Stop Making More Ads — Fix THIS Instead

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Landing pages offers to a degree can like
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meet different people
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where they're at as well,
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different points of AOV. It's like you
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might have people who are
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willing to buy a one-time
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subscription. You might have people who
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don't want to buy a one-time
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subscription, but they'll
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spend three times as much as much on the
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first order because they'll
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buy three months in advance.
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It's like there's these varying people
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are coming in at different
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entry points and having your,
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I guess your tornado, your marketing set
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up in a way where you can meet those
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people where they're
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at. That's what I'm thinking about. I can
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get more specific
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examples, but that's kind of the
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general sense of how I'm looking at this
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is like, can you arm
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Meta with the creative,
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the landing pages and the offers and
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allow them to kind of dictate when to
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show it to the right
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person at the right time? They're running
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ads about testosterone and
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tying it to their main product.
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They're running ads about weight loss and
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tying it to their main
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product. They're running ads about
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prebiotics and probiotics and like all of
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this, like, you know, gut
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health stuff and tying it to
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their main product. They built a brand
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and a product and Grunz
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built a brand and a product
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where they can literally come and talk
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about it in 50 different ways and
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convince you to buy the
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product because it solves that problem.
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The time to actually test
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and try to find the winning
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variance is I want to test a five reasons
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why against this five
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reasons why I want to change
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this headline on the five reasons why or
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whatever. I don't know. Joked with Brad
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to like not talk about
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it on the podcast too much because it was
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like a big piece of like what was
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allowing us to scale in
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like February, March. Not that we're
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trying not to give value, but
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Brad really wanted to give the
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sauce. I was like, let's hold a minute.
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And of course, now you go
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and you scroll Twitter and
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Chad from Grunz is talking about it and
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other people are talking
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about it. So that's a big thing.
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I mean, like, candidly, like for Holo,
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we've been doing funnel
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congruency from the very beginning.
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And now let's take a listen to the
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Scalability School podcast.
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Okay. Welcome to another episode of the
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Scalability School podcast. We are so
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jacked. Nobody else is
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here. No guests. It's just us. It's just
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the guys just shooting the breeze,
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talking about landing
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pages, marketing tornadoes, and the
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return of intentionality.
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We're making shakes. We got a
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lot of stuff going. I was just listening
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to the history of Coca-Cola.
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Okay. On the acquired podcast
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and which is a four and a half hour
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episode above a podcast. Okay. It's the
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history of Coca-Cola.
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Anyway, so I'm 20 minutes in and here's a
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funny thing that's
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noticed. So when they started the
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Coca-Cola and they started selling it in
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soda fountains, this is in
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the early, this is in the
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late 1890s. They had the product itself
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had four times the amount of
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caffeine and sugar that the,
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that current day Coca-Cola does. And it
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had fucking cocaine in it.
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So no wonder they were selling
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this thing. Everybody felt incredible
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drinking this. I just
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thought that was insane. Yeah. So
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people would come in. Yeah. So that's
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like 200 grams. That's
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like a, that's like a proper,
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that's like a proper energy drink. Yeah.
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They, they said like, it's
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like, it's like four local
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before four local. Right. Like, yeah, no
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shit. And so I was like,
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no wonder it felt, everybody
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felt incredible drinking this. So that,
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you know, if you want to
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start a successful company,
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put drugs in it. I mean, it was like
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people, energy drinks are literally
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selling like addictive,
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addictive substances, you know? And it's
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like, look, I'm like,
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I'm, I drink my two, 200,
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250 milligrams a day. So I'm not, I'm not
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judging. I'm just
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saying it's like, it's not a,
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not a bad business model to sell things
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that are addictive, you know?
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Oh no, it's, it's not. Yeah. Yeah. It
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was, I was amazing. The
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amount of people that in,
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in Europe at our Foxville founders,
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Lisbon event that were,
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that were using either vape
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pens or Zinn like a lot to, so here, like
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being in California,
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like if you touch alcohol,
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people are like, you drink still. And
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it's like, it's so rare,
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you know? And like, obviously
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people could smoke pot all day. Like I
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saw a guy just literally
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asleep on the side of the
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road the other day. Like not a, not like
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a, not like somebody
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that had been up all night.
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Like, I think this guy had just like
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smoked and needed a nap.
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Um, he, he had, he had a
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white sweater wrapped around his
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shoulders is what I'm
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saying. Like a light, like he,
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he probably doesn't, he probably,
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probably calls the sweater
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a wrap. Sure. Do you know
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what I mean? It was an Armani sweater.
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Yeah. Yeah. It was an
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Armani sweater. Yeah. The guy
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was in a, the guy was in a Bentley. So it
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was, uh, speaking of
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pouches, Zach, when's,
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when's Marsman dropping the, uh, the
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pouches? Testosterone.
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That's the, that's the form
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factor. The test boosting pouches. Yeah.
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I see that. Throw a
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little nicotine in there.
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Get a little wild. Oh my gosh. Yeah. All
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right. Look, I tell you
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that we, we actually do have
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a podcast today. Let's talk about real
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shit. That's good. And, um,
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there's a lot of interesting
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things to talk about, uh, that Brad put
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together and Zach and I
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don't understand any of it. So
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we're flying blind into this. Actually,
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Zach understands that I
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don't. So let's talk about
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the, what we're getting into. So 2025 was
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all about creative
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diversity and volume. Everybody's
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into that game, right? So 2026, the
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question isn't, how do I
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make more? It's what is all this
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volume pointing at? Right. And I think
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this episode is basically a shift towards
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intentionality and part of
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the funnel that everyone ignored, the
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landing page. Brad, do you
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care to take it from there?
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Yeah. So I'll kind of set the stage with
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why this was interesting to me
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this, this week, uh, Twitter,
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this comes out a little bit after, so,
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uh, it's not gonna be
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super relevant in the immediate
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zeitgeist, but there was a conversation
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on Twitter about, uh,
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creative volume and the overwhelming
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sentiment that I was feeling is that
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people tried the volume game. It didn't
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work in the way that
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they thought it would, or it's not
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working as well as it was historically,
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or they're just like kind
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of getting burnt out on trying to make
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hundreds of ads a week or
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whatever it is. And there's some
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counterpoint saying is like, well, you
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don't have to do that. You should just
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make, make better ads,
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which I think is, uh, you know, that we
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can live in this like
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subjective, uh, opinion of like,
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okay, well, which one is better? Um, and
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obviously if you can
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make more of a good thing,
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you should probably make more of a good
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thing. But I think
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overwhelmingly, I've just seen people
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are kind of like frustrated with this
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idea of always trying to,
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to make more. And so what I
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wanted to open up discussion around was
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kind of like, how, what,
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what else can you do outside of
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creative to try and improve things? And
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where have we been seeing wins in the
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accounts that, that,
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um, that we see, uh, landing pages is a
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big one, uh, in general.
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And I have some opinions about
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marketing tornadoes, which I feel like
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I've mentioned this, maybe it's in, I
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don't know if I'm saying
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these on internal calls or what, but I
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said the word marketing tornado about
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8,000 times in the last two weeks.
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Shireen, um, uh, DTC love DTC, Twitter
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love Shireen. Uh, she, she
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was actually the like original
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person that, uh, that coined the
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marketing tornado, but
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I'm just thinking more about
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landing pages, intentionality and, and
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what else you can do outside of the ad
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creative land to improve
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your marketing stack. So that's where I'm
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at. Zach, I don't know
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how you, you guys are,
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you guys are probably pumping out a ton
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of volume of ads and landing pages. So
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like, I know you guys
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are, you guys are already bought into the
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intentionality thing, but yeah, I don't,
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you guys are still pumping out a ton of
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volume. We're so Mars is in an
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interesting spot where we
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have like too many ads to launch, which
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is like a weird spot to be in where we
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don't want to offset
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our testing budget with our business as
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usual budget to lower overall
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performance. So we're like,
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the team is like, has a massive backlog
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of just ads and then the
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head of growth and head of pay
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just kind of get to pick what they have
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the most, you know, intuition
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of, of what could work, which
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is, you never know if that's true or not.
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Right. But, um, so I would
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say even us like hit a point
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where like my head of growth of Mars
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reveal today was like, yo, we
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got to stop signing creative
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agencies. Like we have too many creative
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agencies, uh, specifically
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for meta ads. So we're going to
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probably like, you know, not saying that
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we're going to go chop a
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bunch of agencies, but we're
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probably going to like slim that out,
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figure out who's got the most
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scale and then maybe probably
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divest into more creative for other
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channels. So like that's where
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Mars is at now. I'd say hollow
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is definitely still in the camp of like,
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just trying to make the
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best ads possible. I mean,
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we're out of like our peak season. So
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it's like how much, how many
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compression socks can we sell
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and how can we, you know, approach this a
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different way? So
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anyways, I would agree with
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the sentiment that intentionality is like
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the thing. And we definitely over
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indexed. Like I would
295
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say if we look back like two, two months
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ago, three months ago, we were over
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indexing in volume big
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time and we had to slow down and be like,
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okay, what the hell are we
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doing here? And that's kind of
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why we signed so many creative agencies.
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Cause we were like, we just
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want net new, really interesting
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ideas to add to the mix. Like outside of
305
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just our own team, kind
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of like hammering the same
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concepts. So what are some ways, Brad, in
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your opinion or Zach,
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that you would see marketing
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tornadoes, which is essentially assuming
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the person, same person
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sees you 15 ways and the job is
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consistency of message within that. Like
314
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what are other ways that you
315
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:08,840
can do this? I mean, obviously
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metas, you can do this with meta ads to a
317
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degree with different types of ads
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talking about the same
319
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pain points or whatever else, but what
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are other ways instead of just looking at
321
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like the linear journal
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or the linear journey of, of, of add to
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funnel or to land or whatever.
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Yeah. So I think it, you can actually
325
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:26,720
think about this from an account
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structure perspective and we
327
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don't have to spend too much time on this
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cause I don't, I don't
329
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think that's really the point of
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the conversation. But even if you think
331
00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:33,799
about this from like an
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account structure perspective,
333
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if you go back far enough, it's like,
334
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okay, you're running, like
335
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I'm talking 2017 far enough.
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It's like, you're running traffic
337
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campaigns. You're trying to retarget
338
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those people intentionally.
339
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:44,919
It's like, you've tried to architect the
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perfect funnel from
341
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,039
creative and targeting
342
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all the way from the top through
343
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conversion. And so
344
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,039
obviously over time, meta has said,
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go broad, give us the keys, let us figure
346
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it out. And I think people
347
00:09:56,759 --> 00:09:57,960
have largely shifted that
348
00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,320
direction. Obviously people still have
349
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degrees of opinion on how
350
00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,000
much you should let meta do that.
351
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But from an account structure
352
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,360
perspective, when I think about this from
353
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like the tornado philosophy
354
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,000
is you want to have ads, ads in
355
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particular that speak to people at
356
00:10:10,799 --> 00:10:12,960
different parts of their buying
357
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journey. I think people are mostly bought
358
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:15,759
into that. I think people realize, Hey,
359
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you might have a video.
