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Welcome back to Selling on Giants, the e-commerce marketplace show.
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Today's going to be a little different.
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Instead of a traditional interview, we're going to do a live working session around something that's starting to impact every brand on Amazon right now.
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Most listings today are still built around keywords.
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The problem is Amazon isn't ranking products the same way it used to.
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There's a shift happening towards AI-driven discovery.
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And a lot of brands are feeling that without fully understanding things.
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So I've got John Tilley of Zong Guru here with me, and we're going to walk through how he's thinking about listings in this new environment, what's actually changing underneath the hood, and what brands should be doing differently if they want to stay competitive.
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The goal here is simple: less theory, more practical.
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If you're running a brand, you should walk away with a clearer way to think about your listings going forward.
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Let's jump in.
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Hey John, welcome to the show.
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I'm excited to have you be here.
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Thank you for taking the time.
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I know you did a little pre-work for this, and we're going to be discussing uh your new software rollout, which is the Helix and how it's impacting search.
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But more importantly, what's been changing in the landscape of Amazon listings and Amazon search?
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We hear tons of buzzwords around Rufus, Cosmos, even some people claiming A10, which I'm not even sure is really a thing.
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But I'd like to get to the root of it today.
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So, John, uh, real quick, do you mind doing a super short introduction?
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And then let's I have some questions for you, and we'll jump into a working session.
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Yeah, uh, well, always uh always good to jump on with you.
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I appreciate it.
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And um, yeah, I'm John.
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Uh, I'm over in uh Los Angeles and I'm the CEO and founder of Zonguru.
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Um, you know, we have a bunch of different tools you can use to really uh optimize and and manage your your Amazon business, uh, but our core focus has always been around uh Amazon's algorithm and reverse engineering.
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Uh, how do you can truly create content that maximizes your exposure and exposure and reach uh on Amazon?
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Um and you know, certainly uh it has had a seismic shift of late uh happen.
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And so, you know, we're truly uh engineered to help brands meet Amazon's AI moment that is currently happening with uh conversational search.
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Uh love how you put it to the moment, because it seems like it just like a switch flipped, and then it's what everybody's talking about.
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Before we jump into a working session and you kind of go over what you guys do and how we look at this, can you tell me what what's changing about like what about the traditional ways is not working anymore in terms of listing structure?
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Yeah, I mean, you know, I think the the most important concept to get across is like at a high level, you know, traditionally the way that Amazon was used as a platform was for intense searches and purchases, right?
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You knew what you wanted, you came on, you typed in a keyword, and you bought your product, right?
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Um, and Amazon's very good at that, and and it was optimizing content on your listing for keyword searches, right?
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And that game has fundamentally changed because the advent of platforms like and LLMs like ChatGBT, right?
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Where um, you know, they've raised their hand and they've said, hey, we're we're we've created this amazing conversational search agent where I can have a conversation with an agent and uh you know get answers to my research questions very quickly.
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Um and we all use Chat GBT or Claude or Perplexity, whatever that is, and and it's been fundamentally integrated into our day-to-day lives, right?
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And uh, you know, uh OpenAI, it's no secrets than ChatGBT that they raised their hand and said, hey, well, if people are searching for products, why don't we uh include links to to buying products on our platform and start to own that area of research and e-commerce purchasing, right?
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And so uh Amazon has, you know, through through has his hands been forced to a degree saying, hey, there's a new way of e-commerce search that's happening and conversational search.
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And we can either decide to give up that um you know, that market share to other platforms, or we can decide to own that, right?
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And they made the decision to own it, and so they launched Rufus, which is a conversational search platform that you can use and help uh find products, right?
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And and you can now use it in a in a keyword intent by a way of finding products, but you can also use it uh in a conversational way where you're researching and trying to find something that matches your your shopping criteria, right?
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And so Amazon has decided to own that area.
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They've created Rufus and the quality level of that has improved massively, which we'll talk about in a second.
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Um, so that's the one reason is they need to own their market share and they're all in on that.
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But the other side of it is there's over 270 million customers using Rufus today.
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They've projected 12 billion dollars in sales, right?
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Um, and the key stat there is like the you know customers that use Rufus, their propensity to convert is 60% higher than the traditional keyword search method, right?
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So people are having a conversation with Rufus, they're getting the answers to their questions that they have around buying a certain product, they're trusting the recommendations from Rufus and then they're converting at a higher um percentage and at actually at a higher card value as well because there's other recommendations that are coming in.
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So it's cool for Amazon, they're all in on this.
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Um now it's a question of whether uh you know brands uh are in on this as well and they can and they can capitalize on this new discoverability layer that is now available on Amazon.
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So, you know, um I this is our iShop today as I come on and I I will, you know, I don't even use typical keyword search anymore.
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I'll use Rufus because I might have specific questions that I want answered.
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Hey, I'm looking for a um, you know, a baby car seat that has a specific type of strap that I know is important for me that fits this kind of car or a narrow kit or whatever it is, whatever my criteria are, I don't even have to look at PDPs anymore and try and sift through the PDPs and try and find that information.
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I can just ask Rufus and it's gonna come back with answers and recommendations, and then I can click through and look, right?
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So it's a much more efficient, high-quality level search experience.
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Um, and uh, and you know, it's been adopted at a rapid pace.
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Now the trick is what is driving that, right?
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Um, and and what is driving that is a new algorithm called Cosmo.
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So Amazon had to move away from its archaic A9 algorithm that you know was basically looking for keywords in a listing, where it's mathematically where it's placed and what kind of conversion you're getting off of that, to use that as ranking factors, as part of the ranking factors, right?
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There's reviews and everything else that go in, performance uh indicators.
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But um in order to ensure that uh number one, the the Rufus-driven conversational search experience was at a level and a quality level of other LLMs, Amazon had to have a new algorithm put in place, which is Cosmo.
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Now, Cosmo is an intelligent algorithm that will use kind of indicators or signals from your content, from other factors, reviews, you know, performance factors, all that stuff, to then decide, hey, how should we map you to all the different keywords out there, right?
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There's a universe of keywords, right?
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And instead of like it's all semantically you use the content in your listing to map you to all the keywords because Amazon's gonna make more money if it matches you to the right keywords, right?
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So that's the one side.
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And then the other side is the Rufus QA side, which is you know, what are the types of questions and the types of uh you know use cases that uh that will allow Rufus to connect all the dots to recommend you uh, you know, two different types of questions that are being asked in Rufus or or directives, right?
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So if there's prompts or questions happening in Rufus, how is it intelligent enough to know, hey, this is what we need to recommend for that?
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And the quality level needs to be at a high level, and that's why Cosmo uh drives us.
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And Cosmo is intelligent enough to go, hey, I need to structurally look at your content and then connect all the dots, right?
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And if I have a product knowledge graph that will tell me, hey, you know, what is it for?
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Who when is it when should it be used?
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You know, what are the different use cases, blah, blah, blah.
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If it if it get if it's getting answers to all of that from your content, it knows how to recommend you, right?
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And that's what we call structured listing engineering, which is making sure that it's not just content for converting customers, it's actually a signaling graph that will tell Cosmo, hey, this is what my product should be mapped to for all these different questions, if that makes sense.
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Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
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You covered a lot there too.
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And just to kind of rehash, uh, your the adoption of Rufus and AI technologies for search is exponentially increasing.
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I read an article that Millennial and Gen Z is adopting it at a pretty fast rate.
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And you, what was it, 219 million searches on Rufus?
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Uh 370 million customers, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, it's it's insane.
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And it's true because if uh I'm searching for something very specific to my use case, I'm going to Rufus and I'm telling them, here's the parameters, here's what I'm looking for, and it's making those recommendations.
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And kind of what we're going to dive in today, what the a lot of sellers are missing that's behind the curve is they don't understand that Cosmos is taking like contextual signals of use cases and everything else, and they're applying it to these random searches that are happening.
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And it's only a matter of time before advertising is deeply integrated in this and everything else, which is pretty exciting.
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But on that note, I know that you you looked at actually one of our brands.
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We recently took over extra wide stocks and you did kind of a review.
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I'd love to kind of do a working session.
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So any of our listeners who are tuning in and are saying, boy, that's a lot of data science for me.
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I'm just trying to sell dog food.
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I would love to kind of dive in on like how this is applicable to current listings and anybody who's considering how they're going to optimize for the future, what that might look like.
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John, you ready to jump in?
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Yeah, I'm ready to jump in.
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I think I want to make one more comment, which is which is really cool for brands, right?
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It and you know, the the key thing to understand is the archaic A9 algorithm was like looking for like the more keywords you stuffed into that listing and the more ingredient focused you made that listing, and the more nonsensical you made your bullets and your titles, right?
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We all went through this era of keyword stuffing, you know, the better the algorithm got signals for and the more you rank for, right?
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But ultimately you had like this really crappy listing that didn't make as much sense, but it was really geared towards trying to signal the keywords, right?
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That those days are gone, and in fact, if you do that, you get dinged.
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But the reverse of that is not true, which is like now we can create listings that actually can breathe and can talk about the beautifulness of your product and why it's you know uniquely uh positioned to be a better product for the customers and connect with them emotionally and talk about the brand, right?
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So all the things that we should be doing on your Amazon listing, this heartbeat of your Amazon business.
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Now you have the the opportunity to talk about your brand in the best way and connect with customers and and convert them, right?
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Sell them on your product in a great way.
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So it's a really cool place actually for brands to be, and you can now transition your listings into um you know something that aligns with your brand, which is which is part of our process.
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So I just wanted to mention that because like people are like, oh no, there's this whole technical thing.
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Well, there's like there's a there's a bright side to it as well, which is like, okay, now now we can now we can actually be who we want to be on Amazon, which is great, right?
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So um more branding too.
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Uh get rid of those generics, and also too, like you don't want to index for everything under the sun, you want to index for what you actually sell for and the problems you solve.
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So this is gonna make it easier.
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And um, I can't wait to dive in to see some of the technology you built out to support that.
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Yeah, 100%.
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Uh, is it better for me to leave this here or move it to the other?
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Uh, if you can click that off, that's good.
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Hide it.
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Okay, I'll put it here so I can see you anyway.
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Um, cool, you know.
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So um, you know, you're gonna come onto Amazon, right?
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There's obviously different ways for you to uh search, right?
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Extra white socks, right?
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You type that in, uh, and you're gonna start to see your typical organic results.
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Now, obviously, I've clicked on this before, so you know, it's smart enough to start to surface things that I've behaviorally clicked on.
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So that's one way you can find products.
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The other way is obviously with Rufus, right?
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Um, and you know, so that everyone understands, you can go into Rufus and you can ask whatever questions you want.
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It's gonna, it's gonna give you some of these initial prompts.
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Now, these are pretty generic, but like it's like, hey, how can I help you?
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What socks are best for swollen feet, you know, men's versus, you know, etc.
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Right.
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So I can ask any questions I want here, um, and it's gonna come back with recommendations.
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So for example, I can go uh you know recommendations for socks uh for socks that help with wide feet, white feet and heavy set bodies.
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I don't know, you know, who knows?
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You know, I'm just making it up, but um, you know, it I've I've kind of shorthanded this, but you can you can obviously have a a decent conversation.
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But like if I'm looking for extra wide socks, what you know, what is driving my search criteria and shopping criteria?
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Is it hey, you know, I'm I'm heavy set and I need something that's more supportive, or you know, do I want things that are mid-calf or that really, you know, also support, you know, I don't know if these socks do that, but like support um circulation or whatever it is, right?
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So hey, I understand these, you know, I can, you know, it's coming back with some recommendations, right?
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At the moment, right?
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Interestingly, it's not even it's it's not uh actually even it comes down with with uh extra wide down the bottom, right?
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Now, I can get I can get into this and and we don't want to get sidetracked too much, but you know, I can start to have a conversation here and say, hey, you know, great, like what are some other things that I should be looking at when I'm looking for socks, right?
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And it it'll come back and give me some some further questions or things I need to look at.
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I can ask for recommendations, right?
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And it'll be interesting to see, like, hey, is it gonna recommend extra wide socks or or a different brand, right?
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And I've seen this time and time again where where brands that are that are well known and might come up organically in a keyword search um search, uh, when I'm actually you know getting down to the the point of saying, hey, Rufus, recommend to me what's the best one for a premium level extra wide stock.
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You know, it might not come back and actually recommend your specific brand, it will recommend a different product, right?
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Because it might not be getting the exact signals.
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And so it's really an interesting area to play with Rufus because there's the general recommendations, but if you think about people who are actively using Rufus, they might have some longer tail search criteria, right?
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They might or shopping criteria, right?
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So, like, you know, I really want a black, you know, uh organic cotton, etc.
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Like so some of those longer tail use cases, you know, Rufus is gonna come back and recommend.
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So you've got to make sure that, you know, for the universe that's out there, it's almost like a longer tail keyword.
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You have to have those recommendations in place as well, right?
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And that's the kind of stuff that we do um with with uh with Rufus, right?
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So I'm gonna show you how we do this, right?
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And so uh we can look at um and feel free to ask questions that we go.
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Well, but like no, I'm looking at this brand.
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It sounds like like you really need to understand your customer, who you serve and your product, right?
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Because if you're gonna be updating this to my point, you don't want to be everything to everyone, but people with diabetes, heavier set people, people with just big feet.
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Obviously, you want to make sure that you understand how they shop and the questions they might ask, which is how you're gonna index better, right?
