WEBVTT
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00:00:03.520The dream would be to come out and be full-time employee of coffee.
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00:00:07.360Just how accepting people are of rubbish coffee.
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00:00:11.039The biggest challenge would be if you're with your partner doing a business.
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00:00:13.759You have to schedule in that time.
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00:00:25.760Hi, I'm Chris Schropsol and welcome to School Talk, the podcast where we have meaningful conversations about education, learning, and those issues that matter most to students, to parents and to teachers.
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00:00:33.679With over 10 years' experience in international schools, I've seen firsthand the challenges but also the opportunities in learning today.
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00:00:42.320Each week I'll sit down with inspiring guests to share stories, insights, and strategies on how we can help shape the future of education.
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00:00:47.439Whether you're here to grow, to learn, or to spark change, this is the place for you.
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00:00:49.359So let's get started.
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00:00:50.240Good morning.
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00:00:51.920Welcome back to another episode of School Talk.
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00:00:54.560This week I'm joined by Joan Chelsea from Hoyho Coffee.
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00:00:55.920So, first of all, thank you for coming on.
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00:00:56.960Thank you for having us.
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00:00:58.240Yeah, thanks for having us.
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00:01:03.840And today we're going to talk about your journey, Hoyho Coffee, what's got you to where we are now.
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00:01:04.879So start us off.
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00:01:05.359Who are you?
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00:01:06.159What do you do?
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00:01:07.439And yeah, let's go from there.
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00:01:08.640I'm Chelsea.
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00:01:15.519I am the co-founder of Hoyho Coffee, and I kind of do Hoyho Coffee full-time.
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00:01:18.640Basically, just everything to do with the business.
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00:01:21.200Yeah, I don't think she's valued herself enough there.
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00:01:29.280She she looks, she's done absolutely everything, uh, from the branding to the um finances, the logistics, everything.
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00:01:34.640Um, and yeah, I'm I'm sort of there to support when I can.
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00:01:37.280Um, so I'm also a co-founder.
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00:01:38.400My name's Joe.
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00:01:41.120Um, I teach full-time at school.
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00:01:46.879Um, and then every other spare minute I have, I'm uh helping with the coffee.
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00:01:56.480Uh we've kind of looked at trying to get to more events recently, so that's been my biggest role um communicating with you're kind of like the networker, aren't you?
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00:01:58.000The social person.
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00:01:59.920I'm the one that kind of sits behind the closed doors.
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00:02:02.400You don't like the social stuff too much.
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00:02:03.120Yeah.
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00:02:08.240Me and Chelsea have been on a little bit of a kind of personal growth journey.
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00:02:12.000Um, one of those being our sort of diet and nutrition.
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00:02:15.120And we looked at like our gut health as one of them.
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00:02:22.639So on that journey, we kind of started having more foods that were more relevant to looking after ourselves and our gut in particular.
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00:02:33.680And one of the things we learned was the coffee bean is so good for you, and it's a fermented food, so you actually can have it, and it it really does affect your gut in a good way.
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00:02:48.800So then, when we looked at how can we then turn that into a business, those ideas came together of well, there's not enough coffee being offered, and there's also not um the quality coffee, and people aren't don't know that it's actually really good for you.
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00:02:52.719Um, so that kind of sparked the should we give it a go?
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00:03:03.680Yeah, and I think the the decaf side came from us realizing that to get all of these health benefits from coffee, you need you know, like five or six cups a day.
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00:03:07.199And for a lot of people their caffeine intolerance is not great.
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00:03:10.000If I had six coffees, I would be shaken.
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00:03:13.120Yeah, for their heart, etc.
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00:03:16.319So that's when we kind of discovered the decaf route.
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00:03:31.280You can still get all of these health benefits from decaf, and then you know, we were going around all different cafes asking for decaf, trying different ones, and we found that it just doesn't really exist in Jabai, or it does, and it's like you know, powdered rubbish.
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00:03:36.240So we were like, Yeah, well, yeah, they either didn't do it or it was just really poor quality.
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00:03:44.080So we just wanted to we were like that there has to be a way to have great tasting coffee and it still be deca.
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00:03:46.879Yeah, so that kind of sent us on another yeah.
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00:03:52.560I spent months just like outreaching to all parts of the world, like, can you send me some samples?
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00:03:54.800And the coffee industry is so good like that.
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00:03:57.919Like it's that it's a massive community, and people like, yeah, take this.
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00:04:06.159I was getting it from uh Colombia, from Brazil, from parts of Africa, just all willing to be like, Yeah, I'll get I'll get you a sample across.
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00:04:12.159Um we went to try and find the rarest penguin in the world, which is the yellow-eyed penguin.
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00:04:13.680Oh, it does mean the penguin.
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00:04:15.439Oh, I got it.
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00:04:27.439We we went to this like cliffside, and they basically built a container into the cliffside, so it's all camouflaged and it's got the life cycle of the penguin, it's got the feeding times, blah blah.
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00:04:30.240Um, but we must have been there for what?
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00:04:34.000About three hours, yeah, just waiting, waiting.
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00:04:37.680It's getting dark and dark, and I'm like, come on, let's go, we're not gonna see it.
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00:04:43.519And funnily enough, it's literally popped out of the sea, no bigger than this.
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00:04:45.199Like 30 centimetres, yeah.
