Ep. 4 | Is There Accountability In The Justice System feat. Selena Hill & Kenneth Montgomery, ESQ

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Speaker 1: Your multifuers out.
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Speaker 2: No.
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Speaker 3: See, now that's a Republican voice.
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Speaker 1: I'm getting ready for John.
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Speaker 2: I don't.
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Speaker 1: All right, y'all.
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Speaker 3: I want you to buckle up your seats at your work desks or the cars that you're driving to work, or wherever you are listening to this week's episode, because boy, we might get you in your fields just a bit.
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Speaker 1: This week we are talking about accountability.
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Speaker 3: Some of y'all don't even know that word, do you, and the justice system specifically within our own community, and y'all, I have some hot takes that I'm going to start off with here to get things rolling to let you guys know where I land in my selective ignorance.
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Speaker 1: So, in terms of accountability, let's be very clear, I think the black community has a blind eye to accountability. And let's be very clear. I say that.
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Speaker 3: Because in terms of us seeking justice, which we saw through the Black Lives Matter marches and us coming into unity over the last few decades centuries, right, I feel like we seek justice only in the moments.
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Speaker 1: In which we feel the others, Yes.
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Speaker 3: The others I'm talking about, y'all know who I'm talking about, have done us wrong. However, in terms of our own community. We believe in snitches, we believe in turning the blind eye and not helping cops in terms of crimes committed. And we also believe in wanting our people to be free, free PuO quing them what a shirt?
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Speaker 1: The hashtags.
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Speaker 3: I don't understand why we have this blinder or this really biased to win and where we want justice, when and where we show empathy, and when and where we choose that ain't got nothing to do with me. Now, I want to also talk about jail time. I want to talk about justice. I do feel like in terms of the hierarchy of crimes.
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Speaker 1: All right, drugs you could get out.
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Speaker 3: We see the marijuana is now legal across multiple states across the country. Right, Guns, I like a gun range from time to time, you just needed to sell a couple, you.
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Speaker 1: Didn't pull the trigger. Now, killing somebody.
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Speaker 3: I don't really hold no type of rehabilitation there. I do feel like I don't know if you could get back from killing somebody. I don't know how I view a person that could take the life of someone else.
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Speaker 1: And then let's be also very clear, any crime committed to children deserves a death penalty. Be gone with their heads. I don't know where that comes from. Is that a Shakespeare's sign? But I want them gone.
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Speaker 3: I do not believe pedophiles have a way in which to rehabilitate or turn into someone who will not commit that crime again. And knowing what comes from being sexually assaulted at a young age and how that impacts you into a adulthood, I just don't even want those type of criminals here.
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Speaker 2: Now.
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Speaker 3: We're going to get into the conversation today around where we draw those lines of what justice looks like, where we viewed a hierarchy of crimes, and why we kind of want to even celebrate criminals. Are we still celebrating big meech and vibes Cartown. Well, we're going to get into those conversations today and more. And I am super, super, super super.
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Speaker 1: Excited to be joined today by two guests.
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Speaker 3: I have journalists and media personality and hosts extraordinaire Selita Hill.
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Speaker 1: You guys may know her as.
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Speaker 3: A writer with Black Enterprise. And then I enjoined it's Esquire. Right at the end, I got suh, Kenneth Montgomery Esquire, who is a criminal defense.
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Speaker 1: Attorney, joining me as well. And you reign from Jersey.
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Speaker 3: Correct, you're not in Jersey, You're Brooklyn.
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Speaker 4: He said, I practice across the country, national practice.
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Speaker 3: And you know I need saying, he said, I'm him now based on what I just said and where I stand, you said a lie. No, This is where I want you guys to chime in on responding to what I had to say.
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Speaker 2: And it's I think everything requires context, right, Okay, Yes, we live in a tabloidal world. Right. When you start discussing accountability as to the criminal justice system in America, I think you need to understand the history of America and what's actually going on. For one, America is probably the most violent sovereign nation in modernity, right yep. The criminal justice system here today incarcerates two point five million people. America is only five percent of the world's population. It incarcerates twenty five percent of the world's popular prison population. It executes people, meaning that it has a death meenily statue. When you look at all the other so called civilized nations, no one is even close to those numbers. And America and the reason and when you speak of accountability, and I'll say this, the people going to jail is less about the people in the in the propensity of them to commit crime. It's more about a system in America is to maintain status quo between and halves and have nots. But that being said, I think you said what I want to respond to directly about black people. We're not special about accountability. Here's what I think, and this is just my opinion. This is a lawless country. You have a president who is a is convicted of a crime, who has been under investigation for several other crimes, who his inner circle have been to jail for federal crimes. It was started as a right wing, white nationalistic experiment and it's been that and the country, the country in general. And I think when you start talking about why people are like free this or why we have a different take on accountability, I think everyone everyone is seeking the golden mantle, and that golden mantle is we want what whiteness have, which is white people are not held accountable. There is any transparency with whiteness. So rich black celebrities they want no accountability too. Cats in the hood they want no accountability. And that's what whiteness affords, no accountability. You can't build a country on exterminating indigenous people exterminating Mexicans, enslaving, exterminating black people, and create this so called democratic, beautiful document called the Constitution. You're never held accountable for all of these that you did for your country to become this empire, because this is an empire. So the fact that no one want wants accountability, it's pretty obvious, like we want what white people have, which is no accountability. Why can you have a twenty twenty five How can you have a president of the United States who, first of all was unqualifiable it's neither here or there, but is a convicted felon as their president? Like that? No one has a problem with that.
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Speaker 3: To me, it's not that no one has a problem with it. So I think even that brings the unrealistic way in which we view ourselves or just society as.
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Speaker 1: Black men and women.
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Speaker 3: We will never be white, so to me, in terms of how we just exist, having those unrealistic expectations of how we're supposed to be viewed or how people are supposed to treat.
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Speaker 1: Us doesn't make sense.
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Speaker 3: And so that that now, that now allows itself to be an excuse.
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Speaker 1: And so why now we don't hold our.
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Speaker 3: Own community accountable or why we want to forgive their crimes.
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Speaker 1: To me, it's an excuse. Well, the white man can get away with it.
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Speaker 3: I think it removes the our responsibility to our own community to be able to see what's wrong and what's right.
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Speaker 4: But I feel like in our community we do help, we do have accountability, you do.
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Speaker 5: I feel like we're not a monolith.
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Speaker 4: In that sense, Like I feel like there's different tiers, there's levels to it, right.
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Speaker 5: I feel like when.
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Speaker 4: Let's say somebody is being convicted or you know, for a crime or whatever, you will have certain people say like, oh, no, especially if he's a rapper. You know this person, this person is being unfairly targeted or accused. But then you have other side of people who was like, no, I think that that person should be held accountable and should you know, go to trial and and but I think that the bigger issue here is that the system itself is unjust right, it's unfair. When we do hear folks saying free Pooky and them to quote, it's because they're saying it from a standpoint of the entire system is rigged. It's set up against black and brown people. So honestly, like when OJ was acquitting. How many of us cheered? I was four, I was six, but I remember my grandmother, I remember my family.
