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Hello, and welcome to prompt.
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A podcast that looks at fair to, from Um perspective of me Jess and act stage manager.
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Join me as I chat to a wide range of theater practitioners about their experiences, mistakes and whether or not they are indeed prompt.
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Hello.
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Uh, welcome to this episode, a prompt.
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Thanks so much for joining me.
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Thank you for downloading this episode.
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I do hope you enjoy it.
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Um, I am joined today by the brilliant lighting designer, Jack Knowles.
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Um, Jack and I go back quite a long way, although we haven't spoken to each other for a very long time.
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Um, I first met him.
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I think about 18 years ago.
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Um, he was a board up.
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At the dry school and I was the DSM.
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Uh, and I thought he was just such a delightful, lovely human being.
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Um, No idea that he was going to, uh, go on to be one of this country's, uh, most important lines sinus, but they go.
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Um, we will get onto the episode in a minute.
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Because I think it's probably quite boring listening to me, chat on my own.
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Also, I just don't have time really for an intro today.
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Too much going on.
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Um, I did 40 sites a week that I've been thinking about a lot since, uh, I did the interview with Jack.
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So just before we started recording, um, he was in one room in his flat, and then he said, oh, do you know what the wifi is better in another room.
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So I'm going to take the laptop through, to a different room.
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I was like, okay, cool.
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And he was like, do you want a tour of my flat? I was like, always.
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And so, uh, Show me around his flat and then.
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I'm one of the walls I noticed.
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This really large sword, which wasn't really engaging with the rest of his very stylish deco.
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And I was like, whoa, what's that sword? And he was like, oh, it's my night of illumination award.
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And, uh, you know, I've heard about the night of elimination award.
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And it's given out to, to lighting designers who have made great achievements.
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Um, I'm just.
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I'm very curious as to why.
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They're dishing out actual swords.
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Um, And this kind of whole night of illumination thing.
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Because, you know, when you think of nights, you think of like courage and valor.
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And you know what I don't think about when I think about courage and.
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Lighting designers.
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And this whole concept.
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Also, if you're more kind of going to stick with this kind of like.
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Weird's cosplay.
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Nice thing.
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Surely you give them the shield.
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You don't give them.
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The offensive part of that gets up.
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You give them the defensive part of that.
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No.
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I just, yeah, I'm kind of baffled by the whole thing, but anyway, um, Jackson's on his wall is huge.
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And, uh, we do have a bit of a laugh about it later in the episode.
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Um, I really hope you've enjoyed this episode.
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I think it might be in my top three of favorite prompt episodes because it's just so much fun.
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Enjoy.
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Uh, hello, Jack Knowles, and welcome to Prompt.
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Thank you so much for coming on.
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Hello.
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Good to see you.
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Good to talk to I always pause at that point and go, thank you for coming on, because usually people go, thank you for having me, and I paused, and you didn't say anything.
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And that's was just a bit shocked you suddenly went so serious.
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And now the official voice is on.
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Took me by surprise.
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we were just like, we were just gassing before I hit record.
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So, we're sort of going to have to repeat that conversation, I'm afraid, for the sake of the tape.
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Uh, so, Jack Knowles.
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award winning lighting designer, uh, you and I met, so we've just been sort of trying to do the maths without actually admitting how old we both really are, but we met like 18, 15, 18 years ago, Around that, yeah.
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Like the, the, at the tricycle, obviously, but the whole, I'll remember, I know you're, like, I know you're from the tricycle, but I can't say I don't even know what shows we did Yeah, You were just, I just, my, my image of you is just sat in that little box at the tricycle, uh, queuing, usually quite hungover, with you next to me.
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Also sometimes quite hungover.
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I'm in student days, so yeah, early 20s.
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That was, yeah, your student days.
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I was a bit older than you.
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I should have, I should have probably known better.
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Uh, so yeah, so we, so we, uh, so we go way back and I just like knew you was a, you know, it was like a lighting technician and a board op.
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And then all of a sudden I started seeing your name on credits for like, the lighting designer for fringe shows.
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I, I, at the time I wasn't even aware that that was something that like you were interested in doing.
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I thought that you were like a lighting technician and, uh, And then the, the calibre of the shows that you were working on just started getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
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And this all culminated in you winning an Olivier Award this year, so congratulations on that.
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Thank you.
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And also congratulations for your Knight of Illumination award, which you just showed me.
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Which is, which is on your wall, which I was very mean about.
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Because I didn't, when do you become a Knight of Illumination? Because, what, is it the ALD who gives you that? Yes, the ALD.
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It's like a kind of the ALD for theatre and things.
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And then there's also the equivalents for um, concert lighting and TV lighting.
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So it's all the different organisations came together.
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Oh.
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And you got a Knight of Illumination, which is a whacking great sword.
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It's, it's proper, it's serious.
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I mean, it's, it's not sharp, but it, It's heavy.
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It could do some damage.
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I think you could do some damage.
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If somebody broke into your flat, that's what I'd be going for.
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That's what I've been reaching for.
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I don't know, it just makes me laugh that it's called like the Night of Illumination Award.
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And then they do actually give you a weapon.
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It's like, you're not going off to fight anybody.
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Just lit some things.
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With one to take home on the tube after the, the kind of, yeah, it was a dinner award ceremony thing.
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And they had like a dummy one that you posed with the photos and then gave back and then they sent you one in the post rather than walking along the tube with a sword.
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Probably isn't the best look.
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You can a whacking great sword.
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And then of course you've got, so now you've got an Olivier, which I think is a much prettier kind of, you can hold it in your hands.
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You could probably do some damage with it still, if you wanted to.
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Um, where is your Olivier? I always like to know.
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He's on my mantelpiece in my front room, surrounded by hot plants and things.
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Well, congratulations.
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It was such a brilliant moment.
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What made it even more amazing that you won that Olivier is that statistically, John Clarke had a 50 percent chance of winning that award and you only had a 25 percent chance of winning that award.
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So I was like, that makes it even more amazing.
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Because John Clarke was nominated for two shows, and you were only nominated for one.
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So, uh, so congratulations.
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But it was a really joyous moment, and I really loved your speech.
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And because I loved it so much, um, I think we're going to listen to it.
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Oh, God.
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Have you listened, have you listened I haven't listened to it back.
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Eurovision fanboy, I can't believe I'm on stage with Hannah Waddingham.
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Um, this is fucking incredible.
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Sorry Thanks to all of you, like, that lot over there, Jamie, thanks for coming on board, our cast who are drilled to perfection because of The rubbish I made them go through.
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It's incredible.
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This is amazing.
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Thanks to everyone who's supported my career, notably teachers, my agent, Dan, um, everyone in this room who I've worked with, who are fantastic, lovely, smiling people at me right now.
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Thank you.
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Massive.
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Thanks to me.
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Massive.
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Thanks.
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Wonderful.
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It's amazing.
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Can't wait for my champagne.
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See you later.
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So your, your moment was just, it was just absolutely fantastic.
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You were absolutely buzzing to be on stage with Anna Waddingham.
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Had, it was so sweet, it was so sweet.
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And you swore as well.
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Yeah, I mean, I think that's an achievement.
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but, uh, but yeah, were you, had you like planned the speech or were you just like, I'm just going to get up and start speaking I hadn't planned a speech.
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I'd thought about people to thank and people to mention, so, like, when I, when I got the Night of Illumination, I was also up against John Clarke and Lee Curran on two, and, like, it was John for The Inheritance and Leif, I think, for Summer and Smoke and, you know, They're me for, um, Barbershop Chronicles and I, like, everyone was talking about the lighting in Inheritance and Summer of Smoke, so I was like, it's not going to be me.
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Here are two massive designers.
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So I didn't plan anything and then won and had to go up and say something.
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And what did, what did you, what did you say? Did you just kind of like mumble some things and shuffle off or did it kind of come to you in the moment? mumbled some things, thanked the kind of, the team at the Dorfman and then kind of wandered off.
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So kind of ever since then, I've kind of not planned anything.
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I want to say in a slight superstition way, um, and go, actually, don't want to write something really earnest.
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I don't want to be getting out a little scrap of paper and fumbling over it or going through my phone and failing to unlock it or something.
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I don't want to do that.
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I know there's something really nice and earnest about.
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just feeling things and it's such, it's such a weird experience getting up there.
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Um, Cause it's so big, the Royal it's huge.
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It's like, I can't imagine how huge it is.
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It's, it's insanely big and everyone's looking at you and It's so really nice, like all the lights are kept on, so you can see everyone out there.
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But then you also see everyone you know, and it's so weird, like, it's such an insular thing.
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Especially as a light designer, you work on your own so much.
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Being in a room with so many people you know, is just then so lovely.
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And suddenly you can see them all, and they're all smiling at you, and it's all really lovely.
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So yeah, it's fun.
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It was fun, and I was really glad, it was so nice that Indy was presenting it, having met her years and years ago, at the Tricycle again.
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what an amazing full circle moment.
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yeah, it's just lovely, and it's sort of like, the first thing is like, so glad it's her, and it's someone I know presenting it, which is just such a warm moment.
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Yeah, It must have been quite surreal when it was just actually happening.
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I just can't imagine what's sort of going through your head.
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Because it's just so huge.
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And, uh, you know, you've won, you've made this incredible achievement.
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but you seem to just absolutely smash it.
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Like, you seemed really, you were just really confident and you were really, funny, like all the audience were like laughing along with you and, uh, you got out your thank yous really smoothly, didn't seem to miss anybody out.
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And then you were like, now I'm going to go and, uh, and drink some champagne.
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well they like they do give you a little briefing of kind of what happens and then the press office give you a briefing and it's like and afterwards if you win you'll go down for interviews and photographs and there'll be a glass of champagne for you But they brief, so they brief all the nominees.
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Presumably.
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Because that would be quite a giveaway if they only, if they only briefed one.
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So this is what's going to happen in case you win.
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Might not, but in case you do.
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Um, oh no, it's really beautiful.
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Did you, did you stay sober up until your category? no um Because I, I'd be like, I, I can't risk getting up on stage being absolutely smashed.
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a very long day um like you we start with some drinks in the pub around the corner A good, like, three or so hours before it starts.
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And then you have to be in, and you kind of get shuffled in.
171
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But, once you're in, you're kind of not out, and you don't have bars.
172
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Had some drinks at the interval, um, Gosh, you'd put away quite a bit by the time, by the time he got up there.
173
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You've been to the pub, it was all nicely, all nicely paced.
174
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Um, also I liked, we were right at the end, it was sort of just before all the big hitting musical theater acting categories, Oh, okay.
175
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I never, like, I barely ever watch the Oliviers these days just because, um, it's not really in my schedule to, like, stop my Sunday evening with children.
176
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and watch the Olivier's, but, um, so yeah, I had no idea kind of what point of the evening it came.
177
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God, so it was, God, it was late as so, yeah.
178
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So you'd been through everything lighting and sound, and then the final four Wow.
179
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And you mentioned in your speech, you were like, thank you to the company of Sunset Boulevard, because you said like, they really got drilled.
180
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Thank you for doing everything we made them do.
181
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And I was like, what did you make them do? It's just that I never saw it, so I don't know.
182
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the, the whole show is very, um, specific and very precise and very detailed, and it's, it's very, it is Jamie Lloyd's.
183
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It's very kind of stripped back, um, kind of environment, which goes for absolutely everything in the show.
184
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So as soon as one performer was like a millimeter out of space, or like the minuscule beat out of time, it really showed.
