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Welcome to Puzzles by Alpha Wire, the podcast where science and education meet cutting-edge technology and artificial intelligence.
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My name is Aldo the Pop, and each week I sit down with innovators, thinkers, and doers who are working to change our world for the better.
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Together we explore their journeys, uncover the lessons they learned, and take anti drives them on their path to success.
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For this episode of Pulse, we're diving into the story of a true trailblazer.
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Rosalia Arteaga Serrano is a politician, lawyer, author, and educator who quite literally changed history by becoming the first woman to serve as both vice president and president of the Republic of Ecuador.
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In 1997, during a moment of political turmoil, Rosalia stepped in as Ecuador's president for a brief but powerful two days.
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Proof that sometimes history is made in moments, not in years.
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Before and after that, she held some of the country's most important roles, including vice president and minister of education, where her passion for learning and culture really took shape.
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But her impact doesn't stop at national borders.
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In 2021, she even put her name forward to become the first female Secretary General of the United Nations, reinforcing her commitment to global leadership, human rights, equality, and democracy.
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Rosalia, to me, is an absolute force of nature, still very much shaping the future, leading education and sustainability initiatives in Latin America, serving on international boards and writing powerful books, including Geronimo, a deeply personal tribute to her late son.
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From politics to poetry, her journey is one of courage, resilience, and purpose.
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And that's exactly why we're talking about her and with her today.
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Hope you will enjoy this interview with Rosalia Arteaga Serrano.
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Yes, and another episode of Pulse by Alpha Wire, and I think this one is a very, very special conversation because it is with a person I admire greatly, a person that I think I am very proud to call the friend, but also someone that I think on every level has done and achieved amazing things.
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Rosalia Arteaga, a very warm welcome to you.
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So happy you could make it.
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Thank you, Aldo.
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I am happy also to share this space and to to exchange some ideas.
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Thank you very much for the invitation.
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You're very welcome.
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And I'm not lying, Rosalia.
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I think you are a very important person in my journey at least.
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And I I think it's on many levels.
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I think first and foremost, when I started my education enterprise, you were one of the first people I spoke to in my journey in understanding the state of global education better.
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And you have such a great understanding, such an in-depth understanding of that, and you've had decades in your career, you know, invested in education, which is I think makes you very, very fascinating.
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And then later on, I started with podcasting.
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And for the other podcasts that I'm running, Messi and Masterful, you were the very first interviewee.
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And so my heart skipped a beat when you said yes to also come on Pulse to talk a little bit about science and education and technology and kind of the things you see and what you think about when we address those things.
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Thank you.
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Well, I say that I'm very happy to hear and to know that you are very successful in your entrepreneurs, especially in educational fields.
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As we talked uh some time ago, I am passionate about education.
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I I started very early in my 17s to be a teacher.
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And I think after that that I received a proposal and very interesting one, I decided to get linked to education all my life.
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After being in politics and that, I created an organization, an NGO, called it FIDAL, Foundation for Integration and Development in Latin America.
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And since the beginning, we are linked with education and science also.
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We start to create first some events, some seminars about science and communication, because we need to communicate science in an appropriate way.
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That it's what you are doing, because many times people don't know what means the links between science and life and human behaviors, even now when we are in the middle of this challenging artificial intelligence intrusion in our lives, in every step of our lives.
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But uh like 30 years ago, almost when we created the Firal Foundation, people doesn't talk about that.
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Then we were very, since the very early creation of our organization, talking about science, technology, innovation, and also education and communication.
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And uh nowadays we are in Firal almost 27 years of going forward, working in some process uh very interesting with the kind of preparation and training the teachers to be part of these very important um matters.
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Then we have some projects in Firal, like a Steam Academy that uh works with science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, but also with ethics, because we think that ethics has to be in the core of everything, because science without ethics can destroy the world, as we can see nowadays when the when the worlds are going around and uh the drones are having the potential to destroy everything, then it's very important to apply ethics.
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And we talk about that with the teachers, because we especially are talking with teachers and training teachers, but of course, we are looking through the behaviors of the teachers, uh how they work with the students.
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And we organize next week we will have a fair of science with the students in a very rural area, very distant from Quito, and uh with teachers that usually doesn't have that kind of training and capabilities, but we are trying to manage it.
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And of course, we train teachers all around the country on these matters of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics.
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And uh of course, also um we have the not uh the help of the Ministry of Education, but we are allowed to do it inside these schools especially.
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And uh well, I am also linked to a European university, UNIR University, that is the university, international university of La Rioja, that is a Spanish one, located in in the inner Spain, but at the same time it's a very global because there are students in more than 190 countries, and all is uh online and with a lot of uh of develop it.
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And we are also creating a museum and an eco-museum and library that has a lot to do with science.
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Well, these are the principal matters that now I have in hand.
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Yeah.
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And uh dear listener, uh Rosalia gives a great breakdown of all the initiatives she is involved with, and we'll be sure to include the links to all these initiatives in our show notes so so people can find out about it.
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You quickly hinted to your career in politics, you're the former vice president as well as president of uh Ecuador, and you were even before that Minister of Education.
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Yes, education, culture and sports.
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Yes.
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Education, cultural, and sports.
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So you have an elaborate and very extensive political career as well.
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You're also an author, you've written beautiful books, so you're really what I would call an uomo universalis.
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You have so many things that come together in all the things that you do.
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You're always up at the crack of dawn.
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So my question was going to be in your entire career, like for people listening and say, Well, I would love to have a career like Rosalia, is there one thing that you would kind of advise them?
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What is the one thing that thrives you?
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You know, if you can even summarize it in one thing, but is there kind of one takeaway that you could pass?
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It's not easy, Aldo, but I have to say uh that you must be persistent.
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Persistent on what you want, what you believe, uh, what's your passion?
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Of course, I have to say you have to be prepared for it, and and you can you can add some other things, but persistence is very important.
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Persistence is very important.
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And then for the many teachers that you've trained, because you were modest about Fidel, but it is one of the biggest teacher organizations in Latin America, right?
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It is it is a massive undertaking to train all these teachers, to work with all these teachers.
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We had the great pleasure of working with you a few years back during lockdown, in collaboration with the ministry as well, whereby we trained loads of teachers to continue the process of teaching and learning, also when they're at home, uh, because that was very difficult uh at that time on understanding how to be a digital teacher.
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But if we turn the tables, what have you learned from the teachers that you've trained?
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Is there anything that the teachers have taught you rather than the other way around?
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First, uh, I have to say that we remind with uh uh with a lot of gratitude the help that you you give to us uh to the Ministry of Education during the pandemic uh situation with the lockdown of the teachers and you and your platform and and your your collaborators pay a lot of uh attention to it and uh give us the possibility to train teachers.
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And it was really appreciated by the Ministry of Education and for us.
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Well, about teachers, I learned every day from them.
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We had a contest for teachers since the last 17 years, not only teachers from Ecuador, from all over Iberoamerica, then we have teachers from Spain, from Chile, from Argentina, from Brazil, etc., all around, from Mexico to the south.
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Every time that we read or observe what the teachers are doing, it is fantastic.
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Uh, because even with small tools, with almost nothing, uh, sometimes in the rural areas, with no possibilities of having materials, laboratories, or anything, even not non-connection, non-connectivity, they are doing a very good job.
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And we had very good examples.
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Uh, for example, uh, like two or three years ago, we had a teacher that was the head of the blind organization, uh school for for kids, and she developed some tools and that she won the prize of uh Fidal, but also we asked her to be part of the Parquet Convocatory for the Global Teacher Award, and she was recognized as one of the 50 best teachers of the world.
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Then it demonstrates that nothing is impossible for a teacher.
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Nothing is impossible.
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And nowadays we have fantastic teachers, and I learned from them to be humble, to be people that uh work every day respecting the others, the students, and trying to give them the tools that they need for develop uh their careers, their their lives, then every day.
