Why AI Is Making Creative Strategists Lazy (And How to Fix It) | Hannah Houg & Matthew Gattozzi

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One of the biggest questions
that comes up inside
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the Foxwell Founders community
is around hiring.
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How do you know and how do you find great
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people that you can actually
trust to do the job?
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That's why I want to talk to you about
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Propel. Propel has placed more
than 75 employees for
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members of Foxwell Founders. Some of the
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hardest roles our members have
been trying to fill for
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months, they filled quickly
and efficiently.
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We're talking from video
editors to graphic
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designers, media buyers,
and more in Latin
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America to managers, directors,
and heads of department
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and VPs in the US, they have
done it all. They
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can help you build that team
that scales faster.
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I know that this is an ad
read and I know that
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it's totally one of those
things you're like,
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well, it's whatever, it's an
ad. Honestly, though,
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I literally use this and have
used Propel and the
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team over at Propel for all
of these things.
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They filled offshore, they
filled domestic,
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like I just said. It's absolutely
incredible.
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And honestly, the founder,
Leandro, used to run
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an econ brand and performance
marketing agency.
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So he gets it. That's one of
the things I've always
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loved about Leandro and what
I love about dealing
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with him. I have never even heard
a negative review
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about working with them.
One time, somebody
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said it wasn't working out and
Leandro immediately
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replaced the candidate that he had put in
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the position for a person.
That's like the only
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feedback I've ever heard. The
way that they work
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is simple. It's performance-based.
You only pay a
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one-off fee once you actually
hire someone.
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There's no retainers, no ongoing
costs, and every hire is
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backed by a three-month guarantee.
So go to the
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show notes, check it out. Let
me know what you think.
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And if you have questions about this,
feel free to hit me up,
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Andrew at foxwelldigital.com.
I'm happy to talk
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about it. If you go to the link
in the show notes,
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you get 10% off your first hire
with them. It's a
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great deal, really special for
podcast listeners.
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So I look forward to hopefully helping
your brand grow and scale.
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And now let's take a listen to the
Scalability School podcast.
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Welcome to another episode of Scalability
School. I mean, we have so much
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happening today. Honestly,
this episode is
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going to be an absolutely wild
one. First of all,
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we have Brad in his car because
his kids are too
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loud and he's getting construction
done at his house.
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Matthew Gattozzi is on the
episode along with
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Anna Haug. This is a freaking
insane episode.
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You need to just wherever
you are, put on a
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seatbelt. If you don't, if you're
not in a place where there
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is a seatbelt, you probably
need to buy one.
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Brad, put a seatbelt on.
Put a seatbelt on.
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Brad is literally putting a seatbelt on
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because we are going to just
get into so much today.
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You know, the episode, I don't know if you
guys remember this, but the episode is,
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is why AI is making creative
strategists lazy
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and how to fix it, which is
just, I mean, let's,
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let's like start some fights.
I apparently is what
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our goal was with this. But
the idea is really to
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kind of talk about AI in a real way as it
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relates to creative strategists
and what's going on.
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And, you know, look, it's not
a, it's like, it's
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so here, right? And we're all
using it. And I think
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a lot of people are talking about this
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degradation of thinking and that's
what we're into today. So
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welcome Hannah and Matthew and Brad, as
always love you. So handsome.
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Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.
Live from, live from
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the car. Well, I think, I think
both of you have
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like a really interesting
perspective because
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we know that both of you use
AI in your flows for
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sure. Right. Um, Hannah, you have some
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experience with Parker and you work
with Parker and that's
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predominantly AI tool. Uh,
and, and Matthew,
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I know we haven't talked too
much about this,
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but like, I know you've used
like definitely some
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backend tools, like help organize
clips and things
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like that. And so it's not
like we're saying
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don't use AI, but what we're
saying is there's a,
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there's important parts of
the process where you
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can't just outsource your thinking
in your brain,
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uh, to AI completely. Uh,
and so I think what
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we would love to just dig in
with the both of you
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is, okay, how, where do those
things differ? And
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if somebody walks away from this,
I think they walk
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away saying, okay, I was doing
that. That was
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dumb. I should stop doing
this. And instead,
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this is where I insert my, my
thinking brain or I
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hire some really smart person
to help me with this
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part of the process because
they just don't have
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the talent to do that. And
so, um, I don't know
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there's anywhere in particular
that you want to,
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either of you want to kick off
on a hand. I know you
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have some, you have some thoughts
on this, but,
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um, maybe where we get, maybe
where it's worth
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starting with is just like,
um, we can start
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with a simple, simple version
of it is how good ads
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actually get made, or we could
go right into the
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mistakes that people are making
with AI. I don't
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know, uh, what, uh, what gets
you more excited to
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talk about, but we can jump in
in either direction.
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Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean,
this is such a
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loaded and like new, um, new
and upcoming problem
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in the scene that I feel like because AI
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is just like came through
like a waterfall,
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we didn't really have a moment where we
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stopped and thought about anything
before we started
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executing and just running
wild with it. Sort of
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like the gold rush, which has
been an incredible
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thing. But me as a strategist
and as somebody who,
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who continues to write briefs
and hooks and do audits
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brands and, uh, help them through
their creative
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processes, um, it's been incredible
just to see
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and to understand some of
the common pitfalls
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that I'm noticing are weakening
my creative judgment.
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And so this is really just
coming from a place
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of personal experience, like
anything that I say
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today as well, because, and
I do just want to
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be honest about the process
because I think that
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that's, that's, what's going
to actually be able
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to help people understand how
to best use it and
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when to also pull back and
reserve their human
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judgment and, um, thinking
processes. So yeah,
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there's a million different
directions that I
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could go with this, but I think
like the biggest thing
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that I'm just like feeling myself
and also seeing
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from some of my other strategist
friends and briefs
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I'm getting back from so-called
strategists
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in the space, et cetera,
is just, um, yeah,
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we're seeing a lot of the same
sameness. And the
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only thing that I can really
attribute that to is
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that, um, you know, we haven't,
is that we're,
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we're degrading a muscle that
might have already
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been there, was strategically
there before and
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is slowly being, um, like off-put
to AI over time.
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So that's kind of like my biggest
thing that I'm
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seeing and, um, yeah, I have
a lot of different
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experiences from like the
research phase all
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the way through the entire
journey of where,
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you know, common mistakes that
I've found myself
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in as well as, um, I'm just keeping
very close eyes
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on myself. So yeah, I don't
know what your, uh,
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overall thoughts are Matthew
from what you're seeing
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from your team, from the
agency perspective.
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Um, I'm more of a siloed creative,
uh, consultant
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and like more boutique agency.
So I only deal with
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a handful of, you know, a small
handful of clients,
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but, um, yeah, it's, it's been
very something that
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I'm passionate about stopping
before it gets too far.
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Uh, if that makes sense. So
we can talk about
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what that kind of looks like
here in this episode.
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Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I,
I feel that I think
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it is really interesting to
see how before it felt
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kind of dirty to use AI, like,
especially like
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very early on, like even just
a few years ago,
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felt like, uh, like, will
people kind of see
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it as a bad thing that me as
a service provider
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is using AI now it feels like
it's stupid to not
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use it. Right. And it's also
gotten way better.
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So it's definitely been this
kind of this, this
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real big swing. Um, but I think
what happens is,
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is that a lot of people, myself
included, we think
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a lot about our workflows and
how we're doing things
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and we want to be efficient.
We want to be fast for
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our clients, et cetera. But
I think, um, one thing
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that we always have to remember,
and I think
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because we are so focused on creative
at Goodo Studios
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is what actually has made
great ads like in
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perpetuity. Um, so not even
just thinking about
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in the last like year, but
like what makes great
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ads. And it's usually when
you can find an idea
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that can break through the noise, right.
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And can, can have something
that is different,
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that is interesting, that
usually breaks the
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rules. Um, and this is true.
Like when you,
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when you think about like
some of the best ad
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campaigns or whatever, they've
done something,
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they had some sort of insight,
they did something,
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they, they showed something that
was very different.
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Right. And so I think that
like, uh, AI is very
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good at following rules, right.
But it's not good
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at breaking rules. And it,
even if you're trying
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to prompt it, it has to kind
of be confined in a
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certain space. And so I think
what's happening
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oftentimes is that people
are focused so much
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on efficiency and the creation
of the ads and in
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the strategy and a lot of other
facets that then
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they get a lot of ads out.
And then they're
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thinking, well, why are we
not hitting scale?
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Why are we not blank? And
it's like, well, you
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need a different style. You need
a different format.
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And usually your workflow
is kind of set for a
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certain style or efficiency,
like towards a certain
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way. And even if you took AI
out of it, like, I
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still think that your team
setup would kind of
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probably go the same route anyway.
Like AI is just
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like making that even more obtuse.
So the reality
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is, is that if you are not
encouraging people to
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really have out there ideas and
really get off of AI
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to do that, whether that's
finding inspiration,
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trying to combine two different
ideas from very
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different industries into
one or whatever, if
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you're not teaching how to
build formats and new
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ideas, then I don't think that
AI can like really
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help you there. And I think
that's what's getting
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missed for a lot of brands and
agencies. And we're
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seeing that. And that's something
that I've realized,
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like, we have to protect that.