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so I it's it's an important point, and maybe just one last piece of theory on on this is there's two this Cosmo is looking for two kind of categories uh for signaling, right?
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One is uh something that Amazon gave us, which is it's a product knowledge graph, it's actually like a technical graphical mapping that you will have within your listing, which in a simple way of explaining it's it's it's a whole bunch of uh questions that Cosmo needs answers to.
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What is the product for?
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Who's it for?
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What are the different use cases?
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Is it seasonal?
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You know, so all of those typical questions, it's intelligent enough to say, hey, give me the answers to this because then I'll know how to serve you, right?
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What are the best keywords that you should be recommended for?
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So Cosmo needs that mapping, and then the other side is the customer rufous style questions that that it needs to understand.
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Like, what are the different types of questions that your product should be recommended for?
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And so we do a lot of engineering also on the question side on two factors, which is like, well, there's a number of different factors, but one is like what are the common, most common questions that customers will be asking when they're researching this type of product?
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So research is important, right?
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Because you want to service for the the the common research questions.
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But the other side is what are the most common questions that people have around the questions for shopping criteria to make conversions, right?
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And it's really important to understand the difference between the two.
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There's research questions and then there's conversion questions.
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Like if I get the answers on these ones, I know I'm gonna get a higher conversion, right?
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So we reverse engineer and we look across the spectrum of like what are the the most important questions, um, and then and then make sure we answer that on two factors.
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And we we score listings based on that.
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So I'm gonna show you how we score that and then obviously how we optimize uh in a second.
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But you know, high level just looking at this listing.
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Um pretty interesting to make a comment on that.
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So, like what you really you're taking almost a funnel approach where it's like discovery happens here, intents here, and then these are kind of the lines of questions around it, which is a really interesting way to kind of discover how customers might initially discover and find in market versus somebody who is that customer and they're a little more dialed into exactly what they're looking for.
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That's right.
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Yeah, 100%.
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Um, so yeah, I mean, obviously this listing needs uh help, right?
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Um, I mean, it does pretty well right now, but you guys are brought in to to help this listing.
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I mean, one of the first things I'd say is like, you know, for Cosmo and obviously conversion, images are critical, not only what the images are, but what are the copy overlays that go on this, right?
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And the narrative that you're telling to help obviously mainly with conversion with with humans, but on the other side, AI also reads your images, right?
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So, you know, this this certainly needs help with like what is the actual overlay and the content that goes into that, right?
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:32.799
And we we help on that front, and then obviously on the the title, um, and then the bullets, right?
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:38.160
Uh, you know, there's a whole bunch of stuff here that is being used to signal the strength of the listing, right?
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.680
So uh it has EBC content, fine, but it's gonna need some help.
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:45.680
So let's look at what this listing looks like, and so just uh chime in.
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:47.119
So that's a really interesting point.
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:54.240
So Rufus slash Cosmos, they're actually so like those images that had no words, they were just lifestyle shots.
00:19:54.400 --> 00:20:01.359
It pays to put some text, the text overlay over that because it's going to get indexed one way or another.
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.039
That's that's true, John.
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:04.400
That's true, yeah.
00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:12.880
So, you know, you can drop any image into you know, it's no secret that that that uh Rufus is driven by you know LLMs, right?
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:16.079
They have Amazon Nivo, but they use anthropic as well, you know.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:17.920
So it's similar to other LLMs, right?
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:28.000
If you take you you can't see the black box of what um you know Cosmo is, but if you take you know any image and drop it into Chat GBT and say, hey, what does this image tell you?
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.000
It's gonna come back and tell you a story, right?
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:34.319
And that's due to the content of the image, but the metadata behind it, right?
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:39.200
And it's the same way with so the alt tags and everything else that you're adding in Amazon matter as well, right?
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:42.000
Um and that that space will get progressively better.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:45.680
Um, you know, Amazon needs to take a couple steps there, but yeah, it does read your images.
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.400
So um this is Helix, right?
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.480
You can jump in, uh, we'll we'll give you a link.
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:56.240
You can sign up and you know, it'll explain to you exactly how to go about transforming a listing.
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.319
So there's really three steps, right?
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.559
There's uh create your brand, right?
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:02.559
Add your products, transform your listing.
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:19.519
Now, I want to talk about this for a second because we've taken the approach of saying, hey, if you're gonna if if there's an uh a need right now to transform your listing to make sure that you are now discoverable across keyword search and conversational search, right?
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:33.200
And get maximizing your discoverability, if we're gonna redo the content because it needs to be done, we might as well take the time right now to improve those other areas that I talked about, which is like, you know, let's start with your brand.
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:40.079
Like what's your brand strategy, what's your brand um, you know, voice, uh, what's your brand style, right?
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:41.359
Who are you as a brand?
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:42.079
What's your mission?
00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:46.559
What's your, you know, what what's your what's your values of what you bring to the space, right?
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:59.440
And so we spent some time making sure that we have in this agency system, we have agents that will go and research online, discover your brand, reflect back to you what the brand is, and do all that research.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.880
And and and then give you an opportunity to input into that, right?
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:09.359
Because it's trying to learn exactly if I'm going to write your content, it needs to come from you know what is your brand about, right?
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:14.319
So we do a lot of learning on that side, and then we we we do a lot of learning on the product side.
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:22.400
So when you do the product side, we do deep research on your Amazon niche, but like at the end of the day, it's a positioning exercise, right?
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:36.160
And so as marketers, as brand owners or as agencies, we we understand the idea of positioning, which is like, okay, on Amazon, you know, we need to position your unique selling proposition around what do customers want.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:37.839
So what are they saying reviews?
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:39.759
What do customers truly want in extra wide socks?
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.359
Not what we think, what do they want?
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.160
Yeah, what are your competitors all talking about?
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.720
And how what's what's our strengths as a as a product and as a brand?
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:50.720
And how can we uniquely position that, right?
00:22:50.799 --> 00:23:09.759
So that's the the idea of the product side, which is like how do we uniquely position your your brand, but also talk about all the product attributes and the the disclaimers and the um the credentials or whatever it is around this product, how do we talk about that in the right way that matters to customers, right?
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:18.240
So we we do a deep exercise on that, and then we finally transform the listings for obviously content that sells the customer, right?
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.319
Um on the images and the content side, but is also mapped for for the AI readability.
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:38.319
So that's like in a nutshell, the process that you go through here, and we make sure that we we allow you to go along with that process and input into that process because you know our agents are going to take the best shot at this, but you guys are the subject matter experts, brand owners or agencies.
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:41.759
So get get the opportunity for you to give that input along the way, right?
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:55.279
Yeah, and John, what I'm hearing, I love is like how much how important branding is now for the brands that are competing on Amazon or in marketplaces in general, and even from like the super basic level, it's messaging and positioning.
00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:03.759
And you need to understand the brand if you're gonna get the correct messaging, and then obviously the positioning and the unique selling proposition can all fold into that.
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:12.400
So I really think it's smart how you guys have designed the system to put the brand first, dive deeper into products, and then actually optimize these listings.
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:16.400
So I'm excited to see what you guys came up with with uh extra wide sock.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:24.160
Yeah, um, uh, you know, may maybe not the maybe maybe not the most uh flamboyant brand out there, but you know, it's a brand.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:28.880
Um and you know, so so I've I've done this step, right?
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:32.400
Because um, for sake of time, you know, just jumping and do it.
00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:35.039
But this whole process can take minutes, right?
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:37.759
So you've got to go in and and and go through the process.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:59.200
But at the end of the day, um, you know, uh as you as it creates this content, right, you can you can kind of you'll get um you'll get a um kind of a guide that the an agents on the right hand side that might come back with specific answers that it's confident on, but where it's not confident, it might stop and say, hey, can you verify this information?
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.240
So for the sake of time, I just clicked through and verified everything.
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:06.480
But at the end of the day, right, you you have your brand story, right?
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:14.240
Where you know, founded in the mid-1990s by Karen and Bruce, after recognizing a significant gap in the markets, you know, it talks about the brand origin.
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:19.599
This is this is all pulling from content, you know, third-party content across the web, right?
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:22.319
Vision statement to deliver unparalleled comfort and joy.
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:23.359
You know, is that correct?
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.359
Is this the vision vision statement that they have?
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:27.839
Audience and position, target audience, right?
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:28.400
Who is it?
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:32.480
People with wider feet, ankles, and calves who struggle to find socks that fit, right?
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:34.640
Um, uh without constriction, right?
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:35.359
That kind of stuff.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:38.640
Unique value proposition, family-owned, American-made brand.
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:40.640
American is obviously important here, right?
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:41.440
Very profound.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:46.480
Uh built around with and medical fit, three specialized sub brands, right?
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:49.680
So it comes back with all of this and says this is what our uniqueness is.
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:51.759
Like, you know, how do we position ourselves in the market?
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:58.160
Is it niche medical, comfort specialist, American-made, mid-market, inclusive fits, you know, ad market positions?
00:25:58.240 --> 00:25:58.960
You can add more, right?
00:25:59.039 --> 00:25:59.519
Or delete.
00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:07.119
Voice and messaging, friendly, playful, conversational with a genuine, empathetic core, uses rhetorical questions and humor to connect.
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:10.720
Feeling trapped by tight socks, had to cut the tops just to fit, right?
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.519
So, like, you know, like this is obviously his brand, right?
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:16.319
Messaging preference, lead with the customer's pain point, right?
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:22.400
Topics to avoid, stating in specific founded year, uh, all materials, USA source, right?
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:28.640
So it kind of comes back with things that you might want to avoid and then proof, like submission and values, achievements, and social proof.
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:34.000
You know, it had questions around this, like, hey, we found 5,265 Amazon reviews with a five-star rating.
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:34.720
Is that true, right?
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:35.920
So, whatever it is, right?
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:39.680
It came back and you can you can delete these or you know, you can accept them.
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:42.000
For the purpose of this, I don't know the brand, I just accepted it, right?
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:47.039
So it's just uh for for our listeners, I gave John no information.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:51.359
We met the week before just to kind of prep for this inner uh this workshop together.
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:53.839
And he asked, Do you have a brand we can run this on?
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:54.720
It would be fun.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:57.839
And I just said, extra wide stocks, they're new to us.
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.559
And I just shared, I didn't even share the website link.
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:02.480
I was just like, here's the top seller.
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.519
And today we're seeing what the software actually came up with.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:11.440
So as I'm listening in and somebody who's working with Karen and Bruce, uh, a lot of this lines up.
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:12.799
I mean, a lot of it.
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:25.200
So it's really impressive that John, your software was able to kind of scour the internet, pull a lot of these in, but also get to the intricacies of the value proposition, the social proof, messaging.
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.480
So, from the outsider looking in, this is pretty impressive.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:30.960
How long did it take to generate this page?
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.920
Is this like three days or no, no, two minutes?
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:35.200
Yeah, it'll do two minutes.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:36.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:37.359
That is impressive.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:37.759
Wow.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:39.839
It'll do it'll do it in under two minutes.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:48.640
Um, and you know, you can you can you can also choose to like, hey, go ahead and pull from my website or you enter a URL and start there.
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:55.039
But you know, you can also skip that if you had like a brand strategy document and you wanted to upload it and teach it that way, you can do it as well, right?
00:27:55.279 --> 00:28:02.720
But but to your point, like it's it's pretty cool to see this reflection back, and there'll be some things that maybe brand owners or agencies haven't thought about yet.
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.920
So it's a kind of it's a good reflection from the forest from the trees, right?
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.039
Like, oh, what is it?
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:15.440
You know, we've had we've had brands come back to us and say, yo, this is you know, my website is not doing a good job of telling us what our brand is about, right?
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.279
So I'm gonna go and fix that first, right?
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:20.400
So um it's kind of interesting, and you can export, right?
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:28.720
So there's value in this, obviously for Amazon, but you can literally have this export of this this brand strategy document that you can use on on other platforms, right?
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:36.720
So once you've done that, like now you've you we've ultimately kind of factored in like some kind of knowledge around the brand, right?
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:41.519
And as much information as you add to that, the more intelligent uh the agent is, right?
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:43.599
And then we would go into the product side.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:48.960
So uh, you know, I I I did one of the products because I did a transformation, but I want to show you kind of what it looks like, right?
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:53.839
So um I just took the the extra wide comfort socks here, right?
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.720
Um, you know, it'll importantly, it comes back with a readiness score, right?
00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:07.759
So if I click on this, this is showing you on the current listing how well is this brand actually optimized for um for Cosmo and Rufus, right?
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:09.680
On the mapping side, which I talked about, right?
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:16.319
This left side, and then on the Rufus QA side, it's got a score of 61 out of 100, which to be honest is not actually that bad, right?
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:22.000
Typically anything over 70, 75% is starting to get into a decent range, right?
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:32.960
But there is some you know mapping that's already in place, but there's significant gaps, like it's showing you here, like uh used for, like how do you use it compared to alternatives?
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.880
Uh, you know, develop skill used in, used on, used with.
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:42.079
This is the one that's usually missing, the used with complementary, which is like that's a coby behavior, right?
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:52.880
Saying, like, hey, if I'm buying thrombosis leggings, leggings for thrombosis, if I'm a customer buying that, I might also want to buy extra wide great socks, right?
00:29:53.039 --> 00:30:02.079
And so if you're not signaling to Cosmo the the coby coefficients and how those products can go for, it's not gonna recommend you in these other situations.
