The Men We Make: Magnus Johnson on Masculinity, Mental Health, and Modern Brotherhood

WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.360
Your vulnerability is your strongest tool, not only for your own self, but for others.
00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:14.000
You being willing to be vulnerable and showing everybody else around you, every other brother in our warrior tribe saying, This is me, this is what I experienced.
00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:16.640
It gives them the opportunity to say, like, holy shit.
00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:22.960
Magnus and Denny are willing to show their wounds or willing to eat their scars or being vulnerable with their true stories.
00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:24.000
I'm gonna do the same.
00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:26.800
And it gives everybody else the courage to finally say, you know what?
00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:30.000
If they went out there, they're talking about it, they went and got help.
00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:31.519
I'm gonna do the same fucking thing.
00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:33.359
They're no different than me.
00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:34.479
I'm part of the same tribe.
00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.600
What we need in our brotherhood is more men willing to stay.
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:42.320
I may not have a story about killing Osama bin Laden, but I got a story of perseverance.
00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:54.399
I got a story of survival that can help you and bring you back from your worst day to pull you out of that so you stop reliving it because then you can say, hell yeah, he's mortal, he's made out of flesh and bone, just like me.
00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:55.679
And if he can do it, I can do it.
00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:58.719
Yeah, man, and you're doing it because like when you bought the book, I was like, damn.
00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.320
Oh, he's gonna like make a decision on what he thinks about that.
00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:06.959
And then I'm like, and he's gonna be great, he's gonna tell me what he thinks about that.
00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:24.400
Magnus Johnson, welcome back to Security Hub Podcast.
00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:25.200
How's it going, brother?
00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:26.640
Good man, good morning.
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:30.560
Yeah, dude, it is uh it, you know, I I love reading.
00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:37.120
I tell guys that are dealing with the same situations and circumstances of being in this profession for long enough.
00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:40.959
You know, you take one too many hits and then reading becomes very difficult.
00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:44.400
But I will tell you guys, please work on that.
00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:46.319
Make it so you can read again.
00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:51.359
Uh start with audiobooks if you have to, but today we're we're here to talk about this the men we make.
00:01:51.599 --> 00:02:03.840
Uh, this book, like I was just telling uh Magnus before we started, it uh it caused me to sit down and I had to put it down and realize that, like, man, like you struck a nerve.
00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:09.280
100% lived experiences from my childhood were in this book.
00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:14.080
And I don't want to give up too much away, but uh man, we we got to dive in.
00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:16.639
How did you come up with this idea?
00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:18.639
Because I haven't seen anything like this.
00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:19.120
I haven't.
00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:25.599
I've seen, like I said, I was expecting to pick up the book and have you talk to me through the pages.
00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:28.400
Uh and it it was something completely different.
00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:30.319
And I'm glad I was surprised.
00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:33.599
Well, man, hey, first of all, thanks for having me back.
00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:38.960
Uh, on the last show, you had said when the book was finished you would welcome me back, and that was like a year ago, roughly.
00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:42.479
And I reached out and you immediately responded, you remembered.
00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:44.159
Uh that's awesome.
00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:46.879
You know, because people get so busy and they're like, what do you mean?
00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:47.120
What?
00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:48.479
And that was none of that, man.
00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:49.039
You remembered.
00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:51.199
So I really appreciate it and I'm happy to be here.
00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:51.919
Absolutely.
00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:53.840
The book.
00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.000
So I've always wanted to, I've always wanted to be able to write.
00:02:58.159 --> 00:02:58.319
Yeah.
00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:00.400
You know, I've I've always paid attention.
00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:12.080
I've always uh tried to be aware, tried to, you know, have my consciousness, my awareness on what I'm doing, but what's happening around me and all this.
00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:16.000
And man, no matter how much I tried, uh I wasn't really good at writing.
00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:25.439
And if you read the first kind of the intro, it says, uh, I'm grateful to my wife who never told me my writing was good until it was, like that shit's true.
00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:37.919
Because I had worked on the version of this book like six years ago, and she's like, I want to work on that, you know, and it was devastating kind of because I was really trying, you know.
00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:48.800
And then uh, so I don't remember what happened, man, but it was like a few months before I started writing, I was laying in bed, I was super resentful, pissed off, angry, frustrated, whatever.
00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:51.919
And something inside of me kind of snapped a little.
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.439
And I and I thought to myself, like, I'm just gonna do it.
00:03:55.599 --> 00:04:04.400
I'm not gonna explain it, I'm not gonna ask for permission, I'm not gonna work on it, like I'm just gonna say the things I want to say.
00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:16.399
And then in that moment, you know, I had put in a lot of effort, I'd gone to school, I'd practiced writing, but in that moment something kind of shifted, and I stopped trying to tell a story, and I just told a story.
00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:29.759
And then uh I'm jamming through about halfway, not halfway, but I'm jamming through the book, and as I'm writing it, because my original idea for the story was not two parts, it was just one part.
00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:32.879
It was gonna be the story of Darren, like all the way through.
00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:34.319
Oh well, three out.
00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:45.040
And uh and then as I'm writing it, man, something clicked inside of me where I was like, man, I wonder like this could be different.
00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:48.399
Like it was sad, it was dark, there was no hope.
00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:52.319
And uh it was still a cool story, but it didn't sit well with me.
00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:57.360
And like I I don't I don't wanna tell a story with no hope.
00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:05.120
You know, like I there's enough of them out there, you know, and uh I didn't want to do some corny, you know, happy American ending either.
00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:11.199
But I I did want to I did start thinking about like, well, what would happen if Darren, what if it had been different for Darren?
00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:24.399
And then I got the idea, man, that it's like, hey, two parts, uh the story retold twice with different circumstances, different environments, and different actions by the characters.
00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:33.360
And uh, you know, like if you're I forget the exact way to say it, but like if you're shooting and you're off a little bit, by the time it gets way out there, you're way off.
00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:44.480
And so that's kind of the idea for the book is like, hey, as people are trying or not trying, these little efforts later down the road make a huge impact on the outcomes of the people in their lives.
00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:47.680
Yeah, and that's a that's the type of perspective we need today.
00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:48.879
That's a reality.
00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:57.120
That's the thing that that as I'm reading this, I'm seeing the third order of effects in this life because I lived it.
00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:00.319
I lived it, and and not everybody course corrects.
00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:05.519
Not everybody has this post-traumatic arc where they're like, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna friggin', I'm gonna fight back.
00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:11.600
I met some amazing individuals, and it breaks my heart that they didn't have the same experience.
00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:12.560
They stayed.
00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:27.279
It was so polarizing and so definitive in their life that I can earlier in the in the the first few chapter chapters of the book with Darren, the way he's describing the just that the absolute defeat.
00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:28.879
The absolute defeat.
00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:33.279
I think that the the greatest thing is he's talking about the the apple pie.
00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:35.519
He always wanted the that sweet berry pie.
00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:44.160
And his mom has this moment where she tells him, well, you know, shit in one hand and wish in the other, see which one gets filled up first.
00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:49.120
And he goes to the store, and of course, there's there's none of the berry pie stuff, it's just the apple pie.
00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:56.240
Years later down the road, he's going to that gas station, he goes in there, he doesn't even look for what he wants.
00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:03.759
He just gives up and goes for the for the apple pie, knowing full well that's not what he wants.
00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:09.040
And there, and and it's it that same experience can be translated to so many different things.
00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:11.839
And we've we all know individuals like this.
00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:15.519
Maybe it's a dead-end job that you know that person's way too qualified.
00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:25.519
He could have that better job, he could have that better life, but the lived experience that person's had has just told him, No, this is what you you should expect, this is where you should go for the rest of your life.
00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:27.199
And that's heartbreaking, man.
00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:44.639
And not a lot of us have enough compassion and understanding to look at that person and realize behind that person's choice is a long line in his life where people have told him and kicked him down and put him down and put him in his place and told him this, this is what you deserve.
00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:45.839
Nothing more.
00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:46.560
100%.
00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:53.040
And then, like in part one, man, I want, like, if you noticed, there part one and part two is written differently.
00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:53.839
Yeah.
00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:58.079
So in part one, I want the reader to experience depersonalization.
00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:03.600
I want the reader to be Darren in that shitty basement.
00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:09.279
Thinking the way Darren thinks, feeling the way Darren, like having the aperture that Darren has.
00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.560
I want them to, you know, the the expression show, don't tell.
00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:13.120
Yeah.
00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:25.600
And so, like what you just said, like the apple pie part, that was my way of showing further that rather than telling, you know, like, okay, this, like that kid, that young man's got problems.
00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:27.279
They're like, hey, that guy's an asshole, you know.
00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:35.360
And like it may be true, but uh they have no idea what it feels like, what the thinking's like, what the actions feel like, the threats.
00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:38.639
Everything feels it's different when you've been depersonalized.
00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:39.120
Yeah.
00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:40.960
When you live in that reality.
00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.720
And uh the apple pie was a way of really highlighting that.
00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:45.120
Yeah.
00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:45.840
Well, you can't.
00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:46.879
Because that's comfort.
00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:47.440
Yeah.
00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:49.200
You hit a home run with that man.
00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:50.879
I it took me it.
00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:53.120
That was one of the moments where I stopped and I looked at it.