185
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And that's, but also that's not just the performances, if a kind of a cue was a fraction of a beat late or everything was so exposing and so full on and the cast and company just really got on board with absolutely everything we were kind of asked them to do.
186
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And it's, they couldn't hide anywhere.
187
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They couldn't have an off show.
188
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Because from the photos it doesn't really look like there's a set.
189
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Is that right? Or is It's, Just, just really offending the set designer, whoever that was.
190
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Sorry, CJ.
191
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I mean it was fuck all on stage, but uh, Yeah, there's, there's no big items of scenery, so to speak and the, the space is made by kind of lots of like, lots of light.
192
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That's something like as an absolute huge amount of smoke and haze in the show.
193
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So it's all the walls and visualness is made with light in this haze.
194
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So they're performing in this incredibly hazy, smoky world.
195
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It's all kind of stripped back and it's all very kind of neatly structured and you yeah, you just, you notice absolutely everything in that space.
196
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And so, it was all just so precise and so detailed, but no one complained.
197
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Everyone got on with it and was on board, and really, really kind of understood what, what it was that was being made rather than.
198
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Kind of going, oh, it's not this, or it's not that, or it's not, yeah, don't often do things like this, but it's like really buying into what was being made.
199
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Yeah.
200
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And I saw that interview with Nicole Scherzinger that kind of went viral, you know, when she was talking about like theatre not being a joke and how full on it was.
201
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She was like, it's like I'm training for the Olympics, you know, it did, it did sound.
202
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It did sound really intense.
203
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This is the question I like never ever ask anybody because I'm not like into stars or anything.
204
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We've had so many people on this podcast who've like worked with like multitudes of famous people, but I am going to ask it.
205
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Um, what's the Korshezinga like? She's great.
206
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She's really great.
207
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She's got a really, she's got a great sense of humor.
208
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I mean, like someone who's a celebrity that big, their life is just mad.
209
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They're just sort of all over the place.
210
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It's just unbelievable how they juggle this life with all this fame.
211
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But despite all of this going on, she's got these real kind of really lovely human moments and is a really nice person and really kind of gets on board and respects everyone in such a beautiful way.
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She's a real, real joy to work with and really lovely person to know.
213
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That is, uh, that's, that's really lovely to hear.
214
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Cause, and also it's such a huge, like, thing for her, you know, having performed in stadiums all over the world and then coming to a pretty small venue and doing something so intimate, it's sort of so far removed.
215
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But every, everybody that I knew who went to see it and saw her, and it was just like, she was, completely phenomenal, as were the whole cast.
216
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So yeah, it was a shame that I, um, that I missed it.
217
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What is next for you? What have you got in the pipeline? So I, next I go and do a kind of installation y monologue y thing.
218
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Um, still haven't quite worked out how best to describe it.
219
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it's How you just described it sounded great.
220
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An installation monologue y thing.
221
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I mean, I'm there.
222
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I'm buying tickets, whatever it is.
223
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it's a, it's a kind of, um, it's a retelling of kind of Lot's wife Orpheus and Eurydice's story, um, inspired by salt marshes in Venice, and the destruction of these salt marshes, they're kind of a environmental.
224
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undertones.
225
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When's that going to be on? Venice in a sort of warehouse.
226
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Um, and then straight to the Sunset Broadway transfer after that.
227
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That's exciting.
228
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Oh, wow.
229
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Is it all the same cast or is it kind of just the leads it.
230
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But just the leads and then I don't But we've got, um, all the, all the principals are coming over.
231
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Which is kind of, yeah, it's going to be a nice, um, re gathering of everyone, I think.
232
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I smell a Tony.
233
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You never know.
234
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You never know.
235
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Why do you say that? I had Gareth Fry on a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about his Olivier's and Tony's and he said all his work dried up.
236
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after we won them.
237
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It was like everyone thought I was too busy so nobody offered me any work.
238
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I hope that you don't have fear.
239
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It doesn't have the same, I hope it doesn't have the same effect.
240
00:19:26,32.3033573 --> 00:19:28,562.3033573
So, this is obviously a, uh, podcast.
241
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I say it's obviously a podcast.
242
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You've already told me you haven't listened to one episode.
243
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So, but I did tell you the question, so hopefully you know what's coming.
244
00:19:38,712.3033573 --> 00:20:19,357.3033573
Um, so we talk about stage management a lot, obviously, and the, uh, I always found, I think, for me, I always found the relationship between light and designer and stage manager generally one of the most straightforward, I think, that Sometimes, you know, like, relationships with directors can be tricky because you're, you know, sometimes you're having to instill, like, maybe a sense of order in a rehearsal room or, you know, doing things like making sure people get full dinner breaks when people don't necessarily want to, you know, when people are stretched for time and, uh, you know, actors not always wanting to be told what to do.
245
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I'm endlessly mystified by what the sound department are doing, but the lighting department, I was always like, I don't know what you guys are up to.
246
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And I can see it.
247
00:20:29,247.3033573 --> 00:20:35,127.3033573
And when I'm in tech, and I'm like, who are we, who are we waiting for? I know whether or not we're waiting for lights.
248
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It was always very clear to me.
249
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Um, so I hope that you have that kind of same relationship.
250
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I can only imagine Jack Knowles that you are delightful to stage management you've got to be delightful to stage management.
251
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If you're not, your life just becomes an absolute nightmare.
252
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We're so lovely, but we can be vindictive.
253
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Yes, that's correct.
254
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Um, so So in saying that, um, is there a stage manager or a stage management team that really kind of stands out in your memory for the way that they have worked like with you and with your lighting team? I, I don't think any particular one has massively stood out beyond the others because so many of them are so brilliant.
255
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So, and there's actually lots of stage managers that are so fantastic, so wonderful.
256
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They all stick out for different reasons.
257
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Um, I mean, I'm, I'm kind of ever, I'm always sort of amazed by particularly DSMs who I'll send over a list to and it will just sort of be, I kind of always do.
258
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Here's, here's the overkill list of cues.
259
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Let's cut from here, but let's get everything in.
260
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So often that's not the case.
261
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And actually you end up adding and adding and adding.
262
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Or I do.
263
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Um, but they, the way they just sort of seem to understand that, and you end up kind of noting on tiny little details, and the way my brain works, I don't sort of, if I'm writing out a cue list, and I've got like lines written, the line is sort of where It's, as much as anything, it's like a reference for me where the queue is.
264
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As opposed to, I want it exactly at the end of this line every time.
265
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So sometimes it's the beginning, sometimes it's the end, sometimes it's halfway through the line, sometimes it's a move.
266
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DSM, so you can just fully get that straight away.
267
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It's just sort of my, like, I don't get how they do it.
268
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It's sort of, It's like an understanding of the show and what's been created when you haven't been created, when essentially all that's been created is in the rehearsal room rather than the whole thing in tech and they've sort of picked up on conversations and things.
269
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Um, there's like, there's a few, so like Emma Rangel in DSM, who I first met when she did Barbershop Chronicles, um, and then she also did Sunset Boulevard.
270
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She was fantastic and just sort of drifting between visual cues to musical cues to line cues to things that were dependent on different things happening and all those sort of variation and so so brilliantly kind of consistent and understanding and calm.
271
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I have to say, I don't think it's a coincidence that the two shows that you've won awards for were queued by the same person.
272
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I'm just going to throw that out there Yeah, yeah, because, you know, you can do the best lighting design in the world, but you need a DSM who's going to execute it yeah, 100%.
273
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What you create is so, um, it's so visceral and so dependent on everything else happening.
274
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It's like this sort of, there's all this talk of being an artist, but it's sort of like you're a collaborative artist with everyone, you need all this other stuff to happen to make it happen.
275
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Viewing that and timing that is so, so much a part of it too.
276
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Yeah, I think, I think that, um, it's such a huge responsibility.
277
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It's sort of one of those things that I kind of didn't realise until I'd actually been DSM ing for quite a while.
278
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Um, just the responsibility that you have as a DSM to kind of, you know, You know, and it is very collaborative to ensure that all these different visions, you know, not just the lighting designer, but the sound designer, when you're putting all those cues together, that you're making sure that, that everybody's visions are being met, you know, in every like transition scene change.
279
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And it's, it's a huge thing.
280
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And when a DSM is absolutely killing it, I think you can absolutely.
281
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You can absolutely see that happen.
282
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Definitely.
283
00:24:50,682.3023573 --> 00:24:53,222.3023573
I always, I always like hearing about great DSMs.
284
00:24:53,612.3023573 --> 00:25:01,542.3023573
Um, so, the, uh, this podcast that you've never listened to, um, is called Prompt.
285
00:25:02,317.4023573 --> 00:25:13,87.3013573
Um, and, uh, it's called prompt because of the prompt copy and prompt corner, all the stage management things, but it's also about timekeeping.
286
00:25:13,497.3023573 --> 00:25:22,732.3023573
Um, it's interesting actually, because when we worked together, when I was in my, um, like, mid twenties, um, many years ago.
287
00:25:23,62.3023573 --> 00:25:25,312.3023573
Um, I probably wasn't that prompt actually.
288
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I think it's something that actually came a lot later, you know, when you met me in my mid twenties, I think I had lots of other priorities, um, that weren't necessarily.
289
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The job that I was being paid to do.
290
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Um, but promptness is definitely something that came to me later.
291
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And then I became like a real stickler about it.
292
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I sort of went from like one extreme to the other.
293
00:25:45,202.3023573 --> 00:25:53,72.3023573
So now I'm unbelievably, um, punctual, um, in all areas of my life, except for school pickup, which is something I'm always late to.
294
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It's really, really low down priority list there.
295
00:25:58,212.3023573 --> 00:25:59,652.3023573
Um, so Jack Knowles.
296
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Are you prompt? Yes, I'd say that I am.
297
00:26:06,52.3023573 --> 00:26:08,377.3023573
Um, look slightly questioning.
298
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You were like, am I? Yes.
299
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Yes.
300
00:26:11,182.3023573 --> 00:26:21,477.3023573
yes, I, uh, it's interesting because I've, I've said this before that I don't think there's like one particular type of person who is punctual.
301
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It's not like actors are always late and creatives are always on time or vice versa, whatever.
302
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And I've worked with.
303
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So many creatives who, you know, like on a tech day are there at like 7.
304
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55, kind of, you know, ready to go, coffee in hand.
305
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And then there are the creatives who at like 9.
306
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50.
307
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You're like, are they coming? Are they going to be here? You're not entirely sure.
308
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I think, yeah, there doesn't seem to be one type of creative who's punctual or late.
309
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It's, it's a real, it's a real variety.
310
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And I don't think it doesn't matter like what kind of caliber they are, like if they're super experienced or lesser experienced.
311
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I feel that there's, or lighting or sound.
312
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Yeah.
313
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I'm just, I'm just always fascinated by it because there's such, it just seems to be such a broad spectrum of how people treat.
314
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Punctuality, especially when it comes to tech.
315
00:27:18,212.3023573 --> 00:27:32,722.3013573
I find like if you're doing like a morning session, like, if you're teching afternoon evenings, and there's the morning session, it can be quite helpful to say, I'll come in at sort of like tea time, or I'm like coming with a coffee, because then you give yourself a bit of a buffer.
316
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of when that exactly is.
317
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Right.
318
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Because when you said tea time, I was like, what, you mean like the dinner break? my tea break.
319
00:27:44,22.3023573 --> 00:27:44,422.3023573
Okay.
320
00:27:45,212.3023573 --> 00:27:46,292.3023573
You mentioned school.
321
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So yeah, that confused me.
322
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Yeah.
