Bitcoin About To FORCE Through $125K — Wall St FOMO Is Loading | Scott Melker

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A little more confirmation we need, but this is exactly what I was looking and hoping for.
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People always say, what will be the catalyst for the next bull market?
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And this case, maybe it's something that Bitcoin is actually built for
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that brings people back to the core narrative of why you were all here in the first place.
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I think Bisset now is saying what he has to say to prep everybody for a massive infusion of liquidity, right?
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And listen, maybe AI can help them grow their way out of it, but nothing is stopping it.
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I think that what Druckenmiller is saying is obvious.
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It just takes price going up all of a sudden for people to once again be talking about
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Bitcoin is digital gold, the debasement trade, all these things, and it's happening again right now.
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You can say that it was liquidated shorts that sent price up, but that only tells the story up
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to about 70 or 71. I'm highly encouraged that after that leverage was flushed once again,
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that we've stayed up. That is not trading money. Something changed.
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That was Scott Melker, a market commentator with over a million subscribers and a daily show on
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Yahoo Finance. He also spent the last year as public enemy number one of Bitcoin treasury
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company fans for saying many of them were a terrible idea. He was mostly right. Today,
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he's officially flipped back to bullish. He says $125,000 is just a pit stop on the way to $1
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million Bitcoin. This is Scott Melker on why he stopped trading and why now his top strategy is
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just to buy Bitcoin and chill. I'm your host, Rob Wallace. Welcome back to the Bitcoin News Channel.
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Let's get into it. All right, Mr. Scott Melker, thank you so much for joining the show.
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Thanks for having me, man. Yes. Well, what a time to have you on.
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on a scale of one to 10, how bullish are you?
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I'll put it at an eight and a half.
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But I never know what the scale is.
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One, like we're going to zero.
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Like is one like my friend, Mike McGlone?
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And is 10 like plan B at the peak of last cycle
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where our sailor's saying 30 million
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by next year or something, right?
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So I don't know.
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I'm probably in the sevens or eights.
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I think there's a little more confirmation we need,
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but that's exactly what I was looking and hoping for.
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Yeah, and we'll get down to some of the metrics
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and chart lines in a little bit.
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But one thing I heard you say
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is that this feels like the Silicon Valley Bank bankruptcy
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and how we blasted off of 19 to around 25
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in a reaction to that.
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And now we've had this blast off from 62 to 79
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in reaction to the treasury market.
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So draw some parallels between the end
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of the last bear market and this one.
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It's interesting because people always say, what will be the catalyst for the next bull market?
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And the predictions are always wrong because it's always something unforeseen.
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In this case, maybe it's something that Bitcoin is actually built for that brings people back to the core narrative of why you were all here in the first place, right?
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I mean, we talk about institutional adoption and strategic Bitcoin reserves and BlackRock and all those things that are built into the number go up technology, but that maybe aren't that exciting for a Bitcoin maximalist or someone who's here for freedom.
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And so I think that the unexpected catalyst that people still don't realize was a catalyst for the last bull market was the Silicon Valley Bank failure.
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Right. So you're in 2023. We'd been languishing, I think, in the depths of a bear market since basically FTX at the end of the year before.
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Bitcoin had gone down to the 15,000s. But to my memory, I don't remember specific lines on the chart.
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But we were kind of just trading in the low 20s, high teens with very little interest and a lot of fear, uncertainty and doubt as to the future of the industry.
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And then Silicon Valley Bank failed. And of course, soon after, Signature Bank was murdered on a Sunday for no good reason.
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except for that they had built crypto rails.
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And we had this sort of existential crisis on the crypto side
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with Signature Bank as to what was going to happen.
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But Silicon Valley Bank had some unique properties, I think,
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that spurred the next sort of catalyst for a bull run.
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A is that they were obviously the bank for Circle, right?
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Or one of the banks.
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So I think it was $3 billion out of the $30 billion-ish market cap,
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Once again, my numbers are going to be rounding because it's, you know, I don't remember things exactly.
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Let's say 10% of their funds were sitting in Silicon Valley Bank.
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And there was literally this question.
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Well, if, you know, it's backed one for one, if we lose 10% is the value of USDC 90 cents and not a dollar, right?
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Is it going to D-peg it and head down?
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And so what a lot of people, including myself, did, not because I thought Bitcoin was going to go up,
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because I thought Bitcoin was safer.
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I converted whatever USDC I had into Bitcoin, right? Because we didn't know yet that the Fed
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was going to come in with the bazooka and say that we will backstop the entire banking system
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once again, if we have to, which is why Bitcoin was created, right? And so, you know, and luckily,
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Bitcoin then jumped from, you know, 18, 19 up to 24, 25. And I looked like a genius. But, you know,
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at that time, it wasn't buying Bitcoin because it was going to go up. It was buying Bitcoin because
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it was safe, and because it was built for bank failures, and because it was built for
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irresponsible fiscal and monetary policy and bank policy, and you know the rest of the
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story.
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So people don look back I think and say Silicon Valley Bank was the beginning of that bull run but it kind of was Because that when it really started to catch another narrative And then what happens is it just takes a narrative for the spark And then maybe the leverage kicks in and you liquidate
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some shorts and price goes up. And then the magic of one big green candle is all of a sudden,
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the things you were screaming about when price was down seemed to matter to people.
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So it just takes price going up all of a sudden for people to once again be talking about Bitcoin
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is digital gold, the debasement trade, all these things, and it's happening again right now. So
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in my view, what just happened is Bissent made the announcement, the amount of money for the
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bond buybacks that he initially announced doubling is a rounding error, insignificant.
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But the signal is that the Treasury is concerned about long yields and is going to intervene if
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they get too high. It's not yield curve control because that would be saying 5.2 is the pain
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point, we're going to do everything we can to defend 5.2. They didn't say that, even though
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they kind of imply it. And it's not money printing, because that happens at the Fed,
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and it's coming from the Treasury General account. But no matter what you want to call it,
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it's intervention by the government with liquidity to defend something before it breaks.
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Right? And that kind of, to me, rhymes with Silicon Valley. But more importantly,
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it's that Bitcoin jumped, liquidated a historic amount of shorts, sent it, you know, that sent
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it from the low 60s, let's call it, to 71, 72. I don't know when this will come out, but then
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pushed it last night over 80, right? 81 something, and then you get a retracement. So you can say
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that it was liquidated shorts that sent price up, but that only tells the story up to about 70 or 71.
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The last 10 grand was a whole lot of people buying because either they're getting FOMO,
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they're getting excited, they're looking forward to another four-year cycle, which could be a
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self-fulfilling prophecy or because they finally went, oh, yeah, Bitcoin is built for this.
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And that's why I want it. And now all of a sudden, Bitcoin is a conversation in the basement trade
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again, only because price is up 20 percent. Bitcoin is cool again. And yeah, I have to
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agree with you. I think that Bitcoin shines the most when it is seen as crisis money. You know,
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the thing you fall back on when you see the rest of the system showing signs of real stress. And
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And we saw that back in 2022 and 2023 with the Silicon Valley bankruptcy.
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And now once again, with the Treasury Department saying, hey, we are very scared about the bond
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market, even with stocks at all time highs.
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And I don't know, maybe we had just won too much over the last two years and got a little
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too fat and happy with the president and the Treasury companies.
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And now we needed something like this to bring us back.
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Yeah, I agree with that.
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And it happens.
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And so listen, I mean, we had our we in this industry, and I will extend that to crypto
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far beyond Bitcoin.
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but let's for the sake of argument, call it one industry in the minds of many. We have
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the unprecedented ability to score own goals at the worst time, right? Or to shoot ourselves in
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the foot for absolutely no reason. And we do it over and over and over again. I would argue that
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this time it was Bitcoin treasury companies. I think I was probably the most unpopular and vocal
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proponent of that theory from the day that they started bubbling up after strategy. I still am a
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fan of strategy. But I've often told the story that I walked into Bitcoin Vegas a year and a half
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ago and was pitched seven of them in the first 10 minutes. And I looked around, I said, there's a
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terrible idea. I sat with Jack Muller. I said, there's a terrible idea. Explain to me why this
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isn't a terrible idea. And they had good answers. And I said, these are going to all end up insolvent.
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What happens? And he says, that's good. We'll just buy them all up. This is right when 21 launched.
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So obviously, that's not exactly what happened, but maybe that is the future.
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But our own goal was hubris and on the backs of the ETFs,
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believing that there was going to be room for 100 leverage bets on Bitcoin
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and that somehow they were going to be worth 20x the value of the assets that they were holding.
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And well, here we are.
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And I'm wrong about a lot of things, but that one just had the spidey senses tingly.
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And I think that is a big part of the story of this drawdown.
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Obviously, Trump being a gratuitous crypto grifter didn't help.
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And there are a number of other things, right?
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I think there was a certain price level at which
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even the most staunch defenders of Bitcoin from day one said,
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can I say bad words?
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Yeah.
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Said, holy shit, I'm fucking rich.
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And said, wow, I'm worth $20 billion in Bitcoin.
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I have kids and maybe I should go sell $10 billion worth of that
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and go live without the rest of the days on a yacht.
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I think that, you know, we saw those historic whale wallets that had never sold selling massively all the way down, you know, into the 60s.
