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Hello and welcome to GLeads Collective Podcast.
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I'm Mary Gregory and I'm so glad you're here.
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This podcast is a space for honest conversations about what it really means to lead us all today and how we can all show up with more courage, care and clarity.
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You'll hear from inspiring women, powerful allies, and bold truth tellers who are changing the game not by playing tougher, but by leading smarter, softer, and stronger.
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Hello and welcome to Conversations Worth Revisiting.
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Of G Leads Collective Summer Series.
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Have you ever been told you need to be more confident?
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To speak up more, put yourself forward, believe in yourself?
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It's advice that many women hear throughout their careers.
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But after well over 50 conversations on this podcast, I've started to wonder whether we've been asking the wrong question.
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The more conversations I have, the more I believe that although confidence naturally ebbs and flows, it isn't the real issue.
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The question that keeps coming around for me is what if the real challenge lies in cultures that we create, the assumptions that we make, and the environments people are trying to succeed within.
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Welcome to Conversations Worth Revisiting.
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A special T-Leads Collective Summit Series where I'm going to be bringing you some of the most thought-provoking moments from past guests to explore one leadership question in a shorter, curated conversation.
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And my question today is why do brilliant women still feel they have to prove themselves?
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Today's episode brings together two conversations from season three that challenge my thinking about why so many brilliant women do feel that they have to prove themselves so much.
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We're first we're going to hear from Lauren Neal, chartered engineer, founder of Valued at Work, and someone who has spent almost two decades working in engineering.
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Lauren shares deeply personal experiences of the biases and exclusion that she's experienced firsthand.
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And more importantly, she challenges the assumption that women simply need fixing.
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Instead, she asks to look at the system around us and the role leaders play in creating workplaces where everyone has a chance to thrive.
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This first clip was released in Lauren's season three episode, reflecting on how her experience in engineering changed the way she thinks about confidence, culture, and belonging.
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I mean, when I look at it, I do see, I mean, one, it makes great content to talk about in stories.
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Um I honestly believe this happens a lot.
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Uh I didn't speak about this for a very long time because I was embarrassed.
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Um, you know, no one gets fired and you know is happy about it.
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And um now I look at it and I share this story with people because to show that it's not it's not necessarily them that's the problem.
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And I mean, even to this day, uh when I look back on it, I mean, I actually still speak to Steve, for example, that it the problem wasn't me there.
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The the problem was the environment I was in, the people I was around.
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And now I'm always clear with people, anyone that I mentor and coach, that you know, if if you're feeling like a square peg in a round hole, it's not a bad thing to move away and do try something else.
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Lauren's experience immediately challenges something that wet many women believe.
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And I know I've experienced holding this belief firsthand, both in terms of the women that I've worked with, but also for myself.
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When things aren't working, we frequently assume that it's because we need to be more confident.
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But perhaps we should also be asking the role that culture plays itself in this.
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And that thought keeps running throughout my conversation with Lauren.
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What do you think allows behavior like this, whether it's blatant or subtle, to continue without any consequences in the organizations that would say they value inclusion?
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I mean, for for me, it's I think it's because people don't speak up about it.
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Or what I should say is the right people don't speak up about it.
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And who are the right people?
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Yeah.
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So when, so for example, when I was in those positions, both of those stories, it doesn't really matter which one, me speaking up about it becomes annoying.
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It becomes like a buzzing sound in someone's ear and they just want to swap me away.
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Um, I've I've seen that.
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When it is the most senior man in the room that says something, people pay attention.
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And it's wrong, and I'm not at any point endorsing that that's how it should be, but that's just how it is today.
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That what I've seen.
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If you get a very senior person, and it helps when they're a man, because when it's a woman, you still get the eye rolls.
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And I and I've seen it, I've seen like a vice president woman speaking about it, and then people talk about her afterwards, and sometimes men, sometimes women as well.
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Oh, yeah, of course she's gonna talk about diversity and inclusion and playing the woman card.
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And and it's not that.
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Whereas when you get a senior man say something, like, actually, that's not right.
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Were you trying to say something?
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Sorry, were you trying to get in there?
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It makes the world of difference.
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So it's all about the fact it's to do with your gender, is what you're saying directly there, and that just that women have a much harder time.
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Until I don't know how long it's going to take, but until these cultures change in the workplace, that bias is there.
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And I I've seen it even graduates coming in, they've been there maybe three, four years, and I remember one in particular, and it it was a male graduate.
