Timmy Eaton | Choosing a Life with Golden Hours

WEBVTT
00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:19.160
Today we're together with Tim Eaton from This Golden Hour, and you're together with us today as we're doing a dual podcast thing.
00:00:19.479 --> 00:00:21.320
Yes, so excited to do this.
00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:25.240
And I actually want to do kind of an introduction because I just love your stuff.
00:00:25.240 --> 00:00:29.079
So yeah, this is Tim Eaton with this golden hour podcast.
00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:34.920
And I have to say this right at the beginning like Jesper, how many people have told you that you look like Russell Crowe?
00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:37.159
Actually, more than one.
00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:39.159
And I don't wish I don't see it.
00:00:39.159 --> 00:00:40.439
You don't see it, man.
00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.160
I've I feel like I'm talking to Russell Crowe.
00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:46.280
Like, yeah, another the guy from Gladiator.
00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:47.719
Oh, I haven't seen Gladiator.
00:00:48.120 --> 00:00:48.840
No, no, no.
00:00:49.800 --> 00:00:50.679
Or beautiful mind.
00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:53.640
A beautiful mind would be uh uh mad professor.
00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:55.320
I can't see the resemblance.
00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:59.960
I've actually tried looking and been like no, I I really man.
00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:01.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:02.039
Well, it's hitting me.
00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:03.000
It's hitting me, man.
00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:07.399
Well, let me do the intro, and then I want you guys to just kind of go off of that because it's like there's so much.
00:01:07.399 --> 00:01:14.840
So, homeschooling, unschooling family, I guess you guys would say, of four children, ranging from is it 13 to 26, your kids right now?
00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:15.320
Yes.
00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:16.439
At this point, yes.
00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:17.320
Well done.
00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:22.200
Yeah, and then uh, you know, self-proclaimed globe trotters, world travelers, and a nomadic.
00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:23.079
And we want to learn about that.
00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:28.280
I saw that you had interviewed Blake Bowles, who I've also interviewed, and I loved I listened to that episode so good.
00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:30.120
Plant-based, we'll talk about that.
00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:32.840
Unschooling Family and Attachment Parenting, Dr.
00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:33.400
Neufeld.
00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:35.239
So we'll talk about hold on to your kids.
00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:41.000
Jesper is the founder of Better Dad Institute, and I'm interested to learn about what an evolved nest is.
00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:43.640
I think I have the idea, but I that's I thought that was cool.
00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:48.519
And also both Jesper and Cecilia are the hosts of the self-directed podcast.
00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:51.000
And so that's quite the resume there.
00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:55.079
Let's talk about world traveling because that's something that my wife and I think we would like to do.
00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:57.640
Our kids now are 12 to 21.
00:01:57.640 --> 00:01:59.719
We've got six kids, but I don't work from home.
00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:05.079
I teach religious education for my living, and so I'm definitely stuck to the job.
00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:07.239
But I always admire people that are doing that.
00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:08.280
So tell us about that.
00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:09.400
How did that start?
00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:11.879
And then, like, what has it gotten to?
00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:18.919
Denmark has around eight months of winter, it can feel like sometimes.
00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:22.520
So there's uh many reasons and many different versions of the case.
00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:24.039
Actually, the weather is not.
00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.280
No, the weather is not the biggest one.
00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:48.919
We have, as many people, been on vacation together, and I remember in I think it was in 13, we were in southern France at winter, have driven down there in a car, and we were looking out over the ocean, and there was a week left or something, and we looked at each other and said, it this could be nice just to do this, be where we wanted to.
00:02:48.919 --> 00:03:02.599
Um, and now we have been living that life since 18, where we are able to stay where we would like to stay, and travel with the spring or the uh the summer.
00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:09.960
Um, I don't like to travel with the winter as much, but there's many versions of the story.
00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:13.479
I think a lot of people would like to travel a lot.
00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:17.719
We would, so the reasons are not that big a difference.
00:03:17.719 --> 00:03:34.680
We made it happen, and that takes time, and there's so many dialogues we had up front, there's so much fear we had up front, and we had so many problems that never came to be before we started.
00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:41.159
But one of the things that often needs to be ticked off is figuring out how to make an income online.
00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:41.719
Right.
00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:54.439
I used three years on that project where I had a daytime job, worked in the morning, worked in the evening until I built up some clients on the side, and I was like, hey, yes, I dare do it now.
00:03:54.439 --> 00:04:06.280
But when you homeschool, and I think that's maybe the more interesting part of the dialogue, is when you homeschool and are the not-at-home person.
00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:16.120
For example, I'm the dad working in an office, and I can see my family enjoy whatever sun there is during a day.
00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:27.559
I could drive to work in darkness and drive home in darkness, but I could see my wife and kids have been out in the garden in those chilly but sunny hours that were in the middle of the day.
00:04:27.559 --> 00:04:39.719
When you homeschool, it becomes weird that you are forced to live in one place based on the decision of that you want to work in an office.
00:04:39.719 --> 00:04:44.199
So we we asked ourselves, do we want this life and can we change it?
00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:47.079
And then we ended up deciding we wanted to change it.
00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:51.959
And it took time, of course, but um it's really nice.
00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:53.319
So that's awesome.
00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:57.479
So then once you built your business up to a point and you do digital marketing, or what do you do?
00:04:57.719 --> 00:05:09.719
Yeah, it is business strategy and marketing, and my backstory is I have worked 22 years in the media industry in Denmark and got more and more sick and tired of it.
00:05:09.719 --> 00:05:14.279
It don't um work together with my values.
00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:27.719
So I changed in Denmark already my my work to be still from the marketing background, but in in sync with my values, work for nonprofits and charities and stuff like that.
00:05:27.719 --> 00:05:35.479
So it is still using the tools and tricks from the industry, from the marketing, but using it for the greater good.
00:05:35.479 --> 00:05:36.039
Yeah.
00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:40.839
And in your way and allowing you or affording you the way to do the lifestyle you want, which is so cool.
00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:44.759
So, did you guys choose to homeschool before you started doing the traveling?
00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:46.839
Or what was the chronology of things?
00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:48.839
Like when I guess that maybe that's the question.
00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:54.679
And then I want to come back to this idea of like, like, how do you do that anyway, with four kids and for how long you guys have done it?
00:05:54.679 --> 00:05:56.759
Like, how did you hear about homeschooling?
00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:04.919
I'm interested to know about how many homeschoolers there are in Denmark and in Europe in general, because in the US and Canada, it's bursting, you know.
00:06:04.919 --> 00:06:06.759
But like, what is it like where you guys are from?
00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:08.519
And how did you decide to do that?
00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:11.319
So we are from Denmark.
00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:14.199
Well, we left Denmark more than seven years ago.
00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:14.759
Okay.
00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:22.039
Our generation of home educators in Denmark was a very avant-garde first moving generation.
00:06:22.039 --> 00:06:25.159
There were not many homeschoolers when we started homeschooling.
00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:25.639
Yeah.
00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:28.519
As in, most people had never heard about it.
00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:37.159
If they heard about the term, they knew about some American weirdos doing it, or it was extreme religion, something going on.
00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:37.879
Yes.
00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:41.000
And and it was really not a thing.
00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:46.039
And you're asking me how it is here now, and I actually basically can't answer the question.
00:06:46.039 --> 00:06:46.919
I don't live here.
00:06:46.919 --> 00:06:50.679
Um I happen to be here right now as we're recording, but I'm just listening.
00:06:50.679 --> 00:06:52.519
I think it's exploded.
00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:53.639
I don't know.
00:06:53.799 --> 00:06:56.119
Um it's legal though, like it you can do it things.
00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:56.839
It's legal.
00:06:56.839 --> 00:06:58.199
So it's a legal right.
00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:02.599
We have the right in our constitution, so it's very hard to take it away from us.
00:07:02.599 --> 00:07:07.000
We're surrounded with countries where you know we have Sweden where it's very illegal.
00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:12.679
Uh, we have Norway where it's legal, as our neighboring countries, Poland.
00:07:12.679 --> 00:07:14.839
I'm not sure exactly how it is there.
00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:17.479
I think it's legal, but under some restrictions.
00:07:17.479 --> 00:07:20.039
Then you have Germany, very, very illegal.
00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:21.799
Very illegal there?
00:07:22.039 --> 00:07:22.759
Illegal, yeah.
00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:23.559
Is that right?
00:07:23.559 --> 00:07:23.879
Okay.
00:07:24.119 --> 00:07:26.119
Yeah, it's uh the hardest one is Sweden.
00:07:26.119 --> 00:07:28.599
It's very hard to get away with it in Sweden.
00:07:28.599 --> 00:07:34.519
Uh, as in, I've actually never heard a story of a family succeeding with getting away with it in Sweden.
00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:34.919
Wow.
00:07:34.919 --> 00:07:38.199
Whereas in Germany, there are ways around it.
00:07:38.199 --> 00:07:40.759
We have a lot of people from Sweden living here for that reason.
00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:46.119
Finnish culture and Danish culture are parallel, and the language is almost the same.
00:07:46.119 --> 00:07:47.719
You know, you can learn pretty quickly.
00:07:47.719 --> 00:07:52.359
And so it's easy to move to Denmark if you're Swedish, and then you can homeschool.
00:07:52.439 --> 00:07:58.039
So, but but you didn't hear about homeschooling and that philosophy until you were out of uh Denmark.
00:07:58.039 --> 00:07:59.000
Like you heard about it somewhere else.
00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:00.039
Like, how did you guys get into it?
00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:03.799
We started homeschooling way before we left, way before we started traveling.
00:08:03.799 --> 00:08:04.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:17.639
I I can't remember the it was actually because we um had a friend on the same road and she decided to homeschool her kid because he had severe allergies.
