Ep. 31 - Turning Point (2017)

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Gabrielle Martin 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,660
Hello and welcome to Push Play,

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a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with

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artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form.

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I'm Gabrielle Martin, Push's Director of Programming,

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and in this special series of Push Play,

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we're revisiting the legacy of Push and talking to creators

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who have helped shape 20 years of innovative, dynamic,

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and audacious festival programming.

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Today's episode features Owen Underhill of Turning Point

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Ensemble and is anchored around the 2017 Push Festival.

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Owen Underhill is a composer, conductor,

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and programmer who has been active in new music in

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Gabrielle Martin 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,400
Vancouver for several decades as the Artistic Director of

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Gabrielle Martin 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,760
Vancouver New Music, 1987 to 2000,

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and in his current role as Artistic Director and Conductor

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of the Turning Point Ensemble.

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From 1981 until his recent retirement,

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he was a faculty member in the School for the Contemporary

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Arts at Simon Fraser University.

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Turning Point Ensemble,

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founded by its musician members in 2002,

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is a collaborative large chamber ensemble committed to the

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performance and production of music of the 20th and 21st

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centuries in flexible and innovative contexts.

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Intersecting with multiple art forms, crossing genres,

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working with diverse communities and partners,

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engaging with ideas of contemporary relevance,

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and inspiring and enlivening local, national,

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and international audiences.

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Recent tours have included Montreal, Zagreb, Belgrade,

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Santander, Taipei, Beijing, and Singapore.

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Here's my conversation with Owen.

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We are here on Victoria Drive, just off Commercial Drive,

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in so -called Vancouver,

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which is on the stolen ancestral and traditional

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territories of Coast Salish peoples, the Musqueam,

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Squamish, and Tsleil -Waututh.

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It's a place that both of us call home.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:01:52,940 --> 00:01:53,720
You're just up the street.

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Owen Underhill 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:55,420
Yes,

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Owen Underhill 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,660
I've been in the commercial drive area for quite a few years.

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Owen Underhill 00:01:58,860 --> 00:01:59,220
Love it here.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,240
and I grew up here as well.

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This, we're just across from Victoria Park,

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where I spent a lot of time as a kid.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:02:06,140 --> 00:02:10,320
So in a feeling very comfortable in the neighborhood and

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happy to be having this conversation here and grateful to

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be on these indigenous lands.

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Turning Point Ensemble has a wonderful, long,

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rich history with the Push Festival.

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We're gonna definitely be talking about the 2017 production

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that Push presented.

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Zappa meets Verez and Oswald,

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the present day composer refuses to die.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,060
But there are also so many other projects that Push

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presented,

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so we're gonna get a chance to talk about some of those.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:02:41,260 --> 00:02:46,080
Yeah, let's actually go right back to the beginning.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,040
Would you just talk to us about how your relationship with

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Gabrielle Martin 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:49,660
Push began?

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Owen Underhill 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:50,400
Well,

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Owen Underhill 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:56,360
I've known Norman for many years and so witnessed the start

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of the push and from the beginning with Turning Point

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Ensemble we really wanted to be more than just a chamber

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ensemble and to also explore interdisciplinary work with

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theater and dance and with film and so we started looking

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at the work that Push was doing and thinking that it would

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Owen Underhill 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:30,760
be fit in very well some of the projects we had in mind to

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Owen Underhill 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,820
propose them through Norman.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:39,000
And you knew Norman very well from the 80s.

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Owen Underhill 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,380
Yeah, from the 80s.

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Owen Underhill 00:03:41,020 --> 00:03:41,200
Yeah,

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Norman came to the School for the Contemporary Arts at

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Simon Fraser University,

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and I just come there also as a faculty member,

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as a composer,

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and we were starting a composition -based music program

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there.

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And...

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Gabrielle Martin 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:00,820
my dad went to.

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Owen Underhill 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:02,940
which your dad went to, yes.

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And my colleagues,

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Owen Underhill 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:12,860
Mark Diamond and Penelope Stella were great in theater.

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Owen Underhill 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:19,540
They were great colleagues to also collaborate with.

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Owen Underhill 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,120
So from when I first started going to,

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or being part of faculty there,

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I started working on projects,

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including plays like Sam Shepard's Suicide and B -flat,

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which I wrote music for.

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And Norman was lead actor in that.