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He then started over talking me in a meeting, and I'm like, whoa! And I felt like saying, Hang on, junior.
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You wanted to pull rank on him.
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I and I I didn't, I sort of laughed about it, and then I said to him afterwards, I said, You might want to be more mindful of who's in the room and when you speak and when it's actually better to listen to other perspectives.
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Because I knew him, so I could speak to him.
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But I just thought for someone I even know to then just keep trying to argue with me in front of a group and then also trying to kind of show he's all that, you're thinking, wow, it it happens even very early in careers, people are just getting influenced.
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Yeah, and what I'm hearing is how deep-rooted it is, because it is about the culture, and the whole challenge of culture is when we're in it, we find it very hard to see it.
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We're not, it's like it's not conscious to us.
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Yeah.
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So that's why building that awareness of ourselves as leaders and our own biases, but also starting to build the awareness of what goes on around here and what are some of the subtle messages that keep getting passed around, and what are the things that we're noticing about what happens around here that's acceptable or not acceptable?
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Absolutely.
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I mean, I've I've seen in you know, it's probably like a year or two old now when companies started getting rid of their DEI departments and and so on, and there was a lot in the news all over LinkedIn about it.
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I was honestly in about two minds on that, because for me, diversity and inclusion is I mean, coming from an oil and gas background, safety is everyone's responsibility.
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For me, DENI is everybody, every single person.
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And it doesn't matter if you're junior or senior, you can make space for someone.
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And I'm an absolute firm believer in that.
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So when people are taking away an or a department that's focused purely on DENI, I'm kind of like it might be okay, but only under the assumption that the work is somewhere else.
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And for me, it's all around leadership.
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How are we developing these leaders in the company with the right skill sets?
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So it's not necessarily the responsibility of a DNI DEI department, it's responsibility of all the leaders, starting at the very top in terms of how they're showing up, how they understand themselves and their biases, and then how they're treating other people.
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Absolutely.
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And ultimately that's what creates the culture.
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Yeah, and and I've seen it, I've seen some great leaders, and people absolutely flock to follow them.
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And then I've seen ones who were maybe very good technically, promoted into a people leader role.
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And I think it's a lose-lose because the team aren't happy about it.
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The person in there used to be, you know, really getting really great feedback about how they perform technically, but they've never been taught how to lead people.
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And that I have I see all too often.
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The I think they called it the accidental leader.
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One of the things I particularly loved in Lauren's conversation was her emphasis on leadership.
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Confidence does not grow in isolation, it grows when leaders create cultures where everyone has the opportunity to contribute and where allyship becomes part of everyday leadership.
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So Lauren hugely reminds us how much confidence is shaped by the cultures we work within.
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My next guest adds an important dimension to that conversation.
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Akira O Pong has built a successful career in technology.
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Whilst also speaking openly about being neurodivergent, an introvert, and something that she calls a quiet leader.
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Rather than trying to become someone else, Akira has learnt to lead by embracing what makes her different.
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Let's hear now from Acura about her story.
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What shaped your early ambition and belief in what was possible for you?
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Yes, definitely.
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Um, my placement year.
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So part of my degree was to do a one-year placement year in industry.
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And I remember looking at companies that I wanted to apply for, and honestly, I was trying to be quite ambitious about it.
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So I looked at banks as well as automotive industry, even defense as well, because of that aspect of thinking about the army and things like that.
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But then I and I remember looking at c like companies such as GHCQ, um Secret Services, there there was a proliferal of different um companies that I looked at.
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But I remember when uh the opportunity came up with Royal Thorace and BMW because there was joint.
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I was thought, let me apply to this because I thought I I'm gonna step out of my comfort zone because I wouldn't be staying in London as well, where I was faced at the time.
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I was like, um having to again move out to another part of the UK and then like test how I'd work in a more kind of engineering logistics environment.
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Again, it was going to be male dominated and I had to prepare myself for that.
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But I found it as one of the best experiences I've ever had in my life.
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And why I say that, it wasn't just the people, it was just the overall environment.
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And I learned so much about engineering as well as um the technology aspects of it because I was in um an infrastructure role and where I was based.
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So when you go into the Rolls Rest Punt itself, because it was based in Chichester, so um the bottom area would be all logistics, so you see the base of the cars to when they go to the actual final finish stage, and then there was the mezzanine level, and then there was some of the corporate functions.
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But when you walked into that every day and you just see just the office and the environment, it it was just beautiful.
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I'm gonna it in all honesty, it was just every day going into that kind of workplace.
