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Well, I think the problem is that we do take
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life too seriously. And we beat ourselves up if we're
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not being creative. And when we say, now I want
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you to just try this tool, then you say, try? Well,
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that doesn't sound too hard. And when you find yourself saying,
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that doesn't sound too hard, Then you find yourself saying, well,
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I think I could give it a try.
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Hi everyone. Welcome back to Radio Headspace.
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So a few years ago, I had a little bit
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of writer's block and I stumbled upon The Artist's Way
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by Julia Cameron, which is the guidebook designed to help
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anyone reconnect with their creative self.
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And I have to say it works.
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Now, one of the key practices is something called morning pages.
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which is a process where you write out the first
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thing that comes to mind.
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You do this every morning.
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So I invited the icon herself, Julia Cameron, on the
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show today to help us rediscover our inner artist.
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I really hope you enjoy this conversation. Hi, Julia.
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It's so nice to meet you and to have this
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conversation with you.
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I've been looking forward to it for a really long time.
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Well, I've been looking forward to talking to you, too.
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I love your name.
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Thank you.
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I guess we should back up just a little bit
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for the people that aren't familiar with The Artist's Way,
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which is one of, I think, if not the most
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effective piece of literature that helps us in creating great habits.
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So what inspired you to write The Artist's Way, if
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you don't mind sharing?
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I came up with it through practice. I found myself
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living alone at the end of a little dirt road
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in a little adobe house, and I was lonely. And
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I had a table that looked out on Taos Mountain,
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which was a big mountain that changed weather every day.
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And I started getting up, and I would look out
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the window at the mountain, and I would write, Today
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it's cloudy. or today it's clear, or today there's snow
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on the crest. And I found myself writing three pages
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a day, and that they were a form of witness
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for me. I was no longer lonely. I had morning
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pages to talk to. And I think when people are
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blocked creatively, they're very lonely. They feel like, oh, what's
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the use? And when I say, well, the use is
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just try it and coax them into it. And what
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they do is they discover that they're interesting. And previously
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when they're blocked, they were saying, oh, I'm so boring.
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I can't think of anything to say or do. And
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I would say, well, just try writing these three pages
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and see if something doesn't come up for you.
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Yeah.
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Julia, what was the goal of The Artist's Way?
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The goal of the book was to help I thought
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a small group of people who were my friends who
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were blocked. But what I found was that it caught
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on very quickly. It became a pivotal tool for a
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number of people. So I didn't set out thinking, I'm
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going to write a book that will sell 5 million copies,
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which is what it has done. But I thought, I'm
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going to write a book to help people.
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You have absolutely created that. I think the goal has been,
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has been met. Can I ask you, I'm like, can
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I ask you a question? I'm just, I'm just so
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curious if, if you have ever experienced a period in
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your life where other priorities, like having an unfulfillment, having
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like an unfulfilling job or family responsibilities or financial stress.
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Anything that detracted you from doing creative work?
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And if you did, like, how did you deal with that?
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Well, again, I had the toolkit. I had the experience
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of working with the tools and having breakthroughs. So what
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I found was that I was very stubborn. When I
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was faced with a block, I would keep on using
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the tools. And using the tools that way persistently gave
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me a way to break through. And if you're asking
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if I've ever had a block, I've had many blocks,
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and they all yield to the tools.
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I think for me, one of the biggest obstacles I
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encountered when I first you know, started doing my morning pages,
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which was 20 years ago, was this sort of fear
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of rejection, like feeling, and it wasn't necessarily that I
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was wanting to become a writer. It was, it was
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more of what you've talked about in being an artist,
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being a creative. I just felt like, what if I
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bring my full self to the world and I get rejected?
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Well, this is where I think morning pages are so useful.
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because there's no wrong way to do morning pages. You
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just write whatever occurs to you, and you don't reject it.
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You say, this is how I happen to be feeling today.
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And I think that the habit of writing how I
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happen to be feeling today becomes a daily challenge. And
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you find yourself saying, I think I have an idea
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for a novel. Then you say, but who'd read it?