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And also, since the last uh two, three years, we have a group of teachers that are organized, the winners of the awards and the finalists of the of the contests, they organize uh uh they have an organization called Teachers of Excellence, Professores de Excellencia in Spanish.
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And it's very, very interesting look and and in certain way to participate, but it's their organization, not our organization.
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And to know how they move the others, how they organize events, they public some books of experiences of the teachers, and they are very proactive with the ministry and with others.
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And it's quite interesting because especially in Latin America, the groups of teachers that are organized, they usually protest.
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They go to the streets and protest.
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But this group says we are not protesting, we are proposing, no?
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And that's uh such a difference between them.
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Then every day I learn from them.
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That's wonderful.
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And there's so much in there.
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As you said, you need to be resilient.
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Those teachers sound like they're very resilient, right?
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Because the circumstances are not in their favor, they don't have a lot of economic resources.
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I can imagine they are in in very remote areas in some cases, so it's difficult to get connected with other people, and still they have the responsibility to raise their students, right?
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So how would you say when we we speak about a combination of technology and education, do you think that has improved the situation for teachers in Ecuador?
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Yes, yes.
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Uh after pandemia, because pandemia was a big uh issue, and after that uh people, especially the authorities, understood that it's necessary to have connectivity to give the teachers some tools, or uh private companies also are helping.
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For example, we always uh give um the teachers some tools, some computers, some laptops and things like that to help them to have the materials for the for their work.
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Um but uh it's it's also um uh interesting that they are like uh with hunger of knowledge.
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They are resilient, of course.
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And na nowadays in Ecuador we have a problem with uh violence in Ecuador that we didn't have in in the past, but now some uh delinquency groups are here in Ecuador, uh, cartels, uh, narco traffic uh problems, and the teachers are the first that are feeling that with students because recruiting is a really big situation in Ecuador nowadays, and they have to confront that and to give the the kids and the teenagers emotional support.
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And it many times has to be done by using tools like connectivity, like platforms and that, then it's it's quite important, and I think most uh every day the importance of technology is really relevant in Ecuadorian and Latin American education.
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Mostly now when teachers they need to know how to manage the tools and how to respond to the requirements of the students because you know, like here, like in everywhere in the world, kids are very fascinated and and uh teenagers also very fascinated with technology.
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Then it's important for the teachers to know the tools and to know if the homework that they send to the students, it's with the help of Chat GBT or other tools, it's so important.
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And they they need to know to confront these situations.
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On the other hand, like in other countries, it is a big question mark about when it's time for the students to get in touch with technology, when it's the time.
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I know for sure that in many countries that like in the northern countries, but also in Australia, where I have my grandkids, they are not allowed in schools to have cell phones, for example, and not allowed to have access to uh social networks.
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And I think it's wise because we need to protect them from certain risks.
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And in other hands, they need to be more social uh presentially with the classmates, with friends, not only with the mediation of a tool like this, what we are doing now, because we are in different parts of the world.
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But if they are in the same classroom and they are all the time with the mobiles and with other tools, they are not developing the social schedules that are very important.
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Then on one hand, it's necessary to have and to learn about the variety of tools that we have nowadays, but in it's also necessary to provide them with emotional support, with emotional intelligence, with the support of parents, teachers, and the classmates, the friends also in a presential way.
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You speak about working directly with the teachers, but you also have a forum of education ministers.
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So you're also looking at the grassroots level as well as the top-down level.
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Is that correct?
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And which of the findings that you've just discussed?
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What have you discussed in the forum and how concerned are education ministers?
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Yeah, we started uh last year with this initiative that was uh our initiative in Firal, and uh we convocate the former ministers of education because it's a pity that we are not taking the advantage of the knowledge and experience that people that have been in the position can provide to the new ones.
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For example, these days uh it's uh it has been a change, and we have a new Minister of Education.
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And it's we always invite the current minister to be part of the meetings that we have.
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Sometimes online meetings, sometimes presential meetings.
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In December we are going to have uh the last uh presential meeting, and probably next year we are going to continue with online meetings that facilitates because ministers, uh former ministers and are not all of them in in the capital in Quito.
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And we talk about the uh different situations.
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The last uh meetings were about school and violence, talking about this situation that we have and it's very scary, especially for teachers.
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And the good things are that we are like a think tank of former ministers of education, but we always invite experts.
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For example, if we are talking about migrations and education, because we have a lot of Venezuelans, like half a million Venezuelans because of the diaspora of Venezuela, and a lot of Colombians also.
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And um the issue is that um we talk about these uh situations inside the forum of former ministers, but we invite experts.
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And we invite teachers to give their testimony about what's happening in the classroom because finally the things are defined at the classroom.
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You know uh very well that because you are all the time working with educators.
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You can have an excellent minister, you can have very interesting tools, you you can have lines, uh, models and that.
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But finally, the situation is defined with the teacher and the students.
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The teacher is the authority at the classroom.
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Then it's so important, even in these times when the knowledge doesn't come only from teachers.
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In the past it was like that.
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Teachers were the authority, they know, and the students learn.
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Nowadays it's not real because many times the students, especially in areas of technology, know more than the teachers.
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Maybe the teacher has to learn from the students, but the guidance, the experience had to be provided by the teacher.
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And then that's uh that's the way that we are working on this forum with teachers, real teachers in the classroom, and also experts that provide us some feelings, some studies about what we are uh working on.
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And it has been an interesting uh experience.
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Uh it's uh lasting only for a little bit more than a year, uh, and it has been quite interesting, and the Minister of Education is uh interested in sharing and uh shared experiences with us.
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It's interesting how those things are all connected, right?
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Because violence is, of course, a lot more than education.
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But as you say, like the teacher is the first one who's affected by such a wave of violence into the school.
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So even though there's an educational impact, it affects every layer of society, really, right?
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So it is definitely a topic that needs to be addressed from all angles, um uh so to say.
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So, you know, this is a topic that I feel so sorry that Ecuador is affected by this, and yeah, I hope you will find a way out.
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You being so international, um traveling a lot, being the president in Latin America for you near this this this international university, do you consult sources from elsewhere as well for specific problems you're dealing with?
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So international involvement and are there international organizations you rely on or or or talk to about uh these topics?
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Well, yes, uh of course uh I am part of some initiatives like Waterkeeper Alliance, that of course has to be with with water preservation, but also has to be with education, because most of us we have to to talk with the community and to talk with the schools because they must be involved in the initiatives.
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Everything has to be with education, as you know.
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Then if if I go to make a speech in some places, uh well, I I must be in in contact with the different persons in the different places.
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Nowadays I am part also of an initiative called Enrich in Luck, that is an initiative to link uh people and uh companies and universities from Europe with uh similars in Latin America.
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And it's quite interesting.
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We are a group of ambassadors that we have meetings uh all the time and try to get the best to replicate and uh to do things in common.
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Uh that's one of the goals.
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And um I think it's it's working.
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It's working.
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It takes time, but it's working.
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In terms of violence, the problem is not only from Ecuador.
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Ecuador probably is the one of the last countries that arrived to this bad situation, but in Latin America you you know more what's happening in Colombia and what's happening in Mexico or in Brazil or Venezuela or Nicaragua and that.
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Then the problem is a continental problem.
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I think that we must uh work together to have the good results that we need for the especially the new generations, um, because they are most affected than the elders, and we must uh work very hard to give them best conditions of security, best conditions of education, health and others.
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I think the pandemic uh situation that all the world has uh put in relevance some issues like health and education has to be at the top level when the the decision makers have to act.
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Then education is at the top level, and of course nowadays we need to be part of this scientific environment, not to be let behind, because if not, we are going to be always behind and continue to be non-developed countries.
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Then that's one of the reasons that we create the STEM Academy, the ESTEM Academy, and we are working hard to create the conditions for the kids, especially women's in our case, to follow scientific careers because we have a lack of people working in science in general in Latin America.
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They are some exceptions, uh, but when you see what happens with the most of the countries of Latin America, we are always consumers of what uh the North, Europe, uh United States and nowadays China and other countries from Asia are creating.