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Um, yeah, it it was just fantastic, and I highly recommend it.
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It sounds very inspiring for you.
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100% because when you're growing up as a child, you always envision what it'll be like to walk into your first time in an office or anything like that.
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And I think sometimes even as children, we shouldn't limit ourselves.
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We should think this is what I can do, and just have that level of belief in yourself.
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And even um, when I got the offer for Rolls Royce, I was so excited.
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And then later on I got an offer for Lloyd's bank in London, but I was like, no, I'll wholeheartedly take the um Rolls Royce one because I was just it's a different environment and it takes me out of my comfort zone.
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And I had, I think in life, all you can ever do is try, never be afraid to try a new experience.
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And so, yes, I um went ahead and moved down there and then I did my placement year there.
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I met so many great people and I got to go to some of the other offices, such as um the Mini Plant and BMW plant in Oxford.
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Um, I spoke with loads of um colleagues that were based in different parts of um the company as well, and also I was chosen um as one of the placement students to help out at um Goodwood Festival Speed and also at another event where we had to talk a lot about the different kinds of cars, like the different vehicles at the time.
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So we had to learn about the phantoms, the spheres and their everything, and it was just so enlightening because that's some people's day-to-day role, and it was kind of like he was put into sales role for the day, and it it was amazing.
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We one day had a whole heap of Ferrari cars come over.
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Um, yeah, there were so many different experiences that I can't even pinpoint one or the other.
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But I remember um at Festival of Speed, um, I was I can't remember where I was in that whole kind of environment, but I just remember Lewis Hamilton was driving for Honda at the time.
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So this was when he was first starting out and just seeing his car just like rear ahead really fast.
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And you knew that he was gonna be as successful as he is now because he just seemed amazing and you could tell he had that drive and he had that focus, he had his eyes on the prize.
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And I think that's again is quite inspiring because it's someone in a slightly different field to who what I am in, and yeah, they've got that drive and ambition, and it spires you as a person looking at that, and um from what you're sharing, what a positive experience it was, even though you noticed that you were one of few, that that you were a a woman of colour in a male-dominated environment, it was still an enormously positive experience for you.
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Was there ever a moment that you questioned whether you belonged in that space?
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Or were you at did you ever feel uncomfortable?
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Yes and no, I'd say, because um I was grateful for the mentors I had around me at the time.
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So even um there was one amazing guy called Les, he looked after a lot of the placement students and he was kind of like one of our confidence there.
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And um also my two managers were amazing as well.
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So my manag well, my direct manager was um a lady, and then her boss was a male, but they were both so supportive, and anything kind of I took to them, whether I had an initiative or an idea on something, they were willing to listen and they helped me to kind of drive it, like they pushed me.
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And even there was times where I kind of was kept challenging myself and I was just like just giving more work.
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And it kind of showed my level of ambition at the time as well.
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And they were constantly like push me into projects and new things.
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So even I remember I created um this cyber uh this um security awareness um leaflet for the whole of the company and had the anesthetics designed for a marketing company as well.
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So this was to give our staff um kind of cyber security awareness training.
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And that was really new to me because it's just that I I kind of came up with this idea and I suggested as well that um because of there was a few things that I recognized and I was like, you know what, this would be really good for new starters.
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And this actually helped me when um later on in kind of my future careers as well because when it comes to certain processes and procedures, because I learned it and executed it there, I could apply it in the future.
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And that was the the great piece of making the link.
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Like you can learn things when like from 10 years back, 20 years back, but you can still always apply it.
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And I think that is kind of the art of learning.
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What really struck me when I listened back to Acua's story was the difference that great leadership can make.
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Unlike Lauren's earlier experiences, Acua talks about mentors who saw her potential, encouraged her, and created opportunities for her to grow.
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It reminds us just how much influence leaders have over confidence and belonging.
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So being a role model is really important, and that's helped you, and you want to be a positive role model for others.
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And I think you absolutely are.
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But I also hear that you're you're wanting to influence and you you are human-centered in terms of wanting to influence and shape the culture as a person of expertise rather than um a people leader.
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Is that what you're saying?
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Yeah, 100%.
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Um, because you you need that something you need a bit of balance of both.
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And in any team, you you always need someone that's an uh subject matter expert, and then you need someone that's more people-centric for it to work because it's kind of like sometimes when you say in in a classroom or say to like a someone, this is a good cop, bad cop, you need both because they both offer different aspects and perspectives, and that's so important.
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Yes, and I hear you know, you're a reverse mentor, you're actively shaping the organization.