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:05.839
And you want to be recommended when people might not be thinking about extra wide socks.
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:07.680
I'm looking for these type of pants.
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.680
Hey, Rufus will come back and say, Hey, now that you find the pants, what about socks?
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:18.480
You know, and so if you can get recommended like that, you're just gonna increase your your revenue and selling, right?
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:23.279
So it's saying you're there's areas to improve here, and then on the Rufus QA, there's things missing.
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:25.440
What shoe size is for small men?
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:27.599
What is the actual foot width measurement?
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:28.960
Will they shrink after washing?
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:30.400
Are they cushioned for athletic use?
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:31.680
Do they have arch support?
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:37.119
You know, these are all common questions people have that um that's an interesting one.
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.200
Like if I'm buying these socks, like you know, is it gonna support my arch, right?
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.279
Do these socks have that built in or not?
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:45.839
Like, and if it doesn't, is that part of my shopping criterion?
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:47.279
I'm gonna buy another sock, right?
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:50.079
So it's kind of interesting to see some of the this is just a high level.
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:52.640
It's not all the questions, it's just giving you a snapshot.
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:54.000
Um but it's giving you a lot of.
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:56.640
I do like the Cosmo and the QA too.
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:02.319
Something we always do on our side, which is a little more manual, scrape reviews, look at competitor QA's.
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:09.759
It's interesting to get the Rufus perspective, and I'm sure it's based on uh the algorithm and how you guys are connected to the back end.
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:10.960
So that's pretty interesting.
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:11.680
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:13.920
So we're using primary data to get at that as well.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:21.519
Um, so it's gonna come back and say, um, hey, what's your main main niche, which is basically your main buyer keyword, right?
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:25.279
So uh extra wide stocks for men, you can change it, of course, if you want.
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.079
Um, you know, you can you can um change it.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:30.000
It's got your top competitors.
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:32.559
Uh, you know, I just selected these, but you can change them.
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:41.839
So, like, you know, if we all know on Amazon, if we can help seed this with the most relevant competitors, it's gonna do a better job of of understanding your niche.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:46.559
Um, and then um you know, now we get into key features and benefits.
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:49.279
So this is the important stuff, right?
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:53.119
That is really critical to uniquely positioning your brand.
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:56.640
But it's a summary of like what this is and what matters to customers.
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:01.680
So extra wide uh fit up to you know 60 width, uh whatever that means, right?
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:10.480
Designed specifically for wide feet, fits overcast and Uno boots, superior stretch, allows the socks to go on easily, soft ring spun, cotton construction.
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:17.359
Uh, I clicked through some of these, but you know, these might be met if I made in the USA, unisex, medium cushioning, medium weight, right?
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.160
So there's a bunch of key features and benefits.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:21.920
Now there's differentiators, right?
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.079
And it's it knows some of these, right?
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:28.640
But actually, it's saying here, hey, can you confirm these are the widest quarter socks available on the market?
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:29.759
Interesting.
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:36.079
Um, and and I can say, sure, you know, I can confirm that, or I can request a change, right?
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:37.039
So I can confirm.
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:42.720
Then it's gonna come back and say, Hey, uh, you know, your listing mentions four size available.
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.759
What are the exact size names and corresponding shoe ranges?
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:51.839
And actually, it's gonna give you its best answer, and you if you hit tab, it'll actually put that in, right?
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:56.640
So what's cool about that is like it it'll have its best answer, but it's not quite sure.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:58.400
So you can select the answer or not, right?
00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:59.920
So we'll just do continue for now, right?
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:09.599
So this is the process of how you go through um and you verify um, you know, questions, sizes, and then it gets into certifications, right?
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:29.359
Um, you know, so it's gonna ask you like, hey, are these socks O E KO Tech standard 100 certified yes, no, you know, whatever these are, but these are important certifications for the things and sometimes it's gonna lean a lot more on like some of the certifications that could be in place.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:33.839
Yeah, and it's important to you, you know, as a subject matter expert, you might be like, hey, like we don't worry about this.
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:35.839
So we'll just we'll just get remove it, right?
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:41.519
See, not sure about SOX, but I could see supplement brands being GMP manufactured, for example.
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:44.880
That would be something that yeah, uh you probably want to put on your listings.
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:46.400
Um, so it's pretty interesting.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.599
It's looking at uh that aspect, and I see compliance too.
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:55.759
So that's uh yeah, so compliance disclaimers, like you know, those are important, and then do not mentions, which we all know is so critical, right?
00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:56.799
Like, especially like this.
00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:02.240
If you're gonna say anti-mike anti-bacterial socks, you might get nailed, right?
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:06.559
So, you know, and if I start saying, hey, it's gonna be medical grade, right?
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.159
You might get flagged on Amazon and and your listing might not go live, right?
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:16.480
So it's kind of come back with like, hey, some of the do not mentions, and you can click yes, verify, or remove, or add your own ones, right?
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:26.079
So if you know specific things will help that shouldn't be mentioned, put a chair because then the system will know uh and and then obviously avoid that in the content writing, right?
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:28.559
Make sure and then it does its own first pass, John.
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.440
So like it, like we have our own prohibited keyword list.
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:36.960
I'll take it, it's pretty much baked in, so it'll flag it if it's potential and we'll just verify it or add to it.
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:37.440
Very good.
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:44.960
Yeah, just looking at the niche and it understands like um you know at first pass what are the main things that you shouldn't mention, but you can add to that as well.
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.760
Beautiful, and then you go seven.
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:49.360
That's a huge improvement.
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.719
Yeah, so you know, this is a transformation I did now.
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:56.400
Um, I want to I want to show you.
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:58.400
Uh maybe we can just take a second on this one.
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:00.639
Let's see if I can just click through this real quick.
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:01.119
Hold on.
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:02.800
Uh, we're just gonna accept these, right?
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:03.679
Let me just do this.
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:04.400
Let's do it.
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:05.920
It's an example anyway.
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:06.639
Yeah.
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:08.559
Given you made this positioning, okay.
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:16.559
So now what's cool about that, which I don't know if you saw that, but like based on the answer I gave before, it rethinks and it might say, Oh, because now you've verified it as this.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:18.480
Let me ask you some other questions, right?
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.519
So it's a it's kind of a you know, it's a brain, right?
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:25.599
It's thinking, and based on your answer, it might have some other things that it wants to verify, right?
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:28.719
So uh now once you're done with this, let's see if we're done.
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:29.599
It might have one more.
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:30.480
Let's see.
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:34.320
Um let's say we do not mention diabetic, whatever.
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:34.719
Okay.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:39.039
Um so now you can run a transformation.
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:47.760
So I just I'll run it on this white one, but what's cool when when you run the transformation, this is the this might take like five to ten minutes to really do this, right?
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:54.159
Because we're got we this brain, you can start to see it's it's it's starting to think, right?
00:35:54.239 --> 00:36:06.960
And it's thinking about your brand, it's thinking about the the niche, the answers we're getting around the product attributes, and now it's strategically writing your content to make sure that you're positioned uniquely, to make sure you connect with customers.
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:11.760
And what's cool, you can do this for the first time, and you can actually follow along and just kind of see how it's thinking, right?
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:18.559
So, you know, I noticed the listing is doing exactly what it should for a medical focused product, it nails target audience, problem solving, etc.
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:23.360
Um, you know, um, so it's saying, hey, we we noticed that, right?
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:25.119
But it now it's saying, hey, this is interesting.
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:34.559
The weakest dimensions are skills development, time, season, huge season, location, none of which are actually relevant to how someone with them for demo or a class buys socks.
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:39.440
The listing isn't failing to communicate those things, those dimensions just don't matter for this product category and audience.
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:45.039
So you know, so you can see it's in the research phase right now, but it's finding these like points, right?
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:46.400
And it's kind of highlighting them.
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:54.239
Like I'm seeing a potential mismatch between the brand, what the brand wants to emphasize, American-made, etc., and what the listing is optimizing for.
00:36:54.480 --> 00:37:03.440
The UVP, you know, or USP leans heavily into the only family-owned American-made story, but that narrative isn't showing up strongly in the current listing copy.
00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:05.920
It's mentioned once in the bullet, not woven into the positioning.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.280
So I want to change that, right?
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:11.119
So it's finding all these things, and then it's going to start doing the strategy and crafting, etc.
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:19.840
So it's really cool as like the agency or the brand to follow along first and say, hey, like what are the gaps and like how should we strategically change this content, right?
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:23.199
So that's what it does as it goes through and does this process.
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:26.800
And then obviously you get to the transformation, which is this, right?
00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:29.920
Um, now we're solving for two things here.
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:36.559
One is we're we're we're solving the copy side and then the the image side, and there's a different approach to each, right?
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:39.599
So I want to show you um what this looks like.
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:41.360
So at a high level, right?
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:43.840
Great, you scored well, you you mapped, right?
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:50.559
Uh on the on the on this side, you know, it it's not always, it's never gonna be 100%, right?
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:57.599
But as long as we're answering the most important stuff in the you know, best way possible, it's gonna connect you uh and and and link on that.
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:03.920
And then on the Rufus Q ⁇ A, you know, it's gonna um so now we've we've answered 12 of the 14 main categories.
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:10.480
Um, most importantly, like the most important research and and um and and questions are being answered in the content, right?
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:13.039
And then we have the solution, right?
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:25.039
So you can click on this to see the the copy solution, and it's given you to you in a in a report uh showing you before and after, like what was the before content, what is the actual optimized content.
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:28.320
So you can kind of compare and contrast, and then the reasons why.
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:32.880
Like, so hey, this is why it's now done in the best way possible.
00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:34.880
And I'll show you kind of what that looks through.
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:45.119
So it helps to build confidence in your strategy and what you're actually putting forward to meet those two goals, which is maximizing human conversion and AI readability, right?
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:48.719
So it'll summarize up top up top, like you know, okay.
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:50.079
So, what is the overview?
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:51.360
What's the key achievement?
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:53.039
What's the primary focus, right?
00:38:53.119 --> 00:39:15.039
So, for example, we executed a fundamental strategic shift from feature-sparse, clinically neutral product mechanics to an empathy-first, condition-specific value proposition that converts every product attribute, non-binding band, uh 91% cotton blend, five-inch width accommodation, true to size guidance, and a tangible relief outcome for the medically underserved customer.
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.679
The mainstream sock industry has historically ignored.
00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:17.920
Wow.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:19.519
That's amazing.
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:20.719
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:24.400
Um, okay, so it's done, it's like, okay, so how is it done that, right?
00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:28.400
Current title, optimized content, current bullets, right?
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:32.559
Uh, optimized bullets, non-binding extra wide design.
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:38.320
If title elastic leaves painful marks or pulling socks on has become a daily struggle, these were made for you.
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:45.679
So if that is if that's identified as one of the most key things that the customers really want, and you reading that first step, right?
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:48.000
You know that uh, oh, this might be the thing for me.
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:54.960
You'll continue to read, you know, and and and when you are reading content at this level, you know, it's it's saying what needs to be done.
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:59.760
But importantly, it's also mapping uh you to be recommended, recommended for these things, right?
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.880
Yeah, what I like too is uh the natural language.
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:06.000
And if anybody's ever done copywriting, it has romance.
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:09.679
So if I look at the current bullets, they leave a lot to be desired.
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:21.519
And and that first one you just read, non-binding extra wide, if tight elastic, like it does a really good job of describing the uh the challenge in a very human conversational way.
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:25.280
So it's very impressive that uh this is what it was able to generate.
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.159
Yeah, and and aligned with the brand tonality, right?
00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:31.760
So um, yeah, so again, uh, you know, description, right?
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:45.440
So you have a description, you have your back and search terms, um, you know, which is important, and then you have uh, and then we get into um so copy, title, descriptions, back and search terms, and then we get into a lot of the reasons why, right?
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:49.920
And so it helps to explain, like, hey, how we evolved the content.
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.480
So before it was like goes on easy and stays on.
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:56.480
Now it's like the non-binding top band stays up, so it's linking the benefits.
00:40:56.639 --> 00:41:01.199
It's um, you know, it's added some additional uh benefits, right?
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:03.119
It's value explained, right?
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:06.400
So it kind of goes through like you know how it's aligned the voice, right?
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:11.599
So it's explained to you like all the things that it's done in the listing, it's gone through all the mapping.
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:19.920
So all that this is that Cosmo mapping, the technical mapping, you know, used for, used in what situation target audience is showing you, it's mapped all of that, right?
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:26.880
And I'll explain to you how it has the why as part of it too, so you can at least understand the rationale behind the changes.
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:34.000
Yeah, now keywords is obviously important, so you can click on this to see all the keywords that you're semantically mapped for, right?
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:35.840
So, yes, there's exact match.
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:37.519
There should be something exact match.
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:39.599
Interestingly, I don't oh yeah.
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:41.519
So, you know, it's exact match.
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:43.840
Interestingly, I don't know why.
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:48.000
Yeah, typically, you know, you should have at least exact match on some of these, right?
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:54.159
So it's showing broad match uh uh oh, here's an exact exact match is actually interestingly in the back end search terms, right?
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:59.920
So um, you know, it'll show you all the keywords that you are broad and exact match through, right?
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:01.440
Across the whole set, right?
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:12.320
And this is from primary data from brand analytics data that's saying, like, hey, what is the most important keywords that we should be exact and broad match for to make sure that we map semantically to to all the keywords that are out there?
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:13.920
And there's a significant amount, right?
