Building Effective Coalitions: Katherine Golub Interviews Dr. Christine Petit

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Welcome to Resourced and Resourceful Leadership,
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a podcast for people who care about the world
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and their impact in it. I'm Dr. Christine Petit,
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and I am so happy that you are listening to this
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podcast episode. Today, I am in conversation
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with Katherine Golub of the Conflict Decoded
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podcast. You may recall her from episode 39,
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Lead From Where You Stand, Katherine Golub on
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conflict, burnout, and community leadership.
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In that episode, I interviewed her. In this episode,
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the tables are turned. And this is her interviewing
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me about coalition work and the many lessons
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I've learned in movement building and working
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in organizations for change over the years. I
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hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I
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enjoyed having it, that there are some good nuggets
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in there for you, all of you movers, shakers,
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and change makers. Happy listening. Competition,
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territoriality, frustration, uncertainty. These
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are experiences that nearly all of us who've
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done coalition work know well. Whether you're
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navigating scarce funding, grappling with painful
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differences of perspective and priority, or just
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trying to keep showing up when the winds are
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few and far between, coalition work can be really
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hard. And yet, as movement elder and co-founder
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of Sweet Honey in the Rock, Bernice Johnson Reagon
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wrote, You don't go into coalition work because
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you like it. The only reason you would consider
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trying to team up with somebody who could possibly
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kill you is because that is the only way you
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can figure out how to stay alive. My guest this
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week is Dr. Christine Petit, organizational
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consultant, interim executive and leadership
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coach. with more than two decades of experience
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building and strengthening mission-driven organizations
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and coalitions. A sociologist by training, she
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supports leaders at the intersection of social
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change, organizational development, and personal
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growth. Christine is also the host of Resourceful
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Leadership, a podcast for people who care about
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the world and their impact in it. Christine and
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I talk about how to build coalitions that work.
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even when it's uncomfortable. We talk about honoring
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the competitive parts of ourselves instead of
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judging them away. Why territoriality isn't a
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character flaw, but rather a survival response.
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How to find the small glimmers that keep us going
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when the big winds are slow to come. And the
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power of precedent. How the wins we make possible
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today become the floors someone else can build
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on tomorrow. As you listen, I invite you to ask
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yourself, what's one small insight I can take
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with me to collaborate across difference more
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effectively? I hope you enjoy. Welcome, Christine.
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I'm really glad to have this conversation with
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you today. I love to start by acknowledging there's
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a lot of different aspects to the work that you
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do. And I'm curious what called you to this moment?
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What brought you to this moment of having this
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conversation about coalition building? Yeah,
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it's interesting to think about what brought
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me to this particular moment. I think from a
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young age, I had a strong sense of justice. and
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identified as a feminist at a young age where
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it didn't really make sense in a small town that
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I grew up in. Just my experience growing up a
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girl in this world and experiencing that moving
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through the world as a girl. But then when I
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moved to California in particular, I, for the
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first time, was really interacting with people
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from all different backgrounds, all over the
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world. different perspectives. And so along with
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meeting people, my education helped me understand
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where I carried penalty, where I carried privilege
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as someone who is white, who grew up middle class,
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who is cisgender, straight. And so my educational
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background, which ended up with a PhD in sociology,
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my work background, which has been at the Women's
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Resource Center at Cal State LA, to union organizing,
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to community work, nonprofit leadership, now
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leadership coaching and consulting organizations.
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All of that has been just kind of an unfolding
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of... where my experience and values have taken
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me. And in particular, I think about just weaving
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a lot of different influences, but weaving a
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commitment to social justice, to creativity,
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and to mindfulness, and to my approach in working
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with people. And can you share a little bit about
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your personal experience in organizing coalitions
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or leading in coalition? Definitely in moments
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in my work in college and as a union organizer,
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I was in coalition work, but I didn't really
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understand the intentionality behind it until
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I did community-based coalition work. And that's
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where I really learned more. And so in Long Beach,
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California, where I live, I've done coalition
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work. And kind of was introduced to coalition
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work around hotel worker organizing and the community
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side of that, supporting community organizing
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for living wages for hotel workers and fair and
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safe working conditions. And then through my
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leadership and experiences, I became what was
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called a hub manager or executive director for.
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a coalition-based initiative. It was funder
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-driven. It's called Building Healthy Communities,
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funded by the California Endowment, 10-year
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investment into 14 communities across California,
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and Long Beach was one of them. And what anchored
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the work were multiple coalitions around housing,
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around youth organizing. around education and
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schools and much more land use. And so there
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I got to be part of either as a facilitator of
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or a member of or a support of a lot of different
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coalitions. And so I learned a lot. So the good,
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the bad, the ugly for coalition building through
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those experiences. Can you tell a story about
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where things went? challenging, difficult when
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conflict came up in the coalition that you were
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working with and what happened and what you learned
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from that. As part of the Coalition for Good
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Jobs and Healthy Community, we really built up
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civic engagement infrastructure in Long Beach
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and started doing power analysis workshops so
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people would understand how decisions are made
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at the city council level, at the school board,
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at the community colleges, really just. Helping
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people get that understanding and language of
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how decision making happens. And then also doing
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things like organizing community forums, the
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people's state of the city, doing voter engagement
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and voter guides. And that work was largely anchored
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by the coalition that I mentioned initially related
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to hotel worker. organizing, but they really
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wanted to support, and both of the lead organizers
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were in Long Beach, they wanted to support organizing
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more broadly in Long Beach as well. The funder
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initiative, they kind of replicated the civic
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engagement infrastructure that Long Beach Rising
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was doing. That was what we called the civic
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engagement work. There was a lot of overlap,
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but A few folks who were not part of Long Beach
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Rising, who then came to this other civic engagement
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table. And, you know, at a certain point, we
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were kind of like scratching our heads, like,
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we're doing this work over here. Why does it
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need to also happen over here? What's going on?
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And it turned out, I mean, there were a few things
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going on. control for lack of a better word just
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make sure certain things are happening and then
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also there were some partners who didn't necessarily
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feel trust with the coalition that was anchoring
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the other civic engagement work and there was
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a skepticism you know I know people are probably
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listening from all over but In Long Beach, we're
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like the shadow of L.A. So if you have an L
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.A.-based organization coming into Long Beach,
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there's questions about, you know, is this organization
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going to just get what they want and leave sort
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of thing? And I think, you know, that had happened
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before in Long Beach, not necessarily with that
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organization. But trust needed to be built. And
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so. Eventually, what happened with that work
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is that that tension was named. We don't want
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to be sitting at two different tables doing roughly
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the same work when maybe 80% of folks were already
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at the other table. And so it was like, well,
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what would need to happen in order for trust
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to be built here? And through that process, it
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was looking at... You know, what are we doing
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together and agreeing on that, agreeing on the
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roles, being clear on decision making, being
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clear on funding. Those are, you know, just some
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of the key things that help to shift that dynamic
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in that particular case. And so what ended up
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happening? Did you continue to work in these
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two different groups or did you build the trust
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to come back together as one group or what ended
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up happening? So what happened was it ended up
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strengthening the infrastructure that was in
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place already and formalizing it and helping
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to formalize the space around Long Beach Rising.