Or else, like,
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we're just going to be an
efficiency shop. And
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that's not what Goodo Studios
was built to do. And,
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you know, it's really about
protecting the mission
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more so than anything else.
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So let's talk about this.
So one is like, how
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do we go through and help people
make better ads?
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Because I think right now,
what's happened is
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you guys have talked about,
you know, it comes,
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AI comes through and it's become
a volume game.
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And it's like, how quickly can
we get this stuff out?
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So where is the process being
messed up? So I
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think right now, let's just as
a creative strategist,
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what a lot of what people are
doing is, you know,
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they're utilizing AI for research.
And that I think
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that's okay. And I think that
seems to be good.
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I think that where we have
seen a degradation in
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quality of, and also like,
help doesn't help in
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making a better ad is within
the briefing process.
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I don't know what you guys
think. But it's, it's
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almost like, there, you know,
you look at somebody
230
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like who's Mr. Anti AI, like
Harry Delmage, and he
231
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doesn't do any, you know, his
team is like deeply
232
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researching. And that's,
that's what that's
233
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what they're doing. And he talked
about that in a
234
00:11:29,159 --> 00:11:32,360
previous episode. And so what
are what do you
235
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guys see in terms of, you
know, those that are
236
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actually making ads that are
absolute bangers?
237
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You know, are they is it that
they're researching,
238
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you know, manually, or they're
using maybe
239
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AI little, and then they're
briefing manually,
240
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as well? Or what is it?
241
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:56,000
Yeah, for me, I mean, I, I'm
with Matt on like,
242
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,559
going back to the basics and
keeping things very
243
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simple. Because those are
the things that have
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worked time and time again.
And so, like making
245
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sure that we're focused on
just like, the basics
246
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of advertising principles, is
it, is it real? Is it
247
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simple? Is it novel? Is it
going to solve like
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the problem in the viewers mind?
So those are like,
249
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from a very high level, some
of the things I'm
250
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seeing, but I feel like right
now, and I don't
251
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know, I feel like more of
the thing that I've
252
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been heightened and aware of
is what's making like,
253
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poor decisions and poor ads
right now. And I know
254
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that that's crazy, because we
always want to focus
255
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on like, what is making a
good ad. But that's
256
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:50,440
the whole point of even kind
of like, my hypothesis
257
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around, around this is like, you, when it
258
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comes to AI, like, what I've
realized it cannot do,
259
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is come up with the big idea,
like, in plain old
260
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David Ogbe's like, understanding,
and that's where
261
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I've seen it fall short, time
and time again. So if
262
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you don't have a big idea, and
you don't even have
263
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a format that you're like,
thinking of between
264
00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:19,159
those two things, what do you
actually really have?
265
00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,840
And so I've just seen like,
this, this very
266
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ineffective form of prompting,
hoping and doing
267
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all seemingly the right things with AI,
268
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finding extracting your personas,
understanding and
269
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pulling out customer data to
support it. But when it
270
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comes to like, actually building
the ad, the literal
271
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idea, the connective tissue
of it, like falls
272
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completely short. And that's
just because AI doesn't
273
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have the opportunity to visualize
an idea to an
274
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extent that the human mind can,
we can find one really
275
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strong winner, and plug it into
AI and say, like,
276
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hey, how can we make like multiple
formats, and it
277
00:14:06,159 --> 00:14:09,279
will give us some like surface
level ideas. But
278
00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:12,519
nothing will at this point in
time, be able to beat
279
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:18,080
the human ability to sit down
and to understand
280
00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:20,600
all the different mechanisms
from that audience
281
00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:24,799
perspective, format wise, that
are possible within
282
00:14:24,879 --> 00:14:28,759
a simple ad. So right there,
you're already breaking
283
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,200
because you're leaving ads
on potential ads on
284
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the table within something
that's already worked
285
00:14:36,159 --> 00:14:38,919
before. And so I think like
the the trap is
286
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,279
like trying to use it to find
not only yes, we're
287
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,279
shortcutting thinking right
now, which we can
288
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,039
get into a little bit later.
But we're also like
289
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,159
shortcutting our end result
or the open loop
290
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,200
in our head, because the open
loop becomes just
291
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,240
efficiency, getting the ad
out there versus
292
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,840
like actually coming to AI with
a true hypothesis.
293
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,919
And now what I'm seeing is more and more
294
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,639
strategists relying on AI
to give them those
295
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,279
hypothesis that are running
their strategies.
296
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:15,919
And I think that's such a dangerous
game to play.
297
00:15:16,039 --> 00:15:20,720
And I have found myself. I
found myself in that
298
00:15:20,799 --> 00:15:26,039
exact same trap before. And
the the trade off is
299
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,120
you're not able to validate.
And if you don't
300
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,840
have human mind that's able
to validate, both with
301
00:15:32,919 --> 00:15:38,159
intuition and data, then you
are you're you're
302
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,039
walking, you're actually walking
blind. So I don't know.
303
00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:43,879
Um, that's I'm, I'm super focused on the
304
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,720
mistakes right now. Maybe that's
just because I'm also
305
00:15:46,799 --> 00:15:50,799
building a tool that I'm able
to really is like
306
00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:54,960
a red light of how people prompt
and people work
307
00:15:55,159 --> 00:15:58,759
within these systems. Um,
and it's, it can be
308
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,039
alarming to see, um, what we're
just so willing to
309
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,200
accept without, um, and assume,
and we already
310
00:16:06,279 --> 00:16:10,480
know what kills most ads are
assumptions. And so
311
00:16:10,559 --> 00:16:15,200
if we are the ones that are
prompting this tool
312
00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:20,000
and also taking those assumptions,
then how much
313
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,840
are we actually like leading
on the table? Um, so
314
00:16:24,919 --> 00:16:28,919
it's something that I'm, I'm,
I'm very cautious of.
315
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,279
Um, and when it comes to
making good ads, I
316
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,519
have like, I know that sounds
super kosher to say,
317
00:16:35,879 --> 00:16:39,000
go back to the basics, but
this is what I mean.
318
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,919
Like I do not go to AI to
write a script first
319
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,919
anymore. And I used to,
um, I used to play
320
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,919
around like that. We don't do
that anymore because I
321
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,200
realized, um, not just the quality
of my copywriting
322
00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:56,559
or my scripts was degrading,
but every time I would
323
00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:00,919
open up my laptop and try to
go write a script, I
324
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,919
would have a hard time doing
it all of a sudden.
325
00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:05,359
And I've been doing this
for five years. So
326
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,839
then something, so where can
this be attributed to?
327
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,680
It can only be attributed
to my brain knowing
328
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,599
that there is a faster way
of thinking, a more
329
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,559
efficient way. And so for it
to unlock from out
330
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,400
of that, I actually have to
untrain it already.
331
00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:24,400
And it's only been a few months
since my mind's
332
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,960
been operating this way. So
I think it's just like
333
00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:30,039
really, really important
to take a step back
334
00:17:30,279 --> 00:17:33,960
before you just like follow the
races, which is what,
335
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:38,359
which is the tendency and
the, and the fear to
336
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:43,000
continue moving on. Um, and
that's how the best,
337
00:17:43,079 --> 00:17:45,160
the best ads are going to get
made. And instead
338
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,480
of like encouraging your team
and making them like,
339
00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:51,160
understand how to be AI efficient,
otherwise
340
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,200
your job's going to get replaced.
It's like,
341
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,920
we actually have to be training
the perfect
342
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,759
balance of the two. And we don't
know how to do that.
343
00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:02,240
Well, that is something that
we actually have to
344
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,519
use our brains to think about.
Okay. I'm off my
345
00:18:04,599 --> 00:18:07,480
pedestal. No, that's good. It's
good. And I think
346
00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:09,400
it'd be interesting to dig into.
So I think there's,
347
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,039
there's, there's the, there's
the negative side
348
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:12,400
of it, which I think is important
to address. So
349
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,640
people maybe stop making the
mistakes that I think
350
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,839
we're all seeing. So I think,
uh, I think it'd be
351
00:18:17,079 --> 00:18:19,039
quick, cool to quick go around
the horn and just
352
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:20,880
say like, okay, this is something
that we saw that
353
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,680
specifically happened in the
last week, or it's
354
00:18:22,759 --> 00:18:24,839
like, this is a really bad
use of AI. And then
355
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,440
we can kind of pivot into,
okay. Um, like you
356
00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:29,640
mentioned, um, the idea, like
actually having
357
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,519
the idea and Matthew, you mentioned
like finding
358
00:18:31,599 --> 00:18:33,720
the, finding the big idea and
like actually knowing
359
00:18:33,799 --> 00:18:35,400
where to go to research that
and come up with
360
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,279
that. Uh, Harry talked about,
uh, doom scrolling last
361
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,279
time we, like last time we talked
about this, just
362
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,640
like doom scrolling organic.