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:20.079
So you're you're across all of these keywords without overstuffing your listing with a bunch of stuff, right?
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:21.599
So so pretty cool, right?
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:30.159
And then um we answer all the roof QA questions, you know, and then we get into you know things that you also want to look at.
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:37.039
Like, what is my ideal customer profile, my USP, but importantly, like how what do we understand as your ideal customer profile?
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:42.719
And then how do we cover this where we connect the the unique selling proposition with what customers want, right?
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.360
And so there's a whole bunch of explain explanation there.
00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:51.199
Um, and then the compliance side, like hey, some of the compliance things that we need to make sure that we addressed, right?
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:53.360
So a lot to read there.
00:42:53.440 --> 00:43:01.360
I don't know we don't want to get too much into that, but you have all of that that you can review, and then you can go to the launch center to see, hey, how will my content look, right?
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:04.400
And then importantly, you can do any quick fixes.
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:14.960
So, like, you know, there's always gonna be like, you know what, like we actually we actually want to say um you know extra wide socks, you know, right?
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:18.800
Uh we actually want it to exact match on extra wide socks, so we can change that, right?
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:30.559
Or hey, you know what, like this bullet here I can even use, I can delete things, or I can even go, hey, you know what, like I actually want to lead with um you know this compliance, right?
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:31.920
So can you put that first, right?
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:37.119
I can put exactly what I want, or can you can you write this as 250 characters instead of 500, right?
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:44.559
You can I can say, you know, write as 250 if I want, you know, like I mean, obviously that's two uh pretty big uh characters, right?
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:48.719
Um and it will come back and oops, characters.
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:52.400
Um, and you know, you can you can you can change it, right?
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.719
And it'll say, hey, there's a delete, you want the new one?
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:55.199
Sure.
00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:59.440
So like if you want if there's any final edits, you can do it, you can do it, you can download the CSV.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.519
Integrate into your system, you can upload it into your partial flat file, whatever, right?
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:05.920
So this is the copy side of it, right?
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:13.679
Now, um, the other side of it is the um the image side, right?
00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:15.840
So if I go down here, you can see the image analysis.
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:26.400
Now, this is slightly different because we're not giving you the final solution of like, okay, this is the exact image generated that you should drop into your your your listing.
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:32.559
Uh, we've done that for a very specific reason, but we're giving you all the insights and the recommendations to go behind it.
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:40.559
So think of it as the ultimate like technical and creative brief that you could give to your uh your creative team to execute on.
00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:47.199
And you know, they all the research and everything that needs to be done has been done here uh for both human conversion and AI readability.
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:54.719
We even give you down to the prompts that you can add to nano bananas or whatever you're using to generate images if you want to use that for inspiration or if you actually want to use it.
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:56.880
So, whatever that is, we give it to you, right?
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:01.039
So, you know, what's there's some cool stuff in this report as well.
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:05.440
One of the important things here is like this thing here, what customers want, features and benefits.
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:07.199
This is exactly what matters to customers.
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:13.679
What you know, comfort and fit, medical and therapeutic suitability, material and construction, size, etc.
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:14.480
Right.
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:24.719
What we do up front is we give you a snapshot of the landscape of your listing versus your top competitors, but with this concept of like customers buy with their eyes, right?
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:27.920
So, what is the narrative that you're telling in this image set, right?
00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:30.320
There's and there's no narrative at the moment, right?
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:36.239
So, like, you know, I need to look at this through squinted eyes and be like, what is the story telling me?
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:41.599
Probably the one that's maybe jumping out best is maybe this guy here, diabetic socks, like non-binding top.
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:42.800
Remember, that was important.
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:48.719
Best for people with enhanced comfort, moisture wicking cotton blend, comfort that lasts all day, right?
00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:52.159
So they're telling a story as I scan through the carousel.
00:45:52.239 --> 00:46:02.800
So we want to make sure that we're we're telling a story to our users because they're gonna buy looking at your images, but also that same story and narrative is what um AI is also looking for, right?
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:04.079
In how it reads it, right?
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:09.440
So we give you that, and then we give you a recommendation in terms of your carousel order, main image.
00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:18.000
We all know about the main image, hero shot, close-up macro shot of the non-binding top band gently resting against a bare ankle and lower calf, right?
00:46:18.159 --> 00:46:23.039
Lifestyle scene, infographic, feature highlights, social proof, package bundle, right?
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:25.760
So that's what is recommended, recommending as a sequence.
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:27.760
And then it goes into every single image, right?
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:29.119
We'll go to the second image, right?
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:30.639
Hero shot, research insight.
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:37.920
For shoppers managing diabetes, edema, or lymphedema, the fear of painful elastic marks is the primary purchase barrier.
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:43.599
And a close-up macro shot of mark-free skin is the most direct way to neutralize that fear at the emotional level.
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:45.119
So include that in your insight.
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:49.199
Visual description, extreme close-up macro shot of the non-binding, blah, blah, blah, right?
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:51.840
Headline copy, zero marks, zero constriction.
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:57.280
Supporting copy, non-binding top band stays up all day without squeezing your ankle or calf, right?
00:46:57.840 --> 00:46:59.519
So that's the messaging that needs to go into it.
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:02.960
And then we even give you the technical aspects and the AI prompt.
00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:09.840
So, you know, a lot of brands will upload their current image stack and then upload these prompts and say, hey, give me a better image with the prompt.
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:13.199
And it will come back with an image with your prompts over it.
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:17.599
You can either use that or obviously you can you can um you know put it to your creative team, right?
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:23.840
So it's it's a creative will look at this and be like, I know all this the strategy behind this.
00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:27.280
Let me just make sure this is the most awesome image possible, right?
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:31.679
Um, and we do that for all your images, and then we do it for your EBC too, right?
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:35.440
So down here, um where am I?
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.079
Uh yeah, a A plus EBC content, right?
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:46.320
So brand hero banner, research insight, visual description, all the way through to technical requirements, alt tag that you need to put on the back, image prompt, right?
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:49.440
So again, this is gonna help you solve it for everything on the front.
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:50.719
Nothing left unturned.
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:51.360
That's what I like.
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:57.119
And not only you guys doing the architecture, the branding, but now you're also the the image guideline essentially.
00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:01.039
So you're covering, I mean, all aspects of it a lot, even so the back end.
00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:04.480
So it's a lot covered inside this report.
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:06.000
Yeah, that's it.
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:07.199
So yeah, absolutely.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:14.719
So, you know what we're seeing, and this is important, is like, okay, well, what's the ROI on that, right?
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:18.559
Um and uh how do you track that?
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:25.519
And and what's interesting is it, you know, it's not just pure A-B testing, because A B testing is ultimately testing for conversion, right?
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:27.840
But what we want to understand is discoverability.
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:31.920
So tracking sessions, are my sessions incre increasing?
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:35.599
Tracking uh conversion rates, is there a better conversion rate?
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:42.480
Because we've been recommended in in in ways that customers are looking for the product, but also that we're connecting with them and they're converting, right?
00:48:42.639 --> 00:48:46.880
And then your niche rank, which which is like versus my competitors, my niche rank improving.
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:59.760
So if we can see improvements in that, and importantly, while obviously making sure we track uh PPC spend and price, because if someone spends more and drops their price, you're gonna get better rank and sessions, right?
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:08.000
So we we we have that as a variable because we want to make sure that, like, if that's stable, are we seeing increases in sessions, conversion rank, and and niche rank?
00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:13.039
And and overall, with the listings we're tracking, we're seeing notable uplift in that from day zero, right?
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:22.000
So uh, you know, 68% increase in sessions, 13% increase in in niche rank, 18% in improvements in conversion rate, right?
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:30.159
These are the kind of stats we're seeing, and you know, that ROI comes back because now you know people come back to us and they say, Hey, well, not much has changed, you know.
00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:36.960
Cosmo is is is smart enough to know, like, if I'm tracking for these keywords, you know, it's gonna match me to the keywords and stuff.
00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:39.039
Yes, but you know, you've seen that.
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:48.559
Like, if you're not sending all the strong signals across Cosmo and Rufus, so that discoverability conversational layer, you're surfacing in the right way for that.
00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:51.440
If you're not maximized for that, you're missing out on traffic, right?
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:55.519
And that traffic is converting at a higher percentage, higher values.
00:49:55.599 --> 00:50:00.559
So, you know, it it's it people have to understand that it's not just keyword intent anymore.
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:05.039
There's so many, you know, exponential pathways that people can find your product.
00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:08.079
So you've got to send those signals to it to make sure that you are discoverable.
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:09.199
And so that's what we're doing.
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:09.519
Yeah.
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:10.159
Absolutely.
00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:16.320
And what I hear too is like uh there's so many generic brands on there, so many people using AI incorrectly.
00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:25.760
And what I take is not only what the software offers, but the brand storytelling, that unique selling proposition, like what's gonna actually help you stand out.
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:35.199
And even if it doesn't stick right away, at least you have something you can iterate against based on actual data, as opposed to just, you know, even just semantic text.
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:38.239
Because as you mentioned earlier, the game has changed.
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:40.639
So I really like what you presented here, John.
00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:47.920
Yeah, I um a comment I make on that is like we we have the saying, like you know, chat GBT is the new keyword stuffing, right?
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:52.320
Which is which is like anybody who just uses chat GBT, it's just surface level, right?
00:50:52.480 --> 00:51:08.800
You you're gonna get you're gonna get some you know better answers and probably some some better things, but you have to have the the the knowledge of first-party data, like what's actually happening in Amazon, and clearly we can get at that through our API connections, right?
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:20.079
Um, you know, what you know, reverse engineering and understanding what Cosmo really really needs, uh, reviews, customers, all that kind of stuff, but then also making sure that that mapping and the technical stuff is in place, right?
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:25.760
So those are things that that are not easy to replicate, and certainly Chat GPT is not going to do that.
00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:27.199
So you need that information.
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:36.480
And then to your point, like, you know, as marketers, as e-commerce, um, you know, sellers, you know, what are the what are the things that are important?
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:40.800
And clearly brand strategy and positioning are are really important as well, right?
00:51:41.119 --> 00:51:42.159
Differentiator.
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:44.079
John, thanks so much for coming on.
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:47.440
Before I let you go, I'll include all links in the show notes.
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:50.719
But for anybody listening, where where can they find you?
00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:53.360
And anything else you want to share before I let you go?
00:51:53.760 --> 00:52:06.239
Yeah, um, we'll give you the links, but zonguru.com, uh, you know, on the homepage, there's actually a couple of things you can use, you know, a general technology and software for tracking and insights and you know, dashboards, et cetera.
00:52:06.320 --> 00:52:08.320
But you know, the helix is there for you to sign up.
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:08.800
It's free.
00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:12.000
Just sign up and start using it and do the transformations.
00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:13.599
There's credits that you can purchase.
00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:17.920
But we also have a readiness report on there as well, which is it is totally free.
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:20.559
And that will audit and score your current listing.
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:26.480
So if you want to, if you're curious and you just want to check your listing, go ahead and run that um and then you know, see how you score.
00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:30.079
And then based on that, uh jump in and and get the transformations done.
00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:30.880
Heck yeah.
00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:32.880
John, thanks for coming on and sharing the knowledge.
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:35.599
This is really insightful, and I love what you guys are working on.
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:38.000
So we appreciate coming on selling on Giants.
00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:39.039
Thanks.
00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:41.440
That's a wrap for today's session.
00:52:41.679 --> 00:52:48.159
The big takeaway here is that listings are moving from keyword optimization to structured product understanding.
00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:55.119
The brands that adapt to that shift early are gonna have a real advantage over the next 12 to 24 months.
00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:57.920
Appreciate John walking us through all of this.
00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:08.159
If you're listening and this got you thinking about how your listings are structured today, it's worth taking a step back and reassessing what you're actually feeding Amazon.
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:14.079
As always, if you found this helpful, make sure to like, follow, and subscribe wherever you're tuning in.
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:17.360
We'll see you on our next episode of Selling on Giants.
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:19.039
Welcome back to Selling on Giants, the e-commerce marketplace show.
00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:20.800
Today's going to be a little different.
00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:30.079
Instead of a traditional interview, we're going to do a live working session around something that's starting to impact every brand on Amazon right now.
00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:33.679
Most listings today are still built around keywords.
00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:38.799
The problem is Amazon isn't ranking products the same way it used to.
00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:42.560
There's a shift happening towards AI-driven discovery.
00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:46.399
And a lot of brands are feeling that without fully understanding things.
00:00:47.439 --> 00:01:02.159
So I've got John Tilley of Zong Guru here with me, and we're going to walk through how he's thinking about listings in this new environment, what's actually changing underneath the hood, and what brands should be doing differently if they want to stay competitive.
00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:07.680
The goal here is simple: less theory, more practical.
00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:13.680
If you're running a brand, you should walk away with a clearer way to think about your listings going forward.
00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:15.040
Let's jump in.
00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:17.200
Hey John, welcome to the show.
00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:18.560
I'm excited to have you be here.
00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:19.920
Thank you for taking the time.
00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:28.560
I know you did a little pre-work for this, and we're going to be discussing uh your new software rollout, which is the Helix and how it's impacting search.
00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:34.400
But more importantly, what's been changing in the landscape of Amazon listings and Amazon search?
00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:41.439
We hear tons of buzzwords around Rufus, Cosmos, even some people claiming A10, which I'm not even sure is really a thing.