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And the fact is, we got to this point where every bottom signal that's ever existed in previous cycles started to exist.
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And once again, people were too emotional to see them.
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You know, all the worst case scenarios didn't push Bitcoin down further, right?
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What was the worst case scenario of this cycle?
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Michael Saylor will sell Bitcoin.
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What happened when Michael Saylor sold Bitcoin?
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It went up.
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It went up.
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Yeah.
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Right Even if only from 60 to 64 But Bitcoin went up and continued up So I think you know we sitting pretty right now but we need some follow through And just a quick aside did you get a lot of hate for speaking vocally against Bitcoin treasury
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companies? I was, I was like public enemy number one. I have a, I have a very, very strong tendency
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to main character myself for no apparent reason with a Bitcoin maximalist, but.
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Hey, it does good for views, right? It's not even that. I was like, how are you Bitcoin
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maximalist if you're telling us like buy stock. Like I just, I'm sorry. It's true. It's very clear
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that in June, July of 2025, we had really sort of lost the plot, but a good little bear market
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will help you refocus. And now it seems as if we might be exiting this bear market. And of course,
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as you were just saying, the main reason is because the treasury came out and said,
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we're going to start buybacking our debt and we're going to make sure that there's no problems at the
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long end of the curve. Well, when the Trump administration came in, there was a lot of hope
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that the adults were in the room, at least on the finance side, right? That Scott Bessent was this
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guy, a market master who was going to get in there and sort of fix our problems with the debt and the
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treasury situation. We had Elon and Doge and all that sort of melted away. And we are back to square
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one where we're going to have to monetize the debt. Where do you see us in terms of a country,
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the debt situation, $40 trillion being surpassed, and what the cent has to do right now.
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So I was interviewed on Yahoo Finance yesterday. I wish I had the quotes in front of me because I
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pulled them up in advance just in case I got a percent moment. And effectively, one year ago,
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last week, he made this comment that he and President Trump were laser focused on paying
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down the debt. It's kind of the echoes of Doge and fiscal responsibility and all those. And then
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exactly a year and a day later, he just made the comments that $40 trillion is kind of just a
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number. It's not that meaningful. And we are laser focused on growing our way out of the debt
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situation. So we went from, we need to pay this thing down. That's our main directive, which any
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reasonable person who has four brain cells and any understanding of economics would believe.
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And then you have the, oh shit, we're a uniparty and need to print our way out of
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any situation, no matter what, which is what he later came to admit and understand in this
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situation. But very clearly, the United States is in a debt spiral, right? Whether that is
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sustainable for 100 years or 200 years or 10 years, I have no idea. Markets can stay rational
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longer than you can remain solvent. And I've been endlessly impressed with the levers and buttons
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that they can push to keep the party going. But $40 trillion is not just a rounding error.
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It's a serious number.
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When you go up a trillion in five months, we just had, I think, the worst deficit on a monthly basis ever, right?
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The train is only going in one direction, right?
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Nothing stops it, as Lin Alden aptly points out.
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So I think Bissette now is saying what he has to say to prep everybody for a massive infusion of liquidity, right?
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And listen, maybe AI can help them grow their way out of it, but nothing is stopping it.
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And rates have to come down, and they need to refinance the debt at rates comparable to where it's currently financed and not multiple percentage points higher.
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We're at a period now where I believe the debt is the largest line item on the budget, more than the military and entitlements and all of these things, and only growing.
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So you tell me how you grow your way out of that or how you handle that without just endlessly debasing your currency and hoping for the best.
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And by the way, that's how every great empire has ended.
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Let's hope you know different one day.
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Yeah, humans can't help themselves.
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Yeah, humans are getting human, as I often like to say.
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Absolutely.
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And so we've had this brain trust of the Soros School in charge, right?
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We had Drunkenmiller was on top of Besant and Warsh back in the day.
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People forget that he was their boss, even though he's over here like writing AI op-eds about how bad Besant is handling the bond market.
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He was his boss.
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So talk to us about that article that just came out yesterday from Drunkenmiller saying that what Besant is doing is bad.
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And do you think this is good cop, bad cop, kabuki theater?
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What's going on here?
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No, I think if Druckenmiller just is at a point in his life where he can say with or without AI exactly what he feels about what's happening and people are going to listen.
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You know, I should.
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But by the way, as just a total like aside, I don't know if you saw, but Druckenmiller bought a hyperliquid treasury company days before Donald Trump mentioned hyperliquid in a random speech at the White House.
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So, you know, like, I think there's a kind of a circle jerk here of cronyism, whether they agree or disagree on any given thing.
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I think we all know that, you know, Wall Street and the government is a, you know, is a revolving door.
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And so I don't think it's Kabuki theater.
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I think that what Druckenmiller is saying is obvious, right?
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I mean intervention never works over time You know it a Band on a hole in the Titanic Yeah And I mean my question is Basant just came out this week and said that he planning economic D for Iran
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and is going to sanction any country that does any economic business with them. Right. So are they
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doing all these moves in preparation for some crazy economic warfare that they're about to unleash?
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Maybe, but I think they're just really good talking points, you know, and I think that we have a
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incredible knack for wagging the dog, you know, in the United States. And it's like,
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I'm not even a conspiracy theorist by any stretch, but you just assume when there's
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some huge announcement that there's something you should be looking for that they're trying to
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cover up, right? I mean, the Iran war, I've never been popular for my opinions on that,
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the Bitcoin crowd either, but it's nonsensical, right? I mean, the narrative has changed on any
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given day on why it's happening. I think everybody's pretty tired of it. And so they're going to
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continue to try to justify the actions and what's happening there. But yes, I think all of it is
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just, whether it's intentional or not, are just catalysts for the future money printing that
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inevitably is going to have to come. Whether that's to fund the treasury buybacks, whether
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it's to fund the government, whether it's to fight off the debt, whether it's to fund foreign
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wars that we were not supposed to be in, all of that requires a whole lot of money that we don't
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have. Yeah, that it does. And that's what makes Bitcoin shine so much in these moments. And let's
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talk about this move that we just saw, right? Because we were just flatlining around 62K for
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what felt like months. It was two months at least. And now we've had this strong move up.
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And many thought at first that it was just a short squeeze. But you had Matt Hogan on. And of course,
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he talks to lots of institutional investors. And he says the people that are coming in on this
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move are making a multi-year bet. This is not just some quick trade. What's your thoughts on that?
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I agree with that. So it goes back to sort of the mechanics of any big move on Bitcoin that we
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talked about at the beginning, which is usually there's a spark and then there's leverage and
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then you see what happens, right? I'm highly encouraged that after that leverage was flushed
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once again, that we've stayed up, right? That doesn't mean we're not going back down, by the
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way. Like if I put on my trader hat, I started as a trader, charts and everything, I would say
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we're overheated and we should go back and test some levels. Go back to the low 70s, high 60s,
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scare people again, flush out the new enthusiastic longs, reset the market, and then push.
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We need a little more fuel for the fire to push up. But I think that he's correct. And that's the
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point that's worth noting is that you had the first move. So people bought when they saw the
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percent thing. Yes, then you get liquidations and the market is more about what's happening in the
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perpetual swaps that it is about spot. But then we saw our biggest week since the literal all-time
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high in ETF flows, right? I think it was 1.93 billion last week, 1.92, 1.93 billion into Bitcoin
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spot ETFs, of course, like additional into Ethereum and others. So writ large, almost $3
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billion in flows, right? At 2.7, something like that. That is not trading money. Those people
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didn't pile into that trade buying the ETF because they were excited to buy at 75 and exit at 77.
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So I think that he's right. The downside of the self-fulfilling prophecy of the four-year cycle
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or the bear market was that people all of a sudden started waiting for this magic date
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or event for them to get the confidence that they could buy again. Well, it topped in October,
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and if we look in the past, it can't go up until October, so I have until October.
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When does the market ever reward the crowd?
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So I think we preempted that.
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And the people who are smart said,
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well, I don't want to miss it.
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So buying at 76 or 77 here,
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if I'm willing to hold until 2027 or eight or nine,
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is probably a better move than hoping I get to buy again in the 40s.
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Interestingly, on that same show,
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I had Matt Hogan in the morning on Friday,
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and he talked about that.
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And then I had my friend Jason Williams on the back half of the show,
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going parabolic. He was like, you know, the antithesis of Matt Hogan. And he said, I was wrong.
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You know, you don't hear many people say very often, he said, I was short Bitcoin. He said,
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and by short Bitcoin, I don't mean with leverage. He means that I had converted,
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I'd sold a bunch, I was in cash, I was buying other things. I thought we were going lower,
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but I bought at 78 when it went back up because I don't care if it's 78 or 67,
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I think it's going way up for a very long time. Even if it comes back down, I'll keep buying.
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Right. And I think that that reflects probably the view of a lot of people. They were waiting
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for the cycle to start. And now you have a big move on volume over key levels, and it's time to
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start thinking that that might be the case. Sure, it could fake out, but something changed.
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Yeah, yeah.
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There's definitely a huge vibe shift going on.
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And when it comes to the four-year cycle,
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I mean, the proponents were so right
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for the last 10 months.
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Like Ben Cowan was spot on,
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like literally calling it.
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I don't know why he did so much shit
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for being the most right person on planet Earth,
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but they can't handle it.
