Michael Ebeling & Tabitha Moore - Innovative Book Funnels: Maximize Book Sales, Revenue, and Customer Value

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So today I'm here with Michael Ebling and Tabitha Moore.
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So Michael's been a literary agent and author business manager for over
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25 years. He sold books to every major publisher, including Simon
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and Schuster, Random House, Penguin, Rodale Press, Hay
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House and many more. And the books he's represented have hit the New York
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Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Amazon bestseller list for
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several occasions. Several of his authors have been featured on Almost every
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national TV show, including the Dr. Oz Show, Good Morning
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America, the Today Show, CNN, Fox News, and many more.
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Michael's experiences with helping authors find their right publishing
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company and talent for creating innovative opportunities enables him
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to advise and support authors to realize their goals. The biggest goal being
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to grow a business off the back of your book. Tabitha Moore, She's a
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book marketing consultant and a book funnel pro who helps coaches, consultants,
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speakers and entrepreneurs turn their book into a business. With book
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funnels, she believes the hustle based book marketing strategies out there end
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up causing unnecessary burnout. By leveraging her book funnel
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strategies, her clients have turned their backlist titles into international
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bestsellers while growing six figure email lists and six figure
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businesses to support their lifestyle of choice. She also helps her students
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inside the book funnel business builder package create their own high
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converting book funnels. When Michael and Tabitha aren't strategizing
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or helping clients, you can find them walking the beaches or playing golf on the
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north shore of Cali. So welcome both of you. I'm so excited you're
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here. Thank you for doing this. We're going to talk about book funnels and
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when I think of book funnels, I think of like five different stages of them.
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So the first one's the audience, right? Like who are we targeting and why? And
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then that's also how we get our traffic. Once we understand who that audience
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is, then that's the offers that go into the book funnels and what
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are they going to look like? And then there's a creative component. How are we
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going to present those offers? Then we optimize each step of the funnel and
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then the follow up. Right. So those are the five things. I have no
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idea if we're going to get through all those or not. Probably not. But the
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first. Next question I have. What inspired both of you to start helping
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authors build their book funnels? Yeah. Hey Charles, thanks for having us
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so much. We really appreciate it. Yeah. This came out of the pain of hundreds
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of my authors coming to me season after season after season, no matter who
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they were published with. Very frustrated, very upset. And their number
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one complaint Was that the publishers didn't do anything to help them promote their
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book, even though they had promised them that they would. It took me a
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long time to figure out that that promise was an over promise and
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an under delivery. And that ultimately it didn't matter who they
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were publishing with. It was going to be up to them to be able to
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market and promote their own book. That was great, but I still didn't know how
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to do it because I was still in the old traditional mindset with publicity and
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book signings and all of the old school ways that people marketed their
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books. And then Tabitha showed up in my life and she was
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a expert digital marketer. And so we paired the two together with the
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high end clients and then she did the digital marketing and we were able to
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come up with understanding of how to flip the whole paradigm upside down, the whole
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publishing process upside down. When you're thinking about nonfiction authors
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getting them to think beyond just selling books and to focus on a book funnel.
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So talk about that process because it's different of just selling a book versus
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putting together a whole book funnel. So just talk about the thought process of walking
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authors through that just mindset shift is what it really is. I think.
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Yeah, 100%. In the nonfiction prescriptive how to world. The
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challenge with this is that there's a transformation that the author or
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the book is trying to provide to the reader. And that
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transformation is usually something that's been a habitual long term
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behavior. That could be parenting, that could be relationship, that could be
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a business format, that could be weight loss, that could be a lot of things
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that someone's trying to make a transition or trying to make a transformation from
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point A to B. When 90% of all books aren't read past the first
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chapter, non fiction book read past the first chapter, that's going to be difficult
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to make that change even if they read the whole book.
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Long term habitual behavior needs to have back end
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programs to support that change. They need videos
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and lessons and accountability and structure and
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keeping them in a lane that helps them day in and day out change
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that behavior. So the back end programs are where the real change happens.
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For anyone who's in the genre you're teaching, there are
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many levels of those that we offer. There's bump offers and upsells, but there's
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also back end programs that are. There are higher ticket offers, but
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ultimately trying to help the reader get from point A to point
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B. And the best way to do that is with more of a structured program
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than just the book itself. Totally agree. I was just talking with an author
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today and she just wants to sell books. And I'm like, you've got all these
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other services that you're offering on the back end. Getting her to flip her
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mindset, like, don't not focus on those just to sell books just from a
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price point margin, right? Like, just the profitability of those backend
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products allow you to serve people a lot more than just through a book.
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And so you got to focus on the back end too, not just the front
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end. So when you think about the book, you know, you think about it
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tickling the consciousness of that pain. You're tickling where they're
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hurting with the book. But it's not going to solve all the problems. Again,
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they're going to need a more structured program to help them make those changes.
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And to your, your other point, which I think is very, very important from the
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author standpoint, it's impossible to
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sustain your living on a $2 book royalty
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and be able to have customer acquisition for
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2DOL. When you put a piggyback on there with a bump
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sale, an upsell and a bump offer, your average customer order
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comes up depending upon what they buy on the back end of that. And you
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actually can afford to market your book and bring people into
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your world and be able to scale your message. But you can't do it for
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$2 on a book royalty. It's impossible. Literally lose money. Much
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more challenging. Her initial question was me, can you help me with the
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Facebook ad part of it? I'm not sure if I optimized enough. I'm like, what
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else are you selling? Nothing, just the book. Well, there's our first problem.
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But you're absolutely losing money if you, especially if you have a Facebook ad
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agency. I mean, you're going in the rears trying to sell books for sure.