00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:57.279
I'm like, man, like this is this is something different.
00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:08.639
I've read a lot of self-help books, I've read a lot of books that talk in detail the the effects of this type of life, what happens to kids in this environment.
00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:12.159
This is the first book I've read that puts you in that place.
00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:21.840
Well, yeah, man, I wanted people to not like Darren and then in part two realize they don't like him because of themselves.
00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:22.720
Yeah.
00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:25.279
You see what I'm saying?
00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:25.759
Yeah.
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:34.000
Like, as you're reading this, like, and that's the beauty of it too, is when you go back and forth between part one and part two, you start looking at where you were judging.
00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:36.399
Because now there's that contrast.
00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:40.320
You might see yourself in the in the the wife in the house.
00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:46.320
You might see yourself as, you know, one of the laborers or the contractor or the police officer, some of the characters.
00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:58.080
And I wanted people to experience that uh black and white, that contrast, that because reading part two, you're reflecting back on part one and you're seeing all the forks in the road.
00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.840
And you're seeing those forks in the road are influenced by other people.
00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:04.559
This episode of Security Health is brought to you by Dr.
00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:06.960
Taylor Bosley and Preston Wellness Group.
00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:07.919
Let's be real.
00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:17.519
By now, a lot of New Year's resolutions have already fizzled out, life gets busy, motivation drops, and health ends up on the back burner.
00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:20.720
But here's the truth: there's no better time to start than right now.
00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:28.320
Prostition Wellness Group specializes in hormone optimization and hormone health, delivering personalized care and treatment right to your door.
00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:36.240
If you've been dealing with low energy, brain fog, or sleep, or stalled performance, hormone imbalance, maybe the midst of peace, Dr.
00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:42.159
Taylor Bosley and his team take a data-driven, individualized approach to help you get back to operating at your best.
00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:49.759
Security Hall Listeners receive 25% off their initial consultation when they use Security Hall 25 at checkout.
00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.399
Click the link in the episode description to find out more and get started today.
00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:56.960
And that those other people are us.
00:10:57.759 --> 00:10:58.159
Right?
00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:05.440
Like we have an opportunity to be somebody when someone else is at a fork in the road to at least say a positive word.
00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:12.960
To at least give a shit, to at least pay attention, to at least not say something rude at the lady at the checkout counter.
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:14.240
Because you don't know.
00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:14.960
You know?
00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:15.120
Yeah.
00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:18.399
And I just wanted people to experience it rather than telling them.
00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:23.440
Yeah, that's um, I have to imagine that took you a while to figure out.
00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:26.879
Because I I couldn't wrap my head around I couldn't have written this.
00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:31.200
I couldn't have figured this out, the way that you layer it.
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:34.879
Um how many attempts did it take you to figure this out?
00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:41.519
Like I mean, knowing that you've already you you wanted to write, you've had this thing within you.
00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:52.720
Was this something that uh when you initially sat down, it's been revised several times, or once did you settle on this idea of like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna take my attempt at this.
00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:54.639
How many times did you have to revise this?
00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:59.759
Well, like I was saying, I tried to do it six years ago, and it, you know, it wasn't there.
00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:02.960
And then I had that moment where something clicked inside of me.
00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:09.759
And then uh a few along a lot several years ago, I read uh Stephen Pressfield's books, War of Art, Turning Pro, Do the Work.
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.120
I read those, you know, years ago, and I applied that to Mission 22.
00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:15.840
I applied that to like other areas of my life.
00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:22.159
But then after I had that kind of like, fuck it, I'm just gonna write, I don't care what anyone says, and I started going.
00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:28.080
The only pause was when I wanted to add a lay a different layer to it.
00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:33.279
And that happened while I was writing, and I jammed through it, and man, I I edited it.
00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:41.360
I, you know, I think there's like three there's copy editing, proof editing, and then uh there's like three different edit I did the edits, but I didn't do massive rewrites.
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:46.080
So I'm not trying to be arrogant, but once it started going, man, it jammed.
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:53.440
But I had done so much work before, you know, and when the moment came, like the sale was already up.
00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:53.759
Yeah.
00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.799
So I didn't have to like get the rigging up, like, oh my god, there's wind.
00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:58.799
You know, I was already ready, I'm there.
00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.200
And it hit and I and I wrote it.
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:01.759
Yeah.
00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:03.919
The you're tapping into the muse.
00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:06.000
Um but I was ready for her.
00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:06.320
Yeah.
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:07.279
You know what I mean?
00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:16.000
Like I had done the prerequisite work to be ready, and I was at the the computer day in, day out, just doing the thing.
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.720
And I didn't judge myself while I was doing it.
00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.879
I didn't try to I didn't try to write for the reader.
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:26.320
I didn't try to write to be s smart.
00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:28.559
I just let it happen.
00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.639
That's uh that's hard to do with anything.
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:40.320
I think it is, man, but like you're you know, as you're a Green Beret, you know, like you train, you train, you train, you train, and then you're out on deployment and it pops off.
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:42.159
Like, how much are you really thinking?
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:44.159
How it's time to execute.
00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:44.399
Yeah.
00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:45.679
Yeah, you're just doing it.
00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:53.279
You're on the radio, you're calling Cavs, you're jocking ammo, like you've trained it so much that when it happens and you're in it.
00:13:53.519 --> 00:14:00.000
I mean, obviously we like take a breath and observe the whole battlefield, but in those moments of high intensity, you're just doing it.
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:05.759
And uh for me, the writing was kind of like, okay, I'm just doing it.
00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:06.639
Yeah.
00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:07.519
You know?
00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:10.399
Yeah, it it comes off effortless.
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:16.399
There's um I think there's something special to this format that you figure it out.
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:21.600
I didn't um I didn't expect, like I said, to to sit down and read this.
00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:27.200
But once I started, man, like up until I got to a point where I'm like, okay, Darren's getting a little too close for comfort.
00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:34.320
This is starting to feel like a lot like Denny back in the day, it it pulls you along and you're you're you're in it.
00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:36.639
You are in this experience.
00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:45.919
Um when it comes to that character development, when it comes to writing Darren, did you find a was Darren, is there a piece of you in Darren?
00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:50.639
Is this somebody that you were like, well, fuck, I'm good at writing this because I lived through this?
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:57.679
Or did you pick this through, live, you know, a journey through friends and mentors, people that you met along the way to build this character?
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.519
So, dude, like my life story is pretty weird and complicated.
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:06.399
You know, I grew up, my real dad was a uh Welsh, Scottish musician, rock and roller.
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:07.440
I grew up in a van.
00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:08.799
He's an alcoholic.
00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:14.720
We were traveling all around the world, lots of abuse, lots of violence, lots of crazy, you know, chaos.
00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:19.919
And then uh my mother remarried an electrical engineer Protestant from Texas.
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:21.679
That shit you not.
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:23.679
You know?
00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:27.440
And that's where we get the two parts.
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:28.720
Right, yeah, right.
00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:38.960
So I'm we're you know, we're listening, we're in pubs and bars and saloons and flea markets, and he my dad wore leather pants, he had a steel guitar.
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.799
I mean, he was like a jester.
00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:55.039
And uh then we go to like proper silverware handling, uh, etiquette, containing emotions, you know, it's just these very polar opposites.
00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:02.399
My real dad's not a Christian, my stepdad is kind of like a cultural crit, like he likes the religious ceremonies, but he doesn't really believe, you know.
00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:04.720
So that's like my childhood.
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:10.399
And then in my adult life, man, I was like running all around the U.S., driving around, working odd jobs.
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:17.039
And so I'm meeting all these like drifters and hustlers and road tramps.
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:23.759
And then I ended up in the military, you know, and then the regular army and then the special forces.
00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:34.240
And so, like, you start hearing everyone's stories, you start seeing patterns, you start noticing, like, oh, you're from like a trailer park in Alabama.
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.000
Oh, you're from a ghetto.
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.559
Oh, you're and but the pattern's the same.
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:41.200
You know, not everybody, but a lot.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.799
And so then the military really showed me some of these patterns.
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:49.360
And then when I got out of the military after three tours, I studied psychology.
00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:54.960
You know, I did behavioral science, and then I went on to a human services counselor with a focus on life coaching.
00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:57.519
And then obviously I run mission 22.
00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:01.200
And so, mission 22, you know, I've I've heard thousands of stories.
00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:03.919
So, is there a piece of me and Darren?
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:04.319
Yeah.
00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:05.759
You know, I hate to say it.
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:07.200
Uh, is it all me?
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:07.759
No.
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:16.400
But uh, it's a composite of patterns I've seen, of things I've learned in psychology from my experience in the military and my experience growing up as a kid.
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:19.440
And that was pretty, you know, pretty rough childhood.
00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:23.920
And so, you know, Picasso said art is a lie that makes us see the truth.
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:28.880
You know, not everything, if you read my book, it's not like, oh yeah, now I know Magnus' story.
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:29.440
No.
00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:39.519
Now you know some lies that maybe have a clues to some idea I've fabricated that once upon a time ago was near me.
00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:43.279
You know, but then some shit's just true.
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:47.519
So it's but that's the way it works for me with writing literature.
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:48.319
Yeah.
