The Knockout Formula: What Podcasters Can Learn from a Netflix-Breaking Event

Dave Jackson
00:00:21
Today on episode number 958 of the school of Podcasting, we're going to talk about Spotify's big announcement.

Dave Jackson
00:00:28
And I'm going to talk about a program that was so big it broke Netflix.

Dave Jackson
00:00:34
And why was it big and what podcasters can learn from it.

Dave Jackson
00:00:39
Let's start the show, the School of.

Co-host
00:00:41
Podcasting with Dave Jackson.

Dave Jackson
00:00:46
Podcasting since 2005, I am your award winning hall of fame podcast coach, Dave Jackson.

Dave Jackson
00:00:53
Thanking you so much for tuning in.

Dave Jackson
00:00:55
If you're new to the show, welcome aboard.

Dave Jackson
00:00:57
You're in the right place.

Dave Jackson
00:00:59
This is why I help you plan, launch and grow your podcast.

Dave Jackson
00:01:04
Today we're going to talk about what makes really good content.

Dave Jackson
00:01:07
We're going to talk a little bit about Spotify's big announcement.

Dave Jackson
00:01:10
My website, school of podcasting.com use the coupon code LISTENER.

Dave Jackson
00:01:15
That's L A S T E N E R when you sign up for either a monthly or yearly subscription.

Dave Jackson
00:01:21
And of course that comes with a 30 day money back guarantee.

Dave Jackson
00:01:26
And so I thought about this today, like, is this a good topic?

Dave Jackson
00:01:30
And it is because it will be somewhat evergreen and I'm going to kind of play in traffic because a lot of people are talking about this particular program.

Dave Jackson
00:01:41
Well, what was the program?

Dave Jackson
00:01:43
And that is Jake Paul, who's this social media MMA fighter guy who's trying to be a professional boxer.

Dave Jackson
00:01:54
He's 27 years old.

Dave Jackson
00:01:56
He took on one of the most explosive, well known boxers of his time.

Dave Jackson
00:02:04
He was the youngest heavyweight boxer ever at 20 years old.

Dave Jackson
00:02:10
And that of course is Mike Tyson.

Dave Jackson
00:02:13
And what was interesting about this is myself, I did not have a Netflix subscription.

Dave Jackson
00:02:18
I do the thing where I will have Peacock for a month or two and then I'll turn it off and then I'll go get Max and then I'll watch whatever I want to watch and I'll turn it off because I, I found myself having all these different programs.

Dave Jackson
00:02:32
I was watching like one program on each platform and I was like, that's kind of dumb.

Dave Jackson
00:02:38
And so what I do now is I will be on like now I'm on Netflix and so I will watch everything I want to watch on Netflix.

Dave Jackson
00:02:45
And when I find myself going, well, I guess I could watch this one, I will cancel it and go to another one where there's probably some programs that I want to watch.

Dave Jackson
00:02:55
And for the record, I think sometime in the next year I would not be surprised if these platforms make you sign up for a year or more than a month.

Dave Jackson
00:03:08
I don't think they're Going to make it so easy to cancel?

Dave Jackson
00:03:10
Hopefully not.

Dave Jackson
00:03:11
But let's stick to the topic here.

Dave Jackson
00:03:14
It was Jake Balm and Mike Tyson.

Dave Jackson
00:03:17
And from what I saw on this, the Netflix reported that 60 million households globally turned in to watch the fight.

Dave Jackson
00:03:28
The viewership peaked at 65 million concurrent streams during the main event.

Dave Jackson
00:03:34
And so there was what they call a monolith of an audience.

Dave Jackson
00:03:39
This doesn't happen except for, like, the super bowl, because we are all watching whatever we want, whenever we want.

Dave Jackson
00:03:47
That's the beauty of podcasting.

Dave Jackson
00:03:48
You can listen wherever you want to, whatever you want, whenever you want.

Dave Jackson
00:03:53
But this was the thing that even though most of us work from home these days, if there was an actual corporate headquarters, there was going to be a lot of talk around the water cooler about this fight.

Dave Jackson
00:04:08
And so I was like, well, I don't want to have that.

Dave Jackson
00:04:12
I don't want to be the guy missing out that's not talking about this, even though I work from home.

Dave Jackson
00:04:16
And so I put out my.

Dave Jackson
00:04:17
Whatever it was, 17 bucks to watch.

Dave Jackson
00:04:20
And so here are a couple of things that we can learn, because this was an event that got a lot of attention, and it had some ingredients that we can use in our podcast.

Dave Jackson
00:04:32
So, number one, if you want to do something really big, maybe you're doing a webinar or a meetup or something like that, you have to have plenty of notification.

Dave Jackson
00:04:41
And I don't mean, like two weeks.

Dave Jackson
00:04:44
The fight was announced in March of 2024.

Dave Jackson
00:04:49
Now, it was originally supposed to happen in July, so that's March.

Dave Jackson
00:04:53
All right.

Dave Jackson
00:04:53
So we got April, May, June, July.

Dave Jackson
00:04:56
That's four months.

Dave Jackson
00:04:58
So you can't announce something three weeks and expect to get a big draw.

Dave Jackson
00:05:03
Now, it didn't happen in July because Mike had some sort of physical thing happen.