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00:04:50.000So small, and it just like was so special.
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00:04:55.839And then we were like, okay, yellow eyed penguin coffee again doesn't really sound great.
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00:04:59.360So we were like, Well, what's the Maori term for yellow-eyed penguin?
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00:05:04.639And it's hoiko, we were like and straight away we were like it just clicked, it just felt right.
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00:05:08.800Like not only the name, but like the story behind it, the rarity, the rarity of it.
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00:05:16.240Of being able to see one, and yeah, we wanted to find like good decaf, and yeah, it just kind of all took off from it.
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00:05:17.120Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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00:05:20.000Because when I was saying before we started, like how do you pronounce it?
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00:05:21.439I googled it and that's what came up.
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00:05:22.959But I didn't think it would be that.
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00:05:24.319I thought it might be a different story behind it.
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00:05:25.360But yeah, I love that.
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00:05:29.199And you said there you're still teaching, you're doing this full-time.
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00:05:31.839Yeah, how does that dynamic work between you?
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00:05:34.240How you split in those responsibilities?
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00:05:43.839Um, so I obviously we both have access to like the website and the social media, so we can kind of do that wherever wherever we are.
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00:05:52.240But in terms of like day-to-day stuff, like she's so much better at the branding, the um aesthetic side of things.
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00:05:58.000She's very good at like the numbers and the um sort of like background stuff.
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00:06:06.079Where the business side business side of things, because I just don't feel like I have the capacity to do but both that and teaching at the moment.
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00:06:11.920Um, but what I do find quite that lends itself quite well is I have time to speak to people.
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00:06:15.199So a quick voice note, a quick call, a quick message.
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00:06:17.360I can I think that's your strength though, isn't it?
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00:06:22.480And being a teacher is why you're very comfortable like making those connections and talking to people.
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00:06:26.079I'd prefer to just sit down and like get on with things like on my own.
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00:06:29.040So it's it's kind of just naturally worked out.
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00:06:38.399No, it has it's naturally just we've just kind of leaned into what we're good at, and then sometimes we have to come together with with things that uh problems arise, or yeah.
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00:06:46.160I mean, yeah, even the podcast this coming up, we I did a race last week, just started talking on the the start line, and yeah, it went from there from there.
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00:06:48.399So, how do you feel working with each other?
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00:06:58.959Like you know that I'm controlling with things, but and like the more that you've understood that and you've like just allowed that to be, the better it is.
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00:07:03.439Like sometimes with design stuff, I always tell people the story because I find it funny.
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00:07:14.480He he'll like come in and you know, I've you know, been spending the day like doing a logo or whatever, and he and he'll look at it and I'll go, just try a different font.
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00:07:18.879And I'm like it was gruising, like, okay.
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00:07:25.839But like it kind of works a little bit, doesn't it?
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00:07:28.319Like, I I don't take it personally.
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00:07:29.839I'm like, okay, we'll try a different font.
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00:07:33.839And then a lot of the time it works, doesn't it?
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00:07:42.079I'm like, okay, that did actually need because when you're just on it on your own the whole time, you you kind of need that outside view.
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00:08:01.519But it's nice that he doesn't come in and he's like, no, like I think we should, you know, yeah, you you do appreciate what I do, and it's just like adding little bits in in a way that it's not too I think I think the biggest challenge we've found, like being together and having a business together, is just when to switch off.
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00:08:02.000Yeah.
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00:08:12.399We we actually had a conversation weirdly yesterday, like this is the first time in like 14-15 months, because we only started last year, where we've just not spoken about the business.
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00:08:17.519Like it's just been nice to just switch off and enjoy each other's time.
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00:08:25.680So I think the biggest challenge would be if you're with your partner doing a business, you have to schedule in that time because it just creeps into everything.
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00:08:28.800You're doing the dishes, you're doing you're going after dinner, you're going for a walk.
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00:08:42.000It's like it's like you you'd get home from school and it it's like because I've not seen you all day, I'm like straight in with you know, problems or something, and it's just it's it becomes all consuming, doesn't it?
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00:08:45.039And it that's probably been the most difficult thing.
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00:08:45.600Yeah.
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00:08:51.679I think that's exactly it, knowing when to switch off, but then at the same time, you probably can't switch off.
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00:08:58.480So if you switch off, then it's taking a back step, and when you're starting something so fresh, you can't take a back step.
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00:09:00.080Um talk to us a bit about that.
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00:09:01.679You did have a shop and now you don't.
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00:09:03.919What was the the thought process behind that?
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00:09:06.080Just rent in Dubai.
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00:09:08.000Just expensive, yeah.
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00:09:14.000I think we we look, I think we spoke when I'm when I met you, uh the race.
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00:09:33.120Like we we have learned so much, like just going all in, like no no no no kind of like restrictions, we've just gone all in, money, time, effort, and yeah, people would outlook from the outside like well you've made a mistake there, you should have just done it slowly and dripped in.
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00:10:01.600But the biggest learning curve has been location location for us, like it's yeah, I don't know what your perception is of coffee shop, but for we felt like you have to have a physical location to be successful in a aspect that could be your vision of success, but it's really not like if you want to be a profitable coffee business, like that is so far from the truth in the first years of your business.
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00:10:18.320Like, you unless you've got a very good financial backing, you've got a lot of savings, then I think we we were most concerned about the weather here because we originally wanted to just do a trailer for events, but then we were like, Well, what about the summer season?