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Speaker 5: We were like, yes, finally, it's our term.
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Speaker 4: So like to your point, if you're saying O J should be hold accountable, but what about the four hundred plus years where black people were either enslaved or you know the gym clos.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so I ain't gonna hold I hear y'all.
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Speaker 3: And this is where I have the biggest problem. If if I hate that we're using the word pooky. So I'm gonna say, derekge Derek.
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Speaker 1: Oh sorry, I love save the Last Dance.
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Speaker 3: And when when Kerry Washington calls for Derek, that's his name, and I just love the word Derek, the name Derek.
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Speaker 1: So we're gonna lean into Derek. If Derek commits a crime, Derek, let's say he kills.
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Speaker 3: Someone, because that's that's where my stance is, especially in terms of a family.
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Speaker 2: Grieving specification, self defense.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you go, it is being a lawyer. Okay, being a lawyer. No, if you if you.
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Speaker 2: Just killed, you come in the house and you see someone having sex with your.
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Speaker 1: Child, oh no, you could die right there in the.
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Speaker 3: Day I'm just saying like, oh no, no, no, okay. So yes, so there's absolutely nuances. So I'm gonna say, in this sense, you killed a person, not because of self defense, not because.
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Speaker 1: Your child was being being molested. We can get.
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Speaker 3: Into those little caveats later, but for this, you and someone just had an argument and you chose to pull out your gun and shoot them. Living in Georgia, now everyone has a gun. I don't think everyone should tick tick boom. You got mad, you shot and killed somebody.
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Speaker 1: Now you're on trial.
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Speaker 3: I do not believe that you at that point should be able to use the excuse of, especially as a black man, that the that the system is rigged, that what we had four hundred years where they treated us like this, and as a community, because we're aware of those injustices, I don't think it's fair that we remove the accountability for that individual and the crime that they committed, and remove seeing them as you're looking at them as a black man, and the black plight and then what black people have had to go through without looking at this person as an individual and the crime he committed.
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Speaker 2: So so oh, I love it. Question, So quest to me up. So if Kamala Harris was to win the presidency. If she would have won, does that mean that sexism doesn't it gets exist anymore? No? Okay, then, so simply because someone got arrested, they now can't tap on the realities of what the system is. You still got to get a jury pool, yeah, and still got to get a prosecutor who who is interested in and abiding by the laws. You still got to get a judge.
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Speaker 3: My issue stems from us right now removing the fact that they committed a crime and viewing them as a victim.
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Speaker 1: Or an underdog.
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Speaker 4: Look, I am that person, Okay, I'm the person that's like, okay, but when he was five years old he got bullied.
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Speaker 1: No, that's mitigation.
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Speaker 4: But I take that stance because I'm the person like, okay, but what happened Like, no one wakes up a murderer in my opinion, and to me, I want to know what went wrong in your life? What trauma are you still dealing with and struggling with that led you to commit such a heeneous, a henious act.
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Speaker 1: Selena, that's me.
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Speaker 3: Can I ask you a question, do you have that same exact sentiment for a Zimmerman or a Dahmer. So so that is I guess my point where now we have but we have a level ofuse.
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Speaker 2: You're you're asking to put it all across the board, everyone go even Stephen. But the realities of it, we don't live in an even Stephen society socially, politically or economically. We just don't to say like, hey man, I want us to function like this. That's just I think that's ignoring decades of laws, policies, history, data and metrics that go otherwise. And that's the problem. I get it. And and and as to this community thing, you know, you have a community when you control the ecosystem of your community. Black people don't really have a community. We have a community echo chamber. We don't have a where where's our community? We don't We don't craft the drug laws, in the in the in the in the gun laws, we don't craft.
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Speaker 5: We have community, but we don't have power.
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Speaker 2: Well community, I mean in the sense of where where's our mobilization in our community? We take it on, mobilized, take it off.
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Speaker 5: We have been mobilized.
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Speaker 4: And what I've seen it in twenty twelve and Traymon Marvin shot Black Lives Matter.
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Speaker 5: We've seen it in twenty fourteen.
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Speaker 2: Performative twenty as well. You think you think I thought that was performative.
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Speaker 4: So you think the modern day Black Lives Matter movement is performative.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's a concept performative by black folks or white folks, by everybody. It's a concept.
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Speaker 4: Because lots because they're not working to get lost pass or polity.
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Speaker 2: There's been If you're standing on stage performing, meanwhile, the system is still continuing to turn. What is your impact beyond? Because listen, IBM meant with red, black and green, that didn't change any.
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Speaker 4: Dynastications were performative. But to say that black lives matter, black lives Matter on a global stance raised awareness about police injustice and black and brown communities.
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Speaker 5: That's what they weren't paying attention. They weren't caring enough to.
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Speaker 2: Take people black people first first. As far as the justice system, most of us don't know that. Three to date, there's been three to four thousand exonerations to talk about is our system working? However, police shootings, excessive force, qualified immunity, all of that stuff is in your paper every single day. The reason why everyone jumped up at arms about it is because it was something on television that came through the form of entertainment in social media. People riled up, and people got riled up. To what end.
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Speaker 1: I get where you're.
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Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying, but what happened listen. In no disrespect to anyone, I go to Brownsville quite often. I go to the neighborhoods and nobody want to go to We have a program called the Brooklyn Combine. I go to a cross les. I've never seen Black Lives Matter in the hood. I've never had. I'm not saying they're not, I've never seen them there.
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Speaker 6: Dian Selena go no, because I just felt like I just felt like it's such an unfair attack on length like well in my I interpreted or a criticism or if you will, a critique, I think, let me finish.
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Speaker 4: The reason why is because I feel like it negates the impact that those of us in Black Lives Matter did make.
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Speaker 5: Again, I don't, I don't. I don't poo poole on awareness in general, right, I don't.
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Speaker 4: I don't look down on officials that were elected because of Black Lives Matter. I don't look down on the changes that were made to get corporations to pay more attention, to get them to fund more D N D E and I efforts I get and I also and then the last point is like just mobilizing around a cause right to act for to act or or to fight for justice, and to get young people aware, especially on what's been going on and taking place in the history of America and modern day, and to get them to say, like, okay, well, how can.
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Speaker 5: We make change.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 4: Some of us were in the streets, some of us were in courtroom, some of us were in corporations. And I think that everyone plays a role. I think, like to your point, Black Lives Matter is such a broad umbrella, right, and like we're all immersed in it.
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Speaker 5: But I don't think that it.
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Speaker 4: Was a bad thing for folks to say always said the.
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Speaker 5: Person that it was killed for it should be held a counter of.