Uh, and so I'll kick it
363
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,880
off with, uh, with some mistakes
that I've seen.
364
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:46,880
One of the, one of the things
I've seen in the last
365
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,519
like couple of weeks is, um,
we've had folks who
366
00:18:49,599 --> 00:18:52,279
are just like, they do like,
uh, how long is the
367
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,720
ad analysis? And it's like,
okay, uh, fit 10
368
00:18:54,799 --> 00:18:57,039
seconds, 15 seconds, 30 seconds,
60 seconds. And
369
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:58,799
here's the, here's the efficiency
associated
370
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,519
with that. It's just like, okay,
what's in the ad?
371
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,799
Cause you could, you can make a static ad
372
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:05,559
that, that converts extremely
well and there's no,
373
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,279
there's no motion to it. Um, and so it's like
having, just going to AI and saying,
374
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,559
what's the most effective
length of like video
375
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,599
is just like, okay, well you
can tell a story in a
376
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,680
second or, you know, if you
have good copywriting
377
00:19:16,759 --> 00:19:18,880
or you can, you can over explain
it over the course
378
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,279
of three minutes and get nothing
accomplished.
379
00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:22,279
Um, and so like, that's a specific
use case where
380
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,119
I've seen, uh, some issues
happen like recently.
381
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:26,880
And, um, that's a common one
that pretty, pretty
382
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,759
often pops up. Um, but maybe
as you all think
383
00:19:29,839 --> 00:19:31,640
about your process and math, I'll
kick it over to you.
384
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,279
Like, as you think about your
process, um, where
385
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,920
do you like refuse to use AI
because you've seen
386
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,920
these mistakes? Um, just like
what, uh, specific
387
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,440
example for where you're seeing
a pop up would be
388
00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:45,279
sweet. Yeah. I think, I think
the, the, the big
389
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,880
ideas, right. So I think the
reason why people are
390
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,799
struggling with AI is because they don't
391
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,599
actually know their workflow to
come up with content,
392
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,079
right? Like let's take AI
out of the picture.
393
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,599
Like, let's say five years ago,
how did you make an ad?
394
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,920
We, you know, like it sounds
ridiculous. I was
395
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,880
just saying that, but it's
true. Like what was
396
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,279
the process, right? Like
you'd have to like
397
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,640
find things you're searching,
you're thinking about
398
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,640
the world. So I find that like,
anytime somebody
399
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:21,480
is like prompting, like Claude
to be like, give me
400
00:20:21,559 --> 00:20:27,000
like, like whatever, put
in, uh, the CSV of,
401
00:20:27,079 --> 00:20:29,839
of, you know, Facebook ads report
and being like,
402
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,640
they're, what are they going
to do? Like find
403
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,839
out like from the naming convention,
like what the
404
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,039
best like ad, uh, you know,
is. And ultimately
405
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,480
like the problem with that
is that it's because
406
00:20:41,559 --> 00:20:44,279
it's only looking at what is
exists now, but the
407
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,279
best brands are always creating
ideas that do not
408
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,079
exist, right? That is how you
get scale. And you
409
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,680
think about like what makes, uh,
any brand successful.
410
00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:57,680
It's when they can open up
the aperture of their
411
00:20:57,759 --> 00:20:59,839
marketing funnel. And how do
you do that? You have
412
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:03,119
to go through new messages,
new styles, new
413
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,559
formats, not what is already
existing currently.
414
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,839
And I think that what I try
to get my strategist
415
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,000
to do is they they're going on
walks during the day.
416
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,960
They're taking notes, right? They're
thinking about things.
417
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,519
We want people to use AI when
they already have
418
00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:26,319
that idea, um, or they already
have certain things
419
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,240
that then it can help in like
go quicker. So for
420
00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:33,480
example, it could be, I know
I need to do research
421
00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:36,200
about how the weighted blanket
can affect a
422
00:21:36,279 --> 00:21:39,920
man's testosterone and deep sleep.
Okay. I, I can't,
423
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,519
I can't, I'm not going to go
read a medical book
424
00:21:43,599 --> 00:21:45,519
about that, right? I'm going
to go to AI for that,
425
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,039
but I, I myself found that
link. Oh, that's a
426
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,359
new persona that we should hit
on. If we get more
427
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,759
specific there, maybe there's
a link that we
428
00:21:54,839 --> 00:21:57,440
could do, right? So that's
me doing dishes,
429
00:21:57,519 --> 00:21:59,839
thinking about that, trying
to solve the problem
430
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:02,839
for my client. Now I'm going
to go to AI to do that.
431
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,720
Or I have this visual that I
saw, like this would
432
00:22:06,799 --> 00:22:09,519
be the most incredible hook.
We're going to do this.
433
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,960
Now, when I go to AI, I
already am, I have
434
00:22:13,039 --> 00:22:15,400
the purpose. I am using it
to maybe make things
435
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:22,279
faster, but you've got to be able to, you know,
go in and, and, and get, uh, ideas.
436
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,799
The word taste comes up
a lot. The problem
437
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,200
with when people use taste and
usually it's people
438
00:22:27,279 --> 00:22:30,039
without taste, but, um, the,
the, the problem
439
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,319
with that is to have taste,
you have to have
440
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,640
experiences, right? And so
you've got to go and
441
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,799
live life. You've got to go
and watch reality TV,
442
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,359
watch commercials, doom scroll,
do all of the
443
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,279
things, right? Like that is
where you're going
444
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,279
to get ideas to then connect
it. And like Hannah
445
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,519
was saying, like, there's this
idea and the idea
446
00:22:50,599 --> 00:22:53,680
is the connective tissue across
like the ad itself.
447
00:22:53,759 --> 00:22:57,720
And it's like, most people are
just not like living
448
00:22:57,799 --> 00:22:59,920
life to do that. And I think
they're just hoping
449
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,720
that this almighty Claude is
going to like prompt
450
00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:05,720
them into like success. And
like, the reality is,
451
00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:08,799
is like getting off your computer,
reading books,
452
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,279
like meeting people, talking
to friends, like
453
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,799
that worked five years ago, 20
years ago. And that's
454
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,920
like the same thing. I think
AI can accelerate how
455
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,559
you do certain things, but it's
got to come from the
456
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,759
soul of the person. Um, so I
think that's totally
457
00:23:24,839 --> 00:23:27,240
what's missing in a lot of the,
a lot of marketing,
458
00:23:27,319 --> 00:23:28,759
I think to your point, Hannah,
right. It like goes
459
00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:30,960
back to the classics and I think
that's true. And I think
460
00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:33,680
you, you know, it's, it's like
one of the things
461
00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:37,880
that a lot of folks are doing
is they're outsourcing
462
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,240
the insight to AI, like letting
AI decide what's
463
00:23:41,319 --> 00:23:42,960
interesting about the customer
instead of doing
464
00:23:43,039 --> 00:23:45,200
the research themselves.
Right. And when you
465
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:47,599
get to that stage, that's really
dangerous because
466
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,279
it loses the judgment that
you have as a human.
467
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,799
Um, and you know, so I think
if I look across those
468
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,440
people that are really successful
right now
469
00:23:56,519 --> 00:23:59,160
that are creating ads that are
really working, um,
470
00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:04,240
it's not to say none of them
are AI generated or
471
00:24:04,319 --> 00:24:07,400
that AI hasn't played a role
in feeding the deep
472
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,640
context into it, um, of
customer language,
473
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,599
brand voice, the offer, that
kind of thing.
474
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,240
But predominantly there's
been a heavier hand
475
00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:22,279
of the person doing, let's say
80% of that ad was
476
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,920
generated or created by a human.
And that that's
477
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,559
like, and there's, you know,
so it's like, it's
478
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,680
aided, but it's not necessarily
the whole thing.
479
00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:32,119
It's not even close to the whole
thing. It's just
480
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,799
20% of it. And I guess I
would be curious of
481
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:40,359
like, what else you have all
seen of ads that are
482
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,039
performing in accounts? What
are the common
483
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,319
traits of that ad? And where
has AI played a role?
484
00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:51,799
All right, friends, quick break. This episode
is brought to you by North beam,
485
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,920
the marketing attribution
platform that we
486
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,119
love over here at scalability
school. If you're a
487
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,920
marketer, I mean, you probably
agree, right?
488
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,000
Incrementality testing is
broken. They were,
489
00:25:00,519 --> 00:25:02,319
these tests require tons of labor,
490
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:06,480
spreadsheets, statistical reference,
and the designing of a
491
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:08,519
test is slow and error prone. How are you
492
00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:10,759
supposed to know what to test in
the first place? Right?
493
00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:13,960
There's a million factors that can make
incrementality testing difficult,
494
00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:16,599
but the good news is North
beam has completely
495
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,200
changed the game and they fixed
this only North
496
00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:20,920
beam incrementality automates your
497
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,279
incrementality test design and monitoring
while protecting you
498
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:25,920
from the major mistakes that plague
499
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,039
incrementality testing. North beam
builds tests using your own
500
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,359
MTA data launches them directly
in ad platforms and
501
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,400
automatically monitors them throughout.
