WEBVTT
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Rob Watson: Tell us who you are, what you’re doing here today.
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Xiaoye Zhang: Good morning, my name is Xiaoye and I am senior lecturer from DMU, and today I’m here with Rob visiting Brewhouse Art Gallery in Burton-on-Trent to see an exhibition done by prisoner artists from Dovegate, I believe a local prison 10 minutes away.
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Rob Watson: And what are we looking at?
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Xiaoye Zhang: We are looking at a range of artworks produced by the prisoner artists, including paintings, sculptures made from materials available to them inside, such as cardboards, papers, sawdust, etc., and different kinds of oil paintings, watercolours.
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Rob Watson: Should we go and have a look at some and you can describe them?
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Xiaoye Zhang: Oh yeah, sure.
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Rob Watson: Where do you want to start?
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Xiaoye Zhang: I’m going to have a look at the little introduction to the exhibition which is called Art and Ceramics at the Brewhouse HMP Dovegate.
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Xiaoye Zhang: (Reading) Art and ceramics in prison offer more than just a creative outlet. They provide a space for reflection, skill building and personal growth. Through painting, sculpture and pottery, learners explore self-expression, develop patience and focus, and gain practical skills that can support them during and after their sentence.
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Xiaoye Zhang: (Reading) Here is a selection of work created by learners from the art and ceramics class at HMP Dovegate. Some of these pieces have recently won prizes in the Koestler Art Awards and have been exhibited at London Southbank Centre. HMP Dovegate is also a two-time Koestler platinum award-winning establishment. Creativity becomes a tool for empowerment, connection and positive change.
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Charlie Birtles: So my name’s Charlie Birtles and I’m audience and participation development officer at the Brewhouse Art Centre.
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Rob Watson: What does that involve?
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Charlie Birtles: Oh, that’s a good question. All sorts of things. The way that I view it is mainly around encouraging people to come and visit our venue and engage with the programs that we offer. And that for me is kind of that warm welcome, how people access the space. My role’s kind of involved with outreach work that we do within communities and making sure our program reflects those that live in our town and visit our town as well.
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Rob Watson: How important is arts and Brewhouse’s role in promoting arts in Burton-on-Trent and the surrounding area?
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Charlie Birtles: Ah, that’s a great question. So, interestingly enough the Brewhouse was kind of born—so we used to be an old store warehouse for the brewing industry. And it started because there was a real appetite in Burton-upon-Trent for lots of amateur dramatic groups and they needed a space, they needed a venue to be able to actually showcase the productions that they made.
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Charlie Birtles: So that’s where our origins came from and we are council-owned now, we're council-run with funded by East Staffordshire Borough Council. So it’s kind of gradually through the years that that’s become part of the council’s asset. But that amateur dramatic community is really thriving and so that underpins the work that we do and then as a team, as an arts team, we I suppose we enhance that with programming other professional shows into the theatre program. We also run a workshop program and that links across many different disciplines, so whether it’s health and wellbeing, we work with the social prescribing service. Yeah.
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Rob Watson: So what’s the kind of work that you—describe the work that’s visible to us. What was your first impression when you walked in?
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Xiaoye Zhang: Colors. Definitely the vibrancy of colors that you see and I think all of the artworks are really, really colorful and also the variety of categories. I kind of assumed that it was probably mostly paintings but there’s also ceramics and sculptures. I’ve not had time to dive deeper. I feel like each of them have a lot of information and some of them have text written on the artwork as well.
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Xiaoye Zhang: For example, I’m standing in front of this piece called “Battling My Addictions” which is a ceramic acrylic piece called “Jack in His Box”. And it is a—I'd say a clown type of figure on a square wall structure. And the clown is wearing purple polka dot coat, a pointy light purple hat, yellow face and there are butterflies at the base of the structure. And the text read: “A day in the life of battling my addiction. I’d always rise and fall. But now I’ve come out of the darkness and finally standing tall. With a spring in my step, I’m finally free. Free of my addictions and in recovery. After working on my addictions and finally unpicking all my inner locks, nobody will ever put this Jack back in his box.”