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Speaker 2: Course they should. My point is that it was performative in the sense that if people think, you know, when you see the black guy killed on television or the black woman killed in her apartment, that is the physical death of black people, well we need to understand that the reason why that can happen, and most people don't blink an eye is because this society that we live in is based off of our social and physical death. Our bodies. They don't have any value, they don't mean anything. So when people see that, But we live in a techno feudal world now a digital age, so when you see that, it's like, oh my god. And then now what though, the problem is that we don't have an infrastructure from a community standpoint to do anything about it other than hell, no, we won't go.
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Speaker 5: And build upon it. Let's not take away from Black Lives Matter.
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Speaker 4: Let's say like, okay, let's get infrastructure, let's get organized, let's figure out the next step.
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Speaker 7: But then that's why you say we don't have a community, we have echo chains.
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Speaker 3: Because say that too, because when it came to Black Lives Matter, we see the execs of that organization and so they treated blmpun They took them coins and said.
00:19:03
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a mentioned, I was gonna buy a car.
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Speaker 8: As a pro capitalist person, can you blame someone for who who they shouldn't have did it, but they're taking advantage of a way to get funded, right, Yeah, I feel like that's what capitalist.
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Speaker 2: Whiteness does with.
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Speaker 7: So can we use be on them. So y'all been speaking really broad in terms. But let's get into with some of these cases. You're you want to start with the bl one or you want to start your chicken wing?
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Speaker 2: Okay, No, I like this.
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Speaker 1: It's all based on that's what the episode.
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Speaker 3: So last year, Chicago woman was sentenced to nine years in prison for stilling one point five million dollars or the chicken wings from uh the school department?
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Speaker 4: Uh?
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Speaker 1: And I want to add that. Can we get the name?
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Speaker 8: Oh?
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Speaker 1: I see him? So the Kansas City chiefs player Chris jo owns.
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Speaker 3: He came out to say and offered that he would pay in restitution the one point five million dollars that she was sold that she sold in order to get her out of jail.
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Speaker 1: Now, will we talk about again? My issue with accountability was in our community. This bitch stolen from the kids. I'll look at it that way.
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Speaker 3: I do want to give you a little bit of insight. If you guys are unfamiliar with this case.
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Speaker 2: She's older.
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Speaker 1: Older.
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Speaker 3: The reason why I don't give a fuck.
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Speaker 2: So here's here's my problem. If we were not really talking about accountability, because if we really wanted to talk about accountability, the biggest crime scenes is about two three miles east the west, going to Wall Street every day. Pick up a book called Griftopia. Pick up Judge ray Cooff's Ed Jeb Raycoff's Jed Raycoff's latest book on the Department of Justice unwillingness to go after corporate white collar crime. So excuse listen, no, no, no, no, listen listen, listen. The banks? How do how do drug dealers survive? They they survived by money laundering and the ability to money launder. So JP Morgan t d. These guys lock it up. They are loitering the money for the cartoons. You know, if it happened, they pay a fine. You know what the Sackler family does when they're represented by Ted Wells, when they flooded the streets of America with opioids. You know what they do, They pay a fine. So the old black lady in capitalism who busts one point five is a lower mess. Is a very low amount of money in my world personal and federal crimes.
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Speaker 1: Years.
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Speaker 5: That's that's that's too long.
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Speaker 2: What's the partularization long?
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Speaker 1: Okay, So here's my take on this story.
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Speaker 3: First off, the fact that the Kansas City chiefs player has the money you want to pay for this criminal to get out of jail, holder, but you can't put.
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Speaker 2: Man he wants to pay the fine.
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Speaker 3: No, no, he wants to pay that money back to get her to be released so that she doesn't have to serve the.
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Speaker 1: Time for her crime. I think she is still she committed a crime.
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Speaker 3: And that's the thing when I say excuse, all I hear is y'all bringing up the excuse.
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Speaker 1: Like, well, they got away with it. I should be too, No, but but now exactly, But it's.
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Speaker 3: The accountability y'all are saying, Well, if you wanted to pay the money, if he was willing to pay the fine, she should get out of jail.
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Speaker 2: So Brett Faarr gets nothing then, right, But again you keep bringing up listen, So no, no, that's not what I'm bringing up. I'm bringing up statistics of what's going on. If you're going to enforce a crime, enforce the crime. So my point is, yes, if there are corporations committing crimes, hand it.
00:23:00
Speaker 7: Over to can do parallel her with Brett Favre because I think that I think that's more equally.
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Speaker 2: Far basically took money away from people who needed it, yep, and he got.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely these children need this chicken.
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Speaker 2: Yo.
00:23:15
Speaker 1: Listen, these children.
00:23:18
Speaker 2: Got a lot greater part man. And this is what I'm going to lead it up to. Elad. We can't take these one off sensational cases and apply them as to solutions in a systemic criminal justice system. I think that's a bit unfair. Okay, that's just my opinion.
00:23:35
Speaker 3: I do think life is not fair, and so to me, when these cases do become sensationalized or we're talking about them, I do think I want to look at the matter at hand, and to me, the matter at hand is again us witnessing people commit crimes, the idea that we want to excuse the white people that get away with these crimes, but we concer.
00:24:00
Speaker 2: Rate two point five million people.
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Speaker 4: My question to you, Kathy is why does this elder black woman who sole one point five million dollars chicken?
00:24:09
Speaker 5: Why does that matter? Why does why do you care so much?
00:24:12
Speaker 4: And there are systemic issues that are keeping us down as a community, like why does this?
00:24:18
Speaker 1: Why do we have why are we so inficded about this?
00:24:22
Speaker 5: What I had mental health challenges?
00:24:24
Speaker 1: Oh, here you look at.
00:24:27
Speaker 4: But the kicks, first of all, they said that the chicken wings have bones in it and the kids couldn't even eat them.
00:24:36
Speaker 1: She stopped from cancer.
00:24:38
Speaker 5: Like, I'm happy she got out.
00:24:40
Speaker 1: No, I think she's feeling I think she's feeling okay. I would.
00:24:48
Speaker 2: Let me just say something else, because I think I'm the only one in there who picks juries for a living. You know, black people convict just like every yes, they do, black or white. It's like, it's not like black people are going in that courthouse and exercising jeury nullification.
00:25:04
Speaker 5: Right.
00:25:04
Speaker 2: Black people are conservative concerning that, and they are convicting other black people. You don't get the number of black people in the criminal justice system if black people were not, if they were so uh not concerned.
00:25:19
Speaker 5: Yes, so we help, we hold each other accountable.
00:25:22
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this.
00:25:23
Speaker 3: We talked about this one off here. They don't want to bring it up, so another woman.
00:25:27
Speaker 1: Not that I care a lot.
00:25:28
Speaker 3: Let's also let's be very clear. I don't care about you niggas, don't care about what the hell y'all got going on. Don't care about the crime you commit. But if you commit the crime, you do the time.
