Systemic Trauma and the Indian Act with Bob Joseph

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You're listening to Vancouver co Op Radio cfr OH one
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hundred point five FM. We're coming to you from the
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unseated traditional territories of the Squamish, Muscreham and sleighwy Tooth
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nations around Vancouver, BC. I'm your host, Bernardine Fox, and
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this is this show that dares to change how we
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think about mental health. Welcome to Rethreading Madness.
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Will have Liver been fer No, what the hell I'm
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gonna do? Will? I can't see fine away under over too.
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You're listening to Rethreading Madness on Vancouver cop Radio cfr
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OH one hundred point five FM. I'm Bernardine Fox, and
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today I have the pleasure of speaking with Bob Joseph,
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who is the founder and president of the Indigenous Corporate Training.
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He helps people by guiding training and supporting them in
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their reconciliation journey. Much of what he's about to do
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with us here today so that they were working effectively
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with Indigenous people and changing the world. So a very
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very important conversation to have as people who are white,
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who aren't First Nations and or Indigenous and really want
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to understand what does reconciliation mean. It's a word that
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we have out there. I'm sure we've all heard of it,
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at least here in BC. I have no doubt everybody's
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heard about it, but we don't always understand exactly what
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it means. Bob is a certified Master Trainer, former Associate
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professor at Royal Roads University, and has developed training courses
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in written an award winning best selling book called twenty
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one Things You May Not Know About the Indian Act,
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and that's kind of what we're here to talk about.
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Welcome Bob, Hey, thank you. I can't tell you how
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much I've looked forward to this conversation because I have
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all my own questions about what does the Indian Act mean,
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how did it impact on people, how does it shape
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how white people think about First Nations people, and what
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can we do about it? So I'm really looking forward
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to this conversation. One of the things I want to
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start out with is the word Indian. And of course,
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if you are somebody who's been alive in the last
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twenty years, Indian is not the word to use when
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you're talking about First Nations people. But in your case,
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there is still something called, in quotes, the Indian Act, right, correct?
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Yeah? It still still governs the life of peoples from
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birth to death and defines who they are according to
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a set of rules not laid out by the people themselves,
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but as part of Canada's post confederation assimilation policy, we
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were going to try and assimilate them, and if you
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want to, you need a KPI to track when that
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has actually happened. So we set up a whole system
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of identifying who an Indian was. And for those of
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you that don't know, it's simply means the creation of
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a list, and literally an Indian agent would show up
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at your community one day with a pen and piece
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of paper and they'd ask you for your name, and
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you'd say some Maligalese and they'd say, okay, Bob, Joseph
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it is.
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I'm sorry, it shouldn't laugh, but it's such an outrageous
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thing to do, to literally walk in somewhere and change
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someone's name.
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Like I think it probably wasn't just unique to Indians.
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I've heard similarities with Ellis Island in New York and
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places like that too. It's just a complete lack of
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respect and you know, not even a willingness to try.
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Yes, yeah, no, you're right, absolutely there were lots of
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people who were immigrants who came here and we're told
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you need to have an English name. I think they
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called it.
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Yeah yeah. So basically it means if your name appears
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on a band list, you are a status Indian and
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the goal, of course, is an assimilation process, is to
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get your name off the band list. And now now
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it's become much more complicated because you have status Indians
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who aren't members of bands, and you know, maybe we're adopted,
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and you know, all of those issues that have come
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sort of after that. But at its core, status Indian
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is that that's what it is. Your name appears on
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a band list and the goal is to actually take
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your name off the list, and and that's what we
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see happening. And it was possible for non Indians anybody
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else to get their name on a band list. A
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lot of people probably don't remember this, but prior to
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nineteen eighty five, if a status Indian man married a
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non status Indian woman, she could be from any culture
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in the world, she would gain her status and so
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would their children, right, and it didn't work the same
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for the women Indian women who lost their status through
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marrying non Indian men, and that meant that you had
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to leave the reserve and none of the programs or
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services through Indigenous Services Canada would apply, and that creates
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a whole other set of challenges for the record. You know,
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I think indigenous people's probably the safe ground, you know,
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and I teach are working effectively with Indigenous people's training.
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They ask us all the time, what's the best term anology, Bob,
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And I'll say, well, you know, I think there's a
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lot of best terminology. It does depend and I hate
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using that depends answer. But some Indigenous peoples are totally
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proud to be Indians. They am I'm an Indian, and
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we still see that reflected in some band names in
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the province even right And so it is possible, you know,
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to be working with the Okanagan Indian Band, who's a
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member of that, maybe the Okanagan National Alliance. Those would
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be some kind of examples that I could remember from
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my past days doing a community engagement, you know, And
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so we saw a lot of that change happening sort
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of post nineteen eighty two. But Indigenous People's two words together,
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the s on the end, you know, I think that's
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some good advice. Underneath indigenous peoples you have three main categories,
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the Indian, the Inuit, and Mayti peoples. And I shouldn't
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say the Inuit because the Inuit stands for the people
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translated the people, and so first nations typically would fall
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under Indian in section thirty five of the Constitution Act
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where it defines who who Aboriginal peoples are, which is
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our constitutionally correct terminology here in Canada, there's three groups
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of people. So there you go, quick crack course and rminology.
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I was speaking with a woman, doctor Vickers here about
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Indian residential schools and she and I questioned that because
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that was the terminology she used, and she said that
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it's important to call it an Indian residential school because
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that is what it was.
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Called back then, and it was and it would be
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accurate in the sense of, you know, you know historically
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that that was a definition. Now one of the things I,
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you know, didn't didn't realize is that sometimes other peoples
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went to residential schools, MEETI people's or Inuit, you know,
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depending on how things sort of played out in a region.
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But Indian residential schools definitely the terminology.
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And well, fun fact I am very white, come from
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the prairies of Alberta, and I went to a residential school,
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which I didn't realize it at the time. It was
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not the ones on the list. I mean, you can
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find the list of which ones were terribly abusive and
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which ones were not, and I was in the one
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that was not, and most likely because half the kids
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there were white. Now, the people I know that were
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there with me, who were First Nations, half of them
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were did did say that the things changed when the
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white kids went home for the weekend. I don't know
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what which to what degree, But I always resist saying
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that out loud because it implies something that is not
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true for me. And but anyway, so fun fact about Bernady,
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and it's why I know so many First Nations people
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because I in fact married one of those people in
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that school. So let's talk about the Indian Act. Why
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was it in a When when did it come into being?