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Xiaoye Zhang: Now, we were just looking at the exhibitions and telling listeners a little bit about the exhibition. Do you want to introduce a little bit of your collaboration especially over the years and how did it start and what’s it like—how it's changed over the years with Dovegate?
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah. So HMP Dovegate, this is their first year in probably about I’m going to say five, six years of re-exhibiting at the Brewhouse. My understanding is kind of prior to the COVID pandemic they used to exhibit here quite regularly, almost annually. And we were approached by Julie who oversees the education program at HMP Dovegate to try and resurrect that as a collaboration.
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Charlie Birtles: So we’re quite gifted in that we have lots of space at the Brewhouse. We run a professional gallery program where we curate exhibitors’ showcases, mainly local artists. And then we also have our community gallery space. So for me, Dovegate really fitted well as to what we’d like to showcase within that community gallery in terms of—for me the exhibition gives a voice to those that are unable to share at this moment in time and it connects them to the communities that they’re wanting to kind of step back into once they’ve ended their rehabilitation process.
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Charlie Birtles: And yeah, so as I say Julie got in contact with us. She’s full of energy, full of passion for what rehabilitation and skills development can really give to those that are prisoners within HMP Dovegate. And I have to say the reaction from everyone from those that come into our doors every day, it’s really been vibrant in the space. There’s such an array of talent, the level of skill that many of the artworks demonstrate.
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Charlie Birtles: And for me myself, a lot of the curation element to the exhibition in terms of—you’ll see kind of interpretation panels underneath each of the artworks, they really tell a story for me of the individual that’s created that artwork. Some are really quite personal, some you can really tell how much that has through creating the work, how much that has helped them upon their journey and provided a space for them to kind of reflect as well.
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Xiaoye Zhang: Are there any themes, like the Koestler exhibitions, for Dovegate’s exhibitions here?
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Charlie Birtles: They haven’t this year. I think many of the—so it’s interesting we timed the exhibition so that it allowed HMP Dovegate to exhibit works at Koestler and then it would come here afterwards. Because I understand that they’re very successful with the awards, they exhibit there quite regularly and understandably so, they they are rewarded from that with the awards that are given. So no, there’s not been a general theme that they’ve worked to for this exhibition.
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Charlie Birtles: For me it’s just a—it's an array of what that individual has wanted to create to showcase. And not all the art—new, I understand you know some will be favored originals that that were developed many years ago but they’ve found the opportunity to showcase that outside of just the prison service.
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Xiaoye Zhang: Can you buy them?
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Charlie Birtles: Good question.
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Xiaoye Zhang: Because at Koestler you can and I’ve bought quite a few from Koestler.
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah. We had—in our initial discussions we we did talk about having them for sale. I think given that this is the first time back exhibiting, we they haven’t put them for sale this time. But I think in future there’s been many conversations with the tutors as they were putting up the artworks that they could be for sale.
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Charlie Birtles: The original conversation was around any revenue generated through that could then be given to a community cause. You know, there wouldn’t be a profit, it would be a donation in that sense as well.
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Rob Watson: Do you have any favorite or anything that stands out to you?
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah. I think I pointed one out to you originally when you first stepped in through the doors which is—so it’s a miniature train set that on the face of it looks like it’s made from wood or like it’s a plastic model. It’s called “A Tribute to the Local Workhorse”. And for me I think what I was so struck by was the intricacy of it. It’s so delicately made. But also it’s made of paper, which I think is quite surprising.
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Charlie Birtles: It looks really robust and I I can just imagine that it’s taken so much patience and a dedication of time and passion by the person who’s created it. Obviously connecting to the place it’s—talking about it being once being a common sight in the Midlands hauling passengers and freight. He built the model entirely from recycled materials—card, matchsticks and sawdust, following an original drawing and he was inspired by both its design and legendary legacy. So yeah, I was inspired by it too.
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Rob Watson: What then is the value—I mean from a general perspective you’re not involved with them directly with the people who’ve made the work directly but what do you think the value is for—'cause one of the big focuses is rehabilitative work. What do you think the value is for doing art like this and exhibiting it and being part of something more than just self-reflection in a locked in environment?
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Charlie Birtles: It’s part of the bigger picture, isn’t it? It’s connecting to a wider world that’s outside of the service that they’re sitting within currently. To create a piece that’s then seen by other people external that are within the communities that perhaps they might not have lived in.