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And by the way, he's even said, like, I would start buying.
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This is not the time to short anymore.
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Like, it will ramp up.
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So even if he's quote-unquote wrong because it's August and not October, he's right.
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Yeah, he said the second half of the midterm year is when you start reaccumulating.
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And we are there, and he has been.
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So the one thing that he does bring up is that usually in a midterm year, there is a
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stock market correction come September, October between 10% to 20%.
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And if the stock market was to go down that much, do you think that Bitcoin could hold
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up?
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I think it could hold up relative.
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So, you know, but like, listen,
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what if we kind of chill here in the 70s for a while
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and then the stock market kind of corrects
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and we pop back into the high 60s
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and people say it's over?
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That's still, to me, is healthy price action for Bitcoin,
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you know, for the coming months.
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That said, like, you know, history does not need to repeat.
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It doesn't even need to rhyme.
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You know, I think he was right about the four-year cycle.
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We'll see if the next cycle follows on the way up, right?
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I mean, to be right about the four-year cycle, we're going to have to be right about it going up next time.
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So let's hope that he's right.
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You know, because now anybody who wants to hate on him should be very much in his camp
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and supportive of the idea that we're going to go back up, right?
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But yeah, I think that Bitcoin has in history many times shown divergent strength.
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I'm a big fan of it being generally an uncorrelated asset.
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And I've said that for, you know, decades, even as it sometimes takes a random walk in the park with other,
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not decades, obviously, for a decade, that takes a random walk in the park with other assets.
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But you can't sometimes be gold and sometimes be stocks and sometimes not. That's just uncorrelated.
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And so like anyone, the correlation bros, I guess, who still continue to argue that if the stock
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market goes down, Bitcoin will have to go down. And how come Bitcoin was able to go down for the
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last nine months while everything else went up? That's an uncorrelated asset. So yeah, it'll be
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really convenient if it joins the party at some random time. But it's been uncorrelated largely
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for a very long time here. And I don't see just because the stock market goes down that Bitcoin
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would have to drop with it. And everybody talks about Bitcoin after it's gone up. But I think the
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real story of this summer is its resilience. All the negative news it's been able to shrug off.
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And the big news that hit our community so hard was, of course, the cold card exploit
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over $100 million worth of Bitcoin was swiped
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from people who thought that they had
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the most secure hardware wallet on the market.
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You've been very vocal in the aftermath of all this,
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saying, hey, I understand self-custody,
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but if you expect me to have an armed guard at my door
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just so I can keep my Bitcoin on a hardware wallet at home,
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this doesn't make sense.
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So what's your thinking when it comes to self-custody?
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So A, I have had an armed guard at my door
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many times in my history
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and have had to travel with security
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and all those things just because I'm a public person
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in this space and have had credible reason to do so.
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So first of all, this is not for everyone.
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And in hindsight, sometimes I question whether, you know,
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the risk was worth the reward of being a public person in this space.
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I think at this point, it's probably a little bit better.
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But I think kind of what I alluded to was,
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it's one thing to be your own bank.
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It's another thing to accept that being your own bank
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means also being your own bank security, right?
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And I don't think that people realize
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until the increase in wrench attacks and the data breaches and all those things, especially in France,
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that that becomes a serious consideration, right? So I have mixed views now, being honest,
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on self-custody. So at the core, I obviously believe in self-custody, right? The problem is
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that I used to believe that self-custody eliminated counterparty risk, which was the
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reason to not keep your money on exchanges. And if your counterparty is Coldcard who needs you to,
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you know, roll magic dice 4,000 times to increase your entropy and get your magic Charizard or
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whatever the fuck they're doing over there, because I have no idea. That was so beyond me anyways.
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Or that like you buy a wallet and all of a sudden it comes with a criminal at the door with your data your phone number your address and all of those things You trusting counterparties once again And we had 250 people data leaked in one week between Trezor SafePal and Bits
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of Gold, which I'd, by the way, never heard of, but apparently had 200,000 customers'
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data to leak, right?
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Nobody wants that, right?
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So I think that I hear people scream, and I would say the same thing, like, but multisig
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is still safe, right?
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And I use multisig and like I have a, you know, geographical scavenger hunt for my wife and kids if I die that they'll never probably accomplish because it's too complicated.
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Nobody wants to do that.
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You know, I do it because I believe in it and because I have to take my safety very seriously.
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But nobody wants to do that.
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Right.
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So, like, I can see the argument.
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I would never tell people to do it.
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I can see the argument with exchange security in 2026 versus what it was in 2017 or 18 when I started.
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Right?
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If you're using a YubiKey and that YubiKey is stored somewhere and you have some sort of video face identification that's required for you to make a serious withdrawal, like things like that.
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And they could be an insured custodian.
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Like, I mean, Coinbase Prime is where the ETFs are basically custodying their assets.
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Is that better for you or the safe in your house?
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I don't know the answer.
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right? But I can see why people might debate that and kick it around, you know, and decide what they
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want to do. And then there's the inevitable elephant in the room, which is that for people who
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think they believe in Bitcoin, but actually realize it's more about the number going up,
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why not just buy an ETF and call it a day, right? So that's not what I want to do.
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But I can understand if someone's just like, I want Bitcoin to be 5% to 10% of my net worth
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because of the Sharpe ratio, which by the way,
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Bitcoin maxis are telling them at the same time
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that they're screaming at them that they need to self-custody
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and it's freedom money, right?
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I think we just need a new PR department or something
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because I think it's very confusing to most people.
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And I could see how as a new entrant into the space,
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you wouldn't want to touch self-custody.
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And I can't argue with the fact that you should.
403
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I'm not sure you should from the very beginning.
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Yeah, I think a lot of the purity tests
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of the last couple of years were buried over the last month. And one conclusion I've come to in the
406
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wake of all this is that maybe having all your Bitcoin in one basket is probably not the best
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decision. I believe completely in self-custody and that you should be able to move with your
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money at any time to any place. But at the same time, that existential just single point of failure
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that we saw in cold card made me rethink maybe splitting it up amongst different things might be
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the way to go. So many, many reasonable conclusion. You know, you can have some freedom money and you
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can have maybe some in an ETF and some on an exchange and some on another random wallet.
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Yeah. You know, that's a hard sales pitch. Grandma, should I get Bitcoin? Yes, but you should,
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you know, put it in three multi-sigs, a, you know, one ledger, some on Coinbase custody,
414
00:29:06,508 --> 00:29:11,148
and then buy some iBit and you'll be fine. It's a hard pitch. I agree. I completely agree.
415
00:29:11,788 --> 00:29:15,068
And that's my job. I'm trying to get people to understand Bitcoin.
416
00:29:15,068 --> 00:29:18,108
It's the same. Listen, I've been shamed more times than most
417
00:29:18,988 --> 00:29:23,548
in the industry, but at this point, I'm humble enough to say, but either I was wrong or I don't
418
00:29:23,548 --> 00:29:28,668
know. And right now when it comes to custody, there's times I was wrong and I definitely don't
419
00:29:28,668 --> 00:29:33,628
know. Listen, I was one of Voyager's bigger creditors. So I don't know if I'm the guy to
420
00:29:33,628 --> 00:29:38,648
tell you where to store your Bitcoin. Yeah, you only learn by getting burned, it seems like,
421
00:29:38,808 --> 00:29:45,068
in this world of Bitcoin and crypto. So the longer you can survive, the better. I guess that's the
422
00:29:45,068 --> 00:29:49,808
rule of the game here. The saddest part is that, you know, once again, like with FTX and others,
423
00:29:51,708 --> 00:29:57,068
inevitably, all those, the money is lost at the bottom. And then those people get to watch the
424
00:29:57,068 --> 00:30:01,488
price accelerate and they don't get to participate. It happens every time. It's terrible.
425
00:30:02,268 --> 00:30:07,788
So then let's talk about your journey a bit, because, I mean, when you first came on the
426
00:30:07,788 --> 00:30:11,668
scene in the early 2020s, you talked a lot about altcoins.
427
00:30:12,008 --> 00:30:17,468
But this May, you put out a nine-minute video, your sort of Bitcoin manifesto, why you Bitcoin.
428
00:30:17,908 --> 00:30:23,188
And I think it's one of the best short presentations to show to anyone as to why they should at
429
00:30:23,188 --> 00:30:24,408
least show interest in Bitcoin.
430
00:30:25,028 --> 00:30:28,748
Talk to us about the making of that video and your change of thinking around digital
431
00:30:28,748 --> 00:30:30,148
assets over the last couple of years.
432
00:30:30,148 --> 00:30:40,048
I would love to say I had a plan, but that was more of a rant that went viral with the back half of a show on Yahoo when we kind of said, scrap the news and just talk.
433
00:30:40,668 --> 00:30:45,708
Right. So, you know, I had thought about it quite a bit.
434
00:30:46,688 --> 00:30:49,908
And but, you know, we just kind of did it.
435
00:30:50,728 --> 00:30:52,768
And as you said, it sort of went viral.
436
00:30:52,768 --> 00:30:58,208
So I think that the reason that that resonated with people was because it
437
00:30:58,208 --> 00:31:03,868
eliminated all the holier than thou maxi bullshit isms that we've been trying
438
00:31:03,868 --> 00:31:07,008
to sell people on for so long, the preaching.