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And why is it here? Why? Why? Why is it
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still in existence? Maybe that's too broad a question.
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Yeah, I know, we only have about four hours today.
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Sorry, Okay, let's start with what is it? So? Uh?
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The Indian Act, really, you know, was a consolidation of
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Indian policy, and this Indian policy had been in existence
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before confederation. So Canada becomes a country, and you know
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that what is at eighteen sixty seven and officially becomes
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a country with the passage of the British North America Act.
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Before that, there would have been Indian policy because of
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the Royal Proclamation, and you know, colonial governments, different colonial
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governments were operating over different times in what would become Canada.
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And by the time we confederate, though, Canada has come
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up with a policy that it feels it needs to
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assimilate Indians into the political and economic mainstream of the country,
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and it does mark a pretty big shift in Indian
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policy prior to Canada being a country. Going way back
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to the Royal Proclamation of October seventeen sixty three, we
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would have saw that King George the third would have
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referred to them as the several nations or tribes of
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Indians who with whom we live, and who live under
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our protection, and should not be molested or disturbed in
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a possession of such parts of our dominions and territories
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as not having been ceded to or purchased by us.
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So it's a really important paragraph from the royal proclamation.
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He does refer to them in the same paragraph both
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as Indians and as nations. And what he is doing
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is he's trying to gain control of what would become Canada,
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because at that time, in that era, there was a
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lot of competition for who could gain control over Canada
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and its lands and resources. There were Spanish traders advancing
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northward from Mexico, Russian traders advancing southward from Alaska. So
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if you've ever seen those blue trade beads that people
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will wear as part of their jewelry, we also have
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the British were here. Later on there would be American
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expansionist interest. And what King George the Third had realized
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by seventeen sixty three was that those nations of people
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would hold the balance of power in any military campaigns
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that would be fought. And so specifically he comes out
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of the Battle of Quebec with this idea that you know,
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if it wasn't for the first nations, those nations or tribes,
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this could have gone either way. The British and the
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French were evenly matched on the Plains of Abraham, and
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so his proclamation really is a reflection of that understanding.
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These are valuable military allies, but they're also valuable economic
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allies because at that time they could pick and choose
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who they would sell their for and other products to,
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and they didn't have to sell to just one company
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as it were. And so all of that leads them
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to this Royal proclamation. These are nations or tribes. They
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own the lands that they are using and occupying, and
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they you know, they have the right to fish and
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hunt and to exist as they were. You know that.
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I think Gene Roddenberry you might have borrowed the prime
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directive from the Royal Proclamation when you know King George
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says they're not to be molested or disturbed in the
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possession of such parts of our dominions and territories. So
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a little shout out for the Treki's there.
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Yes, absolutely, And so if people aren't aware who Gene
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Roddenberry is, he is the father of Star Trek for sure,
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a creator and father and continues on to be. But
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we won't divert onto Star Trek. Yeah, So can I
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just ask you a quick question before we go on
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a stimulate I have been doing some research and simulating
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people into your own culture. Was presented to white people,
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and I know this firsthand from where I grew up.
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It was presented as us being kind and generous and
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you know, helping people learn things that they couldn't learn
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because they were primitive or were seen as primitive. That
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that's I needed to take that back, because they weren't primitive,
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and not that primitive would be bad, but it was
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bad in terms of how people how white people saw it.
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But that wasn't really that was what we were told.
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A simulation, was my understanding, and correct me, God, correct
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me if I'm wrong. Was that the government's goal was
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not a simulation for the good of the First Nations people.
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It was a simulation so that they could wipe out
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the term nation, so they could dem the concept of
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nation and therefore right to the land.
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It does have a lot to do with that, you know,
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we think about assimilation, you know, and it was a
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big idea in that eighteen seventy era, right, We often
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referred to, you know, America was the melting pot, right
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and Canada had a lot of those same ideas as
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well as the Commonwealth. And so the idea by eighteen
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sixty seven is that if we could assimilate them, make
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them like everybody else. And this is according to a
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guy who writes the book, doctor Paul Tanada, professor out
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of UBC, who puts together a book called Aboriginal Peoples
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and Politics. And his idea was that if if we
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could get them to assimilate and they did become like
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everybody else, there would be no need to do modern
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treaties in Columbia, there'd be no need to recognize special
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fishing and hunting rights. In fact, all of that would
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have been would have been in assimilation, would have taken
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care of the you know, the cowch And decision and
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modern treaties and the duty to consult that ties projects
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up like the trans Mountain Crossing project and takes it
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from a five billion dollar estimated budgeted project to a
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thirty two billion dollar project. All of that comes from
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this idea that they were supposed to assimilate. And the
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problem for Canada is that it doesn't happen. Nobody had,
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you know, the founding fathers and you know Duncan Campbell Scott,
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some of the architects of Indian residential schools and Indian
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policy around assimilation, actually didn't imagine that you know, they
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didn't think it would. This was a dying race of people.
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They're a primitive culture. This is just this is just
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going to take a matter of time. Starts off in
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sort of fairly good terms, if you will, or some
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ideas I think, which I pick up on from the
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first part of your comments. But when it starts not working,
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that's when it starts to get aggressive. We're going to
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start taking away their kids. We're going to force them
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to learn English, We're going to separate them from their families.
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We're going to overthrow hereditary chiefs and replace them with
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elected chiefs because you can't have a hereditary chief, which
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I find is totally ironic because ding the way you
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govern yourselves is primitive. You shouldn't use those hereditary chiefs.
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You should use an elected chief like we do. And
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I'm thinking, you know, you got a king kind of
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are inherited a chief than ship? I think, you know,
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But it was what we wanted to look at, and
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the whole idea of primitive cultures set sat stage for
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this very you know, soft touch. Always their primitive cultures.
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They live short British lives, and what we're going to
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do is help them today you know, part of our
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reconciliation journey. I would tell people, you know, it wasn't
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particularly helpful. In fact, it was the exact opposite, and
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it was, you know, it was hiding what was really happening,
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you know, or or Indians and other Indigenous people on occasion.
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Yeah, I've also seen examples where the governments, wanting to
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take more and more land, didn't really tell the settlers
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that what was true about what had happened so that
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that land was free, and so they kind of used
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the settlers to take land as well as at the
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same time that they were hurting the First Nations people.
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And I just also want to say that I think
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you're being awfully kind when you describe what they did
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in terms of trying to assimilate, because you know, not
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only just took children, they've committed a genocide. And I'm
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and they continuing to do that. It hasn't really changed.