Dave Jackson
00:05:08
And so it turned out that was announced in March.

Dave Jackson
00:05:11
It had eight months of promotion.

Dave Jackson
00:05:15
And so if you look at people like Chris Komitzos and from Podfest and Podcast Movement, these people are doing tours, they're doing all sorts of stuff to keep that event in front of you.

Dave Jackson
00:05:30
So you have to.

Dave Jackson
00:05:32
Again, it's months in advance if you want to really drum up some information and get some tickets sold.

Dave Jackson
00:05:39
Now, it did have a lot of play on social media because Jake Paul has, like, 27 million people following him on that.

Dave Jackson
00:05:48
But it did get some play on the mainstream as well, because it's like, hey, remember Mike Tyson?

Dave Jackson
00:05:54
You know, well, he's.

Dave Jackson
00:05:55
He's coming back.

Dave Jackson
00:05:56
And so that kind of exposure would be hard to deliver as a podcaster.

Dave Jackson
00:06:01
But you should start to build up that anticipation months to tease the audience so that once it arrives, they feel like they have to consume the content to feel it left out.

Dave Jackson
00:06:15
Back in the day of podcasting, there was a show called the Podcast Brothers, and there was an event that changed its name about every other year, but it was at one point the Podcast and Portable Media Expo.

Dave Jackson
00:06:29
But they did a podcast year round, and when they got a new sponsor or they got a speaker or something, they just made it sound like if you're not at this event, you're missing it out.

Dave Jackson
00:06:40
So keep that in mind.

Dave Jackson
00:06:42
You have to leave people plenty of time and you have to build it up.

Dave Jackson
00:06:46
Now, the other thing that was, I went, hmm, we can learn from that.

Dave Jackson
00:06:51
It was ease of content.

Dave Jackson
00:06:53
It was easy to get this.

Dave Jackson
00:06:55
It was simple.

Dave Jackson
00:06:57
Now, if you're like, well, I don't have a Netflix account, Dave.

Dave Jackson
00:07:00
Well, it's not that hard to download an app.

Dave Jackson
00:07:03
It was easy to pay and then easy to sign in.

Dave Jackson
00:07:07
So by offering this event live on its platform at no additional cost to subscribers.

Dave Jackson
00:07:12
So if you had Netflix, you got it.

Dave Jackson
00:07:16
And Netflix made the flight, the fight, easily accessible to a vast global audience, and they basically contributed to the that high viewership.

Dave Jackson
00:07:30
So I don't know if people were staying up in England or not, but it was easy to get.

Dave Jackson
00:07:35
And so for me, I personally subscribe now.

Dave Jackson
00:07:38
What was kind of cool of this is I've had Netflix in the past, and even though I canceled my subscription when I logged in, gave my credit card, they remembered exactly where I was the last time I logged in.

Dave Jackson
00:07:51
So ease of content.

Dave Jackson
00:07:54
So for podcasters, you should be in all the apps.

Dave Jackson
00:07:58
I've never.

Dave Jackson
00:07:59
I kind of scratch my head and look, you be you, but you should be in Apple and Spotify and Amazon and I heart, in any other place that is supporting people listening to content or watching content.

Dave Jackson
00:08:13
Why?

Dave Jackson
00:08:14
Because there are people there that listen to content on those apps.

Dave Jackson
00:08:17
I know right now Samsung closed down their podcast directory, and you're probably going, wait, Samson has a podcast directory?

Dave Jackson
00:08:26
Yes, exactly.

Dave Jackson
00:08:27
And now you know why they're closing it.

Dave Jackson
00:08:29
But I put my show there.

Dave Jackson
00:08:31
Why?

Dave Jackson
00:08:32
Because there might be somebody over there listening to content.

Dave Jackson
00:08:36
And it took all of, I don't know, four minutes to submit my show.

Dave Jackson
00:08:41
And I think we've seen when podcasters go exclusive on a platform, be it, you know, Joe Rogan only on Spotify, and there are a couple other people that were only on this platform, and usually that's Spotify, because they are the walled garden and we'll talk about them later.

Dave Jackson
00:08:58
But it doesn't work in the long run.

Dave Jackson
00:09:02
Look at how many people.

Dave Jackson
00:09:03
Dax Shepard, Joe Rogan.

Dave Jackson
00:09:05
I forget the one.

Dave Jackson
00:09:06
There's a female kind of self improvement author who is.

Dave Jackson
00:09:12
Her name is escaping me.

Dave Jackson
00:09:13
Great show, prep Dave.

Dave Jackson
00:09:14
But, you know, all of them were exclusive and none of them are now, so that, to me, is not a great strategy.

Dave Jackson
00:09:24
Look, I'm not a huge fan of Spotify as a podcast platform, but my show is still there.

Dave Jackson
00:09:29
Why?

Dave Jackson
00:09:29
Because.

Dave Jackson
00:09:29
Cause I don't know, 8% of my audience is there and I don't wanna have to make them move because that would be a bummer.

Dave Jackson
00:09:37
So you need to meet your audience where they are if you wanna make it easy.

Dave Jackson
00:09:42
Remember we were talking about ease of content.

Dave Jackson
00:09:44
And the beauty of podcasting is it's an open format, meaning the power of choice is in the audience's hands.

