because that loyalty, as well, of I've been given an opportunity, I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna be a sponge, and if you're willing to teach me, I'm willing to stay.
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00:11:28.320And um, instead of sometimes a lot of companies they will take an opportunity on a graduate, and there's nothing wrong with that, but a lot of them will job hop after a couple of years.
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00:11:29.279Yeah, definitely.
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00:11:36.559Where you you are looking for somebody that is going to stay the long haul, and um, you know, hiring can be very expensive.
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00:11:50.480So, yeah, a really good point that um can be more loyal, and why not take a chance on somebody that is willing to just soak up everything that you're going to um offer to train them in definitely?
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00:11:58.799Um, so we've spoken about the the type of support that you uh offer as well, which she matters.
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00:12:10.480So, what kinds of support make the biggest difference, do you think, whether that's mentoring, networking, learning new digital skills, or just simply believing in someone, I suppose is a really good start.
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00:12:15.200Yeah, I mean for me, I think it's a combination of all of those things.
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00:12:25.840Um, you know, practical support is important, CVs, interview, preparation, digital skills, sort of understanding the job market and connecting women with employers.
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00:12:32.240But sometimes the most powerful, powerful thing is uh to give somebody's belief.
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00:12:39.200You know, a mentor or someone who simply says, I can see potential in you, can make such a huge difference.
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00:12:46.879Um, networking as well is an incredibly important because opportunities often come through people.
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00:12:53.519You know, if somebody has been out of employment for a long time, they may not have that professional network anymore.
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00:13:11.519And we can help create those connections, and most importantly, we don't just want to prepare women for employment, we want to prepare them for sustainable employment, um, you know, understanding what they want, what their strengths are, what barriers they may face, and what support will help them stay in work.
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00:13:18.480So I do think it is a combination of things, all in all, but the most important thing is just giving somebody that belief.
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00:13:20.080Yes, definitely.
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00:13:27.039And um, you're making me think of our mentoring program, um, which would be a brilliant place for some of your ladies.
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00:13:34.240We started the program because you're told anyway in the world of work, go find yourself a mentor.
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00:13:38.399And then you message a load of people on LinkedIn and nobody comes back to you.
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00:13:47.039And you think, oh, it's you, or nobody's interested, or you hear that people are meant to be doing that, but you can't find anybody to support you.
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00:13:59.759So we started the directory to put all of the people in there that wanted to be a mentor and give back, and that meant that when somebody applied, they would just say, Yes, I think I can help you.
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00:14:04.320There's somebody there, and that boosts your confidence as well because straight away.
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00:14:20.480You've been firing off messages on LinkedIn and you're like, Well, I got rejected by everybody, but there's a load of brilliant people in this directory that want to help you, and just by somebody saying, Yes, I'd love to chat with you for the next eight weeks, here's some guidance that we can talk through.
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00:14:22.320That is such a confidence boost.
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00:14:25.600But yeah, I have to know where to find the right people.
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00:14:29.759And something like a mentoring program is is a great place to start.
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00:14:39.200Yeah, guidance is such an is so valuable, just having somebody to be able to guide you and give you that little bit of insight or a bit of encouragement or the support.
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00:14:40.720It's all down to support.
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00:14:46.080Yes, yeah, and people that are willing to offer that support, definitely.
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00:14:53.679Um, so a lot of our listeners uh are hiring managers and leaders, and we have a lot of those in our community.
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00:15:01.600What would you like employers in the tech industry to understand about hiring someone who's rebuilding their life?
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00:15:08.960I think I'd like I'd basically just ask employers to look beyond someone's past and look at their potential.
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00:15:18.720You know, a criminal conviction is one part of someone's story, it shouldn't automatically define who that person is today or what they're capable of achieving.
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00:15:23.840And many of the women that we support have enormous resilience and strength.
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00:15:29.039They've been through a lot, you know, they've overcome things that most people will never experience.
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00:15:38.960And those experiences can develop qualities such as determination, adaptability, um, empathy, and the ability to deal with pressure.
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00:15:46.639So, of course, obviously, employers have to consider risk, safeguarding and suitability for a role, which we completely understand.
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00:15:54.799But there's to me, there's a big difference between appropriate risk assessment and automatically excluding someone because of their past.
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00:15:59.279You know, I would just encourage employers to have an open conversation.
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00:16:17.279If you're if you're willing to take somebody on with that's had involvement of the criminal justice system, they're still human, you know, have a conversation, ask them what happened, what's changed, what have you learned about yourself, and what can you bring to the organization and what can they do to support them?
