WEBVTT
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But I remember him saying to me one time, you know, he had a funny little quote that kind of stuck with me.
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And, you know, he said, uh yard by yard, life is hard, but inch by inch, life's a cinch.
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And I remember sitting there that day thinking, you know, it's just the little steps every day that we all make that improve ourselves.
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It's not these gigantic, massive steps every single day.
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But, you know, even in practice, it's just developing those fundamentals and then working on those fundamentals over and over and over again until where you started to see your improvement, but it's really small steps at a time.
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Welcome to Rise and Brine.
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I'm your host, Thurlbeak T.
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Bailey, and today I'm sitting down with someone who has truly mastered the art of performance both on and off the court.
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Coach Mark Garfree.
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Mark's journey is a masterclass in leadership.
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From his days as a standout player at Oral Roberts in Alabama to his illustrious career as an 11-time NCAA tournament head coach at powerhouses like Alabama and NC State.
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Mark has spent a lifetime in the high-pressure world of elite basketball.
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But he didn't stop there.
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Today, he's a performance strategist, a sought-actor corporate speaker, and the author of the new book Get It Done.
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The Playbook for Leading with Grit, Integrity, and Desire.
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We're going to talk to Mark about his path to coaching, his unfiltered take on the changing landscape of the college sports, and how he's taking the playbook he perfected on the sidelines, and applying it to help leaders and teams in the corporate world achieve their own championship results.
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Mark, it is truly an honor to have you on the show, and let's get it done, baby.
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Thurl, it is my pleasure.
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I'm so excited about today.
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And uh, I was telling somebody the other day I've had on my own podcast, I'm closing in on a hundred podcasts, but one of my favorite episodes is with you, Thurl Bailey.
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So uh thank you for doing that for me, but I'm I'm excited to be here with you today.
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Well, I appreciate it, man.
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Let's shoot, let's jump right in.
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Uh, I just mentioned that you've lived a life of high-stakes performance from your planned days at Oral Roberts and in Alabama to the pressures of BNC A.
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Looking back at those formative years, uh, what was the grind that really kind of built the foundation of who you are today, coach?
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You know, Thurrell, I was lucky, very fortunate in that my dad was uh, when I was very young, he was a high school basketball coach and then a small college coach.
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He became an athletic director uh at the University of South Alabama.
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His brother, Mike Gottfried, was the head football coach at Cincinnati and Pittsburgh and Kansas.
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And so I've grown up around it.
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And uh, you know, and I think about you know, my journey, and everybody has their own journey.
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I was lucky and fortunate to be around the gym and in, you know, in the locker rooms and at practices, even when I was young.
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And, you know, I think that just taught me a lot.
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Uh, I probably didn't even realize what lessons I was learning at the time.
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But um, you know, I watched my dad at some point, even though he had a wonderful career, he was fired at one time.
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My uncle got fired at one time, and there was adversity.
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And I watched those guys bounce back and be resilient and uh pick up the pieces and get on to the next step.
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And so I just have been very lucky uh that I have been around some mentors that laid a foundation for me, I think, that hopefully has helped me, you know, throughout my own journey, my own career.
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You know, you played also at the highest levels.
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If you were drafted to the NBA as well, um that transition from player to the coaching staff at UCLA was kind of a major pivot for you.
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How did that experience teach you to to adapt when your original path probably didn't turn out like you meant it to?
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You know, I was playing back in the old days, Thurl in the in the LA Summer League that was at uh, you know, now it's in Las Vegas, but you know, years ago, and you probably played in it uh potentially there at Loyola Marymount.
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And anyway, I was playing with the Detroit Pistons, and uh the ball began to roll a little bit that I might have a chance to join Jim Herrick's staff at UCLA, even as a graduate assistant.
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I just wanted to get my foot in the door and uh learn and you know start a career.
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And so, you know, it was a little difficult because I thought I had a pretty good chance to make the team with Detroit, but at the same time, you know, here's an opportunity that potentially, you know, I get to start my coaching career at a school like UCLA.
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And so I kept saying to myself, how do you turn that down?
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You know, I don't know that I want to because I, you know, the the history of UCLA with John Wooden, and even though that was years before us, you know, just associating my name with UCLA, I thought would be so powerful.
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And it turned out to be that way.
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And um, so anyway, I I was uh, you know, we all play, and at some point the ball does stop bouncing and it stops at some point earlier, later, but for all of us it did.
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But for me, it just made it a really easy transition because I wanted to coach.
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That was uh something I always wanted to do.
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And now here I've got this opportunity.
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So uh it was something I jumped on and uh never looked back, and uh it ended up being a uh just a sensational move to be associated uh with UCLA, and then the success we had there was was terrific as well.
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And and and you know, we never know what lies ahead.
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It's it's really about the choices we make as well.
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You said it was an easy transition, but wasn't an easy choice at that time.
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Because I know you love playing.
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Yeah, I did, and and it's a great question, Thurl.
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It was hard, to be quite honest.
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It was very difficult.
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And I had a lot of nights where I went back and forth in my mind.
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And the funny thing was, an interesting story is that you know, Jim Herrick had just gotten the job and we were talking back and forth and back and forth.
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And you know, finally one night he asked me, he said, Are you done playing?
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Because he didn't want to bring me on the staff, and then all of you know, a year later I'd go back to playing.
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And so, you know, I made the decision right then.
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I said, Coach, if you want me to come to UCLA, I'm done.
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Now, the interesting thing was, thorough, we still had about three or four games left in the summer league, and it just so happened this is how funny things happen in life, I made the decision.
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I was going to UCLA and I was going to coach, and the very next night we were playing uh the Lakers and they had just drafted David Rivers.
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This was 1988.
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Oh, yeah, and uh first round draft pick out of Notre Dame.
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And anyway, uh shortly into the game, Dick Versace was our head coach, and he looked down the bench and he said, Mark, let's go.
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And I went in the game, and on that day, Thurrell, I had the best day of the whole summer league.
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I had 14 points and eight assists.
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And now, you know, I go back to the hotel, I'm scratching my head, like, wait a minute, hold on here.
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And I remember Bob Ferry was the uh general manager of the uh, at that time, it was the Washington Bullets.
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And uh we were walking down the hall in the uh LAX Marriott, and he said, Mark, I want to bring you to camp.
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And now I'm thinking, oh my God, what did I do?
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But the truth of the matter is my heart was in coaching, and I just didn't want to pass on an opportunity uh like UCLA.
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And so even though it was hard, thorough, I knew in my gut in the long term that was going to be something that was gonna be really good for me.
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Well, it was great for you.
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You racked up a storied coaching career.
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Um you're an 11-time NCAA tournament coach.
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And the level that level of consistency is very rare.
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What was the one thing you had to do maybe every single season to keep your teams mentally tough enough to reach that prestigious stage?
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Well, you know, first of all, Thor, I I'm very uh wise in the fact that, you know, good players always help us.
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You know, I I wish I'd have, although we're similar in age, you know, I wish I'd have coached you.
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You are such a great player, and uh you had a phenomenal college coach and uh Jim Valvano.
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But, you know, for us, you know, when it's part of you know the whole picture, even when I talk about leadership and for performance, and I do that a lot now, you know, is building the right team.
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And that started for me, that started with my coaching staff.
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I wanted to build the best uh staff that I possibly could.
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And everybody brought something different to the table.
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And I always wanted my assistant coaches to hope and desire to become head coaches.
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I wanted them to do everything.
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I didn't want them to be so laser focused on just defense or just offense, but you know, to really immerse themselves to where they are a potential head coaching candidate.
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And I've had a number of guys do that, and that was very exciting for me to watch guys, you know, go on in their careers.
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And then obviously in in sports, you know, the the lifeblood of your program is your players.
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And I loved uh the guys.
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And you know, Thorrell, I look back now and you know, I'm a little bit older, and some of the guys I coach, they're in their 40s now, you know, mid-40s, and they're married and children and they have good jobs and careers.
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And really, truly, Thorrell, that's what kind of fills my cup.
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You know, I look back and the relationships and the phone calls that I have now with some of the guys, and we'll laugh about things and situations, but I love that part of it.
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I loved, you know, really getting to know our guys and helping them hopefully reach their dreams and their goals and the things they wanted to do in life, you know, along with winning, obviously, while where we were.
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So that that was the probably the key thing for me and the and the most enjoyable part of it for me.
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Well, you just talked about the epitome really of player development.
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Um that was my next question as well.
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In an era where players are often focused on that that highlight reel, how did you teach your players to kind of fall in love with the boring parts of the game?
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Sometimes the the defense, the fundamentals, the crit.
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Uh what was your your your strategy there?
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That kind of goes back, Thurl, to when I was at UCLA, and I was so lucky.
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I was so fortunate.
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I feel blessed beyond my wildest dreams that you know I got to develop a relationship with John Wood.
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Now he was older at the time, he was in his 80s.
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He lived to be 99, but you know, I had the opportunity to go to his house, Thurl, and we'd sit on the couch and we would talk and just talk about, you know, not necessarily X's and O's and how to break a 221 press, but it was more of the leadership and the integrity and all the things he wanted to teach.
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And so I was so, so lucky.
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But I remember him saying to me one time, you know, he had a funny little quote that kind of stuck with me.