Dave Jackson
00:09:53
You don't have to listen to me on Amazon or iHeart or Overcast or Castamatic or podcast guru.

Dave Jackson
00:10:00
You can listen to me wherever you want.

Dave Jackson
00:10:04
And I just want to make it easy for you to do that because that's what Netflix did.

Co-host
00:10:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:10:10
And another thing we can learn is it's information you can't get anyplace else.

Dave Jackson
00:10:18
If you wanted to see Mike Tyson box, you couldn't get it.

Dave Jackson
00:10:22
In fact, it had been 19 years since Mike had been in.

Dave Jackson
00:10:27
Like, if we put up quotation marks here, even though it's not really.

Dave Jackson
00:10:30
It's.

Dave Jackson
00:10:30
It's the truth.

Dave Jackson
00:10:31
But official boxing match.

Dave Jackson
00:10:34
So this was something that you couldn't get anyplace else.

Dave Jackson
00:10:36
He did an exhibition match in 2020, but one where he's still trying to, like, knock the head off the guy.

Dave Jackson
00:10:43
Yeah, it had been almost 20 years.

Dave Jackson
00:10:46
So this was information that you can't get anyplace else, which is why everybody was like, wait, who's fighting?

Dave Jackson
00:10:53
Oh, I'll be there.

Co-host
00:10:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:10:56
Then there was an emotional side of the story, and it dawned on me as I was putting this together.

Dave Jackson
00:11:03
I always say you need to make your content, either make people laugh, cry, think, groan, educate, or entertain.

Dave Jackson
00:11:09
And that is still true.

Dave Jackson
00:11:11
But there's another thing, and I need to come up with a way of saying this.

Dave Jackson
00:11:14
When you can tie into someone's emotions, or in this case, nostalgia, that is something that will motivate people to tune in.

Dave Jackson
00:11:26
And so Mike Tyson, even after losing, he is, if somebody says the baddest man on the planet, if you know anything about boxing, people are going to go, oh, man.

Dave Jackson
00:11:36
You know That's Mike Tyson.

Dave Jackson
00:11:39
If you say the greatest of all time, you'd be like, oh, it's Muhammad Ali, right?

Dave Jackson
00:11:42
They all have their little nicknames and stuff.

Dave Jackson
00:11:44
And so those that loved Mike Tyson were excited to see him get back in the ring because it felt like it was, you know, 2020, actually, not 2020.

Dave Jackson
00:11:55
That was the pandemic.

Dave Jackson
00:11:56
But you get the idea.

Dave Jackson
00:11:57
It was like back in the day of watching Iron Mike, here he is, he's getting back in the ring, and for some people, like, Mike was your hero.

Dave Jackson
00:12:04
This is the guy.

Dave Jackson
00:12:05
Because this was a guy, literally, if you're not familiar with Mike Tyson, so many of his fights would make millions of dollars.

Dave Jackson
00:12:13
He would show up and knock the guy out in the first round.

Dave Jackson
00:12:16
Like, you're like, all right, here it goes.

Dave Jackson
00:12:18
And you'd pay like 30, $40 for this pay per view thing, and it would last 2 minutes and 12 seconds, and that would be it.

Dave Jackson
00:12:27
So people actually loved to watch him, and they hated to watch him because you're like, well, now what are we going to do?

Dave Jackson
00:12:31
We made all these nachos and the thing's already over.

Dave Jackson
00:12:34
So Jake Paul is known as the problem child and a little bit full of himself.

Dave Jackson
00:12:41
Right.

Dave Jackson
00:12:42
So all the men that were over 50 wanted to see if Mike could do it.

Dave Jackson
00:12:47
So there was that emotional edge to the story.

Co-host
00:12:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:12:53
And the next thing that made people tune in and this is huge, when you can somehow do this and orchestrate it, people will not just listen to the beginning of your show, but they'll listen to the whole thing.

Dave Jackson
00:13:10
And I call it the WHN effect.

Dave Jackson
00:13:12
Now, what is that?

Dave Jackson
00:13:13
That is what happens next.

Dave Jackson
00:13:16
And with Mike Tyson, he's a little cuckoo at times.

Dave Jackson
00:13:21
Yeah, he is famous.

Dave Jackson
00:13:23
There was one fight where the fighter kept kind of headbutting him, and his name was Evander Holofield.

Dave Jackson
00:13:30
And Mike just took a big old chunk of his ear and bit it off.

Dave Jackson
00:13:35
That's not something you see every day.

Dave Jackson
00:13:37
And again, he's seen as a little bit of a loose cannon.

Dave Jackson
00:13:41
And at the weigh in, we're like, all right, here comes Mike.

Dave Jackson
00:13:45
And this guy's like 3 inches taller than him.

Dave Jackson
00:13:47
And they're.

Dave Jackson
00:13:48
They're doing the.

Dave Jackson
00:13:49
You know, they're staring into each other.

Dave Jackson
00:13:51
And Jake Paul did something where he kind of stood up and got pretty close to Mike, and for whatever reason, Mike smacked him pretty hard in the face.

Dave Jackson
00:14:01
So Mike is highly unpredictable.

Dave Jackson
00:14:05
We're like, is he going to bite off his ear?

Dave Jackson
00:14:07
What's he going to do?

Dave Jackson
00:14:09
And even when it was obvious, spoiler alert, that Mike was not going to win.

