WEBVTT
00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:12.880
Hello everybody.
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:15.679
Mark and John.
00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.280
Hi, and welcome to the Spindle, a podcast about seven-inch records.
00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:25.760
I'm Mark.
00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:26.320
I'm John.
00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:31.519
And in each episode, we talk about one seven-inch record, hopefully give you some insight into it that you haven't heard before.
00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:38.079
We both got into music in the 80s and 90s when 7 inches were super important, especially on independent labels, so that's the era we mostly draw from.
00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:41.840
But we sometimes pick some stuff earlier earlier or later than that, too.
00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.039
Either way, we try to keep it short and to the point just like seven inches do.
00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:54.159
So on this episode, we will be talking about the Feelies, uh, 7 Inch Raised Eyebrows, backed with Faset La, released in 1979 on Rough Trade Records.
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:58.159
There's quite a few versions of this, but we're talking specifically about this Rough Trade version.
00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:02.000
Uh it was recorded at Grogkill Studios in Willow, New York.
00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:04.719
The studio's owned by uh Carla Blay and Mike.
00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:05.439
Badass.
00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:08.879
Both written by Glenn Mercer and Bill Million.
00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:10.480
Um millions or millions?
00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:11.040
Millions.
00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:12.239
I think it's millions.
00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:12.959
You got me?
00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:13.439
Yeah.
00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:21.280
Um it was a part of a session that was a four-song demo that Rough Trade offered to release a single from, so Felix picked these two songs out of the four.
00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:28.480
The lineup at the time was Glenn Mercer, Guitar and Vocals, Bill Million, Guitar Vocals, Keith Clayton on bass, and Anton Fear on Drums.
00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:30.799
So this is their very first release.
00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:34.480
But they had been they'd already kind of morphed a couple times before they even did this.
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:41.519
There'd been a band called The Out Kids, I guess, in the 70s, which was Mercer Million and Dave Weckerman, who's one of their percussionists now.
00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:45.680
But he left the band, Keith Clayton came in, and then eventually Anton Fear came in.
00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:58.239
And apparently they they had actually recorded before this, but they didn't like how it went, and they were given more freedom at this new studio, and so they recorded these four songs and then recorded Crazy Rhythms there too.
00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:02.400
Or maybe no, Crazy Rhythms was recorded at Vanguard Studios.
00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:07.760
But anyway, yeah, they re-recorded some of these songs for Crazy Rhythms, their first album, except Raised Eyebrows.
00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:11.039
The A side of this actually went ahead, they just pulled that onto Crazy Rhythms.
00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:14.240
Apparently, they EQ'd it a little bit to make it sound like the rest of the record or something.
00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:28.879
But um so Fosela has this weird history where they were there's this demo version of it, then they recorded it for a single for Orc Records that never came out, and then they record re-recorded it for Crazy Rhythms, which we just sort of figured out today as we were listening to all of the things.
00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:39.120
They I mean, in their way, it's like they they always sound the same, but in reality they rarely play anything the same way twice.
00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:41.199
That's 100% true, yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:46.639
And I mean I think most people like for me at least, and it's probably true of a lot of people who've found out about the feelings.
00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:49.360
I heard crazy rhythms first, so I'm really used to that first Fasela.
00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:53.439
And this one is the the one on Rough Trade is different.
00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:56.879
I mean, from what we just listened to, it's it's the guitar's a little noisier.
00:02:57.039 --> 00:02:57.759
It's gnarlier.
00:02:57.919 --> 00:02:58.159
Yeah.
00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:00.560
It's like both drier and gnarlier.
00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:08.240
Um, a touch slower, though, like not as it's not as jumpy sounding, tougher sounding, I thought.
00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:09.680
You can kind of tell the the Anton Fear influence on this, although I on the orc maybe he's on it too.
00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:12.960
Anyway, the his influence even grows more, I think, on Crazy Rhythms.
00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:14.719
Crazy Rhythms is so percussion oriented.
00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.120
Oh, that's a very that the fossil law on there is very, very kind of around the percussion.
00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:21.519
But but you can hear that Anton fear precision.
00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:21.839
Right.
00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:26.079
Where everything's just locked in and and his drums are very um, you know.
00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:36.879
He took that to the lounge lizards, you know, next, and it's just like it's he's he is somebody because I'm a drummer as well, and and it just um he is an immediately identifiable guy.
00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:37.360
Uh-huh.
00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:42.160
Um it is he does seem to need to move through projects.
00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:42.560
Right.
00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:45.199
Like you're gonna get Anton Feared, uh-huh.
00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:46.240
And it might be okay.
00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:48.560
You'll get a good record out of it, uh-huh, you know.
00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:51.759
But it's it's like he's just he's Anton Fear.
00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:52.240
Right.
00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:54.160
And it's gonna be that way.
00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.600
But what a great drummer.
00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:58.720
Yeah, and he was out of the band by after Crazy Rhythms was a good thing.
00:04:58.879 --> 00:04:59.439
That's what I'm saying.
00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:10.959
It's like, yeah, yeah, partially because like they weren't really that into touring yet or whatever, and he wanted to be active all the time and they were kind of sparse in how much they were doing, and that's they're a pretty tight duo to Mercer.
00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:18.480
Like they are like I don't know whether they're besties or something like that, but as far as like the whole feeling thing, they plainly are utterly locked in on that.
00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:19.120
Totally.
00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:26.879
And it you know, Anton Fear seems like a guy he's like, I want to be in I wanna do uh and be in charge, and they're probably like, Yeah, but you're not.
00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:27.279
Right.
00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:28.879
And we don't feel like playing.
00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:29.519
Uh-huh.
00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:30.560
Yeah.
00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:33.120
So yeah, he's a restless guy.
00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:33.680
Uh-huh.
00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:53.680
Uh one of the interesting things to me about that because the whole crazy rhythms thing and and other begin or early things seem sort of of their own thing, even though they're a kind of a proto-new wave 70s band in New York or whatever, and are kind of part of that movie, though they don't really sound like a ton of other bands, maybe talking heads, but I I don't know.
00:05:54.079 --> 00:06:02.639
Well, I mean, this is where I think it's a shame that the term New Wave has sort of gotten co-opted into something like Flock of Seagulls.
00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:07.439
Um, it's like it was kind of there, it isn't just them.
00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:24.079
There were obviously a lot of people 74, 75, 76, who were sort of picking at the entrails of you know, the pop-baced rock music of the 60s and trying to put something new together because the stuff that was happening sucked, as we've talked about in I don't know how many episodes, because it was a nightmare.
00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.839
And so uh this sounds like another crew like that.
00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:31.199
You know, they just are like, well, what can we do that's interesting to us?
00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:43.040
And that seems different from kind of what's been called punk, or is it proto-punk because they're definitely coming from before that time but are sort of with that movement?
00:06:43.519 --> 00:07:03.680
It's there is it is sort of there's it's an unsatisfying, like as a historian, I'm like, there's gotta be some way we can encapsulate that era, you know, because they really are more like say a paru boo or something that was doing stuff because if we if you heard about them in 76, that means they were doing the two couple years before that, they're in their garage and their bedrooms doing this stuff.
00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:12.000
It's an interesting era because if you you know, we all have access to YouTube and you can see what was going on at that time above the surface.
00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:20.160
Meanwhile, there there's all these kids in bedrooms and dorms and art rooms and stuff just doing their best to sort of undermine that.
00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:20.560
Right.
00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:21.920
Very inspiring still.
00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:28.720
And they didn't even have a framework to hang it on like people did five years later by saying punk.
00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:29.600
They're just doing it.
00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:30.160
Devo.
00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.360
I definitely think the feelies fall in that category for sure.
00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:39.120
Like it's you know, they're they're drinking from the source and they're taking the next step onwards.
00:07:39.759 --> 00:08:08.639
Uh one of the things I thought was cool that that they said a lot of the stuff I know about these songs now is because there's this great version, great episode of uh this podcast called Life of the Record, where Bill and Glenn go through all the songs on Crazy Rhythms, and uh Glenn said right away that this song was was somewhat inspired by her to call my name in terms of the the beginning with all the kind of out-of-control guitars to start with, which I can see it now, and I've never it never occurred to me when I heard it before, but it kind of makes sense, especially in this version, more so than the Crazy Rhythms version, they really are grinding at the guitars like right away.
00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.439
Right, right, you know, which is uh right.
00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:17.759
This one, when you say that, this one definitely has more of the flavor, like the vocals also are more frantic than some of the other ones.
00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:18.240
Yeah.
00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:20.079
And you sort of get more of a feel of that.