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00:16:36.159Sometimes, most of the time, you'll find that the person sitting in front of you is very different from the person described on a piece of paper, and it is the past doesn't define people, you know, everybody has to start somewhere, and just because of a mistake that's once happened, it shouldn't determine their life.
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00:16:38.399Yes, I couldn't agree more.
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00:16:57.279And I I love the fact as well you listed the um the the qualities of of what comes out of that as well, because it's almost helping somebody to reframe their story, even if they haven't thought of it that way, but how to reframe their story of how they're now going to be an asset to an employer.
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00:16:58.879And a lot of people do that.
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00:17:11.680I I've been told many a times on this podcast from uh parents who took a break from the workforce, and then they said, the trick was I came back and I said it's not that I'm missing, I have been missing from work.
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00:17:22.319It was I was learning how to negotiate, and I could probably um uh negotiate in like a hostage environment now because I've been with a toddler for the last year.
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00:17:27.279So, like how to rebrain your absence can make such a difference.
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00:17:29.839Um, do you work with your ladies on that?
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00:17:43.359Like how to refer, I mean, you mentioned resilience and lots of um great qualities in there of what has come out of their experience and actually how you can now really be an asset to an employer that's open to that.
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00:17:44.559Yeah, definitely.
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00:17:59.519I mean, I think as well, one thing that I always say to employers is they're missing a trick because it's such a huge untapped talent pool of people or some organizations will automatically be like no to anybody that has a criminal conviction.
00:17:59.680 -->
00:18:05.519But how is someone meant to move forward with their life if all these barriers are constantly in place?
00:18:05.759 -->
00:18:19.039You know, give somebody a chance, they've got so much more to offer, but also they've got they've got a lot more people to answer to because somebody that's been involved in the criminal justice system isn't just managed by a manager, they still may have to report to probation.
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00:18:33.839Um, you know, they're still they're still on maybe some form of license conditions, um, but they just want to prove themselves and they just want that one person just to believe in them to give them a chance so that they can write their future down a better path.
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00:18:35.519Yes, you're right.
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00:18:45.039Actually, that is a good point because they do have more people to report to um than you know, you just hiring from your usual talent pool.
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00:18:46.880Um, that person does not.
00:18:46.960 -->
00:18:56.400Uh, and also just again might jump ship um after a couple of years anyway, um, which would be very expensive for you as a workforce as well.
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00:19:13.119Um, so if somebody is listening who wants to help, uh not necessarily by offering a job, hopefully we have some of our employers who are listening to this as well, um, but by sharing skills, mentoring, opening doors, what practical difference could they make?
00:19:13.759 -->
00:19:16.640So I think there's many different ways, obviously, people can help.
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00:19:23.440You could offer mentor someone, you could spend an hour helping somebody improve their CV or prepare for an interview.
00:19:23.680 -->
00:19:33.680Um, someone could run a digital skills session with somebody, you could introduce us to an employer or organization that might be willing to support the women into work.
00:19:34.000 -->
00:19:37.519Um, even opening one door can make an enormous difference.
00:19:37.680 -->
00:19:41.599I'd also encourage people to think about their professional networks as well.
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00:19:56.400You might know somebody who could have uh could provide work experience, somebody who is recruiting, um, somebody who can deliver training, or someone who could simply just give a woman an opportunity to demonstrate what she can do.
00:19:56.720 -->
00:20:00.160You don't always have to give somebody a job to make a difference.
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00:20:05.359Sometimes you just need to give them access to an opportunity they wouldn't have otherwise had.
00:20:05.519 -->
00:20:14.000So I think it's an array of things that could really help, and you know, especially with the mentoring, because that makes a huge difference to somebody.
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00:20:15.759Yes, definitely.
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00:20:26.960Um, and uh, we're definitely going to touch base, obviously, about getting some of your um own ladies in our community as well and how they can support each other um in in our community.
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00:20:31.920We align very much on a lot of our uh there's a lot of overlap on our missions.
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00:20:36.960So um yeah, we look forward to welcoming some of your ladies into our community as well.
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00:20:45.039Umriosity, your day job must be incredibly diverse to say the least.
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00:20:45.839Yeah.
00:20:46.079 -->
00:20:47.920What what does your day job look like?
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00:20:50.640It's very varied.
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00:21:01.279I could be at a probation group, I could be on a meetup with a particular engagee, helping them with their CV, um preparing them for an interview.
00:21:02.000 -->
00:21:15.839It could be going into the prison and supporting people in the prison, speaking to employers to sort of untackle the barriers that they may have, getting employers to believe in us and what we do.
00:21:16.000 -->
00:21:21.440One thing that I do find that a lot of employers like is they get the full wrap around support.