323
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Yeah.
324
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Yeah.
325
00:27:49,672.3023573 --> 00:27:50,332.3023573
I know what you mean.
326
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That, that morning session, I feel like is definitely, that morning session can really be open to interpretation.
327
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then at the same time, if, if time's been allocated to something and that thing then doesn't happen, it gets, it can be annoying.
328
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So you kind of go, I want to be productive in that time.
329
00:28:09,647.3023573 --> 00:28:14,607.3023573
Um, so when you're all trying to get together and do it, it's sort of nice.
330
00:28:16,37.3023573 --> 00:28:21,707.3023573
Or like if you're fighting for time, I feel like you've got to be respectful of the time you're given.
331
00:28:21,847.3023573 --> 00:28:23,627.3023573
So you don't want to lose that time.
332
00:28:24,562.3023573 --> 00:28:32,992.3023573
Yeah, you can't be hounding, you can't be hounding a production manager for like dog time and then turning up late for it.
333
00:28:33,42.3023573 --> 00:28:34,212.3023573
100%.
334
00:28:34,312.3023573 --> 00:28:35,12.3023573
And people do.
335
00:28:36,57.3013573 --> 00:28:44,557.3023573
but at the same time, I'm also, I'm always one for like, if things are going a bit behind, I don't want to force people to switch all the lights out.
336
00:28:45,147.3033573 --> 00:28:51,557.3023573
If actually giving someone an extra half hour means they'll get loads of stuff done and we'll be in a much better place.
337
00:28:52,362.3023573 --> 00:28:56,632.3023573
So, you've got to, it all takes a bit of back and forth, Yeah.
338
00:28:56,632.3023573 --> 00:29:04,172.3023573
I'm definitely, I don't like getting, starting a tech session, having walked straight through the door and sat down at my desk and put cans on and straight into it.
339
00:29:04,782.3023573 --> 00:29:07,792.3013573
I need to sort of wind up a bit psychologically to it.
340
00:29:07,892.3023573 --> 00:29:14,112.3023573
So, um, rather than a little bit before and yeah, definitely.
341
00:29:14,112.3023573 --> 00:29:24,962.3023573
Think that's how I sort of, just, just treat my, like, life and day now, how much, how better just things run if you just get up, you know, like, half an hour before.
342
00:29:24,962.3023573 --> 00:29:37,42.3023573
If you work out that you're generally always being late for something and, like, when I have actors who are, like, recurringly late, like, they're always recurringly, like, 10, 15 minutes late.
343
00:29:37,982.3023574 --> 00:29:46,612.3013574
And it's like, well, something has to change in your routine that you are starting your day 10 or 15 minutes earlier.
344
00:29:46,622.3023574 --> 00:29:52,882.3023574
And also when, even when people do get in at, you know, 9 57 or whatever, they're still not necessarily ready for work.
345
00:29:52,902.3023574 --> 00:29:58,672.3023574
They may as well have got in at 10 15 cause then you sort of have to wait for them to get themselves together.
346
00:29:59,432.3023574 --> 00:30:06,82.3023574
Um, I'm really trying to work on my, um, how accommodating I am of other people's lateness, but it's hard.
347
00:30:06,82.3023574 --> 00:30:13,947.3023574
I think it got to the point where I was like, maybe I just need to leave the industry because I'm just endlessly like, with people for being late.
348
00:30:14,497.3023574 --> 00:30:15,77.3023574
It's not good.
349
00:30:15,77.3023574 --> 00:30:16,307.3023574
It's not good for my mental health.
350
00:30:17,257.3023574 --> 00:30:19,417.3023574
Um, so gonna move on.
351
00:30:19,587.3023574 --> 00:30:23,567.3013574
Um, I am a huge fan of mistakes.
352
00:30:24,27.3023574 --> 00:30:27,907.3023574
Um, I think it's really good and healthy to make them.
353
00:30:27,987.3023574 --> 00:30:29,157.3023574
Uh, nobody's perfect.
354
00:30:29,187.3023574 --> 00:30:32,147.3023574
I think you can learn so much from your mistakes.
355
00:30:32,427.3023574 --> 00:30:36,557.3023574
Um, I think that they are, I think that they're a brilliant thing.
356
00:30:36,557.3023574 --> 00:30:51,182.2023574
And I think also in theater, we, especially like in backstage departments, especially when I was a stage manager, there could be such a culture of like passing blame, not kind of taking responsibility for what's going on.
357
00:30:51,792.3023574 --> 00:30:55,692.3023574
Mistakes that have been made, saying, you know, oh, it's because of this, or it's because of that, or it wasn't me.
358
00:30:56,192.3023574 --> 00:31:10,902.3023574
And I work in architecture now, where everyone really instills this, everyone is really passionate about owning up to your mistakes, and acknowledging them as soon as possible, so that they can be rectified as soon as possible.
359
00:31:11,222.3023574 --> 00:31:21,937.3023574
And when I first started working in architecture, I was like, this is very refreshing! Everyone was like, that was me, that was me, I did it, that was me, and I was like, oh, this is great.
360
00:31:22,467.3023574 --> 00:31:38,87.3023574
Um, so, uh, what is your biggest mistake, Jack Knowles, that you'd like to own up to and prompt? And I'm talking about theatre here, we don't need to get into like, your personal life.
361
00:31:41,452.3023574 --> 00:31:46,2.3023574
I, I, when, when you first mentioned this, I was like, Oh, that's a bit of a tricky one.
362
00:31:47,372.3023574 --> 00:31:49,142.3023574
Um, Because you haven't made any.
363
00:31:49,412.3023574 --> 00:32:00,462.3023574
Oh, because, because there are plenty, but then, like you said, it's so, it's so good to be able to, to learn, not necessarily learn from the mistake, but discover other stuff from the mistakes.
364
00:32:02,162.3023574 --> 00:32:11,262.3023574
I mean, potentially one of the biggest recent ones was, um, we, we were preparing to try a kind of smoke effect on sunset.
365
00:32:11,832.3023574 --> 00:32:15,962.3013574
And we had some quite busy afternoon sessions during previews.
366
00:32:15,972.3013574 --> 00:32:21,792.3013574
So in the morning, I'd got ready and we programmed in these fans with little smoke machines behind them.
367
00:32:23,762.3023574 --> 00:32:33,312.3023574
a moment right at the end where Smoke would just essentially blow straight into Nicole Scherzinger's face, as she sung the final lines of the show.
368
00:32:34,442.3013574 --> 00:32:38,862.3013574
it's, it's one of those tiny little moments that'll be kind of something we wanted to try, give it a go.
369
00:32:39,342.3023574 --> 00:32:48,322.3023574
Um, but we, we hadn't got to it for a couple of days because we were working on other things and those, the way those afternoon sessions sometimes run away with you.
370
00:32:48,822.3023574 --> 00:32:56,587.3023574
Um, but it was But I had it all plotted and ready to go, going, right, if we've got two minutes at the end of the session, we just need to run it and hit go.
371
00:32:56,707.3023574 --> 00:33:00,887.3023574
We don't have to sit there and spend a bit of time programming it in, we'd looked at it all.
372
00:33:01,337.3023574 --> 00:33:07,267.3013574
And, um, we didn't get to look at it, and I didn't check that we'd taken it out and it wasn't there.
373
00:33:07,577.3023574 --> 00:33:17,687.3023574
So come the end of the show, suddenly these fans kick in, orchestra totally unexpected, MD totally unexpected, smoke starts billowing into Nicole's face at the end of it.
374
00:33:19,717.3023574 --> 00:33:20,272.2023574
my god.
375
00:33:21,77.3023574 --> 00:33:26,337.3023574
So I'm then there texting the operator, going kill all this smoke, kill all this smoke, just kill it, kill it, just take it all out, um.
376
00:33:26,642.3023574 --> 00:33:46,237.3023574
Jex, I love that that was like, hold on, unlock phone, bring up whatsapp, find the chat, it's like, um, oh god, but then that also goes, like, actually, okay, we, it, we, we knew, like, actually, after that, we didn't want it.
377
00:33:46,237.4023574 --> 00:33:47,827.3013574
Great that we tried it.
378
00:33:48,67.3013574 --> 00:33:55,507.3023574
Um, What did Nicole Scherzinger think of having she, like, like, she was just so up for everything.
379
00:33:55,517.3023574 --> 00:33:58,772.3023574
She just carries on and doesn't care, and is Wow.
380
00:33:58,892.3013574 --> 00:34:06,852.3023574
Unexpected smoke being blown in her face at the end of a show, she's like, bring it on! And she, she kind of just was so on board with all of that.
381
00:34:06,882.3023574 --> 00:34:09,112.3023574
It was like, thank, like, thankfully it was her.
382
00:34:09,122.3023574 --> 00:34:14,192.3023574
If it was kind of, I can imagine so many other performers would have Absolutely hated it.
383
00:34:14,192.4023574 --> 00:34:25,192.3013574
But, I will say, I do think you're quite lucky as a lighting designer, um, in when you'll make, like, when you're technical, you've got a programmer there.
384
00:34:25,892.3023574 --> 00:34:31,277.3023574
And when you work with the same programmers, Repeatedly, and they know you.
385
00:34:31,697.3023574 --> 00:34:34,287.3023574
They will sometimes question your choices.
386
00:34:34,747.3023574 --> 00:34:49,517.3023574
Or go, are you sure you mean that? And, and, you know, it's kind of, going, are you sure you want to plot that light in through all those blackouts? And, hang on, that moment, this is happening, and we really, like, so, um, there's a bit of a safety net there.
387
00:34:49,827.3023574 --> 00:35:11,702.3023574
Um, I don't, I don't think I really realized the importance of a good lighting programmer, sort of like, like, right at the very end of my theatre career actually, and even when I sort of moved into my admin career, like, um, the last job that I did that was, you know, dealing with like employing lighting programmers and stuff.
388
00:35:11,742.3023574 --> 00:35:19,102.3013574
And I had a lot, sort of ended up having kind of more to do with them than I actually did when I was a stage manager, because sometimes we were contracting them and stuff.
389
00:35:19,102.3023574 --> 00:35:40,872.3023574
And, and I, Yeah, it really, doing that really opened my eyes to just what a huge and important job it is and how actually there is only like a handful of them who can kind of do the things that some lighting designers require.
390
00:35:41,722.3023574 --> 00:35:42,502.3023574
them to do.
391
00:35:43,32.3023574 --> 00:35:45,872.3023574
And, you know, and again, there is currently a bit of a staff.
392
00:35:46,712.3023574 --> 00:35:52,622.3023574
I've talked about this so much in previous episodes, but you wouldn't know that because you've not listened to a single one.
393
00:35:52,702.3023574 --> 00:35:57,877.3023574
Um, I'm going to go away and listen to every single one, on repeat.
394
00:35:58,667.3023574 --> 00:36:00,252.3023574
And, it's too late now, Jack.
395
00:36:01,392.4023574 --> 00:36:13,532.3023574
We've made the episode! You're meant to do it for research! Goddammit! Um, but, you know, there's so many people who are leaving the industry in droves.
396
00:36:13,902.3013574 --> 00:36:33,697.3023574
And, uh, yeah, and it feels to me like one of those, one of those roles that is getting harder and harder to kind of staff can be the the lighting programmer, you know, because there's, there's always so many shows going on and so many shows in tech, like having to get roles staffed.
397
00:36:33,937.3023574 --> 00:36:43,297.3023574
Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's really tricky, but hope, but hopefully, you know, more people are coming out of drama schools and are kind of coming up now that we're sort of moving away from COVID.