00:25:36
Speaker 1: I actually believe, I believe.
00:25:40
Speaker 3: So we'll get into that so an Amazon worker during the pandemic also sold ten million dollars from Amazon in a mastermind scheme.
00:25:50
Speaker 1: Not let's be very clear, because it's funny.
00:25:55
Speaker 3: You see here, Yes, she sold from Jeff Bezos and gave it to another billionaire.
00:25:59
Speaker 1: Because she bought a Tesla and a Lamborghinie wrote up. She said, let me take this on it from Bess put in Eli. You feel me again. The financial literacy of it corporation.
00:26:12
Speaker 2: That's it. That's just like killing. Mike went on there crying, revolutionary, make revolutionary music. When casts start tearing shit down, don't Let's don't mess with the buildings. We have buildings here, the building, a lot of buildings. Corporation.
00:26:25
Speaker 1: Now, let's be clear. I don't care that the money was taken from a corporation.
00:26:30
Speaker 3: However, this same story, women were like, well here's a billionaire. Yes, good for her. She took this ten million dollars and ran it up and again did not hold this woman accountable for yet again, to me, this is a crime. You should not be still. I don't care if it's from a corporation. I don't care's from your grandmama.
00:26:49
Speaker 2: First listen, if she got convictioned in your federal system. In the federal system is that is a is a is a lost. How you calculate loss in the federal system is a statute. I think it's two point d one. It is actual loss and intended loss, right, and that when you look at that statute. Even judges like the former judge Gleeson, great guy, they talk about how there's a lot of discrepancies as to how you calculate loss. So her sixteen year sentence is literally a Metrican equation involving her criminal history points and the amount of loss in her guideline sentence.
00:27:29
Speaker 3: Well, also, I know you mentioned the federal like this being a federal case, and I think that that's where I would have drawn or drew the differences between the Brett Favre and the Chicken Wing lady that happened in the state of Illinois and Chicago, and then Brett Favre was Mississippi, if I'm not mistaken, right, or Alabama with one of the southern states. So unfortunately, what we also have to consider in terms of talking about the justice system and crimes and things.
00:27:55
Speaker 1: Like that, is there is a huge difference.
00:27:57
Speaker 3: We see what's happened with rico cases and drawing those differences to if you get a state charge, and so to me, you also have to look at across state lines, like who's who's actually judging on this, who's voted into those places? And this is why we talk about the presidential election isn't the most important your local voting like those voting elections are just as important.
00:28:18
Speaker 2: But let's be clear, most white collar criminal defendants do not go to jail or are even really prosecuted.
00:28:28
Speaker 4: But so so if that's the case, right, should we be saying that because they are prosecuted or convicted at the same rate that we know black folks are Black folks should just get away with everything more focus on fighting white collar crime.
00:28:47
Speaker 2: I think we should put more focus in creating an equitable criminal justice system. That's what we don't focus onistic it can be if the people, but most Americans are afraid of one of everything.
00:29:04
Speaker 7: And Kenneth, by equitable, do you mean like restructuring the sentencing guidelines.
00:29:08
Speaker 2: The centizing guidelines need to be restructured both on the federal level. The legislature need to deal with like we don't address the real issues and crime and listen, let's be honest about crime is and no disrespect to you man. You sound like a Southerner right now, and it.
00:29:26
Speaker 9: Says no, no, no, Lee like Lee Atwater in the sense that we all know that crime is the big pink elephant in the room to get people riled up.
00:29:41
Speaker 2: Because what we when we think of crime in America? What do we think of black people? That is not true for me, from not for you. And I'm thinking from a from a society standpoint. The reason why politicians, both on both sides of the aisle jump up and start talking about crime, the reason why this bonehead dude Tump jumps up and talk about all this it is because people know that that's how you get white voters.
00:30:09
Speaker 1: I think that's a bit of where I'm at with this.
00:30:11
Speaker 3: Then, when it comes to any case, any crime, I do, Oh, this is gonna sound so.
00:30:18
Speaker 1: Of me. I remove color.
00:30:20
Speaker 10: However, may Taylor Green come on, now, I.
00:30:29
Speaker 2: Don't like better than this.
00:30:30
Speaker 3: But if I'm looking at a case, oftentimes I am looking at the evidence and the crime committed. And this is where I want to side bar this conversation. Then with then what does justice look like? How do we identify just well because then I say that, because then we can talk about the both of them gene family. But in terms of justice, I have a I have a difficulty with what that really looks like as well.
00:30:56
Speaker 4: I think from my standpoint when it comes to justice, right, I think that when I look at people in cases, I'm looking at Okay, what Kenny was saying, the fact that you have so many white people, privileged people, affluent people who get away with so much criminality, and I'm like, they and they aren't held accountable. Right, But then when you have you know, Auntie Betty who we know, you know, has sticky fingers and got our hands on one point five million dollars worth of chicken wings, or you had the other.
00:31:30
Speaker 1: Syst who.
00:31:33
Speaker 5: Who figured out a.
00:31:34
Speaker 4: Way to figure out a way to you know, take ten million dollars worth of Amazon. It's like, okay, but what communities are they coming from? What happened or what what are they doing or what have they witnessed or experienced where they feel the need to commit certain acts for survival, for survival?
00:31:56
Speaker 1: We don't know. Are both of you'all business owners?
00:31:59
Speaker 10: Yes?
00:32:00
Speaker 1: Yes, Auntie with the sticky favors.
00:32:05
Speaker 3: Still's one point five million dollars worth of something through accounts payable to your to your You shouldn't have did that, Okay, So I want to hear it too, and I want the answer from it. Yes, because you're giving the empathy because amazone. Okay, So Aunty with the sticky fingers, there's one point five million dollars from your business.
00:32:29
Speaker 5: I would have said, why didn't you come to me? We could have had a conversation if you said, just do you know rent issue?
00:32:40
Speaker 2: And I'll wrap here are you hiring?
00:32:42
Speaker 1: I see this childhood.
00:32:45
Speaker 4: Seriously, like I see myself, I see my family, I see the people I grew up with, I see my neighbors. It's hard for me to feel judgmental because I understand the struggle. So because I do emphasize and I'm just like, we could have figured it out. If you needed some more money, let's figure out how to get this money together, and you figure out how to steal ten million dollars of Amazon, you might have come teach me something.
00:33:10
Speaker 10: You know what that's maybe money, cooperative economics, so money?
00:33:13
Speaker 2: So how could you even clear example? Just this year, uh, some individuals were prosecuted in the Eastern District of New York for stealing money from lawyers. Okay, I was one of the lawyers where they caught my check, A couple of them.
00:33:28
Speaker 1: How much they're checking war five?
00:33:29
Speaker 2: How much some check being about one hundred and seventy thousand dollars worth of money and you got money? Attorney US Attorney's office called Ken. These are US attorneys. I'm usually against their adversaries. Ken, you're complaining, Hey, tell us what happened? Hey, would you would you? Would you mind making a statement at sentencing against them? Nah? I'm okay, no.