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Then we need to create our uh our owns based in what's uh going on in the world, of course.
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Then uh for that it's so important to create the conditions to have more kids interested in science, more women interested in science, and not wanting to be always lawyers, but going on to physics and chemistry and biology, and also in in terms of engineering in the all the uh biggest couple of engineers that we have.
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Yeah.
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It's uh an interesting fact uh you state there that we need more science, not less.
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And in in some countries, the political climate is not necessarily encouraging towards science.
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At the United States, there's been loads of uh funding cuts, loads of uh I think renowned institutions that they unfortunately had to close down loads of departments, loads of programs, because uh loads of people don't see the need for it.
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And and I hope that this that it is a wave, so that it'll and by that I mean I that it'll come and go.
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But I do uh completely agree with you that there is a need for being there and contributing in a constructive way, and science could be a very good vehicle for that, as could be education, right?
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So so it's it's almost of giving people the purpose that they need, which I think science and education can provide with that, through that.
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Yes, I totally agree.
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:22.079
I totally agree, and and I even think that the only way that we are going to go through these big challenges that humanity has, like uh climate change, for example, is through science.
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:23.200
Through science.
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:32.160
Because for sure, science is going to be the tool that provides us with the solutions for a lot of things that are happening.
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:35.680
I am a strongly believer in what science can do.
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:38.000
Science and ethics, of course.
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.799
Um, and also education.
00:27:41.039 --> 00:28:02.559
Education is a great issue, not only for personal behaviors on how you can go forward and have a good uh economic situation and that, but also for the society, because more educated people can have better societies, and that's a big goal that we have, a big challenge that we have here in Ecuador.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:05.119
To be fair, I think the challenge is global.
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:15.759
There's an erosion of how people interpret scientific facts, and I think social media and and kind of how digital we are plays a role in that.
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.759
You cannot summarize science in 130 characters, right?
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:27.039
People want it fast, people need sound bites, otherwise it doesn't exist, which is averse to how science can grow.
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:33.440
Science is profound, it's in-depth, you need to dive in, you need to take your time to understand it, right?
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:36.720
So I think those two are very contrary.
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.000
And the other side effect that I see there is our focus.
00:28:40.160 --> 00:29:06.079
So the focus of the next generation, the mere fact or the mere act of concentration has gotten a lot more difficult than, for instance, when I was going to school and growing up and whatever, I didn't have such a device in the school, or or I didn't get any kind of homework there, or I wasn't drawn to screens as much as the generation of my daughter, or even the generation after me, Generation Z is.
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:08.799
So there's loads of things there to take into consideration.
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:15.759
Now, naturally, it's not only doom and gloom, there's of course also upsides because technology has also brought us a lot, right?
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:23.440
Going back to the teachers you spoke about earlier, they're hopefully able to move more freely because of technology.
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:25.440
But I would say it is a trade-off.
00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:45.440
And I think we we all need to be aware and focus on how we make this the best version of events and you know not go in either you know the either side of either losing our focus or losing science or our capacity to grow further and and our willingness as well.
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:55.519
I want to talk to you about the Echo Museum and the library because you've been working very hard on that.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:30:00.480
Um it's already, I mean, I it it sounds like a beautiful, beautiful project.
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:05.119
Can you tell me how you got involved and where where the project is momentarily?
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:12.880
Well, concerning what you say before, when you say we didn't have the tool, we have the tools that I have before behind me, the books.
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:13.119
Yeah.
00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:18.480
They were and they continue to be my best tools for me, yeah, for my generation.
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:27.680
But uh, of course, I know that people nowadays are reading in tablets and that, but it's important to preserve the reading issue.
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:47.680
Well, about the Eco Museum, it starts a long time ago when we tried to get a house from the municipality, a building from the municipality, the historical center of Quito, that is one of the best historical centers declared by UNESCO like uh the universal patrimonium for the whole humanity.
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:57.279
And in that historical center, we get a building from the municipality, and like almost three years ago we started to refurbish it.
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:09.519
It means uh a lot of investment, monetary investment, but a lot of creativity too, because we have to preserve the house like it was in the past, but adapting it to the modernity.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:12.720
And um we have a beautiful house.
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:28.640
I will send to you some videos about it, and um the idea is that that beautiful house uh contains not only collections of art or shells or or things like that, but also has a lot of technology.
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:36.960
We are creating with a group of young people from Ecuador uh a special artificial intelligence for the building.
00:31:37.200 --> 00:32:33.359
And uh we are going to have um different tools like a virtual aquarium, because uh many kids, especially from the poor areas, they probably cannot go to CDC and they can feel the sea and the animals of the sea, or maybe the jungle in other cases, or the mangroves, or space, also in this museum, and we are going to have um virtual sports and also mathematics, uh, ancestral mathematics from the uh eras of Incas and before, and Chinese and Egyptian, and also we are really engaged in how it's going to be with all these uh technological tools and to be uh a big uh attraction for the young people especially to be part of this initiative.
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:34.240
That's our dream.
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:47.039
And I hope next year we are going to inaugurate it and to have uh working all these tools that we are imagining and creating for this uh very different eco-museum and library.
00:32:47.279 --> 00:33:11.440
Then the books are going to be there, as of course, the digital books also, and we are going to have paintings, but also virtual art, and we are going to have the this aquarium, virtual aquarium, and other very creative initiatives that compose uh a great idea to be part of this uh city and of course of of my country.
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:13.279
Nice, it sounds amazing.
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.720
And you're involved, I think, from the very beginning, right?
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:19.839
So Yes, I I am the creator of the idea.
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:20.240
Yes.
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.640
You're the creator of the idea, there you go.
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:24.559
Congrats on getting it that far.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:25.200
Thank you.
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:27.920
So do you anticipate an opening in the near future?
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:29.920
Yes, yes, uh next year.
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:34.000
I I don't have the exact date because it depends on the resources.
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:49.440
We are doing it uh with donations because foundation the foundation Fidel doesn't have the resources for that, and we are having some uh some funding from private companies in Ecuador, but we need more, of course, always need more.
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:56.480
Then for the refurbishing is one that is almost 80%, maybe a little bit more than 80% refurbishing.
00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:02.640
But nowadays for the implementation of the museum, we need uh more uh uh money for that.
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:08.480
Then we depend a lot on what we can get uh for opening the museum next year.
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:14.400
Fingers crossed, and we'll be sure to do our our little bit in spreading the message on the museum.
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:27.039
And if people want to get involved, then go to our show notes and and read up uh more about it because it's such a wonderful initiative and such great educational work you're doing uh as well in in terms of a museum.
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:27.840
Thank you.
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:28.960
Thank you very much.
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:31.360
I will send you information about it.
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:32.960
Do so, do so.
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:58.320
Your journey has been incredible because we haven't even addressed the fact that you're also a poet and and you write books, and so there's so much in your career, and and you've already, in the beginning of the interview, you said it's all about resilience, uh, which I can imagine you you are you're a very strong person, uh very uh resilient, but at the same time you're also very capable of listening and reaching out to others, right?
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:04.320
You're very open, very approachable, you talk to loads of people all over the world.
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:08.719
How important do you think communication has been in your journey?
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:10.480
Very important, yeah.
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:18.159
And I I think that communication is a very important tool tool of education, sometimes bad education.
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:21.360
It's a pity in different parts of the world.
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:26.639
But uh communication and education are going uh hand to hand.
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:38.880
And nowadays there's uh science call it it is uh something between education and communication, educommunication, educommunication, trying to put together the two things.
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:57.679
And uh of course uh it's very important, like with podcasts that this uh that uh uh you create uh to disseminate the idea of the importance of science on education and how we can get a better world with this, uh then it's it's very important.
00:35:57.760 --> 00:35:59.760
Uh myself, I am a communicator.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:08.960
I have a TV show since the last 27 years in uh in an open channel, but also by YouTube and Facebook Live.
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:21.199
And uh we also collaborate with some universities and I manage a couple of magazines, one for educators, call it EduNews, and the other is uh Verde Ecuador.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.760
It's about uh environmental issues.