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And then you say, well, actually, I think I'd read it.
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And I think my friends would read it. And I
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think it's a good thing to have a goal. And
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I think it's a good thing to allow yourself the
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freedom to dream. And I think that's what happens. when
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people start working with the tools is that they begin
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to discover that they do have dreams and that they
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have the freedom to pursue those dreams.
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Yeah, that's a really, it's a really great point. And
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it's nice to have the permission to do that, to dream.
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I think so many times we just don't even allow
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ourselves the space because we feel like, who are we
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to dream dreams? about being a novelist or dream about
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being an artist or a musician or a poet or
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whatever it is. I think we don't even allow ourselves
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to have that framework because we're so quickly using the
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fluctuation of thought to stifle it.
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Well, we have a problem in this society, which is
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that We have a desire to not be too big
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for our britches. And so when we first start dreaming,
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and our dreams are large, and we find ourselves hoping
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for their fulfillment but doubting their fulfillment, then I think
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it becomes a question of doing the pages despite our doubts.
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And people will sometimes say to me, Julia, how can
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I get rid of my censor, the inner critic that says,
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you can't do that, you're too little. And I say, well, actually,
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I don't think you can get rid of your inner critic.
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I have an inner critic named Nigel. Oh, okay.
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Did you name it?
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I named Nigel, and I recommend everybody should name their
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inner critic something. But I thought Nigel was a persnickety name,
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so I chose Nigel. And Nigel will tell me things like, Julia,
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you're boring. Or, Julia, you've said this before. Or, Julia,
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why are you even trying? And I have learned to
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say in the morning pages, Nigel, thank you for sharing.
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And I find that if you repeatedly say to your critic,
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thank you for sharing, you begin to diminish the critic.
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And when you start out, it's a big, booming, damning voice.
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And the critic is the voice of doom. But if
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you keep saying, thank you for sharing. you miniaturize your
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critic until it's just a little cartoon character sort of
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like the relative that always ruins family picnics by being
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negative yeah the the critic is habitually negative And we
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learn to stand up to the critic.
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I think that is such a sound and efficient way
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to minimize the intensity of that. Because I feel like
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for many people, that inner critic is a bit loud
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and obnoxious. And I think that when you give it
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a name and you acknowledge it, You know, it's like
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in mindfulness, the noting technique when we are naming the
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feeling or we're naming the experience, we're in a way
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externalizing it from us, the core of who we really are.
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And I think it's really helpful to minimize it in
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that way because it makes it more manageable. It's interesting
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because I was having this conversation with a friend of
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mine who, um, I told her I was having this
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conversation with you and she was so excited. She's also
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done morning pages and she's like, I have so many questions.
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And I was telling her I do too, you know,
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so I'm going to try and be as efficient as
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I can. And this conversation about imposter syndrome and I'll,
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I'll put it in the same category as the inner critic.
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Came up.
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And, and I thought it was really interesting how for her,
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one of the biggest obstacles in this experience isn't necessarily
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the inner critic so much as it is the feeling
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of exhaustion when, you know, she comes home from work and,
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you know, she has to deal with family and her
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partner and she just feels like she's exhausted and she
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doesn't have, she has every, the best intentions to, you know,
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do morning pages. It's like there's this idea that doing
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morning pages or writing or doing any of the techniques
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are too heavy of a lift, if that makes sense.
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So I want to talk a little bit. First of all,
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if you do the morning pages first thing upon awakening,
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you may be grumpy, but you're not exhausted. So you
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do your morning pages first thing. But there's a second tool,
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which I think is very important to combat the sense
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of exhaustion, and that is a tool that I call
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an artist's date. And it's going out once a week
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by yourself doing something festive, something that your inner child
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approves of. something that's just plain fun. And people will say, play?
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I don't see what play has to do with working
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on my creativity. And I will say, well, actually, it
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has everything to do with working on your creativity. Because
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when we work on our creativity, we're drawing on an
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inner well. And if we are working hard on our
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creativity and we are dipping into the well and we
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are taking the time and care to replenish the well,
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then it does become difficult. So I want you to play.