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So yeah, it's tough. It's so tough. You touched on some of the components
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of a high converting book funnel. So go through each step and the
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way y'all like to set these up. So with our book funnels, what we
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like to do is sell the book along with a
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series of bonuses. When you go to Amazon, you just get the
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book. But if you sell it on your own and you sell it with bonuses,
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all of a sudden you've turned it an offer that is unlike
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anything else you can get elsewhere. Now that it's this unique
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offer with these bonuses, a lot of people actually buy the book
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because of the bonuses. We like to offer a good three
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to Five bonuses along with the book. After that,
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we offer what's called a bump offer is generally it's
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like an impulse buy for the reader. It's something that
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complements the book. It's something that the
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reader, like, really wants to know the answer to
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quickly. And it's something that's generally juicy
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for the reader. And then after the bump offer, we
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have the upsell offer, which tend to be
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maybe one or two sections of the book. We generally don't do
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the full sections of the book because that's what we would consider to be
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the core offer. Maybe your signature program, and that would come
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later, but one or two sections of the book, turn that into something
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that you can actually implement, and that will be a really
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good upsell offer. That's generally what a book funnel
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contains. Sometimes it contains a downsell, which is maybe a
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payment plan of the upsell offer. And readers love this because
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even if they order their book on Amazon, it's going to take a day or
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two for them to get the book. They can immediately dive into the message
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of the book right away with those bonuses with the upsells with the bumps,
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they can get in there and start digging in right away. Then the book comes
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and it only supports. Supports more of what they're already learning, right?
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So they're already into it and they're excited about. They're on that page. They want
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to buy that book, they want to fix that problem. So you give them tools
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right away, which they love. So some of the bonuses that you're talking about
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describe some of those. As far as what are you finding that's working really well
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right now. It can be anything from like a cheat sheet, a
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checklist. It could be a questionnaire. It's
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generally, it depends on the book. But if your
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book kind of maybe helps them create new
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habits, it can be like a checklist of habits or
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a reminder sheet of habits. It can
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be. It could be free chapters. It could be additional books. It could be.
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I mean, there's a lot of things. I mean, some of these authors we have,
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like, have 20 books, and they're not doing anything with them. So it's like, hey,
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here's a second book for free right now if you want to get going. A
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lot of them are in the same vein as the first book. So it's like
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you just offer it up in a PDF and it's super easy for. For something
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like that. So a lot of different things can. Can be available for them. What
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was the. Some of the ones Susan just Did. She had some very cool ones.
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They're basically cheat sheets and checklists. And some of the things
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I like just for building lists that can be very complimentary are the
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cheat sheets. Like I love those and reports. And I love those two things
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in particular because when I'm building lists, if I'm giving a cheat sheet
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away for a lead magnet, it flips the value. So when people
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opt into something, there's always a perceived consumption of time, right? So if
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I'm going to read a report or I'm going to watch a video or whatever,
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like it's going to require me to spend X number of time consuming that a
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cheat sheet completely flips that one. They're super easy to create. Like
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super easy. And then the other thing is that the perceived value is it saves
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them time because now they don't have to figure out the steps. Like here are
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the steps to do whatever. So I love cheat sheets and reports. Those are my
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two favorite things to give away as bonuses or just reports are great because
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you can lead people through them to the next phase. Like they hang around hard
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drives forever. I was watching a video from this author.
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She was driving people to a video series that she had totally
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loved it, but she gave a report after the opt in.
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So I opt in for the videos. There's another report there. I go to save
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it on my hard drive and there's already a folder with her name on it.
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I'm like, whoa, what is this, right? I opened the folder, there's a report from
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2016 in there. I'm like, oh my gosh, now I've just found an old friend.
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Like it's not like connecting with somebody new. Like, I've already known this one for
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a while. Some of the advantages of reports like, so you mentioned bump
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offers. Talk about those a little bit more. Purpose of a bump offer
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is to really enhance the experience of the
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book. It's generally just something that's
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super juicy about the book. So the bump offer literally just gets
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you into the core of the message quicker. It helps
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jumpstart the reader's way to access the information a
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lot quicker. It could be a deep dive into any one chapter. It could
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be, could be an. It could be. It could even be a video series
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that has deeper information or more additional information. It gives you more
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information. It goes deeper, it goes wider. It
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just gives you more information than the one dimensional book itself.
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A lot of times it's video courses. Sometimes it's can be a
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takeout. There's just so many different Ways to enhance with a bump offer, but you
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want to make it less one dimensional than just a book. So we've got our
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offer, we know our audience. And so where does sales copy play a role
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in this? So now we've got to present these offers. So talk about
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sales copy and the role it plays within the book funnel. So the
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secret sauce of a truly high, highly converting
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book funnel is doing what we do is called a deep
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discovery survey. And the importance in that is. And it
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comes through Ryan Levesque's world of the ask method.
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And Tabitha was the first person certified the ask method. We were both in the
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coaching program there. We spent tens of thousands of dollars, hundreds of
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thousands of dol dollars being involved in that. And the reason is, is that
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most people think they know their audience. They
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assume they know their audience. And they may very well know their audience,
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but they may not know specifically what buckets
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each of those people fall in, what segments they are. Let's say, for
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instance, what's the biggest challenge when it comes to starting a yoga practice?
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Well, there's going to be a lot of different reasons. One may say I'm too,
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it's too new agey. Another one may say I'm not flexible enough. Another person may
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say I don't have the time. There's a lot of different buc that someone
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could say when they're starting a yoga practice. But what we tend to do as
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authors is we tend to write one email to everybody. The reason someone
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may not be buying your product or your book could have a lot of different
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reasons. So the first piece of this piece coming to your
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sales copy is to understand what pain points everyone's in. The second
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area for this, which is actually more important, is that
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if we get 250 responses on a deep discovery
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survey, that means we got 50 responses in every single
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bucket. Okay, so now we have collectively
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52, 3, 4, 5 paragraphs of
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each person in each bucket. We literally
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know what words they use, what phrases they use, how
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they are talking about their pain in that. So we actually collectively
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use that and regurgitate that back to the mirror, that back to them. So that
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when our email sequences hit, they literally are the same words they've
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used collectively. And so they say, oh my God, how do they know us so
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well? It's because we asked, we did compassionate marketing. We were, we
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weren't just assuming. We were asked. And we got our content back, we got our
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language back, we got our sales copy back. So the sales copy is
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derived from the deep discovery Survey. And it's spot
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on every time because we have to have a statistical significant amount of
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numbers to make it worth doing. And that's 250 responses.