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And I will say this is where it's not necessarily
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neat and put in a bow. One of the partners who
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was really pushing for an MOU and understanding.
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Once we got to that, they decided not to participate
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anymore. And that's fine. You know, it was clear
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what was going on. But yeah, we ended up dealing
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with the issue of kind of replication and decision
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making by formalizing it into one space, by actually
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bringing up the tension, working through it,
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and then people elected whether or not they would
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participate. OK, so you ended up strengthening
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what was already there and coming back as one
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space and the one space ended up being stronger
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than it was initially. Absolutely. I think that's
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really key. I think that often it's hard to tell
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stories about our organizing work, about really
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anything, about any work, because it's not like
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we tie it up in a bow and it's like, oh, then
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everyone was happy. Occasionally that happens.
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But reality is often far more complex than that.
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And often when we do reach an understanding of
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what our agreements need to be, what our purpose
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is, who we are together, often that clarity means
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that somebody ends up leaving. Like that is often
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what happens. And I'm curious, was that partner
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able to leave on good terms? Did you keep organizing?
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Was it hard? How did that ending happen? Yeah,
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there are some organizations, I will say that.
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Their cultures are more collaborative than others
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and or they choose different types of collaboratives.
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And so, yeah, I would say in that case, like
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we'll talk about later, coalition isn't always
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home. There are times where we're going to come
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together and agree. There's times when we're
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not. And that's OK. But that clarity about what
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each space is was really helpful. So certainly.
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That particular organization that decided not
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to participate in the civic engagement work in
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that way, they were doing their own civic engagement
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work. They were working at other levels as well.
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And they were very much part of other coalitions
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in the community. And so there was overlap in
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other ways. It's like sometimes it's like organizations
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have their own personalities and their own tolerance
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for. trade-offs because you know to be part
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of a larger whole whether it's an individual
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being part of a group or the group or organization
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being part of a coalition there's always trade
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-offs when we decide to be in relationship with
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a larger collective and some of us are more tolerant
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to those trade-offs and some of us you know
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we all have different purposes and sometimes
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those trade-offs are more worth it. Than others.
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And then we have different personalities and
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different proclivities to working with a larger
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whole. So you just said that coalition isn't
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always home. Can you talk more about that? I
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really pull that idea of coalition and home from
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the writing of Bernice Johnson Reagon. You know,
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she has a really interesting history, Dr. Reagon.
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She's a civil rights activist. She's a singer,
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song composer, scholar. But I remember reading
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her, it was initially a speech and then it was
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turned into, it was in a text in Homegirls, A
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Black Feminist Anthology. But she wrote Coalition
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Politics Turning the Century. She says, you don't
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go into coalition because you just like it. The
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only reason you would consider trying to team
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up with somebody who could possibly kill you
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is because that's the only way you can figure
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you can stay alive. She goes on to talk about
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how coalitions are uncomfortable. There are trade
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-offs. Not everyone is like you. You're coming
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together for a common purpose, but there's going
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to be different and disagreements, different
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tolerances, but you agree to come together because
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you think it's worthwhile. You think that you're
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stronger together. home you know it's a place
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where people are it's comfortable people talk
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like you they agree there can be disagreement
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there too but that's where you find more comfort
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that's like the folks who really see things like
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you or maybe share identities with you and it's
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where you I think go to get fueled up to get
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taken care of to get inspired Those things can
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happen in coalition, too. I mean, I think coalition
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work is amazing and beautiful, but it is harder
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than home. I'm curious what you would say to
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someone who's with a group or an organization
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who's trying to decide whether or not to stay
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in a coalition in which they're experiencing
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conflict or tension or friction and trying to
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discern whether or not it's worthwhile to make
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those tradeoffs. I imagine you might have steps
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or... questions that you would ask them to discern
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whether those tryouts are worthwhile. Absolutely.
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Yeah, I would think about what is the overall
00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:11.079
purpose of being part of this coalition? You
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.259
know, what values kind of brought me there in
00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:15.640
the first place or brought my organization there
00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:17.960
in the first place? What are we trying to achieve?
00:17:19.210 --> 00:17:23.789
But I would also think about what is the experience
00:17:23.789 --> 00:17:29.589
now? Can I influence the coalition? It's not
00:17:29.589 --> 00:17:34.069
that I get my way, but is what I have to contribute
00:17:34.069 --> 00:17:37.269
and who I am or the organizational perspective
00:17:37.269 --> 00:17:40.789
that I'm bringing, is that respected? Are we
00:17:40.789 --> 00:17:44.450
having principled conversations about it? And,
00:17:44.470 --> 00:17:47.690
you know, I would encourage somebody to not just
00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.380
exit a coalition because it's uncomfortable,
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:57.359
but really try to go back to, well, was there
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:01.099
a foundation set about our norms, how we're wanting
00:18:01.099 --> 00:18:04.339
to interact with one another? I would also look
00:18:04.339 --> 00:18:08.799
for like relationship building outside of a meeting
00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:12.619
space and building understanding outside of a
00:18:12.619 --> 00:18:15.660
particular meeting space, but looking to see
00:18:16.539 --> 00:18:19.920
If it feels like, you know, we're still trying
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:24.019
to meet the purpose we have and it's tolerable.
00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:27.119
It's hard to say, but I think like you shouldn't
00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.339
just go in expecting like the way your organization
00:18:30.339 --> 00:18:32.480
does things or the way you think about things.
00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:35.480
That's the way it's going to go. Like there needs
00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:38.119
to be some principled struggle in that too, I
00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:41.799
think. You named a lot of things that I agree
00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:44.019
that they're all really, really important. And
00:18:44.019 --> 00:18:47.339
the first one that you named was purpose. What
00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:53.319
practices have you found effective for helping
00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:57.500
coalitions to get clear enough about their purpose
00:18:57.500 --> 00:18:59.779
at the beginning? And also when they come to
00:18:59.779 --> 00:19:01.900
conflict, there's often a time where it's like,
00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:04.559
oh, wait a second, are we on the same page about
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:06.880
our guiding purpose? Because if we disagree about
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:09.319
what we're doing together, then... That's a key
00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:11.220
question for deciding whether or not we stay
00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:14.180
together. So what have you found is helpful for
00:19:14.180 --> 00:19:17.779
clarifying purpose, either at the beginning or
00:19:17.779 --> 00:19:22.940
in the middle of the arc of the work? I'm thinking
00:19:22.940 --> 00:19:25.980
about two different types of coalitions I've
00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:28.920
been part of. The campaigns eventually emerge.
00:19:29.539 --> 00:19:34.440
Usually you come together around a general idea.
00:19:34.700 --> 00:19:39.099
Maybe it's... improving housing in your community
00:19:39.099 --> 00:19:43.359
or improving the conditions for workers in your
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:48.140
community. And I think what has been helpful
00:19:48.140 --> 00:19:52.000
in coalition spaces that I've been part of is
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.000
doing things where you're looking at the issue
00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:01.259
together, where you're sharing the kind of different
00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:04.819
organizational perspectives. And doing things
00:20:04.819 --> 00:20:08.740
to reinforce why we're doing this work together.
