Economic Development with Will Williams

Josh Morton: And because we are a regional alliance, the state allocates a certain amount of money that we can access. that can be used for product development, which ⁓ help support the original development when the partial road went into the commerce part. We were able to use some of those funds for that. We also get funds available for professional development. Will, thank you so, so much for coming on here today. I know I've learned a lot. I definitely have as well. ⁓ economic development. There's just so much involved in it. And there are so many pieces to a puzzle and we are so thankful to have somebody like you who has Saludis best interest at and you are there to put the puzzle pieces together. Well, I'm glad I was able to join this conversation. I've enjoyed Well, today we are joined by Will Williams from Western SC. Will, welcome to the podcast. Hey, it's good to be here. Thank y'all for having me. Thanks for coming. We are very excited to have you. And we get started, why don't you just tell us a little bit about Western SC and who Western SC is and what you all do. Have you ever wondered how a business actually ends up in Saluda County? Like who makes that call and why here instead of somewhere bigger? Exactly, because it's not random and it's definitely not as simple as putting up a now hiring sign. There's a whole process happening behind the scenes and a regional team working to make it happen. Today, we're sitting down with Will Williams from Western SC to talk about how we attract businesses, what Saluda County brings to the table. Have questions or an idea for an upcoming episode? Email us at publicinfo at saludacounty.sc.gov. And to quote the great Ron Burgundy, you stay classy, Saluda County. We'll see you next week. Department of Revenue provides the county with a report every year of the fee and lose that are in place, what the contracted amount the company committed to invest, and then it shows how they've actually invested. ⁓ And for all of the agreements, they've substantially exceeded the amount they to. And just because the County approves a fee and Luke does not guarantee that a company is going to locate here. many that is a step in saying, Hey, we would like for you to come here, but the company ⁓ may decide. we'll, we've heard a lot in the last couple of months about incentives and philos. you maybe walk us through a little bit about what incentives are, why we use them South Carolina state law permits counties to grant fee and lieu of taxes. So Will, could you walk us through a little bit on how y'all attract businesses and kind of what a typical project life cycle looks like for y'all? We meet with site selection consultants. these are companies that represent individuals looking for locations. They come up with a wants and needs analysis of the company, and then they will in turn generate a request for information. all the episodes that you all have had. It gives me even more insight to the people that make Saluda County great. And doing this all together is what it's going to take to continually ⁓ Saluda County prosperous. And, will undoubtedly not be Will's last time on the Saluda County unplugged podcast, because, there is so much that we couldn't cram into this episode, which South Carolina Economic Developers Association has a every year that lasts over four meetings that we sent numerous Saluda County employees to. ⁓ which is a good thing. are a lot of backstops in place with and lose. So there is a mechanism there to protect the county in case a company doesn't do what they've agreed to do. Correct. There is. and what it really takes to compete for jobs in a rural community like ours. This week on Saluda County Unplugged. we would prefer to go somewhere else. So fee and lieu is not a guaranteed thing of that revenue will come in. We hope it is nine times out of 10. It usually means we're in the right frame of mind, but it's not always the case. And sometimes those companies even pull out before we get to that third reading and approved. know last year we had a potential solar farm that the county council started that process, but I So Western SC is a 42 year old organization that was put together by Aiken County council. And in 1988, Edgefield joined ⁓ up with our organization. then in 2014, Saluda became a part of the group. And then ⁓ in 2017 McCormick County became part of it. I have been the president and CEO. to companies that invest more than two and a half million dollars over a five year period. some say, well, they're not paying any taxes. They're paying a fee rather than tax, but it is calculated as if it were a tax. That is confusing. I know. but, that is how it's set up. The other thing. So anytime a manufacturer in South Carolina, to go out to the parts of the country this company may be considering. Such things as a amount of available acreage, proximity, access to an interstate, a four-lane highway, available power, available natural gas, available water and sewer, and labor force, all those things are in the RFI. So we're to access funds for folks to go to these classes. And I can remember Regina Turner has been and there have been others in the past that have gone and I think that helps ⁓ because economic development is a ⁓ very process. It's not It is already I know longer than