00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:21.279
I heard her call my name.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:30.399
A lot of the bands around this time were doing this kind of thing, but it felt they felt like they came out of the gate so already defined to themselves at least.
00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:32.080
You know, they had this style right away.
00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:38.399
Like, I I just feel like crazy rhythms and and even these other versions, even though they're different, there's something like I could never not know that's the feelies.
00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:38.799
Yeah.
00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:40.480
When I hear these records, right, right.
00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.039
We just hear the percussion start up, the drums go start going.
00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:44.320
It doesn't even matter who the drummer is.
00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:46.320
You just hear that going, you're like, oh, it's feelies.
00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:46.480
Yeah.
00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.399
And then the guitar starts ching, ching, ching, ching, you know.
00:08:48.879 --> 00:09:05.039
And and uh, but uh see that's what I'm saying is like when you're not chasing a sound, except for just trying to do something that you can do with the people you're with that sounds interesting to you, you definitely arrive at more innovative places a lot.
00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:05.759
You know.
00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:10.799
Even as they're kind of self-consciously going, like, well, how can we do I Heard Or Call My Name?
00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:13.120
They realize, well, we can't really do I Heard Or Call My Name.
00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:20.159
So it's like we're gonna do our little suburban rat boy version of it, you know, which is great.
00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:28.559
Like it's like gives it a whole new feeling than the original, which is almost like overamped RB, more than it's like rock.
00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:30.559
It's an interesting follow-on from that.
00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:31.440
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:38.480
Yeah, that that definitely after hearing all three of the versions, the rough trade one definitely shows that the most, don't you think?
00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:39.440
Yeah, for sure.
00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:40.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:58.240
The what's really actually the A-side, although I don't think anybody would ever think of Fosse Law as not the single from that time period, but Raised Eyebrows, apparently it's funny what you said about Anton Fear because they claim in that Life of the Record interview, G Glenn came up with the idea for the drums in this part and had to show Anton what he wanted him to do.
00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:09.039
And and it might it sounds like it even might have taken a little effort because he wanted a sound of drums, at least what Bill thinks what he wanted was like almost like random, like it was like fireworks or something, more than a beat.
00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:10.639
That kind of dun dun dun.
00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:16.159
Those uh you're talking the snare rolls towards the like those extra kind of well, not like the beginning of raised eyebrows.
00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:16.960
Oh the beginning.
00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:17.679
Oh, raised eyebrows.
00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:18.080
I'm sorry, sorry.
00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:18.960
Yeah, no, no, no problem.
00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:33.600
You know, so like like when it comes on, it's like it sounds almost like he's slowly going through and and he wanted it to sound like almost just like it's popping randomly, and then the guitar will come in and make it coalesce around it, which it really does really well, I think.
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:34.720
That's so hilarious.
00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:42.240
And the long line of non-drummers trying like trying to get drummers to do things that are probably completely wrong.
00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:42.960
Right, right.
00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:52.320
You know, and uh Anton, I will say some people uh would be fine with that, you know, because maybe they have more of a background in abstraction.
00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:55.519
Anton Fear is uh that guy's a metronome.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:55.840
Right.
00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:57.360
And he's a you know what I mean?
00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:04.240
So he would definitely, if you're trying to get him to go across bars or uh come up with something as you would say, you know, random, right?
00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:06.639
He's like, but there is no random, there's only a grid.
00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:07.679
What do you mean random?
00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:09.279
What part of the grid do you want him on?
00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:09.600
Right.
00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:11.360
And that's not unreasonable either.
00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:16.799
But a but a guitarist is just gonna go, you know, here and then here, like that, and then you know, there.
00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:17.200
Uh-huh.
00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:23.440
And uh so he definitely seems like a player who would be like, No, we're we're writing this down or something.
00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:26.960
So but he got it, obviously, and it sounds fantastic.
00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:31.039
I mean, people most drummers would be willing to be like, oh, what do you want there?
00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:32.399
You know, let's make it work.
00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:43.679
And it would be hard to, you know, especially if you're talking, like trying to get that random feel, you'd probably have to try that a few times to really get it to feel any drummer would because you're all sitting there counting, you know.
00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:51.120
So to try and get them to make it sound like it's not on the beat is it's very hard for most drummers.
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:37.360
But what I love about it too is like it does I never really thought of it as sounding random, but once I heard Bill saying that, I'm like, when you listen, you can kind of hear that, but then once the music comes in, you realize he's still figuring a pattern out.
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:44.240
Like it because it starts to fit with the pattern of the guitar is really syncop, yeah, it's like uh uh pre-syncopation, you can call it kind of right, right.
00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:52.879
You play the syncopated part first, which is a big, which is a really cool rhythmic trick because it's like it kind of like you're saying, it flips the beat a little bit.
00:13:53.120 --> 00:14:01.840
So you forget where the one is if you hear the syncopation, and so then that syncopation goes on for a second, and then the actual one comes through and you're like, oh.
00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:14.639
And that's a it's the kind of an you know, sort of a sleight of hand that gives a little that really does up the interest, and especially with them, it just makes that headlong even more that like off to the races.
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:15.279
Right, you know?
00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:15.600
Uh-huh.
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:19.039
It's like the king could barely even uh wait to get it going.
00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:29.919
So it's a fun the well the other funny story in that podcast that's kind of uh goofy, but I love it, is that when they first put it together, like, oh man, when this when we play this song, it's probably gonna raise some eyebrows.
00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:30.240
Yeah.
00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:32.480
That's why they called it.
00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:34.559
Uh see, that's what I'm saying.
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:42.559
Like they're so their own and knowing they look like they uh to me, career-wise, it looks like they've tried to nurture that.
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:51.840
That they realized that was actually a strength of theirs, and that trying to become big stars right off the bat meant that they would dilute what they were really good at.
00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:52.480
Right.
00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:55.120
And that um that's very sensible.
00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:01.759
And then when they were older and could probably maintain it better, they then were like, Okay, well, let's give it a shot, see if we can do it.
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.559
And when it seemed to try and burst that bubble, they're like, No, we're good.
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:04.960
Right.
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:08.159
You know, and and I think that's just smart.
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:17.919
Like it's it's not even I mean, it's just a smart way to approach the business instead of getting sucked under right away and being like, Oh, I'm gonna go as far as fast as I can right off the bat.
00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:21.200
And instead, it's like, well, do to where?
00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:22.159
Why?
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:23.039
For what?
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:23.600
You know.
00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:34.639
They ended up, you know, I mean, taking that approach ended up being way more of a license for longevity than other like the no wave band, the other no wave bands and stuff like that.
00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.279
Those approaches were all just like set fire to it, you know.
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:38.799
Let's do it all now.
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:42.720
And uh it's it's a cool feature of them.
00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:47.360
Like it always they've always seemed to maintain a certain amount of groundedness and humanity.
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:49.759
It sort of keeps them being a weird local band in a way.
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:50.639
Yeah, totally.
00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:52.080
They do feel still feel like an account.
00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:53.279
Right, right, they're a band.
00:15:53.440 --> 00:16:00.080
Yeah, yeah, they don't seem they ever like they ever were uh tried like made that jump from while we're no longer from New Jersey, you know.
00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:07.519
Which is funny because so their history is after the single, they make crazy rhythms and it comes out on Stiff in England, which is a weird, kind of a weird pairing.
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:08.639
I mean but Devo was.
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:12.000
Well, no, no, it's not a weird pairing, but it's weird they didn't get a US release.
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:12.639
Right, right.
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:13.519
That's what's weird.
00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:13.919
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:23.440
It's like, okay, stiff would license stuff from Columbia at that time or Epic or Berserkly.
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:25.039
You know, one of those indie labels.
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:26.960
Like I'm surprised they weren't on, say, Berserkly.
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:28.480
Yeah, Richmond, Jonathan Richmond.
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:30.879
Jonathan Richmond, Greg Kin, and stuff like that.
00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:33.360
They seem like they would actually fit in there.
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:33.840
Right.
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.279
But they I you know, they don't they're not bad.
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:38.639
They're not a business.
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:39.279
Right.
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:45.440
So whatever landed, they seem definitely like people like whatever lands in front of them, it seems reasonable, nothing stupid.
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:47.759
They're like, well, it's here, let's do this.
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:48.080
Right.
00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.960
Instead of hunting down some bigger opportunity.
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:51.440
Uh-huh.
00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:57.919
Which is funny because it leads to like the next records of Good Earth's on Twin Tone, and then they'd go to a major label for two records, right?
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:01.120
It's it's only life and time for a witness are the only thing.