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And you find people coming back saying, Julia? I had
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the most uncanny experience. I think I felt, well, God.
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And I'll say, oh, maybe you did. Maybe you had
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a sense of a benevolent something that was helping you along.
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And the benevolence, something that helps you along, fights exhaustion.
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I got the Artist's Way toolkit here. And I wanted
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to just read this because I think that the artist's
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dates for me are probably one, if not the most valuable.
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And I love what you wrote in here. It says,
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regarding to the.
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Artist's date, the artist's date, is a once a weekly
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solo expedition to do something that enchants or interests you.
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And I love that you use the word enchant because
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I feel like we don't allow the magic of those
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little moments that add to our well, like you're saying,
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you know, because we're so wrapped up in the mundanity
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of life. Sometimes we come home from work, we're exhausted.
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I'm going to do air quotes exhausted because now, now
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I'm thinking, Oh, maybe we're just grumpy.
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You know, it's like we wake up earlier.
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I'm not going to be exhausted.
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I'm just going to be a little bit grumpy, but
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we sort of don't create the space for those little
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moments that ultimately help us feel that surge of, of energy,
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maybe even inspiration that we're looking for. Right.
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Well, I think, uh, that you do feel a surge
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of inspiration when you do an art estate. You do
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feel festive, and your age drops away. We haven't talked
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at all about how people can feel, well, I'm just
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too old to try these tools.
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Oh, let's talk about it.
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I think that what I say is when you use
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the tools, you are timeless, and you begin to have...
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a sense of a benevolent universe that's on your side.
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And you do become enchanted. And I think it's an
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accurate term for the feeling that you get where you
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have a sense of hope, a sense of timelessness, a
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sense of humor.
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There's this idea like, not to take our creativity or
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life too seriously.
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What do you think about that?
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Well, I think the problem is that we do take
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life too seriously. And we beat ourselves up if we're
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not being creative. And when we say, no, I want
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you to just try this tool, then you say, try? Well,
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that doesn't sound too hard. And when you find yourself saying,
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that doesn't sound too hard, then you find yourself saying, well,
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I think I could give it a try. And giving
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it a try, I think what happens with morning pages
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is that they convince you to take risks. So you're
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writing your pages, and you say, what should I do next?
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And your pages say, you will write radiant songs. This
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is what happened to me. And I said, I'm 45
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years old. I can't write radiant songs. If I were
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the least bit musical, I would know it. And the
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pages insisted, you will write radiant songs. And two weeks later,
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I was up in the Rocky Mountains visiting a girlfriend
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while I was teaching. And I said, I keep praying
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for what to do next. And I keep getting told
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I will write radiant songs. And I don't think it's
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very likely. And she said, well, why don't you go
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sit down by the stream and see what happens? And
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she pointed down the hill of the Rocky Mountains to
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a little creek. And I went down and I sat
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by the creek on a big boulder. And I was
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sort of, oh, half-assed meditating. And all of a sudden.
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I heard, My green heart is filled with apples. Your
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dark face is filled with stars.
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I am the one.
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That you've forgotten, you are the one my heart desires.
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So dance when you think of me, sing to remember me,
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sing till your heart can see who we are. Dance
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when you think of me, sing to remember me, sing
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till your heart can see who we are. And I
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found myself saying, that sounds suspiciously like a radiant song.
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And since then, I've written three musicals. And it was
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all because the Morning Pages urged me to try. They said, well, Julia,
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just sit down by the creek and see what happens.
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And this is part of this idea as well of
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our ability to trust that inner guidance. And it's like,
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I don't know that a lot of people may feel
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like they could trust that guidance?
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Well, I think it comes down to taking risks. And
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it's the idea of trying it that opens the door.
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So, Julia, the idea then is, if we do morning
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pages every day, it allows us to access our creativity
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more for other projects?