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What do you think leaders do not fully understand about inclusion in tech?
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I think if for instance, in an organization you're always getting the same individuals in, that for me is a problem because you need diverse perspectives and opinions.
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Even at board level, we always see it sometimes when we're just like, it's always the same kind of people get into board roles, etc.
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Let's change the dynamics, because how can you improve things if you always have things the same that that never would change anything?
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So having more diverse voices and perspective, because even I would say a board needs people different ages, different demographics, um different gender, different ethnicity, you need that because you're no one's ever gonna have the same shared experience.
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And so for me it's so important.
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Even I um been on a board for like two years and I recently stepped down from it just because of um personal reasons, but I learned so much in that short space of time because I've never been on a board, like I've been in committees elsewhere, but to be on a board it's that element where it's more strategic leadership and the governance around a lot of things.
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And there's so many perspectives you need to look at and it it's totally different.
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And for me, it's changed my perspective on how I want to be as like a leader in the future from an individual contributor point of view, because I always have said that I'd always love to be some kind of thought leader.
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Some people might say I am already, but I think it's so important because I'm a person that I feel like you need to have empathy because it so how do you understand individuals if you don't have that level of empathy or that emotional intelligence?
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Like even when um I I I always see myself even in in my workplace as a confident, like if something is going on with someone, like I would see some people that pass me by and you could uh sometimes I could feel or tell if someone's not their normal self.
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And I would try to say, Do you want to go for a coffee or do you want to have a chat reach out to them?
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Because I think in this life you have the ability to be that support network to someone else, and why not?
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So much goes on in the world.
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So many people are facing challenges that actually I don't think leaders in organization know about.
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And the fact is if you don't get to get to know your team on a one-to-one level or sometimes do well-being check-ins, how do you expect your team to perform at their best and be efficient for the organization?
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And that is part of that whole kind of culture as well, your leaders getting to know their people.
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Because if they don't, then yeah, that organization's not going to thrive or be as successful as it could be.
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Because you need to like for me, I think for a team to really work, you need to know how people tick.
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Like you need to know, okay, for instance, like let's say a team of four, we've got Annie, Mary, Joseph, Joshua, and it's kind of like, okay, what are their strengths, what are their weaknesses, not even weaknesses, developing points.
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That's what I call it.
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So for them to all work with one another, if but you don't know how they tick or what are their hobbies, you you cannot get a team working as well.
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And for me, that's so important.
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Acuer reminds us that leadership doesn't always look the way we expect it to.
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Some of the most influential leaders aren't the loudest voices in the room.
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They're often the people quietly creating the conditions for others to succeed.
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So listening back to these conversations over the summer, I'm struck by something.
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Lauren and Acure are both women leaders working in STEM.
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But they have very different stories, different careers, different personalities, and different experiences.
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Yet they both arrive at remarkably similar conclusions.
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Neither talks about becoming louder, neither talks about becoming something different to who they are in the first place in order to succeed.
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And instead, they remind us that great leadership isn't about fitting a mold.
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It's about creating workplaces where different perspectives are genuinely valued, where leaders are curious enough to challenge their own assumptions and where people can thrive because of what makes them different, not despite of it.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:48.640
My heartfelt thanks go to Lauren and to Acure for sharing their experiences with such honesty and generosity.
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And if you'd like to connect with them, please follow the links in the show notes.
00:22:54.799 --> 00:23:01.680
If today's episode has resonated with you, I'd really encourage you to go back and listen to both of their full conversations.
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:09.440
We've only been able to include a small part of each conversation today, and there's so much more wisdom waiting for you.
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You'll find links to both episodes in the show notes, and on the SheLeads Collective podcast, you'll find well over 50 conversations exploring leadership, gender equity, and the changing world of work.
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Next week I'll be back with another episode of Conversations Worth Revisiting, a SheLeads Collective Summer Series.
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.599
Until then, thank you so much for listening.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:38.319
Thank you so much for listening to the SheLeads Collective podcast.
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If this episode resonated with you, follow the show or share it with a friend and leave a quick review below.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:46.480
Or leave us a comment.
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Change happens through conversation, so let's keep this one going.
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Listen out for the next episode and join me as we keep lifting the lid on the stories that matter.
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Take care and keep leading with heart.
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Hello and welcome to GLeads Collective Podcast.
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I'm Mary Gregory and I'm so glad you're here.
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This podcast is a space for honest conversations about what it really means to lead us all today and how we can all show up with more courage, care and clarity.
