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You're listening to Profiles in Franceformation, the podcast where we hear from inspiring people who have pursued their dream of moving to France, we learn about why they moved, how they overcame the challenge that they faced and what they love and hate about living in.
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I hope that hearing their stories can help you to pursue your dreams and maybe your very own transformation.
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I'm your host, Allison Grant Lounes.
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And I'm here to tell you my guests followed their dreams and you can follow yours too.
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It starts today.
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Welcome to episode 36 of Profiles in Franceformation.
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And this episode, we have a very special guest, Janet Skeslien Charles, the New York times bestselling author of The Paris Library and historical fiction novel about a young French woman, Odile Souchet who lands her dream job, working at the American library in Paris, just before the German occupation of Paris and world war.
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Janet became enamored with France as a young girl, after hearing stories from the war bride who lived in her hometown and she has lived and worked in France since 1998, when she came as an English teaching assistant.
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Welcome Janet.
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So welcome and thank you so much for joining me.
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I really loved this book.
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It was so beautiful and I'm so glad that you're able to join us and talk about it.
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So we have questions for you.
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Thank you for reading and thank you for your.
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Yeah.
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So, my first question is, in the bio, in the back of the book, you mentioned how, when you were growing up, you knew a of a war bride, in your town.
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So my first question is how much of that person, did you know her in real life?
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What about her story?
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Informed some of the character of Odile, when you were coming up with the story and the narrative.
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I think, well, I grew up three blocks away from a war bride from flew home.
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And as a girl, I was just completely interested in her because she was so different from the other women.
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And just the way she spoke, the way she held herself.
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And I just thought her, it was so brave of her to leave behind her friends, her family, her country, her language, and take this huge chance on love.
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You know, I think a lot of the, the war rides who married GIS did not get a chance to really know them very well.
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Yeah.
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So it was really a leap of faith.
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So, even as a small child, I thought she was very brave.
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I was not very close to her.
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I was very close to my own grandmother, but I think because of her, I wanted to take French in high school and I was always very interested in French culture.
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So it's really thanks to Mrs.
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Maynard, that, I came to France that first time when I was 15.
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Yeah.
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And it's interesting that you say that, you know, you, you see Mrs.
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Maynard as being brave and, you know, coming to a new country, but for Odile, it wasn't really that brave.
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I mean, it was brave in a sense that it's difficult to leave your home, but, the reasons that Odile left in part were not super brave.
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And I don't want to get into any spoilers.
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We said no, no.
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He said no spoilers.
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Well, I think all the women of that generation who left, Europe, or Japan and went to the United States were incredibly, incredibly brave because a lot of them never got to go home.
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It was so expensive to go home.
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And if they realize they've made a mistake, divorce, wasn't really an option.
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It was harder and maybe really frowned upon to get divorced back then.
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Phone calls were so expensive letters took so long.
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So I view all of those women as incredibly brave Odile.
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I think when she decided she had to leave, it was at first shame that drove her and looking for an easy escape.
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But I also think it was because she needed to show.
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She was sorry.
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And so she gave up, she gave up something that was very important.
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So that her friend Margaret could have it.
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So I think the initial motivation was shamed, but I think after that, the motivation was with more selfless.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That's true.
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True.
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So you were 15 the first time you came to Paris.
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So tell me about that trip and what was it like for you when you visited for the first time?
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I was in Metz in Lorraine and I absolutely love it.
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I fell in love with my host family.
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I, I just noticed every single detail.
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I took photographs of every element of the house.
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even the toilet.
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I just, everything was different and fascinating Timmy.
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And I think that those early moments, with that host family that were so kind got me through tougher times later on, in.
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Yeah.
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What were some of your first impressions of French culture when you took that first trip?
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I think, it just, I remember my host mother putting a little bit of sugar, in her yogurt, which I had never seen before.
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Just these little tiny things like that.
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She spent a lot of time ironing.
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I didn't know anyone who spent time ironing.
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She said one of the things that shocked me is, I took a can of Coca-Cola and I walked down the street with it.
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She said, and tell me, she'd only seen people eating or drinking at the table.
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And so I think it went both ways that, the things that we noticed, about each other were surprised.
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I definitely surprised them as well.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And how much of that trip.
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It did it at all make you think you would come back to France or write a book about France at some point?
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I think I always wanted to come back to France.
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I just, I really fell in love with it.
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At 15.
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I spent a month here with a family.
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And then the family's daughter came to visit us in Montana and then I returned here.
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So it was really, a lovely friendship.
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And, I think when you feel that friendship, it's easy to, to feel that you have a place in that country.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, for sure.
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So tell me about how did you make some of your first French friends during that time and.
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What were some of the differences you noticed between making friends in France and making friends back home?
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I went to, a few days of school with the girl in the host family.
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And so it was very easy as a teen.
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It's very easy to talk to people in France because everyone uses to use the informal.
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I think it's a lot trickier, as an adult and navigating the tu and the vous, the happiest I've ever been in a working situation is when I was teaching at a local junior high.
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And the head teacher told me, ici, on se tutoie avec plaisir we use the informal tu with pleasure.
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And so she really, so just kind of telling me what the rules were, was really helpful.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Cause yeah.
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Okay.
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It can be really difficult.
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when you have to think about how to conjugate plus what you're trying to say, I'm trying to remember, because at a certain point you have like 200 people in your head and you've got to remember, do they need any Sydney to, with me?
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Do they say, Ooh, should I say tu or vous with them?
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And I have to say for my first book, my editor to 12, me she's two.
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And then we haven't seen each other for awhile and she moved a lot to me and I, and then, so she, even French people sometimes I think can kind of forget and yeah.
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And not on purpose.
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It's just, she has a huge Rolodex of authors in her mind too.
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And she can't keep everyone straight either.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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so tell me about when you came back to France, you came back.
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With TAPIF as a language assistant.
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And then you stayed, right.
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So tell me about how you officially sort of relocated here.
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Well, I wouldn't say officially because, because I came for, I really came for a school year.
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I came as a teaching assistant, I worked in a local high school in Alsace-Lorraine and in Lewes, and I really loved it.
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My colleagues were just very friendly and very kind.
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And, I lived 30 minutes from Germany, 30 minutes from Switzerland.
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So it seemed very international.
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It was a wonderful experience.
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I met my husband, so I signed up again to be an assistant, this time, I was living in Paris with my soon to be husband.
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So I ended up, working close to Versailles and , that was a little trickier.
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The colleagues weren't as friendly.
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And I think when you're a teaching assistant, you're kind of viewed as why, why get to know that person, because they're just passing through their hero figure and then they're gone.
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So it was a little more challenging in the production area.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So how did you transition out of that to be able to stay and what brought you to the American library?
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Well, I think I was an assistant for six years.
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At least I just kept on renewing and it was easy.
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It was easy to renew because even when I think one year I was refused, they said, no, you can't be an assistant anymore.
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the following school year, they said we need someone help.
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cause there's always the people, you know, who have to back out or their travel plans change, things like this.
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So, it took me a long time to transition out of that job.
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, just because it was so nice to have the summers off.
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And it was, it was really important to me to be able to go home, to see my family in Montana.
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And I think that can maybe be concerned for a lot of people who move abroad that flexibility.
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And, I have to say in France, the school system has it's sometimes it seems more holidays and vacations and actual days in school.
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So it, it, it's very nice if you, you know, like me, if you want to work on writing projects or want to travel, it's it's a very, it's a, it's a good job to have.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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My, my son is seven.
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He's never in school.
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And the month of may is coming up too.
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So he really won't be in school.
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I'm sure.
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With all of the, all of the holidays, right?
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Well, we do have the problem this year of May 1st and May 8th or both on Sundays.
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So we get kind of screwed out of two days off this year, but.
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So how did you start at the American library and what brought you there and what did you do when you were there?
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Well, I started at the library, like most people who work there, I started as a volunteer.
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I led creative writing workshops for teens at first with the children's librarians.
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And then, Ann Mah who is a novelist, was leaving to write full-time.
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She was the programs manager.
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And so we were having lunch right before she was leaving the library.
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And so she suggested that I applied.
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And so that's what I did.
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And, I stayed there for two years.
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It was a job.
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That was 15 hours a week at the time.
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Now I think it's a full-time job.
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And I have to say it was a full-time job then.
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Yeah.
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And so it was one of those jobs where it was all or nothing.
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And, when you're a writer, you really need a job where you have a little more flexibility so that you can spend time on your passions.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I forget what Elizabeth Gilbert calls it, but she had, she had a term for the good enough job that pays your bills so that you can write in all of your spare time.
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Exactly, exactly.
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And so after the library, I got a job teaching, university students that had code for your technique.
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And so it was the same amount of hours per week, but it gave me the mental space.
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And I think working with students, you really feel an optimism towards the future.
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And you see, you see the future generation and how smart and wise they are.
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And that really gives you a lot of energy.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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What part of, so the, the Paris library is of course based on well it's fiction, but you interviewed a lot of people who were at the American library and you researched a lot of the history.
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So what were some of the characters that, were inspired by real people?
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And who did you talk to?
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How did you sort of do your research into writing the story?
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Well, for people who, might not be familiar with my book, The Paris Library I will just say that it's a world war II.
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Paris is occupied.
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There's a war on words and it's not Susan versus American librarian since the librarians win.
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And it's the true story of the librarians.
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And it was the American library, but it was actually librarians from France, Switzerland, England, Canada, Russia, the United States who all band together and, defied the Nazis in order to hand deliver books to Jewish readers.
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I did a lot of research.
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I contacted a lot of the families, talked to a lot of the descendants of the librarians and, it was very interesting to talk to family members with interesting to read their diaries and their letters.
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It was really an honor choose to really speak to the people.
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A lot of things.
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I learned about it when I was working at the library, one of my colleagues, was talking about it.
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And so that's really where I heard about it.
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It was in the back office.
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It's a library.
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Yeah.
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Well, one of the things that surprised me and that I admit, I didn't know about the history was the part about the Canadians and the British, in Paris, either being expelled or going to camps and things like that, because they were the enemy.
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Exactly.
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And even still be a beach.
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The original owner of Shakespeare and company was in an internment camp in the east for a time.
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Because once America entered the war in 1941, then Americans too, were alien enemies.
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So yes, it was really, and I mean, They were not shy about rescuing children and women.
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It was really a scary time.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I mean, I think there's a lot of that dilemma in, again, no spoilers, but, the different ways that people avoided being captured or flying under the radar or if they were captured getting out of that situation.
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There there's a lot of.
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Ambiguity.
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Which actually brings me to one of my questions, in the very beginning.
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So we, we see, Odile when she's preparing for her job, or her job interview.
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We learn about she's classifying everything with the Dewey decimal system.
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And she's like, you know, I prefer cats.
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It's 8 30, 6, I'm making up the numbers because I don't remember them 8 30, 6 0.7, but my brother, you know, prefers dogs 8 30, 6 0.8.
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And she learned the Dewey decimal system from her aunt who brought her to the American library.
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And, every time she references a book or a thought or a, or a series of thoughts, she's bringing up this Dewey decimal system.
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And so there's a lot of classification.
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And then I think the really interesting thing is, is as the book goes on, we see how difficult it is to classify people and actions and.
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History and everything into good or not good, or, in favor of Germany or, the resistance and everybody sort of exists in like this gray area that can't be defined.
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Yes, it's true.
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It's true.
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She is.
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I think it's a coping mechanism for her at first to be able to classify these things.
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And she's not very good with people, but she's pretty good with books and, she uses that system, but at a certain point, all the memorization in the world can't help because there are things we cannot classify.
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That's a really good point.
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Yeah.
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Well, and it does taper off as the story progresses.
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And.
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I think the only person that she can really classify is her brother Remi.
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And I think he's really the only one that you could sort of pin down in terms of where he stood.
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And, he didn't, he just, we know exactly what it, and I mean, he said exactly what he thought.
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He wore his heart on his sleeve.
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His actions were in alignment with his ideals.
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He's a big supporter of Odile.
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I think he's probably one of the only characters that you can really say, he's good.
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Throughout the whole story, Yes.
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I think everybody's pretty nuanced.
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We all have our positive and negative points and it's true.
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It's hard.
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Yeah.
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And now that I'm thinking about it, how much of Remy being pure, pure good is s perspective because of her relationship with him.
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True.
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Very true.
00:16:35.456 --> 00:16:37.076
And he's so good.
00:16:37.076 --> 00:16:40.105
And that makes her feel bad at times, or like she can't do anything.
00:16:40.105 --> 00:16:40.466
Right.
00:16:40.466 --> 00:16:47.582
So it's sometimes having someone that good or that, kind is, can be very hard sometimes because you can't live up to that.
00:16:47.605 --> 00:16:48.206
For sure.
00:16:48.385 --> 00:16:48.956
For sure.
00:16:49.409 --> 00:16:56.509
So switching back into your personal story, did you always know that you were going to be a writer and how did you get started?
00:16:56.860 --> 00:16:58.149
Writing novels.
00:16:58.182 --> 00:17:00.043
I knew that I was a writer.
00:17:00.043 --> 00:17:03.312
Maybe now I'm an author, but I I've always been a writer.
00:17:03.312 --> 00:17:06.282
I've always had journals and always been observing people.
00:17:06.583 --> 00:17:11.839
I took a writing class or two as an undergraduate, which, there weren't that many options.
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:20.450
I went to the university of Montana and, for undergraduates there just weren't that many classes I think now, they have, I have an MFA program, as well.
00:17:20.509 --> 00:17:31.460
And so I, I took a class or two, as a graduate student as well, but, mainly, I've always worked with the writing group just because writing is so solitary.
00:17:31.460 --> 00:17:36.130
I think it's important to kind of have that comradery with other writers.
00:17:36.220 --> 00:17:44.369
And usually if I'm having trouble in my own text or something's not working and I read someone else's and I see they have the same problem seeing.
00:17:44.674 --> 00:17:48.934
How it doesn't work in their text helps me understand why it's not working in mine.
00:17:49.025 --> 00:17:56.015
So it's also really gratifying to see someone's first draft go-to and become a published book.
00:17:56.134 --> 00:17:58.984
That's really gratifying to see all the different steps.
00:17:58.984 --> 00:18:01.144
And you see how much hard work goes into a book.
00:18:01.184 --> 00:18:01.724
Yeah.
00:18:01.785 --> 00:18:02.174
Yeah.
00:18:02.204 --> 00:18:04.694
Because at the beginning, you just have to get the story down.
00:18:05.535 --> 00:18:06.464
Yes, exactly.
00:18:06.464 --> 00:18:09.835
And you can't be too inhibited because otherwise you wouldn't write anything.
00:18:09.835 --> 00:18:12.204
So you've just got to let it, you just let it go.
00:18:12.775 --> 00:18:21.474
I have that problem to be inhibited or just to let it all go to being inhibited during the writing process.
00:18:22.105 --> 00:18:22.345
Yeah.
00:18:22.345 --> 00:18:26.444
I know you can't be inhibited and just, you just have to just let it out and.
00:18:27.430 --> 00:18:28.390
You'll edit it later.
00:18:28.450 --> 00:18:32.619
Cause if there's nothing to edit lots of worst problems and right.