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Charlie Birtles: But I I just I think that’s something quite powerful and it’s given them autonomy and a voice to be able to share with other people what they’re currently experiencing through their rehabilitation process. I think I’ve also touched upon as well that as part of the exhibition there’s a comments box where they’re asking anyone who’s viewed the works to share their thoughts either about a particular piece or just the exhibition in general.
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Charlie Birtles: And I think that’s really powerful tool to be able to give that back to someone as well and to hear or—but see the words that have been written down about something that they’ve created that another person has seen. I hope that that will benefit them in terms of their self-worth and confidence and pride in what’s been created.
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Rob Watson: I was chatting to an artist yesterday and we were—I asked the question what are they looking forward to and they said getting out into the spring and seeing the world. And this is a group of people who can’t do that. And so they have to draw on something inside themselves. How do you think from looking at the work, what would be your interpretation of that inward self-reflection process or does this fit with other art activities that you run here and your experience of working with different types of artists? Because it is a case of people who are locked away and they’ve got to learn to use their imagination I suppose.
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Charlie Birtles: Hmm. Yeah, definitely. I think you can pick that up in some of the artworks. You can see that—I’m thinking of on the board behind me we’ve got Frida Kahlo portraits that have clearly gone through a process as well where there’s been a pencil drawing…
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Xiaoye Zhang: I saw this one in Koestler this year. I saw that one, yeah.
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah. So you you can see it’s gone through a process of a small portrait, a large enhanced acrylic painted canvas and the design’s changed along the time. So you can almost see the transition process there of starting quite small of not being quite sure of testing things out to then really gaining momentum and confidence to that large scale vibrant painted canvas that has butterflies decorated across it that you know it feels much more emotive than a pencil drawing that’s been almost a carbon copy from perhaps a Google image or—yeah.
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Charlie Birtles: I think that demonstrates that kind of transition process as well.
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Rob Watson: I mean I suppose we’re seeing this at the output end and it’ll be interesting to talk to Julie at the—what this process is like at the input end, so we’ll try and arrange that at some point. What’s the kind of—I mean the the is it a trust that runs, you know, there’s a a board for Brewhouse. And how does that feedback in, is there a positive reinforcement for the work that takes—takes place in Brewhouse more generally? Does this kind of work give reinforcement or encouragement for that or inspiration for that?
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Charlie Birtles: I think given we have many user groups that come and use our space, whether that’s attending a show or a workshop or putting on a performance, I think to see creations in a an environment and to understand that they’ve been made by a person by hand, I would say is inspiring or—yeah.
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Rob Watson: There’s—there’s something which we’re not very good at expressing these days. There’s a joyfulness to it.
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah, there is. I think I mentioned that there’s been such a vibrancy in the space. And it’s not just the colors that are used on the canvas, it’s the fact that it’s full of creative ideas and creative minds that have produced an output. So it’s almost you can—yes it’s an output on a wall but you understand it’s gone through a process as well. That’s been obvious to us I think, those lots of passing comments of it’s been great to see the artwork and even those who might not necessarily engage in creating artwork.
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Rob Watson: I’ve got one more question, but have you got any questions?
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Xiaoye Zhang: I was interested to know if you’ve organized any kinds of events associated with this, so it’s not just on display in a space, but for example I could think of maybe a workshop with whoever’s interested or a special day where the family members of the prisoners come and they talk to each other or they talk about their experience of incarceration because it affects community as well. So is there any other related activities?
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah. So the the employees of Serco and the families of those who had loved ones who created the artworks—the artists behind the works—they had an opening celebration event on an evening for a couple of hours where they could come and view all the works. They had lots and lots of food that was created from the in-house kitchens as well, which was very well received.
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Charlie Birtles: And it felt like a real celebration. So they had—I’m going to get this wrong now but they had High Sheriffs here as well for Derbyshire and Staffordshire as well, which I suppose for me kind of spoke of the significance that they held on this exhibition that it was something to be really celebrated and recognized from not just the families of individuals or not just the employees, of a much wider circle as well.