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And, you know, he said, uh yard by yard, life is hard, but inch by inch, life's a cinch.
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And I remember sitting there that day thinking, you know, it's just the little steps every day that we all make that improve ourselves.
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It's not these gigantic, massive steps every single day, but you know, even in practice, it's just developing those fundamentals and then working on those fundamentals over and over and over again until where you started to see your improvement, but it's really small steps at a time.
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And I think so many times in life, we want to, you know, we want to hit the grand slam, we want to hit that you know, home run, we we want to do all that and we want it to happen today, like now.
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But the reality is where we really develop as players or people or as coaches or administrators or leaders is just the day-by-day improvement.
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And so I remember Coach Wooden telling me that, and it sunk in, and it it I think it really made a difference in how I tried to approach uh myself as a coach.
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I want to get into really the crux of what you're doing now, but I do want to ask you about the state of the game.
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Today has changed drastically with the transfer portal, obviously, and NIL.
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Someone who's coached for decades.
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What's your honest take on the current state of the game, college game right now?
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You know, Thurrell, I think we all, you know, the game always involves it always evolves.
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It does.
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Things change, it's never the same as it once was.
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And so I understand that.
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And uh I tell this to people a lot.
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You know, I like the fact that guys are able to make some money in college.
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I really do.
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I I have felt for a long time that uh, you know, when I'm coaching at NC State, Gerald Mamater, and I've got a great player at TJ Warren, and his jersey's in the bookstore, and it's his name on the back with his number that somehow he's not uh getting compensated for that.
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That always bothered me.
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And so I like the fact that guys are able to be compensated.
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Now, at the same time, I will tell you that, you know, paying a guy$4 million or$5 million for one season in college, I think the the uh the train is off the tracks on that.
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I don't know that that's something we should be doing because I've always felt like college, those college years, it's a train, it's a transitional time in all of our lives where we go from being in high school and living at home, and then you have this transition period in college, and then you become a professional or you go to the workplace and you become an adult and a husband or a wife or whatever.
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So that college experience is wonderful.
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Now, at the the the part that probably bothers me more than anything is the ability to transfer every single year and go in the portal.
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And I personally I'd be in favor if you got to transfer one time without sitting out or if there was a coaching change.
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But watching guys just every single year change schools, it really kind of breaks my heart, Thor, because I look back and I'm I would venture to say you might agree with this, but the relationships that you build in college with your teammates and your coaches and your classmates and your friends when you're there for three or four years, I think those are invaluable.
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I don't think you can put a price tag on that.
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There's no monetary price tag you could put on that.
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And also, we've all gone through it.
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We all wanted to start and be superstars as freshmen.
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Well, that doesn't always happen.
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And so you work and you improve and you get better, and then you get to play more as a sophomore and then as a junior, and you know, that's important to me.
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Yeah, so when I see guys just, hey, I'm not playing very much as a freshman, I'm out, I'm bored, I'm in the portal, I'm in a portal again.
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And you look up and you see guys that have been in four schools in four years or five schools in five years.
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I personally I don't see the benefit of that.
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I I'm not a fan of that at all.
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So that's kind of my my take on it.
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And you just touched on something, which is going to be my next question.
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Is it is it harder for coaches today to build that team first attitude with the way things are structured now?
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And you can get players to commit.
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Yeah.
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It's just based on talent and money.
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Yeah, and you know, Thorrell, the guys that I speak to, and I've got a lot of friends obviously coaching, you know, it it kind of saddens me when I hear him say this, but it's again, it's part of the reality of today is that you know, they build a one-year team.
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This is just a one-year transactional team, and then we got to rebuild it next year.
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We may have some guys stay, go in the portal.
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And I often tell people, you know, it would be like in pro sports, and you know, obviously you had a wonderful career in the NBA or Major League Baseball.
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If every player was a free agent every single year, it'd be chaos, it'd just be chaos.
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And again, so I think that part is difficult for coaches right now, and coaches that are coaching in college, they have to adapt.
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There's no question about it.
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But um, I think a lot of coaches, especially the the guys in our generation, they put value on those relationships that they built for for, and people forget this too, Thurl.
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You have to remember, and I'm sure this might have been the case in your situation, is I started recruiting a lot of guys when they were sometimes freshmen in high school or sophomores or juniors.
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So I've recruited them for two or three years, and then I get to coach them for two or three years.
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And so that window is now a five or six or seven-year window that we've been somewhat together, and uh that has drastically changed.
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And so um, anyway, that kind of breaks my heart a little bit because I was a fan and I'm still a fan of college basketball, but some of those things maybe don't sit as well with me personally.
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No, I appreciate your candy this coach.
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Let's talk about this uh performance strategist career.
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You've pivoted from coaching 19-year, coaching 19-year-old athletes to speaking to corporate executives.
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What's the biggest coaching secret you've learned that applies equally to the basketball locker rooms and boardrooms?
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Well, let me just say this first, Furl, is when I coached, you know, obviously we want to win.
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Everybody wants to win, but at the same time, I want to have an impact on those kids in my locker room.
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I I want to impact them in a positive way that as when they leave our program, that they're better, uh, better players, better people, the whole thing.
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So now I think the the joy for me, Furl, is I get to stand sometimes in front of two and three hundred people.
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It could be a sales meeting, and you know, I've spoken at hotel sales meetings and tech company sales meetings.
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And, you know, now I have the opportunity to impact hundreds of people, you know, through standing there and sharing what I believe helps all of us to develop the best versions of ourselves.
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And when I talk about, you know, leading what I call the GID approach, the get it done mindset, you know, it it truly is built on grit.
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And, you know, the the grit that we developed, you know, um going through those difficult time periods, the ups and the downs and the resilience and the consistency that we all have to have, and then the integrity part where, you know, we've all made mistakes.
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I've made them in my life, made big ones.
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But what do we do when the compass is broken?
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How do we fix it?
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Because it'll get broken at times, and we all sometimes make decisions, we're all human beings, but then also that desire, you know, and the love for what you're doing.
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I mean, if you don't love what you're doing, it's gonna be difficult.
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But if you do love what you're doing, boy, that that's like fuel.
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That's like fuel in the tank, and it pushes through every decision.
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So in every organization, Thor, I've learned this, we're all people.
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Um, we all can kind of fall into life, um, somewhat get complacent at times, somewhat be mediocre at times.
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And how do we, or how do I help individuals and companies strive to perform at the highest possible level they can while, you know, maintaining a high level of integrity, you know, leading with grit, desire, all those things.
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And so for me, it kind of really fills my cup.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:35.039
You know, I'm not in a locker room, you know, it's not an intimate session at times.
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:35.359
Yeah.
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:41.359
But boy, is it fun to see people that uh, you know, the message begins to resonate, and I like that a lot.
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:42.880
That's powerful.
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.039
Well, stay with us.
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:52.880
When we get back here in just a second, um, we're gonna talk about Coach's new book that's out.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:58.000
We'll be right back with more Rise and Grind with Coach Mark Godfrey.
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.160
Hey guys, time out.
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.480
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00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:08.000
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Victory starts within.
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:36.480
Welcome back to Rise and Grind.
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:45.440
We're talking to Coach Mark Garfried, and and uh we just talked about what he's doing across the country.
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:55.039
I would think, Coach, that you're you're doing a lot of traveling right now with with all your speaking, not just uh locally, but uh I'm guessing internationally as well.
00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.440
You know, it's I do in thoroughly it's fun.
00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:02.720
Uh, you know, sometimes it's you kind of make it through an airport and you know that type thing.
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:17.680
But I tell you, when you get to meet people and kind of see where they are at that moment in their lives, and hopefully, again, like we talked about, where I can potentially um, you know, start the engines a little bit, uh, it really, it really uh makes it worthwhile.
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.200
So I don't mind it one bit.
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:28.319
Well, let's talk about your new book uh titled Get It Done, the Playbook for Leading with Grit, Integrity and Desire.
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:30.000
G I D.
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:38.000
In the corporate world, people talk a lot, Coach, about results, but you emphasize integrity and desire.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:45.839
How do you teach a team to balance that hunger for winning with the necessity of doing things the right way?
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:47.519
It's a great question.
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:49.200
And uh thank you so much, throw.
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:50.480
You know, this is my new book ready.
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:51.599
I'm so excited about it.
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.039
And I've that's my first book.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:54.559
I hope to write some more.
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:59.839
Um But you know, uh, it's all part of our journey.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.640
And uh when I speak, Thor, I'm pretty authentic, I'm pretty vulnerable.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:12.559
Uh, I talk about some mistakes I've made in my own life and how I've recovered and how I tried to have resilience.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:17.279
Um, you know, coaches sometimes they always the old saying, we're hired to be fired.
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:18.880
You know, I've been fired.
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.279
Uh it's no fun, it hurts, it's painful.
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:29.119
Um and those things are real, but a lot of us have had things like that in our lives.
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:31.119
We've we've all faced some adversity.
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:35.119
Uh, we've all had difficult things happen to us.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.960
And so for me, um, that's what I try to focus on.
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:41.440
And and Thurrell, I'm gonna take you back real quick.
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.240
It's 2004, the NCAA tournament.