00:17:48.720 --> 00:18:11.599
Yeah, it's it's um it's interesting seeing these characters play out and the way we we can attach certain meanings to people, or just you know, the reader is going to approximate who that character is and and maybe a lot of times address that, kind of place somebody within their own lived experience into that.
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:20.799
And I found myself looking in in into these characters and seeing, like, you know, in those formative years, or even when in the military, seeing individuals where I'm like, wow, that that's okay.
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:22.640
That's who that person is.
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:29.759
Like I think one of the biggest things that we can take away from this is like we were talking about earlier, giving a shit.
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.200
What being like for everybody just to be willing to try.
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:35.519
We we're not looking for perfection.
00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:38.079
And we shouldn't be looking for perfection.
00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.960
But in this crazy convoluted world, like at least be willing to try.
00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:56.640
At least be willing to do something that will be a benefit to somebody rather than trying to impede or or be a dick in your day-to-day life.
00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:00.160
Yeah, because I mean, every like so many people are already full.
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:00.640
Yeah.
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:06.559
You know, they're barely hanging on, and they don't need that one extra little ounce of weight on them.
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:24.079
And I think another like I didn't intend this when I wrote it, but then after I wrote it, and then my wife and reviews and people talking, I'm starting to see too that like, you know, there's a message kind of here for the way we think of men and boys, you know, because like it's getting better, but for the last six years there's been a lot of shit talking on boys and men.
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:31.839
He did a great job of tapping into that in in early on in the book, in in two specific two specific places.
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.000
Um the obviously I don't want to give too much.
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:46.079
Um I gotta his interactions with both the doctor and the interactions with authority figures.
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:58.240
Um those stick out to me because, like you said, we are living in in a very weird time where we want to make meek.
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.720
And this episode is brought to you by Pure Liberty Labs.
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:06.160
Quality supplements designed to elevate your health and performance.
00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:15.200
Check out their full line of quality supplements, whether you're looking for whey protein, pre-workout, creatine, or super greens drink, Pure Liberty Labs has you covered.
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:19.119
Use my code security hall10 at checkout today.
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:23.920
Very so we want men to be very docile, but just to put it out there.
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.759
And I see it in everything.
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:46.400
Uh I I have a girl and I'm gonna raise her to be a strong, wonderful woman, but if if given the opportunity to bring a boy into this world, I I will not be racing them to be small, to think uh that he should be weak and he should be celebrated for how small he can make himself.
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:51.920
I think that that's something that's out there that's just I'm like, fuck, man, we're we're doing a huge disservice.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:21:07.680
You've got that, and then you've got, you know, these young men that are just made to be beasts, you know, and then and then they're just punished, arrested, beaten down, and you know, you break the law and all that, like, okay, it's gonna happen.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:12.799
But what I'm trying to say is like, hey, we gotta stop blaming men for every single thing.
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.039
We gotta look at our own actions, our own behaviors, our own cultures, our own communities.
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.880
You know, there's not toxic masculinity, there's a lack of masculinity.
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:21.759
Absolutely.
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:28.480
There's a lack of fathers, there's a lack of family units, there's a lack of professionals that actually give a shit about boys and men.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:32.400
They're falling behind in school, they're falling behind in all these different domains.
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:45.680
And I and I think I think my novel is a bit of a gut punch for people that might uh have in it in uh started to believe all that and haven't really looked, haven't really been paying attention.
00:21:46.000 --> 00:22:02.880
And so uh I kind of realized that after the fact, you know, I'm dimly aware, but then after the fact, I'm like, okay, this is like a story that people that in mental health, people that are dialogue, people that are caring about psychology, About all these things, like they need to actually give a shit.
00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:03.680
Yeah.
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:07.759
You know, we're f it's men and women's 50-50 with the population.
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.200
What they do, we do, what they do, what we do, they do.
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:12.960
Moms are bad, dads are bad.
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:14.160
Everyone's bad.
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.440
You know, it's not gender, it's just people.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:19.359
I don't know, man.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:25.039
And so it's just kind of comes out of the book, and I realize that like that's No, there's something to it.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:31.680
And there's um it's a big problem that I see, especially in the um academic world.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:38.079
Like in college, uh my master's program is a headache on for two reasons.
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:51.200
Um one, it having to have intelligent discussions with individuals that want you to respect and see their opinions, but don't want to do the same for you is just frustrating.
00:22:51.440 --> 00:23:01.920
Uh it's but sitting down at a class for family dynamics and not being able to advocate and talk about fathers blows my mind.
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:05.599
We can talk about every single way you can make a family.
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:08.480
And I'm telling you, there are some things that will scratch your head.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:12.480
I mean, the things I have seen in this course blow my mind.
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:17.440
Uh, two cats, a dog and and a single woman in Seattle, that constitute a family.
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:21.599
But uh a man and a woman, that's we are not gonna talk about that.
00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:25.519
We're not gonna talk about the importance of having a father figure, even though the dad is out there.
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:33.359
The the science is out there and it proves you have a better shot at a better life if you've got a dad in the home.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:34.640
Of course.
00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:36.640
I mean, yeah, statistically it's the truth.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:38.640
Of course, are there are there problems with men?
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:39.119
Yep.
00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:40.480
Are there problems with moms?
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:40.960
Yep.
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:44.240
But what you just said, that is a that that is true.
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:46.240
And we should be invested in that.
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:47.839
We should stop pretending.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:24:01.759
We should stop adding a bunch of bullshit studies that don't tell the truth, that try to like cobble together some kind of false narrative that sounds really smart, but it's just bullshit.
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:05.039
And uh I'll tell you this too, man.
00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:15.359
When I was out looking for an agent, about 90% of them are only looking for LGBTQ, feminist, that whatever.
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:16.799
They don't want what I got.
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:17.440
Yeah.
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:24.160
They're looking for diversity, they're looking for marginalization, they're look like, hey man, I grew up poor.
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:32.000
I was in the army, three tours, I got a book about mental health, about all this stuff, and like it's a good thing.
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:33.599
Don't give a shit.
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:34.400
Yeah.
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:37.680
You know, and and like they're missing out as far as I'm concerned.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:39.200
It's the craziest thing.
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:54.480
It is the most infuriating thing that um I and I and I feel like I get a pass with that crew, especially in college, because they can't attack a first generation American who served in the military.
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:55.359
Right, yeah.
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:00.400
The little bracketing of like exactly it's jocking for position.
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:04.480
It's like, well, you know, I'm originally from Panama and I'm first generation.
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:06.400
It's like, oh well, fuck.
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:07.119
Yeah, exactly.
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.960
And it's always like, hey, wait a second.
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:10.400
Yeah, wait a second.
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:12.240
Uh are you part of LGBTQ?
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:12.480
No.
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.720
Then it's freedom attack, but yeah.
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.480
It's like, but I list everything and I I used to not.
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:21.920
And uh at the very end of my undergraduate, I was like, you know what?
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:25.759
No, if they can list out everything, I'm gonna do the same thing.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:28.559
Proud father, proud husband, proud Catholic man.
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:29.920
This is what I believe.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:35.279
And I'm not sugarcoating it anymore and placating to the structure of the discussion anymore.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:41.920
Because I know, I know the importance of being able to say strong men save lives.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:51.200
Strong men work, and there's I'm tired of the suicide epidemic and and trying to blanket statement.
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:54.960
Right now, we have a real issue with men killing themselves.
00:25:55.200 --> 00:26:04.960
You will sit down and have a talk, you will sit down and have a talk with one of your friends, and he will sit there and smile, make jokes, share memes, high-five, give you a hug, tell you he loves you, walk out.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:13.680
Actually, he'll do maybe a dick joke or something lewd, and he'll walk out and you'll never know he's struggling until you find out the couple days later that he killed himself.
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:17.279
Men are carrying a weight that nobody wants to talk about.
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:19.519
And I'm sorry, it needs to be addressed.
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:32.640
We need to be able to say the guy that gets kicked every single day because he happens to be white, because he happens to be heterosexual, because he happens to be all these other things that put him at the very bottom of the fucking list.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:37.440
It needs to be understood that we have created this problem.
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:43.920
We have created this epidemic of people that feel like they don't belong here because they're not part of this celebrated.
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:58.319
Instead of saying that, hey, we're all Americans, we all deserve respect, we all deserve to be able to live a life and be able to the the pursuit of happiness, be able to go out there and execute and do whatever you need to to have an amazing life.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:03.279
We've created this tiered system that's artificial and people are suffering.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:05.200
Individuals don't want to speak up.
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:07.519
Dude, women are suffering because of it too.
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:09.599
Children are suffering because of it too.
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:16.240
I mean, men are definitely suffering, but then like, so are the women and children, so are the wives or the potential future wives.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:24.480
And just and that, but instead of having this like stupid debate in class, you know, like, I know you are, but what am I?
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:27.680
Because that's basically what it is with a bunch of letters behind your name.
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:29.839
It's just so stupid, you know.
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:32.480
Instead of that, man, I'm just like, you know what?
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:33.920
Fuck them.
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:36.880
And uh, like I'm doing my art.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:38.000
I'm gonna write.
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:40.079
I'm gonna do what I want to do, how I want to do it.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:44.000
I'm gonna talk to people like you who who care, who are interested.
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:46.160
And that satisfies me, man.
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:52.000
Like, it satisfies me that you want me on the show, that we're talking about it and all that.