any episode we've had so far, it's all great information and there will definitely be some follow ups. Glad to come back whenever and I'll bring more notes Well, thank you all for taking this on. I enjoy to work with both of you. Absolutely. We enjoy it and hopefully. since 2011 and there were the gentleman before me had been in place for 20 years and the gentleman who started it up ⁓ was for about eight years. So there's been three heads ⁓ but have a board of directors that are appointed by members of the four county councils that we for so we report I don't even think they made it to second reading on that. Is that right? Correct. And it doesn't have to be sequential meetings. can, you can have a first reading, skip two, three, four months, second reading. lot of it depends on the County and when they need things. Invest more than $50,000 in one year. That company statutorily, without action by saluta County council will not pay saluta County taxes for five years on that $50,000. So it is beneficial to do a fee and Lou, industry is taxed at 10 and a half percent. If you live in your home. easily explained and ⁓ so it's good for everyone possible within the to exposure to what goes on to make successful economic development happen. You don't have to sequentially run those readings. We like to have it match up to what the company is looking for from a timing standpoint. And, sometimes ⁓ it really the company that's dictating these things, not the county council. That is correct. And if the company is being offered a fee and they have been vetted and we've talked to them. As some of these prospective companies are listening in, hopefully this will be something that will encourage them to visit Saluda County. We would love to have them. And so in the region that we're in, there are multiple industrial sites. if somebody needs to be within five miles of an interstate, we have an industrial park in Aiken County that is right the interstate. If somebody needs a 20 acre site, we have that here in Saluda County. So we... to that board for physical matters in terms of our budget, things like that. But when it's actually time to work with a prospect or an expansion, we're working directly with the county. So have a 21 member board and then four county council chairs. So that's like bosses. Yes, I know I can do math, but I have lot of different bosses and own it, you're taxed at 4%. Also, that 4 % does not pay school operations taxes. It only pays the school debt service, whereas industry in that 10.5 % pays county millage and all the school millage. when you look ⁓ tax rates across South Carolina and you compare them, fill these out and send them back. And then we're kind of waiting to see if we get shortlisted and the typical life cycle. So think of it as a funnel. They send these RFIs out to many different states ⁓ ⁓ everybody gets in the top of the funnel. And then as criteria don't work out the funnel and the number of people in that funnel narrow. And then usually four or five communities are chosen for. County Council has been briefed on them. That's usually done in executive session. so they'll understand kind of they're not blindly voting on something. we look at We analyze things. We do background information these companies. And we actually have ways to get to it. We're not just typing something in to chat GPT and expecting an answer. Every community has different strengths. Every community has its weaknesses. And so we try to identify locations where industry goes. to our neighboring states, are not competitive for industry because of our state has set up the taxation system. So, fee and lose help take really bad situations and make just not comfortable. I have a ⁓ that I use shows how much difference there is if don't offer a fee and lose. a visit by consultant and or the company. ⁓ percent of the time, 95 percent of the time, we have no idea who that company is because we have signed a non-disclosure agreement at the request of the company. we're to, through the allies that we use, we're able to get real-time information. And if we do offer a fee and Lou compared with some counties in North Carolina and Georgia, Tennessee states, usually compete against. So is a fee and Lou always a huge tax break for these companies? it is a tax break. Yes. But when you consider a company investing $10 million ⁓ you do the calculations on it, You're still paying taxes more than a property owner would. and sometimes that is what has to be done for us to garner investment, not just in saluta, but across South Carolina. I, it easier to make a sandwich with ⁓ no bread one piece of bread? that's kind of ⁓ the way to at it. you can't make a sandwich if you don't have any bread. So Will, a few minutes ago, we talked about what companies are looking for, but we just kind of touched on it. Could you dive a little bit deeper into what companies look for before they move into a community? Many times a company will have done what we call a secret shopper. They will either have evaluated the community online or they maybe have come into town and downtown or gone into a restaurant and, know, to evaluate the workforce, ⁓ evaluate people's attitudes, the way town is kept, because if you know company's coming, you're going to clean your house up and ⁓ have But you can if you have one piece. Because many