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:38.880
Those are two magazines that Firale is managing, and also I have a radio program and I write for the different magazines, a couple of magazines here in Ecuador, one in New York, one in uh it's uh global magazines.
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:42.880
And well, uh I am all the time working on communication.
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:44.320
That's part of my life.
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:46.960
Your entire day is communication, right?
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:50.960
It's uh it's a lot uh yes, I study journalism also, yes.
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:51.840
Yeah, you see.
00:36:52.400 --> 00:37:03.440
And for people who do not want to communicate, or if you fail, if you if you see people are hesitant to communicate or refuse to communicate, what is your remedy then?
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:06.960
Do you have a Of course it depends on people?
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:08.400
It depends on people.
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:13.119
Some of us we c we believe a lot on the power of communication.
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:24.159
Some others are totally exhausted with the amount of information that comes through digital media, then uh people sometimes want to be out of this.
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:25.840
And I respect that.
00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:26.559
I respect it.
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:35.199
If people don't want to be in social networks, has don't want to be in communication, it is it's a decision, a life decision.
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:39.280
Not easy for sure, because everything is about communication nowadays.
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:44.079
But I know some people and I have a couple of friends that say, uh enough.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:45.920
We don't want to be on it.
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:50.800
And they close the media, uh, the networks, and say no more.
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.239
And I respect it.
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:52.880
Yeah.
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.679
Have you ever been on the verge of deciding no more?
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:56.960
I don't think that's your spirit.
00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:58.400
Not not yet.
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:00.559
I continue to be a social person.
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:01.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:07.519
Yeah, I know I see you're very active on Instagram and all those things to communicate what it is that you are doing.
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:08.320
So it's very good.
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:22.079
But I guess I I consider that because you we you want to preserve your intimacy, your family, and that, but in in any case, uh sometimes it's a way to be communicated with friends, uh with other people, and it's nice.
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:24.639
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:26.159
Thank you so much for your time.
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:35.519
I will now go to my two very last questions, and I can hardly uh also, by the way, recommend your TV show, Cara Cara con Rosalia.
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:40.480
I had the honor of being a guest a few years back, which was also very lovely, so thank you so much for that.
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:50.719
So I can vouch for all the content that you create and all the multiple ways that you are communicating with this world and most importantly with the people in Ecuador.
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:55.920
The first question, uh, the first of my uh two very last questions, is about reading.
00:38:56.159 --> 00:39:10.320
So, in your journey as a journalist, as a minister of education, as the vice president of Ecuador, and then even as the president of Ecuador, the first female president of Ecuador, has there been any reading that has inspired you on your journey?
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:15.199
And if so, would you care to share with our audience which book has inspired you?
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:16.239
It depends.
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:17.840
It depends on the time.
00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:29.679
Probably when I was younger, I read a lot of uh uh novels and fiction, and of course uh stories and uh poetry.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:46.320
But nowadays, for example, I am fascinated with a book uh about uh the life of Humboldt, Alexander von Humboldt, that German that uh was uh 200 years ago was one of the most uh brightness minds.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:51.760
I recommend highly uh to read uh uh a book called The Invention of Nature.
00:39:51.840 --> 00:40:08.719
I don't remember the author, it's a lady, a German lady, but the invention of of um of the nature is so such a fantastic that I probably think that Humboldt was one of the most amazing personalities in the whole world in the history.
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:15.039
Uh he was uh achieving and he was talking 200 years ago about climate change.
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:17.199
Can you imagine that?
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:33.760
Or he was talking about Natur Hermald, uh the connection between not only species but even the non-alive parts like the stones and the connection between the different areas of universe.
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:36.719
That's so fantastic that I highly recommend.
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:40.559
I get very inspired by Humboldt nowadays.
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:41.360
Great.
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:49.920
That is a great recommendation, and we'll we'll look up the author, The Invention of Nature, which speaks all about Alexander von Humboldt.
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:51.840
So that's uh that's a great recommendation.
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:53.519
Thank you for that, Rosalia.
00:40:53.599 --> 00:41:00.639
And then to my very last question, and this is something that I am fascinated by, and that I'm asking all my guests on the podcast.
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:05.679
I think you are a morning person, uh, but do you have a morning ritual?
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:07.679
And if so, do you care to share?
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:09.840
Is there something that you do every morning?
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:17.679
Well, I love to have chocolate for breakfast, and sometimes my family says, why not a coffee?
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:19.280
Because people awake with coffee.
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:21.039
Well, I awake with chocolate.
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:31.679
Probably because I'm the land of chocolate, because Ecuador was the first place where the the cacao uh were discovered in the Amazon jungle, in Palanda.
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:36.159
Yeah, then we are the place where the cocoa was born.
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:37.360
Then it's fantastic.
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:44.480
For me, to start my my very beginning at the morning, uh good chocolate is is good for me.
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:50.639
And of course, I take my phone and take a look at what's happening.
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:57.599
Um I am trying to learn another language nowadays, and then I have my dual lingua session with French.
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:31.679
Yes, uh, yeah, sometimes I go to Africa and I I need some French or to France, and then with English I can manage it, or with Portuguese, but I I feel I need, and I think it's good for my brain to learn something, and I recommend everybody to learn something in a formal way, going to universities or not in a non-formal way, but learning, reading, being interested in things is one thing that I I really, really feel that is the core of my life nowadays.
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:32.159
Yeah.
00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:33.760
And on that note, we will end.
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:35.360
That's beautiful advice.
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:40.559
Keep on learning, everybody, if you're listening, but also keep on eating chocolate.
00:42:41.119 --> 00:42:42.239
Oh, really good.
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:45.119
Especially Ecuadorian chocolate.
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:47.039
Especially Ecuadorian chocolate.
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:48.400
Yes, yes, of course.
00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:51.280
Uh Rosalia, thank you so much for your time.
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:57.199
I wish you all the very, very best with all these many initiatives that you are uh working on.
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:00.719
Uh, we'll be sure to include them in all our show notes.
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:08.239
I'm sure the world will hear a lot more about you and all the great work uh that you are doing if they haven't already.
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:09.920
Thank you so much for your time, Rosario.
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:12.320
Thank you very much, Albon, have a great day.
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:13.360
Thank you.
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:25.280
You've listened to Pulse by AlphaWire, produced by Natalie Piles and Amela Feizel.
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:33.519
With great music, The Optimist, written by Holly Hamel, performed and produced by Alo.
00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:39.360
Episodes hosted weekly by me, Aldo DePop.
00:00:00.959 --> 00:00:11.199
Welcome to Puzzles by Alpha Wire, the podcast where science and education meet cutting-edge technology and artificial intelligence.
00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:19.199
My name is Aldo the Pop, and each week I sit down with innovators, thinkers, and doers who are working to change our world for the better.
00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:29.600
Together we explore their journeys, uncover the lessons they learned, and take anti drives them on their path to success.
00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:35.840
For this episode of Pulse, we're diving into the story of a true trailblazer.
00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:52.320
Rosalia Arteaga Serrano is a politician, lawyer, author, and educator who quite literally changed history by becoming the first woman to serve as both vice president and president of the Republic of Ecuador.
00:00:52.560 --> 00:01:02.479
In 1997, during a moment of political turmoil, Rosalia stepped in as Ecuador's president for a brief but powerful two days.
00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:07.280
Proof that sometimes history is made in moments, not in years.
00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:20.400
Before and after that, she held some of the country's most important roles, including vice president and minister of education, where her passion for learning and culture really took shape.
00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:24.400
But her impact doesn't stop at national borders.
00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:38.560
In 2021, she even put her name forward to become the first female Secretary General of the United Nations, reinforcing her commitment to global leadership, human rights, equality, and democracy.
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Rosalia, to me, is an absolute force of nature, still very much shaping the future, leading education and sustainability initiatives in Latin America, serving on international boards and writing powerful books, including Geronimo, a deeply personal tribute to her late son.