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:46.720
I had a team at Alabama, I was head coach.
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:48.720
Our record was 16 and 12.
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:49.279
How about that?
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.960
And we're waiting on uh selection show Sunday.
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.559
You know, every the whole country's watching, all the teams are getting named.
00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:06.720
And uh one thing I knew was we had the number one toughest strength of schedule that year in the country, but we were the last team to be named, the last one of 64 teams.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.559
We erupted, we were excited, and we had a chance to fly to Seattle and play.
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:15.920
We beat Southern Illinois in the eight-seed, nine-seed game, and now we've got to play Stanford, who is number one in the country.
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:22.400
We're down three at the half, uh 39-36, come out in the second half and throw.
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:24.640
We went on to miss our first 17 shots.
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:26.079
It's a little bit like life.
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:32.079
You know, sometimes the ball is rolling your way, and next thing you know, uh it's just not going in the basket.
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:33.680
And that happens to all of us.
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.519
You know, things start to go awry, and which they did.
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:39.359
And I remember calling timeout through.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:47.200
It was the only time that year I felt like our team walked to the bench, they had their heads down, and I think they felt like this thing is getting away from us.
00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:48.559
We were down, I think, 10 points.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.960
And I remember in that timeout telling them, guys, this is a GID moment.
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:56.559
This is a get it done moment that you're gonna have throughout the rest of your lives.
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:58.319
We can get on the plane and go home.
00:23:58.559 --> 00:23:59.920
We were 16 and 12.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.279
Nobody expected us to be here.
00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:02.559
We won a game already.
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:05.599
We're in the second round, you know, hooray.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:10.559
Or we can embrace this moment, we can have more enthusiasm than we've ever had.
00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:12.799
We're all gonna play our roles better than we ever had.
00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:16.960
We're gonna cheer for each other more than we ever had, and we're gonna find a way to get this done.
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:20.640
And I remember they broke the huddle thoroughly and they went about five feet away from me.
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:22.480
And sometimes, you know, players do that.
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:28.400
They huddled up again amongst themselves, and I could hear them saying, GID time, this is a GID time.
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:34.960
And we came out of that timeout and hit a three-pointer, and another kid, next thing you know, here we come, and we knocked off Stanford.
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:38.000
We beat them 70, 67, they were the number one team in the country.
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:46.000
But those guys, thorough, understood in that moment right there what it really meant when we say this is a GID moment.
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:48.000
This is a get it, and we all have them.
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:49.680
We all have them in our lives every day.
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:52.160
Could be parenting, could be at work.
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:55.359
Um, we got them and they're coming.
00:24:55.519 --> 00:25:01.920
And in those moments, we have to develop that grit and have the integrity and have the desire to fight through those things.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:11.119
So uh that's a little bit of the backstory on where that title came from, but it's something that I I believe in, and I believe that we we all face them and we all have to overcome them.
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:13.279
Coach, you got me fired up with that story.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:17.200
If I had hair, it'd be standing straight up in the head right now.
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:19.680
That was awesome.
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:21.039
That was awesome.
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:29.599
So, as a performance strategist, when you when you walk into a company that's struggling, what's the first thing you look for?
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:31.839
Is it lack of talent?
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:33.200
Is it lack of grit?
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:35.599
Uh what is it and how do you fix it?
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:38.400
You know, most of the time, Thorl, it's like a locker room.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.200
Uh you have to be good to be in the room.
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.440
If you're not good, you're not sitting in the room to begin with.
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:47.119
You're not on the team to begin with.
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:52.640
You know, you've played with great players, and you close those doors in the locker room.
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:57.680
Everyone in there can play, and everybody has a role to play.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:11.279
Sometimes it's it's it's getting certain people to accept their roles and not only accept their role, but then excel within their role to the highest ability that they can.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.480
You know, not every player is Michael Jordan.
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:19.440
Uh, there are guys that are just as valuable in their roles, right?
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.279
But they may not be the superstar.
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:23.279
And that's the same in the corporate world.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:38.480
You know, I've I've walked into uh different rooms, and and I understand that everybody in the room is good, but how do we all come to a place where this company then can rise to another level to where everybody wins in the room?
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:42.400
We all win because we all play a role, no different than in sports.
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:50.799
And as you know, Thurl, you know, growing up in sports, being around sports, and you've spent a lifetime in sports.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:27:05.119
Sports teaches so many lessons about success and failure and hard work and grit and teamwork and roles and uh authority, and there's so many things that we all have learned.
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:19.519
So I try to take each one of those, and usually, you know, there's a lot of conversations leading up to you know that actual opportunity when I stand in front of the group with the leadership and and they'll tell me a little bit where their teams are struggling and where our company is struggling.
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:21.920
And we I'll incorporate that into the speech.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:35.279
But at the same time, my goal is to help those people in the room kind of get reignited to where again they can wake up the next day and they can be the absolute best they possibly can be.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:41.039
And so that's my hope uh when I have the opportunity to speak in front of groups.
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:42.160
Fantastic.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:48.880
You know, and you've also transitioned into some podcasting along with uh your motivational speaking.
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:59.920
Are there any particular core messages that you're sharing with audiences now that you couldn't necessarily share in a locker room full of players?
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:01.519
That's a great question.
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:06.160
You know, in my podcast, Thurl, and you you've been a guest and you were you were sensational.
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:14.799
You know, I think what I try to do, Thurl, is pull out from people um, you know, their stories of their journey.
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:16.799
You know, you had a journey.
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:29.200
Um your guys' run through the NCAA tournament in 1983 at NC State may have changed some of your journey, it might have changed uh what happens in the you know, what happened to you in the future.
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:36.079
And so we and there, I'm sure with all of us, and and you shared some when you were on my show, we've had struggles at times.
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.480
You know, we we've had them, we've all had them.
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:42.000
Uh some of us don't want to talk about them, but we've all had them.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:46.240
And uh we've had those ups, we've had those downs, the downs hurt.
00:28:46.400 --> 00:29:06.960
And sometimes what I what I enjoy doing, and it's been such a blessing for me, because I get to sit and and talk with these uh wonderful, amazing, successful, mostly athletes, and and uh is just learning their stories and what happened along the way to where and who helped them along the way.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:22.319
You know, we all have so many people, Thurl, that have poured into us and they have given us an opportunity, or they believed in us, and they uh and without them, we wouldn't have the success we had.
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:24.079
We just we just wouldn't have.
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:46.240
And you know, again, I don't, you know, I I look back and and uh you know the group you played with at NC State and you played for one of the you know great coaches of all time and Jim Valvano, and the fact he believed in you and he gave you certain opportunities and he gave you the the kind of the wind behind your back at times, you know, to really to propel you.
00:29:46.480 --> 00:30:03.039
Um so we've all had people like that in our lives, and I like to hear how guys uh are so gracious because they do attribute a lot of their success to these certain people, their mentors and people that poured into them.
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:08.960
And so for me, that's really a wonderful joy for me to listen and learn from everybody.
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:14.000
Coach course, as you know, this show's called Rise and Grind.
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:23.519
What does the Rise and Grind mentality look like for you today compared to when you were in the middle of a conference schedule?
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:33.039
You know, the biggest difference, Thor, is you know, when I coached, um you know, I had a team, you know, I I had a coaching staff that was my team.
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:40.400
I love to shut the door at nine o'clock every morning and sit with my coaching staff, and I wanted to hear everyone's opinion.
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:43.839
And I didn't want yes men, I wanted your honest opinions.
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:47.119
Um, I loved that part of it.
00:30:47.359 --> 00:31:03.200
And now, you know, as kind of a I don't know that I would consider myself an entrepreneurial guy, but you know, I'm I'm I'm forging through this, you know, where I have, you know, my daughter helps me here, and I got a couple people, but you know, a lot of times I'm by myself, you know, I travel by myself.
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:05.200
I get on an airplane by myself.
00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:14.000
And you you can remember too, you know, the the fun it is sometimes to travel with that team, to sit in the plane and you know, to joke with one another.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.160
And you know, you have that camaraderie.
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:25.839
So the biggest difference for me probably right now is you know, making sure every day when I wake up, you know, I am going at it and I am pursuing.
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.680
And uh, you know, people ask me sometimes, are you retired?
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:31.119
I I don't like that word at all.
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:36.160
I you know, I feel like it's like yeah, you're you're you're pushing me out to pasture, you know.
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.400
I'm just gonna, you know, I don't like that.
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:40.640
You know, I say this is another chapter.
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:48.160
I have a new chapter in my life that I've embraced that I love, and and I'm gonna tackle this thing every single day.
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:53.359
I'm gonna wake up motivated and uh keep pursuing and pursuing.
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:54.640
And how do I get better?
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:57.119
How do I uh get to a group?
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:01.759
How do I find a way to motivate somebody and and to inspire somebody?
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:04.880
And so that to me, that's a difference, you know.
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:23.279
And you know, that's the one thing in sports that when we all get out of sports at some point, that's the one thing that probably all of us share at common is we miss that you know, that group, that team, that the players, the coaches, the getting on that bus, getting on that plane, going in that locker room, eating a team meal together.
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:24.000
We're always together.
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:26.000
You're always we're always in a big group.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:28.720
And so then we have to adjust out of that.