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:56.960
And I don't they'll come around because what's good will stand the test of time.
00:27:57.440 --> 00:27:59.359
I think that's a hundred percent true.
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:06.079
And I think the most important thing is um being strong in your faith and resolute.
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:20.880
Uh, because I will tell you, man, like the right doors, the right opportunities will come if we just hold on to that, if we just focus on that, like, man, there's so many people out there struggling.
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:21.839
I struggled with it too.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:23.920
Oh man, I want this opportunity, I want this.
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:25.440
Leave it up to God.
00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:27.680
Focus on what you're doing, focus on the mission.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:32.240
If you absolutely love and you're passionate about your work, focus on that and the right opportunity.
00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:34.799
And and this, this can't be denied.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:38.000
This right here, like 100% cannot be denied.
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:45.839
You get this in the hand of every Green Beret of every, honestly, every man right now in this country, and they will resonate.
00:28:45.920 --> 00:29:08.880
It will resonate within them because this is something that touches on not just my experience, but it's gonna touch on every single friend that I have, and 90% of my guests have that have this lived experience because this the Men We Make is a true, truly the the best title for this because it speaks to the culture that we're in right now.
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:14.400
I I I'm at a loss for words, and I can't even I and it had to be you.
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:18.480
I I think about like one of the things I was thinking of, like, man, why hasn't anybody else written this?
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:22.799
Like it this has been an issue within our nation for for decades now.
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:25.039
Why hasn't anybody else written this?
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:26.720
And it had to be you.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:28.559
Like it had to come from you.
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:32.160
Um, I think you're the perfect person to write this and put it out there.
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:37.200
And I I don't think this is gonna go um uncelebrated, brother.
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:39.039
I don't I don't think this is gonna go long.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:40.160
I I'm lucky.
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:43.599
I get to have the one of the first interviews with you to put it out there.
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:53.680
But I want you to understand that this is something that will not only wake people up, but it'll it'll it definitely will change how people interact with each other.
00:29:53.839 --> 00:30:02.640
If you can just get this book in people's hands, they'll read it and understand like my actions today have a bigger impact than I than I used to think.
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:03.759
That's the truth.
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:06.160
Stories shape culture, they build trust.
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:09.119
And when they're told the right way, they move people to action.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:11.039
That's what we do at Security Hall Media.
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:20.400
We don't just produce content, we create authentic, impactful, and purpose-driven storytelling for podcasters, nonprofits, brands, and leaders who are on a mission.
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:28.880
From people who've lived real experiences and want their message to actually matter, from podcast production and video to strategic storytelling and distribution.
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:34.240
We help you clarify your voice, elevate your brand, and connect with the audience you're trying to serve.
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:40.640
If you have a story worth telling and a purpose behind it, Security Hall Media is here to help you tell it the right way.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:43.519
Click the link in the episode description to learn more today.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:44.319
Yeah, man.
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:49.200
I mean, like I've shared with a couple of my friends who are, you know, former Bean Brays, former soldiers.
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:54.400
And some variation in this story, you know, they have.
00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:56.720
And uh I I don't know.
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:01.680
I'm sure it's out there somewhere, but like so the psychological profile for uh an operator.
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:02.640
Oh, yeah.
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.119
You know, and there's a lot of trauma there.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:06.640
I got the Rand study.
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:08.400
I I'll I'll dig it out on my iDrive.
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:11.599
Yeah, uh, because I the that's one thing I study for school too.
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:34.960
Because you get to thinking, after doing this experiment, after having so many different guests, and you name them, everybody that's out there, uh individuals like Tyler Gray, individuals, individuals like Byron Baplay, all these people that you see having this great success, former Rangers, former Green Berets, uh, they will all sit down here and they'll share stories that are interconnected with my experience, with your experience.
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:38.480
And and it goes deeper than that to people that never served.
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:42.799
I've gotten messages from people, hey man, I'm just a friggin, I'm just a welder.
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:46.160
I found your show, but man, your shit resonates with me.
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:56.960
Like the the this idea that we're living this experience unconnected, on our own, like we you have to get over it.
00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:01.279
That common humanity connects all of us, man.
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.319
This is something my suffering isn't just mine.
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.119
It's connected to yours and people out there listening.
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.359
We've all experienced this sort of pain.
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:22.720
And if we could just understand, if we could just walk out the door every single day, understanding that like the same pain, the same problems, the same heartache I've experienced in my life, there are people out there that have experienced the same thing.
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:29.200
If I can just be compassionate, understanding in the worst moment of today, that's a win.
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:30.559
That is a win.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:32.240
That's a win and it's real, man.
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:39.839
And that's what I was trying to say is like, hey, whether it's like working with cops or regular army or special forces guys, like that pattern's there.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.160
Yeah.
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:45.039
You know, like these guys, these guys, you don't, you know what I want to do?
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:47.200
I want to go blow up IEDs every day.
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:49.200
Like, okay, Darren.
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:50.559
You know?
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:52.559
Yeah.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:59.519
You know, I was like, you know, I want to sacrifice everything for these guys that I love.
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:07.440
And it's like, man, that comes from a place of great love, but like it also part of that selection process to be somebody that's chosen to do that.
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.720
You know, that men are made.
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:12.319
You're not born, you're made.
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:15.200
And that type of man is really made, you know.
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:24.880
And uh I gotta say too, you know, when I was doing all this psychology in school, this things you're talking about, I experienced it the same thing.
00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:41.839
And I can't remember if I said this on your show last time or I just told somebody else or what, but I made a because I made a survey, uh, like a mental health survey, and what we had to do was they all had to pretend like they were veterans and take and take my survey.
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:46.480
So these are all people that want to become teachers, you know, counselors, therapists, whatever.
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:50.880
And it's like a I forget how many questions it was, but it's a certain amount of questions.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:55.119
They're supposed to pretend that they're veterans and take the survey.
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:56.079
Right?
00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:59.599
And I had questions on there like, I miss war.
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:04.240
My family trusts me a hundred percent.
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:09.039
Uh I liked who I was in combat better.
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:19.920
Like all these kind of questions, they didn't, and they're supposed to pretend to be veterans, but not a single one of them they answered how I think most veterans would actually answer them.
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:26.559
Now that doesn't mean they they wouldn't, but from my experience with people I know, they would have answered a little differently.
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:31.119
And it dawned on me, dude, like shit.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:34.880
Like they don't that it there's there's nothing, there's no connection here.
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:36.639
There's no connection here.
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:47.679
So I really but I'm grateful, dude, because like that psychology those two degrees spending time with in academia, very liberal, very woke, academia.
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:52.800
It showed me, and that gave that helped me write this book.
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:58.320
It showed me how the con the like polar opposites, what they're missing, what's happening.
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:07.280
Because like, you know, growing up, why trash, academia, army, like I'm seeing it from all these different vantage points, and I think that gave me the ability to yeah.
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:08.800
That's definitely a strength.
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:12.079
That's definitely a strength that shines in that in the book.
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:24.480
Um it has lots of different perspectives and the nuances, the way you described the the the therapist, the way she was really quick to dismiss, oh hey, I got 30.
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:25.920
You don't mind if we cut this short.
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:27.360
Let me just write this out.
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.880
That stuck out to me because I was like, fuck, was he?
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:36.480
That's that's literally one of my sessions with a counselor that gave two fucks.
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:41.039
And this was this wasn't like our our therapist at um at the compound.
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:59.840
This was somebody in the civilian world that works that you would think, at least I thought, because they're in the community, because they're right there in the location, that this would be somebody within one one just five minutes in that office, and you see all the things in her office, and you can quickly tell, like, oh no, no, no, no, no.
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:05.760
I'm not your primary demographic, I'm not your primary customer, you don't want to spend time with me.
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:07.920
You you want to talk to somebody else.
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:09.280
Uh, and I'll leave it at that.
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:17.440
But it's just one of those things where they they're so dismissive with the way they talk and the way they engage, and you're just like, all right, cool, cool.
00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:25.360
I'm glad I'm I'm a lot more stable that I'm not in crisis because if if a veteran came in here in crisis, it would not end well.
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:27.199
And there are people like that out there.
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:46.719
Well, that's kind of the idea with that with that character and that uh, I don't know, scene in the in the novel, you know, is like she had an opportunity to not be so inflated on her own crap, you know, her own bias, her own opinions, her own whatever.
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:49.119
Because, you know, she really cares about the lady.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.440
You know, and they're hugging and their solidarity, you know.
00:36:53.679 --> 00:37:02.400
But here's this young man who can't speak for himself, who's over medicated, abused, not very articulate, a little underdeveloped.
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:03.440
He is in both.
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:10.239
You know, he's slowly, he's slowly like reaching his milestones, and she doesn't see it.
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:14.400
And she's the one who's supposed to know.
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:32.159
And you know, but they're not teaching it because it's not popular, while they keep blaming these young guys for their problems too, you know, and so it's just this compounding thing, and I really feel like Darren reveals that.
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:46.639
Yeah, it's um like I said, it's one of those moments that really sticks out because if you're a veteran, if you've been in in you know, community care, you've probably experienced this yourself.
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:54.639
And when you read this book, I guarantee it's gonna be a comment you get from emails or or messages on social media like, that was my fucking doctor.