00:20:08.859 --> 00:20:12.480
Like, why can't we do it alone? Or why are we
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:17.619
not electing to do it alone? You know, what would
00:20:17.619 --> 00:20:22.019
happen if one just tried to do it alone? I think
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:26.480
that's part of it. But what I found is it is
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:31.130
important up front to... look at like what are
00:20:31.130 --> 00:20:34.269
the different people or organizations perspectives
00:20:34.269 --> 00:20:38.470
on this issue how is it impacting the people
00:20:38.470 --> 00:20:42.390
that they represent or them or that they care
00:20:42.390 --> 00:20:47.130
about and doing things together that just help
00:20:47.130 --> 00:20:52.609
everyone get their piece in and then seeing what
00:20:52.609 --> 00:20:55.210
resonates with folks and kind of building on
00:20:55.210 --> 00:20:59.849
that clarifying on that so it To me, it's that
00:20:59.849 --> 00:21:03.509
work up front of really hearing each other's
00:21:03.509 --> 00:21:05.690
perspectives, why folks are connected to the
00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:07.670
issue and what they're hoping from the work there.
00:21:07.829 --> 00:21:11.789
That's the foundation building. And how much
00:21:11.789 --> 00:21:16.809
clarity do you find is necessary around purpose?
00:21:16.990 --> 00:21:19.710
It's one thing to say that we value housing justice.
00:21:20.049 --> 00:21:22.009
You know, things that are happening in Massachusetts
00:21:22.009 --> 00:21:25.589
right now, there's a statewide campaign for rent
00:21:25.589 --> 00:21:27.390
control, right? There's a coalition that's working
00:21:27.390 --> 00:21:31.180
on that. to pass this rent control law in Massachusetts.
00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:35.299
Or on the municipal level, in my town we have
00:21:35.299 --> 00:21:38.619
17,500 people, so coalition looks like a couple
00:21:38.619 --> 00:21:42.359
of individuals from different homegrown town
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:45.500
groups. It's often the same people, but right
00:21:45.500 --> 00:21:48.480
now folks are working to pass a rental registry
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:53.359
in town, so all landlords need to register with
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:57.220
the city. and be inspected by public health.
00:21:57.460 --> 00:22:02.119
And it's a lot less formal, the decision-making
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.740
process that's needed when it's a couple of people
00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:06.400
who know each other from town. It's like, okay,
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:07.980
this is the thing that makes the sense for us
00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:11.079
to pass it. But when it comes to devoting the
00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:16.940
resources, like to a rent control campaign, that
00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:19.779
requires a whole other level of dedication. And
00:22:19.779 --> 00:22:24.319
so I'm curious how much clarity you've... you
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:28.319
found the group's need in order to be in generative
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:32.740
coalition together? I think sometimes it doesn't
00:22:32.740 --> 00:22:36.920
have to be everything is crystal clear, but that's
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:39.420
what I was thinking about initially. It's like
00:22:39.420 --> 00:22:41.680
sometimes it really is like this is the issue.
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:44.240
We're trying to pass this ballot initiative and
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:47.119
this is your piece, this is my piece, whatever,
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.549
you know? And sometimes it's like we care about
00:22:50.549 --> 00:22:53.089
this issue and we know something needs to happen
00:22:53.089 --> 00:22:58.210
and we want to figure that out. And I think both
00:22:58.210 --> 00:23:02.109
are, you know, wonderful and can be generative.
00:23:02.150 --> 00:23:05.529
It doesn't need to all be clear up front. But
00:23:05.529 --> 00:23:08.509
sometimes that clarity is really helpful when
00:23:08.509 --> 00:23:10.490
you're like, yes, we're all moving towards the
00:23:10.490 --> 00:23:14.109
thing, right? Versus like we're building that
00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:16.430
clarity. And sometimes you need to go back to
00:23:16.430 --> 00:23:19.920
it. Or like you pass the, maybe you pass the
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:23.640
referendum, you pass it. Now it goes to enforcement,
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:27.680
implementation, analysis of how it's actually
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:31.900
going. How do we build on this? I have an example
00:23:31.900 --> 00:23:34.759
in Long Beach around language access and how
00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:38.720
that was, you know, a multi, multi-year campaign
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:42.859
from winning the basics of language access at
00:23:42.859 --> 00:23:46.710
our city council meetings and city. to actually
00:23:46.710 --> 00:23:51.430
getting funding several years later, you know,
00:23:51.450 --> 00:23:55.450
improving upon it. And so each iteration needed
00:23:55.450 --> 00:24:01.630
clarity as well. And in order to get clear to
00:24:01.630 --> 00:24:04.289
the extent that is necessary about what we're
00:24:04.289 --> 00:24:07.609
doing together, we need to have clear decision
00:24:07.609 --> 00:24:10.309
-making processes and an understanding of what
00:24:10.309 --> 00:24:14.269
the power dynamics are in the room. And I'll
00:24:14.269 --> 00:24:16.490
share to listeners that we wrote back and forth
00:24:16.490 --> 00:24:18.789
about some of the questions you would ask. And
00:24:18.789 --> 00:24:22.349
I had asked you, what do people engaging in coalition
00:24:22.349 --> 00:24:25.650
work need to get clear about to engage in difference
00:24:25.650 --> 00:24:28.470
effectively? And you said that the most important
00:24:28.470 --> 00:24:30.150
thing was purpose. And you said that the second
00:24:30.150 --> 00:24:32.849
most important thing was power dynamics, decision
00:24:32.849 --> 00:24:35.990
making, funding, recognition. And I'm thinking
00:24:35.990 --> 00:24:38.930
about. OK, there's these different inflection
00:24:38.930 --> 00:24:41.049
points, whether that is we're starting off together
00:24:41.049 --> 00:24:43.150
or we've won something. And what do we do now?
00:24:43.289 --> 00:24:46.410
Or it's a conflict or like in those moments,
00:24:46.609 --> 00:24:51.470
a really big decision needs to be made. How that
00:24:51.470 --> 00:24:54.650
decision gets made is about power and process.