Dave Jackson
00:14:16
For me, as a guy who has seen, you know, on YouTube, there are all sorts of clips of watching Mike just.

Dave Jackson
00:14:23
It would be just one punch.

Dave Jackson
00:14:24
In some cases, it looked like he wasn't doing very well.

Dave Jackson
00:14:28
And then Mike would come up and just hit the guy, and it was lights out.

Dave Jackson
00:14:32
And you're like, oh, my gosh, I think he killed him.

Dave Jackson
00:14:34
Right.

Dave Jackson
00:14:35
He's just out on the mat.

Dave Jackson
00:14:37
And so for me, I remember when Mike was in trouble, all it took was one punch.

Dave Jackson
00:14:44
So even after, say, round two, you're like, oh, this.

Dave Jackson
00:14:48
This is not going to end well.

Dave Jackson
00:14:50
There was a part of you that goes, yeah, but it just takes one punch.

Dave Jackson
00:14:54
And so there was part of you that's like, okay, I know this is looking this way, but won't this be surprising?

Dave Jackson
00:15:01
If Mike comes up one punch, Jake goes down.

Dave Jackson
00:15:05
I want to see what's going to happen next.

Dave Jackson
00:15:08
And I really think that is why sports, live sports especially, will always kind of have a place in media.

Co-host
00:15:17
Yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:15:18
And I thought this was cool.

Dave Jackson
00:15:20
There was a well thought out ending.

Dave Jackson
00:15:23
And in podcasting, you need some sort of hook to get people to click play whether that's your title.

Dave Jackson
00:15:31
And I'm here to tell you, I still get kind of sad when I see somebody put the full phrase episode 18 at the beginning of their name.

Dave Jackson
00:15:40
I feel you're wasting that space that is beachfront property right there.

Dave Jackson
00:15:46
And only you care what episode it is.

Dave Jackson
00:15:49
Yes.

Dave Jackson
00:15:49
It makes it easier to find.

Dave Jackson
00:15:50
It just.

Dave Jackson
00:15:50
I could go on and on.

Dave Jackson
00:15:51
But nonetheless, you need a good intro to hook people.

Dave Jackson
00:15:56
And then if you conclude with something that makes people go, oh, yeah, and things like that, that's where I always say, if you do an interview and you've just made somebody look good, that's great.

Dave Jackson
00:16:09
But if the goal of your podcast is to make you look good, you need to do what I call the Jerry Springer.

Dave Jackson
00:16:15
For those of you that remember Jerry Springer, it's like a 2000 themed show today.

Dave Jackson
00:16:20
But Jerry Springer was this guy that would have people throwing chairs at each other.

Dave Jackson
00:16:25
And at the end, Jerry would go, what did we learn today?

Dave Jackson
00:16:28
Look in the camera, Things like that.

Dave Jackson
00:16:30
So a good ending is another way to have people going, hey, that was valuable.

Dave Jackson
00:16:35
And so Jake Paul, this guy who's way younger, way taller, better fit, was kind of in a no win situation.

Dave Jackson
00:16:46
If he knocked Mike out, he would have beaten up a much older man who was an icon.

Dave Jackson
00:16:53
And from what I'm seeing, many people, including me, felt that Jake could have knocked him out.

Dave Jackson
00:16:59
I think he kind of took his foot off the gas a little bit, which is always scary because again, it just takes one punch from Mike.

Dave Jackson
00:17:07
But I thought this was really classy.

Dave Jackson
00:17:10
In the last seconds of the last round, Jake put up his arms and kind of like a we're not worthy, we're not worthy kind of motion, and then put his.

Dave Jackson
00:17:20
His hands down, like, down by his.

Dave Jackson
00:17:23
His belly button, and bowed to Mike Tyson.

Dave Jackson
00:17:26
This is like, with 10 seconds left to go, it's just a kind of a nod of like, hey, you know what?

Dave Jackson
00:17:32
I'm in the ring with Mike Tyson.

Dave Jackson
00:17:34
Thank you for the honor of letting me look at you.

Dave Jackson
00:17:36
And for me, that was a classy move, and it gave again, people, something to talk about.

Dave Jackson
00:17:44
And again, what does that do?

Dave Jackson
00:17:45
It pulls on people's heartstrings.

Dave Jackson
00:17:47
We're like, hey, you know what?

Dave Jackson
00:17:49
Jake Paul could be a jerk.

Dave Jackson
00:17:52
He's the bad boy.

Dave Jackson
00:17:53
He's beaten up on this old man.

Dave Jackson
00:17:55
But at the last final second to kind of go, it was an honor to be in the ring with you.

Dave Jackson
00:18:00
And again, it's like, oh, he's not such a jerk.

Dave Jackson
00:18:03
Look at him.

Dave Jackson
00:18:03
He could have beaten the snot out of Mike and didn't.

Co-host
00:18:06
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:18:08
And some other things that we could kind of talk about here is I said, you want to make it easy for people to find your show, but the other thing is Netflix had some problems streaming it, causing the broadcast to buffer over and over, which I cannot tell you because I had that happen at my house.

Dave Jackson
00:18:33
And when the process of consuming your content is frustrating, there's a really good chance people aren't going to do it.