00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:24.439
And if you looked at her back then, she was a person who wouldn't have chosen homeschooling.
00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:38.679
But due to the circumstances of her kid being allergic in a way where the system couldn't care for him, she looked into everything very methodically and was like, there's this thing called homeschooling, let's do that.
00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:39.879
Yeah, that's true.
00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:50.600
But it's also true that she happened to have a friend who was a non-schooler, and she was one of the at the time maybe families in Denmark who was homeschooling.
00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:51.720
I mean, I can't remember the numbers.
00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:53.480
It was really, really small.
00:08:54.199 --> 00:08:56.199
So you guys would be pioneers too in Denmark.
00:08:56.439 --> 00:08:59.000
And so we were like second movers, maybe.
00:08:59.000 --> 00:08:59.399
Wow.
00:08:59.399 --> 00:09:11.399
And in our generation, we had a great group of, I don't know what to say, maybe 15, 20 families who knew each other, and we didn't live nearby each other.
00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:23.480
We had to drive cars and you know, we had to put in an effort to see each other, but we were pretty, I mean, lots of us were around and in Copenhagen, and it's not that big big of a city.
00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:28.600
So we could have some sort of you know network and the kids could know other kids who didn't go to school.
00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.319
But it was, I mean, we started out pretty lonely.
00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:33.079
So what year are we talking-ish?
00:09:33.959 --> 00:10:17.069
So that was the year where Scott did not start in school, which is 12.
00:10:17.629 --> 00:10:18.669
Oh, 2012.
00:10:18.669 --> 00:10:19.709
Yeah.
00:10:19.709 --> 00:10:25.709
Okay, so in in Denmark, in that area, it probably was after 2000s where anybody really started homeschooling.
00:10:26.509 --> 00:10:32.990
Homeschooling is mentioned in our constitution, and there are many versions of home education.
00:10:32.990 --> 00:10:40.589
We actually had a minister of education who was homeschooled until seventh grade.
00:10:40.829 --> 00:10:41.469
No way.
00:10:41.870 --> 00:10:47.230
So it's not like we were the only ones, it happens here and there, but it wasn't a movement as such.
00:10:47.549 --> 00:10:49.949
So, like, how did people how was that received by other people?
00:10:49.949 --> 00:10:51.389
Like, what did your families think?
00:10:51.389 --> 00:10:52.509
What did your friends think?
00:10:52.509 --> 00:11:34.029
Here in US and in Canada, it's so common that like unless you were like a you know, second generation homeschool family, like people just see it as weird, and then and then now it's gotten to the point, you know, I I did a I wrote a whole dissertation on home education at the University of Alberta, and like you see the movement from like totally the resurgence of home school home education in the mid-1970s, like in in the US, and then the way it's spread now and after COVID, I mean, it is the fastest growing form of education in US and Canada, but like by far, right now, and it's totally accepted, which is so weird to those of us who started 17 years ago, and especially those that started in the 70s and 80s.
00:11:34.029 --> 00:11:34.829
So, what's it like?
00:11:34.829 --> 00:11:37.309
What what what was the reception like for you guys?
00:11:37.949 --> 00:11:38.669
Not easy.
00:11:38.829 --> 00:11:40.509
No, everything you can imagine.
00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:45.469
All the things we cope with all the things, and and actually we still do.
00:11:45.469 --> 00:11:53.389
I mean, it's not easy, and our government's not supporting support TIP, and it's become a running joke in our family now.
00:11:53.389 --> 00:11:54.509
We don't really care about the government.
00:11:54.509 --> 00:11:57.149
It's just whatever, you know.
00:11:57.149 --> 00:12:03.709
They ask all the stupid questions, it's all the same stupid questions, and they don't understand the full picture, and whatever.
00:12:03.709 --> 00:12:09.469
It's not my job to teach them the full picture, you know, their choice to not is that true for your families too?
00:12:09.549 --> 00:12:10.750
Like you're like you own a both.
00:12:11.309 --> 00:12:12.669
Over the years, they've no, they're fine.
00:12:12.829 --> 00:12:13.870
Yeah, yeah, they're fine.
00:12:13.949 --> 00:12:15.709
I do we get any no?
00:12:15.789 --> 00:12:19.309
I think there's one thing that has changed, and it is us.
00:12:19.309 --> 00:12:51.469
We have changed from, and I think a lot of homeschoolers and unschoolers have this journey when you start down the path of choosing something different than normal society, you are often on the barricades where you're like uh waving the flag, and every time someone you could meet them in the supermarket saying, Oh, so you're not in school today, just actually being polite, then you start a campaign for homeschooling or a defense for homeschooling.
00:12:51.629 --> 00:12:51.949
I know.
00:12:52.429 --> 00:12:54.990
And yeah, and I've reached a point now.
00:12:54.990 --> 00:13:02.909
This I don't know what is it, 13 years down the road for us, where we are more like, hey, they're actually just polite.
00:13:02.909 --> 00:13:05.389
I don't want to have the conversation, they don't want to have the conversation.
00:13:05.389 --> 00:13:07.870
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:08.750 --> 00:13:16.669
But I feel like I mean, I feel like you still have this mainstream thing.
00:13:16.669 --> 00:13:21.149
There is still this idea, and it's hard to get around it.
00:13:21.149 --> 00:13:25.870
We've been living outside of that idea for a very, very long time now.
00:13:25.870 --> 00:13:32.429
That idea about that this has to be, it's like an axiom, the school.
00:13:32.429 --> 00:13:37.949
It's like um and it's still part of our reality.
00:13:37.949 --> 00:13:46.589
There's still this whole measurement of what our children didn't learn because they were un they're they're unschooled, right?
00:13:46.589 --> 00:13:58.669
And I meet that question still quite often and don't say it, but I feel like talking about so yeah, we can talk about what my children didn't learn.
00:13:58.669 --> 00:14:01.949
Do you want to have a conversation about what your children didn't learn?
00:14:01.949 --> 00:14:21.709
And what your children did learn versus exactly like it's like you know, there's the yes, they don't do the school format version of things, that's not the life they've had, and there are lots of things that I also hate it's the kind of it's the linguistics around it, like, oh, you've only been homeschooled, right?
00:14:21.709 --> 00:14:28.669
As in as if it was an inferior version of life, or you've got holes in your knowledge.
00:14:28.669 --> 00:14:33.309
No, I've got a different, I've got a different patchwork.
00:14:33.309 --> 00:14:41.469
It's not like the group of things that some government decided has to be the curriculum.
00:14:41.469 --> 00:14:47.309
That's the only combination of tools in a box that would ever work for anyone.
00:14:47.309 --> 00:14:50.429
It's as if there are just other tools in that box.
00:14:50.750 --> 00:14:52.189
Well, and it's so audacious.
00:14:52.189 --> 00:15:00.750
The assumption that, like, even family to family, like that the purpose that you have for your family is the it aligns exactly with the purpose I have for my family.
00:15:00.750 --> 00:15:07.069
That's so weird that we have like accepted that for so long in societies that like here are the basic things.
00:15:07.069 --> 00:15:14.909
Sure, there's things that we share in common, but the idea that like my values should be your values, so why can't how come your kids haven't learned this or that?
00:15:14.909 --> 00:15:21.069
And it's like, what a weird, audacious assumption that uh I wanted to match what your family does.
00:15:21.069 --> 00:15:24.829
It's like, and so that's what I wanted to ask you guys why did you why did you pull the trigger?
00:15:24.829 --> 00:15:26.429
Why did you say, no, let's do this?
00:15:26.429 --> 00:15:27.629
Like, we like this lifestyle.
00:15:27.629 --> 00:15:29.469
What was it that appealed to you guys so much?
00:15:29.469 --> 00:15:32.990
If somebody were to say, like, well, what do you what were your main motivations to start?
00:15:32.990 --> 00:15:35.949
How have those motivations evolved over the years?
00:15:36.350 --> 00:15:41.949
It was a slippery slope because it's easy to pull the cancer cart, right?
00:15:41.949 --> 00:15:47.309
I mean, it's part of the story that I had a severe cancer in 2010.
00:15:47.309 --> 00:15:58.589
And when I came out of that, I had been away from my children for a long time, from our children for a long time, and um, we didn't know for how long I would survive after treatment.
00:15:58.589 --> 00:16:04.589
So it was this, you know, maybe they should just have as much time with their mom as they can have at this point.
00:16:04.589 --> 00:16:06.029
Yeah, this golden hour.
00:16:06.110 --> 00:16:07.469
That's the name of this podcast, right?
00:16:07.469 --> 00:16:08.189
This golden hour.
00:16:08.189 --> 00:16:09.789
You have to see a certain amount of time.
00:16:10.669 --> 00:16:15.309
It was just a question of simple it came down.
00:16:15.309 --> 00:16:19.870
The final decision of taking them out, it was this was institutions, so they were really small.
00:16:19.870 --> 00:16:23.870
It's before school years, so this was kindergarten nursery.
00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:33.309
Basically, we had a division of labor that my in-laws would pick them up once a week, and my husband would do it twice a week, and I would do it the other twice a week.
00:16:33.309 --> 00:16:39.629
I was weak after the cancer, and then a lot there came a big snowfall, and I was like, I can't walk that snow.
00:16:39.629 --> 00:16:42.269
Why do I have to walk all the way to get my kids?
00:16:42.269 --> 00:16:43.709
I wanted to be with them, obviously.
00:16:43.709 --> 00:16:46.509
I that's all I wanted after six months in the hospital.
00:16:46.509 --> 00:16:48.589
Yeah, can't they just stay home?
00:16:48.589 --> 00:16:50.669
Then I don't have to walk all that stuff.
00:16:50.669 --> 00:16:51.629
I can't get through that snow.
00:16:51.629 --> 00:16:52.909
I have some muscle mass.