00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:56.559
That was my actual doctor.
00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:06.239
And it sucks because the amount of guts and courage that it takes to get that veteran to finally say, I'm gonna get help.
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:07.519
I'm gonna go do that thing.
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.480
I've listened to Security Hall, I'm gonna go do it.
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:12.639
And they go, and it's a raw nerve.
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:17.199
You feel exposed and you sit down, and that person doesn't see you.
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:24.320
They they see you as an as an obstacle to their perfect day of like, fuck, I you don't want to be here.
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:25.519
You're one of those veterans.
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:26.639
Let me just cut it short.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:27.840
Here's your prescription.
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:31.519
It's like, fuck, man, how many times has this happened?
00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:37.199
And but uh, and it's it's it's one of those things where it's like I'm still gonna champion it because not all of them are bad.
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:38.960
Not all of them are bad.
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:40.159
No, bro.
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:43.920
I mean, like I'm friends with psychiatrists and psychologists.
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:48.480
Uh if you read the, you know, Carl did the entry entry for my novel.
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:50.400
Yeah, he he's he's a psychologist.
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:55.760
He's got a PhD and a side, and he's got a bunch of other, you know, he's a counselor, all this stuff.
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:56.960
It's like six degrees.
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:58.960
Yeah, yeah, I don't even know, dude.
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.519
I was like, wait, holy shit.
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:04.719
This dude is an overachiever.
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:07.440
Well, he was one of my main professors, you know.
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:08.400
Thank God.
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:08.880
Yeah.
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:10.719
You know, he was in the Navy.
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:12.320
He ha he's done all this work anyway.
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:13.519
Submariner, right?
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:17.360
Yeah, submariner, and then um on a aircraft carrier.
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:23.679
Like uh, that's one hell of a person to have in your corner when you're trying to write a book.
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:24.880
No, it was great.
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:32.559
I mean, dude, you know, because we ended up being friends, and I talked to him a lot of stuff as I'm developing programs at Mission 22 or trying to wrap my mind around something.
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:37.599
Like he's an amazing resource and friend, but also very achieved academically.
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:42.719
And uh bro, he's been doing this for 30 years.
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:46.320
Tenured professor, psychologist, like the whole thing.
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:48.239
And he's like, Yup.
00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:49.840
I was like, dude.
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:56.159
He's like, that's how it is, you know, and uh he's the real deal, dude.
00:39:56.400 --> 00:40:00.880
You know, I'm I'm the I'm a human services.
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:05.760
I mean, he, you know, that's that's nice, but he's the real deal, you know.
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:12.079
It definitely it it definitely does give you that extra oomph when uh you know you bring that book to him.
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:16.559
I gotta imagine that was kind of like, okay, uh, don't be too harsh.
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:28.239
But well, yeah, and but I want him to tell me, yeah, you know, hey, do these medications or this or that or whatever, you know, and uh he didn't have critiques about that.
00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:48.159
So, you know, with my work at Mission 22, the coaching, I'm you know, I got a certification in mental health coaching, it's uh Christian certification in mental health coaching, and then uh primal master certified health and wellness coach, and then all this like I got some of this stuff enough to talk about it from some of that vantage point.
00:40:48.639 --> 00:41:00.400
You know, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I know everything about mental health, but I know enough to say for some people that are going through this what they might not be able to say for themselves.
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:02.159
Absolutely, man.
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:08.880
You know, I got enough, I I have enough of a lexicon, enough experience to kind of add a little context here.
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:21.440
That if you're like a welder that grew up in the trailer park and you having mental health issues, you might not know or see or be aware of what's happening in psychology and academia or this or that.
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:27.760
And so I feel like I got an interesting vantage point to you know speak to it in a in a unique way.
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:28.960
Yeah.
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:30.239
Absolutely, man.
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:34.400
And uh it it definitely, like I said, it's the perfect time for it.
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:45.039
I think more of us, especially with current events, I think a lot of people are questioning not only the how we got to this stage, but how can we come back from it?
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:47.519
And we're you know, it's one thing to say, oh, we're divided.
00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:48.719
We're in 2025, we're divided.
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:51.760
2026, we're at each other's fucking throats, man.
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:53.440
And it is bad.
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:54.880
It is fucking bad.
00:41:55.039 --> 00:42:00.159
It's bad enough where it's like, I'm expect like you can't shock me with the next news update.
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:00.880
You can't.
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:03.280
Like well, so you got all the big things, dude.
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:07.519
Like everyone's like, oh my god, this happened, that happened, everyone's doing that, but like, okay.
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:16.400
Dude, there's all these kids living in broken homes with no money, with a divided nation, with divided families, with divided parents.
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:21.039
They're fucking alone, broke, and it sucks.
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:29.760
So we're hearing the big headlines, but we're not seeing the millions of people that are just under the boot of all this being fed a bunch of bullshit.
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:38.960
And so, you know, we have an opportunity now to like be the kind of man we want to be, you know, to to to to be that example.
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:41.280
It's like we're gonna solve all the problems talking about it.
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:45.360
But I know there's some people I know that could use a hand.
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:46.079
Yeah.
00:42:46.320 --> 00:43:03.920
And that's a that's a thing that we if you hyperfocus on the news reports, if you say sit in front of your laptop or computer and just digest the stuff over and over again, it you feel hopeless and you're missing out on one of the greatest things you can do is is start doing something in your local community.
00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:05.199
Be a person of action.
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:09.199
I'm not saying you have to donate every dollar you have, but do something.
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.039
Be involved, just care.
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:11.760
Just care.
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:13.519
2525s, right?
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:14.320
Yeah.
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:17.119
Like, hey, check your your immediate area.
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:18.559
Where can you work?
00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:20.239
Then expand out.
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:23.039
And so I gotta ask you a question though.
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:24.320
Yeah, please.
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:32.800
That book, you when you read it, did you read right through it, or was it like you read a little bit, gotta stop, read a little bit more, gotta stop.
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:33.760
Yeah, stop.
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:35.039
Yeah.
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:36.000
Yeah.
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:48.639
Like I said, it wasn't something where it was like gut punching to where it was like, oh fuck, I'm sad, but it it did remote there's a lot of things in Darren's life that you know, yeah, I went through it.
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:49.679
I lived it.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:53.599
And having to be that little kid, that little part of me is still there.
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:54.960
A lot of it's healed.
00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:58.239
I've done a lot of work, but man, it is I feel compassion.
00:43:58.320 --> 00:43:59.360
And it's not sadness.
00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:03.280
I feel Oh man, like you're gonna be all right, kid.
00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:08.800
Like if it if if we could all, I wish everybody could have that that growth.
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:10.159
I know that's not to say.
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:17.440
I I I grew up really, really, really fucking rough, really violent, really painful childhood.
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:22.000
And my idea, what I went through my entire life thinking was like, well, everybody goes through this.
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.000
Everybody suffers and has, right?
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:25.360
Everybody goes through this?
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:25.920
No?
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:29.039
Like that was that was a big moment for me to finally realize that.
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:39.119
The moment I was fully 100% vulnerable and divulged my entire lived experience to the first doctor, that woman needed help.
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:49.360
That was a very shocking revelation of me sitting down in front of a person and then not having words and then feeling like, oh fuck, like it's like that's not normal.
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:50.960
Not everybody goes through this.
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:56.639
Like you, you, you made it through something statistically you should not have.
00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:58.480
And not everybody gets to that.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:03.440
A lot of people fall by the wayside, a lot of people become addicted to drugs, a lot of people go to prison.
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:06.800
A lot of people go through this, and then they become a predator.
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.960
And I have never seen the inside of a jail, let alone been put in handcuffs.
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:18.639
I've never, dude, I I panic at the thought of not having my registration in my car done on time because I don't want to deal with cops.
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:31.920
But I'm also somebody that I've never been to the point where I've in uh outside of a combat environment, I've never hurt somebody to the point where they were um, you know, in a hospital.
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:36.239
I've never done anything violently to somebody where they were hurt and were crippled.
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:38.880
Never, I was never a malicious predator.
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:40.960
And that's what the doctor explained to me.
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:46.480
It's like, dude, you go through this much abuse, you go through this much pain in your life.
00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:50.800
Like this is where you usually end up, and that's not you.
00:45:51.119 --> 00:46:02.320
And then the years later, reading this book and seeing that, I see the ability for this character to have their their happily ever after, their version of it.
00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:14.800
But I also see the other side where you don't, where you end up in a ditch dead on the side of a road, and nobody remembers you, nobody comes after you, or you go to prison because you did something super heinous and horrible.
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:17.199
And that's the sad thing about life.
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:36.079
Like you, if we continue this down this path as a nation where we see each other as being polar opposites and no common ground, and not willing to engage, not willing to just say hello, and we just see other people as a threat, as somebody to avoid, roll up the windows, lock the door.
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:37.119
You never know.
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:41.679
You never know what a just a good morning or a good afternoon could do to somebody.
00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:44.559
You never know how they could change somebody's perspective.
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:47.360
Like, and and that's that's an important thing, man.
00:46:47.519 --> 00:47:03.679
To think that I've had more positive interactions in far-off lands and far-off places where I was able to see common humanity and I see the way some people treat each other on just here in my local area, my local community, it blows my fucking mind.