00:18:32.650 --> 00:18:33.940
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:34.369 --> 00:18:52.890
So how did you find these different groups when you first got to Paris and you were working on your writing, how did you find these groups to write with,, were there any, did you find Paris, as inspiring as everybody else who comes here to write the great American novel?
00:18:53.369 --> 00:18:55.349
I find, I find it very hard.
00:18:55.349 --> 00:18:57.269
I found it very, very hard.
00:18:57.269 --> 00:19:04.259
I signed up for a writing group, but all of the people who've been in the writing group had been in it for 10 years.
00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:10.170
So they're just w it was very, you couldn't really break in, they were their set group.
00:19:10.170 --> 00:19:11.069
And that was that.
00:19:11.145 --> 00:19:16.536
I was in one group with men and it didn't matter what we wrote, they would just say put more sex in there.
00:19:17.145 --> 00:19:26.865
I, well, it's about teaching, not really my genre.
00:19:30.855 --> 00:19:35.175
So yes, having a teacher, having an affair with a student, not a good idea.
00:19:35.566 --> 00:19:37.965
So it really took me a lot of time.
00:19:37.965 --> 00:19:45.413
And one of the things I actually did was cause I wasn't finding people was I actually asked, Sylvia Whitman at Shakespeare company.
00:19:45.682 --> 00:19:49.853
If I could lead a writing workshop in the upstairs library.
00:19:49.972 --> 00:19:51.113
And so she said, yes.
00:19:51.383 --> 00:19:58.823
So for several years, I met with writers, and I led the writing workshop, but it wasn't, it was more so I could find like-minded people.
00:19:58.972 --> 00:20:00.383
And that was really a lot of fun.
00:20:00.952 --> 00:20:01.373
Yeah.
00:20:01.823 --> 00:20:07.663
I find that a lot of people come to Paris with the idea of a creative project and the idea that.
00:20:07.959 --> 00:20:13.959
A lot of great American authors and artists, musicians come to Paris.
00:20:14.058 --> 00:20:19.189
And like to create those, those spaces for creativity, for writing.
00:20:19.628 --> 00:20:22.979
What are some of your other writing habits in Paris?
00:20:23.488 --> 00:20:29.897
I don't know if you agree, but I feel like Paris has been really noisy the last few years because of the construction.
00:20:29.958 --> 00:20:35.897
Everything is under construction, replacing water pipes, replacing wires.
00:20:36.258 --> 00:20:38.298
And so it's in my neighborhood.
00:20:38.298 --> 00:20:40.397
There's nonstop jackhammering.
00:20:40.817 --> 00:20:45.438
And so I like to get up early before the city gets up and get some writing in.
00:20:45.647 --> 00:20:47.877
And, that's really important.
00:20:47.877 --> 00:20:52.258
And then later in the day, when my mind is less furnished, that's when I do my research.
00:20:52.284 --> 00:20:53.693
This is Kim's question.
00:20:53.743 --> 00:20:58.394
Was Lily inspired at all by your own experience and meeting this woman?
00:20:58.443 --> 00:20:58.773
Mrs.
00:20:58.773 --> 00:21:00.604
Maynard, who lived in your town?
00:21:00.703 --> 00:21:06.044
Was there any part of her story of Lily story that is autobiographical for you?
00:21:06.703 --> 00:21:13.874
Well, I think the main part of Lily's story that's autobiographical is just that desire to get out.
00:21:14.084 --> 00:21:18.824
I just wanted out and I was convinced that big cities offer more.
00:21:19.124 --> 00:21:26.693
For example, I, when I was studying French in high school, we had two years of French and that's it down the road, 80 miles.
00:21:26.693 --> 00:21:31.923
My cousin had the opportunity to take French German, Spanish four years of each.
00:21:32.284 --> 00:21:36.238
So I just felt like there was a real lack.
00:21:36.327 --> 00:21:40.468
And now I realize how lucky I was because all of my teachers were so attentive.
00:21:41.288 --> 00:21:42.907
Yeah, it was a small town.
00:21:42.968 --> 00:21:49.087
And so they really looked out for us and they were really teaching because they loved it and they loved being with students.
00:21:49.428 --> 00:21:59.587
And so that was something that I, I knew at the time, but I don't know if I appreciated it as much then maybe I saw that, attention and care as, as, , intrusion.
00:22:00.337 --> 00:22:03.248
Because as a teenager you just want to be free.
00:22:03.667 --> 00:22:11.857
So, I think that's where Lily comes in because feeling, feeling like she's been tied down because she lives in a, in a small town.
00:22:12.307 --> 00:22:15.817
And of course with the pandemic I want to do was get back home.
00:22:15.817 --> 00:22:23.107
And I, was one of the first times I wasn't able to 2020, it was the first time I wasn't able to go to Montana and that was really hard.
00:22:23.647 --> 00:22:33.268
And, but for the rest, and I think that obsession was with the war bride, but of course, Lily is very close to Odile and I, I observed a war bride from the.
00:22:34.242 --> 00:22:34.482
Yeah.
00:22:34.919 --> 00:22:42.472
and what caused you to have the idea for this sort of dual timeline and the story frame of Lily meeting, Mrs.
00:22:42.512 --> 00:22:49.739
Gustafsson, who was Odile, and having that sort of present day reflection on Mrs.
00:22:49.739 --> 00:22:54.608
Gustafsson sort of coming to terms with what had truly happened during the war?
00:22:55.979 --> 00:22:59.729
I think today people are so used to.
00:22:59.769 --> 00:23:01.778
Maybe focusing on themselves.
00:23:01.808 --> 00:23:08.499
I see people in, in parks and in Paris, and instead of taking pictures of things, they take pictures of things.
00:23:08.598 --> 00:23:09.638
They take selfies.
00:23:09.715 --> 00:23:14.846
And even like I saw a little girl, just maybe two or three years old and she was already taking selfies.
00:23:14.905 --> 00:23:19.256
And I think we maybe are losing that interest in other people.
00:23:19.885 --> 00:23:26.006
And we lose a lot of stories that way, where you're so interested in talking about ourselves or showing pictures about ourselves.
00:23:26.276 --> 00:23:31.556
And I mean, you can look at some people's Instagram accounts and it's just literally selfies of themselves.
00:23:31.675 --> 00:23:37.506
And that's really shocking to see, for me anyway, I think I'm more interested in other people.
00:23:37.506 --> 00:23:40.355
And I think it's important for us to take interest in other people.
00:23:40.865 --> 00:23:55.635
And I see a lot of books set in Paris with Parisian author or with Parisian characters, but I think that's important to remember that teenage girls have rich inner lives and their stories are just as valuable as other stories.
00:23:55.638 --> 00:23:56.148
Yeah.
00:23:56.479 --> 00:24:00.365
Well, and teenage girls are a demographic that their stories are dismissed a lot.
00:24:00.756 --> 00:24:02.346
Exactly, exactly.
00:24:02.346 --> 00:24:16.108
And a lot of men who have read my book, a lot of their criticism is like, oh, it's like, it's written like Y a and I have to say one of my favorite books, growing up still now is, the outsiders by se Hinton a 16 year old girl.
00:24:16.348 --> 00:24:19.919
I just think it's absolutely beautiful or bridge to Terabithia.
00:24:19.949 --> 00:24:24.568
I think it's such a beautiful book or even, the hunger games.
00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:27.861
The end of the hunger games was such a punch in the gut.
00:24:27.951 --> 00:24:29.000
I still feel it.
00:24:29.080 --> 00:24:31.191
It just, I thought it was absolutely brilliant.
00:24:31.560 --> 00:24:36.030
But as you say, just write as if writing for a teenage girls as if it's a slur.
00:24:36.391 --> 00:24:39.250
And actually it's a great responsibility and an honor.
00:24:39.701 --> 00:24:40.181
Yeah.
00:24:41.020 --> 00:24:41.290
Yeah.
00:24:41.320 --> 00:24:42.760
And that's a really interesting point.
00:24:42.760 --> 00:24:49.364
I, I often think about how, when you're growing up and reading literature, it's almost always male main character.
00:24:49.364 --> 00:25:00.300
So you always have, you know, catcher in the rye or, what percentage of books that you read as a child, focus on a male teenager, and tell that story.
00:25:00.461 --> 00:25:05.789
And so young or adolescent girls are constantly putting themselves in.
00:25:06.069 --> 00:25:10.242
The mind or in the character of the young man character.
00:25:10.482 --> 00:25:19.093
Whereas I think it's really uncommon for boys and teenagers to read stories about young women and to do empathize and put themselves in their shoes.
00:25:19.196 --> 00:25:21.237
I think that's, I think that's definitely true.
00:25:21.237 --> 00:25:23.277
And I, there was a story with the hunger games.
00:25:23.326 --> 00:25:31.156
A colleague who works at Simon and Schuster gave the book to his son and the son must've got halfway through it and he came back at his dad and he's super mad.
00:25:31.156 --> 00:25:35.386
He's like, yeah, but I love that.
00:25:35.446 --> 00:25:36.676
And I looked at, I love that.
00:25:36.676 --> 00:25:38.807
He didn't know that for the first half of the book.
00:25:38.836 --> 00:25:40.727
And, I think that's really interesting.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:45.509
I mean, it's kind of obvious, but that was a name.
00:25:45.509 --> 00:25:52.049
I mean, not with the, it's not a, you know, it's not a Brittany name or it's, you know, where it's, it's obvious from the.
00:25:52.450 --> 00:25:53.170
From the name.
00:25:53.170 --> 00:26:02.470
And I think it's, I just think it's really good to, I, I think as a, in English, we're going, instead of saying he or she saying they, so everything's not gendered.
00:26:02.470 --> 00:26:03.759
I think it's really interesting.
00:26:03.823 --> 00:26:04.303
Yeah.
00:26:04.346 --> 00:26:04.826
Yeah.
00:26:05.202 --> 00:26:14.567
but that's, I mean, that's kind of sad that, you wouldn't want to read a story about, I mean, I grew up on Harry Potter, so I think he kept reading.
00:26:14.567 --> 00:26:16.696
It was just, he was just, he was surprised.
00:26:16.727 --> 00:26:18.287
He was sure he liked it.
00:26:18.287 --> 00:26:19.336
I'm sure he continued.
00:26:19.336 --> 00:26:27.376
It was just, it was just a surprise, but just, it was just, as you were saying, you were so used to reading about boys that he was surprised to be reading about a girl.
00:26:28.186 --> 00:26:28.696
Yeah.
00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:29.160
Hmm.
00:26:29.261 --> 00:26:29.442
Yeah.
00:26:29.491 --> 00:26:34.315
So mentioned quotes a lot from other literature.
00:26:34.375 --> 00:26:38.525
She quotes a lot stuff CFC when she goes to meet, Ms.
00:26:38.525 --> 00:26:46.701
Reader for the first time and does the job interview, and then she's really embarrassed to have picked Dostoevsky as her favorite author.
00:26:47.241 --> 00:26:47.511
And Ms.
00:26:47.511 --> 00:26:51.092
Reader's like, well, everybody picked Shakespeare or, Jane Eyre.
00:26:52.511 --> 00:26:58.961
So I'm wondering, was there any particular significance to some of the works that you chose to, to quote?
00:26:59.031 --> 00:27:01.821
It was a lot of classics for the most part.
00:27:02.241 --> 00:27:02.511
Oh.
00:27:02.541 --> 00:27:05.821
One of my favorite books was, good morning, midnight by Jean.
00:27:07.017 --> 00:27:10.886
And it is a book about a woman down and out in Paris.
00:27:10.946 --> 00:27:21.096
And I absolutely love it because all books, including mine, tend to glamorize Paris and only point out the beauty of Paris.
00:27:21.156 --> 00:27:24.576
And it really talks about the isolation or alcoholism.
00:27:24.787 --> 00:27:33.287
You know, we always talk about champagne and line, but we never talk about the darker side of addiction or drunkenness, , or depression.
00:27:33.386 --> 00:27:38.517
, so this book is beautifully written, , but it shows a woman alone with not a lot of money.
00:27:38.936 --> 00:27:41.156
And I asked him, do you love it?
00:27:41.307 --> 00:27:42.086
I absolutely love it.
00:27:42.086 --> 00:27:45.207
So the books that I chose are books that are really dear to my heart.
00:27:45.297 --> 00:27:46.227
, So let's switch gears.
00:27:46.257 --> 00:27:49.646
Let's switch back to talking a little bit about your story.
00:27:49.846 --> 00:27:53.057
What was the dark side of being in Paris for you?
00:27:53.156 --> 00:28:03.497
, during while, since you've been here since the late nineties, and what are some of the major challenges that sort of de glamorized living in Paris for you?
00:28:04.096 --> 00:28:14.727
Well, I I'm really had a hard time meeting people and making friends because like I said, I was an assistant and so people thought, oh, well, she's only going to be a year.
00:28:14.896 --> 00:28:16.457
Why bother getting to know her?
00:28:16.797 --> 00:28:20.366
, I think a lot of Persians leave town on the weekends and during holidays.
00:28:20.366 --> 00:28:25.557
So maybe in other places where you could meet up for a coffee on the weekend, , people are gone a lot.
00:28:26.017 --> 00:28:28.297
, I just really found it challenging.
00:28:28.406 --> 00:28:31.527
, before I, it took me a long time to find friends.
00:28:32.118 --> 00:28:34.759
And to find people kind of like-minded people.
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:40.189
And I think it was really surprising because just as you said earlier, we think of Paris is maybe the city of literature.
00:28:40.325 --> 00:28:46.924
, and so many people do read and write, but I, I just really struggled for probably six years.
00:28:46.991 --> 00:28:47.352
Yeah.
00:28:47.525 --> 00:28:47.884
Yeah.
00:28:48.244 --> 00:28:51.904
And how did you sort of break into starting to make those friends?
00:28:51.934 --> 00:29:01.694
And did you make, you made some friends that were French and then you made some friends in the ex-pat community and the Americans, community, Americans and France community.
00:29:02.125 --> 00:29:04.174
, and how did you go about that?
00:29:04.332 --> 00:29:13.249
Well, I think what really helped us, me having my own writing group in the upstairs library, , That really got me meeting other people.
00:29:13.278 --> 00:29:18.078
And so there were French people and international people and English speakers in the group.
00:29:18.128 --> 00:29:22.328
, so it was little bit everyone and that's really, I think what, what helped.
00:29:22.419 --> 00:29:26.138
And then I finally got a writing group that, , I was in sync with.
00:29:26.239 --> 00:29:33.338
And that's important too, because when you're a writer, you, and you're just spending a lot of time and investing in but other people are, are writing.
00:29:33.378 --> 00:29:34.989
You want to enjoy that.
00:29:35.288 --> 00:29:39.489
You want to enjoy their, their musings and their, and their chapters.
00:29:40.028 --> 00:29:40.419
Yeah.
00:29:40.538 --> 00:29:47.568
, and so tell me about your, so your first book, Moonlight in Odessa was released in 2009, I believe.
00:29:47.838 --> 00:29:48.078
Yes.
00:29:48.318 --> 00:29:52.333
So tell me about the process of, of writing that and how did you go about.
00:29:52.345 --> 00:29:53.484
Getting it published.
00:29:53.605 --> 00:29:59.031
I have not been able to, for curious, it's out of print Simon and Schuster bought the rights.