say that we are giving money away and hard to money away that you never had to begin with. and I know recently there was a lot of discussion around the solar farm. everything spotless, how's it going to be when, ⁓ those are some of the things companies do look for. They, ⁓ will come in and do that. they read press clippings because many times I've been asked questions in the various counties we work for. what about this issue? And I'm like, okay. but some things are totally out of our control. If a company were to need 10 or 15 megawatts of power, So that's ag land, which is taxed even differently than your home is. So that particular solar farm may and again, that's still several years down the road if they ever locate, it was paying about $3 an acre in property taxes. It will paying substantially more if it gets built. And property taxes is There's nothing Saluda County can do about that. Our commerce park is served by dominion. Dominion says we have that or we don't have that. And if we do have that, we can get it to you by this time. That is totally out of Saluda County's control. companies typically look for a workforce within 45 minutes of the location that they choose. That's the good thing. very convoluted because you look at your automobile tax bill and you're taxed at 10.5%. If you're a business or if you rent a house or if you're industry, you're taxed at a different rate and then your homeowner, you're taxed. and you really have to study your tax bill to see that you're not paying the school operations millage. So we could have a whole session on property taxes. Sluda County's got good people living here and in proximity people that commute in, commute out every day to go to work. so that is not an issue. We have a great technical college system that offers training for new companies, for their employees, because many times we hear from folks go, well, we've never had anybody in our community do something like that. We'll go back to 1993 when BMW I'm not the auditor. I'm not the assessor. but because what we do, we have to be educated enough to be able to have these conversations. Right. And with the Filo that is the primary incentive that counties can offer to industry. The other one is they can ⁓ give away. Boeing down in Charleston, keep going back to that reference, but when it came to South Carolina there was nobody in our state that had built a BMW before, the technical college system was able to do that. So they're of our many allies, important in the economic development process. Charleston County donated the land for that. The land BMW is on was purchased by Spartanburg County for BMW. The land that Bridgestone is on in Aiken County, Aiken County paid for. So, there are some things that we can do as a county to attract business. the piece actually money, whereas, the Filo I think we sort of in our minds, it sounds like foregone revenue, but in cases it is increased revenue. Yes, it is. it is that wasn't coming into the County to begin with. And now you're having revenue and it is not as much ⁓ as it be if we didn't do the fee in lieu. But if we didn't do the fee in lieu, they wouldn't be here. So it's kind of a. So Will, What are some things that we can do on a day to day basis? And even look into the future that would put us in a better position to recruit industry. it's been a multi-year process, but the county just, purchasing the land, having it cleared, putting the road putting water and sewer in. a dog chasing its tail type of equation. really hard, hard to look at, but obviously want to have good law enforcement, fire, good provided by the counties. Manufacturing facilities help pay for all that, whereas the homeowners don't have to pay as much for those services where the manufacturer those are excellent ways to help attract industry. And our here in Saluda County do a fantastic job. they have kids coming out there ready go to work. economic development is very competitive. The one thing I we do. I don't think any of us are able to, but if we could move I-20. doesn't necessarily need those services as often as a homeowner would. And think that's something that, a lot of people, whenever they think about, taxes and all those types of things, that ⁓ is how the county all these services is through taxes. And so bringing ⁓ economic development into the county ⁓ a way to help keep taxes as low as possible. or I-26 about 15 miles closer to where it is. That would really be to We don't that four lane access coming in and out of Saluda. we travel these we know it, and when you're talking to a company, you can explain it to them, but they understand the importance of and still be able to provide those services that our citizens rely on every single day. That's correct. pundits say something doesn't create any jobs and jobs are important. But a county like Saluda has had extremely low unemployment until some of the recent population gains and people are entering the labor force looking for jobs, which is a good thing. ⁓ But County has been one the leaders. four lane divided highways, whether it be an interstate or something that. ⁓ If had those, I think that would help us. So that's why we see names with these economic development projects, right? Correct. State law does allow for confidentiality until third reading of fee and lieu agreement, at which time