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:12.880
A language barrier, and in war, but you find ways to thank each other, find ways to offer each other coffee or chai, like and show respect.
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:20.800
But here in the United States, you're so quick to tell somebody to go fuck off because they don't believe in your views or your ideology.
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:22.079
Make it make sense.
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:23.840
And I do, and I see it all the time.
00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:29.039
I make a meme that speaks to something, and I have five people, yeah, we'll now do it about this.
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:31.039
I'm like, what the fuck, dude?
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:32.079
Just laugh.
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:33.360
Just laugh.
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:36.559
Just scroll by, laugh, like whatever it is.
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:38.960
You don't have to attack each other.
00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:43.679
And it's it's crazy to me that we're here, that this is where we're at.
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:46.000
Well, they don't know how fragile it is, right?
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:46.239
Yeah.
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:48.639
You talked about third world countries, combat zones, all that.
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:55.599
Like, hey, the fragility, it's either broken and they're trying to keep it together, or it's like right on the edge, or both.
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:59.199
But a lot of people here, you know, they just run their mouth.
00:47:59.519 --> 00:47:59.760
Yeah.
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:01.199
Because they don't know.
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:06.800
They've they've sort of suspended reality because it's been so good for so long.
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:23.519
You know, depending on where you're you know, some places not so great, but they're not aware that all those words, all those things, all those way they treat people, like if you chop the beams out underneath the structure, it it does fall.
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:31.199
And when that happens, like it's it's not it's not just how much shit you can talk.
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:38.480
And so, you know, they just it's just this level of arrogance because I think they don't have perspective and context for how bad things can really be.
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:45.119
And there there's no appreciation and gratitude for how good things were you've tried to make it in spite of all these flaws.
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:47.360
And they don't care about the details.
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:51.760
They don't care about Darren's, they don't care about how they're behave.
00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:55.119
Because they haven't had to pay the price, like Darren does.
00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:55.840
Yeah.
00:48:56.079 --> 00:49:00.880
You know, I think um I think another thing too, that the old adage, hurt people, hurt people.
00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:01.280
Yep.
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:08.320
We have a lot of people that are fucking hurting, that are broken, and uh just zoned out.
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:19.039
Instead of medicating yourself to the point of oblivion, instead of chasing the next high, instead of chasing something that's fleeting, stay in the suffering, be able to work through it.
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:24.880
Be willing to work through it, be be willing to see life as as more than just chasing happiness.
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:27.519
Like, I just gotta get the next dopamine hit.
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:34.880
Like that's a that's a thing that it's hard to describe to somebody that that life's about suffering.
00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:36.320
You have to be willing to suffer.
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:38.960
Like, don't don't just tune out.
00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:40.800
Be willing to do hard things.
00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:42.159
I think it was Hunter S.
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:42.800
Thompson, man.
00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:45.119
He said, anything great's on the other side of fear.
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:48.480
You know, I think I think I think he said that.
00:49:48.559 --> 00:49:49.760
And I read that a long time ago.
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:52.559
I'm like, man, that's proofed out in in Special Forces.
00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:54.960
It's proofed out I'm trying to build Mission 22.
00:49:55.039 --> 00:49:59.119
It's proofed out I'm trying to build monuments, it's proofed out I'm trying to be married.
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:02.000
It definitely proofed out in writing this novel.
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:11.519
It's funny you mentioned that because I I I had a big opportunity and uh I told my wife, I'm like, I don't give a fuck if it if it's scary, I'm going into it.
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:12.639
Can I deliver?
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:13.679
I think I can.
00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:15.360
I think I fucking can.
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:18.159
And I'm but I'm willing to go into something that's scary.
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:20.159
And and how many people are like, oh no.
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:26.159
If I listen to every one of my friends and every good meaning person that was like, oh, don't do it, don't go do this.
00:50:26.239 --> 00:50:27.280
Don't, don't, don't do this.
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:28.800
This doesn't make any sense.
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:31.840
Like, go figure out how to do something else.
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:33.360
I'd miss out on all this.
00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:42.800
Now, mind you, this whole thing is is a lot of work, but I am able to put food on the table through this to doing this and everything that I built on my own.
00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:44.800
And it's scary as hell.
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:51.280
And it's built off of memes and it's built off of trying to connect with one human being at a time, one person at a time.
00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:53.599
And everybody else will tell you, well, that's counterproductive.
00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:55.440
I'm like, well, you didn't study UW.
00:50:55.599 --> 00:51:00.320
You didn't study, like, I know this is my thing because I understand the importance of the human domain.
00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:04.320
I understand the importance of one person, if I can help one person, it's worth fucking doing.
00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:05.599
And there's a lot of fear in there.
00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:06.320
But I lean into it.
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:08.400
And if I can do it, you can do it at home.
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:13.119
No matter what you're facing today, let that be one of the big things you take away from this.
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:17.119
If something is scary, lean the fuck into it.
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:23.679
If it's a new opportunity, if it's it's if it's going and applying for that job, going and finally doing your benefits as a veteran.
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:24.800
More on that tomorrow.
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:26.159
We're talking about that one.
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:27.840
Lean into that fear.
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:30.159
Be willing to go after big things.
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:35.280
Nothing in this life is worth doing if it's just nice, wonderful, carefree.
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:37.119
Being a parent is fucking scary.
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:39.840
Being a husband, being a wife, that's fucking scary.
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:42.079
That's a whole that's a lot of responsibility in that.
00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:43.920
It's way too much vulnerability.
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:49.360
But it's the greatest things you can do in all the great things out there, man.
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:51.119
Think of every course, man.
00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:57.199
Like, if I was too focused on fear, I wouldn't have done anything worthwhile in the military.
00:51:57.519 --> 00:51:57.920
Yeah.
00:51:58.159 --> 00:51:59.679
Like, yeah.
00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:05.840
And that and I think when I told you the story about like I was laying in bed for a couple days, man, like resentful, bitter, frustrated.
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:18.639
And you know, it's because, man, I wasn't accessing that part of me that I wanted to, and I hadn't quite just broken through or just accepted it, you know?
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:22.800
And uh because I have something to say, I had something to say.
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:39.679
I wanna, I wanna write, I wanna create this thing, but I can't get over the fear or the self-consciousness, or I'm not even thinking about it because I'm so focused on like I gotta do this job, I gotta do this, I gotta do that.
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:51.679
And I think, man, like that was a big moment for me for mental health, for being a man, for finding joy was like, no, I'm going.
00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:59.119
And uh, if no one wants to talk to me about it, no one reads it, if I can't get an agent, if publisher doesn't pick it up, like fuck.
00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:01.519
You know, I'm like, I'm going.
00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:11.599
And dude, the liberating, the satisfaction, you know, the the the deep satisfaction that at least I've done it once.
00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:17.679
You know, and I'm not talking about satisfaction of sales or satisfaction of people knowing or people appreciating any of that.
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:30.239
The satisfaction that I went there and I did it, I tried my best, and I stayed with it until the the finish line, not 90% and then stop, but all the way to producing it.
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:33.280
You know, that that feels really good.
00:53:33.519 --> 00:53:33.760
Yeah.
00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:35.519
And and there's a lot of vulnerability with that.
00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:38.000
Like we talked about earlier, like, hey, is there pieces of you in here?
00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:39.840
Like, ah, fuck, you know.
00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:40.880
No.
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:42.800
How did you how did you write it?
00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:43.679
Not at all.
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:44.960
How did you write it?
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:46.880
Really good imagination.
00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:47.119
Yeah.
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:55.519
And it's yeah, I tell you, uh, again, I say this all the time, and I've I've reached out to you before, Brene Brown.
00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:58.480
Someday you'll come up with her on.
00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:01.760
She got me the um, not of course, not personally.
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:06.800
It's like uh if you remember the old movie, uh Sidekick 1990s movie, yeah.
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:18.800
Uh Chuck Norris and uh Brandon, I forget the other kid's name, but uh, you know, people can mentor you or you can gain that perspective, somebody's like speaking directly to you when you're reading their books.
00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:22.559
And I definitely got that when I was uh reading her books.
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:28.159
I'm like, man, like every Green Beret should get this issue to them on their way out.
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:32.559
Everybody should read about vulnerability, everybody should read about understanding emotions.
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:41.760
And I've gone back to that book and several of her other books throughout the entirety of my undergraduate and now my master's program because it's so friggin' true.
00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:47.199
Your vulnerability is your strongest tool, not only for your own self, but for others.
00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:56.800
You being willing to be vulnerable and showing everybody else around you, every other brother in our warrior tribe saying, This is me.
00:54:57.039 --> 00:54:58.719
This is what I experienced.
00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:08.480
It gives them the opportunity to say, like, holy shit, Magnus and Denny are willing to show their wounds or willing their scars or being vulnerable with their with their true stories.
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:09.920
I'm gonna do the same.
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:13.119
And it gives everybody else the courage to finally say, you know what?
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:20.320
If they went out there, they're talking about it, they went and got help, I'm gonna do the same fucking thing because there's no, they're no different than me.
00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:21.760
I'm part of the same tribe.
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:24.639
And that's the greatest thing we can do for each other.
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:34.960
The great stories of combat and medal of honor uh awards and citations, that belongs to very, very, very, very, very few individuals.