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And so, and he was already doing fantastic work there.

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So I got to know him as kind of a partner in productions

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Owen Underhill 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:54,720
rather than as a teacher,

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Owen Underhill 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,060
because I was teaching primarily in music.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:04:58,540 --> 00:05:03,380
And so the first well actually when was when did you co

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Gabrielle Martin 00:05:03,380 --> 00:05:04,920
-found turning point ensemble at your site?

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Owen Underhill 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,980
We co -founded in 2002 and our first concert was in 2003.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:11,280
OK.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:12,780
And then in 2008,

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Push presented Dual Eclipse Orchestra of Two Worlds.

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And then, you know, in 2012,

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presented Trené Point Ensemble's Colorful World.

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In 2013, Cinema Musica.

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The Zappa meets Verraz and Oswald in 2017.

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Radio Rewrite in 2018 and Flying White,

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which was also a project with One Way Dance in 2020.

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But how did the conversation,

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how did Dual Eclipse end up being part of Push 2008?

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Why was it such a great fit?

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Gabrielle Martin 00:05:46,820 --> 00:05:47,820
How did that come about?

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Owen Underhill 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:55,720
Well, the Dual Eclipse project was with Balinese Ensemble,

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which they had at UBC.

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And we were doing works with dance.

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Jennifer Mascow was choreographing some works for that

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production.

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Owen Underhill 00:06:07,540 --> 00:06:12,700
So it was, first of all, a cross -cultural project.

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And secondly, it involved dance.

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So those were the kind of productions we worked with,

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with Norman,

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tended to be the ones that were more interdisciplinary and

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also included original work.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,960
than Colorful World, how did that, you know,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,760
did Norman just kind of invite the next project that was

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interdisciplinary,

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or did you end up kind of pitching that work?

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Gabrielle Martin 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,540
How did Colorful World end up being part of?

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Owen Underhill 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:53,880
The Colorful World project was more of a concert that

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included some new commissions.

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I know we did a piece of Rodney Sharmn there.

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So we tended to,

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I tended to pitch projects to Norman every couple of years

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that I thought would be of interest to them and also,

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you know, we're a large chamber ensemble, I should say.

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So we're in between a small chamber ensemble and an

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orchestra.

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We usually have at least 15 players.

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So they were, you know, we tend to do quite major works,

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major scale.

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And so those that were a good fit for push were a lot of

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those projects that involved other disciplines.

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Talk to us about what was Zappa, Mitzvahrez, and Oswald,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:07:50,940 --> 00:07:52,960
the present -day composer refuses to die.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:54,500
I mean, first of all, it has an incredible title.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:07:55,380 --> 00:07:57,900
Can you just explain this project a bit?

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Owen Underhill 00:07:59,000 --> 00:07:59,700
Yeah, sure.

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Owen Underhill 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,260
Well, the present -day composer refuses to die, I remember,

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as being written on a Frank Zappa Mothers of Invention

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album.

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It's written there.

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And then I found out that that was a quote from the avant

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-garde composer, Edgard Varese, who was active in,

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originally from France,

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but active from the 1920s in New York and in the US.

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And Frank Zappa, even as a teenager,

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was really interested in contemporary music and he really

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appreciated Edgard Varese,

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who was really an adventurer in sound.

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And so that quote always stuck in my head and so because

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Turning Point Ensemble works towards making connections

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with the past to the present day,

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we often would like to pair maybe a composer or some

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innovative music of the first half of the 20th century with

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something much more recent.

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Owen Underhill 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:21,320
So that was an idea we had and actually started talking

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with Norman about that in 2014.

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Owen Underhill 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,340
So we worked on that one for a while together.

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Owen Underhill 00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:29,700
And is that...

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Gabrielle Martin 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,760
because Push was involved as a co -producer or because you

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were just like developing the concept and keeping Norman in

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the loop.

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Owen Underhill 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,260
Push was,

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well Norman really liked the idea of Res from the start,

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but he was very interested in getting a new work written

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for that show by a Canadian composer,

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and so we developed that one actually as a co -commission

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project.