Dave Jackson
00:18:42
And so what I did, I'm like, in the second round, and I'd watch like a minute and a half, and then it would, like, go up 25%, 27%, 29%, 34%.

Dave Jackson
00:18:55
And it just kept going on.

Dave Jackson
00:18:57
And so I thought, huh, I'm watching on my big screen TV in the living room.

Dave Jackson
00:19:01
I've got cable.

Dave Jackson
00:19:03
I've got.

Dave Jackson
00:19:04
What do you call it, fiber.

Dave Jackson
00:19:05
So I definitely don't have slow Internet.

Dave Jackson
00:19:08
And I'm like, well, this is a Netflix problem.

Dave Jackson
00:19:10
So I picked up my phone and went to Netflix to watch it there.

Dave Jackson
00:19:14
And I was in the second round on my tv, waiting for it to finish buffering.

Dave Jackson
00:19:19
I pull up my phone, I'm in the last round.

Dave Jackson
00:19:21
I'm in the eighth round.

Dave Jackson
00:19:22
And I was like, wait, what?

Dave Jackson
00:19:24
And that's when I realized, wow, this is.

Dave Jackson
00:19:26
I don't realize how much.

Dave Jackson
00:19:27
I'm buffering here.

Dave Jackson
00:19:28
But it was horrible, and it really ruined the experience because you're like, oh, come on.

Dave Jackson
00:19:32
Come on.

Dave Jackson
00:19:33
Oh.

Dave Jackson
00:19:34
Oh, it's back.

Dave Jackson
00:19:35
Okay.

Dave Jackson
00:19:35
Hey.

Dave Jackson
00:19:36
Ooh, that could be.

Dave Jackson
00:19:37
Ooh.

Dave Jackson
00:19:37
Oh.

Dave Jackson
00:19:38
Oh.

Dave Jackson
00:19:38
And then it buffered.

Dave Jackson
00:19:39
Oh, it was so annoying.

Dave Jackson
00:19:42
And so we don't want the actual process of listening to your show to be something that annoys people.

Dave Jackson
00:19:51
I was driving back from Pot Indy, and I listened to a show that ironically talks about the importance of audio.

Dave Jackson
00:20:01
They talk about audio ads all the time.

Dave Jackson
00:20:03
They're an agency, and I'm here.

Dave Jackson
00:20:05
I'm like, if I'm lying, I'm dying.

Dave Jackson
00:20:08
They had, like, one guy was a very polite British guy, and he would talk like this, and in a very polite British kind of way, right?

Dave Jackson
00:20:16
And then he had somebody who was a female American, and she talked like this.

Dave Jackson
00:20:21
This what I learned.

Dave Jackson
00:20:22
And I'm riding the volume knob because I want to hear what these people say and realize there comes a time that when your audio is so annoying, people will not just grab the volume knob.

Dave Jackson
00:20:35
They will swipe left and say unfollow.

Dave Jackson
00:20:38
Because it's no fun.

Dave Jackson
00:20:39
There is a show I listen to about marketing, and I have contacted the host and said, dude, you got a buzz.

Dave Jackson
00:20:47
What's going on?

Dave Jackson
00:20:48
And I actually sent him a audio clip saying, you could just remove this if you used Hindenburg.

Dave Jackson
00:20:53
And what I mean by that is when he's not talking, you hear in the background.

Dave Jackson
00:21:01
So he's talking, and you can hear what he's understanding, but every time he stops.

Dave Jackson
00:21:06
And I was like, this is ridiculous.

Dave Jackson
00:21:08
And it's so easy to fix.

Dave Jackson
00:21:11
So you don't want the actual process of consuming your content to be annoying.

Dave Jackson
00:21:18
That is definitely a lesson we could learn from Netflix.

Dave Jackson
00:21:23
And the question will be, because think about it.

Dave Jackson
00:21:26
This is Netflix.

Dave Jackson
00:21:27
As far as I know, second or third time, I think they live streamed a Chris Rock performance.

Dave Jackson
00:21:32
I think they live streamed a Kevin Hart performance, and now they're doing live sports.

Dave Jackson
00:21:39
And if the next time they do something live, if it's buffering, there's going to be a lot of people going, yeah, that's.

Dave Jackson
00:21:45
Nope.

Dave Jackson
00:21:46
I don't believe you.

Dave Jackson
00:21:47
You asked me to trust you, and I paid my money, and you're giving me subpar reports.

Dave Jackson
00:21:54
So realize you have.

Dave Jackson
00:21:56
With podcasting, this is so huge.

Dave Jackson
00:22:00
You have trust and you have integrity.

Dave Jackson
00:22:04
And so when you say, I'm doing this and then you don't provide what you said you're going to do, your integrity comes up for inspection, shall we say and people may go, yeah, I don't think that guy's telling the truth.

Dave Jackson
00:22:19
I think she's kind of fibbing a little bit.

Co-host
00:22:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:22:23
So I often hear people say, well, Dave, when can I monetize?

Dave Jackson
00:22:27
When's the right time?

Dave Jackson
00:22:28
When's the right time to monetize my podcast?

Dave Jackson
00:22:32
You do not monetize a podcast.

Dave Jackson
00:22:35
You monetize an audience.

Dave Jackson
00:22:37
And Jake, working with Netflix, working with media, working with social media, knew they were going to have an audience.