439
00:31:07,628 --> 00:31:25,064
And I think I addressed how I felt and why I felt it And I think that why it resonated with people So I can say that I planned some grand thing to go viral and tell people why I just told people why At that moment
440
00:31:25,184 --> 00:31:29,464
I was feeling it. And I think that that resonates even stronger when we talk about percent and the
441
00:31:29,464 --> 00:31:34,944
bonds and the nonsense of fiscal monetary policy. But at the core, kind of the story I told for
442
00:31:34,944 --> 00:31:40,564
for those who missed it was, yeah, I was, you know, I'm almost 50, you know, I'll be 50 this
443
00:31:40,564 --> 00:31:44,684
year. So I was there for the great recession and the great financial crisis and through all these,
444
00:31:45,084 --> 00:31:50,824
and I was a really slow learner, right? So I felt it the first time when the bailouts of the banks
445
00:31:50,824 --> 00:31:56,104
came and I said, what the hell, man? Like, where's this money coming from? Oh, us, right? Why, why are
446
00:31:56,104 --> 00:32:01,144
none of these people in jail? You know, and then you kind of forget about it. And then COVID happened
447
00:32:01,144 --> 00:32:05,164
and they print 60% or 80% of all the money
448
00:32:05,164 --> 00:32:07,484
that's ever existed in the history of mankind
449
00:32:07,484 --> 00:32:08,844
in a matter of 18 months.
450
00:32:09,584 --> 00:32:11,184
And that's when it really hit.
451
00:32:11,344 --> 00:32:13,864
But mind you, I've already been and owned Bitcoin
452
00:32:13,864 --> 00:32:15,164
for 40 years at that point.
453
00:32:16,324 --> 00:32:19,184
So yeah, I said it and I talked about it,
454
00:32:19,284 --> 00:32:20,964
but to your point, I was kind of a trader
455
00:32:20,964 --> 00:32:23,704
and I was really into altcoins and such as well.
456
00:32:23,784 --> 00:32:24,744
I still believed in Bitcoin,
457
00:32:25,124 --> 00:32:27,184
but that's when it really, really hit
458
00:32:27,184 --> 00:32:29,144
that this was fundamentally broken.
459
00:32:29,144 --> 00:32:34,004
So I was not a like, read the white paper and I get it guy.
460
00:32:34,364 --> 00:32:41,304
I was a lose a whole lot of money a bunch of times on a bunch of stupid ideas until I finally got it kind of guy.
461
00:32:41,624 --> 00:32:46,504
Like what you just said, like I had to suffer it and I had to suffer it multiple times.
462
00:32:46,584 --> 00:32:48,264
I wasn't even a one lesson kind of guy.
463
00:32:48,924 --> 00:32:49,404
Right.
464
00:32:49,404 --> 00:32:59,164
And so for me, it's not as much as it would pull my maximalism card because I don't really identify there.
465
00:32:59,844 --> 00:33:03,184
It's not that I think altcoins are inherently bad at all.
466
00:33:03,564 --> 00:33:04,864
In fact, I still own some.
467
00:33:04,984 --> 00:33:07,004
I certainly own the dust of some from last cycles.
468
00:33:07,104 --> 00:33:15,344
And I can see why now in a world where you can start to value them like a company or utility that maybe you would invest in some.
469
00:33:15,344 --> 00:33:19,264
But I view Bitcoin as an entirely different market than altcoins.
470
00:33:19,404 --> 00:33:26,384
I've been saying this for years. It's the same to me. If you're a gold bug, I don't think you
471
00:33:26,384 --> 00:33:31,164
would have the same visceral reaction about someone buying Nvidia stock as Bitcoiners do
472
00:33:31,164 --> 00:33:36,304
when someone buys Solana. Because they're just entirely different markets to me.
473
00:33:37,144 --> 00:33:43,984
So I can see the argument for some altcoins. That said, 99% of them were outright gratuitous
474
00:33:43,984 --> 00:33:49,024
scams. And I bought into it like hook, line, and sinker because I was a part of the FOMO with
475
00:33:49,024 --> 00:33:52,664
everyone else. I bought a bunch of stuff. It's going to change the world. It went up massively.
476
00:33:52,824 --> 00:33:59,104
And by the way, I lost all the money. So I was wrong. The market proved me wrong. Price proved
477
00:33:59,104 --> 00:34:04,224
me wrong. My ideas proved me wrong. And I'm a strong believer in strong opinions loosely held.
478
00:34:04,324 --> 00:34:09,524
If the market and facts change, so does my opinion, no matter how high conviction I had.
479
00:34:10,284 --> 00:34:16,524
So I think that I've just come to the point where it's regardless of if these things are scams or
480
00:34:16,524 --> 00:34:22,924
what this is or how you define any of it, like the easiest thing for my personal situation and
481
00:34:22,924 --> 00:34:30,784
my lifestyle and for my belief that I want to rage against the machine in my own little way,
482
00:34:31,324 --> 00:34:37,524
just buy Bitcoin and chill. Like, first of all, as an investment, there's no AI stock I would
483
00:34:37,524 --> 00:34:44,204
rather buy at its current price than Bitcoin was at 65. Right? So Bitcoin at 60, take all of that
484
00:34:44,204 --> 00:34:50,284
out. If I'm just an investor, Bitcoin at 65 is like a 50% off discount in my mind while everything
485
00:34:50,284 --> 00:34:55,144
else is skyrocketing. So that seems obvious. So nothing else I'd want to buy. So I just buy Bitcoin.
486
00:34:55,644 --> 00:35:02,064
If I want to feel like I'm doing something other than what everybody else is doing and that I'm not
487
00:35:02,064 --> 00:35:06,184
buying into the system and the government and all those things, I buy Bitcoin because it makes me
488
00:35:06,184 --> 00:35:11,144
feel better. If I feel like things could go really bad in the future, even if I'm not a doomer and
489
00:35:11,144 --> 00:35:17,164
it's only a 0.1 of 0.1% chance. I want to know that I own Bitcoin so that I have an exit for it.
490
00:35:17,204 --> 00:35:24,644
So every part of me aligns with just buy Bitcoin and do nothing else. And listen, I'm a dad.
491
00:35:25,384 --> 00:35:30,544
I work hard and I have two young kids and I have a wife and I love spending time with them. I value
492
00:35:30,544 --> 00:35:36,324
that much more than any asset that I own. And it happens to be that buying Bitcoin and not thinking
493
00:35:36,324 --> 00:35:40,104
about it aligns much better with all of that too. I don't need to stare at charts all day.
494
00:35:40,104 --> 00:35:44,264
I don't need to figure out if I exited hype at the right price before it crashed,
495
00:35:44,324 --> 00:35:48,744
or if Zcash happened to have minted another billion tokens that I don't know about,
496
00:35:48,824 --> 00:35:52,824
or if I'm going to get exploited on some layer one that I've owned for five years
497
00:35:52,824 --> 00:35:56,404
because I forgot that nobody is literally doing security on that chain anymore.
498
00:35:57,104 --> 00:36:00,444
It's just so much easier to just buy Bitcoin and do nothing.
499
00:36:02,024 --> 00:36:06,004
And that's not because I think I'll make the most money on it.
500
00:36:06,104 --> 00:36:10,004
It's because it is my money and I don't need to think about it.
501
00:36:10,104 --> 00:36:15,984
Right? Like once you start sort of denominating your life in Bitcoin or thinking about Bitcoin as
502
00:36:15,984 --> 00:36:21,364
your savings or as your money, it's what money is supposed to be, which is a place that you can
503
00:36:21,364 --> 00:36:34,660
store your time and your value and your energy And it will still be there in 10 years as opposed to fighting against a tide of depreciation where you have to somehow become this professional investor just to keep up
504
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,120
Like the very notion, I think I said this in the rant, I honestly haven't watched it,
505
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:43,800
so I don't remember what I said. But the notion that they're going to debase your
506
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:50,900
currency, which is your time and your energy at 3%, 4%, 5%, 10% a year. So you need to somehow
507
00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:54,120
either get a second job as a professional investor
508
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,940
to make 10% on what you have just so you don't lose money,
509
00:36:58,140 --> 00:37:02,340
or you have to pay somebody a percentage of everything you make,
510
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:03,680
everything you've ever made,
511
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,460
just so that they can do the job of trying to get you to keep up.
512
00:37:07,460 --> 00:37:10,320
And by the way, 75% of them underperform the S&P.
513
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,280
So good luck finding an active manager who can actually do that job.
514
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,920
And you realize, I could just buy this one thing.
515
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,900
and zoom out because it's not going to hold my value in a week necessarily.
516
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,460
And my money will do what my money is supposed to do,
517
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,420
which is that I can put it here and it'll be worth as much or more
518
00:37:32,420 --> 00:37:34,060
in 10 years when I need it.
519
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,840
And by the way, that means eventually you might have to sell something.
520
00:37:36,980 --> 00:37:38,720
I hate to say that to people. It's okay.
521
00:37:40,060 --> 00:37:43,340
And so I think it took me a really long time
522
00:37:43,340 --> 00:37:46,700
to have all of those conclusions consolidate
523
00:37:46,700 --> 00:37:53,240
and to realize that my time and energy were worth more than whatever effort I needed to
524
00:37:53,240 --> 00:38:00,860
make money. And I could just, you know, denominate my kind of worth in this.