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And I know you know this. I'm not telling you
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anything you don't know, but I just want to be
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clear that, you know, white people have done some really
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absolutely horrendous things to First Nations people.
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In the name of civilization.
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Yes, and the really really, really bad part of that
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comment is that the more I understand the First Nations
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culture and the more I'm getting it that they were
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way more civilized and then white people were. You know,
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they were you know, they had they had structure and
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ways of dealing with each other that was so much
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more civilized, not just with each other but with the
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land and everything. And of course we're paying the price now.
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So what kinds of things are held in the Indian Act?
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What does it do in terms of real things too? Well,
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you know what I just noticed the time I'm got
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so carried away talking to you. We need to just
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take a little break, but we'll be write back folks.
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Get involved, go to Treecanada dot ca.
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You're listening to Rethreading Madness on Vancouver Coup Radio CFR
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00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:34.519
one hundred point five FM. I'm Bernardine Fox and I'm
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speaking with Bob Joseph about the Indian Act. You wrote
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a book, Bob about Well, you've written a couple of books.
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The one that caught my eye was twenty one Things
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you May Not Know about the Indian Act. So tell
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us what is what does the Indian Act do? And
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what are the things that we need to know about it?
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Yeah, So, first of all, you know, we we build
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on the Proclamation that kind of as the first main
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era of Canadian history. The second main era is when
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we confederate, going back to eighteen sixty seven and we
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see this flip flop in Indian policy. They're going from
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nations or tribes to wards of the crown. So the
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you know, in eighteen sixty seven, we give control over
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Indians and lands reserved for Indians to the federal government,
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and that control would come with a pi dou schary duty.
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There's a legal obligation on the part of Indian Affairs,
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who's just made us wards of the crown to look
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after our interests in doing so. So that's what they
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call fiduciary duty, and it's you know, constitutional commitment really
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this Phi dou schary duty to look after Indians and
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lands reserved for Indians and until they assimilate. And so
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that's what we still to see things coming in. We
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see the creation of reserve lands. So one of the
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things that you mentioned was they had sort of land
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all over the place, and again back to Paul Tennant's
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book Aboriginal Peoples and Politics, he talked about on the
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Lower Mainland, for example, where they'd been living all along
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the river in quite large settlements and you know, surviving
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on fish for millennia upon millennia. But they weren't putting
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the land to its highest and best use. So what
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we started to do was create reserve lands, places that
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couldn't be claimed by settlers or colonists, whatever the preferred
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terminology is. And often those reserve lands were out of
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the way of agricultural activities. So I think about you know,
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chech Halis and some of those communities where you know
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they were actually in a different place perhaps, and so
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you see a lot of that relocation happening onto reserves
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which they don't own. By the way, a reserve was
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actually a holding pen, for lack of a better description,
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A place where we would put them until they assimilate.
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And the ultimate title is in reserve lands has vested
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in her majesty, So they don't own the homes. They
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don't own the houses, they don't own the land. You
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can ask them, though, Bob, do you own that chunk
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of reserve land? A lot of times they'll say yes,
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I do. My family's been here for four generations. But legally,
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technically speaking, they don't own the land that they live on.
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It's merely set aside for their use and benefit. And
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out of that becomes some of the modern problems. Right,
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you don't have a house and land. It's merely set
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aside for your use and benefit. So you can't go
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to the bank and borrow money to get into agriculture
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or fishing or forestry or any of those other things.
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So it starts to do that. The Indian Act actually
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says that reserve of lands aren't subject to seizure under
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legal process, and that was for our protection but you know,
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and you know, protecting us from people who would buy
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our lands or you know, whatever the rationale was, but
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it definitely hindered people. We created lists, you know, status
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Indians and then looked for a whole bunch of other
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rules for how to remove those names from the lists
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and created different categories of status Indian and then support
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cases since to try to clarify what we mean. And
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we also said the way you're governing yourselves, it's not proper.
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They had traditional governments or hereditary chiefs or you know,
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there's all kinds of different social structure. But along comes
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the Department of Indian Defars and says Verdean, the way
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you govern yourselves, that's wrong. You need to elect the
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chief and council. So there are a lot of chief
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and council for every hundred members. If you've got a
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two hundred and five members, you've got one chief and
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one council member. Now here's the deal. People think, well,
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it's democracy, what's wrong with that?
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Well, well let's look at the United States.
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Yeah, the reality is you're you know, if you're a
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chief or a council member or a chief council member,
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you are elected by the people, but you're accountable to
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Indian affairs. They tell you where the money comes from,
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what you can spend it on. They can go after
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you if you're mishandling funds and all kinds of things
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around land and what kind of houses you can develop.
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Like I say, it's a birth to death document.
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I lived on the reserve at one point and very young,
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was sixteen seventeen years old, and one of the things
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that I came away from it, even at that age,
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was how the government had made everybody a child. And
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you know, I was not a political person at that point.
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I was just somebody who could see what was going on.
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So we've understood this from kind of what white people
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were trying to do. Well, how was that different from
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what first nations did before white people came in and
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imposed that.
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Well, we were already pardon me, we were already self governing,
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self determining, and self reliant, and the Indian actors had
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that whole opposite effect. Right, we aren't self determining. Somebody
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in Ottawa gets to tell us whore people are, which
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we believe is wrong. We have the right, pardon me,
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We have the right to name our people, and it
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doesn't it's not granted by Indian Affairs or the federal government.
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We think of it as an inherent right. It's given
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to us by the creator, and so we've always provided
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names and citizenship to our people as opposed to status
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and non status determined by somebody else. We were self governing,
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We had our own forms of governance. And in British
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Columbia here anthropologists will tell you that they were rank
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or hierarchy society governments because on a river like the
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Fraser River, you could support huge populations of people with
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very little effort and very little movement geographically speaking. You know,
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you you build your house in the right place, and
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those official swim right to you and support thousands and
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thousands of people. And whenever you have a lot of
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people in a small area, geographically speaking, you need to
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develop mechanisms to work out the disputes and inevitably occur
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when you got a lot of people in a small area.
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So you've got these rank or hierarchy society governments and
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very advanced and you know, thinking about there are people
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00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:03.000
much longer term thinking than the four year government cycles
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that we're in now. At a principle that they called
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the seventh generation principle. Not everybody called it that, but they,
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you know my experience, they were all thinking, well beyond
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four years, you know, they're thinking more like four, five, six, seven,
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generations and so they had these governance that did that potlatching.