00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:04.719
From politics to poetry, her journey is one of courage, resilience, and purpose.
00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:09.919
And that's exactly why we're talking about her and with her today.
00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:15.599
Hope you will enjoy this interview with Rosalia Arteaga Serrano.
00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:43.520
Yes, and another episode of Pulse by Alpha Wire, and I think this one is a very, very special conversation because it is with a person I admire greatly, a person that I think I am very proud to call the friend, but also someone that I think on every level has done and achieved amazing things.
00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:46.639
Rosalia Arteaga, a very warm welcome to you.
00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:47.919
So happy you could make it.
00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:48.960
Thank you, Aldo.
00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:53.520
I am happy also to share this space and to to exchange some ideas.
00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:55.360
Thank you very much for the invitation.
00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:56.639
You're very welcome.
00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:58.240
And I'm not lying, Rosalia.
00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:02.560
I think you are a very important person in my journey at least.
00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:04.400
And I I think it's on many levels.
00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:16.800
I think first and foremost, when I started my education enterprise, you were one of the first people I spoke to in my journey in understanding the state of global education better.
00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:29.840
And you have such a great understanding, such an in-depth understanding of that, and you've had decades in your career, you know, invested in education, which is I think makes you very, very fascinating.
00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:32.639
And then later on, I started with podcasting.
00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:38.319
And for the other podcasts that I'm running, Messi and Masterful, you were the very first interviewee.
00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:53.280
And so my heart skipped a beat when you said yes to also come on Pulse to talk a little bit about science and education and technology and kind of the things you see and what you think about when we address those things.
00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:53.919
Thank you.
00:03:54.080 --> 00:04:03.360
Well, I say that I'm very happy to hear and to know that you are very successful in your entrepreneurs, especially in educational fields.
00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:07.759
As we talked uh some time ago, I am passionate about education.
00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:13.439
I I started very early in my 17s to be a teacher.
00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:23.439
And I think after that that I received a proposal and very interesting one, I decided to get linked to education all my life.
00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:34.959
After being in politics and that, I created an organization, an NGO, called it FIDAL, Foundation for Integration and Development in Latin America.
00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:39.600
And since the beginning, we are linked with education and science also.
00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:50.480
We start to create first some events, some seminars about science and communication, because we need to communicate science in an appropriate way.
00:04:50.560 --> 00:05:12.319
That it's what you are doing, because many times people don't know what means the links between science and life and human behaviors, even now when we are in the middle of this challenging artificial intelligence intrusion in our lives, in every step of our lives.
00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:19.120
But uh like 30 years ago, almost when we created the Firal Foundation, people doesn't talk about that.
00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:30.160
Then we were very, since the very early creation of our organization, talking about science, technology, innovation, and also education and communication.
00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:50.720
And uh nowadays we are in Firal almost 27 years of going forward, working in some process uh very interesting with the kind of preparation and training the teachers to be part of these very important um matters.
00:05:50.959 --> 00:06:22.000
Then we have some projects in Firal, like a Steam Academy that uh works with science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, but also with ethics, because we think that ethics has to be in the core of everything, because science without ethics can destroy the world, as we can see nowadays when the when the worlds are going around and uh the drones are having the potential to destroy everything, then it's very important to apply ethics.
00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:34.560
And we talk about that with the teachers, because we especially are talking with teachers and training teachers, but of course, we are looking through the behaviors of the teachers, uh how they work with the students.
00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:50.879
And we organize next week we will have a fair of science with the students in a very rural area, very distant from Quito, and uh with teachers that usually doesn't have that kind of training and capabilities, but we are trying to manage it.
00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:59.600
And of course, we train teachers all around the country on these matters of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics.
00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:10.720
And uh of course, also um we have the not uh the help of the Ministry of Education, but we are allowed to do it inside these schools especially.
00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:39.120
And uh well, I am also linked to a European university, UNIR University, that is the university, international university of La Rioja, that is a Spanish one, located in in the inner Spain, but at the same time it's a very global because there are students in more than 190 countries, and all is uh online and with a lot of uh of develop it.
00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:45.839
And we are also creating a museum and an eco-museum and library that has a lot to do with science.
00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:50.639
Well, these are the principal matters that now I have in hand.
00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:51.759
Yeah.
00:07:52.079 --> 00:08:04.959
And uh dear listener, uh Rosalia gives a great breakdown of all the initiatives she is involved with, and we'll be sure to include the links to all these initiatives in our show notes so so people can find out about it.
00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:14.959
You quickly hinted to your career in politics, you're the former vice president as well as president of uh Ecuador, and you were even before that Minister of Education.
00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:17.839
Yes, education, culture and sports.
00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:18.639
Yes.
00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:20.720
Education, cultural, and sports.
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.639
So you have an elaborate and very extensive political career as well.
00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:31.600
You're also an author, you've written beautiful books, so you're really what I would call an uomo universalis.
00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:35.360
You have so many things that come together in all the things that you do.
00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:37.600
You're always up at the crack of dawn.
00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:50.960
So my question was going to be in your entire career, like for people listening and say, Well, I would love to have a career like Rosalia, is there one thing that you would kind of advise them?
00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:53.440
What is the one thing that thrives you?
00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:57.440
You know, if you can even summarize it in one thing, but is there kind of one takeaway that you could pass?
00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:03.840
It's not easy, Aldo, but I have to say uh that you must be persistent.
00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:10.320
Persistent on what you want, what you believe, uh, what's your passion?
00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:18.080
Of course, I have to say you have to be prepared for it, and and you can you can add some other things, but persistence is very important.
00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:20.000
Persistence is very important.
00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:29.200
And then for the many teachers that you've trained, because you were modest about Fidel, but it is one of the biggest teacher organizations in Latin America, right?
00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:34.480
It is it is a massive undertaking to train all these teachers, to work with all these teachers.
00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:55.360
We had the great pleasure of working with you a few years back during lockdown, in collaboration with the ministry as well, whereby we trained loads of teachers to continue the process of teaching and learning, also when they're at home, uh, because that was very difficult uh at that time on understanding how to be a digital teacher.
00:09:55.519 --> 00:10:00.879
But if we turn the tables, what have you learned from the teachers that you've trained?
00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:04.879
Is there anything that the teachers have taught you rather than the other way around?
00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:28.639
First, uh, I have to say that we remind with uh uh with a lot of gratitude the help that you you give to us uh to the Ministry of Education during the pandemic uh situation with the lockdown of the teachers and you and your platform and and your your collaborators pay a lot of uh attention to it and uh give us the possibility to train teachers.
00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:33.279
And it was really appreciated by the Ministry of Education and for us.
00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:38.159
Well, about teachers, I learned every day from them.
00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:55.600
We had a contest for teachers since the last 17 years, not only teachers from Ecuador, from all over Iberoamerica, then we have teachers from Spain, from Chile, from Argentina, from Brazil, etc., all around, from Mexico to the south.
00:10:55.840 --> 00:11:02.559
Every time that we read or observe what the teachers are doing, it is fantastic.
00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:19.120
Uh, because even with small tools, with almost nothing, uh, sometimes in the rural areas, with no possibilities of having materials, laboratories, or anything, even not non-connection, non-connectivity, they are doing a very good job.
00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:21.840
And we had very good examples.
00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:50.879
Uh, for example, uh, like two or three years ago, we had a teacher that was the head of the blind organization, uh school for for kids, and she developed some tools and that she won the prize of uh Fidal, but also we asked her to be part of the Parquet Convocatory for the Global Teacher Award, and she was recognized as one of the 50 best teachers of the world.
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:55.039
Then it demonstrates that nothing is impossible for a teacher.
00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:56.480
Nothing is impossible.
00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:17.679
And nowadays we have fantastic teachers, and I learned from them to be humble, to be people that uh work every day respecting the others, the students, and trying to give them the tools that they need for develop uh their careers, their their lives, then every day.