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Owen Underhill 00:10:01,180 --> 00:10:06,140
So we discussed who to include in that,

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and eventually proposed John Oswald to him from Toronto,

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who worked a lot on his plunder phonics,

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where he sort of plundered the work of Michael Jackson

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even,

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Owen Underhill 00:10:29,820 --> 00:10:33,560
he had to withdraw that because Michael Jackson thought

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about him, and he did Grateful Dead,

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so he was very involved in pop music as well as

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contemporary music, and when I threw that out to Norman,

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he said,

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ah, killer suggestion, and John Oswald, so it was a go,

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Owen Underhill 00:10:56,460 --> 00:11:05,940
so that became a really exciting program for us and for

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Owen Underhill 00:11:05,940 --> 00:11:06,460
Push,

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Owen Underhill 00:11:06,740 --> 00:11:11,980
and we also commissioned some dance for a couple of those

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pieces because we did the sort of large arrangements of

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Zappa that were done by Ensemble Muldern in Munich while

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Zappa was still alive,

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Owen Underhill 00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:28,740
like in the last years before he passed away,

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Owen Underhill 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:34,520
and Edward Locke, the dancer, had actually done some dance,

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Owen Underhill 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,880
which they did on those productions,

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Owen Underhill 00:11:38,340 --> 00:11:43,420
so we decided that we would also bring some dance element

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Owen Underhill 00:11:43,420 --> 00:11:50,160
to it, and so that's what we did also.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,600
Do you remember who were the dancers or who supported

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Gabrielle Martin 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:54,260
choreography?

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Owen Underhill 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:59,760
Yeah, it was Rob at my colleague at SFU.

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Owen Underhill 00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:02,380
Oh yeah, okay, Rob Kitsos?

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Owen Underhill 00:12:02,540 --> 00:12:03,660
Rob Kitsos, yes.

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Owen Underhill 00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:06,640
And so he did, you know,

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Owen Underhill 00:12:06,740 --> 00:12:08,460
it was sort of set up as a concert,

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Owen Underhill 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,680
but he had the dancers in the front,

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which is the way Edward Locke had done it,

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and they were actually right behind me and going very

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Owen Underhill 00:12:16,340 --> 00:12:17,960
quickly, and right,

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Owen Underhill 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:22,220
I could feel the wind of them when they were performing.

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Owen Underhill 00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:26,840
So we did that as well, and that was a very popular show.

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Owen Underhill 00:12:27,420 --> 00:12:32,280
It brought out all the Zappa fanatics,

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which there are many.

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Owen Underhill 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:34,580
Okay.

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Owen Underhill 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,380
So we did three shows, and I don't know what it was.

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Owen Underhill 00:12:39,540 --> 00:12:40,400
What venue was this?

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Owen Underhill 00:12:40,540 --> 00:12:40,640
You're right.

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Owen Underhill 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,660
It was in the Wong Theatre at SFU Woodward,

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Owen Underhill 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,100
so there were about 350 people at each of those shows,

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Owen Underhill 00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:51,580
but it was a good show for Bush,

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Owen Underhill 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,520
and it was certainly a good show for us.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,980
Great, and did you, um, did Question, Turning Point,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:12:57,100 --> 00:12:57,680
Ensemble, Commission,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:12:57,940 --> 00:13:00,720
other projects of all the ones that were presented in the

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:01,220
push years?

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:02,580
No.

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Owen Underhill 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,720
We talked about it, but that was, I think,

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Owen Underhill 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:10,180
the one time that Norman really wanted to get involved with

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Owen Underhill 00:13:10,180 --> 00:13:13,360
a sort of commission that we would jointly do.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:16,320
Great.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,980
And then, yeah, as mentioned there, after that project,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,320
Radio Rewrite was presented Flying White with One Way

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Dance.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,400
How would you reflect on the evolution of the company,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,760
like let's say from Dual Eclipse in 2008 right up to Flying

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:37,700
White in 2020?

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:38,060 --> 00:13:38,680
And then now,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:44,560
has there been an evolution in terms of process, practice,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,420
points of interest for projects?

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Owen Underhill 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,260
Yes, I mean,

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Owen Underhill 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:56,940
we got more and more adventurous over the years in doing

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Owen Underhill 00:13:56,940 --> 00:14:02,740
ambitious interdisciplinary projects, for one thing,

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Owen Underhill 00:14:03,020 --> 00:14:08,280
and so Push certainly helped us with that because we always

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Owen Underhill 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:15,420
knew that if we were part of the Push Festival that it was

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Owen Underhill 00:14:15,420 --> 00:14:21,800
a great way to bring in theater, dance, film, you know,

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Owen Underhill 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,600
a much more diverse audience, I guess.