00:33:58
Speaker 1: But they still got one to jail, right.
00:34:01
Speaker 2: I didn't even follow the case, but I wasn't gonna try to knock their head off over that. It didn't bother me that I don't care that much about money, Okay, To be quite honest, I never have. But I think that we if we really, we don't live in an equitable criminal justice system. It's flawed, it's not transparent, and it's Listen. It's a great book. Pick up Judge Frederick Block's book, A Second Chance. Judge Frederick Block is a federal judge who's handled some of the most serious cases in the country, who even just recently a very good friend of mine he released off of five life sentences. He gave this man five life sentences. His name is Walter Tut Johnson. He gave Tut five life sentences. He released him. I had another client in front of him, my own client, Racine Maightin. He gave him one thousand and eighty months. You know what that is a lot? Yeah, ninety years. He just rescinduced him. He'll be home in two years. So it's like we our sense of justice also should include redemption.
00:35:15
Speaker 1: Yes, I want.
00:35:18
Speaker 3: I want to get to redemption. Yeah, because I don't think everybody should be redeemed. But in what you said and what you said, I just want to speak for myself and Sir Curtis Jackson because.
00:35:34
Speaker 1: No.
00:35:35
Speaker 3: Fifth because me and fifty A line. I went to invest Best last year at the Yes Investment shout out to to Troy Vershatt from Earn Your Leisure. They had investments. They held it in Atlanta.
00:35:49
Speaker 1: And it's one of the biggest, the biggest business festivals. Selena was there as well, and so.
00:35:53
Speaker 3: Fifty cents that on stage and spoke about his Cognac brand and how the investors are one of the teams from there. So I don't know what he said, like three million dollars or something from it, and he said he looked into the accounting.
00:36:08
Speaker 1: And was like, these motherfuckers told from me. And he said, you know what.
00:36:11
Speaker 3: I spent five million dollars in legal fees just to make sure I let them know that I'm not to be played with. And so when it comes to maybe you not having that relationship with money and me viewing these people as people despite the color of their skin, I think in where I stand of respect owed and people not playing in my face and my life that I had to live, and not wanting certain people around or again, if they commit certain crimes.
00:36:37
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna hold you. But what they say, you still one point five million for me, I'm coming after your family, bitch. I don't give a whole fuck.
00:36:44
Speaker 3: I think this forgiveness to people committing crimes due to the trauma and tragedy that our community has had to face over the last four hundred years and centuries to come. I just don't feel like that allows an excuse in my present day, where we may not see world peace, where we may not see the turning of the justice system actually be equitable. No, literally, we're in a place where and so to me, the idea of this forgiveness or leniency on crimes that are actually committed, I don't understand when, yes, we're probably facing in the next four years, who knows what because of who we've allowed, Yes, as.
00:37:21
Speaker 1: A white man to be present.
00:37:22
Speaker 2: I think was deep inside of a lot of people is that they realized that the real criminals are never held accountable. Agree, yes, understand, And I think when you have that reality, I think that warks your sense of justice when you know that there's really no transparency in our criminal justice system.
00:37:37
Speaker 3: Now, both of Jean's family did just get awarded one hundred million dollars to be paid by the ex cop.
00:37:45
Speaker 1: They're aware that they.
00:37:46
Speaker 3: Will probably never see a red penny from that woman. However, they believe that was justice. I do want to know again if we're identifying or viewing what we view justice to be. Because how much time does she have she and with good times she probably seven. I think, well she's already served maybe three, so she she will be home.
00:38:10
Speaker 1: Does that look like justice?
00:38:12
Speaker 3: And when we talk about then redeemable things, do you view someone serving time in jail when they come out, that being their redemption.
00:38:22
Speaker 2: Uh no, okay, you could redeem yourself and still be in jail. I think redemption is I don't think you have to you know, redemption is a personal thing. Redemption is personal. It's what what what redemption really is is self reflection, right, self reflection and triggering your value system and realizing that holding yourself accountable. Forget the laws, forget the rule of law. The American rule of law is just a A is a paradigm and structure for power. It's not it's not this angelic thing that you assent to. It's just for power. It's all. It's only there for power. Redemption is personal. You know, listen and and and death penalty cases, there's such this. This is a victim impact statement is you know, you get an opportunity sometimes to see what the family wants. Remember the Dylan Roof, Yes, remember dyaling with Remember the Black family. They came out and they said that, you know, we didn't want the death penalty. Yep, that's a personal thing.
00:39:24
Speaker 1: It is a personal thing, a personal because I want it's suspective.
00:39:27
Speaker 2: You know, listen, but back to your death as at all on the y.
00:39:33
Speaker 4: The reason being is because more black people are disproportionately killed under the death penalty.
00:39:39
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter the crime.
00:39:41
Speaker 4: No, the government didn't give life, so they can't take away my finish.
00:39:45
Speaker 5: But back to Baltham Gene where we were talking.
00:39:47
Speaker 2: About people his last time and he deals to he executed thirteen people.
00:39:52
Speaker 1: He signed out fund it.
00:39:53
Speaker 4: So that's all we were talking about that. I feel like the real crime there we gonna talk about accountability. Why is it okay for the city to recuse themselves if the city was given that payout family at least a.
00:40:08
Speaker 2: Couple of months.
00:40:09
Speaker 5: So can you please explain how so this woman Ambergire, if we remember in twenty eighteen, she was in uniform, she gave police commands and basically what the union right.
00:40:21
Speaker 1: She was.
00:40:22
Speaker 5: She was off duty, but she was still trained by the city police, right, and she there was a certain way she should have handled that. She should have backed up, She should have called for backup.
00:40:31
Speaker 4: You know, you don't continue to pursue mind from what I understand. Nonetheless, the city got was refused themselves and was not held accountable at all for what that person did, that police officer did.
00:40:45
Speaker 5: How does that happened.
00:40:46
Speaker 1: Had that happen.
00:40:48
Speaker 2: Part? I mean, it's part of it. I mean, if if we understand America, we know that, you know, the protection of the police is everything. Can the city say that, they say, listen to me, listen New York City. You know how much money New York City pays out on a daily basis.
00:41:06
Speaker 5: Don't they pay like one fifteen million elazariness?
00:41:09
Speaker 2: So you pull up, Oh yeah, don't look, don't look.
00:41:11
Speaker 1: Okay, fine, we could get into it.
00:41:12
Speaker 2: I do our tweets, I pull that flip the script.
00:41:15
Speaker 10: I just want to say one thing about just piggybacking off of Kenny said, we talked abut self accountability.
00:41:20
Speaker 2: Rapper g Depth.
00:41:21
Speaker 10: You know, he woke up a family's worst nightmare when he revealed that he murdered somebody in his community and they didn't know who.
00:41:29
Speaker 2: The murderer was.