00:24:54.789 --> 00:25:01.849
And so I'm curious what you found works to make
00:25:01.849 --> 00:25:05.369
decisions effectively in coalition and to distribute
00:25:05.369 --> 00:25:11.359
power. effectively yeah I think developing coalition
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:16.559
agreements together is helpful some of it again
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:20.619
is that like process work but having people even
00:25:20.619 --> 00:25:23.819
if someone's coming with a template or like someone's
00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:26.579
coming with a suggestion about decision making
00:25:26.579 --> 00:25:30.640
making sure that there's space for people to
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.680
talk about what is our role How do we, you know,
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:37.819
want to make decisions together? Where's the
00:25:37.819 --> 00:25:40.420
funding coming from? How does that influence
00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:43.920
things? So sometimes it's just agreements about
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.140
how we're working together. Sometimes it's more
00:25:46.140 --> 00:25:49.500
formalized memorandums of understanding. That
00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:54.519
can be really helpful in just, you know, setting
00:25:54.519 --> 00:25:59.180
that foundation. I just think the more that folks
00:25:59.180 --> 00:26:03.470
can think together doing. Team and relationship
00:26:03.470 --> 00:26:08.309
building, doing activities together to help to
00:26:08.309 --> 00:26:12.769
develop a shared analysis and plan that helps
00:26:12.769 --> 00:26:17.730
to move. It helps people move together. It doesn't
00:26:17.730 --> 00:26:20.609
mean that, you know, everyone's going to think
00:26:20.609 --> 00:26:23.650
exactly alike, but it gives that shared framework
00:26:23.650 --> 00:26:29.799
to move from. Do you have any examples of? organizing
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:32.920
structures or processes that you've seen work
00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:36.500
well in coalitions. In an organization, there's
00:26:36.500 --> 00:26:41.700
usually some type of codified hierarchy, right?
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:44.920
There's some type of this person is this person's
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:46.700
boss and these are the teams and this is the
00:26:46.700 --> 00:26:48.299
team lead and there's that type of structure.
00:26:48.819 --> 00:26:52.099
When it's individuals representing organizations
00:26:52.099 --> 00:26:57.130
coming together to make decisions, often who
00:26:57.130 --> 00:26:59.789
holds what roles are not as codified. Sometimes
00:26:59.789 --> 00:27:03.430
they really are if there's a lot of backing and
00:27:03.430 --> 00:27:05.950
funding and it's laid out and then it becomes
00:27:05.950 --> 00:27:10.430
easier. But often it's not as codified. And so
00:27:10.430 --> 00:27:14.670
there's the loudest person in the room or they
00:27:14.670 --> 00:27:18.049
may be bringing different resources from their
00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:20.670
organization or different personality styles
00:27:20.670 --> 00:27:24.859
are working differently together. And so... laying
00:27:24.859 --> 00:27:28.700
out how decisions are made can be really important.
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:32.240
And yet it can also take a lot of time and effort
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:36.039
to write all the agreements and lay out the norms.
00:27:36.140 --> 00:27:40.500
And it can drain our energy before we actually
00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:43.099
engage in the work and see the processes that
00:27:43.099 --> 00:27:45.619
emerge and are actually needed. So I'm curious,
00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:47.720
do you have examples of coalitions that work
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:51.680
well and what decision-making process they've
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.339
relied on? Some examples that I think of are,
00:27:56.460 --> 00:28:00.000
for example, the youth organizing work in Long
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.240
Beach, where there's an organization that is
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.539
like the anchor organization. And in this case,
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:09.099
they're funded to be the anchor. I think that's
00:28:09.099 --> 00:28:11.599
something that's really important to just name,
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:18.119
is that all of this is work to set meeting times,
00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:23.539
to pull people together, to plan agendas. All
00:28:23.539 --> 00:28:25.539
of that is work. And sometimes it's volunteer
00:28:25.539 --> 00:28:28.720
work. But, you know, when you have organizations
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:32.539
that come together, there needs to be some recognition
00:28:32.539 --> 00:28:36.640
of and I think funding of that work where possible.
00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:40.539
And that could be we all think this is important.
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:43.180
We're going to chip in, you know, this much money
00:28:43.180 --> 00:28:47.339
together to do it. Or like, you know, if it's.
00:28:47.549 --> 00:28:49.970
Kind of a few people like you're talking about
00:28:49.970 --> 00:28:52.470
in your community and the smaller organization.
00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:57.450
At least some agreement. Are we going to do rotating
00:28:57.450 --> 00:29:02.309
facilitation and we each have that role? Or is
00:29:02.309 --> 00:29:04.170
there someone who's going to really anchor this
00:29:04.170 --> 00:29:07.289
work? And, you know, there's just kind of that
00:29:07.289 --> 00:29:09.569
like infrastructure piece. And I know that's
00:29:09.569 --> 00:29:12.509
not decision making, but it impacts decision
00:29:12.509 --> 00:29:16.630
making. Who is? You know, who is anchoring the
00:29:16.630 --> 00:29:19.750
work or who's helping to organize it? Definitely
00:29:19.750 --> 00:29:23.650
there's going to be some weight there in terms
00:29:23.650 --> 00:29:30.089
of decision making as well. But the model that
00:29:30.089 --> 00:29:33.890
I really like in Long Beach is where they really
00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:36.970
value youth voice. And so it kind of goes through
00:29:36.970 --> 00:29:40.069
a few iterations of decision making. It starts
00:29:40.069 --> 00:29:44.500
with young people. talking about the issues that
00:29:44.500 --> 00:29:47.559
they care about and what they want to focus on.
00:29:47.660 --> 00:29:52.619
And then there's organizational leads that help
00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:56.259
to kind of distill that and bring that back to
00:29:56.259 --> 00:30:00.720
the broader coalition and go from there in terms
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.279
of moving the work forward. But it has these
00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:07.180
kind of different points of like, who's most
00:30:07.180 --> 00:30:09.680
impacted by this? How are they weighing in on
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:12.640
it and shaping it? Then how are we offering support
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:16.099
and making decisions from there? I think it is
00:30:16.099 --> 00:30:20.660
worthwhile to name things like, do we need to
00:30:20.660 --> 00:30:25.160
have consensus? Or is it a majority rules? I
00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:28.160
mean, I would say most coalitions are not majority
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:33.160
rules, but also do we have to have 100% consensus?
00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.740
We did a hybrid. voting model for a steering
00:30:36.740 --> 00:30:39.380
committee that I helped to facilitate. It was
00:30:39.380 --> 00:30:42.059
like five different options. Like they could
00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:44.619
say like, oh, I am absolutely opposed to this
00:30:44.619 --> 00:30:47.039
or I have some reservations, but I would support
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:51.940
the majority. I'm neutral or I'm enthusiastically
00:30:51.940 --> 00:30:55.220
supportive, you know, and if it was like we got
00:30:55.220 --> 00:30:58.900
a certain threshold, then that would be, you
00:30:58.900 --> 00:31:00.779
know, then we would move the decision forward,
00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:03.299
even if there was some folks who felt a little
00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:05.619
uncomfortable. I appreciate you naming that this
00:31:05.619 --> 00:31:10.220
work is work and that it needs a certain foundation
00:31:10.220 --> 00:31:13.220
of support in order to be effective. And you
00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:17.680
named recognition as a key piece. Can you say
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:22.180
what you mean by that? Yeah, I think recognition
00:31:22.180 --> 00:31:26.700
is interesting because just also going back to
00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:29.099
the youth organizing work, I thought what was
00:31:29.099 --> 00:31:33.750
really interesting there is that Different organizations
00:31:33.750 --> 00:31:36.809
play different roles, and some organizations
00:31:36.809 --> 00:31:42.970
had more of a direct line to the school board
00:31:42.970 --> 00:31:47.289
or to the school infrastructure. And so they
00:31:47.289 --> 00:31:51.470
were going to use those relationships and be
00:31:51.470 --> 00:31:57.630
supportive of the campaign, but their logo wouldn't
00:31:57.630 --> 00:32:01.490
necessarily be on a flyer. Or they wouldn't necessarily
00:32:01.490 --> 00:32:05.130
be recognized as the anchor. And that was okay
00:32:05.130 --> 00:32:08.210
because it was named. It wasn't like, oh, we're
00:32:08.210 --> 00:32:11.109
just like, you know, hiding our involvement here.