00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:43.519
But I'd like to get to the root of it today.
00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:47.519
So, John, uh, real quick, do you mind doing a super short introduction?
00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:51.680
And then let's I have some questions for you, and we'll jump into a working session.
00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:54.879
Yeah, uh, well, always uh always good to jump on with you.
00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:55.680
I appreciate it.
00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:57.280
And um, yeah, I'm John.
00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:02.319
Uh, I'm over in uh Los Angeles and I'm the CEO and founder of Zonguru.
00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:15.120
Um, you know, we have a bunch of different tools you can use to really uh optimize and and manage your your Amazon business, uh, but our core focus has always been around uh Amazon's algorithm and reverse engineering.
00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:22.400
Uh, how do you can truly create content that maximizes your exposure and exposure and reach uh on Amazon?
00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:28.319
Um and you know, certainly uh it has had a seismic shift of late uh happen.
00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:38.080
And so, you know, we're truly uh engineered to help brands meet Amazon's AI moment that is currently happening with uh conversational search.
00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:45.360
Uh love how you put it to the moment, because it seems like it just like a switch flipped, and then it's what everybody's talking about.
00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:59.680
Before we jump into a working session and you kind of go over what you guys do and how we look at this, can you tell me what what's changing about like what about the traditional ways is not working anymore in terms of listing structure?
00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:14.080
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think the the most important concept to get across is like at a high level, you know, traditionally the way that Amazon was used as a platform was for intense searches and purchases, right?
00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:18.240
You knew what you wanted, you came on, you typed in a keyword, and you bought your product, right?
00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:24.879
Um, and Amazon's very good at that, and and it was optimizing content on your listing for keyword searches, right?
00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:32.560
And that game has fundamentally changed because the advent of platforms like and LLMs like ChatGBT, right?
00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:47.919
Where um, you know, they've raised their hand and they've said, hey, we're we're we've created this amazing conversational search agent where I can have a conversation with an agent and uh you know get answers to my research questions very quickly.
00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:57.840
Um and we all use Chat GBT or Claude or Perplexity, whatever that is, and and it's been fundamentally integrated into our day-to-day lives, right?
00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:14.719
And uh, you know, uh OpenAI, it's no secrets than ChatGBT that they raised their hand and said, hey, well, if people are searching for products, why don't we uh include links to to buying products on our platform and start to own that area of research and e-commerce purchasing, right?
00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:27.920
And so uh Amazon has, you know, through through has his hands been forced to a degree saying, hey, there's a new way of e-commerce search that's happening and conversational search.
00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:35.519
And we can either decide to give up that um you know, that market share to other platforms, or we can decide to own that, right?
00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:45.199
And they made the decision to own it, and so they launched Rufus, which is a conversational search platform that you can use and help uh find products, right?
00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:57.439
And and you can now use it in a in a keyword intent by a way of finding products, but you can also use it uh in a conversational way where you're researching and trying to find something that matches your your shopping criteria, right?
00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.560
And so Amazon has decided to own that area.
00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:07.120
They've created Rufus and the quality level of that has improved massively, which we'll talk about in a second.
00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:11.439
Um, so that's the one reason is they need to own their market share and they're all in on that.
00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:16.079
But the other side of it is there's over 270 million customers using Rufus today.
00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:18.800
They've projected 12 billion dollars in sales, right?
00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:30.639
Um, and the key stat there is like the you know customers that use Rufus, their propensity to convert is 60% higher than the traditional keyword search method, right?
00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:47.600
So people are having a conversation with Rufus, they're getting the answers to their questions that they have around buying a certain product, they're trusting the recommendations from Rufus and then they're converting at a higher um percentage and at actually at a higher card value as well because there's other recommendations that are coming in.
00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:50.079
So it's cool for Amazon, they're all in on this.
00:05:50.160 --> 00:06:00.720
Um now it's a question of whether uh you know brands uh are in on this as well and they can and they can capitalize on this new discoverability layer that is now available on Amazon.
00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:07.519
So, you know, um I this is our iShop today as I come on and I I will, you know, I don't even use typical keyword search anymore.
00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:11.279
I'll use Rufus because I might have specific questions that I want answered.
00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:28.639
Hey, I'm looking for a um, you know, a baby car seat that has a specific type of strap that I know is important for me that fits this kind of car or a narrow kit or whatever it is, whatever my criteria are, I don't even have to look at PDPs anymore and try and sift through the PDPs and try and find that information.
00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:33.439
I can just ask Rufus and it's gonna come back with answers and recommendations, and then I can click through and look, right?
00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:37.439
So it's a much more efficient, high-quality level search experience.
00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:41.360
Um, and uh, and you know, it's been adopted at a rapid pace.
00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:45.120
Now the trick is what is driving that, right?
00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:49.199
Um, and and what is driving that is a new algorithm called Cosmo.
00:06:49.519 --> 00:07:04.480
So Amazon had to move away from its archaic A9 algorithm that you know was basically looking for keywords in a listing, where it's mathematically where it's placed and what kind of conversion you're getting off of that, to use that as ranking factors, as part of the ranking factors, right?
00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:08.639
There's reviews and everything else that go in, performance uh indicators.
00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:25.199
But um in order to ensure that uh number one, the the Rufus-driven conversational search experience was at a level and a quality level of other LLMs, Amazon had to have a new algorithm put in place, which is Cosmo.
00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:41.519
Now, Cosmo is an intelligent algorithm that will use kind of indicators or signals from your content, from other factors, reviews, you know, performance factors, all that stuff, to then decide, hey, how should we map you to all the different keywords out there, right?
00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:43.600
There's a universe of keywords, right?
00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:54.480
And instead of like it's all semantically you use the content in your listing to map you to all the keywords because Amazon's gonna make more money if it matches you to the right keywords, right?
00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:55.360
So that's the one side.
00:07:55.439 --> 00:08:15.680
And then the other side is the Rufus QA side, which is you know, what are the types of questions and the types of uh you know use cases that uh that will allow Rufus to connect all the dots to recommend you uh, you know, two different types of questions that are being asked in Rufus or or directives, right?
00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:22.399
So if there's prompts or questions happening in Rufus, how is it intelligent enough to know, hey, this is what we need to recommend for that?
00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:27.360
And the quality level needs to be at a high level, and that's why Cosmo uh drives us.
00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:34.320
And Cosmo is intelligent enough to go, hey, I need to structurally look at your content and then connect all the dots, right?
00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:38.559
And if I have a product knowledge graph that will tell me, hey, you know, what is it for?
00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:40.399
Who when is it when should it be used?
00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.799
You know, what are the different use cases, blah, blah, blah.
00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:47.200
If it if it get if it's getting answers to all of that from your content, it knows how to recommend you, right?
00:08:47.279 --> 00:09:04.960
And that's what we call structured listing engineering, which is making sure that it's not just content for converting customers, it's actually a signaling graph that will tell Cosmo, hey, this is what my product should be mapped to for all these different questions, if that makes sense.
00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:06.559
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:07.840
You covered a lot there too.
00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:16.240
And just to kind of rehash, uh, your the adoption of Rufus and AI technologies for search is exponentially increasing.
00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:21.440
I read an article that Millennial and Gen Z is adopting it at a pretty fast rate.
00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:25.279
And you, what was it, 219 million searches on Rufus?
00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:27.519
Uh 370 million customers, yeah.
00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:29.279
Yeah, yeah, it's it's insane.
00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:41.679
And it's true because if uh I'm searching for something very specific to my use case, I'm going to Rufus and I'm telling them, here's the parameters, here's what I'm looking for, and it's making those recommendations.
00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:58.320
And kind of what we're going to dive in today, what the a lot of sellers are missing that's behind the curve is they don't understand that Cosmos is taking like contextual signals of use cases and everything else, and they're applying it to these random searches that are happening.
00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:04.799
And it's only a matter of time before advertising is deeply integrated in this and everything else, which is pretty exciting.
00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:08.399
But on that note, I know that you you looked at actually one of our brands.
00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:12.240
We recently took over extra wide stocks and you did kind of a review.
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:14.480
I'd love to kind of do a working session.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:20.080
So any of our listeners who are tuning in and are saying, boy, that's a lot of data science for me.
00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:21.919
I'm just trying to sell dog food.
00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:32.080
I would love to kind of dive in on like how this is applicable to current listings and anybody who's considering how they're going to optimize for the future, what that might look like.
00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:33.600
John, you ready to jump in?
00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:34.879
Yeah, I'm ready to jump in.
00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:39.840
I think I want to make one more comment, which is which is really cool for brands, right?
00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:56.639
It and you know, the the key thing to understand is the archaic A9 algorithm was like looking for like the more keywords you stuffed into that listing and the more ingredient focused you made that listing, and the more nonsensical you made your bullets and your titles, right?
00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:03.360
We all went through this era of keyword stuffing, you know, the better the algorithm got signals for and the more you rank for, right?
00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:11.759
But ultimately you had like this really crappy listing that didn't make as much sense, but it was really geared towards trying to signal the keywords, right?
00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:15.120
That those days are gone, and in fact, if you do that, you get dinged.
00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:32.320
But the reverse of that is not true, which is like now we can create listings that actually can breathe and can talk about the beautifulness of your product and why it's you know uniquely uh positioned to be a better product for the customers and connect with them emotionally and talk about the brand, right?
00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:38.720
So all the things that we should be doing on your Amazon listing, this heartbeat of your Amazon business.
00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:45.360
Now you have the the opportunity to talk about your brand in the best way and connect with customers and and convert them, right?
00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:47.360
Sell them on your product in a great way.
00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:56.799
So it's a really cool place actually for brands to be, and you can now transition your listings into um you know something that aligns with your brand, which is which is part of our process.
00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:00.320
So I just wanted to mention that because like people are like, oh no, there's this whole technical thing.
00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:07.840
Well, there's like there's a there's a bright side to it as well, which is like, okay, now now we can now we can actually be who we want to be on Amazon, which is great, right?
00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:09.600
So um more branding too.
00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:17.679
Uh get rid of those generics, and also too, like you don't want to index for everything under the sun, you want to index for what you actually sell for and the problems you solve.
00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:19.679
So this is gonna make it easier.
00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:24.159
And um, I can't wait to dive in to see some of the technology you built out to support that.
00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:25.120
Yeah, 100%.
00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:27.600
Uh, is it better for me to leave this here or move it to the other?
00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:29.039
Uh, if you can click that off, that's good.
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:29.600
Hide it.
00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:32.159
Okay, I'll put it here so I can see you anyway.
00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:34.720
Um, cool, you know.
00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:39.039
So um, you know, you're gonna come onto Amazon, right?
00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:42.559
There's obviously different ways for you to uh search, right?
00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:44.000
Extra white socks, right?
00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:48.000
You type that in, uh, and you're gonna start to see your typical organic results.
00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:54.000
Now, obviously, I've clicked on this before, so you know, it's smart enough to start to surface things that I've behaviorally clicked on.
00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:55.840
So that's one way you can find products.
00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:57.759
The other way is obviously with Rufus, right?
00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:04.080
Um, and you know, so that everyone understands, you can go into Rufus and you can ask whatever questions you want.
00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:06.879
It's gonna, it's gonna give you some of these initial prompts.
00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:10.000
Now, these are pretty generic, but like it's like, hey, how can I help you?
00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:13.840
What socks are best for swollen feet, you know, men's versus, you know, etc.
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:14.159
Right.
00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:19.200
So I can ask any questions I want here, um, and it's gonna come back with recommendations.
00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:39.440
So for example, I can go uh you know recommendations for socks uh for socks that help with wide feet, white feet and heavy set bodies.
00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:40.559
I don't know, you know, who knows?
00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:49.120
You know, I'm just making it up, but um, you know, it I've I've kind of shorthanded this, but you can you can obviously have a a decent conversation.
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:56.559
But like if I'm looking for extra wide socks, what you know, what is driving my search criteria and shopping criteria?
00:13:56.720 --> 00:14:11.360
Is it hey, you know, I'm I'm heavy set and I need something that's more supportive, or you know, do I want things that are mid-calf or that really, you know, also support, you know, I don't know if these socks do that, but like support um circulation or whatever it is, right?
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:16.399
So hey, I understand these, you know, I can, you know, it's coming back with some recommendations, right?
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:17.679
At the moment, right?
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:24.559
Interestingly, it's not even it's it's not uh actually even it comes down with with uh extra wide down the bottom, right?
00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:41.279
Now, I can get I can get into this and and we don't want to get sidetracked too much, but you know, I can start to have a conversation here and say, hey, you know, great, like what are some other things that I should be looking at when I'm looking for socks, right?
00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:45.279
And it it'll come back and give me some some further questions or things I need to look at.
00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:47.440
I can ask for recommendations, right?
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:53.440
And it'll be interesting to see, like, hey, is it gonna recommend extra wide socks or or a different brand, right?
00:14:53.600 --> 00:15:13.120
And I've seen this time and time again where where brands that are that are well known and might come up organically in a keyword search um search, uh, when I'm actually you know getting down to the the point of saying, hey, Rufus, recommend to me what's the best one for a premium level extra wide stock.
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:19.200
You know, it might not come back and actually recommend your specific brand, it will recommend a different product, right?
00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:21.120
Because it might not be getting the exact signals.
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:34.320
And so it's really an interesting area to play with Rufus because there's the general recommendations, but if you think about people who are actively using Rufus, they might have some longer tail search criteria, right?