00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:37.519
And also, since the last uh two, three years, we have a group of teachers that are organized, the winners of the awards and the finalists of the of the contests, they organize uh uh they have an organization called Teachers of Excellence, Professores de Excellencia in Spanish.
00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:46.320
And it's very, very interesting look and and in certain way to participate, but it's their organization, not our organization.
00:12:46.639 --> 00:13:01.519
And to know how they move the others, how they organize events, they public some books of experiences of the teachers, and they are very proactive with the ministry and with others.
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:08.960
And it's quite interesting because especially in Latin America, the groups of teachers that are organized, they usually protest.
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:11.279
They go to the streets and protest.
00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:15.519
But this group says we are not protesting, we are proposing, no?
00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:18.399
And that's uh such a difference between them.
00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:21.120
Then every day I learn from them.
00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:22.639
That's wonderful.
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:24.639
And there's so much in there.
00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:26.879
As you said, you need to be resilient.
00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:29.919
Those teachers sound like they're very resilient, right?
00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:35.600
Because the circumstances are not in their favor, they don't have a lot of economic resources.
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:49.360
I can imagine they are in in very remote areas in some cases, so it's difficult to get connected with other people, and still they have the responsibility to raise their students, right?
00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:58.399
So how would you say when we we speak about a combination of technology and education, do you think that has improved the situation for teachers in Ecuador?
00:13:58.960 --> 00:13:59.679
Yes, yes.
00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:18.399
Uh after pandemia, because pandemia was a big uh issue, and after that uh people, especially the authorities, understood that it's necessary to have connectivity to give the teachers some tools, or uh private companies also are helping.
00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:30.320
For example, we always uh give um the teachers some tools, some computers, some laptops and things like that to help them to have the materials for the for their work.
00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:38.639
Um but uh it's it's also um uh interesting that they are like uh with hunger of knowledge.
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:40.240
They are resilient, of course.
00:14:40.320 --> 00:15:13.120
And na nowadays in Ecuador we have a problem with uh violence in Ecuador that we didn't have in in the past, but now some uh delinquency groups are here in Ecuador, uh, cartels, uh, narco traffic uh problems, and the teachers are the first that are feeling that with students because recruiting is a really big situation in Ecuador nowadays, and they have to confront that and to give the the kids and the teenagers emotional support.
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:37.519
And it many times has to be done by using tools like connectivity, like platforms and that, then it's it's quite important, and I think most uh every day the importance of technology is really relevant in Ecuadorian and Latin American education.
00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:58.720
Mostly now when teachers they need to know how to manage the tools and how to respond to the requirements of the students because you know, like here, like in everywhere in the world, kids are very fascinated and and uh teenagers also very fascinated with technology.
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:13.919
Then it's important for the teachers to know the tools and to know if the homework that they send to the students, it's with the help of Chat GBT or other tools, it's so important.
00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:18.480
And they they need to know to confront these situations.
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:31.360
On the other hand, like in other countries, it is a big question mark about when it's time for the students to get in touch with technology, when it's the time.
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:48.879
I know for sure that in many countries that like in the northern countries, but also in Australia, where I have my grandkids, they are not allowed in schools to have cell phones, for example, and not allowed to have access to uh social networks.
00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:54.320
And I think it's wise because we need to protect them from certain risks.
00:16:54.480 --> 00:17:09.680
And in other hands, they need to be more social uh presentially with the classmates, with friends, not only with the mediation of a tool like this, what we are doing now, because we are in different parts of the world.
00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:21.680
But if they are in the same classroom and they are all the time with the mobiles and with other tools, they are not developing the social schedules that are very important.
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:47.200
Then on one hand, it's necessary to have and to learn about the variety of tools that we have nowadays, but in it's also necessary to provide them with emotional support, with emotional intelligence, with the support of parents, teachers, and the classmates, the friends also in a presential way.
00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:58.160
You speak about working directly with the teachers, but you also have a forum of education ministers.
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:03.599
So you're also looking at the grassroots level as well as the top-down level.
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:04.400
Is that correct?
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.279
And which of the findings that you've just discussed?
00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:11.039
What have you discussed in the forum and how concerned are education ministers?
00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:32.960
Yeah, we started uh last year with this initiative that was uh our initiative in Firal, and uh we convocate the former ministers of education because it's a pity that we are not taking the advantage of the knowledge and experience that people that have been in the position can provide to the new ones.
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:39.039
For example, these days uh it's uh it has been a change, and we have a new Minister of Education.
00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:44.960
And it's we always invite the current minister to be part of the meetings that we have.
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:48.880
Sometimes online meetings, sometimes presential meetings.
00:18:49.039 --> 00:19:05.599
In December we are going to have uh the last uh presential meeting, and probably next year we are going to continue with online meetings that facilitates because ministers, uh former ministers and are not all of them in in the capital in Quito.
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:08.640
And we talk about the uh different situations.
00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:18.240
The last uh meetings were about school and violence, talking about this situation that we have and it's very scary, especially for teachers.
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:25.440
And the good things are that we are like a think tank of former ministers of education, but we always invite experts.
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:38.720
For example, if we are talking about migrations and education, because we have a lot of Venezuelans, like half a million Venezuelans because of the diaspora of Venezuela, and a lot of Colombians also.
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:49.759
And um the issue is that um we talk about these uh situations inside the forum of former ministers, but we invite experts.
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:59.200
And we invite teachers to give their testimony about what's happening in the classroom because finally the things are defined at the classroom.
00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:04.400
You know uh very well that because you are all the time working with educators.
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:13.839
You can have an excellent minister, you can have very interesting tools, you you can have lines, uh, models and that.
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:17.839
But finally, the situation is defined with the teacher and the students.
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.160
The teacher is the authority at the classroom.
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:27.279
Then it's so important, even in these times when the knowledge doesn't come only from teachers.
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:28.799
In the past it was like that.
00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:33.200
Teachers were the authority, they know, and the students learn.
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:41.680
Nowadays it's not real because many times the students, especially in areas of technology, know more than the teachers.
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:49.759
Maybe the teacher has to learn from the students, but the guidance, the experience had to be provided by the teacher.
00:20:50.000 --> 00:21:05.680
And then that's uh that's the way that we are working on this forum with teachers, real teachers in the classroom, and also experts that provide us some feelings, some studies about what we are uh working on.
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:09.119
And it has been an interesting uh experience.
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:23.039
Uh it's uh lasting only for a little bit more than a year, uh, and it has been quite interesting, and the Minister of Education is uh interested in sharing and uh shared experiences with us.
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.319
It's interesting how those things are all connected, right?
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.559
Because violence is, of course, a lot more than education.
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:37.680
But as you say, like the teacher is the first one who's affected by such a wave of violence into the school.
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:44.640
So even though there's an educational impact, it affects every layer of society, really, right?
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:51.759
So it is definitely a topic that needs to be addressed from all angles, um uh so to say.
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:59.440
So, you know, this is a topic that I feel so sorry that Ecuador is affected by this, and yeah, I hope you will find a way out.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:16.000
You being so international, um traveling a lot, being the president in Latin America for you near this this this international university, do you consult sources from elsewhere as well for specific problems you're dealing with?
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:24.079
So international involvement and are there international organizations you rely on or or or talk to about uh these topics?
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:46.240
Well, yes, uh of course uh I am part of some initiatives like Waterkeeper Alliance, that of course has to be with with water preservation, but also has to be with education, because most of us we have to to talk with the community and to talk with the schools because they must be involved in the initiatives.
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:48.640
Everything has to be with education, as you know.
00:22:49.039 --> 00:23:01.920
Then if if I go to make a speech in some places, uh well, I I must be in in contact with the different persons in the different places.
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:17.200
Nowadays I am part also of an initiative called Enrich in Luck, that is an initiative to link uh people and uh companies and universities from Europe with uh similars in Latin America.
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:18.559
And it's quite interesting.
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:30.160
We are a group of ambassadors that we have meetings uh all the time and try to get the best to replicate and uh to do things in common.
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:31.920
Uh that's one of the goals.
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:34.079
And um I think it's it's working.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:34.799
It's working.