If something
502
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,559
threatens validity, you're
alerted before it
503
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,680
ruins the result with North beam.
You can launch tests
504
00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:45,000
in platform with a single click,
saving you tons of
505
00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:48,200
time and reducing any chance for
errors. And when the
506
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,680
test concludes, your results
flow straight into your
507
00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:55,240
MTA, meaning you can easily see
results alongside the rest
508
00:25:55,319 --> 00:25:58,240
of your data. Incrementality
was broken. North beam
509
00:25:58,319 --> 00:26:02,200
fixed it. Or has AI played a role
in that? I mean, I think I
510
00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:05,400
think what's winning right now
that I'm seeing is just
511
00:26:05,839 --> 00:26:10,480
being able to be more hyper specific.
So like, the more
512
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:13,759
specific you can be the better,
I think AI can help
513
00:26:13,839 --> 00:26:18,000
that because you can find like,
for example, I'm looking
514
00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:20,640
at medical conditions. How
can this one product
515
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,400
touch all of these different people,
but now I can be
516
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,759
hyper specific. So instead of
just being general in
517
00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:29,279
what I'm saying, like this thing
can help with your
518
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,119
sleep. I am saying this can
help for this specific
519
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,440
type of person. And you're really
like going more specific
520
00:26:36,519 --> 00:26:39,839
to that. And I think meta now
is at a place where
521
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,000
you it's going to find the right
people, the creative
522
00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:45,279
is the one that's doing the
targeting, put in
523
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,839
landing pages, you putting some
other things, and you can
524
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,880
really start to build like these
super niche, like
525
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,440
funnels, if you will. And I
just think that like,
526
00:26:55,519 --> 00:26:57,480
that's what to me is working.
And then there's
527
00:26:57,559 --> 00:27:00,240
just styles and formats based
on that, right? Like,
528
00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:03,519
can a yapper work for one person?
Yes, but maybe
529
00:27:03,599 --> 00:27:06,160
not for the other, right? So
if you know exactly who
530
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,519
you're trying to reach, then
you would know what
531
00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:10,960
styles and formats they would
need or want, and
532
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:14,039
then go from there. But to
me, it's about hyper
533
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,119
specificity. How do you find
like, are you doing,
534
00:27:19,559 --> 00:27:21,359
are you doing like manual research
to find that is
535
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,720
AI helping? Like, how do you like,
if you even if you
536
00:27:23,799 --> 00:27:25,319
have an example top of mind,
you meant you mentioned
537
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,119
the weighted blankets earlier.
It's like, how do you get
538
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,640
that insight in the first
place? Is it the
539
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,519
review mining, and you're manually
doing the review
540
00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:33,720
mining? Is it you have AI present?
Here's like,
541
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,599
here's, okay, we bucketed the
70, 70,000 reviews
542
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,319
you have in these five personas.
And here's like
543
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,559
specific examples of language
that people are like,
544
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:43,640
yeah, like, let's dig into,
okay, how do you
545
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,759
take a take something and go
deeper, and then more
546
00:27:46,839 --> 00:27:49,640
specific. And then the format
thing you said was
547
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:50,960
interesting, too. So if you
want to tie in that,
548
00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:52,400
that's great. It's like, okay,
now that we've
549
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,680
gone more specific, we know
that we're going for a
550
00:27:54,759 --> 00:27:56,400
mail 60 and up. We know that
they spend a lot of
551
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,359
time on Facebook. We know what
they respond to.
552
00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:59,920
They say they spend all their
time in Facebook
553
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,519
marketplace. Like, how are
you? Yeah, I think
554
00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:03,680
you know what I'm getting
at. It's like, yeah,
555
00:28:03,759 --> 00:28:05,519
yeah. Well, how are the threads?
How are you pulling
556
00:28:05,599 --> 00:28:08,160
those threads? So very like the
downside of review,
557
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,000
review mining, even if you did
it manually and read
558
00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:13,839
through all the reviews is like,
it's like, there
559
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,680
are times where you will find
a nugget where you're
560
00:28:16,759 --> 00:28:19,480
like, whoa, a persona that
we haven't talked to
561
00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:23,039
decided to buy this. But a lot
of times it's like,
562
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,640
well, you're going to get reviews from the
people you've already been marketing to,
563
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:29,920
right? So like, you may or
may not get like
564
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,960
the new personas and the new
things because like,
565
00:28:32,039 --> 00:28:33,640
you haven't been talking to
those people. So they
566
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,839
why would they come and buy from
you anyway? Right?
567
00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:40,680
But first, this specific reason,
our example, you
568
00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:44,160
know, we did see that some
parents were using it
569
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,799
for their kids, they mentioned ADHD with
570
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,000
their kids. So then you're
like, oh, okay, cool.
571
00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:52,000
Neurodivergence. You could
do that for adults.
572
00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:54,720
And then you're thinking, okay,
well, what other
573
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:56,880
health claims could you go
to? And then you
574
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,119
start to expand that. And then
using AI to say,
575
00:29:00,319 --> 00:29:02,960
how does a weighted blanket,
maybe there's
576
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:04,640
research that's connects
to that. And there
577
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,680
happened to be specific, like,
because I searched
578
00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:12,000
on AI, there were certain medical
journals that did
579
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:14,240
link to certain things. And
you're like, this
580
00:29:14,319 --> 00:29:16,319
is great. Now I literally have
a case study or a
581
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,440
clinical study on this. Like,
I wouldn't have
582
00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:20,559
thought to have found that
I'm not searching
583
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,880
medical stuff. But I had some
sort of insight.
584
00:29:24,119 --> 00:29:27,039
But I think also be careful because
you may not find
585
00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:29,559
new personas in the reviews.
So you also have
586
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,720
to, again, think about how
do you expand that.
587
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,400
And that's, I think, where
the AI falls short is
588
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:40,160
because you always are needing
to press and push
589
00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:42,519
and expand that aperture
of the funnel. And
590
00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:45,279
that's, that's got to come from
you and you alone,
591
00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:48,519
because AI is rules based. And
you got to find how
592
00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:50,960
can we break those rules? How
can we expand that?
593
00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:54,599
So, you know, then you go
from there, you're
594
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,160
like, okay, how can I use research?
How can I like,
595
00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:00,680
you know, understand it? And
I think that like, I
596
00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:03,519
think like the value of AI is
that you can have an
597
00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:06,319
idea and you can validate it
faster. And then that
598
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,200
can give you, you know, do you
spend the time and
599
00:30:10,279 --> 00:30:13,000
effort to get that made, that
ad to get made and
600
00:30:13,079 --> 00:30:16,359
all that stuff. You can, you
can test that out way
601
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,599
sooner before, right? And you
can also be able to
602
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,680
test out, you can spin up an
ad into a lander very
603
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:27,799
quickly now. So you can test
personas and more niche
604
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,279
things way quicker than you were
before. So there is
605
00:30:31,359 --> 00:30:35,599
value to AI, of course, but
you've got to make
606
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:40,160
sure that your team has space
to think. And I think
607
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,000
the problem right now is that
AI is suffocating
608
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:47,440
people because they are told
to do more. And what
609
00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:49,759
we really needed to be is we
need to give people
610
00:30:49,839 --> 00:30:53,079
space to think so that it can
accelerate once they're
611
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,319
ready to take action. So yeah,
that's, that's my
612
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:57,960
big thing right there. And I just
said that yesterday
613
00:30:58,039 --> 00:31:01,319
I was talking about it in reference to
614
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,599
copywriting and how, yeah. So I don't
know, Hannah, I don't
615
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,400
know if you want to talk about
this, but you know,
616
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,240
I know like, how do you feel
like copy and the way
617
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:15,680
to write copy and that type
of like protecting
618
00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:19,480
copywriting almost like within
this for a creative
619
00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:21,400
strategist? Cause I feel like
that's a lot of
620
00:31:21,799 --> 00:31:24,519
the magic that a creative,
like a real creative
621
00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:27,720
can put into a brief, um, especially
within the
622
00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:31,400
cues and within like what the
cuts might be. Um,
623
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,759
if it's really strong, um, I'd love
to hear your opinion on that.
624
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:38,440
Yeah, no, I think, okay. And
this is a hot take
625
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,200
maybe, but like, I have yet
to see a single LLM
626
00:31:43,279 --> 00:31:46,599
platform be able to like seemingly crack
627
00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:51,920
copywriting, like be able to actually
create a good script.
628
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,880
I mean, you guys are welcome
to like fight, but
629
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,000
like, even with deep context,
with what is deep
630
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:03,480
context to have like a perfectly
copywritten ad is
631
00:32:03,559 --> 00:32:06,880
like almost near impossible
at this point in time.