00:32:11.150 --> 00:32:14.109
It was like, no, we're going to use this strategically.
00:32:14.769 --> 00:32:18.690
But we are committed to what the coalition is
00:32:18.690 --> 00:32:25.069
doing. And yeah, I think also it's just really
00:32:25.069 --> 00:32:29.779
important to... If you are leading an organization
00:32:29.779 --> 00:32:33.380
or coalition, to think about everyone who is
00:32:33.380 --> 00:32:37.240
contributing to it and not just further your
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:41.960
own organization. And when that happens, that's
00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:45.799
where I've seen friction as well. I think everyone
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:49.500
should be recognized in some way, but not one
00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:53.079
organization needs to take credit for everything.
00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:56.079
And that's something to be careful of when you're...
00:32:56.400 --> 00:33:00.680
in a leadership role too. I'm curious about that
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:05.480
situation of one organization trying to be at
00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:08.079
the head of things. It makes a lot of sense that
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:10.700
that territoriality happens. Like, of course
00:33:10.700 --> 00:33:15.119
it does. We're living in contrived, manufactured
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:20.039
scarcity of capitalism, especially now with so
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.990
many threats to nonprofits and organizing groups
00:33:23.990 --> 00:33:26.569
and so much funding being cut. So it's very common
00:33:26.569 --> 00:33:28.369
for an organizational leader to feel like, I
00:33:28.369 --> 00:33:30.809
really want to be in relationship with this other
00:33:30.809 --> 00:33:33.130
organization. I really value the work that they
00:33:33.130 --> 00:33:36.670
do. But what if the funds that we have gotten
00:33:36.670 --> 00:33:41.029
go to this other organization? We may cease to
00:33:41.029 --> 00:33:44.569
exist. And so there's like this double bind of,
00:33:44.730 --> 00:33:46.890
oh, to be effective, I need to be in relationship.
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:50.660
But, oh, if I am in a relationship and they get
00:33:50.660 --> 00:33:52.519
credit for the work that I'm doing, then I might
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:56.200
cease to exist. That's just one cause that goes
00:33:56.200 --> 00:33:59.500
to that territoriality or that jockeying for
00:33:59.500 --> 00:34:04.740
resources. There's many others. I'm curious what
00:34:04.740 --> 00:34:09.679
you see contributes to that challenge and what
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:14.840
you've seen helps make it better. Yeah. I mean,
00:34:14.860 --> 00:34:19.389
it is a totally normal thing. thing organizationally
00:34:19.389 --> 00:34:23.449
and on a human level to feel like oh if they're
00:34:23.449 --> 00:34:28.289
getting recognition I'm not or whatnot and sometimes
00:34:28.289 --> 00:34:34.130
our funding systems reinforce that I've also
00:34:34.130 --> 00:34:39.219
seen them really encourage, like some funders
00:34:39.219 --> 00:34:42.500
really encourage collaborations. And in some
00:34:42.500 --> 00:34:45.280
cases, it's like folks aren't ready to collaborate
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.840
or like the collaboration isn't as supportive.
00:34:49.179 --> 00:34:53.820
But I do like this recognition that collaboration
00:34:53.820 --> 00:34:58.599
is important and that that has been rewarded
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:02.599
in some funding spaces too. But I think we just
00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:06.980
need to also get better at talking about different
00:35:06.980 --> 00:35:10.059
contributions. You can, if you're part of something,
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:12.400
like you can do more if you're partnered with
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:14.659
another organization. You can talk about what
00:35:14.659 --> 00:35:17.719
you've done with the other organization and what
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:20.199
you've done on your own. And they can talk about
00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:22.880
what they've done with you. I understand the
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:25.619
reservations and why like organizations get pitted
00:35:25.619 --> 00:35:28.730
against each other and things like that. But
00:35:28.730 --> 00:35:32.250
what I've seen in reality is the way that collaboration
00:35:32.250 --> 00:35:36.329
actually strengthens organizations. And you can
00:35:36.329 --> 00:35:39.429
do more when you're in relationship as well.
00:35:40.309 --> 00:35:43.170
Two things come up for me when you say that.
00:35:43.590 --> 00:35:46.409
And I'm going to name them together and then
00:35:46.409 --> 00:35:48.670
ask you to address them one at a time because
00:35:48.670 --> 00:35:52.190
they're different. One is that, yes, like I really
00:35:52.190 --> 00:35:54.909
agree with you. We need to get better at talking
00:35:54.909 --> 00:35:57.510
about contribution. We need to get better at
00:35:57.510 --> 00:36:00.789
shining light on what works for so many different
00:36:00.789 --> 00:36:04.489
reasons, especially when it comes to relationship
00:36:04.489 --> 00:36:07.110
building, right? So I want to ask you about that
00:36:07.110 --> 00:36:08.789
in a minute, like what works for that. I want
00:36:08.789 --> 00:36:12.550
to highlight that. But before we go there, that
00:36:12.550 --> 00:36:18.510
even if cognitively we may know that coalition
00:36:18.510 --> 00:36:23.320
makes us so much stronger, emotionally... If
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:27.179
we're in a fear place and we're in a place of
00:36:27.179 --> 00:36:30.659
like our survival is at stake as an organization,
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:33.559
I might have staff members and they may be depending
00:36:33.559 --> 00:36:37.820
on me for their jobs. Or I might have community
00:36:37.820 --> 00:36:40.599
members who really care deeply about my work
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:42.880
and I don't want to let them down or my own family,
00:36:42.940 --> 00:36:47.900
my own survival. Even though cognitively we may
00:36:47.900 --> 00:36:50.840
believe that collaboration is better and we need
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:53.860
to get better. focusing on contribution. If emotionally
00:36:53.860 --> 00:36:56.460
we're in that fear place, it can be really hard
00:36:56.460 --> 00:37:01.179
to do. And so I'm curious what you found is helpful
00:37:01.179 --> 00:37:05.119
when we're noticing, okay, I'm getting territorial.
00:37:05.380 --> 00:37:07.119
Maybe that's the first step is that noticing,
00:37:07.179 --> 00:37:11.119
but we notice the territoriality in ourselves.
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:14.980
What to do then? Like, what do we do about that?