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Well, it does. You write morning pages, and that becomes
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a habit. And then they make a suggestion of a risk,
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and you try the risk, and then the risk becomes
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a habit. And I think that you become more able
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to try things.
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The trying, I think, is what helped me. And I
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don't know.
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You know, people are listening to this if they're familiar
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with Morning Pages, if they're familiar with your work.
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Or the artist's way.
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I know that it's had a bit of a resurgence
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thanks to artists like Dochi. She's an incredible rapper and
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singer who opened up about doing this practice that helped
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shape her creative process and documenting her journey as she
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was doing it has inspired so many people.
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I think all of us have a secret dream that
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we are creative. And I think that as you pursue creativity,
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you find yourself feeling inspired. I think you have a
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chance of catching yourself happy. And I think that what
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happens to people who aren't artists... who start working the
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artist's way is that they find themselves saying, oh, I
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think I could try that.
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I'm curious, Julia, for you, what keeps you inspired despite
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having this really busy life? And I'm sure you have
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many demands on you. Like what keeps you inspired still today?
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I think the answer is fun. doing something festive. I
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have a favorite artist date, which is going to a
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pet store where they have a big gray and white
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bunny named George. And when I pet George, his silky
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coat gives me a sense of bliss. And I feel inspired.
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Another thing that's fun to do is to go to
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a children's bookstore and Look at the titles. And the
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titles are fun, but they're scary. All about reptiles. All
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about big cats. All about choo-choo trains. And I think
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that a children's book usually has just about the right
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amount of inspiration to move us from stagnation into action.
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Julia, as we're heading to the end of our time together,
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which I feel like we just started, if you were
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to give the people listening right now just one small
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creative action that they can do today or even right
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now for them to get started on this journey to creativity,
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what would you say to them?
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Well, at the risk of sounding like a fanatic, I
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would say, please try writing morning pages. Please get your
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hand on the page, move it across the page, and
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see what it reveals. Another thing we would talk about
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that's called asking for guidance. And this is a tool
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that I used to think sounded too woo-woo. I.
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I ask a question, what about X? And then I
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listen for an answer. And I do get answers. And
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I ask when I teach for people to experiment with
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asking for guidance. Pick an issue that you're having trouble
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with and ask for help with it and see what happens.
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What they find is that they get a very precise
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response guided, calm answer. I will give an example. I
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was married 50 years ago. We unfortunately got divorced. And
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it's 50 years later. And whenever I think about the
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first husband, I think, but I love him. And then
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I beat myself up and say, Julia, isn't that awfully
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codependent of you? 50 years, don't you think you should
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be over it? So finally I went to guidance and said,
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what should I do about still loving X? And the
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guidance came back, just love him. Just love him. Love
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is eternal. Just love him. Getting that simple guidance allowed
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me to drop the rock and stop calling myself codependent
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and start having some self-respect.
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I think that's wonderful advice. I love that. Thank you
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so much for sharing that.
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I am, again, so honored and inspired by you and
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your work and the experience of morning pages in my
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own life have been so monumental and I couldn't be
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more grateful for you.
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So thank you for that.
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Well, you're very welcome. And I have to say this
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interview has been enticing. I have loved your questions and
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I have felt like they were truly guided and that
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we were giving people necessary information.
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Thank you. That's always, I hope that that's always the.
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Experience. So thank you so much for that. For people
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that are listening to this or watching this right now,
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where can they go for more information or to connect
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with you?
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Well, I have a website, which is juliacameronlive.com. And it
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has a lot of art, a lot of poetry. a
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lot of plays, a lot of work that you could
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look at just for fun and for free. And I
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like to say it's actually a wonderful artist state to
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go to Julia Cameron live.com.
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Thank you so much, Julia.
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We'll add those links or that link in the show notes,
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or if you're watching this on YouTube, we will put
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it in the info description section. Julia, thank you so,
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so much for being here with us. We enjoyed every
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second with you. And we hope that people listen to
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this and feel at the very least like they can
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try Morning Pages.
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Thank you.