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You'll hear from inspiring women, powerful allies, and bold truth tellers who are changing the game not by playing tougher, but by leading smarter, softer, and stronger.
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Hello and welcome to Conversations Worth Revisiting.
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Of G Leads Collective Summer Series.
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Have you ever been told you need to be more confident?
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To speak up more, put yourself forward, believe in yourself?
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It's advice that many women hear throughout their careers.
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But after well over 50 conversations on this podcast, I've started to wonder whether we've been asking the wrong question.
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The more conversations I have, the more I believe that although confidence naturally ebbs and flows, it isn't the real issue.
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The question that keeps coming around for me is what if the real challenge lies in cultures that we create, the assumptions that we make, and the environments people are trying to succeed within.
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Welcome to Conversations Worth Revisiting.
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A special T-Leads Collective Summit Series where I'm going to be bringing you some of the most thought-provoking moments from past guests to explore one leadership question in a shorter, curated conversation.
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And my question today is why do brilliant women still feel they have to prove themselves?
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Today's episode brings together two conversations from season three that challenge my thinking about why so many brilliant women do feel that they have to prove themselves so much.
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We're first we're going to hear from Lauren Neal, chartered engineer, founder of Valued at Work, and someone who has spent almost two decades working in engineering.
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Lauren shares deeply personal experiences of the biases and exclusion that she's experienced firsthand.
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And more importantly, she challenges the assumption that women simply need fixing.
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Instead, she asks to look at the system around us and the role leaders play in creating workplaces where everyone has a chance to thrive.
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This first clip was released in Lauren's season three episode, reflecting on how her experience in engineering changed the way she thinks about confidence, culture, and belonging.
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I mean, when I look at it, I do see, I mean, one, it makes great content to talk about in stories.
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Um I honestly believe this happens a lot.
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Uh I didn't speak about this for a very long time because I was embarrassed.
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Um, you know, no one gets fired and you know is happy about it.
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And um now I look at it and I share this story with people because to show that it's not it's not necessarily them that's the problem.
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And I mean, even to this day, uh when I look back on it, I mean, I actually still speak to Steve, for example, that it the problem wasn't me there.
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The the problem was the environment I was in, the people I was around.
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And now I'm always clear with people, anyone that I mentor and coach, that you know, if if you're feeling like a square peg in a round hole, it's not a bad thing to move away and do try something else.
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Lauren's experience immediately challenges something that wet many women believe.
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And I know I've experienced holding this belief firsthand, both in terms of the women that I've worked with, but also for myself.
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When things aren't working, we frequently assume that it's because we need to be more confident.
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But perhaps we should also be asking the role that culture plays itself in this.
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And that thought keeps running throughout my conversation with Lauren.
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What do you think allows behavior like this, whether it's blatant or subtle, to continue without any consequences in the organizations that would say they value inclusion?
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I mean, for for me, it's I think it's because people don't speak up about it.
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Or what I should say is the right people don't speak up about it.
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And who are the right people?
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Yeah.
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So when, so for example, when I was in those positions, both of those stories, it doesn't really matter which one, me speaking up about it becomes annoying.
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It becomes like a buzzing sound in someone's ear and they just want to swap me away.
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Um, I've I've seen that.
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When it is the most senior man in the room that says something, people pay attention.
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And it's wrong, and I'm not at any point endorsing that that's how it should be, but that's just how it is today.
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That what I've seen.
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If you get a very senior person, and it helps when they're a man, because when it's a woman, you still get the eye rolls.
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And I and I've seen it, I've seen like a vice president woman speaking about it, and then people talk about her afterwards, and sometimes men, sometimes women as well.
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Oh, yeah, of course she's gonna talk about diversity and inclusion and playing the woman card.
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And and it's not that.
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Whereas when you get a senior man say something, like, actually, that's not right.
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Were you trying to say something?
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Sorry, were you trying to get in there?
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It makes the world of difference.
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So it's all about the fact it's to do with your gender, is what you're saying directly there, and that just that women have a much harder time.
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Until I don't know how long it's going to take, but until these cultures change in the workplace, that bias is there.
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And I I've seen it even graduates coming in, they've been there maybe three, four years, and I remember one in particular, and it it was a male graduate.
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He then started over talking me in a meeting, and I'm like, whoa! And I felt like saying, Hang on, junior.
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You wanted to pull rank on him.
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I and I I didn't, I sort of laughed about it, and then I said to him afterwards, I said, You might want to be more mindful of who's in the room and when you speak and when it's actually better to listen to other perspectives.