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:17.739
It's so hard. I'm not going to like silver line
00:37:17.739 --> 00:37:19.960
it and say, oh, it's easy. And just like, think
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:25.380
good. Think. Okay. It's hard. And I actually
00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:29.559
just did an episode where I was, I'd been doing
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:31.420
my own leadership coaching and I've been working
00:37:31.420 --> 00:37:34.579
with a part of myself that feels a little competitive
00:37:34.579 --> 00:37:38.800
and feels a little worried about being left behind
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:43.380
or thrown away. And, you know, organizationally,
00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:47.679
we are made up of individuals. And I think doing
00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:52.980
that work to recognize what's going on inside
00:37:52.980 --> 00:37:56.639
ourselves to get support from others. I just
00:37:56.639 --> 00:38:02.119
I found as a leader that I really needed my peers,
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:06.679
other people who knew what it was to run an organization
00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:10.099
and to find them, whether they're in your. community
00:38:10.099 --> 00:38:14.400
or spread out across the US or whatever, but
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.360
to really seek out relationships so you can talk
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:21.420
through some of these things and, you know, strategize
00:38:21.420 --> 00:38:23.699
with folks where you're not stuck in that fear
00:38:23.699 --> 00:38:26.300
place. And then, you know, I'm a big proponent
00:38:26.300 --> 00:38:31.039
of coaching or therapy or two, you know, like
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:34.719
we need to do the internal work as well. to support
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:37.360
how we want to show up. And of course, people
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.000
are scared right now. Why wouldn't they be? But
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:42.500
actually, there is a lot of evidence that connecting
00:38:42.500 --> 00:38:46.719
with people can help us too. I appreciate what
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:49.039
you said a moment ago about working with this
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:53.099
coach and noticing the competition arising in
00:38:53.099 --> 00:38:56.599
you. It makes me think about a couple of group
00:38:56.599 --> 00:38:59.619
relations conferences with systemic psychodynamic
00:38:59.619 --> 00:39:03.760
work. Basically, it's a three or seven day event
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:08.219
where there's like small groups, large groups,
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:10.260
different structures, and there is no agenda.
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:13.260
You go in, the consultant is very like stone
00:39:13.260 --> 00:39:16.599
faced and is just sitting there and people start
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:19.900
talking about what's coming up for them in relationship
00:39:19.900 --> 00:39:22.900
with the people in the room. And so it's shining
00:39:22.900 --> 00:39:25.900
light on all of these things that are below the
00:39:25.900 --> 00:39:29.760
surface, all of the different projections. All
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.840
of the stuff comes up that when we're talking
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:35.019
about the work that we're doing at work is still
00:39:35.019 --> 00:39:37.679
there below the surface. In one of the conferences
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:41.219
that I participated in, people talked a lot about
00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:44.019
competition. And I like to think of myself as
00:39:44.019 --> 00:39:46.139
collaborative. So it was really a wake up for
00:39:46.139 --> 00:39:48.619
me about how competition was in my shadow. And
00:39:48.619 --> 00:39:50.579
we take those things out of our shadow and we
00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:53.360
recognize that, oh, there's my competitive part.
00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:57.539
We can. use that awareness to so much more consciously
00:39:57.539 --> 00:40:00.659
choose how we interact with it so it's not running
00:40:00.659 --> 00:40:03.820
the show from below the surface. So I appreciate
00:40:03.820 --> 00:40:07.840
you naming that. Yeah, absolutely. Of course,
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.739
there's competition in our shadow. Like, look
00:40:10.739 --> 00:40:13.820
at the society we live in, right? So it's this,
00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:19.889
like, recognition and unlearning and... sometimes
00:40:19.889 --> 00:40:23.250
when it doesn't even make rational sense to us
00:40:23.250 --> 00:40:25.889
to unlearn right because you're like no but things
00:40:25.889 --> 00:40:31.170
are scary yeah yeah yeah yeah so that self-awareness
00:40:31.170 --> 00:40:34.130
is is incredibly important and then to go back
00:40:34.130 --> 00:40:37.289
to you said we need to get better at talking
00:40:37.289 --> 00:40:40.610
about contribution can you share what comes up
00:40:40.610 --> 00:40:46.449
for you around that yeah I think when I'm imagining
00:40:46.449 --> 00:40:50.179
being in a coalition space right now where we're
00:40:50.179 --> 00:40:53.260
talking about turnout for an event and the organizer
00:40:53.260 --> 00:40:56.579
or the person who's anchoring or facilitating
00:40:56.579 --> 00:40:59.619
right then is asking, how many people can you
00:40:59.619 --> 00:41:01.619
commit to? How many people can you commit to?
00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:04.539
How many people can you commit to? I'm thinking
00:41:04.539 --> 00:41:09.519
about all the ways that we different folks show
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:14.059
up and whether it's turnout to an event, whether
00:41:14.059 --> 00:41:17.420
it's Leveraging a relationship that they have,
00:41:17.659 --> 00:41:20.059
you know, whether it's their artistic skills.
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:27.880
Just finding ways to, one, name that it's not,
00:41:27.940 --> 00:41:30.780
even if it's done under the banner of a particular
00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:34.420
coalition. These are all the folks who are involved
00:41:34.420 --> 00:41:37.679
in it. You need to pause and celebrate. You said
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.320
something earlier about, like, coalition work
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:42.920
you don't always, I think we both talked about
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:46.320
tying it in a bow. The other thing is that the
00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:51.639
work that we do, it is ongoing. My partner is
00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:54.119
an electrical engineer. When we first started
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:57.420
dating, he was like, how do you know when your
00:41:57.420 --> 00:42:02.340
work is done? Like, you don't. But you do choose
00:42:02.340 --> 00:42:05.860
moments along the way to celebrate, to recognize,
00:42:06.099 --> 00:42:09.260
to pause and reflect. And I think that's the
00:42:09.260 --> 00:42:11.900
other thing. When you pause and reflect, you're
00:42:11.900 --> 00:42:15.260
always learning and growing. and strengthening
00:42:15.260 --> 00:42:18.920
your work as well. And any advice for people
00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:21.420
who are listening who are like, yeah, that makes
00:42:21.420 --> 00:42:23.980
sense, but that's really hard to do right now
00:42:23.980 --> 00:42:27.300
because I'm working to, whether that's passing
00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:30.920
a policy or they're working to get funding or
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:33.639
they're working on something that just feels
00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.860
like the winds are few and far between. Any advice
00:42:36.860 --> 00:42:39.519
about how to find the winds in the midst of?
00:42:40.230 --> 00:42:43.070
The policy fails. And they've put so much research
00:42:43.070 --> 00:42:47.489
into that. Any advice for folks who are like,
00:42:47.550 --> 00:42:49.829
I don't know exactly how to do that when things
00:42:49.829 --> 00:42:53.389
are so hard? Yeah. Well, I think one is to not
00:42:53.389 --> 00:42:57.449
move too quickly to learning, but to knowledge.
00:42:58.469 --> 00:43:02.510
Like, ooh, this is hard. There might be grieving
00:43:02.510 --> 00:43:08.289
in the loss, disappointment, and it's okay to
00:43:08.289 --> 00:43:11.610
make space for that. Even doing that together
00:43:11.610 --> 00:43:17.710
can be incredibly healing and important. So I
00:43:17.710 --> 00:43:21.630
don't want to be so quick to jump to celebration.