360
00:10:17,039 --> 00:10:19,360
I think Mars posted a great founder video
361
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today. It was like a really nice,
362
00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:21,919
nice done video. I saw you post on
363
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Instagram. A really nicely
364
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:24,720
well done videos. Like that's
365
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,480
going to speak to a certain person. Some
366
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:27,120
of this whitelisting
367
00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:28,080
influencer stuff is going to speak
368
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:29,919
to a certain person. But on top of that,
369
00:10:29,919 --> 00:10:31,120
it's like, maybe you need to have offer
370
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:31,679
ads. Like you want to
371
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have ads that reach people at different
372
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points in their, their
373
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,039
awareness journey. I think people are
374
00:10:35,039 --> 00:10:36,720
mostly bought into that, or I think it
375
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:37,759
starts to deviate. Maybe this
376
00:10:37,759 --> 00:10:38,720
is where it starts to answer
377
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:43,320
your question. Landing pages offers to a
378
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degree can like meet
379
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different people where they're at as
380
00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:47,000
well. Different points of AOV. It's like,
381
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you might have people who
382
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are willing to buy a one-time
383
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subscription. You might have people who
384
00:10:50,159 --> 00:10:51,000
don't want to buy a one-time
385
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subscription, but they'll spend
386
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,320
three times as much as much on the first
387
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,000
order because they'll buy
388
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:54,840
three months in advance.
389
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It's like, there's, there's these varying
390
00:10:57,039 --> 00:10:58,159
people are coming in at
391
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different entry points and having
392
00:10:59,919 --> 00:11:01,960
your, your, I guess your tornado, your
393
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marketing set up in a way
394
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:03,759
where you can meet those people
395
00:11:03,799 --> 00:11:05,360
where they're at is this is, that's what
396
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:06,159
I'm thinking about. I can
397
00:11:06,159 --> 00:11:07,159
give more specific examples.
398
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,799
Like that's kind of the, the general
399
00:11:08,919 --> 00:11:10,399
sense of how I'm looking at this is like,
400
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,679
can you arm meta with
401
00:11:12,879 --> 00:11:14,399
the creative, the landing pages and the
402
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,000
offers and allow them to kind
403
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,360
of dictate when to show it to
404
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,000
the right person at the right time? Cause
405
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:19,799
that's kind of the whole point of
406
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,159
Andromeda, right? Is
407
00:11:21,759 --> 00:11:24,559
meta spends billions of dollars on GPUs.
408
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:25,480
That's what they want you
409
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:26,679
to do. Yeah. It's like they,
410
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,000
they're trying to do personalization at
411
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,519
scale because they want to deliver you
412
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:30,679
the best ad at the best
413
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,080
point in time when you're ready to make
414
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:33,240
the most, when you're ready
415
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:34,080
to make a purchase decision.
416
00:11:34,279 --> 00:11:36,159
Cause then morons like us will keep
417
00:11:36,159 --> 00:11:37,919
giving Zuck money. Let me,
418
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,159
let me ask a question. I think
419
00:11:39,159 --> 00:11:40,679
it's really interesting that we've, I've
420
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:41,919
been kind of posing to the
421
00:11:41,919 --> 00:11:43,840
team, which is how do you set
422
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,600
targets of performance based on the type
423
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,080
of creative or funnel that you
424
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:49,159
are making the assumption of?
425
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,639
So are you going to lower the CPA target
426
00:11:51,639 --> 00:11:52,639
or rise target? If you
427
00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:53,919
think it's a top of funnel ad,
428
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,559
or are you going to basically assume all
429
00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,000
of it has to be treated the same way?
430
00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,399
Like I think most people
431
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,240
aren't thinking that deep on this and
432
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,120
they're kind of like, maybe they're
433
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,159
making top of funnel ads,
434
00:12:04,159 --> 00:12:05,240
but then they're like, Oh, I killed it
435
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,000
performance or shit. It's like, well,
436
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:07,960
what was the percentage
437
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:09,600
of new visitor? What was, you know? So
438
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:10,519
how are you thinking about
439
00:12:10,519 --> 00:12:12,399
that? I tend to be a little bit
440
00:12:12,399 --> 00:12:14,960
more in the camp of allowing meta to
441
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,440
dictate spend between ads. Um, I think
442
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:18,360
what that can mean in the
443
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,879
short term is that maybe they're wrong on
444
00:12:20,879 --> 00:12:22,919
a couple of like, here's an
445
00:12:22,919 --> 00:12:24,080
example. Like you launch an ad,
446
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:25,480
it has an insane click the rate. It
447
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,200
gobbles up a bunch of spend two days
448
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:27,840
later, it's going to stop
449
00:12:27,879 --> 00:12:29,679
spending against that. If you are like,
450
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,240
if you are somebody who has,
451
00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:32,399
you know, substantially more
452
00:12:32,799 --> 00:12:34,240
hands on keyboard wants to be, have full
453
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:35,919
control over exactly what meta is doing,
454
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:37,399
you probably would have paused it a day
455
00:12:37,399 --> 00:12:38,559
earlier than maybe I would
456
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,080
have had. But what I think
457
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,200
that allows me to do is get these other
458
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,320
things that pick up and over time, I
459
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:45,080
think you just notice
460
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,799
a shift in how those things, in how ads
461
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,000
landing pages deliver over
462
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,080
time. And so I think that's,
463
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,120
that's the value of the tornado as well
464
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,240
as if you have these things live, when
465
00:12:54,639 --> 00:12:55,720
seasonality changes,
466
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:56,799
and all of a sudden an ad that wasn't
467
00:12:56,799 --> 00:12:57,879
relevant two weeks ago, but
468
00:12:57,879 --> 00:12:59,080
now it's hot as balls outside
469
00:12:59,080 --> 00:12:59,840
and ever, you know, it's like, it's
470
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,799
relevant again, that
471
00:13:00,799 --> 00:13:02,200
picks back up and spend like,
472
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,000
am I setting different targets? I think
473
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,000
at this point, no, not
474
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,399
yet. I think to your point,
475
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:07,600
like where it starts to get tricky is
476
00:13:07,799 --> 00:13:10,039
when you're at an insane level of scale
477
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:11,000
where it's like meta
478
00:13:12,039 --> 00:13:14,200
maybe isn't as incremental and isn't
479
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,000
making good decisions
480
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,080
because it doesn't know that your
481
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:18,519
influencer whitelisted ad is more
482
00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:20,559
incremental than the branded ad that's
483
00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:21,320
whatever right next to it,
484
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,159
but that ROAS looks better. Um, that's
485
00:13:23,159 --> 00:13:23,600
where it starts to get
486
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:24,399
tricky. I don't have a great
487
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:25,960
answer for you, but I think it's a good
488
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:26,799
thing to be thinking about.
489
00:13:26,799 --> 00:13:27,720
Yeah. I mean, I think it's,
490
00:13:27,879 --> 00:13:30,080
I think to your point, Zach, and we were
491
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:30,759
having a discussion in the
492
00:13:30,759 --> 00:13:31,600
founders community the other
493
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,600
day with a couple of our bigger spenders.
494
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,200
And I think if you have the scale, I
495
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:36,000
think you absolutely
496
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,720
need to be setting different targets for
497
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,279
these things because you,
498
00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:41,000
you know, you have to look,
499
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,519
there has to be benchmark and looking at
500
00:13:42,519 --> 00:13:43,919
an account wide, especially
501
00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:45,159
if you have a product mix,
502
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:47,399
it's not going to be useful to judge them
503
00:13:47,399 --> 00:13:49,000
all the same. I think
504
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,360
it's, it's very similar to
505
00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:52,639
why you have different funnels based on
506
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,080
the product types. Like
507
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:55,159
it's, you know, it's like
508
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,080
there's going to be a funnel, you know,
509
00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:58,399
for, for this product,
510
00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:00,320
that product A, B, C, D, F,
511
00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:01,720
as you get more scale, and that's a way
512
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:02,200
that you're going to be
513
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,399
able to squeeze more out of it.
514
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,679
But I think, so, so the answer is yes.
515
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:06,720
And I think judging it based
516
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,279
on yes, you know, new customer,
517
00:14:09,279 --> 00:14:10,639
whatever you want to look at, whatever
518
00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:11,320
the metrics are that are
519
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:12,120
important, that are really
520
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:13,080
important in the business. I think it's
521
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:13,720
important to start to
522
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,200
differentiate those as you get more
523
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,960
sophisticated. To me, though, when you
524
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:19,519
start to look at that type
525
00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:22,399
of thing is, I'm going to say
526
00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:24,360
when you're sort of in the like hundred
527
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,519
thousand a month range and
528
00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:27,919
spend on meta. I don't know how
529
00:14:27,919 --> 00:14:29,519
you guys feel about that number, but I
530
00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:30,600
got, there was a comment
531
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,200
somebody sent me and they were like,
532
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:33,200
can you guys talk about when you're
533
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,679
talking about big or small?
534
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:36,200
And so that's how I'm trying to
535
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,879
define that. I think you should certainly
536
00:14:37,879 --> 00:14:38,720
see opportunity with
537
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,159
certain ones. If you're doing
538
00:14:40,159 --> 00:14:42,840
75k a month and spend, some of the
539
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,000
smaller brands are listening to this,
540
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:44,679
right? Like, I think you
541
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,120
could start to do some splits like that
542
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:46,639
if there's different
543
00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:48,279
products. But I think as you,
544
00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:50,000
as you incrementally scale, that's one of
545
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:50,679
the things that you
546
00:14:50,679 --> 00:14:51,759
want to be watching is yes,
547
00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:53,480
having those things be separate because
548
00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:54,360
they're not all created
549
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:55,799
equal, especially if you have
550
00:14:55,799 --> 00:14:57,639
different bundles and you know, that have
551
00:14:57,639 --> 00:14:58,720
higher margin, like you're
552
00:14:58,720 --> 00:14:59,559
going to want to optimize for
553
00:14:59,559 --> 00:15:00,360
that. And you're going to want to think
554
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:01,519
about that a little bit differently in
555
00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:02,320
terms of measurement
556
00:15:02,639 --> 00:15:04,120
and going through versus just like sort
557
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,320
of boiling it down. Now, to your point,
558
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:06,960
Brad, I think you can
559
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:08,960
still have all of these ads in the same,
560
00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:10,759
they can still be running together,
561
00:15:10,759 --> 00:15:12,080
letting meta sort of do the
562
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,120
combinations it needs to. Right. But I
563
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,080
think that in terms of measuring it,
564
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:17,919
looking at only one thing
565
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:19,879
in terms of like CPA or whatever the
566
00:15:20,559 --> 00:15:22,840
metrics are across all of them, isn't
567
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:23,600
going to be useful as
568
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:24,960
you go forward. I think you have to do a
569
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:25,960
little bit of delineation
570
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:26,720
between. Yeah. I don't know,
571
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,360
Zach, is that what you, is that what do
572
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:29,320
you think? Is it the reason
573
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:29,960
why you asked me the question?
574
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,480
Yeah, I mean, I'm asking the question
575
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:32,440
because I think it's, it's
576
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:33,879
interesting. I mean, I think that
577
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,240
that's one thing that I've just been kind
578
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:37,720
of, I wouldn't say struggling with, but
579
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:38,600
thinking about a lot
580
00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:41,840
because if we're hitting for, you know,
581
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,840
for, um, for Marsman or hollow, like our
582
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,519
NC Ross or NCPA target,
583
00:15:47,799 --> 00:15:49,639
Mars is easier because it's basically
584
00:15:49,639 --> 00:15:52,279
NCPA. But if we're
585
00:15:52,279 --> 00:15:54,399
hitting our CPA, our CPA target,
586
00:15:54,919 --> 00:15:56,519
do I really give a shit what's happening
587
00:15:56,559 --> 00:15:57,440
inside the ad account?
588
00:15:57,799 --> 00:15:59,480
Right. Do I really care as long
589
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,639
as performance is stable and it's like
590
00:16:01,639 --> 00:16:03,039
doing, doing its thing.