525
00:38:01,100 --> 00:38:06,360
And I mean my worth beyond even my financial worth, right? And denominate it in this one
526
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,780
asset and go about the rest of my life. So just auto buy Bitcoin, chill and call it a day.
527
00:38:11,940 --> 00:38:16,040
That was a very long winded way to answer your question. I'm sorry, but you made me think about
528
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:34,840
That was awesome. That was another grade A rant, my friend. Great job there. And I want to thank you for your work in this space. The conviction that you've showed in this bear market, you were very clear saying, oh, this is a great buy. I'm happy to pick up Bitcoin at 60K. You guys are crazy if you think this is scary.
529
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,880
and I think that conviction is so palpable
530
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,820
from someone who truly believes it like you
531
00:38:40,820 --> 00:38:43,240
and you are reaching a lot of people these days.
532
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:44,920
You've got a show on Yahoo Finance,
533
00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:47,480
you stream all the time, you've got huge guests
534
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,100
and I think that you're reaching a lot of people
535
00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:52,100
outside of the Bitcoin maximalist circles
536
00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:56,160
and for them to get a breadth of your conviction in Bitcoin
537
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:57,740
after years of being in this space
538
00:38:57,740 --> 00:38:59,700
I think is doing a whole lot for the space
539
00:38:59,700 --> 00:39:02,640
and any Bitcoiners who have crap to talk about you,
540
00:39:02,940 --> 00:39:03,900
I'm not about it.
541
00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:05,280
Listen, I've earned some of it, right?
542
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,020
Like if you signed up for Voyager,
543
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,840
because I kept saying that I was keeping my money on Voyager,
544
00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:10,640
it's my mistake.
545
00:39:10,820 --> 00:39:14,280
But unfortunately, in a world where you actually share
546
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,300
what you're doing and you're wrong,
547
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,580
people might lose money.
548
00:39:17,580 --> 00:39:23,280
So I don't begrudge anybody who looks back at past behavior
549
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,020
and says, wow, I wouldn't want to follow that.
550
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:25,780
I can't, it's so funny.
551
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:26,820
You'll go on X.
552
00:39:27,020 --> 00:39:27,440
I don't block.
553
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,540
There was a time where I had all these people blocked.
554
00:39:29,660 --> 00:39:32,180
I unblocked everybody I ever had blocked on X years ago.
555
00:39:32,180 --> 00:39:36,120
But every once in a while, I'll go to respond to a tweet and it's blanked out.
556
00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:37,360
And I'm like, oh, this person has me blocked.
557
00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:41,060
They're like, what are you going to do?
558
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,880
And it happens actually quite regularly.
559
00:39:45,260 --> 00:39:47,920
And it's funny, but I think people can change.
560
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,660
I think people, not even change, I think you just evolve.
561
00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:56,960
And I think I'm very transparent about the fact that I came in for very different reasons
562
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,380
and doing very different things than I'm doing now.
563
00:39:59,380 --> 00:40:04,540
right and so i would just encourage not me specifically but you know like people change
564
00:40:04,540 --> 00:40:08,920
so give people a chance and listen to what they're saying and see what they're doing now right and so
565
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:15,140
my like entire ethos is mainstream adoption of of bitcoin right i talk about stable coins and
566
00:40:15,140 --> 00:40:20,080
i cover the whole industry i never tell people to really buy anything other than other than
567
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,100
bitcoin and like you said very vocally telling people to buy bitcoin in the 60s
568
00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:28,000
with very high conviction, even if it goes down.
569
00:40:28,660 --> 00:40:36,600
And so now, luckily, I have the audience or the mouthpiece
570
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,120
where I can continue saying it.
571
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,140
And I say, I'm pretty gratuitous about it.
572
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,960
I was on Yahoo Finance yesterday, not on my show.
573
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:45,440
They had me on randomly as a guest.
574
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,260
And she was kind of like,
575
00:40:47,780 --> 00:40:49,980
well, it's never getting back to 125,000.
576
00:40:50,220 --> 00:40:51,260
So how do you tell people?
577
00:40:51,260 --> 00:40:55,020
And I was like, 25, 125,000 is a pit stop to a million and 5 million tens.
578
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:55,780
She was like, really?
579
00:40:57,500 --> 00:40:57,900
Yes.
580
00:40:58,460 --> 00:41:01,060
So I luckily can reach.
581
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,480
I don't want, I'm not saying, I love the idea that Bitcoin Maximus would follow me
582
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,860
or that people who've been crypto forever would listen.
583
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,440
I welcome all, but that's not who my content is for anymore.
584
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:13,160
Yeah.
585
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:18,400
My content is for new people who are thinking about it and who are in the mainstream
586
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,880
and maybe just want to start with 2% of their money in Bitcoin.
587
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:21,760
I think that's fine.
588
00:41:22,140 --> 00:41:23,880
And I'm not going to yell at them about their custody.
589
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,060
And I'm not going to do all those things I did in the past.
590
00:41:26,380 --> 00:41:29,240
I'm just trying to get them, you know, and educate them that we're here.
591
00:41:30,180 --> 00:41:32,480
Well, you're certainly reaching a lot of people.
592
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:36,140
What the impetus of this conversation we're having right now was the fact that I was at
593
00:41:36,140 --> 00:41:39,960
my mom's house in New Jersey and on her Amazon Alexa, there was a.
594
00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:43,677
ad for your show. And the question on the bottom was, what is better, Bitcoin or gold?
595
00:41:43,877 --> 00:41:47,657
Right. And so you're reaching all these boomers on their Amazon Alexa's. Go figure.
596
00:41:47,917 --> 00:41:50,857
It's a... I'm not doing it by telling them that they're stupid for owning gold.
597
00:41:51,517 --> 00:41:58,297
There you go. There you go. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, one person that you do platform a lot who
598
00:41:58,297 --> 00:42:03,017
says you're stupid for owning Bitcoin is Mike McGlone, right? He is a Bloomberg analyst,
599
00:42:03,017 --> 00:42:07,997
and he's been calling for $10,000 Bitcoin for a long time now throughout this whole entire bear
600
00:42:07,997 --> 00:42:13,157
market. You have him on once a week. Has any of his arguments ever resonated with you?
601
00:42:14,197 --> 00:42:23,137
Oh, yes, absolutely. Which is A, if you think that every show that you watch should delicately
602
00:42:23,137 --> 00:42:30,977
protect your very, you know, very delicate echo chamber, I'm sorry. I'm not for you. I actually
603
00:42:30,977 --> 00:42:35,597
like the contrarian opinions and I like to listen to other people's opinions, even if I vehemently
604
00:42:35,597 --> 00:42:38,877
disagree with them. People are always like, how do you still have them on the show? I'm like,
605
00:42:38,937 --> 00:42:43,777
because A, it makes for great arguments. And B, it'll keep you all grounded, even if you think
606
00:42:43,777 --> 00:42:50,817
it's stupid, right? That things can happen. But Mike is generally right. I say this about Schiff
607
00:42:50,817 --> 00:42:55,517
too, actually, who I've quote unquote platformed quite a bit. If you eliminate the word Bitcoin
608
00:42:55,517 --> 00:43:00,777
from your arguments with Peter Schiff, you'll find you agree on 99.9% of things.
609
00:43:00,777 --> 00:43:06,217
the only place he stumbles at the finish line as to which asset to own because of the behavior of
610
00:43:06,217 --> 00:43:13,237
the government and institutions that you agree on right so i i think that mike has incredible
611
00:43:13,237 --> 00:43:18,897
knowledge of markets more in his pinky nail than i will have in my entire body for the rest of my
612
00:43:18,897 --> 00:43:26,897
life from the trading pits in decades and i think that he's right mostly about the way things should
613
00:43:26,897 --> 00:43:31,057
be happening in the economy. He's just wrong, in my opinion, about where Bitcoin fits into it.
614
00:43:31,457 --> 00:43:36,397
That's it. And so I think there's a lot of valuable lessons in someone who's been here
615
00:43:36,397 --> 00:43:41,537
forever, who's watched every cycle, who's seen every boom and bust, who can tell you about debt
616
00:43:41,537 --> 00:43:47,357
to GDP and stock market and all these metrics and why there should be a correction and all these
617
00:43:47,357 --> 00:43:53,077
things. I just kind of tune out the Bitcoin part at this point because I've listened, I've absorbed,
618
00:43:53,077 --> 00:43:59,777
and I disagree. And if it goes to 10 grand, who knows? I mean, listen, he's been very right since
619
00:43:59,777 --> 00:44:05,377
126, but he was also very wrong on the way up, continuing to say it would go down. But he's been
620
00:44:05,377 --> 00:44:10,937
right about a lot of things. He nailed oil. And everyone was screaming for $150 oil. He was saying,
621
00:44:10,937 --> 00:44:16,537
60, 50 bucks. He nailed the top of silver, like a lot of these other things. I just don't think he
622
00:44:16,537 --> 00:44:23,597
really gets Bitcoin at this point. The funny thing is I met Mike when we were co-guests on a panel,
623
00:44:23,597 --> 00:44:28,217
a CoinDesk or something like that. It had to be seven or eight years ago, and he was the biggest
624
00:44:28,217 --> 00:44:38,397
Bitcoin bull ever and in the face of mainstream hate for the asset. People don't remember,
625
00:44:38,517 --> 00:44:44,617
he was the contrarian side on mainstream media pushing Bitcoin up. He's the guy who proposed the
626
00:44:44,617 --> 00:44:46,517
Bloomberg Galaxy Crypto Index.