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00:10:36.720Because that's like six months where you know we're not gonna be so we were like, well, if we find a location where we can be um inside for like you know the whole year, and then we can get to events when it's winter, that will obviously be better for us.
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00:10:47.679But the I think everybody thinks of coffee as that, oh you know, it's a really profitable business, but when you're in it, it's just it's not at all.
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00:11:10.320Um, and I think that's one of the biggest things we learn, like the expenses of everything, rent being a massive one, but then everything else with your staff in and all your ingredients, and then all the permits and licenses, and you know, it just adds up so much, and you end up you're just putting in more money each month, and you're like we're just like not even covering our costs here.
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00:11:15.759So it's from the outside it looks successful, but like to have a location is a lot of money.
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00:11:18.480Um, and we made a really difficult decision.
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00:11:21.120We we'd done one year, it was meant to be two years.
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00:11:25.039Um, and we were like, look, let's cut our losses, let's come out.
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00:11:27.840We've got the trailer, it can be taken everywhere else.
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00:11:33.279We've given it a go, we've built up a sort of like recognition of who we are.
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00:11:38.320Um we've always had great feedback, so now let's take it to different different places.
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00:11:44.000So and I'd say you'd learnt so much in that first year that if you hadn't have done it, you might not be where you are now.
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00:11:45.440So it's that, don't we?
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00:11:48.320Like if we do it did it again, we would do it so differently.
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00:11:55.679But the lessons that we've learnt doing it this way is probably the reason why we still just about have a business.
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00:11:57.600But I feel like you have to go all in.
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00:12:06.080Because if you don't go all in and just do it not half-heartedly, but if you're both working full-time on something else, then your other job still has to take priority.
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00:12:06.720Yeah.
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00:12:10.720Because that's probably what's given you your wage.
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00:12:16.000And if you don't go, but if you go all in, you like we said before, your motivation has to be there.
00:12:16.399 -->
00:12:20.240So whether you like it or not, you're getting home from work and you're talking to work.
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00:12:23.840So like this needs to happen, yeah.
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00:12:29.600Um your role as a teacher, how does that help or hinder, let's say, Hoy Ho Coffee?
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00:12:41.759Um, I think as a like for me as a P teacher, um, I know kind of the values that I can kind of bring across into this job.
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00:12:50.159So I've gone from teaching students to then actually being in charge of staff members, which is quite a weird dynamic.
00:12:50.240 -->
00:12:57.440Like I've always been on the other side of an interview, so I'm now using that experience to interview staff members.
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00:13:01.120Yeah, so I think that's kind of um correlated quite well.
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00:13:03.600It's like transferred across transferable skills.
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00:13:09.039Um but I think like the patience of being a teacher has massively helped.
00:13:09.279 -->
00:13:16.799Um you kind of have even more patience than me, um and you're not a teacher, it's probably why you should be a teacher.
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00:13:24.399Um but um no, like I think the I think we spoke before, like the time restrictions are a little bit difficult.
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00:13:36.080Um I want to go and do so much in my time with my time in the day, but I can't because I've got to put teaching as my first job and then kind of hoy-ho second.
00:13:36.240 -->
00:13:43.519Um the the dream would to be to come out and be full-time Hoyho Coffee, but we're not at that position yet.
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00:13:52.480And the the teaching out here gives you such a good package and such a good life to kind of you need to be ready to kind of like turn that down.
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00:14:03.440Um I think as well though, like you probably downplay it a little bit, but with the teaching, like it's very hard for you to switch off, like especially during the winter season.
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00:14:22.559Well, if we've got events on a weekend, you're finishing school, um, and then it's like for the events, you know, a lot of the events, we're actually having to set up the day before, so it's like we're out, we're moving the truck, or we're setting up a kiosk, um, and that's at least four or five hours.
00:14:22.720 -->
00:14:25.679Then we get home, and then we're up maybe like two or three a.m.
00:14:25.840 -->
00:14:35.039to like get to a location ready for the event, and then we just start to like um relax, and then it's like right now, I need to get ready for school.
00:14:35.120 -->
00:14:36.799Yeah, and then you're up again for school.
00:14:36.879 -->
00:14:41.919So I think you've done very well at kind of balancing the both.
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00:14:48.720October was the busiest month, so we I think the the record we had was like three events in one week.
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00:14:50.159Oh, in a week.
00:14:50.720 -->
00:14:52.639Oh wow, yeah.
00:14:52.799 -->
00:14:57.440Um, so like a Wednesday night, then a Friday, Saturday, Sunday event.
00:14:57.519 -->
00:14:57.679Yeah.
00:14:57.840 -->
00:15:04.720So we're the logistics of that, because it's just us, we I've then got to balance that with with the teachers.
00:15:04.879 -->
00:15:05.519That that was tough.
00:15:05.759 -->
00:15:08.799We're always in the car, and we're always like, people just have no idea.
00:15:09.679 -->
00:15:16.080And we're like, we've had no sleep, and we're driving to the location for like the second time at like three in the morning, and we're like, people just don't get it.
00:15:17.279 -->
00:15:23.039That's that uh Jimmy Carr quote, everyone's jealous of what you've got, no one's jealous of how you got there.
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00:15:23.759Yeah, yeah.