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Because I knew him, so I could speak to him.
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But I just thought for someone I even know to then just keep trying to argue with me in front of a group and then also trying to kind of show he's all that, you're thinking, wow, it it happens even very early in careers, people are just getting influenced.
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Yeah, and what I'm hearing is how deep-rooted it is, because it is about the culture, and the whole challenge of culture is when we're in it, we find it very hard to see it.
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We're not, it's like it's not conscious to us.
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Yeah.
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So that's why building that awareness of ourselves as leaders and our own biases, but also starting to build the awareness of what goes on around here and what are some of the subtle messages that keep getting passed around, and what are the things that we're noticing about what happens around here that's acceptable or not acceptable?
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Absolutely.
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I mean, I've I've seen in you know, it's probably like a year or two old now when companies started getting rid of their DEI departments and and so on, and there was a lot in the news all over LinkedIn about it.
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I was honestly in about two minds on that, because for me, diversity and inclusion is I mean, coming from an oil and gas background, safety is everyone's responsibility.
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For me, DENI is everybody, every single person.
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And it doesn't matter if you're junior or senior, you can make space for someone.
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And I'm an absolute firm believer in that.
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So when people are taking away an or a department that's focused purely on DENI, I'm kind of like it might be okay, but only under the assumption that the work is somewhere else.
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And for me, it's all around leadership.
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How are we developing these leaders in the company with the right skill sets?
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So it's not necessarily the responsibility of a DNI DEI department, it's responsibility of all the leaders, starting at the very top in terms of how they're showing up, how they understand themselves and their biases, and then how they're treating other people.
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Absolutely.
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And ultimately that's what creates the culture.
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Yeah, and and I've seen it, I've seen some great leaders, and people absolutely flock to follow them.
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And then I've seen ones who were maybe very good technically, promoted into a people leader role.
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And I think it's a lose-lose because the team aren't happy about it.
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The person in there used to be, you know, really getting really great feedback about how they perform technically, but they've never been taught how to lead people.
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And that I have I see all too often.
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The I think they called it the accidental leader.
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One of the things I particularly loved in Lauren's conversation was her emphasis on leadership.
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Confidence does not grow in isolation, it grows when leaders create cultures where everyone has the opportunity to contribute and where allyship becomes part of everyday leadership.
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So Lauren hugely reminds us how much confidence is shaped by the cultures we work within.
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My next guest adds an important dimension to that conversation.
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Akira O Pong has built a successful career in technology.
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Whilst also speaking openly about being neurodivergent, an introvert, and something that she calls a quiet leader.
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Rather than trying to become someone else, Akira has learnt to lead by embracing what makes her different.
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Let's hear now from Acura about her story.
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What shaped your early ambition and belief in what was possible for you?
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Yes, definitely.
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Um, my placement year.
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So part of my degree was to do a one-year placement year in industry.
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And I remember looking at companies that I wanted to apply for, and honestly, I was trying to be quite ambitious about it.
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So I looked at banks as well as automotive industry, even defense as well, because of that aspect of thinking about the army and things like that.
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But then I and I remember looking at c like companies such as GHCQ, um Secret Services, there there was a proliferal of different um companies that I looked at.
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But I remember when uh the opportunity came up with Royal Thorace and BMW because there was joint.
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I was thought, let me apply to this because I thought I I'm gonna step out of my comfort zone because I wouldn't be staying in London as well, where I was faced at the time.
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I was like, um having to again move out to another part of the UK and then like test how I'd work in a more kind of engineering logistics environment.
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Again, it was going to be male dominated and I had to prepare myself for that.
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But I found it as one of the best experiences I've ever had in my life.
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And why I say that, it wasn't just the people, it was just the overall environment.
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And I learned so much about engineering as well as um the technology aspects of it because I was in um an infrastructure role and where I was based.
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So when you go into the Rolls Rest Punt itself, because it was based in Chichester, so um the bottom area would be all logistics, so you see the base of the cars to when they go to the actual final finish stage, and then there was the mezzanine level, and then there was some of the corporate functions.
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But when you walked into that every day and you just see just the office and the environment, it it was just beautiful.
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I'm gonna it in all honesty, it was just every day going into that kind of workplace.
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Um, yeah, it it was just fantastic, and I highly recommend it.
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It sounds very inspiring for you.
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100% because when you're growing up as a child, you always envision what it'll be like to walk into your first time in an office or anything like that.