00:16:52.909 --> 00:16:54.909
Yeah, why don't they just stay with me?
00:16:54.909 --> 00:16:57.230
Why do we even take them out of the house in the morning?
00:16:57.230 --> 00:17:04.350
That so that of course the idea had been we'd been playing with it, but it felt weird and I was weak, and did we have the energy?
00:17:04.350 --> 00:17:07.950
All the things, and we had the threat of the cancer also, you know.
00:17:07.950 --> 00:17:10.670
We didn't know, am I going back into hospital?
00:17:10.670 --> 00:17:13.390
But then there was that snowfall at the end.
00:17:13.390 --> 00:17:15.309
It was like, no, forget it.
00:17:15.309 --> 00:17:17.069
This was it doesn't make sense.
00:17:17.309 --> 00:17:18.350
Yeah, so that makes sense.
00:17:18.350 --> 00:17:20.029
It was just kind of like common sense stuff, right?
00:17:20.029 --> 00:17:23.069
Like, I don't want to like, why are we doing this when it's like so hard?
00:17:23.150 --> 00:17:31.309
And I just want to be with my kids, and it wasn't like a big decision, it was big, but it wasn't long term because there was no long term in our minds.
00:17:31.390 --> 00:17:35.470
It was very and you weren't worried about their like like academics per se.
00:17:35.470 --> 00:17:40.829
I'm saying, like, because that's what a lot of people are, you know, put off because they're like, Well, how does this work out?
00:17:40.829 --> 00:17:45.310
And I mean, at least in the cultures here in North America, they're so put off by that came later.
00:17:45.550 --> 00:17:52.430
So we had at the time, we had uh we had a three-year-old, we had a six-year-old, and we had a nine-year-old.
00:17:52.430 --> 00:17:54.910
And the nine-year-old wanted to stay in school.
00:17:54.910 --> 00:18:02.509
She was in a democratic school, it was a beautiful place, and she'd just been through all the shock of me being sick, and she liked being out.
00:18:02.509 --> 00:18:09.630
It was not about academics, it was about friends playing the guitar and yeah, yeah, talking.
00:18:09.630 --> 00:18:11.550
And it was a very, very free school.
00:18:11.550 --> 00:18:14.670
She spent a lot of time reading novels and just hanging out.
00:18:14.670 --> 00:18:15.710
It was great.
00:18:15.710 --> 00:18:17.310
Um, so she stayed.
00:18:17.310 --> 00:18:21.470
Uh, the two little ones we took out of nursery kindergarten.
00:18:21.470 --> 00:18:24.830
Um, it was like an eye-opening thing to have cancer.
00:18:24.830 --> 00:18:26.269
Like, why are we even doing this?
00:18:26.269 --> 00:18:33.710
So, and then we have to wait a while because uh it's three years later, two years later.
00:18:33.710 --> 00:18:34.430
Two years later.
00:18:34.430 --> 00:18:36.430
Maybe two years later, maybe maybe not.
00:18:36.430 --> 00:18:38.029
I can't get the timeline right.
00:18:38.029 --> 00:18:40.590
I was sick in 10.
00:18:40.590 --> 00:18:46.350
So in 11 they got out of that, and in 12, yeah, so it's about two years later.
00:18:46.350 --> 00:18:52.350
Um, our son was supposed to start school, and he did not want to start school basically.
00:18:52.350 --> 00:18:54.350
And we had friends who homeschooled.
00:18:54.350 --> 00:19:00.190
Or yeah, we yeah, we did because of the whole before school thing.
00:19:00.190 --> 00:19:08.190
We were in the home family life groups, and we started to know people who were homeschooling, and it wasn't that weird any longer.
00:19:08.190 --> 00:19:18.509
And the oldest one was still in school, but the second child was very, you know, he was very polite and nice about it, saying, I don't think this is for me.
00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:25.710
You know, it could be that all the other kids enjoy, he's very, very he could have been Canadian, let me say it because he was as polite.
00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:32.910
Yeah, he's our nicest child, and he was nice and polite, being six years old, not wanted to start school.
00:19:32.910 --> 00:19:38.430
Just I just don't think this is just not my type of thing.
00:19:38.670 --> 00:19:40.430
And this is all still in in Denmark, right?
00:19:40.430 --> 00:19:40.990
This is before you.
00:19:41.390 --> 00:19:45.550
We were just living the regular life in Denmark, except I was taking I was a stay-at-home mom.
00:19:45.870 --> 00:19:48.750
Yeah, and you hadn't moved, obviously, Jesper, to like working at home.
00:19:48.750 --> 00:19:49.550
No, no, no.
00:19:49.550 --> 00:19:50.830
Everything was the face.
00:19:51.310 --> 00:19:56.350
I was at home with the kids, everything we had a house and garden, and you know, it was just everything quite normal.
00:19:56.670 --> 00:20:04.830
We had started exploring traveling because sure our son, who is now 13, he came as a surprise after the cancer.
00:20:04.830 --> 00:20:20.269
And in Denmark, the rules are if you have a wife who gets a child and she still has a deadly disease, then you, as the man, can take full paternity leave to make sure that she's cared for.
00:20:20.269 --> 00:20:27.950
And I got into a little argument with my boss, who was super annoying and only wanted to give me a little part extra time.
00:20:27.950 --> 00:20:37.070
And I was like, okay, I go in, read the rules, and then I went back to her and say, okay, I will just stay away the whole year instead of just two more weeks.
00:20:37.070 --> 00:20:41.790
I knew I would get fired when I got back after it, but uh, it was worth it.
00:20:41.790 --> 00:20:43.550
Amen.
00:20:43.550 --> 00:20:51.710
And we we decided to just get the most out of that year, and we were nervous travelers.
00:20:51.710 --> 00:21:00.509
We bought a car and went on a hundred-day road trip throughout Europe with a four-month-old baby, and it was fantastic.
00:21:00.830 --> 00:21:02.670
And the other kids.
00:21:04.670 --> 00:21:05.230
That was your last time.
00:21:05.230 --> 00:21:09.390
And then I was at home with them the year.
00:21:09.390 --> 00:21:16.990
I started back at work, got fired, needed to find a new job, and then came the summer, and Stolton didn't want to start school.
00:21:16.990 --> 00:21:28.670
So, and it's it is a paradigm shift in many ways when it comes from the child and not from the parents, because you it feels weird.
00:21:28.670 --> 00:21:37.390
It is um, you need to start asking yourself all these questions about why not do the normal kind of things.
00:21:37.390 --> 00:21:42.190
Everyone goes to school and get out, go to university, and that's how life is.
00:21:42.190 --> 00:21:46.350
You have been like drilled in, that's life, and totally go that way.
00:21:46.350 --> 00:21:55.310
But we we got the bumps on the way in the terms of the cancer and a surprise baby who is now 13 years old and a fantastic young man.
00:21:55.310 --> 00:21:59.550
Oh, and then we started asking more and more questions.
00:21:59.550 --> 00:22:02.430
And I don't think we really have stopped asking.
00:22:02.910 --> 00:22:12.029
It's also part of the reason for the traveling, was like once you start home educating, and then if you go all the way and you start unschooling, it it all unravels.
00:22:12.029 --> 00:22:17.950
And it's not like it's not like we're not extreme, I would say.
00:22:17.950 --> 00:22:20.509
But maybe that's just from my point of view.
00:22:20.750 --> 00:22:21.230
No, I know.
00:22:21.230 --> 00:22:28.590
It's like once you once you've been doing something for a while, it looks like that to others, but you're just going, dude, we're just like making decisions and doing things naturally.
00:22:28.590 --> 00:22:30.830
And how would when people talk about that a little bit?
00:22:30.830 --> 00:22:43.790
Like when people distinguish that people always want to distinguish homeschooling and unschooling, and you guys say unschooling, and I see strands of all of it, but like how do you differ maybe not even differentiate, but how do you kind of define unschooling?
00:22:43.790 --> 00:22:48.750
Like basically, what is what is education look like in in the way that you guys view it?
00:22:49.230 --> 00:22:59.710
So you did the full introduction of who we are and what we're doing, but you got the other podcast that we're making, the one that's called The Ladies Fixing the World, that I'm hosting without Jesper.
00:22:59.710 --> 00:23:01.550
It's just all about unschooling.
00:23:01.710 --> 00:23:02.269
That's awesome.
00:23:02.590 --> 00:23:08.509
Unschooling only, very long, long format where I talk with wise women who are also unschoolers.
00:23:08.750 --> 00:23:10.670
Well, we'll put that in the show notes for sure, though.
00:23:10.670 --> 00:23:11.310
That's awesome.
00:23:11.310 --> 00:23:11.790
Cool.
00:23:11.950 --> 00:23:15.870
So, and defining unschooling can be quite complicated.
00:23:15.870 --> 00:23:22.990
If you go to season two, episode one, I'm pretty sure that one is a full two hours about how to define unschooling.
00:23:23.230 --> 00:23:23.550
Cool.
00:23:23.870 --> 00:23:43.710
But I mean, the basic structure, a simple way of defining it, is to say that when you unschool, there is no there's no curriculum, there is no set, there's no attachment to any outcome, especially not academically.
00:23:43.710 --> 00:23:54.750
So the children we respect that the hours in this life where their heart is beating and they're breathing air belong to them.
00:23:54.750 --> 00:23:58.110
So I'm not here to tell them what to do.
00:23:58.110 --> 00:24:05.950
I'm not here to define what makes sense for them and what they should do or should what they should learn.
00:24:05.950 --> 00:24:06.750
I don't know.
00:24:06.750 --> 00:24:13.310
And I'm um it's about trusting the process, it's about knowing that learning happens all the time.
00:24:13.310 --> 00:24:17.230
It's very, very hard to stop people from learning.