627
00:44:47,557 --> 00:44:51,777
You know, like the reason we even hear about Bitcoin and stuff on Bloomberg is because of
628
00:44:51,777 --> 00:44:54,117
him and his bullishness for a very long time.
629
00:44:54,557 --> 00:44:57,077
And listen, it's not like just Bitcoin.
630
00:44:57,077 --> 00:45:01,357
He's also really bearish on gold, which he was very bullish on for the last multiple
631
00:45:01,357 --> 00:45:02,797
decades, you know?
632
00:45:02,917 --> 00:45:05,797
So I think he's a very, very valuable voice.
633
00:45:05,957 --> 00:45:11,017
I think that, you know, he's just become like the WWE heel of the industry, you know, him
634
00:45:11,017 --> 00:45:14,417
and Schiff, and maybe he plays into that a little bit, you know?
635
00:45:14,417 --> 00:45:19,417
and it suits him. But I will continue to have him on because I think he has incredible knowledge
636
00:45:19,417 --> 00:45:24,337
and a very valuable opinion. I agree with pretty much everything you just said there. And he's a
637
00:45:24,337 --> 00:45:30,677
good sport about it, right? He gets a lot of... Beating? Yeah. Dave Weisberger is constantly
638
00:45:30,677 --> 00:45:35,937
taking the whip to him. But the funny thing is, you know, like they kind of made some bets on the
639
00:45:35,937 --> 00:45:39,877
show over the years and Dave big time won the first one. I don't remember what it was, how high
640
00:45:39,877 --> 00:45:43,897
Bitcoin would go or something. But then a year and a half ago, Mike said they were looking at the
641
00:45:43,897 --> 00:45:48,697
Bitcoin to gold ratio. And Mike said, I'll bet you in a year that gold has outperformed Bitcoin.
642
00:45:48,857 --> 00:45:55,117
And we all thought he was literally insane. And he smashed that bet. Smashed it. Gold annihilated
643
00:45:55,117 --> 00:46:01,137
Bitcoin from that point on. So it's not like he's been totally wrong. Yes. Well, another guest you've
644
00:46:01,137 --> 00:46:05,597
had on your show recently is Jeff Booth. And from the conversation, it sounds like you guys have
645
00:46:05,597 --> 00:46:11,617
talked a bunch and could be considered friends. And when you talk to Jeff, it's very clear that
646
00:46:11,617 --> 00:46:17,197
He has a completely different outlook on Bitcoin and the world's financial markets than the average person, right?
647
00:46:17,497 --> 00:46:22,417
And it does seem as if you've sort of reached this level of zen when it comes to Bitcoin.
648
00:46:22,417 --> 00:46:24,317
You don't want to trade anymore.
649
00:46:24,517 --> 00:46:26,097
You're happy to accumulate at low prices.
650
00:46:26,557 --> 00:46:29,657
And you have full faith that this thing is going to work out in the end.
651
00:46:30,457 --> 00:46:38,297
For the average person who hasn't been exposed to Jeff's worth, how would you explain his worldview to the average person?
652
00:46:38,537 --> 00:46:50,339
God I would be remiss to even do it I would say just read the book It doesn take very long and it will change your life The Price of Tomorrow by Jeff Booth is one of the books that sent me very much down the
653
00:46:50,339 --> 00:46:56,499
Bitcoin rabbit hole, but more because I understood, once again, the problems with monetary and
654
00:46:56,499 --> 00:47:07,119
fiscal policy. And it really illuminates how corrupt and broken the current system is,
655
00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:08,739
and it makes it so obvious.
656
00:47:09,019 --> 00:47:11,499
And it's without talking about Bitcoin, right?
657
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:13,779
So Bitcoin may have been the final conclusion,
658
00:47:13,999 --> 00:47:17,779
but it's a rounding error in page count in the book, right?
659
00:47:17,939 --> 00:47:21,879
And so I think, you know, Jeff's main idea, obviously,
660
00:47:22,059 --> 00:47:24,019
is that deflation causes abundance,
661
00:47:24,019 --> 00:47:27,599
which flies in the face of everything that you could ever learn
662
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:30,399
in an economic tech book or from watching,
663
00:47:30,539 --> 00:47:33,999
but that the entire point of the system is to debase your currency,
664
00:47:34,179 --> 00:47:35,599
steal your time, and steal your money.
665
00:47:36,439 --> 00:47:39,839
And he uses great examples, obviously, through technology.
666
00:47:40,439 --> 00:47:43,299
And I think that right now, when you watch what's happening with AI,
667
00:47:44,039 --> 00:47:46,319
it becomes more abundantly clear how right he is.
668
00:47:46,439 --> 00:47:51,099
But he often talks about, look at the price of TVs or computers,
669
00:47:51,099 --> 00:47:54,899
how much those things cost for a much simpler version of it.
670
00:47:54,999 --> 00:47:58,379
But as obviously the technology improved, the price naturally came down.
671
00:47:58,679 --> 00:48:01,619
And if you were living in a system where your currency held its value,
672
00:48:02,419 --> 00:48:05,459
what would have cost you 10 Bitcoin is 1 Bitcoin or whatever.
673
00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:11,619
you know? And so look at your iPhone, right? He talks about it a lot in the book. Like you used
674
00:48:11,619 --> 00:48:16,559
to own a calculator and own a flashlight and own all these things. Now it's all in one simple,
675
00:48:17,039 --> 00:48:20,739
relatively cheap device when you consider everything you're getting. And the price of
676
00:48:20,739 --> 00:48:25,819
that device should naturally come down if you were living in a system without inflation and
677
00:48:25,819 --> 00:48:33,199
without currency debasement. So all I can say is read it and the world will make so much more
678
00:48:33,199 --> 00:48:39,719
sense to you. And you'll probably, your natural inclination will be to fight the instinct to
679
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:45,619
agree with it. But with time, it will be impossible to ignore. And maybe or maybe not,
680
00:48:45,699 --> 00:48:50,619
you'll come to Bitcoin as the conclusion to it. But I think more importantly, just understanding
681
00:48:50,619 --> 00:48:55,819
the system. See, I had read the book and then like in the context of all that COVID and everything
682
00:48:55,819 --> 00:48:59,979
that we talked about before, it was just the perfect timing for me as I've continued to reread
683
00:48:59,979 --> 00:49:03,799
it and go over it and then more conversations with him. But yeah, he was one of the first people
684
00:49:03,799 --> 00:49:08,099
saying to me, like, Scott, we're not friends yet, but
685
00:49:08,099 --> 00:49:12,139
what you're doing is wrong. And he's like very calmly,
686
00:49:12,339 --> 00:49:15,879
you know, because Jeff's not going to preach to you, you need to take your own path. He'd be like, you don't want to be
687
00:49:15,879 --> 00:49:19,279
exposed to all these things. Like you're taking on extra risk with
688
00:49:19,279 --> 00:49:23,899
chasing yield with your assets. Like blah, blah, blah. He watched it
689
00:49:23,899 --> 00:49:27,899
happen and I would go to him and say you were right and we'd have another conversation
690
00:49:27,899 --> 00:49:34,499
And, you know, he's like the Zen, the most calm, you know, nonjudgmental human being in the world.
691
00:49:34,499 --> 00:49:37,559
And he just watched it happen and kind of talked me through it over time.
692
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:41,079
It's, you know, you just got to read the book.
693
00:49:41,519 --> 00:49:42,499
Got to read the book.
694
00:49:42,739 --> 00:49:46,219
It came out in 21, I believe, probably tomorrow.
695
00:49:46,799 --> 00:49:48,699
And in it, he mentions AI.
696
00:49:48,899 --> 00:49:52,339
And now we're finally living in this explosion of artificial intelligence.
697
00:49:52,819 --> 00:49:55,719
From your look as both a trader and a user,
698
00:49:55,919 --> 00:49:58,159
how are you seeing AI in the back half of 26?
699
00:49:58,659 --> 00:50:02,699
Well, I don't even know how to handicap it as a trader, to be quite honest.
700
00:50:02,699 --> 00:50:06,959
So all I know is that they're going to spend a shit ton of money to build it out.
701
00:50:07,219 --> 00:50:10,399
So it would be hard to call it dead now.
702
00:50:10,999 --> 00:50:13,119
I think the market is interesting, right?
703
00:50:13,159 --> 00:50:17,919
There was this week not that long ago where both Meta and Microsoft reported earnings.
704
00:50:18,759 --> 00:50:21,919
And they both had this extreme increase in CapEx spending.
705
00:50:22,339 --> 00:50:27,539
on AI, which a lot of people like Jordy Visser are pointing to as kind of the new money printing
706
00:50:27,539 --> 00:50:31,319
and stimulus, right? Just from private companies instead of public entities, which I think is
707
00:50:31,319 --> 00:50:34,999
interesting framing. But Microsoft went up massively and Meta went down massively.