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:30.720
And so I've had to do the same.
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.440
But uh for me, it's just every single day.
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:39.839
I I know uh what God has called me to do at this point in my life, and I want to do the best I can to fulfill it.
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:55.759
So, along with that, coach, you know, looking back at your entire journey, talked about what an important word that is for everybody from Crestline to the Hall of Fame coaching circles to the boardroom.
00:32:56.160 --> 00:33:04.240
What is it that has kept you showing up when everything sometimes told you to stop?
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:06.720
Wow.
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:08.559
Um wonderful question.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:20.079
You know, you know, throw my my father is 86 years old, and uh there's nobody that has had a more of a footprint on my life than him.
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:20.640
Nobody.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:22.400
And I've been around great people.
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:27.519
I play for a wonderful, wonderful coach, very good coach in Wimp Sanderson, the University of Alabama.
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:31.920
I Jim Herrick gave me my first opportunity to coach at UCLA.
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:39.920
I was around John Wooden, who is, you know, uh, you know, he's on Mount Rushmore of coaches, you know, with what he with what he did.
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:43.200
And I say all that, but then I come back to my father.
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:51.119
And uh, you know, what motivates me every day still, and believe it or not, I'm 62 years old and I still want to make my dad proud.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:56.400
Uh and so that's kind of a driving force for me every single day.
00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:03.039
And you know, I was with him uh two weeks ago down in Alabama, and I handed him a uh copy of the book.
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:15.519
And and there are stories about my father that are just kind of weaved in and out of the entire book because uh the things, the lessons I learned and how I applied those things, and you know, he put the ball in my hand when I was little.
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.639
And uh, so for me, Thurl, that's that's the motivator every single day.
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:24.480
That's what um gets me excited every day.
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:27.760
And then on top of that, for a lot, Thurl, I've had you know, I have five children.
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:30.880
I've I'm married now with three more stepchildren.
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.400
But my five children, they've always kind of been my why.
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:36.800
You know, why am I doing what I'm doing?
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:39.920
It's those kids who are now you know young adults.
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:46.239
Um but the combination of all those things to me, that that's been that's that's what drives me.
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.000
That's what motivates me every single day.
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:49.280
It's what gets me excited.
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:51.199
And so uh, and I'm thankful for that.
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.360
Very, very powerful coach.
00:34:53.599 --> 00:35:00.320
Um, before I let you go, I'm gonna throw you a few passes here on the lightning round, some questions.
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:04.559
Um, one person, and I think I know the answer to this.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:10.639
Uh, one person who had the biggest impact on your coaching philosophy.
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:16.559
Coaching philosophy, I would say it's Jim Herrick, uh, which he is a disciple of John Wooden.
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:19.280
You know, he but that's the guy, you know.
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:24.719
I I think as a head coach and the success we had at UCLA, we won a national championship in 1995.
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:28.639
I became a believer in most everything we did, almost everything we did.
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:30.960
And I wanted my teams to replicate that.
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:34.639
So as a as a coaching philosophy, it would be Jim Herrick.
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:39.360
Best play from your playbook that every listener should run today.
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:45.039
Well, if you got a great shooter, if you got a great, great shooter, I used to run this play called Corner.
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:47.760
And uh when I was at NC State, it was interesting.
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:50.800
Those six years, Thorl, I had six straight years.
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:56.000
I had three different players make more three-point shots than any anybody else in the ACC.
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:01.599
But we'd run them off screens in the in the on the kind of on the baseline under the basket, right, left, right, left.
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:03.679
And we came out of there with so many great shots.
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:05.920
I I still had to have somebody can make it, though.
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:07.679
I can run the play.
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.079
But I used to tell them, I I'll run the play and I'll get you open, but you got to make it, not me.
00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:13.119
I can't make it for you.
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:20.480
And uh, but uh it was our play called corner, and the and the people in Raleigh will laugh at that one because they used to see me with this one all game.
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:24.159
We're running corner, corner, corner, and uh it was a fun one.
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.360
I saw you do that a lot of times, coach.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.079
Uh next one, toughest gem you ever played, Coach then.
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:44.719
You know, uh Thurl, you know, having taken teams into you know, Kentucky, Syracuse, Louisville, North Carolina, uh, for me, I would just say Cameron indoor.
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:47.039
You know, it's a tough place to win at Duke.
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:55.119
We were fortunate enough to win uh in there one time and uh one at the other places as well, but Duke is is different.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:58.639
You know, it's that old, small, tight, you played in it.
00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:05.599
It's a it's a cracker box where the fans are right on top of you, and they're they're they're loud and they're good, by the way.
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:07.280
Their teams are usually pretty good.
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:16.719
Um, so that one to me was probably the most memorable road win I ever had was going in and and winning at Duke.
00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:18.559
That's huge.
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:23.199
So one habit that kept you focused during the season.
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:24.800
You know what it was interesting?
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:28.079
I'm gonna say, probably, you know, uh working out.
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:35.760
I mean, I it was a habit I built, and I think it's it's one part of life I think people sometimes neglect is their health.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:44.719
And believe it or not, for me, I was at my best as a coach when I was in the best shape, even not playing shape.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:59.760
I wasn't gonna go out and play in a game, but for me, my health, my sleeping habits, believe it or not, which are difficult for all of us, especially you know, leaders who kind of feel like they they're carrying the weight of that company or team or organization on their back.
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:13.280
But that's a habit for me, Thor, that I that I learned early on, and I wanted to always make sure it was a part of my daily routine, because I think um that is something we neglect.
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:14.880
Sometimes people do neglect it.
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:18.079
I don't think we're always at our best unless we're at our best health.
00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:20.079
And so for me, that's a great question.
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:25.920
I've never been asked that question before, but I would say, you know, being in shape and having and getting getting to bed.
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:26.800
Good night.
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:28.800
We stay up too late sometimes.
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:31.840
Go to bed, get some sleep, get up tomorrow, ready to go.
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:39.920
Last one, coach, and maybe the most difficult one with the kind of uh career that you've had.
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:44.480
If you had to describe your career in one word, what would it be?
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:51.519
Thorl, I hope, I hope and pray that that word is impactful.
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:58.960
You know, Thorrell, you know, whether we win 400 games, 500,000, you know, all that's fun.
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.119
It's all fun, it's all amazing.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:11.760
And you know, sometimes people think those things define you, you know, those wins and the NCAA tournament runs or a national championship, and they're they're fabulous.
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:13.199
You were a part of one in college.
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:14.480
They're they're sensational.
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:16.719
There's there's they're wonderful.
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:28.079
But I think as you get older for me, um having an impact on people, having an impact on young people in a positive way, I hope that's the word.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:29.679
I hope it's impactful.
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:40.960
Well, coach, thank you so much for sharing your story and giving us a look at the playbook that has guided you the hardwood to the boardroom.
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:56.079
It's been an incredible look at the evolution of the game, the discipline required to build a winning culture, and also the importance of finding new purpose when final all drugges or whistleblowers, if you will.
00:39:56.320 --> 00:40:06.079
Whether your coaching on the sidelines or speaking to a new audience, your commitment to developing people and leading with grit and integrity is so clear.
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:15.199
To our listeners, remember that Mark shared, remember what Mark shared about those boring fundamentals of success.
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:16.880
It's the daily grind.
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:25.519
It's the discipline and the character that you build when no one's watching that defines who you are when the game's on the line.
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:35.519
If you enjoyed this conversation, please make sure to check out Mark's new book, Get It Done, the Playbook for Leading with Grit, Integrity, and Desire.
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:40.239
And visit him at coachmarkgottfried.com.
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:48.480
Subscribe to the podcast, leave us a review, and share this episode with someone who needs a little motivation today.
00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:54.559
So keep rising, keep grinding, and we'll see you next time on Rising Brind.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.519
But I remember him saying to me one time, you know, he had a funny little quote that kind of stuck with me.
00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:12.880
And, you know, he said, uh yard by yard, life is hard, but inch by inch, life's a cinch.
00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:20.960
And I remember sitting there that day thinking, you know, it's just the little steps every day that we all make that improve ourselves.
00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:24.800
It's not these gigantic, massive steps every single day.
00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:38.560
But, you know, even in practice, it's just developing those fundamentals and then working on those fundamentals over and over and over again until where you started to see your improvement, but it's really small steps at a time.
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:55.920
Welcome to Rise and Brine.
00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:57.200
I'm your host, Thurlbeak T.
00:00:57.359 --> 00:01:04.640
Bailey, and today I'm sitting down with someone who has truly mastered the art of performance both on and off the court.
00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:06.719
Coach Mark Garfree.
00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.719
Mark's journey is a masterclass in leadership.
00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:24.719
From his days as a standout player at Oral Roberts in Alabama to his illustrious career as an 11-time NCAA tournament head coach at powerhouses like Alabama and NC State.
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:29.439
Mark has spent a lifetime in the high-pressure world of elite basketball.
00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:31.359
But he didn't stop there.
00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:41.280
Today, he's a performance strategist, a sought-actor corporate speaker, and the author of the new book Get It Done.
00:01:41.599 --> 00:01:45.920
The Playbook for Leading with Grit, Integrity, and Desire.