00:21:21.599 -->
00:21:25.920I wouldn't just place somebody in work and then be like, okay, you've got a job now, see you later.
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00:21:38.240You know, I'm there for the employer as well as obviously the women, because some women may still have um some struggle, some may be quite institutionalized, they've not been in the working world for a long time.
00:21:38.480 -->
00:21:41.759So we're there as a support for the employer as well.
00:21:41.920 -->
00:21:44.079So my day is very, very varied.
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00:21:46.240Some days it can be very challenging.
00:21:46.480 -->
00:21:56.559Um, you could have somebody on a really good path, and you know, they could be reminded of something and it just slips them back down again, and it's about picking them back up.
00:21:56.799 -->
00:21:59.279Um so yeah, it's very, very varied.
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00:22:02.240Yeah, that actually I hadn't even thought of that.
00:22:02.480 -->
00:22:15.599Where you think sometimes that you might be making good progress with somebody and then actually there's a bit of a slip and you think, oh, it does you know that reminded somebody of their past and then they might um their confidence might dip a little bit.
00:22:15.759 -->
00:22:39.839That must be incredibly challenging for you to think you flawed our way forward and then yeah, sometimes it's you know taking 10 steps forward and a hundred steps backwards, but it's just about just not giving up on them because they've they've got the ability, they've got you know they've got so much strength that they don't realise it, and sometimes it's just making them realise that they can get through it, they've been through a lot worse before.
00:22:40.079 -->
00:22:50.400Let's just keep moving forward, and it doesn't matter how long it takes, you know, it could be some people are work ready, some are nearly work ready, but there's others that are nowhere near work ready.
00:22:50.559 -->
00:22:52.400But it's not to say that they're not going to get there.
00:22:52.559 -->
00:22:56.000Yeah, we've just got to keep battling together and we will until we do get there.
00:22:56.240 -->
00:22:57.599Yes, yeah, I love that.
00:22:57.680 -->
00:23:23.680And reframing again what what their story is and and and how to look at that story with you know, finding that confidence and all of the the qualities that you said, uh, you know, that they hopefully have uh found in their own experience, but just to keep reframing that to them when they keep if they do have that moment where they're kind of looking backwards and thinking, you know, how am I going to be moving forward with this one?
00:23:23.839 -->
00:23:27.359Um, but yeah, keep keep um reframing that.
00:23:27.519 -->
00:23:37.359We so we have a lot of ladies uh in our community who they tell us that they look at job applications and if they don't tick all the boxes, they don't apply.
00:23:37.680 -->
00:23:43.039It drives us nuts because we've got loads of employers that would love to hear from them.
00:23:43.119 -->
00:23:53.359Um, but we know it's kind of a it's one of those general statements that the women in tech communities throw out there of like, all the women in tech are looking at the job advertisements and not applying.
00:23:53.440 -->
00:23:56.160We kind of like it's a known that they're not doing it.
00:23:56.319 -->
00:24:06.079So we started connecting our members who are looking for jobs with our employers that we know are looking for jobs, and we just started basically closing that gap.
00:24:06.240 -->
00:24:17.519Um, so those barriers are already there for women anyway, but you've got the added layer as well of the confidence challenges and and the ladies that are you know just left prison.
00:24:17.599 -->
00:24:20.319Like there's so many other barriers that have come with that.
00:24:20.640 -->
00:24:35.599I think as well, it's trying to make I think this is just in general, and you know, regardless of being to prison or having any form of experience with the criminal justice system, but people don't realise how valuable transferable skills are.
00:24:35.759 -->
00:24:38.400And I think that's you know, they're like, Well, I can't do any of that.
00:24:38.480 -->
00:24:40.799And it's like, well, you've done this and that ties in with that.
00:24:40.960 -->
00:24:48.160So it's just making them kind of realize and look at it a little bit differently to realise their potential, and they're like, Oh, yeah, I could do that because I've done this.
00:24:48.319 -->
00:24:52.559You know, it doesn't completely write them off because they've not ticked all the boxes, as you say.
00:24:52.799 -->
00:25:00.640Yeah, that's the job applications do not help with that because you've been in that mindset of yeah, I need to tick all of that or I'm not applying.
00:25:00.720 -->
00:25:11.519And it was something that we we heard it a lot from our members, and then when employers would say, you know, well, I've seen loads of people checking out our jobs, but why aren't they applying?
00:25:11.599 -->
00:25:23.680And once we started digging into that, it it is that job applications just don't help with people's confidence because you look and you think, Yeah, I don't tick all of that, so probably not very good.
00:25:24.480 -->
00:25:26.160No, definitely agree.
00:25:26.799 -->
00:25:29.759Um, so your work is incredibly challenging.