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Owen Underhill 00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:29,900
And another thing we did,

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Owen Underhill 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,660
which was in the Flying White Project,

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Owen Underhill 00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:38,260
was we worked with Chinese traditional instruments,

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Owen Underhill 00:14:38,540 --> 00:14:42,820
and so some of the performers that are here in Vancouver.

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Owen Underhill 00:14:42,820 --> 00:14:49,140
So we also became a little more cross -cultural in the

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Owen Underhill 00:14:49,140 --> 00:14:51,240
projects that we have done, you know,

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Owen Underhill 00:14:51,260 --> 00:14:58,220
when we saw the opportunity and the partners approached us

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Owen Underhill 00:14:58,220 --> 00:14:58,760
as well.

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Owen Underhill 00:14:59,260 --> 00:15:03,160
So those were some of the things that we were able to

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Owen Underhill 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,500
explore more fully with the support of Push.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,740
And your role in the projects, is it,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,180
are you sometimes composer, sometimes more producer?

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Gabrielle Martin 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,000
Does your role shift across these projects?

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Owen Underhill 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,700
Well, I'm the conductor of the ensemble,

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Owen Underhill 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,640
so I am a member of the ensemble,

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Owen Underhill 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,300
but I did compose Flying White.

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Speaker 3 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,780
project because I'm a personal and pristine body for

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Speaker 3 00:15:32,780 --> 00:15:35,380
Chinese traditional instruments and

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Owen Underhill 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:36,980
And so I was,

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Owen Underhill 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,760
and also Dorothy Chang was involved with that as a

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Owen Underhill 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:42,100
composer.

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Owen Underhill 00:15:42,940 --> 00:15:46,600
So sometimes I'm involved as a creator as well,

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Owen Underhill 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:54,080
but the projects that we've done like that are tend to be

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Owen Underhill 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,180
so original that, you know,

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Owen Underhill 00:15:57,260 --> 00:16:00,620
you feel a little bit like an artistic director of the

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Owen Underhill 00:16:00,620 --> 00:16:01,660
project as a whole.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:02,940
Yeah, yeah.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:16:03,860 --> 00:16:09,060
And so you kind of mentioned that one of the benefits of

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Gabrielle Martin 00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:11,760
partnering with Push was to bring in different audiences

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Gabrielle Martin 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,880
and that it was kind of a good home for those more

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Gabrielle Martin 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,840
interdisciplinary projects.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,380
Yeah, how do you see, I'm curious, you know,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,020
having had a relationship with the festival since the early

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Gabrielle Martin 00:16:26,020 --> 00:16:26,240
days,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:16:26,340 --> 00:16:29,100
how you see the cultural context of the festival and its

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Gabrielle Martin 00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:30,100
significance in Vancouver.

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Owen Underhill 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:31,280
Yeah,

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Owen Underhill 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:37,460
well I mean push brought in from around the world like

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Owen Underhill 00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:43,220
leading innovative cutting -edge projects that otherwise

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Owen Underhill 00:16:43,220 --> 00:16:45,800
would never have come to Vancouver.

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Owen Underhill 00:16:46,580 --> 00:16:52,060
But they also had a role with local artists and helped,

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Owen Underhill 00:16:52,060 --> 00:16:52,640
you know,

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Owen Underhill 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:58,340
integrate them with other artists from around the world.

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Owen Underhill 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,440
So it was,

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Owen Underhill 00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:07,900
push has definitely had a fantastic impact over the

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Speaker 3 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,859
you know, past 20 years or so.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,760
What are you what are you excited about now with a turning

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Gabrielle Martin 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:15,319
point ensemble?

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Owen Underhill 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,119
Working next year,

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Owen Underhill 00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:21,660
we're doing a production of Kaya Sarajajo's music.

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Owen Underhill 00:17:22,020 --> 00:17:27,760
She just passed away of a Finnish composer and her music is

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Owen Underhill 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,960
so colorful and beautiful and hardly ever done in Vancouver

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Owen Underhill 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:40,200
because it's for very large ensembles and so that's the

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Owen Underhill 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:46,340
kind of thing we'd like to present up close to Vancouver

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Owen Underhill 00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:51,920
audiences and we're always working on recording projects so

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Owen Underhill 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,160
we just did a recording project of Nova Han who's a local

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Owen Underhill 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,580
composer of some large work she wrote for us and so that's

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Owen Underhill 00:18:00,580 --> 00:18:06,440
just been released and we're trying to dream up some more

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Owen Underhill 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:11,160
dance projects but usually those take two or three years to

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Gabrielle Martin 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:13,440
Okay.