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So we know without a doubt the buckets and the language
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that's super powerful. In the past, like a lot of the work I've
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done for customer acquisition or looking at Facebook ads or
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whatever is just fixing the targeting. Like if you go in and just adjust the
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targeting, things start working better. That's one aspect. But just diving
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into different segments of people. So many people, as you said, they think
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they know their customer, but most of them, there's a lot more they can learn.
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I'll just leave it at that. But that's what drives so much of your
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success. And if you don't ask, you don't know. It's like people build products
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all the time, they write books all the time, they, they build businesses all the
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time without actually knowing if the market actually wants it.
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So the first thing you should do in any business, whether you're writing a book
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or you're building a back end product for a book, is to ask. And once
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you ask, you're going to find out so much you didn't know. We have an
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email going out tomorrow asking what, what content do you guys want
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to know about more about what can we talk about more that you're interested in?
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And literally we're doing a deep discovery survey to our audience in real
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time because we want to know what they really want to hear about. We can
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write anything, but what do you want to hear about? Yep, it's perfect. It's
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super smart because it's tapping into your audience's wants and needs
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and desires and then you're just giving it back to them. So. Yeah, and it
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creates a way to engage them involved, it gets them invested. Hey, they asked what
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they wanted, now we gave it to them. Like, thank you. Like, we're not just
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talking to them, we're asking, we're having a conversation. If you look at the first
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step of any marketing campaign, it's always the market research. If you look at
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today like we get so much of the secondary research. But what I love about
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what you guys are doing is like primary research. Like you're going after your own
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list and saying, hey, tell me more about what you want. I mean, now you
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can serve them even better. Which that's ultimately what we're doing. So yeah.
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Thank you. Super good. If authors are still struggling with their sales
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copy. Right. You've done the research, how can they use that. To
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turn that into sales letters. How can they use it to turning into the different
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aspects? Because if you think about all the different areas that a book funnel
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needs copy, like, what are they? Let's just. Let's start with that. Like, let's talk
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about the book. Why is someone buying your book? They're
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not buying your book because they want to read the book. They're buying the
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book because they want to fix a problem. And so once you
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get the survey information back, you've got
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all the language that you need to talk about the problems. So the
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sales copy, what you're doing is you're mirroring back the language that they
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use to talk about their problems, and then you're talking about how the book
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can help solve those problems. And that's all sales
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copy is. So some of those areas that that resides is on the
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landing page in the video script copy on the
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video on the secondary pages. That would be for the
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bump or the upsell or the downsell on the initial
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emails. If you're doing an affiliate offer, you're going out to someone and
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you have to have copies that would be there. So there are a number of
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places that the copy can be used and will be used throughout the process,
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just through different lenses. If we're talking about driving traffic, so what are some of
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the best ways y'all found to drive traffic? Now we've got our book funnel set
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up, but now we got to get eyeballs on it, right? The best way
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to drive consistent book sales. In order to drive
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consistent book sales, you need a consistent traffic source. The
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best way to find a consistent traffic source is
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searchable traffic. What are our search engines? Number one
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is Google. Number two is YouTube. If you think
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about those two search engines, one of the best
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ways to get onto Google is actually
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through online magazine. So if you were to
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create a guest column, say it's a weekly column or a monthly column,
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and you write articles on an online magazine that already
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gets millions of views, first of all, you've got people
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that subscribe to that online magazine already. They go
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onto the online magazine. They're searching for articles already.
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So you've got searchable traffic within the online magazine. And then if
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the article is good enough, Google will notice and will pick that
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up and turn it onto the first page of the certain
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keywords for that article. And so now you've
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got Google traffic searching for that exact
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article. And the more articles that you put out there,
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the more this can happen. So it's a compounding effect
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with one of our clients, she does a weekly column
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on Psychology Today, and she started her first
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article in 2021. And I literally just looked this up
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the other day. That One article gets
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270 views a month. Still, it's
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on the front page of Google for five different keywords.
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So as long as your articles are problem
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specific, they're keyword specific. You can
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get traffic source that's continuous just by doing online articles.
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You can do the same thing with YouTube if you prefer doing videos
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instead of articles, because YouTube videos, if
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they're done really well, they'll actually get on to
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Google as well because Google owns YouTube. So you've
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got search traffic from YouTube and search traffic from Google with Dr.
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Janice Web, who Tabitha was just talking about. The article drops on Psychology
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Today the next day, or, you know, the same day. Then Janice puts it back
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out to her list. Hey, my article just dropped on Psychology Day. Check it out,
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right? Then she puts it out to her feeds, right? So all her social media
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feeds, right? Then they start sharing it and liking it. So it starts to expand
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over here. Then they drive them back. Psychology Day, Psychology
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Day. Super happy with her because she got 200,000 email addresses. But then
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they stick it out onto their social media feeds and they start sharing. They
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have millions on. On Facebook and Twitter. And so it just becomes this
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mushrooming effect that everyone's continuing to repurpose that content,
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and that's just driving it up and which we didn't mention, is that it'll get
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put up on the. As the number one or top five articles on Psychology
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Today on their homep. So then that starts driving people because she's hit
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the number one on the. On the main page a month. So it's just this
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mushrooming effect that because you keep repurposing it and hitting new
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people that haven't seen it, and they keep sharing it. And it's like, I mean,
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with 200,000 on her list, that list got built from 1500 people to
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200,000. Those are big numbers. Those start to happen fast. And a lot of our
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clients do that. So the platform itself likes it, right?
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Psychology Today. Because they're getting traffic back to them. And the reason
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all this is so important at the end of the day to your question, Charles,
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is that you're literally one click away from being in your world.
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In the byline at the bottom, you want to know more about childhood emotional collect
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or buy my book, Click here. You're watching the TV show or Oprah
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Dr. Phil. You're on a radio show or A podcast. A lot of times people
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are listening to that in their car, or they're away from their computer, or they're
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not. And they literally are not going to go find their computer and try to
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figure out where that page is and get on that. So I think it's really
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important to know that when you have someone's attention, it's best to
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get them into your world. And that's the quickest way through these online columns to
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get them there, because otherwise you're going to lose a lot of them. It's smart.