00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:02.320
Yeah, those are the only two.
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:04.799
Which are both awesome, amazing records.
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:05.119
Yeah.
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:09.359
And no compromise not compromised at all, although very catchy and very you could see why a major label is.
00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:10.720
Oh, just feel these records, yeah.
00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:11.839
That's very organic.
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:12.160
Yeah.
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:21.519
Yeah, it's but it's also interesting the evolution of their sound from this more um syncopated rhythmic thing to their more drony.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:24.079
I guess it's a better way to put it.
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:26.480
Um almost kraut rocky.
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.200
I guess they become almost like Americana kraut rock or something like that.
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:29.519
Right.
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:29.839
Right.
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:35.119
Yeah, because the the the sort of the tense nervous edge of Crazy Rhythms kind of goes away.
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:43.680
I mean, there's still that kind of like tightness and tension about the songs, but Crazy Rhythm's just the way I mean it starts off with a song called Boy with Perpetual Nervousness.
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:56.480
It's got them looking like kind of kind of scared geeks on the front of the cover, you know, and that that kind of because the good earth in the next next one, there it's a pic a picture of them in a field, you know, right wearing kind of like you know, jean jackets and stuff.
00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:57.599
I mean, it's not it doesn't matter.
00:17:57.759 --> 00:17:58.960
It is funny, think of all the covers.
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:01.440
So there's that one, and then there's the one in the field.
00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:01.839
Right.
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.680
Then in um Only Like They're in front of the house, yeah.
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.880
And then Time for a Witness, they're all sitting in their sitting around a rug.
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.880
So it's always about space.
00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:13.839
Yeah, I guess.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.160
Yeah, yeah, it's smaller and smaller.
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:17.039
That's true, yeah.
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:17.839
Smaller and smaller.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:18.400
Space.
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:19.759
There's nothing behind them on the first one.
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:23.200
Then they're out in a field, then they're in front of a house, then they're in a room.
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:23.920
Right.
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:26.400
Then there was a picture of the woods on that one record.
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:26.799
Right.
00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:32.400
The lat the they made two studio albums since they're their sort of comeback, and they're not on the cover of either of those.
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:35.759
I don't think they're those are just like Well, what the fuck is going on with that?
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:37.119
I know, that's odd.
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.799
Put them, well, so uh they were in a room.
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.160
So do you want do they then scale them back up?
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.680
Or do you keep going smaller?
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.880
Like next thing like maybe they're in those pictures, they're just so small we're not.
00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:50.799
They're in a basement.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:53.279
Or they could look very small in a big place.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:59.039
Like you could put them in front of some massive, like a factory or something.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:18:59.680
Yeah.
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:00.240
Yeah.
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:11.039
But there, yeah, I mean, this it's interesting because this like single is great, that first record is great, and I think a lot of people have their their idea of them from all that.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:16.160
And it is a fair idea of what they were, because a lot of that stuff is stuck through, but they have changed a lot since then.
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.039
You don't think it you don't think the 80s version is a little more?
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:20.160
I mean, I guess so.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:26.160
I know I don't really have a sense of how well though I mean I was in college radio when those 80s albums came out, and they were big on college radio for sure.
00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:32.079
So I I imagine there are a lot of people who know those records too, and they and they should.
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.880
I mean, that's only life, I think, is it might even be my favorite one.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:35.599
It's just consistently.
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:38.640
They're great live too.
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.920
They toured a lot during that 80s part, which they were uh road dogs, yeah.
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.160
I yeah, they I mean, I'm sure you saw them a few times.
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:44.480
Yeah.
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:46.559
I saw them open for Who's Credo, they would play.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:48.880
I saw them open for the root on the New York Tour.
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:57.920
Yeah, they would play like I think they were playing like college spring flings and they would play all over the place for a while, and then they probably I mean, you get sick of it, I'm sure.
00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:02.960
Right, and I mean at least some of them have had to maintain jobs through this whole thing.
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:10.240
Like, that's I always wonder, like, a band like that, so this is something that really isn't talked about enough.
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:18.720
Like, especially back in those days, one of the main questions I wanted to ask those people is like, what do you do the rest of the time?
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:19.119
Right.
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:24.240
Like how and and the answer is I work, you know, but people don't realize that.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:24.480
Right.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:36.960
You know, a lot of people assume any band they see on the road or on a stage that that's as time has gone on and more people are aware from the internet and stuff that there isn't as much of a music industry anymore, maybe there's a little more awareness of that.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:41.599
But in general, people just assume I mean, people you know that that that's your job.
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:47.680
I mean, I'm just a hacker and I'm like I'm playing a show, and they're like, Oh, you have to have a job, and I'm like, they don't pay right.
00:20:48.400 --> 00:21:07.519
You know, they I've they don't it's it's not that you can't make a living playing live music per se, but and so I was always curious about especially bands like the feelies or something, it's like you have to find some midpoint between a career and something that you can maintain while being gone for months at a time.
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.279
Like, how do you balance that?
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:15.359
What kind of life, you know, what did you know, and and a lot of it's the answer is shitty retail jobs, right?
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.039
You know, I don't know, I temp, you know, and do the best I can.
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.480
And that's gotta be you can only do that for so long.
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:23.839
Like that's something's gotta give.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:24.319
Right.
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:31.759
Like either you're gonna go ahead and make your living as a musician, or you're gonna have to figure something out, you know.
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:41.200
Yeah, and I have a feeling with them, like that that that 80s stretch of those two AM records when they were touring all the time, I think they probably were living off of it as much as they could because they were just out on the road too much.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:54.160
And then when they kind of semi-broke up, even though they never were really totally broken up, when they came back, I think I don't think they ever did any long tours since then, because I think most of the time it's like we could go out for a weekend or a week, and then we all got to get back to our jobs, even now.
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:54.720
Yeah.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:22:01.279
Maybe you would know this, and this is a a question did they end up how did they end up with With AM at the end of that?
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.240
Like, did they basically finish their AM AM contract?
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:10.400
And that's kind of why Bill was like, okay, I can walk away now without owing money or any of that kind of stuff.
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:11.759
That yeah, no, that's a good question.
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.160
Do they own their masters kind of thing?
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:23.920
Or they definitely own the masters because they've reissued those AM records by themselves, or at least with maybe Barnun has helped out with those, but they they they definitely had some kind of possession of those afterwards.
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:27.119
Yeah, I I mean I'm assuming that they just had a two-record contract with them.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:34.640
Because it's funny because you can you we go through a lot of these bands and it's you get on a major label, it's another case where you think, oh, I have all this money.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.519
You end up you have to spend a bunch of money on a major label.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:38.079
Right, right.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:40.640
Like they aren't giving you, you're spending your money.
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:40.960
Yeah.
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:46.079
And they're telling you you have to spend your money, you have to spend this much money to fulfill your contract.
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:46.480
Yeah.
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:49.039
This much of your money is going to marketing, this much.
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:49.279
Right.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:54.880
And so it I could, you know, especially a band that doesn't want to be so involved with that kind of stuff.
00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:59.279
I don't assume you just have a manager and be like, you're you're handling this.
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:01.200
But it that I don't know.
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:03.119
It just how do you make money at it?
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:03.359
Yeah.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:03.759
You know?
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.160
I mean, I think a lot of people don't really really realize.
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.880
I mean, I don't know if this is a fair analogy, but I think a major label is basically a bank.
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:13.279
You know, I mean it's words, it's a loan shark.
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:14.240
Yeah, exactly.
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:14.960
Exactly.
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:23.279
You know, they have some they uh if a loan shark knew how to get records into stores and stuff like that, they have specific knowledge, but with everything they do for you, you're paying them.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:26.400
Yeah, it's just they're loaning you the money, fronting it to you, yeah, yeah.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.559
Fronting it to you, and they get paid back first.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:28.960
Yeah.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:31.839
It's not even like you get to make payments after that point.
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:36.400
They're like, no, first we get everything until we've gotten everything.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:43.839
And then you'll get half of or whatever percentage we've agreed to give you of what's left after that.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:44.240
Yeah.
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.319
And sometimes, yeah, you sell a bunch of records, that's a good pot of money, it makes sense.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:51.039
It costs it's not a joke.
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:59.920
It does like if you're Def Leopard, it costs a lot of money to make that record, it costs a lot of money to promote that record, you costs a lot of money to tour that record.
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:10.000
And so it makes sense, especially at that level where you've got a partnership where all the parties get together and go, okay, you're gonna be responsible for this, we're gonna be responsible for this.
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:14.240
But then when you scale it down, it gets a little funky.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:14.960
Totally.