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:36.240
They might or shopping criteria, right?
00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:40.720
So, like, you know, I really want a black, you know, uh organic cotton, etc.
00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:45.519
Like so some of those longer tail use cases, you know, Rufus is gonna come back and recommend.
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:50.960
So you've got to make sure that, you know, for the universe that's out there, it's almost like a longer tail keyword.
00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.200
You have to have those recommendations in place as well, right?
00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:58.159
And that's the kind of stuff that we do um with with uh with Rufus, right?
00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.159
So I'm gonna show you how we do this, right?
00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:04.159
And so uh we can look at um and feel free to ask questions that we go.
00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:05.519
Well, but like no, I'm looking at this brand.
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:11.200
It sounds like like you really need to understand your customer, who you serve and your product, right?
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:20.639
Because if you're gonna be updating this to my point, you don't want to be everything to everyone, but people with diabetes, heavier set people, people with just big feet.
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:28.639
Obviously, you want to make sure that you understand how they shop and the questions they might ask, which is how you're gonna index better, right?
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:29.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:40.960
And so I it's it's an important point, and maybe just one last piece of theory on on this is there's two this Cosmo is looking for two kind of categories uh for signaling, right?
00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:58.639
One is uh something that Amazon gave us, which is it's a product knowledge graph, it's actually like a technical graphical mapping that you will have within your listing, which in a simple way of explaining it's it's it's a whole bunch of uh questions that Cosmo needs answers to.
00:16:58.799 --> 00:16:59.679
What is the product for?
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:00.480
Who's it for?
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:01.840
What are the different use cases?
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:02.799
Is it seasonal?
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:10.160
You know, so all of those typical questions, it's intelligent enough to say, hey, give me the answers to this because then I'll know how to serve you, right?
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.160
What are the best keywords that you should be recommended for?
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:21.200
So Cosmo needs that mapping, and then the other side is the customer rufous style questions that that it needs to understand.
00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:25.440
Like, what are the different types of questions that your product should be recommended for?
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:42.079
And so we do a lot of engineering also on the question side on two factors, which is like, well, there's a number of different factors, but one is like what are the common, most common questions that customers will be asking when they're researching this type of product?
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:43.680
So research is important, right?
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:46.799
Because you want to service for the the the common research questions.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:54.559
But the other side is what are the most common questions that people have around the questions for shopping criteria to make conversions, right?
00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:57.279
And it's really important to understand the difference between the two.
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:00.079
There's research questions and then there's conversion questions.
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.920
Like if I get the answers on these ones, I know I'm gonna get a higher conversion, right?
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:13.440
So we reverse engineer and we look across the spectrum of like what are the the most important questions, um, and then and then make sure we answer that on two factors.
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:15.200
And we we score listings based on that.
00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:18.559
So I'm gonna show you how we score that and then obviously how we optimize uh in a second.
00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:20.799
But you know, high level just looking at this listing.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.599
Um pretty interesting to make a comment on that.
00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:46.960
So, like what you really you're taking almost a funnel approach where it's like discovery happens here, intents here, and then these are kind of the lines of questions around it, which is a really interesting way to kind of discover how customers might initially discover and find in market versus somebody who is that customer and they're a little more dialed into exactly what they're looking for.
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:47.599
That's right.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:48.480
Yeah, 100%.
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:54.400
Um, so yeah, I mean, obviously this listing needs uh help, right?
00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:58.799
Um, I mean, it does pretty well right now, but you guys are brought in to to help this listing.
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:12.079
I mean, one of the first things I'd say is like, you know, for Cosmo and obviously conversion, images are critical, not only what the images are, but what are the copy overlays that go on this, right?
00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:20.960
And the narrative that you're telling to help obviously mainly with conversion with with humans, but on the other side, AI also reads your images, right?
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:27.519
So, you know, this this certainly needs help with like what is the actual overlay and the content that goes into that, right?
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:32.799
And we we help on that front, and then obviously on the the title, um, and then the bullets, right?
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:38.160
Uh, you know, there's a whole bunch of stuff here that is being used to signal the strength of the listing, right?
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.680
So uh it has EBC content, fine, but it's gonna need some help.
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:45.680
So let's look at what this listing looks like, and so just uh chime in.
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:47.119
So that's a really interesting point.
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:54.240
So Rufus slash Cosmos, they're actually so like those images that had no words, they were just lifestyle shots.
00:19:54.400 --> 00:20:01.359
It pays to put some text, the text overlay over that because it's going to get indexed one way or another.
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.039
That's that's true, John.
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:04.400
That's true, yeah.
00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:12.880
So, you know, you can drop any image into you know, it's no secret that that that uh Rufus is driven by you know LLMs, right?
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:16.079
They have Amazon Nivo, but they use anthropic as well, you know.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:17.920
So it's similar to other LLMs, right?
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:28.000
If you take you you can't see the black box of what um you know Cosmo is, but if you take you know any image and drop it into Chat GBT and say, hey, what does this image tell you?
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.000
It's gonna come back and tell you a story, right?
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:34.319
And that's due to the content of the image, but the metadata behind it, right?
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:39.200
And it's the same way with so the alt tags and everything else that you're adding in Amazon matter as well, right?
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:42.000
Um and that that space will get progressively better.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:45.680
Um, you know, Amazon needs to take a couple steps there, but yeah, it does read your images.
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.400
So um this is Helix, right?
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.480
You can jump in, uh, we'll we'll give you a link.
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:56.240
You can sign up and you know, it'll explain to you exactly how to go about transforming a listing.
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.319
So there's really three steps, right?
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.559
There's uh create your brand, right?
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:02.559
Add your products, transform your listing.
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:19.519
Now, I want to talk about this for a second because we've taken the approach of saying, hey, if you're gonna if if there's an uh a need right now to transform your listing to make sure that you are now discoverable across keyword search and conversational search, right?
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:33.200
And get maximizing your discoverability, if we're gonna redo the content because it needs to be done, we might as well take the time right now to improve those other areas that I talked about, which is like, you know, let's start with your brand.
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:40.079
Like what's your brand strategy, what's your brand um, you know, voice, uh, what's your brand style, right?
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:41.359
Who are you as a brand?
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:42.079
What's your mission?
00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:46.559
What's your, you know, what what's your what's your values of what you bring to the space, right?
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:59.440
And so we spent some time making sure that we have in this agency system, we have agents that will go and research online, discover your brand, reflect back to you what the brand is, and do all that research.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.880
And and and then give you an opportunity to input into that, right?
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:09.359
Because it's trying to learn exactly if I'm going to write your content, it needs to come from you know what is your brand about, right?
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:14.319
So we do a lot of learning on that side, and then we we we do a lot of learning on the product side.
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:22.400
So when you do the product side, we do deep research on your Amazon niche, but like at the end of the day, it's a positioning exercise, right?
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:36.160
And so as marketers, as brand owners or as agencies, we we understand the idea of positioning, which is like, okay, on Amazon, you know, we need to position your unique selling proposition around what do customers want.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:37.839
So what are they saying reviews?
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:39.759
What do customers truly want in extra wide socks?
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.359
Not what we think, what do they want?
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.160
Yeah, what are your competitors all talking about?
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.720
And how what's what's our strengths as a as a product and as a brand?
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:50.720
And how can we uniquely position that, right?
00:22:50.799 --> 00:23:09.759
So that's the the idea of the product side, which is like how do we uniquely position your your brand, but also talk about all the product attributes and the the disclaimers and the um the credentials or whatever it is around this product, how do we talk about that in the right way that matters to customers, right?
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:18.240
So we we do a deep exercise on that, and then we finally transform the listings for obviously content that sells the customer, right?
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.319
Um on the images and the content side, but is also mapped for for the AI readability.
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:38.319
So that's like in a nutshell, the process that you go through here, and we make sure that we we allow you to go along with that process and input into that process because you know our agents are going to take the best shot at this, but you guys are the subject matter experts, brand owners or agencies.
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:41.759
So get get the opportunity for you to give that input along the way, right?
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:55.279
Yeah, and John, what I'm hearing, I love is like how much how important branding is now for the brands that are competing on Amazon or in marketplaces in general, and even from like the super basic level, it's messaging and positioning.
00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:03.759
And you need to understand the brand if you're gonna get the correct messaging, and then obviously the positioning and the unique selling proposition can all fold into that.
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:12.400
So I really think it's smart how you guys have designed the system to put the brand first, dive deeper into products, and then actually optimize these listings.
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:16.400
So I'm excited to see what you guys came up with with uh extra wide sock.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:24.160
Yeah, um, uh, you know, may maybe not the maybe maybe not the most uh flamboyant brand out there, but you know, it's a brand.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:28.880
Um and you know, so so I've I've done this step, right?
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:32.400
Because um, for sake of time, you know, just jumping and do it.
00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:35.039
But this whole process can take minutes, right?
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:37.759
So you've got to go in and and and go through the process.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:59.200
But at the end of the day, um, you know, uh as you as it creates this content, right, you can you can kind of you'll get um you'll get a um kind of a guide that the an agents on the right hand side that might come back with specific answers that it's confident on, but where it's not confident, it might stop and say, hey, can you verify this information?
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.240
So for the sake of time, I just clicked through and verified everything.
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:06.480
But at the end of the day, right, you you have your brand story, right?
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:14.240
Where you know, founded in the mid-1990s by Karen and Bruce, after recognizing a significant gap in the markets, you know, it talks about the brand origin.
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:19.599
This is this is all pulling from content, you know, third-party content across the web, right?
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:22.319
Vision statement to deliver unparalleled comfort and joy.
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:23.359
You know, is that correct?
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.359
Is this the vision vision statement that they have?
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:27.839
Audience and position, target audience, right?
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:28.400
Who is it?
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:32.480
People with wider feet, ankles, and calves who struggle to find socks that fit, right?
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:34.640
Um, uh without constriction, right?
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:35.359
That kind of stuff.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:38.640
Unique value proposition, family-owned, American-made brand.
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:40.640
American is obviously important here, right?
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:41.440
Very profound.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:46.480
Uh built around with and medical fit, three specialized sub brands, right?
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:49.680
So it comes back with all of this and says this is what our uniqueness is.
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:51.759
Like, you know, how do we position ourselves in the market?
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:58.160
Is it niche medical, comfort specialist, American-made, mid-market, inclusive fits, you know, ad market positions?
00:25:58.240 --> 00:25:58.960
You can add more, right?
00:25:59.039 --> 00:25:59.519
Or delete.
00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:07.119
Voice and messaging, friendly, playful, conversational with a genuine, empathetic core, uses rhetorical questions and humor to connect.
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:10.720
Feeling trapped by tight socks, had to cut the tops just to fit, right?
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.519
So, like, you know, like this is obviously his brand, right?
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:16.319
Messaging preference, lead with the customer's pain point, right?
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:22.400
Topics to avoid, stating in specific founded year, uh, all materials, USA source, right?
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:28.640
So it kind of comes back with things that you might want to avoid and then proof, like submission and values, achievements, and social proof.
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:34.000
You know, it had questions around this, like, hey, we found 5,265 Amazon reviews with a five-star rating.
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:34.720
Is that true, right?
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:35.920
So, whatever it is, right?
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:39.680
It came back and you can you can delete these or you know, you can accept them.
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:42.000
For the purpose of this, I don't know the brand, I just accepted it, right?
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:47.039
So it's just uh for for our listeners, I gave John no information.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:51.359
We met the week before just to kind of prep for this inner uh this workshop together.
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:53.839
And he asked, Do you have a brand we can run this on?
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:54.720
It would be fun.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:57.839
And I just said, extra wide stocks, they're new to us.
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.559
And I just shared, I didn't even share the website link.
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:02.480
I was just like, here's the top seller.
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.519
And today we're seeing what the software actually came up with.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:11.440
So as I'm listening in and somebody who's working with Karen and Bruce, uh, a lot of this lines up.
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:12.799
I mean, a lot of it.
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:25.200
So it's really impressive that John, your software was able to kind of scour the internet, pull a lot of these in, but also get to the intricacies of the value proposition, the social proof, messaging.
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.480
So, from the outsider looking in, this is pretty impressive.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:30.960
How long did it take to generate this page?
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.920
Is this like three days or no, no, two minutes?
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:35.200
Yeah, it'll do two minutes.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:36.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:37.359
That is impressive.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:37.759
Wow.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:39.839
It'll do it'll do it in under two minutes.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:48.640
Um, and you know, you can you can you can also choose to like, hey, go ahead and pull from my website or you enter a URL and start there.
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:55.039
But you know, you can also skip that if you had like a brand strategy document and you wanted to upload it and teach it that way, you can do it as well, right?
00:27:55.279 --> 00:28:02.720
But but to your point, like it's it's pretty cool to see this reflection back, and there'll be some things that maybe brand owners or agencies haven't thought about yet.
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.920
So it's a kind of it's a good reflection from the forest from the trees, right?
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.039
Like, oh, what is it?
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:15.440
You know, we've had we've had brands come back to us and say, yo, this is you know, my website is not doing a good job of telling us what our brand is about, right?
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.279
So I'm gonna go and fix that first, right?
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:20.400
So um it's kind of interesting, and you can export, right?
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:28.720
So there's value in this, obviously for Amazon, but you can literally have this export of this this brand strategy document that you can use on on other platforms, right?
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:36.720
So once you've done that, like now you've you we've ultimately kind of factored in like some kind of knowledge around the brand, right?