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Rob Watson: I’m going to crack a poor joke—it takes more than a probation officer to bring about rehabilitation, it needs a community around it. I won’t use that one too often.
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Rob Watson: The last question I’ve got for you is where can people find out more information about Brewhouse?
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Charlie Birtles: Oh yeah, of course. You can visit our Brewhouse website which is brewhouse.co.uk. There are a couple of Brewhouses, there’s one in Taunton but we are Brewhouse Art Centre in Burton-on-Trent. And yeah, so we’ve got website, Facebook, Instagram, X, wherever you want—yeah all sorts of social media profiles as well. So yeah, visit our website.
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Charlie Birtles: We have a annual—broch—seasonal brochure as well which is viewable on the website or paper copies if anyone is nearby wants to come pop in.
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Xiaoye Zhang: It’s quite surprising that I’ve just made the connection now that I’m here that they are Dovegate, which I actually—it’s probably the only one or one of the few prison names that I’ve remembered from Koestler because of how many multiple submissions they always have each year. So I’ve been going to Koestler exhibitions in Southbank Centre for three years in a row now and Dovegate definitely stands out as an institution that really support art.
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Xiaoye Zhang: So it’s a really nice surprise to see that they are here in the Midlands and be able to maybe connect in the future with them and get to know more about their institutions. Like you mentioned earlier, it’s all about connections—people are doing things in pockets and if there’s not a chances like that you might be an hour away and never hear about each other.
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Rob Watson: Just explain what Koestler are.
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Xiaoye Zhang: So Koestler Arts is an arts in criminal justice charity that’s been around for a very long time, probably over 50 years if I remember right. And they are the biggest prison art competition in the UK. They have I think more than 50, 60 categories of submission. So you can submit spoken word, poem, painting, drawing, sculpture, pottery, all sorts of different kinds of artwork through your institution to Koestler.
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Xiaoye Zhang: And they have a panel of artists to judge your work and selected work is exhibited at the Southbank Centre in London around November time. And they have different artists curating the exhibition—Ai Weiwei for example one curated one exhibition for Koestler a few years back. So it’s always a great event to go to. There’s guided tours, there’s talks, sometimes spoken poetry evenings where ex-award winners that’s returned to the community will come and present their work and talk about their experience.
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Rob Watson: How then does this exhibition fit in with that wider picture of art in the criminal justice process?
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Xiaoye Zhang: I think on different levels. For example, you just notice the institutional difference, so you’re reminded—at least for me as someone who works in this field—of the process, what the process involves that’s so much more beyond the end product. For example, policy, management, support and also passionate individuals that really is needed.
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Xiaoye Zhang: Just because there’s a Koestler award in the UK doesn’t mean that all prisoners and all prisons in the UK gets to be part of it. There are many institutions that do not have such level of support. So you do see the that side of arts in prison. But amazingly there are loads, there’s thousands of submission each year which means that those invisible, those officers behind them that help them.
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Xiaoye Zhang: And sometimes you can see those support being mentioned in the artwork as well. And this year, so for example I’ve heard one of the officers who’s always supported a prisoner who submit each year has passed away. So and it manifested in the work. So you see the nuance in the process through the exhibition.
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Rob Watson: And given the—your experience and your research experience in this kind of field, what—how does this add, support, fit with the the kind of work that you see and you’re interested in?
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Xiaoye Zhang: I think having a prize, a competition is quite special. It’s different from just having exhibition because there is more intense interaction between the artist community and more interaction between the so-called professional and amateur creativity. And also having a curated themed exhibition also give it more focus so general public can engage it with.
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Xiaoye Zhang: It’s easier for them to process I think how does this exhibition relates to other exhibitions that they see in galleries and museum everyday. It’s not just focusing on their identity as being prisoners and making a big deal only on the fact that they are incarcerated which could be sometimes romanticized or you know, but it’s on the artwork and creativity itself which is situated in prison but it’s about the person, it’s about their life journeys and it’s about creativity itself.
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Rob Watson: Thank you very much for listening, please stay tuned for more episodes in the future.
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Xiaoye Zhang: And you can find more information at—
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Rob Watson: We’ll put it in the—yeah it’s criminaljusticenetwork.net. It’s alright, it goes out on the—thing, that's fine. Okay."