00:24:17.230 --> 00:24:19.150
I'm learning right now.
00:24:19.150 --> 00:24:34.990
Um and just trusting that a child growing up over those 10 years, let's say from six to sixteen, if they are not in school, they have a lot of hours on their hands that they wouldn't have had they been in school.
00:24:34.990 --> 00:24:43.710
Yes, and we trust that whatever they choose to do with those hours will be as good an education, it will just be different.
00:24:43.710 --> 00:24:52.350
But they will be 16 years old, ready for next chapter, standing on a different cliff, but it's still a cliff.
00:24:52.509 --> 00:24:55.550
Yeah, it's not quicksand, I guess.
00:24:56.110 --> 00:25:01.310
It's a called quicksand, the sand, but the stable and it's stable.
00:25:01.310 --> 00:25:05.950
And so that's I think that's what unschooling is.
00:25:05.950 --> 00:25:09.230
There's no demands like that.
00:25:09.230 --> 00:25:17.550
And we keep questioning our ideas about what should be and and how things should unfold.
00:25:17.550 --> 00:25:20.750
And whenever there's a value or a judgment, we have to stop.
00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:24.910
We the parents and think about it and maybe have a discussion with the children about it.
00:25:24.910 --> 00:25:27.550
You know, I grew up in a different way from you.
00:25:27.550 --> 00:25:33.550
To me, the world looks like this, and I have to, and now I'm thinking this or feeling this.
00:25:33.550 --> 00:25:39.150
I have this reaction to our life as it is, or your life as it is, or this situation.
00:25:39.150 --> 00:25:42.509
Can we unpack this together and figure out what's up and down?
00:25:42.830 --> 00:25:45.230
I grew up in Chicago, like that's where I grew up my whole life.
00:25:45.230 --> 00:25:49.950
And and uh I went to a high school that was pretty like academic, I guess.
00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:53.630
Like it was just kind of a that kind of area in the northwest suburbs of Chicago.
00:25:53.630 --> 00:26:05.150
And I'm just listening, I'm just in my head listening to people that would just hear this kind of thing, you know, especially we've been homeschooling for 17 plus years, and they would just be like, Well, okay, that's awesome, but how do you get into university?
00:26:05.150 --> 00:26:16.190
And it's just like what Jesper was saying, like, there's this idea of like this is the way to do things, and it's not necessarily so not that you have to respond to people, but I'm saying, like, how do you guys feel that?
00:26:16.190 --> 00:26:18.509
Like, you're just the future of your children.
00:26:19.230 --> 00:26:19.870
Yes.
00:26:19.870 --> 00:26:32.830
So I would start with sharing a dialogue I had with my father when I chose to focus on being a creative young man instead of going to university.
00:26:32.830 --> 00:26:43.710
And he said, I will be happy if you take the high school, but then it would be easier for you if you decide to choose something else later.
00:26:43.710 --> 00:26:55.150
But when I started, oh, what he actually said was the work I have now, there was no education for it when I was a young man.
00:26:55.150 --> 00:26:57.630
And the same for me.
00:26:57.630 --> 00:27:06.670
I ended up in a career where there was no university uh to do online marketing or understand uh working with the web.
00:27:06.670 --> 00:27:07.790
That's a great point.
00:27:07.790 --> 00:27:18.269
The IT university in Denmark started the year I had my first full-time job inside the media industry as an online web editor.
00:27:18.269 --> 00:27:20.509
So it was kind of weird.
00:27:20.509 --> 00:27:27.470
I actually had to ask myself one point do I want to take an education that takes five years to get a job I already have?
00:27:27.470 --> 00:27:27.950
Yes.
00:27:27.950 --> 00:27:30.110
That's that's so stupid.
00:27:30.110 --> 00:27:53.230
So, with that, I'm saying we don't necessarily know what our kids' future will be, but what we do know is that they have they my goal is that they as persons have a drive and motivation to go towards what they want and then uh go over the hurdles they will meet.
00:27:53.230 --> 00:27:56.910
Yeah, for example, I have not been in university.
00:27:56.910 --> 00:28:03.070
For me, it holds no merits or golden stars at all.
00:28:03.070 --> 00:28:06.670
I couldn't care less if you have been to university or not.
00:28:06.670 --> 00:28:09.390
It's not in my life, as an important part.
00:28:09.390 --> 00:28:10.590
I love it, man.
00:28:10.590 --> 00:28:18.350
But my children, both of the two who are now 17 and 19, they're talking about they want to go to university.
00:28:18.350 --> 00:28:24.750
And then they're actually taking the steps needed, whatever that may be.
00:28:24.750 --> 00:28:32.670
Right now, they are looking at taking what equals the high school, but just online, because that is what they want.
00:28:32.670 --> 00:28:35.230
And I'm asking them, are you sure you want that?
00:28:35.230 --> 00:28:41.230
Because you can actually study whatever you want to study outside the format of university.
00:28:41.230 --> 00:28:46.910
And we come from a country, we come from a country where they get the education for free.
00:28:46.910 --> 00:28:48.990
You pay for it through your taxes, of course.
00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:51.550
But it's free at the point of receiving it, you know.
00:28:51.710 --> 00:29:00.110
When you that's kind of like when Canada talks about it's free healthcare, and I'm like, that is the that is not that is not it's an exchange.
00:29:00.350 --> 00:29:03.150
You should ask yourself if you move into a country for one day.
00:29:47.660 --> 00:29:49.980
Yeah, I mean, and you can do it, yeah.
00:29:50.380 --> 00:29:53.180
Well, no, I I Jesper, I love what you said about your dad.
00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:57.420
Like that that's just like what I am doing had no connection to that.
00:29:57.420 --> 00:30:20.460
And so, and when I hear about you guys traveling, and I want to hear more about your traveling here, but like the wide exposure and education that that is, you know, people people always try to confine education to a certain definition or a certain place, but like, man, I think of like the confidence that your kids must have knowing how to navigate travel and the education that comes from that, and you're not just reading about something, you're living in those areas, you're tasting their foods.
00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:24.140
You know, I can just tell that you feel confident that, like, we're not worried.
00:30:24.140 --> 00:30:28.140
They've been loved, they've been nurtured, and all of that is more important.
00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:35.180
And when it comes to academics, that's just a like a blessing as a byproduct of just having a good life.
00:30:35.580 --> 00:30:35.820
Yeah.
00:30:36.060 --> 00:30:40.300
See, when you ask questions, I answer from an ideal.
00:30:40.300 --> 00:30:41.900
Have I been worried?
00:30:41.900 --> 00:30:43.180
Yes, indeed.
00:30:43.180 --> 00:30:47.580
Have I had this uh nights where I couldn't sleep because I was like, how will it go?
00:30:47.580 --> 00:30:48.780
Have we ruined their life?
00:30:48.780 --> 00:30:49.900
Yes, of course.
00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:54.140
But I answer from my beliefs in this that we are doing.
00:30:54.140 --> 00:30:59.500
But oh yes, the fear is real, the confusion, all the long hours of talking about.
00:30:59.980 --> 00:31:00.780
Your parents, man.
00:31:00.780 --> 00:31:02.540
Your parents, of course.
00:31:02.540 --> 00:31:04.140
And you care about your kids.
00:31:05.180 --> 00:31:06.780
A different shot at this one.
00:31:06.780 --> 00:31:09.900
Yeah, because I think there's another thing to talk about.
00:31:09.900 --> 00:31:23.260
Unschooling is a choice we made to respect our children's freedom and individuality and entry path to this life.
00:31:23.260 --> 00:31:31.500
Trusting that they should grow up with unconditional love and all the support we can give them.
00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:38.300
Exploring, being playful, figuring out who they are, where they are, what what's up with this life.
00:31:38.300 --> 00:31:46.460
And when when they are young, now we have two who are older teenagers, and when they're at that point, think there's a shift.
00:31:46.460 --> 00:31:49.020
Uh, you have a handful of children.
00:31:49.020 --> 00:31:51.020
You've seen that as well.
00:31:51.020 --> 00:31:53.180
And it something happens.
00:31:53.180 --> 00:32:02.140
And where I could go on the barricades and start burning things and throwing things is to fight for that freedom for younger children.
00:32:02.300 --> 00:32:02.540
Yeah.
00:32:02.860 --> 00:32:14.860
Because we are really crushing their lives by stealing all the hours and telling them what to do and telling them whether they did it well or not, and crushing their self-esteem, splitting families apart, all these things.
00:32:14.860 --> 00:32:16.940
I don't think we could agree more.
00:32:16.940 --> 00:32:30.380
But now we're talking about high school and university, and to me, that is so different, especially if the children have been home educated, preferably from my point of view, unschooled.
00:32:30.460 --> 00:32:30.780
Yeah.
00:32:31.100 --> 00:32:37.580
Because then you have to think about the concept of voluntary education.
00:32:37.580 --> 00:32:43.740
So the whole idea of unschooling is also based on everything is voluntary.
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:47.580
You do what you want to do, you do things that make sense to you to do.
00:32:47.580 --> 00:32:50.540
You do things to cooperate, not to comply.
00:32:50.540 --> 00:32:52.300
That's very different.
00:32:52.300 --> 00:33:03.660
And now, if you take a big education because you want to, it comes from inside the child, not from inside the parents or inside the culture.
00:33:03.660 --> 00:33:04.780
Of course, it does as well.
00:33:04.780 --> 00:33:07.900
I mean, this is all a big fat mix of everything.
00:33:07.900 --> 00:33:08.860
Yes, of course.
00:33:08.860 --> 00:33:20.940
But when you are 17 years old and you choose, actually, I want a university degree, not to get a fancy job, but for funsies.
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:24.380
I want to study this thing because I'm interested.
00:33:24.380 --> 00:33:29.500
I find it very interesting, and I would like to focus on it for five years.