00:25:29.920 -->
00:25:36.079Um, by the way, you would be brilliant to start a business and uh run uh a business as an entrepreneur.
00:25:36.160 -->
00:25:39.839It's something we talk about a lot on here, not for the faint-hearted.
00:25:40.079 -->
00:25:47.680And um, somebody said to me the other day, starting your own business, you have to be comfortable uh with uncertainty.
00:25:47.839 -->
00:25:51.519So you would be brilliant for that if you ever wanted to change a career.
00:25:51.680 -->
00:26:00.160Um but what keeps you motivated when the work is really challenging and what gives you hope for the women that you support?
00:26:00.960 -->
00:26:04.960To be honest, it's the women keep me motivated.
00:26:05.119 -->
00:26:13.359Um, there are difficult days, and we're dealing with obviously complex circumstances, and sometimes progress isn't straightforward.
00:26:13.599 -->
00:26:18.000You could work incredibly hard with somebody and still face setbacks, as obviously we mentioned.
00:26:18.319 -->
00:26:31.200But then you see somebody get their first job after prison, you see somebody walk into an interview believing in themselves, you see someone receive that phone call saying you've got the job, and it's moments like that that make everything worthwhile.
00:26:31.359 -->
00:26:32.720It's really heartwarming.
00:26:32.799 -->
00:26:41.359And I think for me also, um, I also think of my own lived experience, it gives me a real understanding of why this work really matters.
00:26:41.599 -->
00:26:52.720Um, I know what it feels like to have people make assumptions about you because of your past, and I know how powerful it can be when somebody gives you an opportunity and believes you can do something different.
00:26:52.880 -->
00:26:54.480Um that's what gives me hope.
00:26:54.720 -->
00:26:59.200I generally believe that somebody's past doesn't have to determine their future.
00:26:59.440 -->
00:27:09.440And if we give women the right support, the right opportunities, and somebody willing to believe in them, then they completely can change the direction of their lives.
00:27:09.599 -->
00:27:13.279And I think that's ultimately what the employment network is about.
00:27:13.440 -->
00:27:45.119We are more than just a network, it's it's a pathway forward, you know, and the the women they keep me on my toes, they do keep me on my toes, but I love everything I do, and I'm so passionate about it that if I could help anybody just change their life and never go through go backwards or for the women that have been how can I word this, that have been in contact with the criminal justice system but haven't been to prison to make them realise that they don't want to get to that point of going to prison.
00:27:45.200 -->
00:27:52.640You know, there is more to life than that, so they keep me on my toes for sure, but it's it's definitely the women more than anything that keep me motivated.
00:27:52.799 -->
00:28:00.160But the lived experience plays a massive part because I wouldn't want anybody to have the same experiences that I went through.
00:28:00.480 -->
00:28:01.759Yes, I love that.
00:28:01.839 -->
00:28:04.799And it and really good advice as well.
00:28:04.960 -->
00:28:13.039And you like I said, you must just your job must be so challenging but so rewarding all at the same time.
00:28:13.200 -->
00:28:29.839Um, and we do look forward to welcoming your ladies into our community as well, and to any of our listeners who would love to support anybody at She Matters, please do take a look in there because we would absolutely love our members to get involved with your own ladies as well.
00:28:30.000 -->
00:28:33.680Um joining the mentoring program, training, etc.
00:28:34.000 -->
00:28:34.400Absolutely.
00:28:34.640 -->
00:28:36.799There's loads of opportunities in there.
00:28:37.039 -->
00:28:42.160Um, and uh yeah, I'm I'm so um pleased that you come on here, by the way, Joe.
00:28:42.240 -->
00:28:43.839But we we're already out of time.
00:28:43.920 -->
00:28:45.920The conversation's absolutely flown by.
00:28:46.079 -->
00:28:50.480Um, but thank you so much for coming on and sharing a little bit about what you do.
00:28:50.720 -->
00:28:54.480She matters, we look forward to supporting some of your own network.
00:28:54.640 -->
00:28:56.240And um, yeah, thank you so much.
00:28:56.319 -->
00:28:57.119It's been a pleasure.
00:28:57.359 -->
00:28:59.200I really appreciate the opportunity, thank you.
00:28:59.279 -->
00:29:08.799And I just hope that obviously listeners just take on board the conversation today and hopefully we can grow into something and make make women believe in themselves and move forward.
00:29:08.880 -->
00:29:10.400So thank you so much for having me.
00:29:10.720 -->
00:29:11.200Definitely.
00:29:11.519 -->
00:29:17.119Thank you, and for everybody listening as always, thank you so much for joining us, and we hope to see you again next time.