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It's so smart. If you think back 10, 15 years ago, do you guys remember
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ezinearticles? Like, it used to be this site called Easing Articles, where you could
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go. And people are trying to get you to use their articles for newsletters or
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share it online. And a little bit different, but similar, very similar, people
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there are trying to get you to. So people would link to them, grab them,
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use them all kinds of ways. It still works. I love it because it's
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these old strategies that are new again and people are just
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discovering. It's like every five years or so, there's a rebirth of
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newsletters. They're like this new thing called newsletters. I'm like, wait a minute. Go back
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to 2000. Go back to 1950.
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Yeah, right. It's great, but it's like new generations come along, they discover
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it, then it's like a new thing. And you're like, oh, my gosh. Like, anyway,
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it's phenomenal. Love it. So with the busyness of people and they're in being
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so scattered, and they have all these demands and they have all these stresses, and
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they have all these things they have to do. Like, you have one split
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second to have them into your world, and if you don't get them, they're
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gone. I mean, they may never show up in your world again. So that's. The
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conversion factor is so high. And every one of her articles is about the same
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thing, right? It's all about childhood emotional neglect. So whatever that is,
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you're hitting a pain point and they want to fix it, and they're one
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click away. And then they're in your world. And now you run the narrative and
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you can talk to them and they're, you know, you have a relationship with them.
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There's a mistake that I think a lot of authors make
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with this in that they will do an article
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or even a social media post that
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ends with buy my book. But instead of it going to a book
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funnel, it goes to Amazon you actually lose
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customers and you don't ever get the email address
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when you send people to Amazon. And that's
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actually what Janiece was doing before she started working
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with us is that she had an online column that
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that time that was with Psych Central and she was sending people to
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her Amazon page. She had a list of
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1500 people and she wasn't building her list and
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she wasn't producing book sales. And the one switch
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of saying, instead of going to Amazon, go to my book funnel, she's
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able to build her email list, actually get more book
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sales along the way. And now that she had their
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emails, she's able to write emails that go towards
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her programs and other products along the way. So she was able to
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build a six figure business just by making that one
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switch. And instead of saying, hey, go to Amazon, she
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says, hey, go to my book funnel. And the book ended up selling over 300,000
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copies after it was five years old and a backlist title and became
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David's number one all time best selling book in all categories
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of all time for the last 15 years. And what we love the most was
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that it outsold all the top digital marketers. Their books.
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The Tabitha studied underneath, which was Jeff Walker, Brendan Burchard and
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Russell Brunson. And he had two of his books on there and they all use
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book funnels. Tabitha's book with Janiece actually sold and I was the
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agent on that book. That book did 300,000 after it literally
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was out of every bookstore five years. And that's when Tabitha started working
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with it and then it just took off. So even backlist titles can be absolutely
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resurrected if they're properly marketed and have a structure,
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a framework or a funnel. Right. So the other thing about that, when you're leveraging
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other people's audience that they already have built, like I love it. Like even
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today that's still my favorite strategy of everything I've done
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to build a list. Like it totally works. Like if they've already have an audience,
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just you're leveraging that audience, providing value. But then what's the next
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step? Whether it's an article or. I did a very similar strategy.
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It was a lot of moms sharing about their experience. They were
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sending blog posts in. And so I just took and used each blog
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post, put two calls to action within that blog post. But we would email
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those moms, hey, we're going to feature your article. And so they would share
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it all on social media. So every article we did went viral. Like you're
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saying, but as they were driving traffic to that article, then there was two opt
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ins for them to opt in for. I can't remember what report we use at
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that point, but again, we built like a huge list just off of that one
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strategy. All the moms that were on there were super engaged in
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sharing their articles. They were the ones reading the newsletter. Totally works. And
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it's just leveraging resources like what do we have available or who else has
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an audience that can access. And it's so much easier just because
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they built so much traffic on that site. And then as she's writing more
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and more articles, she's becoming more and more of authority on that site, also
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building her following, right? So one article, not so much, but,
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but once you start accumulating a bunch like that speaks to itself.
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And these platforms are looking for really high quality writing.
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And why these book funnels are so beneficial to the authors is if
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you roll up your sleeves and you built this once, you literally
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are doing exactly what you want to do as an author. You're writing. You write
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a column a week, that's it. You're not running around here posting on Facebook
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and going to Twitter and putting a picture up on Instagram and running around over
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here shooting a video for YouTube. You do one article a week, it hits the
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byline, it hits your funnel. And everything else is evergreen. It's
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all automated. So it just takes away all of this busy work
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and craziness and all of that stuff that usually these authors are doing is pointing
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nowhere. It's to an opt in. But then they don't even have an email sequence
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to follow it up or any back end program. So build this
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infrastructure once and then just write an article once a week. That's it.