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:41.519
And as much information as you add to that, the more intelligent uh the agent is, right?
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:43.599
And then we would go into the product side.
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:48.960
So uh, you know, I I I did one of the products because I did a transformation, but I want to show you kind of what it looks like, right?
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:53.839
So um I just took the the extra wide comfort socks here, right?
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.720
Um, you know, it'll importantly, it comes back with a readiness score, right?
00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:07.759
So if I click on this, this is showing you on the current listing how well is this brand actually optimized for um for Cosmo and Rufus, right?
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:09.680
On the mapping side, which I talked about, right?
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:16.319
This left side, and then on the Rufus QA side, it's got a score of 61 out of 100, which to be honest is not actually that bad, right?
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:22.000
Typically anything over 70, 75% is starting to get into a decent range, right?
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:32.960
But there is some you know mapping that's already in place, but there's significant gaps, like it's showing you here, like uh used for, like how do you use it compared to alternatives?
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.880
Uh, you know, develop skill used in, used on, used with.
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:42.079
This is the one that's usually missing, the used with complementary, which is like that's a coby behavior, right?
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:52.880
Saying, like, hey, if I'm buying thrombosis leggings, leggings for thrombosis, if I'm a customer buying that, I might also want to buy extra wide great socks, right?
00:29:53.039 --> 00:30:02.079
And so if you're not signaling to Cosmo the the coby coefficients and how those products can go for, it's not gonna recommend you in these other situations.
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:05.839
And you want to be recommended when people might not be thinking about extra wide socks.
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:07.680
I'm looking for these type of pants.
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.680
Hey, Rufus will come back and say, Hey, now that you find the pants, what about socks?
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:18.480
You know, and so if you can get recommended like that, you're just gonna increase your your revenue and selling, right?
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:23.279
So it's saying you're there's areas to improve here, and then on the Rufus QA, there's things missing.
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:25.440
What shoe size is for small men?
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:27.599
What is the actual foot width measurement?
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:28.960
Will they shrink after washing?
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:30.400
Are they cushioned for athletic use?
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:31.680
Do they have arch support?
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:37.119
You know, these are all common questions people have that um that's an interesting one.
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.200
Like if I'm buying these socks, like you know, is it gonna support my arch, right?
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.279
Do these socks have that built in or not?
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:45.839
Like, and if it doesn't, is that part of my shopping criterion?
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:47.279
I'm gonna buy another sock, right?
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:50.079
So it's kind of interesting to see some of the this is just a high level.
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:52.640
It's not all the questions, it's just giving you a snapshot.
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:54.000
Um but it's giving you a lot of.
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:56.640
I do like the Cosmo and the QA too.
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:02.319
Something we always do on our side, which is a little more manual, scrape reviews, look at competitor QA's.
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:09.759
It's interesting to get the Rufus perspective, and I'm sure it's based on uh the algorithm and how you guys are connected to the back end.
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:10.960
So that's pretty interesting.
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:11.680
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:13.920
So we're using primary data to get at that as well.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:21.519
Um, so it's gonna come back and say, um, hey, what's your main main niche, which is basically your main buyer keyword, right?
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:25.279
So uh extra wide stocks for men, you can change it, of course, if you want.
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.079
Um, you know, you can you can um change it.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:30.000
It's got your top competitors.
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:32.559
Uh, you know, I just selected these, but you can change them.
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:41.839
So, like, you know, if we all know on Amazon, if we can help seed this with the most relevant competitors, it's gonna do a better job of of understanding your niche.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:46.559
Um, and then um you know, now we get into key features and benefits.
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:49.279
So this is the important stuff, right?
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:53.119
That is really critical to uniquely positioning your brand.
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:56.640
But it's a summary of like what this is and what matters to customers.
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:01.680
So extra wide uh fit up to you know 60 width, uh whatever that means, right?
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:10.480
Designed specifically for wide feet, fits overcast and Uno boots, superior stretch, allows the socks to go on easily, soft ring spun, cotton construction.
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:17.359
Uh, I clicked through some of these, but you know, these might be met if I made in the USA, unisex, medium cushioning, medium weight, right?
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.160
So there's a bunch of key features and benefits.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:21.920
Now there's differentiators, right?
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.079
And it's it knows some of these, right?
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:28.640
But actually, it's saying here, hey, can you confirm these are the widest quarter socks available on the market?
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:29.759
Interesting.
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:36.079
Um, and and I can say, sure, you know, I can confirm that, or I can request a change, right?
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:37.039
So I can confirm.
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:42.720
Then it's gonna come back and say, Hey, uh, you know, your listing mentions four size available.
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.759
What are the exact size names and corresponding shoe ranges?
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:51.839
And actually, it's gonna give you its best answer, and you if you hit tab, it'll actually put that in, right?
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:56.640
So what's cool about that is like it it'll have its best answer, but it's not quite sure.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:58.400
So you can select the answer or not, right?
00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:59.920
So we'll just do continue for now, right?
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:09.599
So this is the process of how you go through um and you verify um, you know, questions, sizes, and then it gets into certifications, right?
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:29.359
Um, you know, so it's gonna ask you like, hey, are these socks O E KO Tech standard 100 certified yes, no, you know, whatever these are, but these are important certifications for the things and sometimes it's gonna lean a lot more on like some of the certifications that could be in place.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:33.839
Yeah, and it's important to you, you know, as a subject matter expert, you might be like, hey, like we don't worry about this.
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:35.839
So we'll just we'll just get remove it, right?
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:41.519
See, not sure about SOX, but I could see supplement brands being GMP manufactured, for example.
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:44.880
That would be something that yeah, uh you probably want to put on your listings.
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:46.400
Um, so it's pretty interesting.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.599
It's looking at uh that aspect, and I see compliance too.
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:55.759
So that's uh yeah, so compliance disclaimers, like you know, those are important, and then do not mentions, which we all know is so critical, right?
00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:56.799
Like, especially like this.
00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:02.240
If you're gonna say anti-mike anti-bacterial socks, you might get nailed, right?
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:06.559
So, you know, and if I start saying, hey, it's gonna be medical grade, right?
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.159
You might get flagged on Amazon and and your listing might not go live, right?
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:16.480
So it's kind of come back with like, hey, some of the do not mentions, and you can click yes, verify, or remove, or add your own ones, right?
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:26.079
So if you know specific things will help that shouldn't be mentioned, put a chair because then the system will know uh and and then obviously avoid that in the content writing, right?
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:28.559
Make sure and then it does its own first pass, John.
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.440
So like it, like we have our own prohibited keyword list.
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:36.960
I'll take it, it's pretty much baked in, so it'll flag it if it's potential and we'll just verify it or add to it.
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:37.440
Very good.
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:44.960
Yeah, just looking at the niche and it understands like um you know at first pass what are the main things that you shouldn't mention, but you can add to that as well.
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.760
Beautiful, and then you go seven.
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:49.360
That's a huge improvement.
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.719
Yeah, so you know, this is a transformation I did now.
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:56.400
Um, I want to I want to show you.
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:58.400
Uh maybe we can just take a second on this one.
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:00.639
Let's see if I can just click through this real quick.
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:01.119
Hold on.
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:02.800
Uh, we're just gonna accept these, right?
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:03.679
Let me just do this.
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:04.400
Let's do it.
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:05.920
It's an example anyway.
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:06.639
Yeah.
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:08.559
Given you made this positioning, okay.
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:16.559
So now what's cool about that, which I don't know if you saw that, but like based on the answer I gave before, it rethinks and it might say, Oh, because now you've verified it as this.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:18.480
Let me ask you some other questions, right?
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.519
So it's a it's kind of a you know, it's a brain, right?
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:25.599
It's thinking, and based on your answer, it might have some other things that it wants to verify, right?
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:28.719
So uh now once you're done with this, let's see if we're done.
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:29.599
It might have one more.
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:30.480
Let's see.
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:34.320
Um let's say we do not mention diabetic, whatever.
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:34.719
Okay.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:39.039
Um so now you can run a transformation.
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:47.760
So I just I'll run it on this white one, but what's cool when when you run the transformation, this is the this might take like five to ten minutes to really do this, right?
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:54.159
Because we're got we this brain, you can start to see it's it's it's starting to think, right?
00:35:54.239 --> 00:36:06.960
And it's thinking about your brand, it's thinking about the the niche, the answers we're getting around the product attributes, and now it's strategically writing your content to make sure that you're positioned uniquely, to make sure you connect with customers.
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:11.760
And what's cool, you can do this for the first time, and you can actually follow along and just kind of see how it's thinking, right?
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:18.559
So, you know, I noticed the listing is doing exactly what it should for a medical focused product, it nails target audience, problem solving, etc.
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:23.360
Um, you know, um, so it's saying, hey, we we noticed that, right?
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:25.119
But it now it's saying, hey, this is interesting.
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:34.559
The weakest dimensions are skills development, time, season, huge season, location, none of which are actually relevant to how someone with them for demo or a class buys socks.
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:39.440
The listing isn't failing to communicate those things, those dimensions just don't matter for this product category and audience.
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:45.039
So you know, so you can see it's in the research phase right now, but it's finding these like points, right?
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:46.400
And it's kind of highlighting them.
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:54.239
Like I'm seeing a potential mismatch between the brand, what the brand wants to emphasize, American-made, etc., and what the listing is optimizing for.
00:36:54.480 --> 00:37:03.440
The UVP, you know, or USP leans heavily into the only family-owned American-made story, but that narrative isn't showing up strongly in the current listing copy.
00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:05.920
It's mentioned once in the bullet, not woven into the positioning.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.280
So I want to change that, right?
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:11.119
So it's finding all these things, and then it's going to start doing the strategy and crafting, etc.
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:19.840
So it's really cool as like the agency or the brand to follow along first and say, hey, like what are the gaps and like how should we strategically change this content, right?
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:23.199
So that's what it does as it goes through and does this process.
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:26.800
And then obviously you get to the transformation, which is this, right?
00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:29.920
Um, now we're solving for two things here.
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:36.559
One is we're we're we're solving the copy side and then the the image side, and there's a different approach to each, right?
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:39.599
So I want to show you um what this looks like.
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:41.360
So at a high level, right?
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:43.840
Great, you scored well, you you mapped, right?
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:50.559
Uh on the on the on this side, you know, it it's not always, it's never gonna be 100%, right?
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:57.599
But as long as we're answering the most important stuff in the you know, best way possible, it's gonna connect you uh and and and link on that.
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:03.920
And then on the Rufus Q ⁇ A, you know, it's gonna um so now we've we've answered 12 of the 14 main categories.
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:10.480
Um, most importantly, like the most important research and and um and and questions are being answered in the content, right?
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:13.039
And then we have the solution, right?
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:25.039
So you can click on this to see the the copy solution, and it's given you to you in a in a report uh showing you before and after, like what was the before content, what is the actual optimized content.
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:28.320
So you can kind of compare and contrast, and then the reasons why.
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:32.880
Like, so hey, this is why it's now done in the best way possible.
00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:34.880
And I'll show you kind of what that looks through.
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:45.119
So it helps to build confidence in your strategy and what you're actually putting forward to meet those two goals, which is maximizing human conversion and AI readability, right?
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:48.719
So it'll summarize up top up top, like you know, okay.
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:50.079
So, what is the overview?
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:51.360
What's the key achievement?
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:53.039
What's the primary focus, right?
00:38:53.119 --> 00:39:15.039
So, for example, we executed a fundamental strategic shift from feature-sparse, clinically neutral product mechanics to an empathy-first, condition-specific value proposition that converts every product attribute, non-binding band, uh 91% cotton blend, five-inch width accommodation, true to size guidance, and a tangible relief outcome for the medically underserved customer.
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.679
The mainstream sock industry has historically ignored.
00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:17.920
Wow.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:19.519
That's amazing.
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:20.719
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:24.400
Um, okay, so it's done, it's like, okay, so how is it done that, right?
00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:28.400
Current title, optimized content, current bullets, right?
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:32.559
Uh, optimized bullets, non-binding extra wide design.
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:38.320
If title elastic leaves painful marks or pulling socks on has become a daily struggle, these were made for you.
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:45.679
So if that is if that's identified as one of the most key things that the customers really want, and you reading that first step, right?
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:48.000
You know that uh, oh, this might be the thing for me.
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:54.960
You'll continue to read, you know, and and and when you are reading content at this level, you know, it's it's saying what needs to be done.
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:59.760
But importantly, it's also mapping uh you to be recommended, recommended for these things, right?
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.880
Yeah, what I like too is uh the natural language.
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:06.000
And if anybody's ever done copywriting, it has romance.
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:09.679
So if I look at the current bullets, they leave a lot to be desired.
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:21.519
And and that first one you just read, non-binding extra wide, if tight elastic, like it does a really good job of describing the uh the challenge in a very human conversational way.
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:25.280
So it's very impressive that uh this is what it was able to generate.
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.159
Yeah, and and aligned with the brand tonality, right?
00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:31.760
So um, yeah, so again, uh, you know, description, right?
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:45.440
So you have a description, you have your back and search terms, um, you know, which is important, and then you have uh, and then we get into um so copy, title, descriptions, back and search terms, and then we get into a lot of the reasons why, right?
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:49.920
And so it helps to explain, like, hey, how we evolved the content.
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.480
So before it was like goes on easy and stays on.
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:56.480
Now it's like the non-binding top band stays up, so it's linking the benefits.