632
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,480
Um, obviously those things
can change, but I
633
00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:13,160
rather be on the side of things
as a strategist,
634
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:18,359
especially as I see how much
is still out there
635
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,480
that is subpar, um, when it comes
to good copywriting
636
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:26,440
from said strategy and strategist
teams, and even
637
00:32:26,759 --> 00:32:29,480
founders, brand owners right
now, still like common
638
00:32:29,559 --> 00:32:33,200
sense isn't always common
practice. Um, so
639
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:36,160
yeah, that's one of the biggest
things that I have,
640
00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:40,599
um, been attuned to, like I
said earlier with, um,
641
00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:44,640
just realizing that that is
a muscle that needs to
642
00:32:44,759 --> 00:32:49,640
constantly be flexed and that
I'm hesitant to give
643
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,400
away to AI, because if you were
to write a pros and
644
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,119
cons list, the cons list is
so much greater than
645
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,559
what I would think is the, uh,
a more appropriate
646
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,519
balance because I'm obviously
not, I'm also not
647
00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:06,759
for having the same strategist
in the account writing
648
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:10,839
every single ad, because you're
kidding yourself
649
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,440
also, if you don't think that
that strategist, like
650
00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:20,279
assumptions, biases, tone of writing,
it is effective
651
00:33:20,359 --> 00:33:25,440
for every single ad. Like that's
also, um, on the flip
652
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:30,000
side of quite being, you know,
the dichotomy. Um,
653
00:33:30,079 --> 00:33:32,960
so where I have found success
and where I've also
654
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:35,559
seen you asked earlier, like
what are the best
655
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,400
brands that are actually hitting
these numbers
656
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,079
doing? I can guarantee you that
they are providing
657
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,640
the creator. So talent, that
was one of the other
658
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,680
things, Matt, that I do think
was missed in
659
00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:50,240
terms of like the best, uh, brands
right now. And for
660
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,240
something we're super focused
on is just that
661
00:33:53,319 --> 00:33:57,119
talent match. No longer can
we just like afford to
662
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,640
have a subpar creator, but
they need to be
663
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,119
able to affect, they are part
of the message.
664
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:06,119
They are not just an actor.
They are literally
665
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,440
part of the message. And so when
you're writing copy
666
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,320
for these ads, for these individuals,
which we all
667
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,599
know, Yapper ads and all these
things, it's like,
668
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,199
now it becomes less of like just
a pure copywriting
669
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,199
skill, but an extraction skill
or a briefing skill,
670
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,039
right? Extraction from the talent
and briefing to
671
00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:29,760
them. And so where I found
the balance is using,
672
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,400
um, you know, AI through these
research processes,
673
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,800
through knowing your persona,
I'm a big proponent
674
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,440
of coming to AI already with
your hypothesis,
675
00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:42,159
kind of like what Matt said earlier,
and to use it as
676
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,400
further validation and backup,
uh, versus just
677
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,840
like, what should I be doing here?
What persona should I
678
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:54,400
hit versus, um, and to, yeah,
to create ads that
679
00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:59,920
give the creator and use AI to
structure those briefs
680
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,039
in a way that give creative
strategists their best
681
00:35:03,119 --> 00:35:06,519
playing field, which is that
ideation, that persona,
682
00:35:06,599 --> 00:35:12,159
uh, uh, identification, that,
that big idea that
683
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,320
they can craft the brief around,
create talking points,
684
00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:18,599
potentially even hooks for the
creator, and then let
685
00:35:18,679 --> 00:35:23,159
the creator speak or write the script
in their own words.
686
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,039
And then we get to tidy it
up just from a very
687
00:35:26,119 --> 00:35:31,239
like pacing, um, you know,
visuals standpoint.
688
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,119
And that allows us to have more
winners because we're
689
00:35:35,199 --> 00:35:37,880
actually authentically speaking
in the customer voice.
690
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,000
So yes, as a strategist, you
can go, you can go
691
00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:45,239
mine, you can go and create ads
from those reviews,
692
00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:48,480
but nothing's also going to,
uh, change an actual,
693
00:35:48,559 --> 00:35:50,880
like as close to the real customer
as you can get
694
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,639
and letting them cook with a little
bit of direction.
695
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,079
And my process has only gotten
stronger with AI
696
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,760
with that. Um, but it's in
a combination of me,
697
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:06,440
again, stepping back because
I cannot rely on AI
698
00:36:06,519 --> 00:36:10,320
for those big ideas to have
that, those creative,
699
00:36:10,679 --> 00:36:16,199
um, formats, um, or to contextually
apply from
700
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,000
experience to experience.
I can't offload that
701
00:36:20,079 --> 00:36:22,760
thinking. So, um, yeah, when it comes to
702
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,960
copywriting, the biggest thing that
I have done is to try to
703
00:36:26,039 --> 00:36:29,760
write the ad myself or to
write it in the most
704
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,519
simplest forms first, if I
am writing the script
705
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,880
and if not just like effectively
crafting the
706
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,480
message, um, in bullet points
even so that if I can
707
00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:44,320
explain it through just that,
then a creator is
708
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,000
going to be able to speak
upon it as well. Um,
709
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:49,559
and so it's just, it's really helped get
710
00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:52,639
those authentic, like more
authentic ads, um,
711
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,119
from those, uh, specific
talent, which is a
712
00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:59,239
huge portion of the unlocks
right now, as we know,
713
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,760
creators are pretty much make
it or break it in
714
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:07,280
2026 and beyond. Yeah. I feel
like you can get AI to
715
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,480
like, you can get AI to give
you a good script,
716
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:14,800
but your input has to be so good
and not from like a
717
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,960
copy my prompt input. I'm
talking like you
718
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:21,960
already have had to have
had the insights,
719
00:37:22,039 --> 00:37:24,000
the everything that you wanted, like you
720
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:26,960
kind of need it to be like
prebuilt. And like,
721
00:37:27,039 --> 00:37:29,519
that's kind of how I approach
copywriting now is
722
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:33,119
like, everything is prebuilt
kind of in my head.
723
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:35,239
And that's just like my process.
Like it is
724
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,199
about soaking things in. I'm
seeing other things. I
725
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,079
actually might be writing things
down on paper or
726
00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:43,480
whatever. When I'm going to
actually do the brief,
727
00:37:43,559 --> 00:37:45,599
this is pretty much done.
Right. It's cause
728
00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:47,079
I already have the ideas.
I already found the
729
00:37:47,159 --> 00:37:48,920
inspiration. I already know
everything that
730
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,119
I want. So like you can get
that, but like,
731
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:56,280
if you're starting the process,
like way back
732
00:37:56,559 --> 00:37:58,880
with AI and just hoping that,
you know, it's going to
733
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,679
give you that output, it's
just not, you know?
734
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,239
Um, and so I think that's like
the, the biggest
735
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,880
difference is like how you,
it is a tool, how you
736
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,559
use it and how prepared you
are when you are using
737
00:38:10,639 --> 00:38:14,199
that tool is the difference.
Um, less so like,
738
00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:17,239
like again, like how good
the prompt is. It's
739
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,119
really about like the insights
that you're
740
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:21,440
pumping in and that's going
to come from you.
741
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,360
If you let it drive, I mean, it's going
to take over the whole thing.
742
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:25,920
Just want to ask a follow-up,
like what, what are
743
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,880
the good inputs look like? Like
give, can you be,
744
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,119
like give a specific example?
Um, either of you,
745
00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:32,119
like what is, if you want to
get a good output,
746
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,800
what, what are the requirements
going in? Is it
747
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,320
a specific persona and how
to find it is like,
748
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,880
maybe use persona as the, as a deep
example. It's like, what,
749
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,840
what is the, what is the specific
detail that
750
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,760
you're saying? Is it, is it
as simple as men's
751
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,840
16 up? And I'm assuming it's
not, right? Like
752
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:49,239
there's a lot of more information
that goes into
753
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,480
it, but like what makes it, what
makes a good input?
754
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:57,719
Hmm. So we already have like
our process where
755
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,440
we've built out a brand intelligence
document.
756
00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:02,360
That's like all of the information
about the
757
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,599
brand, everything is like there.
So one, just having,
758
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,119
you don't want to start
the AI prompt with
759
00:39:10,199 --> 00:39:12,360
it, like starting to like crawl
the website. So
760
00:39:12,599 --> 00:39:14,440
having everything already like dialed in
761
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:16,960
and ready to go, that's like
step number one.
762
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,800
Then I'm coming in with
like, I might just
763
00:39:21,559 --> 00:39:26,920
literally say like, I, I will like
put whisper flow on and I
764
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,280
will just talk it out. Like
this is who I'm trying
765
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,440
to reach. I'm trying to hit whatever
the pain point
766
00:39:33,519 --> 00:39:35,559
or like, I really want to speak
to this emotion.
767
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,679
And there's, you know, plenty
of things that we do
768
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,400
in our process that like would
relate to it. So
769
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,800
it's not just like a generalized
person. It's like
770
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,119
personas to me, it doesn't
really matter. I
771
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:47,199
care more about like the psychographics
of things,
772
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,239
but like, I want to speak
directly to like the
773
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,400
parent that feels wired after
a long day of work
774
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,400
or ends with kids and like, they need the
775
00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:59,079
weighted blanket. Right. Um,
you're speaking to like
776
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,199
everything. I might even have
like formats of
777
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,320
like, Hey, I really want
it to be like this.