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Your business is done. And you're a writer, right? You love writing and you love
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writing about your topic. So it really streamlines the process,
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the business process of being an author. The other thing I like
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about this is I used to build funnels out many, many years ago,
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from start to finish, right? And then it occurred to me, like at that time
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we were, we were mostly using Facebook to drive traffic to the
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00:26:34,842 --> 00:26:38,482
funnels, okay? And it occurred to me, like, as I'm doing this, like I'm going
441
00:26:38,506 --> 00:26:42,018
to the landing page, optimizing it, which we can talk about later, but then I'm
442
00:26:42,034 --> 00:26:45,122
going to the first offer, then I've got to optimize that. And then I got
443
00:26:45,146 --> 00:26:48,066
the bright idea, like, why don't we just put up a landing page, drive traffic
444
00:26:48,098 --> 00:26:51,908
to this thing, I can be building that list, engaging people while we're getting that
445
00:26:51,964 --> 00:26:55,332
next offer up. So we didn't have to put this whole thing together. I was
446
00:26:55,356 --> 00:26:58,244
able to work with so many more people when I got this idea, like, are
447
00:26:58,252 --> 00:27:01,508
you kidding me? Like, now I can have people at different stages as we're building
448
00:27:01,564 --> 00:27:05,252
out different products, like setting all this up, like. But I love it because you
449
00:27:05,276 --> 00:27:08,660
can take that book and you can leverage it into these other courses and then
450
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:12,388
you can put these pieces together. We can build them in stages and then
451
00:27:12,444 --> 00:27:16,260
keep adding to the funnel and our offers. And so that does book
452
00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:19,916
funnels for people who are still writing their book. Because that deep discovery
453
00:27:19,948 --> 00:27:23,452
survey extracts out so much information, so much
454
00:27:23,476 --> 00:27:27,260
data, so much language that they didn't know existed that now
455
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:30,796
they actually put in the books. And so when the book comes out, it's
456
00:27:30,828 --> 00:27:34,540
already been asked, right? We already know where they
457
00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:37,852
are even more. So when they read the book, they're like, oh, my God, these
458
00:27:37,876 --> 00:27:40,220
guys know me so well. How do they know me so well? It's because we
459
00:27:40,260 --> 00:27:44,076
asked. And so we see it even in the development or the finishing
460
00:27:44,108 --> 00:27:47,422
of a book to help help with Morgan James and publishing these days, you can
461
00:27:47,446 --> 00:27:50,062
get your book out in three months and it can be in the stores in
462
00:27:50,086 --> 00:27:53,502
nine months. So the window is really closed when you start working with
463
00:27:53,526 --> 00:27:57,166
hybrid and self publishing models versus traditional publishing. So it's
464
00:27:57,198 --> 00:28:01,038
fascinating. So what are some of the best ways to add calls to
465
00:28:01,094 --> 00:28:04,334
action within the book to start with, so we can take people off of the
466
00:28:04,342 --> 00:28:07,566
book into our funnel? So what are some of the ways we can do that?
467
00:28:07,718 --> 00:28:11,342
Once you figured out what your book bonuses are going to
468
00:28:11,366 --> 00:28:14,702
be, you can easily add some calls to action
469
00:28:14,806 --> 00:28:18,208
towards. I would even suggest front of the book to
470
00:28:18,264 --> 00:28:21,920
say, hey, if you'd like more information, you can get these
471
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,760
free bonuses that way when people go
472
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,456
to Amazon or Barnes and noble.com and they
473
00:28:29,528 --> 00:28:33,280
look at the preview of your book, they can actually see that at that point,
474
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,640
they don't necessarily even have to buy the book in order to get onto your
475
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,432
email list. And then they realize, hey, the book's only $10, it's
476
00:28:40,496 --> 00:28:44,192
15 here, and it's free shipping. Right? So. And I get all these bonuses,
477
00:28:44,256 --> 00:28:47,164
so why would I just buy it? You're seeing a lot more people want to
478
00:28:47,172 --> 00:28:50,780
buy locally and from small businesses and the author themselves.
479
00:28:50,860 --> 00:28:54,668
So that's trending really back towards the author. So these book funnels
480
00:28:54,684 --> 00:28:57,900
work really well for people in that respect. One of the authors I was working
481
00:28:57,940 --> 00:29:01,612
with wanted me to run straight to Amazon. This was, gosh, probably 10 years
482
00:29:01,636 --> 00:29:05,068
ago at least. But anyway, 10 years ago, we'll say. And
483
00:29:05,124 --> 00:29:08,716
so she wanted me to use Facebook to drive straight to her
484
00:29:08,788 --> 00:29:12,492
Amazon page. And I fought her on it. Like, we had built a significant
485
00:29:12,596 --> 00:29:15,692
list at this point that was driving a lot of her revenue. She was doing
486
00:29:15,716 --> 00:29:18,802
very, very well. And she was like, other authors are doing this. I'm like, who
487
00:29:18,826 --> 00:29:22,290
cares what other authors are doing? This is what we're doing. And so we go
488
00:29:22,330 --> 00:29:25,346
back and forth. And I was like, finally I agreed. I was like, I'll agree
489
00:29:25,418 --> 00:29:29,202
under this one condition. And so the first three pages, you could look
490
00:29:29,226 --> 00:29:32,114
in the back of the book and Amazon would show you the table of contents
491
00:29:32,162 --> 00:29:34,818
in the first three pages. I was like, so we're going to put a lead
492
00:29:34,874 --> 00:29:37,810
magnet. So that's the only way I'm going to do this. So they can look
493
00:29:37,850 --> 00:29:40,802
in there. And on the third page there's a call to action to send them
494
00:29:40,826 --> 00:29:43,682
to your site so they don't even need to buy the book to build that
495
00:29:43,706 --> 00:29:46,974
list. And so that was the only compromise I would make with her on this.
496
00:29:47,082 --> 00:29:50,742
It was like, if we could do that, because I'm not sending traffic to
497
00:29:50,766 --> 00:29:54,214
Amazon for them to build their business, use it to build yours. And so
498
00:29:54,302 --> 00:29:57,670
totally agree with you. But now Amazon even wisened up to that
499
00:29:57,790 --> 00:30:00,966
because now you don't know where they're going to show you. When you look inside
500
00:30:00,998 --> 00:30:04,646
the book, it's like random. So that doesn't even work today. But anyway, it worked
501
00:30:04,678 --> 00:30:08,198
for a while. What David does these days at
502
00:30:08,254 --> 00:30:12,022
Morgan James Publishing, which I think is so remarkable, is that he's got that
503
00:30:12,046 --> 00:30:14,950
point of purchase and actually that little QR code on the back of the book
504
00:30:14,990 --> 00:30:18,172
that basically says, hey, if you show us that you bought the book and show
505
00:30:18,196 --> 00:30:21,260
us the receipt, we'll give you a free E copy. It's no sweat off his
506
00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:24,428
back to give the E copy. But what is he doing? He's getting the email
507
00:30:24,484 --> 00:30:27,372
address for the person who bought the book and he's getting it not only for
508
00:30:27,396 --> 00:30:30,972
Morgan James Publishing, but he's getting it for the author. So there's a lot of
509
00:30:30,996 --> 00:30:34,828
people that are really akin to understanding, oh, we gotta migrate these people
510
00:30:34,884 --> 00:30:38,700
over. And that works out really, really well. Yeah, that's what David has.