00:15:24.399 -->
00:15:31.360One of those things you just gotta keep going and the the hard work behind it, yeah, no one will see, but keep going.
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00:15:33.039Hopefully it'll it'll get you there.
00:15:33.279 -->
00:15:38.480Um, what's one of the biggest things that have surprised you about the coffee community, about the industry?
00:15:40.639 -->
00:15:47.919For me, it's um just how accepting people are of rubbish coffee.
00:15:49.360 -->
00:16:01.440So, like, you know, people pay money for coffee, and you know, we've done it before, like before we were in the coffee industry, we'd be like, Oh, you know, it's a bit of a it's not a great cup of coffee, but you still drink it and you just accept it.
00:16:01.679 -->
00:16:04.960And that's one of the things I found most fascinating.
00:16:05.200 -->
00:16:09.279And when we're at events and we're doing things, people are like, wow, like that's such a good cup of coffee.
00:16:09.440 -->
00:16:11.919And I'm like, Yeah, like that's how it should be.
00:16:12.080 -->
00:16:13.840Like, you shouldn't be thanking me for that.
00:16:13.919 -->
00:16:16.799You know, you've paid for coffee, like that's what you should be getting.
00:16:17.120 -->
00:16:22.879That's probably the biggest thing for me, just how accepting people are of coffee, whether it's you know, rubbish or not.
00:16:23.519 -->
00:16:31.360Um there was a podcast, uh, not a podcast, a coffee expert on a podcast, and they taste tested five coffees in front of him.
00:16:31.440 -->
00:16:36.960And he was like, Yeah, he was like, That's that's a chain, that's a chain, that's a chain.
00:16:37.039 -->
00:16:38.480It was like that's an independent brewer.
00:16:38.639 -->
00:16:38.879Yeah, yeah.
00:16:38.960 -->
00:16:48.720And he was talking about the price and the logistics that all goes into it, that a chain can obviously charge a lot less, but they're pumping out stuff that's not as good, so it's easier and all of that.
00:16:48.960 -->
00:16:56.240But then you find here in Dubai, especially with like hotels and things like that, it's so expensive, yeah, and it's rubbish.
00:16:56.399 -->
00:17:02.879Yeah, it's really bad coffee, but you pay it because of the the location that you're in or the hotel or whatever.
00:17:03.200 -->
00:17:10.319Um but yeah, we've no we've never really had any um complaints about our price, which is good.
00:17:10.480 -->
00:17:20.160Yeah, I think we're very like um kind of averagely priced in the market, but we do always get compliments from our coffee, which is nice.
00:17:20.799 -->
00:17:22.319We get paid in compliments, yeah.
00:17:22.480 -->
00:17:23.039That's that.
00:17:23.279 -->
00:17:25.119Put your prices up, it'd be great as well.
00:17:26.240 -->
00:17:32.799Um I think for me, um just the community is is amazing.
00:17:32.880 -->
00:17:40.880Like we we wouldn't be here right now without people in the industry that are just so selfless, like they just help you at every single stage.
00:17:40.960 -->
00:17:47.680Like we've m we've we got um introduced to some guys uh roasters called the roaster rear out here.
00:17:48.160 -->
00:17:54.000So um Doddy who runs the the roasters and uh what's her name?
00:17:54.240 -->
00:17:58.319Audrey Audrey, who runs who's in charge uh is her company.
00:17:58.559 -->
00:18:21.599From the very beginning, they saw something in us that was like a little bit different, like we were trying to go against the grain a little bit, not just being the next Starbucks or Costa Coffee, we want to be different, and they kind of like supported us through that, through whether it be a late payment or whether it um get a roasting done a lot quicker than the average uh like company would.
00:18:21.680 -->
00:18:22.559They've just been so strong.
00:18:23.039 -->
00:18:24.960Connections, they've put us in contact with a lot of people.
00:18:25.599 -->
00:18:35.920Always like it's not there's not a like two-way transaction, it's like that if they can help, they will help, and it's like not expecting anything back, which has been been really nice, hasn't it?
00:18:36.400 -->
00:18:38.559Yeah, the coffee community has been very giving.
00:18:38.640 -->
00:18:53.039Like, yeah, you I think usually you think if you get into business, people are like, Oh, you want to do coffee as well, we're gonna keep ours a secret, but everybody's so yeah, like open to giving you information or giving you a contact or helping you out with something, it's been nice.
00:18:53.279 -->
00:19:03.519I found that even with the podcast, you think, even though they're your competitors, yeah, or they might be doing something similar to you, that yeah, their mindset will be well, no, no, let's keep that to myself.
00:19:03.680 -->
00:19:05.839But people are so willing, yeah, do this, try that.
00:19:05.920 -->
00:19:21.599And it's kind of like let's bring each other up and go up and it's a Dubai thing, or is it we have this conversation a lot in terms of people again look at you and think, Oh, you're so lucky, but everyone here has moved to Dubai, they've taken that chance to do something different.
00:19:21.680 -->
00:19:28.240Yeah, whereas people in the UK, nothing against it, but they've chosen to stay where's where it's safe.
00:19:28.400 -->
00:19:28.559Yeah.
00:19:28.720 -->
00:19:30.799Everyone's taken the leap to do something different.
00:19:30.960 -->
00:19:33.599You've taken the leap to do this full time.