591
00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:05,200
Right. So that, that's the one
592
00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:07,840
piece that I'm kind of like a little
593
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,039
indifferent about. If, if
594
00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:10,600
your business is simpler, I think
595
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,799
it's easier to kind of let it play itself
596
00:16:12,799 --> 00:16:13,840
out. If it's more
597
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,879
complicated to your point, uh, even
598
00:16:15,879 --> 00:16:17,080
like hollow, for example, like we have
599
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:17,759
different funnels with
600
00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:19,559
different AOVs, whatever, like we
601
00:16:19,559 --> 00:16:21,120
have to obviously like keep an eye on
602
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,559
that, but it's more about like
603
00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:23,600
the funnel stage that I think
604
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,480
is like the, the next added layer of
605
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,799
like, do I actually, you
606
00:16:27,799 --> 00:16:29,440
know, step in and get in, in
607
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,720
meta's way because this ad is spending a
608
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,360
shit ton and it's like a static ad.
609
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:34,200
That's like a discount
610
00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:38,000
ad or because like CPA looks really good
611
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,200
or maybe it's average
612
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,600
for that ad that I know
613
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:41,879
should be bottom of funnel. Should I kill
614
00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:43,279
that? Because if it's
615
00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:44,399
a bottom of funnel ad,
616
00:16:44,399 --> 00:16:46,159
that's like an offer edge, it should have
617
00:16:46,159 --> 00:16:47,080
a higher ROAS to
618
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:48,639
offset the lower ROAS top of
619
00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:50,600
funnel ad. So it's like, how much do you
620
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:51,440
want to play God in that
621
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:52,519
situation? I think is like
622
00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:55,120
a really interesting, like, yeah, I think
623
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:56,000
thing to mess around with.
624
00:16:56,559 --> 00:16:58,559
One is, I mean, one is, I think that
625
00:16:58,559 --> 00:16:59,480
it's, it's very hard to
626
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,679
accept the meta of today versus
627
00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:03,600
meta that we were all raised on, which is
628
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:04,880
like, we would be doing
629
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,160
that. Right. So that's one.
630
00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:10,079
I think that, you know, over time, you
631
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:11,039
know, metas would like to
632
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:11,839
say, look, we're going to,
633
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,880
we're going to definitely only show that,
634
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:14,960
you know, here and there, but
635
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,519
like meta, we sort of all know
636
00:17:16,519 --> 00:17:18,200
that if there's a discount ad in the
637
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,960
account and it's got a ripping CPA,
638
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:20,839
they're going to show that
639
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:22,920
more. Like it's true. Like they're,
640
00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:24,200
because it's going to optimize for
641
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:25,200
results and that's what you try,
642
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:26,640
that's what you say your goal is. Right.
643
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:27,200
So they're going to,
644
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,319
that's going to be shown more.
645
00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:29,880
So I think that there are absolutely
646
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,599
instances where with, especially with
647
00:17:31,599 --> 00:17:32,720
discount ads or with
648
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,759
something that's a prime promotion, or,
649
00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:36,000
you know, you only want to
650
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,160
show it to people that are,
651
00:17:37,279 --> 00:17:39,000
you know, haven't purchased in 60 days or
652
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,640
whatever. The thing is, like, I think
653
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:41,640
it's okay to separate
654
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,039
those things out. Like, even if they
655
00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:45,000
don't, if they're not going
656
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,279
to hold the incremental scale
657
00:17:46,279 --> 00:17:47,799
and it's not to throw it all together,
658
00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:49,599
let meta decide. I do think
659
00:17:49,599 --> 00:17:50,759
that if it's something that's
660
00:17:50,759 --> 00:17:52,319
going to degrade the overall account,
661
00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:54,160
absolutely. The separation of those is
662
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:55,319
still a valid tactic.
663
00:17:55,519 --> 00:17:57,799
That's why that still exists. Right.
664
00:17:57,839 --> 00:17:58,799
Like, I don't know, Brad,
665
00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:00,799
do you think that's wrong or
666
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,079
what's your opinion? Not to be the cost
667
00:18:04,079 --> 00:18:05,680
control guy here, but like,
668
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:06,599
that's where cost controls
669
00:18:06,599 --> 00:18:08,039
are interesting. If nothing else is
670
00:18:08,039 --> 00:18:10,039
because like, if you, let's say, let's
671
00:18:10,039 --> 00:18:10,680
say you do have them in
672
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,119
separate campaigns, like you've got your,
673
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:13,279
your normal kind of
674
00:18:13,319 --> 00:18:15,160
evergreen ads, and then you launch
675
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,160
a separate campaign for a promo and
676
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:18,160
you're running both of those things on
677
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:19,720
cost caps. To your point,
678
00:18:20,039 --> 00:18:22,119
what you might see is maybe the evergreen
679
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:23,119
starts to throttle down and
680
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:24,359
spend because all of a sudden
681
00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:25,960
the attention that would otherwise go to
682
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,759
that campaign is being
683
00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:29,680
absorbed by the promo campaign.
684
00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:31,440
And that's what, that's what, I have a
685
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:32,319
couple of examples that I
686
00:18:32,319 --> 00:18:33,559
think are, are interesting
687
00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:35,960
for this. And I kind of, kind of brings
688
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:36,839
us back around to the
689
00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:38,359
whole point of tornadoes,
690
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,480
generally speaking. But I think, I think
691
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,279
the, I guess the, the goal
692
00:18:42,319 --> 00:18:44,559
in the ad account is having,
693
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:46,640
having as many things that are
694
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,079
thoughtfully built out that
695
00:18:49,079 --> 00:18:50,160
can reach different people at
696
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:51,440
different points of the buying journey.
697
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,359
And then I personally lean towards
698
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:55,839
letting that meta allocate
699
00:18:55,839 --> 00:18:57,759
between those through a function of
700
00:18:58,039 --> 00:18:59,079
jamming everything into a
701
00:18:59,079 --> 00:19:00,920
CBO, cost controls and things
702
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:01,400
like that.
703
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,279
Yeah. So, so to your point, you're saying
704
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:05,400
instead of having it be
705
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,720
the container of an ABO, CBO,
706
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,319
whatever, with certain, you know, it's
707
00:19:09,319 --> 00:19:11,079
like cost control it and let
708
00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:12,279
that be the way that you're,
709
00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:13,160
that you're limiting it,
710
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:14,359
which I think is valid.
711
00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:16,799
Yeah. And because like, so if you've
712
00:19:16,799 --> 00:19:18,160
ever, you know, if you, if you watch
713
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:18,880
campaigns, it's like,
714
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,839
there's only so much available volume
715
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,559
every single day. And so
716
00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:23,720
let's say that the available
717
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,440
volume today for your, your campaign is,
718
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,400
is $3,000. And, but your,
719
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,440
your, your highest volume,
720
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:31,680
lowest cost, however you want to phrase
721
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,400
it, budget is set at $4,000. Like you're
722
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:34,319
going to be off target.
723
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,559
But if you, if you are, have two
724
00:19:37,559 --> 00:19:39,039
campaigns set up and they're both set at
725
00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:40,079
$3,000, they have cost
726
00:19:40,079 --> 00:19:41,519
controls set up. It's like, well,
727
00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:43,359
depending on the day, the dollar is going
728
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:44,160
to allocate to the one
729
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:45,680
that's going to be most efficient. And
730
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:46,599
it's not perfect every single
731
00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:48,680
day, but over time you just,
732
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,279
yeah. I think that the idea of the ad
733
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:53,359
account kind of being this
734
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:54,839
like pipeline that can expand
735
00:19:54,839 --> 00:19:56,400
and contract based on what's in it,
736
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,759
seasonality, things like that helps kind
737
00:19:58,759 --> 00:20:00,400
of visualize this in
738
00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:04,079
my brain. So, I mean, I want to ask Zach
739
00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:06,200
about landing pages. Brad's got an
740
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,680
example of sort of going
741
00:20:08,319 --> 00:20:10,400
from having not no real landing page,
742
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,400
having landing pages and
743
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,160
seeing like accounts scale,
744
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:16,839
you guys are obviously building a ton of
745
00:20:16,839 --> 00:20:18,759
different landing pages all the time.
746
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,480
Do the landing pages, you know, how, how
747
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,480
important to you guys is landing page
748
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:25,680
congruency between the
749
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,839
ad and landing page? And how important is
750
00:20:27,839 --> 00:20:29,799
the diversity of offer or
751
00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:31,160
type of landing pages as
752
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,200
well? Like five reasons why, listicle,
753
00:20:34,759 --> 00:20:36,119
how do you, how do you even
754
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:37,440
begin to sort of think about
755
00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:40,079
that and that testing all of those things
756
00:20:40,079 --> 00:20:41,200
to make sure that there's,
757
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:42,599
you're giving that options and
758
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,000
there's congruency, but there's also
759
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,039
choice. This episode is
760
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:46,359
brought to you by Northbeam,
761
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,279
the marketing attribution platform that
762
00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:49,200
we love over here at
763
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,680
scalability school. If you're a
764
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,200
marketer, I mean, you probably agree,
765
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,200
right? Incrementality
766
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,480
testing is broken. They were,
767
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,799
these tests require tons of labor,
768
00:20:57,039 --> 00:20:58,599
spreadsheets, statistical
769
00:20:58,599 --> 00:21:01,000
reference, and the designing of a
770
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,039
test is slow and error prone. How are you
771
00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:03,839
supposed to know what to
772
00:21:03,839 --> 00:21:05,039
test in the first place,
773
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:06,720
right? There's a million factors that can
774
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,440
make incrementality testing difficult,
775
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,680
but the good news is Northbeam has
776
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,039
completely changed the game and they
777
00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:13,759
fixed this. Only Northbeam
778
00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:15,440
incrementality automates your
779
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,640
incrementality test design and monitoring
780
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,039
while protecting you from
781
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:20,480
the major mistakes that plague
782
00:21:20,519 --> 00:21:23,359
incrementality testing. Northbeam builds
783
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:24,519
tests using your own
784
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:27,079
MTA data, launches them directly in ad
785
00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:29,160
platforms, and automatically monitors
786
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:30,920
them throughout. If something
787
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,000
threatens validity, you're alerted before
788
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,920
it ruins the result. With
789
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,279
Northbeam, you can launch tests
790
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,920
in platform with a single click, saving
791
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,279
you tons of time and reducing any chance
792
00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:42,599
for errors. And when
793
00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:45,119
the test concludes, your results flow
794
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,519
straight into your MTA, meaning you can
795
00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:49,400
easily see results alongside
796
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,480
the rest of your data. Incrementality was
797
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,039
broken. Northbeam fixed
798
00:21:53,039 --> 00:21:54,160
it. And there's congruency,
799
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,119
but there's also choice. I could talk
800
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,079
about this for like an hour, but I think
801
00:21:58,559 --> 00:21:59,960
like speed, speed run it.
802
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,119
Start with listicles. It's the easiest
803
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:02,839
thing to do. It's the,
804
00:22:02,839 --> 00:22:04,079
it's the simplest template.
805
00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:06,319
It does what the human brain likes, which
806
00:22:06,319 --> 00:22:07,519
is like simplifies things
807
00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:09,039
down into a step-by-step
808
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:10,920
process, which is why I think, I think
809
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,200
most consumers resonate
810
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,000
with it. Cause it's like,
811
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,920
what is this thing? Five, five different
812
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:15,960
reasons, seven different
813
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,160
reasons why you might like this
814
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,480
or why it's going to solve your problem
815
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,240
or whatever. Right. So I always say,
816
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:20,920
start with listicles.