the company name has to revealed. And many people don't understand the lack of transparency the And I appreciate that. of unemployment in South Carolina for many, many years. but County is always and every other County needs revenue to operate and industry is the best to offset any potential tax increase that the residents would have to bear. But really it's more on the company side than it is on the community side there multiple reasons. Sarbanes-Oxley is a federal law against, stock inflation of prices. So, you know, if it were public that XYZ company was looking at a new location or looking to grow, that could arbitrarily inflate their stock price. There's a federal law against that. they could When County Council ⁓ is going through an ordinance on economic development, I think important we talk what that is actually doing I think sometimes people think that that ordinance is directly related to the company coming to Saluda County. But it's my understanding that be giving up trade secrets by, we're looking to locate companies, looking to locate here. And you have a situation where a company has a location in another state and they're contemplating relocating to another and that would mean a closure. And so if they did all that work and then decided, this isn't a good process us, then that... that ordinance really is just related to the Filo. is not telling a company whether or not they can or can't come. Right? Yes. Zoning is one of telling the company whether they can come and operate other rules and regulations. all the fee in lieu is, basically a contract with that company that says company, if you invest this and create this in terms of jobs, Workforce would be totally disrupted in the original plan. It'd be hard for them to continue operation ⁓ we're trying to hide things. it's more of protecting the company and County Council not only approving entity for many of these things We will offset your taxes a little. And if five years, you don't live up to that, we can a have you repay the difference between ad valorem, which the 10 and a half percent rate and the fee and loop make you pay the difference or B we can just reset your property tax to ad valorem. And the legislature and the only have certain amount of funds to expend towards improving the roads. I think our biggest attribute right now is having that commerce part with the road and with water and sewer. Is somebody coming tomorrow? No, but we're further along on the development curve. many different ways you want to look at because if you require a company to repay everything, because once we get them here, they are a good company, we want to do everything we can to keep them growing, keep them purchasing things from the community, employing community members, having events for the community, help sponsor events. Those are some of the intangibles that companies bring. But if you get too punitive, ⁓ could... They talked to numerous entities that have approval authority such as South Carolina of Environmental Services. They do stormwater. They also do any of air emissions the company have. They meet with water and sewer I spend a fair amount of time in Saluda County, whether it be visiting the lake riding around, looking at locations, riding through the commerce park, eating. I do lot of Intel gathering, that way too. this is a wonderful County, great people. Everybody gets up, works hard every day. just. The water and sewer has to have the capacity, has to be able to handle the effluent any ⁓ that needs to be done. So there are multiple steps. There are multiple facets of who companies talk to. It's just not done in the town square for everybody to be able to on. Right. And some of these companies I know are also dependent on other companies as well. So thinking of cause them to close the doors and move on. And while the building they're in would still be paying taxes, if the equipment would be taken out, then you would lose that revenue. Plus, you know, the payroll that would go in. So we have not had a situation since 2014 when we've been working with Saluda County where we've had to claw back a fee in lieu from a company. things that are out of the county's control. doesn't mean we won't be successful. It just makes success a little harder to reach. BMW up in the upstate. know there are several companies throughout the Southeast that actually located due to proximity to that plant. So I know that those conversations also happen in the background. Yeah. A lot of those things come out ⁓ during process when ⁓ we're with these companies. for instance, in Saluda County, South Carolina, pet food solutions is located where it is because of its partnership with Amic farms. and So Will, what would say success looks like Saluda County? The way the Commerce Park is situated, if we could get three or four manufacturers that had 50 to 100,000 square foot buildings employing to 100 people. That would really be huge because look at where the Commerce Park is positioned. Those secondary impacts where if we had that many more people at the Commerce Park, probably would see more restaurants. You'd probably see more shopping opportunities. And yes, most of the BMW suppliers, because it is a just in time facility, the suppliers have to be within 50 miles of that location. So there again, you need access to a four lane highway. You, you