00:19:33.839 -->
00:19:35.759Like I took the leap to leave teaching.
00:19:35.920 -->
00:19:38.559Teaching's so safe, like we were saying before, it's there.
00:19:38.960 -->
00:19:41.279If I needed to, I could get a job in January.
00:19:41.599 -->
00:19:44.079And that's 'cause of the high demand of schools at the moment.
00:19:44.160 -->
00:19:44.319Yeah.
00:19:44.640 -->
00:19:47.920But I think putting yourself out there, then other people appreciate that.
00:19:48.400 -->
00:19:50.880You've taken the risk, I've taken the risk, let's do it together.
00:19:51.039 -->
00:19:56.720So I do think it's the expat not even expat community, like just the the biased culture.
00:19:57.680 -->
00:19:59.599Yeah, hundred percent, yeah.
00:20:00.559 -->
00:20:08.880I think I feel that with the fitness community as well, and just every sort of thing you put your time and effort in, there's there's some some form of opportunity.
00:20:09.119 -->
00:20:09.359Yeah.
00:20:09.519 -->
00:20:15.839Yeah, because the guys that came on for the Divide 3030 series all have their own area of expertise.
00:20:16.079 -->
00:20:22.160But then Michael Log from the uh athlete is hosting the boys from hybrid run club.
00:20:22.640 -->
00:20:26.000So even though there's a big competitor, he's still inviting them into his gym.
00:20:26.079 -->
00:20:28.160So it's all yeah, really nice to see.
00:20:28.400 -->
00:20:33.279Um building Hoyho Coffee, I think social media is a big part of it.
00:20:33.440 -->
00:20:36.079How have you found the social media part of it?
00:20:36.400 -->
00:20:36.960Horrible.
00:20:37.359 -->
00:20:39.920Yeah, yeah, I hate social media.
00:20:40.240 -->
00:20:41.119Yeah, yeah.
00:20:41.440 -->
00:21:02.960And it's just so easy to get sucked into what other people are doing and like you know, how many likes or reshares or whatever, and it's like it's just hard to stay in your lane and not you know, compare and oh, we should be doing this, and lose sight of what it is you're doing and what your message is.
00:21:03.119 -->
00:21:03.519Yeah.
00:21:03.839 -->
00:21:11.119I yeah, I massively hate social media, but I have to endure it because that's the world that we live in now, isn't it?
00:21:11.359 -->
00:21:16.319Yeah, I think like we we've been recognised on social media, which helps it grow.
00:21:16.480 -->
00:21:50.160Um I don't know what the figures would be of how many people have gone and bought our coffee online from our website as of the social media, but I think it's just more like we when we're in our physical location in Business Bay, like we'd have people kind of getting our cup cup and like tagging it on their private jet or like in their car, and like in that way, that's like a little form of payment for us, like it's like a recognition, and yeah, yeah, but I think I find the more events we do, the more bean sales we then get.
00:21:50.559 -->
00:22:00.960Um, whereas when we had a physical location, it was more just your regular coffee drinkers that you know want their coffee before work or in the afternoon.
00:22:01.119 -->
00:22:09.200Whereas I think the more events and the more engagement, because with the events we're there, whereas with the location, it was just run by our staff.
00:22:09.359 -->
00:22:15.680So we're actually able to connect with more people and give them our message much more clearly.
00:22:16.079 -->
00:22:23.279I think that personal approach as well, knowing that you're there, you had a conversation with them, it's not just the transactional kind of thing.
00:22:23.519 -->
00:22:26.240What it's a coffee shop is, it's in and out, quick, let's go.
00:22:26.319 -->
00:22:30.400Whereas an event, you're there for probably a substantial amount of time.
00:22:30.480 -->
00:22:32.160Yeah so you can have that conversation.
00:22:32.319 -->
00:22:32.480Yeah.
00:22:32.559 -->
00:22:32.720Yeah.
00:22:33.039 -->
00:22:37.839I think we've still not kind of like gone all in with social media yet.
00:22:37.920 -->
00:22:42.319We've not really paid for someone to come on board and who's a more specialist in it.
00:22:42.640 -->
00:22:53.759Yeah, we're just we're not experts, and because I don't have a love for it, we've not like fully invested in kind of what we should be doing for the e-commerce side of the business.
00:22:54.079 -->
00:22:56.480It's I think it's I said this last week.
00:22:56.640 -->
00:23:02.240Someone I met pays someone to do their social media, he pays them 15k a month.
00:23:02.319 -->
00:23:02.480Yeah.
00:23:02.720 -->
00:23:10.400But he said, But it's like if he gets one customer that pays him 20k a month, it's worth it, it's worth its weight in gold.
00:23:10.640 -->
00:23:13.119So it's like you said there, at what point you balance it out?
00:23:13.200 -->
00:23:14.240I'm exactly the same.
00:23:14.400 -->
00:23:18.000I'm like, I post on social media because I have to.
00:23:18.160 -->
00:23:21.839That's how I get guests, it's how people view the podcast and things like that.
00:23:22.160 -->
00:23:26.480But I'm not disciplined enough just to post and then come off Instagram.
00:23:26.720 -->
00:23:31.680I'll scroll for 10 minutes, and then you're like, oh crap, I've wasted so much time today.
00:23:31.920 -->
00:23:36.400So it's definitely, in my opinion, it's the world we live in.
