Focusing on Human Transformation Over Digital Transformation

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,240Welcome to Reinviting Professionals, a podcast hosted by industry analyst Ari Kaplan,200:00:07,240 --> 00:00:12,640which shares ideas, guidance and perspectives from market leaders shaping the next generation300:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,680of legal and professional services.400:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,800This is Ari Kaplan, and I'm speaking today with Peter Connor, a lawyer, the author of500:00:21,800 --> 00:00:29,280two books, the T-Shapeloyer and the T-Shapeloyer Guidebook, and a legal team coach with alternatively600:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,280legal based in Australia.700:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,280My Peter, how are you?800:00:33,280 --> 00:00:34,280Terrific, Ari.900:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,280Great to be on your podcast.1000:00:36,280 --> 00:00:37,280Thank you.1100:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,360It's my privilege I'm looking forward to this conversation.1200:00:39,360 --> 00:00:44,760So tell us about your background and the genesis of alternatively legal.1300:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,560I started life as a lawyer, initially with Bay from McKenzie, working here in Sydney1400:00:49,560 --> 00:00:56,840and then moved to Hong Kong and went in-house in the late 80s and spent 25 plus years working1500:00:56,840 --> 00:01:03,880in various regional general council roles in the States, the UK, Switzerland, Hong Kong1600:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,480and Australia.1700:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,560Why did you make the switch from practicing lawyer to legal team coach?1800:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,760I was looking to come back from Switzerland to Australia about 10 years ago and I wanted1900:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,360to do something different, have this sort of second or third career because I had time2000:01:19,360 --> 00:01:26,400in between working in a business role, managing tech technology for a compliance tech company2100:01:26,400 --> 00:01:27,960that lasted about a year.2200:01:27,960 --> 00:01:34,160But my passion is really helping lawyers to reinvent themselves, to use the title of your2300:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,160podcast.2400:01:35,160 --> 00:01:36,640And so that's what I wanted to do.2500:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,520And there's a lot that I learned by accident in my own experience working as a lawyer and2600:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,960I wanted to translate that into programs, theories and ideas, shining a bright light on the2700:01:46,960 --> 00:01:49,160dark art of the practice of law.2800:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,080One is it that makes people successful and what doesn't.2900:01:53,080 --> 00:01:57,160What exactly is the role of a legal team coach?3000:01:57,160 --> 00:02:02,680Typically I work with legal teams, primarily in-house legal departments and they can be small3100:02:02,680 --> 00:02:09,800ones, four or five people, up to very large ones like HSBC, Pfizer, Uname, some really big3200:02:09,800 --> 00:02:10,800companies.3300:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,760And sometimes with law firms, although I find most of my stuff resonates best within3400:02:14,760 --> 00:02:15,760house legal teams.3500:02:15,760 --> 00:02:22,200I'll go in and run a workshop, I call them boot camps because I'll try and take the team3600:02:22,200 --> 00:02:23,200through a program.3700:02:23,200 --> 00:02:28,560It's not just improve things but to really help them change and truly transform the way3800:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,920that they were.3900:02:29,920 --> 00:02:33,000Your book's focus on this concept of a T-Shift lawyer.4000:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,280What exactly is a T-Shift lawyer?4100:02:36,280 --> 00:02:42,440I came across the T-Shift professional concept about a decade ago and it's basically the idea4200:02:42,440 --> 00:02:48,120of lawyers being not just experts, but expert generalists.4300:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,840Most professionals are experts in one area, very narrow area.4400:02:51,840 --> 00:02:58,720In the case of lawyers it's the law but frankly very limited capabilities and skills and things4500:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,480beyond that area.4600:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,240The idea of a T-Shift professional is the idea of you want to be an expert in one area4700:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,360but you want to be a generalist in other areas.4800:03:07,360 --> 00:03:12,120That way you can collaborate with your cross-functional colleagues better.4900:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,440You can solve complex problems and innovate for the company, the organisation, not just5000:03:16,440 --> 00:03:17,440the legal department.5100:03:17,440 --> 00:03:23,000The idea of the T-Shift lawyer is if you click that down and explain what that means, it's5200:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,760simply the idea of being the legal expert business generalist.5300:03:28,760 --> 00:03:34,880The horizontal bar is really about not just developing some business and non-legal skills5400:03:34,880 --> 00:03:41,080but rather about doing business work and that's what I click into in the program.5500:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,800The idea of what is business work and how is that contrast with legal work?5600:03:44,800 --> 00:03:45,800What is legal work?5700:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,600The T-Shift professional provides business advice and import, not just legal advice and5800:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,720import and who does business work, not just legal work.5900:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,040For the benefit of the company, not just the legal department.6000:03:57,040 --> 00:04:02,160What are your books, the T-Shift lawyer, a new vision for you and your work and the T-Shift6100:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,240lawyer guidebook, a framework for your professional development about?6200:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,000The T-Shift lawyer, a new vision for you and your work is really about what a T-Shift6300:04:11,000 --> 00:04:12,000lawyer