00:29:59.031 --> 00:30:04.041
And so it'll come out probably in 20, 20, 24, maybe.
00:30:04.642 --> 00:30:09.231
, I wrote the book, it's a, it's a single narrator first person.
00:30:09.261 --> 00:30:11.751
And so it took me about two years to write.
00:30:11.888 --> 00:30:16.028
, it's about, it's about the booming business of email order brides.
00:30:16.509 --> 00:30:22.449
And I lived in Odessa Ukraine for two years and I couldn't really go back.
00:30:22.689 --> 00:30:34.398
, because it, , for example, as a teacher, I earned $25 a month working full time, and my rent was a hundred dollars a month just to give you an idea of what the economy was at the time.
00:30:35.028 --> 00:30:37.608
And a lot of times teachers did not get paid on time.
00:30:37.608 --> 00:30:41.298
We got paid a month or two late, so it was very challenging.
00:30:41.388 --> 00:30:43.068
And so you can see why.
00:30:43.196 --> 00:30:50.886
People who could leave, , would, would want to, not because they didn't love their country, but just because of the economic situation.
00:30:51.277 --> 00:30:56.487
So, , I went to the Geneva writer's conference and that's where I found my first agent.
00:30:57.027 --> 00:31:00.277
And that was really an excellent, , writing conference.
00:31:00.307 --> 00:31:01.807
There's something for everyone there.
00:31:01.807 --> 00:31:10.059
It's a small conference and, they get really great speakers and, it's a weekend and I, I, it's not, it's not very expensive.
00:31:10.059 --> 00:31:18.364
So I highly, highly recommended it's every other year that you need for writers' conference also has monthly seminars, which are our greatest well, cool.
00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:18.660
Yeah.
00:31:18.660 --> 00:31:31.646
And I was thinking so much, , as I was reading about the dilemma of the different characters, I, you know, of course I was reading this book, , the Paris library right around the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine and.
00:31:32.076 --> 00:31:34.836
I didn't realize at the time that your other book was about Ukraine.
00:31:35.237 --> 00:31:51.346
, but I was thinking about that situation because you see the moral dilemmas of the people who, , sort of go and try to get along with the Germans and the people who, sort of take advantage in certain ways or who are taken advantage of by the fact that they get something from it.
00:31:51.346 --> 00:31:54.977
They get extra rations, they get a little bit of safety.
00:31:55.217 --> 00:32:05.259
And so I think, your, the other book about war brides, there's also a lot of parallels with, what can you trade to, to get that safety in a time of war?
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:07.549
And there were a lot of parallels with the current events.
00:32:07.676 --> 00:32:14.196
Well, there's definitely, especially with the cold war, the Lily section set in the cold war, where there is this fear.
00:32:15.231 --> 00:32:17.541
Of Russia and what Russia is capable of.
00:32:17.541 --> 00:32:20.571
And now we're seeing exactly what they're capable of.
00:32:20.571 --> 00:32:28.919
So it's, it's, it's really, it's really terrible and horrifying to, to see Russia attack Ukraine like this.
00:32:29.035 --> 00:32:30.684
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:32:30.724 --> 00:32:31.234
For sure.
00:32:31.894 --> 00:32:32.194
, yeah.
00:32:32.194 --> 00:32:36.904
And there there's the added dilemma of some of the women, , in the story again, no spoilers.
00:32:39.575 --> 00:32:42.065
I'm trying to think of how I'm wording this.
00:32:42.065 --> 00:32:44.194
So I don't give anything away about any of the characters.
00:32:44.575 --> 00:32:45.484
It's not easy.
00:32:45.595 --> 00:32:47.464
It's really not easy, right?
00:32:47.464 --> 00:32:47.734
Yeah.
00:32:47.765 --> 00:33:03.489
But I mean, there are so many moral dilemmas beyond just am I on the side of, and this comes back to the gray area stuff we were talking about earlier, you know, are we on the side of the good guys or the bad guys, and really in reality that, or in the story, it's much more.
00:33:03.903 --> 00:33:05.163
It's much less black and white.
00:33:05.579 --> 00:33:10.673
, so what have you been doing aside from writing these amazing novels?
00:33:10.673 --> 00:33:12.624
Do you have other projects that you're working on?
00:33:12.673 --> 00:33:15.913
, what are some of your other things that you do, , in life?
00:33:16.247 --> 00:33:20.297
Well, one of the things I enjoy doing is going to the red, , wheelbarrow bookshop.
00:33:20.477 --> 00:33:22.636
It's one of my favorite places in Paris.
00:33:22.727 --> 00:33:29.527
And so for people who are thinking of coming to Paris or who live here already, it's, , it's my favorite place in Paris.
00:33:29.527 --> 00:33:32.287
So I really enjoy spending time there.
00:33:32.836 --> 00:33:40.567
, I'm working on another novel right now and still doing the promotion for the Paris library, which is, , on the New York times bestseller list for paperback.
00:33:40.576 --> 00:33:42.247
So that's really nice to see.
00:33:42.344 --> 00:33:44.324
, so those are kind of some of the things that are keeping me here.
00:33:45.493 --> 00:33:47.144
I did go to the red wheel barrel.
00:33:47.173 --> 00:33:51.253
Cause I've seen on your Instagram that you have been, you know, that you spend a lot of time there.
00:33:51.253 --> 00:33:55.814
So I went and I asked Penelope is the owner and she is quite lovely.
00:33:55.814 --> 00:33:58.574
And I asked her, I just finished the Paris library.
00:33:58.574 --> 00:33:59.653
What should I read next?
00:34:02.743 --> 00:34:05.717
So we settled on, , the song of the Kellys.
00:34:06.196 --> 00:34:06.676
Okay.
00:34:07.426 --> 00:34:10.637
I bought that and it was, it was very good.
00:34:10.677 --> 00:34:11.577
It was very male.
00:34:13.527 --> 00:34:14.277
It's all about men.
00:34:14.306 --> 00:34:15.146
It's all about men.
00:34:15.146 --> 00:34:16.556
It's that Madeline Miller.
00:34:16.777 --> 00:34:17.467
, Madeline Miller.
00:34:17.467 --> 00:34:17.797
Yes.
00:34:19.907 --> 00:34:21.217
I went back.
00:34:21.246 --> 00:34:22.226
She didn't have Circe.
00:34:22.387 --> 00:34:25.056
That was the one that I was when I looked for.
00:34:25.567 --> 00:34:34.309
, so then I went to Smith and son and got , so I'm going to read that next, but yes, the song of Achilles was quite good, but it was.
00:34:34.836 --> 00:34:36.606
You know, it was all men in all wars.
00:34:36.606 --> 00:34:43.467
So, the, the sort of the Iliad fanfiction, and you go upstairs to the, to the tea room.
00:34:43.467 --> 00:34:44.097
How is it?
00:34:44.606 --> 00:34:47.157
I did not owe to the in Smith.
00:34:49.106 --> 00:34:49.947
I haven't been there yet.
00:34:50.367 --> 00:34:52.166
I haven't been back to the tea room.
00:34:52.166 --> 00:34:58.887
I went before, while back when it was still w H Smith, I went to the tea room once or twice.
00:34:59.027 --> 00:35:00.077
, I guess it's been completely.
00:35:01.577 --> 00:35:02.086
Yeah.
00:35:02.117 --> 00:35:02.416
Yeah.
00:35:02.416 --> 00:35:03.916
It's quite, it's quite nice.
00:35:03.967 --> 00:35:07.717
, I do like Smith and son a lot and they have Cadbury chocolate.
00:35:11.670 --> 00:35:12.900
It does, it does.
00:35:15.789 --> 00:35:31.119
That's why I went and the past and the past two years, because of COVID I was not able to get, , Cadbury or well, in 2020, because of COVID in 2021 because of Brexit, those many eggs.
00:35:31.510 --> 00:35:32.230
Yeah.
00:35:32.409 --> 00:35:32.920
Yeah.
00:35:33.403 --> 00:35:36.373
, so what are some of your favorite places to visit in Paris?
00:35:36.403 --> 00:35:41.023
And do you have any places that you go to right in public or do you mostly write at home?
00:35:41.454 --> 00:35:50.646
I've I kind of stopped writing in public because so many places have really loud music or TVs, but I find myself really missing it.
00:35:50.677 --> 00:35:59.164
I was in a cafe just to get something to go the other day and I realized how much I just miss sitting down in a place that wasn't my, my home office.
00:35:59.583 --> 00:36:06.103
And, , so maybe I'll get back into the habit again, a little bit of,, going out in the American library.
00:36:09.043 --> 00:36:10.364
I started doing that actually.
00:36:10.364 --> 00:36:14.023
I had never, I hadn't joined the American library.
00:36:14.074 --> 00:36:15.273
, I had been to a couple of them.
00:36:16.304 --> 00:36:22.003
, but I actually joined during COVID because libraries were open, but cafes were closed.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:26.989
So it's far from me, unfortunately, I'm on the complete other side of Paris.
00:36:27.860 --> 00:36:29.150
I'm the same way as so far.
00:36:29.150 --> 00:36:32.090
And it's in a, it's actually in a black hole of transportation.
00:36:32.210 --> 00:36:33.626
, so no, I was same way.
00:36:34.130 --> 00:36:34.460
Yeah.
00:36:34.489 --> 00:36:35.659
But it was, it was good.
00:36:35.690 --> 00:36:43.369
I did go there like once a week during, during yeah.
00:36:43.369 --> 00:36:45.500
Because otherwise I just wouldn't leave the house.
00:36:46.697 --> 00:36:46.876
yeah.
00:36:46.876 --> 00:36:49.487
What are some of your other projects besides, besides writing?
00:36:49.487 --> 00:36:51.586
Like what do you do in your day to day?
00:36:51.813 --> 00:36:55.293
, life, , you have a company at the bookstore.
00:36:56.643 --> 00:37:00.844
The company is just kind of to deal with the T to deal with the writing.
00:37:00.923 --> 00:37:11.494
, and, , the book was translated into 36 different languages, which was really nice and it's very exciting to see the different covers of, of each edition.
00:37:11.594 --> 00:37:16.974
, just to see what each, , international,, uh, publisher decides to do, , with the, with the different cover.
00:37:17.003 --> 00:37:28.594
So that's been really a lot of fun to see, , I'm working on a book now set in world war one, and it's another American librarian in France, and she works really close to the front near the trenches.
00:37:28.983 --> 00:37:31.773
And she's really been a lot of fun too.
00:37:32.264 --> 00:37:33.034
So that's what I'm doing.
00:37:33.570 --> 00:37:33.809
Yeah.
00:37:33.914 --> 00:37:36.934
And what was the, what was the French, , title of the book?
00:37:36.934 --> 00:37:58.710
Cause I thought you posted a picture on Instagram as well, and I was surprised by, yeah, well, I think that Paris library, the title works because Paris sells and people who love books, generally love libraries, but, , in French, , Paris doesn't necessarily sell because a lot of people in France think of Paris as pollution and traffic, and aren't necessarily keen to come here.
00:37:59.369 --> 00:38:06.750
And, , so in French it's been swath so a thirst for books and for freedom.
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:15.929
And I wasn't sure about that title, but the book came out during COVID and we really did have a thirst for freedom and for books and bookstores.
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:18.489
And, , so it was really perfect.
00:38:18.958 --> 00:38:19.318
Right.
00:38:19.318 --> 00:38:21.778
Well, and there were some parallels in, in COVID too.
00:38:21.778 --> 00:38:27.719
Now that, now that you mentioned it, because libraries and bookstores were all closed during the first wave.
00:38:28.108 --> 00:38:32.789
And then I think in the second wave bookstores were reclassified as being essential.
00:38:33.974 --> 00:38:36.405
So I think so it's all a, it's all a blur now.
00:38:36.405 --> 00:38:40.425
It seemed fixed at the time, but it seems like a blur.
00:38:40.485 --> 00:38:41.824
Yes, exactly.
00:38:42.224 --> 00:39:03.135
And I, and I'm sure you could do click and collect at the American library and that, you know, like, Odile delivering books to the professor, you had the, the courageous librarians battling COVID to deliver click and collect book order.
00:39:03.554 --> 00:39:03.795
Yes.
00:39:03.795 --> 00:39:04.574
They really were brave.
00:39:04.574 --> 00:39:09.855
And I asked him, they said that they have the same amount of people checking out books during COVID as during normal times.
00:39:09.855 --> 00:39:10.514
So people read.
00:39:11.036 --> 00:39:15.567
, really, even if they couldn't go physically in the library, they do a lot of click and collect.
00:39:15.567 --> 00:39:16.586
So that was really nice.
00:39:16.976 --> 00:39:20.726
Oh yeah, that's good to, that's good to know because it's, it's so great.
00:39:20.726 --> 00:39:39.976
And there were, so there was one part in the book and I didn't find the passage that I wanted to, , read, but you say something that I've also often observed about how, you know, Americans have kind of colonized Paris in this way that, you know, there's the American library and the American church and the American cathedral and all of these different, , American places.
00:39:39.976 --> 00:39:45.960
And, and I think that it's really interesting to see, how that is even more true.
00:39:46.590 --> 00:39:53.789
Well, it's interesting because when I was doing the research, I read a year's worth of the Paris edition of the New York Herald.
00:39:54.090 --> 00:40:01.739
And they literally had a column in the New York count, the American colony, and they had another column, the British colony.
00:40:02.134 --> 00:40:11.403
So, and it would be, , w w mini K Oppenheimer from Chicago will be staying at the Bristol from this date to this date.
00:40:11.403 --> 00:40:19.643
She will be arriving on this boat or Paul, Jay, , , book, my stor,, we'll be staying at in Fremont.
00:40:19.969 --> 00:40:24.547
, so, oh, so kind of like, the social calling card for exactly.
00:40:24.547 --> 00:40:33.786
So living people know who would be in town when, and so, but it was the American colony and then the British colonies, the Maharajah will be here from this date to this date.
00:40:33.786 --> 00:40:35.407
So it was really interesting.
00:40:35.447 --> 00:40:35.956
Yeah.
00:40:36.056 --> 00:40:36.956
Oh, that's so funny.
00:40:38.313 --> 00:40:39.574
And now we have that on Facebook.
00:40:42.329 --> 00:40:44.969
Let me see if there are any other questions that I haven't asked you yet.
00:40:45.353 --> 00:40:52.056
, Is there anything else that you want to in Paris or about your work as an author?
00:40:53.016 --> 00:40:59.166
I know last time you asked such great questions and we talked a little bit about the challenges and pleasures of living in France.
00:40:59.166 --> 00:41:06.456
So I would just encourage people who are thinking about it to, , maybe do like, I didn't say I'll do it for a year and see how it goes.
00:41:06.606 --> 00:41:07.717
Yeah, sure.
00:41:07.813 --> 00:41:14.023
, what are some of your favorite, like when people come to visit Paris, what are some of your favorite places to bring them?
00:41:14.150 --> 00:41:15.590
I'm kind of rusty.
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:22.250
, because I just haven't done anything for so long because of COVID but, , I think one of the things is just walking in the city.
00:41:22.250 --> 00:41:23.150
It's so beautiful.