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Rob Watson: Tell us who you are, what you’re doing here today.
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Xiaoye Zhang: Good morning, my name is Xiaoye and I am senior lecturer from DMU, and today I’m here with Rob visiting Brewhouse Art Gallery in Burton-on-Trent to see an exhibition done by prisoner artists from Dovegate, I believe a local prison 10 minutes away.
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Rob Watson: And what are we looking at?
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Xiaoye Zhang: We are looking at a range of artworks produced by the prisoner artists, including paintings, sculptures made from materials available to them inside, such as cardboards, papers, sawdust, etc., and different kinds of oil paintings, watercolours.
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Rob Watson: Should we go and have a look at some and you can describe them?
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Xiaoye Zhang: Oh yeah, sure.
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Rob Watson: Where do you want to start?
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Xiaoye Zhang: I’m going to have a look at the little introduction to the exhibition which is called Art and Ceramics at the Brewhouse HMP Dovegate.
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Xiaoye Zhang: (Reading) Art and ceramics in prison offer more than just a creative outlet. They provide a space for reflection, skill building and personal growth. Through painting, sculpture and pottery, learners explore self-expression, develop patience and focus, and gain practical skills that can support them during and after their sentence.
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Xiaoye Zhang: (Reading) Here is a selection of work created by learners from the art and ceramics class at HMP Dovegate. Some of these pieces have recently won prizes in the Koestler Art Awards and have been exhibited at London Southbank Centre. HMP Dovegate is also a two-time Koestler platinum award-winning establishment. Creativity becomes a tool for empowerment, connection and positive change.
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Charlie Birtles: So my name’s Charlie Birtles and I’m audience and participation development officer at the Brewhouse Art Centre.
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Rob Watson: What does that involve?
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Charlie Birtles: Oh, that’s a good question. All sorts of things. The way that I view it is mainly around encouraging people to come and visit our venue and engage with the programs that we offer. And that for me is kind of that warm welcome, how people access the space. My role’s kind of involved with outreach work that we do within communities and making sure our program reflects those that live in our town and visit our town as well.
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Rob Watson: How important is arts and Brewhouse’s role in promoting arts in Burton-on-Trent and the surrounding area?
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Charlie Birtles: Ah, that’s a great question. So, interestingly enough the Brewhouse was kind of born—so we used to be an old store warehouse for the brewing industry. And it started because there was a real appetite in Burton-upon-Trent for lots of amateur dramatic groups and they needed a space, they needed a venue to be able to actually showcase the productions that they made.
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Charlie Birtles: So that’s where our origins came from and we are council-owned now, we're council-run with funded by East Staffordshire Borough Council. So it’s kind of gradually through the years that that’s become part of the council’s asset. But that amateur dramatic community is really thriving and so that underpins the work that we do and then as a team, as an arts team, we I suppose we enhance that with programming other professional shows into the theatre program. We also run a workshop program and that links across many different disciplines, so whether it’s health and wellbeing, we work with the social prescribing service. Yeah.
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Rob Watson: So what’s the kind of work that you—describe the work that’s visible to us. What was your first impression when you walked in?
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Xiaoye Zhang: Colors. Definitely the vibrancy of colors that you see and I think all of the artworks are really, really colorful and also the variety of categories. I kind of assumed that it was probably mostly paintings but there’s also ceramics and sculptures. I’ve not had time to dive deeper. I feel like each of them have a lot of information and some of them have text written on the artwork as well.
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Xiaoye Zhang: For example, I’m standing in front of this piece called “Battling My Addictions” which is a ceramic acrylic piece called “Jack in His Box”. And it is a—I'd say a clown type of figure on a square wall structure. And the clown is wearing purple polka dot coat, a pointy light purple hat, yellow face and there are butterflies at the base of the structure. And the text read: “A day in the life of battling my addiction. I’d always rise and fall. But now I’ve come out of the darkness and finally standing tall. With a spring in my step, I’m finally free. Free of my addictions and in recovery. After working on my addictions and finally unpicking all my inner locks, nobody will ever put this Jack back in his box.”
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Xiaoye Zhang: Now, we were just looking at the exhibitions and telling listeners a little bit about the exhibition. Do you want to introduce a little bit of your collaboration especially over the years and how did it start and what’s it like—how it's changed over the years with Dovegate?