708
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:40,539
And the reason was because Microsoft was more infrastructure. And I think the market could
709
00:50:40,539 --> 00:50:44,959
justify the CapEx spending. And Meta was more like, we're building this out and we'll see what
710
00:50:44,959 --> 00:50:50,219
happens. And the market didn't really see the immediate result in the expenditure and punish
711
00:50:50,219 --> 00:50:56,439
the stock. So I think it kind of actually reminds me of previous crypto cycles where something could
712
00:50:56,439 --> 00:51:01,919
just go up just because there was a narrative and now it's starting to price actual utility or want
713
00:51:01,919 --> 00:51:06,139
to see the value or see what this thing does or why it should go up. I think AI is becoming that
714
00:51:06,139 --> 00:51:13,119
way. So maybe you'll have to be a bit more selective. Listen, the market crash never seems
715
00:51:13,119 --> 00:51:17,259
to come, right? So I don't want to be the guy who says AI bubble ends tomorrow. Once again,
716
00:51:17,259 --> 00:51:20,359
and markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain insolvent.
717
00:51:20,439 --> 00:51:22,599
So I don't think it's going to crash soon.
718
00:51:23,639 --> 00:51:28,099
All I will say is when it does, it's going to be a spectacular explosion.
719
00:51:28,899 --> 00:51:31,639
Not in a good way, you know, but there will be a time
720
00:51:31,639 --> 00:51:36,079
when there's so much froth and overvalue that it absolutely collapses.
721
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:37,979
But right now, it seems like all the attention is there.
722
00:51:38,179 --> 00:51:42,179
As for like as a user, I think it's the most incredible technology
723
00:51:42,179 --> 00:51:59,701
that I ever seen in a lifetime you know like rivals the internet And I think that the ways that and I a boomer kind of in this world so I don really get it still Like you know everybody out here like vibe coding you know apps and stuff And I like trying to use it like
724
00:51:59,701 --> 00:52:06,361
a Google search, but it changes your life and it makes your life easier, which means it frees up
725
00:52:06,361 --> 00:52:10,461
more time and money to do other things, which kind of reminds me of Bitcoin in certain ways.
726
00:52:11,201 --> 00:52:15,881
And it kind of, once again, reiterates the point of the price of tomorrow, which is that
727
00:52:15,881 --> 00:52:19,741
your life should be made easier and cheaper by technologies that you have more freedom,
728
00:52:19,961 --> 00:52:21,541
time and money to do other things.
729
00:52:22,821 --> 00:52:23,301
100%.
730
00:52:23,301 --> 00:52:28,521
And when you just mentioned Jordy Visser, of course, his big thesis right now is that
731
00:52:28,521 --> 00:52:33,501
AI brings infinite abundance, whether it's intelligence or eventually material goods.
732
00:52:34,061 --> 00:52:37,461
And in reflection, you need a scarce asset like Bitcoin.
733
00:52:37,841 --> 00:52:40,241
So how do you see AI and Bitcoin playing out together?
734
00:52:40,461 --> 00:52:43,461
I really like his ideas around it.
735
00:52:44,081 --> 00:52:44,661
I hope he's right.
736
00:52:45,941 --> 00:52:52,041
I think the more natural marriage between AI and blockchain technology,
737
00:52:52,041 --> 00:52:55,481
obviously, which underlying Bitcoin that came from Bitcoin,
738
00:52:55,981 --> 00:53:00,741
will initially probably be AI agents spending stable coins on crypto rails.
739
00:53:01,501 --> 00:53:07,201
Just because I don't think AI agents are going to do microtransactions
740
00:53:07,201 --> 00:53:10,041
back and forth in Bitcoin immediately, right?
741
00:53:10,041 --> 00:53:16,301
But I think that maybe it will become the same way that a human perhaps interacts with crypto, right?
742
00:53:16,341 --> 00:53:18,801
Which is like Bitcoin is your savings account.
743
00:53:19,201 --> 00:53:20,641
That's how you sort of denominate.
744
00:53:20,721 --> 00:53:28,281
But when you want to go spend money, maybe you use stable coins as your rapidly exploding fiat that you need to get out of your hands before they burn.
745
00:53:28,981 --> 00:53:39,341
And so maybe those very same agents will accumulate their money in Bitcoin and then spend it in stable coins because it's faster, cheaper, and easier.
746
00:53:39,341 --> 00:53:41,361
when denominated in dollars.
747
00:53:41,481 --> 00:53:44,161
But the very thesis that in a world of abundance,
748
00:53:44,161 --> 00:53:46,181
you need something scarce to store value
749
00:53:46,181 --> 00:53:47,141
makes perfect sense.
750
00:53:47,201 --> 00:53:48,281
And in a digital world,
751
00:53:48,761 --> 00:53:50,401
what is scarce and stores value
752
00:53:50,401 --> 00:53:51,041
better than Bitcoin?
753
00:53:51,221 --> 00:53:51,401
Nothing.
754
00:53:52,181 --> 00:53:54,101
So yeah, I think it's brilliant.
755
00:53:55,041 --> 00:53:57,301
Yeah, let's hope these clinkers are smart enough
756
00:53:57,301 --> 00:53:59,501
to realize that Bitcoin is the best money, right?
757
00:53:59,601 --> 00:54:00,721
You've got to program them, right?
758
00:54:02,821 --> 00:54:04,021
Well, it's funny because I mean,
759
00:54:04,181 --> 00:54:06,441
Silicon Valley, they seem to be sort of,
760
00:54:06,521 --> 00:54:07,881
I don't want to say anti-Bitcoin,
761
00:54:07,981 --> 00:54:09,281
but they're definitely not pro-Bitcoin.
762
00:54:09,341 --> 00:54:12,641
right? And it's interesting. What do you think about that?
763
00:54:12,781 --> 00:54:17,861
Well, I think they're technologists, right? And so I think that there's a natural inclination
764
00:54:17,861 --> 00:54:24,181
towards the new shiny thing in Silicon Valley, right? AI is the new shiny thing. I think they
765
00:54:24,181 --> 00:54:29,581
even view Bitcoin kind of like as the old granddad, you know, and it's not exciting enough and there's
766
00:54:29,581 --> 00:54:34,121
not enough innovation on it. And so therefore they kind of write it off. I mean, you see like the
767
00:54:34,121 --> 00:54:39,181
all-in podcast guys or, you know, BitTensor and Solana and all these things, whatever. Great.
768
00:54:39,181 --> 00:54:48,501
Okay. But those are the things they get. You know, I think it just makes a lot more sense to them than, I also don't think they're probably excited about gold.
769
00:54:48,921 --> 00:54:49,321
Yeah.
770
00:54:49,661 --> 00:54:58,441
Right. Even when it goes from 2,000 to 4,000 or 5,000, right. I think that it's kind of a dismissive, whatever, that's boomer rocks sort of thing.
771
00:54:58,441 --> 00:55:08,001
And sadly, for better or for worse, I think Bitcoin's become like the boomer thing for people who go beyond Bitcoin and, you know, believe in crypto and all this other stuff.
772
00:55:08,001 --> 00:55:16,201
So I think that it won't really matter what they think if the AI agents actually decide to adopt Bitcoin for its scarce properties.
773
00:55:16,921 --> 00:55:20,481
I also think that most of those guys probably quietly own a lot of Bitcoin.
774
00:55:21,501 --> 00:55:22,521
Tremoth definitely does.
775
00:55:22,741 --> 00:55:25,681
I think for the point where he owned like 5% of the supply or something.
776
00:55:25,861 --> 00:55:28,001
I don't know what the number was, but yeah.
777
00:55:29,581 --> 00:55:31,321
Yeah, he got it early on for sure.
778
00:55:31,321 --> 00:55:38,721
But the chase of yield and big, big numbers, I think, got him away.
779
00:55:38,961 --> 00:55:41,681
For like building and entering and exiting.
780
00:55:42,181 --> 00:55:44,441
And, you know, I think it's just in their very DNA.
781
00:55:44,661 --> 00:55:46,321
So I don't like begrudge them that.
782
00:55:46,421 --> 00:55:48,301
I think that it's just not that exciting for them.
783
00:55:49,161 --> 00:55:53,481
Yeah, I think Silicon Valley could probably benefit for some lessons in Austrian economics.
784
00:55:53,481 --> 00:55:55,961
But let's see what gets them there.
785
00:55:57,501 --> 00:55:58,881
Maybe this inflation will.
786
00:55:58,881 --> 00:56:07,241
Well, in the last few minutes of this interview, I want to take it a little bit personal because I think that actually your journey and my journey sort of mirror each other in some ways.
787
00:56:07,501 --> 00:56:10,541
Before you were in media, you were a DJ.
788
00:56:11,201 --> 00:56:16,281
I had a band, one in Shanghai, China, and then played some music in New York as well.
789
00:56:16,761 --> 00:56:21,781
And then you transitioned into doing this YouTube stuff and podcasting.
790
00:56:22,181 --> 00:56:25,881
What skills did you learn in DJing that helped you with this career you have now?
791
00:56:25,881 --> 00:56:40,101
It's funny. I get this question quite often. And so beyond even DJing, I used to sit around and produce music all day. So I was in Ableton or Pro Tools or Logic, whatever it was, Fruity Loops back in the day, Acid. I don't know if you remember all these platforms.