00:41:30
Speaker 10: He felt all his guilt and wanted to, you know, have self accountability.
00:41:33
Speaker 2: Turn himself into years. So he just came home out of doing a stint.
00:41:40
Speaker 10: But you know, not all criminals do that, but he did it. You know, he said, Yo, you know what I did this murder?
00:41:45
Speaker 2: You know.
00:41:45
Speaker 3: But before we get to flip the script, which is where we're going to pull up some of your tweets I did want to get into then the I guess free so and so more.
00:41:55
Speaker 2: Okay, you hate it, and I'm a criminal defense attorney grew up in Brooklyn, Brownsville, Crown Heights. Because bullshit, it's like because I never you know what, I never heard anybody say free mo Mia or free Asada chicor or free like we so what we talking about? What do you what are you saying? What does that mean? It's really no disrespect for lack of a better word, blank blank writing. M keenis writing, That's what it really is, is following. I agree, that's what y'all doing. I listen.
00:42:29
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, although I did that free music.
00:42:32
Speaker 2: I hate all those Instagram posts of everybody pulling up all the gangsters and killers and drug dealers from back in the day talking about how back how what you how it used to be? That ship is corny to this, especially.
00:42:45
Speaker 3: With with meats Getting's agul recently released. I know and I also wanted to talk about to that. And again, only because we're speaking of our own community, we idolize as well.
00:42:54
Speaker 1: Criminals from Frank Lucas to.
00:42:57
Speaker 5: Big Me, and that's also hip hop.
00:43:00
Speaker 2: Keep going, that's all that's some Americans culture culture, American.
00:43:07
Speaker 4: Culturet al Capone, John Wayne, Hollywood, the criminal.
00:43:16
Speaker 1: Better.
00:43:16
Speaker 3: But that is where it's trickled down into where again, maybe street Wood removes us from stitching on them.
00:43:25
Speaker 1: From we want to be.
00:43:28
Speaker 2: Culture is my culture. We don't know.
00:43:29
Speaker 10: We don't know even all the rappers who all look at all the rappers who duplicate the names of the right Gotti.
00:43:41
Speaker 1: I don't want to smoke with Italian.
00:43:45
Speaker 4: So the real issue is why don't we dissect whiteness, right and all of the privilege.
00:43:50
Speaker 1: And girl, everybody like, we know already, we know what they get. I know.
00:43:57
Speaker 4: But the thing is it's deeper than that, right, Like, if the issue is that whiteness gives you ability to not be held accountable, and everyone else is like, you know what, I'm tired of getting whipped on my back.
00:44:10
Speaker 5: I'm tired of being a feeling in bondage. The answer is I need to align myself with whiteness, right and in any way possible. So that's what we're all doing. So why don't we take down whiteness?
00:44:23
Speaker 1: Well, because there's a there's a privilege there.
00:44:26
Speaker 3: I think I want to them lead into what Kenneth was saying about us not really having that community that you believe we have. And it's because kind of like what we saw with the election, right, even the Latinos, y'all are minorities.
00:44:40
Speaker 2: And witeness does contract and it and it does close closes, it does.
00:44:47
Speaker 3: But also let's be very clear of them, our our our blinders to what we're seeing within our own community as well, is all off skin. And as soon as they get a couple of dollars, you know, they're at those golf, those gol You know that. I don't want to lean into deleting that this is just black men, but both black men and women lean into dating life.
00:45:09
Speaker 1: That helps much. But keep going. I don't think that there's.
00:45:13
Speaker 3: A dismantling of that that we're going to see because it affords you the whiteness, and it's what we've seen with the election. Hold on, let's be very clear. They come out and said we have to protect our whiteness.
00:45:24
Speaker 5: Why don't we come out and say, let's it's time for revolution, let's take down the country.
00:45:31
Speaker 3: And I'll be honest with you, it's again, because you want to sit here and have empathy for the criminals, and you.
00:45:36
Speaker 1: Want to and.
00:45:39
Speaker 2: I'll go even a little bit further, why don't we turn away from whiteness and get off the tit of whiteness? Great, another way to live that's practical to oppendy, let's do it.
00:45:49
Speaker 5: Let's let's get it, let's reimagine.
00:45:52
Speaker 4: Let's reimagine what life could be and what power could be without the constraints of whiteness.
00:45:59
Speaker 5: Right, Like, we put whiteness on this pedestal, and I'm.
00:46:02
Speaker 4: All subscribing to it. Right, it's either you want to be it or you are it. And we're like, no, let's go against the grain.
00:46:09
Speaker 3: You know, you know what I envision while y'all were talking, y'all remember the little Disney logo that like it was like a shooting star that Yes, it's not of like fantasy, it's notind of like a fairy tale like a Disney care.
00:46:22
Speaker 11: It's like they just jumped I think where lowless white people thought when they came to the Americas, Right, Yeah, and that and that fairy tale became our nightmare.
00:46:36
Speaker 2: So we we're now in a position where we're like, yo, we can't beat them, just join.
00:46:41
Speaker 1: Them, right, That's what we're doing.
00:46:43
Speaker 4: And I'm sure there was there was how many people that were on the plantation that said I can imagine something.
00:46:48
Speaker 5: I want to imagine something called freedom, and they were right right.
00:46:52
Speaker 4: So I'm saying it starts with one person and then you build a movement.
00:46:56
Speaker 5: We could do it.
00:46:56
Speaker 2: I believe that. Well.
00:46:57
Speaker 1: I want to plip the script on both of y'all real quick, and so I have a tweet pulled up from Selena. Selena. You responded to a post from d L.
00:47:06
Speaker 3: Hugh Lee, who retweeted something from Scott Fainberg, and the tweet said, during the commercial break, Will Smith is pulled aside and comforted by Denzel Washington and Tyler Perry, who motioned for him to brush it off.
00:47:18
Speaker 1: Will appears to white tears from.
00:47:20
Speaker 3: His eyes as he sits back down with Jada, with Denzel comforting Jada and Will's rep by his side. You responded, Oh yeah, this is you. The same photoshop this is you, You said.
00:47:32
Speaker 1: The fact that.
00:47:33
Speaker 3: Will Smith was comforted after he assaulted Chris Rock is a reflection of how society continues to sympathize, excuse, and defend perpetrators of violence hashtag oscars.
00:47:45
Speaker 1: Well, you are a.
00:47:45
Speaker 2: Hypocritical everything you said, no one.
00:47:47
Speaker 1: Hell, let's be also very clear. That's everything I was just saying. And baby, you had sympathy fighters, they're so contexted.
00:47:54
Speaker 10: Yeah, what is the.
00:47:55
Speaker 3: Nond text because you had sympathy? Hold on, you comforted that woman who sold that one boy five million dollars of chicken wingsund you excuse the woman who sold ten million dollars from Amazon. And so I want to ask you with your views on this particular moment.