817
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:22,839
I'm still top performer for what it's
818
00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:24,480
worth for hollow Mars. Like we still
819
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:25,440
spend the most behind them.
820
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,279
Then obviously there's like advertorials.
821
00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:29,960
I think advertorials are just really hard
822
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:30,799
to do. So I usually tell
823
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,000
people to like wait until you like have
824
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:34,200
absolutely optimized the
825
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,240
shit out of your listicles.
826
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,440
And then there's what there's quiz, which
827
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,960
is like, I think a bigger one that more
828
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:41,920
people now on Twitter,
829
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,000
especially like in the supplement or
830
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:43,440
health and wellness
831
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:44,519
space are starting to pursue
832
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,359
and rip our quiz off for what it's worth.
833
00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:48,799
That's okay. Cause I think
834
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:49,799
we ripped like a couple other
835
00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:51,799
people's quizzes combined to create ours.
836
00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:53,400
So all is good at the end of the day. But
837
00:22:55,279 --> 00:22:57,599
quiz is a huge one. Like I think not
838
00:22:57,599 --> 00:22:58,720
enough brands are, are
839
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,559
building quizzes that should be,
840
00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:02,480
if you're a problem solution product at
841
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:02,920
the end of the day, you
842
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:03,799
should be running quizzes.
843
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:05,680
And that could be anything from health
844
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:06,759
and wellness to physical
845
00:23:06,759 --> 00:23:08,200
goods to whatever. Right. So
846
00:23:09,079 --> 00:23:11,079
outside of that, I mean, the congruency
847
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:12,319
piece is huge. I've like
848
00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:14,400
joked with Brad to like not talk
849
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,440
about it on the podcast too much because
850
00:23:16,759 --> 00:23:18,559
it was like a big piece of like what was
851
00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:20,000
allowing us to scale
852
00:23:20,039 --> 00:23:21,680
February and March. Not that we're trying
853
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,200
not to give value, but Brad
854
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:23,960
really wanted to give this
855
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,279
to us. And I was like, let's hold a
856
00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:26,400
minute. And of course now you
857
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:27,559
go and you scroll Twitter and
858
00:23:27,559 --> 00:23:29,920
Chad from Gruens is talking about it and
859
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:30,680
other people are talking
860
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,039
about it. So that's a big thing.
861
00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:34,240
I mean, like candidly, like for hollow,
862
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:34,880
we've been doing funnel
863
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,400
congruency from the very beginning,
864
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,319
right? Like that business was built on me
865
00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:39,759
trying to find pockets and
866
00:23:39,759 --> 00:23:40,920
cohorts of customers where we
867
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,200
would match the listicles to the static
868
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,400
ads. So I've been a fan of
869
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,680
that strategy for a long time,
870
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,799
but doing it to a level that we are now,
871
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:50,400
even like for Mars is like super
872
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:51,359
interesting where we have,
873
00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:53,880
you know, a pain point or something that
874
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:54,599
we're going after, which
875
00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:56,640
might be like dad bods for
876
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,279
weight loss for summer. And we're going
877
00:23:58,279 --> 00:24:00,319
to have ads match the listicle or ads
878
00:24:00,319 --> 00:24:01,240
match the first page
879
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,119
of the quiz and then follow through. It's
880
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:04,240
a big thing. The only other
881
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,519
sentiment that I would say is
882
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,440
we've been testing and this is like some
883
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:08,359
alpha is that we've been
884
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,079
testing like running a congruent
885
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:13,559
landing page and then putting PDP on the
886
00:24:13,559 --> 00:24:14,480
bottom of the page. So
887
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,799
there's like one full funnel
888
00:24:15,839 --> 00:24:17,279
within a single page that's been like
889
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,759
ripping. So I think we're going to see
890
00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:22,599
more congruent funnels
891
00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:24,839
that basically go from ad concepts,
892
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,720
angle, hook, whatever you want to call
893
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,400
it, positioning to a
894
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,119
page that's talking about the same thing
895
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:31,319
to a product page that's
896
00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:32,480
talking about the same thing.
897
00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:34,640
Because I think what happens is like we
898
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,319
used to say, hey, run ad.
899
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,240
That's like the angle to a landing
900
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,400
page that's probably talking about it,
901
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,079
congruency. Then they go on to the PDP
902
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:42,000
and the PDP is general
903
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,680
because you don't want to make a PDP so
904
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,319
specific that then it can't
905
00:24:45,319 --> 00:24:46,359
be sold to all these other
906
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,160
different positions. Now I think it's
907
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,160
going to be congruent ad
908
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,200
lander PDP, but you can do that all
909
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,759
within like the landing page ecosystem
910
00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:55,559
because pages are getting
911
00:24:55,559 --> 00:24:56,720
so much easier to build.
912
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:58,799
All right, friends, quick break. This
913
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:00,480
episode is brought to you by Northbeam,
914
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,400
the marketing attribution platform that
915
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,359
we love over here at Scalability School.
916
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,279
If you're a marketer,
917
00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:06,559
I mean, you probably agree, right?
918
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:08,319
Incrementality testing is broken.
919
00:25:09,079 --> 00:25:10,920
These tests require tons of labor,
920
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,359
spreadsheets, statistical reference,
921
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,960
and the designing of a test is slow and
922
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,160
error prone. How are you
923
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,319
supposed to know what to test
924
00:25:18,319 --> 00:25:19,640
in the first place, right? There's a
925
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,000
million factors that can make
926
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:22,240
incrementality testing
927
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,599
difficult. But the good news is Northbeam
928
00:25:24,599 --> 00:25:25,680
has completely changed the
929
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:26,759
game and they fixed this.
930
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,359
Only Northbeam incrementality automates
931
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:30,359
your incrementality
932
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:31,759
test design and monitoring
933
00:25:32,079 --> 00:25:33,559
while protecting you from the major
934
00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:34,720
mistakes that plague
935
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:35,839
incrementality testing.
936
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,119
Northbeam builds tests using your own MTA
937
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:40,400
data, launches them
938
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,839
directly in ad platforms,
939
00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:43,519
and automatically monitors them
940
00:25:43,519 --> 00:25:45,480
throughout. If something threatens
941
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:46,720
validity, you're alerted
942
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,039
before it ruins the result. With
943
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:50,759
Northbeam, you can launch tests in
944
00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:52,400
platform with a single click,
945
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:55,039
saving you tons of time and reducing any
946
00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:56,519
chance for errors. And
947
00:25:56,519 --> 00:25:58,359
when the test concludes,
948
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,920
your results flow straight into your MTA,
949
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:02,799
meaning you can easily see results
950
00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:03,920
alongside the rest of
951
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,440
your data. Incrementality
952
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,359
was broken. Northbeam fixed it.
953
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,720
I'll stop there. What's interesting,
954
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,119
there's like, if do we tie this back to
955
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,400
being intentional about
956
00:26:12,519 --> 00:26:14,079
building a congruent funnel, how many
957
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:14,839
times can we say those
958
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,079
random words? Like you didn't just
959
00:26:17,079 --> 00:26:18,920
start by saying, somebody told me on
960
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:19,799
Twitter to make a listicle,
961
00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:20,599
I'm gonna go make a listicle.
962
00:26:20,599 --> 00:26:22,400
It's like, no, we saw that this specific
963
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:23,440
cohort was resonating
964
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:24,559
with this specific message.
965
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:26,240
And then we watched our ads, we watched
966
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:27,039
all the ads that were
967
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:28,519
grouped into these categories of
968
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,839
this specific persona. So we always use
969
00:26:30,839 --> 00:26:31,720
the hunter example,
970
00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:34,039
historically. So it's like you saw
971
00:26:35,079 --> 00:26:37,880
people, hunters were buying hollow socks.
972
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:38,920
And there was probably a
973
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,359
handful of reasons why people
974
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,519
were buying those socks that informed the
975
00:26:42,519 --> 00:26:44,079
listicle. And then just kind
976
00:26:44,079 --> 00:26:45,519
of becomes this circular thing
977
00:26:45,519 --> 00:26:46,960
of, okay, these ads are informing the
978
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,519
landing page, landing page can form the
979
00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:49,720
ads. And then you can,
980
00:26:49,759 --> 00:26:51,440
you can kind of build this, this cycle of
981
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:52,160
testing and learning
982
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,440
within that. But then it's like,
983
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:54,359
there's, there's a bunch of other things
984
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:55,000
you can do. Like that's
985
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,079
where I think we had this whole
986
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,720
episode on playbooks. Like this, the
987
00:26:57,759 --> 00:26:58,680
playbook episode was like a
988
00:26:58,680 --> 00:26:59,880
pre, this was months and months
989
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:00,799
ago. It was like, it was a preview to
990
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:01,359
this. Cause it's like,
991
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,480
once you have hunters ripping,
992
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,519
you can go to, I'm just pulling random
993
00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:05,039
people out. I don't
994
00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:05,839
know shit about hunting.
995
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,759
Joe Rogan is a really well-known hunter.
996
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:09,480
It's like, you can go,
997
00:27:09,599 --> 00:27:10,680
obviously it's a, that's a stretch,
998
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:11,759
but like you can go to hunters and you
999
00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:12,440
can get them to create
1000
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,200
content. You can figure out
1001
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,359
whitelisting partnerships with them.
1002
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:15,519
Maybe you can make products
1003
00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:16,279
for these people. It's like,
1004
00:27:16,599 --> 00:27:18,160
that's like the level of being
1005
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,000
intentional. It's like,
1006
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,799
there's, there's progression to it.
1007
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,559
It starts with trying to get the ads that
1008
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:23,279
are, that people are
1009
00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:25,279
resonating with and then going,
1010
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:27,440
there with it. Yeah. I'll give you the
1011
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:28,319
one example that I, that
1012
00:27:28,319 --> 00:27:29,279
I have, where it's like,
1013
00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:30,960
it's so obvious that this was meaningful.
1014
00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:32,880
We came in to a brand, uh,
1015
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,680
they sell high OV, um, beauty
1016
00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:36,480
product as kind of where I'll leave that.
1017
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:37,799
And they were, they had a
1018
00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:39,079
great founder ad that was just
1019
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:41,119
like crushing literally like the only
1020
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,319
thing that we did, we were, we were
1021
00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:43,160
trying to launch ads that
1022
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,519
could beat it. And we were like, ah,
1023
00:27:44,519 --> 00:27:46,039
getting tiny little incremental wins here
1024
00:27:46,039 --> 00:27:47,039
and there. And then we
1025
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:49,160
just like took the transcript of the ad,
1026
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:51,720
looked at who was responding to the ad,
1027
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,119
which was women 45 and up.
1028
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,200
Uh, and then said, okay, what is this ad
1029
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,279
saying? And in what order?
1030
00:27:56,319 --> 00:27:57,680
And then turn that into a
1031
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,440
listicle. And it literally increased,
1032
00:27:59,559 --> 00:28:00,400
like we, we scaled their
1033
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,799
spend 60% month over month twice
1034
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,240
with no new ending ads. Like, I wish I
1035
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:06,039
could say we hit on a
1036
00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:07,039
banger new ad, but it's like,
1037
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:08,720
we just made the ad more consistent. It
1038
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,680
said it spoke exactly to, to,
1039
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,000
to the demo that was buying it,
1040
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,319
listed out the reasons from the video
1041
00:28:13,319 --> 00:28:14,519
that they resonated with in the first
1042
00:28:14,519 --> 00:28:15,920
place. Um, and it just,
1043
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,599
yeah, it, it ripped. And there's like
1044
00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:18,519
countless examples of
1045
00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:19,039
this where it's like,
1046
00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:20,759
if you're going zero to one to your point
1047
00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:22,160
on landing pages, it's
1048
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:23,880
okay. Go watch your top
1049
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,119
performing ads and figure out what the
1050
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:26,720
hell it's saying. Go look at the
1051
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:27,720
breakdown and meta of who
1052
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,599
it's delivering to go look at some of the
1053
00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:31,039
comments and then boom, now
1054
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:31,920
you can build a landing page
1055
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,799
with that information. The other part
1056
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:34,880
that people forget is
1057
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,079
people don't watch your whole ad.