00:41:23.570 --> 00:41:31.510
And then when you're tired, , get on one of the, one of the boats, the bathroom, which everyone says, oh, it's so touristy, but it's also so beautiful and relaxed.
00:41:32.324 --> 00:41:36.284
Yeah, it's really nice to just sit there and let the city, the city flow by.
00:41:36.375 --> 00:41:38.355
I think it's really, it's really beautiful.
00:41:38.625 --> 00:41:45.215
I really love, , I really loved the red wheelbarrow and just choosing a book and then go walking in the Luxembourg garden.
00:41:45.244 --> 00:41:48.485
, maybe having a, , coffee in that, in that neighborhood.
00:41:48.485 --> 00:41:51.275
It's just, that's kind of my, the three things I love to do.
00:41:51.327 --> 00:41:51.831
Sure.
00:41:51.992 --> 00:41:54.001
, where do you like to go for restaurants?
00:41:54.032 --> 00:41:56.192
What's your favorite French meal when you.
00:41:56.659 --> 00:42:01.460
Go out to eat and what they're going to order at the boulangerie again then, because of COVID.
00:42:01.460 --> 00:42:03.530
I w we just don't go out that much.
00:42:03.860 --> 00:42:14.909
I usually, if I go have anything it's usually at Zendo, , a Japanese restaurant in my neighborhood, , because it's just such a nice family and that's more, , it's just very, very convenient.
00:42:14.909 --> 00:42:16.570
And, , I really don't go out that much.
00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:19.030
Just I'm very sorry.
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:20.320
That's all right.
00:42:20.900 --> 00:42:26.847
, is there any way that you feel like you've sort of become very French from living here?
00:42:27.257 --> 00:42:30.016
I don't, I don't really feel French at all.
00:42:30.067 --> 00:42:41.126
, I've never taken French nationality, but I think when I go to the states and I see things like people going into grocery stores and not, , taking recyclable bags with them, it makes me really sad to see the way.
00:42:41.961 --> 00:42:48.731
So I don't necessarily feel French here, but I do appreciate, , I do appreciate the recycling efforts.
00:42:48.731 --> 00:42:53.351
I really appreciate the way that people really, , on a pretty big scale.
00:42:53.351 --> 00:42:56.141
I mean, getting rid of plastic bags, that was pretty cute.
00:42:56.681 --> 00:43:02.032
, and it's just, it's one of, it's an example of a small effort that everyone can make, , to make a big difference.
00:43:02.422 --> 00:43:05.961
So I, I guess I feel in that way, it's really, it's really cool.
00:43:06.202 --> 00:43:12.541
I see, Kim's asked a question about,, advice for anyone moving to Paris to fulfill their dream of being a writer.
00:43:12.824 --> 00:43:22.125
, I think if you want to move to Paris, you actually have to write, I know a lot of people who moved to Paris to write and they liked the lifestyle, but they never right.
00:43:22.335 --> 00:43:28.094
And so you really have to be rigorous with yourself because it's so easy to go anywhere.
00:43:28.155 --> 00:43:30.074
You know, it's such an interesting, beautiful city.
00:43:30.074 --> 00:43:31.335
It's so easy to get sick.
00:43:32.204 --> 00:43:48.605
So you really have to be reversed with yourself and, , maybe find a writing group or take a class, something that kind of keeps you on task because it's, it's very, it's easier to be a writer in Montana where there's not in rural Montana where there's not much to do in Paris where there's so much to do.
00:43:48.605 --> 00:43:51.034
And there's so many interesting things.
00:43:51.144 --> 00:43:53.635
, it it's, it's easy to get sidetracked.
00:43:53.965 --> 00:43:54.264
Yeah.
00:43:54.324 --> 00:43:57.385
And you do actually have to write to be a writer as I've learned.
00:43:57.985 --> 00:43:58.494
So, yeah.
00:43:58.494 --> 00:44:07.282
So I would just say really set reasonable goals for yourself,, reasonable goals for yourself and, and make sure you meet those goals.
00:44:07.942 --> 00:44:08.242
Yeah.
00:44:08.661 --> 00:44:16.192
And then do you have any particular places that people can look for writing group or any recommendations on how to find one that resonates with them?
00:44:16.822 --> 00:44:27.831
I've always seen, take a writing class and then find the people whose work, you enjoy, find the people whose feedback you appreciate and then break off and become your own group.
00:44:27.885 --> 00:44:28.394
Cool.
00:44:28.739 --> 00:44:37.461
, is there anything that you still really don't like after living here for so long, like something that really annoys you about France differently?
00:44:37.778 --> 00:44:39.068
I don't, I mean, I don't think so.
00:44:39.068 --> 00:44:48.259
One of the small, not about France, but I will say we have a little library in my neighborhood and, , the next, the very next day, someone ripped the door off.
00:44:48.315 --> 00:44:53.945
And so, , there is, I think there's a lot of casual vandalism and things like that here.
00:44:54.304 --> 00:45:00.184
And it's very hard to talk about it because when you look on people's Instagram feed, it's only beautiful things.
00:45:00.244 --> 00:45:04.422
And so it's very hard to talk about the problems here, , or the.
00:45:05.211 --> 00:45:17.389
Situations here sometimes just because they aren't visible to people because, mostly people want to focus on the croissants and the coffee and the museums and the architecture.
00:45:17.768 --> 00:45:18.728
myself included.
00:45:18.728 --> 00:45:19.869
I wrote a book about Paris.
00:45:19.898 --> 00:45:23.048
It's a very beautiful rosy image of Paris for the most part.
00:45:23.349 --> 00:45:35.358
So, , I think that's what's, if I were going to say something that's like maybe a downside it's that it's that it's, you're not really allowed to talk about the don't go well, yeah.
00:45:35.358 --> 00:45:39.518
I mean, I think there's a growing movement on social media, like, set cash Pappy.
00:45:39.528 --> 00:45:49.994
And the fact that, there's been a lot of vandalism, a lot of places where, you know, little zones where, there are drug users or, , you know, places that aren't safe.
00:45:50.025 --> 00:45:53.144
And, and I think there's there starting to be an awareness that.
00:45:53.583 --> 00:45:59.086
it's not always the perfect city, but there are also areas that you don't necessarily see as a tourist.
00:45:59.536 --> 00:46:00.467
You exactly.
00:46:00.586 --> 00:46:13.856
If you don't see until you're living here, , is there any way when you, or anything that when you go back to Montana, you just feel kind of out of place and like very French?
00:46:14.657 --> 00:46:20.447
No, I feel really lucky that I just kind of get into a rhythm there or get into a rhythm here.
00:46:20.507 --> 00:46:25.637
And so I feel at home in both places, I feel really lucky about that.
00:46:25.737 --> 00:46:26.126
Cool.
00:46:26.373 --> 00:46:27.784
And then last question.
00:46:27.833 --> 00:46:33.329
What advice would you have for somebody thinking about, moving to France generally, not even necessarily to be a writer.
00:46:35.349 --> 00:46:43.054
Coming for six months, maybe rent an apartment for six months and just get a feel of the place and, and see what you think.
00:46:43.114 --> 00:46:51.173
And then, , if you enjoy that, just maybe go for another six months or another six months or another six months, spoiler alert.
00:46:51.173 --> 00:46:54.054
That's a little bit hard from the visa perspective to do it that way.
00:46:57.534 --> 00:47:03.143
That might be what you want to do from the emotional perspective, but from the visa perspective, no, it's, it's true.
00:47:03.143 --> 00:47:03.653
And it's true.
00:47:03.653 --> 00:47:04.313
I had a visa.
00:47:04.313 --> 00:47:05.514
I had a year and a year visa.
00:47:05.514 --> 00:47:10.143
I had a, , I think I started working and it was a seven month contract and then it was a nine month contract.
00:47:10.384 --> 00:47:11.463
So it is, it's true.
00:47:11.463 --> 00:47:12.423
It's very hard.
00:47:12.503 --> 00:47:18.853
, it's very hard to, , for getting those, forgetting those visas and the, and the paperwork is, is really challenging.
00:47:19.063 --> 00:47:21.313
So I would just say, don't be discouraged by the paperwork.
00:47:21.344 --> 00:47:27.313
It's just something everyone has to go through, but don't, don't be discouraged or don't worry about it.
00:47:27.500 --> 00:47:32.989
I spent a lot of time worrying about it and I wish I could take back that emotional energy that I spent worrying.
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:33.599
Yeah.
00:47:33.630 --> 00:47:33.900
Yeah.
00:47:33.929 --> 00:47:37.797
Because really it'll all get taken care of eventually.
00:47:38.614 --> 00:47:39.034
All right.
00:47:39.034 --> 00:47:42.304
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
00:47:42.333 --> 00:47:47.403
It was lovely to talk to you and to learn more about the book and about you.
00:47:47.494 --> 00:47:54.333
, and yeah, we will be sharing obviously links for where people can buy the book and we'll look forward to hearing about the next one.
00:47:54.396 --> 00:47:59.467
Oh, well, thank you so much for having me in for such a deep reading of the book and your insightful questions.
00:47:59.467 --> 00:48:00.246
I appreciate it.
00:48:00.606 --> 00:48:01.206
All right.
00:48:01.867 --> 00:48:02.467
Take care.
00:48:02.556 --> 00:48:02.887
Thank you.
00:48:02.887 --> 00:48:03.996
Bye-bye bye.
00:48:09.451 --> 00:48:13.880
Thanks for listening to this episode of Profiles in Franceformation with Allison Grant Lounes.
00:48:14.221 --> 00:48:17.851
If you liked this episode, please like subscribe and share on social media.
00:48:18.541 --> 00:48:20.340
I'll see you next time for a new episode.
00:48:20.340 --> 00:48:23.701
And in the meantime, I've hope we've inspired you today to pursue your dreams.
00:48:23.731 --> 00:48:30.811
No matter how big or small, remember the way you bring your own dreams into reality is by believing in yourself and taking small steps towards your.
00:48:31.726 --> 00:48:33.286
Start today, start now.
00:48:33.615 --> 00:48:34.335
And at the end too,
00:00:13.929 --> 00:00:27.550
You're listening to Profiles in Franceformation, the podcast where we hear from inspiring people who have pursued their dream of moving to France, we learn about why they moved, how they overcame the challenge that they faced and what they love and hate about living in.
00:00:28.649 --> 00:00:34.320
I hope that hearing their stories can help you to pursue your dreams and maybe your very own transformation.
00:00:35.219 --> 00:00:36.899
I'm your host, Allison Grant Lounes.
00:00:36.988 --> 00:00:40.950
And I'm here to tell you my guests followed their dreams and you can follow yours too.
00:00:41.250 --> 00:00:42.149
It starts today.
00:00:48.308 --> 00:00:51.529
Welcome to episode 36 of Profiles in Franceformation.
00:00:51.728 --> 00:01:07.748
And this episode, we have a very special guest, Janet Skeslien Charles, the New York times bestselling author of The Paris Library and historical fiction novel about a young French woman, Odile Souchet who lands her dream job, working at the American library in Paris, just before the German occupation of Paris and world war.
00:01:08.998 --> 00:01:19.198
Janet became enamored with France as a young girl, after hearing stories from the war bride who lived in her hometown and she has lived and worked in France since 1998, when she came as an English teaching assistant.
00:01:19.528 --> 00:01:20.308
Welcome Janet.
00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:24.870
So welcome and thank you so much for joining me.
00:01:24.950 --> 00:01:27.049
I really loved this book.
00:01:27.500 --> 00:01:32.807
It was so beautiful and I'm so glad that you're able to join us and talk about it.
00:01:32.807 --> 00:01:34.846
So we have questions for you.
00:01:35.716 --> 00:01:37.037
Thank you for reading and thank you for your.
00:01:37.534 --> 00:01:38.105
Yeah.
00:01:38.525 --> 00:01:49.875
So, my first question is, in the bio, in the back of the book, you mentioned how, when you were growing up, you knew a of a war bride, in your town.
00:01:49.875 --> 00:01:57.302
So my first question is how much of that person, did you know her in real life?
00:01:57.382 --> 00:01:58.701
What about her story?
00:01:58.787 --> 00:02:04.628
Informed some of the character of Odile, when you were coming up with the story and the narrative.
00:02:04.938 --> 00:02:09.497
I think, well, I grew up three blocks away from a war bride from flew home.
00:02:09.888 --> 00:02:16.937
And as a girl, I was just completely interested in her because she was so different from the other women.
00:02:17.418 --> 00:02:20.837
And just the way she spoke, the way she held herself.
00:02:20.844 --> 00:02:32.018
And I just thought her, it was so brave of her to leave behind her friends, her family, her country, her language, and take this huge chance on love.
00:02:32.048 --> 00:02:37.478
You know, I think a lot of the, the war rides who married GIS did not get a chance to really know them very well.
00:02:38.182 --> 00:02:38.483
Yeah.
00:02:38.483 --> 00:02:40.522
So it was really a leap of faith.
00:02:40.913 --> 00:02:45.073
So, even as a small child, I thought she was very brave.
00:02:45.423 --> 00:02:47.582
I was not very close to her.
00:02:47.612 --> 00:02:57.573
I was very close to my own grandmother, but I think because of her, I wanted to take French in high school and I was always very interested in French culture.
00:02:57.573 --> 00:02:59.432
So it's really thanks to Mrs.
00:02:59.432 --> 00:03:02.712
Maynard, that, I came to France that first time when I was 15.
00:03:03.282 --> 00:03:03.913
Yeah.
00:03:03.953 --> 00:03:07.703
And it's interesting that you say that, you know, you, you see Mrs.
00:03:07.703 --> 00:03:15.582
Maynard as being brave and, you know, coming to a new country, but for Odile, it wasn't really that brave.
00:03:15.612 --> 00:03:23.990
I mean, it was brave in a sense that it's difficult to leave your home, but, the reasons that Odile left in part were not super brave.
00:03:24.377 --> 00:03:26.206
And I don't want to get into any spoilers.
00:03:26.206 --> 00:03:27.556
We said no, no.
00:03:27.556 --> 00:03:28.426
He said no spoilers.
00:03:28.637 --> 00:03:39.887
Well, I think all the women of that generation who left, Europe, or Japan and went to the United States were incredibly, incredibly brave because a lot of them never got to go home.
00:03:40.247 --> 00:03:42.137
It was so expensive to go home.
00:03:42.437 --> 00:03:46.127
And if they realize they've made a mistake, divorce, wasn't really an option.
00:03:46.477 --> 00:03:50.076
It was harder and maybe really frowned upon to get divorced back then.
00:03:50.106 --> 00:03:53.687
Phone calls were so expensive letters took so long.
00:03:54.016 --> 00:03:58.516
So I view all of those women as incredibly brave Odile.
00:03:58.567 --> 00:04:06.676
I think when she decided she had to leave, it was at first shame that drove her and looking for an easy escape.
00:04:06.742 --> 00:04:09.173
But I also think it was because she needed to show.
00:04:09.173 --> 00:04:10.163
She was sorry.
00:04:10.252 --> 00:04:13.703
And so she gave up, she gave up something that was very important.
00:04:14.423 --> 00:04:16.463
So that her friend Margaret could have it.
00:04:16.463 --> 00:04:24.802
So I think the initial motivation was shamed, but I think after that, the motivation was with more selfless.