778
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,559
This is what I want to talk
about. I might even
779
00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:10,519
like say lines. Like I usually
have like lines or
780
00:40:10,599 --> 00:40:13,039
words that I really, really
like that just feel
781
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:16,639
really like, like it just energizes
me when I'm
782
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,239
thinking about the idea. So
I'm giving all of
783
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,559
that there. And then I'm just
like seeing what comes
784
00:40:21,639 --> 00:40:24,199
back and playing with it. Sometimes
if you already
785
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,519
have, like, I love this script
from another video
786
00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:29,920
and I want to use the structure
of this, like
787
00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:33,320
there's things you can do.
Um, but like, again,
788
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,159
having a lot of that deep research
already done
789
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,360
and like, you know, exactly
what you're trying to
790
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,800
accomplish. And like one
thing when it comes
791
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,360
to briefing, and this is before
you even get to
792
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,639
writing the script is there
should always be a
793
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,559
one sentence goal or angle and
everything else is
794
00:40:51,679 --> 00:40:54,840
judged by that. Like, does
the, does the brief
795
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,239
actually accomplish what you
wanted out of this?
796
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,719
And that's what I teach my strategist,
because if
797
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,159
I'm reviewing their brief, I
need to know what's,
798
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,079
what's the goal of this. Cause
then I'm going to
799
00:41:06,159 --> 00:41:10,320
judge the script on that goal
that you had set out.
800
00:41:10,599 --> 00:41:12,559
Right. And so I think the same
is true. I think
801
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,760
people just need to be clear
what they're trying
802
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,639
to accomplish in the first
place. And then that
803
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,800
will probably improve their outputs
already because
804
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:20,960
most people just don't even
know what they're
805
00:41:21,039 --> 00:41:23,679
doing. Um, and not because
they're not capable
806
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,360
marketers, but more so like
they are not, um,
807
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,920
very exact about what is the
goal of this ad.
808
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,960
Um, and I think that that
gets missed a lot.
809
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,519
Yeah. Sorry. I didn't mean
to jump in, but I'm
810
00:41:38,599 --> 00:41:40,239
curious, like what, what does
the goal mean? Like
811
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,280
if you, like when you ask a
strategist to tell you
812
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:43,719
what the goal, you said it's
a one sentence thing,
813
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,119
which I think is awesome. That's
super cool. I like
814
00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:47,599
that a lot. Is it, we want this person to
815
00:41:47,679 --> 00:41:50,039
experience this emotion and then
buy as a result of it? Or
816
00:41:50,119 --> 00:41:51,440
like, what is, can you give
an example? What is
817
00:41:51,519 --> 00:41:55,360
the end by the end of watching
this, uh, video,
818
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,199
who do you want to be continuing
to watch this
819
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,880
and what do you want them
to gain feel or see?
820
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,199
Right. And so, cause part of
it should be like,
821
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,280
are you kicking the right,
the wrong people out?
822
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,000
Right. Like you really want
it to be like, I don't
823
00:42:09,079 --> 00:42:11,440
want a random dude watching this.
I want a specific
824
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,599
parent that has a specific, uh, you know,
825
00:42:14,679 --> 00:42:17,480
experience to, to, to be
the person watching
826
00:42:17,559 --> 00:42:19,800
this. And this is what I want
them to know or
827
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,239
learn at the end of it, that
their kids can improve,
828
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,119
you know, their neurodivergence,
you know,
829
00:42:25,199 --> 00:42:26,559
experience, whatever through
this weighted
830
00:42:26,639 --> 00:42:28,039
blanket and this can help them,
blah, blah, blah,
831
00:42:28,119 --> 00:42:31,800
blah. Great. Now does that brief
that you just sent
832
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,039
me, does that, do we get to
that end state? Right.
833
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:36,960
And so it's really about what's
the end state of the
834
00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:41,440
viewer. Most people are not even thinking
about that. Right. And that's just like,
835
00:42:41,679 --> 00:42:43,239
now we're not even talking
about AI. And I
836
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:44,719
think that's the problem
is people, you just
837
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,880
throw in AI now they're just
like tool, tool, AI
838
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,880
quad. And it's like, let's
just get back to the
839
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,199
basis of great advertising.
Like, what are we
840
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,559
trying to get people to feel
at the end of watching
841
00:42:54,639 --> 00:42:57,000
something? Most people just
can't even answer
842
00:42:57,079 --> 00:42:59,639
that question. And so that's like,
that's why like AI
843
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,199
sucks or is good or bad,
whatever is because
844
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,079
like, they're not even thinking
about the practical
845
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,239
parts of like what is advertising.
It's to get
846
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,239
people to feel something, to
make a decision to
847
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,760
buy something. Yeah. Hannah,
are there any other
848
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,000
inputs that you would add? Yeah,
I would absolutely
849
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:18,360
double down on, and I'm right
with Matthew. Like
850
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,199
when I think about AI, even
script writing, for
851
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,320
example, if we want to just
like stick in the
852
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,119
script writing, it's like there,
it is virtually,
853
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,800
it is a death sentence just
to start from zero,
854
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,920
as we all know. And so having
what Matt was saying
855
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:39,599
was like a big idea or a format
are really kind
856
00:43:39,679 --> 00:43:43,159
of like the only two things
outside. I mean, you
857
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,519
can do some person, like you
could have your, when
858
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:48,159
I say persona, please know that
I don't just mean
859
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,320
like 65 plus and, you know,
gray haired man, like
860
00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:54,679
we've, we've done the work to,
to hone in on one.
861
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,239
And I think that that's something
that I've seen
862
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,559
in terms of like input versus
an output right now.
863
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:05,079
So everyone is super excited
about Andromeda and
864
00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:08,039
it being able to like serve to
persona. So personas
865
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:11,840
become like this hot topic,
right? And so the trap
866
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,280
that I've seen a lot of brands
fall into right now
867
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,599
is just like relying on AI
to like, and from an
868
00:44:17,679 --> 00:44:20,800
endpoint standpoint, just like
extract those. Great.
869
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,119
They're done. Found them because
that's better than
870
00:44:23,199 --> 00:44:26,559
I could do as a human. And what
I have found to be
871
00:44:27,079 --> 00:44:31,400
more effective is to focus
in on just one, like,
872
00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:34,400
and to focus in on the one that's
like already worked
873
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,400
for you. And to, because there's
likely you, you
874
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,920
have left so many potential angles
and messaging on
875
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,679
the table. So when it comes
to like my input
876
00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:48,719
with, when prompting and through
my research phases,
877
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,679
I've really stopped trying
to, and I'll have a
878
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,320
lot of brands like come in
and say like, okay,
879
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,440
I'm hiring you to like, help
me figure out who
880
00:44:55,519 --> 00:44:58,760
my personas are. And I really
have to come back to
881
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,239
them and say, and understand
too, like, this is
882
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,239
all great, but like, does your
budget even support
883
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,639
being able to effectively reach
seven different
884
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,159
personas, even though AI told
you that it's a good
885
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,880
idea too? We cannot even effectively
reach them
886
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,519
because we haven't effectively
reached one yet.
887
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,320
You can't effectively spend
on all those ads.
888
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,559
Oh, I automated a hundred
ads. You're not even
889
00:45:24,639 --> 00:45:26,199
spending enough to statistically
890
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,000
significantly find out if those
hundred ads work. I mean,
891
00:45:29,079 --> 00:45:31,039
it's so true. It's so true.
892
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,360
It's so true. And sacrificing
the name of your
893
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,239
brand or like not growing in parallel.
And that's like,
894
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,239
you know, a whole different conversation, but
just, yeah, from an input standpoint,
895
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,800
I have like really tried to dial it down
896
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,360
because I did find myself getting
lost in analysis,
897
00:45:50,559 --> 00:45:55,199
getting lost in just all,
all these kinds of
898
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,760
emotional mappings and trigger
analysis. And,
899
00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:01,760
and then I would go in prompt
with a LLM on a basic
900
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,599
standpoint and realize that when
it comes back to me
901
00:46:04,679 --> 00:46:07,119
for a persona, it's actually
telling me that
902
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,079
what I would consider are
just plain triggers.
903
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,519
That is a persona. I'm like,
so you have to
904
00:46:12,599 --> 00:46:15,760
even know what you're looking
for to begin with,
905
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,360
because you get in there and
someone can blindly
906
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,159
say, great, these are my personas.
An example might
907
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,639
be, um, I don't know, like a Catholic
908
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:30,159
mother, whatever for this thing.
And it's like, no,
909
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,239
just the fact that she's
Catholic, isn't her
910
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,320
persona. That's what I would
call an identity be
911
00:46:35,639 --> 00:46:39,239
overlay, which is just a thing
that she assumes
912
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,199
because of her religion, but
that can go across
913
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,679
many different personas.