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So I'm a you know, I've got a chief's name
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and a seat in our house, but i haven't done
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my first potlatch, which is defined as a gift giving ceremony,
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the definition of a potlatch. And what I'll do is
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I'll stand up and I'll hand out names, and I'll
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share songs, dances, cresps. I'll talk about our territory and
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our governance, and I'll do it in front of the
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whole community. And at the end of the potlatch, I'm
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obligated to give gifts to all of the participants, the chiefs,
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the matrix arcs, participants. And and if you were there
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and you accepted my gift, you were accepting that I
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had the right to claim those names, those songs, those dances,
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that territory. And so it was a very important central distribute,
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you know, distribution of wealth models for us and we
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do you know, I think it was, you know, different
448
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than some of the political systems we see today. You
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know where very different, yes, where we're you know, we
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were in it in order to gain rank as a
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qua Quaki wac hereditary chief you had to give away,
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and the more you gave away, the higher your rank,
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which sent the message to the people that you weren't
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in it for your your own benefit, but you were
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in it for their benefit. So the ultimate status symbol
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of a quaquakiac hereditary chief was the shirt on your
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back in the house you lived in, having distributed all
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the wealth to the peoples. And then so perhaps a
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little bit different that way.
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And yeah, one of the ways that that is very
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00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.400
different is that you know, in white culture power having rank.
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As you're talking about, power is power over power to decide,
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power to control, power to take, And what you're talking
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about is recognizing that power is responsibility and that that
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is so much more accurate because when you have power,
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you do have a responsibility to the people around you.
467
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But it's not always translated that way in white culture.
468
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I think it's a Spider Man quote, isn't it. With
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great power comes great responsibility.
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Yes, but I suspect lots of white people have no
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idea what that means. Quite frankly, so we do.
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We do have responsibility, so the right to determine self government.
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And then most importantly, we were we were self reliant
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in fact, some of the old Indian agents said, you know,
475
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when they were talking about our culture before the full
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force of assimilation, the full legislative authority of the Gadadian
477
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.079
state hit them, they were saying, these are some of
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00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:16.039
the most independent, hardest working people that I've ever seen
479
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:19.039
and met. You know, we'd love to get back to that,
480
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.519
but right now we're in places that we can't borrow
481
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.119
money to get into the economy. There's a discrimination, you know,
482
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:31.039
all kinds of things that really hinder our participation in
483
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.440
the political and economic mainstream. So those are some of
484
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:36.400
the learnings I had coming out of high school. Why
485
00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:39.599
are we? Are we lazy? Really? Like why do we
486
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.720
think talking about health? For example, why are we why?
487
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:45.880
Why is substance of you such a problem? And then
488
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:51.839
you realize it's primarily residential schools that you know, cause
489
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:54.200
the trauma that you know, like a lot of my
490
00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:57.160
relatives came out of those schools and poured themselves into
491
00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:59.359
the bottom of a bottle and never came out. And
492
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:02.119
I often wondered why, and it was like, are we
493
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:02.720
just weak?
494
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:02.920
You know?
495
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.799
Some of the some of the some of the tropes, right, oh,
496
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:08.359
they just don't have a resistance. They don't have a
497
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:12.400
gene now. It's because they were extremely traumatized.
498
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:16.200
Yes, and extremely traumatized. I just want to highlight that word,
499
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:17.920
extremely traumatized.
500
00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:22.519
And the effects are intergenerational. They passed out through the
501
00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:26.880
genes into into the next generation and and so you know,
502
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.599
some of the some of the challenges that communities have,
503
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:32.920
I just see it's just as a result of trauma,
504
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:37.440
and especially for kids I think about, I want, I
505
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:40.240
hope I say his name properly. Good Bore Matt Ate,
506
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:44.640
Matt Tate, Matt take yeah, Matt takeo. You know he
507
00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:47.279
was talking to Joe Rogan on a podcast one time
508
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:50.440
and he said, you know, Joe said, what is ADHD?
509
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:55.079
And you know the response was, well, Joe, you're a fighter.
510
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:57.319
You know what happens if you're walking down the street
511
00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:59.680
and somebody challenges you? And Joe said, well, either fight
512
00:32:59.799 --> 00:33:04.319
or run? And you know the response was that is
513
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:08.160
a normal range of response. But what happens if you're
514
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:12.640
little and you can neither fight nor run? And that's why,
515
00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:16.200
you know, that's what ADHD is. And help me understand
516
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:18.400
a lot about communities as well that you know, the
517
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.319
kids that were in those schools could neither fight nor
518
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:24.079
run till they got older. And you know, so you
519
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:27.119
can imagine some of the some of the mental health
520
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.319
challenges coming out of that whole process.
521
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:33.880
And also I just want to really sort of point
522
00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:36.960
out as well the things that we know from Amnesty
523
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:41.759
International and the ideas of torture is that it's not
524
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:45.480
just the kids going through the residential schools and then
525
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:48.880
of course becoming parents and then having this experience, which
526
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.319
is that taking away someone's children is one of the
527
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:56.759
worst forms of torture that you can do. So, you know,
528
00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:00.319
you talk about coming out of the schools and finding
529
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:04.759
a solution with a bottle, it also would have been
530
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:08.960
true for the first parents who were experiencing having their
531
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:13.639
children taking away. And I would imagine that for a
532
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:18.480
First Nations family that that is even more traumatizing than
533
00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:23.719
in white culture. And I maybe making a comparison that
534
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:24.239
isn't there.
535
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.679
But you know, when we were when I was doing
536
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:30.719
my workshops and I have been doing them since nineteen
537
00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:33.559
ninety four, sometimes, you know, we talk about residential schools
538
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:36.679
and I would hear people say, oh, man, if somebody
539
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:38.639
came to take my kids, I'd kill them. I would
540
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:42.119
do anything and everything. No, you wouldn't. You couldn't. You're
541
00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:45.599
absolutely powerless, which is what need you know. Prime Minister
542
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:49.679
Harper's apology so poignant. He talked about powerless people.
543
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:55.880
Yeah, we just need to take a little break, but
544
00:34:56.039 --> 00:34:57.519
we'll be right back. Folks, don't go away.
545
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:03.360
Air Toney up, quigate Euons Queen Sna Hi, everybody, my
546
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:05.920
name is quigate Yuon's. I'm a member of the Squamish
547
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.400
Nation and the Yaglanis Klan of the Hyda Nation. You're
548
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:13.119
listening to co Op Radio CFRO one hundred point five FM.