00:23:36.480 -->
00:23:38.319It's how your business is gonna grow.
00:23:38.480 -->
00:23:46.799If you get if more people can buy beans from links from your buyer and things like that, which I feel even cringe saying, Oh, my links in my buyers, yeah.
00:23:47.599 -->
00:23:48.960It's what you've got to do, isn't it?
00:23:49.119 -->
00:23:49.359Yeah.
00:23:49.920 -->
00:24:04.960I I I think just touching on what you said about the comparison thing, it's so hard to be disciplined not to compare yourself from a personal point of view, from how you're doing in yourself, but like from a business point of view, coffee's massive, like it's everywhere.
00:24:05.200 -->
00:24:14.240Like, I know when Joe's been scrolling and he's been looking at other coffee companies because he'll come and he'll be like, Oh, like I think like why are we not doing this?
00:24:14.400 -->
00:24:16.240Or I think isn't this a good idea?
00:24:16.319 -->
00:24:19.440Or I've just seen this, and it's like we're just not there yet.
00:24:19.759 -->
00:24:25.039We just need to like you know, yeah, there's a process, and we just need to be patient.
00:24:25.359 -->
00:24:28.000It doesn't all have to happen at once and be patient.
00:24:28.160 -->
00:24:32.559Yeah, we've got a good product, we know the product's good, we know people like it, we know we're different.
00:24:32.640 -->
00:24:35.039It's just how do we tell that story?
00:24:35.279 -->
00:24:40.480Like we've been waiting to do coffee pods for a while, and we've had quite a few requests for them as well.
00:24:40.720 -->
00:24:58.559We know a lot of people have espresso machines, um, but again, it's just waiting until the time is right because the upfront cost of doing something new, people think you know, oh, you just got this new product, but there's this there's so much that goes on behind the scenes of that, it just we just have to wait for the right time, don't we?
00:24:58.640 -->
00:25:00.559So it's slow process, yeah.
00:25:00.640 -->
00:25:01.200For sure.
00:25:01.440 -->
00:25:06.720Um, if you were gonna do it all again, what's one piece of advice or one thing you do differently?
00:25:07.279 -->
00:25:10.400Finances, yeah.
00:25:10.640 -->
00:25:19.920Um I think we were quite naive going into it because um we thought, oh coffee, you know, it's it's gotta be profitable, surely.
00:25:20.079 -->
00:25:24.799And when we looked at all the figures and everything, we were like, why isn't everybody doing this?
00:25:24.960 -->
00:25:30.079But we didn't consider like rents and you know, things like that.
00:25:30.400 -->
00:25:38.079So we weren't very prepared financially, and we kind of did it all self-funded.
00:25:38.480 -->
00:25:51.680Um, and then we got to a point where we were kind of wanting the business to be like sustaining us, and it we just weren't getting there, and it just yeah, it just got very messy, didn't it?
00:25:51.759 -->
00:26:04.720And we kind of had to separate everything out and be like the business just needs to self-fund itself for a few years and to and then we can like look at yeah, you know, it yeah, yeah.
00:26:04.960 -->
00:26:10.079So I think just being more savvy with the with the financials, yeah for sure.
00:26:10.480 -->
00:26:11.519Definitely, I think that's number one.
00:26:11.680 -->
00:26:15.920I think number two would be like you've got to know that it's something you're passionate about.
00:26:16.000 -->
00:26:28.000I know it's such a cliche thing you hear all the time about your business, but there was there's been times where you're literally like at the lowest point, and yeah, everything around you is telling you to give up and stop.
00:26:28.079 -->
00:26:36.160But if you truly believe in what your product is and what it's gonna do, like that is the only sort of motivation that's gonna get through.
00:26:36.240 -->
00:26:39.680Like no one outside knows what you are going through.
00:26:39.839 -->
00:26:44.000So the advice would be you need to have something if you're starting a business.
00:26:44.720 -->
00:26:47.359And not going to a location, truly believe it.
00:26:47.599 -->
00:26:49.039You've got to truly believe in that business.
00:26:49.200 -->
00:26:49.359Yeah.
00:26:49.680 -->
00:26:53.359Do you think the location was because everyone else does it?
00:26:53.599 -->
00:26:54.480So we should do it.
00:26:54.799 -->
00:27:00.880You see all the arabicas, the ocean, like all of it, you just think, oh, they they're busy, sure, they're doing work.
00:27:01.359 -->
00:27:04.160Location equals success, I think is what we thought, anyway.
00:27:04.720 -->
00:27:05.440It's just not the case.
00:27:12.640 -->
00:27:20.400And we were like, okay, well, even if we get a hundred of those people, that's a good profit, that's a good profit margin every day.
00:27:20.640 -->
00:27:30.079The reality of that, like you're in Dubai, business bay, right next to a metro station, fifteen thousand people walking past every day.
00:27:30.319 -->
00:27:34.319Business tower, so all yeah, 24-7, seven days a week.
00:27:34.720 -->
00:27:35.839It's not the reality.
00:27:36.000 -->
00:27:40.480Like we just didn't have the right um I think it's a clientele as well.
00:27:42.400 -->
00:27:46.799They didn't want uh 25 Durham coffee, they wanted a one derim character.
00:27:47.200 -->
00:27:53.599So it's like you can be in the best location, but if you don't have the right audience, people, audience, yeah.