1058
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,279
You may tell a story and they get like
1059
00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:41,799
through chapter three and
1060
00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:43,119
you're, you've got 20 chapters,
1061
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,759
you know what I mean? So it's like taking
1062
00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:47,039
the ad and they get a taste
1063
00:28:47,039 --> 00:28:48,599
of it, like letting them like,
1064
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,680
whatever, get that same taste the second
1065
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:51,480
they land on it and then
1066
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:52,720
continue to go through the rest of
1067
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,319
the story on the pages. It just makes
1068
00:28:54,319 --> 00:28:55,079
sense, right? It's like
1069
00:28:55,079 --> 00:28:55,960
telling the whole story before
1070
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,759
they're sold on the product. This is just
1071
00:28:57,759 --> 00:28:58,400
like something I've been
1072
00:28:58,400 --> 00:28:59,640
thinking a lot about lately,
1073
00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:02,359
about like future, future product ideas,
1074
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:03,319
future brands, whatever.
1075
00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:04,759
Um, and the brands that are
1076
00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:06,920
crushing. I think a lot of people need to
1077
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:07,720
think about this before
1078
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:08,839
they start a product or start a
1079
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:10,079
brand, or even if they're like looking at
1080
00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:11,000
their own business and what
1081
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,599
to focus on is create a product
1082
00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:15,359
or sell a product, which this sounds like
1083
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:16,759
maybe fucking obvious, but
1084
00:29:16,759 --> 00:29:18,200
it's just like it clicked the last
1085
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,400
couple of weeks that you can sell it with
1086
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,519
like 50 fucking angles. Like
1087
00:29:23,519 --> 00:29:25,200
you want the ability to sell
1088
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,480
it to all these different things. So I'll
1089
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,559
use I made as an example,
1090
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:29,359
cause this is one that's just
1091
00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:32,240
been like tripping me up. They're running
1092
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,839
ads about testosterone and
1093
00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:36,640
tying it to their main product.
1094
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,519
They're running ads about weight loss and
1095
00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:39,240
tying it to their main
1096
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,400
product. They're running ads about
1097
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,480
prebiotics and probiotics and like all of
1098
00:29:44,519 --> 00:29:46,400
this, like, you know, gut
1099
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:47,559
health stuff and tying it to
1100
00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:51,039
their main product. They built a brand in
1101
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:52,279
a product and Grunz
1102
00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:53,319
built a brand and a product
1103
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:54,759
where they could literally come and talk
1104
00:29:54,759 --> 00:29:56,000
about it in 50 different
1105
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,720
ways and convince you to buy
1106
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,119
the product because it solves that
1107
00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:01,519
problem. I think this is why hollow,
1108
00:30:01,519 --> 00:30:02,359
despite it being like
1109
00:30:02,359 --> 00:30:04,519
fucking alpaca socks has worked is
1110
00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:05,279
because we take the same
1111
00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:06,920
approach, which is like, I can sell
1112
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,119
you these socks, but I will sell it to
1113
00:30:09,119 --> 00:30:11,720
you how you want to be sold. Not like how
1114
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:12,480
I think it should be
1115
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:14,480
sold. So thinking about products in the
1116
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,160
future, I think is like not
1117
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,240
going so tight and so narrow
1118
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:19,720
and having the ability to say, Hey, we
1119
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,240
can tie it to all these different
1120
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,960
pillars, but still land
1121
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,920
you on the same thing. It just gives a
1122
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,559
business so much more scale
1123
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:28,559
to grow. And like people talk
1124
00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:30,519
about Tam. Sure. Tam is a thing, but it's
1125
00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:31,599
like, what is your, what
1126
00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:32,839
are your angles, Tam? What is
1127
00:30:32,839 --> 00:30:35,440
your like positioning Tam? Like those I
1128
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,799
think are things that not a
1129
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:37,839
lot of people think enough about.
1130
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:38,880
And that's really where the scale
1131
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,920
happened. So a little bit of a rabbit
1132
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:41,839
hole off of what you're
1133
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:42,960
talking about, but I think it's super
1134
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,720
interesting. Yeah. I think that's, I
1135
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:45,559
think it's huge. I mean,
1136
00:30:45,559 --> 00:30:47,039
it's, you want to give yourself as many
1137
00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:48,240
options as possible. And I
1138
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,400
totally agree with you on the,
1139
00:30:50,519 --> 00:30:52,039
on the landing pages that you guys are
1140
00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:54,119
talking about, um, you
1141
00:30:54,119 --> 00:30:55,400
know, outside of taking sort of
1142
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,720
a copy of the ad and re-explaining it and
1143
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,839
things like that. Um, talk
1144
00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:02,240
to me about the components of
1145
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,079
what you've seen with winning landing
1146
00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:05,400
pages. Are we talking about,
1147
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,319
you know, is there a nav bar?
1148
00:31:08,359 --> 00:31:10,920
Is there, you know, is, is it, is it
1149
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,240
built for mobile first?
1150
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:13,480
Like what are, are there some
1151
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,000
components of here? Like, does it, does
1152
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,000
it make the buy box, you
1153
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,440
know, or subscribe? Like,
1154
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,559
does it ask for an email first so that
1155
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:21,839
there's a cappy signal? Like
1156
00:31:22,279 --> 00:31:23,599
what are some pieces of this
1157
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:25,039
that you've seen that are more
1158
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:27,319
successful? I can, I'll go on a couple of
1159
00:31:27,319 --> 00:31:28,359
things that stand out. And I
1160
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:29,759
think Zach, you've probably mentioned
1161
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:30,240
some of these in the
1162
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,480
past, but like I click on,
1163
00:31:31,599 --> 00:31:33,480
I click on a lot of ads from people that
1164
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:34,400
I recognize on Twitter.
1165
00:31:34,519 --> 00:31:35,319
Cause like they pop up
1166
00:31:35,319 --> 00:31:37,359
in my feed. The amount of times I've seen
1167
00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:38,319
a comparison chart at
1168
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:39,599
the top, it looks exactly
1169
00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:41,559
like hollows, like not even changed
1170
00:31:41,559 --> 00:31:43,119
colors is incredible. But
1171
00:31:43,119 --> 00:31:44,319
the comparison chart at the top
1172
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:45,799
of like a listicle page is like a nice
1173
00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:46,960
little like summary view,
1174
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,400
whether it's comparing it to
1175
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,319
a direct competitor or like alternative
1176
00:31:50,319 --> 00:31:51,759
options. Um, but it's kind of like
1177
00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:53,039
resonating with the ad.
1178
00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:54,279
I'm struggling to think of like an
1179
00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:56,119
immediate example on top of my head, but
1180
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:57,640
obviously the headline
1181
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,640
is extremely meaningful. But then having
1182
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,480
that like summary view, whether it's a
1183
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:02,920
little bit of like a TLDR and it's
1184
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:03,680
extension of what the
1185
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,200
messaging is in the ad, but that
1186
00:32:05,319 --> 00:32:06,559
like a comparison chart literally
1187
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:08,240
directly at the top of a listicle
1188
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:09,640
consistently works pretty well for,
1189
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,319
for us, especially if it aligns with some
1190
00:32:12,319 --> 00:32:13,200
of the messaging in the ad.
1191
00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:14,559
Like the, if I go back to the
1192
00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:16,000
product that I was previously talking
1193
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,720
about at the top of their page, it's got
1194
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:18,880
a comparison chart to
1195
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,559
alternative products. It's like, there's
1196
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:21,640
two, there's two distinct
1197
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:22,759
reasons why somebody might buy
1198
00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:24,680
this product. It's either because they're
1199
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,119
concerned about like how
1200
00:32:26,119 --> 00:32:28,519
they look or about their,
1201
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:30,519
eyesight. There's competitive products.
1202
00:32:30,519 --> 00:32:31,880
Don't solve both of those at
1203
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,880
once, but this product does.
1204
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,559
And so that quickly addresses it in that
1205
00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:37,400
comparison chart before you actually go
1206
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:38,200
and consume the rest
1207
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,359
of the page, which details it. Um, that's
1208
00:32:40,359 --> 00:32:41,519
like one of the things that I've seen
1209
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:42,400
consistently showing up.
1210
00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:46,000
Something that I will say is a lot of
1211
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,440
brands aren't like telling the story of
1212
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:49,799
their offer well enough.
1213
00:32:49,799 --> 00:32:52,000
They like put it maybe in like the little
1214
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:52,880
top bar and it's like you
1215
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,119
rip scroll through that,
1216
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,240
or like maybe there's a tiny little call
1217
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,519
out in the hero section of a
1218
00:32:57,519 --> 00:32:58,799
page or it's all the way at
1219
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:02,160
the bottom. I think teasing that more
1220
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,519
throughout the page, I think is, is
1221
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:05,599
helpful. And not a lot of
1222
00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:06,960
brands are thinking about that. So I
1223
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:07,839
would say that's something
1224
00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:08,720
that we've tested recently.