549
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:17.519
We live, work play and broadcast from the traditional ancestral
550
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:21.360
and unseeded territories of the Musquiam, Squamish and Sleavetooth nations.
551
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:23.960
You're listening to me Threading Madness on Vancouver co Op
552
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:27.960
Radio cfr oh one hundred point five FM. I'm Bernardine Fox,
553
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:30.519
and I'm speaking with Bob Joseph, author of twenty one
554
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:34.280
Things You Should Know About the Indian Act. Bob, this
555
00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:38.480
has been a fascinating conversation. I kind of generally touched
556
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:40.119
on a whole lot of things. In my God, I
557
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:43.360
could talk to you for hours, but let's pull this
558
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:47.840
back into given all of that, how has what has
559
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:52.280
gone happened because of the Indian Act, because of oh
560
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:54.840
the racism and all of the stuff that happened to
561
00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.800
First Nations people here in Canada. How does it impact
562
00:35:58.880 --> 00:35:59.920
on people's mental health?
563
00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:05.400
Uh, well, we were talking about it just a few
564
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.760
moments ago. You know, the you know, I think about
565
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:12.639
substance abuse and the trauma of childhood and then the
566
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.400
intergenerational passing of that trauma through the genes to kids
567
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:21.159
and grandkids, and I think that's probably you know, some
568
00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:24.199
of the some of the bigger things that that happened.
569
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:27.280
You know, that's just on one issue. Residential schools and
570
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:32.880
banning of the potlatch was traumatic for for the Quaquaki
571
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:37.960
walk for example, where are you know they said, you know,
572
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:40.239
the way you're governing yourselves was wrong, which was in
573
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:43.519
a potlatch. They forced us to elect the chief and council.
574
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:48.280
And then because there was there was some religious zealousy
575
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:51.039
here too, right, this was the you know, the potlatch
576
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:54.239
would have had all these masks and dances, and it
577
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:57.840
was somebody other than the god we knew, right, as
578
00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:01.440
a as a larger society, of a colonizing society. It
579
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:04.880
was a different god, and so we had to stamp
580
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:08.440
that out. So we get pretty aggressive. We bend potlatches,
581
00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:13.679
which sends them underground, but they would still catch people potlatching.
582
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:19.159
And the Indian agent, you know in in In and
583
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:24.440
along the coast, was often very religious, very Christian, would
584
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:29.000
confiscate regalia, you know, donate it to public collections, sell
585
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:34.880
it to private collectors, and and even burned some of
586
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:38.159
that stuff and effigy, you know, like there was just
587
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:40.679
so much potlatch regalia. They couldn't take it all, so
588
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:42.840
they took what they thought was most valuable, burned the
589
00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:47.280
rest and and a lot of that collection. Which is
590
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:50.360
the euphanism for you know, when I used to go
591
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:54.199
to the Royal you know, the Royal Museum in Victoria,
592
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:59.920
you'd see you know, qua quaku waku utuquah mask collect
593
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:06.159
to nineteen twenty seven. Collected was just a euphemism for
594
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:10.119
what actually had happened. It was confiscated and that and
595
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:13.119
then donated to a public collection. You know, in a
596
00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:15.280
lot of cases, not all some of it was purchased.
597
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:18.440
But you know, right now there's a whole process of
598
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:22.559
repatriation going on in Canada and around the globe where
599
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:25.159
people are trying to get their stuff back that was taken.
600
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:27.840
It would be like, you know, like going into the
601
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:30.599
Parliament and taking the math of arm or the coat
602
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:33.039
of arms and the meath and all the all of
603
00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:35.960
the stuff that you valued and had high symbolic value.
604
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:38.400
I would take that one step farther. That would be
605
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:41.440
like going into the Vatican and taking artifacts like the
606
00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:47.639
you know, the pieces from the cross of that he
607
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:51.440
was crucified on, or you know, these very sort of
608
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:56.760
sacred objects. And I think people don't understand that. They
609
00:38:56.960 --> 00:38:59.280
you know, they think it's just a mask. But the
610
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:04.800
mask is viewed with all kinds of meaning. So we're
611
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:09.599
talking about people coming in and taking regalia, taking the culture,
612
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:12.199
the things that's you know, sacred parts of a culture,
613
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:16.559
burning them, cutting hair, removing language. Which is another thing
614
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:20.199
that happened in residential schools is that people were you know,
615
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.880
not allowed to speak their language. So and language is
616
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:26.320
so important in a culture because it is there's so
617
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:31.000
many words, and there's it's just that resonance of in
618
00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:35.400
people's lives, and it was you know.
619
00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:39.599
To add to that arresting politicians, right, they were taking chiefs,
620
00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:43.440
sending them to o'calla where they would slop the pigs.
621
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:46.239
I mean, you know that stuff that I hear in
622
00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:50.400
the oral society. Plus it was you know, just some
623
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:54.440
of it was documented in different books. Right, So we
624
00:39:54.760 --> 00:40:00.239
would never arrest politicians today, would we have? But not
625
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:00.880
in Canada.
626
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:07.199
We're looking across the border wondering when that's about to happen.
627
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:11.320
But no, in a democracy, you would not be doing that.
628
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:14.199
Yeah, you know. Now now you get guys wanting to
629
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.039
go after Obama and you know, just like a man.
630
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:21.199
But anyways, that that was happening had full support, you know,
631
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:27.960
low level of knowledge maybe in the general population and language,
632
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:30.679
you know, very forceful about the language. If you can
633
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:34.159
get people to stop learning their language, and and you know,
634
00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:38.360
you know, go check out the Truth and Reconciliation Commission,
635
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:41.800
you know sort of resources and just some of the
636
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:45.719
punishment for speaking language. You know, I just it's so harsh,
637
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:52.599
like oh god, yeah, like physical, torturous, extreme violence to
638
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:56.239
try and stop kids from speaking their language. And the
639
00:40:56.320 --> 00:40:58.079
problem was you know, for a lot of them, and
640
00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:00.199
it comes through, but you really have to look for it.