00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:36.720
It takes time, but it's working.
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:40.400
In terms of violence, the problem is not only from Ecuador.
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:55.839
Ecuador probably is the one of the last countries that arrived to this bad situation, but in Latin America you you know more what's happening in Colombia and what's happening in Mexico or in Brazil or Venezuela or Nicaragua and that.
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.640
Then the problem is a continental problem.
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:22.960
I think that we must uh work together to have the good results that we need for the especially the new generations, um, because they are most affected than the elders, and we must uh work very hard to give them best conditions of security, best conditions of education, health and others.
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:40.799
I think the pandemic uh situation that all the world has uh put in relevance some issues like health and education has to be at the top level when the the decision makers have to act.
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:59.599
Then education is at the top level, and of course nowadays we need to be part of this scientific environment, not to be let behind, because if not, we are going to be always behind and continue to be non-developed countries.
00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:21.440
Then that's one of the reasons that we create the STEM Academy, the ESTEM Academy, and we are working hard to create the conditions for the kids, especially women's in our case, to follow scientific careers because we have a lack of people working in science in general in Latin America.
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:40.319
They are some exceptions, uh, but when you see what happens with the most of the countries of Latin America, we are always consumers of what uh the North, Europe, uh United States and nowadays China and other countries from Asia are creating.
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:46.799
Then we need to create our uh our owns based in what's uh going on in the world, of course.
00:25:46.960 --> 00:26:12.240
Then uh for that it's so important to create the conditions to have more kids interested in science, more women interested in science, and not wanting to be always lawyers, but going on to physics and chemistry and biology, and also in in terms of engineering in the all the uh biggest couple of engineers that we have.
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:13.039
Yeah.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:20.160
It's uh an interesting fact uh you state there that we need more science, not less.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:26.079
And in in some countries, the political climate is not necessarily encouraging towards science.
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:40.880
At the United States, there's been loads of uh funding cuts, loads of uh I think renowned institutions that they unfortunately had to close down loads of departments, loads of programs, because uh loads of people don't see the need for it.
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:47.359
And and I hope that this that it is a wave, so that it'll and by that I mean I that it'll come and go.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:59.119
But I do uh completely agree with you that there is a need for being there and contributing in a constructive way, and science could be a very good vehicle for that, as could be education, right?
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:07.279
So so it's it's almost of giving people the purpose that they need, which I think science and education can provide with that, through that.
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:09.039
Yes, I totally agree.
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:22.079
I totally agree, and and I even think that the only way that we are going to go through these big challenges that humanity has, like uh climate change, for example, is through science.
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:23.200
Through science.
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:32.160
Because for sure, science is going to be the tool that provides us with the solutions for a lot of things that are happening.
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:35.680
I am a strongly believer in what science can do.
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:38.000
Science and ethics, of course.
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.799
Um, and also education.
00:27:41.039 --> 00:28:02.559
Education is a great issue, not only for personal behaviors on how you can go forward and have a good uh economic situation and that, but also for the society, because more educated people can have better societies, and that's a big goal that we have, a big challenge that we have here in Ecuador.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:05.119
To be fair, I think the challenge is global.
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:15.759
There's an erosion of how people interpret scientific facts, and I think social media and and kind of how digital we are plays a role in that.
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.759
You cannot summarize science in 130 characters, right?
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:27.039
People want it fast, people need sound bites, otherwise it doesn't exist, which is averse to how science can grow.
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:33.440
Science is profound, it's in-depth, you need to dive in, you need to take your time to understand it, right?
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:36.720
So I think those two are very contrary.
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.000
And the other side effect that I see there is our focus.
00:28:40.160 --> 00:29:06.079
So the focus of the next generation, the mere fact or the mere act of concentration has gotten a lot more difficult than, for instance, when I was going to school and growing up and whatever, I didn't have such a device in the school, or or I didn't get any kind of homework there, or I wasn't drawn to screens as much as the generation of my daughter, or even the generation after me, Generation Z is.
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:08.799
So there's loads of things there to take into consideration.
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:15.759
Now, naturally, it's not only doom and gloom, there's of course also upsides because technology has also brought us a lot, right?
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:23.440
Going back to the teachers you spoke about earlier, they're hopefully able to move more freely because of technology.
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:25.440
But I would say it is a trade-off.
00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:45.440
And I think we we all need to be aware and focus on how we make this the best version of events and you know not go in either you know the either side of either losing our focus or losing science or our capacity to grow further and and our willingness as well.
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:55.519
I want to talk to you about the Echo Museum and the library because you've been working very hard on that.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:30:00.480
Um it's already, I mean, I it it sounds like a beautiful, beautiful project.
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:05.119
Can you tell me how you got involved and where where the project is momentarily?
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:12.880
Well, concerning what you say before, when you say we didn't have the tool, we have the tools that I have before behind me, the books.
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:13.119
Yeah.
00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:18.480
They were and they continue to be my best tools for me, yeah, for my generation.
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:27.680
But uh, of course, I know that people nowadays are reading in tablets and that, but it's important to preserve the reading issue.
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:47.680
Well, about the Eco Museum, it starts a long time ago when we tried to get a house from the municipality, a building from the municipality, the historical center of Quito, that is one of the best historical centers declared by UNESCO like uh the universal patrimonium for the whole humanity.
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:57.279
And in that historical center, we get a building from the municipality, and like almost three years ago we started to refurbish it.
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:09.519
It means uh a lot of investment, monetary investment, but a lot of creativity too, because we have to preserve the house like it was in the past, but adapting it to the modernity.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:12.720
And um we have a beautiful house.
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:28.640
I will send to you some videos about it, and um the idea is that that beautiful house uh contains not only collections of art or shells or or things like that, but also has a lot of technology.
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:36.960
We are creating with a group of young people from Ecuador uh a special artificial intelligence for the building.
00:31:37.200 --> 00:32:33.359
And uh we are going to have um different tools like a virtual aquarium, because uh many kids, especially from the poor areas, they probably cannot go to CDC and they can feel the sea and the animals of the sea, or maybe the jungle in other cases, or the mangroves, or space, also in this museum, and we are going to have um virtual sports and also mathematics, uh, ancestral mathematics from the uh eras of Incas and before, and Chinese and Egyptian, and also we are really engaged in how it's going to be with all these uh technological tools and to be uh a big uh attraction for the young people especially to be part of this initiative.
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:34.240
That's our dream.
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:47.039
And I hope next year we are going to inaugurate it and to have uh working all these tools that we are imagining and creating for this uh very different eco-museum and library.
00:32:47.279 --> 00:33:11.440
Then the books are going to be there, as of course, the digital books also, and we are going to have paintings, but also virtual art, and we are going to have the this aquarium, virtual aquarium, and other very creative initiatives that compose uh a great idea to be part of this uh city and of course of of my country.
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:13.279
Nice, it sounds amazing.
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.720
And you're involved, I think, from the very beginning, right?
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:19.839
So Yes, I I am the creator of the idea.
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:20.240
Yes.
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.640
You're the creator of the idea, there you go.
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:24.559
Congrats on getting it that far.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:25.200
Thank you.
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:27.920
So do you anticipate an opening in the near future?
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:29.920
Yes, yes, uh next year.
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:34.000
I I don't have the exact date because it depends on the resources.
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:49.440
We are doing it uh with donations because foundation the foundation Fidel doesn't have the resources for that, and we are having some uh some funding from private companies in Ecuador, but we need more, of course, always need more.
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:56.480
Then for the refurbishing is one that is almost 80%, maybe a little bit more than 80% refurbishing.
00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:02.640
But nowadays for the implementation of the museum, we need uh more uh uh money for that.
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:08.480
Then we depend a lot on what we can get uh for opening the museum next year.
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:14.400
Fingers crossed, and we'll be sure to do our our little bit in spreading the message on the museum.
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:27.039
And if people want to get involved, then go to our show notes and and read up uh more about it because it's such a wonderful initiative and such great educational work you're doing uh as well in in terms of a museum.