00:01:47.040 --> 00:02:06.159
We're going to talk to Mark about his path to coaching, his unfiltered take on the changing landscape of the college sports, and how he's taking the playbook he perfected on the sidelines, and applying it to help leaders and teams in the corporate world achieve their own championship results.
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:11.599
Mark, it is truly an honor to have you on the show, and let's get it done, baby.
00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:13.919
Thurl, it is my pleasure.
00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:15.680
I'm so excited about today.
00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:25.919
And uh, I was telling somebody the other day I've had on my own podcast, I'm closing in on a hundred podcasts, but one of my favorite episodes is with you, Thurl Bailey.
00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:30.800
So uh thank you for doing that for me, but I'm I'm excited to be here with you today.
00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:32.479
Well, I appreciate it, man.
00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:34.879
Let's shoot, let's jump right in.
00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:43.680
Uh, I just mentioned that you've lived a life of high-stakes performance from your planned days at Oral Roberts and in Alabama to the pressures of BNC A.
00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:55.039
Looking back at those formative years, uh, what was the grind that really kind of built the foundation of who you are today, coach?
00:02:55.360 --> 00:03:03.360
You know, Thurrell, I was lucky, very fortunate in that my dad was uh, when I was very young, he was a high school basketball coach and then a small college coach.
00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:07.120
He became an athletic director uh at the University of South Alabama.
00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:12.560
His brother, Mike Gottfried, was the head football coach at Cincinnati and Pittsburgh and Kansas.
00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:14.400
And so I've grown up around it.
00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:19.680
And uh, you know, and I think about you know, my journey, and everybody has their own journey.
00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:27.439
I was lucky and fortunate to be around the gym and in, you know, in the locker rooms and at practices, even when I was young.
00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.159
And, you know, I think that just taught me a lot.
00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:34.479
Uh, I probably didn't even realize what lessons I was learning at the time.
00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:40.240
But um, you know, I watched my dad at some point, even though he had a wonderful career, he was fired at one time.
00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:43.120
My uncle got fired at one time, and there was adversity.
00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:49.680
And I watched those guys bounce back and be resilient and uh pick up the pieces and get on to the next step.
00:03:49.759 --> 00:04:01.039
And so I just have been very lucky uh that I have been around some mentors that laid a foundation for me, I think, that hopefully has helped me, you know, throughout my own journey, my own career.
00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:04.240
You know, you played also at the highest levels.
00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:16.639
If you were drafted to the NBA as well, um that transition from player to the coaching staff at UCLA was kind of a major pivot for you.
00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:25.360
How did that experience teach you to to adapt when your original path probably didn't turn out like you meant it to?
00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:37.040
You know, I was playing back in the old days, Thurl in the in the LA Summer League that was at uh, you know, now it's in Las Vegas, but you know, years ago, and you probably played in it uh potentially there at Loyola Marymount.
00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:47.680
And anyway, I was playing with the Detroit Pistons, and uh the ball began to roll a little bit that I might have a chance to join Jim Herrick's staff at UCLA, even as a graduate assistant.
00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:53.040
I just wanted to get my foot in the door and uh learn and you know start a career.
00:04:53.199 --> 00:05:06.959
And so, you know, it was a little difficult because I thought I had a pretty good chance to make the team with Detroit, but at the same time, you know, here's an opportunity that potentially, you know, I get to start my coaching career at a school like UCLA.
00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:10.319
And so I kept saying to myself, how do you turn that down?
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:23.519
You know, I don't know that I want to because I, you know, the the history of UCLA with John Wooden, and even though that was years before us, you know, just associating my name with UCLA, I thought would be so powerful.
00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:25.279
And it turned out to be that way.
00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:36.959
And um, so anyway, I I was uh, you know, we all play, and at some point the ball does stop bouncing and it stops at some point earlier, later, but for all of us it did.
00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:42.800
But for me, it just made it a really easy transition because I wanted to coach.
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:45.519
That was uh something I always wanted to do.
00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:47.600
And now here I've got this opportunity.
00:05:47.839 --> 00:06:02.160
So uh it was something I jumped on and uh never looked back, and uh it ended up being a uh just a sensational move to be associated uh with UCLA, and then the success we had there was was terrific as well.
00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:05.279
And and and you know, we never know what lies ahead.
00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:08.079
It's it's really about the choices we make as well.
00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:13.199
You said it was an easy transition, but wasn't an easy choice at that time.
00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:14.879
Because I know you love playing.
00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:17.600
Yeah, I did, and and it's a great question, Thurl.
00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:19.360
It was hard, to be quite honest.
00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:20.319
It was very difficult.
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:22.959
And I had a lot of nights where I went back and forth in my mind.
00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:30.800
And the funny thing was, an interesting story is that you know, Jim Herrick had just gotten the job and we were talking back and forth and back and forth.
00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:34.800
And you know, finally one night he asked me, he said, Are you done playing?
00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:39.199
Because he didn't want to bring me on the staff, and then all of you know, a year later I'd go back to playing.
00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:41.519
And so, you know, I made the decision right then.
00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:44.160
I said, Coach, if you want me to come to UCLA, I'm done.
00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:54.319
Now, the interesting thing was, thorough, we still had about three or four games left in the summer league, and it just so happened this is how funny things happen in life, I made the decision.
00:06:54.639 --> 00:07:02.160
I was going to UCLA and I was going to coach, and the very next night we were playing uh the Lakers and they had just drafted David Rivers.
00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:03.680
This was 1988.
00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:06.959
Oh, yeah, and uh first round draft pick out of Notre Dame.
00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:14.480
And anyway, uh shortly into the game, Dick Versace was our head coach, and he looked down the bench and he said, Mark, let's go.
00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:20.160
And I went in the game, and on that day, Thurrell, I had the best day of the whole summer league.
00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:22.240
I had 14 points and eight assists.
00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:26.560
And now, you know, I go back to the hotel, I'm scratching my head, like, wait a minute, hold on here.
00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:32.639
And I remember Bob Ferry was the uh general manager of the uh, at that time, it was the Washington Bullets.
00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:38.959
And uh we were walking down the hall in the uh LAX Marriott, and he said, Mark, I want to bring you to camp.
00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:41.120
And now I'm thinking, oh my God, what did I do?
00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:49.040
But the truth of the matter is my heart was in coaching, and I just didn't want to pass on an opportunity uh like UCLA.
00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:58.319
And so even though it was hard, thorough, I knew in my gut in the long term that was going to be something that was gonna be really good for me.
00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:00.000
Well, it was great for you.
00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.360
You racked up a storied coaching career.
00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:07.120
Um you're an 11-time NCAA tournament coach.
00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:10.800
And the level that level of consistency is very rare.
00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:23.759
What was the one thing you had to do maybe every single season to keep your teams mentally tough enough to reach that prestigious stage?
00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:30.959
Well, you know, first of all, Thor, I I'm very uh wise in the fact that, you know, good players always help us.
00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:35.279
You know, I I wish I'd have, although we're similar in age, you know, I wish I'd have coached you.
00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:41.360
You are such a great player, and uh you had a phenomenal college coach and uh Jim Valvano.
00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:51.519
But, you know, for us, you know, when it's part of you know the whole picture, even when I talk about leadership and for performance, and I do that a lot now, you know, is building the right team.
00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:54.639
And that started for me, that started with my coaching staff.
00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.879
I wanted to build the best uh staff that I possibly could.
00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:01.840
And everybody brought something different to the table.
00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:06.480
And I always wanted my assistant coaches to hope and desire to become head coaches.
00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:07.840
I wanted them to do everything.
00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:17.919
I didn't want them to be so laser focused on just defense or just offense, but you know, to really immerse themselves to where they are a potential head coaching candidate.
00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:23.840
And I've had a number of guys do that, and that was very exciting for me to watch guys, you know, go on in their careers.
00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:29.039
And then obviously in in sports, you know, the the lifeblood of your program is your players.
00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.279
And I loved uh the guys.
00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:42.960
And you know, Thorrell, I look back now and you know, I'm a little bit older, and some of the guys I coach, they're in their 40s now, you know, mid-40s, and they're married and children and they have good jobs and careers.
00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:46.080
And really, truly, Thorrell, that's what kind of fills my cup.
00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:57.120
You know, I look back and the relationships and the phone calls that I have now with some of the guys, and we'll laugh about things and situations, but I love that part of it.
00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:08.559
I loved, you know, really getting to know our guys and helping them hopefully reach their dreams and their goals and the things they wanted to do in life, you know, along with winning, obviously, while where we were.
00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:14.799
So that that was the probably the key thing for me and the and the most enjoyable part of it for me.
00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:19.120
Well, you just talked about the epitome really of player development.
00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:21.600
Um that was my next question as well.
00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:34.159
In an era where players are often focused on that that highlight reel, how did you teach your players to kind of fall in love with the boring parts of the game?
00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:37.440
Sometimes the the defense, the fundamentals, the crit.
00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:42.159
Uh what was your your your strategy there?
00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:47.440
That kind of goes back, Thurl, to when I was at UCLA, and I was so lucky.
00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:48.639
I was so fortunate.
00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:54.559
I feel blessed beyond my wildest dreams that you know I got to develop a relationship with John Wood.
00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:57.600
Now he was older at the time, he was in his 80s.