398
00:36:43,297.3023574 --> 00:36:50,597.3023574
Hopefully we'll find kind of the next new styles of the lighting programmer world, but it is such a, it's, it's, it's very similar, I think.
399
00:36:50,827.3023574 --> 00:37:23,357.3023574
from what I've seen, um, to like, being an associate, kind of the, you know, when people are like, oh, that looks good, or that looks fucking terrible, or yeah, do you mean to put that light in really like, one? I think it's a really difficult job 'cause it's all, as much as it's, um, kind of knowing all the technical stuff and knowing how desks work and how the lights work and how to make it, there's a huge sort of translation job going on and kind of making sense of what a lighting designer says.
400
00:37:24,727.3023574 --> 00:37:26,427.3023574
And how to turn that into something.
401
00:37:26,427.3023574 --> 00:37:31,867.3023574
And cause you don't, you don't like, I don't want to spend my whole days going one at full left a bit, right.
402
00:37:31,917.3023574 --> 00:37:36,57.3023574
A bit, a bit more blue, a bit more green up, down, brighter, quicker.
403
00:37:36,387.3023574 --> 00:37:47,748.3023574
Mm-Hmm of start using more descriptive words and just with all the way, kind of as technology is developing more and more and more, there's so many possibilities mm-Hmm.
404
00:37:48,2.3013574 --> 00:37:49,442.3023574
that's happening nowadays.
405
00:37:49,762.3023574 --> 00:38:05,952.3013574
And so much is kind of at fingertips, but finding ways to talk about it and how to explain it Yeah, because it's more like, it's, it's like you're the artist and they're kind of actually painting for you, you know? And it's, it is not painting by numbers.
406
00:38:05,952.3013574 --> 00:38:13,992.3013574
It has to, it's, if you were painting a picture and you were giving the instructions to somebody holding the paintbrush, you wouldn't say left a bit.
407
00:38:13,992.3013574 --> 00:38:14,232.3013574
Right.
408
00:38:14,232.3013574 --> 00:38:14,562.3013574
A bit.
409
00:38:14,562.3013574 --> 00:38:19,660.667024
There'd be you hope there'd be some that game now though.
410
00:38:19,660.667024 --> 00:38:24,817.3013574
Just sit there and go, right, I'm going to paint a picture of this lovely view I've got.
411
00:38:25,762.3013574 --> 00:38:29,192.3013574
I'm just going to say, up, down, done, right, great.
412
00:38:30,12.3013574 --> 00:38:32,132.3013574
You've made a nice brown blob, lovely.
413
00:38:32,222.3013574 --> 00:39:05,502.3013574
you got a lighting programmer that you, like, tend to use a lot, or? got a couple, I've got, um, Laura Howells, who, um, again actually is someone I met at the Tricycle, um, first show she did for me was the Riots, um, way back, oh yeah, it was like 2011, um, I've done quite a few shows, um, together, um, kind of, it's been at least, at least a show a year, if not more, um, Wow.
414
00:39:06,127.3013574 --> 00:39:29,952.3013574
you have to kind of, thing is, you end up working with them and then, then suddenly someone else has nabbed them before you, and you then go, fighting, um, and Tamika Patterson has done a few shows for me now, Yeah, it's such a vital job and I think that sometimes producers and when people are putting together a lighting team I think they just kind of go.
415
00:39:29,972.3013574 --> 00:39:42,887.3013574
Oh, we need to find a Programmer and I think it's I think people don't realize that you have to find the right programmer And yeah, but that's something that I only kind of learned like a couple of years ago.
416
00:39:43,487.3013574 --> 00:40:05,317.3013574
Um, so we're going to move on to our final question, uh, which is, again, it's a funny full circle moment for you because it is, we always ask everyone this question, what would you do if you were autistic? director of the National Theatre, and of course, Indhu Rubasingam, she presented you with your Olivier.
417
00:40:05,817.3013574 --> 00:40:13,707.3013574
Um, I think it is unlikely that you will become Artistic Director of the National Theatre, but making, making a lighting design of one, that'd be quite cool.
418
00:40:14,72.3013574 --> 00:40:15,892.3013574
You know, could do.
419
00:40:17,242.3013574 --> 00:40:19,892.3013574
But, um, but yeah, I don't think it's going to be you.
420
00:40:19,912.3013574 --> 00:40:35,147.3013574
But if, for some bizarre reason, they did decide to make you Artistic Director of the National Theatre, what would you do? Think it's, uh, a place that should be open and inviting.
421
00:40:35,957.3003574 --> 00:40:40,807.3013574
I kind of think probably one of the biggest interventions.
422
00:40:41,732.3013574 --> 00:40:57,112.3003574
would be another round at making the frontage of the building as open as possible and putting doors all the way along the front so wherever you are along the south bank you could just walk straight in rather than trying to find the entrance and heading in.
423
00:40:59,87.3013574 --> 00:41:00,897.3003574
It's funny, isn't it? That foyer bit.
424
00:41:02,227.3013574 --> 00:41:04,557.3013574
Like, other than the kind of the understudy.
425
00:41:05,527.3013574 --> 00:41:10,747.3013574
The foyer bit, considering how much glass there is, it's always weirdly gloomy.
426
00:41:11,797.3013574 --> 00:41:25,657.3013574
And I don't know why that is! I always end up going like, I can't fucking see! Like, there's so much daylight! I always think it's kind of, I don't know, like it's weirdly dark.
427
00:41:25,657.3013574 --> 00:41:36,737.3013574
You know like when you're front of house at the Young Vic, like it always just feels so bright and airy and there's, there's something about the national.
428
00:41:36,737.3013574 --> 00:41:38,117.3013574
I can never put my finger on it.
429
00:41:38,117.3013574 --> 00:41:41,567.3013574
It never feels light.
430
00:41:41,987.3003574 --> 00:42:13,487.3013574
And like you say, it's sort of, even though it's right there on the South Bank, it sort of feels weirdly I always find it feels quite, you kind of have to walk past quite a long bit of it, so you can either go to the understudy or you then go to, all the entrances are kind of, they're quite little along, there's the The food place, the kind of street foodie place, there's a little bit of an entrance, and then there's sort of the cafe bit where there's a huge kind of wall of glass, but you have to keep going to get in.
431
00:42:14,257.3013574 --> 00:42:16,747.3013574
And there's the espresso bar right at the other end.
432
00:42:17,377.3013574 --> 00:42:27,147.3013574
And again, it's just sort of, it feels like, there's sort of a couple of, I'm sure there's all sorts of safety reasons and all of that stuff.
433
00:42:27,177.3013574 --> 00:42:35,897.3013574
But making it go, oh yes, I want to head there and just be able to go straight in and just making it nice and open.
434
00:42:37,442.3013574 --> 00:42:38,32.3013574
Airy.
435
00:42:39,77.3013574 --> 00:42:42,207.3013574
That is a, that is a good answer.
436
00:42:42,257.3013574 --> 00:42:46,287.3013574
We've had such a variety of answers and I always quite like the, just like the really practical ones.
437
00:42:50,722.3013574 --> 00:42:55,12.3013574
Somebody was like, I'd serve gluten free sandwiches, I was like, great, sounds brilliant.
438
00:42:58,852.3003574 --> 00:42:59,722.3013574
Oh, right.
439
00:42:59,732.3013574 --> 00:43:02,742.3003574
Well, Jack, that concludes our interview.
440
00:43:03,952.3003574 --> 00:43:05,782.3013574
Thank you so much for coming and chatting to me.
441
00:43:05,792.3003574 --> 00:43:08,182.3003574
You're my, uh, you're my first lighting designer, actually.
442
00:43:08,202.3003574 --> 00:43:09,512.3003574
I've not had a lighting designer yet.
443
00:43:09,872.3003574 --> 00:43:13,202.3003574
And, uh, you did seem like an obvious choice.
444
00:43:13,552.3003574 --> 00:43:17,512.3003574
Um, and it's also lovely just to chat with you after all this time.
445
00:43:17,852.3013574 --> 00:43:19,422.3013574
Yeah, you too, definitely.
446
00:43:19,462.3013574 --> 00:43:22,732.3013574
thank you for showing me your, um, Your night of illumination.
447
00:43:24,192.3013574 --> 00:43:25,852.3013574
I hope you appreciate the tour of my flat.
448
00:43:25,852.4013574 --> 00:43:28,562.3013574
Take the tour of your class.
449
00:43:28,562.4013574 --> 00:43:29,822.3013574
It was great.
450
00:43:31,22.3013574 --> 00:43:32,922.3013574
Alright, thank you so much Jack.
451
00:43:35,889.3013573 --> 00:43:38,969.3013573
Oh, I had so much fun recording that.
452
00:43:39,9.3013573 --> 00:43:46,799.3013573
And then, um, usually I find editing such a drag, but editing, it just made me smile all over again.
453
00:43:46,879.3013573 --> 00:43:49,279.3013573
Um, that was such a fun episode to make.
454
00:43:49,319.3013573 --> 00:43:51,259.3003573
And, uh, Jack is such a dude.
455
00:43:51,799.3003573 --> 00:43:52,479.3013573
Love him to bits.
456
00:43:52,589.3013573 --> 00:43:54,669.3013573
Um, thank you so much for listening.
457
00:43:54,999.3013573 --> 00:43:57,889.3013573
If you enjoyed the episode, always want to hear about it.
458
00:43:57,889.3013573 --> 00:44:00,539.3013573
You can email me, promptthepodcasts at gmail.
459
00:44:00,579.3013573 --> 00:44:00,909.3013573
com.
460
00:44:00,909.3013573 --> 00:44:07,269.3013573
I'll Or you can follow me on Twitter, prompt underscore podcast, or just luciebranch.
461
00:44:07,649.3013573 --> 00:44:09,569.3013573
Uh, do always feel free to send me a message.
462
00:44:09,599.3013573 --> 00:44:16,39.3013573
Also, if you've got a show coming up that you want me to come and see, or anybody in the show that you'd like me to chat to, please do.
463
00:44:16,89.3013573 --> 00:44:20,819.3013573
Uh, we are coming to see quite a few shows over the next coming weeks, and I'd love to squeeze you in.
464
00:44:20,889.3013573 --> 00:44:21,819.3013573
All right, take care.
00:00:12,773.333333333 --> 00:00:14,363.333333333
Hello, and welcome to prompt.
2
00:00:14,603.333333333 --> 00:00:19,433.333333333
A podcast that looks at fair to, from Um perspective of me Jess and act stage manager.
3
00:00:19,823.333333333 --> 00:00:27,863.333333333
Join me as I chat to a wide range of theater practitioners about their experiences, mistakes and whether or not they are indeed prompt.
4
00:00:33,82.307266436 --> 00:00:33,802.307266436
Hello.
5
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Uh, welcome to this episode, a prompt.
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Thanks so much for joining me.
7
00:00:38,572.307266436 --> 00:00:40,462.307266436
Thank you for downloading this episode.
8
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I do hope you enjoy it.
9
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Um, I am joined today by the brilliant lighting designer, Jack Knowles.
10
00:00:47,962.307266436 --> 00:00:53,632.307266436
Um, Jack and I go back quite a long way, although we haven't spoken to each other for a very long time.
11
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Um, I first met him.
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I think about 18 years ago.
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Um, he was a board up.
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At the dry school and I was the DSM.
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Uh, and I thought he was just such a delightful, lovely human being.
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Um, No idea that he was going to, uh, go on to be one of this country's, uh, most important lines sinus, but they go.