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:36.320
And those stories are great.
00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:37.119
They're wonderful.
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:39.440
I'm gonna write some, make some money.
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:56.639
But what we need, what we need in our society, what we need in our warrior tribe, what we need in our brotherhood is more men willing to say, I may not have a story about fucking killing Osama bin Laden or some other known target, but I got a story of perseverance.
00:55:56.800 --> 00:56:07.360
I got a story of survival that can help you and bring you back from your worst day to pull you out of that so you stop reliving it because then you can say, hell yeah, he's mortal.
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:09.360
He's made out of flesh and bone, just like me.
00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:10.880
And if he can do it, I can do it.
00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:11.920
And that's what we need.
00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:13.599
That's what this book serves as.
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:20.000
It's not only a wake-up call for friggin' society to understand that like we have a responsibility to each other.
00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:23.519
Our life and our lived experience isn't just for us.
00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:27.119
It's to help each other, to help somebody out of the void.
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:35.519
Like I always say, once you start getting better, once you start getting your wheels moving, once you get back on the right track, don't just take off on your next heading.
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:39.840
Do a 180, reach back into the void and help pull somebody else out.
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:41.760
That's the only way we're gonna get through this.
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:50.000
The only way we're gonna get through this veteran suicide epidemic, this men's suicide epidemic, is that we start looking at each other and saying, this is our team.
00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:52.480
This is our, this is our QRF.
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:53.760
We're in this together.
00:56:53.920 --> 00:56:55.599
It's not gonna be big pharma.
00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:57.039
I hate to say it.
00:56:57.360 --> 00:57:00.960
It's not gonna be, it's not gonna be anybody else but us.
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:04.159
It is a grassroots movement to save people.
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:08.159
There are great doctors, there are great people in the VA, there are great people everywhere.
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:23.599
But these big entities, these big companies, they can't do what you can do, which is pick up the phone and talk and engage and encourage each other to find a little bit of vulnerability, to be willing to say, hey man, I suffer too.
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:25.679
I'm sucking, I'm not doing well.
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:26.639
Let's go get help.
00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:27.760
Let's go to the vet center.
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:29.199
Let's go talk to a therapist.
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:38.320
Let's go freaking put together a group of friends and let's just all vet in a healthy way, not with a bunch of alcohol, not with a bunch of substances, but in a healthy way.
00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:43.599
Go do a workout, do something because connection is deeply connected to mental health.
00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:44.480
And we need that.
00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:48.639
Now more than ever, even though this is great, we need that one-on-one, man.
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:50.320
We need to be able to help each other out.
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:52.559
And this is a great catalyst for it, man.
00:57:52.880 --> 00:58:04.400
Because I tell you, one of the greatest things that happened today, I was sitting here, we're getting ready for this interview, and I conducted my uh connected with my buddy Rusty, and we talked for about an hour.
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:08.480
And in that hour, I wasn't worried about work.
00:58:08.639 --> 00:58:11.039
I wasn't worried about any do-outs.
00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:14.639
I was just connecting with a great friend that I respect and admire deeply.
00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:18.239
And and how often do we do that and allow ourselves to have that as men?
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:21.599
I will tell you right now, probably not much because you're worried about putting food on the table.
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:28.079
You're worried about taking care of your wife, you're worried about taking kids, taking the kids to the friggin' pool or taking them to the next practice.
00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:32.559
You don't give yourself enough time just to connect with your brothers, just to talk.
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:37.039
And it doesn't have to be about mental health, it can just be reconnecting with a good friend.
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:38.000
So do that.
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:40.159
Be a little selfish with your time today.
00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:44.239
Even if you can only get a 30-minute phone call with a friend, reconnect, man.
00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:46.000
We desperately need it.
00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:47.599
Yeah, man, and you're doing it.
00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:52.159
Because like I'll tell you, I was I was apprehensive to, you know, when you bought the book, I was like, damn.
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:54.320
You know, I mean I was happy.
00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:58.159
But you know, what were you?
00:58:58.400 --> 00:59:01.920
You're like a warrant officer, you know, warrant officer, podcast show.
00:59:02.079 --> 00:59:03.199
I'm like, okay.
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:09.519
This is like if we were still in, you would be a you know, my superior.
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:15.760
And then uh, but here, you know, like you're you're one of my peers, you know, it's a little different, but you don't know, you know what I'm saying.
00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:23.280
And like I really at first, you know, like I before I you bought the book, I wasn't thinking about it that much.
00:59:23.440 --> 00:59:31.280
But then when you bought it and showed me, I was like, oh, he's gonna like make a decision on what he thinks about that.
00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:37.360
And then I'm like, he and he he's a green ray, and he's gonna tell me what he thinks about that.
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:40.880
You know, yeah.
00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:45.519
But then I was like, so I had a little anxiousness, and but then at the same time, I was like, yeah, that's good.
00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:48.000
Like, that's a good thing, man.
00:59:48.400 --> 00:59:52.960
And so, you know, what the story you said about your friend Rusty, that's not rustic knives, is it?
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:54.079
No, no, no, no.
00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:54.239
Okay.
00:59:54.559 --> 00:59:55.360
Rusty Campbell.
00:59:55.440 --> 01:00:00.239
Uh one of the best soldiers I ever had the pleasure of uh working with.
01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:02.719
And uh the military really disservice.
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:03.840
You guys are dummies.
01:00:03.920 --> 01:00:09.519
This dude should have been a CSM at uh 173rd of the 82nd Airborne till this day.
01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:15.679
And I I I I'm glad I told him that uh because now I get I get to uh uh brag about my boy.
01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:18.639
I talk about somebody that leaves a lasting impression on you.
01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:27.679
You know, sometimes you meet somebody that's so good at what they do, but what Rusty was absolutely a master at was being an amazing human being.
01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:39.199
Like that's the type of individual that deserves to have a phone call where you tell them, like, dude, you're you're not only a good fucking person, you're such a good person, you became a main character in my life.
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:44.239
I continued going in my life understanding that like I need to be a rusty.
01:00:44.400 --> 01:00:46.960
I need to make sure I leave a good impact.
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:48.400
Like, I'm not gonna always be able to do it.
01:00:48.480 --> 01:01:04.000
I'm not gonna always be able to be a good person, but I'm gonna choose to be a rusty with this, like as I'm mentoring or as I'm walking through in this career, I got to be cognizant and be aware enough to be a good steward of this profession, to be a good rusty, because the rest of the military deserves it.
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:05.519
They deserve the best you have to offer.
01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:11.360
And you're not gonna get it right every single day, but a lot of times when you put on, when I put on that uniform, I was like, hey, you know what?
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:12.639
I've got a choice to make today.
01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:20.639
Do I want to be, you know, the the grumpy asshole individual that didn't get enough sleep, or do I want to be the best version of myself and be rusty for the day?
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:21.840
And uh I would tell you.
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:23.440
Sorry.
01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:24.719
No, go ahead, go ahead.
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:35.199
Those dudes make it go around, man, because like my military service, I was pretty good at my job, but I I struggled, you know, uh when we weren't deployed with drinking, with problems, whatever.
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:36.960
I I had a I I struggled.
01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:41.360
But there's guys like the way you describe Rusty, you know, uh man, they held it together.
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:43.760
They were always professional, they always did the right thing.
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:49.119
They also they were they could be hard and strict and hold the line and hold up the standards.
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:52.639
And uh I'm a slow learner, bro.
01:01:52.800 --> 01:02:02.239
You know, it took me it took me a while, but now and later in my life, after the war, after getting sober, after you know, a bunch of stuff, man.
01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:15.440
Like I look back on guys like that while I was in, and uh I wouldn't be where I'm at with mission 22, with writing, with my family, if there wasn't men like that along the way being the way they are.
01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:15.760
Yeah.
01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:18.079
So I don't even know them, man, but I appreciate them.
01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:18.480
Yeah.
01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:19.679
And there's and there's tons of them.
01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:23.280
And the weird thing is a lot of people think that, oh, these are all Green Bray individuals.
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:28.960
No, the the greatest individuals that you will meet in the military are in your formative years.
01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:31.920
Not saying that the Green Brays are served with weren't amazing.
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:34.639
There are tons of great guys there, amazing individuals.
01:02:34.719 --> 01:02:39.039
Um, and they will get their day in the sun, but you guys get a lot of stories told about you.
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:48.159
But I look back on my time in 82nd and it's filled with young men, 19, 20-year-old, 22, 23, 24, 20, you know, they're not kids.
01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:50.480
We often say, oh, they're just 20-something kids.
01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:53.039
They're not kids, they're men, but they're young men.
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:59.599
And they signed up to go do something that was so beyond our comprehension, and we did it.
01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:03.519
And we executed and were able to do a task that was so monumental.
01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:14.960
And you're looking back, and you know, we we kind of like, you know, talk down about it, but you you go to war that young, young and young enough that you don't understand or fully grasp what's really going on.
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:35.360
And when you do it really well, it's it should stay with you and it should be honored and you should talk about it because for the rest of our time, unfortunately, unless we automate war, it's gonna be 19-year-olds, 20-year-olds, something that get brought into these environments to go do the unimaginable, the unthinkable.
01:03:35.920 --> 01:03:41.360
And they have a way of just doing it with tenacity and grit that will stick with you.