1225
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,759
That's like helped a lot is, is actually
1226
00:33:10,759 --> 00:33:11,920
like bringing that offer
1227
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,480
language more to the forefront
1228
00:33:13,599 --> 00:33:15,799
to kind of like keep them compelled. It's
1229
00:33:15,799 --> 00:33:16,839
like, yeah, you can learn
1230
00:33:16,839 --> 00:33:18,240
this, this, this also you get
1231
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,920
this offer while you learn this, this,
1232
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,799
this, and then shop now. So it's like,
1233
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:23,920
that's just one other
1234
00:33:24,079 --> 00:33:26,400
sentiment I guess I'll, I'll share, but I
1235
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,200
was going to say, are you
1236
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,559
guys like, I don't, I don't even
1237
00:33:31,559 --> 00:33:32,839
know where this would show up, but like
1238
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:34,920
when, when you want, when you get people
1239
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:35,920
on subscription and you
1240
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,920
want them to be sticky, like in the case
1241
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,440
of like Mars, are you thinking about any
1242
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,160
ads or landing page or
1243
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,599
pre-purchase? Like how, Hey, in the first
1244
00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:46,319
30 days, I know you
1245
00:33:46,319 --> 00:33:47,319
guys, I think there's like,
1246
00:33:47,319 --> 00:33:49,079
everybody's ripped off the timeline thing
1247
00:33:49,079 --> 00:33:50,240
too. Like the timeline is
1248
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:52,000
like by day three, you're
1249
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,119
going to see this, this, and this. So are
1250
00:33:53,119 --> 00:33:54,880
you guys like pre-positioning to say
1251
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:55,759
like, Hey, the first
1252
00:33:55,759 --> 00:33:57,079
three days you might feel something, but
1253
00:33:57,079 --> 00:33:58,559
like by day 90, that's when
1254
00:33:58,559 --> 00:33:59,519
you're really going to see
1255
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:01,240
something. So try to like plant the seed
1256
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:02,240
ahead of time. I don't know
1257
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,200
how you'd even measure that
1258
00:34:03,319 --> 00:34:04,799
impact on retention, but kind of like
1259
00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:06,440
planting the seed that yes, you'll feel,
1260
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:07,559
you'll feel solid in a
1261
00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:09,519
couple of weeks maybe, but really by
1262
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:11,280
month three, month six, month 12, like
1263
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:11,800
that's where you're going to see
1264
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,840
the meaningful impact. Does that show up
1265
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,280
on your pages? That ties
1266
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,199
in with the offer piece too,
1267
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:18,880
right? It does. Yeah. Another thing I've
1268
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:19,440
been thinking a lot
1269
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,039
about is just like, how do we
1270
00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:22,840
get people compelled to use the product
1271
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:23,960
for 90 days? Cause that's,
1272
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:24,599
that's where you're going to
1273
00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:25,960
get the best results. And we've played
1274
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,519
around with like showing a 90 day or
1275
00:34:27,519 --> 00:34:28,559
quarterly subscription or
1276
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:30,280
not. And like for us, it just doesn't
1277
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:31,760
make as much sense. Some brands
1278
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:33,280
justified. I think that
1279
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:34,920
more should audit if they should do
1280
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,480
quarterly or not and actually look at
1281
00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:37,800
their contribution margin
1282
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,519
by month and payback period and ability
1283
00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:40,360
to scale faster. If
1284
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:41,639
they, if they don't defer
1285
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:44,639
revenue, but yeah, I think like we use it
1286
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:45,599
and we kind of try to tell
1287
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:47,519
that story and we've, we've,
1288
00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:48,960
we've taken some of those elements. Those
1289
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:49,960
are more, I think PDP
1290
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,719
elements from our ends than they are
1291
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,000
like, do I need to tell us where they
1292
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,119
need to take it for 90 days while I'm
1293
00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:54,920
trying to educate them
1294
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,480
before I sell them. I think a lander
1295
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:58,960
sometimes like that's where it's like, if
1296
00:34:58,960 --> 00:34:59,800
you, if you're going to
1297
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,039
try to do the one shot, you know, what
1298
00:35:02,039 --> 00:35:03,039
Gurns used to do, which is
1299
00:35:03,039 --> 00:35:04,119
basically like shoot everyone to
1300
00:35:04,119 --> 00:35:05,880
the Gurns.co, you know, their, their
1301
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,639
homepage and just like all traffic goes
1302
00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:09,199
there. You've got content,
1303
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:10,920
learn and then shop. I think if you're
1304
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:11,800
going to do all that one
1305
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,000
experience or like a primal queen
1306
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,280
situation where it's like all in one
1307
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,320
experience, I think that
1308
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,159
makes sense to then add that. But
1309
00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:20,960
if it's not, I would probably move that
1310
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:21,960
content. We've, we've,
1311
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:22,880
we've tried it. It just hasn't
1312
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,280
really made an impact. I think it's like
1313
00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:25,599
convincing someone that they need to do
1314
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:26,360
something for 90 days
1315
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:27,559
before they've even seen the price is
1316
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:30,639
like maybe not as ideal, but that's just,
1317
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:31,440
that's just my take.
1318
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,079
No, it makes a ton of sense. Aviating
1319
00:35:34,199 --> 00:35:35,239
slightly and we don't have to go down
1320
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:36,079
this rabbit hole too much,
1321
00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:39,440
but we're talking about like having all
1322
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:40,159
of these different entry
1323
00:35:40,159 --> 00:35:40,840
points. You're talking about
1324
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,920
having 50 angles that you should go into
1325
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,639
the brand with. What does
1326
00:35:44,639 --> 00:35:45,760
that mean for the value of,
1327
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:49,039
this is like very philosophical. Like we
1328
00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:49,599
don't have to spend too
1329
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:50,480
much time on this at all, but
1330
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:51,360
it's like, what does that mean for the
1331
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,599
value of brand? If like
1332
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:55,159
everybody like comfort, right?
1333
00:35:55,199 --> 00:35:56,280
Comfort's a great example of this, where
1334
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,360
they have an army of 8
1335
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,480
million creators or whatever,
1336
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,280
some insane number where all those people
1337
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:01,280
are kind of saying a lot of,
1338
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:02,000
like some of them are saying
1339
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,079
the same thing, maybe in some in
1340
00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:05,880
different ways, but it's like, what role
1341
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,039
does brand play when people
1342
00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:09,280
are coming in on like a completely
1343
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:10,400
different experience? Like
1344
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:11,639
what is the, what is the shared
1345
00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:14,000
thing, if anything, or is that where this
1346
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,000
like amorphous word of
1347
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,400
like, I mean, especially from
1348
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,039
the perspective of like everything looks
1349
00:36:18,039 --> 00:36:19,400
consistent and looks the same.
1350
00:36:19,559 --> 00:36:21,960
That seems to be like melting
1351
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,199
away a little bit more. I don't know. I
1352
00:36:26,199 --> 00:36:26,840
don't even know my question.
1353
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,639
I think, yeah, no, I think, I think I'm,
1354
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:29,639
I mean, I'm picking up what you're
1355
00:36:29,639 --> 00:36:30,719
saying. I think it's,
1356
00:36:31,079 --> 00:36:33,119
would you rather be the wellness brands
1357
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:34,480
or would you rather be
1358
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,239
the green powder gummy
1359
00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:39,159
brands? Right. I think I'd rather be the
1360
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:40,920
wellness brand. So I think
1361
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,480
it's okay if the brand is known
1362
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,039
for being a little bit more holistic
1363
00:36:44,039 --> 00:36:47,239
thing. Right. So Mars men, we want to be
1364
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:48,360
known as like the men's
1365
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,760
health brand. We don't just want to be a
1366
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:50,519
tea booster brand
1367
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:52,760
forever. Right. So I'd say like
1368
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:56,360
even comfort, like I think they have, you
1369
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,519
know, a million different
1370
00:36:57,519 --> 00:36:58,599
angles and positioning and
1371
00:36:58,599 --> 00:37:00,320
whatever, and it all ends up being comfy
1372
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:01,280
clothes for the most part.
1373
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,559
It's like, I think that that
1374
00:37:02,559 --> 00:37:04,400
has like a, you know, a mental health
1375
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,400
like component to it as well. Like I
1376
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:07,400
think that that's what they're
1377
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,639
okay being known for that, like big halo
1378
00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:10,679
thing. And that is their
1379
00:37:10,679 --> 00:37:12,199
brand. I'd almost say like not
1380
00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:13,880
being super niche and having a little bit
1381
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,039
more holistic is like what
1382
00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:16,199
a brand is known for. Right.
1383
00:37:16,199 --> 00:37:17,639
When you think Nike, I think shoes, I
1384
00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:19,760
don't think like fucking track jackets
1385
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,519
and shit always. Right. So
1386
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:23,960
I think that that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I
1387
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:24,880
agree. I think it's, I
1388
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:25,920
think it's an interesting point.
1389
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,719
It's like how, I think there's a lot of
1390
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:28,400
people that are trying to
1391
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:29,920
go more niche and, and, and
1392
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,519
thinking about it that way. But I think
1393
00:37:31,519 --> 00:37:32,239
as you start to get
1394
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,360
bigger and want to have,
1395
00:37:33,639 --> 00:37:35,360
want to scale into a lot of different
1396
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,800
angles, you turning it into
1397
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,480
a brand and a brand that's
1398
00:37:38,519 --> 00:37:40,199
known for something is going to create a
1399
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:41,199
totally different ballgame
1400
00:37:41,199 --> 00:37:42,639
for a lot of folks and is going
1401
00:37:42,639 --> 00:37:44,519
to help you scale ultimately as well,
1402
00:37:44,519 --> 00:37:46,119
just because it's like, they can trust
1403
00:37:46,119 --> 00:37:47,880
the name that's behind it.
1404
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:49,519
And they know that that's what they're
1405
00:37:49,519 --> 00:37:51,480
buying that with comfort
1406
00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:52,679
with, you know, they're buying
1407
00:37:52,679 --> 00:37:54,159
comfortable stuff. That's what they're,
1408
00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:55,159
you know, that's what it is,
1409
00:37:55,159 --> 00:37:56,320
regardless of what the product
1410
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,920
particularly is going forward. It's
1411
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,159
interesting. Within this is a talk about
1412
00:38:02,159 --> 00:38:03,119
partnership ads really
1413
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:07,199
briefly. Do you, you know, also match
1414
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:08,639
landing pages with the
1415
00:38:08,639 --> 00:38:10,440
partnership ad or the partner,
1416
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:11,880
the person that you're working with? I
1417
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,079
mean, I've seen it done both
1418
00:38:13,079 --> 00:38:14,079
ways, right? Like if it's a big
1419
00:38:14,119 --> 00:38:15,840
enough person, you can do that. And you
1420
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:16,920
put the video on there.
1421
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:18,400
It's not as common. Most of the
1422
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:19,599
time I just see it sent to like a
1423
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:21,400
general, like successful
1424
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,840
lander. But what do you guys think?
1425
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,400
And what have you heard? I can go first.
1426
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:25,519
We've tested it for small
1427
00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:26,440
creators and big creators.
1428
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:27,960
It only really matters for the big ones
1429
00:38:28,199 --> 00:38:29,440
is like what we found. If
1430
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,559
it's just like, whatever,
1431
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,039
Sally Smith, like it doesn't matter as
1432
00:38:34,039 --> 00:38:35,320
much unless it's going to
1433
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,039
be a, like a, a more, um,
1434
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,519
like a doctor or something that, that
1435
00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:41,679
then even their following
1436
00:38:41,679 --> 00:38:42,599
doesn't have to be that big and
1437
00:38:42,599 --> 00:38:44,719
then it can follow through. Or if it, if
1438
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:45,599
it goes to like more of an
1439
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:47,000
advertorial, like their story,
1440
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,519
but if it's like a listicle and then it
1441
00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:50,599
includes Sally Smith, like
1442
00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:51,920
doesn't matter as much. But if
1443
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,440
it's like a celebrity, A, B, C list
1444
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,639
celebrity, like I think then it can
1445
00:38:56,639 --> 00:38:57,840
usually carry more weight.
1446
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:58,559
And that's what we've
1447
00:38:58,559 --> 00:38:59,280
seen in performance.
1448
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,719
Yeah. I, I haven't, I haven't done a ton
1449
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,360
of this, but, um, this could be an
1450
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:06,599
interesting segue into
1451
00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:07,920
kind of having a bunch of different
1452
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,639
landing pages live at once. But, um,
1453
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,360
we've got, we've got brands
1454
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,039
where they have like an advertorial or
1455
00:39:14,039 --> 00:39:15,719
like a page that's the founder's story
1456
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:16,719
and it's coming from
1457
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,239
attached to the founder's ads, uh, has
1458
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:20,280
not historically been the
1459
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,920
top spending landing page
1460
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,280
at any given time, but it does a really
1461
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:24,480
good job at like capturing
1462
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,559
additional volume, um, from,
1463
00:39:27,039 --> 00:39:28,199
you know, maybe people that are a little
1464
00:39:28,199 --> 00:39:29,159
bit further down the
1465
00:39:29,159 --> 00:39:30,159
funnel and they've already been
1466
00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:32,199
do the listicle page. Maybe they've seen
1467
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:34,119
a couple of ads. So haven't done any
1468
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:34,920
crazy testing on that.