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:27.039
Like it's like you can't apply that same logic to like I can think of other bands, you know, just those those bands that are just making one video because it's their first record and they're trying to get on 120 minutes or something like that.
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:28.880
And nope, you gotta spend that much.
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:40.240
Yeah, and I mean the whole concept with sport is supposed to be this thing where like we get a hit record every once in a while and that pays for all the debt of all the, but they still that it pays the label, but it doesn't pay the bands, you know.
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:48.079
And I mean there's all these stories of bands who have been in debt to major labels for mul multiple decades since they've not since they've been on those labels.
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:56.559
I think wasn't it Luna or somebody relatively recently posted that hey, Electra decided to forgive our debt after 25 years or whatever.
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:57.279
Debt.
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:01.039
I mean, it's you know, the concept that you're indebted to the label is.
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:07.599
I and I mean now at the same time, I'm sort of like those con who's signing those contracts?
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:08.480
Right, that's a bad thing.
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:14.960
Like, I I have to admit, like, I would never sign a contract that put me in debt like that with the person that I was working with.
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:25.200
I would rather go get that debt someplace else, build up credit someplace else, go to a bank and say, Hi there, I'm a band, I've signed with a major label, I'd like to get a business loan.
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:25.680
Right.
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:35.039
Yeah, no, it's as opposed to because it seems to me like even you calling it a bank is like that's a massive conflict of interest.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:36.960
It totally is that's like huge.
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:43.200
We have bank well, we used to before the the now times, uh huh, banking regulations.
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.759
I mean, that's just predatory.
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:46.079
Right.
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:55.359
And on top of it, they're you know, they're going for people who are desperate for either artistic or passion reasons or um mental illness reasons, right?
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.599
Or, you know, and they're exploiting people's desire for fame.
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:05.359
And um uh no, it's an expo an incredibly exploitive situation.
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:08.400
It has been since the beginning of the the record industry, basically.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.359
It's yeah, it's we've gone kind of far afield here, but it's such so true.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:15.039
I mean, it's something that that has to do with everyone we talk about, you know.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:28.799
It's not that far afield because we came up because we admire the way the fieldies have kind of stayed managed to keep themselves whole uh and maintain their creativity while even while tangling with the beast like that and then coming out.
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:30.160
Very few bands have done that.
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:30.960
Like that's true.
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:35.519
Fall became a smoking hulk after trying to put out three major label records, you know.
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:36.880
It took forever to build them back up.
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:37.359
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.960
And you know, there's a couple bands, I think Sonic Youth did pretty well.
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:43.359
Um, but it's hard.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:50.000
It is you know and and um usually you have to change something about yourself to accommodate it.
00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:50.559
Yeah.
00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:54.960
And it seems like the feelies managed to just stay themselves and still go right through it.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:00.880
Yeah, I mean it's one it it a lot of it comes down to me too, like there's never been a that meaningful of a union.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:04.720
And that's you know, like because in a way, athletics is sort of similar.
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:08.960
You know, like, hey, you signed with a pro team, I and you don't know what you're doing, you're 17 and you have no idea.
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:10.000
It's like, wow, this is cool.
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:21.599
Well, you get to sign with a union too, who will not who will negotiate your contract, or who already has negotiated the situation you're in, so that you know you're getting this much money for this, you know, and that kind of and a band is just like has no power at all.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.240
No, but see, this is where I'm like, why don't they join the musicians union?
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.559
I mean, is there a There is a musician's union extremely powerful?
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:33.119
I know there is one, but it's the one that has any power anymore.
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:41.839
I'm gonna put on my little hat and I'm gonna say, you know, one of the interesting things about the Beatles era of rock and roll is it probably helped break unions.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:53.200
Because instead of a producer finding an artist, finding songs, putting all that together, hiring musicians, hiring a studio, hiring an engineer, everybody union.
00:27:53.759 --> 00:28:03.119
You get four louts off the street who learn to harmonize while taking drugs, and then you just record them.
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:03.519
Yeah.
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:08.319
And they may even, they may be libertarian enough in attitude that they don't like unions.
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:10.720
Their experience with unions would not be great anyway.
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.000
Like the Kinks had a horrible experience with the American unions.
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:28.559
Going in like a lot of the British bands, anytime they had to use classical musicians or union musicians, those people were highly disdainful of what they were doing and were often mocking, and you know, the the horn guys would get drunk and stuff like that.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:28.799
Right.
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:34.799
US little bit better in LA where those guys seem to really respect pop and would go ahead and go for it.
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:44.960
Uh but you know, it's it they you definitely could see how that could turn into a world where there is no musicians union for pop musicians.
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:53.119
I mean, why don't why doesn't every musician of means just go ahead and turn the union into a force like that?
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:55.039
You know, I I don't know.
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:56.960
I don't I I know that's a pure question.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:57.440
I don't know.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:06.000
You could probably do a lot of work on like why the musicians union is the way it is, and and it's probably great for what it is.
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:06.480
Right.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:18.720
But it's like like we're saying, why why isn't every young band, particularly if they get a contract like that with either a management or publishing or something, immediately get signed to the union.
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:19.680
Exactly.
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:19.920
Yeah.
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:33.200
You know, get them signed up, make sure that they have a route to healthcare, um, make sure that they're way you know that they they can have access, because even if you don't have a full-on law, you can go to a union, they can help you figure stuff out.
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:34.319
Oh, totally.
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:37.359
No, it's a subject for a book, which probably someone has written a book about.
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:41.599
We should we'll research and let you know if there are any good books about musicians' unions.
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:45.519
Um but other yeah, but but going back to the Phillies, great band.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.279
Well, see the takeaway from this is there's three different versions of Fossi Law.
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:49.759
Right.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:50.960
We've discovered this.
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:55.440
There's the Oric version, there's the Rough Trade version, and there's the stiff version.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:55.759
Right.
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:58.160
We'll call it the stiff crazy rhythms version, right.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:04.960
And that everybody should join a union at your place of I'm I'm not kidding, at your place of employment.
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:08.559
If you have access to joining a union or association, now's the time to do it.
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:12.160
That's the that is one of the few places we're gonna have power right now.
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:14.000
And uh it's important.
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:14.960
Yeah, 100%.
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:25.359
And vote for uh politicians who are pro-union, and go to go all may research around you and only go to stores or places like that that are union.
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.319
In the South, I understand this is extremely hard.
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:33.759
You know, you just do the best you can, but uh that's an important way that you can support things like this.
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:47.279
And the more strength there is in union, the more we can get people, and musicians are only I mean, there's any kind of person who's a freelancer or whatever, we would should really be trying to get these people grouped together so that there's more uh political power for them.
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:47.759
Yep.
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.319
And I'll slip one real quickly, we might want to edit out.
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:53.039
But Biden was the best pro most pro-union president we've ever had.
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:53.599
Literally.
00:30:53.839 --> 00:31:01.200
And if and if you if that wasn't enough for you to support her, I mean, you know, that's what we lost when Biden left.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:01.839
So get them.
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:02.799
Get their asses.
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:03.359
That's right.
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:04.000
Get their asses.
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:04.880
But anyway, serious.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:13.839
And and also, uh, just as a as a note, if you want to hear that orc version, it never came out originally because uh Philly Stein to stiff and orc didn't have enough money to put it out.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:16.559
There's a little confusion there, but uh it's on the orc box set.
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:20.720
It's in the orc box set, and orc also, it looks like did a record store day thing with the seven inches.
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:25.039
But that uh that orc box set, by the way, is absolutely off the chain.
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:29.359
It might be one of the greatest collections of power pop anywhere.
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:40.720
Crazy Alex Chilton tracks, a whole bunch of like all of these bands like Richard Hell, Richard Lloyd covering the stones because they were going to do a comp, but then they never finished it because their attention spans were for shit.
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.119
And um and they had no money.
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:48.720
And uh great tracks, early tracks by the feelies, first television single.
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:53.759
It's it's just a really great listen as a box set, like just to put it on and run it through.
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:54.799
It's a ton of great music.
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:55.440
Absolutely.
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:55.920
Yep.
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:56.960
So awesome.
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:00.319
Well, thanks everybody for listening this time around, and we'll see you next time on The Spindle.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:01.359
All right, cheers.
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.119
The Spindle is produced by John Howard and me, Mark Masters.
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:14.880
I'm also the audio editor.
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:18.559
My theme song is by the great band Honey Radio.
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:33.039
Podcast is productive by Waitoid, audio and video by more podcasting videos by WayToy, podcast, way reading and review of podcasts, review of podcasts.