00:33:29.500 --> 00:33:34.060
And in order to get to the university level of stuff, I have to do this.
00:33:34.060 --> 00:33:41.020
I'm saying high school, not it's not the same now, it's not the same systems over there, but it's an equivalent of high school.
00:33:41.020 --> 00:33:43.020
You have to do that, otherwise, you're not getting in.
00:33:43.020 --> 00:33:49.980
So, and then they voluntarily choose, I will do this because I want to get there.
00:33:49.980 --> 00:33:52.460
That's completely different.
00:33:52.460 --> 00:34:07.020
It has nothing to do with pushing a 10-year-old to do trigonometry when he doesn't feel like it, telling him he's a bad person with some combination of letters and giving him a little tablet if he can't sit still.
00:34:07.020 --> 00:34:09.500
That's not a fun tablet, that's like a on your tongue thing.
00:34:09.500 --> 00:34:09.900
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:14.300
It's just like we can't even talk.
00:34:14.300 --> 00:34:19.340
Why are we using the same words, school education stuff, about these situations?
00:34:19.340 --> 00:34:25.820
Because the first one, in many cases, I'd even say there's some sort of violence to it.
00:34:25.820 --> 00:34:30.780
And the kids have no freedom, they have no way of speaking up.
00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:36.460
Yet you have an entire culture full of stories of how kids hate school.
00:34:36.940 --> 00:34:37.340
We all agree.
00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:38.539
Like, like full, yeah.
00:34:38.780 --> 00:34:40.380
Read Calvin and Hobbes, you know.
00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:43.340
Read, you know, just read and see all the things.
00:34:43.500 --> 00:34:48.059
If it has to do with childhood, well, no, I teach I teach every day and I hear it, I hear it right from their voice.
00:34:49.099 --> 00:34:50.780
We can't wait for vacation.
00:34:50.780 --> 00:34:52.220
It makes no sense.
00:34:52.220 --> 00:34:58.220
The teacher is the monster, all of these things, we all agree, yet we do it to our own children.
00:34:58.460 --> 00:35:00.860
Yeah, because we don't trust the process, like you're saying.
00:35:00.860 --> 00:35:15.659
And and then another, like just very cultural real thing is if they've been nurtured that way in those primary years, I call it the primary years, and they've been loved and exposed to things and read to and read and just pursue what they want and their hearts' desires.
00:35:15.659 --> 00:35:19.500
And then they get to the high school years when they start going, I'm really interested in this.
00:35:19.500 --> 00:35:29.019
The thing that's it's inevitable is this worry, like Jesper said he was talking in ideals, and I get that, but like you got to pay for stuff and you got to make money.
00:35:29.019 --> 00:35:41.900
And so many people pursue a job because it on the other end, it's gonna pay them and then provide because not all couples start out saying, We're hoping to have seven kids, or we're hoping to have two kids.
00:35:41.900 --> 00:35:48.860
You know, a lot of them say, We'll take it a child at a time and see how it works, or a lot of them say, No, we're not doing more than two, or whatever they say.
00:35:48.860 --> 00:35:52.860
So, what about the money concern and just providing for a family?
00:35:52.860 --> 00:35:58.140
And is the ideal that our children just don't worry about that and it'll take care of itself?
00:35:58.140 --> 00:36:04.940
Or is it like, no, you do have to be more deliberate and intentional about actually how am I gonna make money?
00:36:05.260 --> 00:36:07.020
Uh also the kids.
00:36:07.580 --> 00:36:08.860
Yeah, good point.
00:36:08.860 --> 00:36:09.580
Both.
00:36:09.580 --> 00:36:15.740
And I've actually listened to your episode that you guys had about the course you have about money and harmony, and uh fun.
00:36:15.740 --> 00:36:22.220
And you actually answer some of that there, that relationship with money and finances, and yeah, there's a whole philosophy behind it.
00:36:22.220 --> 00:36:30.860
I know that's a big question, but like that's a that's that is a very common concern, not only amongst families that are doing traditional schooling, but also homeschool families.
00:36:30.860 --> 00:36:32.700
Like, how are they gonna survive?
00:36:32.700 --> 00:36:39.900
You know, a lot of people don't get into homeschooling because they're like, I like the ideas and the philosophies and the values, but man, how are they gonna get a diploma?
00:36:39.900 --> 00:36:43.740
And how are they gonna get into university and how are they gonna get the job that pays?
00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:49.420
So, in my experience, lots of people fail after school.
00:36:49.820 --> 00:36:53.900
Lots of people don't pursue what they were uh studying anyway.
00:36:54.060 --> 00:37:00.940
No, I'm just saying the school is not actually a guarantee that you'll even get a job.
00:37:01.260 --> 00:37:01.980
Great point.
00:37:02.300 --> 00:37:11.420
The idea that the risk is bigger for home educated children, you might have that idea in your mind, but if you look at the statistics, it's not actually better.
00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:12.140
Exactly.
00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:19.740
So, I mean, you don't have to so we have to take those two things, make them separate.
00:37:19.740 --> 00:37:26.540
Yes, we home educate, yes, we worry about how will our children pay for their lives.
00:37:26.540 --> 00:37:29.180
I worry about how I will pay for my life.
00:37:29.180 --> 00:37:34.380
I mean, we all have to find a way with this, but these two things have nothing to do with each other.
00:37:34.380 --> 00:37:36.780
I would have worried about that anyway.
00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:43.260
And and and the fact that they're home educated doesn't make the problem bigger or smaller, it's the same problem.
00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:45.180
And so that's one thing.
00:37:45.180 --> 00:37:48.860
And then you've also said, and how do they get into university?
00:37:48.860 --> 00:37:53.340
Most schools on this planet have rules for this.
00:37:53.340 --> 00:37:56.140
What do you need to start in our school?
00:37:56.140 --> 00:38:01.580
Yeah, and they also have most of them have some sort of okay.
00:38:01.580 --> 00:38:04.860
So if you don't have that, what do you do?
00:38:04.860 --> 00:38:12.940
If they don't have that written down anywhere, you know, the rules to get in and the plan B kind of thing, you can always call them.
00:38:12.940 --> 00:38:19.100
They have student counselors or whatever the word is in English, and call them, say, you know, I'd really like to study at your school.
00:38:19.100 --> 00:38:23.660
Uh I don't have the things that you say I need to have because I lived a different life.
00:38:23.660 --> 00:38:25.260
Happens to some people.
00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:28.140
Some people move to a different country, they have the Roman papers.
00:38:28.140 --> 00:38:30.940
Some people come from war zones, the papers burned.
00:38:30.940 --> 00:38:32.700
I mean, lots of things could happen.
00:38:32.700 --> 00:38:37.180
So I mean, they've seen it before, and then you take it from there.
00:38:37.180 --> 00:38:39.980
But if you want to get in, there's a way in somehow.
00:38:39.980 --> 00:38:41.500
You just need to find it.
00:38:41.500 --> 00:39:06.860
And I'm saying, just now, um, after two and a half years of looking for a way in, being extremely frustrated to the point of banging my head into a fictive wall, and and and a little bit of screaming and shouting, and and a lot more frustration and and uh giving up and trying again many times.
00:39:06.860 --> 00:39:13.100
Uh, and and meanwhile the problem riped, and uh maybe I was just trying, I don't know, whatever.
00:39:13.100 --> 00:39:18.140
I maybe I didn't trust the process enough because when it finally happened, it was quite easy, actually.
00:39:18.140 --> 00:39:20.620
It's just a question of talking to the right people at the right.
00:39:21.100 --> 00:39:21.660
Who was that for?
00:39:21.660 --> 00:39:23.020
Who what was that for?
00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:30.140
So the two middle ones now both are starting this preparation course that is kind of like high school.
00:39:30.140 --> 00:39:30.700
I see.
00:39:30.700 --> 00:39:31.820
So that they can get it.
00:39:31.820 --> 00:39:35.340
There's it you can get into university without that here.
00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:38.620
But it's helpful.
00:39:38.860 --> 00:39:40.060
It's not easy.
00:39:40.060 --> 00:39:42.220
It really isn't, especially if you're young.
00:39:42.220 --> 00:39:47.020
So we have like a plan B way of getting in, but it's mostly thought-free.
00:39:47.020 --> 00:39:57.900
If if if you're after 50 years old, you want to change career and you want to go into university, then maybe you do have all that knowledge and life experience that makes you ready to have a university degree you never had.
00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:03.900
But if you're 17 and you want to start, you could, but it's harder.
00:40:03.900 --> 00:40:05.900
So they're doing that prep thing.
00:40:05.900 --> 00:40:10.140
And to get them into the prep thing was quite the journey.
00:40:10.620 --> 00:40:23.260
What I'm feeling this whole time is like there really are like country to country, like I mean, there's similarities that tie us all together, but I love I just your guys' perspective and and your perspective having traveled is like just opening my mind to things.
00:40:23.580 --> 00:40:29.740
One of the things people forget from around universities or any education is it is a business.
00:40:29.740 --> 00:40:31.020
They're earning money.
00:40:31.020 --> 00:40:32.700
What is that product?
00:40:32.700 --> 00:40:36.540
That product is taking a student from start to finish.
00:40:36.540 --> 00:40:45.820
A lot of the encouragement structures for school is they get something when a child starts, and then they get something when a child succeeds.
00:40:45.820 --> 00:40:48.300
So they actually also want you to succeed.
00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:54.380
The whole system is set up for them actually wanting students and wanting the students to not drop out.
00:40:54.380 --> 00:40:56.460
They don't earn money on the dropouts.
00:40:56.460 --> 00:41:00.460
So there is ways to come in, etc.
00:41:00.460 --> 00:41:05.100
I had a point around the whole homeschooling, unschooling thing.