00:43:22.190 --> 00:43:26.969
But I do think we need to hold on to those little
00:43:26.969 --> 00:43:31.769
glimmers, the hope that we find, the connective
00:43:31.769 --> 00:43:35.670
conversation that we have, what we learned along
00:43:35.670 --> 00:43:39.659
the way, the person who spoke out at... city
00:43:39.659 --> 00:43:41.960
council for the first time, who knocked on a
00:43:41.960 --> 00:43:45.840
door for the first time, the relationship that
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:50.900
got stronger, the insight that you got. Looking
00:43:50.900 --> 00:43:54.480
for those things and paying attention to them
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:58.599
is really important because it keeps us going
00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:04.320
and it's real. And, you know, when things are
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:08.300
so hard in the world and things are so overwhelming,
00:44:09.550 --> 00:44:11.909
The thing I always come back to is do what you
00:44:11.909 --> 00:44:16.550
can where you are. Is that how you showed up
00:44:16.550 --> 00:44:20.590
for your kid? Is that the smile you gave your
00:44:20.590 --> 00:44:24.449
neighbor? Whatever, like those things are important
00:44:24.449 --> 00:44:27.230
too. And the things that we do in relationship
00:44:27.230 --> 00:44:30.289
with each other to make the world better, to
00:44:30.289 --> 00:44:34.090
make our communities better, doing those things,
00:44:34.230 --> 00:44:37.150
even when they're not successful, we didn't get
00:44:37.150 --> 00:44:40.420
the big win. There are little wins along the
00:44:40.420 --> 00:44:44.159
way. And so just, I encourage people to go back
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.599
to those. When you talk about the ongoing nature
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:51.219
of the work and we never know what we're building
00:44:51.219 --> 00:44:54.440
toward, it makes me think about the work on city
00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:56.800
council right now. It's not like we're in some
00:44:56.800 --> 00:45:00.059
official coalition, but yeah, I've been there
00:45:00.059 --> 00:45:02.360
almost four years. In June, it'll be four years.
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:04.519
And there's many things that I've wanted to pass
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:08.050
for a very long time throughout that time. And
00:45:08.050 --> 00:45:11.449
we haven't been set up to do that yet, but we
00:45:11.449 --> 00:45:14.150
have a new council. And now is the time because
00:45:14.150 --> 00:45:17.730
of many, there's many new people on council and
00:45:17.730 --> 00:45:20.409
because of a lot of relationship building that
00:45:20.409 --> 00:45:23.510
we've done over time and those little wins of
00:45:23.510 --> 00:45:25.230
those different relationships and those different
00:45:25.230 --> 00:45:29.050
elections. And now we're poised to pass many
00:45:29.050 --> 00:45:33.119
precedent setting. ordinances in our town with
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:37.760
the aim that in some distant relationship with
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:40.880
other towns and cities in the state and in the
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:44.780
country, we can create something that other people
00:45:44.780 --> 00:45:48.500
can then replicate. Were those wins along the
00:45:48.500 --> 00:45:51.639
last four years? Not in terms of passing policy,
00:45:51.900 --> 00:45:54.500
like we've had a couple tiny ones, but they were
00:45:54.500 --> 00:45:57.139
in terms of laying the groundwork for us to do
00:45:57.139 --> 00:46:01.289
this now, which is really, really exciting. Yeah,
00:46:01.309 --> 00:46:05.110
I can say that for Long Beach as well. The city
00:46:05.110 --> 00:46:10.110
council that we had when I first moved here 2008,
00:46:10.849 --> 00:46:13.530
you know, on the city council level, like it's
00:46:13.530 --> 00:46:17.789
a totally different ballgame. And yeah, I mean,
00:46:17.809 --> 00:46:19.710
not everything's perfect. There's work to be
00:46:19.710 --> 00:46:23.150
done for sure. But like all of that also lays
00:46:23.150 --> 00:46:25.570
the foundation. And I totally agree with you.
00:46:25.610 --> 00:46:28.119
I think what happens. At the local level, it
00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:30.440
can inspire change in other levels. It gives
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:34.039
people examples to pull from. And so it's important
00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:36.159
for your community, but it's important for other
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:38.800
communities as well. And I've seen that researching
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:41.639
policy. We researched what happened in other
00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:44.300
communities and use those as examples, brought
00:46:44.300 --> 00:46:46.480
them to the city attorney, all of that stuff.
00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:49.800
Yeah, I learned a lot about precedent setting
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:53.199
when I was working in Tucson with the Hotel Workers
00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:56.969
Union. They were planning to build a convention
00:46:56.969 --> 00:46:58.929
center hotel. It never happened because it was
00:46:58.929 --> 00:47:01.489
late 2007 and then the financial crash happened.
00:47:01.710 --> 00:47:04.010
But they were issuing a request for proposal
00:47:04.010 --> 00:47:07.150
for their new convention center hotel. And our
00:47:07.150 --> 00:47:09.829
ask to them was to integrate card check neutrality,
00:47:09.949 --> 00:47:12.630
which is a fair organizing rights process for
00:47:12.630 --> 00:47:15.730
hotel workers. And we shared with them, look,
00:47:15.929 --> 00:47:19.659
all these other cities throughout. The country
00:47:19.659 --> 00:47:23.300
have integrated this language, this fair organizing
00:47:23.300 --> 00:47:25.639
rights language, into their request for proposals
00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:27.880
to hotel companies building convention center
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.739
hotels. We didn't let them know that we had never
00:47:30.739 --> 00:47:33.119
passed to this specific language and that this
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:36.440
was the most cutting edge language that existed.
00:47:36.739 --> 00:47:39.820
And it wasn't dishonest to say card check neutrality
00:47:39.820 --> 00:47:42.860
had been integrated into other requests for proposals.
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:45.039
And they were like, OK, this has been done in
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:48.679
other places. We'll include it, too. And they
00:47:48.679 --> 00:47:52.179
did. And like the next day, Hilton and Starwoods
00:47:52.179 --> 00:47:55.320
and Hyatt and all the major hotel trains were
00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:58.900
calling up the hotel workers union to create
00:47:58.900 --> 00:48:01.679
those contracts so that they could have an opportunity
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:04.880
to build their hotel there. And so that from
00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:09.579
nearly 20 years ago really shapes my worldview
00:48:09.579 --> 00:48:14.400
now, like our responsibility in such a relatively
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:17.489
progressive area. is to set precedent for other
00:48:17.489 --> 00:48:21.909
places. Yeah. And was it a win? I think so. Even
00:48:21.909 --> 00:48:23.690
though the convention center hotel was never
00:48:23.690 --> 00:48:27.570
built, I think it was still a win. Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:27.869 --> 00:48:30.230
Any other words of wisdom or support that you
00:48:30.230 --> 00:48:32.630
would want to share with people who are doing
00:48:32.630 --> 00:48:35.750
coalition building work right now and are grappling
00:48:35.750 --> 00:48:38.349
with conflict? Anything else you'd want them
00:48:38.349 --> 00:48:43.900
to know? I think it is important to... Go back
00:48:43.900 --> 00:48:46.619
to the why, what prompted you to join, what keeps
00:48:46.619 --> 00:48:54.059
you there. And also to be aware of your style
00:48:54.059 --> 00:48:58.159
in conflict. Are you somebody who tends to shy
00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:03.420
away from conflict? Do you lean right in and
00:49:03.420 --> 00:49:07.400
argue your point? I think being aware of our
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:12.599
responses to conflict too. thinking about what
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.659
our values are, how we want to show up, and just
00:49:15.659 --> 00:49:18.880
taking some time to do that is important. So
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:22.679
that inner work as well as going back to revisiting
00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:26.900
any agreements that you have as a coalition or
00:49:26.900 --> 00:49:30.699
bringing something up about how do we want to
00:49:30.699 --> 00:49:35.679
move forward. I encourage folks to remember that
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:38.960
Coalition is not home. It's okay if it's a little
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:41.300
uncomfortable. That's how we learn. That's how
00:49:41.300 --> 00:49:45.599
we grow and change and make change. And it shouldn't
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:50.059
be unbearable. I encourage folks to be brave
00:49:50.059 --> 00:49:53.760
in looking at what's going on too internally.