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah. So HMP Dovegate, this is their first year in probably about I’m going to say five, six years of re-exhibiting at the Brewhouse. My understanding is kind of prior to the COVID pandemic they used to exhibit here quite regularly, almost annually. And we were approached by Julie who oversees the education program at HMP Dovegate to try and resurrect that as a collaboration.
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Charlie Birtles: So we’re quite gifted in that we have lots of space at the Brewhouse. We run a professional gallery program where we curate exhibitors’ showcases, mainly local artists. And then we also have our community gallery space. So for me, Dovegate really fitted well as to what we’d like to showcase within that community gallery in terms of—for me the exhibition gives a voice to those that are unable to share at this moment in time and it connects them to the communities that they’re wanting to kind of step back into once they’ve ended their rehabilitation process.
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Charlie Birtles: And yeah, so as I say Julie got in contact with us. She’s full of energy, full of passion for what rehabilitation and skills development can really give to those that are prisoners within HMP Dovegate. And I have to say the reaction from everyone from those that come into our doors every day, it’s really been vibrant in the space. There’s such an array of talent, the level of skill that many of the artworks demonstrate.
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Charlie Birtles: And for me myself, a lot of the curation element to the exhibition in terms of—you’ll see kind of interpretation panels underneath each of the artworks, they really tell a story for me of the individual that’s created that artwork. Some are really quite personal, some you can really tell how much that has through creating the work, how much that has helped them upon their journey and provided a space for them to kind of reflect as well.
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Xiaoye Zhang: Are there any themes, like the Koestler exhibitions, for Dovegate’s exhibitions here?
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Charlie Birtles: They haven’t this year. I think many of the—so it’s interesting we timed the exhibition so that it allowed HMP Dovegate to exhibit works at Koestler and then it would come here afterwards. Because I understand that they’re very successful with the awards, they exhibit there quite regularly and understandably so, they they are rewarded from that with the awards that are given. So no, there’s not been a general theme that they’ve worked to for this exhibition.
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Charlie Birtles: For me it’s just a—it's an array of what that individual has wanted to create to showcase. And not all the art—new, I understand you know some will be favored originals that that were developed many years ago but they’ve found the opportunity to showcase that outside of just the prison service.
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Xiaoye Zhang: Can you buy them?
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Charlie Birtles: Good question.
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Xiaoye Zhang: Because at Koestler you can and I’ve bought quite a few from Koestler.
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah. We had—in our initial discussions we we did talk about having them for sale. I think given that this is the first time back exhibiting, we they haven’t put them for sale this time. But I think in future there’s been many conversations with the tutors as they were putting up the artworks that they could be for sale.
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Charlie Birtles: The original conversation was around any revenue generated through that could then be given to a community cause. You know, there wouldn’t be a profit, it would be a donation in that sense as well.
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Rob Watson: Do you have any favorite or anything that stands out to you?
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah. I think I pointed one out to you originally when you first stepped in through the doors which is—so it’s a miniature train set that on the face of it looks like it’s made from wood or like it’s a plastic model. It’s called “A Tribute to the Local Workhorse”. And for me I think what I was so struck by was the intricacy of it. It’s so delicately made. But also it’s made of paper, which I think is quite surprising.
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Charlie Birtles: It looks really robust and I I can just imagine that it’s taken so much patience and a dedication of time and passion by the person who’s created it. Obviously connecting to the place it’s—talking about it being once being a common sight in the Midlands hauling passengers and freight. He built the model entirely from recycled materials—card, matchsticks and sawdust, following an original drawing and he was inspired by both its design and legendary legacy. So yeah, I was inspired by it too.
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Rob Watson: What then is the value—I mean from a general perspective you’re not involved with them directly with the people who’ve made the work directly but what do you think the value is for—'cause one of the big focuses is rehabilitative work. What do you think the value is for doing art like this and exhibiting it and being part of something more than just self-reflection in a locked in environment?
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Charlie Birtles: It’s part of the bigger picture, isn’t it? It’s connecting to a wider world that’s outside of the service that they’re sitting within currently. To create a piece that’s then seen by other people external that are within the communities that perhaps they might not have lived in.