641
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:04.440
Is they had never spoken My dad had never spoken
642
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:06.960
another language until he got there, and now he was
643
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.920
being punished. He had to learn English right quick, because
644
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:13.960
you know, he still still has problems hearing today because
645
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:16.639
he would get slapped pretty hard when he was five
646
00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:21.280
or six years old, right for speaking in Quaquala. But
647
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:24.400
he said, I just didn't I didn't know English. I'd
648
00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:28.920
even know English existed. That was a unique thing about
649
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:32.880
the West Coast here in Canada was that, you know,
650
00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:37.599
the assimilation process started on you know, on the other
651
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.719
side in the on the Atlantic side, and slowly worked
652
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:43.880
its way here. So there were still Indigenous people here
653
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:48.559
on the Northwest coast living free of control from the
654
00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:51.800
Department of Indian Affairs and Indian Act legislation into the
655
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:56.079
late eighteen hundreds, so that the historical experience much closer
656
00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:59.440
than say, you know, Ontario, where they had three four
657
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:04.280
hundred years of inter relationships, right, So there's some differences
658
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:04.920
that way too.
659
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:13.920
Were there any indigenous peopils that did expire that's not
660
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:15.199
the right word vanish.
661
00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:19.519
Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to chuckle, but it reminds
662
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:23.199
me of a group of people called the Snake's Nation,
663
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:25.719
and it's a more recent example that goes back to
664
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:30.239
the fifties and I was working for a company doing
665
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:34.039
consultation and we got a we got a sort of
666
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:37.119
the memo from the province saying here's the here's the
667
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.199
ten communities we think you should talk to, right, And
668
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.719
so we sent letters saying we want to talk to
669
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:44.360
you about some work that we have to do. And
670
00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:50.239
we did a like a round table session. And you know,
671
00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:52.599
at the start of the first meeting, who are you
672
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:54.280
what do you hope to get out of this process?
673
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:57.800
You know, good community engagement type stuff, right, And we
674
00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.239
got the ten people that we sent letters to, We've
675
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:03.239
got this one extra one. Hi, I'm Marilyn. I'm from
676
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:07.119
the Snake's Nation, our territories, the Arrow Lakes region. We're
677
00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:10.360
really glad you're here to consult with us about our
678
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:14.880
Section thirty five rights. And so we're looking forward to
679
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:19.920
this whole conversation. And you know, but which was great
680
00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:22.119
our our people on the other side. You know, we
681
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:24.920
had this list of ten communities and we're flipping through
682
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.840
the papers madly to go who's snakes snakes, you know,
683
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:31.639
and we had we had nothing. So we politely said,
684
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:34.239
can you tell us a little bit more about the
685
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:39.039
Snake's Nation. Yep uh. A while back, Indian Affairs declared
686
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:43.320
us administratively extinct. We're still here, we're still a people,
687
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:45.800
we still have our territory and we're looking forward to
688
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:48.360
you talking to us about our Section thirty five rights.
689
00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:52.320
And so we were, you know, back to the back
690
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:54.840
to the Mother Corporation, and you know, there was a
691
00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:57.320
little bit of panic there. I think on our side,
692
00:43:57.400 --> 00:43:59.239
what do we do, Sanaanks, who are they?
693
00:43:59.400 --> 00:43:59.559
You know?
694
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:05.360
And so we decided, because Indian Affairs had declared them
695
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:08.239
administratively extinct, we decided to go talk to them. And
696
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:10.920
so we show up at Indian Affairs on Albernie Street.
697
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:13.719
It was still called that then, it's Indigenous Services Canada
698
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:18.360
now and they said, hey, the Snakes Nation recently showed
699
00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:23.000
up at a consultative table and they told us, you
700
00:44:23.079 --> 00:44:27.960
guys had declared them administratively extinct and we're just unsure
701
00:44:28.119 --> 00:44:32.920
what this means for consultation and any ideas that you
702
00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:36.880
might have, you know, for us. And the interesting thing
703
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:40.239
was they showed up with you know, the lawyers and
704
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:45.440
you know, senior civil servants right, and the answer was, wow,
705
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:48.760
you guys couldn't have stumbled upon something bigger if you tried.
706
00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:53.320
I mean, the policy implications, the legal ramifications, the financial
707
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:59.320
considerations are staggering in what you're we're talking about. And
708
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:01.679
the response I can still remember it was something along
709
00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:05.760
the lines of we would be hard pressed to talk
710
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:09.039
to the snake's nation. It was like, so they weren't
711
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:11.559
even giving us an answer. The company I was working for,
712
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:14.079
we wanted them to tell us what to do. They
713
00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:18.079
were saying what they wouldn't do, which we thought was interesting, right,
714
00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:19.280
that was and they.
715
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:22.760
Wouldn't do it because of the legal and financial implications and.
716
00:45:23.239 --> 00:45:27.199
Yeah, all of that policy broad policy, financial, legal, you know,
717
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:31.599
so you know this was this was a crown corporation.
718
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:34.800
We're you know, we do have another level of government
719
00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:37.039
to go visit. We went to the province, the attorney
720
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:39.920
general and said, hey, this is this is what we're
721
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:43.639
wrestling with here. And oh, by the way, we've talked
722
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:46.039
to the FEDS, and so we're just wondering what it means.
723
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:49.920
They're declared administratively extinct, which means they're not here extinct, right,
724
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:53.880
but they're demanding to be talked to. And Section thirty
725
00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:56.159
five says you know, we should talk to them. And
726
00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:01.679
so the province said, what did the FEDS say? And
727
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:03.320
so we told them and they were like, that's what
728
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:05.800
we're saying. And we're like okay, And we go back
729
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:09.039
to our company and we just happen to have rights
730
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:12.679
and title lawyer, and you know, we're sort of kicking
731
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:15.480
it around, kind of trying to make a decision talk
732
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:17.840
or don't talk to the Snake's nation. And I can
733
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:22.400
remember the lawyer said, Hey, look, you know, i'm your lawyer.
734
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:25.199
I'm on your side, so just hear me out. You know,
735
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:29.239
I think I think we should talk to them, because
736
00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:31.800
as your lawyer, I have to defend you if we
737
00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:36.599
decide not to talk to them. And he said, and
738
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:38.840
he was starting to be a little bit sarcastic, he said,
739
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:40.960
I don't know if you've ever been to courtroom, but
740
00:46:41.239 --> 00:46:43.920
they're going to be on that side with their lawyers
741
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:45.480
at a table. We're going to be on this side
742
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:47.559
of the aisle with our lawyers at a table. In
743
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:49.039
front of us will be a judge, and it will
744
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:51.480
be some kind of gate and you know, some places
745
00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:54.159
for the gallery for people to sit. And he said,
746
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:57.599
the problem that I have as your lawyer is We're
747
00:46:57.639 --> 00:46:59.880
going to go in there and I'm going to have
748
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:05.519
to argue they're not here, and the nation is not there.