00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:12.880
Hello everybody.
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:15.679
Mark and John.
00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.280
Hi, and welcome to the Spindle, a podcast about seven-inch records.
00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:25.760
I'm Mark.
00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:26.320
I'm John.
00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:31.519
And in each episode, we talk about one seven-inch record, hopefully give you some insight into it that you haven't heard before.
00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:38.079
We both got into music in the 80s and 90s when 7 inches were super important, especially on independent labels, so that's the era we mostly draw from.
00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:41.840
But we sometimes pick some stuff earlier earlier or later than that, too.
00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.039
Either way, we try to keep it short and to the point just like seven inches do.
00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:54.159
So on this episode, we will be talking about the Feelies, uh, 7 Inch Raised Eyebrows, backed with Faset La, released in 1979 on Rough Trade Records.
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:58.159
There's quite a few versions of this, but we're talking specifically about this Rough Trade version.
00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:02.000
Uh it was recorded at Grogkill Studios in Willow, New York.
00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:04.719
The studio's owned by uh Carla Blay and Mike.
00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:05.439
Badass.
00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:08.879
Both written by Glenn Mercer and Bill Million.
00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:10.480
Um millions or millions?
00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:11.040
Millions.
00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:12.239
I think it's millions.
00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:12.959
You got me?
00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:13.439
Yeah.
00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:21.280
Um it was a part of a session that was a four-song demo that Rough Trade offered to release a single from, so Felix picked these two songs out of the four.
00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:28.480
The lineup at the time was Glenn Mercer, Guitar and Vocals, Bill Million, Guitar Vocals, Keith Clayton on bass, and Anton Fear on Drums.
00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:30.799
So this is their very first release.
00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:34.480
But they had been they'd already kind of morphed a couple times before they even did this.
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:41.519
There'd been a band called The Out Kids, I guess, in the 70s, which was Mercer Million and Dave Weckerman, who's one of their percussionists now.
00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:45.680
But he left the band, Keith Clayton came in, and then eventually Anton Fear came in.
00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:58.239
And apparently they they had actually recorded before this, but they didn't like how it went, and they were given more freedom at this new studio, and so they recorded these four songs and then recorded Crazy Rhythms there too.
00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:02.400
Or maybe no, Crazy Rhythms was recorded at Vanguard Studios.
00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:07.760
But anyway, yeah, they re-recorded some of these songs for Crazy Rhythms, their first album, except Raised Eyebrows.
00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:11.039
The A side of this actually went ahead, they just pulled that onto Crazy Rhythms.
00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:14.240
Apparently, they EQ'd it a little bit to make it sound like the rest of the record or something.
00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:28.879
But um so Fosela has this weird history where they were there's this demo version of it, then they recorded it for a single for Orc Records that never came out, and then they record re-recorded it for Crazy Rhythms, which we just sort of figured out today as we were listening to all of the things.
00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:39.120
They I mean, in their way, it's like they they always sound the same, but in reality they rarely play anything the same way twice.
00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:41.199
That's 100% true, yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:46.639
And I mean I think most people like for me at least, and it's probably true of a lot of people who've found out about the feelings.
00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:49.360
I heard crazy rhythms first, so I'm really used to that first Fasela.
00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:53.439
And this one is the the one on Rough Trade is different.
00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:56.879
I mean, from what we just listened to, it's it's the guitar's a little noisier.
00:02:57.039 --> 00:02:57.759
It's gnarlier.
00:02:57.919 --> 00:02:58.159
Yeah.
00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:00.560
It's like both drier and gnarlier.
00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:08.240
Um, a touch slower, though, like not as it's not as jumpy sounding, tougher sounding, I thought.
00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:09.680
You can kind of tell the the Anton Fear influence on this, although I on the orc maybe he's on it too.
00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:12.960
Anyway, the his influence even grows more, I think, on Crazy Rhythms.
00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:14.719
Crazy Rhythms is so percussion oriented.
00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.120
Oh, that's a very that the fossil law on there is very, very kind of around the percussion.
00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:21.519
But but you can hear that Anton fear precision.
00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:21.839
Right.
00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:26.079
Where everything's just locked in and and his drums are very um, you know.
00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:36.879
He took that to the lounge lizards, you know, next, and it's just like it's he's he is somebody because I'm a drummer as well, and and it just um he is an immediately identifiable guy.
00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:37.360
Uh-huh.
00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:42.160
Um it is he does seem to need to move through projects.
00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:42.560
Right.
00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:45.199
Like you're gonna get Anton Feared, uh-huh.
00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:46.240
And it might be okay.
00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:48.560
You'll get a good record out of it, uh-huh, you know.
00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:51.759
But it's it's like he's just he's Anton Fear.
00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:52.240
Right.
00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:54.160
And it's gonna be that way.
00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.600
But what a great drummer.
00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:58.720
Yeah, and he was out of the band by after Crazy Rhythms was a good thing.
00:04:58.879 --> 00:04:59.439
That's what I'm saying.
00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:10.959
It's like, yeah, yeah, partially because like they weren't really that into touring yet or whatever, and he wanted to be active all the time and they were kind of sparse in how much they were doing, and that's they're a pretty tight duo to Mercer.
00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:18.480
Like they are like I don't know whether they're besties or something like that, but as far as like the whole feeling thing, they plainly are utterly locked in on that.
00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:19.120
Totally.
00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:26.879
And it you know, Anton Fear seems like a guy he's like, I want to be in I wanna do uh and be in charge, and they're probably like, Yeah, but you're not.
00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:27.279
Right.
00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:28.879
And we don't feel like playing.
00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:29.519
Uh-huh.
00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:30.560
Yeah.
00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:33.120
So yeah, he's a restless guy.
00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:33.680
Uh-huh.
00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:53.680
Uh one of the interesting things to me about that because the whole crazy rhythms thing and and other begin or early things seem sort of of their own thing, even though they're a kind of a proto-new wave 70s band in New York or whatever, and are kind of part of that movie, though they don't really sound like a ton of other bands, maybe talking heads, but I I don't know.
00:05:54.079 --> 00:06:02.639
Well, I mean, this is where I think it's a shame that the term New Wave has sort of gotten co-opted into something like Flock of Seagulls.
00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:07.439
Um, it's like it was kind of there, it isn't just them.
00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:24.079
There were obviously a lot of people 74, 75, 76, who were sort of picking at the entrails of you know, the pop-baced rock music of the 60s and trying to put something new together because the stuff that was happening sucked, as we've talked about in I don't know how many episodes, because it was a nightmare.
00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.839
And so uh this sounds like another crew like that.
00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:31.199
You know, they just are like, well, what can we do that's interesting to us?
00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:43.040
And that seems different from kind of what's been called punk, or is it proto-punk because they're definitely coming from before that time but are sort of with that movement?
00:06:43.519 --> 00:07:03.680
It's there is it is sort of there's it's an unsatisfying, like as a historian, I'm like, there's gotta be some way we can encapsulate that era, you know, because they really are more like say a paru boo or something that was doing stuff because if we if you heard about them in 76, that means they were doing the two couple years before that, they're in their garage and their bedrooms doing this stuff.
00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:12.000
It's an interesting era because if you you know, we all have access to YouTube and you can see what was going on at that time above the surface.
00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:20.160
Meanwhile, there there's all these kids in bedrooms and dorms and art rooms and stuff just doing their best to sort of undermine that.
00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:20.560
Right.
00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:21.920
Very inspiring still.
00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:28.720
And they didn't even have a framework to hang it on like people did five years later by saying punk.
00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:29.600
They're just doing it.
00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:30.160
Devo.
00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.360
I definitely think the feelies fall in that category for sure.
00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:39.120
Like it's you know, they're they're drinking from the source and they're taking the next step onwards.
00:07:39.759 --> 00:08:08.639
Uh one of the things I thought was cool that that they said a lot of the stuff I know about these songs now is because there's this great version, great episode of uh this podcast called Life of the Record, where Bill and Glenn go through all the songs on Crazy Rhythms, and uh Glenn said right away that this song was was somewhat inspired by her to call my name in terms of the the beginning with all the kind of out-of-control guitars to start with, which I can see it now, and I've never it never occurred to me when I heard it before, but it kind of makes sense, especially in this version, more so than the Crazy Rhythms version, they really are grinding at the guitars like right away.
00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.439
Right, right, you know, which is uh right.
00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:17.759
This one, when you say that, this one definitely has more of the flavor, like the vocals also are more frantic than some of the other ones.
00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:18.240
Yeah.
00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:20.079
And you sort of get more of a feel of that.