Dave Jackson
00:22:45
And according to a press conference, Jake Paul said he made $40 million for whatever, two times eight.

Dave Jackson
00:22:53
That would be 16 minutes of work.

Dave Jackson
00:22:56
Not a bad day at the office.

Dave Jackson
00:22:58
It's been estimated that Tyson made 20 million, and neither of these numbers have been confirmed.

Dave Jackson
00:23:04
So that could be complete smoke thanks to the Internet.

Dave Jackson
00:23:08
But if you think about it, with months of promotion, an event that you couldn't get anyplace else that you know people are going to talk about, had an interesting story that pulled on your heartstrings, pulled on your nostalgia, and had you wondering what was going to happen.

Dave Jackson
00:23:25
If you can take some of those ingredients and put them into your episode.

Dave Jackson
00:23:29
Obviously, if you're doing a weekly show, you can't promote that for months and months and months.

Dave Jackson
00:23:34
But can you pull at people's heartstrings?

Dave Jackson
00:23:37
Can you tell a story with your show?

Dave Jackson
00:23:39
Can you maybe pull on some nostalgia?

Dave Jackson
00:23:42
If you've got enough, you know, years under your belt to do that?

Dave Jackson
00:23:46
These are all things we can do to make our content better.

Dave Jackson
00:23:50
And remember, it's the content.

Dave Jackson
00:23:53
It's not the media host, it's not the microphone, it's not the website.

Dave Jackson
00:23:59
It's the content that people are talking about that helps you grow your audience.

Dave Jackson
00:24:06
We're going to talk about Spotify's big announcement right after this.

Dave Jackson
00:24:52
All right.

Dave Jackson
00:24:52
Since we're talking about integrity, I am not a fan of Spotify for podcasters.

Dave Jackson
00:24:58
And the first thing is, well, number one, I don't think they really like podcasters because of the open availability of it.

Dave Jackson
00:25:07
If you kick me off of Spotify, I don't care.

Dave Jackson
00:25:09
I can go.

Dave Jackson
00:25:10
You can still listen to me on Overcast or Amazon Music or whatever.

Dave Jackson
00:25:15
And I look, I am a paying customer of Spotify for their music.

Dave Jackson
00:25:20
I think they do that just amazing, right?

Dave Jackson
00:25:24
I love the suggestions I get, but as a podcasting service, they kind of get on my nerves.

Dave Jackson
00:25:29
And I have noticed over the years that they like to make big announcements that either a aren't entirely accurate when it comes to the reality, and they often Quietly remove those features, or in some cases, never do them.

Dave Jackson
00:25:50
So let me give you an example of this.

Dave Jackson
00:25:52
So I'm saying right now, Spotify has come out and said, we're going to start paying creators.

Dave Jackson
00:25:57
Sounds great, right?

Dave Jackson
00:25:59
Everybody's like, where does the line form?

Dave Jackson
00:26:01
Wait, it's free media host.

Dave Jackson
00:26:02
And I get paid.

Dave Jackson
00:26:04
I'm coming there.

Dave Jackson
00:26:05
All right?

Dave Jackson
00:26:05
To which I go, easy, easy now.

Dave Jackson
00:26:08
And look, I used to say stuff like this before, and people go, oh, you say that because you work for Libsyn.

Dave Jackson
00:26:13
Why don't work for Libsyn anymore?

Dave Jackson
00:26:15
I got no dog in the media host hunt.

Dave Jackson
00:26:18
I'm just saying, not a great choice.

Dave Jackson
00:26:20
So here's the thing.

Dave Jackson
00:26:21
You can make money with Spotify for creators.

Dave Jackson
00:26:25
Yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:26:25
So they got the word podcast out of their name.

Dave Jackson
00:26:28
You know, to that I say exhibit A.

Dave Jackson
00:26:31
But anyway, eligibility for the Spotify partner program requires you to use Spotify for creators previously known as anchor to host your podcast, or if you're on megaphone in some cases, and you need at least 12 episodes.

Dave Jackson
00:26:48
So all those people that are like, check, test, test, check, test, and they quit after two episodes.

Dave Jackson
00:26:53
Nope.

Dave Jackson
00:26:54
And those people that don't make it past seven.

Dave Jackson
00:26:56
Nope.

Dave Jackson
00:26:57
And it says 2000 unique.

Dave Jackson
00:27:00
Now why is that important?

Dave Jackson
00:27:03
2000 unique Spotify users in the last month.

Dave Jackson
00:27:09
So unique means you can't have your cousin and your uncle and your brother and your mom.

Dave Jackson
00:27:17
Just keep going to Spotify because that's going to.

Dave Jackson
00:27:19
What did I say?

Dave Jackson
00:27:20
Uncle, cousin, sister, brother.

Dave Jackson
00:27:23
Right.

Dave Jackson
00:27:23
That's like four or five people.

Dave Jackson
00:27:25
You need 2,000 of those.

Dave Jackson
00:27:28
And if you're wondering, wait, 2,000amonth?

Dave Jackson
00:27:32
Yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:27:32
So if we.

Dave Jackson
00:27:33
It's time for fun with math.

Dave Jackson
00:27:35
That's always great.

Dave Jackson
00:27:37
It is 2000 divided by.