749
00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:08.679
The nation is not here, but clearly they're sitting right
750
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:11.320
across the aisle, their lawyers in front of the judge.
751
00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:16.000
And so he said, you know, I think we should
752
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:19.039
talk to them, and that's the side of the conversation
753
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.559
that went out. He went in with, we had to
754
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:25.480
find some way though, because it was so sensitive, Bernadine,
755
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:28.079
that we needed to find a way that would allow
756
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:30.480
us to talk to them, to hear what they're saying,
757
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:34.079
to make adjustments to our project, right right, And so
758
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:37.519
we went with something that we called observer status. What
759
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:39.400
do you suggest with as the lawyer, I think we
760
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:41.880
should go with observer status. They can come in sit
761
00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:45.719
like they're actually here, participating, and whatever they say, we
762
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:51.159
incorporate into our duty to consult stuff and we just
763
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:54.559
try to avoid this whole conversation about whether they're here
764
00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:57.760
or not here. And so it was a it was
765
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:01.280
a neat introduction and along the way they've made big,
766
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:07.239
big progress recently they you know, one of their members
767
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:10.000
of the snake station. So what happened Indian Affairs declared
768
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:13.920
them extinct and what was you know, what was the
769
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:19.679
makeup of them? Moved and joined their American counterparts. But
770
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:23.000
in their view, there was no Canada US. The border
771
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:26.239
was just something that somebody else had made up. They
772
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:30.639
just moved in with their kin, basically, And so they
773
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:34.159
were claiming Section thirty five rights, and the courts recently
774
00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:37.400
agreed that yeah, you know, because of what happened, we
775
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:39.960
can't look the other way here. They're still here, they're
776
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:42.920
still exercising the rights. Wow, bizarre.
777
00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:46.639
Somebody is asking you to look at a person and
778
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:47.960
say I can't see you.
779
00:48:48.679 --> 00:48:51.920
Yeah, yeah, well, hey, it's very legal, and a lot
780
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.920
of it goes back to the royal proximation that there
781
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:57.480
are nations the tribes, that they have the right to
782
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:01.320
fish and hunt as formerly, that they own the lands.
783
00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:04.239
And so the problem with the Indian Act and assimilation
784
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:08.239
is that didn't work, and so we didn't conquer them
785
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:13.599
and they didn't assimilate, which technically means they still own
786
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:17.199
the land unless they have treaties. So back where you
787
00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:20.199
grew up on the prairies, there's lots of numbered treaties, right,
788
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:24.880
and in those treaties they actually did seed, release and
789
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:28.320
surrender forever their lands in exchange for a whole bunch
790
00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:32.039
of other things, oxes and plows and education and those
791
00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:36.199
kinds of things. Right, we're in British Columbia. We didn't
792
00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:41.719
conclude the treaty process like other provinces did because by
793
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:45.599
the time you know, it rolls around, they're already were
794
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:49.079
already full scale into an assimilation process. And if they
795
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:54.159
assimilate and become like everybody else, there's no special fishing privileges, privileges,
796
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:57.280
no land claims, no treaties. You don't even have to
797
00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:00.199
you know what, if we if this assimilation worked, we
798
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:03.360
don't even have to honor the historic treaties. I know,
799
00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:04.719
Christmas sketchwan.
800
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:06.800
You know that was the point of it, wasn't that
801
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:13.280
was money? And you are I just want to go soon,
802
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:15.199
but I want people to know where can they get
803
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:15.599
your book.
804
00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:21.880
It's available at any great bookstore, and certainly the independent
805
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:23.960
bookstores have been really supportive of.
806
00:50:24.039 --> 00:50:26.960
Us too, So okay, and Amazon, I'm assuming they can.
807
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:29.440
Amazon, you can get it there as well.
808
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:33.639
And you have a potlatch coming up. You mentioned it
809
00:50:33.760 --> 00:50:40.119
briefly before, and that is not open to everybody, but
810
00:50:40.239 --> 00:50:43.960
it is happening on you can have to tell me.
811
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:46.559
I'm going to try and say this name, but I'm
812
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:50.639
going to mess it up. I'm sure it's zumalagase.
813
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:54.480
On malagales As. Yeah, that's my chief's name. So I'll
814
00:50:54.519 --> 00:50:59.760
be hosting a potlatch hopefully this August, you know, and
815
00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:03.679
I say hopefully because we have lots of rules about potlatching.
816
00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:11.639
So I've actually scheduled two previous potlatches. One I had
817
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:16.719
it for last August, but then my brother's daughter passed away,
818
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:18.800
so we're not allowed to do this type of work,
819
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:21.719
you know, within a year of that death, so it
820
00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:26.519
supposedponent to this August. And then we had another relative
821
00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:29.760
the first time I tried to do a potlatch who
822
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:35.639
passed away and required the year of waiting, and before
823
00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:39.519
the year ran out, the pandemic hit, right, So it's
824
00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:44.039
been We've been, you know, following the rules, the law
825
00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:47.199
as we call it, and postponing, and so hopefully this
826
00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:50.719
August I'll be able to host the potlatch. We'll give
827
00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:57.519
away names and songs and dances and crasps and celebrate birth, death, puberty,
828
00:51:57.599 --> 00:51:59.960
and marriage. Those are the main things that we tried
829
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:03.760
to do and yeah, then we'll give all of our
830
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:07.800
guests gifts, and we're going to do it in a
831
00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:11.199
location where my dad had his first potlatch, which was
832
00:52:11.559 --> 00:52:15.239
Guildford Island. So it's a remote potlatch. It's you know,
833
00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:18.800
we're going to have to boat people into a community
834
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:22.880
that you know, where we're where we're from the homeland,
835
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:27.679
we would call it, and we it hasn't had clean
836
00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:30.719
drinking water for close to a couple of decades and
837
00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:33.239
there's still people that live there, but there's all kinds
838
00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:37.599
of challenges and again those are Indian Act problems right
839
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:42.039
right there. Reason there's so many missing and murdered and
840
00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:45.320
digitous women it's because there's not enough housing on reserve
841
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:48.039
and so they're forced to leave the reserve and they
842
00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:52.639
end up in Vancouver and Victoria in shelters and halfway houses.
843
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:55.320
You know, just all of the all of the problems
844
00:52:55.719 --> 00:52:59.000
that come out of that, that whole chronic underfunding of
845
00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:02.119
Indian Fairy is. We just actually cut a couple of
846
00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:06.039
billion dollars from their budget, which means even less services
847
00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:08.840
to the people living on reserves.