is.6400:04:12,000 --> 00:04:17,240What's business work and the different types of business work and why it's important6500:04:17,240 --> 00:04:18,240to become one?6600:04:18,240 --> 00:04:19,400What and why?6700:04:19,400 --> 00:04:25,720The second book, The Guidebook is about how to become a T-Shift lawyer through what I developed6800:04:25,720 --> 00:04:31,560the T-Shift lawyer framework, which is a combination of qualities, not skills.6900:04:31,560 --> 00:04:37,000The way you develop a quality and the way you use it in your work is very different7000:04:37,000 --> 00:04:42,320from how you develop and use a skill like design thinking or project management.7100:04:42,320 --> 00:04:48,800So I distinguish between skills, competencies, qualities, mindsets and knowledge and I have7200:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,200a specific combination of those things that I used when I was a lawyer and I explained7300:04:53,200 --> 00:05:00,000in that book how to do that and various organizations, firms and legal departments use the framework7400:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,920as the basis for their professional development.7500:05:02,920 --> 00:05:10,600Why should legal teams prioritize this type of human transformation over digital transformation?7600:05:10,600 --> 00:05:17,520By human transformation, what I mean is changing your work, who you are and your capabilities7700:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,760to do different work, not just doing your current work more efficiently.7800:05:21,760 --> 00:05:26,720If you think about it in the legal profession today, there's a lot of focus on tech and7900:05:26,720 --> 00:05:34,480process. Yes, there's some consideration of the impact of changing tech and process on people,8000:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,400but that's an indirect way of thinking about it.8100:05:37,400 --> 00:05:44,480For me, it's more important to focus on what lawyers actually do and expanding their capability8200:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,600to do new things so that they can add more value because doing the same things more efficiently8300:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,400doesn't add a whole lot of value to the client's point of view.8400:05:52,400 --> 00:05:57,080It may reduce cost, it may allow you to get through some work more quickly and that's a good8500:05:57,080 --> 00:06:04,040thing, not a bad thing, but the beneficiaries of those changes are primarily the legal department8600:06:04,040 --> 00:06:05,040or the firm.8700:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,840The client, there's an incidental benefit maybe at best.8800:06:08,840 --> 00:06:13,960The idea of focusing on what people do, in other words, this t-shirt, lawyer idea, the idea8900:06:13,960 --> 00:06:19,400of changing that work and transforming that work has the potential to add much more value9000:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,520from the client perspective to prepare lawyers better for the future.9100:06:23,520 --> 00:06:30,040A lot of work that lawyers do is being assumed by technology, so that should be the question9200:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,880of what other work could lawyers do.9300:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,640The answer is they can do business work and become a t-shaped lawyer.9400:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,000That holds a very exciting promise for the future.9500:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,960How do you see the practice of law evolving?9600:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,800It does depend on where people are going to focus.9700:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,040Are they going to continue to focus on tech?9800:06:48,040 --> 00:06:49,040I'm a big tech fan.9900:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,080I've worked for technology companies for my entire in-house career.10000:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,200I managed a group of technology folks.10100:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,600It's very important, but I think it's a question.10200:06:58,600 --> 00:07:05,760Our legal department is going to fundamentally continue to focus on internal and trying to10300:07:05,760 --> 00:07:10,240make their work more efficient, or are they going to think more about outcomes?10400:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,800What are the outcomes the clients need and how can they deliver those outcomes in new10500:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,440ways and how can they transform themselves?10600:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,960If they do that, I think it's very exciting, but at the moment I see a big trap that people10700:07:21,960 --> 00:07:27,640are just focused so much on tech that they're really only thinking about the knock-on effect10800:07:27,640 --> 00:07:33,320of that tech on humans rather than thinking about humans first and how they can change the10900:07:33,320 --> 00:07:34,320work they do.11000:07:34,320 --> 00:07:35,320I'm optimistic.11100:07:35,320 --> 00:07:40,480I think there is a great future for lawyers, but there's a need for lawyers to reinvent themselves,11200:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,240and I don't think that's happening.11300:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,600How can listeners learn more about your work?11400:07:44,600 --> 00:07:49,000The best thing is to go to my website, t-shapeloyeroneword.com.11500:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,980There are free articles there.11600:07:50,980 --> 00:07:55,920There are links to the books available on Amazon and also references to the bootcamps.11700:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,640That would be the best way to get into it, or connect with me on LinkedIn.11800:08:00,640 --> 00:08:07,280This is Ari Katlin speaking with Peter Connor, a lawyer, the author of two books, the T-Shapeloyer11900:08:07,280 --> 00:08:12,600and the T-Shapeloyer Guidebook, and a legal team coach with alternatively legal based in12000:08:12,600 --> 00:08:13,600Australia.12100:08:13,600 --> 00:08:14,400Peter, it's been a privilege.12200:08:14,400 --> 00:08:15,400Thank you so much.12300:08:15,400 --> 00:08:16,400Thanks, Ari.12400:08:16,400 --> 00:08:17,400Likewise.12500:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,600Thank you for listening to the reinventing professionals podcast.12600:08:21,600 --> 00:08:28,080Visit reinventingprofessionals.com or Ari Katlin Advisors.com to learn more.