00:04:24.862 --> 00:04:25.252
Yeah.
00:04:25.413 --> 00:04:25.692
Yeah.
00:04:26.002 --> 00:04:26.483
That's true.
00:04:26.632 --> 00:04:26.932
True.
00:04:27.100 --> 00:04:30.033
So you were 15 the first time you came to Paris.
00:04:30.033 --> 00:04:34.322
So tell me about that trip and what was it like for you when you visited for the first time?
00:04:34.350 --> 00:04:38.399
I was in Metz in Lorraine and I absolutely love it.
00:04:38.490 --> 00:04:40.379
I fell in love with my host family.
00:04:40.410 --> 00:04:43.620
I, I just noticed every single detail.
00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:46.350
I took photographs of every element of the house.
00:04:46.367 --> 00:04:47.357
even the toilet.
00:04:47.466 --> 00:04:51.666
I just, everything was different and fascinating Timmy.
00:04:51.757 --> 00:04:58.833
And I think that those early moments, with that host family that were so kind got me through tougher times later on, in.
00:04:59.507 --> 00:04:59.958
Yeah.
00:05:00.057 --> 00:05:05.536
What were some of your first impressions of French culture when you took that first trip?
00:05:05.607 --> 00:05:14.026
I think, it just, I remember my host mother putting a little bit of sugar, in her yogurt, which I had never seen before.
00:05:14.377 --> 00:05:15.937
Just these little tiny things like that.
00:05:15.937 --> 00:05:17.916
She spent a lot of time ironing.
00:05:17.976 --> 00:05:20.107
I didn't know anyone who spent time ironing.
00:05:20.466 --> 00:05:28.646
She said one of the things that shocked me is, I took a can of Coca-Cola and I walked down the street with it.
00:05:28.916 --> 00:05:33.956
She said, and tell me, she'd only seen people eating or drinking at the table.
00:05:34.103 --> 00:05:39.913
And so I think it went both ways that, the things that we noticed, about each other were surprised.
00:05:40.014 --> 00:05:41.934
I definitely surprised them as well.
00:05:42.384 --> 00:05:42.863
Yeah.
00:05:43.134 --> 00:05:43.553
Yeah.
00:05:43.894 --> 00:05:45.093
And how much of that trip.
00:05:45.343 --> 00:05:51.014
It did it at all make you think you would come back to France or write a book about France at some point?
00:05:51.144 --> 00:05:53.783
I think I always wanted to come back to France.
00:05:53.783 --> 00:05:55.223
I just, I really fell in love with it.
00:05:55.223 --> 00:05:55.853
At 15.
00:05:55.853 --> 00:05:57.884
I spent a month here with a family.
00:05:58.244 --> 00:06:03.553
And then the family's daughter came to visit us in Montana and then I returned here.
00:06:03.764 --> 00:06:05.963
So it was really, a lovely friendship.
00:06:06.084 --> 00:06:12.553
And, I think when you feel that friendship, it's easy to, to feel that you have a place in that country.
00:06:12.574 --> 00:06:13.024
Yeah.
00:06:13.264 --> 00:06:14.223
Yeah, for sure.
00:06:14.326 --> 00:06:18.697
So tell me about how did you make some of your first French friends during that time and.
00:06:19.047 --> 00:06:24.627
What were some of the differences you noticed between making friends in France and making friends back home?
00:06:24.757 --> 00:06:28.298
I went to, a few days of school with the girl in the host family.
00:06:28.327 --> 00:06:30.398
And so it was very easy as a teen.
00:06:30.398 --> 00:06:35.858
It's very easy to talk to people in France because everyone uses to use the informal.
00:06:36.098 --> 00:06:47.978
I think it's a lot trickier, as an adult and navigating the tu and the vous, the happiest I've ever been in a working situation is when I was teaching at a local junior high.
00:06:48.307 --> 00:06:55.475
And the head teacher told me, ici, on se tutoie avec plaisir we use the informal tu with pleasure.
00:06:55.774 --> 00:07:00.925
And so she really, so just kind of telling me what the rules were, was really helpful.
00:07:01.326 --> 00:07:01.716
Yeah.
00:07:01.750 --> 00:07:02.199
Yeah.
00:07:02.259 --> 00:07:02.620
Cause yeah.
00:07:02.649 --> 00:07:02.750
Okay.
00:07:02.750 --> 00:07:03.850
It can be really difficult.
00:07:03.899 --> 00:07:18.822
when you have to think about how to conjugate plus what you're trying to say, I'm trying to remember, because at a certain point you have like 200 people in your head and you've got to remember, do they need any Sydney to, with me?
00:07:18.822 --> 00:07:21.492
Do they say, Ooh, should I say tu or vous with them?
00:07:21.913 --> 00:07:27.052
And I have to say for my first book, my editor to 12, me she's two.
00:07:27.322 --> 00:07:38.416
And then we haven't seen each other for awhile and she moved a lot to me and I, and then, so she, even French people sometimes I think can kind of forget and yeah.
00:07:38.747 --> 00:07:39.797
And not on purpose.
00:07:39.797 --> 00:07:43.307
It's just, she has a huge Rolodex of authors in her mind too.
00:07:43.307 --> 00:07:45.226
And she can't keep everyone straight either.
00:07:45.586 --> 00:07:46.127
Yeah.
00:07:46.156 --> 00:07:47.266
Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:47.487 --> 00:07:51.776
so tell me about when you came back to France, you came back.
00:07:52.144 --> 00:07:54.845
With TAPIF as a language assistant.
00:07:55.204 --> 00:07:57.004
And then you stayed, right.
00:07:57.004 --> 00:08:01.324
So tell me about how you officially sort of relocated here.
00:08:02.314 --> 00:08:08.855
Well, I wouldn't say officially because, because I came for, I really came for a school year.
00:08:08.855 --> 00:08:16.524
I came as a teaching assistant, I worked in a local high school in Alsace-Lorraine and in Lewes, and I really loved it.
00:08:16.555 --> 00:08:19.625
My colleagues were just very friendly and very kind.
00:08:20.074 --> 00:08:23.394
And, I lived 30 minutes from Germany, 30 minutes from Switzerland.
00:08:23.394 --> 00:08:25.855
So it seemed very international.
00:08:26.274 --> 00:08:28.074
It was a wonderful experience.
00:08:28.074 --> 00:08:36.251
I met my husband, so I signed up again to be an assistant, this time, I was living in Paris with my soon to be husband.
00:08:36.522 --> 00:08:42.351
So I ended up, working close to Versailles and , that was a little trickier.
00:08:42.357 --> 00:08:44.097
The colleagues weren't as friendly.
00:08:44.607 --> 00:08:52.408
And I think when you're a teaching assistant, you're kind of viewed as why, why get to know that person, because they're just passing through their hero figure and then they're gone.
00:08:52.677 --> 00:08:55.794
So it was a little more challenging in the production area.
00:08:55.794 --> 00:08:56.215
Yeah.
00:08:56.544 --> 00:08:57.565
Yeah, absolutely.
00:08:57.668 --> 00:09:05.768
So how did you transition out of that to be able to stay and what brought you to the American library?
00:09:05.822 --> 00:09:08.522
Well, I think I was an assistant for six years.
00:09:08.611 --> 00:09:12.422
At least I just kept on renewing and it was easy.
00:09:12.422 --> 00:09:18.761
It was easy to renew because even when I think one year I was refused, they said, no, you can't be an assistant anymore.
00:09:18.822 --> 00:09:22.034
the following school year, they said we need someone help.
00:09:24.552 --> 00:09:28.802
cause there's always the people, you know, who have to back out or their travel plans change, things like this.
00:09:29.042 --> 00:09:32.562
So, it took me a long time to transition out of that job.
00:09:32.611 --> 00:09:34.802
, just because it was so nice to have the summers off.
00:09:34.812 --> 00:09:39.402
And it was, it was really important to me to be able to go home, to see my family in Montana.
00:09:39.522 --> 00:09:44.591
And I think that can maybe be concerned for a lot of people who move abroad that flexibility.
00:09:44.621 --> 00:09:51.861
And, I have to say in France, the school system has it's sometimes it seems more holidays and vacations and actual days in school.
00:09:52.701 --> 00:10:03.052
So it, it, it's very nice if you, you know, like me, if you want to work on writing projects or want to travel, it's it's a very, it's a, it's a good job to have.
00:10:03.087 --> 00:10:03.477
Yeah.
00:10:03.495 --> 00:10:03.794
Yeah.
00:10:03.825 --> 00:10:04.904
My, my son is seven.
00:10:04.904 --> 00:10:06.164
He's never in school.
00:10:09.044 --> 00:10:10.845
And the month of may is coming up too.
00:10:10.845 --> 00:10:13.245
So he really won't be in school.
00:10:13.245 --> 00:10:13.664
I'm sure.
00:10:13.664 --> 00:10:16.485
With all of the, all of the holidays, right?
00:10:16.485 --> 00:10:20.115
Well, we do have the problem this year of May 1st and May 8th or both on Sundays.
00:10:20.115 --> 00:10:23.884
So we get kind of screwed out of two days off this year, but.
00:10:27.059 --> 00:10:32.970
So how did you start at the American library and what brought you there and what did you do when you were there?
00:10:33.509 --> 00:10:38.259
Well, I started at the library, like most people who work there, I started as a volunteer.
00:10:38.259 --> 00:10:42.879
I led creative writing workshops for teens at first with the children's librarians.
00:10:43.509 --> 00:10:48.220
And then, Ann Mah who is a novelist, was leaving to write full-time.
00:10:48.220 --> 00:10:49.929
She was the programs manager.
00:10:50.259 --> 00:10:54.070
And so we were having lunch right before she was leaving the library.
00:10:54.070 --> 00:10:56.470
And so she suggested that I applied.
00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:58.200
And so that's what I did.
00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:00.470
And, I stayed there for two years.
00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:01.490
It was a job.
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:04.610
That was 15 hours a week at the time.
00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:07.220
Now I think it's a full-time job.
00:11:07.429 --> 00:11:09.679
And I have to say it was a full-time job then.
00:11:10.009 --> 00:11:10.309
Yeah.
00:11:10.730 --> 00:11:14.480
And so it was one of those jobs where it was all or nothing.
00:11:14.539 --> 00:11:22.629
And, when you're a writer, you really need a job where you have a little more flexibility so that you can spend time on your passions.
00:11:22.659 --> 00:11:23.139
Yeah.
00:11:23.740 --> 00:11:24.100
Yeah.
00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:33.840
I forget what Elizabeth Gilbert calls it, but she had, she had a term for the good enough job that pays your bills so that you can write in all of your spare time.
00:11:34.379 --> 00:11:36.029
Exactly, exactly.
00:11:36.029 --> 00:11:41.830
And so after the library, I got a job teaching, university students that had code for your technique.
00:11:42.220 --> 00:11:47.139
And so it was the same amount of hours per week, but it gave me the mental space.
00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:51.100
And I think working with students, you really feel an optimism towards the future.
00:11:51.100 --> 00:11:55.059
And you see, you see the future generation and how smart and wise they are.
00:11:55.059 --> 00:11:56.740
And that really gives you a lot of energy.
00:11:57.279 --> 00:11:57.759
Yeah.
00:11:58.149 --> 00:11:58.509
Yeah.
00:11:58.677 --> 00:12:11.638
What part of, so the, the Paris library is of course based on well it's fiction, but you interviewed a lot of people who were at the American library and you researched a lot of the history.
00:12:11.638 --> 00:12:18.351
So what were some of the characters that, were inspired by real people?
00:12:18.351 --> 00:12:19.861
And who did you talk to?
00:12:19.861 --> 00:12:23.282
How did you sort of do your research into writing the story?
00:12:23.347 --> 00:12:30.898
Well, for people who, might not be familiar with my book, The Paris Library I will just say that it's a world war II.
00:12:31.663 --> 00:12:32.982
Paris is occupied.
00:12:33.222 --> 00:12:38.202
There's a war on words and it's not Susan versus American librarian since the librarians win.
00:12:38.653 --> 00:12:41.592
And it's the true story of the librarians.
00:12:41.643 --> 00:12:55.432
And it was the American library, but it was actually librarians from France, Switzerland, England, Canada, Russia, the United States who all band together and, defied the Nazis in order to hand deliver books to Jewish readers.
00:12:55.472 --> 00:12:57.062
I did a lot of research.
00:12:57.062 --> 00:13:08.712
I contacted a lot of the families, talked to a lot of the descendants of the librarians and, it was very interesting to talk to family members with interesting to read their diaries and their letters.
00:13:08.817 --> 00:13:12.586
It was really an honor choose to really speak to the people.
00:13:13.006 --> 00:13:13.547
A lot of things.
00:13:14.731 --> 00:13:19.461
I learned about it when I was working at the library, one of my colleagues, was talking about it.
00:13:19.611 --> 00:13:21.351
And so that's really where I heard about it.
00:13:21.511 --> 00:13:22.552
It was in the back office.
00:13:22.552 --> 00:13:23.392
It's a library.
00:13:24.081 --> 00:13:24.532
Yeah.
00:13:24.741 --> 00:13:39.412
Well, one of the things that surprised me and that I admit, I didn't know about the history was the part about the Canadians and the British, in Paris, either being expelled or going to camps and things like that, because they were the enemy.
00:13:40.282 --> 00:13:41.091
Exactly.
00:13:41.091 --> 00:13:42.471
And even still be a beach.
00:13:42.501 --> 00:13:47.392
The original owner of Shakespeare and company was in an internment camp in the east for a time.
00:13:47.392 --> 00:13:54.111
Because once America entered the war in 1941, then Americans too, were alien enemies.
00:13:54.142 --> 00:14:00.506
So yes, it was really, and I mean, They were not shy about rescuing children and women.
00:14:00.506 --> 00:14:01.826
It was really a scary time.
00:14:02.246 --> 00:14:02.787
Yeah.
00:14:02.846 --> 00:14:03.206
Yeah.
00:14:03.236 --> 00:14:18.706
And I mean, I think there's a lot of that dilemma in, again, no spoilers, but, the different ways that people avoided being captured or flying under the radar or if they were captured getting out of that situation.
00:14:18.989 --> 00:14:19.969
There there's a lot of.
00:14:20.466 --> 00:14:21.365
Ambiguity.
00:14:21.765 --> 00:14:24.865
Which actually brings me to one of my questions, in the very beginning.
00:14:24.865 --> 00:14:30.855
So we, we see, Odile when she's preparing for her job, or her job interview.
00:14:31.346 --> 00:14:35.155
We learn about she's classifying everything with the Dewey decimal system.
00:14:35.155 --> 00:14:37.745
And she's like, you know, I prefer cats.
00:14:37.745 --> 00:14:45.035
It's 8 30, 6, I'm making up the numbers because I don't remember them 8 30, 6 0.7, but my brother, you know, prefers dogs 8 30, 6 0.8.
00:14:45.725 --> 00:14:50.105
And she learned the Dewey decimal system from her aunt who brought her to the American library.
00:14:50.135 --> 00:14:57.086
And, every time she references a book or a thought or a, or a series of thoughts, she's bringing up this Dewey decimal system.
00:14:57.086 --> 00:14:59.826
And so there's a lot of classification.