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Charlie Birtles: But I I just I think that’s something quite powerful and it’s given them autonomy and a voice to be able to share with other people what they’re currently experiencing through their rehabilitation process. I think I’ve also touched upon as well that as part of the exhibition there’s a comments box where they’re asking anyone who’s viewed the works to share their thoughts either about a particular piece or just the exhibition in general.
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Charlie Birtles: And I think that’s really powerful tool to be able to give that back to someone as well and to hear or—but see the words that have been written down about something that they’ve created that another person has seen. I hope that that will benefit them in terms of their self-worth and confidence and pride in what’s been created.
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Rob Watson: I was chatting to an artist yesterday and we were—I asked the question what are they looking forward to and they said getting out into the spring and seeing the world. And this is a group of people who can’t do that. And so they have to draw on something inside themselves. How do you think from looking at the work, what would be your interpretation of that inward self-reflection process or does this fit with other art activities that you run here and your experience of working with different types of artists? Because it is a case of people who are locked away and they’ve got to learn to use their imagination I suppose.
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Charlie Birtles: Hmm. Yeah, definitely. I think you can pick that up in some of the artworks. You can see that—I’m thinking of on the board behind me we’ve got Frida Kahlo portraits that have clearly gone through a process as well where there’s been a pencil drawing…
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Xiaoye Zhang: I saw this one in Koestler this year. I saw that one, yeah.
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah. So you you can see it’s gone through a process of a small portrait, a large enhanced acrylic painted canvas and the design’s changed along the time. So you can almost see the transition process there of starting quite small of not being quite sure of testing things out to then really gaining momentum and confidence to that large scale vibrant painted canvas that has butterflies decorated across it that you know it feels much more emotive than a pencil drawing that’s been almost a carbon copy from perhaps a Google image or—yeah.
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Charlie Birtles: I think that demonstrates that kind of transition process as well.
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Rob Watson: I mean I suppose we’re seeing this at the output end and it’ll be interesting to talk to Julie at the—what this process is like at the input end, so we’ll try and arrange that at some point. What’s the kind of—I mean the the is it a trust that runs, you know, there’s a a board for Brewhouse. And how does that feedback in, is there a positive reinforcement for the work that takes—takes place in Brewhouse more generally? Does this kind of work give reinforcement or encouragement for that or inspiration for that?
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Charlie Birtles: I think given we have many user groups that come and use our space, whether that’s attending a show or a workshop or putting on a performance, I think to see creations in a an environment and to understand that they’ve been made by a person by hand, I would say is inspiring or—yeah.
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Rob Watson: There’s—there’s something which we’re not very good at expressing these days. There’s a joyfulness to it.
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah, there is. I think I mentioned that there’s been such a vibrancy in the space. And it’s not just the colors that are used on the canvas, it’s the fact that it’s full of creative ideas and creative minds that have produced an output. So it’s almost you can—yes it’s an output on a wall but you understand it’s gone through a process as well. That’s been obvious to us I think, those lots of passing comments of it’s been great to see the artwork and even those who might not necessarily engage in creating artwork.
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Rob Watson: I’ve got one more question, but have you got any questions?
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Xiaoye Zhang: I was interested to know if you’ve organized any kinds of events associated with this, so it’s not just on display in a space, but for example I could think of maybe a workshop with whoever’s interested or a special day where the family members of the prisoners come and they talk to each other or they talk about their experience of incarceration because it affects community as well. So is there any other related activities?
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Charlie Birtles: Yeah. So the the employees of Serco and the families of those who had loved ones who created the artworks—the artists behind the works—they had an opening celebration event on an evening for a couple of hours where they could come and view all the works. They had lots and lots of food that was created from the in-house kitchens as well, which was very well received.
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Charlie Birtles: And it felt like a real celebration. So they had—I’m going to get this wrong now but they had High Sheriffs here as well for Derbyshire and Staffordshire as well, which I suppose for me kind of spoke of the significance that they held on this exhibition that it was something to be really celebrated and recognized from not just the families of individuals or not just the employees, of a much wider circle as well.