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And I think sometimes even as children, we shouldn't limit ourselves.
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We should think this is what I can do, and just have that level of belief in yourself.
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And even um, when I got the offer for Rolls Royce, I was so excited.
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And then later on I got an offer for Lloyd's bank in London, but I was like, no, I'll wholeheartedly take the um Rolls Royce one because I was just it's a different environment and it takes me out of my comfort zone.
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And I had, I think in life, all you can ever do is try, never be afraid to try a new experience.
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And so, yes, I um went ahead and moved down there and then I did my placement year there.
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I met so many great people and I got to go to some of the other offices, such as um the Mini Plant and BMW plant in Oxford.
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Um, I spoke with loads of um colleagues that were based in different parts of um the company as well, and also I was chosen um as one of the placement students to help out at um Goodwood Festival Speed and also at another event where we had to talk a lot about the different kinds of cars, like the different vehicles at the time.
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So we had to learn about the phantoms, the spheres and their everything, and it was just so enlightening because that's some people's day-to-day role, and it was kind of like he was put into sales role for the day, and it it was amazing.
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We one day had a whole heap of Ferrari cars come over.
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Um, yeah, there were so many different experiences that I can't even pinpoint one or the other.
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But I remember um at Festival of Speed, um, I was I can't remember where I was in that whole kind of environment, but I just remember Lewis Hamilton was driving for Honda at the time.
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So this was when he was first starting out and just seeing his car just like rear ahead really fast.
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And you knew that he was gonna be as successful as he is now because he just seemed amazing and you could tell he had that drive and he had that focus, he had his eyes on the prize.
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And I think that's again is quite inspiring because it's someone in a slightly different field to who what I am in, and yeah, they've got that drive and ambition, and it spires you as a person looking at that, and um from what you're sharing, what a positive experience it was, even though you noticed that you were one of few, that that you were a a woman of colour in a male-dominated environment, it was still an enormously positive experience for you.
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Was there ever a moment that you questioned whether you belonged in that space?
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Or were you at did you ever feel uncomfortable?
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Yes and no, I'd say, because um I was grateful for the mentors I had around me at the time.
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So even um there was one amazing guy called Les, he looked after a lot of the placement students and he was kind of like one of our confidence there.
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And um also my two managers were amazing as well.
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So my manag well, my direct manager was um a lady, and then her boss was a male, but they were both so supportive, and anything kind of I took to them, whether I had an initiative or an idea on something, they were willing to listen and they helped me to kind of drive it, like they pushed me.
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And even there was times where I kind of was kept challenging myself and I was just like just giving more work.
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And it kind of showed my level of ambition at the time as well.
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And they were constantly like push me into projects and new things.
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So even I remember I created um this cyber uh this um security awareness um leaflet for the whole of the company and had the anesthetics designed for a marketing company as well.
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So this was to give our staff um kind of cyber security awareness training.
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:26.799
And that was really new to me because it's just that I I kind of came up with this idea and I suggested as well that um because of there was a few things that I recognized and I was like, you know what, this would be really good for new starters.
00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:40.399
And this actually helped me when um later on in kind of my future careers as well because when it comes to certain processes and procedures, because I learned it and executed it there, I could apply it in the future.
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:43.519
And that was the the great piece of making the link.
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Like you can learn things when like from 10 years back, 20 years back, but you can still always apply it.
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.759
And I think that is kind of the art of learning.
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What really struck me when I listened back to Acua's story was the difference that great leadership can make.
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:09.680
Unlike Lauren's earlier experiences, Acua talks about mentors who saw her potential, encouraged her, and created opportunities for her to grow.
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It reminds us just how much influence leaders have over confidence and belonging.
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:21.519
So being a role model is really important, and that's helped you, and you want to be a positive role model for others.
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And I think you absolutely are.
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:37.519
But I also hear that you're you're wanting to influence and you you are human-centered in terms of wanting to influence and shape the culture as a person of expertise rather than um a people leader.
00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:39.119
Is that what you're saying?
00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:40.640
Yeah, 100%.
00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.039
Um, because you you need that something you need a bit of balance of both.
00:17:45.119 --> 00:18:05.119
And in any team, you you always need someone that's an uh subject matter expert, and then you need someone that's more people-centric for it to work because it's kind of like sometimes when you say in in a classroom or say to like a someone, this is a good cop, bad cop, you need both because they both offer different aspects and perspectives, and that's so important.
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:11.519
Yes, and I hear you know, you're a reverse mentor, you're actively shaping the organization.