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Um, we will get onto the episode in a minute.
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Because I think it's probably quite boring listening to me, chat on my own.
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Also, I just don't have time really for an intro today.
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Too much going on.
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Um, I did 40 sites a week that I've been thinking about a lot since, uh, I did the interview with Jack.
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So just before we started recording, um, he was in one room in his flat, and then he said, oh, do you know what the wifi is better in another room.
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So I'm going to take the laptop through, to a different room.
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I was like, okay, cool.
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And he was like, do you want a tour of my flat? I was like, always.
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And so, uh, Show me around his flat and then.
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I'm one of the walls I noticed.
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This really large sword, which wasn't really engaging with the rest of his very stylish deco.
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And I was like, whoa, what's that sword? And he was like, oh, it's my night of illumination award.
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And, uh, you know, I've heard about the night of elimination award.
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And it's given out to, to lighting designers who have made great achievements.
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Um, I'm just.
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I'm very curious as to why.
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They're dishing out actual swords.
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Um, And this kind of whole night of illumination thing.
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Because, you know, when you think of nights, you think of like courage and valor.
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And you know what I don't think about when I think about courage and.
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Lighting designers.
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And this whole concept.
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Also, if you're more kind of going to stick with this kind of like.
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Weird's cosplay.
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Nice thing.
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Surely you give them the shield.
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You don't give them.
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The offensive part of that gets up.
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You give them the defensive part of that.
47
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No.
48
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I just, yeah, I'm kind of baffled by the whole thing, but anyway, um, Jackson's on his wall is huge.
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And, uh, we do have a bit of a laugh about it later in the episode.
50
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Um, I really hope you've enjoyed this episode.
51
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I think it might be in my top three of favorite prompt episodes because it's just so much fun.
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Enjoy.
53
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Uh, hello, Jack Knowles, and welcome to Prompt.
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Thank you so much for coming on.
55
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Hello.
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Good to see you.
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Good to talk to I always pause at that point and go, thank you for coming on, because usually people go, thank you for having me, and I paused, and you didn't say anything.
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And that's was just a bit shocked you suddenly went so serious.
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And now the official voice is on.
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Took me by surprise.
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we were just like, we were just gassing before I hit record.
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So, we're sort of going to have to repeat that conversation, I'm afraid, for the sake of the tape.
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Uh, so, Jack Knowles.
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award winning lighting designer, uh, you and I met, so we've just been sort of trying to do the maths without actually admitting how old we both really are, but we met like 18, 15, 18 years ago, Around that, yeah.
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Like the, the, at the tricycle, obviously, but the whole, I'll remember, I know you're, like, I know you're from the tricycle, but I can't say I don't even know what shows we did Yeah, You were just, I just, my, my image of you is just sat in that little box at the tricycle, uh, queuing, usually quite hungover, with you next to me.
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Also sometimes quite hungover.
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I'm in student days, so yeah, early 20s.
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That was, yeah, your student days.
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I was a bit older than you.
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I should have, I should have probably known better.
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Uh, so yeah, so we, so we, uh, so we go way back and I just like knew you was a, you know, it was like a lighting technician and a board op.
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And then all of a sudden I started seeing your name on credits for like, the lighting designer for fringe shows.
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I, I, at the time I wasn't even aware that that was something that like you were interested in doing.
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I thought that you were like a lighting technician and, uh, And then the, the calibre of the shows that you were working on just started getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
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And this all culminated in you winning an Olivier Award this year, so congratulations on that.
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Thank you.
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And also congratulations for your Knight of Illumination award, which you just showed me.
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Which is, which is on your wall, which I was very mean about.
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Because I didn't, when do you become a Knight of Illumination? Because, what, is it the ALD who gives you that? Yes, the ALD.
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It's like a kind of the ALD for theatre and things.
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And then there's also the equivalents for um, concert lighting and TV lighting.
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So it's all the different organisations came together.
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Oh.
84
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And you got a Knight of Illumination, which is a whacking great sword.
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It's, it's proper, it's serious.
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I mean, it's, it's not sharp, but it, It's heavy.
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It could do some damage.
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I think you could do some damage.
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If somebody broke into your flat, that's what I'd be going for.
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That's what I've been reaching for.
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I don't know, it just makes me laugh that it's called like the Night of Illumination Award.
92
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And then they do actually give you a weapon.
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It's like, you're not going off to fight anybody.
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Just lit some things.
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With one to take home on the tube after the, the kind of, yeah, it was a dinner award ceremony thing.
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And they had like a dummy one that you posed with the photos and then gave back and then they sent you one in the post rather than walking along the tube with a sword.
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Probably isn't the best look.
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You can a whacking great sword.
99
00:07:12,287.36235735 --> 00:07:19,587.36285735
And then of course you've got, so now you've got an Olivier, which I think is a much prettier kind of, you can hold it in your hands.
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You could probably do some damage with it still, if you wanted to.
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Um, where is your Olivier? I always like to know.
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He's on my mantelpiece in my front room, surrounded by hot plants and things.
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Well, congratulations.
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It was such a brilliant moment.
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00:07:34,842.36335735 --> 00:07:49,572.36335735
What made it even more amazing that you won that Olivier is that statistically, John Clarke had a 50 percent chance of winning that award and you only had a 25 percent chance of winning that award.
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So I was like, that makes it even more amazing.
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Because John Clarke was nominated for two shows, and you were only nominated for one.
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So, uh, so congratulations.
109
00:08:00,2.36335735 --> 00:08:03,372.36335735
But it was a really joyous moment, and I really loved your speech.
110
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And because I loved it so much, um, I think we're going to listen to it.
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Oh, God.
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00:08:09,222.36335735 --> 00:08:11,667.36335735
Have you listened, have you listened I haven't listened to it back.
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00:08:18,847.56335735 --> 00:08:22,127.56335735
Eurovision fanboy, I can't believe I'm on stage with Hannah Waddingham.
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00:08:22,527.56335735 --> 00:08:25,387.56335735
Um, this is fucking incredible.
115
00:08:25,417.56235735 --> 00:08:36,507.56335735
Sorry Thanks to all of you, like, that lot over there, Jamie, thanks for coming on board, our cast who are drilled to perfection because of The rubbish I made them go through.
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It's incredible.
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This is amazing.
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Thanks to everyone who's supported my career, notably teachers, my agent, Dan, um, everyone in this room who I've worked with, who are fantastic, lovely, smiling people at me right now.
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00:08:48,537.56235735 --> 00:08:49,197.56235735
Thank you.
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00:08:49,857.56335735 --> 00:08:50,137.56335735
Massive.
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00:08:50,137.56335735 --> 00:08:50,617.56335735
Thanks to me.
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00:08:51,467.56435735 --> 00:08:51,787.56385735
Massive.
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00:08:51,787.56385735 --> 00:08:52,27.56335735
Thanks.
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Wonderful.
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It's amazing.
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Can't wait for my champagne.
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00:08:58,427.56335735 --> 00:09:01,172.40135735
See you later.
128
00:09:05,872.40135734 --> 00:09:11,212.40035734
So your, your moment was just, it was just absolutely fantastic.
129
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You were absolutely buzzing to be on stage with Anna Waddingham.
130
00:09:15,502.50035734 --> 00:09:19,562.40135734
Had, it was so sweet, it was so sweet.
131
00:09:19,752.40135734 --> 00:09:21,132.40135734
And you swore as well.
132
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Yeah, I mean, I think that's an achievement.
133
00:09:24,332.50135734 --> 00:09:33,82.50135734
but, uh, but yeah, were you, had you like planned the speech or were you just like, I'm just going to get up and start speaking I hadn't planned a speech.
134
00:09:33,112.50135734 --> 00:10:01,527.50035734
I'd thought about people to thank and people to mention, so, like, when I, when I got the Night of Illumination, I was also up against John Clarke and Lee Curran on two, and, like, it was John for The Inheritance and Leif, I think, for Summer and Smoke and, you know, They're me for, um, Barbershop Chronicles and I, like, everyone was talking about the lighting in Inheritance and Summer of Smoke, so I was like, it's not going to be me.
135
00:10:01,627.50135734 --> 00:10:04,137.50035734
Here are two massive designers.
136
00:10:04,497.50135734 --> 00:10:09,327.50135734
So I didn't plan anything and then won and had to go up and say something.
137
00:10:09,417.50135734 --> 00:10:24,207.50135734
And what did, what did you, what did you say? Did you just kind of like mumble some things and shuffle off or did it kind of come to you in the moment? mumbled some things, thanked the kind of, the team at the Dorfman and then kind of wandered off.
138
00:10:24,967.50135734 --> 00:10:28,167.50135734
So kind of ever since then, I've kind of not planned anything.
139
00:10:28,177.50135734 --> 00:10:35,637.40035734
I want to say in a slight superstition way, um, and go, actually, don't want to write something really earnest.
140
00:10:35,677.40035734 --> 00:10:43,207.40135734
I don't want to be getting out a little scrap of paper and fumbling over it or going through my phone and failing to unlock it or something.
141
00:10:43,207.40135734 --> 00:10:45,877.30035734
I don't want to do that.
142
00:10:47,157.40035734 --> 00:10:48,857.40135734
I know there's something really nice and earnest about.
143
00:10:49,427.40135734 --> 00:10:53,457.40135734
just feeling things and it's such, it's such a weird experience getting up there.
144
00:10:53,567.40135734 --> 00:10:56,877.40135734
Um, Cause it's so big, the Royal it's huge.
145
00:10:56,937.40135734 --> 00:10:59,27.40135734
It's like, I can't imagine how huge it is.
146
00:10:59,27.50135734 --> 00:11:08,437.40135734
It's, it's insanely big and everyone's looking at you and It's so really nice, like all the lights are kept on, so you can see everyone out there.
147
00:11:08,827.40135734 --> 00:11:13,717.40035734
But then you also see everyone you know, and it's so weird, like, it's such an insular thing.
148
00:11:14,157.40135734 --> 00:11:16,637.40035734
Especially as a light designer, you work on your own so much.
149
00:11:17,187.40135734 --> 00:11:21,287.40035734
Being in a room with so many people you know, is just then so lovely.
150
00:11:21,287.40135734 --> 00:11:24,617.40135734
And suddenly you can see them all, and they're all smiling at you, and it's all really lovely.
151
00:11:24,767.40135734 --> 00:11:25,717.30135734
So yeah, it's fun.
152
00:11:26,827.40135734 --> 00:11:36,257.40135734
It was fun, and I was really glad, it was so nice that Indy was presenting it, having met her years and years ago, at the Tricycle again.
153
00:11:36,617.40135734 --> 00:11:38,487.40135734
what an amazing full circle moment.
154
00:11:38,957.40135734 --> 00:11:46,207.40035734
yeah, it's just lovely, and it's sort of like, the first thing is like, so glad it's her, and it's someone I know presenting it, which is just such a warm moment.
155
00:11:47,172.40135734 --> 00:11:50,852.40135734
Yeah, It must have been quite surreal when it was just actually happening.
156
00:11:51,92.40135734 --> 00:11:53,202.40135734
I just can't imagine what's sort of going through your head.
157
00:11:53,242.40135734 --> 00:11:54,962.40135734
Because it's just so huge.
158
00:11:55,382.40135734 --> 00:12:00,292.40135734
And, uh, you know, you've won, you've made this incredible achievement.
159
00:12:00,642.40135734 --> 00:12:02,892.30235734
but you seem to just absolutely smash it.