00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:21.279
I heard her call my name.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:30.399
A lot of the bands around this time were doing this kind of thing, but it felt they felt like they came out of the gate so already defined to themselves at least.
00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:32.080
You know, they had this style right away.
00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:38.399
Like, I I just feel like crazy rhythms and and even these other versions, even though they're different, there's something like I could never not know that's the feelies.
00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:38.799
Yeah.
00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:40.480
When I hear these records, right, right.
00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.039
We just hear the percussion start up, the drums go start going.
00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:44.320
It doesn't even matter who the drummer is.
00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:46.320
You just hear that going, you're like, oh, it's feelies.
00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:46.480
Yeah.
00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.399
And then the guitar starts ching, ching, ching, ching, you know.
00:08:48.879 --> 00:09:05.039
And and uh, but uh see that's what I'm saying is like when you're not chasing a sound, except for just trying to do something that you can do with the people you're with that sounds interesting to you, you definitely arrive at more innovative places a lot.
00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:05.759
You know.
00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:10.799
Even as they're kind of self-consciously going, like, well, how can we do I Heard Or Call My Name?
00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:13.120
They realize, well, we can't really do I Heard Or Call My Name.
00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:20.159
So it's like we're gonna do our little suburban rat boy version of it, you know, which is great.
00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:28.559
Like it's like gives it a whole new feeling than the original, which is almost like overamped RB, more than it's like rock.
00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:30.559
It's an interesting follow-on from that.
00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:31.440
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:38.480
Yeah, that that definitely after hearing all three of the versions, the rough trade one definitely shows that the most, don't you think?
00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:39.440
Yeah, for sure.
00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:40.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:58.240
The what's really actually the A-side, although I don't think anybody would ever think of Fosse Law as not the single from that time period, but Raised Eyebrows, apparently it's funny what you said about Anton Fear because they claim in that Life of the Record interview, G Glenn came up with the idea for the drums in this part and had to show Anton what he wanted him to do.
00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:09.039
And and it might it sounds like it even might have taken a little effort because he wanted a sound of drums, at least what Bill thinks what he wanted was like almost like random, like it was like fireworks or something, more than a beat.
00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:10.639
That kind of dun dun dun.
00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:16.159
Those uh you're talking the snare rolls towards the like those extra kind of well, not like the beginning of raised eyebrows.
00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:16.960
Oh the beginning.
00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:17.679
Oh, raised eyebrows.
00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:18.080
I'm sorry, sorry.
00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:18.960
Yeah, no, no, no problem.
00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:33.600
You know, so like like when it comes on, it's like it sounds almost like he's slowly going through and and he wanted it to sound like almost just like it's popping randomly, and then the guitar will come in and make it coalesce around it, which it really does really well, I think.
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:34.720
That's so hilarious.
00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:42.240
And the long line of non-drummers trying like trying to get drummers to do things that are probably completely wrong.
00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:42.960
Right, right.
00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:52.320
You know, and uh Anton, I will say some people uh would be fine with that, you know, because maybe they have more of a background in abstraction.
00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:55.519
Anton Fear is uh that guy's a metronome.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:55.840
Right.
00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:57.360
And he's a you know what I mean?
00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:04.240
So he would definitely, if you're trying to get him to go across bars or uh come up with something as you would say, you know, random, right?
00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:06.639
He's like, but there is no random, there's only a grid.
00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:07.679
What do you mean random?
00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:09.279
What part of the grid do you want him on?
00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:09.600
Right.
00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:11.360
And that's not unreasonable either.
00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:16.799
But a but a guitarist is just gonna go, you know, here and then here, like that, and then you know, there.
00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:17.200
Uh-huh.
00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:23.440
And uh so he definitely seems like a player who would be like, No, we're we're writing this down or something.
00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:26.960
So but he got it, obviously, and it sounds fantastic.
00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:31.039
I mean, people most drummers would be willing to be like, oh, what do you want there?
00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:32.399
You know, let's make it work.
00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:43.679
And it would be hard to, you know, especially if you're talking, like trying to get that random feel, you'd probably have to try that a few times to really get it to feel any drummer would because you're all sitting there counting, you know.
00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:51.120
So to try and get them to make it sound like it's not on the beat is it's very hard for most drummers.
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:37.360
But what I love about it too is like it does I never really thought of it as sounding random, but once I heard Bill saying that, I'm like, when you listen, you can kind of hear that, but then once the music comes in, you realize he's still figuring a pattern out.
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:44.240
Like it because it starts to fit with the pattern of the guitar is really syncop, yeah, it's like uh uh pre-syncopation, you can call it kind of right, right.
00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:52.879
You play the syncopated part first, which is a big, which is a really cool rhythmic trick because it's like it kind of like you're saying, it flips the beat a little bit.
00:13:53.120 --> 00:14:01.840
So you forget where the one is if you hear the syncopation, and so then that syncopation goes on for a second, and then the actual one comes through and you're like, oh.
00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:14.639
And that's a it's the kind of an you know, sort of a sleight of hand that gives a little that really does up the interest, and especially with them, it just makes that headlong even more that like off to the races.
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:15.279
Right, you know?
00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:15.600
Uh-huh.
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:19.039
It's like the king could barely even uh wait to get it going.
00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:29.919
So it's a fun the well the other funny story in that podcast that's kind of uh goofy, but I love it, is that when they first put it together, like, oh man, when this when we play this song, it's probably gonna raise some eyebrows.
00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:30.240
Yeah.
00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:32.480
That's why they called it.
00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:34.559
Uh see, that's what I'm saying.
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:42.559
Like they're so their own and knowing they look like they uh to me, career-wise, it looks like they've tried to nurture that.
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:51.840
That they realized that was actually a strength of theirs, and that trying to become big stars right off the bat meant that they would dilute what they were really good at.
00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:52.480
Right.
00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:55.120
And that um that's very sensible.
00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:01.759
And then when they were older and could probably maintain it better, they then were like, Okay, well, let's give it a shot, see if we can do it.
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.559
And when it seemed to try and burst that bubble, they're like, No, we're good.
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:04.960
Right.
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:08.159
You know, and and I think that's just smart.
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:17.919
Like it's it's not even I mean, it's just a smart way to approach the business instead of getting sucked under right away and being like, Oh, I'm gonna go as far as fast as I can right off the bat.
00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:21.200
And instead, it's like, well, do to where?
00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:22.159
Why?
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:23.039
For what?
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:23.600
You know.
00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:34.639
They ended up, you know, I mean, taking that approach ended up being way more of a license for longevity than other like the no wave band, the other no wave bands and stuff like that.
00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.279
Those approaches were all just like set fire to it, you know.
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:38.799
Let's do it all now.
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:42.720
And uh it's it's a cool feature of them.
00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:47.360
Like it always they've always seemed to maintain a certain amount of groundedness and humanity.
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:49.759
It sort of keeps them being a weird local band in a way.
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:50.639
Yeah, totally.
00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:52.080
They do feel still feel like an account.
00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:53.279
Right, right, they're a band.
00:15:53.440 --> 00:16:00.080
Yeah, yeah, they don't seem they ever like they ever were uh tried like made that jump from while we're no longer from New Jersey, you know.
00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:07.519
Which is funny because so their history is after the single, they make crazy rhythms and it comes out on Stiff in England, which is a weird, kind of a weird pairing.
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:08.639
I mean but Devo was.
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:12.000
Well, no, no, it's not a weird pairing, but it's weird they didn't get a US release.
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:12.639
Right, right.
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:13.519
That's what's weird.
00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:13.919
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:23.440
It's like, okay, stiff would license stuff from Columbia at that time or Epic or Berserkly.
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:25.039
You know, one of those indie labels.
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:26.960
Like I'm surprised they weren't on, say, Berserkly.
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:28.480
Yeah, Richmond, Jonathan Richmond.
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:30.879
Jonathan Richmond, Greg Kin, and stuff like that.
00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:33.360
They seem like they would actually fit in there.
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:33.840
Right.
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.279
But they I you know, they don't they're not bad.
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:38.639
They're not a business.
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:39.279
Right.
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:45.440
So whatever landed, they seem definitely like people like whatever lands in front of them, it seems reasonable, nothing stupid.
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:47.759
They're like, well, it's here, let's do this.
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:48.080
Right.
00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.960
Instead of hunting down some bigger opportunity.
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:51.440
Uh-huh.
00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:57.919
Which is funny because it leads to like the next records of Good Earth's on Twin Tone, and then they'd go to a major label for two records, right?
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:01.120
It's it's only life and time for a witness are the only thing.