00:27:53.680 -->
00:27:55.200It's it doesn't work.
00:27:55.519 -->
00:27:55.839Yeah.
00:27:56.079 -->
00:28:03.680So I think we would have thought a little bit more about the location had we done it again, maybe waited um a year or so.
00:28:04.000 -->
00:28:05.119Yeah, would you go back to that?
00:28:05.279 -->
00:28:12.400Are you really happy with the events, the collaborations, kind of going out and meeting people, what you're doing now, sticking with that model?
00:28:12.720 -->
00:28:19.920I think we've said like eventually we want to have a coffee shop that's more of like a brick and mortar, it's it's like a physical location.
00:28:20.160 -->
00:28:26.720But I think if we were to do a coffee shop, we would just go like full decah just to show people that it's possible.
00:28:27.039 -->
00:28:28.720We want to be completely against the grain.
00:28:29.839 -->
00:28:33.440It'd be more of like a quirky thing rather than like a um profitable.
00:28:33.920 -->
00:28:44.480Yeah, we know we're not gonna make a lot of money from it, but it's like purely out of passion, just uh this is everything we've envisioned, we put it now into one space, the food, the the detail.
00:28:44.799 -->
00:28:56.960Because it's interesting actually, like when you're when you have a location, the how easy it is to like veer off track, like the amount of people that are like, Oh, why don't you do croissants and cakes and this?
00:28:57.119 -->
00:29:10.319And we're like, we're trying to like promote the health benefits of coffee, and but because you don't make a lot of money from it, it's like so hard not to start to creep in those sugary drinks and the cakes and everything.
00:29:10.640 -->
00:29:17.200Delivery apps, like things you just get coerced into doing and it doesn't work, like it didn't work for us, did it?
00:29:17.359 -->
00:29:17.599No.
00:29:17.839 -->
00:29:18.880And you learn the hard way.
00:29:18.960 -->
00:29:19.200Yeah.
00:29:19.359 -->
00:29:23.440What would you say to the devil's advocate of the person saying that you need need that caffeine?
00:29:23.519 -->
00:29:25.920I need that morning buzz in my coffee.
00:29:26.240 -->
00:29:30.559So I I drink caffeine, so like I will I I w I need it.
00:29:31.039 -->
00:29:39.359I say I need it, but like if I don't have a caffeinated drink in the morning, like I get headaches, I get my mood drops, I don't feel like I've got as much energy.
00:29:39.519 -->
00:29:45.279I think there's a slight placebo effect in that because of the just the concept of having a coffee.
00:29:45.519 -->
00:29:51.119But I think there is scientific proof that it does enhance your performance.
00:29:51.279 -->
00:30:02.880So from a sport context, it does have a 1% increase in your performance, and if you kind of tie that in with the right carbohydrate loading, it does improve your performance.
00:30:03.039 -->
00:30:08.400Um, but I think the question needs to be are you reliant on that every day?
00:30:08.559 -->
00:30:10.160And to me, I am reliant on it.
00:30:10.319 -->
00:30:12.880When I don't have it, I don't feel like the same person.
00:30:13.119 -->
00:30:14.079You get the headache is not the same.
00:30:16.240 -->
00:30:17.680I get the mental symptoms.
00:30:17.839 -->
00:30:30.240So I don't have a problem with it, but our kind of rule of thumb is by midday you need to switch to to decaf because then that doesn't affect and the myth is people are like, Oh well, you know, I have a coffee before I go to bed and I sleep fine.
00:30:30.400 -->
00:30:47.920And we're like you, it's kind of like alcohol, you might feel like you sleep fine, but actually your quality of sleep is what's affected you not getting that deep sleep because you've still got that caffeine in your system, and it's quite interesting when we have that conversation with people, and they're like, Oh, I didn't know that.
00:30:48.160 -->
00:30:56.079Yeah, and they go away and like look at their whoop or they look at their garment, and like, oh yeah, actually, my sleep quality is not actually that good in that stage of sleep.
00:30:56.160 -->
00:31:02.480But look, I do meet people then they and they actually can do it as well because everyone's tolerances to caffeine is different.
00:31:02.640 -->
00:31:07.839Um, I met a New Zealand rubber player last week and he has like nine a day.
00:31:08.000 -->
00:31:11.039And I asked him about like, do you not like stop before bed?
00:31:11.119 -->
00:31:12.720He's like, No, I can just sleep fine.
00:31:12.799 -->
00:31:33.759And I spoke to their team manager, and he's like, Yeah, I can he's just a a freak, like he just goes against all sort of like medicine, and he will have like the best sleep, even though they're traveling like 12 months of the year for their sevens, he can go eight hours a day, eight hours a day of sleep, like all deep sleep, like all high quality sleep, even though he's getting that caffeine in.
00:31:33.920 -->
00:31:36.160So it is very personal, isn't it?
00:31:36.559 -->
00:31:38.799Yeah, how you metabolise caffeine is very personal.
00:31:38.880 -->
00:31:42.960Yeah, yeah, I'm the same as you, but I'd say maybe a little bit later, two o'clock, I have my last coffee.
00:31:43.039 -->
00:31:46.480But then when my parents come on holiday, always coffee before bed.
00:31:46.640 -->
00:31:47.839We do it like one week a year.