511
00:30:38,740 --> 00:30:42,188
He's if you buy the book, he says, give a digital one away for free,
512
00:30:42,244 --> 00:30:45,754
is buy one, get one. And so anyway, it totally works. It.
513
00:30:45,842 --> 00:30:49,626
Let's talk about optimizing some of these Pages. So we, I mentioned
514
00:30:49,658 --> 00:30:53,354
this earlier. So again, another skill to optimize
515
00:30:53,402 --> 00:30:57,162
a page. So talk about that. Because most campaigns don't come out of the
516
00:30:57,186 --> 00:31:01,002
gate blazing hot. It takes time to optimize those. So talk
517
00:31:01,026 --> 00:31:04,698
about that experience. Yeah, so what I actually like
518
00:31:04,754 --> 00:31:08,362
to optimize for the most is the bump offer.
519
00:31:08,466 --> 00:31:12,170
And the reason for that is that you've got the small little blurb of
520
00:31:12,210 --> 00:31:15,882
maybe a paragraph or two really small paragraphs in order to
521
00:31:15,906 --> 00:31:19,622
sell one thing. So you don't know exactly what it
522
00:31:19,646 --> 00:31:23,270
is that's going to trigger that impulse buy. So
523
00:31:23,310 --> 00:31:26,710
that's really the first thing that I like to optimize for. And
524
00:31:26,750 --> 00:31:30,486
then what I've generally found is
525
00:31:30,638 --> 00:31:34,422
yes, you can optimize for book sales,
526
00:31:34,566 --> 00:31:37,638
you can optimize for the upsell,
527
00:31:37,814 --> 00:31:40,930
but what's actually a better use of your time
528
00:31:41,230 --> 00:31:44,742
is getting the people that have already bought the
529
00:31:44,766 --> 00:31:48,250
book working on the back end so that they can go
530
00:31:48,290 --> 00:31:52,026
into programs because that's where the real money is.
531
00:31:52,178 --> 00:31:55,786
Yes, you can optimize. And if
532
00:31:55,858 --> 00:31:59,530
you have one thing to do next, I'd say work on those
533
00:31:59,570 --> 00:32:02,970
back end programs. And don't you do a lot of split testing too? You can
534
00:32:03,010 --> 00:32:06,314
do a lot of split testing? Yes. Yeah. So you can test two different
535
00:32:06,402 --> 00:32:10,090
algorithms or shoot two different marketing copies and give this one 100
536
00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:13,018
views and give this one 100 views and see which one's converting more. So split
537
00:32:13,034 --> 00:32:16,026
testing I think is always really a good way to look at that. And today's
538
00:32:16,058 --> 00:32:19,286
tech, you can tell ex exactly where people fall off and where people keep going
539
00:32:19,358 --> 00:32:22,582
and you're going to know pretty quickly, okay, well that copy's not working or that
540
00:32:22,606 --> 00:32:26,454
video is not working or that image is not working. So that's the
541
00:32:26,462 --> 00:32:30,262
way I optimize. Most of the pages is through testing till we get the one
542
00:32:30,286 --> 00:32:33,622
that's converting the highest. And then a lot of times it's like when you do
543
00:32:33,646 --> 00:32:37,206
your projections 1%, 3%, 5% back in the old direct mail
544
00:32:37,238 --> 00:32:40,998
days, here's what we anticipate. But then when you actually, once you actually
545
00:32:41,054 --> 00:32:44,738
hit send, like all bets are off. Like, like it's all projections for a reason.
546
00:32:44,794 --> 00:32:48,434
Like until you get those numbers in, like, like nothing happens until you
547
00:32:48,442 --> 00:32:52,002
hit send. If it's an email campaign that is. And that's why we have a
548
00:32:52,026 --> 00:32:55,602
lot of follow up emails the tablet has created for the book funnel
549
00:32:55,666 --> 00:32:59,394
that like are abandoned cart emails or downsell
550
00:32:59,442 --> 00:33:03,026
emails or upsell emails. So that if really when you think about these things, it's
551
00:33:03,058 --> 00:33:06,258
kind of like a Mouse maze, right. If they go down this way and they
552
00:33:06,314 --> 00:33:08,882
hit the door, then they go this way. If they hit the door, they go
553
00:33:08,906 --> 00:33:12,580
this way. Well, or it's a yes and no tree. If they say yes here,
554
00:33:12,620 --> 00:33:15,652
they go here. If it's no there. And you could really figure out where you
555
00:33:15,676 --> 00:33:18,692
get stuck in the maze and try to help them open those doors to go
556
00:33:18,716 --> 00:33:22,292
to the next level with all kinds of different things. But marketing copy, I think
557
00:33:22,316 --> 00:33:25,796
is, is critical. And you. And again, that's derived from the deep
558
00:33:25,828 --> 00:33:29,572
discovery survey. So yeah, I love Brian Kurtz. He's like, copy is the
559
00:33:29,596 --> 00:33:32,240
least important thing until it's not. Right.
560
00:33:33,580 --> 00:33:37,148
Say audience offer for copy. Right. Copies always
561
00:33:37,204 --> 00:33:40,860
last until it's not. And then that's when you need it. And so
562
00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:44,604
anyway, we touched on this earlier too, but how does a book funnel help increase
563
00:33:44,692 --> 00:33:48,508
average customer value? So talk about that. Well, so
564
00:33:48,564 --> 00:33:52,332
if you're just selling a book, you're getting a two dollar royalty. So
565
00:33:52,356 --> 00:33:56,092
your average customer value is two dollars. If you're doing
566
00:33:56,116 --> 00:33:59,932
a book funnel, then you have the opportunity to sell a
567
00:33:59,956 --> 00:34:03,606
lot more things. So your average customer value
568
00:34:03,678 --> 00:34:07,382
is going to go up because there's a certain percentage of people that buy the
569
00:34:07,406 --> 00:34:10,950
book, they're also going to buy the bump offer and buy the upsell or the
570
00:34:10,990 --> 00:34:14,662
downsell. Generally with our book funnels, we like to
571
00:34:14,686 --> 00:34:17,970
have an average customer value of around $50.