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Well, I think the problem is that we do take
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life too seriously. And we beat ourselves up if we're
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not being creative. And when we say, now I want
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you to just try this tool, then you say, try? Well,
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that doesn't sound too hard. And when you find yourself saying,
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that doesn't sound too hard, Then you find yourself saying, well,
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I think I could give it a try.
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Hi everyone. Welcome back to Radio Headspace.
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So a few years ago, I had a little bit
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of writer's block and I stumbled upon The Artist's Way
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by Julia Cameron, which is the guidebook designed to help
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anyone reconnect with their creative self.
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And I have to say it works.
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Now, one of the key practices is something called morning pages.
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which is a process where you write out the first
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thing that comes to mind.
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You do this every morning.
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So I invited the icon herself, Julia Cameron, on the
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show today to help us rediscover our inner artist.
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I really hope you enjoy this conversation. Hi, Julia.
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It's so nice to meet you and to have this
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conversation with you.
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I've been looking forward to it for a really long time.
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Well, I've been looking forward to talking to you, too.
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I love your name.
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Thank you.
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I guess we should back up just a little bit
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for the people that aren't familiar with The Artist's Way,
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which is one of, I think, if not the most
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effective piece of literature that helps us in creating great habits.
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So what inspired you to write The Artist's Way, if
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you don't mind sharing?
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I came up with it through practice. I found myself
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living alone at the end of a little dirt road
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in a little adobe house, and I was lonely. And
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I had a table that looked out on Taos Mountain,
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which was a big mountain that changed weather every day.
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And I started getting up, and I would look out
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the window at the mountain, and I would write, Today
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it's cloudy. or today it's clear, or today there's snow
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on the crest. And I found myself writing three pages
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a day, and that they were a form of witness
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for me. I was no longer lonely. I had morning
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pages to talk to. And I think when people are
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blocked creatively, they're very lonely. They feel like, oh, what's
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the use? And when I say, well, the use is
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just try it and coax them into it. And what
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they do is they discover that they're interesting. And previously
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when they're blocked, they were saying, oh, I'm so boring.
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I can't think of anything to say or do. And
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I would say, well, just try writing these three pages
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and see if something doesn't come up for you.
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Yeah.
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Julia, what was the goal of The Artist's Way?
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The goal of the book was to help I thought
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a small group of people who were my friends who
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were blocked. But what I found was that it caught
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on very quickly. It became a pivotal tool for a
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number of people. So I didn't set out thinking, I'm
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going to write a book that will sell 5 million copies,
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which is what it has done. But I thought, I'm
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going to write a book to help people.
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You have absolutely created that. I think the goal has been,
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has been met. Can I ask you, I'm like, can
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I ask you a question? I'm just, I'm just so
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curious if, if you have ever experienced a period in
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your life where other priorities, like having an unfulfillment, having
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like an unfulfilling job or family responsibilities or financial stress.
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Anything that detracted you from doing creative work?
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And if you did, like, how did you deal with that?
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Well, again, I had the toolkit. I had the experience
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of working with the tools and having breakthroughs. So what
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I found was that I was very stubborn. When I
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was faced with a block, I would keep on using
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the tools. And using the tools that way persistently gave
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me a way to break through. And if you're asking
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if I've ever had a block, I've had many blocks,
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and they all yield to the tools.
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I think for me, one of the biggest obstacles I
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encountered when I first you know, started doing my morning pages,
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which was 20 years ago, was this sort of fear
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of rejection, like feeling, and it wasn't necessarily that I
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was wanting to become a writer. It was, it was
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more of what you've talked about in being an artist,
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being a creative. I just felt like, what if I
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bring my full self to the world and I get rejected?
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Well, this is where I think morning pages are so useful.
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because there's no wrong way to do morning pages. You
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just write whatever occurs to you, and you don't reject it.
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You say, this is how I happen to be feeling today.
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And I think that the habit of writing how I
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happen to be feeling today becomes a daily challenge. And
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you find yourself saying, I think I have an idea
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for a novel. Then you say, but who'd read it?