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Owen Underhill 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:14,920
put in the hopper.

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Owen Underhill 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:15,320
Yeah.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,720
It sounds like you're very busy, which is exciting,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,380
working on all sorts of collaborations and new projects.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:28,020
Of all the projects that were train point ensemble projects

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Gabrielle Martin 00:18:28,020 --> 00:18:28,860
that were presented at Push,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,440
what would you say is like your most dear project,

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Gabrielle Martin 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,540
the one that you have the fondest memories of?

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Owen Underhill 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,520
Well, I have fond memories of several of them.

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Owen Underhill 00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:48,060
Definitely the Zappa, Varese, and John Oswald projects,

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Owen Underhill 00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:48,720
one of them.

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Owen Underhill 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,660
The Radio Rewrite was some ways a similar project because

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Owen Underhill 00:18:52,660 --> 00:18:56,960
it involved the music of Johnny Greenwood from Radiohead,

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Owen Underhill 00:18:56,980 --> 00:19:03,460
who most people know that he's written for film and so on.

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Owen Underhill 00:19:03,460 --> 00:19:09,120
But he also is interested in unusual instruments like the

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Owen Underhill 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,420
And Martineau.

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Owen Underhill 00:19:10,580 --> 00:19:16,320
It's a bit like the Theremin and the music of Olivier

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Owen Underhill 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:17,540
Messiaen.

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Owen Underhill 00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:21,020
The similar way that Zappa was interested in Varese,

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Owen Underhill 00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:26,900
so that Radio Rewrite project included Johnny Greenwood's

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Owen Underhill 00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:30,780
music and so we were able to have a bit of a connection

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Owen Underhill 00:19:31,170 --> 00:19:37,900
with him through his publisher and also we had on that

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Owen Underhill 00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:46,200
program a couple of newer works involving And Martineau and

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Owen Underhill 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,020
a big piece by Steve Reich.

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Owen Underhill 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,400
Which is called Radio Rewrite,

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Owen Underhill 00:19:52,660 --> 00:19:56,300
which is actually based on a couple of Radio Ants songs.

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Owen Underhill 00:19:57,500 --> 00:20:04,180
And I guess the sort of genre busting, if you could say,

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Owen Underhill 00:20:04,820 --> 00:20:06,620
projects like that,

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Owen Underhill 00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:14,020
where it seemed a really natural ones to do with Push.

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Owen Underhill 00:20:14,020 --> 00:20:22,320
And those generally did very well also with audience and

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Owen Underhill 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:23,840
interest, local interest.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,260
Thanks so much, Ellen.

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Gabrielle Martin 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:25,940
Oh, you're welcome.

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Ben Charland 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,100
That was a special episode of Push Play in honor of our

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Ben Charland 00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:35,860
20th Push International Performing Arts Festival,

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Ben Charland 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,080
which will run January 23rd to February 9th,

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Ben Charland 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:41,540
2025 in Vancouver, British Columbia.

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Ben Charland 00:20:42,420 --> 00:20:45,840
To stay up to date on Push 20 and the 2025 Festival,

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Ben Charland 00:20:46,420 --> 00:20:50,340
visit pushfestival .ca and follow us on social media at

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Ben Charland 00:20:50,340 --> 00:20:50,960
Push Festival.

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Ben Charland 00:20:51,740 --> 00:20:53,200
And if you've enjoyed this episode,

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Ben Charland 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,820
please spread the word and take a moment to leave a review.

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Ben Charland 00:20:57,020 --> 00:20:59,380
Push Play is produced by myself, Trisha Knowles,

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Ben Charland 00:20:59,380 --> 00:21:00,340
and Ben Charlin.

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Ben Charland 00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:03,660
A new episode of our 20th Festival series with Gabriel

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Ben Charland 00:21:03,660 --> 00:21:05,640
Martin will be released every Tuesday,

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Ben Charland 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:07,340
wherever you get your podcasts.