00:10:57.759 --> 00:11:16.559
He lived to be 99, but you know, I had the opportunity to go to his house, Thurl, and we'd sit on the couch and we would talk and just talk about, you know, not necessarily X's and O's and how to break a 221 press, but it was more of the leadership and the integrity and all the things he wanted to teach.
00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:18.799
And so I was so, so lucky.
00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:24.639
But I remember him saying to me one time, you know, he had a funny little quote that kind of stuck with me.
00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:31.919
And, you know, he said, uh yard by yard, life is hard, but inch by inch, life's a cinch.
00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:40.080
And I remember sitting there that day thinking, you know, it's just the little steps every day that we all make that improve ourselves.
00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:57.360
It's not these gigantic, massive steps every single day, but you know, even in practice, it's just developing those fundamentals and then working on those fundamentals over and over and over again until where you started to see your improvement, but it's really small steps at a time.
00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:06.240
And I think so many times in life, we want to, you know, we want to hit the grand slam, we want to hit that you know, home run, we we want to do all that and we want it to happen today, like now.
00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:16.240
But the reality is where we really develop as players or people or as coaches or administrators or leaders is just the day-by-day improvement.
00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:25.519
And so I remember Coach Wooden telling me that, and it sunk in, and it it I think it really made a difference in how I tried to approach uh myself as a coach.
00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:32.720
I want to get into really the crux of what you're doing now, but I do want to ask you about the state of the game.
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:37.679
Today has changed drastically with the transfer portal, obviously, and NIL.
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:39.600
Someone who's coached for decades.
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:44.559
What's your honest take on the current state of the game, college game right now?
00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:49.200
You know, Thurrell, I think we all, you know, the game always involves it always evolves.
00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:49.759
It does.
00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:52.879
Things change, it's never the same as it once was.
00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.039
And so I understand that.
00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:57.600
And uh I tell this to people a lot.
00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:02.000
You know, I like the fact that guys are able to make some money in college.
00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:02.639
I really do.
00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:18.960
I I have felt for a long time that uh, you know, when I'm coaching at NC State, Gerald Mamater, and I've got a great player at TJ Warren, and his jersey's in the bookstore, and it's his name on the back with his number that somehow he's not uh getting compensated for that.
00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:20.240
That always bothered me.
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:23.840
And so I like the fact that guys are able to be compensated.
00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:34.320
Now, at the same time, I will tell you that, you know, paying a guy$4 million or$5 million for one season in college, I think the the uh the train is off the tracks on that.
00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:56.080
I don't know that that's something we should be doing because I've always felt like college, those college years, it's a train, it's a transitional time in all of our lives where we go from being in high school and living at home, and then you have this transition period in college, and then you become a professional or you go to the workplace and you become an adult and a husband or a wife or whatever.
00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:58.720
So that college experience is wonderful.
00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:09.360
Now, at the the the part that probably bothers me more than anything is the ability to transfer every single year and go in the portal.
00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:15.840
And I personally I'd be in favor if you got to transfer one time without sitting out or if there was a coaching change.
00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:39.039
But watching guys just every single year change schools, it really kind of breaks my heart, Thor, because I look back and I'm I would venture to say you might agree with this, but the relationships that you build in college with your teammates and your coaches and your classmates and your friends when you're there for three or four years, I think those are invaluable.
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:40.960
I don't think you can put a price tag on that.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:44.000
There's no monetary price tag you could put on that.
00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:46.639
And also, we've all gone through it.
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.360
We all wanted to start and be superstars as freshmen.
00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:50.639
Well, that doesn't always happen.
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:58.559
And so you work and you improve and you get better, and then you get to play more as a sophomore and then as a junior, and you know, that's important to me.
00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:04.320
Yeah, so when I see guys just, hey, I'm not playing very much as a freshman, I'm out, I'm bored, I'm in the portal, I'm in a portal again.
00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:09.759
And you look up and you see guys that have been in four schools in four years or five schools in five years.
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.720
I personally I don't see the benefit of that.
00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:14.559
I I'm not a fan of that at all.
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:16.559
So that's kind of my my take on it.
00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:20.240
And you just touched on something, which is going to be my next question.
00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:28.639
Is it is it harder for coaches today to build that team first attitude with the way things are structured now?
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:31.039
And you can get players to commit.
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:31.440
Yeah.
00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.360
It's just based on talent and money.
00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:46.639
Yeah, and you know, Thorrell, the guys that I speak to, and I've got a lot of friends obviously coaching, you know, it it kind of saddens me when I hear him say this, but it's again, it's part of the reality of today is that you know, they build a one-year team.
00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:52.080
This is just a one-year transactional team, and then we got to rebuild it next year.
00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:54.320
We may have some guys stay, go in the portal.
00:15:54.399 --> 00:16:01.759
And I often tell people, you know, it would be like in pro sports, and you know, obviously you had a wonderful career in the NBA or Major League Baseball.
00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:07.279
If every player was a free agent every single year, it'd be chaos, it'd just be chaos.
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:14.879
And again, so I think that part is difficult for coaches right now, and coaches that are coaching in college, they have to adapt.
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:16.559
There's no question about it.
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:28.639
But um, I think a lot of coaches, especially the the guys in our generation, they put value on those relationships that they built for for, and people forget this too, Thurl.
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:38.000
You have to remember, and I'm sure this might have been the case in your situation, is I started recruiting a lot of guys when they were sometimes freshmen in high school or sophomores or juniors.
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:42.639
So I've recruited them for two or three years, and then I get to coach them for two or three years.
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:52.960
And so that window is now a five or six or seven-year window that we've been somewhat together, and uh that has drastically changed.
00:16:53.039 --> 00:17:02.879
And so um, anyway, that kind of breaks my heart a little bit because I was a fan and I'm still a fan of college basketball, but some of those things maybe don't sit as well with me personally.
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:05.359
No, I appreciate your candy this coach.
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.839
Let's talk about this uh performance strategist career.
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:16.079
You've pivoted from coaching 19-year, coaching 19-year-old athletes to speaking to corporate executives.
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:24.319
What's the biggest coaching secret you've learned that applies equally to the basketball locker rooms and boardrooms?
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:30.000
Well, let me just say this first, Furl, is when I coached, you know, obviously we want to win.
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:35.279
Everybody wants to win, but at the same time, I want to have an impact on those kids in my locker room.
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:43.839
I I want to impact them in a positive way that as when they leave our program, that they're better, uh, better players, better people, the whole thing.
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:49.759
So now I think the the joy for me, Furl, is I get to stand sometimes in front of two and three hundred people.
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:56.160
It could be a sales meeting, and you know, I've spoken at hotel sales meetings and tech company sales meetings.
00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:07.200
And, you know, now I have the opportunity to impact hundreds of people, you know, through standing there and sharing what I believe helps all of us to develop the best versions of ourselves.
00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:15.839
And when I talk about, you know, leading what I call the GID approach, the get it done mindset, you know, it it truly is built on grit.
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:31.920
And, you know, the the grit that we developed, you know, um going through those difficult time periods, the ups and the downs and the resilience and the consistency that we all have to have, and then the integrity part where, you know, we've all made mistakes.
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:33.759
I've made them in my life, made big ones.
00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.720
But what do we do when the compass is broken?
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:38.079
How do we fix it?
00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:48.160
Because it'll get broken at times, and we all sometimes make decisions, we're all human beings, but then also that desire, you know, and the love for what you're doing.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.359
I mean, if you don't love what you're doing, it's gonna be difficult.
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:55.119
But if you do love what you're doing, boy, that that's like fuel.
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:58.240
That's like fuel in the tank, and it pushes through every decision.
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:02.960
So in every organization, Thor, I've learned this, we're all people.
00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:12.559
Um, we all can kind of fall into life, um, somewhat get complacent at times, somewhat be mediocre at times.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:27.759
And how do we, or how do I help individuals and companies strive to perform at the highest possible level they can while, you know, maintaining a high level of integrity, you know, leading with grit, desire, all those things.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.799
And so for me, it kind of really fills my cup.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:35.039
You know, I'm not in a locker room, you know, it's not an intimate session at times.
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:35.359
Yeah.
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:41.359
But boy, is it fun to see people that uh, you know, the message begins to resonate, and I like that a lot.
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:42.880
That's powerful.
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.039
Well, stay with us.
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:52.880
When we get back here in just a second, um, we're gonna talk about Coach's new book that's out.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:58.000
We'll be right back with more Rise and Grind with Coach Mark Godfrey.
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.160
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00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.480
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00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:33.759
Victory starts within.
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:36.480
Welcome back to Rise and Grind.
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:45.440
We're talking to Coach Mark Garfried, and and uh we just talked about what he's doing across the country.
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:55.039
I would think, Coach, that you're you're doing a lot of traveling right now with with all your speaking, not just uh locally, but uh I'm guessing internationally as well.
00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.440
You know, it's I do in thoroughly it's fun.
00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:02.720
Uh, you know, sometimes it's you kind of make it through an airport and you know that type thing.
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:17.680
But I tell you, when you get to meet people and kind of see where they are at that moment in their lives, and hopefully, again, like we talked about, where I can potentially um, you know, start the engines a little bit, uh, it really, it really uh makes it worthwhile.