792
00:56:40,101 --> 00:56:48,981
And so there was this natural thing where you were interacting with the software, using different plugins and stuff.
793
00:56:48,981 --> 00:57:00,963
And for some reason when I got into trading initially crypto and otherwise looking at charts was very familiar to me from looking at the software for producing music For
794
00:57:00,963 --> 00:57:06,743
some reason, like the creativity of it and finding things and patterns just resonated exceptionally
795
00:57:06,743 --> 00:57:10,963
well for music. I don't know if that makes any sense. I don't know if it makes any sense to anyone
796
00:57:10,963 --> 00:57:16,243
else, but it makes sense to me, right? And so I think that that was a huge part of it was that
797
00:57:16,243 --> 00:57:20,843
I could recognize the patterns and more importantly, like if I got into it, I could sit there
798
00:57:20,843 --> 00:57:25,923
endlessly, thousand charts and draw the lines and try to find the things, you know, and,
799
00:57:26,043 --> 00:57:32,803
and so that was the first kind of catch for me, really, as weird as that is, I don't know why,
800
00:57:32,883 --> 00:57:37,103
but it just, it felt familiar and felt like something I could spend hours doing.
801
00:57:39,423 --> 00:57:42,763
I mean, there may be more lessons to it, but that was definitely the first.
802
00:57:42,763 --> 00:57:51,243
yeah i mean so much of life and intelligence is pattern recognition and uh music uh seeing it all
803
00:57:51,243 --> 00:57:55,743
laid out in in logic or ableton it definitely makes you recognize those patterns faster and
804
00:57:55,743 --> 00:57:59,363
i'm sure it translates to charts yeah it makes a lot of sense it makes a lot of sense to me
805
00:57:59,363 --> 00:58:06,863
and um and then when it comes to building out this business that you've had now a career in
806
00:58:06,863 --> 00:58:12,523
media. A lot of people are trying to start personal brands and become their own mini
807
00:58:12,523 --> 00:58:17,643
wolf of all streets. What advice do you have for people starting off in the personal brand
808
00:58:17,643 --> 00:58:23,683
ecosystem? Interestingly, I wish that I could say, avoid making all the mistakes that I made
809
00:58:23,683 --> 00:58:30,523
in the past, but everyone's going to make them on their own anyways. I would say though that you
810
00:58:30,523 --> 00:58:31,743
You need to be hyper-focused.
811
00:58:33,563 --> 00:58:35,223
You can't be everything to everyone.
812
00:58:36,443 --> 00:58:39,323
And so I think that finding what you're really passionate about
813
00:58:39,323 --> 00:58:44,483
and going all in on it, doubling and tripling down on that thing,
814
00:58:45,803 --> 00:58:48,743
no breaks, showing up all the time,
815
00:58:49,023 --> 00:58:52,403
and always being there regardless of how tired you are
816
00:58:52,403 --> 00:58:55,203
or what the market's showing you or what you're busy with.
817
00:58:55,483 --> 00:58:59,503
I think that is how you have a chance to break through.
818
00:58:59,503 --> 00:59:07,743
I can't say you necessarily will, but you have to define what you are and then decide what kind of content would resonate with people, then test it.
819
00:59:08,523 --> 00:59:17,283
And then just be willing to put in the hours, days, years before it catches on.
820
00:59:17,683 --> 00:59:19,523
It was not easy.
821
00:59:19,743 --> 00:59:21,383
I would love to say that I did any of that.
822
00:59:21,743 --> 00:59:27,503
I just threw stuff at the wall and took a good nine years to get to where I am.
823
00:59:27,503 --> 00:59:31,743
and none of it was with any major intention.
824
00:59:31,923 --> 00:59:33,423
But I think that now with AI
825
00:59:33,423 --> 00:59:35,983
and with the amount of social media
826
00:59:35,983 --> 00:59:38,723
and the different places that you can gain exposure,
827
00:59:39,003 --> 00:59:40,303
if you have a plan,
828
00:59:40,943 --> 00:59:43,603
first of all, your content also has to just resonate.
829
00:59:43,943 --> 00:59:45,443
I won't say it has to be good
830
00:59:45,443 --> 00:59:46,883
because I don't know what good or bad is,
831
00:59:46,943 --> 00:59:48,403
but somebody has to think it's good.
832
00:59:49,143 --> 00:59:50,363
So if you're making shitty content,
833
00:59:50,363 --> 00:59:52,503
even if you're very dedicated and doing it all the time,
834
00:59:52,583 --> 00:59:54,503
it's still shitty content, right?
835
00:59:54,503 --> 00:59:58,623
But I would say that you need to define what you are.
836
00:59:59,663 --> 01:00:01,903
Kind of wake up with that mission statement every day,
837
01:00:02,123 --> 01:00:05,923
how to back yourself into making sure that you deliver that message
838
01:00:05,923 --> 01:00:07,763
to however big your audience is,
839
01:00:07,803 --> 01:00:10,103
whether it's one person or one million people.
840
01:00:10,623 --> 01:00:12,463
And be confident that if you keep showing up,
841
01:00:12,503 --> 01:00:13,903
that it'll continue to grow from there.
842
01:00:14,803 --> 01:00:16,263
Like I said, most of the things that have happened,
843
01:00:16,343 --> 01:00:19,903
most things I've built were kind of by happenstance or chance or luck
844
01:00:19,903 --> 01:00:21,383
or whatever you want to call it.
845
01:00:21,383 --> 01:00:27,423
I can't say that I planned to have a show on Yahoo Finance.
846
01:00:27,963 --> 01:00:29,883
It wasn't in my plans at all. It happened.
847
01:00:30,823 --> 01:00:33,863
No, but luck favors those who prepare.
848
01:00:34,443 --> 01:00:36,703
Part of the preparation is showing up every single day.
849
01:00:37,883 --> 01:00:39,403
Yeah, you got to work hard.
850
01:00:40,323 --> 01:00:42,243
And have fun with it. I think you make a good point.
851
01:00:42,243 --> 01:00:44,483
If you're not enjoying it, you're never going to make it.
852
01:00:44,603 --> 01:00:46,243
And everybody's going to know that. That's the thing.
853
01:00:46,323 --> 01:00:51,023
You can't fake passion for very long. I'm sure you can in the short term.
854
01:00:52,343 --> 01:00:53,463
No, but you've got it.
855
01:00:53,543 --> 01:00:55,083
And you show up every single day,
856
01:00:55,203 --> 01:00:56,823
you stream, you do podcasts,
857
01:00:57,063 --> 01:00:58,183
you're tweeting away,
858
01:00:58,423 --> 01:01:00,523
and you're obviously having fun
859
01:01:00,523 --> 01:01:02,063
doing this on a very big stage.
860
01:01:02,283 --> 01:01:04,503
So Scott, thank you so much for your time today.
861
01:01:04,923 --> 01:01:05,743
Thank you very much, man.
862
01:01:05,783 --> 01:01:06,643
I really, really enjoyed it.
863
01:01:07,063 --> 01:01:08,523
Yeah, and if people want to find out more,
864
01:01:08,643 --> 01:01:10,003
just plug yourself, please.
865
01:01:10,163 --> 01:01:11,463
At Scott Melker on X,
866
01:01:11,503 --> 01:01:12,743
you'll find everything else there.
867
01:01:12,823 --> 01:01:14,483
I've got the Daily Wolf on Yahoo Finance
868
01:01:14,483 --> 01:01:15,303
every day at noon.
869
01:01:15,843 --> 01:01:16,983
Of course, my YouTube channel.
870
01:01:17,763 --> 01:01:19,523
It'd be hard not to find me
871
01:01:19,523 --> 01:01:20,283
if you go searching.
872
01:01:21,383 --> 01:01:22,183
We're doing a lot.
873
01:01:23,643 --> 01:01:24,443
There you have it.
874
01:01:24,623 --> 01:01:24,923
All right.
875
01:01:24,963 --> 01:01:28,883
Well, hopefully get you back on when Bitcoin is reaching new all-time highs.
876
01:01:29,403 --> 01:01:30,303
So next week.
877
01:01:30,663 --> 01:01:31,243
Next week, yes.
878
01:01:31,343 --> 01:01:31,523
All right.
879
01:01:31,543 --> 01:01:31,943
I'll see you then.
880
01:01:32,643 --> 01:01:33,123
Bye-bye.
881
01:01:33,383 --> 01:01:35,603
Thank you so much for making it all the way to the end of this interview.
882
01:01:35,603 --> 01:01:38,943
If you enjoyed it, hit that like button, leave us a comment, and tell us your favorite part.
883
01:01:39,103 --> 01:01:42,863
Subscribe to the channel and turn on notifications so you know every single time that we drop a new one.
884
01:01:42,943 --> 01:01:45,663
If you want to dive deeper, check out the interview we just had with Jeffrey Tucker,
885
01:01:45,883 --> 01:01:49,703
libertarian and economist who has gone deep into the Fauci files,
886
01:01:49,703 --> 01:01:54,043
understanding what went on between 2020 and 2022 at the highest levels of our government
887
01:01:54,043 --> 01:01:58,183
and the NIH when everything was just going absolutely insane. Really interesting interview.
888
01:01:58,383 --> 01:01:58,883
I'll see you over there.