00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:02.320
Yeah, those are the only two.
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:04.799
Which are both awesome, amazing records.
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:05.119
Yeah.
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:09.359
And no compromise not compromised at all, although very catchy and very you could see why a major label is.
00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:10.720
Oh, just feel these records, yeah.
00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:11.839
That's very organic.
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:12.160
Yeah.
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:21.519
Yeah, it's but it's also interesting the evolution of their sound from this more um syncopated rhythmic thing to their more drony.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:24.079
I guess it's a better way to put it.
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:26.480
Um almost kraut rocky.
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.200
I guess they become almost like Americana kraut rock or something like that.
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:29.519
Right.
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:29.839
Right.
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:35.119
Yeah, because the the the sort of the tense nervous edge of Crazy Rhythms kind of goes away.
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:43.680
I mean, there's still that kind of like tightness and tension about the songs, but Crazy Rhythm's just the way I mean it starts off with a song called Boy with Perpetual Nervousness.
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:56.480
It's got them looking like kind of kind of scared geeks on the front of the cover, you know, and that that kind of because the good earth in the next next one, there it's a pic a picture of them in a field, you know, right wearing kind of like you know, jean jackets and stuff.
00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:57.599
I mean, it's not it doesn't matter.
00:17:57.759 --> 00:17:58.960
It is funny, think of all the covers.
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:01.440
So there's that one, and then there's the one in the field.
00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:01.839
Right.
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.680
Then in um Only Like They're in front of the house, yeah.
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.880
And then Time for a Witness, they're all sitting in their sitting around a rug.
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.880
So it's always about space.
00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:13.839
Yeah, I guess.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.160
Yeah, yeah, it's smaller and smaller.
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:17.039
That's true, yeah.
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:17.839
Smaller and smaller.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:18.400
Space.
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:19.759
There's nothing behind them on the first one.
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:23.200
Then they're out in a field, then they're in front of a house, then they're in a room.
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:23.920
Right.
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:26.400
Then there was a picture of the woods on that one record.
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:26.799
Right.
00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:32.400
The lat the they made two studio albums since they're their sort of comeback, and they're not on the cover of either of those.
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:35.759
I don't think they're those are just like Well, what the fuck is going on with that?
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:37.119
I know, that's odd.
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.799
Put them, well, so uh they were in a room.
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.160
So do you want do they then scale them back up?
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.680
Or do you keep going smaller?
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.880
Like next thing like maybe they're in those pictures, they're just so small we're not.
00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:50.799
They're in a basement.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:53.279
Or they could look very small in a big place.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:59.039
Like you could put them in front of some massive, like a factory or something.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:18:59.680
Yeah.
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:00.240
Yeah.
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:11.039
But there, yeah, I mean, this it's interesting because this like single is great, that first record is great, and I think a lot of people have their their idea of them from all that.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:16.160
And it is a fair idea of what they were, because a lot of that stuff is stuck through, but they have changed a lot since then.
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.039
You don't think it you don't think the 80s version is a little more?
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:20.160
I mean, I guess so.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:26.160
I know I don't really have a sense of how well though I mean I was in college radio when those 80s albums came out, and they were big on college radio for sure.
00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:32.079
So I I imagine there are a lot of people who know those records too, and they and they should.
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.880
I mean, that's only life, I think, is it might even be my favorite one.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:35.599
It's just consistently.
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:38.640
They're great live too.
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.920
They toured a lot during that 80s part, which they were uh road dogs, yeah.
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.160
I yeah, they I mean, I'm sure you saw them a few times.
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:44.480
Yeah.
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:46.559
I saw them open for Who's Credo, they would play.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:48.880
I saw them open for the root on the New York Tour.
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:57.920
Yeah, they would play like I think they were playing like college spring flings and they would play all over the place for a while, and then they probably I mean, you get sick of it, I'm sure.
00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:02.960
Right, and I mean at least some of them have had to maintain jobs through this whole thing.
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:10.240
Like, that's I always wonder, like, a band like that, so this is something that really isn't talked about enough.
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:18.720
Like, especially back in those days, one of the main questions I wanted to ask those people is like, what do you do the rest of the time?
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:19.119
Right.
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:24.240
Like how and and the answer is I work, you know, but people don't realize that.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:24.480
Right.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:36.960
You know, a lot of people assume any band they see on the road or on a stage that that's as time has gone on and more people are aware from the internet and stuff that there isn't as much of a music industry anymore, maybe there's a little more awareness of that.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:41.599
But in general, people just assume I mean, people you know that that that's your job.
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:47.680
I mean, I'm just a hacker and I'm like I'm playing a show, and they're like, Oh, you have to have a job, and I'm like, they don't pay right.
00:20:48.400 --> 00:21:07.519
You know, they I've they don't it's it's not that you can't make a living playing live music per se, but and so I was always curious about especially bands like the feelies or something, it's like you have to find some midpoint between a career and something that you can maintain while being gone for months at a time.
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.279
Like, how do you balance that?
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:15.359
What kind of life, you know, what did you know, and and a lot of it's the answer is shitty retail jobs, right?
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.039
You know, I don't know, I temp, you know, and do the best I can.
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.480
And that's gotta be you can only do that for so long.
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:23.839
Like that's something's gotta give.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:24.319
Right.
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:31.759
Like either you're gonna go ahead and make your living as a musician, or you're gonna have to figure something out, you know.
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:41.200
Yeah, and I have a feeling with them, like that that that 80s stretch of those two AM records when they were touring all the time, I think they probably were living off of it as much as they could because they were just out on the road too much.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:54.160
And then when they kind of semi-broke up, even though they never were really totally broken up, when they came back, I think I don't think they ever did any long tours since then, because I think most of the time it's like we could go out for a weekend or a week, and then we all got to get back to our jobs, even now.
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:54.720
Yeah.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:22:01.279
Maybe you would know this, and this is a a question did they end up how did they end up with With AM at the end of that?
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.240
Like, did they basically finish their AM AM contract?
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:10.400
And that's kind of why Bill was like, okay, I can walk away now without owing money or any of that kind of stuff.
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:11.759
That yeah, no, that's a good question.
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.160
Do they own their masters kind of thing?
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:23.920
Or they definitely own the masters because they've reissued those AM records by themselves, or at least with maybe Barnun has helped out with those, but they they they definitely had some kind of possession of those afterwards.
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:27.119
Yeah, I I mean I'm assuming that they just had a two-record contract with them.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:34.640
Because it's funny because you can you we go through a lot of these bands and it's you get on a major label, it's another case where you think, oh, I have all this money.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.519
You end up you have to spend a bunch of money on a major label.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:38.079
Right, right.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:40.640
Like they aren't giving you, you're spending your money.
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:40.960
Yeah.
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:46.079
And they're telling you you have to spend your money, you have to spend this much money to fulfill your contract.
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:46.480
Yeah.
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:49.039
This much of your money is going to marketing, this much.
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:49.279
Right.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:54.880
And so it I could, you know, especially a band that doesn't want to be so involved with that kind of stuff.
00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:59.279
I don't assume you just have a manager and be like, you're you're handling this.
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:01.200
But it that I don't know.
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:03.119
It just how do you make money at it?
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:03.359
Yeah.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:03.759
You know?
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.160
I mean, I think a lot of people don't really really realize.
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.880
I mean, I don't know if this is a fair analogy, but I think a major label is basically a bank.
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:13.279
You know, I mean it's words, it's a loan shark.
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:14.240
Yeah, exactly.
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:14.960
Exactly.
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:23.279
You know, they have some they uh if a loan shark knew how to get records into stores and stuff like that, they have specific knowledge, but with everything they do for you, you're paying them.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:26.400
Yeah, it's just they're loaning you the money, fronting it to you, yeah, yeah.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.559
Fronting it to you, and they get paid back first.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:28.960
Yeah.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:31.839
It's not even like you get to make payments after that point.
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:36.400
They're like, no, first we get everything until we've gotten everything.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:43.839
And then you'll get half of or whatever percentage we've agreed to give you of what's left after that.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:44.240
Yeah.
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.319
And sometimes, yeah, you sell a bunch of records, that's a good pot of money, it makes sense.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:51.039
It costs it's not a joke.
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:59.920
It does like if you're Def Leopard, it costs a lot of money to make that record, it costs a lot of money to promote that record, you costs a lot of money to tour that record.
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:10.000
And so it makes sense, especially at that level where you've got a partnership where all the parties get together and go, okay, you're gonna be responsible for this, we're gonna be responsible for this.
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:14.240
But then when you scale it down, it gets a little funky.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:14.960
Totally.