Dave Jackson
00:27:39
Let's go 30.

Dave Jackson
00:27:40
Just to keep the number nice and simple.

Dave Jackson
00:27:42
If you divide that by 30, you end up with 67 people a day that are.

Dave Jackson
00:27:51
That are different.

Dave Jackson
00:27:52
So two classrooms of people come through, listen to your stuff, and then the next day, another two classrooms of people.

Dave Jackson
00:27:59
Okay, got it.

Dave Jackson
00:28:00
All right, so that's that.

Dave Jackson
00:28:01
2,000 unique Spotify users in the last month and 10,000 streamed hours in the last month.

Dave Jackson
00:28:09
And you're like, huh?

Dave Jackson
00:28:10
Well, what's YouTube?

Dave Jackson
00:28:12
YouTube?

Dave Jackson
00:28:13
You need 1,000 all time, not monthly, all time subscribers and 4,000 streamed hours in the last year.

Dave Jackson
00:28:27
So what does that mean?

Dave Jackson
00:28:28
That means if you don't have a very large show, you're not making a dime.

Dave Jackson
00:28:35
So keep that in mind.

Dave Jackson
00:28:37
They also announced that it's now possible to upload video clips and video thumbnails for every episode.

Dave Jackson
00:28:44
So let's say I have Libsyn and I submit my show to Spotify and I go in and upload a video.

Dave Jackson
00:28:55
Spotify is no longer.

Dave Jackson
00:28:58
They are now the host.

Dave Jackson
00:28:59
You've basically cut Libsyn out of the hosting business for that episode.

Dave Jackson
00:29:04
So when all of a sudden your numbers in Libsyn, and this could be Buzz, Proud or captivate or whoever, those numbers aren't going to go up anymore because Spotify is now the host for that episode.

Dave Jackson
00:29:18
And so I say this because we don't know how much you're going to get paid now.

Dave Jackson
00:29:26
I highly doubt that they're going to be paying you.

Dave Jackson
00:29:30
Although it is going to be, you know, the big people, the super duper popular people.

Dave Jackson
00:29:36
Are they going to get the $20 per 1000 downloads I'm going to put my money on?

Dave Jackson
00:29:41
No, but I could be wrong.

Dave Jackson
00:29:44
But I'm just here to say we don't know when they say we're going to pay creators, they're not saying how much.

Dave Jackson
00:29:52
And if you want an idea of what musicians are making, if you listen to a song on Spotify, that musician is making somewhere between.003 all the way up to 0.005 cents per stream, which means you gotta have a ton.

Dave Jackson
00:30:13
So, yes, this could be a potential revenue stream.

Dave Jackson
00:30:18
But as always, I'm waiting to hear the details from Spotify because in the past, they said, hey, you can play music in your podcast.

Dave Jackson
00:30:29
And we're like, what?

Dave Jackson
00:30:31
I can play AC DC as my opening music.

Dave Jackson
00:30:33
And they went, well.

Dave Jackson
00:30:34
And again, this is where the asterisks come in.

Dave Jackson
00:30:37
Asterisks.

Dave Jackson
00:30:38
You can't listen on the Spotify website.

Dave Jackson
00:30:40
It has to be in the app.

Dave Jackson
00:30:42
And you're like, oh, okay, oh, wait, asterisks.

Dave Jackson
00:30:45
But only if you're a paying member of Spotify and you're listening in the app and you're like, oh, well, okay, all right, fine.

Dave Jackson
00:30:53
Oh, wait, hold on.

Dave Jackson
00:30:54
And we have to approve every episode.

Dave Jackson
00:30:57
And you're like, really?

Dave Jackson
00:30:58
Oh, well, okay.

Dave Jackson
00:31:00
And so I tried that.

Dave Jackson
00:31:02
And yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:31:03
And then I don't know.

Dave Jackson
00:31:04
I don't know how many months it was.

Dave Jackson
00:31:05
I don't know that it made it a year.

Dave Jackson
00:31:07
They went, yeah, that thing we're doing where you can play.

Dave Jackson
00:31:10
Yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:31:11
But it did get a bunch of people to sign up at Spotify, which makes our stock go up.

Dave Jackson
00:31:17
So I hope they prove me wrong.

Dave Jackson
00:31:19
And this is a great financial thing.

Dave Jackson
00:31:21
But also keep in mind that what they're doing is based on advertising.

Dave Jackson
00:31:27
And when you base your income on advertising advertisers love.

Dave Jackson
00:31:33
Now we're going to start into that whole brand safe stuff.

Dave Jackson
00:31:37
And to me, how do you spell boring?

Dave Jackson
00:31:40
Brand safe.

Dave Jackson
00:31:41
And that doesn't mean you have to be some sort of pirate radio.

Dave Jackson
00:31:45
That's, you know, crazy.

Dave Jackson
00:31:46
And Sam, I'm just saying that so far, the brand safety experiment has been horrible, of flagging things that aren't remotely close to being unsafe because they don't understand slang and they don't understand, I don't know, common sense.

Dave Jackson
00:32:02
So my thought on Spotify at this point, before you go leaving your media host to go get some big bucks over at Spotify, I'm like, let's give it a second and see what the asterisk is, are when they actually roll this out.

Dave Jackson
00:33:03
Hey, you are still here.