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:17.039
What do you think leaders do not fully understand about inclusion in tech?
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:31.200
I think if for instance, in an organization you're always getting the same individuals in, that for me is a problem because you need diverse perspectives and opinions.
00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:37.920
Even at board level, we always see it sometimes when we're just like, it's always the same kind of people get into board roles, etc.
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:45.759
Let's change the dynamics, because how can you improve things if you always have things the same that that never would change anything?
00:18:45.920 --> 00:19:01.119
So having more diverse voices and perspective, because even I would say a board needs people different ages, different demographics, um different gender, different ethnicity, you need that because you're no one's ever gonna have the same shared experience.
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:03.359
And so for me it's so important.
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:26.240
Even I um been on a board for like two years and I recently stepped down from it just because of um personal reasons, but I learned so much in that short space of time because I've never been on a board, like I've been in committees elsewhere, but to be on a board it's that element where it's more strategic leadership and the governance around a lot of things.
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:31.119
And there's so many perspectives you need to look at and it it's totally different.
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:45.039
And for me, it's changed my perspective on how I want to be as like a leader in the future from an individual contributor point of view, because I always have said that I'd always love to be some kind of thought leader.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:59.680
Some people might say I am already, but I think it's so important because I'm a person that I feel like you need to have empathy because it so how do you understand individuals if you don't have that level of empathy or that emotional intelligence?
00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:14.799
Like even when um I I I always see myself even in in my workplace as a confident, like if something is going on with someone, like I would see some people that pass me by and you could uh sometimes I could feel or tell if someone's not their normal self.
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:20.240
And I would try to say, Do you want to go for a coffee or do you want to have a chat reach out to them?
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:29.440
Because I think in this life you have the ability to be that support network to someone else, and why not?
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:30.880
So much goes on in the world.
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:36.079
So many people are facing challenges that actually I don't think leaders in organization know about.
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:47.759
And the fact is if you don't get to get to know your team on a one-to-one level or sometimes do well-being check-ins, how do you expect your team to perform at their best and be efficient for the organization?
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:54.079
And that is part of that whole kind of culture as well, your leaders getting to know their people.
00:20:54.240 --> 00:21:00.559
Because if they don't, then yeah, that organization's not going to thrive or be as successful as it could be.
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:05.839
Because you need to like for me, I think for a team to really work, you need to know how people tick.
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Like you need to know, okay, for instance, like let's say a team of four, we've got Annie, Mary, Joseph, Joshua, and it's kind of like, okay, what are their strengths, what are their weaknesses, not even weaknesses, developing points.
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That's what I call it.
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So for them to all work with one another, if but you don't know how they tick or what are their hobbies, you you cannot get a team working as well.
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And for me, that's so important.
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Acuer reminds us that leadership doesn't always look the way we expect it to.
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Some of the most influential leaders aren't the loudest voices in the room.
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They're often the people quietly creating the conditions for others to succeed.
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So listening back to these conversations over the summer, I'm struck by something.
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Lauren and Acure are both women leaders working in STEM.
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But they have very different stories, different careers, different personalities, and different experiences.
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Yet they both arrive at remarkably similar conclusions.
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Neither talks about becoming louder, neither talks about becoming something different to who they are in the first place in order to succeed.
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And instead, they remind us that great leadership isn't about fitting a mold.
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It's about creating workplaces where different perspectives are genuinely valued, where leaders are curious enough to challenge their own assumptions and where people can thrive because of what makes them different, not despite of it.
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My heartfelt thanks go to Lauren and to Acure for sharing their experiences with such honesty and generosity.
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And if you'd like to connect with them, please follow the links in the show notes.
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If today's episode has resonated with you, I'd really encourage you to go back and listen to both of their full conversations.
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We've only been able to include a small part of each conversation today, and there's so much more wisdom waiting for you.
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You'll find links to both episodes in the show notes, and on the SheLeads Collective podcast, you'll find well over 50 conversations exploring leadership, gender equity, and the changing world of work.
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Next week I'll be back with another episode of Conversations Worth Revisiting, a SheLeads Collective Summer Series.
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Until then, thank you so much for listening.
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Thank you so much for listening to the SheLeads Collective podcast.
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If this episode resonated with you, follow the show or share it with a friend and leave a quick review below.
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Or leave us a comment.
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Change happens through conversation, so let's keep this one going.
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Listen out for the next episode and join me as we keep lifting the lid on the stories that matter.
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Take care and keep leading with heart.