00:15:00.109 --> 00:15:08.296
And then I think the really interesting thing is, is as the book goes on, we see how difficult it is to classify people and actions and.
00:15:08.741 --> 00:15:23.182
History and everything into good or not good, or, in favor of Germany or, the resistance and everybody sort of exists in like this gray area that can't be defined.
00:15:23.245 --> 00:15:24.025
Yes, it's true.
00:15:24.025 --> 00:15:24.385
It's true.
00:15:24.385 --> 00:15:24.716
She is.
00:15:24.745 --> 00:15:29.426
I think it's a coping mechanism for her at first to be able to classify these things.
00:15:29.426 --> 00:15:40.785
And she's not very good with people, but she's pretty good with books and, she uses that system, but at a certain point, all the memorization in the world can't help because there are things we cannot classify.
00:15:40.785 --> 00:15:41.716
That's a really good point.
00:15:42.076 --> 00:15:42.346
Yeah.
00:15:42.346 --> 00:15:45.556
Well, and it does taper off as the story progresses.
00:15:46.125 --> 00:15:46.426
And.
00:15:46.797 --> 00:15:52.964
I think the only person that she can really classify is her brother Remi.
00:15:53.046 --> 00:15:57.586
And I think he's really the only one that you could sort of pin down in terms of where he stood.
00:15:57.615 --> 00:16:05.243
And, he didn't, he just, we know exactly what it, and I mean, he said exactly what he thought.
00:16:05.243 --> 00:16:06.383
He wore his heart on his sleeve.
00:16:06.413 --> 00:16:09.893
His actions were in alignment with his ideals.
00:16:09.993 --> 00:16:11.903
He's a big supporter of Odile.
00:16:12.003 --> 00:16:16.413
I think he's probably one of the only characters that you can really say, he's good.
00:16:16.533 --> 00:16:18.066
Throughout the whole story, Yes.
00:16:18.066 --> 00:16:19.836
I think everybody's pretty nuanced.
00:16:20.046 --> 00:16:23.645
We all have our positive and negative points and it's true.
00:16:23.645 --> 00:16:24.822
It's hard.
00:16:24.875 --> 00:16:25.176
Yeah.
00:16:25.176 --> 00:16:34.076
And now that I'm thinking about it, how much of Remy being pure, pure good is s perspective because of her relationship with him.
00:16:34.225 --> 00:16:34.525
True.
00:16:34.556 --> 00:16:35.456
Very true.
00:16:35.456 --> 00:16:37.076
And he's so good.
00:16:37.076 --> 00:16:40.105
And that makes her feel bad at times, or like she can't do anything.
00:16:40.105 --> 00:16:40.466
Right.
00:16:40.466 --> 00:16:47.582
So it's sometimes having someone that good or that, kind is, can be very hard sometimes because you can't live up to that.
00:16:47.605 --> 00:16:48.206
For sure.
00:16:48.385 --> 00:16:48.956
For sure.
00:16:49.409 --> 00:16:56.509
So switching back into your personal story, did you always know that you were going to be a writer and how did you get started?
00:16:56.860 --> 00:16:58.149
Writing novels.
00:16:58.182 --> 00:17:00.043
I knew that I was a writer.
00:17:00.043 --> 00:17:03.312
Maybe now I'm an author, but I I've always been a writer.
00:17:03.312 --> 00:17:06.282
I've always had journals and always been observing people.
00:17:06.583 --> 00:17:11.839
I took a writing class or two as an undergraduate, which, there weren't that many options.
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:20.450
I went to the university of Montana and, for undergraduates there just weren't that many classes I think now, they have, I have an MFA program, as well.
00:17:20.509 --> 00:17:31.460
And so I, I took a class or two, as a graduate student as well, but, mainly, I've always worked with the writing group just because writing is so solitary.
00:17:31.460 --> 00:17:36.130
I think it's important to kind of have that comradery with other writers.
00:17:36.220 --> 00:17:44.369
And usually if I'm having trouble in my own text or something's not working and I read someone else's and I see they have the same problem seeing.
00:17:44.674 --> 00:17:48.934
How it doesn't work in their text helps me understand why it's not working in mine.
00:17:49.025 --> 00:17:56.015
So it's also really gratifying to see someone's first draft go-to and become a published book.
00:17:56.134 --> 00:17:58.984
That's really gratifying to see all the different steps.
00:17:58.984 --> 00:18:01.144
And you see how much hard work goes into a book.
00:18:01.184 --> 00:18:01.724
Yeah.
00:18:01.785 --> 00:18:02.174
Yeah.
00:18:02.204 --> 00:18:04.694
Because at the beginning, you just have to get the story down.
00:18:05.535 --> 00:18:06.464
Yes, exactly.
00:18:06.464 --> 00:18:09.835
And you can't be too inhibited because otherwise you wouldn't write anything.
00:18:09.835 --> 00:18:12.204
So you've just got to let it, you just let it go.
00:18:12.775 --> 00:18:21.474
I have that problem to be inhibited or just to let it all go to being inhibited during the writing process.
00:18:22.105 --> 00:18:22.345
Yeah.
00:18:22.345 --> 00:18:26.444
I know you can't be inhibited and just, you just have to just let it out and.
00:18:27.430 --> 00:18:28.390
You'll edit it later.
00:18:28.450 --> 00:18:32.619
Cause if there's nothing to edit lots of worst problems and right.
00:18:32.650 --> 00:18:33.940
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:34.369 --> 00:18:52.890
So how did you find these different groups when you first got to Paris and you were working on your writing, how did you find these groups to write with,, were there any, did you find Paris, as inspiring as everybody else who comes here to write the great American novel?
00:18:53.369 --> 00:18:55.349
I find, I find it very hard.
00:18:55.349 --> 00:18:57.269
I found it very, very hard.
00:18:57.269 --> 00:19:04.259
I signed up for a writing group, but all of the people who've been in the writing group had been in it for 10 years.
00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:10.170
So they're just w it was very, you couldn't really break in, they were their set group.
00:19:10.170 --> 00:19:11.069
And that was that.
00:19:11.145 --> 00:19:16.536
I was in one group with men and it didn't matter what we wrote, they would just say put more sex in there.
00:19:17.145 --> 00:19:26.865
I, well, it's about teaching, not really my genre.
00:19:30.855 --> 00:19:35.175
So yes, having a teacher, having an affair with a student, not a good idea.
00:19:35.566 --> 00:19:37.965
So it really took me a lot of time.
00:19:37.965 --> 00:19:45.413
And one of the things I actually did was cause I wasn't finding people was I actually asked, Sylvia Whitman at Shakespeare company.
00:19:45.682 --> 00:19:49.853
If I could lead a writing workshop in the upstairs library.
00:19:49.972 --> 00:19:51.113
And so she said, yes.
00:19:51.383 --> 00:19:58.823
So for several years, I met with writers, and I led the writing workshop, but it wasn't, it was more so I could find like-minded people.
00:19:58.972 --> 00:20:00.383
And that was really a lot of fun.
00:20:00.952 --> 00:20:01.373
Yeah.
00:20:01.823 --> 00:20:07.663
I find that a lot of people come to Paris with the idea of a creative project and the idea that.
00:20:07.959 --> 00:20:13.959
A lot of great American authors and artists, musicians come to Paris.
00:20:14.058 --> 00:20:19.189
And like to create those, those spaces for creativity, for writing.
00:20:19.628 --> 00:20:22.979
What are some of your other writing habits in Paris?
00:20:23.488 --> 00:20:29.897
I don't know if you agree, but I feel like Paris has been really noisy the last few years because of the construction.
00:20:29.958 --> 00:20:35.897
Everything is under construction, replacing water pipes, replacing wires.
00:20:36.258 --> 00:20:38.298
And so it's in my neighborhood.
00:20:38.298 --> 00:20:40.397
There's nonstop jackhammering.
00:20:40.817 --> 00:20:45.438
And so I like to get up early before the city gets up and get some writing in.
00:20:45.647 --> 00:20:47.877
And, that's really important.
00:20:47.877 --> 00:20:52.258
And then later in the day, when my mind is less furnished, that's when I do my research.
00:20:52.284 --> 00:20:53.693
This is Kim's question.
00:20:53.743 --> 00:20:58.394
Was Lily inspired at all by your own experience and meeting this woman?
00:20:58.443 --> 00:20:58.773
Mrs.
00:20:58.773 --> 00:21:00.604
Maynard, who lived in your town?
00:21:00.703 --> 00:21:06.044
Was there any part of her story of Lily story that is autobiographical for you?
00:21:06.703 --> 00:21:13.874
Well, I think the main part of Lily's story that's autobiographical is just that desire to get out.
00:21:14.084 --> 00:21:18.824
I just wanted out and I was convinced that big cities offer more.
00:21:19.124 --> 00:21:26.693
For example, I, when I was studying French in high school, we had two years of French and that's it down the road, 80 miles.
00:21:26.693 --> 00:21:31.923
My cousin had the opportunity to take French German, Spanish four years of each.
00:21:32.284 --> 00:21:36.238
So I just felt like there was a real lack.
00:21:36.327 --> 00:21:40.468
And now I realize how lucky I was because all of my teachers were so attentive.
00:21:41.288 --> 00:21:42.907
Yeah, it was a small town.
00:21:42.968 --> 00:21:49.087
And so they really looked out for us and they were really teaching because they loved it and they loved being with students.
00:21:49.428 --> 00:21:59.587
And so that was something that I, I knew at the time, but I don't know if I appreciated it as much then maybe I saw that, attention and care as, as, , intrusion.
00:22:00.337 --> 00:22:03.248
Because as a teenager you just want to be free.
00:22:03.667 --> 00:22:11.857
So, I think that's where Lily comes in because feeling, feeling like she's been tied down because she lives in a, in a small town.
00:22:12.307 --> 00:22:15.817
And of course with the pandemic I want to do was get back home.
00:22:15.817 --> 00:22:23.107
And I, was one of the first times I wasn't able to 2020, it was the first time I wasn't able to go to Montana and that was really hard.
00:22:23.647 --> 00:22:33.268
And, but for the rest, and I think that obsession was with the war bride, but of course, Lily is very close to Odile and I, I observed a war bride from the.
00:22:34.242 --> 00:22:34.482
Yeah.
00:22:34.919 --> 00:22:42.472
and what caused you to have the idea for this sort of dual timeline and the story frame of Lily meeting, Mrs.
00:22:42.512 --> 00:22:49.739
Gustafsson, who was Odile, and having that sort of present day reflection on Mrs.
00:22:49.739 --> 00:22:54.608
Gustafsson sort of coming to terms with what had truly happened during the war?
00:22:55.979 --> 00:22:59.729
I think today people are so used to.
00:22:59.769 --> 00:23:01.778
Maybe focusing on themselves.
00:23:01.808 --> 00:23:08.499
I see people in, in parks and in Paris, and instead of taking pictures of things, they take pictures of things.
00:23:08.598 --> 00:23:09.638
They take selfies.
00:23:09.715 --> 00:23:14.846
And even like I saw a little girl, just maybe two or three years old and she was already taking selfies.
00:23:14.905 --> 00:23:19.256
And I think we maybe are losing that interest in other people.
00:23:19.885 --> 00:23:26.006
And we lose a lot of stories that way, where you're so interested in talking about ourselves or showing pictures about ourselves.
00:23:26.276 --> 00:23:31.556
And I mean, you can look at some people's Instagram accounts and it's just literally selfies of themselves.
00:23:31.675 --> 00:23:37.506
And that's really shocking to see, for me anyway, I think I'm more interested in other people.
00:23:37.506 --> 00:23:40.355
And I think it's important for us to take interest in other people.
00:23:40.865 --> 00:23:55.635
And I see a lot of books set in Paris with Parisian author or with Parisian characters, but I think that's important to remember that teenage girls have rich inner lives and their stories are just as valuable as other stories.
00:23:55.638 --> 00:23:56.148
Yeah.
00:23:56.479 --> 00:24:00.365
Well, and teenage girls are a demographic that their stories are dismissed a lot.
00:24:00.756 --> 00:24:02.346
Exactly, exactly.
00:24:02.346 --> 00:24:16.108
And a lot of men who have read my book, a lot of their criticism is like, oh, it's like, it's written like Y a and I have to say one of my favorite books, growing up still now is, the outsiders by se Hinton a 16 year old girl.
00:24:16.348 --> 00:24:19.919
I just think it's absolutely beautiful or bridge to Terabithia.
00:24:19.949 --> 00:24:24.568
I think it's such a beautiful book or even, the hunger games.
00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:27.861
The end of the hunger games was such a punch in the gut.
00:24:27.951 --> 00:24:29.000
I still feel it.
00:24:29.080 --> 00:24:31.191
It just, I thought it was absolutely brilliant.
00:24:31.560 --> 00:24:36.030
But as you say, just write as if writing for a teenage girls as if it's a slur.
00:24:36.391 --> 00:24:39.250
And actually it's a great responsibility and an honor.
00:24:39.701 --> 00:24:40.181
Yeah.
00:24:41.020 --> 00:24:41.290
Yeah.
00:24:41.320 --> 00:24:42.760
And that's a really interesting point.
00:24:42.760 --> 00:24:49.364
I, I often think about how, when you're growing up and reading literature, it's almost always male main character.
00:24:49.364 --> 00:25:00.300
So you always have, you know, catcher in the rye or, what percentage of books that you read as a child, focus on a male teenager, and tell that story.
00:25:00.461 --> 00:25:05.789
And so young or adolescent girls are constantly putting themselves in.
00:25:06.069 --> 00:25:10.242
The mind or in the character of the young man character.
00:25:10.482 --> 00:25:19.093
Whereas I think it's really uncommon for boys and teenagers to read stories about young women and to do empathize and put themselves in their shoes.
00:25:19.196 --> 00:25:21.237
I think that's, I think that's definitely true.
00:25:21.237 --> 00:25:23.277
And I, there was a story with the hunger games.
00:25:23.326 --> 00:25:31.156
A colleague who works at Simon and Schuster gave the book to his son and the son must've got halfway through it and he came back at his dad and he's super mad.
00:25:31.156 --> 00:25:35.386
He's like, yeah, but I love that.
00:25:35.446 --> 00:25:36.676
And I looked at, I love that.
00:25:36.676 --> 00:25:38.807
He didn't know that for the first half of the book.
00:25:38.836 --> 00:25:40.727
And, I think that's really interesting.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:45.509
I mean, it's kind of obvious, but that was a name.
00:25:45.509 --> 00:25:52.049
I mean, not with the, it's not a, you know, it's not a Brittany name or it's, you know, where it's, it's obvious from the.
00:25:52.450 --> 00:25:53.170
From the name.
00:25:53.170 --> 00:26:02.470
And I think it's, I just think it's really good to, I, I think as a, in English, we're going, instead of saying he or she saying they, so everything's not gendered.
00:26:02.470 --> 00:26:03.759
I think it's really interesting.
00:26:03.823 --> 00:26:04.303
Yeah.
00:26:04.346 --> 00:26:04.826
Yeah.
00:26:05.202 --> 00:26:14.567
but that's, I mean, that's kind of sad that, you wouldn't want to read a story about, I mean, I grew up on Harry Potter, so I think he kept reading.
00:26:14.567 --> 00:26:16.696
It was just, he was just, he was surprised.