00:48:12
Speaker 1: Yes, upset that so many people comforted a black man shouldn't send in his nigger too.
00:48:19
Speaker 2: He'sus entertaining.
00:48:21
Speaker 5: Now I write the script and call out and this is not hypocritical.
00:48:26
Speaker 4: And the reason why I stand ten tones out. First of all, the other people we were talking about.
00:48:31
Speaker 5: Did not commit any acts of violence.
00:48:34
Speaker 1: That's number one.
00:48:35
Speaker 4: Number two the amount of privilege that Will Smith has as one of the most famous, wealthiest black people on the planet. And for him to, in my opinion, also another black man on an.
00:48:52
Speaker 5: On a on a televised celebrity, I don't agree with that.
00:48:57
Speaker 4: Like, if you wanted to press christ Walk afterward, then automat. Okay, you keep that in the cookout, right, you know what I'm saying, you we do that outside.
00:49:05
Speaker 5: To me, I did not agree with that, Selena.
00:49:08
Speaker 2: I don't Agreeelena.
00:49:11
Speaker 3: No, I don't think it's hypocriticals, Lena, because you just talked about.
00:49:15
Speaker 1: I like to have the privilege of white people.
00:49:19
Speaker 3: Yes, they make crimes and slap each other, kill each other. We talked about the monsters, we talked about the white collar crimes. You are mad now that he got the privilege.
00:49:29
Speaker 2: To But I think she's just talking about the point of society, how we do support I need her faith.
00:49:37
Speaker 1: As a means.
00:49:42
Speaker 4: But to your point, right, when we were talking about cowboy culture and and and even the light idolizing quote unquote drug dealers, all of that also has to is attached to a certain level of violence in this country that America glor fives.
00:50:00
Speaker 12: Right.
00:50:00
Speaker 4: Yes, to me, this was an attack on the glorification of violence in America.
00:50:05
Speaker 5: Take the people out. It was deeper than that, and that's what I was saying.
00:50:10
Speaker 3: Okay, still definitely call you a hypocrite on that one. We're gonna flip the script now, Kenneth.
00:50:15
Speaker 1: All Right, I don't even read it, your sweet sense.
00:50:19
Speaker 3: Nothing sparks your spirit in this empire like defending an actually innocent person or a person that empire would like to execute. I have done both, and it is a reminder that there is nothing civilized about the American justice system.
00:50:33
Speaker 2: That's a fact. Pull.
00:50:37
Speaker 1: Do you have any any pushback from from this one? Jason No.
00:50:41
Speaker 7: I thought this was an interestant one, just in terms of flipping it actually defending somebody is innocent.
00:50:46
Speaker 2: So we're talking.
00:50:46
Speaker 1: About you now, are criminal defense attorney.
00:50:50
Speaker 2: Let me give you the background to please tweet. So the background to this tweet was that I was in I was on trial before Judge Michelle Johnson, who's the administrative criminal judge in Queen Supreme Court, and I was representing Maurice Young. Maurice Young was a beautiful young brother who was accused of a shooting. Didn't commit And you.
00:51:13
Speaker 1: Knew that by the evidence.
00:51:14
Speaker 2: I knew that by the evidence. It was a video of the shooting. And I took that and I took that to my tech team and they pointed it out, and I gave it to the Queen's District Attorney's office and they the day before we were to pick the jury, they said, you know what, would would you mind? Would your godmind being polygraphed? First of all, polygraphs are are meaningless. They don't mean shit. I again, polygraph, I don't give a shape. Polygraph. Oh it's inconclusive. We're just going to go to trial. It's a one witness. I d Ken, you may win, we may win. And I was like, yeah, it's not about fucking winning. He's innocent. And I've been doing this a very long time in my career. I've had four other cases where I represented people who were innocent. I had prosecutors who were reasonable, and they looked at it and he's like, damn, Ken, you're right, and they backed off. This was the first time in my career where I had to pick a jury with a kid who is innocent, who can go to jail for twenty five years. Damn. And it made you realize that there's nothing in this system to protect innocent people. So I wrote that I was on trial when I wrote that, Fortunately he was acquitted. I will say after trial.
00:52:32
Speaker 1: I say, if you in a thing, you shouldn't be in jail.
00:52:35
Speaker 2: I was, but that shit didn't feel good. I get that and that that was what that was about without me calling, but I will say, is the Queen's District Attorney's office, Melenda Katz office. I'm not going to say the prosecutor, but we could.
00:52:50
Speaker 12: Google it, but you can google it in the comments, and it was it was really It shows you doing the trial and made me think about all those books that I've read and all those history and you look at black people getting lynched in court.
00:53:05
Speaker 2: Outside of court, you hear mobs running into grab the black woman or man out of their house and drag them and administer their own mob style of justice. And it was very sad to see what it did to that kid and his family. Even though we got to quit it, it's still it was traumatic and and I didn't feel good. I was angry, and it was a lesson for me because you can't you know, usually most people like I don't think anger is a bad thing. I think anger can lead to solutions if you, if you, if you reflect right, if you, but it was just scary. I have skill sets in that court room, and I had to check myself because I was so angry that my anger could change the dynamics.
00:53:55
Speaker 3: I will say, and and to me to full circle this and base it on everyone's point of views here and in terms of ever seeing an equitable justice system right, the reason why I probably think that's a fallacy and probably never gonna happen is because of what happened just right here. It still ran and triggered and operated by people, and because we operate in the emotion, and because maybe we have prosecutors.
00:54:22
Speaker 1: That want to win more than see someone and it's to be free.
00:54:25
Speaker 3: I think the reality of it is and this is where my mind works black and white. I'm very logical with things. I feel like knowing that is where we're fighting. It's a losing battle because it's based on emotions and because of the mental health or how someone was raised, or what their triggers are or what their thinking, it literally creates how we view.
00:54:49
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we can re educate, especially youth right in critical.
00:54:55
Speaker 1: Rights theopy from the schools now apart raduation.
00:55:00
Speaker 4: They're doing that now. But what I'm saying is you got to keep hope alive.
00:55:04
Speaker 1: Right.
00:55:05
Speaker 4: I think that if we continue to school the young people in our community and let them know what's right, what's history, who they are, then I feel like the future will be in their hands. And I think that, you know, why not stay optimistic, why not continue to fight the fight that our ancestors already started for us.
00:55:26
Speaker 5: We need to carry that man though.
00:55:28
Speaker 2: We we don't do one thing. We don't educate our children, and we don't educate.
00:55:33
Speaker 1: Our they educated.
00:55:35
Speaker 2: No, the school is a hub of the We have to educate our children. And I think that's the thing we lost in integration, and that's the thing that we lost in trying to be a part of America. And we need to be educating our kids. He said, bring back listen. I'm I'm I have a that's anomia segregation, and I think that's I don't want money from my oppressor.
00:56:02
Speaker 10: We got to give back the community. Yeah, yeah, we have to. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, we have to. That don't exist the ecosystems of commit we need to have from a micro level and do that.