160
00:12:02,902.30235734 --> 00:12:15,927.30235734
Like, you seemed really, you were just really confident and you were really, funny, like all the audience were like laughing along with you and, uh, you got out your thank yous really smoothly, didn't seem to miss anybody out.
161
00:12:15,957.30235734 --> 00:12:18,787.30235734
And then you were like, now I'm going to go and, uh, and drink some champagne.
162
00:12:19,642.30235734 --> 00:12:34,342.30135734
well they like they do give you a little briefing of kind of what happens and then the press office give you a briefing and it's like and afterwards if you win you'll go down for interviews and photographs and there'll be a glass of champagne for you But they brief, so they brief all the nominees.
163
00:12:34,782.30235734 --> 00:12:35,502.30235734
Presumably.
164
00:12:35,612.30235734 --> 00:12:40,602.30235734
Because that would be quite a giveaway if they only, if they only briefed one.
165
00:12:41,872.30235734 --> 00:12:43,992.30135734
So this is what's going to happen in case you win.
166
00:12:44,312.30235734 --> 00:12:46,282.30235734
Might not, but in case you do.
167
00:12:46,832.30235734 --> 00:12:49,272.30235734
Um, oh no, it's really beautiful.
168
00:12:49,282.30235734 --> 00:13:02,292.30235734
Did you, did you stay sober up until your category? no um Because I, I'd be like, I, I can't risk getting up on stage being absolutely smashed.
169
00:13:02,337.30235734 --> 00:13:11,77.30235734
a very long day um like you we start with some drinks in the pub around the corner A good, like, three or so hours before it starts.
170
00:13:11,867.30235734 --> 00:13:14,37.30235734
And then you have to be in, and you kind of get shuffled in.
171
00:13:14,47.30235734 --> 00:13:17,827.30235734
But, once you're in, you're kind of not out, and you don't have bars.
172
00:13:17,867.30235734 --> 00:13:25,592.30235734
Had some drinks at the interval, um, Gosh, you'd put away quite a bit by the time, by the time he got up there.
173
00:13:26,122.30235734 --> 00:13:30,407.30135734
You've been to the pub, it was all nicely, all nicely paced.
174
00:13:31,327.30235734 --> 00:13:41,682.30235734
Um, also I liked, we were right at the end, it was sort of just before all the big hitting musical theater acting categories, Oh, okay.
175
00:13:41,682.30235734 --> 00:13:50,142.30235734
I never, like, I barely ever watch the Oliviers these days just because, um, it's not really in my schedule to, like, stop my Sunday evening with children.
176
00:13:50,667.30235734 --> 00:13:54,967.30235734
and watch the Olivier's, but, um, so yeah, I had no idea kind of what point of the evening it came.
177
00:13:55,7.30235734 --> 00:13:57,457.30235734
God, so it was, God, it was late as so, yeah.
178
00:13:57,457.30235734 --> 00:14:03,77.30235734
So you'd been through everything lighting and sound, and then the final four Wow.
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And you mentioned in your speech, you were like, thank you to the company of Sunset Boulevard, because you said like, they really got drilled.
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Thank you for doing everything we made them do.
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And I was like, what did you make them do? It's just that I never saw it, so I don't know.
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the, the whole show is very, um, specific and very precise and very detailed, and it's, it's very, it is Jamie Lloyd's.
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It's very kind of stripped back, um, kind of environment, which goes for absolutely everything in the show.
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So as soon as one performer was like a millimeter out of space, or like the minuscule beat out of time, it really showed.
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And that's, but also that's not just the performances, if a kind of a cue was a fraction of a beat late or everything was so exposing and so full on and the cast and company just really got on board with absolutely everything we were kind of asked them to do.
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And it's, they couldn't hide anywhere.
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They couldn't have an off show.
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Because from the photos it doesn't really look like there's a set.
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Is that right? Or is It's, Just, just really offending the set designer, whoever that was.
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Sorry, CJ.
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I mean it was fuck all on stage, but uh, Yeah, there's, there's no big items of scenery, so to speak and the, the space is made by kind of lots of like, lots of light.
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That's something like as an absolute huge amount of smoke and haze in the show.
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So it's all the walls and visualness is made with light in this haze.
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So they're performing in this incredibly hazy, smoky world.
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It's all kind of stripped back and it's all very kind of neatly structured and you yeah, you just, you notice absolutely everything in that space.
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And so, it was all just so precise and so detailed, but no one complained.
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Everyone got on with it and was on board, and really, really kind of understood what, what it was that was being made rather than.
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Kind of going, oh, it's not this, or it's not that, or it's not, yeah, don't often do things like this, but it's like really buying into what was being made.
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Yeah.
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And I saw that interview with Nicole Scherzinger that kind of went viral, you know, when she was talking about like theatre not being a joke and how full on it was.
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She was like, it's like I'm training for the Olympics, you know, it did, it did sound.
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It did sound really intense.
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This is the question I like never ever ask anybody because I'm not like into stars or anything.
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We've had so many people on this podcast who've like worked with like multitudes of famous people, but I am going to ask it.
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Um, what's the Korshezinga like? She's great.
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She's really great.
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She's got a really, she's got a great sense of humor.
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I mean, like someone who's a celebrity that big, their life is just mad.
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They're just sort of all over the place.
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It's just unbelievable how they juggle this life with all this fame.
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But despite all of this going on, she's got these real kind of really lovely human moments and is a really nice person and really kind of gets on board and respects everyone in such a beautiful way.
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She's a real, real joy to work with and really lovely person to know.
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That is, uh, that's, that's really lovely to hear.
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Cause, and also it's such a huge, like, thing for her, you know, having performed in stadiums all over the world and then coming to a pretty small venue and doing something so intimate, it's sort of so far removed.
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But every, everybody that I knew who went to see it and saw her, and it was just like, she was, completely phenomenal, as were the whole cast.
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So yeah, it was a shame that I, um, that I missed it.
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What is next for you? What have you got in the pipeline? So I, next I go and do a kind of installation y monologue y thing.
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Um, still haven't quite worked out how best to describe it.
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it's How you just described it sounded great.
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An installation monologue y thing.
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I mean, I'm there.
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I'm buying tickets, whatever it is.
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it's a, it's a kind of, um, it's a retelling of kind of Lot's wife Orpheus and Eurydice's story, um, inspired by salt marshes in Venice, and the destruction of these salt marshes, they're kind of a environmental.
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undertones.
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When's that going to be on? Venice in a sort of warehouse.
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Um, and then straight to the Sunset Broadway transfer after that.
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That's exciting.
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Oh, wow.
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Is it all the same cast or is it kind of just the leads it.
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But just the leads and then I don't But we've got, um, all the, all the principals are coming over.
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Which is kind of, yeah, it's going to be a nice, um, re gathering of everyone, I think.
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I smell a Tony.
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You never know.
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You never know.
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Why do you say that? I had Gareth Fry on a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about his Olivier's and Tony's and he said all his work dried up.
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after we won them.
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It was like everyone thought I was too busy so nobody offered me any work.
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I hope that you don't have fear.
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It doesn't have the same, I hope it doesn't have the same effect.
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So, this is obviously a, uh, podcast.
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I say it's obviously a podcast.
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You've already told me you haven't listened to one episode.
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So, but I did tell you the question, so hopefully you know what's coming.
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Um, so we talk about stage management a lot, obviously, and the, uh, I always found, I think, for me, I always found the relationship between light and designer and stage manager generally one of the most straightforward, I think, that Sometimes, you know, like, relationships with directors can be tricky because you're, you know, sometimes you're having to instill, like, maybe a sense of order in a rehearsal room or, you know, doing things like making sure people get full dinner breaks when people don't necessarily want to, you know, when people are stretched for time and, uh, you know, actors not always wanting to be told what to do.
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I'm endlessly mystified by what the sound department are doing, but the lighting department, I was always like, I don't know what you guys are up to.
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And I can see it.
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And when I'm in tech, and I'm like, who are we, who are we waiting for? I know whether or not we're waiting for lights.
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It was always very clear to me.
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Um, so I hope that you have that kind of same relationship.
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I can only imagine Jack Knowles that you are delightful to stage management you've got to be delightful to stage management.
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If you're not, your life just becomes an absolute nightmare.
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We're so lovely, but we can be vindictive.
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Yes, that's correct.
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Um, so So in saying that, um, is there a stage manager or a stage management team that really kind of stands out in your memory for the way that they have worked like with you and with your lighting team? I, I don't think any particular one has massively stood out beyond the others because so many of them are so brilliant.
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So, and there's actually lots of stage managers that are so fantastic, so wonderful.
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They all stick out for different reasons.
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Um, I mean, I'm, I'm kind of ever, I'm always sort of amazed by particularly DSMs who I'll send over a list to and it will just sort of be, I kind of always do.
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Here's, here's the overkill list of cues.
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Let's cut from here, but let's get everything in.
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So often that's not the case.
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And actually you end up adding and adding and adding.
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Or I do.
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Um, but they, the way they just sort of seem to understand that, and you end up kind of noting on tiny little details, and the way my brain works, I don't sort of, if I'm writing out a cue list, and I've got like lines written, the line is sort of where It's, as much as anything, it's like a reference for me where the queue is.
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As opposed to, I want it exactly at the end of this line every time.
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So sometimes it's the beginning, sometimes it's the end, sometimes it's halfway through the line, sometimes it's a move.
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DSM, so you can just fully get that straight away.
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It's just sort of my, like, I don't get how they do it.
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It's sort of, It's like an understanding of the show and what's been created when you haven't been created, when essentially all that's been created is in the rehearsal room rather than the whole thing in tech and they've sort of picked up on conversations and things.
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Um, there's like, there's a few, so like Emma Rangel in DSM, who I first met when she did Barbershop Chronicles, um, and then she also did Sunset Boulevard.
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She was fantastic and just sort of drifting between visual cues to musical cues to line cues to things that were dependent on different things happening and all those sort of variation and so so brilliantly kind of consistent and understanding and calm.
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I have to say, I don't think it's a coincidence that the two shows that you've won awards for were queued by the same person.
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I'm just going to throw that out there Yeah, yeah, because, you know, you can do the best lighting design in the world, but you need a DSM who's going to execute it yeah, 100%.
273
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What you create is so, um, it's so visceral and so dependent on everything else happening.
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It's like this sort of, there's all this talk of being an artist, but it's sort of like you're a collaborative artist with everyone, you need all this other stuff to happen to make it happen.
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Viewing that and timing that is so, so much a part of it too.
276
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Yeah, I think, I think that, um, it's such a huge responsibility.
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It's sort of one of those things that I kind of didn't realise until I'd actually been DSM ing for quite a while.
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Um, just the responsibility that you have as a DSM to kind of, you know, You know, and it is very collaborative to ensure that all these different visions, you know, not just the lighting designer, but the sound designer, when you're putting all those cues together, that you're making sure that, that everybody's visions are being met, you know, in every like transition scene change.
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And it's, it's a huge thing.
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And when a DSM is absolutely killing it, I think you can absolutely.
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You can absolutely see that happen.
282
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Definitely.
283
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I always, I always like hearing about great DSMs.
284
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Um, so, the, uh, this podcast that you've never listened to, um, is called Prompt.
285
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Um, and, uh, it's called prompt because of the prompt copy and prompt corner, all the stage management things, but it's also about timekeeping.
286
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Um, it's interesting actually, because when we worked together, when I was in my, um, like, mid twenties, um, many years ago.
287
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Um, I probably wasn't that prompt actually.
288
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I think it's something that actually came a lot later, you know, when you met me in my mid twenties, I think I had lots of other priorities, um, that weren't necessarily.