00:31:48.000 -->
00:31:52.559I don't know why we switched that one week, but just one of those things, yeah.
00:31:52.960 -->
00:32:01.839Um, if I have interest, the events you go to as well, you have to pay to go to the events or some events they invite you down to, or how does that work?
00:32:02.079 -->
00:32:03.039Yeah, a mixture.
00:32:03.359 -->
00:32:05.920Yes, this has been a bit of a journey, this one, hasn't it?
00:32:06.160 -->
00:32:17.119So we you get some events where you get charged quite a lot of money to be there, and we very quickly learnt to just say no to those events because you're not actually making your money back.
00:32:17.279 -->
00:32:21.519So for us as a small independent business, there's just no point in doing it.
00:32:22.160 -->
00:32:27.440Um we've actually been quite lucky in getting into community events.
00:32:27.599 -->
00:32:32.079So very early on, you made a connection with Super Sports, yeah, with Warren.
00:32:32.319 -->
00:32:38.240Um and they didn't have a coffee vendor and they just wanted to enhance their event.
00:32:38.480 -->
00:32:43.519So they invited us down, um, loved what we did, um, liked the coffee.
00:32:43.599 -->
00:32:46.640So they're like, Do you just want to keep coming to our events?
00:32:46.799 -->
00:32:59.279So ones like that are great because it's just, you know, we're not having to pay to be there, uh, but we might contribute to like prizes, or we do giveaways online to help them sell tickets, things like that.
00:32:59.519 -->
00:33:20.240Um, and we just get to be there, which is fantastic because um events aren't always massively profitable, even though people might think, oh, you've got huge crowds, with like the cost of being there, you know, your staff member and the ingredients and stuff, especially the events where they're like, you know, we want two or three thousand dirhams for you to be here.
00:33:20.319 -->
00:33:36.319It's like you kind of we've learned as well, like those sort of people straight away, you kind of understand what their motive is, like they don't really care about your products, they just were like, Oh, it's coffee, like yeah, we're gonna get some money from you to be there.
00:33:36.480 -->
00:33:43.200Um, and then we then get on the the wrong side of that and we end up losing like loads of money.
00:33:43.279 -->
00:33:46.400So yeah, we've we've learned why worried about their bottom line, yeah.
00:33:47.200 -->
00:33:48.000Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:33:48.240 -->
00:33:55.039Yeah, um, but look, there are some events where we we will pay to be there, um, but it's a very minimal fee.
00:33:55.200 -->
00:34:03.920And when when I have to negotiate with the people, the minute we kind of explain our story and our reason, they're like, Yeah, you know what, that's that's understandable.
00:34:04.319 -->
00:34:08.000Um we did primal race with um with PewTerme.
00:34:08.880 -->
00:34:11.119Yeah, I used to work, uh to teach with them.
00:34:11.360 -->
00:34:25.760Yeah, um, and he kind of again understood that we're a small coffee business, so they gave an option of like you can either yeah, you can either donate to like the the goodie bags or like the prizes, um, but there is an option to pay to be there.
00:34:25.840 -->
00:34:28.719So there's there's three options there, which which works for us a lot.
00:34:28.800 -->
00:34:29.039Yeah.
00:34:30.079 -->
00:34:42.719Um so we just try and stick to the ones that are like just want to enhance their experience, they're not interested in charging us to be there, or you know, it's very minimal, like we can donate to their prizes or something.
00:34:43.039 -->
00:34:59.679Well, like you said before, it goes back to staying true to what you believe, staying in your lane that just because other people are paying, yeah, they look again, they look profitable, they look successful, doesn't necessarily mean that's the way, but sticking to what your guns are, I think, is uh a great thing to do.
00:34:59.840 -->
00:35:01.039Yeah, that sounds great.
00:35:01.199 -->
00:35:02.480Keep it up, really good.
00:35:03.440 -->
00:35:09.599If someone wanted to get in contact with you guys or have you an event or get in touch about your coffee, what's the best way to do that?
00:35:09.920 -->
00:35:13.840We have an event form on our Instagram so people can fill it out.
00:35:13.920 -->
00:35:15.199Um link in your bio.
00:35:15.599 -->
00:35:17.199Link in our bio, yes.
00:35:17.760 -->
00:35:23.280So uh and when we get in contact with them or through our website as well, you can you can contact us.
00:35:23.599 -->
00:35:30.320So Instagram is at hoyho coffee, and then the website is www.hoyhocoffee.com.
00:35:30.960 -->
00:35:31.199Perfect.
00:35:31.280 -->
00:35:36.159I'll put all this information on the show notes and our social media stuff as well, so you can find you guys on there.
00:35:36.239 -->
00:35:38.960Um, Chelsea, Joe, thank you so much for coming to School Talk.
00:35:39.119 -->
00:35:40.239Thank you, thank you, Chris.
00:35:40.320 -->
00:35:40.880Thanks for having us.
00:35:41.119 -->
00:35:41.679You're welcome.
00:35:41.840 -->
00:35:48.079Once again, if you find this episode interesting or you think someone might learn from it or enjoy it, share it with them and we'll continue to grow.
00:35:48.159 -->
00:35:49.360My name is Chris Schrubbsall.
00:35:49.519 -->
00:35:50.639This has been School Talk.
00:35:50.719 -->
00:35:51.679Bye for now.