00:56:12
Speaker 2: Though you can only change with truth, you cannot change anything without truth. And if you are unwilling to be held accountable or seek truth, it's smoking mirrors. And we got to get to that point. We're not at that point yet. I'm not mad, We're not upset enough yet. We're just not We're too comfortable.
00:56:30
Speaker 5: We are too comfortable.
00:56:32
Speaker 4: And I've asked, I've asked myself that question. Am I willing to give up my career?
00:56:37
Speaker 2: My career, suicide.
00:56:39
Speaker 5: My my family, my status?
00:56:41
Speaker 1: You are taken from you from a black woman that want to take money from you because from a hard time you might.
00:56:48
Speaker 2: Have to be You gotta be able to commit what do you call it? So here we knew and talked about it. You have to really really be willing to commit class suicide, which most of us are unwilling to do.
00:57:04
Speaker 5: And that's that's their object.
00:57:06
Speaker 4: But that's their objective, right, that's what they want.
00:57:09
Speaker 5: They want us to feel so comfortable and our little you know.
00:57:12
Speaker 13: Six figure second seventh figure incomes that we're making a year and driving this and Gucci da, and that we forget about the real issues, that we forget about the systemic issues, and that we're not really paying attention to how this is affecting our community.
00:57:28
Speaker 2: I thought capitalism ain't going to save us.
00:57:30
Speaker 1: No, No, I think well, I.
00:57:31
Speaker 3: Think the reality of it all and again, from a logical standpoint is we are all more individualistic than anything else, and so the idea of community and all of us coming together. There's a lot of people who only care about themselves and we are that.
00:57:44
Speaker 2: We just big headed animals, That's all I mean. I think my head is a little I do.
00:57:50
Speaker 3: I do want to leave on what a question for the listeners after hearing all of our perspectives, Now, what did you change your mind?
00:57:57
Speaker 1: Or are you going to cut the bullshit?
00:57:59
Speaker 3: I want to ask both of you if through this conversation y'all are leaning into changing your mind at all or are you leaning into.
00:58:05
Speaker 1: What you stand on? Ten toes down.
00:58:07
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm even more affirmed in my beliefs.
00:58:11
Speaker 3: And you know what, after hearing you, I'm even more affirmed. And when I'm for cow saying, y'all ain't stealing for me?
00:58:18
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I'm not excusing quote unquote people who steal.
00:58:23
Speaker 4: I'm just trying to say that it's so dropping a bucket right for Amazon or for the education education.
00:58:30
Speaker 1: Y'all can come still for me.
00:58:31
Speaker 4: No, I'm not saying I say, let's have a conversation, let's talk about I'm saying, let's fix the real issues. Right when we talked about white collar crime and just again the criminality of whiteness, which we're not really addressing because we're still.
00:58:44
Speaker 5: We're too focused on Oh she stole some shit, going like so what like, there's bigger issues.
00:58:49
Speaker 2: I want to put myself out of business. I don't want any crime in the black community, but I know to do that. That's a dream that I have. But I know I'm trying to work on practical things every today. I spent four hours in course roads juvenile said jail kicking in with these young people because I don't want it. I don't want them to hire. But I don't think I'm reflecting. I reflect about everything. I'm reflecting about what I understand, why young sister like yourself believes that, and why it's important to you. I understand. So I'm just reflecting on it, and I'm gonna.
00:59:18
Speaker 1: Keep Yeah, I really, I really enjoyed this conversation. For sure.
00:59:26
Speaker 2: I still stand in my shit.
00:59:30
Speaker 3: I do have a question for the listeners joining on this conversation. After hearing all of our perspectives here, have your thoughts on accountability in the justice system changed. Do you believe accountability is just a smoke screen? Will it ever become more equitable? And can you keep hope alive?
00:59:50
Speaker 2: Oh?
00:59:50
Speaker 1: Not a tacond it back to two thousand and eight.
00:59:52
Speaker 2: Oh Joe, that's Jesse Jackson.
00:59:55
Speaker 3: Jesus, I mean I'm a millennial. You're taking to Jesse jack and I take it to Obama.
00:59:59
Speaker 1: Okay.
01:00:01
Speaker 3: And for all of our listeners who really liked y'all's point of views, where can they find more of your thoughts and tweets and views and support you and keep making you money for them to steal it?
01:00:12
Speaker 4: You can follow me at miss Selina Hill on all platforms, Instagram and TikTok and miss is spelled with an MS.
01:00:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm off of Socialist right now, but if you you can look at I don't. Instagram is kJ M p LLC. I got a lot of ship, I say on that I can't say shit any I'm going on the silent retreat. Okay, Well, congratulation, no talking, no eye contact, no physical contact, no no reading, no writing, no no phones, no computers. Ten hours of meditation today. I'm off for ship. So if you see me in the street, say what's up? You get in trouble? Hopefully you won't, you know, look me up. I love that.
01:00:55
Speaker 3: I mean my I've I'm still on a long journey to sobriety and and no sex and no dating and yeah the first time.
01:01:04
Speaker 1: How long did you just leave that far? I am what am I in now? Within ninety days?
01:01:12
Speaker 2: Physical?
01:01:14
Speaker 1: Ninety days without a drink is a lot? Is that physical contact? I mean, I mean it's been four months, so no physical contact. No, I ain't kissing, I ain't slurping.
01:01:25
Speaker 2: I just said years. Wait wait, she did face.
01:01:28
Speaker 1: She was in the beginning, the beginning. Ain't you only do it two weeks?
01:01:33
Speaker 2: I'm saying.
01:01:38
Speaker 1: Two weeks. I'm going to be like, damn, you only did two weeks. That ain't nothing. You just waited two weeks? But that ain't you ship?
01:01:45
Speaker 2: No, I'm very happy.
01:01:46
Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate it.
01:01:49
Speaker 3: By the time this episode comes out of my anyways, I hope you enjoyed the conversation here. I don't yet have a closer. We got to write it in and I'm gonna make it fancy. But thank you guys for listening. It's another episode of selective ignorance. Y'all could choose to be ignorant, or you can choose to educate and elevate the choices up to you until next time I will see this.
01:02:16
Speaker 14: Thanks for tuning in the Selective Ignorance of Mandy B. Selective Ignorance. It's executive produced to Buy Mandy B. And it's a Full Court Media studio production with lead producers Jason Mondriguez. That's me and Aaron A. King Howard. Now, do us a favor and rate, Subscribe, comment and share wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and be sure to follow Selective Ignorance on Instagram at Selective Underscore Ignorance. And of course, if you're not following our host Mandy B, make sure you're following her at full Court Pops.
01:02:44
Speaker 2: Now.
01:02:44
Speaker 14: If you want the full video experience of Selective Ignorance, make sure you subscribe to the Patreon. It's patreon dot com backslash Selective Ignorance