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.200
So I don't mind it one bit.
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:28.319
Well, let's talk about your new book uh titled Get It Done, the Playbook for Leading with Grit, Integrity and Desire.
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:30.000
G I D.
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:38.000
In the corporate world, people talk a lot, Coach, about results, but you emphasize integrity and desire.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:45.839
How do you teach a team to balance that hunger for winning with the necessity of doing things the right way?
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:47.519
It's a great question.
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:49.200
And uh thank you so much, throw.
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:50.480
You know, this is my new book ready.
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:51.599
I'm so excited about it.
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.039
And I've that's my first book.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:54.559
I hope to write some more.
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:59.839
Um But you know, uh, it's all part of our journey.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.640
And uh when I speak, Thor, I'm pretty authentic, I'm pretty vulnerable.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:12.559
Uh, I talk about some mistakes I've made in my own life and how I've recovered and how I tried to have resilience.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:17.279
Um, you know, coaches sometimes they always the old saying, we're hired to be fired.
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:18.880
You know, I've been fired.
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.279
Uh it's no fun, it hurts, it's painful.
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:29.119
Um and those things are real, but a lot of us have had things like that in our lives.
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:31.119
We've we've all faced some adversity.
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:35.119
Uh, we've all had difficult things happen to us.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.960
And so for me, um, that's what I try to focus on.
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:41.440
And and Thurrell, I'm gonna take you back real quick.
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.240
It's 2004, the NCAA tournament.
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:46.720
I had a team at Alabama, I was head coach.
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:48.720
Our record was 16 and 12.
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:49.279
How about that?
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.960
And we're waiting on uh selection show Sunday.
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.559
You know, every the whole country's watching, all the teams are getting named.
00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:06.720
And uh one thing I knew was we had the number one toughest strength of schedule that year in the country, but we were the last team to be named, the last one of 64 teams.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.559
We erupted, we were excited, and we had a chance to fly to Seattle and play.
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:15.920
We beat Southern Illinois in the eight-seed, nine-seed game, and now we've got to play Stanford, who is number one in the country.
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:22.400
We're down three at the half, uh 39-36, come out in the second half and throw.
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:24.640
We went on to miss our first 17 shots.
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:26.079
It's a little bit like life.
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:32.079
You know, sometimes the ball is rolling your way, and next thing you know, uh it's just not going in the basket.
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:33.680
And that happens to all of us.
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.519
You know, things start to go awry, and which they did.
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:39.359
And I remember calling timeout through.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:47.200
It was the only time that year I felt like our team walked to the bench, they had their heads down, and I think they felt like this thing is getting away from us.
00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:48.559
We were down, I think, 10 points.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.960
And I remember in that timeout telling them, guys, this is a GID moment.
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:56.559
This is a get it done moment that you're gonna have throughout the rest of your lives.
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:58.319
We can get on the plane and go home.
00:23:58.559 --> 00:23:59.920
We were 16 and 12.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.279
Nobody expected us to be here.
00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:02.559
We won a game already.
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:05.599
We're in the second round, you know, hooray.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:10.559
Or we can embrace this moment, we can have more enthusiasm than we've ever had.
00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:12.799
We're all gonna play our roles better than we ever had.
00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:16.960
We're gonna cheer for each other more than we ever had, and we're gonna find a way to get this done.
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:20.640
And I remember they broke the huddle thoroughly and they went about five feet away from me.
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:22.480
And sometimes, you know, players do that.
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:28.400
They huddled up again amongst themselves, and I could hear them saying, GID time, this is a GID time.
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:34.960
And we came out of that timeout and hit a three-pointer, and another kid, next thing you know, here we come, and we knocked off Stanford.
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:38.000
We beat them 70, 67, they were the number one team in the country.
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:46.000
But those guys, thorough, understood in that moment right there what it really meant when we say this is a GID moment.
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:48.000
This is a get it, and we all have them.
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:49.680
We all have them in our lives every day.
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:52.160
Could be parenting, could be at work.
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:55.359
Um, we got them and they're coming.
00:24:55.519 --> 00:25:01.920
And in those moments, we have to develop that grit and have the integrity and have the desire to fight through those things.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:11.119
So uh that's a little bit of the backstory on where that title came from, but it's something that I I believe in, and I believe that we we all face them and we all have to overcome them.
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:13.279
Coach, you got me fired up with that story.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:17.200
If I had hair, it'd be standing straight up in the head right now.
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:19.680
That was awesome.
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:21.039
That was awesome.
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:29.599
So, as a performance strategist, when you when you walk into a company that's struggling, what's the first thing you look for?
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:31.839
Is it lack of talent?
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:33.200
Is it lack of grit?
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:35.599
Uh what is it and how do you fix it?
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:38.400
You know, most of the time, Thorl, it's like a locker room.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.200
Uh you have to be good to be in the room.
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.440
If you're not good, you're not sitting in the room to begin with.
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:47.119
You're not on the team to begin with.
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:52.640
You know, you've played with great players, and you close those doors in the locker room.
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:57.680
Everyone in there can play, and everybody has a role to play.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:11.279
Sometimes it's it's it's getting certain people to accept their roles and not only accept their role, but then excel within their role to the highest ability that they can.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.480
You know, not every player is Michael Jordan.
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:19.440
Uh, there are guys that are just as valuable in their roles, right?
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.279
But they may not be the superstar.
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:23.279
And that's the same in the corporate world.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:38.480
You know, I've I've walked into uh different rooms, and and I understand that everybody in the room is good, but how do we all come to a place where this company then can rise to another level to where everybody wins in the room?
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:42.400
We all win because we all play a role, no different than in sports.
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:50.799
And as you know, Thurl, you know, growing up in sports, being around sports, and you've spent a lifetime in sports.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:27:05.119
Sports teaches so many lessons about success and failure and hard work and grit and teamwork and roles and uh authority, and there's so many things that we all have learned.
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:19.519
So I try to take each one of those, and usually, you know, there's a lot of conversations leading up to you know that actual opportunity when I stand in front of the group with the leadership and and they'll tell me a little bit where their teams are struggling and where our company is struggling.
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:21.920
And we I'll incorporate that into the speech.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:35.279
But at the same time, my goal is to help those people in the room kind of get reignited to where again they can wake up the next day and they can be the absolute best they possibly can be.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:41.039
And so that's my hope uh when I have the opportunity to speak in front of groups.
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:42.160
Fantastic.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:48.880
You know, and you've also transitioned into some podcasting along with uh your motivational speaking.
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:59.920
Are there any particular core messages that you're sharing with audiences now that you couldn't necessarily share in a locker room full of players?
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:01.519
That's a great question.
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:06.160
You know, in my podcast, Thurl, and you you've been a guest and you were you were sensational.
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:14.799
You know, I think what I try to do, Thurl, is pull out from people um, you know, their stories of their journey.
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:16.799
You know, you had a journey.
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:29.200
Um your guys' run through the NCAA tournament in 1983 at NC State may have changed some of your journey, it might have changed uh what happens in the you know, what happened to you in the future.
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:36.079
And so we and there, I'm sure with all of us, and and you shared some when you were on my show, we've had struggles at times.
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.480
You know, we we've had them, we've all had them.
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:42.000
Uh some of us don't want to talk about them, but we've all had them.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:46.240
And uh we've had those ups, we've had those downs, the downs hurt.
00:28:46.400 --> 00:29:06.960
And sometimes what I what I enjoy doing, and it's been such a blessing for me, because I get to sit and and talk with these uh wonderful, amazing, successful, mostly athletes, and and uh is just learning their stories and what happened along the way to where and who helped them along the way.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:22.319
You know, we all have so many people, Thurl, that have poured into us and they have given us an opportunity, or they believed in us, and they uh and without them, we wouldn't have the success we had.
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:24.079
We just we just wouldn't have.
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:46.240
And you know, again, I don't, you know, I I look back and and uh you know the group you played with at NC State and you played for one of the you know great coaches of all time and Jim Valvano, and the fact he believed in you and he gave you certain opportunities and he gave you the the kind of the wind behind your back at times, you know, to really to propel you.
00:29:46.480 --> 00:30:03.039
Um so we've all had people like that in our lives, and I like to hear how guys uh are so gracious because they do attribute a lot of their success to these certain people, their mentors and people that poured into them.
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:08.960
And so for me, that's really a wonderful joy for me to listen and learn from everybody.
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:14.000
Coach course, as you know, this show's called Rise and Grind.
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:23.519
What does the Rise and Grind mentality look like for you today compared to when you were in the middle of a conference schedule?
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:33.039
You know, the biggest difference, Thor, is you know, when I coached, um you know, I had a team, you know, I I had a coaching staff that was my team.
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:40.400
I love to shut the door at nine o'clock every morning and sit with my coaching staff, and I wanted to hear everyone's opinion.
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:43.839
And I didn't want yes men, I wanted your honest opinions.
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:47.119
Um, I loved that part of it.
00:30:47.359 --> 00:31:03.200
And now, you know, as kind of a I don't know that I would consider myself an entrepreneurial guy, but you know, I'm I'm I'm forging through this, you know, where I have, you know, my daughter helps me here, and I got a couple people, but you know, a lot of times I'm by myself, you know, I travel by myself.