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:27.840
Thank you.
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:28.960
Thank you very much.
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:31.360
I will send you information about it.
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:32.960
Do so, do so.
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:58.320
Your journey has been incredible because we haven't even addressed the fact that you're also a poet and and you write books, and so there's so much in your career, and and you've already, in the beginning of the interview, you said it's all about resilience, uh, which I can imagine you you are you're a very strong person, uh very uh resilient, but at the same time you're also very capable of listening and reaching out to others, right?
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:04.320
You're very open, very approachable, you talk to loads of people all over the world.
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:08.719
How important do you think communication has been in your journey?
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:10.480
Very important, yeah.
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:18.159
And I I think that communication is a very important tool tool of education, sometimes bad education.
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:21.360
It's a pity in different parts of the world.
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:26.639
But uh communication and education are going uh hand to hand.
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:38.880
And nowadays there's uh science call it it is uh something between education and communication, educommunication, educommunication, trying to put together the two things.
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:57.679
And uh of course uh it's very important, like with podcasts that this uh that uh uh you create uh to disseminate the idea of the importance of science on education and how we can get a better world with this, uh then it's it's very important.
00:35:57.760 --> 00:35:59.760
Uh myself, I am a communicator.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:08.960
I have a TV show since the last 27 years in uh in an open channel, but also by YouTube and Facebook Live.
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:21.199
And uh we also collaborate with some universities and I manage a couple of magazines, one for educators, call it EduNews, and the other is uh Verde Ecuador.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.760
It's about uh environmental issues.
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:38.880
Those are two magazines that Firale is managing, and also I have a radio program and I write for the different magazines, a couple of magazines here in Ecuador, one in New York, one in uh it's uh global magazines.
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:42.880
And well, uh I am all the time working on communication.
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:44.320
That's part of my life.
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:46.960
Your entire day is communication, right?
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:50.960
It's uh it's a lot uh yes, I study journalism also, yes.
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:51.840
Yeah, you see.
00:36:52.400 --> 00:37:03.440
And for people who do not want to communicate, or if you fail, if you if you see people are hesitant to communicate or refuse to communicate, what is your remedy then?
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:06.960
Do you have a Of course it depends on people?
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:08.400
It depends on people.
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:13.119
Some of us we c we believe a lot on the power of communication.
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:24.159
Some others are totally exhausted with the amount of information that comes through digital media, then uh people sometimes want to be out of this.
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:25.840
And I respect that.
00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:26.559
I respect it.
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:35.199
If people don't want to be in social networks, has don't want to be in communication, it is it's a decision, a life decision.
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:39.280
Not easy for sure, because everything is about communication nowadays.
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:44.079
But I know some people and I have a couple of friends that say, uh enough.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:45.920
We don't want to be on it.
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:50.800
And they close the media, uh, the networks, and say no more.
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.239
And I respect it.
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:52.880
Yeah.
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.679
Have you ever been on the verge of deciding no more?
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:56.960
I don't think that's your spirit.
00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:58.400
Not not yet.
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:00.559
I continue to be a social person.
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:01.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:07.519
Yeah, I know I see you're very active on Instagram and all those things to communicate what it is that you are doing.
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:08.320
So it's very good.
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:22.079
But I guess I I consider that because you we you want to preserve your intimacy, your family, and that, but in in any case, uh sometimes it's a way to be communicated with friends, uh with other people, and it's nice.
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:24.639
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:26.159
Thank you so much for your time.
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:35.519
I will now go to my two very last questions, and I can hardly uh also, by the way, recommend your TV show, Cara Cara con Rosalia.
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:40.480
I had the honor of being a guest a few years back, which was also very lovely, so thank you so much for that.
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:50.719
So I can vouch for all the content that you create and all the multiple ways that you are communicating with this world and most importantly with the people in Ecuador.
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:55.920
The first question, uh, the first of my uh two very last questions, is about reading.
00:38:56.159 --> 00:39:10.320
So, in your journey as a journalist, as a minister of education, as the vice president of Ecuador, and then even as the president of Ecuador, the first female president of Ecuador, has there been any reading that has inspired you on your journey?
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:15.199
And if so, would you care to share with our audience which book has inspired you?
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:16.239
It depends.
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:17.840
It depends on the time.
00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:29.679
Probably when I was younger, I read a lot of uh uh novels and fiction, and of course uh stories and uh poetry.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:46.320
But nowadays, for example, I am fascinated with a book uh about uh the life of Humboldt, Alexander von Humboldt, that German that uh was uh 200 years ago was one of the most uh brightness minds.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:51.760
I recommend highly uh to read uh uh a book called The Invention of Nature.
00:39:51.840 --> 00:40:08.719
I don't remember the author, it's a lady, a German lady, but the invention of of um of the nature is so such a fantastic that I probably think that Humboldt was one of the most amazing personalities in the whole world in the history.
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:15.039
Uh he was uh achieving and he was talking 200 years ago about climate change.
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:17.199
Can you imagine that?
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:33.760
Or he was talking about Natur Hermald, uh the connection between not only species but even the non-alive parts like the stones and the connection between the different areas of universe.
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:36.719
That's so fantastic that I highly recommend.
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:40.559
I get very inspired by Humboldt nowadays.
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:41.360
Great.
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:49.920
That is a great recommendation, and we'll we'll look up the author, The Invention of Nature, which speaks all about Alexander von Humboldt.
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:51.840
So that's uh that's a great recommendation.
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:53.519
Thank you for that, Rosalia.
00:40:53.599 --> 00:41:00.639
And then to my very last question, and this is something that I am fascinated by, and that I'm asking all my guests on the podcast.
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:05.679
I think you are a morning person, uh, but do you have a morning ritual?
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:07.679
And if so, do you care to share?
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:09.840
Is there something that you do every morning?
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:17.679
Well, I love to have chocolate for breakfast, and sometimes my family says, why not a coffee?
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:19.280
Because people awake with coffee.
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:21.039
Well, I awake with chocolate.
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:31.679
Probably because I'm the land of chocolate, because Ecuador was the first place where the the cacao uh were discovered in the Amazon jungle, in Palanda.
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:36.159
Yeah, then we are the place where the cocoa was born.
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:37.360
Then it's fantastic.
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:44.480
For me, to start my my very beginning at the morning, uh good chocolate is is good for me.
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:50.639
And of course, I take my phone and take a look at what's happening.
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:57.599
Um I am trying to learn another language nowadays, and then I have my dual lingua session with French.
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:31.679
Yes, uh, yeah, sometimes I go to Africa and I I need some French or to France, and then with English I can manage it, or with Portuguese, but I I feel I need, and I think it's good for my brain to learn something, and I recommend everybody to learn something in a formal way, going to universities or not in a non-formal way, but learning, reading, being interested in things is one thing that I I really, really feel that is the core of my life nowadays.
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:32.159
Yeah.
00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:33.760
And on that note, we will end.
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:35.360
That's beautiful advice.
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:40.559
Keep on learning, everybody, if you're listening, but also keep on eating chocolate.
00:42:41.119 --> 00:42:42.239
Oh, really good.
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:45.119
Especially Ecuadorian chocolate.
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:47.039
Especially Ecuadorian chocolate.
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:48.400
Yes, yes, of course.
00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:51.280
Uh Rosalia, thank you so much for your time.
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:57.199
I wish you all the very, very best with all these many initiatives that you are uh working on.
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:00.719
Uh, we'll be sure to include them in all our show notes.
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:08.239
I'm sure the world will hear a lot more about you and all the great work uh that you are doing if they haven't already.
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:09.920
Thank you so much for your time, Rosario.
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:12.320
Thank you very much, Albon, have a great day.
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:13.360
Thank you.
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:25.280
You've listened to Pulse by AlphaWire, produced by Natalie Piles and Amela Feizel.
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:33.519
With great music, The Optimist, written by Holly Hamel, performed and produced by Alo.
00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:39.360
Episodes hosted weekly by me, Aldo DePop.