1469
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:35,760
It's something I'd like to do a little
1470
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,519
bit more of, but the, the founder
1471
00:39:37,559 --> 00:39:39,039
advertorial kind of pages
1472
00:39:39,639 --> 00:39:40,960
is what we've seen some solid success
1473
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,400
with. I'm going to, I'm just
1474
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:43,360
going to go back to this point
1475
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,000
I was making earlier. Okay. So I think we
1476
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,239
used to, I maybe used to
1477
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:48,880
say, and I will change my
1478
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,119
perspective on this, that having like
1479
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:52,719
this niche that to go after
1480
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:53,960
is like the best way to build a
1481
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,840
business. You want to build a $10 million
1482
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,639
business, like in e-com, that
1483
00:39:57,639 --> 00:39:59,039
is a great opportunity to go
1484
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:01,079
do, right? It's like have this thing to
1485
00:40:01,079 --> 00:40:02,280
go do. But if you're trying to build a
1486
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:03,880
big nine figure business,
1487
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,599
you need the ability to like really
1488
00:40:06,599 --> 00:40:08,039
broaden, broaden that out.
1489
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:10,559
I'm in Atria right now. I don't
1490
00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:12,039
know if this is against the sponsor, if
1491
00:40:12,039 --> 00:40:13,639
it is beep that name, but,
1492
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,599
um, I'm in Atria looking at
1493
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:19,760
IM8s at angles and it's fucking crazy.
1494
00:40:20,039 --> 00:40:21,400
It's like, they are
1495
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,039
talking about, let's see here.
1496
00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:25,360
They're talking about cellular support.
1497
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,440
They're talking about
1498
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,679
naturally like declining with like
1499
00:40:28,679 --> 00:40:30,199
things naturally declining with age.
1500
00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:30,679
They're talking about
1501
00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:32,320
improving guts. They're talking
1502
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,440
about stress management. They're talking
1503
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,880
about like so many muscle
1504
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,519
recovery. Like, it's just like
1505
00:40:38,559 --> 00:40:40,599
the broadest ability to talk about all
1506
00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:42,400
these things. These are the brands that
1507
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,599
scale to nine figures.
1508
00:40:43,679 --> 00:40:45,519
If you, if you really are just like, Hey,
1509
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:47,559
we're a sleep supplement,
1510
00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:48,719
like you're probably going to
1511
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,480
have a harder time scaling to nine
1512
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:51,960
figures because you can only talk about
1513
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,360
sleep. So anyways, I mean,
1514
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:54,760
like that's where I'd almost question
1515
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:55,840
myself now, but when I just said that
1516
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:56,320
where I'm like, okay,
1517
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,079
well it could, sleep could impact your
1518
00:40:58,079 --> 00:40:58,800
recovery, which could
1519
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,000
impact all these other things. So
1520
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,119
I think that goes back to the point of
1521
00:41:02,119 --> 00:41:04,119
saying, can you sell your product a
1522
00:41:04,119 --> 00:41:05,199
million different ways?
1523
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:06,920
And I think you need to like look outside
1524
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,119
that, that scope besides
1525
00:41:08,119 --> 00:41:09,519
just saying, can you, can I,
1526
00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:11,199
can I help you sleep better? Like what
1527
00:41:11,199 --> 00:41:12,719
else does sleep do to
1528
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:13,599
impact people's lives?
1529
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:15,960
And like, maybe you can reposition it 20
1530
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,159
different ways to get more scale.
1531
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,440
Well, we wouldn't be e-commerce D2C gurus
1532
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:22,360
if we didn't say
1533
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:23,920
something and then completely
1534
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,199
contradict ourselves later so that people
1535
00:41:26,199 --> 00:41:27,400
listening are confused.
1536
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:28,360
That's just part of our,
1537
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,199
our, this is, you know, that's, that's
1538
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:31,559
where we live. You know, that's why we
1539
00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:32,679
get to say it depends.
1540
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,519
It depends. It does. Yeah.
1541
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:37,519
No, I mean, I think it's, I mean, I, but
1542
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:38,480
I think it's true. I
1543
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:39,599
think it's true. Like it's,
1544
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,559
that's, that's the next level of growth.
1545
00:41:41,559 --> 00:41:43,159
You have to become more to
1546
00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:45,159
more people. Like you can't just
1547
00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:47,280
be a person. You can build a $10 million
1548
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,400
company on being the person
1549
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:50,559
that sells shoes to mountain
1550
00:41:50,559 --> 00:41:52,480
bikers or whatever it is. Like, you know,
1551
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:53,719
I can, I completely agree
1552
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:54,760
with you. And that's when it's,
1553
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,239
it's shifting into becoming a brand or,
1554
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,199
you know, or you also do a
1555
00:41:59,199 --> 00:42:00,599
brand, but you also do something
1556
00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:02,559
like Sean is done with Ridge, which is
1557
00:42:02,559 --> 00:42:05,360
like product diversification that are
1558
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:06,599
completely different from one
1559
00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:08,079
another. And like, there is a brand
1560
00:42:08,079 --> 00:42:10,320
there, but there's also like massive
1561
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:11,320
product diversification
1562
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,000
that like they're able to cross sell and
1563
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,559
upsell, you know? So it's
1564
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:17,199
like, I feel like yours are more
1565
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,480
adjacent in terms of you're going to sell
1566
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:20,480
a T supplement and then
1567
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:21,760
it's going to be other
1568
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,400
products that are closer to that
1569
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,440
necessarily. Right. But I think that
1570
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:26,320
that's, if you look at,
1571
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,440
you know, you look at even like comfort
1572
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:29,960
or you look at quince, the men, like a
1573
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,360
clothing brand quince,
1574
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,880
like we all know them. They're a huge
1575
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,320
company now, largely on the
1576
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,719
back of like being creative
1577
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,079
in terms of product categories are going
1578
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:39,039
after. They're just,
1579
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:39,760
now they're like, yeah,
1580
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:40,679
you know what, we're going to try that.
1581
00:42:40,679 --> 00:42:41,320
And that's that
1582
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,880
inflection point happened when they
1583
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,519
got outside money. Like they were like,
1584
00:42:46,519 --> 00:42:47,000
this is what you're
1585
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,199
going to go do now. So yeah,
1586
00:42:48,199 --> 00:42:50,079
it's interesting, but. Well, exact to
1587
00:42:50,079 --> 00:42:51,159
give you credit in the past,
1588
00:42:51,159 --> 00:42:51,880
it's like, I think when you've
1589
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,000
said this in the past, maybe not on this
1590
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,800
immediate like episode, but
1591
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:56,719
like in previous episodes,
1592
00:42:57,039 --> 00:42:58,599
like maybe the playbook episodes, like
1593
00:42:58,599 --> 00:43:00,159
you can take a specific
1594
00:43:00,159 --> 00:43:01,360
persona angle, whatever,
1595
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,719
like pretty far, obviously TAM dependent,
1596
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,039
right? Like maybe hunters
1597
00:43:05,079 --> 00:43:06,639
isn't the most massive category,
1598
00:43:06,639 --> 00:43:08,480
but compression socks are, it's like, you
1599
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:09,360
could take compression
1600
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:10,920
maybe way further than you could
1601
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,679
say hunters, but like you can take it far
1602
00:43:12,679 --> 00:43:13,599
by being more
1603
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:14,559
intentional, kind of the whole,
1604
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,920
whole theme here. But yeah, yeah, for
1605
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:17,480
sure. And I think that
1606
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:18,679
that's mostly just where
1607
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:20,880
when people talk about like getting stuck
1608
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:21,599
with their business, I
1609
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:22,920
think they need to assess that.
1610
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:24,159
And they need to think about the next
1611
00:43:24,159 --> 00:43:25,440
product being something
1612
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,639
that can be sold 50 different
1613
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:29,360
ways, but still come back to the same
1614
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:30,719
simple product, right?
1615
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:31,519
That's why, that's why these
1616
00:43:31,519 --> 00:43:33,400
businesses grow. It's like when you have
1617
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:34,840
to buy sizes and all this
1618
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:35,920
different shit, like it just
1619
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,039
overcomplicates the company when it's
1620
00:43:38,039 --> 00:43:39,079
literally a one product
1621
00:43:39,159 --> 00:43:40,519
that can ship in a poly mailer,
1622
00:43:40,519 --> 00:43:42,920
like it really does simplify that. So
1623
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,159
yeah. Can we, can we deviate
1624
00:43:44,159 --> 00:43:45,280
to this all like landing page
1625
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,440
diversification thing for a second? Can I
1626
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:48,840
give a, can I give an example of this?
1627
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,320
Yes. Perfect. I've been
1628
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:52,639
dying to do this. I'm just like,
1629
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,280
shaking over here. So, okay. So I think
1630
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:56,480
what's really interesting is like, okay,
1631
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:57,679
everybody's been talking about this idea
1632
00:43:57,679 --> 00:43:59,159
of ad diversity, ad
1633
00:43:59,159 --> 00:44:00,400
volume, et cetera. And
1634
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:01,960
to your point earlier, it's like landing
1635
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:02,559
pages are getting
1636
00:44:02,559 --> 00:44:04,280
progressively easier and easier to
1637
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,760
build on the back of AI mostly. And with
1638
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:07,800
that, I don't think the
1639
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,239
goal of landing page testing is
1640
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,239
necessarily to find the one winner, just
1641
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:12,360
like it's not, you don't,
1642
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:13,719
you don't need your goal
1643
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:14,880
isn't just find one ad. Like you're
1644
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:15,559
trying to find a bunch of
1645
00:44:15,559 --> 00:44:16,719
bangers that can kind of support
1646
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,280
the entire thing, whether you're talking
1647
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:19,079
about a bunch of different angles or
1648
00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:19,639
you're focused in on
1649
00:44:19,679 --> 00:44:21,480
one specific angle. And we started to see
1650
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:22,199
this to be true with,
1651
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:23,280
with landing pages this year.
1652
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,199
So I've got an example pulled up the last
1653
00:44:25,199 --> 00:44:26,679
30 days, brand spent around
1654
00:44:26,679 --> 00:44:28,440
300 grand. Half of the spend
1655
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,079
is going to a five reasons why page,
1656
00:44:30,119 --> 00:44:31,679
right? So like that's half the spend.
1657
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,079
Then the other half of the
1658
00:44:33,119 --> 00:44:34,360
spend is going to a different five
1659
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,199
reasons why page. And then another, or
1660
00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:37,199
not, sorry, not another half,
1661
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,920
half the spend, 15, 20% of the spend is
1662
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,360
going to another five reasons why page.
1663
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,119
An advertorial style page is taking up
1664
00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:45,719
another chunk of that
1665
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,159
spend. We had a quiz page,
1666
00:44:47,199 --> 00:44:48,480
which if you asked me this, if I was
1667
00:44:48,599 --> 00:44:49,920
sharing these numbers 60
1668
00:44:50,039 --> 00:44:51,039
days ago, the quiz was the
1669
00:44:51,039 --> 00:44:52,519
top spend. It was, it was 50% of the ad
1670
00:44:52,519 --> 00:44:53,519
account. And that's kind of,
1671
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:54,519
that's kind of a point of the,
1672
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,400
if I'm looping this back to the tornado
1673
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:57,159
piece, it's like, if you
1674
00:44:57,159 --> 00:44:58,599
have all these pages live
1675
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,039
and they all have the same ad going to
1676
00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:00,719
them, right? Like it's not
1677
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,079
like the ad is specifically
1678
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:03,159
different. And for this product that
1679
00:45:03,159 --> 00:45:05,840
works, but it's like all, all
1680
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,119
of the ads are the same to all
1681
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:08,480
the different landing pages. But what
1682
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,039
you'll find is that meta will deliver
1683
00:45:10,039 --> 00:45:10,920
them differently to the
1684
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:12,079
person that's going to resonate with that
1685
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:13,199
page. So it's, you have
1686
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:14,079
a five reasons why page,
1687
00:45:14,119 --> 00:45:15,039
you have a quiz page, you have an
1688
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:15,840
advertorial, you have
1689
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:16,840
these different types of pages,
1690
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:18,360
and then you still have your PDP. Cause
1691
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:19,800
there's going to be people who are
1692
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,000
clicking on the product
1693
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,199
on white background. Cause they've seen
1694
00:45:22,199 --> 00:45:23,840
all 10 of your ads so far.