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Rob Watson: I’m going to crack a poor joke—it takes more than a probation officer to bring about rehabilitation, it needs a community around it. I won’t use that one too often.
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Rob Watson: The last question I’ve got for you is where can people find out more information about Brewhouse?
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Charlie Birtles: Oh yeah, of course. You can visit our Brewhouse website which is brewhouse.co.uk. There are a couple of Brewhouses, there’s one in Taunton but we are Brewhouse Art Centre in Burton-on-Trent. And yeah, so we’ve got website, Facebook, Instagram, X, wherever you want—yeah all sorts of social media profiles as well. So yeah, visit our website.
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Charlie Birtles: We have a annual—broch—seasonal brochure as well which is viewable on the website or paper copies if anyone is nearby wants to come pop in.
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Xiaoye Zhang: It’s quite surprising that I’ve just made the connection now that I’m here that they are Dovegate, which I actually—it’s probably the only one or one of the few prison names that I’ve remembered from Koestler because of how many multiple submissions they always have each year. So I’ve been going to Koestler exhibitions in Southbank Centre for three years in a row now and Dovegate definitely stands out as an institution that really support art.
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Xiaoye Zhang: So it’s a really nice surprise to see that they are here in the Midlands and be able to maybe connect in the future with them and get to know more about their institutions. Like you mentioned earlier, it’s all about connections—people are doing things in pockets and if there’s not a chances like that you might be an hour away and never hear about each other.
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Rob Watson: Just explain what Koestler are.
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Xiaoye Zhang: So Koestler Arts is an arts in criminal justice charity that’s been around for a very long time, probably over 50 years if I remember right. And they are the biggest prison art competition in the UK. They have I think more than 50, 60 categories of submission. So you can submit spoken word, poem, painting, drawing, sculpture, pottery, all sorts of different kinds of artwork through your institution to Koestler.
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Xiaoye Zhang: And they have a panel of artists to judge your work and selected work is exhibited at the Southbank Centre in London around November time. And they have different artists curating the exhibition—Ai Weiwei for example one curated one exhibition for Koestler a few years back. So it’s always a great event to go to. There’s guided tours, there’s talks, sometimes spoken poetry evenings where ex-award winners that’s returned to the community will come and present their work and talk about their experience.
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Rob Watson: How then does this exhibition fit in with that wider picture of art in the criminal justice process?
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Xiaoye Zhang: I think on different levels. For example, you just notice the institutional difference, so you’re reminded—at least for me as someone who works in this field—of the process, what the process involves that’s so much more beyond the end product. For example, policy, management, support and also passionate individuals that really is needed.
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Xiaoye Zhang: Just because there’s a Koestler award in the UK doesn’t mean that all prisoners and all prisons in the UK gets to be part of it. There are many institutions that do not have such level of support. So you do see the that side of arts in prison. But amazingly there are loads, there’s thousands of submission each year which means that those invisible, those officers behind them that help them.
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Xiaoye Zhang: And sometimes you can see those support being mentioned in the artwork as well. And this year, so for example I’ve heard one of the officers who’s always supported a prisoner who submit each year has passed away. So and it manifested in the work. So you see the nuance in the process through the exhibition.
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Rob Watson: And given the—your experience and your research experience in this kind of field, what—how does this add, support, fit with the the kind of work that you see and you’re interested in?
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Xiaoye Zhang: I think having a prize, a competition is quite special. It’s different from just having exhibition because there is more intense interaction between the artist community and more interaction between the so-called professional and amateur creativity. And also having a curated themed exhibition also give it more focus so general public can engage it with.
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Xiaoye Zhang: It’s easier for them to process I think how does this exhibition relates to other exhibitions that they see in galleries and museum everyday. It’s not just focusing on their identity as being prisoners and making a big deal only on the fact that they are incarcerated which could be sometimes romanticized or you know, but it’s on the artwork and creativity itself which is situated in prison but it’s about the person, it’s about their life journeys and it’s about creativity itself.
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Rob Watson: Thank you very much for listening, please stay tuned for more episodes in the future.
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Xiaoye Zhang: And you can find more information at—
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Rob Watson: We’ll put it in the—yeah it’s criminaljusticenetwork.net. It’s alright, it goes out on the—thing, that's fine. Okay."