00:41:05.100 --> 00:41:20.140
I've started to be more precise around it, and I actually have started not advising against homeschooling, but I'm saying it like this to ask people to stop up and think things through.
00:41:20.140 --> 00:41:29.500
Because one of the things I can see that can be a challenge and harmful with homeschooling is that you, as the parent, take over the role as a teacher.
00:41:29.500 --> 00:41:45.900
So if you are not careful about am I now a parent or a teacher, and whose curriculum am I trying to enforce here, then you can ruin the part of your job as a parent that is most important, which is the connection you have with your child.
00:41:45.900 --> 00:41:58.380
So I find it necessary to say if you're a homeschooler or plan to homeschool, just stop up and look at are you in any way harming your relationship with your child doing it?
00:41:58.380 --> 00:42:00.620
Are you in forcing them to sit down?
00:42:00.620 --> 00:42:03.180
Is it getting skewed from being a parent?
00:42:03.180 --> 00:42:08.220
Because I can see that happen in some ways and structures of homeschooling.
00:42:08.220 --> 00:42:15.420
That said, I think homeschooling is a way better choice than school because you do not make the separation.
00:42:15.420 --> 00:42:19.420
And then I've also been thinking about curriculums.
00:42:19.420 --> 00:42:36.940
I just get more and more fascinated by how I also, in my own childhood, my own upbringing, but also when we started with our oldest who went to school, I never thought about what curriculum is she's being presented with.
00:42:36.940 --> 00:42:40.700
Why do have they chosen the different things that that is being important?
00:42:41.180 --> 00:42:41.980
Yeah, neither did I.
00:42:42.700 --> 00:42:44.380
It was just like that's how it is.
00:42:44.380 --> 00:42:45.180
Yeah, that's what you do.
00:42:45.180 --> 00:42:47.340
Now I I question it.
00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:59.900
And also, if I was not out of an unschooling family like we are, and we did homeschooling, that's like based on whose curriculum, whose values are driving that, like, right?
00:43:00.060 --> 00:43:01.260
Like that's a great question.
00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:09.820
And that goes back to what you guys are saying about question everything, because because some people could be could be like, that sounds like so tiresome to question everything.
00:43:09.820 --> 00:43:14.860
But then if you don't, then you are relegated to the you know, you have to accept what is then.
00:43:14.860 --> 00:43:22.220
And when you don't want to and you haven't done anything about that, because if you haven't asked the questions, then you kind of are you kind of have to succumb to what is.
00:43:22.220 --> 00:43:26.060
And if you don't want to do that, then you got to ask some questions and leave your comfort zone.
00:43:26.300 --> 00:43:33.660
And one of the challenges is also that our world is so big and we don't have these smaller attachment villages or where we lived in the neighborhood.
00:43:33.660 --> 00:43:45.100
Not saying everything was sped up back in the days, but I would have known the school teacher in a small local community, I would have known her values, I would have eaten dinner with her, etc.
00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:49.340
Yeah, more likely though, more likely than the way it is now, at least around here for sure.
00:43:49.340 --> 00:43:52.620
And that actually leads into like you guys have hung out with Dr.
00:43:52.620 --> 00:43:54.060
Newfeld, haven't you?
00:43:54.460 --> 00:43:59.340
Yeah, I have the pleasure of uh having been working together with him for a year.
00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:15.020
What happened was we had him on a podcast, and then I looked at his website afterwards and was thinking his values and what he teaches and his book aligns pretty good with how we are living our life and what is important for us.
00:44:15.020 --> 00:44:23.580
And I was thinking, okay, why don't I use my my powers inside marketing for something good?
00:44:23.580 --> 00:44:30.060
So now I'm working with him to get his things more out, as it's quite powerful.
00:44:30.060 --> 00:44:31.180
It's super interesting.
00:44:31.580 --> 00:44:35.580
I don't remember how long ago, but I mean it was near the beginning where we read his Hold On to Your Kids.
00:44:35.580 --> 00:44:38.540
It resonated so much, especially with my spouse, then she put me onto it.
00:44:38.540 --> 00:44:41.740
And I've talked to so many people that uh that love his work.
00:44:41.740 --> 00:44:45.020
And doesn't this also kind of play into this idea?
00:44:45.020 --> 00:44:48.540
Like I was reading a little bit about it, but not in depth about the evolved nest.
00:44:48.540 --> 00:44:49.100
Uh, who is it?
00:44:49.100 --> 00:44:49.500
Who is it?
00:44:49.500 --> 00:44:53.020
Darcia Narvaez or Yeah, Darcia Narvaez.
00:44:53.180 --> 00:44:53.260
Yeah.
00:44:53.420 --> 00:44:54.620
Yeah, like what is that?
00:44:54.620 --> 00:45:01.660
I can imagine, and I have my own ideas, but this idea of evolved nest and attachment seem to go together.
00:45:02.060 --> 00:45:09.740
So he's originally an anthropologist and have studied um how things have been going on.
00:45:09.740 --> 00:45:17.980
We are on a place where we don't necessarily believe everything was better in the olden days.
00:45:17.980 --> 00:45:22.140
Sometimes people put this haze over it's like, oh, it was so good.
00:45:22.140 --> 00:45:27.820
We lived in small villages and everybody knew each other, and it was so fantastic.
00:45:27.820 --> 00:45:30.540
Some of it wonderful.
00:45:30.540 --> 00:45:42.060
I like to travel, so I wouldn't have been able to take part in the family clan and living in the local neighborhood, doing my things as I'm a nomad, a nomad by heart.
00:45:42.060 --> 00:45:49.900
But the idea of the evolved nest is actually just looking and saying the family structures have become so small.
00:45:49.900 --> 00:45:53.020
So who are your nests?
00:45:53.020 --> 00:45:53.980
Where is it?
00:45:53.980 --> 00:45:56.300
Someone call it the attachment villages.
00:45:56.300 --> 00:45:59.180
Some there's this saying it takes a village.
00:45:59.180 --> 00:46:17.900
Um, but basically, if we look at that today, many families live, two parents with the 2.4 child or 1.4 child, whatever how that could look in in a household, alone in an apartment, not uh socializing with their neighbors, they're doing everything themselves.
00:46:17.900 --> 00:46:22.380
Everyone has their own screwdriver or trampoline, etc.
00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:25.020
There's not a lot of community going on.
00:46:25.020 --> 00:46:38.300
And I think that this uh test of thinking smaller units, it is becoming more and more clear to people that hey, maybe we should uh be more together as people.
00:46:38.300 --> 00:46:41.260
Maybe it's actually quite nice to be together.
00:46:41.260 --> 00:46:48.700
Um, so I'm I you could hear the episode with with Darcia um because she's explaining her thoughts.
00:46:48.700 --> 00:47:04.540
I I'm a different place, uh, but we try to co-live, we try to create community, we try to live together with other people and share the burdens of life or the joys of life together, uh, as both of them needs to be shared.
00:47:04.860 --> 00:47:08.860
Are you guys familiar with Andrew Pudua, Institute for Excellence and Learning?
00:47:08.860 --> 00:47:12.140
Or in writing, sorry, Institute for I just I just interviewed him.
00:47:12.140 --> 00:47:13.660
You can check out that podcast if you want.
00:47:13.660 --> 00:47:50.460
But like he's he's huge in the homeschool world.
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:56.460
He like for writing, especially, but like he's and he's kind of at the very end of his like career, if you want to call it that.
00:47:56.460 --> 00:48:03.340
But but um just I mean, he's influenced, like I don't know, he goes to all the huge conventions and he like his resources are everywhere.
00:48:03.340 --> 00:48:17.820
But anyway, at the end of our interview, one of the big points that he made was he has seven children and uh 18, I think almost 19 grandkids, and they're all homeschooled, like every single one of them has chosen to homeschool of his children that are married and have children.
00:48:17.820 --> 00:48:25.340
And uh anyway, he's just saying, We're we're in in in the US and Canada, we're used to saying like our children go to school.
00:48:25.340 --> 00:48:26.860
So, like it is not uncommon.
00:48:26.860 --> 00:48:36.380
For example, like I grew up in Chicago, I went to university in Utah, so that's like you know, a 24-hour drive from my house in Chicago, and then I ended up living in Canada.
00:48:36.380 --> 00:48:45.020
So, like, and I met a girl and and and and uh we we ended up in Canada, but anyway, this idea he's saying that we should do more.
00:48:45.020 --> 00:49:03.180
He thinks, in his opinion, we should do more, not that you're going to choose for everybody, but that you create the atmosphere of like stop sending everybody away because as a family, there's enough local resources that we could build our communities locally and kind of build it that way.
00:49:03.180 --> 00:49:04.940
But we keep sending everybody away.
00:49:04.940 --> 00:49:07.900
Go to school, go to university, go to your job.
00:49:07.900 --> 00:49:15.500
And uh anyway, I think the Evolved Nest probably would function more I don't know, effectively if we didn't always send everybody away.
00:49:15.500 --> 00:49:21.180
But but again, that's gonna be we you don't want to dictate what people choose, but that's the idea that we were talking about.
00:49:21.660 --> 00:49:30.300
I think you can have all of the education, most of the education, by using what most of us have in our back pocket.
00:49:30.300 --> 00:49:32.940
Not like you have to go anywhere to learn.
00:49:33.180 --> 00:49:34.540
Yeah, we can learn from home.
00:49:34.540 --> 00:49:36.620
Go outside on our own.
00:49:36.780 --> 00:49:42.540
I mean, it's nice to learn with others, it's helpful to learn with help with helpers, teachers, experts.
00:49:42.540 --> 00:49:48.540
I'm not saying that uh education as such is obsolete at all.
00:49:48.540 --> 00:49:50.140
It's just we don't have to go.