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:27.039
Like it's like you can't apply that same logic to like I can think of other bands, you know, just those those bands that are just making one video because it's their first record and they're trying to get on 120 minutes or something like that.
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:28.880
And nope, you gotta spend that much.
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:40.240
Yeah, and I mean the whole concept with sport is supposed to be this thing where like we get a hit record every once in a while and that pays for all the debt of all the, but they still that it pays the label, but it doesn't pay the bands, you know.
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:48.079
And I mean there's all these stories of bands who have been in debt to major labels for mul multiple decades since they've not since they've been on those labels.
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:56.559
I think wasn't it Luna or somebody relatively recently posted that hey, Electra decided to forgive our debt after 25 years or whatever.
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:57.279
Debt.
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:01.039
I mean, it's you know, the concept that you're indebted to the label is.
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:07.599
I and I mean now at the same time, I'm sort of like those con who's signing those contracts?
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:08.480
Right, that's a bad thing.
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:14.960
Like, I I have to admit, like, I would never sign a contract that put me in debt like that with the person that I was working with.
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:25.200
I would rather go get that debt someplace else, build up credit someplace else, go to a bank and say, Hi there, I'm a band, I've signed with a major label, I'd like to get a business loan.
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:25.680
Right.
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:35.039
Yeah, no, it's as opposed to because it seems to me like even you calling it a bank is like that's a massive conflict of interest.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:36.960
It totally is that's like huge.
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:43.200
We have bank well, we used to before the the now times, uh huh, banking regulations.
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.759
I mean, that's just predatory.
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:46.079
Right.
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:55.359
And on top of it, they're you know, they're going for people who are desperate for either artistic or passion reasons or um mental illness reasons, right?
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.599
Or, you know, and they're exploiting people's desire for fame.
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:05.359
And um uh no, it's an expo an incredibly exploitive situation.
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:08.400
It has been since the beginning of the the record industry, basically.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.359
It's yeah, it's we've gone kind of far afield here, but it's such so true.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:15.039
I mean, it's something that that has to do with everyone we talk about, you know.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:28.799
It's not that far afield because we came up because we admire the way the fieldies have kind of stayed managed to keep themselves whole uh and maintain their creativity while even while tangling with the beast like that and then coming out.
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:30.160
Very few bands have done that.
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:30.960
Like that's true.
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:35.519
Fall became a smoking hulk after trying to put out three major label records, you know.
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:36.880
It took forever to build them back up.
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:37.359
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.960
And you know, there's a couple bands, I think Sonic Youth did pretty well.
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:43.359
Um, but it's hard.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:50.000
It is you know and and um usually you have to change something about yourself to accommodate it.
00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:50.559
Yeah.
00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:54.960
And it seems like the feelies managed to just stay themselves and still go right through it.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:00.880
Yeah, I mean it's one it it a lot of it comes down to me too, like there's never been a that meaningful of a union.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:04.720
And that's you know, like because in a way, athletics is sort of similar.
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:08.960
You know, like, hey, you signed with a pro team, I and you don't know what you're doing, you're 17 and you have no idea.
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:10.000
It's like, wow, this is cool.
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:21.599
Well, you get to sign with a union too, who will not who will negotiate your contract, or who already has negotiated the situation you're in, so that you know you're getting this much money for this, you know, and that kind of and a band is just like has no power at all.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.240
No, but see, this is where I'm like, why don't they join the musicians union?
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.559
I mean, is there a There is a musician's union extremely powerful?
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:33.119
I know there is one, but it's the one that has any power anymore.
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:41.839
I'm gonna put on my little hat and I'm gonna say, you know, one of the interesting things about the Beatles era of rock and roll is it probably helped break unions.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:53.200
Because instead of a producer finding an artist, finding songs, putting all that together, hiring musicians, hiring a studio, hiring an engineer, everybody union.
00:27:53.759 --> 00:28:03.119
You get four louts off the street who learn to harmonize while taking drugs, and then you just record them.
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:03.519
Yeah.
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:08.319
And they may even, they may be libertarian enough in attitude that they don't like unions.
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:10.720
Their experience with unions would not be great anyway.
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.000
Like the Kinks had a horrible experience with the American unions.
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:28.559
Going in like a lot of the British bands, anytime they had to use classical musicians or union musicians, those people were highly disdainful of what they were doing and were often mocking, and you know, the the horn guys would get drunk and stuff like that.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:28.799
Right.
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:34.799
US little bit better in LA where those guys seem to really respect pop and would go ahead and go for it.
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:44.960
Uh but you know, it's it they you definitely could see how that could turn into a world where there is no musicians union for pop musicians.
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:53.119
I mean, why don't why doesn't every musician of means just go ahead and turn the union into a force like that?
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:55.039
You know, I I don't know.
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:56.960
I don't I I know that's a pure question.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:57.440
I don't know.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:06.000
You could probably do a lot of work on like why the musicians union is the way it is, and and it's probably great for what it is.
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:06.480
Right.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:18.720
But it's like like we're saying, why why isn't every young band, particularly if they get a contract like that with either a management or publishing or something, immediately get signed to the union.
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:19.680
Exactly.
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:19.920
Yeah.
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:33.200
You know, get them signed up, make sure that they have a route to healthcare, um, make sure that they're way you know that they they can have access, because even if you don't have a full-on law, you can go to a union, they can help you figure stuff out.
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:34.319
Oh, totally.
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:37.359
No, it's a subject for a book, which probably someone has written a book about.
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:41.599
We should we'll research and let you know if there are any good books about musicians' unions.
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:45.519
Um but other yeah, but but going back to the Phillies, great band.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.279
Well, see the takeaway from this is there's three different versions of Fossi Law.
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:49.759
Right.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:50.960
We've discovered this.
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:55.440
There's the Oric version, there's the Rough Trade version, and there's the stiff version.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:55.759
Right.
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:58.160
We'll call it the stiff crazy rhythms version, right.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:04.960
And that everybody should join a union at your place of I'm I'm not kidding, at your place of employment.
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:08.559
If you have access to joining a union or association, now's the time to do it.
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:12.160
That's the that is one of the few places we're gonna have power right now.
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:14.000
And uh it's important.
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:14.960
Yeah, 100%.
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:25.359
And vote for uh politicians who are pro-union, and go to go all may research around you and only go to stores or places like that that are union.
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.319
In the South, I understand this is extremely hard.
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:33.759
You know, you just do the best you can, but uh that's an important way that you can support things like this.
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:47.279
And the more strength there is in union, the more we can get people, and musicians are only I mean, there's any kind of person who's a freelancer or whatever, we would should really be trying to get these people grouped together so that there's more uh political power for them.
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:47.759
Yep.
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.319
And I'll slip one real quickly, we might want to edit out.
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:53.039
But Biden was the best pro most pro-union president we've ever had.
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:53.599
Literally.
00:30:53.839 --> 00:31:01.200
And if and if you if that wasn't enough for you to support her, I mean, you know, that's what we lost when Biden left.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:01.839
So get them.
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:02.799
Get their asses.
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:03.359
That's right.
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:04.000
Get their asses.
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:04.880
But anyway, serious.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:13.839
And and also, uh, just as a as a note, if you want to hear that orc version, it never came out originally because uh Philly Stein to stiff and orc didn't have enough money to put it out.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:16.559
There's a little confusion there, but uh it's on the orc box set.
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:20.720
It's in the orc box set, and orc also, it looks like did a record store day thing with the seven inches.
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:25.039
But that uh that orc box set, by the way, is absolutely off the chain.
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:29.359
It might be one of the greatest collections of power pop anywhere.
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:40.720
Crazy Alex Chilton tracks, a whole bunch of like all of these bands like Richard Hell, Richard Lloyd covering the stones because they were going to do a comp, but then they never finished it because their attention spans were for shit.
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.119
And um and they had no money.
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:48.720
And uh great tracks, early tracks by the feelies, first television single.
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:53.759
It's it's just a really great listen as a box set, like just to put it on and run it through.
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:54.799
It's a ton of great music.
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:55.440
Absolutely.
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:55.920
Yep.
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:56.960
So awesome.
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:00.319
Well, thanks everybody for listening this time around, and we'll see you next time on The Spindle.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:01.359
All right, cheers.
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.119
The Spindle is produced by John Howard and me, Mark Masters.
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:14.880
I'm also the audio editor.
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:18.559
My theme song is by the great band Honey Radio.
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:33.039
Podcast is productive by Waitoid, audio and video by more podcasting videos by WayToy, podcast, way reading and review of podcasts, review of podcasts.