00:26:16.727 --> 00:26:18.287
He was sure he liked it.
00:26:18.287 --> 00:26:19.336
I'm sure he continued.
00:26:19.336 --> 00:26:27.376
It was just, it was just a surprise, but just, it was just, as you were saying, you were so used to reading about boys that he was surprised to be reading about a girl.
00:26:28.186 --> 00:26:28.696
Yeah.
00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:29.160
Hmm.
00:26:29.261 --> 00:26:29.442
Yeah.
00:26:29.491 --> 00:26:34.315
So mentioned quotes a lot from other literature.
00:26:34.375 --> 00:26:38.525
She quotes a lot stuff CFC when she goes to meet, Ms.
00:26:38.525 --> 00:26:46.701
Reader for the first time and does the job interview, and then she's really embarrassed to have picked Dostoevsky as her favorite author.
00:26:47.241 --> 00:26:47.511
And Ms.
00:26:47.511 --> 00:26:51.092
Reader's like, well, everybody picked Shakespeare or, Jane Eyre.
00:26:52.511 --> 00:26:58.961
So I'm wondering, was there any particular significance to some of the works that you chose to, to quote?
00:26:59.031 --> 00:27:01.821
It was a lot of classics for the most part.
00:27:02.241 --> 00:27:02.511
Oh.
00:27:02.541 --> 00:27:05.821
One of my favorite books was, good morning, midnight by Jean.
00:27:07.017 --> 00:27:10.886
And it is a book about a woman down and out in Paris.
00:27:10.946 --> 00:27:21.096
And I absolutely love it because all books, including mine, tend to glamorize Paris and only point out the beauty of Paris.
00:27:21.156 --> 00:27:24.576
And it really talks about the isolation or alcoholism.
00:27:24.787 --> 00:27:33.287
You know, we always talk about champagne and line, but we never talk about the darker side of addiction or drunkenness, , or depression.
00:27:33.386 --> 00:27:38.517
, so this book is beautifully written, , but it shows a woman alone with not a lot of money.
00:27:38.936 --> 00:27:41.156
And I asked him, do you love it?
00:27:41.307 --> 00:27:42.086
I absolutely love it.
00:27:42.086 --> 00:27:45.207
So the books that I chose are books that are really dear to my heart.
00:27:45.297 --> 00:27:46.227
, So let's switch gears.
00:27:46.257 --> 00:27:49.646
Let's switch back to talking a little bit about your story.
00:27:49.846 --> 00:27:53.057
What was the dark side of being in Paris for you?
00:27:53.156 --> 00:28:03.497
, during while, since you've been here since the late nineties, and what are some of the major challenges that sort of de glamorized living in Paris for you?
00:28:04.096 --> 00:28:14.727
Well, I I'm really had a hard time meeting people and making friends because like I said, I was an assistant and so people thought, oh, well, she's only going to be a year.
00:28:14.896 --> 00:28:16.457
Why bother getting to know her?
00:28:16.797 --> 00:28:20.366
, I think a lot of Persians leave town on the weekends and during holidays.
00:28:20.366 --> 00:28:25.557
So maybe in other places where you could meet up for a coffee on the weekend, , people are gone a lot.
00:28:26.017 --> 00:28:28.297
, I just really found it challenging.
00:28:28.406 --> 00:28:31.527
, before I, it took me a long time to find friends.
00:28:32.118 --> 00:28:34.759
And to find people kind of like-minded people.
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:40.189
And I think it was really surprising because just as you said earlier, we think of Paris is maybe the city of literature.
00:28:40.325 --> 00:28:46.924
, and so many people do read and write, but I, I just really struggled for probably six years.
00:28:46.991 --> 00:28:47.352
Yeah.
00:28:47.525 --> 00:28:47.884
Yeah.
00:28:48.244 --> 00:28:51.904
And how did you sort of break into starting to make those friends?
00:28:51.934 --> 00:29:01.694
And did you make, you made some friends that were French and then you made some friends in the ex-pat community and the Americans, community, Americans and France community.
00:29:02.125 --> 00:29:04.174
, and how did you go about that?
00:29:04.332 --> 00:29:13.249
Well, I think what really helped us, me having my own writing group in the upstairs library, , That really got me meeting other people.
00:29:13.278 --> 00:29:18.078
And so there were French people and international people and English speakers in the group.
00:29:18.128 --> 00:29:22.328
, so it was little bit everyone and that's really, I think what, what helped.
00:29:22.419 --> 00:29:26.138
And then I finally got a writing group that, , I was in sync with.
00:29:26.239 --> 00:29:33.338
And that's important too, because when you're a writer, you, and you're just spending a lot of time and investing in but other people are, are writing.
00:29:33.378 --> 00:29:34.989
You want to enjoy that.
00:29:35.288 --> 00:29:39.489
You want to enjoy their, their musings and their, and their chapters.
00:29:40.028 --> 00:29:40.419
Yeah.
00:29:40.538 --> 00:29:47.568
, and so tell me about your, so your first book, Moonlight in Odessa was released in 2009, I believe.
00:29:47.838 --> 00:29:48.078
Yes.
00:29:48.318 --> 00:29:52.333
So tell me about the process of, of writing that and how did you go about.
00:29:52.345 --> 00:29:53.484
Getting it published.
00:29:53.605 --> 00:29:59.031
I have not been able to, for curious, it's out of print Simon and Schuster bought the rights.
00:29:59.031 --> 00:30:04.041
And so it'll come out probably in 20, 20, 24, maybe.
00:30:04.642 --> 00:30:09.231
, I wrote the book, it's a, it's a single narrator first person.
00:30:09.261 --> 00:30:11.751
And so it took me about two years to write.
00:30:11.888 --> 00:30:16.028
, it's about, it's about the booming business of email order brides.
00:30:16.509 --> 00:30:22.449
And I lived in Odessa Ukraine for two years and I couldn't really go back.
00:30:22.689 --> 00:30:34.398
, because it, , for example, as a teacher, I earned $25 a month working full time, and my rent was a hundred dollars a month just to give you an idea of what the economy was at the time.
00:30:35.028 --> 00:30:37.608
And a lot of times teachers did not get paid on time.
00:30:37.608 --> 00:30:41.298
We got paid a month or two late, so it was very challenging.
00:30:41.388 --> 00:30:43.068
And so you can see why.
00:30:43.196 --> 00:30:50.886
People who could leave, , would, would want to, not because they didn't love their country, but just because of the economic situation.
00:30:51.277 --> 00:30:56.487
So, , I went to the Geneva writer's conference and that's where I found my first agent.
00:30:57.027 --> 00:31:00.277
And that was really an excellent, , writing conference.
00:31:00.307 --> 00:31:01.807
There's something for everyone there.
00:31:01.807 --> 00:31:10.059
It's a small conference and, they get really great speakers and, it's a weekend and I, I, it's not, it's not very expensive.
00:31:10.059 --> 00:31:18.364
So I highly, highly recommended it's every other year that you need for writers' conference also has monthly seminars, which are our greatest well, cool.
00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:18.660
Yeah.
00:31:18.660 --> 00:31:31.646
And I was thinking so much, , as I was reading about the dilemma of the different characters, I, you know, of course I was reading this book, , the Paris library right around the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine and.
00:31:32.076 --> 00:31:34.836
I didn't realize at the time that your other book was about Ukraine.
00:31:35.237 --> 00:31:51.346
, but I was thinking about that situation because you see the moral dilemmas of the people who, , sort of go and try to get along with the Germans and the people who, sort of take advantage in certain ways or who are taken advantage of by the fact that they get something from it.
00:31:51.346 --> 00:31:54.977
They get extra rations, they get a little bit of safety.
00:31:55.217 --> 00:32:05.259
And so I think, your, the other book about war brides, there's also a lot of parallels with, what can you trade to, to get that safety in a time of war?
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:07.549
And there were a lot of parallels with the current events.
00:32:07.676 --> 00:32:14.196
Well, there's definitely, especially with the cold war, the Lily section set in the cold war, where there is this fear.
00:32:15.231 --> 00:32:17.541
Of Russia and what Russia is capable of.
00:32:17.541 --> 00:32:20.571
And now we're seeing exactly what they're capable of.
00:32:20.571 --> 00:32:28.919
So it's, it's, it's really, it's really terrible and horrifying to, to see Russia attack Ukraine like this.
00:32:29.035 --> 00:32:30.684
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:32:30.724 --> 00:32:31.234
For sure.
00:32:31.894 --> 00:32:32.194
, yeah.
00:32:32.194 --> 00:32:36.904
And there there's the added dilemma of some of the women, , in the story again, no spoilers.
00:32:39.575 --> 00:32:42.065
I'm trying to think of how I'm wording this.
00:32:42.065 --> 00:32:44.194
So I don't give anything away about any of the characters.
00:32:44.575 --> 00:32:45.484
It's not easy.
00:32:45.595 --> 00:32:47.464
It's really not easy, right?
00:32:47.464 --> 00:32:47.734
Yeah.
00:32:47.765 --> 00:33:03.489
But I mean, there are so many moral dilemmas beyond just am I on the side of, and this comes back to the gray area stuff we were talking about earlier, you know, are we on the side of the good guys or the bad guys, and really in reality that, or in the story, it's much more.
00:33:03.903 --> 00:33:05.163
It's much less black and white.
00:33:05.579 --> 00:33:10.673
, so what have you been doing aside from writing these amazing novels?
00:33:10.673 --> 00:33:12.624
Do you have other projects that you're working on?
00:33:12.673 --> 00:33:15.913
, what are some of your other things that you do, , in life?
00:33:16.247 --> 00:33:20.297
Well, one of the things I enjoy doing is going to the red, , wheelbarrow bookshop.
00:33:20.477 --> 00:33:22.636
It's one of my favorite places in Paris.
00:33:22.727 --> 00:33:29.527
And so for people who are thinking of coming to Paris or who live here already, it's, , it's my favorite place in Paris.
00:33:29.527 --> 00:33:32.287
So I really enjoy spending time there.
00:33:32.836 --> 00:33:40.567
, I'm working on another novel right now and still doing the promotion for the Paris library, which is, , on the New York times bestseller list for paperback.
00:33:40.576 --> 00:33:42.247
So that's really nice to see.
00:33:42.344 --> 00:33:44.324
, so those are kind of some of the things that are keeping me here.
00:33:45.493 --> 00:33:47.144
I did go to the red wheel barrel.
00:33:47.173 --> 00:33:51.253
Cause I've seen on your Instagram that you have been, you know, that you spend a lot of time there.
00:33:51.253 --> 00:33:55.814
So I went and I asked Penelope is the owner and she is quite lovely.
00:33:55.814 --> 00:33:58.574
And I asked her, I just finished the Paris library.
00:33:58.574 --> 00:33:59.653
What should I read next?
00:34:02.743 --> 00:34:05.717
So we settled on, , the song of the Kellys.
00:34:06.196 --> 00:34:06.676
Okay.
00:34:07.426 --> 00:34:10.637
I bought that and it was, it was very good.
00:34:10.677 --> 00:34:11.577
It was very male.
00:34:13.527 --> 00:34:14.277
It's all about men.
00:34:14.306 --> 00:34:15.146
It's all about men.
00:34:15.146 --> 00:34:16.556
It's that Madeline Miller.
00:34:16.777 --> 00:34:17.467
, Madeline Miller.
00:34:17.467 --> 00:34:17.797
Yes.
00:34:19.907 --> 00:34:21.217
I went back.
00:34:21.246 --> 00:34:22.226
She didn't have Circe.
00:34:22.387 --> 00:34:25.056
That was the one that I was when I looked for.
00:34:25.567 --> 00:34:34.309
, so then I went to Smith and son and got , so I'm going to read that next, but yes, the song of Achilles was quite good, but it was.
00:34:34.836 --> 00:34:36.606
You know, it was all men in all wars.
00:34:36.606 --> 00:34:43.467
So, the, the sort of the Iliad fanfiction, and you go upstairs to the, to the tea room.
00:34:43.467 --> 00:34:44.097
How is it?
00:34:44.606 --> 00:34:47.157
I did not owe to the in Smith.
00:34:49.106 --> 00:34:49.947
I haven't been there yet.
00:34:50.367 --> 00:34:52.166
I haven't been back to the tea room.
00:34:52.166 --> 00:34:58.887
I went before, while back when it was still w H Smith, I went to the tea room once or twice.
00:34:59.027 --> 00:35:00.077
, I guess it's been completely.
00:35:01.577 --> 00:35:02.086
Yeah.
00:35:02.117 --> 00:35:02.416
Yeah.
00:35:02.416 --> 00:35:03.916
It's quite, it's quite nice.
00:35:03.967 --> 00:35:07.717
, I do like Smith and son a lot and they have Cadbury chocolate.
00:35:11.670 --> 00:35:12.900
It does, it does.
00:35:15.789 --> 00:35:31.119
That's why I went and the past and the past two years, because of COVID I was not able to get, , Cadbury or well, in 2020, because of COVID in 2021 because of Brexit, those many eggs.
00:35:31.510 --> 00:35:32.230
Yeah.
00:35:32.409 --> 00:35:32.920
Yeah.
00:35:33.403 --> 00:35:36.373
, so what are some of your favorite places to visit in Paris?
00:35:36.403 --> 00:35:41.023
And do you have any places that you go to right in public or do you mostly write at home?
00:35:41.454 --> 00:35:50.646
I've I kind of stopped writing in public because so many places have really loud music or TVs, but I find myself really missing it.
00:35:50.677 --> 00:35:59.164
I was in a cafe just to get something to go the other day and I realized how much I just miss sitting down in a place that wasn't my, my home office.
00:35:59.583 --> 00:36:06.103
And, , so maybe I'll get back into the habit again, a little bit of,, going out in the American library.
00:36:09.043 --> 00:36:10.364
I started doing that actually.
00:36:10.364 --> 00:36:14.023
I had never, I hadn't joined the American library.
00:36:14.074 --> 00:36:15.273
, I had been to a couple of them.
00:36:16.304 --> 00:36:22.003
, but I actually joined during COVID because libraries were open, but cafes were closed.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:26.989
So it's far from me, unfortunately, I'm on the complete other side of Paris.
00:36:27.860 --> 00:36:29.150
I'm the same way as so far.
00:36:29.150 --> 00:36:32.090
And it's in a, it's actually in a black hole of transportation.
00:36:32.210 --> 00:36:33.626
, so no, I was same way.
00:36:34.130 --> 00:36:34.460
Yeah.
00:36:34.489 --> 00:36:35.659
But it was, it was good.
00:36:35.690 --> 00:36:43.369
I did go there like once a week during, during yeah.
00:36:43.369 --> 00:36:45.500
Because otherwise I just wouldn't leave the house.
00:36:46.697 --> 00:36:46.876
yeah.
00:36:46.876 --> 00:36:49.487
What are some of your other projects besides, besides writing?
00:36:49.487 --> 00:36:51.586
Like what do you do in your day to day?
00:36:51.813 --> 00:36:55.293
, life, , you have a company at the bookstore.
00:36:56.643 --> 00:37:00.844
The company is just kind of to deal with the T to deal with the writing.