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And then you say, well, actually, I think I'd read it.
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And I think my friends would read it. And I
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think it's a good thing to have a goal. And
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I think it's a good thing to allow yourself the
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freedom to dream. And I think that's what happens. when
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people start working with the tools is that they begin
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to discover that they do have dreams and that they
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have the freedom to pursue those dreams.
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Yeah, that's a really, it's a really great point. And
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it's nice to have the permission to do that, to dream.
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I think so many times we just don't even allow
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ourselves the space because we feel like, who are we
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to dream dreams? about being a novelist or dream about
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being an artist or a musician or a poet or
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whatever it is. I think we don't even allow ourselves
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to have that framework because we're so quickly using the
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fluctuation of thought to stifle it.
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Well, we have a problem in this society, which is
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that We have a desire to not be too big
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for our britches. And so when we first start dreaming,
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and our dreams are large, and we find ourselves hoping
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for their fulfillment but doubting their fulfillment, then I think
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it becomes a question of doing the pages despite our doubts.
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And people will sometimes say to me, Julia, how can
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I get rid of my censor, the inner critic that says,
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you can't do that, you're too little. And I say, well, actually,
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I don't think you can get rid of your inner critic.
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I have an inner critic named Nigel. Oh, okay.
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Did you name it?
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I named Nigel, and I recommend everybody should name their
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inner critic something. But I thought Nigel was a persnickety name,
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so I chose Nigel. And Nigel will tell me things like, Julia,
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you're boring. Or, Julia, you've said this before. Or, Julia,
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why are you even trying? And I have learned to
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say in the morning pages, Nigel, thank you for sharing.
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And I find that if you repeatedly say to your critic,
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thank you for sharing, you begin to diminish the critic.
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And when you start out, it's a big, booming, damning voice.
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And the critic is the voice of doom. But if
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you keep saying, thank you for sharing. you miniaturize your
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critic until it's just a little cartoon character sort of
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like the relative that always ruins family picnics by being
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negative yeah the the critic is habitually negative And we
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learn to stand up to the critic.
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I think that is such a sound and efficient way
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to minimize the intensity of that. Because I feel like
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for many people, that inner critic is a bit loud
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and obnoxious. And I think that when you give it
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a name and you acknowledge it, You know, it's like
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in mindfulness, the noting technique when we are naming the
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feeling or we're naming the experience, we're in a way
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externalizing it from us, the core of who we really are.
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And I think it's really helpful to minimize it in
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that way because it makes it more manageable. It's interesting
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because I was having this conversation with a friend of
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mine who, um, I told her I was having this
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conversation with you and she was so excited. She's also
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done morning pages and she's like, I have so many questions.
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And I was telling her I do too, you know,
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so I'm going to try and be as efficient as
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I can. And this conversation about imposter syndrome and I'll,
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I'll put it in the same category as the inner critic.
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Came up.
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And, and I thought it was really interesting how for her,
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one of the biggest obstacles in this experience isn't necessarily
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the inner critic so much as it is the feeling
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of exhaustion when, you know, she comes home from work and,
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you know, she has to deal with family and her
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partner and she just feels like she's exhausted and she
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doesn't have, she has every, the best intentions to, you know,
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do morning pages. It's like there's this idea that doing
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morning pages or writing or doing any of the techniques
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are too heavy of a lift, if that makes sense.
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So I want to talk a little bit. First of all,
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if you do the morning pages first thing upon awakening,
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you may be grumpy, but you're not exhausted. So you
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do your morning pages first thing. But there's a second tool,
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which I think is very important to combat the sense
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of exhaustion, and that is a tool that I call
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an artist's date. And it's going out once a week
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by yourself doing something festive, something that your inner child
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approves of. something that's just plain fun. And people will say, play?
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I don't see what play has to do with working
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on my creativity. And I will say, well, actually, it
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has everything to do with working on your creativity. Because
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when we work on our creativity, we're drawing on an
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inner well. And if we are working hard on our
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creativity and we are dipping into the well and we
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are taking the time and care to replenish the well,
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then it does become difficult. So I want you to play.