So when you start
914
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,360
segregating this quickly,
it, you, you really
915
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,920
get lost. So from an input output
standpoint, I'm
916
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,239
just like focused on like dialing
it into like a very
917
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:01,000
narrow focus of, um, what I am
trying to accomplish
918
00:47:01,079 --> 00:47:04,800
or the goal of that ad, the persona
that I'm trying
919
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,360
to build and we can get to
the rest. Like, I
920
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,840
think that the trap is like, we
just think we have to
921
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,440
keep up with everyone else because
they're having
922
00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:15,639
answers for their personas. And,
and my, I actually
923
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,159
am on the opposite standpoint,
because like Matt
924
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,719
said earlier, they're like,
the reason we're in
925
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,760
this position is because most
strategists don't
926
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,800
even know why they believe what
they believe. Um,
927
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,000
and that's like really forced.
They'll come to
928
00:47:30,079 --> 00:47:33,320
prompt or to create an ad and
they're just really
929
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,800
going off of best practices
or what they've heard
930
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,719
on Twitter is working for someone
else, but it's
931
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,920
really through those lived experiences
that we're
932
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,000
able to like have that judgment.
So if you take that
933
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:47,760
away and the lived experience
becomes AI, then
934
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,920
like, yeah, we're, we're, we're
in trouble there.
935
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,400
So from a, from a prompting
standpoint, I, I,
936
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:59,119
I just, I just rather teams
take the long road.
937
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,519
And that's like my biggest
takeaway is, and what
938
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:04,239
I mean by the long road is
like, everyone throws
939
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,760
around the idea of deep context.
Like, what does
940
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,360
that mean? What is deep context?
Like, cause everyone
941
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,920
says, Oh yeah, I brought deep
context in and I'm
942
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,880
like, how it's been a month.
So you mean to tell me
943
00:48:16,119 --> 00:48:20,519
you brought a up or AI up to
speed on the past five
944
00:48:20,599 --> 00:48:23,280
years of your business and you
now know everything
945
00:48:23,599 --> 00:48:26,679
like in order to, what does
deep context mean?
946
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,480
How do you actually feed it
into your systems?
947
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,760
And that's like a whole nother
conversation we could
948
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:36,000
have. But my, my, um, big thing
is for brands to take
949
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:39,599
the long road when it comes to
like building out the
950
00:48:39,679 --> 00:48:43,719
systems that support like this
balance alongside of
951
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,639
your creative strategists
and to focus almost
952
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,880
on that first versus like the
output of your ads,
953
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,400
because that will come. And
if you can help
954
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,639
your strategists and your teams
build the, the,
955
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,559
the true deep systems, which
I can't go into all
956
00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:02,760
of that now, but like the true
architecture and deep
957
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:07,000
systems of your brand the right
way and play that
958
00:49:07,079 --> 00:49:10,119
longer road and allow them in
the process to just
959
00:49:10,199 --> 00:49:13,840
experiment and have fun, use
AI in your own life,
960
00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:18,559
not for like work all the time.
Then I think that
961
00:49:18,639 --> 00:49:21,639
we're going to be able to see,
um, just like more,
962
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,320
more like long-term efficient
ads, or those are the
963
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,199
brands that are going to be
around longer who
964
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,360
are taking that longer road.
So shortcut thinking
965
00:49:29,559 --> 00:49:33,239
kills. Absolutely. And it can
happen at an org, org
966
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,559
level too. I've seen it. I've
seen it happen every
967
00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:38,599
day. It's, it's scary. Yeah.
I think it's, I think,
968
00:49:38,679 --> 00:49:40,760
I think it's interesting because
I, I think there's
969
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,760
a whole bunch of stuff that was
talked about there.
970
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,719
And I'm, I, to me, the most
interesting stuff that
971
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,360
we got into was, and I think
the thematic pieces
972
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:54,079
of this are there's people are
trying to take a lot
973
00:49:54,159 --> 00:49:57,039
of shortcuts, right? That's
not necessarily a bad
974
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:01,000
thing. There can be shortcuts
to manual things that
975
00:50:01,079 --> 00:50:02,679
took, you know, that did take a long time
976
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,360
previously reading reviews, whatever,
right? Like that can be
977
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,760
efficient. But I think in
terms of actually
978
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,199
speaking long-term to the customer
and having a plan
979
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,519
and having a goal, as you
talked about, right?
980
00:50:14,599 --> 00:50:16,559
Which the goal is, I mean, we're
all in advertising,
981
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:18,280
like trying to make more money
for these people
982
00:50:18,519 --> 00:50:21,639
really is like what we're trying
to do is, you know,
983
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,360
having, having a vision of
what, what's the
984
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,559
reasoning behind doing this.
So I think is really
985
00:50:26,639 --> 00:50:29,440
fascinating. I think we've,
there's, and I think
986
00:50:29,519 --> 00:50:33,360
it's also not necessarily around
creative strategists.
987
00:50:33,519 --> 00:50:36,559
I think creative strategists
are in a hard place
988
00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:39,239
because they're given an edict
if they're within
989
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,119
a brand or, you know, they're
given an edict
990
00:50:41,199 --> 00:50:44,280
to like, go do this more efficiently
with AI.
991
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,639
And the strategist is like,
I actually want to
992
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:50,880
go slower. Yes. Right. Like,
and, and so I think
993
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,000
there's, there's a, um, a challenge
there as well.
994
00:50:54,079 --> 00:50:55,800
So I think those of you that
are listening to this
995
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,159
episode that are agency owners
or brand owners,
996
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,079
like, I think there's, there
is a really important
997
00:51:01,159 --> 00:51:04,239
conversation to be had with
your strategists
998
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,960
around what do you believe we
are doing long-term
999
00:51:09,039 --> 00:51:12,719
well and like in short-term
well, and then, you
1000
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,239
know, the inverse of that, what
do you think we're
1001
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,719
doing poorly? Like, are we
trying to push on
1002
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,400
efficiency too much? And I think
there's also this,
1003
00:51:20,159 --> 00:51:21,880
this idea that if you do
these things, like
1004
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,280
you talked about deep context
is a great example.
1005
00:51:24,639 --> 00:51:27,519
There's a, there, if you, if you do that
1006
00:51:27,599 --> 00:51:31,280
buzzword, then you're like ahead.
Right. Or, you know,
1007
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,199
it's like, if you, whatever
it might be, I mean,
1008
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,440
persona building is a huge
one too. That's like,
1009
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,000
if you do that, then you just
unlock. But the
1010
00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:42,679
reality is like, I think sometimes
I had a professor
1011
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,360
in college that always said,
there's two types
1012
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,480
of people. There's simple problem
complicators and
1013
00:51:47,559 --> 00:51:50,679
complicated problem simplifiers.
And I think
1014
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,559
that like, that's what it's,
it's simple problem
1015
00:51:53,679 --> 00:51:56,800
complication in a lot of ways.
In terms of like
1016
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,519
trying to develop seven personas
on a $10,000 a
1017
00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:02,559
month budget or whatever it
is, you know? And
1018
00:52:02,639 --> 00:52:06,280
so, and you know, it's hard because
you have these,
1019
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,079
these messages that are all
over the place of
1020
00:52:08,159 --> 00:52:11,159
like, you know, you look at
somebody like Zach,
1021
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:12,880
we did an episode talking
about a lot of their
1022
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,119
funnels and stuff. And like,
you know, they had,
1023
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,000
it was some, I mean, they're
spending tons and
1024
00:52:17,079 --> 00:52:18,880
tons of money, but they had
like 80 landing page
1025
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,800
tests live and they had,
you know, some 300
1026
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,000
variants live. And it was
about, it was about
1027
00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:27,920
volume. And then you kind of, you know,
1028
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:29,880
these smaller brands look at
this and say, well,
1029
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,920
it's about volume. And it's,
it's not though.
1030
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:36,679
It's like about, it's about
quality as it relates
1031
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,159
to volume and like, and the,
and what the inputs
1032
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,000
are that brought you there.
So anyway, I was just
1033
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:43,800
trying to summarize all of
the things that we
1034
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,039
talked about briefly. I don't
know if there's
1035
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:48,400
anything else you guys want
to mention, but
1036
00:52:48,679 --> 00:52:50,519
it's, it's an interesting
topic. And I think
1037
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,880
the greatest thing that we
can all do is go and
1038
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:54,840
have a larger conversation with,
with our creative
1039
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:56,960
strategists or with the people
that work with us
1040
00:52:57,039 --> 00:52:59,039
and set in that, in the, in
the creative realm and
1041
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:00,679
say like, look, we want to make this more
1042
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,159
efficient. We both have the same
goal. We want to sell more
1043
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,480
stuff and grow this baby. So
like, what else do we
1044
00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:09,679
need to do to be able to do
this? And what's your
1045
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,079
opinion on this? Because I
think there's, if you
1046
00:53:13,159 --> 00:53:16,119
don't, that, that widening
gap between what the
1047
00:53:16,199 --> 00:53:18,039
creative strategist wants,
which is to slow down
1048
00:53:18,119 --> 00:53:20,000
and what you want, which is
efficiency as an owner
1049
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:23,079
or an agency owner is going
to become more
1050
00:53:23,159 --> 00:53:24,840
disparate. And it's not ultimately
going to serve
1051
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,559
the end consumer. Yeah. I think
it's a leadership
1052
00:53:27,639 --> 00:53:29,840
conversation. I think that's
what, for me, I was
1053
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:31,679
going to say that even before
you mentioned it,
1054
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:33,800
but it's true. It's the leadership
conversation,
1055
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,559
because if you're in, if you
are an agency owner,
1056
00:53:38,039 --> 00:53:40,719
like you want to, like, why
is somebody going to
1057
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,400
stay with you? It's not because
you were more
1058
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,719
efficient. It was because you
got them performance,
1059
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:49,159
right? If you're a brand owner,
what do you want
1060
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,719
your people to do? Do you want
them to make more
1061
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:53,360
ads or do you want them to make
ads that are going
1062
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,280
to win? Right. And so I think
the problem is, is that
1063
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,079
when you are focused on volume,
then you are
1064
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:03,480
building systems to do more of the
same. It's easier to do
1065
00:54:03,559 --> 00:54:06,519
that. It's easier to do similar
stuff. You've got
1066
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:09,559
the people in place, just do more.