need access to a labor force. Just so many different variables that are out of the county's control. Because those retail follows rooftops and other developments. So if we some density in the commerce park, that would lead to other things. And it's been fun to watch. Cause I mean, Josh, you and I've watched the, Bojangles, go from old abandoned bank to a restaurant. That was a fun project to be involved with. list is long. mean it ⁓ I talked earlier about site selection consultants in the economic development profession, we actually refer to them as site eliminators because that's their job. They're going to start with ⁓ sites and they've got to get it down to three locations that they can or maybe four that they can recommend to the company to potentially choose. now we a tractor supply. it's not moving as fast as some, but it is positive progress. And I as the population continues to grow around the lake, I think you'll see opportunities for success happen in and around the traffic circle. ⁓ speed that we're going and ⁓ watching things happen we'll with all that being said, are a couple ⁓ positives and negatives that you think Saluda County has? Saluda County is a small and ⁓ that's a situation everyone knows everyone and that is a strength and ⁓ you have good county leadership You have responsive water and all those things I think is also important though, because it helps us to preserve that rural culture. we're not seeing growth at a pace that is putting, the local businesses out of business. It's really supplementing the local businesses. ⁓ Yeah. There are some in South Carolina that are ready to ⁓ stop growth. People have moved in so ⁓ and Saluda County's growth. are positives. the fact that we're in South Carolina and we're right near Lake Murray, are are all positives. And also a lot of open land. Yes. But you can't just build a manufacturing facility on any piece of land. Because there has be infrastructure there. These companies have timelines I think has been at a good pace, manageable pace with the land available and the resources. And as more and more people discover it, I think you will see folks moving here because rural life is what more and more people are attracted to. That is why the work has been done at the Saluda County Commerce Park to have the road put in, have the water and sewer put in, because if company ⁓ would come up before the road was there and they say, well, how are we going to get back there? Well, we have a plan. Well, how long is that going to take? We're not sure yet. that would eliminate us. and how close is the water and sewer was about a half mile down road. And, know, we grow peaches here in Saluda County, grow a lot of chickens ⁓ Saluda County. So agribusiness is something that we target to look at Saluda County. However, they can be energy and water intensive. And so we have to find the right mix to fit those type of utilities get the match. Well, how much is that going cost? and how long is that going to take? Two years. Sorry. We're moving on to the next community. So you have to be ready. ⁓ thankfully has gotten in a position where there is a sizable of property where we can show industry because up until then we really didn't have the property requirements that industry of today needs. Those are the kind of things we've been focused on for Saluda County. think one of the other things that people sometimes forget is it's not always just what kind of business we want in Saluda County. We have to find companies that are interested in coming here. That's correct. And, and you know, everybody in, in world I in and work around in And, speaking of, commerce parks and industrial parks, this is a little off topic, ⁓ but, not really one of the terms that we hear used these ordinances is the multi-county industrial park. Can you explain what that is? Yes. So that is what way I ⁓ refer to it, is a paper park. The one thing I hear more often than not is they want a Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's has very precise that they'd look for in locating a store. nowhere our region fits ⁓ their I'll give you another, instance. Aldi. They to have a population of 30,000. Because it exists only on paper. what that does, it's an incentive the state offers that the county does that permits the company to get additional corporate income tax credits to offset corporate income tax that they would have to pay the state of South Carolina. And it gives the county. within a three mile radius of their store. grocery stores are in short supply. Everybody says we need a grocery store. But when you understand from the grocery store side, the economics of it, margins are extremely tight. So they need rooftops and density to be able build their store and it profitable. I don't know that Saluda would want to see. a little more flexibility to be able to help with some infrastructure costs. Right. And now with that multi-county industrial park, is there any cost to the county for that? There is no cost associated with it. So 30,000 people within a three mile radius of an Aldi grocery store. don't even have 20,000 people in the entire county currently. And that's larger than three miles. ⁓ That's other thing. ⁓ And know we're talking about now, but but people that live in their homes want to have somewhere to shop things to buy. Many of the