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And you find people coming back saying, Julia? I had
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the most uncanny experience. I think I felt, well, God.
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And I'll say, oh, maybe you did. Maybe you had
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a sense of a benevolent something that was helping you along.
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And the benevolence, something that helps you along, fights exhaustion.
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I got the Artist's Way toolkit here. And I wanted
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to just read this because I think that the artist's
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dates for me are probably one, if not the most valuable.
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And I love what you wrote in here. It says,
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regarding to the.
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Artist's date, the artist's date, is a once a weekly
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solo expedition to do something that enchants or interests you.
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And I love that you use the word enchant because
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I feel like we don't allow the magic of those
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little moments that add to our well, like you're saying,
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you know, because we're so wrapped up in the mundanity
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of life. Sometimes we come home from work, we're exhausted.
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I'm going to do air quotes exhausted because now, now
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I'm thinking, Oh, maybe we're just grumpy.
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You know, it's like we wake up earlier.
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I'm not going to be exhausted.
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I'm just going to be a little bit grumpy, but
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we sort of don't create the space for those little
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moments that ultimately help us feel that surge of, of energy,
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maybe even inspiration that we're looking for. Right.
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Well, I think, uh, that you do feel a surge
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of inspiration when you do an art estate. You do
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feel festive, and your age drops away. We haven't talked
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at all about how people can feel, well, I'm just
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too old to try these tools.
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Oh, let's talk about it.
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I think that what I say is when you use
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the tools, you are timeless, and you begin to have...
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a sense of a benevolent universe that's on your side.
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And you do become enchanted. And I think it's an
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accurate term for the feeling that you get where you
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have a sense of hope, a sense of timelessness, a
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sense of humor.
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There's this idea like, not to take our creativity or
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life too seriously.
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What do you think about that?
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Well, I think the problem is that we do take
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life too seriously. And we beat ourselves up if we're
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not being creative. And when we say, no, I want
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you to just try this tool, then you say, try? Well,
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that doesn't sound too hard. And when you find yourself saying,
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that doesn't sound too hard, then you find yourself saying, well,
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I think I could give it a try. And giving
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it a try, I think what happens with morning pages
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is that they convince you to take risks. So you're
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writing your pages, and you say, what should I do next?
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And your pages say, you will write radiant songs. This
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is what happened to me. And I said, I'm 45
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years old. I can't write radiant songs. If I were
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the least bit musical, I would know it. And the
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pages insisted, you will write radiant songs. And two weeks later,
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I was up in the Rocky Mountains visiting a girlfriend
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while I was teaching. And I said, I keep praying
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for what to do next. And I keep getting told
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I will write radiant songs. And I don't think it's
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very likely. And she said, well, why don't you go
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sit down by the stream and see what happens? And
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she pointed down the hill of the Rocky Mountains to
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a little creek. And I went down and I sat
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by the creek on a big boulder. And I was
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sort of, oh, half-assed meditating. And all of a sudden.
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I heard, My green heart is filled with apples. Your
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dark face is filled with stars.
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I am the one.
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That you've forgotten, you are the one my heart desires.
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So dance when you think of me, sing to remember me,
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sing till your heart can see who we are. Dance
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when you think of me, sing to remember me, sing
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till your heart can see who we are. And I
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found myself saying, that sounds suspiciously like a radiant song.
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And since then, I've written three musicals. And it was
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all because the Morning Pages urged me to try. They said, well, Julia,
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just sit down by the creek and see what happens.
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And this is part of this idea as well of
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our ability to trust that inner guidance. And it's like,
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I don't know that a lot of people may feel
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like they could trust that guidance?
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Well, I think it comes down to taking risks. And
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it's the idea of trying it that opens the door.
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So, Julia, the idea then is, if we do morning
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pages every day, it allows us to access our creativity
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more for other projects?