848
00:53:09.199 --> 00:53:11.719
And has there been I know, we're going over time.
849
00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:14.400
But has there been so you have to answer this quickly.
850
00:53:14.719 --> 00:53:17.039
Has there been any research that has looked at the
851
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:18.599
impact of the Indian Act.
852
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:22.639
I can't think of any just off the top of
853
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:27.280
my head. It has been, you know, for policy papers,
854
00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:30.960
and that there's always stuff coming out about that, about
855
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:33.679
all of the issues that come with it too, incarceration.
856
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:38.800
Oh yeah, yes, it seems to me that it's had
857
00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:43.679
a very detrimental impact. Yeah, we need to stop, Bob.
858
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:47.880
I'm so sorry. A thousand questions in my head.
859
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:50.920
But like the it's like the Hollywood ending Bernardine, we
860
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.480
always got to leave them wanting more.
861
00:53:53.480 --> 00:53:55.519
There you go. So that just means I have to
862
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:59.119
connect with you again very soon and have continue on
863
00:53:59.199 --> 00:54:03.199
those conversations. So I would love that. So thank you, Bob.
864
00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:05.960
All right, thank you, and we'll be right back.
865
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:12.039
Folks. That's it. I'm sorry. I would have honestly, I
866
00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:14.480
just would love to continue chatting.
867
00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:17.280
But no worries. No worries. Are on a time crunch.
868
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:19.719
We've got a little bit accomplished in an hour, so
869
00:54:19.840 --> 00:54:20.199
we're good.
870
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:23.840
It's probably really good. I'm not doing a podcast because
871
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:28.079
my podcast would be four hours long anyway.
872
00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:30.159
You'd get a chance to really talk about it.
873
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:36.000
But yeah, well, and you know, I try really hard
874
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:39.199
not to create the show that you know everybody else
875
00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:42.840
is doing, not necessarily on purpose, but just because my
876
00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:46.440
my brain works that way. I really have questions I
877
00:54:46.519 --> 00:54:51.760
want to ask, So anyway, So thank you so much, Bob.
878
00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:54.719
I will send a link via the email that we've
879
00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:57.960
been using when it's up, and it should be up
880
00:54:58.039 --> 00:54:59.360
within the next three weeks or so.
881
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:00.639
Surfect.
882
00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:03.480
Thank Okay, I have energy, No, thank you, Bob.
883
00:55:03.719 --> 00:55:05.239
I appreciate it very much.
884
00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:06.679
All right, take care.
885
00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:10.400
Yae Lacasla.
886
00:55:11.079 --> 00:55:14.199
Check out Thinking In every Monday at eight to nine pm.
887
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:15.920
Thinking In is Van.
888
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:21.079
City's average pop culture show, featuring special guests, sharing community events,
889
00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:24.840
and playing a diverse range of musical genres from hip hop.
890
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:28.119
Country, rock, blues, contemporary and traditional.
891
00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:30.519
Thinking In every Monday at.
892
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:33.960
Eight to nine pm on Vancouver's co Op Radio and
893
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:36.760
heard online at www dot co.
894
00:55:36.840 --> 00:55:53.320
Op radio dot org. Here listening to me threading Madness
895
00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:55.960
on Vancouver co Op Radio CFR or one hundred point
896
00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:59.639
five FM. I'm Bernardine Fox and that's our show. My
897
00:55:59.719 --> 00:56:01.920
thanks to Bob Joseph for coming and chatting with me
898
00:56:02.199 --> 00:56:04.840
about his book, twenty one Things You May Not Know
899
00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:08.000
about the Indian Act. If you're interested in getting that book,
900
00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:11.119
you can find it on Amazon Music. Today was by
901
00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:14.199
Sherry Alrich and to you our listeners, Thank you for
902
00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:20.039
joining us today. Stay safe out there. You've just listened
903
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:22.519
to Rethreading Madness, where we dare to change how we
904
00:56:22.599 --> 00:56:25.519
think about mental health. We air live on Vancouver co
905
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:29.639
Op Radio CFRI one hundred point five FM every Tuesday
906
00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:33.000
at five pm, or online at co opradio dot org.
907
00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:36.960
If you have questions or feedback about this program, or
908
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:39.519
want to share your story, or have something to say
909
00:56:39.559 --> 00:56:41.679
to us, we want to hear from you. You can
910
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:45.679
reach us by email Rethreading Madness at co opradio dot org.
911
00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:49.440
This is Bernardine Fox. We'll be back next week. Until then,
912
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:52.840
will ever been fir?
913
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:55.679
Does?
914
00:56:56.079 --> 00:56:57.880
What the hell I'm gonna do.
915
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:07.880
When I can't seem to find my way under over too?
916
00:57:11.079 --> 00:57:12.679
Just when I'm ready to.
917
00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:14.639
Give up the way.
918
00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:17.400
You are when we.
919
00:57:17.719 --> 00:57:22.920
Turn out the lights and it's sorry, it's all right?
920
00:57:24.079 --> 00:57:28.000
Don't you really be alright?
921
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:34.079
Why do I always believe but when you're telling me
922
00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:47.519
everything's gonna be all right? Yeah, Why don't I wonder
923
00:57:47.920 --> 00:57:48.679
how you know.
924
00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:56.480
Surely you don't have all of the facts. You could
925
00:57:56.719 --> 00:58:03.199
be just making it up. Why don't I ever think
926
00:58:03.320 --> 00:58:03.519
of that?
927
00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:07.199
It's some kind.
928
00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:12.960
Imagic in the words that you breathe saying, baby.
929
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:18.559
Take it from me, it's all right, it's all right.
930
00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:28.519
Don't too have real be alright while always believe that when.
931
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:38.719
You tell everything's gonna be aright, everything's gonna be afright
932
00:58:41.320 --> 00:58:47.280
than anyone else. It's such a cliche, just words people
933
00:58:47.440 --> 00:58:49.480
say it'll be nice.
934
00:58:51.400 --> 00:58:53.119
Somehow and nan.
935
00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:55.159
Far from you other.
936
00:58:56.599 --> 00:58:58.559
I'm convinced you're.
937
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:28.760
When I'm weary and so tired, when I'm worn out
938
00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:34.039
and done, when I fall off.
939
00:59:34.119 --> 00:59:39.440
The why again, no more strength to get back on.
940
00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:45.519
There you are, with that voice in my.
941
00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:51.599
Saying the words and even hit it's.
942
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:58.119
All right, it's all right, don't really me