1695
00:45:24,039 --> 00:45:25,280
And they, all they need is the
1696
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:26,599
final one that says, here's the offer,
1697
00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:28,320
click to buy, and it sends them to the
1698
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,239
PDP. But if you have
1699
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:31,880
all those things available, you'll see
1700
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:32,880
different delivery. And one,
1701
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,639
one more piece I found that
1702
00:45:34,639 --> 00:45:35,599
was really interesting on this, if I go
1703
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:37,480
back to the example of the
1704
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:38,039
brand that I was talking about
1705
00:45:38,039 --> 00:45:39,719
earlier, the beauty brand, when we
1706
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:40,960
launched that landing page, everybody's
1707
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,519
obsessed with CPMR right now.
1708
00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:44,800
They were able to scale their spend and
1709
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,719
CPMR went down as a result
1710
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:47,639
of this page. Cause all of a
1711
00:45:47,639 --> 00:45:49,480
sudden this ad is more relevant and meta
1712
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:50,360
knows that the ads are
1713
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:51,159
relevant. People are going to
1714
00:45:51,159 --> 00:45:52,119
convert better and there's a better
1715
00:45:52,119 --> 00:45:53,440
experience overall. So
1716
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,159
they're going to, they're going to
1717
00:45:54,159 --> 00:45:55,880
give you that little back tap in the
1718
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,000
auction to like, say, cool, we, we like
1719
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:58,719
this. Like, you know,
1720
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,280
you're, this is great. Like keep, keep
1721
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,119
going. So a lot of, a lot of
1722
00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:03,119
points in there, but I think
1723
00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:04,559
there, there can, you can have, you're
1724
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:05,440
not just trying to find one
1725
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:06,320
winning page. Like you're not
1726
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,920
testing your PDP versus your landing
1727
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,719
page. You can have them all live, just
1728
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:10,800
like let them all live
1729
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,239
and let meta allocate the spend between
1730
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:13,679
them is my opinion. The time
1731
00:46:13,679 --> 00:46:14,519
to actually test and try to
1732
00:46:14,519 --> 00:46:16,280
find the winning variances. I want to
1733
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:17,719
test a five reasons why
1734
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:19,320
against this five reasons why,
1735
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:20,599
or I want to change this headline on the
1736
00:46:20,599 --> 00:46:21,320
five reasons why or
1737
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,760
whatever. Um, I don't know.
1738
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,760
Just dying to share that. You're, you're
1739
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,320
spot on. I mean, I'm
1740
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:27,719
looking at, I'm looking at Mars
1741
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,599
Landers, which just has more scale than
1742
00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:30,639
hollow now. So I think it's just
1743
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,119
interesting to call out
1744
00:46:32,119 --> 00:46:34,239
29 pages have gotten spent in the last 14
1745
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,440
days. Like the, it takes
1746
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:38,719
having these like different
1747
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,079
pockets to be able to get more scale. And
1748
00:46:41,079 --> 00:46:41,880
I think also more
1749
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,159
efficiency at the same time.
1750
00:46:43,199 --> 00:46:45,840
So it's like, yeah, I mean, one has, one
1751
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:47,639
has 450 K in spend one
1752
00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:50,119
has 200, once 150, then 150,
1753
00:46:50,119 --> 00:46:52,559
then 120, then a hundred. But like that,
1754
00:46:53,039 --> 00:46:53,840
you know, there's so many
1755
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,159
like 80, 50, 60, 40, 40,
1756
00:46:57,159 --> 00:46:59,920
40, 40, 40, 40, 40. Like there's so much
1757
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,280
spread out. Right. So I think just to
1758
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:03,320
assume, like you said,
1759
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,239
one banger isn't going to, you know,
1760
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,079
maybe if you've not tested landing pages
1761
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:08,280
before to get the one
1762
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:09,800
banger is great, but like to get more
1763
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,119
scale and get more efficiency,
1764
00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:12,000
especially if you're running,
1765
00:47:12,039 --> 00:47:13,000
I think, especially if you're running
1766
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,199
cost controls, like
1767
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,119
having more shots at goal is
1768
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:18,800
actually like the best way to do it. And
1769
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:19,519
if you can tie it into
1770
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:21,280
congruency, I think meta actually
1771
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:22,519
sees it as a completely different funnel,
1772
00:47:22,519 --> 00:47:24,239
which I think helps with, with auction.
1773
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,039
Yeah. And you have the same ads going to
1774
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,039
like those page, like
1775
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:29,239
maybe it's the same ad going to
1776
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,079
several of those pages. Right. And I'm
1777
00:47:31,079 --> 00:47:32,000
sure there's a mix, but
1778
00:47:32,199 --> 00:47:33,639
like you're trying to do less
1779
00:47:33,639 --> 00:47:34,679
probably going to three.
1780
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:36,199
We're trying to do less of that now
1781
00:47:36,199 --> 00:47:37,480
though, and try to keep it like we're
1782
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:38,599
only launching ads if
1783
00:47:38,599 --> 00:47:40,119
there's a congruent page to launch it to,
1784
00:47:40,119 --> 00:47:41,440
if it's about weight loss or if it's
1785
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:42,719
about GLPs or if it's
1786
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,840
about whatever, uh, you know, anti-aging
1787
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,199
or whatever. We're seeing
1788
00:47:47,199 --> 00:47:48,519
that that's working better
1789
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:50,719
and more efficient if you can just wait
1790
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,840
and actually tie it to a page that said
1791
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:53,880
we do, we would run the
1792
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,400
ads to a 10 reasons, like our top 10
1793
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,559
reasons and our top quiz. Right. So it's
1794
00:47:57,559 --> 00:47:58,800
like, of course that's
1795
00:47:58,800 --> 00:47:59,559
still going to happen, but I think
1796
00:47:59,559 --> 00:48:00,880
there's less and less of that now.
1797
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,280
I think, um, you guys, maybe this is a
1798
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:04,000
lot of alpha that I'm
1799
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:04,960
going to share, but I don't
1800
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:06,079
know if you've ever heard of the six
1801
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:08,000
reasons why, but it's
1802
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,360
pretty, it's pretty dope. It's
1803
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,760
actually one more reason why, which is
1804
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,400
what makes it great. Um,
1805
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,800
then you have. So all y'all
1806
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,320
suck is out here still doing five. You
1807
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:19,960
know, I'm over here doing six.
1808
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,280
Ironically, seven has been
1809
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,000
working better than five recently.
1810
00:48:24,159 --> 00:48:25,519
Well, look at Mars. We're running 10.
1811
00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:31,760
Yeah. Well, Hey, thanks for tuning in
1812
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:32,760
everybody. If you loved
1813
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:33,800
this, please email me,
1814
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,840
Andrew at foxhole digital.com rate us on
1815
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:36,800
your favorite platforms.
1816
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:38,079
Tell all the SAS companies
1817
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:39,280
that we mentioned on this episode that
1818
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:40,199
you heard about, heard
1819
00:48:40,199 --> 00:48:41,639
about them from us. Uh,
1820
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,280
and we are appreciative of you listening
1821
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:45,480
all the way to the end. So
1822
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:46,559
until next time, take care.
1823
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,519
This episode is brought to you by Brad's
1824
00:48:53,519 --> 00:48:56,639
company, work marketing. If you need a
1825
00:48:56,679 --> 00:48:57,760
DTC marketing agency,
1826
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,400
let me tell you, Homestead is great, but
1827
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,239
work marketing is also
1828
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:03,719
fantastic. And let me tell you,
1829
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,239
you aren't going to find friendlier
1830
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,239
people out there, uh, in the e-commerce
1831
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,400
space. So we decided
1832
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:12,760
to do these little ads for each other's
1833
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,199
companies. So hopefully you find it
1834
00:49:14,199 --> 00:49:14,920
interesting, but seriously,
1835
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:17,679
great team at work marketing, very smart.
1836
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:18,880
Brad and Jordan are
1837
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:20,960
incredibly dialed in. Um, I just gave
1838
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,239
them a lead already made this brand that
1839
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,079
I gave them. Like, I don't even know,
1840
00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:27,079
double, double revenue
1841
00:49:27,079 --> 00:49:28,320
that they had in the previous month or
1842
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,280
something. So, you know, it's very
1843
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:31,960
exciting to, to be connected
1844
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,639
with Brad. And if you need a great
1845
00:49:33,639 --> 00:49:35,559
agency, there's really no one better, uh,
1846
00:49:35,559 --> 00:49:37,000
Zach, anything to comment
1847
00:49:37,079 --> 00:49:38,880
on work marketing? Yeah. I mean, if you
1848
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,079
want an agency that cares about your
1849
00:49:41,079 --> 00:49:42,119
business much more than
1850
00:49:42,159 --> 00:49:43,599
they care about their own website, I just
1851
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:44,400
tried to load work
1852
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,920
marketing.com and it was broken.
1853
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:47,960
So they're definitely going to give more
1854
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:48,639
of a shit about your
1855
00:49:48,639 --> 00:49:50,440
business than their own. So I
1856
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,119
highly recommend Brad and the team over
1857
00:49:52,119 --> 00:49:52,840
at work. They've been
1858
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,519
incredible. We've referred a lot of
1859
00:49:54,519 --> 00:49:56,079
business over to them as well. Really,
1860
00:49:56,079 --> 00:49:57,480
really good as far as like cracking
1861
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:58,760
funnels and figuring out
1862
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,000
like rapid growth for brands. So I highly
1863
00:50:01,199 --> 00:50:02,000
recommend these guys.
1864
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,880
The only way that we grow this podcast is
1865
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,400
by you sharing it with
1866
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:16,320
your friends. Honestly,
1867
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:17,760
like reviews kind of don't really mean
1868
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:18,800
anything too much anymore.
1869
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:19,880
They're really meaningful,
1870
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,639
but they don't do a lot for the growth of
1871
00:50:21,639 --> 00:50:23,239
the podcast. Um, and so
1872
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:24,480
sharing YouTube links,
1873
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,119
sharing Spotify links, sharing Apple,
1874
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:29,480
whatever we call it under the podcast
1875
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:30,719
app. Now, anything you
1876
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,639
can share the better we're going to be,
1877
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:34,639
um, guys, anything else
1878
00:50:34,639 --> 00:50:35,559
you want to say on this?
1879
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:37,559
Yeah, please go check us out on YouTube,
1880
00:50:37,599 --> 00:50:38,880
rack up those views for us.
1881
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,000
We'd love to see it. And then
1882
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,440
subscribe, make sure to subscribe on
1883
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:42,400
YouTube as well. And I
1884
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:43,840
relentlessly refresh the YouTube
1885
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,360
comments because it dictates my mental
1886
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:46,440
health for the day. So please say
1887
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:47,559
something nice about all of us.
1888
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:49,880
Thank you everyone.
1889
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,519
Thanks for listening. Honestly.