01:03:41.440 --> 01:03:42.800
And they deserve to be acknowledged.
01:03:42.880 --> 01:03:53.440
And I think it's one of the biggest problems with our veteran um veteran culture where we only relegate greatness to tier one operators, green berets.
01:03:53.599 --> 01:04:09.920
I wouldn't have been, I would not have made it as a Green Beret if I didn't have the Petersons, if I didn't have the the Rusties, if I didn't have the the guests, the McDevits, the Joy, all those guys, all those cats, that's the greatness in our military.
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:19.920
And we're not and and and they're oftentimes, bringing this full circle, these individuals are oftentimes a lot like Darren.
01:04:20.239 --> 01:04:20.480
Yeah.
01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:24.559
And that's that's the big piece that we need to focus on.
01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:29.760
It's like, you know, you could you could read this book and be like, wow, Darren's a piece of shit.
01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:32.000
But Darren can shock you.
01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:39.199
He can shock you with what's truly within him, what he has the ability to do if he's just given a chance, man.
01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:41.440
If you're just willing to give him a chance.
01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:44.320
I've seen TFC's 19 crushing.
01:04:44.639 --> 01:04:50.559
You know, like a lot of people don't know because they don't care and they don't ask, but I mean I was a combat engineer of regular army before I went to South.
01:04:51.039 --> 01:04:54.159
And I got I got I was in Ramadi in 2006.
01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:59.280
And so the Battle of Ramadi, that's as a regular army guy, man, and it was it was on.
01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:05.760
Yeah, you know, and uh when I think back, like I think about that a lot.
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:12.400
Yeah, I think about some special forces stuff and stuff, but like, man, regular army, Ramadan, no one k no one gives a shit.
01:05:12.559 --> 01:05:14.239
You're in it, it's on.
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:21.440
You got Missoul, you got Fallujah, you got Ramadi, and it's just and like we're young and we're we're doing it.
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:24.480
And you know, and then you get home or whatever, and nobody cares.
01:05:24.559 --> 01:05:38.559
And I remember one time, man, I was like, I I got through selection, I did all that, and I'm out hanging out in Fayetteville, and I like I meet some girl and one of her her dad or somebody's like some Delta guy, big wig, and she started talking shit about regular army guys.
01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:40.480
Like, oh, the kiddos or whatever.
01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:43.440
And I man, like, that was the last time I talked to her.
01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:49.039
You know, because like I I got a chip on my shoulder from being a combat engineer in the regular army, dude.
01:05:49.119 --> 01:05:50.800
We'll fuck you up, you know?
01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:58.320
Like, give me some Copenhagen, I'm coming.
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:00.960
It's true, man.
01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:10.400
Those are those are that's the undergraduate degree that pays back um if you have your undergraduate degree in conventional army in the military.
01:06:10.559 --> 01:06:12.480
That's you know, I I'm proud.
01:06:12.559 --> 01:06:13.360
I'm proud of that.
01:06:13.599 --> 01:06:17.760
And I I there's so many of us are like Darren in the in those years.
01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:18.239
Yeah.
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:21.039
And I think that book's gonna speak to them big time, brother.
01:06:21.199 --> 01:06:26.239
I think this book is something that um we need now more than ever.
01:06:26.480 --> 01:06:33.519
So please don't don't put uh don't slow down, don't put your foot on the brake, fucking kick it in the gear.
01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:42.079
Connect with everybody and bring this out in the largest platforms and can connect with everybody that can put this out and and get more publicity for it because it deserves it 100%.
01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:44.800
Yeah, it means so much coming from you, man.
01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:49.039
I I really appreciate your, you know, you're from where I'm from.
01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:54.800
Uh and you don't get there by not being a man of honor and a man of integrity and a man that tells the truth.
01:06:55.039 --> 01:06:57.440
And so thank you, dude, because that means a lot.
01:06:57.760 --> 01:06:58.800
Absolutely, brother.
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:02.480
And uh before we close out, man, um, any final thoughts?
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:09.199
Do you think you could um weasel this into a Netflix executive's uh door frame anytime soon and get it out to somebody?
01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:11.440
That's why I'm talking to you, bro.
01:07:12.800 --> 01:07:13.519
We have some friends.
01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:20.079
So um um we we have some period within our connective tissues, we can we can get this out to some people.
01:07:20.239 --> 01:07:28.960
There are some people right now that are working on TV shows because um this is written in a way where I I see this perfectly on Netflix.
01:07:29.119 --> 01:07:44.480
Like uh there's enough meat on there's enough meat on this bone that even if they want to, you know, make it you know put a spin on it to make it more palatable to everybody, I think there's enough there that could it could appeal to everybody.
01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:50.000
Like honestly, it deserves to have a part one, like the part one, part two situation.
01:07:50.239 --> 01:07:53.119
Like just flip it, like there's so much there, man.
01:07:53.360 --> 01:07:58.000
Dude, it's a it's a great opportunity for book discussions, a great opportunity for academic discussions.
01:07:58.159 --> 01:08:07.280
I think it could be formatted into some sort of film and like contract, you know, four rooms or whatever, like those type of films where you have these like different layers and stuff.
01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:10.159
And I think it could be a really unique experience, man.
01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:16.239
I believe it, you know, but uh other people gotta believe it and see it, man.
01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:18.960
So I hope what you're saying, I hope there's something there.
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:24.560
Um I'm totally willing and vulnerable enough to take a shot, you know.
01:08:24.720 --> 01:08:26.720
Um, you already did the hard part.
01:08:26.800 --> 01:08:33.760
The hard part was writing it and getting uh getting it published, and um now and yeah, now we just gotta freaking figure out the right people to connect you to.
01:08:33.840 --> 01:08:38.000
And the veteran community and and the the bro network is big enough.
01:08:38.159 --> 01:08:40.079
We have we we gotta get this happening.
01:08:40.399 --> 01:08:43.439
We start out start an Instagram campaign.
01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:50.640
Well, man, I hope so, you know, because like the Bro Network, the veteran world, like I don't I just want to make my art, man.
01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:51.439
Like, yeah.
01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:57.039
I want to talk about it, I want to share it, but uh how do I say this?
01:08:57.840 --> 01:09:00.239
I didn't write it to do that.
01:09:00.560 --> 01:09:01.119
Yeah.
01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:05.279
I know that that could happen and I welcome it.
01:09:06.159 --> 01:09:08.960
But this is my attempt to do something real.
01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:09.760
Yeah.
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:13.680
And where it goes from there, man, is like not just up to me.
01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:14.640
Heck yeah.
01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:16.880
Well, brother, where can we get the book?
01:09:17.199 --> 01:09:19.600
Yeah, uh, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all over.
01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:21.920
It's The Men We Make by Magnus Johnson.
01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:24.960
Uh, it's on a lot of different areas to purchase it.
01:09:25.119 --> 01:09:30.000
Um, it's just out, so uh you know, it's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Men We Make.
01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:30.800
Heck yeah.
01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:32.640
Guys, do me a favor, you know Spiel.
01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:36.399
Go ahead and pause, go to episode description, click those links, get the book today.
01:09:36.560 --> 01:09:37.439
I'll do you one better.
01:09:37.520 --> 01:09:39.760
By the time this I'm gonna push this.
01:09:39.920 --> 01:09:44.880
Um see if I can get make a short phone call to the editor, tell them to bump a couple episodes.
01:09:45.039 --> 01:09:51.039
If not, I'm telling you right now, it is the 5th, whenever this comes out.
01:09:51.199 --> 01:10:01.359
As soon as you hear it, send me a message on uh Instagram, security hot podcast on IG, or send me an email, sechaltpodcast gmail.com, and I will send you a copy.
01:10:01.600 --> 01:10:02.479
The first ten people.
01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:03.760
But you gotta be fast, dog.
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:04.720
Gotta be fast.
01:10:04.880 --> 01:10:05.439
Gotta be fast.
01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:07.359
Gotta be quick on those fingers.
01:10:07.520 --> 01:10:10.159
And if you miss out on it, just click the link and buy yourself.
01:10:10.319 --> 01:10:11.520
I'd really appreciate it if you would.
01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:16.560
And do me one last favor, head on over to Spotify Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to this, leave me a review.
01:10:16.640 --> 01:10:17.680
It doesn't have to be big.
01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:18.560
A couple words.
01:10:18.720 --> 01:10:19.279
I like it.
01:10:19.439 --> 01:10:20.319
Denny's okay.
01:10:20.479 --> 01:10:21.439
Magnus is cool.
01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:23.359
Whatever you want to do in there, it's all up to you.
01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:24.479
Just make it five stars.
01:10:24.560 --> 01:10:25.199
Don't be a dick.
01:10:25.279 --> 01:10:26.479
Don't give it a one star review.
01:10:26.640 --> 01:10:27.039
Come on.
01:10:27.199 --> 01:10:27.760
Come on now.
01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:28.800
Help a brother out.
01:10:28.960 --> 01:10:29.840
I appreciate you guys.
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:32.079
Magnus, thank you so much for being here, brother.
01:10:32.239 --> 01:10:34.479
Thank you for writing this book.
01:10:34.640 --> 01:10:36.159
And uh, we'll see you all next time.
01:10:36.319 --> 01:10:37.840
Until then, take care.