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Well, it does. You write morning pages, and that becomes
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a habit. And then they make a suggestion of a risk,
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and you try the risk, and then the risk becomes
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a habit. And I think that you become more able
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to try things.
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The trying, I think, is what helped me. And I
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don't know.
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You know, people are listening to this if they're familiar
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with Morning Pages, if they're familiar with your work.
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Or the artist's way.
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I know that it's had a bit of a resurgence
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thanks to artists like Dochi. She's an incredible rapper and
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singer who opened up about doing this practice that helped
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shape her creative process and documenting her journey as she
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was doing it has inspired so many people.
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I think all of us have a secret dream that
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we are creative. And I think that as you pursue creativity,
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you find yourself feeling inspired. I think you have a
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chance of catching yourself happy. And I think that what
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happens to people who aren't artists... who start working the
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artist's way is that they find themselves saying, oh, I
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think I could try that.
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I'm curious, Julia, for you, what keeps you inspired despite
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having this really busy life? And I'm sure you have
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many demands on you. Like what keeps you inspired still today?
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I think the answer is fun. doing something festive. I
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have a favorite artist date, which is going to a
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pet store where they have a big gray and white
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bunny named George. And when I pet George, his silky
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coat gives me a sense of bliss. And I feel inspired.
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Another thing that's fun to do is to go to
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a children's bookstore and Look at the titles. And the
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titles are fun, but they're scary. All about reptiles. All
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about big cats. All about choo-choo trains. And I think
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that a children's book usually has just about the right
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amount of inspiration to move us from stagnation into action.
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Julia, as we're heading to the end of our time together,
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which I feel like we just started, if you were
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to give the people listening right now just one small
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creative action that they can do today or even right
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now for them to get started on this journey to creativity,
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what would you say to them?
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Well, at the risk of sounding like a fanatic, I
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would say, please try writing morning pages. Please get your
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hand on the page, move it across the page, and
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see what it reveals. Another thing we would talk about
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that's called asking for guidance. And this is a tool
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that I used to think sounded too woo-woo. I.
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I ask a question, what about X? And then I
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listen for an answer. And I do get answers. And
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I ask when I teach for people to experiment with
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asking for guidance. Pick an issue that you're having trouble
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with and ask for help with it and see what happens.
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What they find is that they get a very precise
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response guided, calm answer. I will give an example. I
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was married 50 years ago. We unfortunately got divorced. And
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it's 50 years later. And whenever I think about the
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first husband, I think, but I love him. And then
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I beat myself up and say, Julia, isn't that awfully
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codependent of you? 50 years, don't you think you should
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be over it? So finally I went to guidance and said,
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what should I do about still loving X? And the
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guidance came back, just love him. Just love him. Love
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is eternal. Just love him. Getting that simple guidance allowed
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me to drop the rock and stop calling myself codependent
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and start having some self-respect.
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I think that's wonderful advice. I love that. Thank you
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so much for sharing that.
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I am, again, so honored and inspired by you and
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your work and the experience of morning pages in my
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own life have been so monumental and I couldn't be
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more grateful for you.
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So thank you for that.
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Well, you're very welcome. And I have to say this
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interview has been enticing. I have loved your questions and
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I have felt like they were truly guided and that
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we were giving people necessary information.
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Thank you. That's always, I hope that that's always the.
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Experience. So thank you so much for that. For people
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that are listening to this or watching this right now,
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where can they go for more information or to connect
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with you?
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Well, I have a website, which is juliacameronlive.com. And it
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has a lot of art, a lot of poetry. a
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lot of plays, a lot of work that you could
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look at just for fun and for free. And I
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like to say it's actually a wonderful artist state to
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go to Julia Cameron live.com.
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Thank you so much, Julia.
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We'll add those links or that link in the show notes,
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or if you're watching this on YouTube, we will put
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it in the info description section. Julia, thank you so,
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so much for being here with us. We enjoyed every
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second with you. And we hope that people listen to
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this and feel at the very least like they can
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try Morning Pages.
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Thank you.