572
00:34:18,350 --> 00:34:22,070
That $50 then can go back into
573
00:34:22,190 --> 00:34:26,006
the marketing budget so that the author can now
574
00:34:26,078 --> 00:34:29,926
spend that money to market the book more broadly.
575
00:34:30,038 --> 00:34:33,478
If they don't want to do articles, they can now do
576
00:34:33,534 --> 00:34:37,302
Facebook ads. And so they can pay for their Facebook ads with this
577
00:34:37,406 --> 00:34:41,142
average order value. I might step on my tongue here a bit because
578
00:34:41,166 --> 00:34:44,902
I'm running math in my head, but if four people bought the
579
00:34:44,926 --> 00:34:48,534
bump offer at 50 bucks, say you sold 10 books,
580
00:34:48,582 --> 00:34:51,814
and if four of those people ended up buying the bump offer at 50 bucks,
581
00:34:51,862 --> 00:34:55,558
that's 200 bucks. So if you split that by 10, that's an extra 20
582
00:34:55,614 --> 00:34:59,378
bucks per order. So now instead of $2 a book, you' getting
583
00:34:59,434 --> 00:35:03,154
$22 a book. Now when you add the upsell, if you
584
00:35:03,162 --> 00:35:07,010
get two or three of those right, then those make that average customer order go
585
00:35:07,050 --> 00:35:10,306
up. And so it's all a matter of how many bumps and how many ups.
586
00:35:10,338 --> 00:35:13,602
But whatever that is, you're going to know that pretty quickly. You're going to go
587
00:35:13,626 --> 00:35:16,722
from 2 to 20 and 2 to 40 and 2 to 50. And so it
588
00:35:16,746 --> 00:35:20,082
just makes total sense. Plus, at the end of the day, if you're in the
589
00:35:20,106 --> 00:35:23,794
genre and you're really trying to help people heal, fix
590
00:35:23,842 --> 00:35:27,274
their problems, get over whatever they're working on. These backend
591
00:35:27,322 --> 00:35:30,970
programs are really where the real transformation is going to have help because they have
592
00:35:31,010 --> 00:35:34,330
all of those facets that help change habitual behavior.
593
00:35:34,490 --> 00:35:38,186
It's almost perpetual cycle. I think, like you're delivering more value
594
00:35:38,258 --> 00:35:41,978
that creates a higher customer value. You can use that money for acquisition
595
00:35:42,074 --> 00:35:45,802
to drive more business. We mentioned email. Like the biggest thing
596
00:35:45,826 --> 00:35:49,194
with this is it's driving a list too. So there's a follow up and all
597
00:35:49,202 --> 00:35:52,602
of that. So talk about, talk about the power of the list. That's always been
598
00:35:52,626 --> 00:35:56,250
my focus. Like, like probably the last 20 years. That's what I've done is
599
00:35:56,290 --> 00:35:59,786
built list after list after list. But talk about the power of that,
600
00:35:59,858 --> 00:36:03,658
like how that impacts an author's business. Because this book
601
00:36:03,714 --> 00:36:07,402
funnel allows you to build that faster than a lot of other things that you
602
00:36:07,426 --> 00:36:11,226
can do. So talk about the power of your list. And that's the whole
603
00:36:11,258 --> 00:36:15,066
premise right there. You just said it. One of our favorite online marketers is Jeff
604
00:36:15,098 --> 00:36:18,938
Walker and his book is Launch. And he'll tell you that each email address
605
00:36:18,994 --> 00:36:22,572
is worth $12 to you. Every year it's on the list. Forego the
606
00:36:22,596 --> 00:36:26,076
$2 royalty, get 6x the value.
607
00:36:26,228 --> 00:36:29,660
$12. That's every year it's on the list. So you just
608
00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:33,452
6x your money by breaking even on that book funnel. Because
609
00:36:33,476 --> 00:36:36,444
that's about what you do. When you do a book funnel. It's about 10 bucks,
610
00:36:36,492 --> 00:36:39,932
but cost you about 10 bucks. But you get the name of the reader of
611
00:36:39,956 --> 00:36:42,828
your book, you know they're reading it and you know on the back end, you're
612
00:36:42,844 --> 00:36:46,668
going to make closer to $12 per email. So yeah, why wouldn't
613
00:36:46,684 --> 00:36:50,270
we? 6x every time we can. Plus it's your number one
614
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:53,870
business asset as an author. That list is gold. I mean, you
615
00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:57,470
have 10,000 emails, you got $120,000
616
00:36:57,550 --> 00:37:01,374
business right there, just 10,000. So emails are
617
00:37:01,462 --> 00:37:05,262
a huge asset. And the reason is because you're directly connected to
618
00:37:05,366 --> 00:37:08,942
the people that are entrenched in your message and you can talk to them, you
619
00:37:08,966 --> 00:37:12,574
can control the narrative, you can control how often you write to them.