You have the SOPs in
1067
00:54:09,639 --> 00:54:13,360
place, just do more of that
thing. But sometimes
1068
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,280
the best ads are going to take
10 X the time. And
1069
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,920
you don't have, if you're not
building in Slack to
1070
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,639
have moments where somebody
can take 10 X the time
1071
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,880
and take the bet that it
could even work, it
1072
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,800
could even fail, but like, you've
got to be able to do
1073
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,480
that and allow them to do that.
Like, but if you're
1074
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:35,159
just focused on, did we get 20
ads out every single
1075
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:38,199
week? Then, you know, the
problem is, is that
1076
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,239
you're going to say, well,
we, we doing, we got
1077
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,760
the 20 ads out, but now we're
not, we're not, we're
1078
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:44,960
not winning. It's like, yeah,
because you're doing
1079
00:54:45,039 --> 00:54:46,920
20 of the same ads every single
week because they
1080
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,199
are, that's what their success
in their role is.
1081
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,039
And I think that oftentimes,
like, did we ever
1082
00:54:53,119 --> 00:54:55,960
have like an efficiency problem?
Like, I don't think
1083
00:54:56,159 --> 00:54:59,159
we had, I don't think oftentimes
bandwidth was the
1084
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,519
problem. I think we're saying
that. I think people,
1085
00:55:02,599 --> 00:55:04,559
leaders are saying that, but
I'm like, I don't
1086
00:55:04,639 --> 00:55:07,119
think that was the problem five
years ago. I think
1087
00:55:07,199 --> 00:55:09,800
now you just want to stuff
more clients into one
1088
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,400
career of challenges. That's
a problem. But like,
1089
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,599
I don't think that the efficiency
was the problem.
1090
00:55:16,679 --> 00:55:19,679
I think performance has always
been the main issue.
1091
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:23,480
And so I think like, if you
can use AI to help you
1092
00:55:23,559 --> 00:55:26,440
with performance, amazing. But
you also have to be
1093
00:55:26,519 --> 00:55:31,880
ready as a leader to realize
that it's not always
1094
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,719
about efficiencies. It is about
ultimately performance
1095
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,920
and you have to be okay. And
building a space
1096
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:44,079
where people can really take shots
on goal that are out
1097
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:46,440
there that are different. And
that's going to look
1098
00:55:46,639 --> 00:55:50,800
different than how things are
set up. Now, again,
1099
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,440
it's all about breaking rules.
Every brand that
1100
00:55:54,519 --> 00:55:57,519
stands out, they break rules.
That's what great
1101
00:55:57,599 --> 00:55:59,920
advertising is all about.
Right. And so it's
1102
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,679
like, yes, do the things that
work and like, like, not
1103
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,480
trends, but like, if creator
content works, like
1104
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:08,119
do creator content, like don't
not do the basics,
1105
00:56:08,199 --> 00:56:10,280
right, that is working in the
current moment, but you
1106
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,800
have to have these moonshots. And
then, you know, I think
1107
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,559
just like, as a leader, you've
got to be able to
1108
00:56:16,639 --> 00:56:21,280
like, open up that capacity
for your people. But I
1109
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,079
don't think it's ever been an
efficiency problem.
1110
00:56:23,159 --> 00:56:25,400
And I think leaders just want
it to be. And they're
1111
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,400
saying that, but I think
that's just because
1112
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:29,559
they're just looking after their
margins. And it's
1113
00:56:29,639 --> 00:56:31,800
like, no, you got to break your
margins, you know,
1114
00:56:32,079 --> 00:56:35,760
like, like, break your margins
today so that you can
1115
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,000
have like crazy performance
later. Like, that's
1116
00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:40,360
how I'm thinking. I'm like, if
I need to spend extra
1117
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,800
thousands of dollars to make
this video idea
1118
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,599
work, great, because if it
works, my client's
1119
00:56:45,679 --> 00:56:47,719
going to stay with me for
like, years to come,
1120
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,679
right? Like, that's worth the
$2,000 if they're
1121
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,639
going to continue to play my
retainer later on.
1122
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,239
Like, if something is like not
working, oh, but I
1123
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:59,039
saved my my margin. It's like,
what? So you got
1124
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:02,719
to be able to like, really think
about performance.
1125
00:57:03,039 --> 00:57:05,679
That's the biggest thing.
You know, good, good
1126
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,280
wrap up. I mean, look, this
thing, this episode is
1127
00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:11,760
this episode is packed of information.
So we're
1128
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,800
just gonna might even have to
split this into two.
1129
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:16,639
I mean, it's got a lot of stuff
that I think is
1130
00:57:16,719 --> 00:57:18,519
really important to get into.
And I think it is
1131
00:57:18,599 --> 00:57:20,920
a fairly relevant conversation and
1132
00:57:21,159 --> 00:57:23,800
identifies a lot of problems
and hopefully can give,
1133
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,880
you know, some some some
ammunition to good
1134
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,079
creatives among us to to say,
like, hey, look what
1135
00:57:30,159 --> 00:57:32,239
they said here, right? Like,
slow down, right?
1136
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,519
Like, this is what's been said
on this podcast,
1137
00:57:34,599 --> 00:57:36,840
because I think a lot of it is like, what
1138
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,320
I did to make 3 million ads
by, you know, a
1139
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,760
week ago or whatever. Like,
it's so much. So
1140
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:44,760
do you remember the Michigan
method, Brad? I do.
1141
00:57:45,719 --> 00:57:50,119
Oh, man, I know. I'm really
old. The Michigan
1142
00:57:50,199 --> 00:57:56,039
method was when you had a bid,
and you then put,
1143
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,280
it was the only type of
manual bidding. It
1144
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,679
was like, and you would basically
do a bid at
1145
00:58:01,239 --> 00:58:03,320
a dollar amount and you take the same ad
1146
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,000
and then you do if the CPA
was $30, you do,
1147
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:10,000
you do $20 below and $20 above
and the same ad
1148
00:58:10,079 --> 00:58:13,639
in each ad set. So it'd be
like $31, $32, $33.
1149
00:58:14,639 --> 00:58:17,000
It was and and then one of
them would get spend
1150
00:58:17,079 --> 00:58:19,159
and they'd vary like depending
on what the bid was
1151
00:58:19,239 --> 00:58:22,920
that day, you were just trying to play the
auction. So that still works. I think
1152
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,480
there you go. Hey, if you
guys want to start a
1153
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:30,599
drop shipping company, let me
know. That's that's
1154
00:58:30,679 --> 00:58:32,079
but thank you everybody for joining us.
1155
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,000
Appreciate it. Thanks for being
here. And as always,
1156
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:36,599
please leave us a review. And if you have
1157
00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:38,400
questions, we'd love to hear
from you. Andrew at
1158
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:39,960
foxwelldigital.com.
1159
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,480
The only way that we grow
this podcast is by
1160
00:58:47,559 --> 00:58:49,360
you sharing it with your
friends. Honestly,
1161
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:50,800
like reviews kind of don't really mean
1162
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:52,880
anything too much anymore. They're
really meaningful,
1163
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,719
but they don't do a lot for the growth of
1164
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,679
the podcast. And so sharing
YouTube links,
1165
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,239
sharing Spotify links, sharing
Apple, whatever we
1166
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,760
call it under the podcast app.
Now, anything you
1167
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,719
can share, the better we're going to be.
1168
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,599
Guys, anything else you want
to say on this?
1169
00:59:08,679 --> 00:59:11,039
Yeah, please go check us out
on YouTube, rack up
1170
00:59:11,119 --> 00:59:13,039
those views for us. We'd love
to see it. And then
1171
00:59:13,119 --> 00:59:14,760
subscribe. Make sure to subscribe
on YouTube
1172
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:16,880
as well. And I relentlessly
refresh the YouTube
1173
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:18,760
comments because it dictates
my mental health for
1174
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:20,599
the day. So please say something
nice about all of us.
1175
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:24,559
Thank you, everyone. Thanks for
listening. Honestly.