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The job that I was being paid to do.
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Um, but promptness is definitely something that came to me later.
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And then I became like a real stickler about it.
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I sort of went from like one extreme to the other.
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So now I'm unbelievably, um, punctual, um, in all areas of my life, except for school pickup, which is something I'm always late to.
294
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It's really, really low down priority list there.
295
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Um, so Jack Knowles.
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Are you prompt? Yes, I'd say that I am.
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Um, look slightly questioning.
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You were like, am I? Yes.
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Yes.
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yes, I, uh, it's interesting because I've, I've said this before that I don't think there's like one particular type of person who is punctual.
301
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It's not like actors are always late and creatives are always on time or vice versa, whatever.
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And I've worked with.
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So many creatives who, you know, like on a tech day are there at like 7.
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55, kind of, you know, ready to go, coffee in hand.
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And then there are the creatives who at like 9.
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50.
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You're like, are they coming? Are they going to be here? You're not entirely sure.
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I think, yeah, there doesn't seem to be one type of creative who's punctual or late.
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It's, it's a real, it's a real variety.
310
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And I don't think it doesn't matter like what kind of caliber they are, like if they're super experienced or lesser experienced.
311
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I feel that there's, or lighting or sound.
312
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Yeah.
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I'm just, I'm just always fascinated by it because there's such, it just seems to be such a broad spectrum of how people treat.
314
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Punctuality, especially when it comes to tech.
315
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I find like if you're doing like a morning session, like, if you're teching afternoon evenings, and there's the morning session, it can be quite helpful to say, I'll come in at sort of like tea time, or I'm like coming with a coffee, because then you give yourself a bit of a buffer.
316
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of when that exactly is.
317
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Right.
318
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Because when you said tea time, I was like, what, you mean like the dinner break? my tea break.
319
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Okay.
320
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You mentioned school.
321
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So yeah, that confused me.
322
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Yeah.
323
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Yeah.
324
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Yeah.
325
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I know what you mean.
326
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That, that morning session, I feel like is definitely, that morning session can really be open to interpretation.
327
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then at the same time, if, if time's been allocated to something and that thing then doesn't happen, it gets, it can be annoying.
328
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So you kind of go, I want to be productive in that time.
329
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Um, so when you're all trying to get together and do it, it's sort of nice.
330
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Or like if you're fighting for time, I feel like you've got to be respectful of the time you're given.
331
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So you don't want to lose that time.
332
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Yeah, you can't be hounding, you can't be hounding a production manager for like dog time and then turning up late for it.
333
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100%.
334
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And people do.
335
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but at the same time, I'm also, I'm always one for like, if things are going a bit behind, I don't want to force people to switch all the lights out.
336
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If actually giving someone an extra half hour means they'll get loads of stuff done and we'll be in a much better place.
337
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So, you've got to, it all takes a bit of back and forth, Yeah.
338
00:28:56,632.3023573 --> 00:29:04,172.3023573
I'm definitely, I don't like getting, starting a tech session, having walked straight through the door and sat down at my desk and put cans on and straight into it.
339
00:29:04,782.3023573 --> 00:29:07,792.3013573
I need to sort of wind up a bit psychologically to it.
340
00:29:07,892.3023573 --> 00:29:14,112.3023573
So, um, rather than a little bit before and yeah, definitely.
341
00:29:14,112.3023573 --> 00:29:24,962.3023573
Think that's how I sort of, just, just treat my, like, life and day now, how much, how better just things run if you just get up, you know, like, half an hour before.
342
00:29:24,962.3023573 --> 00:29:37,42.3023573
If you work out that you're generally always being late for something and, like, when I have actors who are, like, recurringly late, like, they're always recurringly, like, 10, 15 minutes late.
343
00:29:37,982.3023574 --> 00:29:46,612.3013574
And it's like, well, something has to change in your routine that you are starting your day 10 or 15 minutes earlier.
344
00:29:46,622.3023574 --> 00:29:52,882.3023574
And also when, even when people do get in at, you know, 9 57 or whatever, they're still not necessarily ready for work.
345
00:29:52,902.3023574 --> 00:29:58,672.3023574
They may as well have got in at 10 15 cause then you sort of have to wait for them to get themselves together.
346
00:29:59,432.3023574 --> 00:30:06,82.3023574
Um, I'm really trying to work on my, um, how accommodating I am of other people's lateness, but it's hard.
347
00:30:06,82.3023574 --> 00:30:13,947.3023574
I think it got to the point where I was like, maybe I just need to leave the industry because I'm just endlessly like, with people for being late.
348
00:30:14,497.3023574 --> 00:30:15,77.3023574
It's not good.
349
00:30:15,77.3023574 --> 00:30:16,307.3023574
It's not good for my mental health.
350
00:30:17,257.3023574 --> 00:30:19,417.3023574
Um, so gonna move on.
351
00:30:19,587.3023574 --> 00:30:23,567.3013574
Um, I am a huge fan of mistakes.
352
00:30:24,27.3023574 --> 00:30:27,907.3023574
Um, I think it's really good and healthy to make them.
353
00:30:27,987.3023574 --> 00:30:29,157.3023574
Uh, nobody's perfect.
354
00:30:29,187.3023574 --> 00:30:32,147.3023574
I think you can learn so much from your mistakes.
355
00:30:32,427.3023574 --> 00:30:36,557.3023574
Um, I think that they are, I think that they're a brilliant thing.
356
00:30:36,557.3023574 --> 00:30:51,182.2023574
And I think also in theater, we, especially like in backstage departments, especially when I was a stage manager, there could be such a culture of like passing blame, not kind of taking responsibility for what's going on.
357
00:30:51,792.3023574 --> 00:30:55,692.3023574
Mistakes that have been made, saying, you know, oh, it's because of this, or it's because of that, or it wasn't me.
358
00:30:56,192.3023574 --> 00:31:10,902.3023574
And I work in architecture now, where everyone really instills this, everyone is really passionate about owning up to your mistakes, and acknowledging them as soon as possible, so that they can be rectified as soon as possible.
359
00:31:11,222.3023574 --> 00:31:21,937.3023574
And when I first started working in architecture, I was like, this is very refreshing! Everyone was like, that was me, that was me, I did it, that was me, and I was like, oh, this is great.
360
00:31:22,467.3023574 --> 00:31:38,87.3023574
Um, so, uh, what is your biggest mistake, Jack Knowles, that you'd like to own up to and prompt? And I'm talking about theatre here, we don't need to get into like, your personal life.
361
00:31:41,452.3023574 --> 00:31:46,2.3023574
I, I, when, when you first mentioned this, I was like, Oh, that's a bit of a tricky one.
362
00:31:47,372.3023574 --> 00:31:49,142.3023574
Um, Because you haven't made any.
363
00:31:49,412.3023574 --> 00:32:00,462.3023574
Oh, because, because there are plenty, but then, like you said, it's so, it's so good to be able to, to learn, not necessarily learn from the mistake, but discover other stuff from the mistakes.
364
00:32:02,162.3023574 --> 00:32:11,262.3023574
I mean, potentially one of the biggest recent ones was, um, we, we were preparing to try a kind of smoke effect on sunset.
365
00:32:11,832.3023574 --> 00:32:15,962.3013574
And we had some quite busy afternoon sessions during previews.
366
00:32:15,972.3013574 --> 00:32:21,792.3013574
So in the morning, I'd got ready and we programmed in these fans with little smoke machines behind them.
367
00:32:23,762.3023574 --> 00:32:33,312.3023574
a moment right at the end where Smoke would just essentially blow straight into Nicole Scherzinger's face, as she sung the final lines of the show.
368
00:32:34,442.3013574 --> 00:32:38,862.3013574
it's, it's one of those tiny little moments that'll be kind of something we wanted to try, give it a go.
369
00:32:39,342.3023574 --> 00:32:48,322.3023574
Um, but we, we hadn't got to it for a couple of days because we were working on other things and those, the way those afternoon sessions sometimes run away with you.
370
00:32:48,822.3023574 --> 00:32:56,587.3023574
Um, but it was But I had it all plotted and ready to go, going, right, if we've got two minutes at the end of the session, we just need to run it and hit go.
371
00:32:56,707.3023574 --> 00:33:00,887.3023574
We don't have to sit there and spend a bit of time programming it in, we'd looked at it all.
372
00:33:01,337.3023574 --> 00:33:07,267.3013574
And, um, we didn't get to look at it, and I didn't check that we'd taken it out and it wasn't there.
373
00:33:07,577.3023574 --> 00:33:17,687.3023574
So come the end of the show, suddenly these fans kick in, orchestra totally unexpected, MD totally unexpected, smoke starts billowing into Nicole's face at the end of it.
374
00:33:19,717.3023574 --> 00:33:20,272.2023574
my god.
375
00:33:21,77.3023574 --> 00:33:26,337.3023574
So I'm then there texting the operator, going kill all this smoke, kill all this smoke, just kill it, kill it, just take it all out, um.
376
00:33:26,642.3023574 --> 00:33:46,237.3023574
Jex, I love that that was like, hold on, unlock phone, bring up whatsapp, find the chat, it's like, um, oh god, but then that also goes, like, actually, okay, we, it, we, we knew, like, actually, after that, we didn't want it.
377
00:33:46,237.4023574 --> 00:33:47,827.3013574
Great that we tried it.
378
00:33:48,67.3013574 --> 00:33:55,507.3023574
Um, What did Nicole Scherzinger think of having she, like, like, she was just so up for everything.
379
00:33:55,517.3023574 --> 00:33:58,772.3023574
She just carries on and doesn't care, and is Wow.
380
00:33:58,892.3013574 --> 00:34:06,852.3023574
Unexpected smoke being blown in her face at the end of a show, she's like, bring it on! And she, she kind of just was so on board with all of that.
381
00:34:06,882.3023574 --> 00:34:09,112.3023574
It was like, thank, like, thankfully it was her.
382
00:34:09,122.3023574 --> 00:34:14,192.3023574
If it was kind of, I can imagine so many other performers would have Absolutely hated it.
383
00:34:14,192.4023574 --> 00:34:25,192.3013574
But, I will say, I do think you're quite lucky as a lighting designer, um, in when you'll make, like, when you're technical, you've got a programmer there.
384
00:34:25,892.3023574 --> 00:34:31,277.3023574
And when you work with the same programmers, Repeatedly, and they know you.
385
00:34:31,697.3023574 --> 00:34:34,287.3023574
They will sometimes question your choices.
386
00:34:34,747.3023574 --> 00:34:49,517.3023574
Or go, are you sure you mean that? And, and, you know, it's kind of, going, are you sure you want to plot that light in through all those blackouts? And, hang on, that moment, this is happening, and we really, like, so, um, there's a bit of a safety net there.
387
00:34:49,827.3023574 --> 00:35:11,702.3023574
Um, I don't, I don't think I really realized the importance of a good lighting programmer, sort of like, like, right at the very end of my theatre career actually, and even when I sort of moved into my admin career, like, um, the last job that I did that was, you know, dealing with like employing lighting programmers and stuff.
388
00:35:11,742.3023574 --> 00:35:19,102.3013574
And I had a lot, sort of ended up having kind of more to do with them than I actually did when I was a stage manager, because sometimes we were contracting them and stuff.
389
00:35:19,102.3023574 --> 00:35:40,872.3023574
And, and I, Yeah, it really, doing that really opened my eyes to just what a huge and important job it is and how actually there is only like a handful of them who can kind of do the things that some lighting designers require.