620
00:37:12,662 --> 00:37:16,494
You have all the control when they sit on Facebook or Twitter or LinkedIn. You
621
00:37:16,502 --> 00:37:20,224
have no control. You don't own those names, you don't have that relationship. So we
622
00:37:20,232 --> 00:37:23,952
love lists. Yep, it's the most powerful thing. Other
623
00:37:23,976 --> 00:37:27,728
than the customer list. I think that's still the most valuable. But other than that
624
00:37:27,784 --> 00:37:31,232
like email lists, like because of follow up, like it's the only channel where we
625
00:37:31,256 --> 00:37:35,056
can follow up and we know they're going to receive it. Everything else it's, we're
626
00:37:35,088 --> 00:37:38,560
relying on either an algorithm or for them to see that content. Whereas if we
627
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,952
send an email to X number of people we know the majority of that is
628
00:37:41,976 --> 00:37:45,280
going to get there. And so that's a power and plus it's so cost
629
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,906
effective. In his book, in Jeff Walker's book Launch, he talks about the
630
00:37:48,978 --> 00:37:52,762
eight emotional triggers or whatever it was, seven emotional triggers. But one of those
631
00:37:52,786 --> 00:37:56,442
triggers is reciprocity. And what he realized was that when you
632
00:37:56,546 --> 00:38:00,282
write really good content, when you give away a lot of free things, when you
633
00:38:00,306 --> 00:38:03,962
really help people, when you just basically give stuff away for free and love them
634
00:38:03,986 --> 00:38:07,722
up and help them in their process, that when you actually do make your
635
00:38:07,746 --> 00:38:11,482
offer, they feel a sense of reciprocity. These guys have been helping me. This
636
00:38:11,506 --> 00:38:14,938
has got to be good. Let me help them. So they come along. But not
637
00:38:14,994 --> 00:38:18,630
selling right out of the gate, really being helpful and giving great content, great
638
00:38:18,670 --> 00:38:22,022
video and people love it because they're like these guys are amazing. They just keep
639
00:38:22,046 --> 00:38:25,190
giving me away free stuff. And so it's a, it's a way to, to really
640
00:38:25,230 --> 00:38:28,966
love people up. And it'll serve you in the long run too. So what's
641
00:38:28,998 --> 00:38:32,486
the most common mistake authors make with the book funnel? These are rapid fire
642
00:38:32,558 --> 00:38:36,214
questions, just quick answers just to end on really fast notes to make
643
00:38:36,222 --> 00:38:39,974
it fun and, and with energy. So biggest mistake authors make in
644
00:38:39,982 --> 00:38:43,798
their book funnel. One, two, three, go. They, they have some other
645
00:38:43,854 --> 00:38:47,510
projects that they did a few years ago and they just put it all together
646
00:38:47,550 --> 00:38:50,134
and say oh I can use this for my bump. Oh, I can use this
647
00:38:50,142 --> 00:38:53,846
for my upsell. It doesn't work that way. You've gotta, you gotta figure
648
00:38:53,878 --> 00:38:57,462
out what exactly your customer wants and then give that to them,
649
00:38:57,566 --> 00:39:01,302
not what you think they want. Okay, what's the weirdest or most unexpected
650
00:39:01,366 --> 00:39:04,130
niche you've seen a book funnel work for? Sh.
651
00:39:05,310 --> 00:39:09,094
What do you think? Well, we are doing a book funnel for a.
652
00:39:09,182 --> 00:39:12,890
A book on the history of inventions. Okay.
653
00:39:13,310 --> 00:39:17,030
It's a complete historical non fiction but
654
00:39:17,070 --> 00:39:20,410
the author works with clients on innov
655
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:24,114
innovating with inventions. And so for people that are
656
00:39:24,122 --> 00:39:27,842
interested in inventions, they'll love the book and then they'll love working with them
657
00:39:27,866 --> 00:39:31,618
afterwards. Usually traditionally do historical or narrative non fiction is
658
00:39:31,674 --> 00:39:34,914
usually prescriptive. So to, to have it become in that it's very cool. But I
659
00:39:34,922 --> 00:39:38,194
mean it makes total Sense. Because he's showing over time
660
00:39:38,362 --> 00:39:41,954
what innovators did to create these huge markets.
661
00:39:42,002 --> 00:39:45,602
Right? So really it was quite brilliant. What's the one word that
662
00:39:45,626 --> 00:39:49,324
describes a successful book funnel? Income. Income.
663
00:39:49,372 --> 00:39:52,764
Love it. The best piece of marketing advice you ever received
664
00:39:52,932 --> 00:39:56,732
was you gotta ask. Yeah, I have to agree or. And
665
00:39:56,756 --> 00:40:00,572
also go online. How about this message comes from your market, not
666
00:40:00,596 --> 00:40:04,240
your mind. It's not one word. All right, that's a phrase.
667
00:40:04,580 --> 00:40:08,364
Guys have a free training on how to 10x your
668
00:40:08,372 --> 00:40:12,092
book sales with a book funnel. Talk about that and how people can get
669
00:40:12,116 --> 00:40:15,932
that. Tabith put together a 40 minute condensed training. It's free. Really
670
00:40:15,956 --> 00:40:19,624
what it does is it tells you the process of why a book funnel
671
00:40:19,672 --> 00:40:23,480
so important. It parallels all businesses. As
672
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,240
an example, when you go to McDonald's, McDonald's loses money
673
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,936
on a Big Mac, but where do they make their money on the large
674
00:40:31,008 --> 00:40:34,680
cokes and fries off the back, right? Same thing with a restaurant. They break
675
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:38,248
even on their entrees, but they make money on the desserts and their drinks. Right?
676
00:40:38,304 --> 00:40:42,056
So every business does this, but we don't think about this as authors.
677
00:40:42,088 --> 00:40:45,528
So she takes you through a journey in this training to explain
678
00:40:45,624 --> 00:40:49,240
why book funnels are so important to the business of an author.
679
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,868
And then at the end of that, we all offer up a free strategy. Call
680
00:40:52,924 --> 00:40:56,532
with us. Just kind of like what we're doing right here. But it's individually and
681
00:40:56,556 --> 00:41:00,004
specific to an authors. Where they are, they fill out an application
682
00:41:00,132 --> 00:41:03,876
online, really quick little application, but we know, lets us know where their websites
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00:41:03,908 --> 00:41:07,620
are, what their book title is, when it was published, those kinds of things, how
684
00:41:07,660 --> 00:41:11,380
many where their social media is, all those things. And then they get the call
685
00:41:11,420 --> 00:41:13,188
with us. That training
686
00:41:13,284 --> 00:41:17,044
resides@monetizeyourbook.com so
687
00:41:17,052 --> 00:41:20,702
that's where it sits. Monetize your book dot com. Fabulous. Well,
688
00:41:20,726 --> 00:41:24,478
thank you both for being here. I appreciate it very much. So enjoyed this
689
00:41:24,534 --> 00:41:28,190
as always. So thank you both. Thank you for having us.
690
00:41:28,310 --> 00:41:31,342
Hey, I enjoy it every time we get a chance to chat. Always enjoy our
691
00:41:31,366 --> 00:41:34,890
conversation. So I love this stuff as much as y'all do. So
692
00:41:35,590 --> 00:41:38,550
keep up your great work and we'll talk soon. Okay? Thank you so much.