00:49:50.140 --> 00:49:55.100
We used it used to be so that we had had to go somewhere to learn, but now we don't.
00:49:55.500 --> 00:49:56.860
Especially with technology.
00:49:57.660 --> 00:50:00.380
Especially now that we have uh the smartphone, basically.
00:50:00.380 --> 00:50:27.660
I think one thing that you we've realized over the years of home educating and being maybe extreme parents, that I think gets lost in the whole idea of education and the idea of academics for children is the real importance of childhood, how important it actually is for your entire life.
00:50:27.660 --> 00:50:35.260
You can learn all of primary school math in about three months if you sit down to study it.
00:50:35.260 --> 00:50:38.380
Yeah, if you really do that at any point in your life.
00:50:38.380 --> 00:50:55.100
Well, maybe at some point you might be too young for it, but let's say after you're 20 years old, after you're 12 years old, most people could just sit down, and if that's what you're doing with the you know, the resource the energy you have to use your brain, you'll learn it pretty quickly.
00:50:55.100 --> 00:51:03.180
Yeah, you cannot get a childhood back, you cannot start over evolving everything that happens from that beautiful baby.
00:51:03.180 --> 00:51:25.500
You come out, you're this miracle shining, and this, and then you start walking and talking, and you're embraced by the world, and you're trying to understand and you're exploring and becoming a little bit older, you're asking all the questions, you're trying to figure out all of the relations, all of the emotions, all of the colors, all of the vibes of things, all of the things.
00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:38.940
Yeah, you're meeting the world, and then you see tween years and and the teenage years happen, and it's rolling over you like a tsunami for some of them, maybe a more calm thing for others.
00:51:38.940 --> 00:51:41.260
It's different, but it's still a big deal.
00:51:41.260 --> 00:51:55.100
They need so much time to think about things and feel things and relate to things and relate to others and have communication, conversations with their friends and with their parents and with whoever they trust to talk with.
00:51:55.100 --> 00:51:58.700
It just went for a walk right before this on a beach.
00:51:58.700 --> 00:52:09.900
And I talked with a beautiful unschooled teenage girl, not my own, and she said, there are not many adults you can talk to who will actually really listen to you, who actually are interested in what you're saying.
00:52:09.900 --> 00:52:16.540
They might politely talk to you and be interested in you as a person, some weird way, without being interested in what you're saying.
00:52:16.540 --> 00:52:21.740
But some adults they relate to you for realsies.
00:52:21.740 --> 00:52:23.100
Isn't that sad?
00:52:23.100 --> 00:52:35.500
I mean, it so, anyway, that is so important for having a good life that the fact that we're even talking about academics and money is ridiculous.
00:52:35.740 --> 00:52:36.860
Yeah, I love that description.
00:52:37.900 --> 00:52:48.620
Stand on your feet, know who you are, know how to relate to other people, know how to be part of a community, know how to handle rough times.
00:52:48.620 --> 00:52:50.060
We all get that.
00:52:50.060 --> 00:53:01.260
Know how to be the one that helps others to handle rough times, know basic stuff like thriving, I would say, knowing what love is.
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:23.340
All of these things is installed, and this installation that happens going from the beautiful little baby to the young adult person standing up here ready to walk into life, that cannot be done in another chunk of 17 years of your life.
00:53:23.340 --> 00:53:26.140
It has to be done in the first 17 years.
00:53:26.140 --> 00:53:34.860
I'm saying 17 arbitrarily, you're not coming to that point of 17 with nothing of what we normally think of as school.
00:53:35.340 --> 00:53:35.820
Education, yeah.
00:53:35.980 --> 00:53:40.780
It's not like they're coming out, and all they know is how to relate to other people and feel love.
00:53:40.780 --> 00:53:51.820
And you know, they they do also acquire quite a lot of stuff that if you take the school filter, you will see academics, if you like.
00:53:52.140 --> 00:54:09.820
Well, I think if people listen to what you just said in that last little monologue or whatever you want to call it, and all it was a good rant, man, because because like it, and I think it really does like it converts me more to the unschool philosophy because, like you said, like you can learn that stuff later, but like the development of that human.
00:54:09.820 --> 00:54:20.620
I mean, again, the name of this podcast is This Golden Hour, and I always tell the story, but that came from me playing catch with my son in front of this dental office where we used to live about 13, 14 years ago.
00:54:20.620 --> 00:54:22.140
And I'm I'm playing catch with him.
00:54:22.140 --> 00:54:29.660
And as we walked inside, it was like this beautiful evening and uh just warm out, and that's not that's not that common here in in Canada.
00:54:29.660 --> 00:54:33.580
And and we're walking in, and I'm like, dude, this is this is a fleeting time.
00:54:33.580 --> 00:54:35.100
Like, I don't get this forever.
00:54:35.100 --> 00:54:38.460
And uh, and that's proven uh that's proven very true.
00:54:38.460 --> 00:54:43.180
Like, you don't know when you're gonna lose those opportunities, and uh, and then they're gone, man.
00:54:43.180 --> 00:54:45.180
You don't get like you said, you don't get that back.
00:54:45.180 --> 00:55:00.220
And so, like, we don't regret at all that for from the time our kids were born until the present day, those hours that were would have been spent in a brick schoolhouse, they were spent with my wife and with me and with nature.
00:55:00.220 --> 00:55:01.900
And I just think it's amazing.
00:55:01.900 --> 00:55:03.820
So, anyway, I love what you just said.
00:55:03.820 --> 00:55:09.820
I can't wait to capture that in like some kind of fight and just be like, man, that that's converting to some souls for sure.
00:55:09.820 --> 00:55:12.060
Where do you stay when you're in Denmark?
00:55:12.540 --> 00:55:13.820
In a farm outside of the world.
00:55:14.140 --> 00:55:22.940
This is an organic farm outside of Copenhagen where our good friends own the farm, and we have this very special relationship with this family.
00:55:22.940 --> 00:55:28.140
We're the why what we like, it's like family, yeah, or like family should be.
00:55:28.140 --> 00:55:33.020
We just really like being together, and we've been very close for a very long time.
00:55:33.020 --> 00:55:39.260
The kids have grown up with this fact that we sometimes move in for a while and then we move out and go on our journeys and stuff like that.
00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:41.500
Like, how long will you stay at a time?
00:55:41.820 --> 00:55:42.860
Oh, that depends.
00:55:43.340 --> 00:55:45.020
Maximum three months, I think.
00:55:45.020 --> 00:55:47.500
It's the longest we have lived together in a row.
00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:48.940
Sometimes just for a week.
00:55:49.100 --> 00:55:51.420
Yeah, we're we're in a similar situation.
00:55:51.420 --> 00:55:58.380
We our my I uh my best basically uh one of my good friends and his wife and I.
00:55:58.380 --> 00:56:04.940
Anyway, our I worked with him, and then our wives became good friends, and our kids are about the same age.
00:56:04.940 --> 00:56:09.020
They have seven kids, and their kids range from about six to twenty four.
00:56:09.020 --> 00:56:19.180
But uh, but anyway, we we bought up an acreage right next to theirs, so we have we basically share the same acreage, and then it's just us out in the country near Waterton National Park.
00:56:19.180 --> 00:56:21.180
So we're just like it's kind of awesome.
00:56:21.180 --> 00:56:23.580
So it is something awesome.
00:56:23.580 --> 00:56:24.540
Yeah, there you go.
00:56:24.540 --> 00:56:26.540
It's a yeah, yeah, there you go.
00:56:26.540 --> 00:56:29.260
It is, it's a small one, but it's suiting us.
00:56:29.260 --> 00:56:35.500
Well, the only thing I wanted to ask about at the end was just like to say, like, what have you guys told people that are trying to get into home education?
00:56:35.500 --> 00:56:40.860
Like, what's your I mean, we've talked about it the whole time, but like what's your kind of counsel to people?
00:56:40.860 --> 00:56:44.460
And then I just yeah, yeah, no, I don't say that.
00:56:44.780 --> 00:56:45.580
No, no, no.
00:56:45.580 --> 00:56:49.020
Yeah, I'm during steer clear.
00:56:49.020 --> 00:57:19.340
Yeah, no, we actually sometimes talk about uh opening the door to Nanya in this old story, that it is, and that's what I mean by don't do it, it is a journey where you keep peeling up layers of your understanding of what life should be, and you figure out that much of what you and I don't like you using words like programmed or instilled in you because it sounds like there's a man who wants to do it against you.
00:57:19.340 --> 00:57:53.900
It is just life, it just happened that we ended up in this and you start questioning a lot of things, and there's a long questioning period, and I see some people go through this normal trajectory where you start out by defending yourself against what is, it's like you need mental crutches to move away from normal, and you often start out by being negative against what other people are doing, and the school system is bad, and all these things.
00:57:53.900 --> 00:58:12.380
Whereas you end up when you have woke the path and gotten rid of the anger and all these things you needed to dare going out in real life, then you end up just enjoying your life and seeing, oh, we like it like this, some people like it like that.
00:58:12.380 --> 00:58:13.580
That's okay.
00:58:13.580 --> 00:58:40.460
So, what I'm trying to say is that for people wanting to start, except there is a period where you might end up being like on the barricades for homeschooling and unschooling and claiming that everything else is stupid, but it's a phase that you need to grow out of also, because you should not define your life in being against, you should define your life as being for something.
00:58:40.460 --> 00:58:41.180
Excellent.
00:58:41.180 --> 00:58:42.380
Living that.
00:58:42.380 --> 00:58:45.980
And if I can look back, I can see I was on that whole trajectory.
00:58:45.980 --> 00:58:52.540
I can all the rants against school, all the rants against how what I think can be wrong with this and that.
00:58:52.540 --> 00:59:06.140
But when I look at what I'm actually really happy for with this life I live, it is the fact that I live next to Cecilia for so many more hours than I did when I went to work.