390
00:35:41,722.3023574 --> 00:35:42,502.3023574
them to do.
391
00:35:43,32.3023574 --> 00:35:45,872.3023574
And, you know, and again, there is currently a bit of a staff.
392
00:35:46,712.3023574 --> 00:35:52,622.3023574
I've talked about this so much in previous episodes, but you wouldn't know that because you've not listened to a single one.
393
00:35:52,702.3023574 --> 00:35:57,877.3023574
Um, I'm going to go away and listen to every single one, on repeat.
394
00:35:58,667.3023574 --> 00:36:00,252.3023574
And, it's too late now, Jack.
395
00:36:01,392.4023574 --> 00:36:13,532.3023574
We've made the episode! You're meant to do it for research! Goddammit! Um, but, you know, there's so many people who are leaving the industry in droves.
396
00:36:13,902.3013574 --> 00:36:33,697.3023574
And, uh, yeah, and it feels to me like one of those, one of those roles that is getting harder and harder to kind of staff can be the the lighting programmer, you know, because there's, there's always so many shows going on and so many shows in tech, like having to get roles staffed.
397
00:36:33,937.3023574 --> 00:36:43,297.3023574
Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's really tricky, but hope, but hopefully, you know, more people are coming out of drama schools and are kind of coming up now that we're sort of moving away from COVID.
398
00:36:43,297.3023574 --> 00:36:50,597.3023574
Hopefully we'll find kind of the next new styles of the lighting programmer world, but it is such a, it's, it's, it's very similar, I think.
399
00:36:50,827.3023574 --> 00:37:23,357.3023574
from what I've seen, um, to like, being an associate, kind of the, you know, when people are like, oh, that looks good, or that looks fucking terrible, or yeah, do you mean to put that light in really like, one? I think it's a really difficult job 'cause it's all, as much as it's, um, kind of knowing all the technical stuff and knowing how desks work and how the lights work and how to make it, there's a huge sort of translation job going on and kind of making sense of what a lighting designer says.
400
00:37:24,727.3023574 --> 00:37:26,427.3023574
And how to turn that into something.
401
00:37:26,427.3023574 --> 00:37:31,867.3023574
And cause you don't, you don't like, I don't want to spend my whole days going one at full left a bit, right.
402
00:37:31,917.3023574 --> 00:37:36,57.3023574
A bit, a bit more blue, a bit more green up, down, brighter, quicker.
403
00:37:36,387.3023574 --> 00:37:47,748.3023574
Mm-Hmm of start using more descriptive words and just with all the way, kind of as technology is developing more and more and more, there's so many possibilities mm-Hmm.
404
00:37:48,2.3013574 --> 00:37:49,442.3023574
that's happening nowadays.
405
00:37:49,762.3023574 --> 00:38:05,952.3013574
And so much is kind of at fingertips, but finding ways to talk about it and how to explain it Yeah, because it's more like, it's, it's like you're the artist and they're kind of actually painting for you, you know? And it's, it is not painting by numbers.
406
00:38:05,952.3013574 --> 00:38:13,992.3013574
It has to, it's, if you were painting a picture and you were giving the instructions to somebody holding the paintbrush, you wouldn't say left a bit.
407
00:38:13,992.3013574 --> 00:38:14,232.3013574
Right.
408
00:38:14,232.3013574 --> 00:38:14,562.3013574
A bit.
409
00:38:14,562.3013574 --> 00:38:19,660.667024
There'd be you hope there'd be some that game now though.
410
00:38:19,660.667024 --> 00:38:24,817.3013574
Just sit there and go, right, I'm going to paint a picture of this lovely view I've got.
411
00:38:25,762.3013574 --> 00:38:29,192.3013574
I'm just going to say, up, down, done, right, great.
412
00:38:30,12.3013574 --> 00:38:32,132.3013574
You've made a nice brown blob, lovely.
413
00:38:32,222.3013574 --> 00:39:05,502.3013574
you got a lighting programmer that you, like, tend to use a lot, or? got a couple, I've got, um, Laura Howells, who, um, again actually is someone I met at the Tricycle, um, first show she did for me was the Riots, um, way back, oh yeah, it was like 2011, um, I've done quite a few shows, um, together, um, kind of, it's been at least, at least a show a year, if not more, um, Wow.
414
00:39:06,127.3013574 --> 00:39:29,952.3013574
you have to kind of, thing is, you end up working with them and then, then suddenly someone else has nabbed them before you, and you then go, fighting, um, and Tamika Patterson has done a few shows for me now, Yeah, it's such a vital job and I think that sometimes producers and when people are putting together a lighting team I think they just kind of go.
415
00:39:29,972.3013574 --> 00:39:42,887.3013574
Oh, we need to find a Programmer and I think it's I think people don't realize that you have to find the right programmer And yeah, but that's something that I only kind of learned like a couple of years ago.
416
00:39:43,487.3013574 --> 00:40:05,317.3013574
Um, so we're going to move on to our final question, uh, which is, again, it's a funny full circle moment for you because it is, we always ask everyone this question, what would you do if you were autistic? director of the National Theatre, and of course, Indhu Rubasingam, she presented you with your Olivier.
417
00:40:05,817.3013574 --> 00:40:13,707.3013574
Um, I think it is unlikely that you will become Artistic Director of the National Theatre, but making, making a lighting design of one, that'd be quite cool.
418
00:40:14,72.3013574 --> 00:40:15,892.3013574
You know, could do.
419
00:40:17,242.3013574 --> 00:40:19,892.3013574
But, um, but yeah, I don't think it's going to be you.
420
00:40:19,912.3013574 --> 00:40:35,147.3013574
But if, for some bizarre reason, they did decide to make you Artistic Director of the National Theatre, what would you do? Think it's, uh, a place that should be open and inviting.
421
00:40:35,957.3003574 --> 00:40:40,807.3013574
I kind of think probably one of the biggest interventions.
422
00:40:41,732.3013574 --> 00:40:57,112.3003574
would be another round at making the frontage of the building as open as possible and putting doors all the way along the front so wherever you are along the south bank you could just walk straight in rather than trying to find the entrance and heading in.
423
00:40:59,87.3013574 --> 00:41:00,897.3003574
It's funny, isn't it? That foyer bit.
424
00:41:02,227.3013574 --> 00:41:04,557.3013574
Like, other than the kind of the understudy.
425
00:41:05,527.3013574 --> 00:41:10,747.3013574
The foyer bit, considering how much glass there is, it's always weirdly gloomy.
426
00:41:11,797.3013574 --> 00:41:25,657.3013574
And I don't know why that is! I always end up going like, I can't fucking see! Like, there's so much daylight! I always think it's kind of, I don't know, like it's weirdly dark.
427
00:41:25,657.3013574 --> 00:41:36,737.3013574
You know like when you're front of house at the Young Vic, like it always just feels so bright and airy and there's, there's something about the national.
428
00:41:36,737.3013574 --> 00:41:38,117.3013574
I can never put my finger on it.
429
00:41:38,117.3013574 --> 00:41:41,567.3013574
It never feels light.
430
00:41:41,987.3003574 --> 00:42:13,487.3013574
And like you say, it's sort of, even though it's right there on the South Bank, it sort of feels weirdly I always find it feels quite, you kind of have to walk past quite a long bit of it, so you can either go to the understudy or you then go to, all the entrances are kind of, they're quite little along, there's the The food place, the kind of street foodie place, there's a little bit of an entrance, and then there's sort of the cafe bit where there's a huge kind of wall of glass, but you have to keep going to get in.
431
00:42:14,257.3013574 --> 00:42:16,747.3013574
And there's the espresso bar right at the other end.
432
00:42:17,377.3013574 --> 00:42:27,147.3013574
And again, it's just sort of, it feels like, there's sort of a couple of, I'm sure there's all sorts of safety reasons and all of that stuff.
433
00:42:27,177.3013574 --> 00:42:35,897.3013574
But making it go, oh yes, I want to head there and just be able to go straight in and just making it nice and open.
434
00:42:37,442.3013574 --> 00:42:38,32.3013574
Airy.
435
00:42:39,77.3013574 --> 00:42:42,207.3013574
That is a, that is a good answer.
436
00:42:42,257.3013574 --> 00:42:46,287.3013574
We've had such a variety of answers and I always quite like the, just like the really practical ones.
437
00:42:50,722.3013574 --> 00:42:55,12.3013574
Somebody was like, I'd serve gluten free sandwiches, I was like, great, sounds brilliant.
438
00:42:58,852.3003574 --> 00:42:59,722.3013574
Oh, right.
439
00:42:59,732.3013574 --> 00:43:02,742.3003574
Well, Jack, that concludes our interview.
440
00:43:03,952.3003574 --> 00:43:05,782.3013574
Thank you so much for coming and chatting to me.
441
00:43:05,792.3003574 --> 00:43:08,182.3003574
You're my, uh, you're my first lighting designer, actually.
442
00:43:08,202.3003574 --> 00:43:09,512.3003574
I've not had a lighting designer yet.
443
00:43:09,872.3003574 --> 00:43:13,202.3003574
And, uh, you did seem like an obvious choice.
444
00:43:13,552.3003574 --> 00:43:17,512.3003574
Um, and it's also lovely just to chat with you after all this time.
445
00:43:17,852.3013574 --> 00:43:19,422.3013574
Yeah, you too, definitely.
446
00:43:19,462.3013574 --> 00:43:22,732.3013574
thank you for showing me your, um, Your night of illumination.
447
00:43:24,192.3013574 --> 00:43:25,852.3013574
I hope you appreciate the tour of my flat.
448
00:43:25,852.4013574 --> 00:43:28,562.3013574
Take the tour of your class.
449
00:43:28,562.4013574 --> 00:43:29,822.3013574
It was great.
450
00:43:31,22.3013574 --> 00:43:32,922.3013574
Alright, thank you so much Jack.
451
00:43:35,889.3013573 --> 00:43:38,969.3013573
Oh, I had so much fun recording that.
452
00:43:39,9.3013573 --> 00:43:46,799.3013573
And then, um, usually I find editing such a drag, but editing, it just made me smile all over again.
453
00:43:46,879.3013573 --> 00:43:49,279.3013573
Um, that was such a fun episode to make.
454
00:43:49,319.3013573 --> 00:43:51,259.3003573
And, uh, Jack is such a dude.
455
00:43:51,799.3003573 --> 00:43:52,479.3013573
Love him to bits.
456
00:43:52,589.3013573 --> 00:43:54,669.3013573
Um, thank you so much for listening.
457
00:43:54,999.3013573 --> 00:43:57,889.3013573
If you enjoyed the episode, always want to hear about it.
458
00:43:57,889.3013573 --> 00:44:00,539.3013573
You can email me, promptthepodcasts at gmail.
459
00:44:00,579.3013573 --> 00:44:00,909.3013573
com.
460
00:44:00,909.3013573 --> 00:44:07,269.3013573
I'll Or you can follow me on Twitter, prompt underscore podcast, or just luciebranch.
461
00:44:07,649.3013573 --> 00:44:09,569.3013573
Uh, do always feel free to send me a message.
462
00:44:09,599.3013573 --> 00:44:16,39.3013573
Also, if you've got a show coming up that you want me to come and see, or anybody in the show that you'd like me to chat to, please do.
463
00:44:16,89.3013573 --> 00:44:20,819.3013573
Uh, we are coming to see quite a few shows over the next coming weeks, and I'd love to squeeze you in.
464
00:44:20,889.3013573 --> 00:44:21,819.3013573
All right, take care.