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:05.200
I get on an airplane by myself.
00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:14.000
And you you can remember too, you know, the the fun it is sometimes to travel with that team, to sit in the plane and you know, to joke with one another.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.160
And you know, you have that camaraderie.
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:25.839
So the biggest difference for me probably right now is you know, making sure every day when I wake up, you know, I am going at it and I am pursuing.
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.680
And uh, you know, people ask me sometimes, are you retired?
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:31.119
I I don't like that word at all.
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:36.160
I you know, I feel like it's like yeah, you're you're you're pushing me out to pasture, you know.
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.400
I'm just gonna, you know, I don't like that.
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:40.640
You know, I say this is another chapter.
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:48.160
I have a new chapter in my life that I've embraced that I love, and and I'm gonna tackle this thing every single day.
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:53.359
I'm gonna wake up motivated and uh keep pursuing and pursuing.
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:54.640
And how do I get better?
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:57.119
How do I uh get to a group?
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:01.759
How do I find a way to motivate somebody and and to inspire somebody?
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:04.880
And so that to me, that's a difference, you know.
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:23.279
And you know, that's the one thing in sports that when we all get out of sports at some point, that's the one thing that probably all of us share at common is we miss that you know, that group, that team, that the players, the coaches, the getting on that bus, getting on that plane, going in that locker room, eating a team meal together.
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:24.000
We're always together.
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:26.000
You're always we're always in a big group.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:28.720
And so then we have to adjust out of that.
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:30.720
And so I've had to do the same.
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.440
But uh for me, it's just every single day.
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:39.839
I I know uh what God has called me to do at this point in my life, and I want to do the best I can to fulfill it.
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:55.759
So, along with that, coach, you know, looking back at your entire journey, talked about what an important word that is for everybody from Crestline to the Hall of Fame coaching circles to the boardroom.
00:32:56.160 --> 00:33:04.240
What is it that has kept you showing up when everything sometimes told you to stop?
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:06.720
Wow.
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:08.559
Um wonderful question.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:20.079
You know, you know, throw my my father is 86 years old, and uh there's nobody that has had a more of a footprint on my life than him.
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:20.640
Nobody.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:22.400
And I've been around great people.
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:27.519
I play for a wonderful, wonderful coach, very good coach in Wimp Sanderson, the University of Alabama.
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:31.920
I Jim Herrick gave me my first opportunity to coach at UCLA.
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:39.920
I was around John Wooden, who is, you know, uh, you know, he's on Mount Rushmore of coaches, you know, with what he with what he did.
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:43.200
And I say all that, but then I come back to my father.
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:51.119
And uh, you know, what motivates me every day still, and believe it or not, I'm 62 years old and I still want to make my dad proud.
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:56.400
Uh and so that's kind of a driving force for me every single day.
00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:03.039
And you know, I was with him uh two weeks ago down in Alabama, and I handed him a uh copy of the book.
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:15.519
And and there are stories about my father that are just kind of weaved in and out of the entire book because uh the things, the lessons I learned and how I applied those things, and you know, he put the ball in my hand when I was little.
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.639
And uh, so for me, Thurl, that's that's the motivator every single day.
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:24.480
That's what um gets me excited every day.
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:27.760
And then on top of that, for a lot, Thurl, I've had you know, I have five children.
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:30.880
I've I'm married now with three more stepchildren.
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.400
But my five children, they've always kind of been my why.
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:36.800
You know, why am I doing what I'm doing?
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:39.920
It's those kids who are now you know young adults.
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:46.239
Um but the combination of all those things to me, that that's been that's that's what drives me.
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.000
That's what motivates me every single day.
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:49.280
It's what gets me excited.
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:51.199
And so uh, and I'm thankful for that.
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.360
Very, very powerful coach.
00:34:53.599 --> 00:35:00.320
Um, before I let you go, I'm gonna throw you a few passes here on the lightning round, some questions.
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:04.559
Um, one person, and I think I know the answer to this.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:10.639
Uh, one person who had the biggest impact on your coaching philosophy.
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:16.559
Coaching philosophy, I would say it's Jim Herrick, uh, which he is a disciple of John Wooden.
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:19.280
You know, he but that's the guy, you know.
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:24.719
I I think as a head coach and the success we had at UCLA, we won a national championship in 1995.
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:28.639
I became a believer in most everything we did, almost everything we did.
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:30.960
And I wanted my teams to replicate that.
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:34.639
So as a as a coaching philosophy, it would be Jim Herrick.
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:39.360
Best play from your playbook that every listener should run today.
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:45.039
Well, if you got a great shooter, if you got a great, great shooter, I used to run this play called Corner.
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:47.760
And uh when I was at NC State, it was interesting.
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:50.800
Those six years, Thorl, I had six straight years.
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:56.000
I had three different players make more three-point shots than any anybody else in the ACC.
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:01.599
But we'd run them off screens in the in the on the kind of on the baseline under the basket, right, left, right, left.
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:03.679
And we came out of there with so many great shots.
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:05.920
I I still had to have somebody can make it, though.
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:07.679
I can run the play.
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.079
But I used to tell them, I I'll run the play and I'll get you open, but you got to make it, not me.
00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:13.119
I can't make it for you.
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:20.480
And uh, but uh it was our play called corner, and the and the people in Raleigh will laugh at that one because they used to see me with this one all game.
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:24.159
We're running corner, corner, corner, and uh it was a fun one.
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.360
I saw you do that a lot of times, coach.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.079
Uh next one, toughest gem you ever played, Coach then.
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:44.719
You know, uh Thurl, you know, having taken teams into you know, Kentucky, Syracuse, Louisville, North Carolina, uh, for me, I would just say Cameron indoor.
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:47.039
You know, it's a tough place to win at Duke.
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:55.119
We were fortunate enough to win uh in there one time and uh one at the other places as well, but Duke is is different.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:58.639
You know, it's that old, small, tight, you played in it.
00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:05.599
It's a it's a cracker box where the fans are right on top of you, and they're they're they're loud and they're good, by the way.
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:07.280
Their teams are usually pretty good.
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:16.719
Um, so that one to me was probably the most memorable road win I ever had was going in and and winning at Duke.
00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:18.559
That's huge.
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:23.199
So one habit that kept you focused during the season.
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:24.800
You know what it was interesting?
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:28.079
I'm gonna say, probably, you know, uh working out.
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:35.760
I mean, I it was a habit I built, and I think it's it's one part of life I think people sometimes neglect is their health.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:44.719
And believe it or not, for me, I was at my best as a coach when I was in the best shape, even not playing shape.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:59.760
I wasn't gonna go out and play in a game, but for me, my health, my sleeping habits, believe it or not, which are difficult for all of us, especially you know, leaders who kind of feel like they they're carrying the weight of that company or team or organization on their back.
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:13.280
But that's a habit for me, Thor, that I that I learned early on, and I wanted to always make sure it was a part of my daily routine, because I think um that is something we neglect.
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:14.880
Sometimes people do neglect it.
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:18.079
I don't think we're always at our best unless we're at our best health.
00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:20.079
And so for me, that's a great question.
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:25.920
I've never been asked that question before, but I would say, you know, being in shape and having and getting getting to bed.
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:26.800
Good night.
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:28.800
We stay up too late sometimes.
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:31.840
Go to bed, get some sleep, get up tomorrow, ready to go.
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:39.920
Last one, coach, and maybe the most difficult one with the kind of uh career that you've had.
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:44.480
If you had to describe your career in one word, what would it be?
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:51.519
Thorl, I hope, I hope and pray that that word is impactful.
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:58.960
You know, Thorrell, you know, whether we win 400 games, 500,000, you know, all that's fun.
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.119
It's all fun, it's all amazing.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:11.760
And you know, sometimes people think those things define you, you know, those wins and the NCAA tournament runs or a national championship, and they're they're fabulous.
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:13.199
You were a part of one in college.
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:14.480
They're they're sensational.
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:16.719
There's there's they're wonderful.
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:28.079
But I think as you get older for me, um having an impact on people, having an impact on young people in a positive way, I hope that's the word.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:29.679
I hope it's impactful.
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:40.960
Well, coach, thank you so much for sharing your story and giving us a look at the playbook that has guided you the hardwood to the boardroom.
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:56.079
It's been an incredible look at the evolution of the game, the discipline required to build a winning culture, and also the importance of finding new purpose when final all drugges or whistleblowers, if you will.
00:39:56.320 --> 00:40:06.079
Whether your coaching on the sidelines or speaking to a new audience, your commitment to developing people and leading with grit and integrity is so clear.
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:15.199
To our listeners, remember that Mark shared, remember what Mark shared about those boring fundamentals of success.
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:16.880
It's the daily grind.
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:25.519
It's the discipline and the character that you build when no one's watching that defines who you are when the game's on the line.
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:35.519
If you enjoyed this conversation, please make sure to check out Mark's new book, Get It Done, the Playbook for Leading with Grit, Integrity, and Desire.
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:40.239
And visit him at coachmarkgottfried.com.
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:48.480
Subscribe to the podcast, leave us a review, and share this episode with someone who needs a little motivation today.
00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:54.559
So keep rising, keep grinding, and we'll see you next time on Rising Brind.