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:59.239
I do have a resource guide on my website. It's
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:03.380
a free difficult conversations prep guide. And
00:50:03.380 --> 00:50:08.000
I use some of my favorite resources from organizing,
00:50:08.300 --> 00:50:12.059
from communication, and things like that to help
00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:16.260
you prepare for a difficult conversation or speaking
00:50:16.260 --> 00:50:20.239
up in a meeting. I have one version that's for
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:22.579
like an interpersonal relationship and one that's
00:50:22.579 --> 00:50:25.420
more organizational, and that's in the guide.
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:28.539
So that's a resource I'd like to offer to folks
00:50:28.539 --> 00:50:32.449
as well. That's, that's fantastic. I will include
00:50:32.449 --> 00:50:38.090
that in the show notes. And yeah, what you just
00:50:38.090 --> 00:50:40.889
said about knowing your style or your proclivity
00:50:40.889 --> 00:50:43.530
or your habit nature or your preferred strategies,
00:50:43.550 --> 00:50:47.050
like, do you lean back? Do you lean in? Do you
00:50:47.050 --> 00:50:50.610
lean on other people? And I think that the things
00:50:50.610 --> 00:50:53.670
that you've talked about already about Anchoring
00:50:53.670 --> 00:50:57.909
in purpose, acknowledging what's hard, acknowledging
00:50:57.909 --> 00:51:01.110
what's good, all of these practices can help
00:51:01.110 --> 00:51:05.710
support us to be aware of our habit nature and
00:51:05.710 --> 00:51:09.389
then come into a more centered, responsive place.
00:51:09.469 --> 00:51:11.550
So we're not just always leaning in or leaning
00:51:11.550 --> 00:51:14.389
back or leaning on others, but we can be much
00:51:14.389 --> 00:51:17.869
more upright and centered in how we're engaging
00:51:17.869 --> 00:51:20.170
with other people. So I really appreciate that.
00:51:20.619 --> 00:51:23.940
Thank you. I like the way you synthesize that.
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:27.900
Thanks. So I'm going to link to the resource
00:51:27.900 --> 00:51:31.820
guide in the show notes. Anything else about
00:51:31.820 --> 00:51:35.059
how folks could benefit from working with you
00:51:35.059 --> 00:51:37.860
or reach out to you or find you? Yes, I would
00:51:37.860 --> 00:51:41.420
love to connect with folks. I do offer leadership
00:51:41.420 --> 00:51:45.480
coaching, organizational consulting, and occasionally
00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:48.260
interim executive leadership as well. But also
00:51:48.260 --> 00:51:51.639
I'd just love it if you said hi. My website is
00:51:51.639 --> 00:51:56.159
drchristinepetit.com. That's drchristinepetit
00:51:56.159 --> 00:52:01.199
.com. And you can find a link to my podcast,
00:52:01.460 --> 00:52:03.880
the Resourced and Resourceful Leadership Podcast.
00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:07.800
Sign up for emails and download the guide there.
00:52:08.380 --> 00:52:10.940
Also would love to connect with you on Instagram
00:52:10.940 --> 00:52:14.079
or LinkedIn. And I'll make sure Katherine has
00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:16.900
all the links for those. And I will include them.
00:52:17.289 --> 00:52:18.869
Well, thank you very much. I know we're going
00:52:18.869 --> 00:52:21.570
to do an exchange and we'll have a conversation
00:52:21.570 --> 00:52:24.369
in a bit. And I'm really, really looking forward
00:52:24.369 --> 00:52:26.349
to this. I feel like we just got warmed up and
00:52:26.349 --> 00:52:29.389
just started. So thank you for this time together.
00:52:29.909 --> 00:52:32.570
Yes, thank you. This was wonderful. And I'm looking
00:52:32.570 --> 00:52:44.449
forward to our conversation too. Thank you so
00:52:44.449 --> 00:52:47.389
much to Dr. Christine Petit for this rich, honest
00:52:47.389 --> 00:52:50.889
conversation and for helping us to see the frustrations
00:52:50.889 --> 00:52:53.829
of coalition work with compassion and grace.
00:52:54.409 --> 00:52:57.449
Here's what I want you to carry with you. Coalition
00:52:57.449 --> 00:53:00.889
work was never supposed to be easy, but it has
00:53:00.889 --> 00:53:04.530
always been necessary. The more that we can turn
00:53:04.530 --> 00:53:06.929
toward ourselves and each other, frustrating
00:53:06.929 --> 00:53:11.969
and imperfect as we are, with care and curiosity,
00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:15.500
the more power we can build to transform the
00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:19.139
systems that manufacture scarcity and take real
00:53:19.139 --> 00:53:23.280
steps toward the world we long for. So this week,
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:26.460
I invite you to pause and ask yourself, where
00:53:26.460 --> 00:53:30.800
am I bracing for scarcity right now? And what
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:34.500
tiny step might I take to build for the win we
00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:39.579
need instead? Thanks again for listening in to
00:53:39.579 --> 00:53:42.480
the Resourced and Resourceful Leadership podcast
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:46.760
and this special re-airing of a conversation
00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:51.099
that I had with Katherine Golub on her podcast,
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:55.500
Conflict Decoded. To support the Resourced and
00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:59.219
Resourceful Leadership podcast, please follow
00:53:59.219 --> 00:54:02.599
or subscribe to the show wherever you listen
00:54:02.599 --> 00:54:08.059
to it. And also, please share this episode with
00:54:08.059 --> 00:54:11.800
a few people who you think may enjoy it. That
00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:14.840
is one of the best ways that you can support
00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:20.420
the show. As always, I would love to hear what
00:54:20.420 --> 00:54:24.360
stood out to you. You can leave me a message
00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:31.980
through my website or through Speakpipe. I hope
00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:35.679
that this supports you in the work that you're
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:39.880
doing, that you can find connections to what
00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:43.639
Katherine and I talked about and the change that
00:54:43.639 --> 00:54:46.719
you would like to see in the world and whatever
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:51.539
parts of the world and change you are touching
00:54:51.539 --> 00:54:55.920
and can impact. Thanks again and take good care.