Dave Jackson
00:33:04
Which means you are a, an avid listener, and I appreciate that and I build this show for you.

Dave Jackson
00:33:13
And so one of the cool things that happened over at POD Page is we released a listener survey tool.

Dave Jackson
00:33:20
And what's phenomenal about this?

Dave Jackson
00:33:23
And it's so cool.

Dave Jackson
00:33:23
I've talked a lot about the book, you know, the Audience Is Listening by Tom Webster.

Dave Jackson
00:33:30
And we approached Tom and said, hey, you've got these really cool questions about making a survey in your book.

Dave Jackson
00:33:37
Can we use them?

Dave Jackson
00:33:39
And Tom said, yes.

Dave Jackson
00:33:42
And so how this works in POD Page is you basically go over, you say, I want to make a survey.

Dave Jackson
00:33:49
And there are, I believe, 19 questions.

Dave Jackson
00:33:51
Now, I don't know that I would use all 19, but you be you, but you choose the ones that you want and then what's.

Dave Jackson
00:33:58
You can name it whatever you want.

Dave Jackson
00:33:59
So I'm going to call mine survey 24, because it's 2024 and it's a survey.

Dave Jackson
00:34:04
And whatever your website is, if you're using POD Page, you can go to yourwebsite.com survey and it will direct to whatever survey you have.

Dave Jackson
00:34:15
So what happens if it's 2026 and you're doing another survey?

Dave Jackson
00:34:20
Well, you just go to your website, dot com 2026 and it will go to the latest survey that you have that is open to taking, you know, results and taking feedback.

Dave Jackson
00:34:32
And so in the end, and you'll hear me talk about this in the future, it all comes down to understanding your audience.

Dave Jackson
00:34:41
It really does.

Dave Jackson
00:34:42
Everything starts there.

Dave Jackson
00:34:44
Yes, you have to know why you're doing it and things like that.

Dave Jackson
00:34:46
But the one thing you have to really know, and I have things at the school of podcasting that kind of show you how you can get some insights but the easiest insight, the easiest way to get feedback and understand and quit guessing about what your audience thinks is to simply ask them.

Dave Jackson
00:35:05
Now, I realize that's kind of scary.

Dave Jackson
00:35:09
I mean, what if they say, david, that show's terrible, Bobby.

Dave Jackson
00:35:14
Right.

Dave Jackson
00:35:15
So that's no fun to hear.

Dave Jackson
00:35:16
But on the other hand, what is the purpose of putting out content if it's not resonating with people?

Dave Jackson
00:35:24
We're going to talk about this.

Dave Jackson
00:35:25
I was going to do the topic of working with a coach and receiving advice and how to use advice and how to ask for advice.

Dave Jackson
00:35:34
And then the Tyson thing came up and I was like, hey, let's talk about that now and we'll talk about advice maybe in the future.

Dave Jackson
00:35:41
But I wanted to let you know that I am welcoming all feedback, good and bad.

Dave Jackson
00:35:48
If you go to school of podcasting.com survey and I'm going to run this now, which is halfway through November 2024 through the end of December 2024, and someone will get a free year at the School of Podcasting.

Dave Jackson
00:36:08
How cool is that?

Dave Jackson
00:36:09
So if you want to help me make this show better, help me make this show more tailored to what you want and deliver more value, Simply go to schoolofpodcasting.com survey.

Co-host
00:36:23
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson
00:36:24
We will also be talking content bravery in the future because I, I've been looking at kind of a year end kind of thing, my completion rate in Apple podcast, and I have one episode that just tanked and I was like, hmm, maybe I should try that again with a different format.

Dave Jackson
00:36:47
And so sometimes you try something and it doesn't work.

Dave Jackson
00:36:53
And as much as we go, oh, that was dumb.

Dave Jackson
00:36:56
Was it?

Dave Jackson
00:36:57
It was brave.

Dave Jackson
00:36:58
You tried something.

Dave Jackson
00:37:00
Not every chapter has highlights in it.

Dave Jackson
00:37:02
And so we might talk about that in the future as well.

Dave Jackson
00:37:06
It's all about making great content, doing smart promotion to get the word out there, to get your show in front of people who don't listen to your show, that don't watch your show, but doggone it, they should.

Dave Jackson
00:37:19
And I would love to help you with that.

Dave Jackson
00:37:21
That's what I do.

Dave Jackson
00:37:22
I help podcasters, whether it's planning, launching, growing, monetizing.

Dave Jackson
00:37:26
It's all there.

Dave Jackson
00:37:27
School of Podcasting.com join use the coupon code listener to save on either a monthly or yearly subscription.

Dave Jackson
00:37:36
And until next week, take care.

Dave Jackson
00:37:39
God bless.

Dave Jackson
00:37:40
Class is dismissed.

Dave Jackson
00:37:56
But should.

Dave Jackson
00:37:58
Why did I say should there?

Dave Jackson
00:38:00
I don't know.

Dave Jackson
00:38:01
It's very weird.

Dave Jackson
00:38:02
My mouth is, I'm done.

Dave Jackson
00:38:04
Come on, I'm at the end.

Dave Jackson
00:38:05
Just hang with me.

Dave Jackson
00:38:06
Mouth.

Dave Jackson
00:38:07
We can do this.