00:40:56.639 --> 00:41:01.199
It's um, you know, it's added some additional uh benefits, right?
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:03.119
It's value explained, right?
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:06.400
So it kind of goes through like you know how it's aligned the voice, right?
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:11.599
So it's explained to you like all the things that it's done in the listing, it's gone through all the mapping.
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:19.920
So all that this is that Cosmo mapping, the technical mapping, you know, used for, used in what situation target audience is showing you, it's mapped all of that, right?
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:26.880
And I'll explain to you how it has the why as part of it too, so you can at least understand the rationale behind the changes.
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:34.000
Yeah, now keywords is obviously important, so you can click on this to see all the keywords that you're semantically mapped for, right?
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:35.840
So, yes, there's exact match.
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:37.519
There should be something exact match.
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:39.599
Interestingly, I don't oh yeah.
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:41.519
So, you know, it's exact match.
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:43.840
Interestingly, I don't know why.
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:48.000
Yeah, typically, you know, you should have at least exact match on some of these, right?
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:54.159
So it's showing broad match uh uh oh, here's an exact exact match is actually interestingly in the back end search terms, right?
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:59.920
So um, you know, it'll show you all the keywords that you are broad and exact match through, right?
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:01.440
Across the whole set, right?
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:12.320
And this is from primary data from brand analytics data that's saying, like, hey, what is the most important keywords that we should be exact and broad match for to make sure that we map semantically to to all the keywords that are out there?
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:13.920
And there's a significant amount, right?
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:20.079
So you're you're across all of these keywords without overstuffing your listing with a bunch of stuff, right?
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:21.599
So so pretty cool, right?
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:30.159
And then um we answer all the roof QA questions, you know, and then we get into you know things that you also want to look at.
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:37.039
Like, what is my ideal customer profile, my USP, but importantly, like how what do we understand as your ideal customer profile?
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:42.719
And then how do we cover this where we connect the the unique selling proposition with what customers want, right?
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.360
And so there's a whole bunch of explain explanation there.
00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:51.199
Um, and then the compliance side, like hey, some of the compliance things that we need to make sure that we addressed, right?
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:53.360
So a lot to read there.
00:42:53.440 --> 00:43:01.360
I don't know we don't want to get too much into that, but you have all of that that you can review, and then you can go to the launch center to see, hey, how will my content look, right?
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:04.400
And then importantly, you can do any quick fixes.
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:14.960
So, like, you know, there's always gonna be like, you know what, like we actually we actually want to say um you know extra wide socks, you know, right?
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:18.800
Uh we actually want it to exact match on extra wide socks, so we can change that, right?
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:30.559
Or hey, you know what, like this bullet here I can even use, I can delete things, or I can even go, hey, you know what, like I actually want to lead with um you know this compliance, right?
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:31.920
So can you put that first, right?
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:37.119
I can put exactly what I want, or can you can you write this as 250 characters instead of 500, right?
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:44.559
You can I can say, you know, write as 250 if I want, you know, like I mean, obviously that's two uh pretty big uh characters, right?
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:48.719
Um and it will come back and oops, characters.
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:52.400
Um, and you know, you can you can you can change it, right?
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.719
And it'll say, hey, there's a delete, you want the new one?
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:55.199
Sure.
00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:59.440
So like if you want if there's any final edits, you can do it, you can do it, you can download the CSV.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.519
Integrate into your system, you can upload it into your partial flat file, whatever, right?
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:05.920
So this is the copy side of it, right?
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:13.679
Now, um, the other side of it is the um the image side, right?
00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:15.840
So if I go down here, you can see the image analysis.
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:26.400
Now, this is slightly different because we're not giving you the final solution of like, okay, this is the exact image generated that you should drop into your your your listing.
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:32.559
Uh, we've done that for a very specific reason, but we're giving you all the insights and the recommendations to go behind it.
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:40.559
So think of it as the ultimate like technical and creative brief that you could give to your uh your creative team to execute on.
00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:47.199
And you know, they all the research and everything that needs to be done has been done here uh for both human conversion and AI readability.
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:54.719
We even give you down to the prompts that you can add to nano bananas or whatever you're using to generate images if you want to use that for inspiration or if you actually want to use it.
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:56.880
So, whatever that is, we give it to you, right?
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:01.039
So, you know, what's there's some cool stuff in this report as well.
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:05.440
One of the important things here is like this thing here, what customers want, features and benefits.
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:07.199
This is exactly what matters to customers.
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:13.679
What you know, comfort and fit, medical and therapeutic suitability, material and construction, size, etc.
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:14.480
Right.
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:24.719
What we do up front is we give you a snapshot of the landscape of your listing versus your top competitors, but with this concept of like customers buy with their eyes, right?
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:27.920
So, what is the narrative that you're telling in this image set, right?
00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:30.320
There's and there's no narrative at the moment, right?
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:36.239
So, like, you know, I need to look at this through squinted eyes and be like, what is the story telling me?
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:41.599
Probably the one that's maybe jumping out best is maybe this guy here, diabetic socks, like non-binding top.
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:42.800
Remember, that was important.
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:48.719
Best for people with enhanced comfort, moisture wicking cotton blend, comfort that lasts all day, right?
00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:52.159
So they're telling a story as I scan through the carousel.
00:45:52.239 --> 00:46:02.800
So we want to make sure that we're we're telling a story to our users because they're gonna buy looking at your images, but also that same story and narrative is what um AI is also looking for, right?
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:04.079
In how it reads it, right?
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:09.440
So we give you that, and then we give you a recommendation in terms of your carousel order, main image.
00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:18.000
We all know about the main image, hero shot, close-up macro shot of the non-binding top band gently resting against a bare ankle and lower calf, right?
00:46:18.159 --> 00:46:23.039
Lifestyle scene, infographic, feature highlights, social proof, package bundle, right?
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:25.760
So that's what is recommended, recommending as a sequence.
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:27.760
And then it goes into every single image, right?
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:29.119
We'll go to the second image, right?
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:30.639
Hero shot, research insight.
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:37.920
For shoppers managing diabetes, edema, or lymphedema, the fear of painful elastic marks is the primary purchase barrier.
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:43.599
And a close-up macro shot of mark-free skin is the most direct way to neutralize that fear at the emotional level.
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:45.119
So include that in your insight.
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:49.199
Visual description, extreme close-up macro shot of the non-binding, blah, blah, blah, right?
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:51.840
Headline copy, zero marks, zero constriction.
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:57.280
Supporting copy, non-binding top band stays up all day without squeezing your ankle or calf, right?
00:46:57.840 --> 00:46:59.519
So that's the messaging that needs to go into it.
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:02.960
And then we even give you the technical aspects and the AI prompt.
00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:09.840
So, you know, a lot of brands will upload their current image stack and then upload these prompts and say, hey, give me a better image with the prompt.
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:13.199
And it will come back with an image with your prompts over it.
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:17.599
You can either use that or obviously you can you can um you know put it to your creative team, right?
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:23.840
So it's it's a creative will look at this and be like, I know all this the strategy behind this.
00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:27.280
Let me just make sure this is the most awesome image possible, right?
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:31.679
Um, and we do that for all your images, and then we do it for your EBC too, right?
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:35.440
So down here, um where am I?
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.079
Uh yeah, a A plus EBC content, right?
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:46.320
So brand hero banner, research insight, visual description, all the way through to technical requirements, alt tag that you need to put on the back, image prompt, right?
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:49.440
So again, this is gonna help you solve it for everything on the front.
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:50.719
Nothing left unturned.
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:51.360
That's what I like.
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:57.119
And not only you guys doing the architecture, the branding, but now you're also the the image guideline essentially.
00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:01.039
So you're covering, I mean, all aspects of it a lot, even so the back end.
00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:04.480
So it's a lot covered inside this report.
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:06.000
Yeah, that's it.
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:07.199
So yeah, absolutely.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:14.719
So, you know what we're seeing, and this is important, is like, okay, well, what's the ROI on that, right?
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:18.559
Um and uh how do you track that?
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:25.519
And and what's interesting is it, you know, it's not just pure A-B testing, because A B testing is ultimately testing for conversion, right?
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:27.840
But what we want to understand is discoverability.
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:31.920
So tracking sessions, are my sessions incre increasing?
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:35.599
Tracking uh conversion rates, is there a better conversion rate?
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:42.480
Because we've been recommended in in in ways that customers are looking for the product, but also that we're connecting with them and they're converting, right?
00:48:42.639 --> 00:48:46.880
And then your niche rank, which which is like versus my competitors, my niche rank improving.
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:59.760
So if we can see improvements in that, and importantly, while obviously making sure we track uh PPC spend and price, because if someone spends more and drops their price, you're gonna get better rank and sessions, right?
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:08.000
So we we we have that as a variable because we want to make sure that, like, if that's stable, are we seeing increases in sessions, conversion rank, and and niche rank?
00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:13.039
And and overall, with the listings we're tracking, we're seeing notable uplift in that from day zero, right?
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:22.000
So uh, you know, 68% increase in sessions, 13% increase in in niche rank, 18% in improvements in conversion rate, right?
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:30.159
These are the kind of stats we're seeing, and you know, that ROI comes back because now you know people come back to us and they say, Hey, well, not much has changed, you know.
00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:36.960
Cosmo is is is smart enough to know, like, if I'm tracking for these keywords, you know, it's gonna match me to the keywords and stuff.
00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:39.039
Yes, but you know, you've seen that.
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:48.559
Like, if you're not sending all the strong signals across Cosmo and Rufus, so that discoverability conversational layer, you're surfacing in the right way for that.
00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:51.440
If you're not maximized for that, you're missing out on traffic, right?
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:55.519
And that traffic is converting at a higher percentage, higher values.
00:49:55.599 --> 00:50:00.559
So, you know, it it's it people have to understand that it's not just keyword intent anymore.
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:05.039
There's so many, you know, exponential pathways that people can find your product.
00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:08.079
So you've got to send those signals to it to make sure that you are discoverable.
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:09.199
And so that's what we're doing.
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:09.519
Yeah.
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:10.159
Absolutely.
00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:16.320
And what I hear too is like uh there's so many generic brands on there, so many people using AI incorrectly.
00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:25.760
And what I take is not only what the software offers, but the brand storytelling, that unique selling proposition, like what's gonna actually help you stand out.
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:35.199
And even if it doesn't stick right away, at least you have something you can iterate against based on actual data, as opposed to just, you know, even just semantic text.
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:38.239
Because as you mentioned earlier, the game has changed.
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:40.639
So I really like what you presented here, John.
00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:47.920
Yeah, I um a comment I make on that is like we we have the saying, like you know, chat GBT is the new keyword stuffing, right?
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:52.320
Which is which is like anybody who just uses chat GBT, it's just surface level, right?
00:50:52.480 --> 00:51:08.800
You you're gonna get you're gonna get some you know better answers and probably some some better things, but you have to have the the the knowledge of first-party data, like what's actually happening in Amazon, and clearly we can get at that through our API connections, right?
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:20.079
Um, you know, what you know, reverse engineering and understanding what Cosmo really really needs, uh, reviews, customers, all that kind of stuff, but then also making sure that that mapping and the technical stuff is in place, right?
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:25.760
So those are things that that are not easy to replicate, and certainly Chat GPT is not going to do that.
00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:27.199
So you need that information.
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:36.480
And then to your point, like, you know, as marketers, as e-commerce, um, you know, sellers, you know, what are the what are the things that are important?
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:40.800
And clearly brand strategy and positioning are are really important as well, right?
00:51:41.119 --> 00:51:42.159
Differentiator.
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:44.079
John, thanks so much for coming on.
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:47.440
Before I let you go, I'll include all links in the show notes.
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:50.719
But for anybody listening, where where can they find you?
00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:53.360
And anything else you want to share before I let you go?
00:51:53.760 --> 00:52:06.239
Yeah, um, we'll give you the links, but zonguru.com, uh, you know, on the homepage, there's actually a couple of things you can use, you know, a general technology and software for tracking and insights and you know, dashboards, et cetera.
00:52:06.320 --> 00:52:08.320
But you know, the helix is there for you to sign up.
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:08.800
It's free.
00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:12.000
Just sign up and start using it and do the transformations.
00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:13.599
There's credits that you can purchase.
00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:17.920
But we also have a readiness report on there as well, which is it is totally free.
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:20.559
And that will audit and score your current listing.
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:26.480
So if you want to, if you're curious and you just want to check your listing, go ahead and run that um and then you know, see how you score.
00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:30.079
And then based on that, uh jump in and and get the transformations done.
00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:30.880
Heck yeah.
00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:32.880
John, thanks for coming on and sharing the knowledge.
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:35.599
This is really insightful, and I love what you guys are working on.
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:38.000
So we appreciate coming on selling on Giants.
00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:39.039
Thanks.
00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:41.440
That's a wrap for today's session.
00:52:41.679 --> 00:52:48.159
The big takeaway here is that listings are moving from keyword optimization to structured product understanding.
00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:55.119
The brands that adapt to that shift early are gonna have a real advantage over the next 12 to 24 months.
00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:57.920
Appreciate John walking us through all of this.
00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:08.159
If you're listening and this got you thinking about how your listings are structured today, it's worth taking a step back and reassessing what you're actually feeding Amazon.
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:14.079
As always, if you found this helpful, make sure to like, follow, and subscribe wherever you're tuning in.
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:17.360
We'll see you on our next episode of Selling on Giants.