chains that folks really They look Saluda County being the host county would get 99 % and then the partner county would get 1 % of the property tax revenue. Right. And I know that there are a lot of instances where Saluda County is the partner county for other counties. So we're getting 1 % off of property tax revenue for something that is in another county. Edgefield or Lexington County. Right. So it's not a drain on our resources. It's not costing us anything. rooftop, they look at spending capability in terms of what the salaries are, and then they look at traffic counts on the roads passing by potential locations. And the good news or the bad news, whichever way you want to look at it, we don't have anywhere 10 to 15,000 cars a day are going by. We literally just by putting our County name on a piece of paper are getting 1 % of that property tax revenue. is correct. Yes. Very helpful. Yeah, absolutely. back to ⁓ the park though, you know, this is something that I think a lot of people have, have been watching as, as, the road was built, first we had the driveway and then we have the road and water and sewer has been, put in there, but it sounds to me as we're talking that really all of this is stuff that has to happen if we plan to try and recruit industry to come into that park. that's like when we had the Chick-fil-A food truck come by a couple years ago and everyone was like they're testing to see how many people would come if they put a Chick-fil-A here. I saw a post about that the other day. Why did Chick-fil-A die? They sent the food truck to see. Because there isn't enough people here. There's yeah, there's really like I made it in line for two hours. I'm like, so did I, but there's not enough people here for a Chick-fil-A. So in Aiken, we have one Chick-fil-A and it's over on the side of town. live on it. there are many people that live on the north side over around USC Aiken and everything. go, Oh, we need one over here. And I'm like, okay, you do realize that the pie is still the same size instead of having one big slice. So I've been in the business for 20 years. I've been at Western SC for 16 years. I got started, the was that you could ride a company by a raw piece of land say, imagine your factory here. Well, the way the world moves now in such fast, everything has to be ready. So that is why we have to have ready available sites. You're going to have two slices that requires you to double ⁓ the overhead. That's just like Why does Walmart not come here? Well, because there's two Walmarts within 25 minutes of the town of Saluda. I mean, where I grew up, still not a Walmart and there are probably 30 or 40,000 people there, but a Walmart 20 minutes in any direction. So. that into Commerce Park with the road and the water and sewer, the county put some money in it and we were able to access grant dollars from the state. So it wasn't all Saluda County money that paid for that. There was a large share of state money and the state a good job in making sure communities have ready available industrial sites. Well, and there is, there is a, in retail, I'm sure you've noticed it, you just never have thought about it. When you go somewhere shopping, aren't there like six or seven other stores real close by? That's what retail wants to They'll say, ⁓ okay, well, if, if this ⁓ operations here, then we'll go over here because they know that when you're out, you're going to say, okay, I need to go to Dollar General and I need to go to Pets R Us. And while I'm here, I might as well do this, this and this. So it's all right there together. So, you mentioned about Piedmont Tech a little while ago ⁓ and ⁓ don't talk a little bit about the new facility that they're building here in Saluda. Yeah, that's got some great potential to it. As we get manufacturers to locate here, there's a facility for them to put equipment in while facility's under construction and their employees can train on that equipment. And then as they trade out equipment they can donate equipment to Piedmont Tech. It also allows high school students and Piedmont Tech students from Saluda County to get hands-on experience mechatronics, all different aspects in manufacturing and that something that we can tout as we're out marketing Saluda ⁓ is that have workforce training facility right in town. So a few years back, actually went through the Leadership South Carolina program and of our sessions was held in Spartanburg County and we got to visit ⁓ a I believe it's called the Spark Center or something those lines and I think it's sort of a similar thing. The companies actually come in and basically take over that space and train the that are gonna be working in their ⁓ new facility. so that on day one when they open they already have a workforce that's ready to go to work. That's right. we had machine tool folks that had been trained in that, if we had welders, those ⁓ more arrows our quill as we're out hunting for prospects. ⁓ the more that is made like that, the more it helps our chances. And we all know every parent, wants their child to stay in the community where they were born and raised. so that's one thing that has always motivated me in economic development. have two sons. They have friends. always, that's the way I've at things. What can we do? What can go here that we can keep our young people local?