00:59:06.140 --> 00:59:15.660
I have had a marriage that is so much longer than many other people because I'm next to her all the time.
00:59:15.660 --> 00:59:22.140
And we often travel in a van or when we live in the Airbnb's houses with friends.
00:59:22.140 --> 00:59:25.740
We often like to be in the same rooms, the whole family.
00:59:25.900 --> 00:59:26.140
Wow.
00:59:26.380 --> 00:59:33.820
And the amount of time and hours I get together with my family and my loved ones, that is the choice.
00:59:34.300 --> 00:59:39.660
Yeah, so why so why spend your time and energy about what other people are doing and what you're against?
00:59:39.660 --> 00:59:41.420
Like, like you're just going, dude.
00:59:41.420 --> 00:59:43.660
I I I love I love what you just said.
00:59:43.660 --> 00:59:47.820
Like you've extended your marriage, you've extended your relationship with your children.
00:59:48.460 --> 00:59:54.780
Well, it's the same thing as my rant before that, you know, what's what's really important in this life?
00:59:54.780 --> 01:00:02.060
So your question was, what do you say to people who think that they might want to start homeschooling?
01:00:02.060 --> 01:00:10.300
And there's no one thing that you can say about that because every choice is contextual and every context is different.
01:00:10.300 --> 01:00:14.300
But we do talk a lot about values and life choices.
01:00:14.300 --> 01:00:19.820
We do talk about it in our family and we do talk about it with other people.
01:00:19.820 --> 01:00:29.420
So if you're at a point where you stop and say, Maybe I should homeschool, you're already there, really, where you do that analysis of what's important.
01:00:29.420 --> 01:00:35.420
And we've brushed on lots of things that people are afraid of in this podcast.
01:00:35.420 --> 01:00:43.260
We've talked about then what after, and what would people say, and all these things, what will be your troubles?
01:00:43.260 --> 01:00:53.340
And and my advice for that is you know, when you're doing an analysis, trying to figure out what are my real values and what kind of life do I want to live?
01:00:53.340 --> 01:00:59.420
Can I live a life where I support more of the things that are my top values?
01:00:59.420 --> 01:01:07.260
Then fear will come right away and try to stop you, especially if it's a little bit out of the ordinary what your choices would be.
01:01:07.260 --> 01:01:10.220
So just think about that fear.
01:01:10.220 --> 01:01:17.420
What kind of role do I want fear to have in my life?
01:01:17.420 --> 01:01:22.940
What will I allow fear to choose for me?
01:01:23.100 --> 01:01:23.420
Yes.
01:01:23.740 --> 01:01:26.460
What level of fear can I cope with?
01:01:26.460 --> 01:01:28.380
And is there a way?
01:01:28.380 --> 01:01:33.660
If it's just fear holding me back from what's truly important to me, I know what's important.
01:01:33.660 --> 01:01:50.300
Let's pretend like now you've done the work, you know what's truly important to you, you know how you could get it, and homeschooling might be part of that equation, but there's something you're afraid of, you're so afraid of it that it's stopping you from doing what's really important, then flip it, please.
01:01:50.300 --> 01:01:58.540
Think about what will happen if you don't do the things that are important, what price are you really paying?
01:01:58.540 --> 01:02:00.860
And then you start being really afraid.
01:02:00.860 --> 01:02:03.500
You know, you don't want to pay that price.
01:02:03.500 --> 01:02:05.580
And then you go back to your initial fee.
01:02:05.580 --> 01:02:07.500
And you just start working with that.
01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:08.540
There's techniques for that.
01:02:08.540 --> 01:02:09.660
That's actually quite easy.
01:02:10.620 --> 01:02:13.100
Okay, it pales, it pales in comparison.
01:02:13.100 --> 01:02:13.420
Yeah.
01:02:14.140 --> 01:02:14.540
Exactly.
01:02:14.540 --> 01:02:19.340
Now it becomes just a practical problem you need to solve yourself.
01:02:19.340 --> 01:02:22.940
So that's like the strategy of what we would say to people.
01:02:22.940 --> 01:02:32.380
But obviously, the actual content and conversation would be based on the actual personalities involved and the actual context, the actual situation.
01:02:32.380 --> 01:02:33.820
So there's no one size fits all.
01:02:34.220 --> 01:02:36.300
What what an amazing response from both of you.
01:02:36.300 --> 01:02:37.980
Like honestly, like I like, I don't know.
01:02:37.980 --> 01:02:41.420
The deeper we've gotten into this conversation, I like I'm like at your guys' feet.
01:02:41.420 --> 01:02:45.180
Please, no, for sure, man.
01:02:46.060 --> 01:02:52.300
Standing on the wonderful island of La Palma, Spain, which is right next to F.
01:02:52.300 --> 01:02:53.660
That's where you're headed, right?
01:02:53.660 --> 01:02:55.500
No, no, no, no.
01:02:55.500 --> 01:02:56.220
Just to Spain.
01:02:56.540 --> 01:02:58.220
La Palma is one of the Canary Islands.
01:02:58.220 --> 01:02:59.660
You know about Tenerife, maybe.
01:02:59.660 --> 01:02:59.820
Yeah.
01:02:59.820 --> 01:03:00.140
Yeah.
01:03:01.420 --> 01:03:02.860
We were standing on this island.
01:03:02.860 --> 01:03:11.100
We met some full-time travelers, and I just looked at him and I said, Man, oh man, I would really love this being a full-time traveler.
01:03:11.100 --> 01:03:12.460
It seems awesome.
01:03:12.460 --> 01:03:14.300
Do you have an advice?
01:03:14.300 --> 01:03:17.660
And they looked at us and said, Set a date.
01:03:17.660 --> 01:03:20.220
And that's set a date.
01:03:20.220 --> 01:03:22.460
Three words, that's quite easy.
01:03:22.460 --> 01:03:28.060
And then, but then he followed it up with then you start from dreaming to planning.
01:03:28.060 --> 01:03:33.340
And the interesting things about many of these dreams are that they are often in the future.
01:03:33.340 --> 01:03:42.700
But when you set the date, you will reach that time and period where you need to act on it if you're true toward your values and your choices.
01:03:42.700 --> 01:03:46.380
And we also talked with an on-school homeschool mom.
01:03:46.380 --> 01:03:49.500
And she was a single mom.
01:03:49.500 --> 01:03:54.860
And she actually said to us, Yes, I knew I wanted to homeschool, but I was a single mom.
01:03:54.860 --> 01:03:57.180
So it's like, how can I make this happen?
01:03:57.180 --> 01:04:01.580
But then again, she said, I know I want this in my life.
01:04:01.580 --> 01:04:05.420
I will give myself three or four years to figure out how to do it.
01:04:05.420 --> 01:04:08.220
And then she worked on reaching that dream.
01:04:08.220 --> 01:04:11.900
That it was building up a community of people who could help her with it.
01:04:11.900 --> 01:04:13.820
She needed to go to work, etc.
01:04:13.820 --> 01:04:15.420
But it's the same strategy.
01:04:15.420 --> 01:04:19.260
She set a date, she planned for it, and she moved in that direction.
01:04:19.260 --> 01:04:23.740
It is very, very easy to go through life with just dreams.
01:04:23.740 --> 01:04:24.940
Dreams are nice.
01:04:24.940 --> 01:04:31.660
I don't think you shouldn't have dreams, but they are this comforting thought about a positive future.
01:04:31.660 --> 01:04:36.220
But sometimes you actually need to take that dream and put it a plan.
01:04:36.220 --> 01:04:38.380
Make it a plan and make it happen.
01:04:38.380 --> 01:04:44.220
So that is also one of the advices for people wanting to homeschool is make a plan.
01:04:44.460 --> 01:04:45.900
Well, it inspires me.
01:04:45.900 --> 01:04:47.260
Like I because I do, man.
01:04:47.260 --> 01:04:49.340
And it's it's exactly what Cecilia was saying.
01:04:49.340 --> 01:04:53.900
Like, to the degree that I put that off, man, and what am I more afraid of?
01:04:53.900 --> 01:04:58.780
Am I more afraid of what is staring me in the face right now or what could have been?
01:04:58.780 --> 01:05:02.140
And uh so that's I think that's amazing counsel.
01:05:02.140 --> 01:05:03.580
I appreciate it from both of you.
01:05:03.900 --> 01:05:17.740
We have this friend we had on our podcast, and we talked with her, and she said the amount of insecurity you can hold as a person equals the amount of freedom you will have.
01:05:17.740 --> 01:05:35.180
Because you will, in this life, when you go outside the norm, there will be a lot of insecurity, a lot of what will happen, and all these things, but you will then also be greeted and gifted with a lot of freedom, and that's a nice life.
01:05:35.420 --> 01:05:40.300
The amount of insecurity that you can handle determines the amount of freedom that you'll experience.
01:05:40.300 --> 01:05:47.020
Yes, you can have, you can have, you can only be so free as the insecurities you can take.
01:05:47.020 --> 01:05:50.540
Wow, dig it, man.
01:05:50.540 --> 01:05:53.260
You guys, in my show notes, I'll put all your guys' stuff.
01:05:53.260 --> 01:05:55.580
I just encourage my audience to like tap into you guys.
01:05:55.580 --> 01:06:04.700
I love interviewing people from different cultures and different countries and people that have traveled, like you guys have, because you do, you just have a different perspective that is such a blessing to the rest of us.
01:06:04.700 --> 01:06:05.820
And so thank you very much.
01:06:05.820 --> 01:06:07.260
Thanks for taking time.
01:06:07.260 --> 01:06:08.060
I appreciate it.
01:06:08.300 --> 01:06:08.540
Thank you.
01:06:08.540 --> 01:06:09.340
It was fun.