00:37:00.923 --> 00:37:11.494
, and, , the book was translated into 36 different languages, which was really nice and it's very exciting to see the different covers of, of each edition.
00:37:11.594 --> 00:37:16.974
, just to see what each, , international,, uh, publisher decides to do, , with the, with the different cover.
00:37:17.003 --> 00:37:28.594
So that's been really a lot of fun to see, , I'm working on a book now set in world war one, and it's another American librarian in France, and she works really close to the front near the trenches.
00:37:28.983 --> 00:37:31.773
And she's really been a lot of fun too.
00:37:32.264 --> 00:37:33.034
So that's what I'm doing.
00:37:33.570 --> 00:37:33.809
Yeah.
00:37:33.914 --> 00:37:36.934
And what was the, what was the French, , title of the book?
00:37:36.934 --> 00:37:58.710
Cause I thought you posted a picture on Instagram as well, and I was surprised by, yeah, well, I think that Paris library, the title works because Paris sells and people who love books, generally love libraries, but, , in French, , Paris doesn't necessarily sell because a lot of people in France think of Paris as pollution and traffic, and aren't necessarily keen to come here.
00:37:59.369 --> 00:38:06.750
And, , so in French it's been swath so a thirst for books and for freedom.
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:15.929
And I wasn't sure about that title, but the book came out during COVID and we really did have a thirst for freedom and for books and bookstores.
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:18.489
And, , so it was really perfect.
00:38:18.958 --> 00:38:19.318
Right.
00:38:19.318 --> 00:38:21.778
Well, and there were some parallels in, in COVID too.
00:38:21.778 --> 00:38:27.719
Now that, now that you mentioned it, because libraries and bookstores were all closed during the first wave.
00:38:28.108 --> 00:38:32.789
And then I think in the second wave bookstores were reclassified as being essential.
00:38:33.974 --> 00:38:36.405
So I think so it's all a, it's all a blur now.
00:38:36.405 --> 00:38:40.425
It seemed fixed at the time, but it seems like a blur.
00:38:40.485 --> 00:38:41.824
Yes, exactly.
00:38:42.224 --> 00:39:03.135
And I, and I'm sure you could do click and collect at the American library and that, you know, like, Odile delivering books to the professor, you had the, the courageous librarians battling COVID to deliver click and collect book order.
00:39:03.554 --> 00:39:03.795
Yes.
00:39:03.795 --> 00:39:04.574
They really were brave.
00:39:04.574 --> 00:39:09.855
And I asked him, they said that they have the same amount of people checking out books during COVID as during normal times.
00:39:09.855 --> 00:39:10.514
So people read.
00:39:11.036 --> 00:39:15.567
, really, even if they couldn't go physically in the library, they do a lot of click and collect.
00:39:15.567 --> 00:39:16.586
So that was really nice.
00:39:16.976 --> 00:39:20.726
Oh yeah, that's good to, that's good to know because it's, it's so great.
00:39:20.726 --> 00:39:39.976
And there were, so there was one part in the book and I didn't find the passage that I wanted to, , read, but you say something that I've also often observed about how, you know, Americans have kind of colonized Paris in this way that, you know, there's the American library and the American church and the American cathedral and all of these different, , American places.
00:39:39.976 --> 00:39:45.960
And, and I think that it's really interesting to see, how that is even more true.
00:39:46.590 --> 00:39:53.789
Well, it's interesting because when I was doing the research, I read a year's worth of the Paris edition of the New York Herald.
00:39:54.090 --> 00:40:01.739
And they literally had a column in the New York count, the American colony, and they had another column, the British colony.
00:40:02.134 --> 00:40:11.403
So, and it would be, , w w mini K Oppenheimer from Chicago will be staying at the Bristol from this date to this date.
00:40:11.403 --> 00:40:19.643
She will be arriving on this boat or Paul, Jay, , , book, my stor,, we'll be staying at in Fremont.
00:40:19.969 --> 00:40:24.547
, so, oh, so kind of like, the social calling card for exactly.
00:40:24.547 --> 00:40:33.786
So living people know who would be in town when, and so, but it was the American colony and then the British colonies, the Maharajah will be here from this date to this date.
00:40:33.786 --> 00:40:35.407
So it was really interesting.
00:40:35.447 --> 00:40:35.956
Yeah.
00:40:36.056 --> 00:40:36.956
Oh, that's so funny.
00:40:38.313 --> 00:40:39.574
And now we have that on Facebook.
00:40:42.329 --> 00:40:44.969
Let me see if there are any other questions that I haven't asked you yet.
00:40:45.353 --> 00:40:52.056
, Is there anything else that you want to in Paris or about your work as an author?
00:40:53.016 --> 00:40:59.166
I know last time you asked such great questions and we talked a little bit about the challenges and pleasures of living in France.
00:40:59.166 --> 00:41:06.456
So I would just encourage people who are thinking about it to, , maybe do like, I didn't say I'll do it for a year and see how it goes.
00:41:06.606 --> 00:41:07.717
Yeah, sure.
00:41:07.813 --> 00:41:14.023
, what are some of your favorite, like when people come to visit Paris, what are some of your favorite places to bring them?
00:41:14.150 --> 00:41:15.590
I'm kind of rusty.
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:22.250
, because I just haven't done anything for so long because of COVID but, , I think one of the things is just walking in the city.
00:41:22.250 --> 00:41:23.150
It's so beautiful.
00:41:23.570 --> 00:41:31.510
And then when you're tired, , get on one of the, one of the boats, the bathroom, which everyone says, oh, it's so touristy, but it's also so beautiful and relaxed.
00:41:32.324 --> 00:41:36.284
Yeah, it's really nice to just sit there and let the city, the city flow by.
00:41:36.375 --> 00:41:38.355
I think it's really, it's really beautiful.
00:41:38.625 --> 00:41:45.215
I really love, , I really loved the red wheelbarrow and just choosing a book and then go walking in the Luxembourg garden.
00:41:45.244 --> 00:41:48.485
, maybe having a, , coffee in that, in that neighborhood.
00:41:48.485 --> 00:41:51.275
It's just, that's kind of my, the three things I love to do.
00:41:51.327 --> 00:41:51.831
Sure.
00:41:51.992 --> 00:41:54.001
, where do you like to go for restaurants?
00:41:54.032 --> 00:41:56.192
What's your favorite French meal when you.
00:41:56.659 --> 00:42:01.460
Go out to eat and what they're going to order at the boulangerie again then, because of COVID.
00:42:01.460 --> 00:42:03.530
I w we just don't go out that much.
00:42:03.860 --> 00:42:14.909
I usually, if I go have anything it's usually at Zendo, , a Japanese restaurant in my neighborhood, , because it's just such a nice family and that's more, , it's just very, very convenient.
00:42:14.909 --> 00:42:16.570
And, , I really don't go out that much.
00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:19.030
Just I'm very sorry.
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:20.320
That's all right.
00:42:20.900 --> 00:42:26.847
, is there any way that you feel like you've sort of become very French from living here?
00:42:27.257 --> 00:42:30.016
I don't, I don't really feel French at all.
00:42:30.067 --> 00:42:41.126
, I've never taken French nationality, but I think when I go to the states and I see things like people going into grocery stores and not, , taking recyclable bags with them, it makes me really sad to see the way.
00:42:41.961 --> 00:42:48.731
So I don't necessarily feel French here, but I do appreciate, , I do appreciate the recycling efforts.
00:42:48.731 --> 00:42:53.351
I really appreciate the way that people really, , on a pretty big scale.
00:42:53.351 --> 00:42:56.141
I mean, getting rid of plastic bags, that was pretty cute.
00:42:56.681 --> 00:43:02.032
, and it's just, it's one of, it's an example of a small effort that everyone can make, , to make a big difference.
00:43:02.422 --> 00:43:05.961
So I, I guess I feel in that way, it's really, it's really cool.
00:43:06.202 --> 00:43:12.541
I see, Kim's asked a question about,, advice for anyone moving to Paris to fulfill their dream of being a writer.
00:43:12.824 --> 00:43:22.125
, I think if you want to move to Paris, you actually have to write, I know a lot of people who moved to Paris to write and they liked the lifestyle, but they never right.
00:43:22.335 --> 00:43:28.094
And so you really have to be rigorous with yourself because it's so easy to go anywhere.
00:43:28.155 --> 00:43:30.074
You know, it's such an interesting, beautiful city.
00:43:30.074 --> 00:43:31.335
It's so easy to get sick.
00:43:32.204 --> 00:43:48.605
So you really have to be reversed with yourself and, , maybe find a writing group or take a class, something that kind of keeps you on task because it's, it's very, it's easier to be a writer in Montana where there's not in rural Montana where there's not much to do in Paris where there's so much to do.
00:43:48.605 --> 00:43:51.034
And there's so many interesting things.
00:43:51.144 --> 00:43:53.635
, it it's, it's easy to get sidetracked.
00:43:53.965 --> 00:43:54.264
Yeah.
00:43:54.324 --> 00:43:57.385
And you do actually have to write to be a writer as I've learned.
00:43:57.985 --> 00:43:58.494
So, yeah.
00:43:58.494 --> 00:44:07.282
So I would just say really set reasonable goals for yourself,, reasonable goals for yourself and, and make sure you meet those goals.
00:44:07.942 --> 00:44:08.242
Yeah.
00:44:08.661 --> 00:44:16.192
And then do you have any particular places that people can look for writing group or any recommendations on how to find one that resonates with them?
00:44:16.822 --> 00:44:27.831
I've always seen, take a writing class and then find the people whose work, you enjoy, find the people whose feedback you appreciate and then break off and become your own group.
00:44:27.885 --> 00:44:28.394
Cool.
00:44:28.739 --> 00:44:37.461
, is there anything that you still really don't like after living here for so long, like something that really annoys you about France differently?
00:44:37.778 --> 00:44:39.068
I don't, I mean, I don't think so.
00:44:39.068 --> 00:44:48.259
One of the small, not about France, but I will say we have a little library in my neighborhood and, , the next, the very next day, someone ripped the door off.
00:44:48.315 --> 00:44:53.945
And so, , there is, I think there's a lot of casual vandalism and things like that here.
00:44:54.304 --> 00:45:00.184
And it's very hard to talk about it because when you look on people's Instagram feed, it's only beautiful things.
00:45:00.244 --> 00:45:04.422
And so it's very hard to talk about the problems here, , or the.
00:45:05.211 --> 00:45:17.389
Situations here sometimes just because they aren't visible to people because, mostly people want to focus on the croissants and the coffee and the museums and the architecture.
00:45:17.768 --> 00:45:18.728
myself included.
00:45:18.728 --> 00:45:19.869
I wrote a book about Paris.
00:45:19.898 --> 00:45:23.048
It's a very beautiful rosy image of Paris for the most part.
00:45:23.349 --> 00:45:35.358
So, , I think that's what's, if I were going to say something that's like maybe a downside it's that it's that it's, you're not really allowed to talk about the don't go well, yeah.
00:45:35.358 --> 00:45:39.518
I mean, I think there's a growing movement on social media, like, set cash Pappy.
00:45:39.528 --> 00:45:49.994
And the fact that, there's been a lot of vandalism, a lot of places where, you know, little zones where, there are drug users or, , you know, places that aren't safe.
00:45:50.025 --> 00:45:53.144
And, and I think there's there starting to be an awareness that.
00:45:53.583 --> 00:45:59.086
it's not always the perfect city, but there are also areas that you don't necessarily see as a tourist.
00:45:59.536 --> 00:46:00.467
You exactly.
00:46:00.586 --> 00:46:13.856
If you don't see until you're living here, , is there any way when you, or anything that when you go back to Montana, you just feel kind of out of place and like very French?
00:46:14.657 --> 00:46:20.447
No, I feel really lucky that I just kind of get into a rhythm there or get into a rhythm here.
00:46:20.507 --> 00:46:25.637
And so I feel at home in both places, I feel really lucky about that.
00:46:25.737 --> 00:46:26.126
Cool.
00:46:26.373 --> 00:46:27.784
And then last question.
00:46:27.833 --> 00:46:33.329
What advice would you have for somebody thinking about, moving to France generally, not even necessarily to be a writer.
00:46:35.349 --> 00:46:43.054
Coming for six months, maybe rent an apartment for six months and just get a feel of the place and, and see what you think.
00:46:43.114 --> 00:46:51.173
And then, , if you enjoy that, just maybe go for another six months or another six months or another six months, spoiler alert.
00:46:51.173 --> 00:46:54.054
That's a little bit hard from the visa perspective to do it that way.
00:46:57.534 --> 00:47:03.143
That might be what you want to do from the emotional perspective, but from the visa perspective, no, it's, it's true.
00:47:03.143 --> 00:47:03.653
And it's true.
00:47:03.653 --> 00:47:04.313
I had a visa.
00:47:04.313 --> 00:47:05.514
I had a year and a year visa.
00:47:05.514 --> 00:47:10.143
I had a, , I think I started working and it was a seven month contract and then it was a nine month contract.
00:47:10.384 --> 00:47:11.463
So it is, it's true.
00:47:11.463 --> 00:47:12.423
It's very hard.
00:47:12.503 --> 00:47:18.853
, it's very hard to, , for getting those, forgetting those visas and the, and the paperwork is, is really challenging.
00:47:19.063 --> 00:47:21.313
So I would just say, don't be discouraged by the paperwork.
00:47:21.344 --> 00:47:27.313
It's just something everyone has to go through, but don't, don't be discouraged or don't worry about it.
00:47:27.500 --> 00:47:32.989
I spent a lot of time worrying about it and I wish I could take back that emotional energy that I spent worrying.
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:33.599
Yeah.
00:47:33.630 --> 00:47:33.900
Yeah.
00:47:33.929 --> 00:47:37.797
Because really it'll all get taken care of eventually.
00:47:38.614 --> 00:47:39.034
All right.
00:47:39.034 --> 00:47:42.304
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
00:47:42.333 --> 00:47:47.403
It was lovely to talk to you and to learn more about the book and about you.
00:47:47.494 --> 00:47:54.333
, and yeah, we will be sharing obviously links for where people can buy the book and we'll look forward to hearing about the next one.
00:47:54.396 --> 00:47:59.467
Oh, well, thank you so much for having me in for such a deep reading of the book and your insightful questions.
00:47:59.467 --> 00:48:00.246
I appreciate it.
00:48:00.606 --> 00:48:01.206
All right.
00:48:01.867 --> 00:48:02.467
Take care.
00:48:02.556 --> 00:48:02.887
Thank you.
00:48:02.887 --> 00:48:03.996
Bye-bye bye.
00:48:09.451 --> 00:48:13.880
Thanks for listening to this episode of Profiles in Franceformation with Allison Grant Lounes.
00:48:14.221 --> 00:48:17.851
If you liked this episode, please like subscribe and share on social media.
00:48:18.541 --> 00:48:20.340
I'll see you next time for a new episode.
00:48:20.340 --> 00:48:23.701
And in the meantime, I've hope we've inspired you today to pursue your dreams.
00:48:23.731 --> 00:48:30.811
No matter how big or small, remember the way you bring your own dreams into reality is by believing in yourself and taking small steps towards your.
00:48:31.726 --> 00:48:33.286
Start today, start now.
00:48:33.615 --> 00:48:34.335
And at the end too,
